From nobody Wed Jan 2 03:15:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FA212872C; Wed, 2 Jan 2019 03:15:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <154642772135.32579.16418625655339467402@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2019 03:15:21 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-01.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2019 11:15:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Location Source Parameter for the SIP Geolocation Header Field Authors : James Winterbottom Roland Jesske Bruno Chatras Andrew Hutton Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-01.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2019-01-02 Abstract: There are some circumstances where a geolocation header field may contain more than one location value. Knowing the identity of the node adding the location value allows the recipient more freedom in selecting the value to look at first rather than relying solely on the order of the location values. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jan 2 09:44:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02700130934 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2019 09:44:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=standardstrack.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fjcKM_5-avVg for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2019 09:44:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from biz221.inmotionhosting.com (biz221.inmotionhosting.com [198.46.93.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66761130EBB for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2019 09:44:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=standardstrack.com; s=default; h=References:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Date:Subject: Mime-Version:Content-Type:Message-Id:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=m0oFwI00iTwk/MGKeJXUcb3Q5/EU67iC2QZdlZVF/rc=; b=X5gLpcWgqzNRvyimpildRXbCt yd/+TJHjK9QENhQt9jHWk4jW/tO7chjrP6hqrgfpGWGiD5ZtzLOGwXxPqnYLqKttIF1U+/2nBd4TY XdlNLqP85gnd4+b2jL8u1n7E8TORm+NMsFwA6kxoaUC2uCHzcaL6Muy26579cTJsQrPvs=; Received: from [174.204.22.174] (port=2612 helo=[192.168.43.104]) by biz221.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gekZ5-009Cla-KP; Wed, 02 Jan 2019 09:44:29 -0800 From: Eric Burger Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_07AE83ED-A77F-4B31-8551-36C1702FB02B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 12:44:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" To: "Asveren, Tolga" References: <154603356727.21662.4937819323227360735@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz221.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: eburger+standardstrack.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Authenticated-Sender: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: eburger@standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-02.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2019 17:44:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_07AE83ED-A77F-4B31-8551-36C1702FB02B Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CFE75E8F-3B37-4957-8928-A43F6C5AA744" --Apple-Mail=_CFE75E8F-3B37-4957-8928-A43F6C5AA744 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Tolga - As always, thanks for your review! Thoughts inline. > On Dec 30, 2018, at 9:26 AM, Asveren, Tolga wrote: >=20 > Looks good to me with a few comments: >=20 > i- > 1. Introduction >=20 > As > described below, we need a distinct indicator to differentiate > between a user rejection and an intermediary's rejection of a call. > In some jurisdictions, calls, even if unwanted by the user, may not > be blocked unless there is an explicit user request. > [TOLGA] I agree with the intend but the wording could be improved IMHO = to clarify that 607 is not an =E2=80=9Cexplicit user request=E2=80=9D. = Maybe by just adding =E2=80=9Cby other means=E2=80=9D to the end of the = last sentence? 607 is explicit user request, vs. 608 which is only a guess as to the = user=E2=80=99s desire. In many jurisdictions, carriers have an = obligation to complete (not block) calls, unless they are obviously = illegal or the user explicitly requests blocking the call. What if we put this into active voice? This document describes a new SIP response code, 608, which allows = calling parties to learn an intermediary rejected their call. As = described below, we need a distinct indicator to differentiate between a = user rejection and an intermediary's rejection of a call. In some = jurisdictions, an intermediary can only block calls calls if there is an = explicit user request. By giving legitimate callers the ability to = correct blocks in error, some jurisdictions may decide to allow for = intermediaries to block calls with implicit user request. > Specifically, this code informs the UAC an > intermediary blocked the call and provide a redress mechanism, > specifically how to contact the operator of the intermediary. > [TOLGA] Couldn=E2=80=99t blocking be done also by the terminating SP = and 608 still would be applicable AFAICS. =E2=80=9CIntermediary=E2=80=9D = may cause confusion. It could be an idea to replace it with =E2=80=9Can = operator on the call path including intermediary operators=E2=80=9D. > However, things get more complicated if an intermediary, such as a > third-party provider of call management services that classify = calls > based on the relative likelihood the call is unwanted, = misidentifies > the call as unwanted. > [TOLGA] Similar comment as the previous one. I was thinking =E2=80=98intermediary=E2=80=99 in the SIP sense. I was = struggling what to call it. Technically, it=E2=80=99s just the UAS, = because that=E2=80=99s where the INVITE terminates. However, that is too = easy to confuse with the UAS of the INVITE target. I didn=E2=80=99t want = to use =E2=80=98Proxy=E2=80=99 or B2BUA, because who knows if that=E2=80=99= s what it will be. Do you (or anyone else) have a better term? > ii- > 3.3. UAC Operation > A UAC conforming to this specification MUST include the sip.608 > feature capability tag in the INVITE request. > [TOLGA]What about other requests? > What about a registering end point indicating support in REGISTER = Contact? I think the idea is that it still adds sip.608 to the request = as well. It could be good to add a clarification about this case. > I think sip.608 means support for jCard as well. That IMHO is a taller = order than just supporting a new response code. IMHO it could be good = that always =E2=80=9CYour calling number is blocked. Please contact the = blocking organization based on the following information. Please contact = your Originating SP if you don=E2=80=99t see any additional = information=E2=80=9D is displayed on the UAC upon receipt of 608. Well=E2=80=A6 If you write code to explicitly deal with sip.608, as = opposed to just generically handling 6xx), you get to support a JWT = encoding of a jCard, including all the PKI support that implies. I.e., = the jCard part is the least of your worries. Saying =E2=80=9Ccontact = your Originating SP=E2=80=9D will be as useful as =E2=80=9CConfigure = your STUN server [to electrocute yourself].=E2=80=9D I.e., that will be = meaningless information to Joe Average User. That=E2=80=99s also why I = didn=E2=80=99t bother to include a multipart/alternate with a text = version of the jCard. Either you understand sip.608 or you don=E2=80=99t. Am I being too strict here? > iii- > 3.4. Legacy Interoperation > [TOLGA] A malicious UAC may drain Operator announcement resources by = placing many calls with a blocked calling-Id and not signaling sip.608. = This can be remedied by playing announcement only once for each blocked = calling-Id, or for every nth call, or only when announcement resources = are idle. Granted, this could cause some hiccups if the same calling-Id = is used by many UACs but still worth mentioning IMHO. I like the idea. If it is a legal caller, then it=E2=80=99s likely a = call center, and one announcement should be enough. If it is a spammer = reusing the same calling-id, then who cares if they don=E2=80=99t get = the message? >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Tolga >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Cross-posted to IP-NNI, NNI, and STIR lists; please keep any = discussion on the SIPCORE list] >=20 >=20 > What do we have here? This version is resistant to replay attacks. It = also lets us trace jCards, if we wish. >=20 > I think it=E2=80=99s done, but I=E2=80=99m sure there are glaring = holes that could be filled. >=20 > Please review. >=20 > Thanks, and Happy New Year. --Apple-Mail=_CFE75E8F-3B37-4957-8928-A43F6C5AA744 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Tolga - As always, thanks for your review!
Thoughts inline.

On = Dec 30, 2018, at 9:26 AM, Asveren, Tolga <tasveren@rbbn.com> = wrote:

Looks good to me = with a few comments:
 
i-
1. = Introduction
 
As
   described below, we need a distinct indicator to = differentiate
   between a user rejection and an intermediary's = rejection of a call.
   In some = jurisdictions, calls, even if unwanted by the user, may not
   be blocked unless there is an explicit user = request.
[TOLGA] I agree with the intend but the wording could be = improved IMHO to clarify that 607 is not an =E2=80=9Cexplicit user = request=E2=80=9D. Maybe by just adding =E2=80=9Cby other means=E2=80=9D = to the end of the last sentence?

607 is explicit user request, vs. 608 which is only a = guess as to the user=E2=80=99s desire. In many jurisdictions, carriers = have an obligation to complete (not block) calls, = unless they are obviously illegal or the user explicitly requests = blocking the call. 

What if we = put this into active voice?

This document describes a new SIP response code, 608, = which allows calling parties to learn an intermediary rejected their = call. As described below, we need a distinct indicator to differentiate = between a user rejection and an intermediary's rejection of a call. In = some jurisdictions, an intermediary can only block calls calls if there = is an explicit user request. By giving legitimate callers the ability to = correct blocks in error, some jurisdictions may decide to allow for = intermediaries to block calls with implicit user = request.


 Specifically, this code informs the UAC an
   intermediary blocked the call =
and provide a redress mechanism,
   specifically how to contact the =
operator of the intermediary.
[TOLGA] Couldn=E2=80=99t blocking be = done also by the terminating SP and 608 still would be applicable = AFAICS. =E2=80=9CIntermediary=E2=80=9D may cause confusion. It could be = an idea to replace it with =E2=80=9Can operator on the call path = including intermediary operators=E2=80=9D.
 However,= things get more complicated if an intermediary, such as = a
   =
third-party provider of call management services that classify calls
   =
based on the relative likelihood the call is unwanted, misidentifies
   the =
call as unwanted.
[TOLGA] Similar comment as the previous = one.

I was thinking = =E2=80=98intermediary=E2=80=99 in the SIP sense. I was struggling what = to call it. Technically, it=E2=80=99s just the UAS, because that=E2=80=99s= where the INVITE terminates. However, that is too easy to confuse with = the UAS of the INVITE target. I didn=E2=80=99t want to use =E2=80=98Proxy=E2= =80=99 or B2BUA, because who knows if that=E2=80=99s what it will = be.

Do you (or anyone else) have a = better term?


 ii-
3.3.  = UAC Operation
A UAC =
conforming to this specification MUST include the sip.608
   =
feature capability tag in the INVITE request.
[TOLGA]What= about other requests?
What about a registering end point indicating support in = REGISTER Contact? I think the idea is that it still adds sip.608 to the = request as well. It could be good to add a clarification about this = case.
I think = sip.608 means support for jCard as well. That IMHO is a taller order = than just supporting a new response code. IMHO it could be good that = always =E2=80=9CYour calling number is blocked. Please contact the = blocking organization based on the following information. Please contact = your Originating SP if you don=E2=80=99t see any additional = information=E2=80=9D is displayed on the UAC upon receipt of = 608.

Well=E2=80=A6 = If you write code to explicitly deal with sip.608, as opposed to just = generically handling 6xx), you get to support a JWT encoding of a jCard, = including all the PKI support that implies. I.e., the jCard part is the = least of your worries. Saying =E2=80=9Ccontact your Originating SP=E2=80=9D= will be as useful as =E2=80=9CConfigure your STUN server [to = electrocute yourself].=E2=80=9D I.e., that will be meaningless = information to Joe Average User. That=E2=80=99s also why I didn=E2=80=99t = bother to include a multipart/alternate with a text version of the = jCard. Either you understand sip.608 or you don=E2=80=99t.

Am I being too strict here?

 iii- 
3.4.  Legacy Interoperation
[TOLGA] A = malicious UAC may drain Operator announcement resources by placing many = calls with a blocked calling-Id and not signaling sip.608. This can be = remedied by playing announcement only once for each blocked calling-Id, = or for every nth call, or only when announcement resources are idle. = Granted, this could cause some hiccups if the same calling-Id is used by = many UACs but still worth mentioning = IMHO.

I like the idea. = If it is a legal caller, then it=E2=80=99s likely a call center, and one = announcement should be enough. If it is a spammer reusing the same = calling-id, then who cares if they don=E2=80=99t get the = message?

 
 
Thanks,
Tolga
 
 
 
[Cross-posted to IP-NNI, NNI, and STIR lists; please keep any = discussion on the SIPCORE list]
 
 
What do we have here? This version is resistant to replay = attacks. It also lets us trace jCards, if we wish.
 
I think it=E2=80=99s done, but I=E2=80=99m sure there are = glaring holes that could be filled.
 
Please review.
 
Thanks, and Happy New = Year.
= --Apple-Mail=_CFE75E8F-3B37-4957-8928-A43F6C5AA744-- --Apple-Mail=_07AE83ED-A77F-4B31-8551-36C1702FB02B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEfEc/N7T7IfiAuDEHDDCGh758rskFAlws+HUACgkQDDCGh758 rslE7w/9HrgFenPUY3ZKNJ3hCopR3lCkHqO8XX6cbxpllSFAo9rPfc4Vr3jAGvam vgG5dFEFNGU0hoG9k3whdVhqQYW/3BvzNAw0auqHRz3XUHw/vyfQ4lHv36mbJ7/L QUlggHcJS3nrOOhY1gcqD+8VahUsTbg7nyp84IfuCfHMXMKNf+1IH9oubda23xmh ZChYADtrJYPpj8ZM/g0LKvpDLueH4mcaiBjPQhO10AOu9DA5LLNlr0fiZHzNCPLo IaRQ748I1nDl2MlKTaKUwxEaB3+QZ9SpP3kR4pttTIglwXwqC+y0Foo/bWwGxBhw rqwYn2yFyu599FSreEt5sAbCGh+C94WL6CabO3rkOOzj4J/2OzDymPTFOR2pu9ip tUbdbgB+BY82X7Ek3rZIIRHkH1s4W48sfbK55qWZzxilUgSi/wQROHI9Zk1JeJY4 WzTUaFMhrnwuJkDYSKUC2p49eOGVqV+rSuoxFsS/SYZdGKdjCSAk0nA/OJh1gMOT auWQZ80+rTweMfizqZYGEJu5rG25I1Kp01tde3Xh5k0q8Inlgdcm4Q0yU2+x36e2 wGiTnGJAfHU7vrN/7ITKuamxQHu3JZWepogWxO9QaKoSAokCvC1WvxizZhesms7B hKrqPiuq1Y2N7bfGAgC6/J+DNxlb2p0Esz85/HJoDfl59SFNMsk= =crOk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_07AE83ED-A77F-4B31-8551-36C1702FB02B-- From nobody Wed Jan 2 11:25:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CA5130F01 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2019 11:25:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=rbbn.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) 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aW5nIHdlYiBsaW5rcz88bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cD48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1V UyI+UmVnYXJkcyw8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cD48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+ Q2hyaXN0ZXI8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+ DQo= --_000_6154956922FC47B39B5A3312A05A204Cericssoncom_-- From nobody Sun Jan 6 15:29:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3481B13108E; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 15:28:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: br@brianrosen.net, Brian Rosen , sipcore@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, sipcore-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:28:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 23:28:57 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rich version of this review at: https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D5114 DETAIL S 5.3.2. > request) addressed towards a SIP UA, if the Request-URI of the > request contains a pn-provider, a pn-prid and a pn-param (if required > for the specific PNS provider) SIP URI parameter, the proxy requests > a push notification towards the UA, using the PRID included in the > pn-prid SIP URI parameter and the PNS identified by the pn-provider > SIP URI parameter. Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like it leaves open the possibility for the PRID to not match the rest of the URI. E.g., suppose that a@example.com and b@example.com both register with the same proxy/registrar pair with PRIDa and PRIDb respectively. What stops the registrar from generating (or forwarding) a call to a@example.com, PRIDb? And what happens if that happens? S 5.3.2. > also present (and has not expired) in the REGISTER response, the > proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA, using normal SIP > procedures. If the contact of the REGISTER request does not match > the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, or if the contact > was not present in the REGISTER response, the proxy MUST reject the > SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. This can happen if the How does this happen? I.e., how does the the REGISTER get correlated with the SIP request to be forwarded in order to execute this requirement? S 6.1. > and be able to find and retrieve that information when it receives a > mid-dialog request. This section defines such mechanism. The UA and > proxy procedures in this section are applied in addition to the > generic procedures defined in this specification. > > 6.1. SIP UA Behavior This section needs some kind of diagram that explains what the mechanism is. I've read it a bunch of times, and I still don't understand it. S 6.2.1. > generated key as the value to the associated 2xx REGISTER response. > > The PURR value MUST be generated in such a way so that it cannot be > used to retrieve information about the user or associate it with > registrations. It can be generated e.g., by utilizing a > cryptographically secure random function. This seems to weak. I assume you also don't want it to be possible to determine that two PURRs correspond to the same user. Also who must be able to use it in this way. Presumably the proxy can? Why is this not a requirement for say PRID? S 13. > specification. Web push permits the sending of a push message > without a payload without encryption. > > 13. Security Considerations > > Different mechanisms exist for authenticating and authorizing devices You need to discuss the security implications of knowledge of the push parameters (principally PRID). What happens if an attacker learns htem? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This document is very badly in need of editorial work for readability. I would urge the responsible AD to make one. S 1. > used to wake such applications, nor will incoming network traffic > wake the application. Instead, one way to wake the application is by > using a Push Notification Service (PNS). Typically each operating > system uses a dedicated PNS. For example, Apple iOS devices use the > Apple Push Notification service (APNs) while Android devices use the > Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) service. What is a Push Notification Service? I mean, I know, but you need to say. S 1. > will request push notifications towards the UA. > > When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog or a stand- > alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy > determines that the UA needs to send a binding-refresh REGISTER > request, the proxy will request a push notification towards the UA, "request ... towards" is ungrammatical S 1. > |<---------------------| | > | | | > | SIP REGISTER (Push Resource ID) | > |===============================================>| > | | | SIP REGISTER > | | |============> These arrows don't seem to go anywhere. I think you need to label the registrar. S 4.1. > > NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP UA are outside the > scope of this document. > > When the UA receives a push notification, it MUST send a binding- > refresh REGISTER request, using normal SIP procedures. If there are This seems unnecessarily restrictive. Are we never going to want any other kind of push notification? S 4.1. > protocol is used, the SIP request might reach the UA before the > REGISTER response. > > NOTE: The lifetime of any NAT binding created by the REGISTER request > only needs to be long enough in order for the SIP request that > triggered the push notification to reach the UA. This general architectural point should be made further up. S 4.1. > [RFC3840] in each Contact header field URI of each REGISTER request. > Then, if the response to the REGISTER request contains a 'sip.pnsreg' > feature-capability indicator with an indicator value, the UA > refreshes the binding prior to the binding expires. The indicator > value indicates a minimum time (given in seconds), prior to the > binding expires when the UA MUST send the REGISTER request. Even if This sentence needs a rewrite. S 4.1. > Then, if the response to the REGISTER request contains a 'sip.pnsreg' > feature-capability indicator with an indicator value, the UA > refreshes the binding prior to the binding expires. The indicator > value indicates a minimum time (given in seconds), prior to the > binding expires when the UA MUST send the REGISTER request. Even if > the UA is able to to send REGISTER requests using a non-push "to to" Also, all UAs that are conformant to this specification are able to send REGISTERS via a non-push as the first register is sent that way. S 4.1. > capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-registration > REGISTER request when it receives a push notification (even if the UA > is able to use a non-push mechanism for sending re-registration > REGISTER requests), or when there are circumstances (e.g., if the UA > is assigned new contact parameters due to a network configuration > change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send regular REGISTERs S 4.1. > change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. > > NOTE: If the UA uses a non-push mechanism to wake and send a binding > refresh REGISTER request, such REGISTER request will update the > binding expiration timer, and the proxy does not need to request a > push notification towards the UA in order to wake the UA. The proxy This doesn't seem obviously correct. Why is this so? S 4.1. > REGISTER request. > > If the UA no longer wants to receive push notifications (requested by > the proxy), the UA MUST send a binding-refresh REGISTER request > without including the SIP URI parameters described above, or the UA > MUST remove the registration. This seems pretty hard to conform with, given that mobile applications are often just shut down with no warning. S 4.1. > document. > > For privacy and security reasons, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI > parameters defined in this document in non-REGISTER request, to > prevent the PNS information associated with the UA from reaching the > remote peer. For example, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI For non-SIP experts, why is this not an issue with REGISTER? S 5.2. > the registrar using some mechanism. Such mechanisms are outside the > scope of this document, but could be implemented e.g., using the > SIPregistration event package mechanism [RFC3680]. > > When the proxy receives an indication that the UA needs to send a > binding-refresh REGISTER request, the proxy requests a push You need to define what such an indication is. S 5.2. > scope of this document, but could be implemented e.g., using the > SIPregistration event package mechanism [RFC3680]. > > When the proxy receives an indication that the UA needs to send a > binding-refresh REGISTER request, the proxy requests a push > notification towards the UA. "requests...towards" again S 5.2. > If the UA has indicated, using the 'sip.pnsreg' media feature tag, > that it is able to wake using a non-push mechanism for sending > binding-refresh REGISTER requests, if the proxy does not receive a > REGISTER request prior to 120 seconds before the registration > expires, the proxy MAY request a push notification towards the UA, to > trigger the UA to send a REGISTER request. This paragraph needs to be rewritten in some way that is not so conditional dense. S 5.2. > UA expects to receive push notifications from the network. A proxy > will not request push notifications towards a UA that has not > provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter. > > If the proxy receives information that a registration has expired, > the proxy MUST NOT request further push notifications towards the UA. Again, how would it receive such information? S 5.3.1. > > 5.3. SIP Requests > > 5.3.1. REGISTER > > The procedures in this section apply when the SIP proxy receives a This section is incredibly hard to follow. Can you rewrite it with some sort of structure that reflects the logic of the proxy? S 5.3.1. > registrar too short, the proxy MUST NOT insert a Feature-Caps header > field with a 'sip.pns' feature-capability indicator in the response, > and the proxy MUST NOT request push notifications associated with the > registration. A registration expiration interval MUST be considered > too short if the interval is smaller than the time prior to > expiration that the proxy would request a push notification. The What does this text mean? S 5.3.2. > > If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is > able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER > request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification > towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and 2xx > response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the UA. Why not race these? S 6.1.1. > > 6.1. SIP UA Behavior > > 6.1.1. Initial Request for Dialog > > When the UA sends in initial request for a dialog, or a 2xx response "an initial request" S 6.1.1. > triggered by incoming mid-dialog requests is done based on local > policy. Such policy might be based on the type of SIP dialog, the > type of media (if any) negotiated for the dialog [RFC3264], etc. > > NOTE: As the 'pn-purr' SIP URI parameter only applies to a give > dialog, the UA needs to include a 'pn-purr' parameter in the Contact "to a given" dialog? S 6.2.1. > 6.2.1. REGISTER > > When the proxy receives an initial REGISTER request for a > registration from the UA, if the proxy supports requesting push > notifications, triggered by mid-dialog requests, towards the > registered UA, the proxy MUST store the information (the pn- SIP URI Too many commas here to make sense of this requirement S 10. > by two values, separated by a period (.): Team ID and Topic. The > Team ID is provided by Apple and is unique to a development team. > The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an > appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service > associated with the application, separated by a period (.). For VoIP > applications the service value is "voip". What is the syntax of these params? S 11. > The value of the pn-provider URI parameter is "fcm". > > The value of the pn-param URI parameter is the Project ID. > > The value of the pn-prid URI parameter is the Registration token, > which is generated by the FCM SDK for each client app instance. Again, what is the syntax of this? 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Thank You for the review! In this reply I'll try to address the DISCUSS iss= ues. The COMMENT issues will be addressed in a separate reply. DETAIL S 5.3.2. >> request) addressed towards a SIP UA, if the Request-URI of the >> request contains a pn-provider, a pn-prid and a pn-param (if requir= ed >> for the specific PNS provider) SIP URI parameter, the proxy request= s >> a push notification towards the UA, using the PRID included in the >> pn-prid SIP URI parameter and the PNS identified by the pn-provider >> SIP URI parameter. > >Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like it leaves open the >possibility for the PRID to not match the rest of the URI. E.g., >suppose that a@example.com and b@example.com both register with the >same proxy/registrar pair with PRIDa and PRIDb respectively. What >stops the registrar from generating (or forwarding) a call to >a@example.com, PRIDb? And what happens if that happens? Since no a@example.com:PRIDb binding has been registered, the registrar wil= l not generate such URI. --- S 5.3.2. >> also present (and has not expired) in the REGISTER response, the >> proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA, using normal SIP >> procedures. If the contact of the REGISTER request does not match >> the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, or if the conta= ct >> was not present in the REGISTER response, the proxy MUST reject the >> SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. This can happen if th= e > >How does this happen? I.e., how does the the REGISTER get correlated >with the SIP request to be forwarded in order to execute this >requirement? There could be cases where e.g. the PRID values match, but the rest of the = contact don't. But, I don't think that is relevant. What matters is that the contacts DO m= atch, AND that the contact is present in the REGISTER response. The rest wi= ll be handled by the timeout procedures. So, I think something like the following would be enough: "If the contact of the REGISTER request was not present in the REGISTER response, the proxy MUST reject the SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response." In addition, we could add a note below the timeout paragraph: "If the proxy does not receive the REGISTER request from the UA within a given time after the proxy has requested the push notification, the proxy MUST reject the request with a 480 (Temporarily Unavailable) response. The time value is set based on local policy. NOTE: In case a UA sends a binding-refresh REGISTER request that does no= t contain the previously registered contact at the same time the registrar forwards a = SIP request towards a UA using the previously registered contact in the Request-URI,= the proxy will not be able to match the contact with the Request-URI. This will tr= igger a timeout response. --- S 6.1. >> and be able to find and retrieve that information when it receives = a >> mid-dialog request. This section defines such mechanism. The UA a= nd >> proxy procedures in this section are applied in addition to the >> generic procedures defined in this specification. >> >> 6.1. SIP UA Behavior > >This section needs some kind of diagram that explains what the >mechanism is. I've read it a bunch of times, and I still don't >understand it. I think it would more or less be a copy of the diagram in Section 1. I coul= d either reference, or copy/paste that diagram. --- S 6.2.1. >> generated key as the value to the associated 2xx REGISTER response. >> >> The PURR value MUST be generated in such a way so that it cannot be >> used to retrieve information about the user or associate it with >> registrations. It can be generated e.g., by utilizing a >> cryptographically secure random function. > >This seems to weak. I assume you also don't want it to be possible to >determine that two PURRs correspond to the same user. Also who must be >able to use it in this way. Presumably the proxy can? > >Why is this not a requirement for say PRID? The PURR value will reach the remote user. The PRID will only reach the reg= istrar. --- S 13. >> specification. Web push permits the sending of a push message >> without a payload without encryption. >> >> 13. Security Considerations >> >> Different mechanisms exist for authenticating and authorizing devic= es > >You need to discuss the security implications of knowledge of the push >parameters (principally PRID). What happens if an attacker learns >them? Based on the sec-dir review, I did some modifications/additions to the secu= rity considerations. They can be seen in the following pull request: https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31 Regarding your comment, I have tried to address that with the following sug= gested text: "Typically, the PNS requires the SIP proxy requesting push noti= fications to be authenticated and authorized by the PNS. In some cases the PNS = also require the SIP application (or the SIP application developer) to be id= entified in order for the application to request push notifications. Unless the PNS authe= nticates and authorizes the PNS, a malicious middleman that managed to get access to the paramet= ers transported in the SIP signalling might be able to request push notifications towards a UA. Which= such push notifications will not have any security related impacts, they will impact the battery= life of the UA and trigger unnecessary SIP traffic." Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB316119D1A9FCD7CE4159021A93890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


Thank You for the review! In this= reply I'll try to address the DISCUSS issues. The COMMENT issues will be a= ddressed in a separate reply.


DETAIL
S 5.3.2.
>>      request) addressed towards a SIP UA,= if the Request-URI of the
>>      request contains a pn-provider, a pn= -prid and a pn-param (if required
>>      for the specific PNS provider) SIP U= RI parameter, the proxy requests
>>      a push notification towards the UA, = using the PRID included in the
>>      pn-prid SIP URI parameter and the PN= S identified by the pn-provider
>>      SIP URI parameter.
>
>Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like it leaves open the
>possibility for the PRID to not match the rest of the URI. E.g.,
>suppose that a@example.com and b@example.com both register with the
>same proxy/registrar pair with PRIDa and PRIDb respectively. What
>stops the registrar from generating (or forwarding) a call to
>a@example.com, PRIDb? And what happens if that happens?

Since no a@example.com:PRIDb binding has been regi= stered, the registrar will not generate such URI.

---

S 5.3.2.
>>      also present (and has not expired) in the REGI= STER response, the
>>      proxy can forward the SIP request towards the = UA, using normal SIP
>>      procedures.  If the contact of the REGIST= ER request does not match
>>      the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwa= rded, or if the contact
>>      was not present in the REGISTER response, the = proxy MUST reject the
>>      SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.&n= bsp; This can happen if the
>
>How does this happen? I.e., how does the the REGISTER get correlated >with the SIP request to be forwarded in order to execute this
>requirement?

There could be cases where e.g. the PRID values ma= tch, but the rest of the contact don't. 

But, I don't think that is relevant. What matters = is that the contacts DO match, AND that the contact is present in the REGIS= TER response. The rest will be handled by the timeout procedures.

So, I think something like the following would be = enough:

   "If the contact of the REGISTER request was not pres= ent in the 
     REGISTER response, the proxy MUST reject the SIP r= equest with a 
     404 (Not Found) response."  

In addition, we could add a note below the timeout paragraph:

   "If the proxy does not receive the REGISTER request = from the UA within
   a given time after the proxy has requested the push notificati= on, the
   proxy MUST reject the request with a 480 (Temporarily Unavaila= ble)
   response.  The time value is set based on local policy.

   NOTE: In case a UA sends a binding-refresh REGISTER reque= st that does not contain the
   previously registered contact at the same time the regist= rar forwards a SIP request
   towards a UA using the previously registered contact in t= he Request-URI, the proxy
   will not be able to match the contact with the Request-UR= I. This will trigger a timeout 
   response.

---

S 6.1.
>>      and be able to find and retrieve tha= t information when it receives a
>>      mid-dialog request.  This secti= on defines such mechanism.  The UA and
>>      proxy procedures in this section are= applied in addition to the
>>      generic procedures defined in this s= pecification.
>>  
>>   6.1.  SIP UA Behavior
>
>This section needs some kind of diagram that explains what the
>mechanism is. I've read it a bunch of times, and I still don't
>understand it.

I think it would more or less be a copy of the dia= gram in Section 1. I could either reference, or copy/paste that diagram.

---

S 6.2.1.
>>      generated key as the value to the as= sociated 2xx REGISTER response.
>>  
>>      The PURR value MUST be generated in = such a way so that it cannot be
>>      used to retrieve information about t= he user or associate it with
>>      registrations.  It can be gener= ated e.g., by utilizing a
>>      cryptographically secure random func= tion.
>
>This seems to weak. I assume you also don't want it to be possible to >determine that two PURRs correspond to the same user. Also who must be<= br> >able to use it in this way. Presumably the proxy can?
>
>Why is this not a requirement for say PRID?

The PURR value will reach the remote user. The PRI= D will only reach the registrar.

---

S 13.
>>      specification.  Web push permit= s the sending of a push message
>>      without a payload without encryption= .
>>  
>>   13.  Security Considerations
>>  
>>      Different mechanisms exist for authe= nticating and authorizing devices
>
>You need to discuss the security implications of knowledge of the push<= br> >parameters (principally PRID). What happens if an attacker learns
>them?

Based on the sec-dir review, I did some modificati= ons/additions to the security considerations. They can be seen in the follo= wing pull request:

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31


Regarding your comment, I have tried to address th= at with the following suggested text:

            "Typically, the PNS req= uires the SIP proxy requesting push notifications to be
            authenti= cated and authorized by the PNS. In some cases the PNS also require
            the SIP = application (or the SIP application developer) to be identified in order fo= r the
            applicat= ion to request push notifications. Unless the PNS authenticates and authori= zes the PNS,
            a malici= ous middleman that managed to get access to the parameters transported in t= he SIP signalling
            might be= able to request push notifications towards a UA. Which such push notificat= ions will not
            have any= security related impacts, they will impact the battery life of the UA and = trigger
            unnecess= ary SIP traffic."

Regards,

Christer



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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In this reply I will address the COMMENT issues: >This document is very badly in need of editorial work for readability. >I would urge the responsible AD to make one. I have done quite a bit of editorial work based on WGLC/AD comments etc. I = am happy to improve it even further, but someone needs to guide me what to = do. S 1. >> used to wake such applications, nor will incoming network traffic >> wake the application. Instead, one way to wake the application is = by >> using a Push Notification Service (PNS). Typically each operating >> system uses a dedicated PNS. For example, Apple iOS devices use th= e >> Apple Push Notification service (APNs) while Android devices use th= e >> Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) service. > >What is a Push Notification Service? I mean, I know, but you need to >say. I will add some text/reference about that. --- S 1. >> will request push notifications towards the UA. >> >> When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog or a stand- >> alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy >> determines that the UA needs to send a binding-refresh REGISTER >> request, the proxy will request a push notification towards the UA, > > "request ... towards" is ungrammatical Is "request a push notification to be sent towards the UA" better? --- S 1. >> |<---------------------| | >> | | | >> | SIP REGISTER (Push Resource ID) | >> |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| >> | | | SIP REGIST= ER >> | | |=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> > >These arrows don't seem to go anywhere. I think you need to label the >registrar. Ok, I will label the "registrar/home proxy" (I don't think we need to separ= ate them). --- S 4.1. >> >> NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP UA are outside the >> scope of this document. >> >> When the UA receives a push notification, it MUST send a binding- >> refresh REGISTER request, using normal SIP procedures. If there ar= e > >This seems unnecessarily restrictive. Are we never going to want any >other kind of push notification? Well, in order for this mechanism to work, it has to be a MUST, and the pro= cedures obviously only applies to UAs that use the SIP push mechanism. If there will be additional usages of push notifications for such UAs, I th= ink they will have to deal with making sure the UA is able to determine wha= t usage the push notifications are associated with. --- S 4.1. >> protocol is used, the SIP request might reach the UA before the >> REGISTER response. >> >> NOTE: The lifetime of any NAT binding created by the REGISTER reque= st >> only needs to be long enough in order for the SIP request that >> triggered the push notification to reach the UA. > >This general architectural point should be made further up. Ok, I will move it. --- S 4.1. >> [RFC3840] in each Contact header field URI of each REGISTER request= . >> Then, if the response to the REGISTER request contains a 'sip.pnsre= g' >> feature-capability indicator with an indicator value, the UA >> refreshes the binding prior to the binding expires. The indicator >> value indicates a minimum time (given in seconds), prior to the >> binding expires when the UA MUST send the REGISTER request. Even i= f > >This sentence needs a rewrite. I'll see what I can do. --- S 4.1. >> Then, if the response to the REGISTER request contains a 'sip.pnsre= g' >> feature-capability indicator with an indicator value, the UA >> refreshes the binding prior to the binding expires. The indicator >> value indicates a minimum time (given in seconds), prior to the >> binding expires when the UA MUST send the REGISTER request. Even i= f >> the UA is able to to send REGISTER requests using a non-push > >"to to" Will fix. >Also, all UAs that are conformant to this specification are able to >send REGISTERS via a non-push as the first register is sent that way. Correct. I will clarify that. --- S 4.1. >> capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-registration >> REGISTER request when it receives a push notification (even if the = UA >> is able to use a non-push mechanism for sending re-registration >> REGISTER requests), or when there are circumstances (e.g., if the U= A >> is assigned new contact parameters due to a network configuration >> change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. > >This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't >contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send regular >REGISTERs The text is about "sip.pnsreq". --- S 4.1. >> change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. >> >> NOTE: If the UA uses a non-push mechanism to wake and send a bindin= g >> refresh REGISTER request, such REGISTER request will update the >> binding expiration timer, and the proxy does not need to request a >> push notification towards the UA in order to wake the UA. The prox= y > >This doesn't seem obviously correct. Why is this so? As the UA will use other (non-push) mechanisms to wake up for updating the = binding expiration timer, there is no need to use push notifications for th= at. --- S 4.1. >> REGISTER request. >> >> If the UA no longer wants to receive push notifications (requested = by >> the proxy), the UA MUST send a binding-refresh REGISTER request >> without including the SIP URI parameters described above, or the UA >> MUST remove the registration. > >This seems pretty hard to conform with, given that mobile applications >are often just shut down with no warning. On shut down, I believe mobile applications are typically moved in to a sta= te where they are still able to perform some actions. Anyway, the text applies to situations where the UA is able to perform acti= ons. So, perhaps clarifying that with: "the UA MUST (unless it is no longer able to perform SIP procedures, e.g., = due to a forced shutdown) send a" --- S 4.1. >> document. >> >> For privacy and security reasons, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP U= RI >> parameters defined in this document in non-REGISTER request, to >> prevent the PNS information associated with the UA from reaching th= e >> remote peer. For example, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI > >For non-SIP experts, why is this not an issue with REGISTER? The REGISTER will only reach your registrar, it will not be forwarded to th= e remote peer. --- S 5.2. >> the registrar using some mechanism. Such mechanisms are outside th= e >> scope of this document, but could be implemented e.g., using the >> SIPregistration event package mechanism [RFC3680]. >> >> When the proxy receives an indication that the UA needs to send a >> binding-refresh REGISTER request, the proxy requests a push > >You need to define what such an indication is. As described in the paragraph above, the indication mechanism is outside th= e scope of the document. RFC 3680 can be used (and is given as an example),= but there could also be other mechanisms. --- S 5.2. >> scope of this document, but could be implemented e.g., using the >> SIPregistration event package mechanism [RFC3680]. >> >> When the proxy receives an indication that the UA needs to send a >> binding-refresh REGISTER request, the proxy requests a push >> notification towards the UA. > > "requests...towards" again Will fix. --- S 5.2. >> If the UA has indicated, using the 'sip.pnsreg' media feature tag, >> that it is able to wake using a non-push mechanism for sending >> binding-refresh REGISTER requests, if the proxy does not receive a >> REGISTER request prior to 120 seconds before the registration >> expires, the proxy MAY request a push notification towards the UA, = to >> trigger the UA to send a REGISTER request. > >This paragraph needs to be rewritten in some way that is not so >conditional dense. There are only two conditions, aren't there? --- S 5.2. >> UA expects to receive push notifications from the network. A proxy >> will not request push notifications towards a UA that has not >> provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter. >> >> If the proxy receives information that a registration has expired, >> the proxy MUST NOT request further push notifications towards the U= A. > > Again, how would it receive such information? E.g., using RFC 3680 - or some other mechanism. As different networks and a= rchitectures might use different mechanisms for updating its nodes about th= e registration status, we don't want to mandate a specific mechanism. --- S 5.3.1. >> >> 5.3. SIP Requests >> >> 5.3.1. REGISTER >> >> The procedures in this section apply when the SIP proxy receives a > >This section is incredibly hard to follow. Can you rewrite it with >some sort of structure that reflects the logic of the proxy? I'll see what I can do. --- S 5.3.1. >> registrar too short, the proxy MUST NOT insert a Feature-Caps heade= r >> field with a 'sip.pns' feature-capability indicator in the response= , >> and the proxy MUST NOT request push notifications associated with t= he >> registration. A registration expiration interval MUST be considere= d >> too short if the interval is smaller than the time prior to >> expiration that the proxy would request a push notification. The > >What does this text mean? If the registration interval is considered too short, a proxy will not enab= le SIP push. For example, assume a proxy would send a push notification 30 seconds prior= to registration expirations. Now, if the registration expiration interval is only 20 seconds, it would n= ot work. I don't think this will ever happen in real life, but people wanted this te= xt. --- S 5.3.2. >> >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and 2x= x >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the UA= . > >Why not race these? One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated. --- S 6.1.1. >> >> 6.1. SIP UA Behavior >> >> 6.1.1. Initial Request for Dialog >> >> When the UA sends in initial request for a dialog, or a 2xx respons= e > >"an initial request" Will fix. --- S 6.1.1. >> triggered by incoming mid-dialog requests is done based on local >> policy. Such policy might be based on the type of SIP dialog, the >> type of media (if any) negotiated for the dialog [RFC3264], etc. >> >> NOTE: As the 'pn-purr' SIP URI parameter only applies to a give >> dialog, the UA needs to include a 'pn-purr' parameter in the Contac= t > > "to a given" dialog? Correct. Will fix. --- S 6.2.1. >> 6.2.1. REGISTER >> >> When the proxy receives an initial REGISTER request for a >> registration from the UA, if the proxy supports requesting push >> notifications, triggered by mid-dialog requests, towards the >> registered UA, the proxy MUST store the information (the pn- SIP UR= I > > Too many commas here to make sense of this requirement I'll see what I can do to fix that. --- S 10. >> by two values, separated by a period (.): Team ID and Topic. The >> Team ID is provided by Apple and is unique to a development team. >> The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an >> appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service >> associated with the application, separated by a period (.). For Vo= IP >> applications the service value is "voip". > > What is the syntax of these params? The details can be found in the PNS specific documentation. --- S 11. >> The value of the pn-provider URI parameter is "fcm". >> >> The value of the pn-param URI parameter is the Project ID. >> >> The value of the pn-prid URI parameter is the Registration token, >> which is generated by the FCM SDK for each client app instance. > > Again, what is the syntax of this? Same as above. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31611EECBA89EF1FC46D756C93890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


In this reply I will address the = COMMENT issues:


>This document is very badly in need of editori= al work for readability.
>I would urge the responsible AD to make one.

I have done quite a bit of editorial work based on= WGLC/AD comments etc. I am happy to improve it even further, but someone n= eeds to guide me what to do. 

S 1.
>>      used to wake such applications, nor = will incoming network traffic
>>      wake the application.  Instead,= one way to wake the application is by
>>      using a Push Notification Service (P= NS).  Typically each operating
>>      system uses a dedicated PNS.  F= or example, Apple iOS devices use the
>>      Apple Push Notification service (APN= s) while Android devices use the
>>      Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) servi= ce.
>
>What is a Push Notification Service? I mean, I know, but you need to >say.

I will add some text/reference about that.

---

S 1.
>>      will request push notifications towa= rds the UA.
>>   
>>      When the proxy receives a SIP request for a ne= w dialog or a stand-
>>      alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or w= hen the proxy
>>      determines that the UA needs to send a binding= -refresh REGISTER
>>      request, the proxy will request a push notific= ation towards the UA,
>
> "request ... towards" is ungrammatical

Is "request a push notification to be sent to= wards the UA" better?

---

S 1.
>>            = |<---------------------|        =             &nb= sp;    |
>>            = |            &n= bsp;         |   &nb= sp;            =          |
>>            = |          SIP REGISTER (Push = Resource ID)       |
>>            = |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>|<= br> >>            = |            &n= bsp;         |   &nb= sp;            =          | SIP REGISTER
>>            = |            &n= bsp;         |   &nb= sp;            =          |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D>
>
>These arrows don't seem to go anywhere. I think you need to label the >registrar.

Ok, I will label the "registrar/home proxy&qu= ot; (I don't think we need to separate them).

---

S 4.1.
>>   
>>      NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP= UA are outside the
>>      scope of this document.
>>   
>>      When the UA receives a push notification, it M= UST send a binding-
>>      refresh REGISTER request, using normal SIP pro= cedures.  If there are
>
>This seems unnecessarily restrictive. Are we never going to want any >other kind of push notification?

Well, in order for this mechanism to work, it has = to be a MUST, and the procedures obviously only applies to UAs that use the= SIP push mechanism.

If there will be additional usages of push notific= ations for such UAs, I think they will have to deal with making sure the UA= is able to determine what usage the push notifications are associated with= . 

---

S 4.1.
>>      protocol is used, the SIP request mi= ght reach the UA before the
>>      REGISTER response.
>>   
>>      NOTE: The lifetime of any NAT binding created = by the REGISTER request
>>      only needs to be long enough in order for the = SIP request that
>>      triggered the push notification to reach the U= A.
>
>This general architectural point should be made further up.

Ok, I will move it.

---

S 4.1.
>>      [RFC3840] in each Contact header fie= ld URI of each REGISTER request.
>>      Then, if the response to the REGISTE= R request contains a 'sip.pnsreg'
>>      feature-capability indicator with an= indicator value, the UA
>>      refreshes the binding prior to the b= inding expires.  The indicator
>>      value indicates a minimum time (give= n in seconds), prior to the
>>      binding expires when the UA MUST sen= d the REGISTER request.  Even if
>
>This sentence needs a rewrite.

I'll see what I can do.

---

S 4.1.
>>      Then, if the response to the REGISTE= R request contains a 'sip.pnsreg'
>>      feature-capability indicator with an= indicator value, the UA
>>      refreshes the binding prior to the b= inding expires.  The indicator
>>      value indicates a minimum time (give= n in seconds), prior to the
>>      binding expires when the UA MUST sen= d the REGISTER request.  Even if
>>      the UA is able to to send REGISTER r= equests using a non-push
>
>"to to"

Will fix.

>Also, all UAs that are conformant to this specification are able to
>send REGISTERS via a non-push as the first register is sent that way.
Correct. I will clarify that.

---

S 4.1.
>>      capability indicator, the UA SHOULD = only send a re-registration
>>      REGISTER request when it receives a push notif= ication (even if the UA
>>      is able to use a non-push mechanism for sendin= g re-registration
>>      REGISTER requests), or when there are circumst= ances (e.g., if the UA
>>      is assigned new contact parameters due to a ne= twork configuration
>>      change) that require an immediate REGISTER req= uest to be sent.
>
>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't
>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send = regular
>REGISTERs

The text is about "sip.pnsreq".

---

S 4.1.
>>      change) that require an immediate RE= GISTER request to be sent.
>>  
>>      NOTE: If the UA uses a non-push mech= anism to wake and send a binding
>>      refresh REGISTER request, such REGIS= TER request will update the
>>      binding expiration timer, and the pr= oxy does not need to request a
>>      push notification towards the UA in = order to wake the UA.  The proxy
>
>This doesn't seem obviously correct. Why is this so?

As the UA will use other (non-push) mechanisms to = wake up for updating the binding expiration timer, there is no need to use = push notifications for that.

---

S 4.1.
>>      REGISTER request.
>>  
>>      If the UA no longer wants to receive= push notifications (requested by
>>      the proxy), the UA MUST send a bindi= ng-refresh REGISTER request
>>      without including the SIP URI parame= ters described above, or the UA
>>      MUST remove the registration.
>
>This seems pretty hard to conform with, given that mobile applications<= br> >are often just shut down with no warning.

On shut down, I believe mobile applications are ty= pically moved in to a state where they are still able to perform some actio= ns.

Anyway, the text applies to situations where the U= A is able to perform actions.

So, perhaps clarifying that with:

"the UA MUST (unless it is no longer able to perform SIP procedures, e.g., due = to a forced shutdown) send a" 

---

S 4.1.
>>      document.
>>   
>>      For privacy and security reasons, th= e UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI
>>      parameters defined in this document = in non-REGISTER request, to
>>      prevent the PNS information associat= ed with the UA from reaching the
>>      remote peer.  For example, the = UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI
>
>For non-SIP experts, why is this not an issue with REGISTER?

The REGISTER will only reach your registrar, it wi= ll not be forwarded to the remote peer.

---

S 5.2.
>>      the registrar using some mechanism.&= nbsp; Such mechanisms are outside the
>>      scope of this document, but could be= implemented e.g., using the
>>      SIPregistration event package mechan= ism [RFC3680].
>>  
>>      When the proxy receives an indicatio= n that the UA needs to send a
>>      binding-refresh REGISTER request, th= e proxy requests a push
>
>You need to define what such an indication is.

As described in the paragraph above, the indicatio= n mechanism is outside the scope of the document. RFC 3680 can be used (and= is given as an example), but there could also be other mechanisms.

---

S 5.2.
>>      scope of this document, but could be implement= ed e.g., using the
>>      SIPregistration event package mechanism [RFC36= 80].
>>   
>>      When the proxy receives an indication that the= UA needs to send a
>>      binding-refresh REGISTER request, the proxy re= quests a push
>>      notification towards the UA.
>
> "requests...towards" again

Will fix.

---

S 5.2.
>>      If the UA has indicated, using the '= sip.pnsreg' media feature tag,
>>      that it is able to wake using a non-= push mechanism for sending
>>      binding-refresh REGISTER requests, i= f the proxy does not receive a
>>      REGISTER request prior to 120 second= s before the registration
>>      expires, the proxy MAY request a pus= h notification towards the UA, to
>>      trigger the UA to send a REGISTER re= quest.
>
>This paragraph needs to be rewritten in some way that is not so
>conditional dense.

There are only two conditions, aren't there?

---

S 5.2.
>>      UA expects to receive push notificat= ions from the network.  A proxy
>>      will not request push notifications towards a = UA that has not
>>      provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter.
>>   
>>      If the proxy receives information that a regis= tration has expired,
>>      the proxy MUST NOT request further push notifi= cations towards the UA.
>
> Again, how would it receive such information?

E.g., using RFC 3680 - or some other mechanism. As= different networks and architectures might use different mechanisms for up= dating its nodes about the registration status, we don't want to mandate a = specific mechanism.

---

S 5.3.1.
>>   
>>   5.3.  SIP Requests
>>   
>>   5.3.1.  REGISTER
>>   
>>      The procedures in this section apply when the = SIP proxy receives a
>
>This section is incredibly hard to follow. Can you rewrite it with
>some sort of structure that reflects the logic of the proxy?

I'll see what I can do.

---

S 5.3.1.
>>      registrar too short, the proxy MUST = NOT insert a Feature-Caps header
>>      field with a 'sip.pns' feature-capability indi= cator in the response,
>>      and the proxy MUST NOT request push = notifications associated with the
>>      registration.  A registration e= xpiration interval MUST be considered
>>      too short if the interval is smaller= than the time prior to
>>      expiration that the proxy would requ= est a push notification.  The
>
>What does this text mean?

If the registration interval is considered too sho= rt, a proxy will not enable SIP push. 

For example, assume a proxy would send a push noti= fication 30 seconds prior to registration expirations.

Now, if the registration expiration interval is on= ly 20 seconds, it would not work.

I don't think this will ever happen in real life, = but people wanted this text.

---

S 5.3.2.
>>  
>>      If the proxy has knowledge that the = UA is awake, and that the UA is
>>      able to receive the SIP request with= out first sending a REGISTER
>>      request, the proxy MAY choose to not= request a push notification
>>      towards the UA (and wait for the ass= ociated REGISTER request and 2xx
>>      response) before it tries to forward= the SIP request towards the UA.
>
>Why not race these?

One could do that, but I don't think it should be = mandated.

---

S 6.1.1.
>>  
>>   6.1.  SIP UA Behavior
>>   
>>   6.1.1.  Initial Request for Dialog
>>   
>>      When the UA sends in initial request for a dia= log, or a 2xx response
>
>"an initial request"

Will fix.

---

S 6.1.1.
>>      triggered by incoming mid-dialog req= uests is done based on local
>>      policy.  Such policy might be b= ased on the type of SIP dialog, the
>>      type of media (if any) negotiated for the dial= og [RFC3264], etc.
>>   
>>      NOTE: As the 'pn-purr' SIP URI parameter only = applies to a give
>>      dialog, the UA needs to include a 'pn-purr' pa= rameter in the Contact
>
> "to a given" dialog?

Correct. Will fix.

---

S 6.2.1.
>>   6.2.1.  REGISTER
>>   
>>      When the proxy receives an initial REGISTER re= quest for a
>>      registration from the UA, if the proxy support= s requesting push
>>      notifications, triggered by mid-dialog request= s, towards the
>>      registered UA, the proxy MUST store the inform= ation (the pn- SIP URI
>
> Too many commas here to make sense of this requirement

I'll see what I can do to fix that.

---

S 10.
>>      by two values, separated by a period (.): Team= ID and Topic.  The
>>      Team ID is provided by Apple and is = unique to a development team.
>>      The Topic consists of the Bundle ID,= which uniquelly identifies an
>>      appliciation, and a service value th= at identifies a service
>>      associated with the application, sep= arated by a period (.).  For VoIP
>>      applications the service value is &q= uot;voip".
>
> What is the syntax of these params?

The details can be found in the PNS specific documentation.

---

S 11.
>>      The value of the pn-provider URI par= ameter is "fcm".
>>  
>>      The value of the pn-param URI parameter is the= Project ID.
>>   
>>      The value of the pn-prid URI parameter is the = Registration token,
>>      which is generated by the FCM SDK for each cli= ent app instance.
>
> Again, what is the syntax of this?

Same as above.

Regards,

Christer




--_000_HE1PR07MB31611EECBA89EF1FC46D756C93890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Mon Jan 7 06:06:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7848E130EB0 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:06:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PLsxEhHm8H10 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com (mail-lf1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D39AF130EA1 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:06:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id b20so332159lfa.12 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 06:06:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=13CG/SkdZeasB7tP61SfYs6qAWBZ9hHViE9NjQkYYds=; b=lG7dnbXzPUdP43TBAAEBvKDATj0+JGCbRzikiXn29Ul+sPcL2MKKrmR7HRusQRpI5i fHVugXW/vdFy9OicDHjzmavl9NviFvmlKSZSHPbXTqCNUP5NGxmdFIY+WU4nXZF688bW pEKVZbQmhYT06KhQiZs/YFiy6gEWKd2X2D8RIdgsFRQbatwHth+hww4BxYbo9wWFKm3p t6r9DJIRWg+ihJF3bo5R5CQcu/UvaFOTaF+25CUG+ilghHbaP+COOMfitlwx5NhUqZb9 8MLmcAiAZll6Bpfj1ixw6LG5fRyDxRqn8SsOAWx+RNcYR9DmbaLUmewbs15sBswvX9/l ORew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=13CG/SkdZeasB7tP61SfYs6qAWBZ9hHViE9NjQkYYds=; b=W3/KGrCILEpjZnZcsQogRZfN+afeTQMnDjjbXmTP2mGpkLrqgTVPDvngSUk0UOJxwP JThJTX+uuZre1Vxxw+Qlv0n4vB+BHkHWQM/4um7Pon/9H04iSGzqbiA5quKwKbqF1ti/ ElFk2Nwwjzlf0DEv/6Q45v7Xihu2+eQjKAky0rzkLmlCcaVZjMt9gebWzU6/I5n+8JqP IBp+jLhDsRniIgTECIiOh6Klx1zC5Bfp8aLWnguWEWyjUtiAZl2bJLwQWsrpHFF/kyEQ 5Wz/aBIBT4HBuOxBwhVkVbBDX+gqjjJTzK9S2A2g0eQc4ebj8OlJga7fmbmj8ku/SnPA zN1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbxPtIr2MYei+RK2vZmOZ+beJJxjWMnQ66v6KLFNObUZyTKvyri DUHNHjQz7PjzCVAOxE8HOmhmGPJ5pJo6ggMyqbsSiQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XqEqrahGqilMRiQTiPps8BY72gUxXWj0+RWVHg6NRqa+tCNpBZ6FxtGSVbgJSGnH0ZjuZhIPQ9YD6CG1NTub4= X-Received: by 2002:a19:ca51:: with SMTP id h17mr28684269lfj.126.1546870008962; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 06:06:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eric Rescorla Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:06:11 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000660547057edebd9b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - The DISCUSS issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 14:06:55 -0000 --000000000000660547057edebd9b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 2:11 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > Thank You for the review! In this reply I'll try to address the DISCUSS > issues. The COMMENT issues will be addressed in a separate reply. > > DETAIL > S 5.3.2. > >> request) addressed towards a SIP UA, if the Request-URI of the > >> request contains a pn-provider, a pn-prid and a pn-param (if > required > >> for the specific PNS provider) SIP URI parameter, the proxy > requests > >> a push notification towards the UA, using the PRID included in the > >> pn-prid SIP URI parameter and the PNS identified by the pn-provider > >> SIP URI parameter. > > > >Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like it leaves open the > >possibility for the PRID to not match the rest of the URI. E.g., > >suppose that a@example.com and b@example.com both register with the > >same proxy/registrar pair with PRIDa and PRIDb respectively. What > >stops the registrar from generating (or forwarding) a call to > >a@example.com, PRIDb? And what happens if that happens? > > Since no a@example.com:PRIDb binding has been registered, the registrar > will not generate such URI. > No conformant registrar will. But what about a nonconformant one? Or another endpoint. --- > > S 5.3.2. > >> also present (and has not expired) in the REGISTER response, the > >> proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA, using normal SIP > >> procedures. If the contact of the REGISTER request does not match > >> the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, or if the > contact > >> was not present in the REGISTER response, the proxy MUST reject the > >> SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. This can happen if > the > > > >How does this happen? I.e., how does the the REGISTER get correlated > >with the SIP request to be forwarded in order to execute this > >requirement? > > There could be cases where e.g. the PRID values match, but the rest of the > contact don't. > Such as? But, I don't think that is relevant. What matters is that the contacts DO > match, AND that the contact is present in the REGISTER response. The rest > will be handled by the timeout procedures. > But *this* text requires you to behave in a certain way in case of mismatch. When will this be executed? > > S 6.1. > >> and be able to find and retrieve that information when it receives > a > >> mid-dialog request. This section defines such mechanism. The UA > and > >> proxy procedures in this section are applied in addition to the > >> generic procedures defined in this specification. > >> > >> 6.1. SIP UA Behavior > > > >This section needs some kind of diagram that explains what the > >mechanism is. I've read it a bunch of times, and I still don't > >understand it. > > I think it would more or less be a copy of the diagram in Section 1. I > could either reference, or copy/paste that diagram. > > --- > > S 6.2.1. > >> generated key as the value to the associated 2xx REGISTER response. > >> > >> The PURR value MUST be generated in such a way so that it cannot be > >> used to retrieve information about the user or associate it with > >> registrations. It can be generated e.g., by utilizing a > >> cryptographically secure random function. > > > >This seems to weak. I assume you also don't want it to be possible to > >determine that two PURRs correspond to the same user. Also who must be > >able to use it in this way. Presumably the proxy can? > > > >Why is this not a requirement for say PRID? > > The PURR value will reach the remote user. The PRID will only reach the > registrar. > You need to say that. S 13. >> specification. Web push permits the sending of a push message >> without a payload without encryption. >> >> 13. Security Considerations >> >> Different mechanisms exist for authenticating and authorizing devices > >You need to discuss the security implications of knowledge of the push >parameters (principally PRID). What happens if an attacker learns >them? > > Based on the sec-dir review, I did some modifications/additions to the > security considerations. They can be seen in the following pull request: > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31 > > > Regarding your comment, I have tried to address that with the following > suggested text: > > "Typically, the PNS requires the SIP proxy requesting push > notifications to be > authenticated and authorized by the PNS. In some cases the PNS > also require > the SIP application (or the SIP application developer) to be > identified in order for the > application to request push notifications. Unless the PNS > authenticates and authorizes the PNS, > a malicious middleman that managed to get access to the > parameters transported in the SIP signalling > might be able to request push notifications towards a UA. > Which such push notifications will not > have any security related impacts, they will impact the > battery life of the UA and trigger > unnecessary SIP traffic." > Why "middleman" as opposed to any endpoint. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > --000000000000660547057edebd9b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 2:11 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com= > wrote:

Hi,


Thank You for the review! In = this reply I'll try to address the DISCUSS issues. The COMMENT issues w= ill be addressed in a separate reply.


