From rjsparks@nostrum.com Tue Jan 25 14:16:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CF793A6875 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:16:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.044, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JV34eSlXcC11 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5F33A6891 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from dn3-177.estacado.net (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0PMJrNw016657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:19:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) From: Robert Sparks In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:19:52 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <96A64812-4C87-49CA-BC84-FEB289ADFDE3@nostrum.com> References: <4CDB9E64.6070704@stpeter.im> <6E942205-7EDC-47CF-81C5-D8AFD163C0E8@magorcorp.com> To: sixpac@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: Re: [sixpac] charter proposal - correlation between SIP and XMPP X-BeenThere: sixpac@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "The SIXPAC \(SIP Interworking with XMPP in Presence Aware Clients\) list is dedicated to discussion of dual-stack SIP/XMPP user agents." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:16:57 -0000 Conversations here have stalled again. From stpeter@stpeter.im Tue Jan 25 14:36:39 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134913A68A4 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:36:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZlvzZR7oB5z4 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C743A68A2 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-234.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-234.cisco.com [64.101.72.234]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8246400F6 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:55:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4D3F5126.7010107@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:39:34 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sixpac@ietf.org References: <4CDB9E64.6070704@stpeter.im> <6E942205-7EDC-47CF-81C5-D8AFD163C0E8@magorcorp.com> <96A64812-4C87-49CA-BC84-FEB289ADFDE3@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <96A64812-4C87-49CA-BC84-FEB289ADFDE3@nostrum.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080809020606010004010504" Subject: Re: [sixpac] charter proposal - correlation between SIP and XMPP X-BeenThere: sixpac@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "The SIXPAC \(SIP Interworking with XMPP in Presence Aware Clients\) list is dedicated to discussion of dual-stack SIP/XMPP user agents." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:36:39 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080809020606010004010504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 1/25/11 3:19 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > Conversations here have stalled again. 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X-Original-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE493A69A2 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:17:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.914 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.914 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.542, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 55RY-8voX1o2 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:17:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-da01.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.128.24]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B1D3A6944 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:17:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from vaebh101.NOE.Nokia.com (vaebh101.europe.nokia.com [10.160.244.22]) by mgw-da01.nokia.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p0QKKRQ9004664 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:20:37 +0200 Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.5]) by vaebh101.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:20:28 +0200 Received: from 008-AM1MMR1-005.mgdnok.nokia.com (65.54.30.60) by NOK-am1MHUB-01.mgdnok.nokia.com (65.54.30.5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.255.0; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:20:27 +0100 Received: from 008-AM1MPN1-003.mgdnok.nokia.com ([169.254.3.158]) by 008-AM1MMR1-005.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.60]) with mapi; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:20:20 +0100 From: To: Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 Thread-Index: AQHLvZTBMsVG7EQwQ06Q+aXi3KtO9ZPjrp/w Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:20:19 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jan 2011 20:20:28.0469 (UTC) FILETIME=[791A1E50:01CBBD96] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: [sixpac] FW: New Version Notification for draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 X-BeenThere: sixpac@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "The SIXPAC \(SIP Interworking with XMPP in Presence Aware Clients\) list is dedicated to discussion of dual-stack SIP/XMPP user agents." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:17:37 -0000 WW91J3JlIHJpZ2h0LCB3ZSBzaG91bGQgZ2V0IHNvbWUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBnb2luZyBvbi4NCg0K SSBoYXZlIGp1c3QgdXBsb2FkZWQgYSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBkcmFmdC12ZWlra29sYWluZW4t c2lwLXhtcHAtY29leC1yZXFzLCB3aGljaCBjYW4gYmUgZm91bmQgYXQgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvZHJhZnQtdmVpa2tvbGFpbmVuLXNpcC14bXBwLWNvZXgtcmVx cy0wMi50eHQgDQoNClRoZSBjaGFuZ2VzIGluIHRoaXMgdmVyc2lvbiBhZGRyZXNzIHRoZSBjb21t ZW50cyBtYWRlIGJ5IFBldGVyIE11c2dyYXZlIChtYWlubHkgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbnMpOg0KDQpJ biBSRVEtMTog4oCcU0lQIGNvbnRhY3TigJ0gY2hhbmdlZCB0byDigJxTSVAgYWRkcmVzc+KAnQ0K DQpJbiBSRVEtMzogIkl0IG11c3QgYmUgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gaW5jbHVkZSBTSVAgcmVhbC10aW1l IG1lZGlhIHJlbGF0ZWQgY29udGFjdCBhbmQgc3RhdHVzIGluIFhNUFAgcHJlc2VuY2UgaW5mb3Jt YXRpb24uIiBjaGFuZ2VkIHRvICJJdCBtdXN0IGJlIHBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIGluY2x1ZGUgU0lQIGFk ZHJlc3MgYW5kIHN0YXR1cyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpbiBYTVBQIHByZXNlbmNlLiINCg0KQW5kIGEg Y291cGxlIG9mIHR5cG9zLg0KDQpPbmUgZnVydGhlciBjb21tZW50IG1hZGUgYnkgUGV0ZXIgbWln aHQgbWVyaXQgYSBiaXQgbW9yZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLCBuYW1lbHkgc2F5aW5nIHNvbWV0aGluZyBh Ym91dCBjYXNlcyB3aGVyZSB0d28gU0lQIGRldmljZXMgYXJlIHJlZ2lzdGVyZWQgdG8gdGhlIHNh bWUgQU9SIGFuZCB0d28gWE1QUCBjbGllbnRzIGFyZSBsb2dnZWQgaW4uIFRoaXMgaXMgcmVsYXRl ZCB0byB0aGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiB3ZSBoYWQgYW4gY29ycmVsYXRpb24sIGFuZCB3aGV0aGVyIG9y IG5vdCBpdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgbWVudGlvbmVkIGluIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyIG9yIG5vdC4gDQoNCk9w aW5pb25zIG9uIHRoaXMgd291bGQgYmUgaGVscGZ1bC4NCg0KQWxzbywgcGxlYXNlIHRha2UgYSBm cmVzaCBsb29rIGF0IHRoZSBkcmFmdCBhbmQgZXhwcmVzcyB5b3VyIG9waW5pb25zIG9uIHdoZXRo ZXIgdGhlIGFwcHJvYWNoIGluIGdlbmVyYWwgbWFrZXMgc2Vuc2UsIGRvIHlvdSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRo IHRoZSB1c2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cywgaXMgc29tZXRoaW5nIG1pc3NpbmcgZXRj Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MNClNpbW8NCg0KIA0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206 IGV4dCBJRVRGIEktRCBTdWJtaXNzaW9uIFRvb2wgW21haWx0bzppZHN1Ym1pc3Npb25AaWV0Zi5v cmddIA0KU2VudDogMjYgSmFudWFyeSwgMjAxMSAyMjowNQ0KVG86IFZlaWtrb2xhaW5lbiBTaW1v IChOb2tpYS1NUy9IZWxzaW5raSkNCkNjOiBJc29tYWtpIE1hcmt1cyAoTm9raWEtQ0lDL0VzcG9v KQ0KU3ViamVjdDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZvciBkcmFmdC12ZWlra29sYWlu ZW4tc2lwLXhtcHAtY29leC1yZXFzLTAyIA0KDQoNCkEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSS1ELCBkcmFm dC12ZWlra29sYWluZW4tc2lwLXhtcHAtY29leC1yZXFzLTAyLnR4dCBoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWNjZXNz ZnVsbHkgc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IFNpbW8gVmVpa2tvbGFpbmVuIGFuZCBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIElF VEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCg0KRmlsZW5hbWU6CSBkcmFmdC12ZWlra29sYWluZW4tc2lwLXhtcHAt Y29leC1yZXFzDQpSZXZpc2lvbjoJIDAyDQpUaXRsZToJCSBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgYW5kIFVzZSBD YXNlcyBmb3IgQ29tYmluaW5nIFNJUCBCYXNlZCBSZWFsLXRpbWUgTWVkaWEgU2Vzc2lvbnMgV2l0 aCBYTVBQIEJhc2VkIEluc3RhbnQgTWVzc2FnaW5nIGFuZCBQcmVzZW5jZSBTZXJ2aWNlLg0KQ3Jl YXRpb25fZGF0ZToJIDIwMTEtMDEtMjYNCldHIElEOgkJIEluZGVwZW5kZW50IFN1Ym1pc3Npb24N Ck51bWJlcl9vZl9wYWdlczogOA0KDQpBYnN0cmFjdDoNClRoaXMgbWVtbyBkZWZpbmVzIHVzZSBj YXNlcyBhbmQgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGZvciBjb21iaW5pbmcgU2Vzc2lvbg0KSW5pdGlhdGlvbiBQ cm90b2NvbCAoU0lQKSBiYXNlZCByZWFsLXRpbWUgbWVkaWEgc2Vzc2lvbnMgd2l0aA0KRXh0ZW5z aWJsZSBNZXNzYWdpbmcgYW5kIFByZXNlbmNlIFByb3RvY29sIChYTVBQKSBiYXNlZCBpbnN0YW50 DQptZXNzYWdpbmcgYW5kIHByZXNlbmNlIHNlcnZpY2VzIGluIGEgc2VhbWxlc3MgbWFubmVyLg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0Lg0KDQoN Cg== From john.elwell@siemens-enterprise.com Thu Jan 27 02:05:39 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F3E28C137 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 02:05:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.426 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.426 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8rZQqCO-XmOC for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 02:05:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms04.m0019.fra.mmp.de.bt.com (m0019.fra.mmp.de.bt.com [62.180.227.