DETAIL
S 5.3.2.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 request) addressed towards a SIP UA,= if the Request-URI of the
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 request contains a pn-provider, a pn= -prid and a pn-param (if required
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 for the specific PNS provider) SIP U= RI parameter, the proxy requests
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 a push notification towards the UA, = using the PRID included in the
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 pn-prid SIP URI parameter and the PN= S identified by the pn-provider
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SIP URI parameter.
>
>Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like it leaves open the=
>possibility for the PRID to not match the rest of the URI. E.g.,
>suppose that a@examp= le.com and b@example= .com both register with the
>same proxy/registrar pair with PRIDa and PRIDb respectively. What
>stops the registrar from generating (or forwarding) a call to
>a@example.com, P= RIDb? And what happens if that happens?

Since no a@example.com:P= RIDb binding has been registered, the registrar will not generate such URI.=

No c= onformant registrar will. But what about a nonconformant one? Or another en= dpoint.

---

S 5.3.2.
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 also present (and has not expired) in the REGI= STER response, the
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 proxy can forward the SIP request towards the = UA, using normal SIP
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 procedures.=C2=A0 If the contact of the REGIST= ER request does not match
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwa= rded, or if the contact
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 was not present in the REGISTER response, the = proxy MUST reject the
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.= =C2=A0 This can happen if the
>
>How does this happen? I.e., how does the the REGISTER get correlated >with the SIP request to be forwarded in order to execute this
>requirement?

There could be cases whe= re e.g. the PRID values match, but the rest of the contact don't.=C2=A0=

Such as?


<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
But, I don't think t= hat is relevant. What matters is that the contacts DO match, AND that the c= ontact is present in the REGISTER response. The rest will be handled by the= timeout procedures.

But *this* text requires you to behave in a certain w= ay in case of mismatch. When will this be executed?

S 6.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and be able to find and retrieve tha= t information when it receives a
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mid-dialog request.=C2=A0 This secti= on defines such mechanism.=C2=A0 The UA and
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 proxy procedures in this section are= applied in addition to the
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 generic procedures defined in this s= pecification.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0 6.1.=C2=A0 SIP UA Behavior
>
>This section needs some kind of diagram that explains what the
>mechanism is. I've read it a bunch of times, and I still don't<= br> >understand it.

I think it would more or= less be a copy of the diagram in Section 1. I could either reference, or c= opy/paste that diagram.

---

S 6.2.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 generated key as the value to the as= sociated 2xx REGISTER response.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The PURR value MUST be generated in = such a way so that it cannot be
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 used to retrieve information about t= he user or associate it with
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 registrations.=C2=A0 It can be gener= ated e.g., by utilizing a
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cryptographically secure random func= tion.
>
>This seems to weak. I assume you also don't want it to be possible = to
>determine that two PURRs correspond to the same user. Also who must be<= br> >able to use it in this way. Presumably the proxy can?
>
>Why is this not a requirement for say PRID?

The PURR value will reac= h the remote user. The PRID will only reach the registrar.
=

You need to= say that.





S 13.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 specification.=C2=A0 Web push permit= s the sending of a push message
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 without a payload without encryption= .
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0 13.=C2=A0 Security Considerations
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Different mechanisms exist for authe= nticating and authorizing devices
>
>You need to discuss the security implications of knowledge of the push<= br> >parameters (principally PRID). What happens if an attacker learns
>them?

Based on the sec-dir rev= iew, I did some modifications/additions to the security considerations. The= y can be seen in the following pull request:

htt= ps://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31


Regarding your comment, = I have tried to address that with the following suggested text:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Typically, the PNS req= uires the SIP proxy requesting push notifications to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 authenti= cated and authorized by the PNS. In some cases the PNS also require
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the SIP = application (or the SIP application developer) to be identified in order fo= r the
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 applicat= ion to request push notifications. Unless the PNS authenticates and authori= zes the PNS,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 a malici= ous middleman that managed to get access to the parameters transported in t= he SIP signalling
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 might be= able to request push notifications towards a UA. Which such push notificat= ions will not
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 have any= security related impacts, they will impact the battery life of the UA and = trigger
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 unnecess= ary SIP traffic."

Why "middleman" as opposed to any e= ndpoint.
<= div class=3D"gmail-m_826419355811818039PlainText">
Regards,

Christer



--000000000000660547057edebd9b-- From nobody Mon Jan 7 06:09:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF21130EA0 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:09:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1vhABlfnFk_x for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:09:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77A4A130EAB for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:09:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id c19-v6so430761lja.5 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 06:09:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XzFh8fPhMlfn+pH2vJ7YFScZVEKKxs3G/NuadCBuLLM=; b=fuOHRaRUx0/WOw4Fs25qoYzD/1+tdu6SHWvpViU0F6mKNWdjugvpOjUluxyssLFIjI 9qJsp41ahFK40bXStS6Q8y8satsLcrGo8H6pyUk5FXAZSvLAdxe9q6pN6F9V9fq60OFj YYdW+qYm1dJii4CiNzuxR5AFQBTxm8ZQcjcxe7KiaT434vc06qM37D5ZiTQt5Dp+cCcq wDBk2XCWPhDYbDjUaVfO5Qgiz2VtCc8ZQohCyhJxVT7klEGlMlNxFrS6x+96ADVcJVxy nzA19ojv8rgwRm2hdUhYElcvBsQR4+pntddJeFprIbyuQOZBk3KiFDPoIZCoDU3kvj6S xeRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XzFh8fPhMlfn+pH2vJ7YFScZVEKKxs3G/NuadCBuLLM=; b=C+BdlR8NaYgzC6jvEVwyWZS4UOfKLUO2KYCx1FNuOmZa9cOATl27DM68DlcHGwbrnq q3VyFS+Uah77sJLSgPWSIExt8RgVm/laOo8MtG/6yuUcqjt0zs9I+cgHLoojYU9AhBOF 5jIMwre57N47c6VeAq4FkE9CitPSX2IxrmZKu/DCEfdd/5enLlPtvhWUUhY6NdJiQd+o s8kE0Yj/050XS+UMuxK8YIiGN7SU2L0TsZm9XsVIa5a56ROQTX6V8855Lq+HlLR17spN iqREki83JVZKNE3qZ5Nh7T8N9qpeWEMq3f5T3qUyxfaZnQvcXd/aaVvqAtba+xkhys9x cqcw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWaYfz/osLl7FEvKvLErrhocYAZAYu6ncFuYs5uR4RpGiDUKThsn Rh8kBorj4UPnrzfMJ5jhTcKm2rmSmUaPGKv1ZsHuEw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5dntBIFVqD29/8wyOCDHdgQ3MK30H4SRa2V79N5jut9n1RzTuo5wkRXOBL+Lg/R20W2ngu8++uwuJoH7xGNPU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9a84:: with SMTP id p4-v6mr33041784lji.73.1546870140606; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 06:09:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eric Rescorla Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:08:23 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003eaceb057edec572" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 14:09:09 -0000 --0000000000003eaceb057edec572 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:09 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > In this reply I will address the COMMENT issues: > > > >This document is very badly in need of editorial work for readability. > >I would urge the responsible AD to make one. > > I have done quite a bit of editorial work based on WGLC/AD comments etc. I > am happy to improve it even further, but someone needs to guide me what to > do. > Ben? > S 1. > >> used to wake such applications, nor will incoming network traffic > >> wake the application. Instead, one way to wake the application is > by > >> using a Push Notification Service (PNS). Typically each operating > >> system uses a dedicated PNS. For example, Apple iOS devices use > the > >> Apple Push Notification service (APNs) while Android devices use > the > >> Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) service. > > > >What is a Push Notification Service? I mean, I know, but you need to > >say. > > I will add some text/reference about that. > > --- > > S 1. > >> will request push notifications towards the UA. > >> > >> When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog or a stand- > >> alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy > >> determines that the UA needs to send a binding-refresh REGISTER > >> request, the proxy will request a push notification towards the UA, > > > > "request ... towards" is ungrammatical > > Is "request a push notification to be sent towards the UA" better? > I would say "request that a push notification be sent to" > > S 1. > >> |<---------------------| | > >> | | | > >> | SIP REGISTER (Push Resource ID) | > >> |===============================================>| > >> | | | SIP > REGISTER > >> | | > |============> > > > >These arrows don't seem to go anywhere. I think you need to label the > >registrar. > > Ok, I will label the "registrar/home proxy" (I don't think we need to > separate them). > Sure. > --- > > S 4.1. > >> > >> NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP UA are outside the > >> scope of this document. > >> > >> When the UA receives a push notification, it MUST send a binding- > >> refresh REGISTER request, using normal SIP procedures. If there > are > > > >This seems unnecessarily restrictive. Are we never going to want any > >other kind of push notification? > > Well, in order for this mechanism to work, it has to be a MUST, and the > procedures obviously only applies to UAs that use the SIP push mechanism. > Yeah, this seems like a pretty major architectural flaw in this design, tbh, one that is remedied by just using RFC 8030-style notifications that contain content. --0000000000003eaceb057edec572 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:09 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com= > wrote:

Hi,


In this reply I will address = the COMMENT issues:


>This document is ve= ry badly in need of editorial work for readability.
>I would urge the responsible AD to make one.

I have done quite a bit= of editorial work based on WGLC/AD comments etc. I am happy to improve it = even further, but someone needs to guide me what to do.=C2=A0

Ben?

=

S 1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 used to wake such applications, nor = will incoming network traffic
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 wake the application.=C2=A0 Instead,= one way to wake the application is by
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 using a Push Notification Service (P= NS).=C2=A0 Typically each operating
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 system uses a dedicated PNS.=C2=A0 F= or example, Apple iOS devices use the
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Apple Push Notification service (APN= s) while Android devices use the
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Firebase Cloud Messaging (FCM) servi= ce.
>
>What is a Push Notification Service? I mean, I know, but you need to >say.

I will add some text/re= ference about that.

---

S 1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 will request push notifications towa= rds the UA.
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 When the proxy receives a SIP request for a ne= w dialog or a stand-
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or w= hen the proxy
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 determines that the UA needs to send a binding= -refresh REGISTER
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 request, the proxy will request a push notific= ation towards the UA,
>
> "request ... towards" is ungrammatical

Is "request a push= notification to be sent towards the UA" better?

I would say &quo= t;request that a push notification be sent to"

S 1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = |<---------------------|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SIP REGISTER (Push = Resource ID)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>|<= br> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | SIP REGISTER
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>
>
>These arrows don't seem to go anywhere. I think you need to label t= he
>registrar.

Ok, I will label the &q= uot;registrar/home proxy" (I don't think we need to separate them)= .

Sure.


---

S 4.1.
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP= UA are outside the
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 scope of this document.
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 When the UA receives a push notification, it M= UST send a binding-
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 refresh REGISTER request, using normal SIP pro= cedures.=C2=A0 If there are
>
>This seems unnecessarily restrictive. Are we never going to want any >other kind of push notification?

Well, in order for this= mechanism to work, it has to be a MUST, and the procedures obviously only = applies to UAs that use the SIP push mechanism.

Yeah, this seems like a pr= etty major architectural flaw in this design, tbh, one that is remedied by = just using RFC 8030-style notifications that contain content.


--0000000000003eaceb057edec572-- From nobody Mon Jan 7 06:16:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6506130EA8 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:15:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dlwSc3oW7dG8 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:15:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4302130E99 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id y11so386222lfj.4 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 06:15:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ydahlqBHWFHxC15+FsJFqYOQZhLo50Hfj6Dcot9J4SU=; b=tgJQe+1WeSOteuKJvOMLZvSjH8L6lPyed9qIn2pCMKyAiPfKsVljSibww2FxT+Fwr1 KiUUswfmwdZRdwRslkjpw8I0618gC/v9kzuZRC4khBzwwdulvBJo3d2+mJFhb9qiSGHy I5RGFSUaMwGM8OyJZGWxEzhTJJPfRkF017xydRoUpSKpV9+LNQFXGCHXDi64u5d8CJDH etSgLH73dig5i/Lu0cUx4BaEMFoXwsRibVY40x8U8sn43x7/PHFDuL2JCCdFYzA5kn8a 3+xwjqQaNFXhmieg+PHUp765CMsJUBdIZ4nxv/ZgwS1kRrpPErZcNXS7SArtjIpBs3BQ Yudg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ydahlqBHWFHxC15+FsJFqYOQZhLo50Hfj6Dcot9J4SU=; b=VnDROmH0mRzvDX++OkIl8j3rYHY/bo6yZSx2iO5OQ+SsZjfjUBqs5nxkAKlwQzs3Lg mdt3/JIg02E2eUmWY72CdgzFfdHfkbpnAbQMjq9SzvHlvhW4ee4FPV2x96Qh7kVgPo2o yPTXUfOnbZK7kgQmuiH2DngD+y7gYtUxi2q4/L2735i3UNMkCBs6szwDUA5p2cn9HANt rLN94H9nNDRrJsv+214HQ7ZsBY3IH7Y9s7Ei2mvnwayPQjF8jSf86+0UcDGRdDz6Ozs+ qusQZlvGRnJV8ahXHSfDsFxciBXmOA7znM6qztPKpT+FjWHLYSUU9WdEADfOhw7UYyjY m35A== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYAD03+dRempqszmjDTm16YR0dZcoQXu3Y4MccVJPNRndPWfHyl 1JB/inQCTBET/Hr3ybVPxtvhiQUSZCFIBuLVChokXg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WESKqjKLe/afJKjgKBcYbp6ztwT9xudVGbqJqN5rBLGlO/cYP5hb9mSgNiGJgWSVkHlVSSBdpHGELITU22sJ0= X-Received: by 2002:a19:a9d2:: with SMTP id s201mr29181242lfe.154.1546870550877; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 06:15:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eric Rescorla Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 06:15:13 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b2ecdd057ededd78" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 14:15:58 -0000 --000000000000b2ecdd057ededd78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:09 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > S 4.1. > >> capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-registration > >> REGISTER request when it receives a push notification (even if the > UA > >> is able to use a non-push mechanism for sending re-registration > >> REGISTER requests), or when there are circumstances (e.g., if the > UA > >> is assigned new contact parameters due to a network configuration > >> change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. > > > >This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't > >contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send regular > >REGISTERs > > The text is about "sip.pnsreq". > Yes, but it's not phrased as being conditional on that other condition (see previous comments about writing style). --- > > S 4.1. > >> change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. > >> > >> NOTE: If the UA uses a non-push mechanism to wake and send a > binding > >> refresh REGISTER request, such REGISTER request will update the > >> binding expiration timer, and the proxy does not need to request a > >> push notification towards the UA in order to wake the UA. The > proxy > > > >This doesn't seem obviously correct. Why is this so? > > As the UA will use other (non-push) mechanisms to wake up for updating the > binding expiration timer, there is no need to use push notifications for > that. > All right. > --- > > S 4.1. > >> REGISTER request. > >> > >> If the UA no longer wants to receive push notifications (requested > by > >> the proxy), the UA MUST send a binding-refresh REGISTER request > >> without including the SIP URI parameters described above, or the UA > >> MUST remove the registration. > > > >This seems pretty hard to conform with, given that mobile applications > >are often just shut down with no warning. > > On shut down, I believe mobile applications are typically moved in to a > state where they are still able to perform some actions. > It's not reliable. Sometimes you get that, sometimes you don't. Anyway, the text applies to situations where the UA is able to perform > actions. > > So, perhaps clarifying that with: > > "the UA MUST (unless it is no longer able to perform SIP procedures, e.g., > due to a forced shutdown) send a" > This doesn't seem much like a MUST. --- > > S 4.1. > >> document. > >> > >> For privacy and security reasons, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP > URI > >> parameters defined in this document in non-REGISTER request, to > >> prevent the PNS information associated with the UA from reaching > the > >> remote peer. For example, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI > > > >For non-SIP experts, why is this not an issue with REGISTER? > > The REGISTER will only reach your registrar, it will not be forwarded to > the remote peer. > Please say so. > > S 5.2. > >> If the UA has indicated, using the 'sip.pnsreg' media feature tag, > >> that it is able to wake using a non-push mechanism for sending > >> binding-refresh REGISTER requests, if the proxy does not receive a > >> REGISTER request prior to 120 seconds before the registration > >> expires, the proxy MAY request a push notification towards the UA, > to > >> trigger the UA to send a REGISTER request. > > > >This paragraph needs to be rewritten in some way that is not so > >conditional dense. > > There are only two conditions, aren't there? > No. When a proxy receives: If the proxy considers If the proxy considers Similarly, when the proxy receives [not sure about the indent on this one...] > --- > > S 5.2. > >> UA expects to receive push notifications from the network. A proxy > >> will not request push notifications towards a UA that has not > >> provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter. > >> > >> If the proxy receives information that a registration has expired, > >> the proxy MUST NOT request further push notifications towards the > UA. > > > > Again, how would it receive such information? > > E.g., using RFC 3680 - or some other mechanism. As different networks and > architectures might use different mechanisms for updating its nodes about > the registration status, we don't want to mandate a specific mechanism. > You need to say something here about how that's out of scope. Otherwise, people just go hunting through the text for it. > S 5.3.1. > >> registrar too short, the proxy MUST NOT insert a Feature-Caps > header > >> field with a 'sip.pns' feature-capability indicator in the > response, > >> and the proxy MUST NOT request push notifications associated with > the > >> registration. A registration expiration interval MUST be > considered > >> too short if the interval is smaller than the time prior to > >> expiration that the proxy would request a push notification. The > > > >What does this text mean? > > If the registration interval is considered too short, a proxy will not > enable SIP push. > > For example, assume a proxy would send a push notification 30 seconds > prior to registration expirations. > > Now, if the registration expiration interval is only 20 seconds, it would > not work. > > I don't think this will ever happen in real life, but people wanted this > text. > OK, but it should be rewritten so it's clear. > --- > > S 5.3.2. > >> > >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is > >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER > >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification > >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and > 2xx > >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the > UA. > > > >Why not race these? > > One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated. > The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA is awake. > > S 6.1.1. > >> triggered by incoming mid-dialog requests is done based on local > >> policy. Such policy might be based on the type of SIP dialog, the > >> type of media (if any) negotiated for the dialog [RFC3264], etc. > >> > >> NOTE: As the 'pn-purr' SIP URI parameter only applies to a give > >> dialog, the UA needs to include a 'pn-purr' parameter in the > Contact > > > > "to a given" dialog? > > Correct. Will fix. > > --- > > S 6.2.1. > >> 6.2.1. REGISTER > >> > >> When the proxy receives an initial REGISTER request for a > >> registration from the UA, if the proxy supports requesting push > >> notifications, triggered by mid-dialog requests, towards the > >> registered UA, the proxy MUST store the information (the pn- SIP > URI > > > > Too many commas here to make sense of this requirement > > I'll see what I can do to fix that. > > --- > > S 10. > >> by two values, separated by a period (.): Team ID and Topic. The > >> Team ID is provided by Apple and is unique to a development team. > >> The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an > >> appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service > >> associated with the application, separated by a period (.). For > VoIP > >> applications the service value is "voip". > > > > What is the syntax of these params? > > The details can be found in the PNS specific documentation. > These do not appear to be normative references. I at least need to know enough about the structure to know what to expect. -Ekr > --- > > S 11. > >> The value of the pn-provider URI parameter is "fcm". > >> > >> The value of the pn-param URI parameter is the Project ID. > >> > >> The value of the pn-prid URI parameter is the Registration token, > >> which is generated by the FCM SDK for each client app instance. > > > > Again, what is the syntax of this? > > Same as above. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > --000000000000b2ecdd057ededd78 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 5:09 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com= > wrote:

S 4.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 capability indicator, the UA SHOULD = only send a re-registration
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 REGISTER request when it receives a push notif= ication (even if the UA
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 is able to use a non-push mechanism for sendin= g re-registration
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 REGISTER requests), or when there are circumst= ances (e.g., if the UA
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 is assigned new contact parameters due to a ne= twork configuration
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 change) that require an immediate REGISTER req= uest to be sent.
>
>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't=
>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send = regular
>REGISTERs

The text is about "= ;sip.pnsreq".

Yes, but it's not phrased as being conditional = on that other condition (see previous comments about writing style).
<= div>
---

S 4.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 change) that require an immediate RE= GISTER request to be sent.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 NOTE: If the UA uses a non-push mech= anism to wake and send a binding
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 refresh REGISTER request, such REGIS= TER request will update the
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 binding expiration timer, and the pr= oxy does not need to request a
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 push notification towards the UA in = order to wake the UA.=C2=A0 The proxy
>
>This doesn't seem obviously correct. Why is this so?

As the UA will use othe= r (non-push) mechanisms to wake up for updating the binding expiration time= r, there is no need to use push notifications for that.

All right.

=

---

S 4.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 REGISTER request.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the UA no longer wants to receive= push notifications (requested by
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the proxy), the UA MUST send a bindi= ng-refresh REGISTER request
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 without including the SIP URI parame= ters described above, or the UA
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 MUST remove the registration.
>
>This seems pretty hard to conform with, given that mobile applications<= br> >are often just shut down with no warning.

On shut down, I believe= mobile applications are typically moved in to a state where they are still= able to perform some actions.
<= /blockquote>

It's not reliable. Sometimes you get th= at, sometimes you don't.


<= font size=3D"2">
Anyway, the text applie= s to situations where the UA is able to perform actions.

So, perhaps clarifying = that with:

"the UA MUST (unless it is no longer able to perform SIP procedures, e.g., due = to a forced shutdown) send a"=C2=A0

This= doesn't seem much like a MUST.

---

S 4.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 document.
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 For privacy and security reasons, th= e UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 parameters defined in this document = in non-REGISTER request, to
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 prevent the PNS information associat= ed with the UA from reaching the
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 remote peer.=C2=A0 For example, the = UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI
>
>For non-SIP experts, why is this not an issue with REGISTER?

The REGISTER will only = reach your registrar, it will not be forwarded to the remote peer.

Ple= ase say so.

=


S 5.2.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the UA has indicated, using the &= #39;sip.pnsreg' media feature tag,
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 that it is able to wake using a non-= push mechanism for sending
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 binding-refresh REGISTER requests, i= f the proxy does not receive a
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 REGISTER request prior to 120 second= s before the registration
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 expires, the proxy MAY request a pus= h notification towards the UA, to
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 trigger the UA to send a REGISTER re= quest.
>
>This paragraph needs to be rewritten in some way that is not so
>conditional dense.

There are only two cond= itions, aren't there?

No.

When a proxy receiv= es:
=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the proxy considers
=C2=A0=C2=A0 If= the proxy considers
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Similarly, when the proxy recei= ves [not sure about the indent on this one...]

<= div id=3D"gmail-m_1716769398163143885divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-si= ze:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" dir=3D"l= tr">

---

S 5.2.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 UA expects to receive push notificat= ions from the network.=C2=A0 A proxy
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 will not request push notifications towards a = UA that has not
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter.
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 If the proxy receives information that a regis= tration has expired,
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 the proxy MUST NOT request further push notifi= cations towards the UA.
>
> Again, how would it receive such information?

E.g., using RFC 3680 - = or some other mechanism. As different networks and architectures might use = different mechanisms for updating its nodes about the registration status, = we don't want to mandate a specific mechanism.
<= /div>

You need to say som= ething here about how that's out of scope. Otherwise, people just go hu= nting through the text for it.

=C2=A0
S 5.3.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 registrar too short, the proxy MUST = NOT insert a Feature-Caps header
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 field with a 'sip.pns' feature-capabil= ity indicator in the response,
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and the proxy MUST NOT request push = notifications associated with the
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 registration.=C2=A0 A registration e= xpiration interval MUST be considered
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 too short if the interval is smaller= than the time prior to
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 expiration that the proxy would requ= est a push notification.=C2=A0 The
>
>What does this text mean?

If the registration int= erval is considered too short, a proxy will not enable SIP push.=C2=A0

For example, assume a p= roxy would send a push notification 30 seconds prior to registration expira= tions.

Now, if the registratio= n expiration interval is only 20 seconds, it would not work.

I don't think this = will ever happen in real life, but people wanted this text.

OK, but it sho= uld be rewritten so it's clear.


---

S 5.3.2.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the proxy has knowledge that the = UA is awake, and that the UA is
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 able to receive the SIP request with= out first sending a REGISTER
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 request, the proxy MAY choose to not= request a push notification
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 towards the UA (and wait for the ass= ociated REGISTER request and 2xx
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 response) before it tries to forward= the SIP request towards the UA.
>
>Why not race these?

One could do that, but = I don't think it should be mandated.

The current text prohibits ra= cing if you *don't* know that the UA is awake.



S 6.1.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 triggered by incoming mid-dialog req= uests is done based on local
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 policy.=C2=A0 Such policy might be b= ased on the type of SIP dialog, the
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 type of media (if any) negotiated for the dial= og [RFC3264], etc.
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 NOTE: As the 'pn-purr' SIP URI paramet= er only applies to a give
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 dialog, the UA needs to include a 'pn-purr= ' parameter in the Contact
>
> "to a given" dialog?

Correct. Will fix.

---

S 6.2.1.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0 6.2.1.=C2=A0 REGISTER
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 When the proxy receives an initial REGISTER re= quest for a
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 registration from the UA, if the proxy support= s requesting push
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 notifications, triggered by mid-dialog request= s, towards the
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 registered UA, the proxy MUST store the inform= ation (the pn- SIP URI
>
> Too many commas here to make sense of this requirement

I'll see what I can= do to fix that.

---

S 10.
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 by two values, separated by a period (.): Team= ID and Topic.=C2=A0 The
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Team ID is provided by Apple and is = unique to a development team.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Topic consists of the Bundle ID,= which uniquelly identifies an
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 appliciation, and a service value th= at identifies a service
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 associated with the application, sep= arated by a period (.).=C2=A0 For VoIP
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 applications the service value is &q= uot;voip".
>
> What is the syntax of these params?

The details can be found in the PNS specific documentation.

These do= not appear to be normative references. I at least need to know enough abou= t the structure to know what to expect.

-Ekr
=

=

---

S 11.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The value of the pn-provider URI par= ameter is "fcm".
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 The value of the pn-param URI parameter is the= Project ID.
>> =C2=A0=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 The value of the pn-prid URI parameter is the = Registration token,
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 which is generated by the FCM SDK for each cli= ent app instance.
>
> Again, what is the syntax of this?

Same as above.

Regards,

Christer




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Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:04:12 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Eric Rescorla CC: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues Thread-Index: AQHUpooqG3YCjm9ykU+uaZuG6gI9dKWj19KAgABDtkw= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:04:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB3178; 6:KgzEmKPgiwVLUti0eMu0AlafL0yKQcKjOUYrmodnHJOdbqvA7mDU30AZdE/fRA0qtpj4tOzPWVXi+xL7iFOM2+9Bkmz2lb3s3c8xFXkYX4c/d7RwzS2GiQvWo34tIi9cilme3JlO6+Ur31zjvkQqizOAdJPWMNHI9uzJxr6x/nPwlBR5KuzzoturbLTO3pPXRcgu0jgvFA/r6A9F4Q6IOXjItdk3uTSkTjKO0MRxZ5tNN2nKZyvAC1reJ5aqR97hDdvCgW4fxi2aGiEwO7WZnB/Lwvb5eFx/PWP3lWb8Zn8rFXiboezQv2D8JNlb0k7o2FB+JflOmJcAejAq637xbdH2SpTS7jNIU84enEqVK8AcVvjIjKtdb7vTxdwo8uw555w0w0MxN4E5zKalp9ItWhlG33cRLLEkPPj1LmsLPrcdCDF8B+FeMhwiymDJg/XUJExz7ppQdh6eNoEe6111xg==; 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boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB31618B1CE0907B10CB8E1C5393890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cac27311-954d-4c3e-b258-08d674d2e963 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Jan 2019 19:04:12.5381 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3178 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SaUhUURTHu++9efMUB67jdrISG4PCfQmaJKQ+RH4oKD9Y1FCN+dDBcZQZ 0zQIFzJyygWX1CS3wXLJzEpFDU3F7UNuCGWWDjqkmWWZmjpKztwJ/PY75/z+nHvgcrS4R+DM KVRxvFolV0pYa6boUnOC16uKAJlv1pqN1DBVwEpTl2sp6bOF90JpoTGHlj5cLqelK38b2ZNs 8NTqljBYp1ungnNn0unz9GXrE+G8UhHPq32CrltHbkyMCmNfHLv1XBuWjEp9MpAVB/goGJqG qQxkzYlxD4Ih4zeaFCsIxjPSWFJUUtBblG7WGJxNw9vCBoZMciiYrG2waHoEP79s72gcx2Ip aLc9TEvssStsGPvNARqvIqjS1gtNAzucCG119xGRkqCvo0RAOBBaPjazJmbwIdBNdDMmFmEZ bGn1iCwzIKge1JvDVvgCtI2MmcMIO8LaYB1lYho7wcRsKUVOxaBrH6IJO8D8zLbFl0NHzbSl 7wp5yQMs4QMwWqo1LwOcKoRHRR0CMvCCpfx8S+AcfN98SRNpGEFx62/WdD5gd8icvEOcKOjt qxASZ4SGzvUMS3g/VH7WUtnIp3jXYwnHwEBRiqDYfLXtDs8ypO8NH/LzWMIeUFW+QBP2gsLt LmZ3vwwJa5CDhteERUf4+3vzasUNjSZG5a3i4xrRzt9693rTtwXNfz3VhTCHJDai9rwAmVgg j9ckRnch4GiJvUhp8JOJReHyxCReHXNNfVPJa7rQPo6ROImMYluZGEfI4/gono/l1f+nFGfl nIxOlyw+MOQE6mevtnZmunFnf1lBvUo35vJ4zxXH6YKLytg3W4eR8rgkdHZu6d7epR9ntL4d BrcevcKzcmvD1XM83s7fYUBcn5J18G5coN0n56Aji7flNaEhiuSEsqk0n791TeEFDk2jf1rC 5tpsWWX107on3X39Lv7TuTajK/xSiITRRMr93Gm1Rv4PDyF9o1cDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 19:04:26 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB31618B1CE0907B10CB8E1C5393890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, S 1. >> will request push notifications towards the UA. >> >> When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog or a stand- >> alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy >> determines that the UA needs to send a binding-refresh REGISTER >> request, the proxy will request a push notification towards the UA, > > "request ... towards" is ungrammatical Is "request a push notification to be sent towards the UA" better? >I would say "request that a push notification be sent to" Ok. ... S 4.1. >> >> NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP UA are outside the >> scope of this document. >> >> When the UA receives a push notification, it MUST send a binding- >> refresh REGISTER request, using normal SIP procedures. If there ar= e > >This seems unnecessarily restrictive. Are we never going to want any >other kind of push notification? Well, in order for this mechanism to work, it has to be a MUST, and the pro= cedures obviously only applies to UAs that use the SIP push mechanism. >Yeah, this seems like a pretty major architectural flaw in this design, tb= h, one that is >remedied by just using RFC 8030-style notifications that contain content. Other push notification services support content too, but we decided that w= e are not going to specify that for SIP push. IF there comes a future case, where multiple SIP usages of push notificatio= ns have to co-exist, we can define usage of content (and e.g., define that = SIP push is default). Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31618B1CE0907B10CB8E1C5393890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 1.
>>      will request push notifications towa= rds the UA.
>>   
>>      When the proxy receives a SIP request for a ne= w dialog or a stand-
>>      alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or w= hen the proxy
>>      determines that the UA needs to send a binding= -refresh REGISTER
>>      request, the proxy will request a push notific= ation towards the UA,
>
> "request ... towards" is ungrammatical

Is "request a pu= sh notification to be sent towards the UA" better?

>I would say "request that a push notification be sent to"= ; 

Ok.

...

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 4.1.
>>   
>>      NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP= UA are outside the
>>      scope of this document.
>>   
>>      When the UA receives a push notification, it M= UST send a binding-
>>      refresh REGISTER request, using normal SIP pro= cedures.  If there are
>
>This seems unnecessarily restrictive. Are we never going to want any >other kind of push notification?

Well, in order for th= is mechanism to work, it has to be a MUST, and the procedures obviously onl= y applies to UAs that use the SIP push mechanism.

>Yeah, this seems like a pretty major architectural flaw in this de= sign, tbh, one that is 
>remedied by just using RFC 8030-style notifications that contain c= ontent.

Other push notification services support content too, but we decided t= hat we are not going to specify that for SIP push.

IF there comes a future case, where multiple SIP usages of push notifi= cations have to co-exist, we can define usage of content (and e.g., define = that SIP push is default).

Regards,

Christer


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Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:43:48 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1516.010; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:43:48 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Eric Rescorla CC: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues - part 2 Thread-Index: AQHUpsFObT/3pcQJRUyM7wBcZrMUng== Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:43:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, S 4.1. >> capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-registration >> REGISTER request when it receives a push notification (even if the = UA >> is able to use a non-push mechanism for sending re-registration >> REGISTER requests), or when there are circumstances (e.g., if the U= A >> is assigned new contact parameters due to a network configuration >> change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. > >This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't >contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send regular >REGISTERs The text is about "sip.pnsreq". >Yes, but it's not phrased as being conditional on that other condition (se= e previous comments >about writing style). Ok. --- S 4.1. >> REGISTER request. >> >> If the UA no longer wants to receive push notifications (requested = by >> the proxy), the UA MUST send a binding-refresh REGISTER request >> without including the SIP URI parameters described above, or the UA >> MUST remove the registration. > >This seems pretty hard to conform with, given that mobile applications >are often just shut down with no warning. On shut down, I believe mobile applications are typically moved in to a sta= te where they are still able to perform some actions. >It's not reliable. Sometimes you get that, sometimes you don't. Anyway, the text applies to situations where the UA is able to perform acti= ons. So, perhaps clarifying that with: "the UA MUST (unless it is no longer able to perform SIP procedures, e.g., = due to a forced shutdown) send a" >This doesn't seem much like a MUST. SHOULD? --- S 4.1. >> document. >> >> For privacy and security reasons, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP U= RI >> parameters defined in this document in non-REGISTER request, to >> prevent the PNS information associated with the UA from reaching th= e >> remote peer. For example, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI > >For non-SIP experts, why is this not an issue with REGISTER? The REGISTER will only reach your registrar, it will not be forwarded to th= e remote peer. >Please say so. Ok. --- S 5.2. >> If the UA has indicated, using the 'sip.pnsreg' media feature tag, >> that it is able to wake using a non-push mechanism for sending >> binding-refresh REGISTER requests, if the proxy does not receive a >> REGISTER request prior to 120 seconds before the registration >> expires, the proxy MAY request a push notification towards the UA, = to >> trigger the UA to send a REGISTER request. > >This paragraph needs to be rewritten in some way that is not so >conditional dense. There are only two conditions, aren't there? >No. > >When a proxy receives: > If the proxy considers > If the proxy considers > Similarly, when the proxy receives [not sure about the indent on this o= ne...] Ok, I will have a look. --- S 5.2. >> UA expects to receive push notifications from the network. A proxy >> will not request push notifications towards a UA that has not >> provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter. >> >> If the proxy receives information that a registration has expired, >> the proxy MUST NOT request further push notifications towards the U= A. > > Again, how would it receive such information? E.g., using RFC 3680 - or some other mechanism. As different networks and a= rchitectures might use different mechanisms for updating its nodes about th= e registration status, we don't want to mandate a specific mechanism. >You need to say something here about how that's out of scope. Otherwise, p= eople just >go hunting through the text for it. The first paragraph of section 5.2 does say it is out of scope. --- S 5.3.1. >> registrar too short, the proxy MUST NOT insert a Feature-Caps heade= r >> field with a 'sip.pns' feature-capability indicator in the response= , >> and the proxy MUST NOT request push notifications associated with t= he >> registration. A registration expiration interval MUST be considere= d >> too short if the interval is smaller than the time prior to >> expiration that the proxy would request a push notification. The > >What does this text mean? If the registration interval is considered too short, a proxy will not enab= le SIP push. For example, assume a proxy would send a push notification 30 seconds prior= to registration expirations. Now, if the registration expiration interval is only 20 seconds, it would n= ot work. I don't think this will ever happen in real life, but people wanted this te= xt. >OK, but it should be rewritten so it's clear. I will see what I can do. --- S 5.3.2. >> >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and 2x= x >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the UA= . > >Why not race these? One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated. The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA is awake. --- S 10. >> by two values, separated by a period (.): Team ID and Topic. The >> Team ID is provided by Apple and is unique to a development team. >> The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an >> appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service >> associated with the application, separated by a period (.). For Vo= IP >> applications the service value is "voip". > > What is the syntax of these params? The details can be found in the PNS specific documentation. >These do not appear to be normative references. I at least need to know en= ough about >the structure to know what to expect. There was another sec-dir/gen-art comment asking to add the web links to th= e reference section. I will to that, but I have not yet found the XML way of doing it. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161A0F37182BC9AEF1BB4DC93890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 4.1.
>>      capability indicator, the UA SHOULD = only send a re-registration
>>      REGISTER request when it receives a push notif= ication (even if the UA
>>      is able to use a non-push mechanism for sendin= g re-registration
>>      REGISTER requests), or when there are circumst= ances (e.g., if the UA
>>      is assigned new contact parameters due to a ne= twork configuration
>>      change) that require an immediate REGISTER req= uest to be sent.
>
>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't
>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send = regular
>REGISTERs

The text is about &qu= ot;sip.pnsreq".

>Yes, but it's not phrased as being conditional on that other condi= tion (see previous comments 
>about writing style).

Ok.

---

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 4.1.
>>      REGISTER request.
>>  
>>      If the UA no longer wants to receive= push notifications (requested by
>>      the proxy), the UA MUST send a bindi= ng-refresh REGISTER request
>>      without including the SIP URI parame= ters described above, or the UA
>>      MUST remove the registration.
>
>This seems pretty hard to conform with, given that mobile applications<= br> >are often just shut down with no warning.

On shut down, I belie= ve mobile applications are typically moved in to a state where they are sti= ll able to perform some actions.

>It's not reliable. Sometimes you get that, sometimes you don't.

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
Anyway, the text appl= ies to situations where the UA is able to perform actions.

So, perhaps clarifyin= g that with:

"the UA MUST (unless it is no longer able to perform SIP procedures, e.g., due = to a forced shutdown) send a" 

>This doesn't seem much like a MUST.

SHOULD?

---

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 4.1.
>>      document.
>>   
>>      For privacy and security reasons, th= e UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI
>>      parameters defined in this document = in non-REGISTER request, to
>>      prevent the PNS information associat= ed with the UA from reaching the
>>      remote peer.  For example, the = UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI
>
>For non-SIP experts, why is this not an issue with REGISTER?

The REGISTER will onl= y reach your registrar, it will not be forwarded to the remote peer.

>Please say so.

Ok.

---

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 5.2.
>>      If the UA has indicated, using the '= sip.pnsreg' media feature tag,
>>      that it is able to wake using a non-= push mechanism for sending
>>      binding-refresh REGISTER requests, i= f the proxy does not receive a
>>      REGISTER request prior to 120 second= s before the registration
>>      expires, the proxy MAY request a pus= h notification towards the UA, to
>>      trigger the UA to send a REGISTER re= quest.
>
>This paragraph needs to be rewritten in some way that is not so
>conditional dense.

There are only two co= nditions, aren't there?

>No.
>
>When a proxy receives:
>   If the proxy considers
>   If the proxy considers
>   Similarly, when the proxy receives [not sure about the ind= ent on this one...]

Ok, I will have a look.

---

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 5.2.
>>      UA expects to receive push notificat= ions from the network.  A proxy
>>      will not request push notifications towards a = UA that has not
>>      provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter.
>>   
>>      If the proxy receives information that a regis= tration has expired,
>>      the proxy MUST NOT request further push notifi= cations towards the UA.
>
> Again, how would it receive such information?

E.g., using RFC 3680 = - or some other mechanism. As different networks and architectures might us= e different mechanisms for updating its nodes about the registration status= , we don't want to mandate a specific mechanism.

>You need to say something here about how that's out of scope. Othe= rwise, people just 
>go hunting through the text for it.

The first paragraph of section 5.2 does say it is out of scope.

---
 
<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 5.3.1.
>>      registrar too short, the proxy MUST = NOT insert a Feature-Caps header
>>      field with a 'sip.pns' feature-capability indi= cator in the response,
>>      and the proxy MUST NOT request push = notifications associated with the
>>      registration.  A registration e= xpiration interval MUST be considered
>>      too short if the interval is smaller= than the time prior to
>>      expiration that the proxy would requ= est a push notification.  The
>
>What does this text mean?

If the registration i= nterval is considered too short, a proxy will not enable SIP push. 

For example, assume a= proxy would send a push notification 30 seconds prior to registration expi= rations.

Now, if the registrat= ion expiration interval is only 20 seconds, it would not work.

I don't think this wi= ll ever happen in real life, but people wanted this text.

>OK, but it should be rewritten so it's clear.

I will see what I can do.

---

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 5.3.2.
>>  
>>      If the proxy has knowledge that the = UA is awake, and that the UA is
>>      able to receive the SIP request with= out first sending a REGISTER
>>      request, the proxy MAY choose to not= request a push notification
>>      towards the UA (and wait for the ass= ociated REGISTER request and 2xx
>>      response) before it tries to forward= the SIP request towards the UA.
>
>Why not race these?

One could do that, bu= t I don't think it should be mandated.

The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA is a= wake.

---

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 10.
>>      by two values, separated by a period (.): Team= ID and Topic.  The
>>      Team ID is provided by Apple and is = unique to a development team.
>>      The Topic consists of the Bundle ID,= which uniquelly identifies an
>>      appliciation, and a service value th= at identifies a service
>>      associated with the application, sep= arated by a period (.).  For VoIP
>>      applications the service value is &q= uot;voip".
>
> What is the syntax of these params?

The details can be fo= und in the PNS specific documentation.

>These do not appear to be normative references. I at least need to= know enough about 
>the structure to know what to expect.

There was another sec-dir/gen-art comment asking to add the web links = to the reference section.

I will to that, but I have not yet found the XML way of doing it.

Regards,

Christer

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Seems like I skipped one issue in my previous reply. S 5.3.2. >> >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and 2x= x >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the UA= . > >Why not race these? One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated. >The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA is awake= . The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP reque= sts before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER etc. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31611682A1DA90ADBC1E620D93890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Seems like I skipped one issue in= my previous reply.


<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
S 5.3.2.
>>  
>>      If the proxy has knowledge that the = UA is awake, and that the UA is
>>      able to receive the SIP request with= out first sending a REGISTER
>>      request, the proxy MAY choose to not= request a push notification
>>      towards the UA (and wait for the ass= ociated REGISTER request and 2xx
>>      response) before it tries to forward= the SIP request towards the UA.
>
>Why not race these?

One could do that, bu= t I don't think it should be mandated.

>The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA = is awake.

The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP = requests before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER et= c.

Regards,

Christer



<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
--_000_HE1PR07MB31611682A1DA90ADBC1E620D93890HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Mon Jan 7 14:08:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA88E12E04D for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 14:08:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R7YtdD0FICI1 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 14:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB4A512E036 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 14:08:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id p6so1491797lfc.1 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 14:08:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=msBT2HY6aQ3I6oFR5WQOrFi3paE84NhrLitLQEcfCGA=; b=fYD9pgLDotua/+w1uf8WiExOZ0uLJ1BQ4iDaWteQ3Ri942Dzk+zVNGhUcrX6ogRt0A sJIUow2nvahJxp7z/GIFWECuHhOB6pui7xENevBlJx2YKqt7COR7+Mtx0QHs/RszkBE7 fFU1JJuh2W+ZOTo8+UyE05NfTC/kd52Re9Hs4103/PF/faSbDQlrQkBzLXtJoxdi++Az xKUwBUhFeeeYkiPZCydGi33Gwy11zU6WTFwP5YVrSKJpZuQRQoyGNjmX+WSr+cvweGBj sfAv4yKzIqYTTkfGwou1DQWhjgkrkdIV90zeKP3qH9l048vGsjdtf8mZAKjUoJErPThR 7MuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=msBT2HY6aQ3I6oFR5WQOrFi3paE84NhrLitLQEcfCGA=; b=cXNz/3TMufIAKud9+KdRQ3ks3buxzOqZohhfOVPPLhZWwJalqq8tI08DUxyp3mRp9y EvW/wq1BMRASrq8+zoKLBmFuil1nGR2AgDa/UFjLB7/Lu0GR8CQV78CAMhYRMRFI5in0 H/qeFxl9DNaBfN4WQY/L+HxX+ujIixFaTf9Ov4GQlht1mCVsIPhmsNA2l966sF05S6eh A+PeYidghZZwJYcPFbZj+6HyJ+rBB0yXOebUP9qkAGpoVRfhotH8ZFgCszfpSvNqKPY1 V/NAYdgbomteafTXY0YxfreXE3zjsJKStgP05wZp6r2d10f/Ff9SgctgFvdpactnQHMz uiHg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWayvM+k2eTnM9ZxlfTA4QCmAp4d6WpBR1XY7jzMBx+0paCA9hoK 94VaisCDEIGvIR0uKJTWBFtSBYvWhTWamGXftDw/tg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XdeOu3/QlFuJ5/7NkCf7wcxzoemQRXkabxKn7WlUwctJRnopWpqO42AqsG6MrHZpaJ+GX4Oh8MLLh3p3tfZxE= X-Received: by 2002:a19:ca51:: with SMTP id h17mr29489169lfj.126.1546898901914; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 14:08:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eric Rescorla Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 14:07:43 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008d6cca057ee577de" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues - part 3 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 22:08:26 -0000 --0000000000008d6cca057ee577de Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:47 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Seems like I skipped one issue in my previous reply. > > > S 5.3.2. > >> > >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is > >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER > >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification > >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and > 2xx > >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the > UA. > > > >Why not race these? > > One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated. > > > >The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA is > awake. > > The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP > requests before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER > etc. > But that may or may not be true, depending on whether the device has gone to sleep -Ekr > Regards, > > Christer > > > > --0000000000008d6cca057ee577de Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:47 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.co= m> wrote:

Seems like I skipped one issu= e in my previous reply.


S 5.3.2.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the proxy has knowledge that the = UA is awake, and that the UA is
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 able to receive the SIP request with= out first sending a REGISTER
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 request, the proxy MAY choose to not= request a push notification
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 towards the UA (and wait for the ass= ociated REGISTER request and 2xx
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 response) before it tries to forward= the SIP request towards the UA.
>
>Why not race these?

One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated.

>The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the= UA is awake.

The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP = requests before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER et= c.

But that may or may not be true, depending on whether the device has gone= to sleep

-Ekr


Regards,

Christer



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Tue, 8 Jan 2019 12:50:17 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1516.010; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 12:50:17 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Eric Rescorla CC: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues - part 3 Thread-Index: AQHUpsHUhFjjQmbHb0u6y8z0SMYiDaWkXU+AgADtpLc= Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 12:50:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, S 5.3.2. >> >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and 2x= x >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the UA= . > >Why not race these? One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated. >The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA is awake= . The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP reque= sts before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER etc. >But that may or may not be true, depending on whether the device has gone = to sleep Implementations can of course do whatever they want, but I think it is bad = design to specify such behavior. Unless the request will reach the UA, some= re-transmissions will be "wasted", and once the proxy receives the REGISTE= R the re-transmission timer might have become rather big. But, perhaps we could say something like: "if the proxy has knowledge, or strong reasons to believe, that the UA is a= wake" An example of such strong reason is that the proxy received the previous RE= GISTER just a few seconds ago. Regards, Christer -Ekr Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161FF8C793D16A45AA7C7F6938A0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


S 5.3.2.
>>  
>>      If the proxy has knowledge that the = UA is awake, and that the UA is
>>      able to receive the SIP request with= out first sending a REGISTER
>>      request, the proxy MAY choose to not= request a push notification
>>      towards the UA (and wait for the ass= ociated REGISTER request and 2xx
>>      response) before it tries to forward= the SIP request towards the UA.
>
>Why not race these?

One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated.

>The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA = is awake.

The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP = requests before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER et= c.

>But that may or may not be true, depending on whether= the device has gone to sleep

Implementations can of course do whatever they want, but I think it is= bad design to specify such behavior. Unless the request will reach the UA,= some re-transmissions will be "wasted", and once the proxy recei= ves the REGISTER the re-transmission timer might have become rather big.

But, perhaps we could say something like:

"if the proxy has knowledge, or strong reasons to believe, that t= he UA is awake"

An example of such strong reason is that the proxy received the previo= us REGISTER just a few seconds ago.

Regards,

Christer 


-Ekr


Regards,

Christer



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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, For some strange reason most of the text got cut from my previous reply. Tr= ying again. S 5.3.2. >> >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and 2x= x >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the UA= . > >Why not race these? One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated. >The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA is awake= . The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP reque= sts before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER etc. But that may or may not be true, depending on whether the device has gone t= o sleep Implementations can of course do whatever they want, but I think it is bad = design to specify such behavior. If the request will not reach the UA, some= retransmissions will be wasted, and the retransmission interval will incre= ase. I would also assume that it could trigger unnecessary discarded message err= or logging etc. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161F4E5A2867E6745666892938A0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


For some strange reason most of t= he text got cut from my previous reply. Trying again.


S 5.3.2.
>>  
>>      If the proxy has knowledge that the = UA is awake, and that the UA is
>>      able to receive the SIP request with= out first sending a REGISTER
>>      request, the proxy MAY choose to not= request a push notification
>>      towards the UA (and wait for the ass= ociated REGISTER request and 2xx
>>      response) before it tries to forward= the SIP request towards the UA.
>
>Why not race these?

One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated.

>The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA = is awake.

The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP = requests before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER et= c.

But that may or may not be true, depending on whether the device has g= one to sleep

Implementations can of course do whatever they want, but I think it is= bad design to specify such behavior. If the request will not reach the UA,= some retransmissions will be wasted, and the retransmission interval will = increase.

I would also assume that it could trigger unnecessary discarded messag= e error logging etc.

Regards,

Christer

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Don't know what is going on... -----Original Message----- From: Christer Holmberg =20 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 3:08 PM To: Eric Rescorla Cc: The IESG ; br@brianrosen.net; sipcore@ietf.org; draft-ie= tf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org; sipcore-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (wi= th DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues - part 3 Hi, For some strange reason most of the text got cut from my previous reply. Tr= ying again. S 5.3.2. >> >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and 2x= x >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the UA From nobody Tue Jan 8 05:48:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE09128CB7 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 05:47:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PQ1YEPQvqHvK for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 05:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F39B8124BAA for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 05:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id l15-v6so3421735lja.9 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 05:47:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IrMI8txcRmDHAyoMcDXfnhJ5Kc2qqmaamvYduHUmpeU=; b=B1GJ4iVjnYFmYnJmO0z0/1nM+x7YCP40/45B55iTdDlK1N9oRG6CfTFk2RaHSlTNSM C8UPh7BEhT4+P5EidiwrFEPQ4foUTkYRvw/l4RiBzUcFyWc9NkZ4E0sob2PnwF8xFdGD O2ZauICyGWepGyEL6UxBUStGvmAwnm2dOjLyf0pmwTiGT9ayyMx3QJR7cwS/+kce2Xpb xpWuU4REaFW559mgqMREDyHy80j6H3qInOcA/zMg84KVSXqaBqJE2rBnxSeDKJ9JfI7u puQPoBAy/f5ig3OsJf1BOVNESySyGh0oDeQkmgcT0egUQeXuULJ9wFh70tSl5gmFKTsC a6SQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IrMI8txcRmDHAyoMcDXfnhJ5Kc2qqmaamvYduHUmpeU=; b=Ts4W5D3+rnrkZiH1usSsRXqB0yGMe7c8ScvbgVI3b8OaHMgmUSi/XPn26t8cgg9TzN qs1HBTYmXJE2OJ8zCbl5bwqOMKhPzBpVliqmRMPnDZVDKqFYRvw3/qonWHetovp2PVts DfEsyFYpS8QJeoatYNVbBuvGfuozehedx/mvpcSXzz7z3FqCuLdI3sZiEWp1fSXVUUID cQgQtLZoT5v5nCsfhZDHH6WPx3tQtb3W/p7zK7QNQQIEjdZSN3Or2OwRy7WdHJQ11EEc LCfB8UhKpv66TaTI5XJfVievZNQ6k3+01HH9C8YMtmpH0nbXTByR7vc/NHHOVWo1wx+3 aWOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeD3iarb/FCvsQQoeptS4tsJazfZimO48ww78uqeOOjNvsuTbM+ fmTE8SWXnhbXYpa758cPQ/oExsnIxFZJOD+4ddyg6g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5R2CTxmyC3e/yKFNkgp2EMI9uav87kvvx1J+ve0tSJtphaJbO8irne5M85dzvkIw3to8h6/xQJOsPn37z2h50= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:1552:: with SMTP id 18-v6mr1120058ljv.68.1546955275189; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 05:47:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eric Rescorla Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 05:47:18 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a95ab7057ef29721" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues - part 3 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:48:00 -0000 --000000000000a95ab7057ef29721 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 4:50 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > S 5.3.2. > >> > >> If the proxy has knowledge that the UA is awake, and that the UA is > >> able to receive the SIP request without first sending a REGISTER > >> request, the proxy MAY choose to not request a push notification > >> towards the UA (and wait for the associated REGISTER request and > 2xx > >> response) before it tries to forward the SIP request towards the > UA. > > > >Why not race these? > > One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated. > > > >The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the UA is > awake. > > The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP > requests before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER > etc. > > > >But that may or may not be true, depending on whether the device has > gone to sleep > > Implementations can of course do whatever they want, but I think it is bad > design to specify such behavior. Unless the request will reach the UA, some > re-transmissions will be "wasted", > We trade off "wasted" transmissions for performance all the time. For instance: RFC 6555. and once the proxy receives the REGISTER the re-transmission timer might > have become rather big. > Well, that's easy to fix by not incrementing the timer on these transmissions. But, perhaps we could say something like: > > "if the proxy has knowledge, or strong reasons to believe, that the UA is > awake" > > An example of such strong reason is that the proxy received the previous > REGISTER just a few seconds ago. > This text still seems to discourage this behavior, and I'm not in agreement with you that we should do so. -Ekr Regards, > > Christer > > > -Ekr > > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > --000000000000a95ab7057ef29721 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 4:50 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.hol= mberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,


S 5.3.2.
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the proxy has knowledge that the = UA is awake, and that the UA is
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 able to receive the SIP request with= out first sending a REGISTER
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 request, the proxy MAY choose to not= request a push notification
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 towards the UA (and wait for the ass= ociated REGISTER request and 2xx
>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 response) before it tries to forward= the SIP request towards the UA.
>
>Why not race these?

One could do that, but I don't think it should be mandated.

>The current text prohibits racing if you *don't* know that the= UA is awake.

The basic assumption of the mechanism is that a UA cannot receive SIP = requests before it has received the push notification, sent the REGISTER et= c.

>But that may or may not be true, depending on whether= the device has gone to sleep

Implementations can of course do whatever they want, but I think it is= bad design to specify such behavior. Unless the request will reach the UA,= some re-transmissions will be "wasted",
=

We trade off "waste= d" transmissions for performance all the time. For instance: RFC 6555.=


and once the proxy receives the R= EGISTER the re-transmission timer might have become rather big.

Well, that's easy to fix by not increment= ing the timer on these transmissions.


But, perhaps we could say something like:

"if the proxy has knowledge, or strong reasons to believe, that t= he UA is awake"

An example of such strong reason is that the proxy received the previo= us REGISTER just a few seconds ago.

This t= ext still seems to discourage this behavior, and I'm not in agreement w= ith you that we should do so.

-Ekr
<= br>
Regards,

Christer=C2=A0


-Ekr


Regards,

Christer



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draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - The DISCUSS issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 14:36:56 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB31615C9B43FB38B1FE045926938A0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, DETAIL S 5.3.2. >> request) addressed towards a SIP UA, if the Request-URI of the >> request contains a pn-provider, a pn-prid and a pn-param (if requir= ed >> for the specific PNS provider) SIP URI parameter, the proxy request= s >> a push notification towards the UA, using the PRID included in the >> pn-prid SIP URI parameter and the PNS identified by the pn-provider >> SIP URI parameter. > >Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like it leaves open the >possibility for the PRID to not match the rest of the URI. E.g., >suppose that a@example.com and b@example.com both register with the >same proxy/registrar pair with PRIDa and PRIDb respectively. What >stops the registrar from generating (or forwarding) a call to >a@example.com, PRIDb? And what happens if that happe= ns? Since no a@example.com:PRIDb binding has been registered, the registrar wil= l not generate such URI. >No conformant registrar will. But what about a nonconformant one? Or anoth= er endpoint. Such registrar/endpoint would not even be SIP compliant. But, IF it happens, the UA associated with PRIDb will receive a push notifi= cation and send a REGISTER. But, since the REGISTER contact will not match = the R-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, the SIP request will not be f= orwarded by the proxy (eventually there will be a timeout) --- S 5.3.2. >> also present (and has not expired) in the REGISTER response, the >> proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA, using normal SIP >> procedures. If the contact of the REGISTER request does not match >> the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, or if the conta= ct >> was not present in the REGISTER response, the proxy MUST reject the >> SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. This can happen if th= e > >How does this happen? I.e., how does the the REGISTER get correlated >with the SIP request to be forwarded in order to execute this >requirement? There could be cases where e.g. the PRID values match, but the rest of the = contact don't. >Such as? E.g., if the UA has changed its IP address and/or port. But, I don't think that is relevant. What matters is that the contacts DO m= atch, AND that the contact is present in the REGISTER response. The rest wi= ll be handled by the timeout procedures. >But *this* text requires you to behave in a certain way in case of mismatc= h. When will >this be executed? I suggested modified text, that only talks about the case when there is a m= atch. In other cases, when there is no match, there will be a timeout. --- S 6.2.1. >> generated key as the value to the associated 2xx REGISTER response. >> >> The PURR value MUST be generated in such a way so that it cannot be >> used to retrieve information about the user or associate it with >> registrations. It can be generated e.g., by utilizing a >> cryptographically secure random function. > >This seems to weak. I assume you also don't want it to be possible to >determine that two PURRs correspond to the same user. Also who must be >able to use it in this way. Presumably the proxy can? > >Why is this not a requirement for say PRID? The PURR value will reach the remote user. The PRID will only reach the reg= istrar. >You need to say that. Ok. I suggest to add: "Since the PURR value will be transported to the remote peer, the value MUS= T be generated..." --- S 13. >> specification. Web push permits the sending of a push message >> without a payload without encryption. >> >> 13. Security Considerations >> >> Different mechanisms exist for authenticating and authorizing devic= es > >You need to discuss the security implications of knowledge of the push >parameters (principally PRID). What happens if an attacker learns >them? Based on the sec-dir review, I did some modifications/additions to the secu= rity considerations. They can be seen in the following pull request: https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31 Regarding your comment, I have tried to address that with the following sug= gested text: "Typically, the PNS requires the SIP proxy requesting push noti= fications to be authenticated and authorized by the PNS. In some cases the PNS = also require the SIP application (or the SIP application developer) to be id= entified in order for the application to request push notifications. Unless the PNS authe= nticates and authorizes the PNS, a malicious middleman that managed to get access to the paramet= ers transported in the SIP signalling might be able to request push notifications towards a UA. Which= such push notifications will not have any security related impacts, they will impact the battery= life of the UA and trigger unnecessary SIP traffic." >Why "middleman" as opposed to any endpoint. I can change "middleman" to "endpoint". Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31615C9B43FB38B1FE045926938A0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

DETAIL
S 5.3.2.
>>      request) addressed towards a SIP UA,= if the Request-URI of the
>>      request contains a pn-provider, a pn= -prid and a pn-param (if required
>>      for the specific PNS provider) SIP U= RI parameter, the proxy requests
>>      a push notification towards the UA, = using the PRID included in the
>>      pn-prid SIP URI parameter and the PN= S identified by the pn-provider
>>      SIP URI parameter.
>
>Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like it leaves open the
>possibility for the PRID to not match the rest of the URI. E.g.,
>suppose that a@examp= le.com and b@example.com both r= egister with the
>same proxy/registrar pair with PRIDa and PRIDb respectively. What
>stops the registrar from generating (or forwarding) a call to
>a@example.com, P= RIDb? And what happens if that happens?