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E1428C12F for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 02:05:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from senmx12-mx ([62.134.46.10] [62.134.46.10]) by ms04.m0020.fra.mmp.de.bt.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3163507; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:08:40 +0100 Received: from MCHP064A.global-ad.net (unknown [172.29.37.63]) by senmx12-mx (Server) with ESMTP id 8BA5A23F0278; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:08:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from MCHP058A.global-ad.net ([172.29.37.55]) by MCHP064A.global-ad.net ([172.29.37.63]) with mapi; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:08:40 +0100 From: "Elwell, John" To: "Simo.Veikkolainen@nokia.com" , "sixpac@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:08:39 +0100 Thread-Topic: [sixpac] FW: New Version Notification for draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 Thread-Index: AQHLvZTBMsVG7EQwQ06Q+aXi3KtO9ZPjrp/wgADIKnA= Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [sixpac] FW: New Version Notification for draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 X-BeenThere: sixpac@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "The SIXPAC \(SIP Interworking with XMPP in Presence Aware Clients\) list is dedicated to discussion of dual-stack SIP/XMPP user agents." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:05:40 -0000 The requirements look reasonable. I would like to see some solution proposa= ls, to help gauge whether the requirements are reasonable and sufficient. Just a few minor comments: 1. "Offering overlapping services (e.g. presence) via both SIP and XMPP is out of scope of this document." The term "overlapping" is not entirely clear on its own. Perhaps it might b= e better to say: "Offering the same service (e.g., presence) via both SIP and XMPP....".=20 2. "We assume that the user initially only needs to know the contact address of the other user in one protocol space. The contact address for the other protocol must be learned by some means." The second sentence doesn't make it clear that this discovery is within the= scope of SIXPAC. I would suggest: "Discovering the contact address for the other protocol is within the scope= of this work." 3. "When an integrated endpoint communicates with a separated endpoint, normal SIP and XMPP procedures apply and no extensions defined in this memo are used." In fact the integrated endpoint might attempt to use SIXPAC extensions, but= would fall back to using basic SIP/XMPP. Also "this memo" does not define = extensions, only requirements. I would suggest: "When an integrated endpoint communicates with a separated endpoint, they s= hould fall back to using normal SIP and XMPP procedures." 4. " A user who has obtained another user's SIP URI is able to discover the other user's XMPP URI so that she can send the other user XMPP IM or subscribe to the other user's presence, or just populate her address book for futher use. The user is able to do this without bothering the other user, provided the other user has pre- authorized the operation." Should this be a 4th bullet, rather than an ordinary paragraph extending th= e 3rd bullet? 5. "REQ-4: It must be possible for a user, who only knows another user's SIP URI, to learn the other user's XMPP URI." Is there a particular reason this is asymmetrical? Should there also be a r= equirement for a user who knows another user's XMPP URI to learn that user'= s SIP URI? John > -----Original Message----- > From: sixpac-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:sixpac-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Simo.Veikkolainen@nokia.com > Sent: 26 January 2011 20:20 > To: sixpac@ietf.org > Subject: [sixpac] FW: New Version Notification for=20 > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 >=20 > You're right, we should get some discussion going on. >=20 > I have just uploaded a new version of=20 > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs, which can be found at=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmp > p-coex-reqs-02.txt=20 >=20 > The changes in this version address the comments made by=20 > Peter Musgrave (mainly clarifications): >=20 > In REQ-1: "SIP contact" changed to "SIP address" >=20 > In REQ-3: "It must be possible to include SIP real-time media=20 > related contact and status in XMPP presence information."=20 > changed to "It must be possible to include SIP address and=20 > status information in XMPP presence." >=20 > And a couple of typos. >=20 > One further comment made by Peter might merit a bit more=20 > discussion, namely saying something about cases where two SIP=20 > devices are registered to the same AOR and two XMPP clients=20 > are logged in. This is related to the discussion we had an=20 > correlation, and whether or not it should be mentioned in the=20 > charter or not.