Since no a@example.com:P= RIDb binding has been registered, the registrar will not generate such URI.=

&n= bsp;

>No = conformant registrar will. But what about a nonconformant one? Or another e= ndpoint.

&n= bsp;

Such re= gistrar/endpoint would not even be SIP compliant.

&n= bsp;

But, IF= it happens, the UA associated with PRIDb will receive a push notification = and send a REGISTER. But, since the REGISTER contact will not match the R-U= RI of the SIP request to be forwarded, the SIP request will not be forwarded by the proxy (eventually there will = be a timeout)

&n= bsp;

---

&n= bsp;

S 5.3.2.
>>      also present (and has not expired) in the REGI= STER response, the
>>      proxy can forward the SIP request towards the = UA, using normal SIP
>>      procedures.  If the contact of the REGIST= ER request does not match
>>      the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwa= rded, or if the contact
>>      was not present in the REGISTER response, the = proxy MUST reject the
>>      SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.&n= bsp; This can happen if the
>
>How does this happen? I.e., how does the the REGISTER get correlated >with the SIP request to be forwarded in order to execute this
>requirement?

There could be cases whe= re e.g. the PRID values match, but the rest of the contact don't. 

&n= bsp;

>Suc= h as?

&n= bsp;

E.g., i= f the UA has changed its IP address and/or port.

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

But, I don't think that = is relevant. What matters is that the contacts DO match, AND that the conta= ct is present in the REGISTER response. The rest will be handled by the tim= eout procedures.

&n= bsp;

>But= *this* text requires you to behave in a certain way in case of mismatch. W= hen will 

>thi= s be executed?

&n= bsp;

I sugge= sted modified text, that only talks about the case when there is a match. I= n other cases, when there is no match, there will be a timeout.<= /span>

&n= bsp;

---

&n= bsp;

S 6.2.1.
>>      generated key as the value to the as= sociated 2xx REGISTER response.
>>  
>>      The PURR value MUST be generated in = such a way so that it cannot be
>>      used to retrieve information about t= he user or associate it with
>>      registrations.  It can be gener= ated e.g., by utilizing a
>>      cryptographically secure random func= tion.
>
>This seems to weak. I assume you also don't want it to be possible to >determine that two PURRs correspond to the same user. Also who must be<= br> >able to use it in this way. Presumably the proxy can?
>
>Why is this not a requirement for say PRID?

The PURR value will reac= h the remote user. The PRID will only reach the registrar.

&n= bsp;

>You= need to say that.

&n= bsp;

Ok. I s= uggest to add:

&n= bsp;

"S= ince the PURR value will be transported to the remote peer, the value MUST = be generated..."

&n= bsp;

---

&n= bsp;

S 13. >>      specification.  Web push permit= s the sending of a push message
>>      without a payload without encryption= .
>>  
>>   13.  Security Considerations
>>  
>>      Different mechanisms exist for authe= nticating and authorizing devices
>
>You need to discuss the security implications of knowledge of the push<= br> >parameters (principally PRID). What happens if an attacker learns
>them?

 =

Based on the sec-dir rev= iew, I did some modifications/additions to the security considerations. The= y can be seen in the following pull request:

 =

 =

Regarding your comment, = I have tried to address that with the following suggested text:<= /span>

 =

      &nb= sp;     "Typically, the PNS requires the SIP proxy requestin= g push notifications to be
            authenti= cated and authorized by the PNS. In some cases the PNS also require
            the SIP = application (or the SIP application developer) to be identified in order fo= r the
            applicat= ion to request push notifications. Unless the PNS authenticates and authori= zes the PNS,
            a malici= ous middleman that managed to get access to the parameters transported in t= he SIP signalling
            might be= able to request push notifications towards a UA. Which such push notificat= ions will not
            have any= security related impacts, they will impact the battery life of the UA and = trigger
            unnecess= ary SIP traffic."

&n= bsp;

>Why= "middleman" as opposed to any endpoint. <= /p>

&n= bsp;

I can c= hange "middleman" to "endpoint".

&n= bsp;

Regards= ,

&n= bsp;

Christe= r

&n= bsp;

--_000_HE1PR07MB31615C9B43FB38B1FE045926938A0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Tue Jan 8 13:19:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF13E12D84C for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:19:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N0kU4i-gD1-Q for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:19:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1A55124D68 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:19:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x08LJ5WI039156 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 8 Jan 2019 15:19:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1546982348; bh=/xwNSRYebuBcsZi9BjAl4ouTbXuy1JYJJmYP8hJBKZ0=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=D8hEcqEv9o9L54CSYoKJt+/4p+JCBq8z4AvtH78XMLZ2QtyR5l/Dn8nNnTyzxDtUH uMz/FpOET7H3KmdiZhvcKocBjPO8oODW9s5i2Huvt4/jOdHTYAcpurT8NRNlGyenqd v7fi3nmH7TTCQt8jmXSHj5nRTw4ybBSt+aJtdNhc= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <2F7C1069-7647-41BA-9E4C-5448CCC8DA83@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AF7FDA09-8176-4D1A-AABC-A9A6912EC64C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 15:19:04 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" To: Eric Rescorla , Christer Holmberg References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 21:19:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AF7FDA09-8176-4D1A-AABC-A9A6912EC64C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D84217CF-5AA7-4176-914B-6BD85934EBB3" --Apple-Mail=_D84217CF-5AA7-4176-914B-6BD85934EBB3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 7, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Eric Rescorla wrote: >=20 > In this reply I will address the COMMENT issues: >=20 > >This document is very badly in need of editorial work for = readability. > >I would urge the responsible AD to make one. >=20 > I have done quite a bit of editorial work based on WGLC/AD comments = etc. I am happy to improve it even further, but someone needs to guide = me what to do. >=20 > Ben? >=20 For the record, this has already undergone a number of revisions due to = editorial review in the WG and during AD evaluation. I agree it=E2=80=99s = not ideal, but I think most of it can be understood. I fear we=E2=80=99ve = already reached the point of diminishing returns regarding to stylistic = issues. That being said, there are some areas that would still be worthwhile to = improve before this goes to the RFC editor. I think the places where = Ekr pointed out readability issues mostly deal with nested conditional = statements in prose. Those should generally be avoided whenever = possible;. They take a lot of effort for humans to read and comprehend. This is especially true for center-imbedded conditions, e.g. =E2=80=9CWhen= you receive a FOO request, if the request contains BAR, do BAZ.=E2=80=9D= That would be more readable constructed as =E2=80=9CWhen you receive = a FOO request that contains BAR, do BAZ.=E2=80=9D It often helps to = break more complex procedures into steps. Long sentences with multiple commas are often clues for this sort of = issue. Thanks, Ben. --Apple-Mail=_D84217CF-5AA7-4176-914B-6BD85934EBB3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jan 7, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> = wrote:

In this reply I will address the COMMENT issues:

>This document is very = badly in need of editorial work for readability.
>I = would urge the responsible AD to make one.

I = have done quite a bit of editorial work based on WGLC/AD comments etc. I = am happy to improve it even further, but someone needs to guide me what = to = do. 

Ben?


For the record, this has already undergone a = number of revisions due to editorial review in the WG and during AD = evaluation. I agree it=E2=80=99s not ideal, but I think most of it can = be understood. I fear we=E2=80=99ve already reached the point of = diminishing returns regarding to stylistic issues.

That being said, there are some areas that would = still be worthwhile to improve before this goes to the RFC editor. =  I think the places where Ekr pointed out readability issues mostly = deal with nested conditional statements in prose. Those should generally = be avoided whenever possible;. They take a lot of effort for humans to = read and comprehend. 

This is = especially true for center-imbedded conditions, e.g. =E2=80=9CWhen you = receive a  FOO request, if the request contains BAR, do BAZ.=E2=80=9D=  That would be more readable constructed as  =E2=80=9CWhen = you receive a FOO request that contains BAR, do BAZ.=E2=80=9D  It = often helps to break more complex procedures into steps.

Long sentences with multiple commas are often = clues for this sort of issue.

Thanks,

Ben.


= --Apple-Mail=_D84217CF-5AA7-4176-914B-6BD85934EBB3-- --Apple-Mail=_AF7FDA09-8176-4D1A-AABC-A9A6912EC64C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw1E8kACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A17Wg/8DqSDHeQexL3S7mXZ3mlJ9bUGzp3CxFzoMcZ2JEdreB2WSq4wyOeCH/X6 NvK5d8QxPNKu/5f3qqQXwS8ZkaSk6y3IU/INuf7YdMxyFHsuNuX8Ca9SVUQJzuX8 9CJEGL45+5c4GR0Q4u3AxU/axhvUVQ9P+HQs41NjEbrB+b9PuwvMZzBkYQwUV0LA 0kZRnT3NMwWdOFdHNwNthaCT99ioc8nWrQnfZouchHTzdB2y8uGsJ2IIDZtp4wtO E7693ERipXEr+6nPlpiADWBrRSJRs3AINPgmXqdCurs7fRd1c3AbQEYbx85Wdq/w 0HWAmGrOZc7gI6cp6EEynxySpbSPxxypp6CgoJdeLF5KE8iKxT/4kPvTzsLeSZOu AE+L3RvnGnJFhot0h4c9fpkMMh9GeQr2mG52eo6W1zqe7HRIhzsxKGW01hYnFhfE 8shQpoXZZ5xCzUDoV04uKM9B1YmKxolz+O5Ba+/5yo+cwNTI27Fg5nI/1ONS/P9V OioSjwV9gOoqrNMz0TWZg/WsDiA6OWaZkYUdKzE+F4KyZqaiscmG1tMMunXwFzmD urGoLHn5De85oGVs9Ep06P211MmGd8leLk54ZnYlswTTpw3+j+FLE4TxjBSCemNm NC7zZMetUmUsqNWy9Eb4WBz+KK2wsYGH4hPdn3JiqqSdg513DrU= =V4Q4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_AF7FDA09-8176-4D1A-AABC-A9A6912EC64C-- From nobody Tue Jan 8 13:29:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D751813117E for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:29:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fbZIYocepYMg for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:29:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AF0513117D for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 13:29:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x08LTlEl040931 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 8 Jan 2019 15:29:48 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1546982989; bh=dLcp+zKPXXyijn4Zg/LIPnHrM5IrPdvXUQ9TTctk8VI=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=FzZ4XUSGx5CbyOrWQ9o0tXGxJM61BNDG86wlx9StMBJ+IyJQ+lMBlnAg1WR36aKEG ihehRavayJH/Ws8TCU2Mx/Ing0jt2IpMv2fOFjQUv6fisfBWfL5fzELGnZWVOw00LI CEeUwkvV1NskBx+33RDi8iJmrLHY6lkUAuKfKyhE= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <14B775F3-3115-47BE-AC68-BC45FCD78702@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BD9EE025-5AD0-454B-8884-96C5C13F4BE3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 15:29:46 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: Eric Rescorla , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" To: Christer Holmberg References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 21:29:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BD9EE025-5AD0-454B-8884-96C5C13F4BE3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_64E70842-7181-4914-B38B-814657406987" --Apple-Mail=_64E70842-7181-4914-B38B-814657406987 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Jan 7, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > S 1. > >> will request push notifications towards the UA. > >> > >> When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog or a = stand- > >> alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy > >> determines that the UA needs to send a binding-refresh = REGISTER > >> request, the proxy will request a push notification towards = the UA, > > > > "request ... towards" is ungrammatical >=20 > Is "request a push notification to be sent towards the UA" better? >=20 > >I would say "request that a push notification be sent to" >=20 > Ok. >=20 > ... >=20 > S 4.1. > >> > >> NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP UA are outside = the > >> scope of this document. > >> > >> When the UA receives a push notification, it MUST send a = binding- > >> refresh REGISTER request, using normal SIP procedures. If = there are > > > >This seems unnecessarily restrictive. Are we never going to want any > >other kind of push notification? >=20 > Well, in order for this mechanism to work, it has to be a MUST, and = the procedures obviously only applies to UAs that use the SIP push = mechanism. >=20 > >Yeah, this seems like a pretty major architectural flaw in this = design, tbh, one that is > >remedied by just using RFC 8030-style notifications that contain = content. >=20 > Other push notification services support content too, but we decided = that we are not going to specify that for SIP push. >=20 > IF there comes a future case, where multiple SIP usages of push = notifications have to co-exist, we can define usage of content (and = e.g., define that SIP push is default). Just a note: This came up in WG discussion and again during the AD = evaluation. IIRC, the consensus was to not attempt to solve the issue in = this draft. That being said, I think it would be worth including a note that the = potential exists and is being punted to the future. Thanks, Ben. --Apple-Mail=_64E70842-7181-4914-B38B-814657406987 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

On Jan 7, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:


Hi,

S 1.
>>      will request push = notifications towards the UA.
>>   
>>      When the proxy receives a SIP = request for a new dialog or a stand-
>>   =    alone SIP request addressed towards a UA, or when the = proxy
>>      determines that the UA = needs to send a binding-refresh REGISTER
>>   =    request, the proxy will request a push notification towards = the UA,
>
> "request ... towards" is = ungrammatical

Is "request a push = notification to be sent towards the UA" better?

>I would say "request = that a push notification be sent to" 

Ok.

...

S 4.1.
>>   
>>   =    NOTE: The VAPID specific procedures of the SIP UA are = outside the
>>      scope of this = document.
>>   
>> =      When the UA receives a push notification, it MUST = send a binding-
>>      refresh = REGISTER request, using normal SIP procedures.  If there are
>
>This seems unnecessarily restrictive. = Are we never going to want any
>other kind of push = notification?

Well, in order for = this mechanism to work, it has to be a MUST, and the procedures = obviously only applies to UAs that use the SIP push = mechanism.

>Yeah, this seems = like a pretty major architectural flaw in this design, tbh, one that = is 
>remedied by just using RFC 8030-style = notifications that contain content.

Other push notification services = support content too, but we decided that we are not going to specify = that for SIP push.

IF there comes a future case, where multiple SIP usages of = push notifications have to co-exist, we can define usage of content (and = e.g., define that SIP push is = default).

Just a note: This came up in WG discussion and = again during the AD evaluation. IIRC, the consensus was to not attempt = to solve the issue in this draft.

That= being said, I think it would be worth including a note that the = potential exists and is being punted to the future.

Thanks,

Ben.
= --Apple-Mail=_64E70842-7181-4914-B38B-814657406987-- --Apple-Mail=_BD9EE025-5AD0-454B-8884-96C5C13F4BE3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw1FkoACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A1lqQ/8CO6c6oieWM5+P8E5rEpJfxIM7SWRJly6+r10KqcaWr8WVC7mgZWKcvOK O1+zgEvX4LJuZYDoFWgNPk1EGKRF4S12AkHjQkgmNLUHvxDrjCAB68YUb7TuzMq3 ERrx6akf3OGNev4XmjYVaR0r6voNDm1U7f8PdiQdDst6r9YOUWU7gxlVkNoLpMEa jkO2kvSwhw//r6MmL1cTg+d27AlMefNwPWkWAr02tLLgha5QBCTxxaYPsyz/Pyih My9qp8u9U+iUwryolafWh207fL4ARCjDAbqtPzTEHku2vyKN61eWFfgB7mzSJHUI nvxsq1xYOMV+1lG+k2VJU2rEBX5yyCtNCrngpeZ55MmpQm0JTHRIXGYxFwvMMfYU SjrKcr29WNYIFetaz9YqhUNOAcqeVWMe7zAZi6DVKyXXUTaA4Ec8rqAKmomJuIuB BB5PUuMUN1x3ITrvOOzn7X6ijOb2SlYaMtP2JTrt9q7ZdlzlmT7PS88Iclm7PZUy ZyaDCsKwp1kTPVIE6ZO1u0DFGA4hDDaVyyHyCOmRX1QHWRC08T+VFGk7GaKk0Xxf dxs85fdFrBzMcmsr+wemFQTD3XGVRQjFLBAsCdfK6kuV8iETjdKYqrRSDFJzTkLC 3Oh67YvwqD6sxxSgBE2qzaizHonS8tnI9fqkEYFyFd/BSR7F/Hc= =P4yS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_BD9EE025-5AD0-454B-8884-96C5C13F4BE3-- From nobody Tue Jan 8 23:35:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27169128766; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 23:35:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, Brian Rosen , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net, sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154701934612.25502.3299451696400646933.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 23:35:46 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 07:35:46 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to everyone who is put work into defining this mechanism. I think it will be very useful to have a solution for integrating push mechanisms into SIP networks. I've identified three issues that I think need to be addressed in the current document before it can move forward, and a fourth serious flaw that I call out in my comments below. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's nice that this document has considered the impact of inbound mid-dialog messages in long-lived dialogs. However, it appears to have a major hole in it: handing of outbound messages for the purpose of maintaining soft-state in those dialogs isn't handled correctly. In particular: networks that deploy this mechanism will cause SUBSCRIBE dialogs to time out and be destroyed while they are still in use. Additionally, if RFC 4028 (session timers) is negotiated, then INVITE dialogs will suffer the same fate. I can think of a couple of ways for these situations to be handled, but they need explicit text in the document. One approach would be to specify that the User Agent selects its requested "Expires" value in its registration to be the smallest value before its set of subscriptions and session timers needs to be refreshed. This would cause a push notification to happen to prevent registration timeout, and the client could refresh the other soft state at that time. Complications arise if the registrar responds with a 483 (Interval too Brief), and we'd need to find a solution for that. Another approach would be for the clients to refresh all soft state whenever they send a registration, and set the timeout for that soft state to be equal to or greater than the registration timeout. A complication could arise if the notifier or the peer in an invite dialog shortens the requested time, and we'd need to find a solution for that. A third approach would be getting the proxy involved in some way -- either by requiring it to observe subscription and session timer timeouts and requiring it to send push notifications prior to their expiration, or by an explicit communication between the UA and the proxy that indicates when the next push notification should be scheduled. If the latter approach is taken, I would suggest that it needs to be taken for REGISTER messages as well. I really don't think this mechanism is feasibly deployable without a solution to this problem. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §4.1: > For privacy and security reasons, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP URI > parameters defined in this document in non-REGISTER request, to > prevent the PNS information associated with the UA from reaching the > remote peer. This seems to ignore the availability of Contact URI parameters via RFC 3680 subscriptions. This would seem to impose a requirement on Registrars to strip this information before making it available to any other party (which, in turn, requires that the system have explicit Registrar *and* Proxy support). As far as I can tell, the system so far has not required explicit proxy support (and there's certainly no mechanism built-in that ensures that a proxy has any special handling regarding this mechanism). If the PNS information is sensitive, and cannot be allowed to leak out to other users, then we need some way to ensure the registrar has provided positive confirmation that it will not do so before allowing it to come into possession of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §4.2: > The UA can do so by only including the pn-provider > SIP URI parameter in the SIP Contact header field URI of the REGISTER > request, but without including the pn-prid SIP URI parameter. Unless I'm mistaken, this is a barrier to interoperation. It's not 100% clear, but I suspect the intended implication is that the pn-provider parameter here will contain a single value? The syntax of the parameter certainly seems to imply that. This seems to be a pretty big problem, since it presupposes that the client will know which PNSes the Proxy supports. Consider, for example, an iOS client that can use any of RFC 8030, FCM, and APN (cf https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/ios/client). If the client doesn't know a priori what the proxy supports (and this entire section only makes sense if that's true), then it won't know which of those three services to indicate in its REGISTER request. If it guesses wrong, this mechanism simply fails. I think you need a different discovery mechanism here -- either have one that has the client offering multiple PNS protocols and the proxy responding with one, or have one in which the proxy indicates all of its supported services in a response, and the client chooses one to use in its next REGISTER message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Figure 1: This diagram includes both a ladder diagram and an example REGISTER message. While both of these are useful at this point in the document, neither of them is an "Architecture," and they're really two different things. I suggest breaking this into two Figures, entitled "Typical Information Flow" and "Example REGISTER Message" (or similar), respectively. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §4.1: > As long as the UA wants to receive push notifications (requested by > the proxy), the UA MUST include a pn-provider, pn-prid and a pn-param > (if required for the specific PNS provider) SIP URI parameter in each > binding-refresh REGISTER request. Please be clear that these parameters appear in the Contact URI. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §5.2: > In order to request push notifications towards a SIP UA that will > trigger the UA to send binding-refresh SIP REGISTER requests, the SIP > proxy needs to have information about when a registration will > expire. The proxy needs to be able to retrieve the information from > the registrar using some mechanism. Such mechanisms are outside the > scope of this document, but could be implemented e.g., using the > SIPregistration event package mechanism [RFC3680]. Nit: "SIP registration" This mechanism seems to be predicated on an architecture in which the proxy must be on the traffic path. Although it's problematic from a "what proxies are expected to do" perspective, it seems like the proxy could glean this information from the 200 response to the REGISTER request. (I mean, the proxy is already reading parameters out of the contact header field, so the behavior of acting on registration information is already assumed). The proxy would, of course, need to run its own timers, but that seems to be a pretty minor requirement, given everything else involved here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §5.3.1: This is a major comment, and one that has a sufficient impact on interop that I had a long debate with myself about whether it should be a DISCUSS. Please take it very seriously. > Otherwise, if the pn-provider SIP URI parameter identifies a type of > PNS that the proxy does not support, or if the REGISTER request does > not contain all additional information required for the specific type > of PNS, the proxy MUST either forward the request (e.g., if the proxy > knows that another proxy that will receive the REGISTER request > supports the type of PNS)... How would the proxy know this? Features like suppressing PNS behavior when a "sip.pns" feature capability is present in the REGISTER imply that the various nodes in the network discover capabilities of their neighbors automatically (which is consistent with the way SIP does features), while this provision seems to require provisioned knowledge. This is going to be operationally very confusing. At the very least, the document needs to call out how this "knowledge" is obtained. In the more general sense, since a client cannot rely on the proxy supporting *any* kind of PNS, the use of 555 in the way specified here is at best an optimization -- and, since the configured information can conflict with actual reality, it's an optimization that can actually break things unless extreme care is exercised. (e.g., if the proxy is configured to "know" that the next proxy cannot provide push service, but this knowledge is wrong, then the network is unnecessarily broken.) My rather strong recommendation is to remove this code, and let the client rely on the lack of indication of support in the response indicate that the feature is not supported. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §5.3.1: > o if the proxy received a 'sip.pnsreg' media feature tag in the > REGISTER request, the proxy SHOULD include a 'sip.pnsreg' feature- > capability indicator with an indicator value bigger than 120 in > the response, unless the proxy always want to request push Nit: "...wants..." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §5.3.2: > If the contact of the REGISTER request does not match > the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, or if the contact > was not present in the REGISTER response, the proxy MUST reject the > SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. This seems to be a very strong requirement ("MUST") when, e.g., many or most networks may want to return a 480 instead of a 404. I think what you want to say is something like "...MUST reject the SIP request. Response codes of either 404 (Not Found) or 480 (Temporarily Unavailable) are RECOMMENDED, but other appropriate codes may be used as well." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §5.3.2: > The reason the proxy needs to wait for the REGISTER response before > forwarding the SIP request is to make sure that the REGISTER request > has been accepted by the registrar, and that the UA which initiated Nit: "...the UA that initiated..." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §5.3.2: > In case of non-2xx response to the REGISTER request, the proxy MUST > reject the SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response. > > If the push notification request fails (see PNS-specific > documentation for details), the proxy MUST reject the SIP request > with a 480 (Temporarily Unavailable) response. > > If the proxy does not receive the REGISTER request from the UA within > a given time after the proxy has requested the push notification, the > proxy MUST reject the request with a 480 (Temporarily Unavailable) > response. The time value is set based on local policy. As above, this seems way too restrictive in terms of mandating specific error codes. It may well be the case that a network would want to treat these situations identically from the perspective of the calling party. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §5.3.2: > Otherwise the > proxy MUST reject the SIP request with a 480 (Temporarily > Unavailable) response. Same comment as above. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §6.1.1: > When the UA sends in initial request for a dialog, or a 2xx response Nit: "...sends an initial request..." > purr' SIP URI parameter in the Contact header of the request or Nit: "...Contact header field..." > NOTE: As the 'pn-purr' SIP URI parameter only applies to a give > dialog, the UA needs to include a 'pn-purr' parameter in the Contact Nit: "...given dialog..." > dialog, the UA needs to include a 'pn-purr' parameter in the Contact > header of the request or response for each dialog in which the UA is Nit: "...Contact header field..." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §6.1.1: > The UA MUST include a parameter value identical to the the > last 'sip.pnspurr' feature-capability indicator that it received in a > REGISTER response. This is incredibly confusing, as the "sip.pnspurr" indicator has not been mentioned in the document so far. Please revise as something along the lines of: > The UA MUST include a parameter value identical to the the last > 'sip.pnspurr' feature-capability indicator (see Section 6.2.1) that it > received in a REGISTER response. Alternately, reverse the order of sections 6.1 and 6.2 so that the PURR concept is properly introduced before protocol procedures are defined for it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §6.1.1: > NOTE: As the 'pn-purr' SIP URI parameter only applies to a give > dialog, the UA needs to include a 'pn-purr' parameter in the Contact > header of the request or response for each dialog in which the UA is > willing to receive push notifications triggered by incoming mid- > dialog requests. Similar to the above, this is a very confusing introduction of the "pn-purr" URI parameter. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §6.2.2: > Contact header field with a PURR value that the proxy has generated > Section 6.2.2, the proxy MUST add a Record-Route header to the > request, to insert itself in the dialog route [RFC3261]. This "Section 6.2.2" makes the sentence impossible to read. Is it intended to be in parentheses? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §6.2.3: > As described in Section 5.3.2, while waiting for the push > notification request to succeed, and the associated REGISTER request > to arrive from the SIP UA, the proxy needs to take into consideration > that the transaction associated with the NOTIFY request will > eventually time out at the sender of the request (UAC), and the > sender will consider the transaction a failure. I think this needs some discussion about the impact of the error codes selected by the proxy on the dialog and its usages. For example: * If the proxy sends a 404 to prevent a transaction timeout, it will destroy the dialog and all of its usages * If the proxy sends a 480 to prevent a transaction timeout, it will destroy the usage, but not other usages in the dialog (if any) * If the proxy sends a 504 to prevent a transaction timeout, it will keep the dialog and the usage alive, and allow the client to re-try at a later time. Simply allowing the transaction to time out will have the same effect, albeit with more message retransmissions. Pointing to RFC 5057 might be useful here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §8.7: > Parameter value characters that are not part of pvalue needs to be > escaped, as defined in RFC 3261. Nit: "...need to be escaped..." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §9: > When a new value is registered to the PNS Sub-registry, a reference > to a specification which describes the usage of the PNS associated Nit: "...specification that describes..." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §§10-12: Nit: It seems like these should all be subsections of section 9. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §10: > The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an > appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service Nit: "uniquely" Nit: "application" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §10: > Example: pn-param = DEF123GHIJ.com.yourcompany.yourexampleapp.voip Please use an RFC 2026 domain for this example; e.g.: > Example: pn-param = DEF123GHIJ.com.example.yourexampleapp.voip --------------------------------------------------------------------------- §11: > [RFC8292] defines a mechanism which allows a proxy to identity itself Nit: "...mechanism that allows..." From nobody Wed Jan 9 04:00:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0CA127133; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 04:00:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alexey Melnikov To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, Brian Rosen , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net, sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154703521377.7454.12348610753191573496.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 04:00:13 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 12:00:14 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am generally excited about addition of push notifications to SIP. I have a couple of comments (and a few less serious ones) that I would like to discuss before recommending approval of this document: 10. pn-provider, pn-param and pn-prid URI Parameters for Apple Push Notification service When the Apple Push Notification service (APNs) is used, the PNS- related SIP URI parameters are set as described below. The value of the pn-provider URI parameter is "apns". Example: pn-provider = apns Spaces are not allowed in URIs unencoded, so your example is misleading. I suggest you change it to "pn-provider=apns" (i.e. delete space before and after "="). Similar comment about 2 other parameter examples defined in this section. 10. pn-provider, pn-param and pn-prid URI Parameters for Apple Push Notification service The value of the pn-param URI parameter is a string that is composed by two values, separated by a period (.): Team ID and Topic. The Team ID is provided by Apple and is unique to a development team. I assume it doesn't contain any periods? The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service associated with the application, separated by a period (.). For VoIP applications the service value is "voip". How many periods are used in the value? If your example below is correct, can you clarify that Bundle ID itself contains periods? Example: pn-param = DEF123GHIJ.com.yourcompany.yourexampleapp.voip ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am agreeing with Adam's DISCUSS. In 8.2: pns-list = pns *(COMMA pns) My understanding is that COMMA (defined in RFC 3261) allows folding whitespace, in particular CRLF. Do you really want this in values? It is Ok if you do, I just wanted to double check. 8.7. SIP URI Parameters COLON = COLON is not used in this section or anywhere else in the document. 14.4.1. sip.pnsreg Security considerations: This media feature tag does not introduce new security considerations, as it simply indicates support for a basic SIP feature. If an attacker manages to remove the media feature tag, push notifications towards the client will be Is "not" missing before "be"? requested. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f822ab6f-a8ed-4fc6-8c6f-08d6763c0d4a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jan 2019 14:09:21.0957 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3513 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SaUhUURTHu++9efMcHby+NE+KGkMUuOZkOR/aNAi/KBZUYgM15XNBHW2e igqCaBZomrmmZWqauYuirYPLYIlGaNkiYeqUiTofylxK3PL5DPr2+5///557zuUyJHtPYsdE aOM4nVYTpaBlVEnQE94tf8dh9YEOvaWq64eBUH0fL6JVafMNhOrO6m1SlT1fSaoW/7TRJ2i/ 8aU1qd+zgW7ar7p6mQgkg2VHQrioiARO53Hskiy8zHSdiJ1wSNQ/b6ZTUZ1tJjJjAHvB6och lIlkDIt7EdQO3CUEg8WLCFqrtaKxyQ/7TKQoqggoHNRTgqBwLgm3Ot7QopNHwMjGNCEKI4L+ /NlNwTA0VkHWuouA1vgUGD/5CBESryGYWv9KCvftxKGQXTAsEdgah0Ht6GupmFfCg04klCm8 F8o2GiihLMdqKM0wFyf1h/SldlpgMxwALS1LW10Q3gW/Bxq3tiGxLXyeLCfElTFU6wdJkW1g 5tu6RGgJeA90tZ4Ryw7wrjxr61UAp0lh3DArEQ03+FlYuH3WH2Zac7ZDQwhMj7NpsZEzzDVG ijNooKt+YjsfCU252VIx/5aEirxJaS7yLP1vPpFdoeLFL1pkF6ipNJECy7EV9JdMUhWIqkc2 PMfz0WHKg+6cLuIKz8do3bVcXBva/DM97StuT1GDyceAMIMUFnL9yCE1K9Ek8EnRBgQMqbCW 7x/1UrPyEE1SMqeLuaiLj+J4A7JnKIWtfJW1UrM4TBPHRXJcLKf75xKMmV0qusk6KdNTlGcL WMa7PjLgJLOQZgwcux90OWl4YjenNI7XlJ1TNmUyTt1Vqh4vG44scPdVnu+dD76WODf9KDmC ny3aF74QaomKUy7UWVxN6xz74nr6VaVtwnLojLlsvXHq+I2V0KnS5pzOvsyPR1/6pni8d/TO iHds3pNo796RVKyg+HCNpzOp4zV/Ae+rWrEvAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:09:28 -0000 Hi Alexey, Thank You for the review! Please see inline. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >I am generally excited about addition of push notifications to SIP. >I have a couple of comments (and a few less serious ones) that I would lik= e to discuss before recommending approval of this document: > >10. pn-provider, pn-param and pn-prid URI Parameters for Apple Push > Notification service > > When the Apple Push Notification service (APNs) is used, the PNS- > related SIP URI parameters are set as described below. > > The value of the pn-provider URI parameter is "apns". > > Example: pn-provider =3D apns > > Spaces are not allowed in URIs unencoded, so your example is misleading. = I suggest you change it to "pn-provider=3Dapns" (i.e. delete space before a= nd after "=3D"). > > Similar comment about 2 other parameter examples defined in this section. Good catch. I will fix it (by deleting the spaces). --- > 10. pn-provider, pn-param and pn-prid URI Parameters for Apple Push > Notification service > > The value of the pn-param URI parameter is a string that is composed > by two values, separated by a period (.): Team ID and Topic. The > Team ID is provided by Apple and is unique to a development team. > > I assume it doesn't contain any periods? > > The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an > appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service > associated with the application, separated by a period (.). For VoIP > applications the service value is "voip". > > How many periods are used in the value? If your example below is correct,= can you clarify that Bundle ID itself contains periods? > > Example: pn-param =3D DEF123GHIJ.com.yourcompany.yourexampleapp.voip The Bundle ID part of the Topic typically contains periods. The Team ID, an= d the service part of the Topic, do not contain periods. Note that the Topic is actually created by Apple, and I don't even know whe= ther the Apple PNS needs to separate the Bundle ID part from the service pa= rt. And, as far as I know, we don't need to separate the parts in our proxy= implementation. We do separate the Team ID from the Topic, but we know the= first period is the separator (as the Team Id does not contain periods). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >I am agreeing with Adam's DISCUSS. > >In 8.2: > > pns-list =3D pns *(COMMA pns) > > My understanding is that COMMA (defined in RFC 3261) allows folding white= space, in particular CRLF. Do you really want this in values? It is Ok if y= ou do, I just wanted to double check. In the SIP syntax we are less strict than in some other protocols when it c= omes to folding whitespaces etc. The syntax above is very common in SIP. --- >8.7. SIP URI Parameters > > COLON =3D > > COLON is not used in this section or anywhere else in the document. I have no idea how it got there, because as far as I can remember we haven'= t used COLON in any version of the draft. I will remove it. --- >14.4.1. sip.pnsreg > > Security considerations: This media feature tag does not introduce > new security considerations, as it simply indicates support for > a basic SIP feature. If an attacker manages to remove the media > feature tag, push notifications towards the client will be > > Is "not" missing before "be"? > > requested. Correct. I will add "not". 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam, Thank You for the review! In this reply I will address the DISCUSS issue. P= lease see inline. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Thanks to everyone who is put work into defining this mechanism. I think i= t will >be very useful to have a solution for integrating push mechanisms into SIP >networks. I've identified three issues that I think need to be addressed i= n the >current document before it can move forward, and a fourth serious flaw tha= t I >call out in my comments below. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------= - > >It's nice that this document has considered the impact of inbound mid-dial= og >messages in long-lived dialogs. However, it appears to have a major hole i= n it: >handing of outbound messages for the purpose of maintaining soft-state in = those >dialogs isn't handled correctly. > >In particular: networks that deploy this mechanism will cause SUBSCRIBE >dialogs to time out and be destroyed while they are still in use. >Additionally, if RFC 4028 (session timers) is negotiated, then INVITE dial= ogs >will suffer the same fate. > >I can think of a couple of ways for these situations to be handled, but th= ey >need explicit text in the document. > >One approach would be to specify that the User Agent selects its requested >"Expires" value in its registration to be the smallest value before its se= t of >subscriptions and session timers needs to be refreshed. This would cause a= push >notification to happen to prevent registration timeout, and the client cou= ld >refresh the other soft state at that time. Complications arise if the regi= strar >responds with a 483 (Interval too Brief), and we'd need to find a solution= for >that. > >Another approach would be for the clients to refresh all soft state whenev= er >they send a registration, and set the timeout for that soft state to be eq= ual to >or greater than the registration timeout. A complication could arise if th= e >notifier or the peer in an invite dialog shortens the requested time, and = we'd >need to find a solution for that. > >A third approach would be getting the proxy involved in some way -- either= by >requiring it to observe subscription and session timer timeouts and requir= ing it >to send push notifications prior to their expiration, or by an explicit >communication between the UA and the proxy that indicates when the next pu= sh >notification should be scheduled. If the latter approach is taken, I would >suggest that it needs to be taken for REGISTER messages as well. > >I really don't think this mechanism is feasibly deployable without a solut= ion to >this problem. Based on what I've heard, the first approach (using the registration expira= tion timer also for soft states) would work with subscription refreshes. Wh= en the subscription dialog is crated, if the notifier reduces the refresh v= alue, the UA can always send a new REGISTER with that reduced value. Regarding session timers, as they are only used within INVITE initiated dia= logs, the assumption has been that the UA is awake during those sessions, a= nd I am not aware of any case where that would not apply. But, of course, n= othing prevent from using the first approach also for session timers. So, my suggestion would be to go for the first approach. At least from what= I've heard, that would work for current use-cases. Then, once we get more deployment experience, if we realize it doesn't work= we can always define new pn- parameters to explicitly negotiate push frequ= encies for different soft states etc. But I wouldn't want to do it in this = draft. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161A457B072EA7D3F76EB02938B0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Adam,<= /p>

 

Thank You for the review! I= n this reply I will address the DISCUSS issue. Please see inline.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Thanks to everyone who is put work into defining this mechanism. I thin= k it will
>be very useful to have a solution for integrating push mechanisms into = SIP
>networks. I've identified three issues that I think need to be addresse= d in the
>current document before it can move forward, and a fourth serious flaw = that I
>call out in my comments below.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----
>
>It's nice that this document has considered the impact of inbound mid-d= ialog
>messages in long-lived dialogs. However, it appears to have a major hol= e in it:
>handing of outbound messages for the purpose of maintaining soft-state = in those
>dialogs isn't handled correctly.
>
>In particular: networks that deploy this mechanism will cause SUBSCRIBE=
>dialogs to time out and be destroyed while they are still in use.
>Additionally, if RFC 4028 (session timers) is negotiated, then INVITE d= ialogs
>will suffer the same fate.
>
>I can think of a couple of ways for these situations to be handled, but= they
>need explicit text in the document.
>
>One approach would be to specify that the User Agent selects its reques= ted
>"Expires" value in its registration to be the smallest value = before its set of
>subscriptions and session timers needs to be refreshed. This would caus= e a push
>notification to happen to prevent registration timeout, and the client = could
>refresh the other soft state at that time. Complications arise if the r= egistrar
>responds with a 483 (Interval too Brief), and we'd need to find a solut= ion for
>that.
>
>Another approach would be for the clients to refresh all soft state whe= never
>they send a registration, and set the timeout for that soft state to be= equal to
>or greater than the registration timeout. A complication could arise if= the
>notifier or the peer in an invite dialog shortens the requested time, a= nd we'd
>need to find a solution for that.
><= /p>

>A third approach would be getting the proxy involved in some way= -- either by
>requiring it to observe subscription and session timer timeouts and req= uiring it
>to send push notifications prior to their expiration, or by an explicit=
>communication between the UA and the proxy that indicates when the next= push
>notification should be scheduled. If the latter approach is taken, I wo= uld
>suggest that it needs to be taken for REGISTER messages as well.
>
>I really don't think this mechanism is feasibly deployable without a so= lution to
>this problem.

Based on what I’ve heard, the first approach (using the regist= ration expiration timer also for soft states) would work with subscription = refreshes. When the subscription dialog is crated, if the notifier reduces the refresh value, the UA can always send a new RE= GISTER with that reduced value.

Regarding session timers, as they are only used within INVITE initia= ted dialogs, the assumption has been that the UA is awake during those sess= ions, and I am not aware of any case where that would not apply. But, of course, nothing prevent from using the first= approach also for session timers.

So, my suggestion would be to go for the first approach. At least fr= om what I’ve heard, that would work for current use-cases.=

Then, once we get more deployment experience, if we realize it doesn= ’t work we can always define new pn- parameters to explicitly negotia= te push frequencies for different soft states etc. But I wouldn’t want to do it in this draft.

Regards,

Christer

 

--_000_HE1PR07MB3161A457B072EA7D3F76EB02938B0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 06:58:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C51E12426E; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 06:58:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.044 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.044 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, LONGWORDS=1.844, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=qcX8ISLC; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Xo/ro19e Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w10C44vYZxLW; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 06:58:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE2EF1228B7; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 06:58:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B208823202; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 09 Jan 2019 09:58:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= message-id:from:to:cc:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:references:in-reply-to:date:subject; s=fm2; bh=KW+ Q+2KeLkPQtl+ZwgoCFx2VE/dMhGQtK4OcTYMQqFA=; b=qcX8ISLCz9R0dMAQdET hVwda4xYnpgqEJ5djzTBOTvGJW+7zJqxJpqEyccSstDnAkdRpXTZTN3aoXvgZBIM X8NPT9/2Jh+/k0JAuGQY7pGMRsflCmNWQI/ovZhRIKLz8lIywnGo/EcnvldsvRsm B96mpAUFGsoKcpCghWe4fscy3lih0ZRynAOeFZt0vRHdlx6HWoKFVlRynyvdYbDq X6zANZzuYUfNmK8nFBfR83MDcYOjhRUQs482gN0LHdU5q6e3/7CzME3wQUNlr6tL hwxuNDVmXMDWyje3B0aOxW/vZO2fg84jAMrCS0o8Oxn6Dr2A9igjcgF5kw5Twlsh KoQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=KW+Q+2KeLkPQtl+ZwgoCFx2VE/dMhGQtK4OcTYMQq FA=; b=Xo/ro19e7rLrhR3g+XpaNNG2hjjdDSvCC+ncROcm7X+LkXkUjJxoOL6px ubKN/sp1Asf976r2SMsqz7X6r9+6YNewO0pPrkA8v5ZfoDP/TAI13uKUMgXJ5vRU yPgqgoL9aKaDUNf/46lRANKurBaIfbrEovnlGXqc60qVxE9WSPsH3SH3ah/2KH+x S1KO/LsYn+QXVdhK3wrvKt6QdA47G9WRo2qHPucVepwjS0nh9ySZTK3FMizu5GZP x/ASbpherjfVWn15IapRBh+Zj9A2p8yXs0vFii6bxHzLsXBm0eTXajZ/MX9+YXV6 GS2Uv9iPf909K/QB6mLd/Ri8AmJQQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtledrfedugdejudculddtuddrgedtkedrtddtmd cutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfhuthen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkffhvfgggfgtofhfjgffufesthejredtredtjeenucfhrhhomheptehlvgig vgihucfovghlnhhikhhovhcuoegrrghmvghlnhhikhhovhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmh eqnecuffhomhgrihhnpeguvghfuddvfehghhhijhdrtghomhenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghi lhhfrhhomheprggrmhgvlhhnihhkohhvsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmnecuvehluhhsth gvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 1BF659E111; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:58:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1547045912.2691573.1629890752.6D1B0E4A@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: Christer Holmberg , The IESG Cc: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, Brian Rosen , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-5ae1f753 References: <154703521377.7454.12348610753191573496.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:58:32 +0000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:58:36 -0000 Hi Christer, I omitted the parts where we are in agreement. On Wed, Jan 9, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi Alexey, > > Thank You for the review! Please see inline. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [snip] > > 10. pn-provider, pn-param and pn-prid URI Parameters for Apple Push > > Notification service > > > > The value of the pn-param URI parameter is a string that is composed > > by two values, separated by a period (.): Team ID and Topic. The > > Team ID is provided by Apple and is unique to a development team. > > > > I assume it doesn't contain any periods? > > > > The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an > > appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service > > associated with the application, separated by a period (.). For VoIP > > applications the service value is "voip". > > > > How many periods are used in the value? If your example below is correct, can you clarify that Bundle ID itself contains periods? > > > > Example: pn-param = DEF123GHIJ.com.yourcompany.yourexampleapp.voip > > The Bundle ID part of the Topic typically contains periods. The Team ID, > and the service part of the Topic, do not contain periods. > > Note that the Topic is actually created by Apple, and I don't even know > whether the Apple PNS needs to separate the Bundle ID part from the > service part. And, as far as I know, we don't need to separate the parts > in our proxy implementation. We do separate the Team ID from the Topic, > but we know the first period is the separator (as the Team Id does not > contain periods). I think you either need to clarify that the Bundle ID can contain periods (so that if somebody wants to parse a particular pn-param value, they know to search for the last "." (*)) or you should avoid talking about internal structure altogether. Your text is sort of in between. (*) - it might not be sensible to need to parse internal structure of the value. But I can't decide one way or another without investigating Apple API for this, which I haven't done. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >I am agreeing with Adam's DISCUSS. > > > >In 8.2: > > > > pns-list = pns *(COMMA pns) > > > > My understanding is that COMMA (defined in RFC 3261) allows folding whitespace, in particular CRLF. Do you really want this in values? It is Ok if you do, I just wanted to double check. > > In the SIP syntax we are less strict than in some other protocols when > it comes to folding whitespaces etc. The syntax above is very common in > SIP. I was just surprised to see this inside a quoted strings. In email quoted strings typically either disallow spaces inside quoted strings or only allow SP, but not CRLF. But anyway, no change is needed if this was intended. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Wed Jan 9 07:26:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E5B130DE3; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:26:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, Brian Rosen , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net, sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154704757670.5000.17039213405863685065.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 07:26:16 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:26:17 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 13: "MUST ... unless" is a construct worth avoiding. From nobody Wed Jan 9 07:27:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EF8130DF6; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:27:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=dIMTTdKo; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=t4sRmmy2 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aeST5vDl41kP; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6684D130DE9; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 400BD1559; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:26:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 09 Jan 2019 10:26:56 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm2; bh=7 zwT9AaBqx40VdOU5/j0XFenhkHqblHe99+C5tTfOV8=; b=dIMTTdKoKX4dkuODX 4vjZwpJ8ZbsApxRAudhgY8m4xqg9lZgycY9r7tZ10EqPfrTdn2fpti+6dDYwpDOp mAR0qUPQ+aPR31qUYM/u649oG5ayewdqopLURjlTDRgvILZdv35FN+yAn6ZJH6fV oMwEdI777diCSX3wNJNg5qrHJvQJimDeJVoG9goWTOuhKZZtcP/Y5t0iW3MOReze P3fHj1L/FKpyeZPPm9nURPY5dmIM1ypQbAmtqpWKFzJU5sEi1ZU6aVeyGWvhdxBZ mkCPu0cMyuKpDATovMjTI8+6BJMxDGMuPsB6L6HQot1oARPvtLL0/FFgQwF8+Eq5 cFtsw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=7zwT9AaBqx40VdOU5/j0XFenhkHqblHe99+C5tTfO V8=; b=t4sRmmy2P0/PZSk6DQVocjDcLUaBTSDWNCCndWmWTg6BZLEINAYNFG+8O wLB2OP9QElaMhXpiQF37m3jna/69vwrRCUeaRuNw1YHc5Oc4JtMtmdUx7RE497DC UDhA2WZrWqPtrMC3d23oAEVkKnCPDanNaU6gicbDctvb7JahTJ+7mzL2oeD5dtvS e9YRaJZzFnY0dp+jBzBAwdpSHldMqNX/pjaEx6I9jGiWBHzkqPqybbTKT/lT0S59 ojCVXo9TA95ZG4tzXX9g54mRS330HXoCFfuapMNpYr0dlTW6TUZnUGJt2vpHJVBN Cypkk+IYVf50/VTHXX9aHm2xqoamA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtledrfedugdejjeculddtuddrgedtkedrtddtmd cutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfhuthen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurheptggguffhjgffgffkfhfvofesthhqmhdthhdtjeenucfhrhhomheptehlihhs shgrucevohhophgvrhcuoegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhnqeenucffohhmrg hinheprghpphhlvgdrtghomhdpihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdgvgigrmhhplhgvrdgtohhmnecu kfhppedujeefrdefkedruddujedrkeegnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegrlh hishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhnnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro5.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.84]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 01D98E435E; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:26:54 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <154523455825.2864.6694264562010996848@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:26:53 -0500 Cc: IETF Gen-ART , sipcore@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7A1D6973-83FB-4F14-9296-3D6428DB13B0@cooperw.in> References: <154523455825.2864.6694264562010996848@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Stewart Bryant X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:27:00 -0000 Stewart, thanks for your review. Christer, thanks for addressing = Stewart=E2=80=99s comments. I entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Dec 19, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Stewart Bryant = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Stewart Bryant > Review result: Ready with Nits >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at >=20 > . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21 > Reviewer: Stewart Bryant > Review Date: 2018-12-19 > IETF LC End Date: 2018-12-21 > IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat >=20 > Summary: A well written document with some minor points that could use = a little > attention. >=20 > Major issues: None >=20 > Minor issues: >=20 > In Figure 1 the following is included: >=20 > REGISTER sip:alice@example.com SIP/2.0 > Via: SIP/2.0/TCP = alicemobile.example.com:5060;branch=3Dz9hG4bKnashds7 > Max-Forwards: 70 > To: Alice > From: Alice ;tag=3D456248 > Call-ID: 843817637684230@998sdasdh09 > CSeq: 1826 REGISTER > Contact: pn-provider=3Dacme; > pn-param=3Dacme-param; > pn-prid=3DZTY4ZDJlMzODE1NmUgKi0K> > Expires: 7200 > Content-Length: 0 >=20 > SB> However I don't at this stage of the text see the relationship = between the > packet flow digram and the text that follows. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Contact: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) >=20 > SB> Is the whole IESG the most appropriate first point of contact? >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Nits/editorial comments: > Presumably the references to RFC XXXX will be replaced by RFC but > that does not seem to be noted in the text >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > As dicussed in [RFC4320] and [RFC4321], non-INVITE transactions must > SB> Typo s/dicussed/discussed/ >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Example: pn-prid =3D 00fc13adff78512 >=20 > For more information about the APNs Topic and device token: >=20 > SB> Is the following part of the example? If so it could usefully be = delimited > as SB> such, otherwise, I don't understand why it is not a normal = document > SB> reference. >=20 > = https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/NetworkingI > nternet/Conceptual/RemoteNotificationsPG/CommunicatingwithAPNs.html >=20 > SB> Similarly in the following section > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Jan 9 07:28:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B40130DE9 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:28:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.954 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, 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(CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547047827; bh=EUZcQgNEDxOopg/vqS0+R0oYJERexBl5RrawzO1GZhw=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=I62KYYV0X5EAr8mgyZFC5If5dsbQ0SquSjeq649YlmK24j/ePawflam+A1BpaUhAJ B+N90A1zynRX4VQv9jwA/ULYQQ4LgvU1fsP3Mq19DWpQfA56sMAO2rC8cnETzRaehW wHGCeBhYohgN8pH9tLajcmKY5+NxXjjQJEUEbLHM= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be [172.17.0.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Adam Roach X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C101) In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:30:20 -0600 Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , Brian Rosen , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3A20AC4D-D8E6-4078-8728-28E629441D0E@nostrum.com> References: To: Christer Holmberg Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issue X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:30:36 -0000 > On Jan 9, 2019, at 08:42, Christer Holmberg wrote: >=20 > Thank You for the review! In this reply I will address the DISCUSS issue. P= lease see inline. In the interest of resolving the key issues quickly, I want to point out tha= t there were three issues in my discuss. Your mail speaks to one of them.=20= /a= From nobody Wed Jan 9 07:31:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D8B112F1AC for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:31:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.954 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=diS5JQkH; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=eRgWmdD+ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SVs9LcMSswIA for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:31:07 -0800 (PST) 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draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:57:01 -0000 Hi, ... >>> Yeah, this seems like a pretty major architectural flaw in this design,= tbh, one that is=A0 >>> remedied by just using RFC 8030-style notifications that contain conten= t. >> >> Other push notification services support content too, but we decided tha= t we are not going to specify that for SIP push. >> >> IF there comes a future case, where multiple SIP usages of push notifica= tions have to co-exist, we can define usage of content (and e.g., define th= at SIP push is default). > > Just a note: This came up in WG discussion and again during the AD evalua= tion. IIRC, the consensus was to not attempt to solve the issue in this dra= ft. > > That being said, I think it would be worth including a note that the pote= ntial exists and is being punted to the future. Section 4.1 contains the following: "NOTE: If the SIP UA application wants to use push notifications for other purposes than to trigger binding-refresh requests, it needs to be able to distinguish between the different purposes when receiving push notifications. Mechanisms for doing that are outside the scope of this specification." 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR01MB2507 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 17:06:26 -0000 On 1/9/19 10:28 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> I think you need a different discovery mechanism here -- either have one that has the client offering multiple PNS protocols and the proxy responding >> with one, or have one in which the proxy indicates all of its supported services in a response, and the client chooses one to use in its next REGISTER message. > > I suggest the first option, where the client can offer multiple PNS protocols (pn-provider values) and the proxy responds with one. There could be a situation where there are multiple proxies on the path, each supporting a different mechanism. Then what happens? Does the first proxy "win", or the last one? If this starts with the proxies each indicating their support, then the client gets to choose the one he prefers. This also means the client doesn't need to include any additional information until it knows that it will be supported. Of course this requires a double registration at startup, but considering the number of register requests that will be used during the session this doesn't seem a huge burden. Thanks, Paul From nobody Wed Jan 9 09:24:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80AFB130F53 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:24:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=F+tSCBgd; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=mQ7LK7// Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w8XRci_jRHiQ for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D5E6130EB1 for ; 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x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: WHeCqQnOge2p5NhDCESUu3z8NqJZPROaV1NBjJPpVQ/DMfI2Ctg1n7EW6auQ1Hw4DN0NuEDtCehP1V+1O5MYCGY/qrs4+bEIBTvk5yRycsyY6ORon5L5syVZkrjNGe+9nInzKHZxyIYDldbO9UQnPDLlIF8UFHHcgPDbmYr7dgKeyyYYtj6AXoeDJB4I83dPhMkTzs9vWvOX/OSX2ZgU/NmElpRQ6/rmSAcWWULtW9HKc9eXToE3VGRfXcfCC7dOwSfoZfh9kOxOJObEsOyFl07slDHKUn2M8CSHcfJkxElzgrrPPzu03SR+cDuXfWMd spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 89a98221-52e0-409a-9ac9-08d6765748db X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jan 2019 17:24:17.4396 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3514 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupileLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9XNdVzyzG4N1bZYsVGw6wWnz9sYnN gcnj7/sPTB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MqYdu8Te8F17opt3y4zNzCu5Oxi5OSQEDCR WHx1GiuILSRwhFHi/0HZLkYuIPsro8SOzXfY4ZyvWz+xQDiLmST2bTkE5rAITGCWeHtjPytE ZhKTRO/n11BlDxkl3j1dB5Th4GATsJDo/qcNskREIFDi6pIJzCA1wgLtjBLHZq1kAnFEBLoY JVbuOMUMUWUlMe/bVDCbRUBFYs3hlewgNq9AjMScvtlMUOuAGq5MYAFJcAo4SGy+vxusiFFA TOL7qTVMIDazgLjErSfzmSB+FZBYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T+w6yQEFCT2bwyCCMtKXJrfzQgyX0Kg iV3iyZJv7BAJXYkPU6dC9fpKPPk0gR2i6AKjxOQpdxkhEloSP3/eYoOwsyV+7DvEDFF0kVli 0u7VUEUyEps757BBJI6zSpxo3sc0gdFgFpJrIWwdiQW7P7FB2NoSyxa+Zp4FDgJBiZMzn7As YGRZxShanFqclJtuZKyXWpSZXFycn6eXl1qyiRGYQg5u+a26g/HyG8dDjAIcjEo8vMaKZjFC rIllxZW5hxglOJiVRHirpIFCvCmJlVWpRfnxRaU5qcWHGKU5WJTEef8ICcYICaQnlqRmp6YW pBbBZJk4OKUaGFOXnJgi8C7LNTyL/W26XV3B+qYPi8IuuRdevx+4PyO1J43DpawtRXONonld n/PK9rPPVn1+NqsjROjWgcvdNnmmdk7v1UpDVJ+8mX4j9ejfp1Vimx5+uv+So235ZuPIYt9X UyZP0qxdOcH8pLDty9NP/59adVVIiG/dtT2Pjy2NNyiZq33YZKUSS3FGoqEWc1FxIgBH+egM HQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 17:24:25 -0000 Hi, >>> I think you need a different discovery mechanism here -- either have=20 >>> one that has the client offering multiple PNS protocols and the proxy r= esponding with one, or have one in=20 >>> which the proxy indicates all of its supported services in a response, = and the client chooses one to use in its next REGISTER message. >>=20 >> I suggest the first option, where the client can offer multiple PNS prot= ocols (pn-provider values) and the proxy responds with one. > > There could be a situation where there are multiple proxies on the path, = each supporting a different mechanism.=20 > Then what happens? Does the first proxy "win", or the last one? > > If this starts with the proxies each indicating their support, then the c= lient gets to choose the one he prefers. This also=20 > means the client doesn't need to include any additional information until= it knows that it will be supported. Of course this=20 > requires a double registration at startup, but considering the number of = register requests that will be used during the session=20 > this doesn't seem a huge burden. If a proxy has indicated support of push, another proxy should not do it. T= he current syntax doesn't allow it. Also, I am not aware of any scenario where there would be multiple proxies = supporting push, so I don't think it is a real-life issue. Even if a networ= k support multiple PNSs, they will all be handled by the same proxy. Regards, Christer From nobody Wed Jan 9 10:26:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C126130F34 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:26:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ldb8HknYrVWb for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:26:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59E2B130F73 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:26:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x09IQGO0045077 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:26:17 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547058378; bh=dIU//5WcbgOe3n3tVQBAQPS+953BJyHdvMzZpPlNpuY=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=tM1pVWZAS0WVW+8YpJzmSo8yxkp1cai5j5kXfxcXXPGLf5T0iSKV7WadSTGvmcLk6 77sLNNAAWkhu8UjQfCpuPfgYCIdPV+wHVLXzf7xGnk2D/UMb3DI1YgOsyOIgCzEcXA l7MOXtsbhjqNrDoBv8qRpiiofo8JUWnbgvEBUROI= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <1002A37D-28CD-4624-AC7F-308F52136F4E@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8CEFB383-B521-439D-B5C8-4F6B8D1E5B65"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:26:15 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: Eric Rescorla , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" To: Christer Holmberg References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <14B775F3-3115-47BE-AC68-BC45FCD78702@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 18:26:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8CEFB383-B521-439D-B5C8-4F6B8D1E5B65 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 9, 2019, at 9:56 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > ... >=20 >>>> Yeah, this seems like a pretty major architectural flaw in this = design, tbh, one that is >>>> remedied by just using RFC 8030-style notifications that contain = content. >>>=20 >>> Other push notification services support content too, but we decided = that we are not going to specify that for SIP push. >>>=20 >>> IF there comes a future case, where multiple SIP usages of push = notifications have to co-exist, we can define usage of content (and = e.g., define that SIP push is default). >>=20 >> Just a note: This came up in WG discussion and again during the AD = evaluation. IIRC, the consensus was to not attempt to solve the issue in = this draft. >>=20 >> That being said, I think it would be worth including a note that the = potential exists and is being punted to the future. >=20 > Section 4.1 contains the following: >=20 > "NOTE: If the SIP UA application wants to use push notifications for > other purposes than to trigger binding-refresh requests, it needs to > be able to distinguish between the different purposes when receiving > push notifications. Mechanisms for doing that are outside the scope > of this specification.=E2=80=9D Ah, right. It might be worth adding something to the effect of =E2=80=9CIf= a different push notification application is defined in the future, its = specification will need to define how to do so.=E2=80=9D before the last = sentence. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer --Apple-Mail=_8CEFB383-B521-439D-B5C8-4F6B8D1E5B65 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw2PMcACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A0uzBAAtdkFYrMrTM6rNZ2fHIJAMDEUm+jlPaMYi8cnHveWWouFEEwAO5oBaLUI 66e2wisKWMwZTA/2AdwWPrWdGGI6LNvzHVINNbaVNd8qEQfa5GOOql27VUqgHWgU sPVwNwwkYiwOvepizl/sbcfyvZUsCLZpYt9eh2hMgIkKED9JUDbLKc+41qzwIDnn 5BvJ1rhUvyrbi1VlZMdL+OIAKms317DWkPqv2Htqz0ZoSIBihLaefuOQLpMTmw0E NEWE9YTNFSMidyUANr4uucBYdZUG194lsYPS0pGns7dUevQrO74jWEi2HwS8NSHD svn8dVX0wYjeTV6Htvstvp0N4BDrreEr+PlfkqsDzZEJzMdKq3r19yk4b2E1J/7+ OI0RBX/e0vtT6Oob4Qi/HYObMslwL7ZZnQblBaucwA5eQyukyg6ahfF4GtUtQgJO 7wVc5FNSu5yP/Uo44BglF2kb2L+lnDYl39kmHZKNs1ux0tUcqzl8NzwuMBiyTNJT UVtsqMcRX5ZBLN8Ve8xnros99p38PYioVw8TFjPcqw/OIr2K9LxWiG9uKQTl6HWn 1RFEJ8otEJCeeNM3rNxmY+/H4YDAjFrBNFhJR7X+g9HOYWKucx8JvhQIPal60P+d g4qGpbn9rsdJJQpaIQpphzLsvDao9vrTZyIwvXVspO3IWS9iQo0= =uMCr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8CEFB383-B521-439D-B5C8-4F6B8D1E5B65-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 10:27:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6035C130FEA for ; 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Does the first proxy "win", or the last one? >> >> If this starts with the proxies each indicating their support, then=20 >> the client gets to choose the one he prefers. This also means the=20 >> client doesn't need to include any additional information until it=20 >> knows that it will be supported. Of course this requires a double=20 >> registration at startup, but considering the number of register requests= =20 >> that will be used during the session this doesn't seem a huge burden. > > If a proxy has indicated support of push, another proxy should not do it.= The current syntax doesn't allow it. I was mixing up the parameters. The syntax does allow indicating support of= multiple PNS. But, the procedures are based on the assumption that only one proxy inserts= PNS information, and I don't think we should change that. And, as I said in my previous e-mail, in all cases I am aware of there is a= nyway only one proxy doing the PNS stuff. 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b=meLWIKjJ2TbRHhOPGHlFy7CssHTHo9dvO6kLNHEKlwGzeVBlEAAei9ZiZ8TLAbb8j0MaDSxzK5ZPbPN0faFd9M8yl9rtZ8KCS/IBJVpRu3MXsjrrcspRrWEnMX9Glk35spxEAm21B6gb0W7VuwY3qxF2KCSjqKJ3otTq/4LAI7E= Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.245.23) by HE1PR07MB4315.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.176.167.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1516.10; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:35:03 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1516.010; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:35:03 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Christer Holmberg , Adam Roach , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , Brian Rosen , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 Thread-Index: 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/RCiGHgJL6npnHgbaBp4K7VMJJEsh7oMFrhIzalI5AVvlctyOwZ9+19+L8/zwMuQkjaBC5Os ULFKhTxVKhRRdZEDKp/71wNj/OsmsayxSEfLluZqhLL8rU5C1v5tipbVmitI2aOtZlK286NX eJUOndv9TYdqtT+JUPVLExX6ePEhGUZFiS4nsKnJWazSLyhelFSofirIqKKzN/80ojxkFhYj GwbwBehrXqOKkYiR4DEELW0zBG92EGxudwp400rAzHab1VC4nIS3s8Uk31QSsHFgpHmzgMBo Hjo0DCPEMig5OGsZ4oClsFLwwjqExDUE9I8Mk5bCHufA9+FuxEO5MD6iEfA6AjqNS1ZN4ZNQ pNFaeTGOgT5DHmXRErxHQm0ZYdE2OBim22esOcJOsDfxzJqT2BlmTY0EfykG7etpkteOsLp4 IOB5OYx0zJOWnQF7wEhPOI+4wUxjCbLsDDifhsL1TzRf+MBGdfURfxsadMd5Ro+g6Vfr0Sxv OBhooXgmBfQagmc+kPBV3UXxzDHoK9IIy5G/+r9V1YdPSHwGul758fEJqCpZoNXW6+3gfZ2J akJUB3LkWO5uWmJAgC+rTL7HcekKXwWr6kWH3+fN833/QbS6cm0UYQZJbcVSv8AYiUCexeWk jSJgSKmDONf1MBInyHNyWWV6nDIzleVGkStDSZ3FZoldjAQnylVsCstmsMp/LcHYuOQhjzth k4ZS43TF6licxrahMn4gOiw2yLP09KkW9bg5wcGkPxdUL96111eMB+ObKS5D7oFdbstf9Pv1 TU5lD4QR4U9co4OjekRT/WavXaMHl52lE+sKHLo/z18Uhni1uBs+tg86GQLe+TRNzRqWMy+t 6W7cWo+84lka3J8dMhY7IaW4JPl5b1LJyf8CBGhiHzoDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 18:50:36 -0000 SGksDQoNCi4uLg0KDQo+PiBTZWN0aW9uIDQuMSBjb250YWlucyB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nOg0KPj4g DQo+PiAgICJOT1RFOiBJZiB0aGUgU0lQIFVBIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHdhbnRzIHRvIHVzZSBwdXNo IG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbnMgZm9yDQo+PiAgIG90aGVyIHB1cnBvc2VzIHRoYW4gdG8gdHJpZ2dlciBi aW5kaW5nLXJlZnJlc2ggcmVxdWVzdHMsIGl0IG5lZWRzIHRvDQo+PiAgIGJlIGFibGUgdG8gZGlz dGluZ3Vpc2ggYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IHB1cnBvc2VzIHdoZW4gcmVjZWl2aW5nDQo+ PiAgIHB1c2ggbm90aWZpY2F0aW9ucy4gIE1lY2hhbmlzbXMgZm9yIGRvaW5nIHRoYXQgYXJlIG91 dHNpZGUgdGhlIHNjb3BlDQo+PiAgIG9mIHRoaXMgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbi7igJ0NCj4NCj4gQWgs IHJpZ2h0LiBJdCBtaWdodCBiZSB3b3J0aCBhZGRpbmcgc29tZXRoaW5nIHRvIHRoZSBlZmZlY3Qg b2Yg4oCcSWYgYSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgDQo+IHB1c2ggbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGlz IGRlZmluZWQgaW4gdGhlIGZ1dHVyZSwgaXRzIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24gd2lsbCBuZWVkIA0KPiB0 byBkZWZpbmUgaG93IHRvIGRvIHNvLuKAnSBiZWZvcmUgdGhlIGxhc3Qgc2VudGVuY2UuDQoNCkkg Y2FuIGRvIHRoYXQuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkNocmlzdGVyDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Jan 9 11:27:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E531313105D; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:27:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IHMkC0EAXmdy; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92BE0131053; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x09JR2Mg055196 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:27:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547062024; bh=hkmcVsmodAFp2lDSMVBixvau2IY+X407mVV3XGAoDQY=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=MEqgthwBS+pLroQys7uQCmktt4QR8jVTG6zdSd464vNdOfwQFBJSiwB0szsh6008R vhIDhhdmm8RmgLLwwDsqFseoVCkRdtfTGQiG/A5oS4STV5XbAM7WoAzJ7KsSm64win CMTZykFs+TxdR/ZQHIL9wJohiwY3d0VEDFBvIhcw= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_58E39ADA-A2EE-4BCC-8119-CC764B3FD489"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:27:01 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: Adam Roach , The IESG , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "br@brianrosen.net" To: Christer Holmberg References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:27:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_58E39ADA-A2EE-4BCC-8119-CC764B3FD489 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 9, 2019, at 9:28 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I realized there were DISCUSS issues that I didn't address in my = previous reply. I will address them in this reply. >=20 > =C2=A74.1: >=20 >>> For privacy and security reasons, the UA MUST NOT include the SIP = URI >>> parameters defined in this document in non-REGISTER request, to >>> prevent the PNS information associated with the UA from reaching the >>> remote peer. >>=20 >> This seems to ignore the availability of Contact URI parameters via = RFC 3680 subscriptions. This would seem to impose a requirement on = Registrars to >> strip this information before making it available to any other party = (which, in turn, requires that the system have explicit Registrar *and* = Proxy support). >> As far as I can tell, the system so far has not required explicit = proxy support (and there's certainly no mechanism built-in that ensures = that a proxy has any >> special handling regarding this mechanism). >>=20 >> If the PNS information is sensitive, and cannot be allowed to leak = out to other users, then we need some way to ensure the registrar has = provided positive >> confirmation that it will not do so before allowing it to come into = possession of them. >=20 > Users aren't normally allowed to subscribe to the Contacts of other = users, are they? As far as I know, that=E2=80=99s an operational choice, not a = requirement. One assumes that if 3680 is used, _someone_ is subscribing. > And, if they were, I don't think the PNS information is the only = information that would be considered sensitive. True, but this draft should take responsibility for the data elements = that it adds. >=20 > But, to answer your question, I don't know how to prevent that, other = than adding text to the security considerations saying that operators = must take this into consideration. I=E2=80=99m on the fence as to whether we should expect the registrar to = strip PNS, vs just mention that information can be leaked this way. The = WG might need to think a bit harder about how sensitive the PNS really = is. I think we were prohibiting it in non-REGISTER requests somewhat = opportunistically (that is, because it was easy to do), not because we = had really analyzed the privacy implications. >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > =C2=A74.2: >=20 >>> The UA can do so by only including the pn-provider SIP URI = parameter >>> in the SIP Contact header field URI of the REGISTER request, but >>> without including the pn-prid SIP URI parameter. >>=20 >> Unless I'm mistaken, this is a barrier to interoperation. >>=20 >> It's not 100% clear, but I suspect the intended implication is that = the pn-provider parameter here will contain a single value? The syntax = of the parameter >> certainly seems to imply that. This seems to be a pretty big problem, = since it presupposes that the client will know which PNSes the Proxy = supports. >> Consider, for example, an iOS client that can use any of RFC 8030, = FCM, and APN (cf = https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/ios/client). >> If the client doesn't know a priori what the proxy supports (and this = entire section only makes sense if that's true), then it won't know = which of those >> three services to indicate in its REGISTER request. If it guesses = wrong, this mechanism simply fails. >>=20 >> I think you need a different discovery mechanism here -- either have = one that has the client offering multiple PNS protocols and the proxy = responding >> with one, or have one in which the proxy indicates all of its = supported services in a response, and the client chooses one to use in = its next REGISTER message. >=20 > I suggest the first option, where the client can offer multiple PNS = protocols (pn-provider values) and the proxy responds with one. >=20 Would that require the UA to preemptively register will all possible = PNSs, even if it=E2=80=99s only going to use one? > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 --Apple-Mail=_58E39ADA-A2EE-4BCC-8119-CC764B3FD489 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw2SwUACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A311hAArDZ0gTygno0ETn3eaPTkonb+KS3IOOHUooM0BQvR4/TL9SxLb19s6vYc GXucNW7r1xEpJ8nTjFHGF1Fs2Foo66m4QwBfPob++gz1h/C26Ad9nRDSKl2ycGRF JKHBo20w4FxUYfO67TnrQJuY9pfoJB7Yqg3mECzQWfubn24d0C79PcBXMtJjpq6T BsJxhMxAye9Cf2NMicO2A0NcogF+pF4Np9AKd4YzgP2d4SDxrA8PoTLbxur+XZ8X qReY93s1R9QtYPEDI5hKerugJmauh9Dpx2nT+AQZW6pcZzOMryJS5imzLtGW/Pl1 0I85nWnKASTKPC7ZtX3Zqai7YP+t7lLmY/65N5bccvpjP2HznhYIJ9tV5r4U/Yrl fw4iQLOhpevKMqu+Imd0Ok6N5oNhN37ldULu9Cl7crRvxktFEQSlzEIoGa4C8e2T dDbr4xQxRmvAh+QtCop7skE0uai25UtFAP/GXiZZ3Ou/Gl+C03fhMzdRfDit2bRs HCMhur5pK4/Y9tt6QZJb5CJ8byikFUAezZCk2BUwXDtcOMEwblJYckG8MkCLIlSY VG43Hva0O84IZZSjUUbeWZJo7lsXEYTbl3J62DrPpRfu5cb9osjofRUDdNaCe11w 20nl8pmQU0xKcn1z5c51KGc1/ExIl4FX5irCK9iOUDywcDj2qgE= =FlaK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_58E39ADA-A2EE-4BCC-8119-CC764B3FD489-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 11:32:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDC5130F6D; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:32:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.355 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.355 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, LONGWORDS=2.035, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aK6OTV7wlmQF; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 282F5131053; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x09JWXJ5056071 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:32:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547062357; bh=watypc3TFzllWVhc0Xw0ul2YUKIBrY8ZC28MQb4Ebt4=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=d9Un2eh1vsJZ+yyH1X+7nlVwB9/ssoORTww9g8E7o1649B29C0m95pWcc+7kJFFg6 g6BP9+ZGM9e9eLBJBNgoR+dMTXb3TZS4krTVeM3/uhfstcFH0kfI0YsImsMd2GCLaG swET+9Dv2POsqb9xCkiSyKPlsxvAXgRzMqhugh9I= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8E7636D2-DA46-4854-B5D4-EC3666B7166D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:32:33 -0600 In-Reply-To: <1547045912.2691573.1629890752.6D1B0E4A@webmail.messagingengine.com> Cc: Christer Holmberg , The IESG , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org, Brian Rosen To: Alexey Melnikov References: <154703521377.7454.12348610753191573496.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1547045912.2691573.1629890752.6D1B0E4A@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:32:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8E7636D2-DA46-4854-B5D4-EC3666B7166D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 9, 2019, at 8:58 AM, Alexey Melnikov = wrote: >=20 > Hi Christer, > I omitted the parts where we are in agreement. >=20 > On Wed, Jan 9, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> Hi Alexey, >>=20 >> Thank You for the review! Please see inline. >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > [snip] >=20 >>> 10. pn-provider, pn-param and pn-prid URI Parameters for Apple Push >>> Notification service >>>=20 >>> The value of the pn-param URI parameter is a string that is = composed >>> by two values, separated by a period (.): Team ID and Topic. The >>> Team ID is provided by Apple and is unique to a development team. >>>=20 >>> I assume it doesn't contain any periods? >>>=20 >>> The Topic consists of the Bundle ID, which uniquelly identifies an >>> appliciation, and a service value that identifies a service >>> associated with the application, separated by a period (.). For = VoIP >>> applications the service value is "voip". >>>=20 >>> How many periods are used in the value? If your example below is = correct, can you clarify that Bundle ID itself contains periods? >>>=20 >>> Example: pn-param =3D = DEF123GHIJ.com.yourcompany.yourexampleapp.voip >>=20 >> The Bundle ID part of the Topic typically contains periods. The Team = ID, >> and the service part of the Topic, do not contain periods. >>=20 >> Note that the Topic is actually created by Apple, and I don't even = know >> whether the Apple PNS needs to separate the Bundle ID part from the >> service part. And, as far as I know, we don't need to separate the = parts >> in our proxy implementation. We do separate the Team ID from the = Topic, >> but we know the first period is the separator (as the Team Id does = not >> contain periods). >=20 > I think you either need to clarify that the Bundle ID can contain = periods (so that if somebody wants to parse a particular pn-param value, = they know to search for the last "." (*)) or you should avoid talking = about internal structure altogether. Your text is sort of in between. >=20 > (*) - it might not be sensible to need to parse internal structure of = the value. But I can't decide one way or another without investigating = Apple API for this, which I haven't done. >=20 Given that we don=E2=80=99t have change control over the parameters for = Apple (or any other proprietary PNS), I=E2=80=99d be very careful about = expectations to parse internal structure. These structures could change = at any time. >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >>> I am agreeing with Adam's DISCUSS. >>>=20 >>> In 8.2: >>>=20 >>> pns-list =3D pns *(COMMA pns) >>>=20 >>> My understanding is that COMMA (defined in RFC 3261) allows folding = whitespace, in particular CRLF. Do you really want this in values? It is = Ok if you do, I just wanted to double check. >>=20 >> In the SIP syntax we are less strict than in some other protocols = when >> it comes to folding whitespaces etc. The syntax above is very common = in >> SIP. >=20 > I was just surprised to see this inside a quoted strings. In email = quoted strings typically either disallow spaces inside quoted strings or = only allow SP, but not CRLF. But anyway, no change is needed if this was = intended. >=20 > Best Regards, > Alexey >=20 --Apple-Mail=_8E7636D2-DA46-4854-B5D4-EC3666B7166D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw2TFEACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A2LJQ//W7HfFV4Nm1DiYWFqgjsZ2nueh0ekzWVgCzgiLoUW37FNCznHYIzEG16K T/R5FPZFFDw/ADgF6rFLpgOCFlareEupJq8r0eLNgQ5NVII7fLcYIAt2k/Jn9LWf twQBSp131HtnFObl1PFN3dmTO06eQRQqxqYL5KBpz0HXe9QfmPILlQ5GBdcUOGY8 2qCemnDs2+5lrrOlaFJLhX5oKXYTxqx3YHU5KslmTHKpbkUomdF7pr8njKxBwSoJ HHaKirqQyg2sujlC+xxCPyLEAZTjcvy8jIaQLOjSWczRnwG+ilsb8ibOpNuwjydL b/9Rqe34bYftWAho6/BR4hUrNKZ4tdYQQ6pYGksNg+b91oVpEFfnD5m0NPqxjGih o7Sf2Cd4OIF1KeGKaaPqsbIyDTewbLNUEOpERhAWwedcLCfj0/XPtljFnxzSeGG3 zoDj0brs0cG8OkvyfVL/WtgRQ+p7sdPn/pSLmqRGM8fNKwuDaq5of3T8wjleNoMB 9lowektt5AGS6Q6+hlBngjqpDHMOGXGvkJdK2wzxreuWS3orv6LD30imMmzdkKh9 rqNxVx9dU7Xq7C9ImnTPx2b9yUlbeo88LUpMnGUs2rckC/KlB49ob5fOWxxITUrE B39n/HaXkp7lV3oBsDK1sHueBk0oDEKzk/46ig6eaWUw0Zy5ecs= =gToa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8E7636D2-DA46-4854-B5D4-EC3666B7166D-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 11:41:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A853130F49; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:41:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bwDbQDcC2Iui; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38A8612DF72; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x09JfYab057539 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:41:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547062896; bh=qCT0wM/HwSDF5elwNeZXRnWHQQ2WWXN/M9HEsFZPP3k=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=V+cdfqw+s2KWvsoj4FugN6hQEc9wskJxyuv6dsEK4RUw0FBwlOtwlZRzNKsbOqmmK QSkWX4+nqtj6dUxm1nQlbDLulT4rGNwCwWIBhV3uE7IB/PNTydVmIEJqwcuVus/iZx 5ieCFgWz9JOtJ3iUGBXsaRmg+QysNpiUdnoLHnPo= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <465FEA4A-2FE5-41EC-B64B-9AC2FF87B575@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_130A95AB-BAD8-4158-94C0-653327F8B9D8"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:41:33 -0600 In-Reply-To: <154704757670.5000.17039213405863685065.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: The IESG , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net To: Alissa Cooper References: <154704757670.5000.17039213405863685065.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:41:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_130A95AB-BAD8-4158-94C0-653327F8B9D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 9, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >=20 > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Section 13: "MUST ... unless" is a construct worth avoiding. >=20 >=20 Hi Alissa, I can see why that specific "MUST... unless=E2=80=9D may not be = appropriate, given the vagueness of the condition and the way we=E2=80=99v= e constructed =E2=80=9CMUST support/SHOULD use=E2=80=9D requirements for = TLS in the past. But are you suggesting that conditional MUSTs are never appropriate? = I=E2=80=99ve been recommended =E2=80=9CMUST ... unless...=E2=80=9D = constructions for cases where the MUST is true except in enumerated = special cases. =E2=80=9CSHOULD=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t really = accomplish the same thing, since a SHOULD as defined by 2119 allows for = exceptions beyond those enumerated in the spec. Thanks! Ben. --Apple-Mail=_130A95AB-BAD8-4158-94C0-653327F8B9D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw2Tm0ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A3k8w//UB1/xdexnAxH9bl4kTl6B9OwwZHA9JTkgf/7M6lz/Mlq9CqZAEkdnslm R5p3oX+FEZXmuV22/wymnbv6wVJMa6qi1kQSxPdOn7bUzxG2Lea7P3yZipoaDpUK Rnm+lJs8CJZBUBVH6LxR7RNPdezLZKd9Lg6cbbnPc//KVdXeYLrbdWshT263gjMl EtkTAjn0PmLEdeVaTngLF2nzbh9Cnr7Xae1gDkL7hLVTGeIWdaX0pjyoo9Wp0rMY KiuLjdG1TUw1Rb3bWfUGLIscnBw641CIvgMKZv5Xu4UrzZHPJMqtlpGhfDxGKSda hNwLp155+zJpzYE/rj8DH7CA5GXIFDWIgsZXOHx81DzAXDDjwbxbhHLL74+1J4E0 ihsCK5m5AVkXuGBjv0670AAPyRO2WK/omWL5PC4sg7S/5X9dhYuU9JcP+kvoAF2k hvDHdEAd1QiINR3eCYpmBK3uuBfwhm7qjVdEMX6oRtfqsGIQJQCAVb/EIixdeZ+f 52h8em0FYiBZFPh+4/cCQ7myu8a7XUMO9B96u3fK2GqloKozM3vCh760Ae9YdiA7 urKmAOLCvP4wa2NM08NJl0JgUECkAxOLWkqLcuQhaLdx9+7Tyhi0ROXVk1WMmZh+ qohumH6bWNQ7xkslM1W7nQNnrXcYoggWWJLYU1MquY8oO9jm7lc= =SMvC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_130A95AB-BAD8-4158-94C0-653327F8B9D8-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 11:47:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6046130F70; 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Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:47:16 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <465FEA4A-2FE5-41EC-B64B-9AC2FF87B575@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:47:15 -0500 Cc: IESG , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <725632CC-0F96-4742-917E-1A32783D4558@cooperw.in> References: <154704757670.5000.17039213405863685065.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <465FEA4A-2FE5-41EC-B64B-9AC2FF87B575@nostrum.com> To: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:47:22 -0000 > On Jan 9, 2019, at 2:41 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Jan 9, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>=20 >> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> Section 13: "MUST ... unless" is a construct worth avoiding. >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Hi Alissa, >=20 > I can see why that specific "MUST... unless=E2=80=9D may not be = appropriate, given the vagueness of the condition and the way we=E2=80=99v= e constructed =E2=80=9CMUST support/SHOULD use=E2=80=9D requirements for = TLS in the past. >=20 > But are you suggesting that conditional MUSTs are never appropriate? = I=E2=80=99ve been recommended =E2=80=9CMUST ... unless...=E2=80=9D = constructions for cases where the MUST is true except in enumerated = special cases. =E2=80=9CSHOULD=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t really = accomplish the same thing, since a SHOULD as defined by 2119 allows for = exceptions beyond those enumerated in the spec. I think =E2=80=9CMUST =E2=80=A6 unless=E2=80=9D is hard to square with = how MUST is defined in 2119. For this doc it seems like a simple re-wording would do the trick, e.g.: = TLS or a mechanism that offers equivalent security properties MUST be = used to secure the signaling. Alissa >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. 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from ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.119]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 90.05.26412.1D0563C5; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 20:51:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.165) by ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 20:51:42 +0100 Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.157) by ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 20:51:41 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=lpOSv7Y02tQMe6PcaHhsh33eQ6dAmHiAgx/QvudIsm8=; b=ey6G3D73fu0DlYbfZdfjjTl7p9koHxTiZm7fs0//B+VbJq0LUt5FccR7HGynE0UJ6odloChoaKkiih5FvX1kXZaoHSSAwi2cFzssxGRtVsclfsIFobq1/h00dCuE/eOvvgIqEEfliEUj91EGrKX7Xd+Mw/7AEUpEMtMYUT7b8p4= Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.245.23) by HE1PR07MB3196.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.246.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1516.6; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:51:40 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1516.010; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:51:40 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Ben Campbell CC: Adam Roach , The IESG , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "br@brianrosen.net" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 Thread-Index: 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boundary="Apple-Mail=_70E6A191-CE7C-4673-B3B3-B2758C6EED4F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:52:47 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: Adam Roach , The IESG , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , Brian Rosen To: Christer Holmberg References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issue X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:52:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_70E6A191-CE7C-4673-B3B3-B2758C6EED4F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_53253EF0-1628-4C6D-8123-5A385AF90AB8" --Apple-Mail=_53253EF0-1628-4C6D-8123-5A385AF90AB8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Christer, Adam, and SIPCORE chairsl: I think this point needs to go back to the work group for discussion. = There may well be some edge conditions we have not thought through, and = it=E2=80=99s probably not wise to try to do that in the context of a = telechat ballot discussion. Further, I think this may be true for some = of Adam=E2=80=99s other DISCUSS points as well as some of Ekr=E2=80=99s = points. Thanks, Ben. > On Jan 9, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi Adam, >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thank You for the review! In this reply I will address the DISCUSS = issue. Please see inline. >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > >Thanks to everyone who is put work into defining this mechanism. I = think it will > >be very useful to have a solution for integrating push mechanisms = into SIP > >networks. I've identified three issues that I think need to be = addressed in the > >current document before it can move forward, and a fourth serious = flaw that I > >call out in my comments below. > > > = >-------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- > > > >It's nice that this document has considered the impact of inbound = mid-dialog > >messages in long-lived dialogs. However, it appears to have a major = hole in it: > >handing of outbound messages for the purpose of maintaining = soft-state in those > >dialogs isn't handled correctly. > > > >In particular: networks that deploy this mechanism will cause = SUBSCRIBE > >dialogs to time out and be destroyed while they are still in use. > >Additionally, if RFC 4028 (session timers) is negotiated, then INVITE = dialogs > >will suffer the same fate. > > > >I can think of a couple of ways for these situations to be handled, = but they > >need explicit text in the document. > > > >One approach would be to specify that the User Agent selects its = requested > >"Expires" value in its registration to be the smallest value before = its set of > >subscriptions and session timers needs to be refreshed. This would = cause a push > >notification to happen to prevent registration timeout, and the = client could > >refresh the other soft state at that time. Complications arise if the = registrar > >responds with a 483 (Interval too Brief), and we'd need to find a = solution for > >that. > > > >Another approach would be for the clients to refresh all soft state = whenever > >they send a registration, and set the timeout for that soft state to = be equal to > >or greater than the registration timeout. A complication could arise = if the > >notifier or the peer in an invite dialog shortens the requested time, = and we'd > >need to find a solution for that. > > >=20 > >A third approach would be getting the proxy involved in some way -- = either by > >requiring it to observe subscription and session timer timeouts and = requiring it > >to send push notifications prior to their expiration, or by an = explicit > >communication between the UA and the proxy that indicates when the = next push > >notification should be scheduled. If the latter approach is taken, I = would > >suggest that it needs to be taken for REGISTER messages as well. > > > >I really don't think this mechanism is feasibly deployable without a = solution to > >this problem. >=20 > Based on what I=E2=80=99ve heard, the first approach (using the = registration expiration timer also for soft states) would work with = subscription refreshes. When the subscription dialog is crated, if the = notifier reduces the refresh value, the UA can always send a new = REGISTER with that reduced value. >=20 > Regarding session timers, as they are only used within INVITE = initiated dialogs, the assumption has been that the UA is awake during = those sessions, and I am not aware of any case where that would not = apply. But, of course, nothing prevent from using the first approach = also for session timers. >=20 > So, my suggestion would be to go for the first approach. At least from = what I=E2=80=99ve heard, that would work for current use-cases. >=20 > Then, once we get more deployment experience, if we realize it = doesn=E2=80=99t work we can always define new pn- parameters to = explicitly negotiate push frequencies for different soft states etc. But = I wouldn=E2=80=99t want to do it in this draft. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 --Apple-Mail=_53253EF0-1628-4C6D-8123-5A385AF90AB8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Christer, Adam, and SIPCORE chairsl:

I think this point needs to go back to = the work group for discussion. There may well be some edge conditions we = have not thought through, and it=E2=80=99s probably not wise to try to = do that in the context of a telechat ballot discussion. Further, I think = this may be true for some of Adam=E2=80=99s other DISCUSS points as well = as some of Ekr=E2=80=99s points.

Thanks,

Ben.


On Jan = 9, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Thank You for the review! In this reply I will address = the DISCUSS issue. Please see inline.

---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
DISCUSS:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

>Thanks to everyone who is put = work into defining this mechanism. I think it will
>be = very useful to have a solution for integrating push mechanisms into = SIP
>networks. I've identified three issues that I = think need to be addressed in the
>current document = before it can move forward, and a fourth serious flaw that I
>call out in my comments below.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------= ----------------
>
>It's nice that = this document has considered the impact of inbound mid-dialog
>messages in long-lived dialogs. However, it appears to = have a major hole in it:
>handing of outbound messages = for the purpose of maintaining soft-state in those
>dialogs isn't handled correctly.
>
>In particular: networks that deploy this mechanism will = cause SUBSCRIBE
>dialogs to time out and be destroyed = while they are still in use.
>Additionally, if RFC 4028 = (session timers) is negotiated, then INVITE dialogs
>will= suffer the same fate.
>
>I can think = of a couple of ways for these situations to be handled, but they
>need explicit text in the document.
>
>One approach would be to specify that the User Agent = selects its requested
>"Expires" value in its = registration to be the smallest value before its set of
>subscriptions and session timers needs to be refreshed. = This would cause a push
>notification to happen to = prevent registration timeout, and the client could
>refresh the other soft state at that time. Complications = arise if the registrar
>responds with a 483 (Interval = too Brief), and we'd need to find a solution for
>that.
>
>Another = approach would be for the clients to refresh all soft state whenever
>they send a registration, and set the timeout for that = soft state to be equal to
>or greater than the = registration timeout. A complication could arise if the
>notifier or the peer in an invite dialog shortens the = requested time, and we'd
>need to find a solution for = that.
>

>A third approach would be getting the proxy = involved in some way -- either by
>requiring it to = observe subscription and session timer timeouts and requiring it
>to send push notifications prior to their expiration, or = by an explicit
>communication between the UA and the = proxy that indicates when the next push
>notification = should be scheduled. If the latter approach is taken, I would
>suggest that it needs to be taken for REGISTER messages = as well.
>
>I really don't think this = mechanism is feasibly deployable without a solution to
>this problem.

Based on = what I=E2=80=99ve heard, the first approach (using the registration = expiration timer also for soft states) would work with subscription = refreshes. When the subscription dialog is crated, if the notifier = reduces the refresh value, the UA can always send a new REGISTER with = that reduced value.

Regarding session timers, as = they are only used within INVITE initiated dialogs, the assumption has = been that the UA is awake during those sessions, and I am not aware of = any case where that would not apply. But, of course, nothing prevent = from using the first approach also for session timers.

So, my suggestion would be to go for the first = approach. At least from what I=E2=80=99ve heard, that would work for = current use-cases.

Then, once we get more = deployment experience, if we realize it doesn=E2=80=99t work we can = always define new pn- parameters to explicitly negotiate push = frequencies for different soft states etc. But I wouldn=E2=80=99t want = to do it in this draft.

Regards,

Christer

<= /div>
= --Apple-Mail=_53253EF0-1628-4C6D-8123-5A385AF90AB8-- --Apple-Mail=_70E6A191-CE7C-4673-B3B3-B2758C6EED4F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw2UQ8ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A20SA/+PsmrOdXvpkrvuyJhjQozwwkJtPLnNEOoZ4XEH/upYUxycoYomC33qBbt 8vOtFSZIlFMOO5nMpUVO+IMVYvHwup9m7AdTx8kfe1yxSGUCk20XXdJUa+oCts6e 0QadZeXdUBLZkV+Ocr5n3kp9Rg0KYo0PEG5fQGzVLGTaPZRctiQdDwb4CSO6+bHO WOLMghT1/DZF6xFosiO1Ew4LpwaHwrDhrz1/cCKeB9KpmtY6E/NNdx/FixiOALbU r3mvhGQHXXOchGAY1zGtMvzGnEE+Y7DrkGP1CyaVTS2MZM35PKSN40AElZjW4IMI 2UEX3M0RwoaNJTfBdpJS927JchrhEaS6QPG5VzLhmlXFGQJgGUUwCXXscn5BvvUJ BAH5LhDAlKRRpIeM8yV1eZEJUaRtQcMvQ/+th26lWAxZle24JhQvXcJNLsv+xqS/ 6nHpCkG1gNSBjoly9tWNrTKci3H+Qi184NYYyi+XSLqnEyKLFcjj0NLk8kinFL7C tH40DH3jYI7QZu9O/MQfrBs4dKdU8ZO+LFfd3VZCyQ7F6lYzrxluFa8kTxYCCjOD urSoklw7TZhZ4a5naa9KxOnwCVdcgtEVcpErkyS7UKckjR5ubQJbyhJGLUuj6INU I8q3FNpb0q0dVtsvBRn1JvW1RvBndo06PtGS4zjlSzVp/6gFFPU= =BSjn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_70E6A191-CE7C-4673-B3B3-B2758C6EED4F-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 11:55:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B764F131064 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:55:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=GTnFAFPp; dkim=pass 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T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZeOrUUflZDA9; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C00E131062; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x09Jv7W0060198 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:57:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547063828; bh=JqWCaiS+zXtVveXVn5h+WeKc+3R1IrL0aX6jRWzaszo=; h=From:Subject:Date:Cc:To; b=bi+PypjvdLqA69HQrksq4GWB90eqVDqp88j3E48SpC+KznOWhf46WLS+xd73gk5tc 6aXtUwFwSA971GTse27CZ4IK7Cz4E8bIDm5W2GT7d48DaGVGGVFkHflAt/jEmHXhV9 4UqYSeUihGKTr1BEukrn+S1ktd9sInQTGdNpXIaw= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_78DEF944-768E-4D96-ABEB-CD041E18544E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:57:06 -0600 Cc: sipcore@ietf.org To: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org, The IESG , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Removing draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push from telechat agenda X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:57:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_78DEF944-768E-4D96-ABEB-CD041E18544E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, I think Adam=E2=80=99s ballot points show some points that need more = working group discussion, and that it would be unwise to try to solve = them in the context of the telechat. This may also be true of some of = Ekr=E2=80=99s and others=E2=80=99 ballots. Therefore I am removing the = draft from this week=E2=80=99s telechat agenda. Once the SIPCORE wg works through the issues, we will determine where to = go from there. Thanks, Ben. --Apple-Mail=_78DEF944-768E-4D96-ABEB-CD041E18544E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw2UhIACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A0U2RAAipe7vN+OEwGGhfuIvH10QpeoIStUCTse+B/G+G5mA4cVxWJanPp96Pht BuOOQ4sB2NuAQ7cSILnVAIaUz1gWpqO64kMepr+2quntQV2/NqlUr8hzMg0tuaU5 ZiEIaqnHz/pYjIH7fqwZRQmHgCCZWWDykQK+GwKsKuxnqyYPj9EgOgFXpsccnjP9 vctspYX4tuARO2FinPX0eUObSaaSLr0tGU7sGsMQpxLOdr10cI40vFTjtGQHULmL l67iRSxJixSkajHyyRrUa1/NraHm7aufbu5Z1OvTXtgBKx6zhb/r4aqb7VqMnZ3i aT+dJOXUsWQin3hYhb5+CwNC7AUIyANIzxTUP0PLUQhXTxvCek1+0sokGggQprhz 9xJ/oebToO5KKDI+C0TBYlHDgk4z8CF4AveCw1WB2rgwYNyXvlCamtlUAIXa8pFA v218rqqej8Cx6GyYEdHWdaWDQ70gwvcOb3ytCBpWUv4y1z6TKfNh4JyaIkqc1mGt X11kMskMIQfb63glHWSVGVo2D4gl2VUrQKDZGtbUoLBgX1NImeD+6jD1WxJd1Bpu 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Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issue X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:58:52 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB31619BC480DC53568FE1FC47938B0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNCkNhbiB5b3UgZHJhZnQgYW4gZS1tYWlsIHRvIHRoZSBsaXN0IHdpdGggYWxsIHRoZSBp c3N1ZXMgeW91IHRoaW5rIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIHRoZXJlPw0KDQpJIGFtIGZpbmUg dG8gZGlzY3VzcyBBZGFt4oCZcyBpc3N1ZSwgYnV0IEkgYW0gbm90IHN1cmUgd2hpY2ggb2YgRWty 4oCZcyBpc3N1ZXMgeW91IGFyZSB0aGlua2luZyBvZi4gQXJlIHlvdSByZWZlcnJpbmcgdG8gaGlz IGNvbW1lbnQgb24gcmUtd3JpdGluZyB0aGUgdGV4dD8NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXIN Cg0KDQpGcm9tOiBCZW4gQ2FtcGJlbGwgPGJlbkBub3N0cnVtLmNvbT4NClNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2Rh 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(PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5572E130FBE; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x09K2MlD061117 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:02:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547064144; bh=Np47if/2pEXLQxqNp+Pu8x/wMfs2/WzKw5Ai7I2yxk0=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=eNpmzgMxKsMXpzmeyuuYF02tm+5Nga6Lvi281GSMMR6OFIhiYyvI+yT7ekvIs6QtE ds1qsnan/TaFnQvg1TJWNAYzrFMHleYdSgLN6ZBlBkgBRfSQH67AOFGUAz/Xl55Txd VYHYEj13SfmFi/v2KX8R0R/HWAQ4EejPVNVSGXpg= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <1984F65E-DE94-44C2-BE1E-2A0B855A773B@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E6D5DB43-F104-4CD4-B154-72B33B8B38D5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:02:21 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: Adam Roach , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , The IESG , Brian Rosen , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" To: Christer Holmberg References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issue X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 20:02:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E6D5DB43-F104-4CD4-B154-72B33B8B38D5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_79034A7A-43A5-4652-AC39-9B2006BC02C0" --Apple-Mail=_79034A7A-43A5-4652-AC39-9B2006BC02C0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 9, 2019, at 1:58 PM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Can you draft an e-mail to the list with all the issues you think need = to be discussed there? Yes, I will do so. But it may be after the telechat. >=20 > I am fine to discuss Adam=E2=80=99s issue, but I am not sure which of = Ekr=E2=80=99s issues you are thinking of. Are you referring to his = comment on re-writing the text? Not specifically. The issues that concern me are material protocol = issues, not editorial ones. That being said, we can determine if more = editorial work needs to be done once we=E2=80=99ve worked out the = technical issues. Thanks, Ben. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 >=20 > From: Ben Campbell > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 9:53 PM > To: Christer Holmberg > > Cc: Adam Roach >; The IESG = >; sipcore-chairs@ietf.org = ; draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org = ; sipcore@ietf.org = ; Brian Rosen > > Subject: Re: Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: = (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issue >=20 > Hi Christer, Adam, and SIPCORE chairsl: >=20 > I think this point needs to go back to the work group for discussion. = There may well be some edge conditions we have not thought through, and = it=E2=80=99s probably not wise to try to do that in the context of a = telechat ballot discussion. Further, I think this may be true for some = of Adam=E2=80=99s other DISCUSS points as well as some of Ekr=E2=80=99s = points. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Ben. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jan 9, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: >=20 > Hi Adam, >=20 > Thank You for the review! In this reply I will address the DISCUSS = issue. Please see inline. >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > >Thanks to everyone who is put work into defining this mechanism. I = think it will > >be very useful to have a solution for integrating push mechanisms = into SIP > >networks. I've identified three issues that I think need to be = addressed in the > >current document before it can move forward, and a fourth serious = flaw that I > >call out in my comments below. > > > = >-------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- > > > >It's nice that this document has considered the impact of inbound = mid-dialog > >messages in long-lived dialogs. However, it appears to have a major = hole in it: > >handing of outbound messages for the purpose of maintaining = soft-state in those > >dialogs isn't handled correctly. > > > >In particular: networks that deploy this mechanism will cause = SUBSCRIBE > >dialogs to time out and be destroyed while they are still in use. > >Additionally, if RFC 4028 (session timers) is negotiated, then INVITE = dialogs > >will suffer the same fate. > > > >I can think of a couple of ways for these situations to be handled, = but they > >need explicit text in the document. > > > >One approach would be to specify that the User Agent selects its = requested > >"Expires" value in its registration to be the smallest value before = its set of > >subscriptions and session timers needs to be refreshed. This would = cause a push > >notification to happen to prevent registration timeout, and the = client could > >refresh the other soft state at that time. Complications arise if the = registrar > >responds with a 483 (Interval too Brief), and we'd need to find a = solution for > >that. > > > >Another approach would be for the clients to refresh all soft state = whenever > >they send a registration, and set the timeout for that soft state to = be equal to > >or greater than the registration timeout. A complication could arise = if the > >notifier or the peer in an invite dialog shortens the requested time, = and we'd > >need to find a solution for that. > > > >A third approach would be getting the proxy involved in some way -- = either by > >requiring it to observe subscription and session timer timeouts and = requiring it > >to send push notifications prior to their expiration, or by an = explicit > >communication between the UA and the proxy that indicates when the = next push > >notification should be scheduled. If the latter approach is taken, I = would > >suggest that it needs to be taken for REGISTER messages as well. > > > >I really don't think this mechanism is feasibly deployable without a = solution to > >this problem. >=20 > Based on what I=E2=80=99ve heard, the first approach (using the = registration expiration timer also for soft states) would work with = subscription refreshes. When the subscription dialog is crated, if the = notifier reduces the refresh value, the UA can always send a new = REGISTER with that reduced value. >=20 > Regarding session timers, as they are only used within INVITE = initiated dialogs, the assumption has been that the UA is awake during = those sessions, and I am not aware of any case where that would not = apply. But, of course, nothing prevent from using the first approach = also for session timers. >=20 > So, my suggestion would be to go for the first approach. At least from = what I=E2=80=99ve heard, that would work for current use-cases. >=20 > Then, once we get more deployment experience, if we realize it = doesn=E2=80=99t work we can always define new pn- parameters to = explicitly negotiate push frequencies for different soft states etc. But = I wouldn=E2=80=99t want to do it in this draft. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 --Apple-Mail=_79034A7A-43A5-4652-AC39-9B2006BC02C0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jan 9, 2019, at 1:58 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,
 
Can you draft an = e-mail to the list with all the issues you think need to be discussed = there?

Yes, I will do so. But it may be after the = telechat.

 
I am fine to discuss Adam=E2=80=99s issue, = but I am not sure which of Ekr=E2=80=99s issues you are thinking of. Are = you referring to his comment on re-writing the = text?

Not specifically. The issues that concern me are = material protocol issues, not editorial ones. That being said, we can = determine if more editorial work needs to be done once we=E2=80=99ve = worked out the technical issues.

Thanks,

Ben.

 
Regards,
 
Christer
 
 
From: Ben= Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 = 9:53 PM
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Cc: Adam = Roach <adam@nostrum.com>; The = IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; sipcore-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org; sipcore@ietf.org; Brian = Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
Subject: Re: Adam Roach's Discuss on = draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS = issue
 
Hi Christer, Adam, and SIPCORE chairsl:
 
I think this point needs to go back to = the work group for discussion. There may well be some edge conditions we = have not thought through, and it=E2=80=99s probably not wise to try to = do that in the context of a telechat ballot discussion. Further, I think = this may be true for some of Adam=E2=80=99s other DISCUSS points as well = as some of Ekr=E2=80=99s points.
 
Thanks,
 
Ben.
 


On Jan 9, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
 
Hi Adam,
 
Thank You for the = review! In this reply I will address the DISCUSS issue. Please see = inline.

---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
DISCUSS:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

>Thanks to everyone who is put = work into defining this mechanism. I think it will
>be = very useful to have a solution for integrating push mechanisms into = SIP
>networks. I've identified three issues that I = think need to be addressed in the
>current document = before it can move forward, and a fourth serious flaw that I
>call out in my comments below.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------= ----------------
>
>It's nice that = this document has considered the impact of inbound mid-dialog
>messages in long-lived dialogs. However, it appears to = have a major hole in it:
>handing of outbound messages = for the purpose of maintaining soft-state in those
>dialogs isn't handled correctly.
>
>In particular: networks that deploy this mechanism will = cause SUBSCRIBE
>dialogs to time out and be destroyed = while they are still in use.
>Additionally, if RFC 4028 = (session timers) is negotiated, then INVITE dialogs
>will= suffer the same fate.
>
>I can think = of a couple of ways for these situations to be handled, but they
>need explicit text in the document.
>
>One approach would be to specify that the User Agent = selects its requested
>"Expires" value in its = registration to be the smallest value before its set of
>subscriptions and session timers needs to be refreshed. = This would cause a push
>notification to happen to = prevent registration timeout, and the client could
>refresh the other soft state at that time. Complications = arise if the registrar
>responds with a 483 (Interval = too Brief), and we'd need to find a solution for
>that.
>
>Another = approach would be for the clients to refresh all soft state whenever
>they send a registration, and set the timeout for that = soft state to be equal to
>or greater than the = registration timeout. A complication could arise if the
>notifier or the peer in an invite dialog shortens the = requested time, and we'd
>need to find a solution for = that.
>

>A third approach = would be getting the proxy involved in some way -- either by
>requiring it to observe subscription and session timer = timeouts and requiring it
>to send push notifications = prior to their expiration, or by an explicit
>communication between the UA and the proxy that indicates = when the next push
>notification should be scheduled. = If the latter approach is taken, I would
>suggest that = it needs to be taken for REGISTER messages as well.
>
>I really don't think this mechanism is feasibly = deployable without a solution to
>this problem.

Based on what = I=E2=80=99ve heard, the first approach (using the registration = expiration timer also for soft states) would work with subscription = refreshes. When the subscription dialog is crated, if the notifier = reduces the refresh value, the UA can always send a new REGISTER with = that reduced value.

Regarding session timers, as they are only used within = INVITE initiated dialogs, the assumption has been that the UA is awake = during those sessions, and I am not aware of any case where that would = not apply. But, of course, nothing prevent from using the first approach = also for session timers.

So, my suggestion would be to go for the first approach. At = least from what I=E2=80=99ve heard, that would work for current = use-cases.

Then, once we get more deployment experience, if we realize = it doesn=E2=80=99t work we can always define new pn- parameters to = explicitly negotiate push frequencies for different soft states etc. But = I wouldn=E2=80=99t want to do it in this draft.

Regards,

Christer

=
= --Apple-Mail=_79034A7A-43A5-4652-AC39-9B2006BC02C0-- --Apple-Mail=_E6D5DB43-F104-4CD4-B154-72B33B8B38D5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw2U00ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A1pxhAAhI5BGmj8V/+JTMltDelJd0TeEXgM/D1EeS1zaeygEQHCv6eOFrJnhda9 r3Yg8uilbTt9uyAeWB8Ej1DsS5FmJ2Ll0tvTTykekvUh37yqvwC909FiiFT6soQX Gj4TaGDvEzQHMJHjQaEarPerwsOIu5TqMhQQDCqx4tOD+oY/Fj1pZuzoGmNGzwYj gdxwYCw3PF/eyiucUhz9mudbXZ8LhliDMu2FucCqWxapBglAFaVb9/JhIbeEz8KH 4ILQ+bxoESriF9xJYOHsRbxNV0VyQGEkpCfQPce/uNLNS8DJc/J657NWlFfrOm7w iB8MRwPCwqUv6HzLy2XtZeXSkUQOtdadQDnS5WI1m3ZgDQRELBxvhY0J+mT/Jd3S HHghkNzcMndBh30mT26/Xy7QVGcFdKus9lHjQNKu5l49t98WTziaUCuCVGhSCVVW GJRSDtP1sYvak1Gj13dXCPg66CO+cUxlv9tbNCTWIEZnqQYowBD0O5hjt+PJb+jE qYArvgjHPSiGqB/Z9agvq0VUO40oYT3RDBPyC7hseGxpyPc9Dhbsi55/su8Ut34s 5SvrZ6ZLf+x/IKgkSdBIGMGROG7lz1yRxKCMf2RPovj6mPyTGjSpuCXhqewJMBEN kDONT3ehcJnJYVh9vvsCMakkB9edMxSf702+Qen88pS1pxAbLN8= =icRv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E6D5DB43-F104-4CD4-B154-72B33B8B38D5-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 14:08:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369D812DD85 for ; 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR01MB4805 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 22:08:26 -0000 On 1/9/19 2:41 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > I can see why that specific "MUST... unless” may not be appropriate, given the vagueness of the condition and the way we’ve constructed “MUST support/SHOULD use” requirements for TLS in the past. > > But are you suggesting that conditional MUSTs are never appropriate? I’ve been recommended “MUST ... unless...” constructions for cases where the MUST is true except in enumerated special cases. “SHOULD” doesn’t really accomplish the same thing, since a SHOULD as defined by 2119 allows for exceptions beyond those enumerated in the spec. "MUST X unless Y" is equivalent to "If not Y then MUST X". The latter seems perfectly fine to me. Because the former is equivalent I see no reason to forbid it. I think which one is clearest may depend on the situation. 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN2PR01MB2031 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 22:16:28 -0000 On 1/9/19 12:24 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>> I think you need a different discovery mechanism here -- either have >>>> one that has the client offering multiple PNS protocols and the proxy responding with one, or have one in >>>> which the proxy indicates all of its supported services in a response, and the client chooses one to use in its next REGISTER message. >>> >>> I suggest the first option, where the client can offer multiple PNS protocols (pn-provider values) and the proxy responds with one. >> >> There could be a situation where there are multiple proxies on the path, each supporting a different mechanism. >> Then what happens? Does the first proxy "win", or the last one? >> >> If this starts with the proxies each indicating their support, then the client gets to choose the one he prefers. This also >> means the client doesn't need to include any additional information until it knows that it will be supported. Of course this >> requires a double registration at startup, but considering the number of register requests that will be used during the session >> this doesn't seem a huge burden. > > If a proxy has indicated support of push, another proxy should not do it. The current syntax doesn't allow it. > > Also, I am not aware of any scenario where there would be multiple proxies supporting push, so I don't think it is a real-life issue. Even if a network support multiple PNSs, they will all be handled by the same proxy. That seems unfortunate. It may be that there is no single proxy implementation that supports all the different, while there might not be a single PNS that all the clients support. What is the deployment to do in that case? Deploying multiple proxies on the path, supporting different PNSs would be a solution. It wouldn't be too burdensome because only the chosen one would need to stay on the path. But apparently that option is currently not supported. 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boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB31614EA7E8BAEB6DC07FAD0D93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0d7f83b3-e22c-4838-44cd-08d676ddcd0a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jan 2019 09:27:11.7654 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3499 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA01SbUhTYRjlvXfbvYrD1znzQftiIZWirmG5H5L2JwwTFMNSBjb1puKcsqmk QiwRja1ypkIzY1ZDbYSVBEoZ6bAfmpgpC81CMUOGOU3TrWzatrvIf+ec5zznOS+8NCkwc8Po ImU5o1LKFSKeP8dwqa86eiMwXiae7omQdj8b5Eo3nb28JCLZtbpGJJtMv4g0Its/IZ9RFFUy qtjTl/0Lt58vUWV26dXNuhukBi3EapEfDTgOVm4auVrkTwvwMIKB0XkOS7YQfLfc+U8mdJMk S0wEDK82Uh7CwXoSfqxbfQHNBBiHHxKeZAFeQNBlztIimuZhKeh2ojyyEKeD1aT3JgXjBrfl 4UvkIUKsRfC4f5T0LAjxWbANpnggB0dAnYXy7PKxDGaeOin2loGAEWcP8gz8cBL8vGX1YoT3 gWP0ibcDiUPh06KRYF+KwTTwnmRxCNi+7nBZvxzemOd9+mFo0YzwWHwAJo06bzfAtRRYNbd9 g2hYa2319gScCn2NqaxnAsGGfdzniYSuOR3F4mL4aOjjsaYPJLgetfga7YdXtU2UHsW27Snb 5s4lcSm0z3hlPg6CEcMih7XEwHRrC4/FUdD5YJlkcTTc3bFw9uodiDKjEDWjzi0pkEhiGFVR nlpdqoxRMuW9yP2Dhl5si/uRbemMBWEaiQL4GY5TMgFXXqmuKrEgoEmRkP+5yy3x8+VV1Yyq NEdVoWDUFhROc0Sh/D+CIJkAF8jLmWKGKWNU/6YE7RemQbnLsxVifr1zJS9tcUqvVGTalVH3 U76shnX8no8L3u68+Fo2drw3M+vbZvOQI91hT9tIeNeZW9MtMWe2ixqy566/PRmYcy1aNJu4 00DWaA9Jzu8ea59JvOcaZ+IsrgCBbcksU+yKr+jij4ZvTwVGnrNlbK1nHKnPCLqga3KNHRRx 1IXyE5GkSi3/C7q898Y9AwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:27:21 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB31614EA7E8BAEB6DC07FAD0D93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >>>>> I think you need a different discovery mechanism here -- either have >>>>> one that has the client offering multiple PNS protocols and the proxy >>>>> responding with one, or have one in which the proxy indicates all of = its >>>>> supported services in a response, and the client chooses one to use i= n >>>>> its next REGISTER message. >>>> >>>> I suggest the first option, where the client can offer multiple PNS pr= otocols >>>> (pn-provider values) and the proxy responds with one. >>> >>> There could be a situation where there are multiple proxies on the path= , each >>> supporting a different mechanism. >>> Then what happens? Does the first proxy "win", or the last one? >>> >>> If this starts with the proxies each indicating their support, then the= client gets >>> to choose the one he prefers. This also means the client doesn't need t= o include >>> any additional information until it knows that it will be supported. Of= course this >>> requires a double registration at startup, but considering the number o= f register >>> requests that will be used during the session this doesn't seem a huge = burden. >> >> If a proxy has indicated support of push, another proxy should not do it= . The current >> syntax doesn't allow it. >> >> Also, I am not aware of any scenario where there would be multiple proxi= es supporting >> push, so I don't think it is a real-life issue. Even if a network suppor= t multiple PNSs, they >> will all be handled by the same proxy. > >That seems unfortunate. It may be that there is no single proxy >implementation that supports all the different, while there might not be >a single PNS that all the clients support. What is the deployment to do >in that case? Deploying multiple proxies on the path, supporting >different PNSs would be a solution. It wouldn't be too burdensome >because only the chosen one would need to stay on the path. > >But apparently that option is currently not supported. Yes, it is. If a proxy receives a REGISTER with an indication of a PNS that= it does not support, the current solution DOES allow it to forward the REG= ISTER request, if it "knows" that another proxy might support the PNS. But, some operators do not want the REGISTER to reach the registrar if no p= roxy supports the PNS. So, an operator can configure its network to act in a desired way. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31614EA7E8BAEB6DC07FAD0D93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


>>>>> I think you need a different = discovery mechanism here -- either have
>>>>> one that has the client offering multiple PNS protocol= s and the proxy 
>>>>> responding with one, or have = one in which the proxy indicates all of its 
>>>>> supported services in a respo= nse, and the client chooses one to use in 
>>>>> its next REGISTER message. >>>>
>>>> I suggest the first option, where the client can offer mul= tiple PNS protocols 
>>>> (pn-provider values) and the prox= y responds with one.
>>>
>>> There could be a situation where there are multiple proxies on= the path, each 
>>> supporting a different mechanism.
>>> Then what happens? Does the first proxy "win", or th= e last one?
>>>
>>> If this starts with the proxies each indicating their support,= then the client gets 
>>> to choose the one he prefers. This al= so means the client doesn't need to include 
>>> any additional information until it k= nows that it will be supported. Of course this
>>> requires a double registration at startup, but considering the= number of register 
>>> requests that will be used during the= session this doesn't seem a huge burden.
>> 
>> If a proxy has indicated support of push, another proxy should not= do it. The current 
>> syntax doesn't allow it.
>>
>> Also, I am not aware of any scenario where there would be multiple= proxies supporting 
>> push, so I don't think it is a real-life = issue. Even if a network support multiple PNSs, they 
>> will all be handled by the same proxy. >
>That seems unfortunate. It may be that there is no single proxy
>implementation that supports all the different, while there might not b= e
>a single PNS that all the clients support. What is the deployment to do=
>in that case? Deploying multiple proxies on the path, supporting
>different PNSs would be a solution. It wouldn't be too burdensome
>because only the chosen one would need to stay on the path.
>
>But apparently that option is currently not supported.