=20 >=20 > Opinions on this would be helpful. >=20 > Also, please take a fresh look at the draft and express your=20 > opinions on whether the approach in general makes sense, do=20 > you agree with the use cases and requirements, is something=20 > missing etc. >=20 > Thanks > Simo >=20 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ext IETF I-D Submission Tool [mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org]=20 > Sent: 26 January, 2011 22:05 > To: Veikkolainen Simo (Nokia-MS/Helsinki) > Cc: Isomaki Markus (Nokia-CIC/Espoo) > Subject: New Version Notification for=20 > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D,=20 > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02.txt has been=20 > successfully submitted by Simo Veikkolainen and posted to the=20 > IETF repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs > Revision: 02 > Title: Requirements and Use Cases for=20 > Combining SIP Based Real-time Media Sessions With XMPP Based=20 > Instant Messaging and Presence Service. > Creation_date: 2011-01-26 > WG ID: Independent Submission > Number_of_pages: 8 >=20 > Abstract: > This memo defines use cases and requirements for combining Session > Initiation Protocol (SIP) based real-time media sessions with > Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) based instant > messaging and presence services in a seamless manner. > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sixpac mailing list > sixpac@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sixpac > = From Simo.Veikkolainen@nokia.com Thu Jan 27 23:27:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54A93A6A96 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 23:27:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.849, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qe0qz0NUaZfr for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 23:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-da02.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.128.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C2D3A6A67 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 23:27:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from vaebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (vaebh106.europe.nokia.com [10.160.244.32]) by mgw-da02.nokia.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p0S7UX5k004435; Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:30:52 +0200 Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.6]) by vaebh106.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:30:36 +0200 Received: from 008-AM1MMR1-001.mgdnok.nokia.com (65.54.30.56) by NOK-am1MHUB-02.mgdnok.nokia.com (65.54.30.6) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.255.0; Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:30:36 +0100 Received: from 008-AM1MPN1-003.mgdnok.nokia.com ([169.254.3.211]) by 008-AM1MMR1-001.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.56]) with mapi; Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:30:35 +0100 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [sixpac] FW: New Version Notification for draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 Thread-Index: AQHLvgoy0wIpnEKqE06V6/QWfLMz+JPl+cAw Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 07:30:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2011 07:30:36.0581 (UTC) FILETIME=[416ADD50:01CBBEBD] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: Re: [sixpac] FW: New Version Notification for draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 X-BeenThere: sixpac@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "The SIXPAC \(SIP Interworking with XMPP in Presence Aware Clients\) list is dedicated to discussion of dual-stack SIP/XMPP user agents." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 07:27:53 -0000 Thanks for the comments John! See below. > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Elwell, John [mailto:john.elwell@siemens-enterprise.com] > Sent: 27 January, 2011 12:09 > To: Veikkolainen Simo (Nokia-MS/Helsinki); sixpac@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [sixpac] FW: New Version Notification for draft- > veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 >=20 > The requirements look reasonable. I would like to see some solution > proposals, to help gauge whether the requirements are reasonable and > sufficient. >=20 > Just a few minor comments: > 1. "Offering overlapping services (e.g. > presence) via both SIP and XMPP is out of scope of this document." > The term "overlapping" is not entirely clear on its own. Perhaps it > might be better to say: > "Offering the same service (e.g., presence) via both SIP and XMPP....". Changed. =20 > 2. "We assume that the user initially only needs to know the contact > address of the other user in one protocol space. The contact > address > for the other