Yes, it is. If a proxy receives a REGISTER with an= indication of a PNS that it does not support, the current solution DOES al= low it to forward the REGISTER request, if it "knows" that anothe= r proxy might support the PNS.

But, some operators do not want the REGISTER to re= ach the registrar if no proxy supports the PNS.

So, an operator can configure its network to act i= n a desired way.

Regards,

Christer


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Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:32:45 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1516.015; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:32:45 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHUqC+3QDfMPGEAZ0mnLg1FLCJqFKWnVkaAgAApAoCAAL3ZIw== Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:32:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154704757670.5000.17039213405863685065.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <465FEA4A-2FE5-41EC-B64B-9AC2FF87B575@nostrum.com>, <1bddaf14-b1aa-486c-7b14-f3a133b03240@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <1bddaf14-b1aa-486c-7b14-f3a133b03240@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >> I can see why that specific "MUST... unless=94 may not be appropriate, g= iven the >> vagueness of the condition and the way we=92ve constructed =93MUST suppo= rt/SHOULD use=94 >> requirements for TLS in the past. > > But are you suggesting that conditional MUSTs are never appropriate? I= =92ve been > recommended =93MUST ... unless...=94 constructions for cases where the MU= ST is true > except in enumerated special cases. =93SHOULD=94 doesn=92t really accompl= ish the same > thing, since a SHOULD as defined by 2119 allows for exceptions beyond tho= se enumerated in the spec. I would be fine with "SHOULD Y =85 unless X" - if X was the ONLY allowed ex= ception for not doing Y. But, as Paul suggests, people seem to have different opinions on that. In any case, this is not SIP push specific, and should probably be discusse= d (once again...) elsewhere. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161FE6CDEA9B96297F0564D93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

>> I can see why that specific "MUST...= unless=94 may not be appropriate, given the 
>> vagueness of the condition and the way we= =92ve constructed =93MUST support/SHOULD use=94 
>> requirements for TLS in the past.
>
> But are you suggesting that conditional MUSTs are never appropriate?&n= bsp; I=92ve been 
> recommended =93MUST ... unless...=94 construc= tions for cases where the MUST is true 
> except in enumerated special cases. =93SHOULD= =94 doesn=92t really accomplish the same 
> thing, since a SHOULD as defined by 2119 allo= ws for exceptions beyond those enumerated in the spec.

I would be fine with "SHOULD Y =85 unless X&q= uot; - if X was the ONLY allowed exception for not doing Y. 

But, as Paul suggests, people seem to have differe= nt opinions on that. 

In any case, this is not SIP push specific, and sh= ould probably be discussed (once again...) elsewhere.

 Regards,

Christer


--_000_HE1PR07MB3161FE6CDEA9B96297F0564D93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Thu Jan 10 05:01:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F76130F1F; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 05:01:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, Brian Rosen , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net, sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154712527624.30740.15579011923851366083.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 05:01:16 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_dra?= =?utf-8?q?ft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 13:01:16 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- One question on the new PNS registry: I don't quite understand why the policy is "Specification Required". I guess you need some description of the values for pn-provider, pn-param and pn-prid. However, you could just add these fields to the registry directly (with the option to just provide a reference in at least the param and prid fields if the description is rather extensive). However, for e.g. RFC8030 is would easily be possible to describe everyhing you need within the registry. For apns and fcm you can simply add a pointer to this new RFC if you think the description is too long to be included in the registry directly. But this could make registration for new simple services easier. And one minor comment on some language: Should these sentence in 3.1 and 5.2 maybe be normative as well: "If a SIP UA receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA can discard the payload, but the UA will still send a binding-refresh REGISTER request." e.g NEW "If a SIP UA receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA can discard the payload, but the UA MUST still send a binding-refresh REGISTER request." "A proxy will not request push notifications towards a UA that has not provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter." e.g. NEW "A proxy MUST NOT request push notifications towards a UA that has not provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter." It seems like these sentences are on purpose not normative (maybe because as they are part of a note...?), however, I think it would be more clear to state those requirements normatively as well. Otherwise if you think these requirement are described normatively somewhere else in the doc, I think a forward reference would be good (I didn't double-check myself). nits: - maybe s/consider the interval too small/consider the interval too short/ - maybe s/response Section 8.1/response (see Section 8.1)/ - s/proxy receives a receives a SIP/proxy receives a SIP/ From nobody Thu Jan 10 05:48:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0122130F02 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 05:48:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mirja, Thank You for the review! Please see inline. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >One question on the new PNS registry: >I don't quite understand why the policy is "Specification Required". I gue= ss >you need some description of the values for pn-provider, pn-param and pn-p= rid. >However, you could just add these fields to the registry directly (with th= e >option to just provide a reference in at least the param and prid fields i= f the >description is rather extensive). However, for e.g. RFC8030 is would easil= y be >possible to describe everyhing you need within the registry. For apns and = fcm >you can simply add a pointer to this new RFC if you think the description = is >too long to be included in the registry directly. But this could make >registration for new simple services easier. >And one minor comment on some language: >Should these sentence in 3.1 and 5.2 maybe be normative as well: >"If a SIP UA > receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA can > discard the payload, but the UA will still send a binding-refresh > REGISTER request." >e.g NEW >"If a SIP UA > receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA can > discard the payload, but the UA MUST still send a binding-refresh > REGISTER request." I was thinking that since the presence of payload don't have any impact on = the normative procedures, a MUST is not needed. But, I am fine to modify as= suggested. >"A proxy > will not request push notifications towards a UA that has not > provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter." >e.g. NEW >"A proxy > MUST NOT request push notifications towards a UA that has not > provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter." In this case I'd prefer to keep the existing text, because the normative pr= oxy procedures are described elsewhere. But, as you suggest below, I can add a reference. >It seems like these sentences are on purpose not normative (maybe because = as >they are part of a note...?), however, I think it would be more clear to s= tate >those requirements normatively as well. Otherwise if you think these >requirement are described normatively somewhere else in the doc, I think a >forward reference would be good (I didn't double-check myself). > >nits: >- maybe s/consider the interval too small/consider the interval too short/ >- maybe s/response Section 8.1/response (see Section 8.1)/ >- s/proxy receives a receives a SIP/proxy receives a SIP/ I will fix as suggested. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161F69D7D65191435456C2C93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mirja,


Thank You for the review! Please = see inline.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>One question on the new PNS registry:
>I don't quite understand why the policy is "Specification Required= ". I guess
>you need some description of the values for pn-provider, pn-param and p= n-prid.
>However, you could just add these fields to the registry directly (with= the
>option to just provide a reference in at least the param and prid field= s if the
>description is rather extensive). However, for e.g. RFC8030 is would ea= sily be
>possible to describe everyhing you need within the registry. For apns a= nd fcm
>you can simply add a pointer to this new RFC if you think the descripti= on is
>too long to be included in the registry directly. But this could make >registration for new simple services easier.


>And one minor comment on some language:
>Should these sentence in 3.1  and 5.2 maybe be normative as well:<= br> >"If a SIP UA
>   receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA can=
>   discard the payload, but the UA will still send a binding-refre= sh
>  REGISTER request."
>e.g NEW
>"If a SIP UA
>   receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA can=
>   discard the payload, but the UA MUST still send a binding-refre= sh
>   REGISTER request."

I was thinking that since the presence of payload = don't have any impact on the normative procedures, a MUST is not needed. Bu= t, I am fine to modify as suggested.


>"A proxy
>   will not request push notifications towards a UA that has not >   provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter."
>e.g. NEW
>"A proxy
>   MUST NOT request push notifications towards a UA that has not >   provided a pn-prid SIP URI parameter."

In this case I'd prefer to keep the existing text,= because the normative proxy procedures are described elsewhere.

But, as you suggest below, I can add a reference.

>It seems like these sentences are on purpose n= ot normative (maybe because as
>they are part of a note...?), however, I think it would be more clear t= o state
>those requirements normatively as well. Otherwise if you think these >requirement are described normatively somewhere else in the doc, I thin= k a
>forward reference would be good (I didn't double-check myself).
>
>nits:
>- maybe s/consider the interval too small/consider the interval too sho= rt/
>- maybe s/response Section 8.1/response (see Section 8.1)/
>- s/proxy receives a receives a SIP/proxy receives a SIP/

I will fix as suggested.

Regards,

Christer

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Based on Adam's COMMENTs, I have updated the pull request used for the gen-= art/sec-dir/ops-dir/IESG reviews. The commit can be found at: https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31/commits/4392202c287bc2b24a3= 1c99de819aa050fcdd6b0 Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31612DD02E9BD1D223D0576393840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


Based on Adam's COMMENTs, I have = updated the pull request used for the gen-art/sec-dir/ops-dir/IESG reviews.=


The commit can be found at:


https://g= ithub.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31/commits/4392202c287bc2b24a31c99de819= aa050fcdd6b0


Regards,


Christer


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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >>And one minor comment on some language: >>Should these sentence in 3.1 and 5.2 maybe be normative as well: >>"If a SIP UA >> receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA can >> discard the payload, but the UA will still send a binding-refresh >> REGISTER request." >>e.g NEW >>"If a SIP UA >> receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA can >> discard the payload, but the UA MUST still send a binding-refresh >> REGISTER request." > >I was thinking that since the presence of payload don't have any impact on= the normative >procedures, a MUST is not needed. But, I am fine to modify as suggested. I was looking at the text, and since it's a note I'd like to keep the exist= ing text. And, in this case, since the normative procedures are defined in the same s= ection, I guess there is no need for a reference. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31615C87FFA6C8E6F98E4FA593840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


>>And one minor comment on some language:

>>Should these sentence in 3.1  and 5= .2 maybe be normative as well:
>>"If a SIP UA
>>   receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA= can
>>   discard the payload, but the UA will still send a binding-r= efresh
>>  REGISTER request."
>>e.g NEW
>>"If a SIP UA
>>   receives a push notification that contains a payload the UA= can
>>   discard the payload, but the UA MUST still send a binding-r= efresh
>>   REGISTER request."
>
>I was thinking that since the presence of pa= yload don't have any impact on the normative 
>procedures, a MUST is not needed. But, I am = fine to modify as suggested.

I was looking at the text, and since it's a note= I'd like to keep the existing text.

And, in this case, since the normative procedure= s are defined in the same section, I guess there is no need for a reference= .

Regards,

Christer

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Based on Mirja's COMMENTs, I have updated the pull request used for the rev= iew changes. The commit can be found at: https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31/commits/09b15c74b76091d0f7e= 56edd5fa31c90ee4daafe Note that the following change was also requested by another reviewer, and = will be fixed in the commit associated with that review: "maybe s/response Section 8.1/response (see Section 8.1)/" Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161D6B3292266FA32282C3E93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


Based on Mirja's COMMENTs, I have= updated the pull request used for the review changes.


The commit can be found at:


https://g= ithub.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31/commits/09b15c74b76091d0f7e56edd5fa3= 1c90ee4daafe



Note that the following change wa= s also requested by another reviewer, and will be fixed in the commit assoc= iated with that review:


"maybe s/response Section 8.1/response (see Section 8.1)/"



Regards,


Christer



--_000_HE1PR07MB3161D6B3292266FA32282C3E93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Thu Jan 10 07:35:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3012C129BBF for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 07:35:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.043 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.043 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mitprod.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYjJxwqPhDi9 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 07:35:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM03-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr800119.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.80.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 020A51311B3 for ; 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR01MB5532 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 15:35:24 -0000 On 1/10/19 4:27 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >>That seems unfortunate. It may be that there is no single proxy >>implementation that supports all the different, while there might not be >>a single PNS that all the clients support. What is the deployment to do >>in that case? Deploying multiple proxies on the path, supporting >>different PNSs would be a solution. It wouldn't be too burdensome >>because only the chosen one would need to stay on the path. >> >>But apparently that option is currently not supported. > > Yes, it is. If a proxy receives a REGISTER with an indication of a PNS > that it does not support, the current solution DOES allow it to forward > the REGISTER request, if it "knows" that another proxy might support the > PNS. What if the client supports multiple PNSs, and doesn't know which is supported by this registrar and associated proxies? Can it indicate support for multiple PNSs - allowing the proxies to choose which one to use? Thanks, Paul > But, some operators do not want the REGISTER to reach the registrar if > no proxy supports the PNS. > > So, an operator can configure its network to act in a desired way. > > Regards, > > Christer > > From nobody Thu Jan 10 09:09:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F97130EBF for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:09:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.843 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.843 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=VCMdZ+nW; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=UZwTuUgw Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3shNTv38fUza for ; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >>>That seems unfortunate. It may be that there is no single proxy >>>implementation that supports all the different, while there might not be >>>a single PNS that all the clients support. What is the deployment to do >>>in that case? Deploying multiple proxies on the path, supporting >>>different PNSs would be a solution. It wouldn't be too burdensome >>>because only the chosen one would need to stay on the path. >>> >>>But apparently that option is currently not supported. >> >> Yes, it is. If a proxy receives a REGISTER with an indication of a PNS >> that it does not support, the current solution DOES allow it to forward >> the REGISTER request, if it "knows" that another proxy might support the >> PNS. > >What if the client supports multiple PNSs, and doesn't know which is >supported by this registrar and associated proxies? Can it indicate >support for multiple PNSs - allowing the proxies to choose which one to us= e? The current pn-provider syntax does not allow it, but Adam suggested that w= e should allow the UA to indicate support of multiple PNS. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB316138B2F3A12283CF084BC993840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


>>>That seems unfortunate. It may be that there is no single proxy
>>>= ;implementation that supports all the different, while there might not be
>>>= ;a single PNS that all the clients support. What is the deployment to do
>>>= ;in that case? Deploying multiple proxies on the path, supporting
>>>= ;different PNSs would be a solution. It wouldn't be too burdensome
>>>= ;because only the chosen one would need to stay on the path.
>>>= ;
>>>= ;But apparently that option is currently not supported.
>>
>> Yes, it is. If a proxy receives a REGISTER with an indication of a PNS >> that it does not support, the current solution DOES allow it to forward >> the REGISTER request, if it "knows" that another proxy might sup= port the
>> PNS.
>
>What if the client supports multiple PNSs, and doesn't know which is
>support= ed by this registrar and associated proxies? Can it indicate
>support for multiple PNSs - allowing the proxies to choose which one to use?

The current pn-provider syntax does n= ot allow it, but Adam suggested that we should allow the UA to indicate sup= port of multiple PNS.

Regards,

Christer


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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR01MB4810 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the DISCUSS issues Part 2 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:25:08 -0000 On 1/10/19 12:09 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >>What if the client supports multiple PNSs, and doesn't know which is >>supported by this registrar and associated proxies? Can it indicate >>support for multiple PNSs - allowing the proxies to choose which one to use? > > The current pn-provider syntax does not allow it, but Adam suggested > that we should allow the UA to indicate support of multiple PNS. That would help. Then, if more than one PNS is supported, but by different proxies, then IIUC: - the request MAY get passed along to the first proxy that supports one of the named PNSs. It will take it and the others are not considered. - OR, a proxy that supports a different PNS than any the client supports may reject the request without allowing a later proxy to accept it. Do I have that right? 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Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:25:52 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Alexey Melnikov , The IESG CC: "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the pull request commit Thread-Index: AQHUqQmJwsK/4ixJaUaG5YRaun528g== Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:25:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154703521377.7454.12348610753191573496.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1547045912.2691573.1629890752.6D1B0E4A@webmail.messagingengine.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB3196; 6:bsqkcG0Ptyf/Bi8aAUOwUUWC+vVHz8f0b+vZtXpiTWUNeUWAbA56aigAVzoioAcTIbyWkVBwJYbZwkicTlKHMOhrhcsc6esGx4fmGK4dwlgxsc0HRn/6j5clBCBechnwojhX9WSaVlqsBHS23vMclXgL+LYrjQVW7qHJUrFlj66slz4DR5iqVFT/DdNv5icz5lNQAS+JiIZ5oKVBPpBaS06nXN+v9wxaqqRc13bBR+/7yZ/b8oaw0nNMSzYCN2EfWLw6ChpbYgPa8qaGhNOx/oa+btlGZeAU5FsR6J6Z1u85cYmoUUdYFZEyrA2dB2fwVrmFObGqOsHutkhm4kuLKA7eF4+QsjHdivqo/IpCTcIanWF9J/i49kfJZHvNZJFhgSR+a+uLmJQhKJUFP0PKPuGgf6tb4eagBk22fiFjD3pAGbxWbjB1ZpYSSLMPNg/mbWOkBIcO6YvWQxqaTu4kng==; 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boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB3161204ED4DE93883D0F903E93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: aef3c53d-e86c-425a-c67a-08d67720ac1b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jan 2019 17:25:52.7632 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3196 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Se0hTcRTH+d17d3c1pz/XzJMWycgkxdnDdERFUpgERhA9zEUtvaj4ZNc0 DWKaRWjBJi7U8pVDw8JUxEfma0k5wawENbGyNFlvl2iFuvLuLvC/zznf7/d3zoEfQ0o7RF5M Qko6q0lRJ8lpZ6rkVGtGoFwbqto2M42V3T9MhDJ37j6hLF7Sk8qbc1Wkcv53E71fFNE+0ENH GI1/iKPEaec9sWxSQgarCdp3zjl+tr6aSLsivXhjshBpUTnOR04M4GDoKrFQ+ciZkeI+BCM9 I2KhWEDwfLJTJBRGAlpvm2m+oLCOBGPvU4LPS3EhATXVXoLrA4LqN7MreYahsRIKbAE8ynA4 vB8N4y0kbkTQnD9I8tm1WIugrz6RF2Q4B8GSrZ3iBRlWwLK+zj6Awr6wZHko5lmCVZBnbXSs 1EbAtPWbXXDCZ8A6VmYPI7wOfg08sIdJ7Anj0xWEcCkG4+MhUmAP+DRlEwl+NXTXTTr6PlCk 5c/keSO8qihA/DDAuWIYstxyPBQIswaDIxAJ84M1lGB6gaAs55pYEPyh5Xu/I5AILXVdtGB6 ScLbNqtD2AAduXqxDgWVrtpW4FRo0D8iS+1nu4O5ZJoS+goYMxTRAgdATdUXUuBAKLaZqNX9 SiSuQx4cy51PjtuxU8FqEmI4LjVFkcKmN6GVL9XbvOjbhoa/hpkQZpDcRbL+cqhKKlJncFnJ JgQMKZdJJmpDVFJJrDorm9WkntVcSGI5E/JmKLmnZEnqrpLiOHU6m8iyaazmv0owTl5atEkj zwyHpq1uhpm9FoV8c5xk16HXkXOs211bp86P4sxMmu/B7GNPYnxyDcO6k4eVwbX5ruWeW3bT P6k1aearSX5t4vBLze8q3F2M1ZXav8/yjsTpFypaF+8pMnU4+gCir0e3LDdERUWN3/Ge138M sXzuZybcXKfST4x2yY53yCkuXr3dn9Rw6n+ch5C3TgMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the pull request commit X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:25:59 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB3161204ED4DE93883D0F903E93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Based on Alexey's DISCUSS and COMMENTs, I have updated the pull request wit= h the review changes. The commit can be found at: https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31/commits/efcb6f0dea222c5c9dc= caf0381216c3cf34be766 Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161204ED4DE93883D0F903E93840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


Based on Alexey's DISCUSS and COM= MENTs, I have updated the pull request with the review changes.


The commit can be found at:


https://g= ithub.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31/commits/efcb6f0dea222c5c9dccaf038121= 6c3cf34be766


Regards,


Christer


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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >>>What if the client supports multiple PNSs, and doesn't know which is >>>supported by this registrar and associated proxies? Can it indicate >>>support for multiple PNSs - allowing the proxies to choose which one to = use? >> >> The current pn-provider syntax does not allow it, but Adam suggested >> that we should allow the UA to indicate support of multiple PNS. > >That would help. Then, if more than one PNS is supported, but by >different proxies, then IIUC: > >- the request MAY get passed along to the first proxy that supports one >of the named PNSs. It will take it and the others are not considered. Correct. >- OR, a proxy that supports a different PNS than any the client supports >may reject the request without allowing a later proxy to accept it. Correct. >Do I have that right? Yes. That is also what the current procedures say. However, they only talk about= the UA indicating support of a single PNS, so we would need to change that= to allow the UA to indicate support of multiple PNS. Regards, Christer Thanks, Paul --_000_HE1PR07MB31618376118EBEECD6813DD493840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

>>>What if the client supports multiple PNSs, and doesn't know which is
>>>= ;supported by this registrar and associated proxies? Can it indicate
>>>= ;support for multiple PNSs - allowing the proxies to choose which one to use?
>>
>> The current pn-provider syntax does not allow it, but Adam suggested
>> that we should allow the UA to indicate support of multiple PNS.
>
>That would help. Then, if more than one PNS is supported, but by
>differe= nt proxies, then IIUC:
>
>- the request MAY get passed along to the first proxy that supports one
>of the named PNSs. It will take it and the others are not considered.

Correct.

>- OR, a proxy that supports a different PNS than any the client supports >may reject the request without allowing a later proxy to accept it.

Correct.

>Do I have that right?

Yes. 

That is also what the current procedures say. Howe= ver, they only talk about the UA indicating support of a single PNS, so we = would need to change that to allow the UA to indicate support of multiple P= NS.

Regards,

Christer



        Thanks,
        Paul
--_000_HE1PR07MB31618376118EBEECD6813DD493840HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Thu Jan 10 09:46:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23EDD1311B4; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:45:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alexey Melnikov To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org, Brian Rosen , sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net, sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154714235707.30756.14864474918276352110.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:45:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:45:57 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for addressing my DISCUSSes and comments. 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Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:16:06 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mirja_K=FChlewind?= , The IESG CC: "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?iso-8859-1?Q?[sipcore]_Mirja_K=FChlewind's_No_Objection_on_draft-ietf-s?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ipcore-sip-push-21:_(with_COMMENT)_-_the_registration_issu?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?e?= Thread-Index: AQHUqZaqtb1xEqnSEkWjvblBC8o/rA== Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:16:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154712527624.30740.15579011923851366083.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154712527624.30740.15579011923851366083.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB3196; 6:O6WIGsOJ5roOOn3g/FWwPubesDzmpKQoZzEK00CmlS0gEEa6lXyrD+M83El8YhEwXwfFe66fewDd2cNnGqCx9GdZgcNchwxvdPD5nuqp+14w45ya0D1yQ8942W241vTuYFzdlOb+cDkz0L5+P8CvARV2ShXZzVe6X2MKELMGmtcjXDhyvnRpbLEdrKz9pqiwocwHbG0/HHaZ1dSDLSMcj1Vz29BHLRct7nYvHj6ucSLn/MXFCe+aYujUFT3O4CWzaz9NMUEtyUfBrTrQVdY7yMm0xXT6pW0d9SZmphFsUUz9u030hAQz1RUltHqCmOMVYTtkLGyXte6hX9yTyX/FCvJfN4BP8xDE8uABFJ/FvFK3s/H8VBnrnGqxrLRU4u0Ccl4zty5JK8THLpYnM9L6UhsmpGy88J9/LYN797VaelmkiucLipDeRiGp6QTKENjuzKVV7usSLjq488VqI2/suA==; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB3196; H:HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: ER12QSKvBV6zLpMdFxsn+WpBcMdJz12I3ixNQhTTNvNKLiyLchE5BIoPOr5BiyZ/RiuCsBWNLITg7jKVS+eB0+ZCP7PB+zRO/D6UcaOzzxIvBym6gjcj62ZK6dQ36g7WHQEATqm6BQqXnvJObq0DMO4ogEs5kMec728MlySDdakV0k/ai0LZpdUnp6iBuwga4p59DClku/RvV3/h84WZeyVftEIXjDooCLSSra8WXfdaWMss/288zrhiyjURYRYJY563fkC4XirlC9vyLCFI9Oi+Od3WO3XxgdS0heMzGnS5nLVBExeQjtAGqXSsYaPWDQbQAffMfQ0asGv1h+IQyVARjNdDkHMBAgVAoKcyqNJEfqxnCGiO0gwyLFS1oVO/WcM3H0HykAbIrVHnEbRHGKciAMbD4WCoEFuJvZMY2aA= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB3161F8B9331C46F6354A715B93850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fa7fa332-032b-4b57-e493-08d677adccc8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Jan 2019 10:16:06.6608 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3196 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Se0hTYRjG+c5tx9Hgc3l5cQYyupDiNEsclbGgPyzQboIiQo086PDKjtW0 iHkpdLIyU5iGtxhmakRDspwXnEpaplZGFqh5SReBKeYlM8ntTPC/3/O8l+f94GNJaSvtw2rS MjltmjpFzoip8tgWbaA9RRkfPGuUKXOXGgmlaeM+qbR/XiSVxqVaUrm8ZmFUdITZ/IeIyF+s pc8RceLjCVyK5hqnDTpxWZxk6fhNZ7T76eo2aD36LjMgNxbwEbAWGEkDErNS3IMgb3UeCWIF QW/Ve0oQZgKWu/MIh6BwMQlvp9pooVJCQI+1FzmWSfEUgoXFgwbEsgxWQtFmgMP2wLFQVdHk XEvi5wiaDe+cgbuxdStjqIxxCA/chqBtXS8SRhQwMF7pZArvA9PQIOnYKsHxUPMoXAiLggnz M9rBbvgstM70OY9A2AtW3zQRDiaxN3ydqSaEl2Iwtw2RAnvCj+lNWuhXQ2fDN5fvB6X6fkbg PfChush5NeBcEbQb7oiEQiAslJW5BiJheqSFEZqGEVTmbDf5w4v5PldyMph+fXEN+ILBUuLa OknD+Os1phgpKnZcK3A65A5O0A6WYHfoL5+hBF8Bo2WljMABUFf7kxQ4EEybNmqnX4NEDciT 53g+NTEkRMFpNVd4Pj1NkcZlWtDWj+pq/nv0JeqaO2lDmEXyXZKV88p4Ka2+xmel2hCwpNxD Qp/asiQJ6qxsTpt+SXs1heNtSMZScm/JhtQ9XooT1ZlcMsdlcNrtKsG6+ehR4d1PD3OMBU90 o4fribF/jUx3purphdmwe4FsjNh+UdVZ+UoXqYoZiwwfj60OipL6lhdpwvShA9kHbgQ/6Gig yFvhvfa+hOWOyWHPldsd0UP7m455esWNiBLlhvzrpwtbPvZbz8huhkJjfvQq83jOsK4K4/yq 3WX1eyPVZo1OTvFJ6kP+pJZX/wf0BzzdTQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] =?iso-8859-1?q?Mirja_K=FChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_d?= =?iso-8859-1?q?raft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29_-_the_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?registration_issue?= X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:16:12 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB3161F8B9331C46F6354A715B93850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I realized I forgot to address Mirja's comment regarding the registration e= arlier. Sorry for that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >One question on the new PNS registry: >I don't quite understand why the policy is "Specification Required". I gue= ss >you need some description of the values for pn-provider, pn-param and pn-p= rid. >However, you could just add these fields to the registry directly (with th= e >option to just provide a reference in at least the param and prid fields i= f the >description is rather extensive). However, for e.g. RFC8030 is would easil= y be >possible to describe everyhing you need within the registry. For apns and = fcm >you can simply add a pointer to this new RFC if you think the description = is >too long to be included in the registry directly. But this could make >registration for new simple services easier. I doubt it is enough to figure out how to use a PNS just by looking at the = format of the pn- parameter values - and that includes RFC8030. You will ne= ed a specification that defines the actual procedures. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161F8B9331C46F6354A715B93850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

I realized I forgot to address Mirja's comment regarding the registrat= ion earlier. Sorry for that.

--------------------------------------------------= --------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>One question on the new PNS registry:
>I don't quite understand why the policy is "Specification Required= ". I guess
>you need some description of the values for pn-provider, pn-param and p= n-prid.
>However, you could just add these fields to the registry directly (with= the
>option to just provide a reference in at least the param and prid field= s if the
>description is rather extensive). However, for e.g. RFC8030 is would ea= sily be
>possible to describe everyhing you need within the registry. For apns a= nd fcm
>you can simply add a pointer to this new RFC if you think the descripti= on is
>too long to be included in the registry directly. But this could make >registration for new simple services easier.

I doubt it is enough to figure out how to use a PN= S just by looking at the format of the pn- parameter values - and that incl= udes RFC8030. You will need a specification that defines the actual procedu= res.

Regards,

Christer 

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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, So, how to move forward? Can I, or can I not, use "MUST =85 unless"? Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 11:32 AM To: Paul Kyzivat; sipcore@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-sipcore-s= ip-push-21: (with COMMENT) Hi, >> I can see why that specific "MUST... unless=94 may not be appropriate, g= iven the >> vagueness of the condition and the way we=92ve constructed =93MUST suppo= rt/SHOULD use=94 >> requirements for TLS in the past. > > But are you suggesting that conditional MUSTs are never appropriate? I= =92ve been > recommended =93MUST ... unless...=94 constructions for cases where the MU= ST is true > except in enumerated special cases. =93SHOULD=94 doesn=92t really accompl= ish the same > thing, since a SHOULD as defined by 2119 allows for exceptions beyond tho= se enumerated in the spec. I would be fine with "SHOULD Y =85 unless X" - if X was the ONLY allowed ex= ception for not doing Y. But, as Paul suggests, people seem to have different opinions on that. In any case, this is not SIP push specific, and should probably be discusse= d (once again...) elsewhere. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161834E9D817871D39D5C7693850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

So, how to move forward? Can I, or can I not, use "MUST =85 unles= s"?

Regards,

Christer


From: sipcore <sipcore-b= ounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@er= icsson.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 11:32 AM
To: Paul Kyzivat; sipcore@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-si= pcore-sip-push-21: (with COMMENT)
 


Hi,

>> I can see why that specific "MUST.= .. unless=94 may not be appropriate, given the 
>> vagueness of the condition and the way = we=92ve constructed =93MUST support/SHOULD use=94 
>> requirements for TLS in the past.
>
> But are you suggesting that conditional MUSTs are never appropriate?&n= bsp; I=92ve been 
> recommended =93MUST ... unless...=94 constr= uctions for cases where the MUST is true 
> except in enumerated special cases. =93SHOU= LD=94 doesn=92t really accomplish the same 
> thing, since a SHOULD as defined by 2119 al= lows for exceptions beyond those enumerated in the spec.

I would be fine with "SHOULD Y =85 unless X= " - if X was the ONLY allowed exception for not doing Y. 

But, as Paul suggests, people seem to have diffe= rent opinions on that. 

In any case, this is not SIP push specific, and = should probably be discussed (once again...) elsewhere.

 Regards,

Christer


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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear push lovers, As part of the IESG review, Adam raised an issue that needs to be discussed= on the list. What is it about? Adam suggested that a UA, when it does a query of network PNS support, shou= ld be allowed to indicate support of *multiple* PNS. Currently the pn-provi= der syntax only supports a single value, and the text is written assuming t= here is only a single value. What would the change be? Modify the pn-provider syntax to allow multiple value, and allow the UA, wh= en it does a query, to indicate support of multiple PNS. When the UA actually wants to use a PNS (and also includes its PRID), it wo= uld only indicate a single PNS - as currently defined in the draft. The proxy procedures would remain the same, i.e., if the proxy supports a P= NS indicated by the UA it inserts the associated parameters, and if it does= n't it sends a 555 response. The text would only be modified to indicate th= at the UA might include support of multiple PNS. Does anyone have an issue with such modification? Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31615FC1BC734FE33A213CD993850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear push lovers,


As part of the IESG review, Adam = raised an issue that needs to be discussed on the list.


What is it about?


Adam suggested that a UA, when it= does a query of network PNS support, should be allowed to indicate support= of *multiple* PNS. Currently the pn-provider syntax only supports a single= value, and the text is written assuming there is only a single value.


What would the change be? 


Modify the pn-provider syntax to = allow multiple value, and allow the UA, when it does a query, to indicate s= upport of multiple PNS.


When the UA actually wants to use= a PNS (and also includes its PRID), it would only indicate a single PNS - = as currently defined in the draft.


The proxy procedures would remain= the same, i.e., if the proxy supports a PNS indicated by the UA it inserts= the associated parameters, and if it doesn't it sends a 555 response. The = text would only be modified to indicate that the UA might include support of multiple PNS.


Does anyone have an issue with su= ch modification?


Regards,


Christer

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear fans of push, As part of the IESG review, Adam raised an issue that needs to be discussed= on the list. What is it about? As defined in the draft, some of the pn- parameters included in the Contact= header field URI of the REGISTER request are considered "sensitive". Not b= ecause they necessarily reveal user information, but because they could pot= entially be used to trigger malicious push notifications towards a UA. Adam noted that, if someone else subscribes to the reg event package (RFC 3= 680) of a UA, that someone else could get hold of the pn- parameters (if th= e Contact information is included in the associated NOTIFY request). What do I think? In my personal opinion this is more of an RFC 3680 issue than a push issue.= Because, the contact of a UA could also contain other information (non-pus= h related) that is considered sensitive, e.g., the private IP address and p= ort of a UA. Therefore, I would assume that registrars have some kind of control of who = is allowed to subscribe to a given user's reg event. For example, in IMS the S-CSCF has a list of users authorized to subscribe = to the reg event package for a user. Each UA associated with the user, and = network nodes within the trust domain of the S-CSCF, are authorized to subs= cribe. Other users, and non-trusted network nodes, are NOT authorized. Having said that, I do think it would be good to address this issue in the = draft. What is the suggestion? My suggestion is to add additional text to the draft (Security Consideratio= ns) that highlights the RFC 3680 issue, and that operators that deploy SIP = push need to make sure the push related information is not shared with non-= trusted entities. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31614A9A6D73CA43D85F75B493850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear fans of push,


As part of the IESG review, Adam raised an issue that needs t= o be discussed on the list.


What is it about?


As defined in the draft, some of the pn- parameters included = in the Contact header field URI of the REGISTER request are considered &quo= t;sensitive". Not because they necessarily reveal user information, bu= t because they could potentially be used to trigger malicious push notifications towards a UA.


Adam noted that, if someone else subscribes to the reg event = package (RFC 3680) of a UA, that someone else could get hold of the pn- par= ameters (if the Contact information is included in the associated NOTIFY re= quest).



What do I think?


In my personal opinion this is m= ore of an RFC 3680 issue than a push issue. Because, the contact of a UA co= uld also contain other information (non-push related) that is considered se= nsitive, e.g., the private IP address and port of a UA. 


Therefore, I would assume that r= egistrars have some kind of control of who is allowed to subscribe to a giv= en user's reg event.


For example, in IMS the S-CSCF h= as a list of users authorized to subscribe to the reg event package for a u= ser. Each UA associated with the user, and network nodes within the trust d= omain of the S-CSCF, are authorized to subscribe. Other users, and non-trusted network nodes, are NOT authoriz= ed.


Having said that, I do think it = would be good to address this issue in the draft.



What is the suggestion?


My suggestion is to add addition= al text to the draft (Security Considerations) that highlights the RFC 3680= issue, and that operators that deploy SIP push need to make sure the push = related information is not shared with non-trusted entities.



Regards,


Christer


--_000_HE1PR07MB31614A9A6D73CA43D85F75B493850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Fri Jan 11 10:46:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9926512870E for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:46:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.031 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.031 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 36iFjSh6oMPV for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x431.google.com (mail-pf1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6339127AC2 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x431.google.com with SMTP id y126so7355302pfb.4 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:46:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sIWZt3nlYrde5XBJnr3r2sCbURSccIrcVaA/25TL9sM=; b=bapY/WzrIPU5RQv9TmZB9oW6XUX7pQKLdwgrbK3f5fCWK2X6ujwJlyjfyUBPDaaNI3 dtnCAx9XsoVd1tLF7l+xhYxIpsb22iWRKWma68S29HocmYZ1pguGPZ7+JO1904KMQkhr hhNBgpb5oKfyAatJgY+U9ECJQVLjf0B3hj9aB4ZasOOeBq0MrP72w4O9hHJ0hrZ3imLF DIWmkCKxCcHEG+ME6x2sTftZk0f71tWzGUshYpVEEMgEYPHzBCFb0LE6jmfadekgjcCV wM9DQyRr3+zlIXutktCLjLBAfDDYWT/xXl4f4CPfsrABgRkhEawOea52kb/vxrtPZMRi ii3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sIWZt3nlYrde5XBJnr3r2sCbURSccIrcVaA/25TL9sM=; b=t9JimuII2gH5G4k1QgbWmr7Mr8XQYzYi7lYyWelj44tLzXAXpuVPWEuXsCjhZGweEk u/KEzBsM6kcPCWzfftGHjfCfbKKDWkjn7tYNjG7uS4fn5nxXZOqnYH2kZYmmM5WNrMpo tokNklXVn1CGsuWGWUJrpE+QZYb0RwMgd0YoCHCf230TwvW0UB6oIHwZZfSxBkr72i3J KvHZsec4vUGntnTd9Eno8rq9iwSeQ2M95tNVT2BAkBTpWN8vwrN6cO163Umo/KhcTf3c zBLCinKsjyJXE3bw5y+wy+dOvz2Bo9Lh/mxaucCebmrQ1prFUwChVxegoCyajqCxj21z ZXVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfk/1ox1vVWhUbBu6vj1ANnj0tH8UhzPoUGpcFRcDwFSCZa0ESO Sz+wZQm1fO44pgxKpMoL3ZDyL7i+XF4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7Pf5r+BUYIqJ6yWw94HEXaamjLOK1TaBnqE4oItddPRDbQEmBeK3io9FZRV5Z3Q3ui/F0wOg== X-Received: by 2002:a65:624c:: with SMTP id q12mr4306292pgv.379.1547232361237; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com (mail-pf1-f175.google.com. [209.85.210.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c7sm160115071pfh.18.2019.01.11.10.46.00 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:46:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id z9so7354569pfi.2 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:46:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a63:df13:: with SMTP id u19mr12212082pgg.294.1547232360103; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:46:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:45:47 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell , "adam@nostrum.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003583df057f331b16" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: push parameters sent to non-trusted endpoints X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 18:46:04 -0000 --0000000000003583df057f331b16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 9:23 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > My suggestion is to add additional text to the draft (Security > Considerations) that highlights the RFC 3680 issue, and that operators that > deploy SIP push need to make sure the push related information is not > shared with non-trusted entities. > > > I agree. I think listing this issue in Security Considerations should be sufficient. _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000003583df057f331b16 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 9:23 AM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

My suggestion is to add additional text to the draft (Security Considerat= ions) that highlights the RFC 3680 issue, and that operators that deploy SI= P push need to make sure the push related information is not shared with non-trusted entities.



I agree. I think listing this issue in Security Con= siderations should be sufficient.
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--0000000000003583df057f331b16-- From nobody Fri Jan 11 10:54:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD1C128766 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.031 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.031 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oK5cCvxBSzmb for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x434.google.com (mail-pf1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 353C11286D9 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x434.google.com with SMTP id z9so7364413pfi.2 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/7/ZIAUMZD12Jq0/tUEoFRLNI7DRVlUeZQMcHwwnIsI=; b=D+XEAMyL/etl2eVQK1ntDYiwMS+nV3l0PiSZn57Bj+xxUK6Zdjr12nPony5aqYHQRU dj3eJXm7C80U+yvbLfhsgR8CabZKO46sQEd/osWbu7NTg3RzBvOYUu1/wVGw6gzTuKdK ZFNHjYDBdzT/esEiQHU+raIgVSfhVk1KYfoJmh+jesBTDMfZvVE6xVTEiC3cFJMpuWII k9JmVZoRlKQnaCP6TdQea6kPwTxZldtAzb7Lf9Or1TEuvQDwtNYFT6b+5L64vviR4gL8 LPeMD/wpN5YdHBGK/OhbB3Ns18ZZhmnFyka9tZo90AcO3/Dq0sAjQe4SrhiN/9FIhBR3 mqBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/7/ZIAUMZD12Jq0/tUEoFRLNI7DRVlUeZQMcHwwnIsI=; b=Ek0bESxVzRUoAkRdOCUStnYahK9MNGGjJs3fzK02X2yAkKIiIz6cQQp107hBCL4c7O pu+8G0ovMHBmxSDr2SG+ie2dFdt1CYEj+kKYiRorjwYbI5afAk7rqBCHVGZdP2+Smorr BHqXCgIfRWiMubJyRc9y4jkCuGITbxIHHO+l11uHZHI65ipVoQ/OeKqj06eP+pupUU87 zAPcFeDm3uGh6m/GMIypIQs4DNxu1AAJqZ8TNsZPnvt5zvlYgnspZpL1wXrW49tRqjLL 54uLxldN6ZxMNUcCN0TiIBoaqn5V0wnBz93o4uGFTf0YMGsbxsmJVPNXWyDA1LeEhbWQ K6PQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfrm/p/XoXpw53oW4hlFpDy9aj4+X02GS4DdjBAuchsU56W1aEg oqZ59zCOFW7Vz+lJ/7cQQlah0QIg5qs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4ymVMo3gcp5BQsvu3RPpPrS2r8EEGt7XC2KC4OpPGmXMdGKayyEuxKsNsls26q54vrsUPY5A== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6215:: with SMTP id d21mr14469081pgv.289.1547232875567; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-f169.google.com (mail-pl1-f169.google.com. [209.85.214.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 125sm140884028pfx.159.2019.01.11.10.54.34 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-f169.google.com with SMTP id u18so7144398plq.7 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:34 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6909:: with SMTP id j9mr15269329plk.196.1547232874425; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:54:21 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell , "adam@nostrum.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dd774b057f33395b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: UA indicating support of multiple PNS X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 18:54:38 -0000 --000000000000dd774b057f33395b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 7:28 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > What would the change be? > > > Modify the pn-provider syntax to allow multiple value, and allow the UA, > when it does a query, to indicate support of multiple PNS. > > > When the UA actually wants to use a PNS (and also includes its PRID), it > would only indicate a single PNS - as currently defined in the draft. > > > The proxy procedures would remain the same, i.e., if the proxy supports a > PNS indicated by the UA it inserts the associated parameters, and if it > doesn't it sends a 555 response. The text would only be modified to > indicate that the UA might include support of multiple PNS. > > > Does anyone have an issue with such modification? > I do not think this change would break anything and this can prove to be useful in the future, especially when clients will try to migrate to a newer version of the push notification service and will need to specify support for both legacy and new service. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000dd774b057f33395b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 7:28 AM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

What would the change be?=C2=A0


Modify the pn-provider syntax= to allow multiple value, and allow the UA, when it does a query, to indica= te support of multiple PNS.


When the UA actually wants to= use a PNS (and also includes its PRID), it would only indicate a single PN= S - as currently defined in the draft.


The proxy procedures would re= main the same, i.e., if the proxy supports a PNS indicated by the UA it ins= erts the associated parameters, and if it doesn't it sends a 555 respon= se. The text would only be modified to indicate that the UA might include support of multiple PNS.


Does anyone have an issue wit= h such modification?


I do n= ot think this change would break anything and this can prove to be useful i= n the future, especially when clients will try to migrate to a newer versio= n of the push notification service and will need to specify support for bot= h legacy and new service.

Regards,
__________= ___
Roman Shpount
=C2= =A0
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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR01MB4020 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: UA indicating support of multiple PNS X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:02:06 -0000 On 1/11/19 1:54 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 7:28 AM Christer Holmberg > > > wrote: > > What would the change be? > > > Modify the pn-provider syntax to allow multiple value, and allow the > UA, when it does a query, to indicate support of multiple PNS. > > > When the UA actually wants to use a PNS (and also includes its > PRID), it would only indicate a single PNS - as currently defined in > the draft. > > > The proxy procedures would remain the same, i.e., if the proxy > supports a PNS indicated by the UA it inserts the associated > parameters, and if it doesn't it sends a 555 response. The text > would only be modified to indicate that the UA might include support > of multiple PNS. > > > Does anyone have an issue with such modification? > > > I do not think this change would break anything and this can prove to be > useful in the future, especially when clients will try to migrate to a > newer version of the push notification service and will need to specify > support for both legacy and new service. This is introducing a negotiation between client and the network servers to find a mutually supported PNS. IMO this is a good thing, because both clients and networks are likely to support multiple, and the one(s) mutually supported may not be known a priori. But, as currently defined, it appears that this will require a *single* server in the network to support all the PNSs. ISTM that there may well be cases where a single server implementation doesn't support all PNSs, and to acquire support a provider may have to deploy multiple proxies to cover all the PNSs that clients might desire. This could be made to work, but the details of the protocol negotiation will need to be adjusted to do so. Also, if client and provider have multiple PNSs in common, who should get to decide which one will be used? Thanks, Paul From nobody Fri Jan 11 13:21:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B455128CE4 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:21:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.031 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.031 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H4Zjx9_E8vOB for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x536.google.com (mail-pg1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6D3F128B14 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x536.google.com with SMTP id w6so6822899pgl.6 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:21:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=DonGc8DzEg7vsvz7FO18JHjjL+DJxPu4VwxEZVvw5QA=; b=jTNQhdSOUW+abyGPtK7NXll2o9tytKwbKGgXx11iApEXUn2foyH65Jn7rliB5G1gDd X1+66NSR678diX/N0Y903AvVh5WHWC68dE/FkNk8uX7/8vT2QrlircL2AC6mgu9pnA0v Tgx95djqo2snV/qBfYYvr7vf8LHy0skdwXQf0cC185D78Zp2Kh09EkAivzCX23rqbQhm kbdwVAIVYK3WvMImJcWXy2Vf0vUwMlNhC7mqNYXMvqY6GIvWD+mm3p8YlsV0wD+23LY+ cCFvEZjO1/FTHZlMraE9Fml+yF7HG97vtnd7/Wdm0iZCq+ipK9PPckgRytBV/bAAWClG zIxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=DonGc8DzEg7vsvz7FO18JHjjL+DJxPu4VwxEZVvw5QA=; b=mh5HsVxfa5OFgrrTULfwi0Z74M5e4vm2WCEwe9URrpPwlLdRgdpjgz8k5F/fYC9Ri5 fMLQwSgyGxIIN0GLu1HpCO4sceeBfhZPQkXwYsMpwqT0jrSLkGNdOb2Vri2/H0gv6IwQ RG0zrppcOep+1sDh+SqO2q/ECL2GNE4kgMMgmUPgdEm5LHbAOsJLyIe0klW50MJep7f2 yWiMxWlM7MCaEh+H+i3C2D1sqbyUfqJhyPbsDZspnd2uAweyXbMqtBxxe2A0GSsmEqLB SQ863Uot68EYA6bEdPJbPs8BE3/ehxlIFx/3Qj2Ib8HhakfA9BWx/Kd6gMAvilq30ra1 Piwg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukez2pVIVMm8Anq58niAM3goSsgfNQNnGdggvDD5N2sAyJouNF03 xd1f5sxft2tDp4iHxL2pXLlvzggybYQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7Du/iTIYWaODHQyzlOmv6hppz9jb8CTtm+wgz8qfeqfjjV7sWZvDV8oywShWTE13IkwiKUOA== X-Received: by 2002:a62:f247:: with SMTP id y7mr16158793pfl.25.1547241712192; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-f179.google.com (mail-pf1-f179.google.com. [209.85.210.179]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a90sm142711904pfj.109.2019.01.11.13.21.51 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:21:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-f179.google.com with SMTP id h3so7533511pfg.1 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:21:51 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a62:1b50:: with SMTP id b77mr16231502pfb.36.1547241711234; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:21:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:21:38 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009475fa057f35480b" Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] display-name ABNF rule is incorrect in RFC 3261 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:21:55 -0000 --0000000000009475fa057f35480b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi All, The name-addr ABNF rule in RFC 3261 specifies: name-addr = [ display-name ] LAQUOT addr-spec RAQUOT addr-spec = SIP-URI / SIPS-URI / absoluteURI display-name = *(token LWS)/ quoted-string Based on this, LWS is always required between token and the "<" and the following Name-Address value is invalid: foo At the same time https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3261#section-20.10 says: There may or may not be LWS between the display-name and the "<". This implies that foo should be acceptable. Based on this, should the display-name rule be updated to be: display-name = token *(LWS token)/ quoted-string Should I file an errata or was this ever corrected in subsequent RFC? Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000009475fa057f35480b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi All,

The name-addr = ABNF rule in RFC 3261 specifies:

name-addr      =3D  [ display-name ] LAQ=
UOT addr-spec RAQUOT
addr-spec      =3D  SIP-URI / SIPS-URI / absoluteURI
display-name   =3D  *(token LWS)/ quoted-string

Based on this, LWS is always required between token an= d the "<" and the following Name-Address value is invalid:
=

There may or may not be= LWS between the display-name and the=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0"<".

This implies th= at foo<sip:foo@bar.com> shou= ld be acceptable.

Based on this, should the displa= y-name rule be updated to be:

display-name   =3D  token *(LWS token)/ quo=
ted-string

Should I file an errata or was this eve= r corrected in subsequent RFC?

Regards,
_____= ________
Roman Shpount
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Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:22:18 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: UA indicating support of multiple PNS Thread-Index: AQHUqaj1C7xS9gX/DE+xum2mmK++DaWqas2AgAAjp4CAAARTyA== Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:22:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <9e6a84df-8e70-632a-3333-e36210072960@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <9e6a84df-8e70-632a-3333-e36210072960@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB4425; 6:MrFULl+xN882voOq/xPhaxuiL+/wLk77QSgkD2cSlBkynF1q8eoEz/ghu2ZXrpzHrJIuYWl0EkYtMuNeBIHvGxDRnfQ3K23yIHNsyhA3YPR05giDOA4nf0GdljIpzklUuvE93ZvfwYJQuR4ZTxDE44PGYwNneckmkcndUh61NJUsmXCviFCDlCvyTy8qlJD9eGUJ9k9HbwaWg7M23RvwxA7Dx7jY8wGohDAVzkn48LPu4CFAo05+MR8rHOde12Jea597qLjizVhZHlHEx6Ni2U+Ko/vogNluUcRbhBO/zukFLSOsxM96b+rfw6ucsTA2xcEHEJkq0GyPqNbTBkM7BwGQGx969zjj1NbdYss24xIHu1ON/jQGi5CX1PXqVXbCIBrTGop6ky71EOcZIMgVcCH+CH90PNxUVkNgtaGPpqbseyst+jQbd3BqrXbPv8kOXryCuQMUvEWWDFxHEopUaA==; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >>> What would the change be? >>> >>> >>> Modify the pn-provider syntax to allow multiple value, and allow th= e >>> UA, when it does a query, to indicate support of multiple PNS. >>> >>> >>> When the UA actually wants to use a PNS (and also includes its >>> PRID), it would only indicate a single PNS - as currently defined i= n >>> the draft. >>> >>> >>> The proxy procedures would remain the same, i.e., if the proxy >>> supports a PNS indicated by the UA it inserts the associated >>> parameters, and if it doesn't it sends a 555 response. The text >>> would only be modified to indicate that the UA might include suppor= t >>> of multiple PNS. >>> >>> >>> Does anyone have an issue with such modification? >> >> >> I do not think this change would break anything and this can prove to be >> useful in the future, especially when clients will try to migrate to a >> newer version of the push notification service and will need to specify >> support for both legacy and new service. > >This is introducing a negotiation between client and the network servers >to find a mutually supported PNS. IMO this is a good thing, because both >clients and networks are likely to support multiple, and the one(s) >mutually supported may not be known a priori. > >But, as currently defined, it appears that this will require a *single* >server in the network to support all the PNSs. ISTM that there may well >be cases where a single server implementation doesn't support all PNSs, >and to acquire support a provider may have to deploy multiple proxies to >cover all the PNSs that clients might desire. This could be made to >work, but the details of the protocol negotiation will need to be >adjusted to do so. > >Also, if client and provider have multiple PNSs in common, who should >get to decide which one will be used? The suggestion is that the network chooses, and if different proxies suppor= t different PNSs the proxy that supports the chosen PNS will indicate the s= upport. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31618A4EF97DA11F33DBEAFE93850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

>>>     What would th= e change be?
>>>
>>> 
>>>     Modify the pn-provider syntax to allow multiple = value, and allow the
>>>     UA, when it does a query, to indicate support of= multiple PNS.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>     When the UA actually wants to use a PNS (and als= o includes its
>>>     PRID), it would only indicate a single PNS - as = currently defined in
>>>     the draft.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>     The proxy procedures would remain the same, i.e.= , if the proxy
>>>     supports a PNS indicated by the UA it inserts th= e associated
>>>     parameters, and if it doesn't it sends a 555 res= ponse. The text
>>>     would only be modified to indicate that the UA m= ight include support
>>>     of multiple PNS.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>     Does anyone have an issue with such modification= ?
>> 
>> 
>> I do not think this change would break anything and this can prove= to be
>> useful in the future, especially when clients will try to migrate = to a
>> newer version of the push notification service and will need to sp= ecify
>> support for both legacy and new service.
>
>This is introducing a negotiation between client and the network server= s
>to find a mutually supported PNS. IMO this is a good thing, because bot= h
>clients and networks are likely to support multiple, and the one(s) >mutually supported may not be known a priori.
>
>But, as currently defined, it appears that this will require a *single*=
>server in the network to support all the PNSs. ISTM that there may well=
>be cases where a single server implementation doesn't support all PNSs,=
>and to acquire support a provider may have to deploy multiple proxies t= o
>cover all the PNSs that clients might desire. This could be made to >work, but the details of the protocol negotiation will need to be
>adjusted to do so.
>
>Also, if client and provider have multiple PNSs in common, who should <= br> >get to decide which one will be used?

The suggestion is that the network chooses, and if= different proxies support different PNSs the proxy that supports the chose= n PNS will indicate the support.

Regards,

Christer

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On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 4:22 PM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

>Also, if client and provider have multiple PNSs in common, who should= =C2=A0

>get to decide which one will be used?

The suggestion is that= the network chooses, and if different proxies support different PNSs the p= roxy that supports the chosen PNS will indicate the support.

I suggest tha= t client indicates PNS in order of its preference, but then proxy will choo= ses only a single PNS based on the client and its own preferences.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
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Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:35:51 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: UA indicating support of multiple PNS Thread-Index: AQHUqaj1C7xS9gX/DE+xum2mmK++DaWqas2AgAAjp4CAAARTyIAAAh2AgAACy50= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:35:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9e6a84df-8e70-632a-3333-e36210072960@alum.mit.edu> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB3164; 6:+Noh/iSvSbZL2bM7W0oU30mGnkEaPlNiu8XSFVN6+B7g4aoPgEJ3IcmdfPxBJJdrKf57CTO/KrFICiqIsMI6XIcWZZXnkxev0Nm5HZl/RmuQvngiqyz+H0e5H+vv5Gk/alFsaPskVNi3sBpq8PjaxOSZHkKb+ZEaKp25jPiyulBkhVQ1KC7zlU8X0WNGR/DX7cUnjwD2SxZApC/ChGjQGVTyUpisAF/qivnYOHkjafbMDDw9/C5/QQCM4HqA9fFJgDBZaNt7HYqmEVhopooHUhMvssjtc2OKyiOBVFLcJ5B0EB09wsdjLALr52eDncZZR29Pau7oTBOtu7aSlEU1r9e4bKnhwjwxW9My4KE+CzaWhlTzsZPm4HsGJMh2FAnDNF9GmF2QiA1WfPlCYbk4YvAeFmYmRsNjiatZzE88oWnr1WOIgj6LEOMcUnQwa5oYNvHieof2lVF3jBssPU+pBg==; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >Also, if client and provider have multiple PNSs in common, who should >get to decide which one will be used? The suggestion is that the network chooses, and if different proxies suppor= t different PNSs the proxy that supports the chosen PNS will indicate the s= upport. >I suggest that client indicates PNS in order of its preference, but then p= roxy will chooses only a single >PNS based on the client and its own prefer= ences. That is my suggestion. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161E61182525CDBC54A26B893850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,


>Also, if client and provider have multiple PNSs in common, who shoul= d 

=
>get to decide wh= ich one will be used?

The suggestion is th= at the network chooses, and if different proxies support different PNSs the= proxy that supports the chosen PNS will indicate the support.

>I suggest that client indicates PNS in order of its preference, bu= t then proxy will chooses only a single >PNS based on the client and its= own preferences.

That is my suggestion.

Regards,

Christer


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Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:47:49 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1516.016; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:47:49 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Eric Rescorla , The IESG CC: "br@brianrosen.net" , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues - the pull request commit Thread-Index: AQHUqfdLGhIGJ4Onn0GefyIvpcTBNw== Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 21:47:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [37.33.31.219] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Based on Ekr's COMMENT issues, I have submitted a pull request commit with = the suggested changes. https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31/commits/407786b56bc9b9cd96c= 80139b716228253ac1a4f This commit does not contain any major re-writes, and I may have forgotten = something else, but it's a start. (Note that the APNS and FCM web links have been added to the normative refe= rences in another commit.) Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB316128CE17C707102695DECE93850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


Based on Ekr's COMMENT issues, I = have submitted a pull request commit with the suggested changes.


https://g= ithub.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31/commits/407786b56bc9b9cd96c80139b716= 228253ac1a4f


This commit does not contain any = major re-writes, and I may have forgotten something else, but it's a start.=


(Note that the APNS and FCM web l= inks have been added to the normative references in another commit.)


Regards,


Christer



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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, S 4.1. >>> capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-registration >>> REGISTER request when it receives a push notification (even if the= UA >>> is able to use a non-push mechanism for sending re-registration >>> REGISTER requests), or when there are circumstances (e.g., if the = UA >>> is assigned new contact parameters due to a network configuration >>> change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. >> >>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't >>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send regular >>REGISTERs If the response doesn't contain "sip.pns" then none of the procedures apply= . Earlier in the section the text says: "In other cases, the UA MUST NOT assume that the proxy will request that = push notifications is sent to the UA, and the actions taken by the UA might be dependent on = implementation or deployment architecture, and are outside the scope of this document." So, if the UA wants to fallback to "regular" mode it can do so, but it is o= utside the scope of the document. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161793A1009C6D771F0417393850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


S 4.1.

>>>      capabil= ity indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-registration
>>>      REGISTER request when it receive= s a push notification (even if the UA
>>>      is able to use a non-push mechan= ism for sending re-registration
>>>      REGISTER requests), or when ther= e are circumstances (e.g., if the UA
>>>      is assigned new contact paramete= rs due to a network configuration
>>>      change) that require an immediat= e REGISTER request to be sent.
>>
>>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't
>>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to s= end regular
>>REGISTERs

If the response doesn't contain "sip.pns"= ; then none of the procedures apply.

Earlier in the section the text says:

  "In other cases, the UA MUST NOT assume that the proxy wil= l request that push notifications is
   sent to the UA,   and the actions taken by the UA mi= ght be dependent on implementation or 
   deployment architecture, and are outside the scope of thi= s document."

So, if the UA wants to fallback to "regular" mode it can do = so, but it is outside the scope of the document.

Regards,

Christer
--_000_HE1PR07MB3161793A1009C6D771F0417393850HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Fri Jan 11 14:06:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91601128CE4 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:06:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.041 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.041 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7c6IgNlYKwc0 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:06:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFAA81200D7 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id a8so11871077lfk.5 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:06:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/sbquMt9lpzvlYQs/kvi0Zrjysz7mJXTNi6/eNVBNvk=; b=DvmnEEmllgPF9W4WyNAJ0jHnRzExmRbKH8K8V8BMFHtd+nwh+kC8aJacVIWr5VUBYv wx+pV19/PnK2urPMxpFwuiFFJBLajicztl7ffF+m2tKOtc9d6YLBUhLw2gssO+69S529 SI/ksFITVkjcqHBAjyFDAnJOz2ahitjWLpsFjXaXqhtAK5N4kQ4xlTLNlINyJ1grG77T s7a2M/fw5ZX5XZxqkdEv4nPjXjKv3SYPN1XzncRDrF29cLnBwf3TDZ19wBj6a3all4VX etGJqFJnDQ0dmGY0DK/zb2AfE+GJnLWSYfKjgKdnDYysoqjRqrAeMRSKs+97BwJPPaBD CUKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/sbquMt9lpzvlYQs/kvi0Zrjysz7mJXTNi6/eNVBNvk=; b=Yxf0v6SqjkyqIhdBF843OLYclabsKFQIsn6WyICm+TlQhxUjhasHFbCIwYkgB29Z7n vp7sog5QG259aWVoNQfHTfrbXHxHQBKvPk7fSnBy5v7OiWVDWdGLbxEwZayMOWbpAizP +3GK8ac8yIYImAgoD33UJizRCag3cbZAJoQARaTtyLGL8Wt3c7ffUUjVS1HadcXe98Tl +GI+mQelLCDz/SJTzdRVeBGm3xP1giFTYg6GPC2nt185p5PeAnDf5DYCldVJZI0zeG/V vJ7aizGijzCoWpKO6jGJSXYgPZOnu2YCAlG+NfmdTGz6N2R339BcffjwaVPDKH0g1Qxl 5bwg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcNOnODdfPSdmH6v7bQC5xuWvtzqOiUn0GHLOKnq3lfIEaCmdDY 3mUNqZFbRcEoh1wqKIEHH+4b5Ft3HjipwjxIPLikR+Q07I4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6B1AsSmeX5+TdGuT7kyG1h/HSj5jaE6/i5yZQ3eZcgoDRZxLn6TdZRHzMfR23z6hS+fDQmGrySbxGI30UUe9c= X-Received: by 2002:a19:a9d2:: with SMTP id s201mr8684628lfe.154.1547244411025; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:06:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154681733718.17024.3190954246737206843.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eric Rescorla Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:06:12 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: The IESG , "br@brianrosen.net" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008012d6057f35e9b8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - the COMMENT issues - part 2 - section 4_1 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 22:06:54 -0000 --0000000000008012d6057f35e9b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 1:54 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > S 4.1. > >>> capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-registration > >>> REGISTER request when it receives a push notification (even if > the UA > >>> is able to use a non-push mechanism for sending re-registration > >>> REGISTER requests), or when there are circumstances (e.g., if the > UA > >>> is assigned new contact parameters due to a network configuration > >>> change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. > >> > >>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't > >>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send regular > >>REGISTERs > > If the response doesn't contain "sip.pns" then none of the procedures > apply. > As before, the writing in the document makes it very hard to determine this. -Ekr > Earlier in the section the text says: > > "In other cases, the UA MUST NOT assume that the proxy will request that > push notifications is > sent to the UA, and the actions taken by the UA might be dependent on > implementation or > deployment architecture, and are outside the scope of this document." > > So, if the UA wants to fallback to "regular" mode it can do so, but it is > outside the scope of the document. > > Regards, > > Christer > --0000000000008012d6057f35e9b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 1:54 PM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.co= m> wrote:

Hi,


S 4.1.

>>>=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-re= gistration
>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 REGISTER request when it receive= s a push notification (even if the UA
>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is able to use a non-push mechan= ism for sending re-registration
>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 REGISTER requests), or when ther= e are circumstances (e.g., if the UA
>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is assigned new contact paramete= rs due to a network configuration
>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 change) that require an immediat= e REGISTER request to be sent.
>>
>>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn&#= 39;t
>>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to s= end regular
>>REGISTERs

If the response doesn&#= 39;t contain "sip.pns" then none of the procedures apply.

As bef= ore, the writing in the document makes it very hard to determine this.

-Ekr

=

Earlier in the section = the text says:

=C2=A0 "In other cases, the UA MUST NOT assume that the proxy wil= l request that push notifications is
=C2=A0=C2=A0 sent to the UA, =C2=A0 and the actions taken by the UA mi= ght be dependent on implementation or=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 deployment architecture, and are outside the scope of thi= s document."

So, if the UA wants to fallback to "regular" mode it can do = so, but it is outside the scope of the document.

Regards,

Christer
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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR01MB4031 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] display-name ABNF rule is incorrect in RFC 3261 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:25:23 -0000 On 1/11/19 4:21 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > Hi All, > > The name-addr ABNF rule in RFC 3261 specifies: > > name-addr = [ display-name ] LAQUOT addr-spec RAQUOT > addr-spec = SIP-URI / SIPS-URI / absoluteURI > display-name = *(token LWS)/ quoted-string > > > Based on this, LWS is always required between token and the "<" and the > following Name-Address value is invalid: > > foo> > > At the same time https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3261#section-20.10 says: > > There may or may not be LWS between the display-name and the    "<". Good catch. > This implies that foo> should > be acceptable. > > Based on this, should the display-name rule be updated to be: > > display-name = token *(LWS token)/ quoted-string > > > Should I file an errata or was this ever corrected in subsequent RFC? I'm not aware of this ever being corrected. 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Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:30:14 +0000 Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of alum.mit.edu designates 18.7.68.33 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=18.7.68.33; helo=outgoing-alum.mit.edu; Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (18.7.68.33) by DM3NAM03FT006.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.82.121) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1471.13 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:30:14 +0000 Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x0BNUC4w021269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 18:30:13 -0500 To: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <9e6a84df-8e70-632a-3333-e36210072960@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 18:30:12 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN8PR01MB5523 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: UA indicating support of multiple PNS X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:30:20 -0000 On 1/11/19 4:24 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 4:22 PM Christer Holmberg > > > wrote: > > >Also, if client and provider have multiple PNSs in common, who should > > >get to decide which one will be used? > > The suggestion is that the network chooses, and if different proxies > support different PNSs the proxy that supports the chosen PNS will > indicate the support. > > > I suggest that client indicates PNS in order of its preference, but then > proxy will chooses only a single PNS based on the client and its own > preferences. That still assumes that a single server supports all the PNSs. If client supports X and Y with preference for X, while proxy A supports Y and later proxy B supports X, then the client won't get his preference. And if proxy A supports Z and proxy B supports X and Y, according to current rules there will be no support at all. Thanks, Paul From nobody Fri Jan 11 15:43:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5863612D4E8; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:42:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h1NSLvXIrOy5; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5589D129AA0; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x0BNgteZ061982 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:42:56 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547250176; bh=l4OHOD2R0u1O33o9O7CA69v8J3nf9yPKK1DEnmBIR88=; h=From:Subject:Date:Cc:To; b=L4OgojrKDjAaID47uXGaIIfT9g6hsktD+kYHvZIIycUw796YAsz+hB4c11eBTbSpW rxmb2KczqbMoeL36JbfjnpplH3paDi0/TIYHJiRPlI2vkOMP2XnV6w8w4bsWNtXqzM k9bi8QVTLrs2lhLBLKJALG7XN8klWx9Pnft10KA4= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5B5B0125-8A22-4A6E-B00C-A98A8BC1D911"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Message-Id: <77D165C7-7501-4EE3-A89E-3E3D8349CB9C@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:42:55 -0600 Cc: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org To: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:42:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5B5B0125-8A22-4A6E-B00C-A98A8BC1D911 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, I promised Christer that I would send a list of the technical points = from the IESG ballots that I think require working group discussion. = Here=E2=80=99s that list. Thanks! Ben. --------------- =46rom Adam's ballot DISCUSS points: - Maintaining soft-state of dialogs. - Privacy considerations of Contact-URI parameters available via RFC = 3680 subscriptions - Negotiating supported PNSs between UA and registrar. ( I see that = discussion this one is already happening.) =46rom Adam's additional comments: - Requirement for proxies to know what PNSs may be supported by = downstream proxies. - Discussion of response codes. This includes loosening the MUST = requirements to send specific response codes. (I agree with Adam's = suggestion, but the wg needs to vet it.). It also includes the = discussion of the impact of response code choices (see Adam's comments = on =C2=A76.2.3) =46rom Ekr's ballot: -comment on =C2=A75.3.2: Discussion about whether the proxy should be = allowed to race an incoming request with the push-notification generated = re-registration. --Apple-Mail=_5B5B0125-8A22-4A6E-B00C-A98A8BC1D911 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw5Kf8ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A2BFRAAjdyWUXcsXO7p0Scv7mN8weePsvrhrolh6SsdC3rU9vAIJ9JU+p8MUKfd gsuLg2X2dCXvPwOwS2SDWOfNT+koEdKJZvmdLzzSAOYapUUuCWm2DWMILjOPYbKO HrTlD6BHvd6F1vvVOcAX5h1Bxvr/n5/Q0Jgi+JbeLJlGc+2YZ/SEgqp6TMcB4eFB svNWbsxIwZ05EAHbgAbWe+v7NJakitblsLMC2gr58rnHPmGa0bYRq6WBExTlQtAC 2jFViJq4Xv0L908uf8OSStuA4l7jW4WdLX59kYXrymv61IrvDItXlOdcax2rykq0 VXEZ/eu66KRbGtvgBXtEgPTUlDZcaxejgl5mYQXcgeJO5YrONq/Xo6O0tlvvdaAe B30vog1NG28dNmjALSC5CJVzCrylEVSaeV5xiqnotPoCDIaEA1g+k8PHmzchcWWv b1rGK0Mn3gHYNz08q1mCSAErgCXhmwELEvu2oK8xgQXrr3gufX3nbz5ziB5vdA/M aKdlYoldpmytloMdqn/TMjx4CWh+b2rLubT6XNLRG4SRqycQe5MZp6zur55Bh4jZ 2CPvB2K+jwbIfL0Gh9Toy1FIm/Kl4r/kJ5wo7YRY/eGMPzNF9llXnp1QOgsCVD+H MPXm2z1z7dnj8mrMWQtqClfRY6gQ4qaxdJzjKTN8SNeh0TF1emc= =aOeA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_5B5B0125-8A22-4A6E-B00C-A98A8BC1D911-- From nobody Fri Jan 11 15:57:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E15F12958B for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:57:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.031 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.031 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 34Q8SWilrkzF for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:56:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F1E3128D0C for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:56:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id t13so7430967ply.13 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:56:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UXOfsKP00z9g4D+Sb/7LEaNXmteCXLuz1FOltMWXVu8=; b=CvOgKBvxUkkd3MGN1pHh2bsBG+LxfBnfRxEj+jlp8bLRjfT25vzTpoPF67Z2OZkGPw UX3KVitosAmjftk/qTSipdwx2vuFSqUx6GycNm+FqfMxXIADI0FyZBi6fLNfPcqr8fB5 cVL6UxznONdxUMuz43vWCe7f75tYOtgRe1mHetKjOda14WnsomQ2WyaWXv5imBZ1Dc8t SWv1nsCHBobQbiF/M45F+dD6SGVLl9xLGcNRdCot0SnJXR+mpcKo/aLFQ//qQND04Bjs yeM24GeJ2UgyDEgs3+/Csk36/XeJS8QPj5jHGxJEquBAXtQwdm+NgFamgcVJeFID9kTh F87A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UXOfsKP00z9g4D+Sb/7LEaNXmteCXLuz1FOltMWXVu8=; b=jhkrg0RHTpzEIR/3oDKKGHmLZR3WHySdvXauT1fndCBzRRF2rNaaLKAJoS588shxfR ++zWWk+s8rR4XjiZHncLvXFfP6F/FyQqCz8TruX/8V0JMHiT7x+UhZDTUURBeH/xEJNl JlsgFyK8R+j5sBGsSOi2MnEkDO3jkdfagy0gPb8WL3UmotZCAJDJHcNnXyLyXeK3uixG xhfYhct0+6smc2t9YutiqPxAJGKuRn+zA2zu2A854JupvZesVSFcrT/CeKLKWQIOIJNe 8CFceWTjsBHLM2UZyrv3R3AW8IpexNzN3fpzZuYqsjtgA/6v3BupuS3FXCcIElKPsEW7 wGmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukf4yFj5rYeduH6hfebTrfyV3xzeehbzTW/bs7YkkY2gURRf/ORO 5bH7f6d2Gch4Csi2adnQ0/ayzna+3qI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6dy/YAADUDAnJe1UfPSIbTSJgblStvR+qw1eztraUjuiikNLcmiP/PASFPfFbNMC3sNeVDQA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:9a07:: with SMTP id v7mr16169244plp.247.1547251017935; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:56:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com (mail-pl1-f175.google.com. [209.85.214.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x2sm111540807pfx.78.2019.01.11.15.56.57 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:56:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id u6so7438938plm.8 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:56:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6909:: with SMTP id j9mr16089643plk.196.1547251016877; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:56:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8c3d8dea-ba1b-907d-6959-5843f280ea2a@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <8c3d8dea-ba1b-907d-6959-5843f280ea2a@alum.mit.edu> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 18:56:44 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Paul Kyzivat Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003d4afe057f377308" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] display-name ABNF rule is incorrect in RFC 3261 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:57:01 -0000 --0000000000003d4afe057f377308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Paul, On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:25 PM Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 1/11/19 4:21 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > > The name-addr ABNF rule in RFC 3261 specifies: > > > > name-addr = [ display-name ] LAQUOT addr-spec RAQUOT > > addr-spec = SIP-URI / SIPS-URI / absoluteURI > > display-name = *(token LWS)/ quoted-string > > > > > > Based on this, LWS is always required between token and the "<" and the > > following Name-Address value is invalid: > > > > foo> > > > > At the same time https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3261#section-20.10 says: > > > > There may or may not be LWS between the display-name and the "<". > > Good catch. > > > This implies that foo> > should > > be acceptable. > > > > Based on this, should the display-name rule be updated to be: > > > > display-name = token *(LWS token)/ quoted-string > > > > > > Should I file an errata or was this ever corrected in subsequent RFC? > > I'm not aware of this ever being corrected. > Thank you for checking this. This was actually caught by a regression testing of an open source SIP stack implementation. I have submitted the errata for RFC 3261 with a new ABNF display-name rule. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000003d4afe057f377308 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Paul,

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:25 PM Paul Kyzivat <= pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrot= e:
On 1/11/19 4:= 21 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
> The name-addr ABNF rule in RFC 3261 spe= cifies:
>
> name-addr=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =3D=C2=A0 [ display-name ] LAQUOT addr-s= pec RAQUOT
> addr-spec=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =3D=C2=A0 SIP-URI / SIPS-URI / absoluteU= RI
> display-name=C2=A0 =C2=A0=3D=C2=A0 *(token LWS)/ quoted-string
>
>
> Based on this, LWS is always required between token and the "<= " and the
> following Name-Address value is invalid:
>
> foo<sip:foo@= bar.com <mailto:sip%3Afoo@bar.com>>
>
> At the same time https://tools.ietf.org/html/r= fc3261#section-20.10 says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0There may or may not be LWS between the display-nam= e and the=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0"<".

Good catch.

> This implies that foo<sip:foo@bar.com <mailto:sip%3Afoo@bar.com>> should
> be acceptable.
>
> Based on this, should the display-name rule be updated to be:
>
> display-name=C2=A0 =C2=A0=3D=C2=A0 token *(LWS token)/ quoted-string >
>
> Should I file an errata or was this ever corrected in subsequent RFC?<= br>
I'm not aware of this ever being corrected.

Thank you for checking this.=C2=A0

This w= as actually caught by a regression testing of an open source SIP stack impl= ementation. I have submitted the errata for RFC 3261 with a new ABNF displa= y-name rule.

Regards,
_____________
Roman = Shpount
=C2=A0
--0000000000003d4afe057f377308-- From nobody Sat Jan 12 03:49:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3AB130F73 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 03:49:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=POdsTuL0; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=BpZvRkqO Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K0Obl45No7_x for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 03:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E51D812D4ED for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB3113; H:HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: DPhPRZYOsnfX2PaY14Sapv7C29ISaETZb1AW2e0OqnvDCbv5RkXydZh+OL8FZ0dskqbzLcHIkr7q0e0Sk3RJq855dgTuZVpcylyz2e21sWPit9zgqivqVo21hG3rMdab0dBX1xWjLHsWG9iE71tTIYSX6rGXC2qDgVTb9Ut6T3+oKH4uUgQ31tzey6RrIfn6qwDyK16+OuiBtvgUwYHTyg85PviXyyfrP90nZdpzWoQDqiC0vmcX8PNnCgATVlZM9mDxAwXuJEPHmEI1VhfMTG2pB2cQiy+UdduvSqbq1vIzb/x2Ts9NjK6tVhwIZzxY+8ZiQw+YfCuhlWJXA62qoABb+nBBjAKOcoxQqlGqfsmyP4nF8/dOVuchekkGewhltvvTPjQDj/hXGyxKn30xD7Iv0ot84vwDgoHdcCT8GS0= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB3161C8A860303FFBD8C52C4093860HE1PR07MB3161eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cce8d45d-adbf-4c2d-88df-08d67883ed94 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Jan 2019 11:48:54.0266 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3113 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Se0iTYRTGeb/L9ilO3pa207TQhWHelUAlDYMMwUTpjy4i2qZfTtQp25IU shEZoliGChqGl1Z5a4ndtrzgZZB5QTODNCFbhoihRl7zUs7Xwv9+53nOc8574OVocQsr5VJU Wl6tkqfJBLZMxcXXWm/30eA4v4nBgKC65k42qHy4jA5aWm0RhNERm/MLVIRev0ZFjJdmxtCx tiFJfFpKFq/2PXnZVtlwu4/O/HL4Wn/HEKVD0wcLkA0H+Dg8NdZTBciWE2Mzgt8jEwJSLCOY 7R1F/4umuUe7hZ6CMV01Zc0zuJiG5ZJUYpRQ8KBuQ0gKC4Lm/KXtCMcJcBAUbnlaAw44Eoqr GgVWpvExsJjadwbtx5egqvEhRXpioT1vQEj4PHwvMQnJMjfYXHwrtI4U4TgwTIaSVU9o+FD/ irLqNjgMfr08bW1H+ACs9DVRZJUExqeqKHIzBn3bEE3YEWa+bbHWKGBXeKY7R+RDMFJVuHMv 4JtCWF83CYjhDQtlZbvZKBh8v0aRpmEE9R1mlhge8NHYyRBOhfnxot2AM/QUN7Mk0MpCydcC phj53t/zQMIZMFFhYKwswvvgXcUUQ3Qf+FRWKiDsCY9rZmnC3lC+1c3s1auRsAE5aniNIj05 IMCHV6ckajQZKh8Vr21B2z+p68W6nxHNTJ/qRphDMjtRU1twnJiVZ2my07sRcLTMQeSs2JZE SfLsHF6dkaC+msZrupETx8gkog3xvjgxTpZr+VSez+TV/1yKs5HqEDt+a0nr9nMlMjH3Xq0l L2FGFRgfenSsyFL5wyUs2ism/7qh54/p+cqJSrOw1yZcUVMjPaIYEyjv2A+MOs2tlZr0k5LP ubMjtTkK97N3lb6B9qt9uEtyRhq95hrVmrQY33/B7sYVo5tXZbI5hNX7h0WWBzq6pBjepG/O h0vHQMZolHJ/D1qtkf8Fbc3yS0UDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: UA indicating support of multiple PNS X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:49:03 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB3161C8A860303FFBD8C52C4093860HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >>> Also, if client and provider have multiple PNSs in common, who should >>> get to decide which one will be used? >> >> The suggestion is that the network chooses, and if different proxies >> support different PNSs the proxy that supports the chosen PNS will >> indicate the support. >> >> >> I suggest that client indicates PNS in order of its preference, but then >> proxy will chooses only a single PNS based on the client and its own >> preferences. > >That still assumes that a single server supports all the PNSs. > >If client supports X and Y with preference for X, while proxy A supports >Y and later proxy B supports X, then the client won't get his preference. > >And if proxy A supports Z and proxy B supports X and Y, according to >current rules there will be no support at all. The text allows a proxy to forward the request to another proxy, based on l= ocal configuration. So, proxy A can choose to not indicate support of its PNS, and instead forw= ard the request to B, that will then indicate support of its PNS. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161C8A860303FFBD8C52C4093860HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

>>> Also, if client and provider have mul= tiple PNSs in common, who should
>>> get to decide which one will be used?
>> 
>>     The suggestion is that the network chooses, and if d= ifferent proxies
>>     support different PNSs the proxy that supports the c= hosen PNS will
>>     indicate the support.
>> 
>> 
>> I suggest that client indicates PNS in order of its preference, bu= t then
>> proxy will chooses only a single PNS based on the client and its o= wn
>> preferences.
>
>That still assumes that a single server supports all the PNSs.
>
>If client supports X and Y with preference for X, while proxy A support= s
>Y and later proxy B supports X, then the client won't get his preferenc= e.
>
>And if proxy A supports Z and proxy B supports X and Y, according to >current rules there will be no support at all.

The text allows a proxy to forward the request to = another proxy, based on local configuration.

So, proxy A can choose to not indicate support of = its PNS, and instead forward the request to B, that will then indicate supp= ort of its PNS.

Regards,

Christer

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. I = will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers Adam's sof= t state issue (DISCUSS). -What is it about? Adam indicated that the current solution does not allow negotiating push no= tifications for subscription refreshes and session-timer refreshes. Of cour= se, one could use the same timer values as for the binding refresh, and sen= d SUBSCRIBE and/or re-INVITE at the same time as REGISTER. -What do I think? I think that, as far as the base mechanism is concerned, if this functional= ity is needed one should use the binding refresh timer. I think that should= work at least for subscription refreshes. Regarding session-timers: First, they are only sent within INVITE initiated dialog, and the assumptio= n has been that the UA is awake during such dialogs. Second, IF there is a long-lived INVITE initiated dialog, where the UA migh= t go to sleep during the dialog, one could use the registration timer also = for that. (FWIW, I talked to some product people, and they had never heard about a ne= ed for using push for session-timers.) -What do I suggest? My suggestion is to keep the existing binding-associated push notification,= and add text about how it can also be used for subscriptions and/or sessio= n-timers, if needed. Then, once we get more deployment experience, IF we realize there is a need= to negotiate explicit push notifications for subscriptions and/or session-= timers we can define that in a separate draft. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161970D8C169A5417E83F7C93860HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Be= n. I will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers Adam'= s soft state issue (DISCUSS).


-What is it about?

Adam indicated that the current solution does not allow negotiating pu= sh notifications for subscription refreshes and session-timer refreshes. Of= course, one could use the same timer values as for the binding refresh, an= d send SUBSCRIBE and/or re-INVITE at the same time as REGISTER.


-What do I think?

I think that, as far as the base mechanism is concerned, if this funct= ionality is needed one should use the binding refresh timer. I think that s= hould work at least for subscription refreshes.

Regarding session-timers: 

First, they are only sent within INVITE initiated dialog, and the assu= mption has been that the UA is awake during such dialogs.

Second, IF there is a long-lived INVITE initiated dialog, where the UA= might go to sleep during the dialog, one could use the registration timer = also for that. 

(FWIW, I talked to some product people, and they had never heard about= a need for using push for session-timers.)


-What do I suggest?

My suggestion is to keep the existing binding-associated push notifica= tion, and add text about how it can also be used for subscriptions and/or s= ession-timers, if needed.

Then, once we get more deployment experience, IF we realize there is a= need to negotiate explicit push notifications for subscriptions and/or ses= sion-timers we can define that in a separate draft.

Regards,

Christer

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. I = will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers Adam's res= ponse code issue. -What is it about? Adam indicated that the text is too strict (using MUST) regarding which err= or response codes to use (404 or 480). He suggested that the text can recom= mend usage of 404 or 480, and allow others. However, when sending an error = response to a mid-dialog request, the proxy needs to take into consideratio= n whether the response code only terminates the transaction, or the whole d= ialog usage. -What do I think? I have no problem with Adam's suggestion. -What do I suggest? Recommend usage of 404 or 480, but allow usage of others. In the mid-dialog request section, add a reference to RFC 5057. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161A0C468CC8D2275763C7A93860HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. I = will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers Adam's res= ponse code issue.


-What is it about?

Adam indicated that the text is too strict (using MUST) regarding which err= or response codes to use (404 or 480). He suggested that the text can recom= mend usage of 404 or 480, and allow others. However, when sending an error = response to a mid-dialog request, the proxy needs to take into consideration whether the response code only = terminates the transaction, or the whole dialog usage.




-What do I think?

I have no problem with Adam's suggestion.


-What do I suggest?

Recommend usage of 404 or 480, but allow usage of others.

In the mid-dialog request section, add a reference to RFC 5057.


Regards,

Christer

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. I = will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers Adam's iss= ue regarding proxies knowing what downstream proxies support. -What is it about? The text allows a proxy to forward a REGISTER request to another proxy, if = it "knows" that is supports a PNS supported by the UA. Adam asked how a proxy would know. -What do I think? The knowledge is done by operator configuration, but I agree that is not cl= ear in the text. -What do I suggest? Add text clarifying that the knowledge is based on operator configuration. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31618557C1E7347DCE4C2E7D93860HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. I = will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers Adam's iss= ue regarding proxies knowing what downstream proxies support.


-What is it about?

The text allows a proxy to forward a REGISTER request to another proxy, if = it "knows" that is supports a PNS supported by the UA.

Adam asked how a proxy would know.


-What do I think?

The knowledge is done by operator configuration, but I agree that is not cl= ear in the text.

-What do I suggest?

Add text clarifying that the knowledge is based on operator configuration.<= br>

Regards,

Christer




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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. I = will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers Ekr's race= issues (COMMENT). -What is it about? When a proxy receives a request, addressed towards the UA, the default beha= viour is to request that a push notification is sent to the UA, wait for th= e REGISTER request AND the associated REGISTER 2xx response, and then forwa= rd the request. As an optimization, the text allows the proxy to forward the request immedi= ately, if it has "knowledge" that the UA is awake. Ekr suggested that a proxy should always be allowed to forward the request = at the same time as requesting the push notification, without having any kn= owledge about whether the UA is awake, and without waiting for the REGISTER= request/response. -What do I think? I do NOT think we should make this change. The WG did discuss this, decided= on the wait-for-the-REGISTER-2xx approach, and the draft explains the reas= ons. -What do I suggest? If something regarding the current approach is unclear I am happy to add cl= arification text, but other than that my suggestion is that we don't do any= thing regarding this issue. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31610CA3380A2B1085F268FB93860HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. I = will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers Ekr's race= issues (COMMENT).


-What is it about?

When a proxy receives a request, addressed towards the UA, the default beha= viour is to request that a push notification is sent to the UA, wait for th= e REGISTER request AND the associated REGISTER 2xx response, and then forwa= rd the request.


As an optimization, the text allows the proxy to forward the request immedi= ately, if it has "knowledge" that the UA is awake.

Ekr suggested that a proxy should always be allowed to forward the request = at the same time as requesting the push notification, without having any kn= owledge about whether the UA is awake, and without waiting for the REGISTER= request/response.



-What do I think?

I do NOT think we should make this change. The WG did discuss this, decided= on the wait-for-the-REGISTER-2xx approach, and the draft explains the reas= ons.



-What do I suggest?

If something regarding the current approach is unclear I am happy to add cl= arification text, but other than that my suggestion is that we don't do any= thing regarding this issue.



Regards,

Christer


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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, S 4.1. >>> capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-registration >>> REGISTER request when it receives a push notification (even if the= UA >>> is able to use a non-push mechanism for sending re-registration >>> REGISTER requests), or when there are circumstances (e.g., if the = UA >>> is assigned new contact parameters due to a network configuration >>> change) that require an immediate REGISTER request to be sent. >> >>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't >>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to send regular >>REGISTERs If the response doesn't contain "sip.pns" then none of the procedures apply= . >As before, the writing in the document makes it very hard to determine thi= s. It is stated earlier in the section, but I can try to make it clear. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161FCE22DAB960AF24C861B93860HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


S 4.1.

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
>>> &nb= sp;    capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a re-re= gistration
>>>      REGISTER request when it receive= s a push notification (even if the UA
>>>      is able to use a non-push mechan= ism for sending re-registration
>>>      REGISTER requests), or when ther= e are circumstances (e.g., if the UA
>>>      is assigned new contact paramete= rs due to a network configuration
>>>      change) that require an immediat= e REGISTER request to be sent.
>>
>>This text doesn't seem correct. If the initial response doesn't
>>contain "sip.pns" then you probably would still want to s= end regular
>>REGISTERs

If the response doesn= 't contain "sip.pns" then none of the procedures apply.

>As before, the writing in the document makes it very hard to deter= mine this.

It is stated earlier in the section, but I can try to make it clear.

Regards,

Christer

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt">
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Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:11:36 -0500 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <9e6a84df-8e70-632a-3333-e36210072960@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:11:35 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:18.7.68.33; IPV:CAL; SCL:-1; CTRY:US; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(136003)(376002)(396003)(39860400002)(346002)(2980300002)(189003)(199004)(65826007)(75432002)(305945005)(110136005)(36906005)(58126008)(7596002)(67846002)(106002)(4326008)(23746002)(6246003)(5660300001)(86362001)(14444005)(50466002)(356004)(786003)(2906002)(316002)(88552002)(31696002)(31686004)(93886005)(106466001)(76176011)(478600001)(956004)(186003)(2616005)(26005)(446003)(336012)(53546011)(486006)(126002)(230700001)(11346002)(476003)(246002)(64126003)(65806001)(65956001)(104016004)(8936002)(47776003)(26826003)(8676002)(229853002); 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR0101MB2980 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: UA indicating support of multiple PNS X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 17:11:44 -0000 On 1/12/19 6:48 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >>That still assumes that a single server supports all the PNSs. >> >>If client supports X and Y with preference for X, while proxy A supports >>Y and later proxy B supports X, then the client won't get his preference. >> >>And if proxy A supports Z and proxy B supports X and Y, according to >>current rules there will be no support at all. > > The text allows a proxy to forward the request to another proxy, based > on local configuration. > > So, proxy A can choose to not indicate support of its PNS, and instead > forward the request to B, that will then indicate support of its PNS. The sneaky word there is "allows". And IIUC it should not do so unless it *knows* there is another push proxy downstream. There is no guarantee to the client that all of its supported PNSs will be *considered*. The current mechanism was designed around the assumption that the client only offers one PNS. Changing to a system where the client can offer multiple PNSs should be accompanied by further consideration of how negotiation of which the PNS to use *should* work. Thanks, Paul From nobody Sat Jan 12 09:44:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F33EB1276D0 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:44:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.043 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.043 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mitprod.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qRLiCmmFgP0l for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM03-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr800090.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.80.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57662124C04 for ; 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Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:44:42 -0500 To: References: <77D165C7-7501-4EE3-A89E-3E3D8349CB9C@nostrum.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <57ab305b-1a00-7df3-0370-10f82cf2c9a7@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:44:41 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:18.7.68.33; IPV:CAL; SCL:-1; CTRY:US; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(376002)(136003)(346002)(39860400002)(396003)(2980300002)(199004)(189003)(14444005)(50466002)(6916009)(64126003)(75432002)(26826003)(6246003)(446003)(65956001)(65806001)(8936002)(47776003)(86362001)(106002)(478600001)(58126008)(36906005)(65826007)(186003)(76176011)(26005)(786003)(316002)(486006)(31696002)(5660300001)(53546011)(104016004)(31686004)(67846002)(229853002)(11346002)(2616005)(126002)(2906002)(246002)(956004)(230700001)(8676002)(336012)(23746002)(356004)(305945005)(88552002)(106466001)(2351001)(7596002)(476003); 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR01MB4021 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's issue on proxies knowing what downstream proxies support X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 17:44:49 -0000 On 1/12/19 7:20 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. > I will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers > Adam's issue regarding proxies knowing what downstream proxies support. > > -What is it about? > > The text allows a proxy to forward a REGISTER request to another proxy, > if it "knows" that is supports a PNS supported by the UA. > > Adam asked how a proxy would know. > > -What do I think? > > The knowledge is done by operator configuration, but I agree that is not > clear in the text. > > -What do I suggest? > > Add text clarifying that the knowledge is based on operator configuration. Features that require configuration are burdensome and prone to error. A mechanism that doesn't require it is preferred. Without going into detail, ISTM that a mechanism can be devised that doesn't require this knowledge. But this first requires deciding who should choose when multiple PNSs are supported by both client and proxies/registrar. One possibility is to use one round trip to discover what PNSs are supported by proxies on the path. Then the client can choose one, initialize just *that* PNS, and then another round trip to enable that choice. This way would be less efficient in initial setup because it would require two round trips, but it would be more efficient long term because the client would only have to enable the PNS that will be used, and we might be able to find a way to eliminate the unneeded push proxies from the path. Another way would be for the client to indicate its preference among supported PNSs. During the request, the highest priority supported PNS can be identified. Then in the response, the proxy supporting that PNS can do the necessary setup. This only requires one round trip. But it requires the registrar to mirror something from the request to the response. It also requires the client to initialize all supported PNSs even though only one will be used. Yet another way would be for client to indicate all supported PNSs. The first proxy that supports one of them becomes the push proxy, and removes the request for a push proxy before forwarding the request. Push proxies that don't support any of the PNSs just forward the request. If none of the PNSs are supported, the registration will complete without one. In that case the client will have to decide whether to cope with that or remove the registration and give up. This approach only takes one round trip (except in case of non-support). But the choice of which PNS to use is made based on the order of proxies, not on client preference. And again the client has to initialize all its supported PNSs. In all of these, after the initial registration the client can optimize for the chosen PNS. It can close down sessions with other PNSs and only mention the chosen PNS in future registration requests. Thanks, Paul From nobody Sat Jan 12 14:28:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E163F131110 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.03 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.03 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UXwamJYtA5hP for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0E6F131105 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id q1so8600334pfi.5 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/W7h9iZPobwD1vo/6PFy+tNT1ZN8PP2oZWCEsJog1OU=; b=v8V1FOuQ464tepc4wLycNuzIgv62bGPBaRO21AoVdGfYlKDTOEJxb1qitxLwb6ctyB NzFanSVqx9H02L21IpKimxdKH6gLOXXgRdZuch1eBxIcfM0dErifWF23rw7h5x2POlcZ JcI+kYPs2ziLGRHAXpk+g/wzRWT2RzAyRiX2+nxpUVxNPxO+nk6PbtC/IDyOjEV5ADkx iePjtUpMiR3HMaASMn2+a8sEp/8y3UuqOYiv3ucqR2Sn2bhMPh5juGA4Hq2GFzA17TNg ADJ+wmHh1TNgQo0gUxxPD470e59PC5O06c+eAg7uhl7uAo8AzYHcHlyNzW4a/QZggNfY BSnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/W7h9iZPobwD1vo/6PFy+tNT1ZN8PP2oZWCEsJog1OU=; b=nhusQyro22fzy2/3lXswESZVifAru0OkxCzxaqZ1pdMEYUZG3ezeihc1FnyqYwJ3xi 58yEa06yWMSlo2ZBSuDmJmVC4IfCD1ftQZI00p79MNxfGewRRaYZnx3SqZIGneGSLHzH NlN1XYwVjyH9VMlLo3mQucSvqNVz3yAiJT754E6DMb1sbMMS6DYTYMLjutIyChJMEhM7 XfPaqR0IqpGPjZT5CgsfTXkZlXAk26IzKB+v2s109jZBlI9TwstsfVNsixUXXOvkx9UH MT1KDwSXuOVlfEkKImahjD9qj5i8qhfnr1oDSmaNi5XDVYBRUDzDcY3/+GfhLLuN5uBF FbxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeZIv/iKMogTa8PN+hSQni6YeuTyjE9KjtgaHJXViQJYxeLnPSH nK1pv6/J+ReKouJZcRadQ8j7FFGbiXs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN671q3WOBsKml8EZKj3ZixKhi90cc+z6AkD3JIxIdKPmrpuCpaiI/E3I8wACaTXCQT8BESTfg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:c0f:: with SMTP id b15mr18227324pgl.314.1547332121138; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-f170.google.com (mail-pf1-f170.google.com. [209.85.210.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n70sm126207950pfi.185.2019.01.12.14.28.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-f170.google.com with SMTP id c73so8578166pfe.13; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a63:b4c:: with SMTP id a12mr18310568pgl.131.1547332119642; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <77D165C7-7501-4EE3-A89E-3E3D8349CB9C@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 17:28:28 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000574939057f4a555d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Ekr's race issue X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:28:45 -0000 --000000000000574939057f4a555d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:27 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > -What is it about? > > When a proxy receives a request, addressed towards the UA, the default > behaviour is to request that a push notification is sent to the UA, wait > for the REGISTER request AND the associated REGISTER 2xx response, and then > forward the request. > > > As an optimization, the text allows the proxy to forward the request > immediately, if it has "knowledge" that the UA is awake. > > Ekr suggested that a proxy should always be allowed to forward the request > at the same time as requesting the push notification, without having any > knowledge about whether the UA is awake, and without waiting for the > REGISTER request/response. > > -What do I think? > > I do NOT think we should make this change. The WG did discuss this, > decided on the wait-for-the-REGISTER-2xx approach, and the draft explains > the reasons. > I agree. I do not think it is a good idea to always send request at the same time as push notification. The optimization is there when persistent TLS connection from the client is used, which is required on most mobile platforms. In this case proxy can determine that this connection is still active (recent TCP keep-alive was received on this connection). If this connection is active, proxy can send request immediately. If no connection from the client is available, proxy needs to send the push notification since there is no way to send the request to the client. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000574939057f4a555d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:27 AM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

-What is it about?

When a proxy receives a request, addressed towards the UA, the default beha= viour is to request that a push notification is sent to the UA, wait for th= e REGISTER request AND the associated REGISTER 2xx response, and then forwa= rd the request.


As an optimization, the text allows the proxy to forward the request immedi= ately, if it has "knowledge" that the UA is awake.

Ekr suggested that a proxy should always be allowed to forward the request = at the same time as requesting the push notification, without having any kn= owledge about whether the UA is awake, and without waiting for the REGISTER= request/response.

-What do I think?

I do NOT think we should make this change. The WG did discuss this, decided= on the wait-for-the-REGISTER-2xx approach, and the draft explains the reas= ons.

I agree. I do not th= ink it is a good idea to always send request at the same time as push notif= ication. The optimization is there=C2=A0 when persistent TLS connection from the client is used, which is required o= n most mobile platforms. In this case proxy can determine that this connect= ion is still active (recent TCP keep-alive was received on this connection)= . If this connection is active, proxy can send request immediately. If no c= onnection from the client is available, proxy needs to send the push notifi= cation since there is no way to send the request to the client.
<= br>
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount


=C2=A0
--000000000000574939057f4a555d-- From nobody Sat Jan 12 14:29:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D68F13111B for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:29:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.03 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.03 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7LO_7pBQiAGB for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4598A13111A for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id t13so7816309pgr.11 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:29:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rUSIr8fh/m8C3e50xgeF0YRby1MZhDSaPzxwPJX12dY=; b=wo1olnvRwF9KrNU6Eh3mM/Ro5PXLloTHl5lCZhO7lmi67bjdPiUvEF8OsRWCRr/Rig 3QJQsqNni2wMsw/QXYcMPzz/9PZQOtDFm6Ogm72pMbXGgjciI7/jcc+hEs8gEgw85M6E petDERiOp5d9DJt/9A1DEB6HbanBZCcdXShnQ+io/gLR+LgTrlxAGlzuAzCIJeovNnvh 5pYdQw5JJdIZbZF9mcpkXbmvLXhhDWLijBpWJJlURSRQTTl0z8ZJq49/0z7v0nPNlBZu U7/E3wFM7sDTK2lY75TOYaPWJnvMnYOEKUa2v4mH7HQZYDDrHi49FmMUUxrTwOGCj71g rrHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rUSIr8fh/m8C3e50xgeF0YRby1MZhDSaPzxwPJX12dY=; b=JxtkMyyAg8KspUTk2HN2Khh9/ZVHx56W3cJxrUr8eY3TCnF4H2Xvya2f+dFJZClTEF IDYgfchoCah+xF058n9jHrUh5WJZ66aItKpuiK51QEum98Uv2wx+IOcnl7fP47Vcc71r fXRcNwbhdOr+86hXqIBoGcAo8R2PFszksp+Mm+B8JtOZtojZT5wvVfGPlynnG+thYMvw GtJrJF3H0cndOZa+o4rPIDAaCHcG+rd6IhkbDaL6sMd+4m5xB3vtna32rR3rXlIgiuqw yImvVJpyV4YQK5y1cFy0fmvmRPsQOPLAlAPs2VLJ5FhEh5IU6Wyd6wpBUBkESqrPY31T X+Kw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeJkR92sUVDvsbgsHsyTWSLcTc2fAm2RLUOO5T/QZz/yfmyZeKH 3gv61Gz9YaLNL0/z10wygL7HDoUhGGw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4z+IIWBPMAFgzhVpPh1nwHoOylT9X38ppb9pMjf4S4ybHRbpyiqmGQl4QYX0U08yNAbNOU0Q== X-Received: by 2002:a63:f844:: with SMTP id v4mr17952882pgj.82.1547332192637; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-f177.google.com (mail-pf1-f177.google.com. [209.85.210.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h74sm152366503pfd.35.2019.01.12.14.29.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-f177.google.com with SMTP id h3so8609913pfg.1; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:29:51 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a63:5346:: with SMTP id t6mr18368109pgl.40.1547332191722; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:29:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <77D165C7-7501-4EE3-A89E-3E3D8349CB9C@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 17:29:41 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a32141057f4a5924" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's response code issue X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:29:55 -0000 --000000000000a32141057f4a5924 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:15 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > -What is it about? > > Adam indicated that the text is too strict (using MUST) regarding which > error response codes to use (404 or 480). He suggested that the text can > recommend usage of 404 or 480, and allow others. However, when sending an > error response to a mid-dialog request, the proxy needs to take into > consideration whether the response code only terminates the transaction, or > the whole dialog usage. > > -What do I think? > > I have no problem with Adam's suggestion. > > -What do I suggest? > > Recommend usage of 404 or 480, but allow usage of others. > > In the mid-dialog request section, add a reference to RFC 5057. > > I agree. We should make usage of 404 or 480 a SHOULD, but allow proxy to send other errors. _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000a32141057f4a5924 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:15 AM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

-What is it about?


Adam indicated that the text is too strict (using MUST) regarding which err= or response codes to use (404 or 480). He suggested that the text can recom= mend usage of 404 or 480, and allow others. However, when sending an error = response to a mid-dialog request, the proxy needs to take into consideration whether the response code only = terminates the transaction, or the whole dialog usage.

-What do I think?

I have no problem with Adam's suggestion.

-What do I suggest?

Recommend usage of 404 or 480, but allow usage of others.

In the mid-dialog request section, add a reference to RFC 5057.


I agree. We should make usage of 404 or 480 a SHOULD, but = allow proxy to send other errors.
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--000000000000a32141057f4a5924-- From nobody Sat Jan 12 14:36:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF68131132 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:36:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.03 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.03 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jgA-2ygsQOMw for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52d.google.com (mail-pg1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C60F613112D for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id v28so7823206pgk.10 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:36:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ddBIfdGpw1YB4jAdDWG8UubC2djtCp4Zjmj7hs0/uJw=; b=0ABsoIHaoqrVLiNfFqBD7s0cATc4IZ+M4oxLWSuLq6LmkvlU6txkVUC01i7KaT3uWb Tac+7jzov4NfmFKg3B77JztqQqBX50TVgDbJrLcDrgn+7fLUV06LrfRCsItqxNivbQcN dUF4i52huktNEHt6MseGTumldnit1iP2al7H5HjPANni0+gzIrTR/E4ImaAO5AR/f7BG 3AqDZdxhMUA4hYofKRhR1Kw/GLaNRvGzb631wHV5+EyXxo1xqvZLPCp4bnL0C02LTbRY wdgFaNCjqVEm0gEkFbO/fHccg0diRas2spscVMU5MnDXJ3IaX1wjuSOa1dz0T218gHY1 odwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ddBIfdGpw1YB4jAdDWG8UubC2djtCp4Zjmj7hs0/uJw=; b=Vc3FyXNsSENixN3QTf6NtZQC8bmyBUqz0/CVx8vCIcKtuVrZBT9XZ9LMIuv0OU3dtC Mteue7qDKvPlL4+kYIlTPcjwAfzrPp0Lz10udeSkyjn5B986XWATm3VtWkfy8hNRpTAn bCga4k9VL9kpJJjCnudOhPsDx0xMlrz41Exj+uJSAruhARwwZX5QYv/lCvIy1aVGAZui 53+Gfw1+Nd7Dg+LuDFddBlIQCavflTODRHtiekY912mXacbRLb9sWlyohHTnp7Ryn+71 KBHPONOyrfugJiCHoxMi9FldGGTh9jvBj4SN1lA5G8ywmOGWRLBoga55TX5Qq/lIhUs8 C5+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeBdUZAiE+hPgxcKcZGSPbSAOD8sCjbWIcfGJCokLC9e6naq1PK kGx0vqAtbsY5hk++JrCsqhkgJO2Ijfc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4iBF9a9SM2KnXYYAPWu3hY6eJDmSDnrAzTH2ht/hv2kr+tJN84eJuQBUB5kYG8t0df/c/ALg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:f65:: with SMTP id 37mr17909548pgp.238.1547332588210; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-f172.google.com (mail-pf1-f172.google.com. [209.85.210.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i2sm63265684pfi.66.2019.01.12.14.36.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-f172.google.com with SMTP id h3so8613676pfg.1; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:36:27 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a63:2e88:: with SMTP id u130mr18390611pgu.9.1547332587343; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:36:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <77D165C7-7501-4EE3-A89E-3E3D8349CB9C@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 17:36:16 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000037d57e057f4a7196" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's soft state issue X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:36:30 -0000 --00000000000037d57e057f4a7196 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:08 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > -What is it about? > > Adam indicated that the current solution does not allow negotiating push > notifications for subscription refreshes and session-timer refreshes. Of > course, one could use the same timer values as for the binding refresh, and > send SUBSCRIBE and/or re-INVITE at the same time as REGISTER. > > -What do I think? > > I think that, as far as the base mechanism is concerned, if this > functionality is needed one should use the binding refresh timer. I think > that should work at least for subscription refreshes. > > Regarding session-timers: > > First, they are only sent within INVITE initiated dialog, and the > assumption has been that the UA is awake during such dialogs. > > Second, IF there is a long-lived INVITE initiated dialog, where the UA > might go to sleep during the dialog, one could use the registration timer > also for that. > > (FWIW, I talked to some product people, and they had never heard about a > need for using push for session-timers.) > > -What do I suggest? > > My suggestion is to keep the existing binding-associated push > notification, and add text about how it can also be used for subscriptions > and/or session-timers, if needed. > > Then, once we get more deployment experience, IF we realize there is a > need to negotiate explicit push notifications for subscriptions and/or > session-timers we can define that in a separate draft. > During our implementation we have bound SUBSCRIBE intervals to Registration refresh intervals, so subscriptions were always refreshed at the same time as registrations. Registration refresh was initiated by the push notification. NOTIFY messages during subscription, such as MWI would cause a push notification which would wake up the client and make it issue Registration/Subscription which would cause the NOTIFY messages with subscription state. Session-timers during calls were trivial since client was awake and could use regular timers. We had no experience with long duration INVITE dialogs. I do not think anything needs to change in the current specification except for potentially additional explanation text. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000037d57e057f4a7196 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:08 AM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

-What is it about?


Adam indicated that the current solution does not allow negotiating pu= sh notifications for subscription refreshes and session-timer refreshes. Of= course, one could use the same timer values as for the binding refresh, an= d send SUBSCRIBE and/or re-INVITE at the same time as REGISTER.

-What do I think?

I think that, as far as the base mechanism is concerned, if this funct= ionality is needed one should use the binding refresh timer. I think that s= hould work at least for subscription refreshes.

Regarding session-timers:=C2=A0

First, they are only sent within INVITE initiated dialog, and the assu= mption has been that the UA is awake during such dialogs.

Second, IF there is a long-lived INVITE initiated dialog, where the UA= might go to sleep during the dialog, one could use the registration timer = also for that.=C2=A0

(FWIW, I talked to some product people, and they had never heard about= a need for using push for session-timers.)

-What do I suggest?

My suggestion is to keep the existing binding-associated push notifica= tion, and add text about how it can also be used for subscriptions and/or s= ession-timers, if needed.

Then, once we get more deployment experience, IF we realize there is a= need to negotiate explicit push notifications for subscriptions and/or ses= sion-timers we can define that in a separate draft.

During our implementation we have bound SUBSCRIB= E intervals to Registration refresh intervals, so subscriptions were always= refreshed at the same time as registrations. Registration refresh was init= iated by the push notification. NOTIFY messages during subscription, such a= s MWI would cause a push notification which would wake up the client and ma= ke it issue Registration/Subscription which would cause the NOTIFY messages= with subscription state.

Session-timers during ca= lls were trivial since client was awake and could use regular timers.
=

We had no experience with long duration INVITE dialogs.=

I do not think anything needs to change in the cu= rrent specification except for potentially additional explanation text.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
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Sun, 13 Jan 2019 13:33:55 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's response code issue Thread-Index: AQHUqnBvp90tlh64xUWCA0lukVQ+LKWsN72AgAD8cN0= Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 13:33:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <77D165C7-7501-4EE3-A89E-3E3D8349CB9C@nostrum.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [188.67.48.249] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB4396; 6:JSul1Sqo6nUgUGiSWCptWKFt5jHAXwi+tS+K2r1gc7vHayAtVKMf9RUYd4w2vrwElq7x7lLMYCUHbhwzH15G2UIoDTlbngDAYveZ2wNjePXuLkC31nffl2bpBO0Td+QrxSIpZBMttnGS9ZY7CdSpVLovzHi+5KBNsxtB1jTA475dMHrGmZeHStZMdqEUKqBwz+k/Za9zA5UhWY9/ow5fEJCOsZeuacGGcKfR55UHTyJEHl8ogNNYAzx4ISEVWjH2YnWUkJIlOdGd/ZweSpw/cJBERQooJvMScSekDC/6BwtTUZZBIjvCg1i+8lqYmn63R0mCVBeBWv0LH4/d9n8cbuUFL3N4twLjLQaWnf5WH0z6J4krIWWsLnMu+u8S0dkSDUuDYRxCCjJj9vX9OpG+wgdGekEiJ4PCMp0dGTBF62jOuyyrsK0cwQYMQwKraS/KjCVqm9zlLHaxxqMrLrtvXA==; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roman, The suggestion is to use RECOMMENDED for 404 and 480, but whatever the comm= unity decides... Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: Roman Shpount Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 12:29 AM To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Ben Campbell; sipcore@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.or= g Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's response code is= sue On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:15 AM Christer Holmberg > wrote: -What is it about? Adam indicated that the text is too strict (using MUST) regarding which err= or response codes to use (404 or 480). He suggested that the text can recom= mend usage of 404 or 480, and allow others. However, when sending an error = response to a mid-dialog request, the proxy needs to take into consideratio= n whether the response code only terminates the transaction, or the whole d= ialog usage. -What do I think? I have no problem with Adam's suggestion. -What do I suggest? Recommend usage of 404 or 480, but allow usage of others. In the mid-dialog request section, add a reference to RFC 5057. I agree. We should make usage of 404 or 480 a SHOULD, but allow proxy to se= nd other errors. _____________ Roman Shpount --_000_HE1PR07MB316118DCAF62BF3507D5AB6F93870HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Roman,


The suggestion is to use RECOMMEN= DED for 404 and 480, but whatever the community decides...


Regards,


Christer



From: Roman Shpount <rom= an@telurix.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 12:29 AM
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: Ben Campbell; sipcore@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@= ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's response = code issue
 
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:15 A= M Christer Holmberg <christer.ho= lmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

-What is it about?

=

Adam indicated that the text is too strict (using MUST) regarding whic= h error response codes to use (404 or 480). He suggested that the text can = recommend usage of 404 or 480, and allow others. However, when sending an e= rror response to a mid-dialog request, the proxy needs to take into consideration whether the response code only = terminates the transaction, or the whole dialog usage.

-What do I think?

I have no problem with Adam's suggestion.

-What do I suggest?

Recommend usage of 404 or 480, but allow usage of others.

In the mid-dialog request section, add a reference to RFC 5057.


I agree. We should make usage of 404 or 480 a SHOULD, but allow proxy = to send other errors.
_____________
Roman Shpount
 
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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Perhaps adding something like: "If a SIP UA needs to wake up for other usages than those described in this= document (e.g., for sending a subscription refresh SUBSCRIBE request [RFC6= 665]), this document does not define a mechanism to negotiate push notifica= tions explicitly for such usages. However, by using the same refresh interv= al that is used for the binding-refreshes, the UA can perform actions assoc= iated with such usages (in addition to sending a binding-refresh REGISTER r= equest) whenever it receives a push notification." Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: Roman Shpount Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 12:36 AM To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Ben Campbell; sipcore@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.or= g Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's soft state issue On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:08 AM Christer Holmberg > wrote: -What is it about? Adam indicated that the current solution does not allow negotiating push no= tifications for subscription refreshes and session-timer refreshes. Of cour= se, one could use the same timer values as for the binding refresh, and sen= d SUBSCRIBE and/or re-INVITE at the same time as REGISTER. -What do I think? I think that, as far as the base mechanism is concerned, if this functional= ity is needed one should use the binding refresh timer. I think that should= work at least for subscription refreshes. Regarding session-timers: First, they are only sent within INVITE initiated dialog, and the assumptio= n has been that the UA is awake during such dialogs. Second, IF there is a long-lived INVITE initiated dialog, where the UA migh= t go to sleep during the dialog, one could use the registration timer also = for that. (FWIW, I talked to some product people, and they had never heard about a ne= ed for using push for session-timers.) -What do I suggest? My suggestion is to keep the existing binding-associated push notification,= and add text about how it can also be used for subscriptions and/or sessio= n-timers, if needed. Then, once we get more deployment experience, IF we realize there is a need= to negotiate explicit push notifications for subscriptions and/or session-= timers we can define that in a separate draft. During our implementation we have bound SUBSCRIBE intervals to Registration= refresh intervals, so subscriptions were always refreshed at the same time= as registrations. Registration refresh was initiated by the push notificat= ion. NOTIFY messages during subscription, such as MWI would cause a push no= tification which would wake up the client and make it issue Registration/Su= bscription which would cause the NOTIFY messages with subscription state. Session-timers during calls were trivial since client was awake and could u= se regular timers. We had no experience with long duration INVITE dialogs. I do not think anything needs to change in the current specification except= for potentially additional explanation text. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --_000_HE1PR07MB316159F430171DB819358DD193870HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


Perhaps adding something like:


"If a SIP UA needs to wake u= p for other usages than those described in this document (e.g., for sending= a subscription refresh SUBSCRIBE request [RFC6665]), this document does no= t define a mechanism to negotiate push notifications explicitly for such usages. However, by using the same refre= sh interval that is used for the binding-refreshes, the UA can perform acti= ons associated with such usages (in addition to sending a binding-refresh R= EGISTER request) whenever it receives a push notification."


Regards,


Christer



From: Roman Shpount <rom= an@telurix.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 12:36 AM
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: Ben Campbell; sipcore@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@= ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's soft stat= e issue
 
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:08 A= M Christer Holmberg <christer.ho= lmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

-What is it about?


Adam indicated that the current solution does not allow negotiating pu= sh notifications for subscription refreshes and session-timer refreshes. Of= course, one could use the same timer values as for the binding refresh, an= d send SUBSCRIBE and/or re-INVITE at the same time as REGISTER.

-What do I think?

I think that, as far as the base mechanism is concerned, if this funct= ionality is needed one should use the binding refresh timer. I think that s= hould work at least for subscription refreshes.

Regarding session-timers: 

First, they are only sent within INVITE initiated dialog, and the assu= mption has been that the UA is awake during such dialogs.

Second, IF there is a long-lived INVITE initiated dialog, where the UA= might go to sleep during the dialog, one could use the registration timer = also for that. 

(FWIW, I talked to some product people, and they had never heard about= a need for using push for session-timers.)

-What do I suggest?

My suggestion is to keep the existing binding-associated push notifica= tion, and add text about how it can also be used for subscriptions and/or s= ession-timers, if needed.

Then, once we get more deployment experience, IF we realize there is a= need to negotiate explicit push notifications for subscriptions and/or ses= sion-timers we can define that in a separate draft.

During our implementation we have bound SUBSCRIBE intervals to Registr= ation refresh intervals, so subscriptions were always refreshed at the same= time as registrations. Registration refresh was initiated by the push noti= fication. NOTIFY messages during subscription, such as MWI would cause a push notification which would wake= up the client and make it issue Registration/Subscription which would caus= e the NOTIFY messages with subscription state.

Session-timers during calls were trivial since client was awake and co= uld use regular timers.

We had no experience with long duration INVITE dialogs.