protocol must be learned by some means." > The second sentence doesn't make it clear that this discovery is within > the scope of SIXPAC. I would suggest: > "Discovering the contact address for the other protocol is within the > scope of this work." Changed. =20 > 3. "When > an integrated endpoint communicates with a separated endpoint, > normal > SIP and XMPP procedures apply and no extensions defined in this memo > are used." > In fact the integrated endpoint might attempt to use SIXPAC extensions, > but would fall back to using basic SIP/XMPP. Also "this memo" does not > define extensions, only requirements. > I would suggest: > "When an integrated endpoint communicates with a separated endpoint, > they should fall back to using normal SIP and XMPP procedures." Agree your text captures the point better. Now looking at the text, I'm not= sure the "integrated" vs. "separated" endpoint was a very good choice. Mig= ht need to think of a better alternative. > 4. " A user who has obtained another user's SIP URI is able to discover > the other user's XMPP URI so that she can send the other user > XMPP > IM or subscribe to the other user's presence, or just populate > her > address book for futher use. The user is able to do this without > bothering the other user, provided the other user has pre- > authorized the operation." > Should this be a 4th bullet, rather than an ordinary paragraph > extending the 3rd bullet? Changed. > 5. "REQ-4: It must be possible for a user, who only knows another > user's > SIP URI, to learn the other user's XMPP URI." > Is there a particular reason this is asymmetrical? Should there also be > a requirement for a user who knows another user's XMPP URI to learn > that user's SIP URI? You're right, probably there is no reason for this to be asymmetrical. Adde= d simply "and vice versa." to this requirement. Simo > John >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sixpac-bounces@ietf.org > > [mailto:sixpac-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Simo.Veikkolainen@nokia.com > > Sent: 26 January 2011 20:20 > > To: sixpac@ietf.org > > Subject: [sixpac] FW: New Version Notification for > > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 > > > > You're right, we should get some discussion going on. > > > > I have just uploaded a new version of > > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs, which can be found at > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmp > > p-coex-reqs-02.txt > > > > The changes in this version address the comments made by > > Peter Musgrave (mainly clarifications): > > > > In REQ-1: "SIP contact" changed to "SIP address" > > > > In REQ-3: "It must be possible to include SIP real-time media > > related contact and status in XMPP presence information." > > changed to "It must be possible to include SIP address and > > status information in XMPP presence." > > > > And a couple of typos. > > > > One further comment made by Peter might merit a bit more > > discussion, namely saying something about cases where two SIP > > devices are registered to the same AOR and two XMPP clients > > are logged in. This is related to the discussion we had an > > correlation, and whether or not it should be mentioned in the > > charter or not. > > > > Opinions on this would be helpful. > > > > Also, please take a fresh look at the draft and express your > > opinions on whether the approach in general makes sense, do > > you agree with the use cases and requirements, is something > > missing etc. > > > > Thanks > > Simo > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ext IETF I-D Submission Tool [mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org] > > Sent: 26 January, 2011 22:05 > > To: Veikkolainen Simo (Nokia-MS/Helsinki) > > Cc: Isomaki Markus (Nokia-CIC/Espoo) > > Subject: New Version Notification for > > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02 > > > > > > A new version of I-D, > > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02.txt has been > > successfully submitted by Simo Veikkolainen and posted to the > > IETF repository. > > > > Filename: draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs > > Revision: 02 > > Title: Requirements and Use Cases for > > Combining SIP Based Real-time Media Sessions With XMPP Based > > Instant Messaging and Presence Service. > > Creation_date: 2011-01-26 > > WG ID: Independent Submission > > Number_of_pages: 8 > > > > Abstract: > > This memo defines use cases and requirements for combining Session > > Initiation Protocol (SIP) based real-time media sessions with > > Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) based instant > > messaging and presence services in a seamless manner. > > > > > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sixpac mailing list > > sixpac@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sixpac > >