I do not think anything needs to change in the current specification e= xcept for potentially additional explanation text.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
 
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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >> I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. >> I will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers >> Adam's issue regarding proxies knowing what downstream proxies support. >> >> -What is it about? >> >> The text allows a proxy to forward a REGISTER request to another proxy, >> if it "knows" that is supports a PNS supported by the UA. >> >> Adam asked how a proxy would know. >> >> -What do I think? >> >> The knowledge is done by operator configuration, but I agree that is not >> clear in the text. >> >> -What do I suggest? >> >> Add text clarifying that the knowledge is based on operator configuratio= n. > >Features that require configuration are burdensome and prone to error. A >mechanism that doesn't require it is preferred. > >Without going into detail, ISTM that a mechanism can be devised that >doesn't require this knowledge. But this first requires deciding who >should choose when multiple PNSs are supported by both client and >proxies/registrar. > >One possibility is to use one round trip to discover what PNSs are >supported by proxies on the path. Then the client can choose one, >initialize just *that* PNS, and then another round trip to enable that >choice. This is basically how it already works. Note that the suggested change appl= ies to "query mode", where the UA does *not* provide a PRID, so no PNS wil= l be "enabled". Then, when the UA wants to enable a PNS, it sends a *single* PRID, associat= ed with the PNS it wants to use - as currently specified. Now, I have no problem with allowing multiple proxies to indicate support o= f one or more PNSs (or a single proxy indicating support of multiple PNSs) = in query mode, if people think that would be useful. That would mean adding= one Feature-Caps header field per supported PNS. So, in query mode, a REGISTER 2xx response could look something like: Feature-Caps: +apns Feature-Caps: +fcm Feature-Caps: +webpush, vapid However, I still want to allow a proxy to send 555, if it "knows" that no d= ownstream proxy will support any of the PNSs indicated by the UA. The reaso= n is to avoid the REGISTER to reach the registrar and cause a registration = that won't be needed (since there is no common PNS supported by the UA and = any of the proxies). Regards, Christer This way would be less efficient in initial setup because it >would require two round trips, but it would be more efficient long term >because the client would only have to enable the PNS that will be used, >and we might be able to find a way to eliminate the unneeded push >proxies from the path. Another way would be for the client to indicate its preference among supported PNSs. During the request, the highest priority supported PNS can be identified. Then in the response, the proxy supporting that PNS can do the necessary setup. This only requires one round trip. But it requires the registrar to mirror something from the request to the response. It also requires the client to initialize all supported PNSs even though only one will be used. Yet another way would be for client to indicate all supported PNSs. The first proxy that supports one of them becomes the push proxy, and removes the request for a push proxy before forwarding the request. Push proxies that don't support any of the PNSs just forward the request. If none of the PNSs are supported, the registration will complete without one. In that case the client will have to decide whether to cope with that or remove the registration and give up. This approach only takes one round trip (except in case of non-support). But the choice of which PNS to use is made based on the order of proxies, not on client preference. And again the client has to initialize all its supported PNSs. In all of these, after the initial registration the client can optimize for the chosen PNS. It can close down sessions with other PNSs and only mention the chosen PNS in future registration requests. Thanks, Paul _______________________________________________ sipcore mailing list sipcore@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore sipcore Info Page - IETF www.ietf.org Your email address: Your name (optional): You may enter a privacy password = below. This provides only mild security, but should prevent others from mes= sing with your ... --_000_HE1PR07MB316198B66E9FE97123F1DDA293870HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

>> I have already created threads for a coup= le of the issues listed by Ben.
>> I will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers=
>> Adam's issue regarding proxies knowing what downstream proxies sup= port.
>> 
>> -What is it about?
>>
>> The text allows a proxy to forward a REGISTER request to another p= roxy,
>> if it "knows" that is supports a PNS supported by the UA= .
>> 
>> Adam asked how a proxy would know.
>> 
>> -What do I think?
>> 
>> The knowledge is done by operator configuration, but I agree that is not <= br> >> clear in the text.
>>
>> -What do I suggest?
>>
>> Add text clarifying that the knowledge is based on operator configuration.=
>
>Feature= s that require configuration are burdensome and prone to error. A
>mechani= sm that doesn't require it is preferred.
>
>Without going into detail, ISTM that a mechanism can be devised that
>doesn't require this knowledge. But this first requires de= ciding who
>should choose when multiple PNSs are supported by both client and
>proxies/registrar.
>
>One possibility is to use one round trip to discover what PNSs are
>supported by proxies on the path. Then the client can choose one,
>initialize just *that* PNS, and then another round trip to enable that =
>choice.

This is basically how it already works. Note that = the suggested change applies to "query mode", where the UA does *= not*  provide a PRID, so no PNS will be "enabled".

Then, when the UA wants to enable a PNS, it sends = a *single* PRID, associated with the PNS it wants to use - as currently spe= cified.

Now, I have no problem with allowing multiple prox= ies to indicate support of one or more PNSs (or a single proxy indicating s= upport of multiple PNSs) in query mode, if people think that would be usefu= l. That would mean adding one Feature-Caps header field per supported PNS. 

So, in query mode, a REGISTER 2xx response could l= ook something like:

Feature-Caps: +apns
Feature-Caps: +fcm
Feature-Caps: +webpush, vapid

However, I still want to allow a proxy to send 555= , if it "knows" that no downstream proxy will support any of the = PNSs indicated by the UA. The reason is to avoid the REGISTER to reach the = registrar and cause a registration that won't be needed (since there is no common PNS supported by the UA and any of the= proxies).

Regards,

Christer








 This way would be less efficient in initial = setup because it
>would require two round trips, but it would be= more efficient long term
>because the client would only have to enable the PNS that will be used,=
>and we might be able to find a way to eliminate the unneeded push
>proxies from the path.




Another way would be for the client to indicate its preference among
supported PNSs. During the request, the highest priority supported PNS
can be identified. Then in the response, the proxy supporting that PNS
can do the necessary setup. This only requires one round trip. But it
requires the registrar to mirror something from the request to the
response. It also requires the client to initialize all supported PNSs
even though only one will be used.

Yet another way would be for client to indicate all supported PNSs. The first proxy that supports one of them becomes the push proxy, and
removes the request for a push proxy before forwarding the request. Push proxies that don't support any of the PNSs just forward the request. If none of the PNSs are supported, the registration will complete without
one. In that case the client will have to decide whether to cope with
that or remove the registration and give up. This approach only takes
one round trip (except in case of non-support). But the choice of which PNS to use is made based on the order of proxies, not on client
preference. And again the client has to initialize all its supported PNSs.<= br>
In all of these, after the initial registration the client can optimize for the chosen PNS. It can close down sessions with other PNSs and only mention the chosen PNS in future registration requests.

        Thanks,
        Paul

_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/sipcore
www.ietf.org
Your email address: Your name (optional): You may enter a privacy password = below. This provides only mild security, but should prevent others from mes= sing with your ...


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On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 8:41 AM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Perhaps adding something like:


"If a SIP UA needs to wa= ke up for other usages than those described in this document (e.g., for sen= ding a subscription refresh SUBSCRIBE request [RFC6665]), this document doe= s not define a mechanism to negotiate push notifications explicitly for such usages. However, by using the same refre= sh interval that is used for the binding-refreshes, the UA can perform acti= ons associated with such usages (in addition to sending a binding-refresh R= EGISTER request) whenever it receives a push notification."



This looks good=C2=A0to me.

Thank You,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--000000000000ff4a2b057f5cfa91-- From nobody Sun Jan 13 12:44:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD69128766 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:44:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.031 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.031 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TcXSXnqJJKEN for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:44:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3B7D127598 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id j10so8578282pga.1 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:44:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8RxzweDbT+ema6YoS4jDW9jtgrcGZGPzRoFiz0lgCi8=; b=mww21GZN30Dg3EalEDvxZ+o/Um0vsm2F/7rlqKLY0s83ngoBpxQXVrwQdMMmRhQDWZ ox7dVt2AM2SmmEGUIV2GCRoW6J210mxuzb1xAVO3XiZx/FtEp6Digw8x/jALQLwfURZZ HmeAqF8tmRugjVRFJx3YbevqCfmyAh0iB7wX89EBPJHBcl0CDS9yCYUO0/ITBFcNfz+G MCfne7jBjyCBX0fCTCJaWvxEdEhN5xijtkMtFarcJG23Gwl5tURaWY3l37sbSlh3xNva 0lfFjwcMCm6/6rb+F/tNO71lRbS24GoPSKKhiM2z9699W88rjziPUKj+lnGJ0JW4gDMY zv3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8RxzweDbT+ema6YoS4jDW9jtgrcGZGPzRoFiz0lgCi8=; b=q0xi5IsAT8cTPE4JEFP2pQDmogvbmOnsKaZRpwjUD7F1qz4rHnUdKZja2Ov5U7zM0A W1n4ndBOu/TjpYFfi9cPeqiezFOZGQEKr+pVXTn6ucMDwYM8Q7bS76hFhZf8O3LXzJXl rMYHKT4vSs9IfHCYVUPtQ0ABULLhLk3ll7EloJP/I2zJM5+AJa+8Qq2gaZqC9/VllMqK SeQHBg/fEEauJ24ndH5jNQCVFn36R4WLtinc//TBa1oTuLloKND3lMqOxfDr2bDFjQrZ Z0VwjCcC/fBvXlFqN3f1dOYC6HTeVpj8+lB8jlvBYcDJu9iVGqaL7AMniiWJhOh0xur1 +WTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukewyD17+95Wi1pS26cu/tE6p0OZe4ro6AJnApngVXD3lwbVWVNj 6xnTJUfbeONnc3JW56BiKoiOUlPO5vQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7iny8OFMLhYni5XYOoKmCA776VugsMOHwIl+GO3oZ0j7trjBiVgfjgyFwpdsfNcLyLNDj1ag== X-Received: by 2002:a65:4646:: with SMTP id k6mr20245769pgr.153.1547412281336; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-f182.google.com (mail-pf1-f182.google.com. [209.85.210.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h69sm100612701pge.4.2019.01.13.12.44.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:44:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-f182.google.com with SMTP id i12so9361141pfo.7; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:44:40 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a63:2e88:: with SMTP id u130mr21033832pgu.9.1547412280407; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:44:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <77D165C7-7501-4EE3-A89E-3E3D8349CB9C@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:44:30 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004b7e04057f5cff72" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's response code issue X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 20:44:44 -0000 --0000000000004b7e04057f5cff72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 8:33 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > The suggestion is to use RECOMMENDED for 404 and 480, but whatever the > community decides... > > > RECOMMENDED also works for me. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000004b7e04057f5cff72 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 8:33 AM C= hrister Holmberg <chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

The suggestion is to use RECOMMENDED for 404 and 480, but whatever the co= mmunity decides...



RECOMMENDED also works for me.

=
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--0000000000004b7e04057f5cff72-- From nobody Sun Jan 13 15:01:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04C812E04D for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:01:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=O1B4Cj5y; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=N2TfCuoE Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j4uA8xm2OScX for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:01:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from wnew4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wnew4-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2C5B12D4EA for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:01:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailnew.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF30B16AE for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 18:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from web4 ([10.202.2.214]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 13 Jan 2019 18:01:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=message-id:from:to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:references:subject:in-reply-to:date; s=fm1; bh=dI+ F/gYCA8foeIEp1XtDeOTD2dQEQGT8AO3ueRAQZPo=; b=O1B4Cj5yYepxi9x4Y8G UNkSJNNvwjg2eLSslVR9rhgqVHxbzLOQ3yNmupQRXPEFvh2UFd+HQqJ4V/wZT76c qJTzr20EfJ56TSHqQJo/3/qpRxTxDdAhY3DxKu3eHbZYralAcaisLxR9FW/mJrgf GCMJK5zg5H1QNnitZrrC/fTLYwPW9gVTruHEdNjhaUQeTaV3SryDarbeDSYmCk8/ w2JPIaxrQrsov2Dk42fs5g3psFzCkQI0CQhJ3E8ue4R7eBB2FAxr9k8got+NjIle c1AQEcxZsu6RlweXdyh7euGJPN3DS5LfTvfFT4SUL56sFIzjnvYkx8WFzNNTvjqO ygQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=dI+F/gYCA8foeIEp1XtDeOTD2dQEQGT8AO3ueRAQZ Po=; b=N2TfCuoEYJsz7FpZchVZMH3mDswk2N3osF8UX/kWWHLHwxMzqnOryQPdz XO5FnMVTCMMqdweooLqcc42mPHRVx9OnKsgQMwRlRQlT+o789yW80nBBQeo6iF2Y Vcm08Vc92sXLt4l6YjL5Iu2Q1EhdMgxecj9qJ140Y+lMJ2v6B0zstZcUKGVeIEYG zZVcEFMrW/feXXMCpLU2sXnSeELvthU9XqaSnv2hXRlnPsM+NDoKgyi7nrWt8gP2 0E9cWDcSpdmwjuvuxGt7lFT0Wvb6jlER5NeAygcWl8UuDc1D8BPRsT5kSFFqbDJ2 HQ6f4N00PiCffATDElZCLFBfq/h9A== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtledrgedtgddthecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfhuthenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedt tdenucenucfjughrpefkhffvggfgtgfofhfujgffsehtjeertdertdejnecuhfhrohhmpe forghrthhinhcuvfhhohhmshhonhcuoehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeen ucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhtsehlohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvthenuc evlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 90F78BA783; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 18:01:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1547420463.937763.1633573208.0BFF14D8@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Martin Thomson To: sipcore@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-36e4bfd3 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:01:03 +1100 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested Change: push parameters sent to non-trusted endpoints X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:01:09 -0000 On Sat, Jan 12, 2019, at 05:45, Roman Shpount wrote: > On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 9:23 AM Christer Holmberg < > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > > My suggestion is to add additional text to the draft (Security > > Considerations) that highlights the RFC 3680 issue, and that operators that > > deploy SIP push need to make sure the push related information is not > > shared with non-trusted entities. > > > I agree. I think listing this issue in Security Considerations should be > sufficient. As long as there is a "MUST" attached to that mention, I'm OK with that outcome. 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+0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=SHQyNcAHIwIVttLI/eGIVKlU8ffCcfgMichMURskkjw=; b=fkXWESz6w9xhEXpxeuv+IDpXI0FgvvfmhlAkhQDZ3MFSlVZ8vbCK/AOVB+wGxprn/u6bK+fjpCuM79f/9rRL+LdN6IGdFf/91yuGF7eNW7sTBHmv/t+aURVQ28PHgNYGMDnyb2v0ZBOYZ90hFzc8YeEEVbrLAarcO3elW5yL04A= Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.245.23) by HE1PR07MB3209.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.246.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1537.17; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:01:07 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1537.018; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:01:07 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Martin Thomson , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Suggested 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MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f83eecc6-16bf-4937-88ad-08d67a0733c9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Jan 2019 10:01:07.0448 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3209 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA01Sa0hTYRjuO7sdh4vP6fTNy48NAjO80g8js5KiESqWBOYlO8uTinPKjjMN AhGKpghTm+RsmbpSxEtJ6pQQlZCUZmbgpcimKTF/2EozU7O2nRX9e27v9174SI64mudP5qqK aLWKUsr4Qm59Sr8mdCUjJj2iblwaPWBpIKK/b/XwTxJyk+knIe+ydQmSiFRhTBatzC2m1eGx V4Q5t3TXCsd8SybXygVlaFdSgTxIwEdgvWWDX4GEpBi/QGCcKuOwZBNBe5+e/49ot0Z4LDER 0L/y0RXjYh0HOhfMbqeWgJePaxBLlhBUdcw6YiTJx9FQuXfY2dEHJ8BUk47rxN6Ygq5OLY/V FWDWW/ksjgOLrgo5S7n4ILR+SXTKInwCZno23PPZEGxanwqchgdOgtur95ETI+wLPyY6CCfm YD94t9xIsJtiMD1/zWGxBGyf9lx9JTgcrN+GBawuBcvaojsfBNONla5dAJcLYG6ozW2Egl2v dz+UAOOTA+7QFIIJo4XHGiGgXZhDLM6D2uF2d0EgzKw389gCLR+mu7d5OhRp+G9ag2NrDj4E 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[sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's issue on proxies knowing what downstream proxies support X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:14:23 -0000 On 1/13/19 9:07 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Hi, > >>> I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. >>> I will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers >>> Adam's issue regarding proxies knowing what downstream proxies support. >>> >>> -What is it about? >>> >>> The text allows a proxy to forward a REGISTER request to another proxy, >>> if it "knows" that is supports a PNS supported by the UA. >>> >>> Adam asked how a proxy would know. >>> >>> -What do I think? >>> >> > The knowledge is done by operator configuration, but I agree that is not >> > clear in the text. >> > >> > -What do I suggest? >> > >> > Add text clarifying that the knowledge is based on operator > configuration. >> >>Features that require configuration are burdensome and prone to error. A >>mechanism that doesn't require it is preferred. >> >>Without going into detail, ISTM that a mechanism can be devised that >>doesn't require this knowledge. But this first requires deciding who >>should choose when multiple PNSs are supported by both client and >>proxies/registrar. >> >>One possibility is to use one round trip to discover what PNSs are >>supported by proxies on the path. Then the client can choose one, >>initialize just *that* PNS, and then another round trip to enable that >>choice. > > This is basically how it already works. Note that the suggested change > applies to "query mode", where the UA does *not* provide a PRID, so no > PNS will be "enabled". Ah! I didn't catch that point. > Then, when the UA wants to enable a PNS, it sends a *single* PRID, > associated with the PNS it wants to use - as currently specified. OK, that seems reasonable. > Now, I have no problem with allowing multiple proxies to indicate > support of one or more PNSs (or a single proxy indicating support of > multiple PNSs) in query mode, if people think that would be useful. That > would mean adding one Feature-Caps header field per supported PNS. > > So, in query mode, a REGISTER 2xx response could look something like: > > Feature-Caps: +apns > Feature-Caps: +fcm > Feature-Caps: +webpush, vapid And then the UA gets to choose. Sounds good. > However, I still want to allow a proxy to send 555, if it "knows" that > no downstream proxy will support any of the PNSs indicated by the UA. While I have no problem with this if the proxy truly knows, I'm not inclined to trust a proxy's judgement on this point. It will be pretty tempting for implementations to simply *assume* they are the only one and always send the 555. Do we expect that there will be adequate motivation for proxies to do this right? > The reason is to avoid the REGISTER to reach the registrar and cause a > registration that won't be needed (since there is no common PNS > supported by the UA and any of the proxies). I understand the desire to optimize here, but it is likely to be an almost insignificant optimization. It will save *one* registration, but when using PUSH there will most likely be *many* subsequent push-triggered registrations. Is it worth the bother and complexity? Thanks, Paul From nobody Mon Jan 14 10:27:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7E91311FF for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:27:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=D/DYTxRJ; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=k9iFMdJ4 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LAtPMdZ7pNsD for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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+0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cdnDYS6qNQX2gESh+KfVYxVCZhygvmZXtRMBoKosa2w=; b=k9iFMdJ4fjalymW2Eblo2Un4agUq7vO6qSGqYxYTU99j4EJ9VsFGPmRgSXPPGFBoa4i/OAH69g6qXtF8Hd78MxoI5X3/f2LOb9CmEfoYZG8T30+DvUWxa8HR3PwVR+K4nHk5pgVmApZjpe4Yyxg1S2J5laTdqGqaSjkggh6nEwM= Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.245.23) by HE1PR07MB4331.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.176.167.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1537.18; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:27:17 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::852a:3f04:e342:cf55%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1537.018; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:27:17 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's issue on proxies knowing what downstream proxies support Thread-Index: AQHUqnE92N288fDsQkGGgPjG0KN7FqWr6BuAgAFP94OAAcwygIAANe6A Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:27:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <77D165C7-7501-4EE3-A89E-3E3D8349CB9C@nostrum.com> <57ab305b-1a00-7df3-0370-10f82cf2c9a7@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.14.0.181208 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [89.166.49.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB4331; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Jan 2019 18:27:17.5423 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB4331 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprAKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7uW77FZsYg12HhS1WbDjAavH1xyY2 ByaPv+8/MHksWfKTKYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSvj8Y/7bAX7dCr29P5ia2Bco93FyMEhIWAi 8XZFSBcjF4eQwBFGiQm3/rNDON8YJbpPXmWFc/Ze3Q6VWcIkcWDRfKYuRk4OFoEJzBJbLwdD JCYzScw//p4NwnnEKHFj604mkCVsAhYS3f+0QRpEBAIlri6ZwAxiCwuUSiycN4kVIl4m0fR7 DZTtJtGx5TQbxAJVic3HjrCD2LwC9hIrrkHYQgIXmCQWvEoEsTkFHCTuX37PAmIzCohJfD+1 Buw4ZgFxiVtPIA6VEBCQWLLnPDOELSrx8vE/sF2iAvoSDz4dYIfoTZTYv+oBVI2ixNl3D6F6 ZSUuze9mBPlLQqCJXWL2g1WsEAldiQ9Tp0I1+Eq87p3FClF0ARiSrRehEloSn6/cgLKzJV4v Wglly0hc+7yIdQKj4Swkx84ChhezgKbE+l36EGEPiWVrJ7JC2IoSU7ofss8Ch4WgxMmZT1gW MLKuYhQtTi0uzk03MtJLLcpMLi7Oz9PLSy3ZxAhMJwe3/LbawXjwueMhRgEORiUeXstLNjFC 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VUEsIHNpbmNlIGl0IGFueXdheSB3b24ndCBiZSBhYmxlIHRvIHJlY2VpdmUgaW5jb21pbmcgY2Fs bHMuDQoNCiAgIEFuZCwgdGhpcyBpcyBub3QgbmV3IHRleHQgLSB0aGUgb3B0aW9uIHRvIGVpdGhl ciBmb3J3YXJkIHRoZSByZXF1ZXN0IG9yIHNlbmQgNTU1IGhhcyBiZWVuIHRoZXJlIGFsbCB0aGUg dGltZS4NCg0KICAgIFJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCiAgICBDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Jan 14 15:16:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9103B12DF72; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:16:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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b=KCSyxV6Izf2CdjiIaol+c60sgxACprC6p/grNF2fxBTo/s9c3+4+GWSIoo7k4Q44q ssS4Ee22G/KC+UkpMCcng3wgfHSsNpEJEGVGwaEwb+JiZh0YxKRKIm1QeDq5EDCgQL qRQW9ytu+4BdL7k8RAp5xqqnbg2J+iBzJEDA9cyI= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <29F0C4B1-41DE-421B-9223-B45CDC00F7C0@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DD10F6DE-496B-483D-A475-05D1C47FF4B5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:16:48 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org To: draft-ietf-sipcore-callinfo-spam.all@ietf.org References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-callinfo-spam-03 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 23:16:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DD10F6DE-496B-483D-A475-05D1C47FF4B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, What=E2=80=99s the status of getting a new revision or otherwise = responding to my comments? There was some urgency for this draft at the = start, please don=E2=80=99t let it stall out this late in the process. Thanks! Ben. > On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:30 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > Hi, >=20 > This is my AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-callinfo-spam-03. I = have one major comment, and a few minor and editorial comments. I=E2=80=99= d like to resolve the major comment prior to IETF last call. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. >=20 >=20 > *** Major Comments *** >=20 > The draft needs to better describe the trust model. Currently, it says = that a UA must ignore any spam parameters unless the registrar included = the Feature-Caps tag. That implies the UA trusts the SIP service to = label spam; I=E2=80=99m not sure that will always be true. >=20 > Likewise, it=E2=80=99s not clear to me when the callee=E2=80=99s SIP = service might trust spam labeling from the caller=E2=80=99s service or = some intermediary between them. I expect that we will see bad actors = label everything as =E2=80=9Cgovernment=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Chealth=E2=80=9D= .. There=E2=80=99s a mention of signing the parameters, but that=E2=80=99s= dependent upon a hypothetical STIR extension that may or may not exist. >=20 > Perhaps the best we can do is say the callee=E2=80=99s service needs = to use it=E2=80=99s own local policy to decide what to trust. Even then, = do we expect at least TLS integrity protection of the spam parameters = between the caller and callee services? Do we expect calling number = authentication (i.e. STIR)? >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t mean to say that I know what the right answers are = here, but I think the security considerations need to at least document = the assumptions and potential issues or vulnerabilities, especially if = there=E2=80=99s a risk of attackers tampering with the labels. >=20 > *** Minor Comments *** >=20 > =C2=A72: Is there a reason not to use the new boilerplate from RFC = 8174? There are a few lower case instances of =E2=80=9Cmay=E2=80=9D; = these are ambiguous under the original 2119 boilerplate. >=20 > =C2=A73: I don=E2=80=99t think it is appropriate to use a normative = MAY when talking about a hypothetical future passport extension that may = or may not ever happen. >=20 > Also, the reference for passport (ppt) should be RFC 8225. >=20 > =C2=A74, definition of =E2=80=9Creason=E2=80=9D: The definition = describes extended information, not the =E2=80=9Creason=E2=80=9D in the = normal sense of the term. In particular, I would normally expect a = reason phrase to be human-readable, which would have i18n = considerations. Is it too late to call this something different? >=20 > =C2=A75: > - definition of =E2=80=9Cinformational=E2=80=9D: It=E2=80=99s not = clear to me if the calling party is supposed to believe that a business = relationship exists, or if it =E2=80=9Cis believed to=E2=80=9D have such = a relationship by whatever inserts the label. If the latter, how would = it know? (This relates to my major comments about the trust model). >=20 > - definition of =E2=80=9Cspoofed=E2=80=9D: How does this interact with = STIR? >=20 > =C2=A711.2: Depending on the resolution of my major comments, the = reference to 4474bis (now RFC8224) may need to be normative. >=20 > *** Editorial Comments *** >=20 > =C2=A71, 1st paragraph, =E2=80=9Cbut unwanted callers may not provide = their true name or use a name that > misleads=E2=80=9D: I suggest =E2=80=9C... may not provide their true = name or _may_ use a name that misleads...=E2=80=9D to avoid ambiguity = about whether the =E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D applies to both alternatives or = just the first. >=20 > =C2=A73: > - first paragraph, "This document describes a new set of optional = parameters and usage > for the SIP [RFC3261] Call-Info header field, purpose "info", for > labeling the nature of the call.=E2=80=9D: I suggest =E2=80=98...with = a purpose of =E2=80=9Cinfo...=E2=80=9D =E2=80=98 >=20 > - Third paragraph, "MAY be several Call-Info header instances=E2=80=9D: = That =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D seems like a statement rather than = permission. >=20 > =C2=A76.2: The heading says =E2=80=9CINVITE request=E2=80=9D, but the = contents are not an INVITE request. I assume it=E2=80=99s intended to be = a Caller-Info header field as it might appear in an INVITE request? If = so, please say that explicitly. >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_DD10F6DE-496B-483D-A475-05D1C47FF4B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw9GGAACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A2d/g/8CNL7cGLsS/EymVH0lxfghnICTWyIaDlKi/5I/4wt+GQjzOFfE33LiExS 6QxyU8FYzYEaLlNd72Yi3+DhHO7p8lmlRJwpyDL3P4ILG4uXdlRZr8Zprk3mTxiD Lzup/KNmJL0Ov3HIZQctWjAVnPgYCHNvPctW+sJ/g5PZLjwT3eXY3l9cAusBIRU6 qzlcGEu2BEgQXg46KcrftFZy5EJm/6WtVjle0t+VUVAtBVjOM68krHVUO1yXIsr0 qVdrkWbaL05JeDsvQM63ktnGoLewmjm4Lwxe8v3Vp2zo4jBAE4UWCDkf4pDyjvkl 3OUUR82L7BI097iGkb2JQDS7k/jWhyezUZDuY+QdORQT5f4y/m6P//E++NcBoJT6 So0qUA2lazHU3HpmRsUMeaOy3/qsZLMfRrySM2/WnJfRTTtzpKcdzEBKVp9X3DN+ X1sHJ3yS5Qnw5nn2pzQZucy+docJaG2EB+4mMrJYJkE0ALNm1Lf1bJtBskSv7qZT PwgaodSjTS4GkXQYqGUSHodNEODW+l2N26ky8vr6KX2hd1rcJIEGG+cNWYldtwnT gFcqV1CSLj9sSB0HE1uFRuWzqwSvjq+ue5X3kkqNV4e2xcMh+g23OFXxJO5MpdG7 p2XBU5FyRpU1GADcZsYCMIbapH+NZJ4G+VpNxUGTDhS3Ap8cRJM= =CqsQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_DD10F6DE-496B-483D-A475-05D1C47FF4B5-- From nobody Mon Jan 14 15:30:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D83D713142D; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:29:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ZhbU_6N6Sut; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:29:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BCD212D7EA; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x0ENTnjZ059726 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:29:50 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1547508591; bh=6C/nhoUBS+MM/FlY+hcnd8N4gzitHIsufkXZGzZKyY8=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=Ppd5YJmHvNCuozWjvizv3jj8ZsRyKAUTKdOOS/eIAWHFVwUdhNITpTS2Lhg7VwwSN OQSTTucOt8KAqf27tbVMaFbx7EHEGXMQxEKtvnDBP8qMpH77RBwGJKELvnn1OsfPJw D0gPaoFwMEZY1usBQURg4bnbc5G3L3Y+b//0iQ7I= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.45] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <39984F53-5EA4-475C-B060-C2E16CF37FB3@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0913F1A8-0323-405C-969C-80BBC2DAC212"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:29:48 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc.all@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org, sipcore-chairs@ietf.org To: R.Jesske@telekom.de References: <34AC90DD-12D6-4F34-B2A0-A1BB4D66A701@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 23:29:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0913F1A8-0323-405C-969C-80BBC2DAC212 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DE2DDD93-A593-44BC-A3E7-4651A898CED5" --Apple-Mail=_DE2DDD93-A593-44BC-A3E7-4651A898CED5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Apologies for the late response. I somehow missed seeing your response = until now. Comments inline. I removed sections that seem resolved. Please submit a new revision as soon as you are ready. Thanks! Ben. > On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:38 AM, R.Jesske@telekom.de wrote: >=20 >>=20 [...] >> *** Substantive Comments *** >>=20 >> =C2=A73: =E2=80=9Copen to be used by any other network=E2=80=9D >> That would really mean =E2=80=9Cany other network that includes ISUP = interworking >> gateways and uses Q.850 reason codes=E2=80=9D, right? >>=20 > [RJ] Yes >> =C2=A74: >> - Figure 1: Is it possible the Q.850 location code list will ever = change? if so, >> how will this list stay in sync? 3326 just referenced Q.850 for the = reason >> codes; can this do the same? >>=20 > [RJ] PSTN is sooner or later going in retirement. > The bit values (0000-1111) will not be extended. The naming of = locations defined within Q.850 will from my point of view not change. = Nevertheless all values which could change have an generic naming within = the draft. Since we have discussed the same possibility earlier, thus we = have added all values from 0000 to 1111. >=20 > So an interworking can be guaranteed in any case, even the naming of = the location in PSTN may change. >=20 > The last try to change any location was around 2002 in ITU-T and that = was not successful. > The only changes appearing is adding a cause value. The latest 3 cause = values were added in 2001, 2002 and 2018. > But changing location names would result in PSTN with big = incompatibilities where everybody. Thus touching locations in ISUP would = harm. Okay. >=20 >> - =E2=80=9CThus other values are not within the scope of this = document.=E2=80=9D > [RJ] Yes 16 Values is the maximum number. >> I=E2=80=99m not sure what that means. Are non-listed values = forbidden? Undefined? >> Are they defined in _other_ documents? > [RJ] We have interworked every possible bit value out of Q.850 for = location, there are no more left over. IIUC, you are saying there are no possible other values. If so, perhaps = =E2=80=9CThus other values are out of scope...=E2=80=9D would make more = sense as =E2=80=9CThus other values are not possible=E2=80=9D? >>=20 >> - "Depending on the direction the UAC or UAS shall include the = location...=E2=80=9D >> I=E2=80=99m not sure what that means. Does it mean =E2=80=9CDepending = on whether the >> message is a request or a response=E2=80=9D? > [RJ] Yes this can be a request or an response. Do you expect some more = worde then? I think =E2=80=9CDepending on whether the message is a request or a = response...=E2=80=9D would be more clear than =E2=80=9CDepending on the = direction..." >>=20 >> Also, is that =E2=80=9Cshall=E2=80=9D intended as normative? (I = suggest it not, since I assume >> inserting the location is optional.) Would it make sense to just say = =E2=80=9C... the UAC >> or UAS includes the location...=E2=80=9D? >=20 > [RJ] Yes SHALL=3DMUST. Within Q.850 the location is mandatory to be = set when sending a cause Value. > That is why we put in shall. But I could life also with your proposal. I=E2=80=99m okay with making it normative. My concern was that it was = not capitalized. >>=20 >> =C2=A76 and =C2=A77: >>=20 >> Unfortunately, RFC 3326 contains no privacy considerations at all, so = we really >> can=E2=80=99t say that this doesn=E2=80=99t change them. The = expectation for privacy >> considerations has changed since that RFC was published. I think this >> document does need to describe any privacy considerations that the >> combination of a Q.850 reason code and location might have. >=20 > [RJ] I would propose to delete then the first sentence. > Thus the considerations would state: > While the addition of the location parameter > does provide an indicator of the entity that added the location in > the signaling path this provides little more exposure than the > [Q.850] cause itself. >=20 > I could add: > When applying privacy according to RFC 3323 the location value will = not give any hint to the identity originating or terminating party of = the call. It shows only the location of the release of the call which = maybe the end device itself (location user) or any other network part. > The location is even not showing from which city or town the call is = coming from. >=20 > Would this be enough? If the call was released by the end device, does that not let people = infer information about the original callee, if that device can be = associated with the callee? >>=20 >> For example, can an intermediary learn anything about the end user = behavior >> by examining them that it couldn=E2=80=99t learn otherwise? The = answer might well be >> =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D, but the draft should explain the reasoning = behind that. >>=20 > [RJ] see above >=20 >> Similarly unfortunately, the security considerations in RFC 3326 did = not >> address ISUP interworking. Could an attacker do anything destructive = or >> useful to the attacker by monitoring or tampering with Q.850 location >> information in a SIP message? >>=20 > [RJ] I could add: > RFC3398 does an extensive security consideration due to interworking = between ISUP and SIP. Beyond this considerations the addition of the = location does not add more security concerns. > The location shows the network part where the call is released. = Knowing this does not increase the possibilities of extended fraud = scenarios. Okay. If I might suggest a bit of wordsmithing: - s/ "Beyond this considerations=E2=80=9D / "Beyond these = considerations=E2=80=9D - s/ =E2=80=9Cmore security concerns=E2=80=9D / =E2=80=9Cadditional = security concerns" [...] --Apple-Mail=_DE2DDD93-A593-44BC-A3E7-4651A898CED5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Apologies for the late response. I somehow missed seeing your = response until now. Comments inline. I removed sections that seem = resolved.

Please = submit a new revision as soon as you are ready.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:38 AM, R.Jesske@telekom.de = wrote:



[...]

*** = Substantive Comments ***

=C2=A73: =E2=80=9Cop= en to be used by any other network=E2=80=9D
That would = really mean =E2=80=9Cany other network that includes ISUP = interworking
gateways and uses Q.850 reason codes=E2=80=9D, = right?

[RJ] Yes
=C2=A74= :
- Figure 1: Is it possible the Q.850 location code list = will ever change? if so,
how will this list stay in sync? = 3326 just referenced Q.850 for the reason
codes; can this = do the same?

[RJ] PSTN is sooner or later = going in retirement.
The bit values (0000-1111) will not be extended. The naming = of  locations defined within Q.850 will from my point of view not = change. Nevertheless all values which could change have an generic = naming within the draft. Since we have discussed the same possibility = earlier, thus we have added all values from 0000 to 1111.

So an interworking can be = guaranteed in any case, even the naming of the location in PSTN may = change. 

The last try to  change any = location was around 2002 in ITU-T and that was not successful. 
The only changes appearing is = adding a cause value. The latest 3 cause values were added in 2001, 2002 = and 2018.
But changing = location names would result in PSTN with big incompatibilities where = everybody. Thus touching locations in ISUP would harm.

Okay.



- = =E2=80=9CThus other values are not within the scope of this = document.=E2=80=9D
[RJ] Yes 16 Values is the maximum number.
I=E2=80= =99m not sure what that means. Are non-listed values forbidden? = Undefined?
Are they defined in _other_ documents?
[RJ] We have interworked every possible bit value out of = Q.850 for location, there are no more left over.

IIUC, you = are saying there are no possible other values. If so, perhaps =E2=80=9CThu= s other values are out of scope...=E2=80=9D would make more sense as = =E2=80=9CThus other values are not possible=E2=80=9D?


- "Depending on the direction the UAC or UAS shall include = the location...=E2=80=9D
I=E2=80=99m not sure what that = means. Does it mean =E2=80=9CDepending on whether the
message is a request or a response=E2=80=9D?
[RJ] Yes this can be a request or an response. Do you expect = some more worde then?

I think =E2=80=9CDepending on whether the message = is a request or a response...=E2=80=9D would be more clear than = =E2=80=9CDepending on the direction..."


Also, is that = =E2=80=9Cshall=E2=80=9D intended as normative?  (I suggest it not, = since I assume
inserting the location is optional.) Would = it make sense to just say =E2=80=9C... the UAC
or UAS = includes the location...=E2=80=9D?

[RJ] Yes SHALL=3DMUST. Within = Q.850 the location is mandatory to be set when sending a cause = Value.
That is why = we put in shall. But I could life also with your proposal.

I=E2=80=99m = okay with making it normative. My concern was that it was not = capitalized.


=C2=A76 and =C2=A77:

Unfortunately, RFC 3326 contains no privacy considerations at = all, so we really
can=E2=80=99t say that this doesn=E2=80=99= t change them. The expectation for privacy
considerations = has changed since that RFC was published. I think this
document does need to describe any privacy considerations = that  the
combination of a Q.850 reason code and = location might have.

[RJ] I would propose to delete then the first = sentence.
Thus the = considerations would state:
While the addition of the location parameter
  does provide an = indicator of the entity that added the location in
  the signaling path = this provides little more exposure than the
  [Q.850] cause = itself.

I could = add:
When applying = privacy according to RFC 3323 the location value will not give any hint = to the identity originating or terminating party of the call. It shows = only the location of the release of the call which maybe the end device = itself (location user) or any other network part. 
The location is even not showing = from which city or town the call is coming from. 

Would this be enough?

If the call = was released by the end device, does that not let people infer = information about the original callee, if that device can be associated = with the callee?


For example, can an intermediary learn anything about the end = user behavior
by examining them that it couldn=E2=80=99t = learn otherwise? The answer might well be
=E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D= , but the draft should explain the reasoning behind that.

[RJ] see above

Similarly unfortunately, the security = considerations in RFC 3326 did not
address ISUP = interworking. Could an attacker do anything destructive or
useful to the attacker by monitoring or tampering with Q.850 = location
information in a SIP message?

[RJ] I could add:
RFC3398 does an extensive security consideration due to = interworking between ISUP and SIP. Beyond this considerations the = addition of the location does not add more security concerns.
The location shows the network = part where the call is released. Knowing this does not increase the = possibilities of extended fraud scenarios. 

Okay. If I = might suggest a bit of wordsmithing: 
- s/ "Beyond this = considerations=E2=80=9D / "Beyond these considerations=E2=80=9D
= - s/ =E2=80=9Cmore security concerns=E2=80=9D / =E2=80=9Cadditional = security concerns"

[...]
= --Apple-Mail=_DE2DDD93-A593-44BC-A3E7-4651A898CED5-- --Apple-Mail=_0913F1A8-0323-405C-969C-80BBC2DAC212 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlw9G2wACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A1eDg/+NaK+XXEhkDg8jx+pleUFZOwcJGGbspfMNq2BOFTR0p7CNsKFsRGa/vHd Ch+6fudn7OfxaD69wp3M+lqHZhxbEU4k6ampcD3cdMEZGtuprewZTvtrRKcesy0C baQIeqT6KsTdALQJlnkvsbM6HkLsoGMFqd07asT5KRJ/+jOOg9W6SDhJm6yx2jR4 Na10PbsFxYoJLKzzspZi4nHyfhY2QPWKj6kwIGLvBN5uLwf8GQqw8diwgBoxKUQc +Xwnh3TTuxeeRgQy8vM6HmRYET7cjFd5AX8nMYPTtOJa29ST8PqmhZLYkH/ZC7Un ms/WllKb1OrxWXh88wAumX4tDAVSHGH4lBD8pQkhz+wWRbDr5ChvBU93lCamqBwv Ahd27ISwH0z2m3iODlIIIm8rv9+mta7eK8dLtaVhH8bxEJfripzmfwE5bHiqKpQx uOQNfXCh6Uf8OKzqtS/n93o+oJB+ECSllC6jraK++/MdLUGQSNe1TDIL6z9wLmST EYb14+xO3u/1jy8Nhfz2//XktmAc7YNEup9c954qLXSKrTseaDuzkct8oZhmbVmj IEFTShsK9/tsfQgLG63pzeo+53L2Jxj5VgSz8lv+nitfEVPU/jEFZBrYYY7bf6RB OTXrdxL4VE8Hhor8NbrEKrvgwDGjXzVi47xBjJ2oFbOncL35Ls0= =IHW3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0913F1A8-0323-405C-969C-80BBC2DAC212-- From nobody Mon Jan 14 21:39:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272A3130DC8 for ; 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Tue, 15 Jan 2019 00:39:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap2 ([10.202.2.52]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 15 Jan 2019 00:39:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh=fPJ3QSamOQlXF GIsTOiNZvFGtBHJPO7kCWWnpQeDIE8=; b=fWNg5awxZXM270HBfQTvMUJNDC2hy SS6r4g+fL7pRztNReLX5QMKa+TvtisiHm7zuCgKP2GVvr8r2hZhJufbCuXBlxLzR LbpT93pfKP3iwq2jpNwilOvVdCRwCBTIHwBDWHpid8Q0LYcRxj+A5fbQdWGxQBQg beP6KmM4B/AL0ohh3RCR8UBGy8CInJ1FiKiwuJIB4riIh4FDDXI1o5a4G0KSKJEH GX8csOJrX63r9h/N2aNuK+gf+MQfjQsKzGl5tMkR6Iz45gPX74tL418pYFm2sWrM 5L/UFnIy5l3/T2sbqXzghALt6KITIPVSBHRoUqe1SuzJipCvoaWIcYqTA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:references:subject:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=fPJ3QSamOQlXFGIsTOiNZvFGtBHJPO7kCWWnpQeDIE8=; 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This isn't like giving away your name or contact information, it is= giving away a password.=20 On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, at 23:01, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Please note that RFC 3680 already says the following: >=20 > "Registration state can be sensitive information. Therefore, all > subscriptions to it SHOULD be authenticated and authorized before > approval. Authentication MAY be performed using any of the > techniques available through SIP, including digest, S/MIME, TLS or > other transport specific mechanisms [1]. Authorization policy is a= t > the discretion of the administrator, as always. However, a few > recommendations can be made. >=20 > It is RECOMMENDED that a user be allowed to subscribe to their own > registration state. Such subscriptions are useful when there are > many devices that represent a user, each of which needs to learn th= e > registration state of the other devices. We also anticipate that > applications and automata will frequently be subscribers to the > registration state. In those cases, authorization policy will > typically be provided ahead of time." >=20 > So, in addition to pointing out that the pn- information is sensitive,= =20 > and referencing the text 3680 text above, do we need to specify=20 > something NEW? >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 14/01/2019, 1.01, "sipcore on behalf of Martin Thomson"=20= > wrote: >=20 > On Sat, Jan 12, 2019, at 05:45, Roman Shpount wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 9:23 AM Christer Holmberg < > > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >=20 > > > My suggestion is to add additional text to the draft (Security= > > > Considerations) that highlights the RFC 3680 issue, and that=20= > operators that > > > deploy SIP push need to make sure the push related information= =20 > is not > > > shared with non-trusted entities. > > > > > I agree. I think listing this issue in Security Considerations=20= > should be > > sufficient. > =20 > As long as there is a "MUST" attached to that mention, I'm OK with= =20 > that outcome. > =20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > =20 >=20 > From nobody Tue Jan 15 01:49:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 123F6130DEA for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 01:49:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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[72.23.220.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c12sm65180691qka.42.2019.01.15.07.33.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Jan 2019 07:33:15 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Rosen Message-Id: <044875D5-B013-4BC9-B82D-145E54609C93@brianrosen.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_422FCD78-25D7-43C3-AAB2-3F64638BE64A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 10:33:13 -0500 In-Reply-To: <3739BDF8-2CF2-4C3D-A0DB-8F8E498CFED3@ericsson.com> Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" To: Christer Holmberg References: <3739BDF8-2CF2-4C3D-A0DB-8F8E498CFED3@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Review status X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 15:33:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_422FCD78-25D7-43C3-AAB2-3F64638BE64A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Versions are free, go ahead > On Jan 15, 2019, at 10:31 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, > =20 > The following pull request: > =20 > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31 = > =20 > =E2=80=A6should now address all gen-art/sec-dir/IESG comments, except = the following: > =20 > Indicating of multiple PNS during query mode > Editorial clarifications/re-writes requested by Ekr =E2=80=93 mostly = impacting sections 4 and 5 > =20 > The reason multiple PNS are not yet covered is because I intend to do = it as part of the editorial clarifications requested by Ekr. However, = I=E2=80=99d like to submit a new =E2=80=9Cintermediate=E2=80=9D version = of the draft before doing that. Ben? Chairs? > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Christer --Apple-Mail=_422FCD78-25D7-43C3-AAB2-3F64638BE64A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Versions are free, go ahead

On Jan = 15, 2019, at 10:31 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,
 
The = following pull request:
 
https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/31
 
=E2=80=A6should now address all gen-art/sec-dir/IESG = comments, except the following:
 
  • Indicating of = multiple PNS during query mode
  • Editorial clarifications/re-writes = requested by Ekr =E2=80=93 mostly impacting sections 4 and 5
 
The = reason multiple PNS are not yet covered is because I intend to do it as = part of the editorial clarifications requested by Ekr. However, I=E2=80=99= d like to submit a new =E2=80=9Cintermediate=E2=80=9D version of the = draft before doing that. Ben? Chairs?
 
Regards,
 
Christer

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21:50:08.1188 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 02f5b5c0-76e4-43fa-644b-08d67b336ad0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 64afd9ba-0ecf-4acf-bc36-935f6235ba8b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=64afd9ba-0ecf-4acf-bc36-935f6235ba8b; Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR0101MB2957 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sip-push Discussion Points - Adam's issue on proxies knowing what downstream proxies support X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 21:50:16 -0000 On 1/14/19 1:27 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > >>>> I have already created threads for a couple of the issues listed by Ben. > >>>> I will create separate threads for the other ones. This one covers > >>>> Adam's issue regarding proxies knowing what downstream proxies support. > >>>> > >>>> -What is it about? > >>>> > >>>> The text allows a proxy to forward a REGISTER request to another proxy, > >>>> if it "knows" that is supports a PNS supported by the UA. > >>>> > >>>> Adam asked how a proxy would know. > >>>> > >>>> -What do I think? > >>>> > >>> > The knowledge is done by operator configuration, but I agree that is not > >>> > clear in the text. > >>> > > >>> > -What do I suggest? > >>> > > >>> > Add text clarifying that the knowledge is based on operator configuration. > >>> > >>>Features that require configuration are burdensome and prone to error. A > >>>mechanism that doesn't require it is preferred. > >>> > >>>Without going into detail, ISTM that a mechanism can be devised that > >>>doesn't require this knowledge. But this first requires deciding who > >>>should choose when multiple PNSs are supported by both client and > >>>proxies/registrar. > >>> > >>>One possibility is to use one round trip to discover what PNSs are > >>>supported by proxies on the path. Then the client can choose one, > >>>initialize just *that* PNS, and then another round trip to enable that > >>>choice. > >> > >> This is basically how it already works. Note that the suggested change > >> applies to "query mode", where the UA does *not* provide a PRID, so no > >> PNS will be "enabled". > > > > Ah! I didn't catch that point. > > > >> Then, when the UA wants to enable a PNS, it sends a *single* PRID, > >> associated with the PNS it wants to use - as currently specified. > > > > OK, that seems reasonable. > > > >> Now, I have no problem with allowing multiple proxies to indicate > >> support of one or more PNSs (or a single proxy indicating support of > >> multiple PNSs) in query mode, if people think that would be useful. That > >> would mean adding one Feature-Caps header field per supported PNS. > >> > >> So, in query mode, a REGISTER 2xx response could look something like: > >> > >> Feature-Caps: +apns > >> Feature-Caps: +fcm > >> Feature-Caps: +webpush, vapid > > > > And then the UA gets to choose. Sounds good. > > > >> However, I still want to allow a proxy to send 555, if it "knows" that > >> no downstream proxy will support any of the PNSs indicated by the UA. > > > >While I have no problem with this if the proxy truly knows, I'm not > >inclined to trust a proxy's judgement on this point. It will be pretty > >tempting for implementations to simply *assume* they are the only one > >and always send the 555. Do we expect that there will be adequate > >motivation for proxies to do this right? > > I don't it will work based on the proxy's judgement - proxies will be configured whether to send 555 or not. We also say that the sending of 555 is based on local configuration. At least the ones you are affiliated with will be. I have less confidence in any others. But I'm not going to fight this. > >> The reason is to avoid the REGISTER to reach the registrar and cause a > >> registration that won't be needed (since there is no common PNS > >> supported by the UA and any of the proxies). > > > > I understand the desire to optimize here, but it is likely to be an > > almost insignificant optimization. It will save *one* registration, but > > when using PUSH there will most likely be *many* subsequent > > push-triggered registrations. Is it worth the bother and complexity? > > It is not about the number of registration messages, but the fact that in some networks each registration consumes resources. And, if no proxy supports the UA PNS, there is no reason to create a registration for that UA, since it anyway won't be able to receive incoming calls. OK, that is a more convincing argument. I will be satisfied once multiple PNSs can be handled in query mode. Thanks, Paul > And, this is not new text - the option to either forward the request or send 555 has been there all the time. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > From nobody Wed Jan 16 00:33:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E28412950A; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 00:33:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <154762758434.8042.1120210574075042259@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 00:33:04 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-22.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 08:33:04 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-22.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2019-01-16 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding-refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request that push notifications are sent to the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-22 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-22 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-22 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jan 16 00:36:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD3112950A for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 00:36:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=QDGBfMQb; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=jid/d9Ii Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 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Subject: Re: [sipcore] ***CAUTION_Invalid_Signature*** Re: AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:27:10 -0000 --_000_FRXPR01MB01358F47EDBF45A6A440EDCBF9820FRXPR01MB0135DEUP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgQmVuLA0KdGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB0aGUgcmV2aWV3IG9mIG15IGNvbW1lbnRzLg0KSSBkaWQg Y2hhbmdlIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBkdWUgdG8geW91ciBjb21tZW50cy4NCg0KV2l0aCByZWdhcmQgdG8g eW91ciBxdWVzdGlvbjoNCg0K4oCcSWYgdGhlIGNhbGwgd2FzIHJlbGVhc2VkIGJ5IHRoZSBlbmQg ZGV2aWNlLCBkb2VzIHRoYXQgbm90IGxldCBwZW9wbGUgaW5mZXIgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYWJvdXQg dGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGNhbGxlZSwgaWYgdGhhdCBkZXZpY2UgY2FuIGJlIGFzc29jaWF0ZWQgd2l0 aCB0aGUgY2FsbGVlP+KAnQ0KDQpTbyBpZiB5b3UgYXBwbHkgcHJpdmFjeSByZWdhcmRpbmcgUkZD 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draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-05.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:58:06 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : ISUP Cause Location Parameter for the SIP Reason Header Field Author : Roland Jesske Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-05.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2019-01-16 Abstract: The SIP Reason header field is defined for carrying ISDN User Part (ISUP) cause values as well as SIP response codes. Some services in SIP networks may need to know the ISUP location where the call was released in the PSTN network to correctly interpret the reason of release. This document will update [RFC3326]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR01MB5534 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Problem with pn-provider carrying multiple values X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:14:07 -0000 On 1/16/19 10:00 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > I realized that the ABNF for SIP URI parameters don’t allow a list of > values, meaning that it is not possible to have a pn-provider parameter > with a list of supported PNS. > > So, the question is whether we could live with the original restriction, > indicating a single value? A UA could always perform multiple queries, > each with a different pn-provider value, if it wants. > > Note that this does not affect proxies. They use feature-capability > indicators to indicate the supported PNSs, so a list of values is ok. > > Alternatively, we could define a sip.pns media feature tag, that a UA > can use for queries - IF we think multiple values is needed. I only see query mentioned in section 4.2, and it only discusses the UA's behavior, not proxies or the registrar. What is the proxy supposed to do with a query? I guess that if it doesn't support the PNS mentioned in the query then you would have it respond with a 555 if it knows there are no subsequent push proxies. What if it *does* support the PNS, or doesn't know if there are more push proxies? In that case, won't the registration succeed without push notification being enabled? Did you want that to happen? Perhaps it would be better to support query via OPTIONS. Then the request could go all the way to the registrar, passing any push proxies, without establishing a registration. Ideally the response would report all supported PNSs. In any case, it would be very helpful to have the document discuss the issue of clients that support multiple PNSs and how query is used for this. 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >> I realized that the ABNF for SIP URI parameters don=92t allow a list of >> values, meaning that it is not possible to have a pn-provider parameter >> with a list of supported PNS. >> >> So, the question is whether we could live with the original restriction, >> indicating a single value? A UA could always perform multiple queries, >> each with a different pn-provider value, if it wants. >> >> Note that this does not affect proxies. They use feature-capability >> indicators to indicate the supported PNSs, so a list of values is ok. >> >> Alternatively, we could define a sip.pns media feature tag, that a UA >> can use for queries - IF we think multiple values is needed. > >I only see query mentioned in section 4.2, and it only discusses the >UA's behavior, not proxies or the registrar. Query is also described for the proxy. But, it is not very clear, so I am g= oing to also place the proxy query procedures into a separate sub-section. >What is the proxy supposed to do with a query? > >I guess that if it doesn't support the PNS mentioned >in the query then you would have it respond with a 555 if it knows there >are no subsequent push proxies. Correct. >What if it *does* support the PNS, or doesn't know if there are more push = proxies? In that case, >won't the registration succeed without push notification being enabled? Di= d you >want that to happen? If it does support the PNS, it will insert a feature-cap to indicate that. = In this case it is ok if the registration succeed, as it will be used (sure= , the UA will have to send a subsequent REGISTER to actually enable push, b= ut that's ok). If the REGISTER reaches the registrar without any proxy indicating support = for the PNS, then an "unnecessary" registration will be created. That is wh= at I want to avoid - which is the reason I want to allow a proxy to send 55= 5. But, if it the registration is created, the UA will have to delete it. >Perhaps it would be better to support query via OPTIONS. Then the >request could go all the way to the registrar, passing any push proxies, >without establishing a registration. Ideally the response would report >all supported PNSs. I think that in many networks you will have to register before you send OPT= IONS. >In any case, it would be very helpful to have the document discuss the >issue of clients that support multiple PNSs and how query is used for this= . Yes. But, as I said in my initial e-mail: currently it is not possible for = a UA to indicate support for multiple PNSs, and we can't even extend the pn= -provider SIP URI parameter in order to enable that. So, my question was: can we live without the UA being able to indicate supp= ort of multiple PNSs? Regards, Christer --_000_AM4PR07MB3156ED5A8AD28D62F09F346D93820AM4PR07MB3156eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


>> I realized that the ABNF for SIP URI para= meters don=92t allow a list of
>> values, meaning that it is not possible to have a pn-provider para= meter
>> with a list of supported PNS.
>>
>> So, the question is whether we could live with the original restri= ction,
>> indicating a single value? A UA could always perform multiple quer= ies,
>> each with a different pn-provider value, if it wants.
>>
>> Note that this does not affect proxies. They use feature-capabilit= y
>> indicators to indicate the supported PNSs, so a list of values is = ok.
>>
>> Alternatively, we could define a sip.pns media feature tag, that a= UA
>> can use for queries - IF we think multiple values is needed.
>
>I only see query mentioned in section 4.2, and it only discusses the >UA's behavior, not proxies or the registrar. 

Query is also described for the proxy. But, it is = not very clear, so I am going to also place the proxy query procedures into= a separate sub-section.

>What is the proxy supposed to do with a query?=  
>
>I guess that if it doesn't support the PNS men= tioned
>in the query then you would have it respond with a 555 if it knows ther= e
>are no subsequent push proxies.

Correct.

>What if it *does* support the PNS, or doesn't = know if there are more push proxies? In that case, 
>won't the registration succeed without push no= tification being enabled? Did you
>want that to happen?

If it does support the PNS, it will insert a featu= re-cap to indicate that. In this case it is ok if the registration succeed,= as it will be used (sure, the UA will have to send a subsequent REGISTER t= o actually enable push, but that's ok).

If the REGISTER reaches the registrar without any = proxy indicating support for the PNS, then an "unnecessary" regis= tration will be created. That is what I want to avoid - which is the reason= I want to allow a proxy to send 555.
But, if it the registration is created, the UA wil= l have to delete it.
  
>Perhaps it would be better to support query vi= a OPTIONS. Then the
>request could go all the way to the registrar, passing any push proxies= ,
>without establishing a registration. Ideally the response would report =
>all supported PNSs.

I think that in many networks you will have to reg= ister before you send OPTIONS.

>In any case, it would be very helpful to have = the document discuss the
>issue of clients that support multiple PNSs and how query is used for t= his.

Yes. But, as I said in my initial e-mail: currentl= y it is not possible for a UA to indicate support for multiple PNSs, and we= can't even extend the pn-provider SIP URI parameter in order to enable tha= t.

So, my question was: can we live without the UA be= ing able to indicate support of multiple PNSs?

Regards,

Christer

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Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:57:56 -0500 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <650E240C-9F15-479C-9985-78834D078AE0@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <7b8df57a-e1c2-8e50-746c-8614f5513692@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:57:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:18.7.68.33; IPV:CAL; SCL:-1; CTRY:US; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(396003)(376002)(346002)(136003)(39860400002)(2980300002)(189003)(199004)(356004)(486006)(126002)(65806001)(47776003)(65956001)(50466002)(14444005)(6246003)(246002)(2501003)(64126003)(104016004)(23746002)(75432002)(5660300001)(65826007)(8676002)(8936002)(53546011)(336012)(106466001)(26005)(186003)(7596002)(305945005)(31686004)(4744005)(2906002)(36906005)(316002)(786003)(58126008)(11346002)(110136005)(88552002)(76176011)(106002)(478600001)(26826003)(31696002)(86362001)(230700001)(446003)(476003)(229853002)(2616005)(956004)(67846002); 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Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR01MB4023 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Problem with pn-provider carrying multiple values X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 23:58:03 -0000 On 1/16/19 5:07 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >>In any case, it would be very helpful to have the document discuss the >>issue of clients that support multiple PNSs and how query is used for this. > > Yes. But, as I said in my initial e-mail: currently it is not possible > for a UA to indicate support for multiple PNSs, and we can't even extend > the pn-provider SIP URI parameter in order to enable that. > > So, my question was: can we live without the UA being able to indicate > support of multiple PNSs? I understood your point. But a client can still *support* multiple PNSs even if it can't *indicate* such support. So I'm asking for the document to address this case, and recommend how such a client can discover which of the PNSs it supports are supported by the network and enroll with a push proxy for one - preferably its preferred one. Whether we can live without being able to indicate multiple PNSs may depend on how ugly it is to live without doing so. Thanks, Paul From nobody Thu Jan 17 02:18:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3FB128B14 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:18:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=dLWU9yl7; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=hRc0goFP Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUhFKp-c0qy5 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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b=hRc0goFPXF/XQ1W0AQLIdbdVK7fk5urVeAhcs8ucMDLco2Jg6a6cc9n1bahESU7YjdCkFh6zNwXIr6osP6gRRUGwpW68h+RSghOQX69dG3XTwDsPVnl6QyIGn2drcLxRoEci/ISZOL3JHB9susdsZo50S5ML8T3DNsZKKySczlY= Received: from VI1PR07MB3167.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.175.243.17) by VI1PR07MB3376.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.175.244.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1558.10; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:18:49 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB3167.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d993:9ec3:9533:b4b4]) by VI1PR07MB3167.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d993:9ec3:9533:b4b4%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1537.018; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:18:49 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push: Problem with pn-provider carrying multiple values Thread-Index: AQHUrawzTijUYivb1USv2bZLiAup+qWyQ+uAgAAs8JOAACJlgIAAzwAA Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:18:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <650E240C-9F15-479C-9985-78834D078AE0@ericsson.com> 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AXPdElogAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Problem with pn-provider carrying multiple values X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:18:58 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+Pj5JbiBhbnkgY2FzZSwgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgdmVyeSBoZWxwZnVsIHRvIGhhdmUg dGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGRpc2N1c3MgdGhlDQo+Pj4+aXNzdWUgb2YgY2xpZW50cyB0aGF0IHN1cHBv cnQgbXVsdGlwbGUgUE5TcyBhbmQgaG93IHF1ZXJ5IGlzIHVzZWQgZm9yIHRoaXMuDQo+Pj4gDQo+ Pj4gWWVzLiBCdXQsIGFzIEkgc2FpZCBpbiBteSBpbml0aWFsIGUtbWFpbDogY3VycmVudGx5IGl0 IGlzIG5vdCBwb3NzaWJsZSANCj4+PiBmb3IgYSBVQSB0byBpbmRpY2F0ZSBzdXBwb3J0IGZvciBt dWx0aXBsZSBQTlNzLCBhbmQgd2UgY2FuJ3QgZXZlbiBleHRlbmQgDQo+Pj4gdGhlIHBuLXByb3Zp ZGVyIFNJUCBVUkkgcGFyYW1ldGVyIGluIG9yZGVyIHRvIGVuYWJsZSB0aGF0Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBT bywgbXkgcXVlc3Rpb24gd2FzOiBjYW4gd2UgbGl2ZSB3aXRob3V0IHRoZSBVQSBiZWluZyBhYmxl 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[sipcore] SIP Push: Problem with pn-provider carrying multiple values X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:45:09 -0000 On 1/17/19 5:18 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>>> In any case, it would be very helpful to have the document discuss the >>>>> issue of clients that support multiple PNSs and how query is used for this. >>>> >>>> Yes. But, as I said in my initial e-mail: currently it is not possible >>>> for a UA to indicate support for multiple PNSs, and we can't even extend >>>> the pn-provider SIP URI parameter in order to enable that. >>> >>> So, my question was: can we live without the UA being able to indicate >>> support of multiple PNSs? >> >> I understood your point. But a client can still *support* multiple PNSs >> even if it can't *indicate* such support. So I'm asking for the document >> to address this case, and recommend how such a client can discover which >> of the PNSs it supports are supported by the network and enroll with a >> push proxy for one - preferably its preferred one. >> >> Whether we can live without being able to indicate multiple PNSs may >> depend on how ugly it is to live without doing so. > > We could e.g., allow a UA to send an "empty" pn-provider, and the network would then inform the UA about all PNSs that are supported - no matter if the UA supports them or not. > > Then the UA can choose one that it supports. WFM. 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--_000_5B483380C0AE4FB28F1D939639C4BB08ericssoncom_-- From nobody Mon Jan 21 03:14:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A16129508; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 03:14:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <154806928171.8056.16604437906150841112@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 03:14:41 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:14:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2019-01-21 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding-refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request that push notifications are sent to the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jan 21 03:23:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3DDF12DD85 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 03:23:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=etWHNYvp; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=ax4Wg1QT Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F941124D68 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 09:40:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7TzstRXfblwX for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 09:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (outgoing-alum.mit.edu [18.7.68.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 924F8124C04 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 09:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x0LHel49025946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 12:40:48 -0500 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <154806928171.8056.16604437906150841112@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 12:40:47 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <154806928171.8056.16604437906150841112@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 17:40:52 -0000 Christer, In section 5.3: 5.3. SIP URI Comparison Rules When a SIP proxy compares two SIP URIs, the proxy uses the URI comparison rules defined in [RFC3261], with the following addition: the pn-prid, pn-provider and pn-param SIP URI parameters MUST also match in order for the comparison to be successful. If only the pn- SIP URI parameters listed above match, but other parts of the compared URIs do not match, a proxy MAY still consider the comparison successful, based on local policy. This can occur in a race condition, if a UA modified some parts of the Contact URI in the most recent REGISTER request, but the Request-URI of a SIP request addressed towards the UA still contains the old parts. I *presume* you only intend these extended matching rules to be applied in certain contexts. But you don't say anything about that. Someone might read this as applying to all the places in 3261 where matching is used. Please add a few more words clarifying those circumstances when these extended matching rules apply. Thanks, Paul From nobody Mon Jan 21 11:22:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 917D0126BED for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:22:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.843 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.843 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=Tyb3blga; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=gnB2Yt5d Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L44doeYnpuwp for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8C7F130F0F for ; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul, Please see inline. >In section 5.3: > > 5.3. SIP URI Comparison Rules > > When a SIP proxy compares two SIP URIs, the proxy uses the URI > comparison rules defined in [RFC3261], with the following addition: > the pn-prid, pn-provider and pn-param SIP URI parameters MUST also > match in order for the comparison to be successful. > > If only the pn- SIP URI parameters listed above match, but other > parts of the compared URIs do not match, a proxy MAY still consider > the comparison successful, based on local policy. This can occur in > a race condition, if a UA modified some parts of the Contact URI in > the most recent REGISTER request, but the Request-URI of a SIP > request addressed towards the UA still contains the old parts. > > I *presume* you only intend these extended matching rules to be applied > in certain contexts. But you don't say anything about that. Someone > might read this as applying to all the places in 3261 where matching is > used. Good point. I do refer to the URI comparison section in the procedure secti= ons, but it would be good to add a few words in the URI comparison section = itself. > Please add a few more words clarifying those circumstances when these > extended matching rules apply. What about modifying the 1st paragraph in the following way: "As described in the SIP proxy procedures in this specification, there are = cases where the proxy will compare the Contact header field URI of a 2xx re= sponse to a REGISTER request with the Request-URI of the SIP requests in th= e SIP Request Push Queue (Section 5.2). In those cases, when the proxy comp= ares two SIP URIs, the proxy uses the URI comparison rules defined in [RFC3261], with the following addition: the pn-= prid, pn-provider and pn-param SIP URI parameters MUST also match in order = for the comparison to be successful." Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB31616F291AC0AACF23178503939F0HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Paul,


Please see inline.

 

 >In section 5.3:
 >
 >   5.3.  SIP URI Comparison Rules
 >
 >   When a SIP proxy compares two SIP URIs, the proxy uses th= e URI
 >   comparison rules defined in [RFC3261], with the following= addition:
 >   the pn-prid, pn-provider and pn-param SIP URI parameters = MUST also
 >   match in order for the comparison to be successful.
 >
 >   If only the pn- SIP URI parameters listed above match, bu= t other
 >   parts of the compared URIs do not match, a proxy MAY stil= l consider
 >   the comparison successful, based on local policy.  T= his can occur in
 >   a race condition, if a UA modified some parts of the Cont= act URI in
 >   the most recent REGISTER request, but the Request-URI of = a SIP
 >   request addressed towards the UA still contains the old p= arts.
 >
 > I *presume* you only intend these extended matching rules to be = applied
 > in certain contexts. But you don't say anything about that. Some= one
 > might read this as applying to all the places in 3261 where matc= hing is
 > used.

Good point. I do refer to the URI comparison secti= on in the procedure sections, but it would be good to add a few words in th= e URI comparison section itself.

 > Please add a few more words clarifying = those circumstances when these
> extended matching rules apply.

What about modifying the 1st paragraph in the foll= owing way:

"As described in the SIP proxy procedures in = this specification, there are cases where the proxy will compare the Contac= t header field URI of a 2xx response to a REGISTER request with the Request= -URI of the SIP requests in the SIP Request Push Queue (Section 5.2). In those cases, when the proxy compares two SIP URIs, the proxy uses the URI
comparison rules defined in [RFC3261], with the following addition: the pn-prid, pn-provider and pn-param SIP URI parameters MUST also match in order for the comparison to be successful."

Regards,

Christer
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Jan 2019 08:27:06 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23.txt Thread-Index: AQHUsbCBteY5vTEiwUyuROIH/QBUlaW6FbkzgAEA8IA= Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:27:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154806928171.8056.16604437906150841112@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.14.0.181208 x-originating-ip: [89.166.49.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB3228; 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Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <154816052662.22641.14331029764838497252@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 04:35:26 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-24.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 12:35:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-24.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2019-01-22 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding-refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request that push notifications are sent to the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-24 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-24 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-24 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jan 22 04:38:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E80130F4F for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 04:38:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=deyL9d2f; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=TxkESzqi Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] SIP Push: Generic pull request for possible issues in re-written draft X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 13:24:00 -0000 --_000_38FA46572A5841048C9E544B91B83406ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNCkkgcmVhbGl6ZWQgdGhlcmUgd2VyZSBhIGZldyBwbGFjZXMgd2hlcmUgSSBoYWQgbm90 IGludHJvZHVjZWQgdGhlIG5ldyBTSVAgUmVxdWVzdCBQdXNoIFF1ZXVlIHRlcm1pbm9sb2d5LCBz byBJIGNyZWF0ZWQgYSBwdWxsIHJlcXVlc3QgZm9yIHRoYXQuDQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHViLmNv bS9jZGg0dS9kcmFmdC1zaXAtcHVzaC9wdWxsLzM1DQoNCkkgaW50ZW5kIHRvIHVzZSB0aGUgcHVs bCByZXF1ZXN0IG9wZW4gYXMgbG9uZyBhcyB3ZSBsb29rIGF0IHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBpbiB0aGUg V0csIGlmIHBlb3BsZSBmaW5kIG90aGVyIGlzc3Vlcy4NCg0KU28sIGlmIHlvdSBmaW5kIHNvbWUg 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d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=71ldPrYUfrPavnBChPlWTzbEZTf5Rq6kPg348FLSsck=; b=DoaZl3zO3Hzy/4soa/jItkZLgiiYAe7Iod3glXgJSK+a0WG22OqD3CaxKDD+X5FITU n+jDKvxeUCPzWmogpCjLSPu/pb4K/Aa22iuMMM3srLJVVCd8gprI6nRVHR1Wp+ilo7ge +MkFIxSAwBLy1IElpgDcP6b0yDpj6ITmfMQJQjK8/hoFxaogMiATMW/9x6BEShHh9kDc U9UnYTlngzxiJkwF1jTBGc+6Jq7Q5AoX5x5618GGLnnca3MXnv13/P6m2UcnbuF2yHED z61H98cT3eAia4g0hhGLNOwVLVyQ5qoYTASey0cga0BWQ7fJc1TVwXLmNcg0rfYuMj1j k5Bg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=71ldPrYUfrPavnBChPlWTzbEZTf5Rq6kPg348FLSsck=; b=JqsqBKDHZFK89BgAvb1oGF1LuiHndG0/KSqez4aWNvYJVW/ev3Pbx1cgGdiQWI+bVu JPJCQZBGYo2d17yUUa3TYIBJx325B9MLzyU9ZzLqgFOcJ38seYZ/VltZ3DjH4df9APdE NY/wlzr7jOGe+y6og0sBnA5tyN6JrvSZ5uZUgFQYnvmwWsv8CunLoraQsmmgCMeEfXOi vcnXPiHDeixYKZBWWIVfHN8tHYPpNuR7mk+RAIPncVMyBJ3fHA/s9l197SYA97UqJMuL 2nkP9mycPQ+cm4OXssBTTVPmadSTHdWmSl2tCp+O3wJ2inxbIB+fQsI3KO7R6SoGxjA/ Q4sQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukd5X7mTUv7N0SYEhVVpYjhdriEIwdzv1uFPxKMijQtDrKRFzrab iFtw2VDPTwVfNMT2s04Ln7dhjABuyRdNi+KRYXD0CA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5wMHt0gvs+BSp7jZVr1UEOkUFu8oHBZ6tDyipyDE11B1zyF+Cm5UV6t2o6nMeBjwzN4D+tCsgstalMmGhxus8= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4ed9:: with SMTP id u86mr13134281lfk.78.1548561911457; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 20:05:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5B483380-C0AE-4FB2-8F1D-939639C4BB08@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <5B483380-C0AE-4FB2-8F1D-939639C4BB08@ericsson.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 20:04:30 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell , "adam@nostrum.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a53f52058068aa3b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: UA/Proxy procedure re-write pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 04:05:17 -0000 --000000000000a53f52058068aa3b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is too big for me to plausibly review as a PR. Happy to review a new draft. With that said, it seems clear to me that the technical changes requiree WG consent. -Ekr On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 7:05 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > Below is the link to the pull request with the suggested changes to the U= A > and Proxy procedures in the SIP push draft. > > > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/32 > > > > The re-write is based on Ekr=E2=80=99s IESG review comment that we need s= ome > re-writes, to make procedures more clear. When I stared doing them, I fou= nd > text and sections myself that I think can be clarified. > > > > Note that there are also some technical changes, mostly related to the > syntax of some parameters. For example, the draft allows pn-provider > without a value. Also, any Feature-Caps header field can only contain one > sip.pns feature-capability indicator, and any feature-capability indicato= r > indicating support of an extension (e.g., VAPID) associated with the PNS > indicated by sip.pns must be in the same Feature-Capability header field = =E2=80=93 > in order to inform which PNS an extension is associated with. > > > > So, as you will see (don=E2=80=99t worry if the pull requests looks messy= =E2=80=93 I > intend to submit a new version of the draft) there are quite many changes= . > > > > I will leave it up to the chairs to decide whether we need a new WGLC, bu= t > once I=E2=80=99ve submitted a new version I at least would like people to= take a > good look. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > --000000000000a53f52058068aa3b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is too big for me to plausibly review as a PR. H= appy to review a new draft.

With that said, it see= ms clear to me that the technical changes requiree WG consent.
-Ekr


=
On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 7:05 AM Chris= ter Holmberg <christer= .holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0<= /span>

Below = is the link to the pull request with the suggested changes to the UA and Pr= oxy procedures in the SIP push draft.

=C2=A0

htt= ps://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/32

=C2=A0

The re= -write is based on Ekr=E2=80=99s IESG review comment that we need some re-w= rites, to make procedures more clear. When I stared doing them, I found tex= t and sections myself that I think can be clarified.

=C2=A0

Note t= hat there are also some technical changes, mostly related to the syntax of = some parameters. For example, the draft allows pn-provider without a value.= Also, any Feature-Caps header field can only contain one sip.pns feature-capability indicator, and any feature= -capability indicator indicating support of an extension (e.g., VAPID) asso= ciated with the PNS indicated by sip.pns must be in the same Feature-Capabi= lity header field =E2=80=93 in order to inform which PNS an extension is associated with.

=C2=A0

So, as= you will see (don=E2=80=99t worry if the pull requests looks messy =E2=80= =93 I intend to submit a new version of the draft) there are quite many cha= nges.

=C2=A0

I will= leave it up to the chairs to decide whether we need a new WGLC, but once I= =E2=80=99ve submitted a new version I at least would like people to take a = good look.

=C2=A0

Regard= s,

=C2=A0

Christ= er

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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ekr, Note that the PR has been merged, and a new version of the draft has been s= ubmitted, so the latest version of the draft contains the changes. Regards, Christer ________________________________ From: Eric Rescorla Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 6:04 AM To: Christer Holmberg Cc: sipcore@ietf.org; sipcore-chairs@ietf.org; Ben Campbell; adam@nostrum.c= om Subject: Re: SIP Push: UA/Proxy procedure re-write pull request This is too big for me to plausibly review as a PR. Happy to review a new d= raft. With that said, it seems clear to me that the technical changes requiree WG= consent. -Ekr On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 7:05 AM Christer Holmberg > wrote: Hi, Below is the link to the pull request with the suggested changes to the UA = and Proxy procedures in the SIP push draft. https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/32 The re-write is based on Ekr=92s IESG review comment that we need some re-w= rites, to make procedures more clear. When I stared doing them, I found tex= t and sections myself that I think can be clarified. Note that there are also some technical changes, mostly related to the synt= ax of some parameters. For example, the draft allows pn-provider without a = value. Also, any Feature-Caps header field can only contain one sip.pns fea= ture-capability indicator, and any feature-capability indicator indicating = support of an extension (e.g., VAPID) associated with the PNS indicated by = sip.pns must be in the same Feature-Capability header field =96 in order to= inform which PNS an extension is associated with. So, as you will see (don=92t worry if the pull requests looks messy =96 I i= ntend to submit a new version of the draft) there are quite many changes. I will leave it up to the chairs to decide whether we need a new WGLC, but = once I=92ve submitted a new version I at least would like people to take a = good look. Regards, Christer --_000_HE1PR07MB3161F0BD61C949336172EBF693950HE1PR07MB3161eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ekr,


Note that the PR has been merged,= and a new version of the draft has been submitted, so the latest version o= f the draft contains the changes.


Regards,


Christer



From: Eric Rescorla <ekr= @rtfm.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 6:04 AM
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: sipcore@ietf.org; sipcore-chairs@ietf.org; Ben Campbell; adam@no= strum.com
Subject: Re: SIP Push: UA/Proxy procedure re-write pull request
 
This is too big for me to plausibly review as a PR. Happy to review a = new draft.

With that said, it seems clear to me that the technical changes requir= ee WG consent.

-Ekr


On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 7:05 AM Chr= ister Holmberg <christer.holmber= g@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

 

Belo= w is the link to the pull request with the suggested changes to the UA and = Proxy procedures in the SIP push draft.

<= /u> 

https://git= hub.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/32

<= /u> 

The = re-write is based on Ekr=92s IESG review comment that we need some re-write= s, to make procedures more clear. When I stared doing them, I found text an= d sections myself that I think can be clarified.

<= /u> 

Note= that there are also some technical changes, mostly related to the syntax o= f some parameters. For example, the draft allows pn-provider without a valu= e. Also, any Feature-Caps header field can only contain one sip.pns feature-capability indicator, and any feature= -capability indicator indicating support of an extension (e.g., VAPID) asso= ciated with the PNS indicated by sip.pns must be in the same Feature-Capabi= lity header field =96 in order to inform which PNS an extension is associated with.

<= /u> 

So, = as you will see (don=92t worry if the pull requests looks messy =96 I inten= d to submit a new version of the draft) there are quite many changes.

<= /u> 

I wi= ll leave it up to the chairs to decide whether we need a new WGLC, but once= I=92ve submitted a new version I at least would like people to take a good= look.

<= /u> 

Rega= rds,

<= /u> 

Chri= ster

--_000_HE1PR07MB3161F0BD61C949336172EBF693950HE1PR07MB3161eurp_-- From nobody Mon Jan 28 07:14:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6711200D7 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:14:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QbtMcZkZ9sDZ for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C253129A87 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mutabilis-2.local ([47.186.39.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x0SFE4at069670 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:14:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mahoney@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1548688445; bh=PLrdpRq3/poaT+Yj2nzU6LWHPe2Pk2ZweeUfrjzbyLM=; h=To:From:Subject:Date; b=uXhwSE0dHs9bKzWJjLasGp28kdn7pzHP1eEatT7nzYJIXzUuCL9qBMXPiYJOxOlRn TmKpq8MuGOiqC0M8576EWoaoOpXtWE+q3+lEEbEP28hT+FE25oTpioQH3sBsuyg5m8 nATGZUqzjNtccrcalNDDBAxcsUkCEp755x0r7+uk= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.39.7] claimed to be mutabilis-2.local To: SIPCORE From: "A. Jean Mahoney" Message-ID: <4fbd3fa5-a232-6df8-3eae-e3be1a4fd17d@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:14:04 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] WG Session in Prague? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 15:14:08 -0000 Hi all, The deadline for requesting WG sessions for IETF 104 is Friday, Feb 8th [1]. Please let the chairs know before then if you have a topic you want to present. Thanks! Jean [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/important-dates/ From nobody Mon Jan 28 07:59:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623BD130E8D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:59:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IhexDbztUIN5 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (outgoing-alum.mit.edu [18.7.68.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88A92130E89 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x0SFxmO0018077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:59:49 -0500 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <154806928171.8056.16604437906150841112@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <6cd24024-5a39-52a7-f411-d378ee5eb4d9@alum.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:59:48 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 15:59:54 -0000 On 1/22/19 3:27 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > I was taking a second look in RFC 3261, and the text already says: > > “o  URI uri-parameter components are compared as follows: > >          -  Any uri-parameter appearing in both URIs must match.” > > So, in my opinion that means that 3261 already covers the pn- > parameters, and the only thing we need to do in draft-sip-push is to > point that out. > > However, draft-sip-push also allows a partial match, and that needs to > be normative. > > So, perhaps something like: > >    “When a SIP proxy compares two SIP URIs, the proxy uses the URI > >    comparison rules defined in [RFC3261], meaning that in order > >    for a comparison to be successful the pn-prid, pn-provider and > >    pn-param SIP URI parameters must also match.” > > So, a proxy will always use these rules when comparing SIP URIs, not > only when comparing a Contact URI with a Request-URI. > > Pull request with suggested modficiation: > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/34 I reviewed this change in -24. It resolves my concern. 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Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:02:30 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ec90:1d14:9549:fdf0]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ec90:1d14:9549:fdf0%4]) with mapi id 15.20.1580.014; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:02:30 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-23.txt Thread-Index: AQHUsbCBteY5vTEiwUyuROIH/QBUlaW6FbkzgAEA8ICACcrzAIAAIkeA Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:02:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154806928171.8056.16604437906150841112@ietfa.amsl.com> <6cd24024-5a39-52a7-f411-d378ee5eb4d9@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <6cd24024-5a39-52a7-f411-d378ee5eb4d9@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.14.0.181208 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [89.166.49.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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Tue, 29 Jan 2019 00:35:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38FA4657-2A58-4104-8C9E-544B91B83406@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <38FA4657-2A58-4104-8C9E-544B91B83406@ericsson.com> From: Yehoshua Gev Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:34:47 +0200 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004a6297058094ab75" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Generic pull request for possible issues in re-written draft X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 08:35:10 -0000 --0000000000004a6297058094ab75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Christer. Sorry for the late review. Typos and grammar errors (some found manually and some by a spell checker): - Abstract: "to receive receive incoming SIP requests" => " to receive incoming SIP requests" - Section 4.1.1: "URI parameter parameter indicates" => "URI parameter indicates" "with a indicator" => "with an indicator" "if the samd Feature-Caps header" => "if the same Feature-Caps header". - Section 4.1.2: "include the pn-pric SIP URI parameter" => "include the pn-prid SIP URI parameter" - Section 5.6.1: "skip the procdures" => "skip the procedures" - Section 5.6.1.1: "the type of of PNS" => "the type of PNS" (and some more "of of" occurrences) "if the the binding" => "if the binding" (and some more "the the" occurrences) - Section 5.6.1.2: "proxies betwen the proxy" => "proxies between the proxy" "mechanism for thoses PNSs" => "mechanism for those PNSs" - Section 5.6.2: "receives a SIP request does not contain" => "receives a SIP request that does not contain" - Section 6.1.1: "UA has not recived" => "UA has not received" - Section 13: "event package for registations" => "event package for registrations" On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:24 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > I realized there were a few places where I had not introduced the new SIP > Request Push Queue terminology, so I created a pull request for that. > > > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/35 > > > > I intend to use the pull request open as long as we look at the document > in the WG, if people find other issues. > > > > So, if you find some issues, feel free to see whether it is already > covered in the pull request. Also feel free to make your own commits and/or > pull requests. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > --0000000000004a6297058094ab75 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=C2=A0Christer.

Sorry for = the late review.
Typos and grammar errors (some found manually and som= e by a spell checker):

- Abstract:
=C2=A0 "to re= ceive receive incoming SIP=C2=A0requests" =3D> " to receive incoming SIP=C2=A0requests"

- Section 4.1.1:<= /div>
=C2=A0"= URI parameter parameter=C2=A0indicates" =3D> "URI parameter=C2=A0indicates"
=C2=A0&qu= ot;with a indicator&qu= ot; =3D> "with an indicator"
=C2=A0"if the samd Feature-Caps header" =3D= > "if t= he same Feature-Caps header".

- Section 4.1.2:
=C2=A0"include the pn-pric SIP URI = parameter" =3D> "include the pn-prid SIP URI parameter"

- Section 5.6.1:
=C2=A0&qu= ot;skip the pro= cdures" =3D> "skip the procedures"

- Section 5.6.1.1:
=C2=A0"t= he type of of PNS" =3D> "the type of PNS" (and some more = "of of" occurrences)
=C2=A0"if the the binding" = =3D> "if the binding" (and some more "the the" occurrences)

- Section 5.6.1.2:=
=C2=A0"proxies betwen the proxy" =3D> "proxies betwee= n the proxy"
=C2=A0"mechanism for thoses PNSs" =3D> = "mechanism for those PNSs"

- Sectio= n 5.6.2:
=C2=A0"receives a SIP request does not contain" =3D> "receives a SIP reques= t that does not contain"

- Section 6.1.1:
=C2=A0&quo= t;UA has not recived" =3D> "UA has not received"

- Section 13:
=C2=A0"event package for registati= ons" =3D> "event package for registrations"

<= /span>

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 3:24 PM Chri= ster Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0<= /span>

I real= ized there were a few places where I had not introduced the new SIP Request= Push Queue terminology, so I created a pull request for that.

=C2=A0

htt= ps://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/35

=C2=A0

I inte= nd to use the pull request open as long as we look at the document in the W= G, if people find other issues.

=C2=A0

So, if= you find some issues, feel free to see whether it is already covered in th= e pull request. Also feel free to make your own commits and/or pull request= s.

=C2=A0

Regard= s,

=C2=A0

Christ= er

_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
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[72.23.220.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l33sm95035403qta.57.2019.01.29.11.23.12 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Jan 2019 11:23:12 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Rosen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BF91D9EE-C3CE-47CD-A94A-DD53B0D663F6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Message-Id: <153934B6-87FF-4BDE-88AB-2E30E3978680@brianrosen.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 14:23:11 -0500 To: SIPCORE X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Short WGLC on SIP Push X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 19:23:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BF91D9EE-C3CE-47CD-A94A-DD53B0D663F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As many substantive changes to SIP Push have been made, chairs have = decided to rerun last call, but on a quick cycle. This email starts a one week Working Group Last Call on = draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push Please send comments to the list. Statements from reviewers that their = comments have been satisfactorily addressed would be helpful. --Apple-Mail=_BF91D9EE-C3CE-47CD-A94A-DD53B0D663F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii As = many substantive changes to SIP Push have been made, chairs have decided = to rerun last call, but on a quick cycle.

This email starts a one week Working = Group Last Call on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push

Please send comments to the list. =  Statements from reviewers that their comments have been = satisfactorily addressed would be = helpful.


= --Apple-Mail=_BF91D9EE-C3CE-47CD-A94A-DD53B0D663F6-- From nobody Tue Jan 29 16:10:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C6B130EEC for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:10:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lLM5M-sqUvdI for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 299A5130EE0 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.29] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x0U0AWj7012449 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:10:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1548807037; bh=jvOSL+6ldnLy6mYS2H+htcWYV9JUHHUasezIrCj4ki4=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=Y61K7Pi18TzqROl3RMaSKmQA9KlYv0dX6cFAGy3R748GzP1TdRLBG6i2AR4yWwt6t aqrcm9sCXeUW26+1fDakDfaDG5SwwhrFXRKQSrmes9IO8SXkFhoD7EHnJ8uUpjVKpE kJsu0wzBoSM1OdJtN/B23UBSNbudbxyVW3nh9Kxw= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.29] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_50F76277-BAA7-4AB6-8BAC-B608211B6F97"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:10:30 -0600 In-Reply-To: <153934B6-87FF-4BDE-88AB-2E30E3978680@brianrosen.net> To: SIPCORE , Christer Holmberg References: <153934B6-87FF-4BDE-88AB-2E30E3978680@brianrosen.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Short WGLC on SIP Push X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:10:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_50F76277-BAA7-4AB6-8BAC-B608211B6F97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 (As individual) Hi, I have reviewed version 24. I mainly reviewed the diff from version 21. = For the most part, I am only making substantive comments in this email. = However, I think that the new text needs more wordsmithing and = proofreading. =C2=A74.1.2: In the case where the UA cannot remove its registration, I = assume this is all soft-state and will get cleaned up when the bindings = expire. If correct, it would be worth mentioning that here. I agree the = UA needs to remove the binding if it can =C2=A75.2: Is this really a queue in the formal sense? That is, a given = queued request doesn=E2=80=99t have to wait for other requests that are = ahead in the queue, does it? =C2=A75.3: I think this section needs to be careful about URI matching for the = purposes of generating a push request, and URI matching for the purposes = of message routing. The 3261 URI comparison rules say that a parameter that exists in one = URI but not the other is ignored. That means a URI with the push-related = parameters will match one without them. Is that the intent? For example, = is an inbound request that has a request-URI that matches the registered = contact for the push-enabled UA but does not have the push parameters = expected to trigger a push request? In the second paragraph, do I understand that we are saying that a URI = that would not have matched if we weren=E2=80=99t using the PNS will now = suddenly match for purposes of routing the request to the UA? What do we = expect the UAS to do with a request that doesn=E2=80=99t match any of = its bindings? Is it also allowed to match just on the push parameters? = (I wonder if there are subtle security considerations here.) That same race condition can occur in non-push networks, where a UAS = changes a binding between the time a UAC sends an request and the time = that request reaches the responsible proxy. We don=E2=80=99t expect that = to work. Why do we expect this to be different for push-enabled = networks? Is it because the window for the race condition is larger? = (It can=E2=80=99t be _much_ longer, or the user experience will be = pretty bad.) =C2=A75.6.2: - =E2=80=9CThe proxy checks whether the SIP Request Push queue contains = a SIP request associated with the REGISTER transaction=E2=80=9D: Please = be precise about what =E2=80=9Cassociated=E2=80=9D means in this = context. I initially assumed it meant =E2=80=9Chas an R-URI that matches = one of the contacts in the REGISTER request=E2=80=9D, but the following = step checks for that. - In the paragraph about what happens if the push-triggered REGISTER = does not show up in time, it=E2=80=99s not clear which transaction timer = is being discussed. I think this means some special push-specific timer = set by the proxy, not the UAC's normal SIP transaction timers? (If we = are talking about the UAC=E2=80=99s timer, then it seems tardy for the = proxy to send an error _after_ the UAC=E2=80=99s timer has expired.) If = so, then some text mentioning the proxy needs to keep such timers in the = first place would be helpful. - " If the proxy is able to authorize the sender of the REGISTER=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=9D Does this mean =E2=80=9Cauthenticate=E2=80=9D? If you really mean = =E2=80=9Cauthorize=E2=80=9D, then =E2=80=9Cis able to=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80= =99t seem to make sense. Maybe =E2=80=9CIf the proxy is responsible for = authorizing=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D? =C2=A76.2.3: Do I understand correctly that a mid-dialog request with an = incorrect R-URI will still work if the PURR matches? What do we expect = the UAS to do with a mid-dialog request with an incorrect r-uri? =C2=A713: - I suggest removing the language suggesting that malicious = push-notifications have no security-related impacts.Running down = batteries and triggering extra messaging can have their own = security-related impacts. - TLS doesn=E2=80=99t, by itself, secure the network from malicious = _endpoints_, if you mean endpoint in the sense of a SIP UA. That = requires authentication and authorization of the UA, which TLS does not = do unless you want to require mutual-authentication. I suspect you = meant to talk about attacks from other parties? Thanks! Ben. > On Jan 29, 2019, at 1:23 PM, Brian Rosen wrote: >=20 > As many substantive changes to SIP Push have been made, chairs have = decided to rerun last call, but on a quick cycle. >=20 > This email starts a one week Working Group Last Call on = draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push >=20 > Please send comments to the list. Statements from reviewers that = their comments have been satisfactorily addressed would be helpful. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore --Apple-Mail=_50F76277-BAA7-4AB6-8BAC-B608211B6F97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlxQ63YACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A0odA/8DXHr63JP2fOJ9pWklMqEljPcfMio/h7Zl03TWyIhMYGtK3QuA+m8iiwb rOLAaG5VyGhNQyUnd90sX8spF01Fv+jQE0PT9ty5yhSl0xaTbXVXALSdxf4UWmxV fpH7WT7xVZ9IB7Sfcml92Lv3P/R+v+hkGQTNVJQvGmqINjhCekgW6G7z/DOfK+iw mAT0AcvCoH1v6SVqkDNvGx7Z+rd78S3J7N1SakloREiSyINzYnCeXOkNCU5BUOay t88v3lD1H5qSfy0QZ2wbQbbOGKYjLlhnbFtxl/v5SWSXuBbOwTXe61hpCstXLTHH MV9ISo0hKcmo3iERnfShaI4yQjS6zte8q2wobgVPCUEoV0x6x5NSHTwSOpvxuAhb GSkM9Z1I0SLs5GdZURC7QZuKuHvKZLhIf0med7xgcGW+frwa9gUBN9xEdMsPU1hL qH7M7NEFj9cWUZvxB4ksVE7xvoHCxq6D8ezwc/o+aXrDPsfVeSyOlxjG1W/9zXuT IFFass0hMb5B0Q/cRTydsTQNC+qqKWBUa8Jl+Tg6uYF73KHNBsOCscy/mD6skvEn qNGcjuA0n/1fG0QVmnmSpvXnjlA0MJhE6ENADoL6h76JWANe8g6WN0oAIxglVnFv tQJ8Knv1ymKcPMBDfm4xPplyk4ov65voUl2ftWdD3bBfnXGTU6I= =Lhpd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_50F76277-BAA7-4AB6-8BAC-B608211B6F97-- From nobody Wed Jan 30 07:54:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF901130F6A for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 07:54:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, 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cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.29] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CD414C03-A1FC-4654-BDF1-2BC4E889D73C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 17:02:31 -0600 In-Reply-To: <39984F53-5EA4-475C-B060-C2E16CF37FB3@nostrum.com> Cc: sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc.all@ietf.org To: "" References: <34AC90DD-12D6-4F34-B2A0-A1BB4D66A701@nostrum.com> <39984F53-5EA4-475C-B060-C2E16CF37FB3@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:02:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CD414C03-A1FC-4654-BDF1-2BC4E889D73C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Roland, I think this version is ready for IETF Last Call. I will request that = shortly. I still have some minor editorial comments below. These can be addressed = along with any IETF LC feedback. Thanks! Ben. > On Jan 14, 2019, at 5:29 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > Apologies for the late response. I somehow missed seeing your response = until now. Comments inline. I removed sections that seem resolved. >=20 > Please submit a new revision as soon as you are ready. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. >=20 >> On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:38 AM, R.Jesske@telekom.de wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >=20 > [...] >=20 >>> *** Substantive Comments *** >>>=20 >>> =C2=A73: =E2=80=9Copen to be used by any other network=E2=80=9D >>> That would really mean =E2=80=9Cany other network that includes ISUP = interworking >>> gateways and uses Q.850 reason codes=E2=80=9D, right? >>>=20 >> [RJ] Yes I think it would be worth mentioning that in the draft. [=E2=80=A6] >=20 >>>=20 >>> =C2=A76 and =C2=A77: >>>=20 >>> Unfortunately, RFC 3326 contains no privacy considerations at all, = so we really >>> can=E2=80=99t say that this doesn=E2=80=99t change them. The = expectation for privacy >>> considerations has changed since that RFC was published. I think = this >>> document does need to describe any privacy considerations that the >>> combination of a Q.850 reason code and location might have. >>=20 >> [RJ] I would propose to delete then the first sentence. >> Thus the considerations would state: >> While the addition of the location parameter >> does provide an indicator of the entity that added the location in >> the signaling path this provides little more exposure than the >> [Q.850] cause itself. >>=20 >> I could add: >> When applying privacy according to RFC 3323 the location value will = not give any hint to the identity originating or terminating party of = the call. It shows only the location of the release of the call which = maybe the end device itself (location user) or any other network part. >> The location is even not showing from which city or town the call is = coming from. >>=20 >> Would this be enough? >=20 > If the call was released by the end device, does that not let people = infer information about the original callee, if that device can be = associated with the callee? I think we=E2=80=99ve resolved that part, but looking at the new = language: "When applying privacy according to [RFC3323] the location value will = not give any hint to the identity originating or terminating party of = the call. It shows only the location of the release of the call which = maybe the end device itself (location user) or any other network part. = The location is even not showing from which city or town the call is = coming from." I think readers will still get confused by the use of =E2=80=9Clocation=E2= =80=9D to describe something that=E2=80=99s not a =E2=80=9Cphysical=E2=80=9D= location. I think it would help in this sentence to clarify that we are = talking about =E2=80=9CISUP location=E2=80=9D. Also, the is the use of = RFC 3323 really relevant? That is, I don=E2=80=99t think the ISUP = location reveals the identity one way or another, right? It=E2=80=99s = not up to this draft to worry about whether some other part of the SIP = message does. Finally, there are some minor grammar issues. I propose the following = simplification: =E2=80=9CThe ISUP location value itself will not reveal the identity of = the originating or terminating party of the call. It shows only the = ISUP network location of the device that released the call. The ISUP = location does not show show the physical location of the caller or = callee.=E2=80=9D (Nit) =C2=A77, new text: I propose the following edit: OLD: "[RFC3398] does an extensive security consideration due to interworking between ISUP and SIP.=E2=80=9D NEW: "[RFC3398] describes detailed security consideration due to interworking between ISUP and SIP." --Apple-Mail=_CD414C03-A1FC-4654-BDF1-2BC4E889D73C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlxSLQcACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A18nQ/8DCYdmPYnkR3pnxVPHOtlYamNbLxJkdXW+NfHOQBoIM+dNCD48rEVUSCE 3CFXA0t++MTcjjdcIg9/76qu3QL49f+ngAgK1xL/ez1vmRqeX7ly+46cOiLVreCl iqsMFU3GEJWZ6tcF2BCggHyzWbv5lSfO1Znu7GQTPf8wEcVglbvzNbY2ErEqFqII ym+pHCxWCky0YaYiSexCAQXOWcQKWor2QXc/P/M3ezCJPr3s59yKQoj9PJGevD3V gAGp/U7Jwj6k9rCQqwVi2XmbnOg7q2/Be0ios62NxIzOySXZvjeMeBepZ65zSdcj vNhSrTuoE/wE7Aw/fZRRiu++7Prv7qkF1KUaDvMsJl/Lhh/l5mYay0PXxeiwW4uQ KJIqryWnuc46IMm0L7Mz0XZhAfON3jRiGKQiaKlgw0HYGmFGXeXlFiEbtcW8aJFz yyakfy37lOheiV14ntGCfRM2mBybcmAlHcXIGmDFWmwBuigFOxGg/HVlRTComODu 1qDIJ87rws4PNudlUnwwu/TYeQGwmY2R98nIRQS/K2VH4veTDXQxorujPMMhSmKz 9gkEBtK2LiBiUkHYrEXKyfYee1Kc9x0XpA0gmFfhXmBKoFD8IVXidtyeVacBhpg5 R6Soue6rosUJDir0LyLcRxhlXC0Mev94/MU6jaTN5ithb0BzKhk= =+lzs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_CD414C03-A1FC-4654-BDF1-2BC4E889D73C-- From nobody Wed Jan 30 15:07:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9940130EBD; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 15:07:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8ujvemtovoVa; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 15:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F1F3130DE3; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 15:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.29] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x0UN7jK9040398 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 30 Jan 2019 17:07:47 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1548889669; bh=qS/PG7ZfmUV77/HL4Cu+5BddL9IEEFnxiiQeE705SaQ=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=gNVetbgBxyh3xdV4I+X3lUc/Bt92ZakpWmSiX4rLr8UPFQfADIOV2GCUZbBR5dHk8 SM+iBkkLbU2+bOAcklEL3bll2kUTKwRzFM9I8w7OoAnqsopqCZZ0Xbc0PKy4/H2Uu1 XhjzO0JfvA3TS5bW2F9MbyHipJ6nT1zqHK1eFy8g= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.29] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <9ADAF2A2-FA6F-493A-A1A3-E9386C8150D1@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6E4300E6-171C-4913-8BFA-D1345B49DD9F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 17:07:43 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc.all@ietf.org To: "" References: <34AC90DD-12D6-4F34-B2A0-A1BB4D66A701@nostrum.com> <39984F53-5EA4-475C-B060-C2E16CF37FB3@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:07:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6E4300E6-171C-4913-8BFA-D1345B49DD9F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_81C7AA97-1296-4E7E-B135-6713C2653829" --Apple-Mail=_81C7AA97-1296-4E7E-B135-6713C2653829 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Oops, I forgot two more minor editorial comments. This does not change = the last call status. - Abstract: The abstract should not contain citations. It=E2=80=99s okay = to mention an RFC number, but don=E2=80=99t put it in brackets like a = citation would be in the body. - It needs a normative reverence to RFC 8174. Thanks! Ben. > On Jan 30, 2019, at 5:02 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 > Hi Roland, >=20 > I think this version is ready for IETF Last Call. I will request that = shortly. >=20 > I still have some minor editorial comments below. These can be = addressed along with any IETF LC feedback. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. >=20 >> On Jan 14, 2019, at 5:29 PM, Ben Campbell > wrote: >>=20 >> Signed PGP part >> Apologies for the late response. I somehow missed seeing your = response until now. Comments inline. I removed sections that seem = resolved. >>=20 >> Please submit a new revision as soon as you are ready. >>=20 >> Thanks! >>=20 >> Ben. >>=20 >>> On Nov 30, 2018, at 4:38 AM, R.Jesske@telekom.de wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>=20 >> [...] >>=20 >>>> *** Substantive Comments *** >>>>=20 >>>> =C2=A73: =E2=80=9Copen to be used by any other network=E2=80=9D >>>> That would really mean =E2=80=9Cany other network that includes = ISUP interworking >>>> gateways and uses Q.850 reason codes=E2=80=9D, right? >>>>=20 >>> [RJ] Yes >=20 > I think it would be worth mentioning that in the draft. >=20 > [=E2=80=A6] >=20 >>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> =C2=A76 and =C2=A77: >>>>=20 >>>> Unfortunately, RFC 3326 contains no privacy considerations at all, = so we really >>>> can=E2=80=99t say that this doesn=E2=80=99t change them. The = expectation for privacy >>>> considerations has changed since that RFC was published. I think = this >>>> document does need to describe any privacy considerations that the >>>> combination of a Q.850 reason code and location might have. >>>=20 >>> [RJ] I would propose to delete then the first sentence. >>> Thus the considerations would state: >>> While the addition of the location parameter >>> does provide an indicator of the entity that added the location in >>> the signaling path this provides little more exposure than the >>> [Q.850] cause itself. >>>=20 >>> I could add: >>> When applying privacy according to RFC 3323 the location value will = not give any hint to the identity originating or terminating party of = the call. It shows only the location of the release of the call which = maybe the end device itself (location user) or any other network part. >>> The location is even not showing from which city or town the call is = coming from. >>>=20 >>> Would this be enough? >>=20 >> If the call was released by the end device, does that not let people = infer information about the original callee, if that device can be = associated with the callee? >=20 > I think we=E2=80=99ve resolved that part, but looking at the new = language: >=20 > "When applying privacy according to [RFC3323] the location value will = not give any hint to the identity originating or terminating party of = the call. It shows only the location of the release of the call which = maybe the end device itself (location user) or any other network part. = The location is even not showing from which city or town the call is = coming from." >=20 > I think readers will still get confused by the use of =E2=80=9Clocation=E2= =80=9D to describe something that=E2=80=99s not a =E2=80=9Cphysical=E2=80=9D= location. I think it would help in this sentence to clarify that we are = talking about =E2=80=9CISUP location=E2=80=9D. Also, the is the use of = RFC 3323 really relevant? That is, I don=E2=80=99t think the ISUP = location reveals the identity one way or another, right? It=E2=80=99s = not up to this draft to worry about whether some other part of the SIP = message does. >=20 > Finally, there are some minor grammar issues. I propose the following = simplification: >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe ISUP location value itself will not reveal the identity = of the originating or terminating party of the call. It shows only the = ISUP network location of the device that released the call. The ISUP = location does not show show the physical location of the caller or = callee.=E2=80=9D >=20 > (Nit) =C2=A77, new text: I propose the following edit: >=20 > OLD: > "[RFC3398] does an extensive security consideration due to > interworking between ISUP and SIP.=E2=80=9D > NEW: > "[RFC3398] describes detailed security consideration due to > interworking between ISUP and SIP." --Apple-Mail=_81C7AA97-1296-4E7E-B135-6713C2653829 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Oops,= I forgot two more minor editorial comments. This does not change the = last call status.

- = Abstract: The abstract should not contain citations. It=E2=80=99s okay = to mention an RFC number, but don=E2=80=99t put it in brackets like a = citation would be in the body.

- It needs a normative reverence to RFC = 8174.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Jan 30, 2019, at 5:02 PM, = Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:

Hi Roland,

I think this version is ready = for IETF Last Call. I will request that shortly.

I still have some minor = editorial comments below. These can be addressed along with any IETF LC = feedback.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Jan 14, 2019, at 5:29 PM, Ben = Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:

Signed PGP part
Apologies for the late = response. I somehow missed seeing your response until now. Comments = inline. I removed sections that seem resolved.

Please submit a new revision as soon as you are ready.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Nov = 30, 2018, at 4:38 AM, R.Jesske@telekom.de wrote:



[...]

*** Substantive Comments ***

=C2=A73: =E2=80=9Copen to be used by any other network=E2=80=9D=
That would really mean =E2=80=9Cany other network that = includes ISUP interworking
gateways and uses Q.850 reason = codes=E2=80=9D, right?

[RJ] = Yes

I think it would be worth mentioning that in the = draft.

[=E2=80=A6]



=C2=A76 and =C2=A77:

Unfortunately, RFC 3326 contains no privacy considerations at = all, so we really
can=E2=80=99t say that this doesn=E2=80=99= t change them. The expectation for privacy
considerations = has changed since that RFC was published. I think this
document does need to describe any privacy considerations = that  the
combination of a Q.850 reason code and = location might have.

[RJ] I = would propose to delete then the first sentence.
Thus the = considerations would state:
While the addition of the = location parameter
 does provide an indicator of the = entity that added the location in
 the signaling path = this provides little more exposure than the
 [Q.850] = cause itself.

I could add:
When= applying privacy according to RFC 3323 the location value will not give = any hint to the identity originating or terminating party of the call. = It shows only the location of the release of the call which maybe the = end device itself (location user) or any other network part.
The location is even not showing from which city or town the = call is coming from.

Would this be = enough?

If the call was = released by the end device, does that not let people infer information = about the original callee, if that device can be associated with the = callee?

I think we=E2=80=99ve resolved that part, but looking at the = new language:

"When = applying privacy according to [RFC3323] the location value will not give = any hint to the identity originating or terminating party of the call. = It shows only the location of the release of the call which maybe the = end device itself (location user) or any other network part. The = location is even not showing from which city or town the call is coming = from."

I think = readers will still get confused by the use of =E2=80=9Clocation=E2=80=9D = to describe something that=E2=80=99s not a =E2=80=9Cphysical=E2=80=9D = location. I think it would help in this sentence to clarify that we are = talking about =E2=80=9CISUP location=E2=80=9D. Also, the is the use of = RFC 3323 really relevant? That is, I don=E2=80=99t think the ISUP = location reveals the identity one way or another, right? It=E2=80=99s = not up to this draft to worry about whether some other part of the SIP = message does.

Finally, = there are some minor grammar issues. I propose the following = simplification:

=E2=80=9CThe ISUP location value itself will not reveal the = identity of the originating or terminating party of the call.  It = shows only the ISUP network location of the device that released the = call. The ISUP location does not show show the physical location of the = caller or callee.=E2=80=9D

(Nit) =C2=A77, new text: I propose the following = edit:

OLD:
"[RFC3398] does an extensive = security consideration due to
  interworking between ISUP and SIP.=E2=80=9D<= br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;" class=3D"">NEW:
"[RFC3398] describes detailed = security consideration due to
  interworking between ISUP and = SIP."

= --Apple-Mail=_81C7AA97-1296-4E7E-B135-6713C2653829-- --Apple-Mail=_6E4300E6-171C-4913-8BFA-D1345B49DD9F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlxSLj8ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A3ShBAAojqfLck67qjwtdO+SN48kd6Q5RS3i1Uoac8EKcZIeBa1Ml4gOlbjfgbr +iWnJRK8GJzFFz5oJgia9MfT//DzF/2sqv1ChDjETTXEbxQWD20ZzM6dJvA5re9y JLPx1qoC8qN76E2WONPXJk1gNa34X2Ljtq3tpfR4oPHwPTwTJYyEH/xbAXw8z/Mp JOyroKDEJRcdA3wTzlnGqsWJY17p913B2IV5wMthuvxbBi0MP3TwGCq8KDJB2InM B3TXAQKPtR7a5CfdexRdXOHGu3fTy0uVQZc4buNSJJqKyWYb42DxJ6Eq4kDhMLX+ NC/oAAgyCIII2YkAmoPbDt5y84zaBLOQ0Ok5xU8a0USVtHgUOdJoe/sAA2eV5yFj QXMe8t1P6L3SSZBViWLbXV9pdcVPUE69OsBVqi1ORsOESv5XCnASAcknDX+OetWL 13MJpD59iCdrOBcs5sjRfGcTg6b6tdq1m6kB3W5dgiuR7YoEeAC+p0FFcmSRdTBo XYYtprX5CO9vRHkewYq+Tyovurozg6Kq2RjVAv6ROuk5Jee/b1x95NHEsVp0zxOJ FhX1LBMyhv8M7ZNwxOp9CfrpO2GlJYeqz6QZTOou93zuvNwLCFchLH9l0lHJMx4s JSmLTYufADDZzZmH591Ep3Fxl9P/MwvGlm2E9Xcrow9Q6yHMrro= =+X6u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6E4300E6-171C-4913-8BFA-D1345B49DD9F-- From nobody Wed Jan 30 15:12:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC934130DE3; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 15:12:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.90.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: ben@nostrum.com, draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc@ietf.org, sipcore-chairs@ietf.org, sipcore@ietf.org, br@brianrosen.net, Brian Rosen Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Message-ID: <154888994276.10480.11336730495775412374.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 15:12:22 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Last Call: (ISUP Cause Location Parameter for the SIP Reason Header Field) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:12:23 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG (sipcore) to consider the following document: - 'ISUP Cause Location Parameter for the SIP Reason Header Field' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-02-13. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract The SIP Reason header field is defined for carrying ISDN User Part (ISUP) cause values as well as SIP response codes. Some services in SIP networks may need to know the ISUP location where the call was released in the PSTN network to correctly interpret the reason of release. This document will update [RFC3326]. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Thu Jan 31 14:31:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684C6130E88 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:14:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MbZXtDY2fTBg for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADF66130E6A for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.29] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x0VJCHFR040149 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 31 Jan 2019 13:12:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1548961946; bh=t6ELSZ8GjOFuC9fnyuPkBj3THon8g2WIk77F9KaeQhs=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=Fp8LqfskiUqyTcmQfZzflvjzQpMEuoCm/ESaBy57OMHdEvdMEN2A3UrlI75nJOo+y 9UJjUZB6BvG1T969SwdVzbp0MLdYSmsC2Bq9Y90zrscWKO7e6/j+qRpRoQFTBfTX+f Yx06Cn+PD0A0E8bgihzJLTT6QIPuyA05rZo+tIWs= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.29] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2D4D41AC-DCD2-4166-ACEB-AFF59212BE24"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 13:12:16 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20190131181522.008FCB82E2D@rfc-editor.org> Cc: jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com, Henning Schulzrinne , Gonzalo Camarillo , alan.johnston@wcom.com, jon.peterson@neustar.com, rsparks@dynamicsoft.com, mjh@icir.org, schooler@research.att.com, Alexey Melnikov , Adam Roach , Dean Willis , "Keith (Keith) DRAGE" , bella@rabenkind.at To: SIPCORE References: <20190131181522.008FCB82E2D@rfc-editor.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:31:19 -0800 Subject: Re: [sipcore] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC3261 (5619) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:14:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2D4D41AC-DCD2-4166-ACEB-AFF59212BE24 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, I think the point of the example was that Alice=E2=80=99s phone could = have learned its home proxy via configuration or DHCP. Whether it learns = an address, or a name that it then resolves with DNS is not material to = the example. Perhaps it would have been more clear if some other word = had been chosen than =E2=80=9Caddress=E2=80=9D. I lean towards rejecting this as a technical erratum. If people want to = address the use of =E2=80=9Caddress=E2=80=9D as an editorial erratum, we = could address that with a new errata report (which would likely be = marked as =E2=80=9Chold for update=E2=80=9D. What do other people think? Thanks! Ben. > On Jan 31, 2019, at 12:15 PM, RFC Errata System = wrote: >=20 > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC3261, > "SIP: Session Initiation Protocol". >=20 > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5619 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Isabella Damb=C3=B6ck >=20 > Section: 4 >=20 > Original Text > ------------- > The address > of the atlanta.com SIP server could have been configured in Alice's > softphone, or it could have been discovered by DHCP, for example. >=20 > Corrected Text > -------------- > The address > of the atlanta.com SIP server could have been configured in Alice's > softphone, or it could have been discovered by DNS, for example. >=20 > Notes > ----- > DHCP Server gives away the DNS-Server to use (or sets it with DHCP = option) but usually does no address translation itself. It would also be = possible to omit the whole sentence. >=20 > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. >=20 > -------------------------------------- > RFC3261 (draft-ietf-sip-rfc2543bis-09) > -------------------------------------- > Title : SIP: Session Initiation Protocol > Publication Date : June 2002 > Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, H. Schulzrinne, G. Camarillo, A. = Johnston, J. Peterson, R. Sparks, M. Handley, E. Schooler > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Session Initiation Protocol > Area : Real-time Applications and Infrastructure > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG --Apple-Mail=_2D4D41AC-DCD2-4166-ACEB-AFF59212BE24 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlxTSJAACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A1aYhAAs5vffHZVMkWmu7Asd94RNJ5UKetvZ86Balot8D9n0AZ9NzXq08X73a3O /JfLoa2xj/je3ksJThDd80CyrQz/rM+CTUa+75H2ynpFFSsGaOFhJNJS6b/y6iB/ yOLv4SR0NVMsOAq1UAilgihFBzBRiPUxmcpNwM/CX07vJ3ch+5j6OnFmCYTI6X+1 RHMxBNEN47dcPWCwl/8i5lZSh40wKFl76oRqWmA3mhwO5usYZxZ2icCvUC5kijUV 24PZgvKU42aGpx04tvWN2qIE7X62wDn5+afVrY+HR3knzZbnfCHrfqzmb7abgrMu qlwlaM2tNZgShe6P0+a6q519oLUFo5dNy9osgfAVa0WXkUwJdP9X56E+WiPkFH62 JqW0UPJLMQzdFdZNLv7tOdwtI0vp52rj4QpzuIavJBmx4YAktUbHo9vFVE2G1LL3 FTIGaNcKpOZzRY0qm14LCXf308q+tuCM5VGqwSq0OayGB+2RiqM/S6/SLf2ElGoY Yv/WBuiN78aKfCzE8Xdkl8iPgyqfqHz5KzNBsXmgMYlaEQ+r5yAIimljD10JzrqR Akctp61k20l26xfTvL8ke8l9dUBKbpTcZY1v164gwZYXXTwLw0oy1ovCk4mC/tUi FCaTB+RYwJkUhmVjAdHAE5FFqxH6Z8JG4YyrIZjzvgBFhiGGyFk= =WJar -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2D4D41AC-DCD2-4166-ACEB-AFF59212BE24-- From nobody Thu Jan 31 16:55:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EDB131196 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 16:55:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x321Haij13Ip for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 16:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (outgoing-alum.mit.edu [18.7.68.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69785131195 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 16:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x110t7EO019394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:55:08 -0500 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <20190131181522.008FCB82E2D@rfc-editor.org> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <0acbaf9b-4022-028e-c645-28cd49d818b3@alum.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:55:07 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC3261 (5619) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 00:55:14 -0000 On 1/31/19 2:12 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > I think the point of the example was that Alice’s phone could have learned its home proxy via configuration or DHCP. Whether it learns an address, or a name that it then resolves with DNS is not material to the example. Perhaps it would have been more clear if some other word had been chosen than “address”. > > I lean towards rejecting this as a technical erratum. If people want to address the use of “address” as an editorial erratum, we could address that with a new errata report (which would likely be marked as “hold for update”. > > What do other people think? I think just reject it. > Thanks! > > Ben. > > >> On Jan 31, 2019, at 12:15 PM, RFC Errata System wrote: >> >> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC3261, >> "SIP: Session Initiation Protocol". >> >> -------------------------------------- >> You may review the report below and at: >> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5619 >> >> -------------------------------------- >> Type: Technical >> Reported by: Isabella Damböck >> >> Section: 4 >> >> Original Text >> ------------- >> The address >> of the atlanta.com SIP server could have been configured in Alice's >> softphone, or it could have been discovered by DHCP, for example. >> >> Corrected Text >> -------------- >> The address >> of the atlanta.com SIP server could have been configured in Alice's >> softphone, or it could have been discovered by DNS, for example. >> >> Notes >> ----- >> DHCP Server gives away the DNS-Server to use (or sets it with DHCP option) but usually does no address translation itself. It would also be possible to omit the whole sentence. >> >> Instructions: >> ------------- >> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please >> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or >> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party >> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. >> >> -------------------------------------- >> RFC3261 (draft-ietf-sip-rfc2543bis-09) >> -------------------------------------- >> Title : SIP: Session Initiation Protocol >> Publication Date : June 2002 >> Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, H. Schulzrinne, G. Camarillo, A. Johnston, J. Peterson, R. Sparks, M. Handley, E. Schooler >> Category : PROPOSED STANDARD >> Source : Session Initiation Protocol >> Area : Real-time Applications and Infrastructure >> Stream : IETF >> Verifying Party : IESG > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >