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From: Kirsty P <Kirsty.p@ncsc.gov.uk>
To: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Smart] Draft Charter For SMART Proposed RG
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From: Kirsty P <Kirsty.p@ncsc.gov.uk>
To: "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
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Subject: [Smart] SMART Problems
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Hi SMART folks,


I promised an initial problems list that the group could be working on, so =
here it is! Please comment and/or add your own research ideas/existing proj=
ects those we've sketched out below...


Kirsty

  *   Assessment methodology: Systematic analysis of attack defence impacts=
 requires an evidence-based methodology. Research will start with a survey =
of existing attacks and existing detection methods. The information used by=
 each detection method from Internet protocols and other sources (such as e=
ndpoints) shall be identified. Further research will determine the relative=
 effectiveness of each detection method against each attack. In doing so, t=
his research will define methodologies for detection, as known attacks chan=
ge and detection methods develop. These methodologies can be used to provid=
e the basis of evidence for assessment of protocol impact.
  *   Certificate Transparency: Certificate transparency can be used to spo=
t mis-issued certificates for domains. But do certificate transparency logs=
 highlight malicious domains? More research is needed to determine the effe=
ctiveness of this technology in finding malicious sites.
  *   DMARC: Implementation of DMARC across government correlates with the =
numbers of phishing emails claiming to be from these domains dropping drama=
tically. Research is needed to ascertain the exact effects of implementing =
this protocol and to discover what impact, if any, this has had on the beha=
viour of the actors behind such phishing emails.
  *   DNS: As protocols to encrypt DNS traffic are implemented and newly-pr=
oposed designs surface, existing techniques for restricting DNS lookups to =
blacklisted domains may be impacted and could increase the risk from malwar=
e to a network. The IRTF can bring together network operators and protocol =
experts to research and discover new ways to provide this security as DNS t=
raffic becomes encrypted.
  *   IPv6: Adoption of IPv6 is now widespread, with statistics from 2017 i=
ndicating that 23% of networks advertise IPv6 connectivity. Evidence-based =
research is needed to establish what benefits or risks come from IPv6 adopt=
ion in terms of attack defence, and to find recommendations to optimise def=
ence protections.
  *   TLS: With a new version of TLS recently standardised, existing attack=
 defence methods need to adapt as implementations begin to adopt it. This a=
rea of research needs to grow quickly, with key questions such as: =93Can m=
alware be detected when it uses TLS 1.3? If so, how?=94 The IRTF is the ide=
al place to stimulate this thread of work, to bring together members with p=
rotocol expertise and members with defence experience.
  *   UDP: Some firewalls and middleboxes simply block UDP, in their effort=
s to protect networks from malicious traffic =96 so much so that this issue=
 was considered in the design of QUIC. When QUIC is standardised, UDP traff=
ic will only grow in volume, and it will be more important than ever to res=
earch techniques for detecting malicious activity in encrypted UDP streams,=
 enabling a better malware defence than simply blocking UDP traffic in futu=
re.



This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi=
n-bottom:0;} --></style>
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<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font=
-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"">
<p style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, No=
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ont-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">=
Hi SMART folks</span></font><span style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: rgb(33, =
33, 33); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, san=
s-serif;">,</span></p>
<span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"></span>
<p style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-seri=
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Symbols; font-size: 12pt; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: &quot;=
Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;"><br>
</span></p>
<span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"></span>
<p style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, No=
toColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, Emoji=
Symbols; font-size: 12pt; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: &quot;=
Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">I promised an init=
ial problems list that the group could be working on, so here it is!&nbsp;P=
lease comment and/or add your own research ideas/existing projects
 those we've sketched out&nbsp;below...</span></p>
<span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"></span>
<p style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, No=
toColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, Emoji=
Symbols; font-size: 12pt; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<br>
</p>
<span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"></span>
<p style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, No=
toColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, Emoji=
Symbols; font-size: 12pt; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<span style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: &quot;=
Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">Kirsty</span></p>
<span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"></span>
<p style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, No=
toColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, Emoji=
Symbols; font-size: 12pt; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
</p>
<span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quo=
t;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"></span>
<ul style=3D"color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: wf_segoe-ui_normal, &quot=
;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe WP&quot;, Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif, serif, Em=
ojiFont; font-size: 15px; margin-top: 14pt; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot=
;, sans-serif;"></span>
<li style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=
=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en=
" style=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI=
&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">Assessment methodology:</s=
pan></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-=
size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;Systematic
 analysis of attack defence impacts requires an evidence-based methodology.=
 Research will start with a survey of existing attacks and existing detecti=
on methods. The information used by each detection method from Internet pro=
tocols and other sources (such as
 endpoints) shall be identified. Further research will determine the relati=
ve effectiveness of each detection method against each attack. In doing so,=
 this research will define methodologies for detection, as known attacks ch=
ange and detection methods develop.
 These methodologies can be used to provide the basis of evidence for asses=
sment of protocol impact.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">Certificate Transparency:&nbsp;</span></u><=
/b></span></font><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12p=
t; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-seri=
f;">Certificate
 transparency can be used to spot mis-issued certificates for domains. But =
do certificate transparency logs highlight malicious domains? More research=
 is needed to determine the effectiveness of this&nbsp;technology in findin=
g malicious sites.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin:0px"=
><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:1=
2pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetic=
a Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">DMARC:</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D=
"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI=
&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">&nbsp;Implementation
 of DMARC across government correlates with the numbers of phishing emails =
claiming to be from these domains dropping dramatically. Research is needed=
 to ascertain the exact effects of implementing this protocol and to discov=
er what impact, if any, this has
 had on the behaviour of the actors behind such phishing emails.</span></fo=
nt></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-s=
erif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=
=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font=
-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">DNS=
:</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"f=
ont-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quo=
t;, sans-serif;">&nbsp;As
 protocols to encrypt DNS traffic are implemented and newly-proposed design=
s surface, existing techniques for restricting DNS lookups to blacklisted d=
omains may be impacted&nbsp;and could increase the risk from malware to a n=
etwork. The IRTF can bring together network
 operators and protocol experts to research and discover new ways to provid=
e this security as DNS traffic becomes encrypted.</span></font></span></fon=
t></li><li style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2=
" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lan=
g=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">IPv6:</span></u></b=
></span></font><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;=
 font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;=
">&nbsp;Adoption
 of IPv6 is now widespread, with statistics from 2017 indicating that 23% o=
f networks advertise IPv6 connectivity. Evidence-based research is needed t=
o establish what benefits or risks come from IPv6 adoption in terms of atta=
ck defence, and to find recommendations
 to optimise defence protections.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=
=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=
=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;,=
 &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">TLS:</span></u></b></span></font>=
<font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: &=
quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;">&nbsp;With
 a new version of TLS recently standardised, existing attack defence method=
s need to adapt as implementations begin to adopt it. This area of research=
 needs to grow quickly, with key questions such as: =93Can malware be detec=
ted when it uses&nbsp;TLS 1.3? If so, how?=94
 The IRTF is the ideal place to stimulate this thread of work, to bring tog=
ether members with protocol expertise and members with defence experience.<=
/span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Cali=
bri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><=
font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: &q=
uot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;"></span></font>=
</span></font><font size=3D"3" style=3D"color: black; font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><b><u><span styl=
e=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-se=
rif;">UDP:</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3" style=3D"color: bla=
ck; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans=
-serif;">&nbsp;Some
 firewalls and middleboxes simply block UDP, in their efforts to&nbsp;prote=
ct networks from malicious traffic&nbsp;=96 so much so that this issue was =
considered in the design of QUIC. When QUIC is standardised, UDP traffic wi=
ll only grow in volume, and it will be more
 important than ever to research techniques for detecting malicious activit=
y in encrypted&nbsp;UDP streams, enabling a better malware defence than sim=
ply blocking UDP traffic in future.</span></font></li></ul>
<font face=3D"Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif"><br>
</font>
<p style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, No=
toColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, Emoji=
Symbols; font-size: 12pt;">
</p>
</div>
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D""><font face=3D"Segoe=
 UI, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D""><font face=3D"Segoe=
 UI, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk
</body>
</html>

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To: Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: Kirsty P <Kirsty.p=40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>, "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Smart] Draft Charter For SMART Proposed RG
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From: "David McGrew (mcgrew)" <mcgrew@cisco.com>
To: Kirsty P <Kirsty.p=40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Smart] Draft Charter For SMART Proposed RG
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From: "David McGrew (mcgrew)" <mcgrew@cisco.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
CC: "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, "Kirsty.p=40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org" <Kirsty.p=40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>, Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Smart] Draft Charter For SMART Proposed RG
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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 21:31:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Smart] Draft Charter For SMART Proposed RG
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From: Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 21:18:51 -0400
Cc: Kirsty P <Kirsty.p=40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
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To: "David McGrew (mcgrew)" <mcgrew@cisco.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/smart/pRUR9jHY_0rwj4gsWtKIxvGWzuA>
Subject: Re: [Smart] Draft Charter For SMART Proposed RG
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David,

Comments below=20

Sent from my Commodore 128D

PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050

> As you suggest, endpoint security shouldn=E2=80=99t be a focus, and maybe I=
 overstated its importance.  Probably a better way to express my point is: w=
hat=E2=80=99s important to the RG is not just the privacy and security of a p=
rotocol, but rather the impact of the protocol on the overall privacy and se=
curity of the computer systems, communication systems, its users and their d=
ata. =20

I agree with this.=20

Bret=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">David,<div><br></div><div>Comments below&nb=
sp;<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D"background-color: r=
gba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Sent from my Commodore 128D</span><div><span style=3D=
"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><font class=3D"" style=3D"fo=
nt-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-nu=
meric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: nor=
mal; line-height: normal;">PGP Fingerprint:&nbsp;</font><span class=3D"" sty=
le=3D"text-align: -webkit-auto;"><font class=3D"">63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 &=
nbsp;F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050</font></span></span></div></div><div><br></div=
><blockquote type=3D"cite">

<div>As you suggest, endpoint security shouldn=E2=80=99t be a focus, and may=
be I overstated its importance. &nbsp;Probably a better way to express my po=
int is: what=E2=80=99s important to the RG is not just the privacy and secur=
ity of a protocol, but rather the impact of the protocol
 on the overall privacy and security of the computer systems, communication s=
ystems, its users and their data. &nbsp;</div></blockquote><br></div><div>I a=
gree with this.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Bret&nbsp;</div><div><br></di=
v></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-88EA701F-605C-4A58-B055-1C3E5CEC2212--


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From: Mark O <Mark.O@ncsc.gov.uk>
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Thread-Topic: When we say 'cyber'...
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Subject: [Smart] When we say 'cyber'...
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There's been some discussion on the list about what to call the main topic =
of our research. We settled on the name 'SMART' - Stopping Malware And Rese=
arching Threats - for the list because it covered a couple of our major aim=
s and made for a handy acronym. But it's not the whole of our ambition.



When we first mooted the possibility of a research group at the SAAG open m=
eeting in Montreal, we referred to 'Cyber Defence'. That's [part of] what w=
e do at the National Cyber Security Centre - we have an Active Cyber Defenc=
e<https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/active-cyber-defence> programme, aimed at improvi=
ng the resistance of UK infrastructure to cyber attacks. So the word 'cyber=
' trips easily off our tongues. It's not just us - large parts of industry =
and academia refer to 'cyber security' and 'cyber attacks', as do the media=
. But we're also aware that 'cyber' means different things to different peo=
ple, it's a buzzword, it's generic, and it can raise hackles in some. Earli=
er versions of the draft charter referred to 'cyber security', 'cyber defen=
ce', 'security operations', and the current version refers to the rather pl=
ain 'attack defence'. Hopefully without getting side-tracked - what speaks =
best to most people?



Ultimately, we don't have a strong view on what phrase is used - the import=
ant point is that it's clear and obvious what type of threats we're trying =
to defend against (without being prescriptive). So it's probably more helpf=
ul to try and build a list of the kind of threats we're meaning.



As a general theme, the threats we're considering:

  *   have malicious intent - as opposed to accidental threats (e.g. hardwa=
re failure causing data loss);
  *   involve active interference with data, users or the network - as oppo=
sed to passive wiretapping and offline attacks; and
  *   result in harm.



We probably will need to reference a taxonomy of threats, and we needn't re=
invent the wheel here - that work has been done before. ENISA has produced =
one such threat taxonomy<https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/threat-risk-man=
agement/threats-and-trends/enisa-threat-landscape/etl2015/enisa-threat-taxo=
nomy-a-tool-for-structuring-threat-information> which I've used to construc=
t the list below. This is just a starting point - there will be some things=
 I've missed off, and I certainly can't promise that we'll be able to addre=
ss all of them:

  *   Unsolicited e-mail - spam and infected e-mails; links to malicious we=
bsites
  *   Identity theft - stealing credentials
  *   Denial of service - DDoS, network and application layer, amplificatio=
n attacks
  *   Malware, worms, trojans, rootkits, injection attacks, viruses, exploi=
ts
  *   Spyware, scareware, ransomware
  *   Social engineering - phishing, spear-phishing
  *   Fake certificates, MITM, signed malware
  *   Manipulation of hardware and software
  *   Manipulation of information - hijacking, routing table manipulation, =
DNS poisoning
  *   Misuse of audit tools to discover security weaknesses
  *   Unauthorised access, network intrusion
  *   Unauthorised installation of software, web/browser-based attacks, dri=
ve-by downloads
  *   Data breach
  *   Remote execution, botnets
  *   Advanced Persistent Threats

Note that 'cyber' doesn't appear in the list once - and that's OK.



Is that what everyone's expecting? This is still up for grabs and we'd like=
 everyone to have the same, clear view of what we're trying to achieve.



-- Mark



This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk

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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">There&=
#8217;s been some discussion on the list about what to call the main topic =
of our research. We settled on the name &#8216;SMART&#8217; &#8211; Stoppin=
g Malware And Researching Threats - for the list because it
 covered a couple of our major aims and made for a handy acronym. But it&#8=
217;s not the whole of our ambition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">When w=
e first mooted the possibility of a research group at the SAAG open meeting=
 in Montreal, we referred to &#8216;Cyber Defence&#8217;. That&#8217;s [par=
t of] what we do at the National Cyber Security Centre
 &#8211; we have an <a href=3D"https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/active-cyber-defence=
">Active Cyber Defence</a> programme, aimed at improving the resistance of =
UK infrastructure to cyber attacks. So the word &#8216;cyber&#8217; trips e=
asily off our tongues. It&#8217;s not just us &#8211; large parts
 of industry and academia refer to &#8216;cyber security&#8217; and &#8216;=
cyber attacks&#8217;, as do the media. But we&#8217;re also aware that &#82=
16;cyber&#8217; means different things to different people, it&#8217;s a bu=
zzword, it&#8217;s generic, and it can raise hackles in some. Earlier versi=
ons of the
 draft charter referred to &#8216;cyber security&#8217;, &#8216;cyber defen=
ce&#8217;, &#8216;security operations&#8217;, and the current version refer=
s to the rather plain &#8216;attack defence&#8217;. Hopefully without getti=
ng side-tracked &#8211; what speaks best to most people?<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Ultima=
tely, we don&#8217;t have a strong view on what phrase is used &#8211; the =
important point is that it&#8217;s clear and obvious what type of threats w=
e&#8217;re trying to defend against (without being prescriptive).
 So it&#8217;s probably more helpful to try and build a list of the kind of=
 threats we&#8217;re meaning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">As a g=
eneral theme, the threats we&#8217;re considering:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">have malicious intent &#8211; as opposed to ac=
cidental threats (e.g. hardware failure causing data loss);</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"xmsonormal" sty=
le=3D"color:black;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"=
>involve active interference
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext">with data, users&n=
bsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">or the network &#8211; as oppos=
ed to passive wiretapping and offline attacks; and</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"col=
or:black;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:win=
dowtext">result in harm.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></li></ul>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">We pro=
bably will need to reference a taxonomy of threats, and we needn&#8217;t re=
invent the wheel here &#8211; that work has been done before. ENISA has pro=
duced one such
<a href=3D"https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/threat-risk-management/threat=
s-and-trends/enisa-threat-landscape/etl2015/enisa-threat-taxonomy-a-tool-fo=
r-structuring-threat-information">
threat taxonomy</a> which I&#8217;ve used to construct the list below. This=
 is just a starting point &#8211; there will be some things I&#8217;ve miss=
ed off, and I certainly can&#8217;t promise that we&#8217;ll be able to add=
ress all of them:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unsolicited e-mail &#8211; spam and infect=
ed e-mails; links to malicious websites<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Identity theft &#8211; stealing credential=
s<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-ma=
rgin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Denial of service &#8211; DDoS, network an=
d application layer, amplification attacks<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Malware, worms, trojans, rootkits, injecti=
on attacks, viruses, exploits<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ms=
o-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Spyware, scareware, ransomware<o:p></o:p><=
/span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:=
auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Social engineering &#8211; phishing, spear=
-phishing<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:blac=
k;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Fake certificates, MITM, signed malware<o:=
p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin=
-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Manipulation of hardware and software<o:p>=
</o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Manipulation of information &#8211; hijack=
ing, routing table manipulation, DNS poisoning<o:p></o:p></span></li><li cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-b=
ottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Misuse of audit tools to discover security=
 weaknesses<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:bl=
ack;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 l=
fo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unauthorised access, network intrusion <o:=
p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin=
-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unauthorised installation of software, web=
/browser-based attacks, drive-by downloads<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Data breach<o:p></o:p></span></li><li clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bot=
tom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Remote execution, botnets<o:p></o:p></span=
></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;=
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Advanced Persistent Threats<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></li></ul>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Note t=
hat &#8216;cyber&#8217; doesn&#8217;t appear in the list once &#8211; and t=
hat&#8217;s OK.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Is tha=
t what everyone&#8217;s expecting? This is still up for grabs and we&#8217;=
d like everyone to have the same, clear view of what we&#8217;re trying to =
achieve.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">-- Mar=
k<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk
</body>
</html>

--_000_LOXP123MB14168BB24E88B846C5055842D3EA0LOXP123MB1416GBRP_--


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In article <MMXP123MB0847BB4C2D2B7E9FB2441383D7EF0@MMXP123MB0847.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> you write:
>I promised an initial problems list that the group could be working on, so here it is! Please
>comment and/or add your own research ideas/existing projects those we've sketched out below...

This is a dandy set of questions, but do you have any actual
researchers willing to do this?

I know a fair number who as far as I know are happy with the venues
they already have.

R's,
John


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From: Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:01:52 -0400
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Cc: "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
To: Mark O <Mark.O=40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Smart] When we say 'cyber'...
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Mark,

Thanks for the email and clarification. I for one do not have a problem =
with the term cyber security or cyber defense. It is so common and well =
understood in practice from the enterprise SoC, ISAC, ISAO, and IC etc. =
I think some might take issue with the differences between:

Data Security
Information Security=20
Cyber Security

I have also looked at the ENISA work before and really like what they =
have done.  There are also a lot of taxonomy elements that are defined =
in STIX for some of these things as well.  But we should not get hung up =
on this minor stuff, we should be focused on doing the work that this =
research group needs to do.

Thanks,
Bret
PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050
"Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that =
can not be unscrambled is an egg."

> On Oct 4, 2018, at 11:44 AM, Mark O =
<Mark.O=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> =20
> There=E2=80=99s been some discussion on the list about what to call =
the main topic of our research. We settled on the name =E2=80=98SMART=E2=80=
=99 =E2=80=93 Stopping Malware And Researching Threats - for the list =
because it covered a couple of our major aims and made for a handy =
acronym. But it=E2=80=99s not the whole of our ambition.
> =20
> When we first mooted the possibility of a research group at the SAAG =
open meeting in Montreal, we referred to =E2=80=98Cyber Defence=E2=80=99. =
That=E2=80=99s [part of] what we do at the National Cyber Security =
Centre =E2=80=93 we have an Active Cyber Defence =
<https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/active-cyber-defence> programme, aimed at =
improving the resistance of UK infrastructure to cyber attacks. So the =
word =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 trips easily off our tongues. It=E2=80=99s =
not just us =E2=80=93 large parts of industry and academia refer to =
=E2=80=98cyber security=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98cyber attacks=E2=80=99, as =
do the media. But we=E2=80=99re also aware that =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 =
means different things to different people, it=E2=80=99s a buzzword, =
it=E2=80=99s generic, and it can raise hackles in some. Earlier versions =
of the draft charter referred to =E2=80=98cyber security=E2=80=99, =
=E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98security operations=E2=80=99, =
and the current version refers to the rather plain =E2=80=98attack =
defence=E2=80=99. Hopefully without getting side-tracked =E2=80=93 what =
speaks best to most people?
> =20
> Ultimately, we don=E2=80=99t have a strong view on what phrase is used =
=E2=80=93 the important point is that it=E2=80=99s clear and obvious =
what type of threats we=E2=80=99re trying to defend against (without =
being prescriptive). So it=E2=80=99s probably more helpful to try and =
build a list of the kind of threats we=E2=80=99re meaning.
> =20
> As a general theme, the threats we=E2=80=99re considering:
> have malicious intent =E2=80=93 as opposed to accidental threats (e.g. =
hardware failure causing data loss);
> involve active interference with data, users or the network =E2=80=93 =
as opposed to passive wiretapping and offline attacks; and
> result in harm.
> =20
> We probably will need to reference a taxonomy of threats, and we =
needn=E2=80=99t reinvent the wheel here =E2=80=93 that work has been =
done before. ENISA has produced one such threat taxonomy =
<https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/threat-risk-management/threats-and-tre=
nds/enisa-threat-landscape/etl2015/enisa-threat-taxonomy-a-tool-for-struct=
uring-threat-information> which I=E2=80=99ve used to construct the list =
below. This is just a starting point =E2=80=93 there will be some things =
I=E2=80=99ve missed off, and I certainly can=E2=80=99t promise that =
we=E2=80=99ll be able to address all of them:
> Unsolicited e-mail =E2=80=93 spam and infected e-mails; links to =
malicious websites
> Identity theft =E2=80=93 stealing credentials
> Denial of service =E2=80=93 DDoS, network and application layer, =
amplification attacks
> Malware, worms, trojans, rootkits, injection attacks, viruses, =
exploits
> Spyware, scareware, ransomware
> Social engineering =E2=80=93 phishing, spear-phishing
> Fake certificates, MITM, signed malware
> Manipulation of hardware and software
> Manipulation of information =E2=80=93 hijacking, routing table =
manipulation, DNS poisoning
> Misuse of audit tools to discover security weaknesses
> Unauthorised access, network intrusion=20
> Unauthorised installation of software, web/browser-based attacks, =
drive-by downloads
> Data breach
> Remote execution, botnets
> Advanced Persistent Threats
> Note that =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 doesn=E2=80=99t appear in the list =
once =E2=80=93 and that=E2=80=99s OK.
> =20
> Is that what everyone=E2=80=99s expecting? This is still up for grabs =
and we=E2=80=99d like everyone to have the same, clear view of what =
we=E2=80=99re trying to achieve.
> =20
> -- Mark
> =20
> =20
> This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 =
(FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer =
any FOIA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk =
<mailto:ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk> --=20
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org <mailto:Smart@irtf.org>
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart =
<https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Mark,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks for the email and clarification. I for one do not have =
a problem with the term cyber security or cyber defense. It is so common =
and well understood in practice from the enterprise SoC, ISAC, ISAO, and =
IC etc. I think some might take issue with the differences =
between:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Data =
Security</div><div class=3D"">Information Security&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">Cyber Security</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I have also looked at the ENISA work before and really like =
what they have done. &nbsp;There are also a lot of taxonomy elements =
that are defined in STIX for some of these things as well. &nbsp;But we =
should not get hung up on this minor stuff, we should be focused on =
doing the work that this research group needs to do.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;">Thanks,</span></div><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none;">Bret</span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: =
2;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#7c7c7c" =
face=3D"Calibre, Verdana" class=3D"" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 11px;">PGP =
Fingerprint:&nbsp;</span></font><span class=3D"" style=3D"text-align: =
-webkit-auto; font-size: 11px;"><font color=3D"#7c7c7c" face=3D"Calibre, =
Verdana" class=3D"">63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 &nbsp;F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 =
0050</font></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(124, 124, 124); font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: Calibre, Verdana; text-align: -webkit-auto;">"Without =
cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can not =
be unscrambled is an =
egg."</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></d=
iv></div>
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Oct 4, 2018, at 11:44 AM, Mark O &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Mark.O=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Mark.O=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">There=E2=80=99s been some =
discussion on the list about what to call the main topic of our =
research. We settled on the name =E2=80=98SMART=E2=80=99 =E2=80=93 =
Stopping Malware And Researching Threats - for the list because it =
covered a couple of our major aims and made for a handy acronym. But =
it=E2=80=99s not the whole of our ambition.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">When we first mooted the =
possibility of a research group at the SAAG open meeting in Montreal, we =
referred to =E2=80=98Cyber Defence=E2=80=99. That=E2=80=99s [part of] =
what we do at the National Cyber Security Centre =E2=80=93 we have =
an<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/active-cyber-defence" style=3D"color: =
rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">Active Cyber =
Defence</a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>programme, =
aimed at improving the resistance of UK infrastructure to cyber attacks. =
So the word =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 trips easily off our tongues. It=E2=80=
=99s not just us =E2=80=93 large parts of industry and academia refer to =
=E2=80=98cyber security=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98cyber attacks=E2=80=99, as =
do the media. But we=E2=80=99re also aware that =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 =
means different things to different people, it=E2=80=99s a buzzword, =
it=E2=80=99s generic, and it can raise hackles in some. Earlier versions =
of the draft charter referred to =E2=80=98cyber security=E2=80=99, =
=E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98security operations=E2=80=99, =
and the current version refers to the rather plain =E2=80=98attack =
defence=E2=80=99. Hopefully without getting side-tracked =E2=80=93 what =
speaks best to most people?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Ultimately, we =
don=E2=80=99t have a strong view on what phrase is used =E2=80=93 the =
important point is that it=E2=80=99s clear and obvious what type of =
threats we=E2=80=99re trying to defend against (without being =
prescriptive). So it=E2=80=99s probably more helpful to try and build a =
list of the kind of threats we=E2=80=99re meaning.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">As a general theme, the threats =
we=E2=80=99re considering:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><ul =
type=3D"disc" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" =
class=3D""><li class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">have malicious intent =E2=80=93 as =
opposed to accidental threats (e.g. hardware failure causing data =
loss);</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">involve active =
interference<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;" class=3D"">with data, =
users&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">or the =
network =E2=80=93 as opposed to passive wiretapping and offline attacks; =
and</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;" =
class=3D"">result in harm.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ul><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">We probably will =
need to reference a taxonomy of threats, and we needn=E2=80=99t reinvent =
the wheel here =E2=80=93 that work has been done before. ENISA has =
produced one such<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/threat-risk-management/threats-=
and-trends/enisa-threat-landscape/etl2015/enisa-threat-taxonomy-a-tool-for=
-structuring-threat-information" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">threat taxonomy</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>which I=E2=80=99ve used to =
construct the list below. This is just a starting point =E2=80=93 there =
will be some things I=E2=80=99ve missed off, and I certainly can=E2=80=99t=
 promise that we=E2=80=99ll be able to address all of them:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><ul type=3D"disc" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
0cm;" class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Unsolicited e-mail =E2=80=93 spam =
and infected e-mails; links to malicious websites<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Identity theft =
=E2=80=93 stealing credentials<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">Denial of service =E2=80=93 DDoS, network and application =
layer, amplification attacks<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">Malware, worms, trojans, rootkits, injection attacks, =
viruses, exploits<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Spyware,=
 scareware, ransomware<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">Social engineering =E2=80=93 phishing, spear-phishing<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Fake =
certificates, MITM, signed malware<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">Manipulation of hardware and software<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Manipulation of =
information =E2=80=93 hijacking, routing table manipulation, DNS =
poisoning<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Misuse =
of audit tools to discover security weaknesses<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Unauthorised =
access, network intrusion<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Unauthorised =
installation of software, web/browser-based attacks, drive-by =
downloads<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Data =
breach<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Remote =
execution, botnets<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">Advanced Persistent Threats<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></li></ul><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Note that =
=E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 doesn=E2=80=99t appear in the list once =E2=80=93 =
and that=E2=80=99s OK.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Is that what =
everyone=E2=80=99s expecting? This is still up for grabs and we=E2=80=99d =
like everyone to have the same, clear view of what we=E2=80=99re trying =
to achieve.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">-- Mark<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information =
Act 2000 (FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK information =
legislation. Refer any FOIA queries to<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, =
114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk</a><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>--<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Smart mailing list</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Smart@irtf.org" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Smart@irtf.org</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart" style=3D"color: =
rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart</a></div></blockquo=
te></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Kirsty P <Kirsty.p@ncsc.gov.uk>
To: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>, "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Smart] SMART Problems
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:56:58 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/smart/yszoo9chIYpnly1IIS72GUtzyZo>
Subject: Re: [Smart] SMART Problems
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John,


That's a fair question and one I've asked myself before starting this group=
! We've had some conversations with academics who have indicated they would=
 like to be engaged with SMART, and who have relevant and interesting resea=
rch to bring to the table. We've also seen interest from industry, who are =
keen to support and see the value in such a group in the IRTF and the probl=
ems we describe. And of course, any contacts you have are very welcome to j=
oin in the group too - the more, the merrier!


In the meantime, I'm glad to hear that you find the set of questions "dandy=
" - and I welcome your ideas for research topics to make it even dandier...


Kirsty


________________________________
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
Sent: 04 October 2018 17:59
To: smart@irtf.org
Cc: Kirsty P
Subject: Re: [Smart] SMART Problems

In article <MMXP123MB0847BB4C2D2B7E9FB2441383D7EF0@MMXP123MB0847.GBRP123.PR=
OD.OUTLOOK.COM> you write:
>I promised an initial problems list that the group could be working on, so=
 here it is! Please
>comment and/or add your own research ideas/existing projects those we've s=
ketched out below...

This is a dandy set of questions, but do you have any actual
researchers willing to do this?

I know a fair number who as far as I know are happy with the venues
they already have.

R's,
John
This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi=
n-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0,=
 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Co=
lor Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI=
 Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">John,</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">That's a fair question and one I'=
ve asked myself before starting this group!&nbsp;We've had some conversatio=
ns with academics who have indicated they would like to be engaged with SMA=
RT, and&nbsp;who have relevant and interesting
 research to bring to the table. We've also seen&nbsp;interest from industr=
y, who are keen to support and see the value in such a group in the IRTF an=
d the problems we describe. And of course, any contacts you have are very w=
elcome to join in the group too - the
 more, the merrier!</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">In the meantime,&nbsp;I'm&nbsp;gl=
ad to hear that&nbsp;you find the set of questions &quot;dandy&quot; - and =
I welcome your&nbsp;ideas for research topics to make it even dandier...</p=
>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Kirsty</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> John Levine &lt;johnl=
@iecc.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 October 2018 17:59<br>
<b>To:</b> smart@irtf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kirsty P<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Smart] SMART Problems</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;=
">
<div class=3D"PlainText">In article &lt;MMXP123MB0847BB4C2D2B7E9FB2441383D7=
EF0@MMXP123MB0847.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM&gt; you write:<br>
&gt;I promised an initial problems list that the group could be working on,=
 so here it is! Please<br>
&gt;comment and/or add your own research ideas/existing projects those we'v=
e sketched out below...<br>
<br>
This is a dandy set of questions, but do you have any actual<br>
researchers willing to do this?<br>
<br>
I know a fair number who as far as I know are happy with the venues<br>
they already have.<br>
<br>
R's,<br>
John<br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk
</body>
</html>

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From: Kirsty P <Kirsty.p@ncsc.gov.uk>
To: "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: SMART Problems
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Subject: Re: [Smart] SMART Problems
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Hi everyone,


We've heard from a few people on these initial ideas, but more discussion i=
s welcome - are there any problems we're missing and should be focusing on?


Kirsty


________________________________
From: Kirsty P
Sent: 01 October 2018 14:22
To: smart@irtf.org
Subject: SMART Problems


Hi SMART folks,


I promised an initial problems list that the group could be working on, so =
here it is! Please comment and/or add your own research ideas/existing proj=
ects those we've sketched out below...


Kirsty

  *   Assessment methodology: Systematic analysis of attack defence impacts=
 requires an evidence-based methodology. Research will start with a survey =
of existing attacks and existing detection methods. The information used by=
 each detection method from Internet protocols and other sources (such as e=
ndpoints) shall be identified. Further research will determine the relative=
 effectiveness of each detection method against each attack. In doing so, t=
his research will define methodologies for detection, as known attacks chan=
ge and detection methods develop. These methodologies can be used to provid=
e the basis of evidence for assessment of protocol impact.
  *   Certificate Transparency: Certificate transparency can be used to spo=
t mis-issued certificates for domains. But do certificate transparency logs=
 highlight malicious domains? More research is needed to determine the effe=
ctiveness of this technology in finding malicious sites.
  *   DMARC: Implementation of DMARC across government correlates with the =
numbers of phishing emails claiming to be from these domains dropping drama=
tically. Research is needed to ascertain the exact effects of implementing =
this protocol and to discover what impact, if any, this has had on the beha=
viour of the actors behind such phishing emails.
  *   DNS: As protocols to encrypt DNS traffic are implemented and newly-pr=
oposed designs surface, existing techniques for restricting DNS lookups to =
blacklisted domains may be impacted and could increase the risk from malwar=
e to a network. The IRTF can bring together network operators and protocol =
experts to research and discover new ways to provide this security as DNS t=
raffic becomes encrypted.
  *   IPv6: Adoption of IPv6 is now widespread, with statistics from 2017 i=
ndicating that 23% of networks advertise IPv6 connectivity. Evidence-based =
research is needed to establish what benefits or risks come from IPv6 adopt=
ion in terms of attack defence, and to find recommendations to optimise def=
ence protections.
  *   TLS: With a new version of TLS recently standardised, existing attack=
 defence methods need to adapt as implementations begin to adopt it. This a=
rea of research needs to grow quickly, with key questions such as: =93Can m=
alware be detected when it uses TLS 1.3? If so, how?=94 The IRTF is the ide=
al place to stimulate this thread of work, to bring together members with p=
rotocol expertise and members with defence experience.
  *   UDP: Some firewalls and middleboxes simply block UDP, in their effort=
s to protect networks from malicious traffic =96 so much so that this issue=
 was considered in the design of QUIC. When QUIC is standardised, UDP traff=
ic will only grow in volume, and it will be more important than ever to res=
earch techniques for detecting malicious activity in encrypted UDP streams,=
 enabling a better malware defence than simply blocking UDP traffic in futu=
re.



This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk

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<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Hi everyone,</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">We've heard from a few people on =
these initial ideas, but more discussion is welcome - are there any problem=
s we're missing and should be focusing on?&nbsp;</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Kirsty</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Kirsty P<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 01 October 2018 14:22<br>
<b>To:</b> smart@irtf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> SMART Problems</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1252">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, =
&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, =
&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols;">
<div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"">
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Emoj=
iFont,&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,NotoColorEmo=
ji,&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,EmojiSymbols; font=
-size:12pt; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">
<font color=3D"#212121" face=3D"wf_segoe-ui_normal, Segoe UI, Segoe WP, Tah=
oma, Arial, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont"><span style=3D"font-size:15px; fo=
nt-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">Hi SM=
ART folks</span></font><span style=3D"font-size:15px; color:rgb(33,33,33); =
font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">,</=
span></p>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"></span>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Emoj=
iFont,&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,NotoColorEmo=
ji,&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,EmojiSymbols; font=
-size:12pt; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">
<span style=3D"font-size:15px; color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:&quot;Segoe=
 UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
</span></p>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"></span>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Emoj=
iFont,&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,NotoColorEmo=
ji,&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,EmojiSymbols; font=
-size:12pt; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">
<span style=3D"font-size:15px; color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:&quot;Segoe=
 UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">I promised an initial prob=
lems list that the group could be working on, so here it is!&nbsp;Please co=
mment and/or add your own research ideas/existing projects
 those we've sketched out&nbsp;below...</span></p>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"></span>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Emoj=
iFont,&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,NotoColorEmo=
ji,&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,EmojiSymbols; font=
-size:12pt; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">
<br>
</p>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"></span>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Emoj=
iFont,&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,NotoColorEmo=
ji,&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,EmojiSymbols; font=
-size:12pt; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">
<span style=3D"font-size:15px; color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:&quot;Segoe=
 UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">Kirsty</span></p>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"></span>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Emoj=
iFont,&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,NotoColorEmo=
ji,&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,EmojiSymbols; font=
-size:12pt; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">
</p>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"></span>
<ul style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe WP&quot;,Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont; fo=
nt-size:15px; margin-top:14pt; margin-bottom:0px">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,=
sans-serif"></span>
<li style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=
=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en=
" style=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&=
quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">Assessment methodology:</span>=
</u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-ser=
if">&nbsp;Systematic
 analysis of attack defence impacts requires an evidence-based methodology.=
 Research will start with a survey of existing attacks and existing detecti=
on methods. The information used by each detection method from Internet pro=
tocols and other sources (such as
 endpoints) shall be identified. Further research will determine the relati=
ve effectiveness of each detection method against each attack. In doing so,=
 this research will define methodologies for detection, as known attacks ch=
ange and detection methods develop.
 These methodologies can be used to provide the basis of evidence for asses=
sment of protocol impact.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helve=
tica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">Certificate Transparency:&nbsp;</span></u></b><=
/span></font><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt; fo=
nt-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">Certi=
ficate
 transparency can be used to spot mis-issued certificates for domains. But =
do certificate transparency logs highlight malicious domains? More research=
 is needed to determine the effectiveness of this&nbsp;technology in findin=
g malicious sites.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin:0px"=
><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:1=
2pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica =
Neue&quot;,sans-serif">DMARC:</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3">=
<span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;=
,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;Implementation
 of DMARC across government correlates with the numbers of phishing emails =
claiming to be from these domains dropping dramatically. Research is needed=
 to ascertain the exact effects of implementing this protocol and to discov=
er what impact, if any, this has
 had on the behaviour of the actors behind such phishing emails.</span></fo=
nt></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-s=
erif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=
=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">DNS:</s=
pan></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-=
size:12pt; font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans=
-serif">&nbsp;As
 protocols to encrypt DNS traffic are implemented and newly-proposed design=
s surface, existing techniques for restricting DNS lookups to blacklisted d=
omains may be impacted&nbsp;and could increase the risk from malware to a n=
etwork. The IRTF can bring together network
 operators and protocol experts to research and discover new ways to provid=
e this security as DNS traffic becomes encrypted.</span></font></span></fon=
t></li><li style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2=
" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lan=
g=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">IPv6:</span></u></b></s=
pan></font><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt; font=
-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;A=
doption
 of IPv6 is now widespread, with statistics from 2017 indicating that 23% o=
f networks advertise IPv6 connectivity. Evidence-based research is needed t=
o establish what benefits or risks come from IPv6 adoption in terms of atta=
ck defence, and to find recommendations
 to optimise defence protections.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=
=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=
=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&=
quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">TLS:</span></u></b></span></font><fon=
t size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:&quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;With
 a new version of TLS recently standardised, existing attack defence method=
s need to adapt as implementations begin to adopt it. This area of research=
 needs to grow quickly, with key questions such as: =93Can malware be detec=
ted when it uses&nbsp;TLS 1.3? If so, how?=94
 The IRTF is the ideal place to stimulate this thread of work, to bring tog=
ether members with protocol expertise and members with defence experience.<=
/span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Cali=
bri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"black"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><=
font size=3D"3"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:&quo=
t;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif"></span></font></spa=
n></font><font size=3D"3" style=3D"color:black; font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt"><b><u><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">UDP:</spa=
n></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3" style=3D"color:black; font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:=
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;Some
 firewalls and middleboxes simply block UDP, in their efforts to&nbsp;prote=
ct networks from malicious traffic&nbsp;=96 so much so that this issue was =
considered in the design of QUIC. When QUIC is standardised, UDP traffic wi=
ll only grow in volume, and it will be more
 important than ever to research techniques for detecting malicious activit=
y in encrypted&nbsp;UDP streams, enabling a better malware defence than sim=
ply blocking UDP traffic in future.</span></font></li></ul>
<font face=3D"Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif"><br>
</font>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Emoj=
iFont,&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,NotoColorEmo=
ji,&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,EmojiSymbols; font=
-size:12pt">
</p>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D""><font face=3D"Seg=
oe UI, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D""><font face=3D"Seg=
oe UI, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk
</body>
</html>

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From: Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
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Kristy,

I think we can get academia and industry to help and contribute to this =
work.  The problem is purely PR/Marketing.  We need to raise awareness =
of this and help make sure the right groups and researchers know about =
it.

Thanks,
Bret
PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050
"Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that =
can not be unscrambled is an egg."

> On Oct 11, 2018, at 2:56 AM, Kirsty P =
<Kirsty.p=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> John,
>=20
> That's a fair question and one I've asked myself before starting this =
group! We've had some conversations with academics who have indicated =
they would like to be engaged with SMART, and who have relevant and =
interesting research to bring to the table. We've also seen interest =
from industry, who are keen to support and see the value in such a group =
in the IRTF and the problems we describe. And of course, any contacts =
you have are very welcome to join in the group too - the more, the =
merrier!
>=20
> In the meantime, I'm glad to hear that you find the set of questions =
"dandy" - and I welcome your ideas for research topics to make it even =
dandier...
>=20
> Kirsty
>=20
>=20
> From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com <mailto:johnl@iecc.com>>
> Sent: 04 October 2018 17:59
> To: smart@irtf.org <mailto:smart@irtf.org>
> Cc: Kirsty P
> Subject: Re: [Smart] SMART Problems
> =20
> In article =
<MMXP123MB0847BB4C2D2B7E9FB2441383D7EF0@MMXP123MB0847.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK=
.COM =
<mailto:MMXP123MB0847BB4C2D2B7E9FB2441383D7EF0@MMXP123MB0847.GBRP123.PROD.=
OUTLOOK.COM>> you write:
> >I promised an initial problems list that the group could be working =
on, so here it is! Please
> >comment and/or add your own research ideas/existing projects those =
we've sketched out below...
>=20
> This is a dandy set of questions, but do you have any actual
> researchers willing to do this?
>=20
> I know a fair number who as far as I know are happy with the venues
> they already have.
>=20
> R's,
> John
> This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 =
(FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer =
any FOIA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk =
<mailto:ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk> --=20
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org <mailto:Smart@irtf.org>
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart =
<https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart>

--Apple-Mail=_3AD71CE7-2B21-4D85-93E5-1151AF5FAE5D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Kristy,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
think we can get academia and industry to help and contribute to this =
work. &nbsp;The problem is purely PR/Marketing. &nbsp;We need to raise =
awareness of this and help make sure the right groups and researchers =
know about it.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;">Thanks,</span></div><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none;">Bret</span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: =
2;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#7c7c7c" =
face=3D"Calibre, Verdana" class=3D"" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 11px;">PGP =
Fingerprint:&nbsp;</span></font><span class=3D"" style=3D"text-align: =
-webkit-auto; font-size: 11px;"><font color=3D"#7c7c7c" face=3D"Calibre, =
Verdana" class=3D"">63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 &nbsp;F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 =
0050</font></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(124, 124, 124); font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: Calibre, Verdana; text-align: -webkit-auto;">"Without =
cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can not =
be unscrambled is an =
egg."</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></d=
iv></div>
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Oct 11, 2018, at 2:56 AM, Kirsty P &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Kirsty.p=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Kirsty.p=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple =
Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, =
&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" =
class=3D"">John,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">That's a fair question and one I've =
asked myself before starting this group!&nbsp;We've had some =
conversations with academics who have indicated they would like to be =
engaged with SMART, and&nbsp;who have relevant and interesting research =
to bring to the table. We've also seen&nbsp;interest from industry, who =
are keen to support and see the value in such a group in the IRTF and =
the problems we describe. And of course, any contacts you have are very =
welcome to join in the group too - the more, the merrier!</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" =
class=3D"">In the meantime,&nbsp;I'm&nbsp;glad to hear that&nbsp;you =
find the set of questions "dandy" - and I welcome your&nbsp;ideas for =
research topics to make it even dandier...</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">Kirsty</div><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div style=3D"" class=3D""><hr tabindex=3D"-1" =
style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 1228.90625px;" class=3D""><div =
id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri, =
sans-serif" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>John Levine &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:johnl@iecc.com" class=3D"">johnl@iecc.com</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>04 October 2018 17:59<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:smart@irtf.org" class=3D"">smart@irtf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Kirsty P<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Smart] SMART =
Problems</font><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div></div><div =
class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D"PlainText">In =
article &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:MMXP123MB0847BB4C2D2B7E9FB2441383D7EF0@MMXP123MB0847.GBRP12=
3.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM" =
class=3D"">MMXP123MB0847BB4C2D2B7E9FB2441383D7EF0@MMXP123MB0847.GBRP123.PR=
OD.OUTLOOK.COM</a>&gt; you write:<br class=3D"">&gt;I promised an =
initial problems list that the group could be working on, so here it is! =
Please<br class=3D"">&gt;comment and/or add your own research =
ideas/existing projects those we've sketched out below...<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">This is a dandy set of questions, but do you =
have any actual<br class=3D"">researchers willing to do this?<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I know a fair number who as far as I know are =
happy with the venues<br class=3D"">they already have.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">R's,<br class=3D"">John<br =
class=3D""></div></span></font></div></div></div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">This information is exempt under =
the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) and may be exempt under other =
UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA queries to<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk</a><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">--<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Smart mailing list</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
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font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
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start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Smart@irtf.org</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
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href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart" style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
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te></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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	charset=utf-8

Kristy,

Zero Trust, Borderless Networks, Firewall-less networks (Google=E2=80=99s =
BeyondCorp), LTE5, Direct-to-net / Direct-to-Telco, Employee owned =
devices, SDN, TLS1.3, DOH + DNSSEC, QUIC, Cloud Services, MicroServices, =
etc are going to collectively wreck havoc with traditional network =
defense. By themselves they are all manageable and great additions to =
the performance, management, security, and privacy of the network, =
however, when you start connecting all of these technologies together as =
a single solution, it is going to pose some serious challenges.

In a past life we had a saying that  =E2=80=9Cendpoints, operating =
systems, and software can all be made to lie, but the network never =
does. At some point the traffic has to flow over the network=E2=80=9D.  =
So making sure we understand the risks associated with assuming that all =
security can be done on the endpoint, would be good.=20

Understanding the risks of overlay protocols. What happens if =
organizations, ISPs, Telcos, start wrapping some of our secure protocols =
with less secure protocols to make them work across their networks.=20


Thanks,
Bret
PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050
"Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that =
can not be unscrambled is an egg."

> On Oct 11, 2018, at 2:58 AM, Kirsty P =
<Kirsty.p=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hi everyone,
>=20
> We've heard from a few people on these initial ideas, but more =
discussion is welcome - are there any problems we're missing and should =
be focusing on?=20
>=20
> Kirsty
>=20
>=20
> From: Kirsty P
> Sent: 01 October 2018 14:22
> To: smart@irtf.org <mailto:smart@irtf.org>
> Subject: SMART Problems
> =20
> Hi SMART folks,
>=20
> I promised an initial problems list that the group could be working =
on, so here it is! Please comment and/or add your own research =
ideas/existing projects those we've sketched out below...
>=20
> Kirsty
> Assessment methodology: Systematic analysis of attack defence impacts =
requires an evidence-based methodology. Research will start with a =
survey of existing attacks and existing detection methods. The =
information used by each detection method from Internet protocols and =
other sources (such as endpoints) shall be identified. Further research =
will determine the relative effectiveness of each detection method =
against each attack. In doing so, this research will define =
methodologies for detection, as known attacks change and detection =
methods develop. These methodologies can be used to provide the basis of =
evidence for assessment of protocol impact.
> Certificate Transparency: Certificate transparency can be used to spot =
mis-issued certificates for domains. But do certificate transparency =
logs highlight malicious domains? More research is needed to determine =
the effectiveness of this technology in finding malicious sites.
> DMARC: Implementation of DMARC across government correlates with the =
numbers of phishing emails claiming to be from these domains dropping =
dramatically. Research is needed to ascertain the exact effects of =
implementing this protocol and to discover what impact, if any, this has =
had on the behaviour of the actors behind such phishing emails.
> DNS: As protocols to encrypt DNS traffic are implemented and =
newly-proposed designs surface, existing techniques for restricting DNS =
lookups to blacklisted domains may be impacted and could increase the =
risk from malware to a network. The IRTF can bring together network =
operators and protocol experts to research and discover new ways to =
provide this security as DNS traffic becomes encrypted.
> IPv6: Adoption of IPv6 is now widespread, with statistics from 2017 =
indicating that 23% of networks advertise IPv6 connectivity. =
Evidence-based research is needed to establish what benefits or risks =
come from IPv6 adoption in terms of attack defence, and to find =
recommendations to optimise defence protections.
> TLS: With a new version of TLS recently standardised, existing attack =
defence methods need to adapt as implementations begin to adopt it. This =
area of research needs to grow quickly, with key questions such as: =
=E2=80=9CCan malware be detected when it uses TLS 1.3? If so, how?=E2=80=9D=
 The IRTF is the ideal place to stimulate this thread of work, to bring =
together members with protocol expertise and members with defence =
experience.
> UDP: Some firewalls and middleboxes simply block UDP, in their efforts =
to protect networks from malicious traffic =E2=80=93 so much so that =
this issue was considered in the design of QUIC. When QUIC is =
standardised, UDP traffic will only grow in volume, and it will be more =
important than ever to research techniques for detecting malicious =
activity in encrypted UDP streams, enabling a better malware defence =
than simply blocking UDP traffic in future.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 =
(FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer =
any FOIA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk =
<mailto:ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk> --=20
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org <mailto:Smart@irtf.org>
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart =
<https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart>

--Apple-Mail=_863FBE37-8132-4BEF-886A-BE705BB7EAC8
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Kristy,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Zero Trust, Borderless Networks, Firewall-less networks =
(Google=E2=80=99s BeyondCorp), LTE5, Direct-to-net / Direct-to-Telco, =
Employee owned devices, SDN, TLS1.3, DOH +&nbsp;DNSSEC, QUIC, Cloud =
Services, MicroServices, etc are going to collectively wreck havoc with =
traditional&nbsp;network defense. By themselves they are all manageable =
and great additions to the performance, management, security, and =
privacy of the network, however, when you start connecting all =
of&nbsp;these technologies together as a single solution, it is going to =
pose some serious challenges.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">In a past life we had a saying that =
&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cendpoints, operating systems, and software can all be =
made to lie, but the network never does. At some point the traffic has =
to flow over the network=E2=80=9D. &nbsp;So making sure we understand =
the risks associated with assuming that all security can be done on the =
endpoint, would be good.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Understanding the risks of overlay =
protocols. What happens if organizations, ISPs, Telcos, start wrapping =
some of our secure protocols with less secure protocols to make them =
work across their networks.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;">Thanks,</span></div><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none;">Bret</span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: =
2;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#7c7c7c" =
face=3D"Calibre, Verdana" class=3D"" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 11px;">PGP =
Fingerprint:&nbsp;</span></font><span class=3D"" style=3D"text-align: =
-webkit-auto; font-size: 11px;"><font color=3D"#7c7c7c" face=3D"Calibre, =
Verdana" class=3D"">63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 &nbsp;F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 =
0050</font></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(124, 124, 124); font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: Calibre, Verdana; text-align: -webkit-auto;">"Without =
cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can not =
be unscrambled is an =
egg."</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></d=
iv></div>
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Oct 11, 2018, at 2:58 AM, Kirsty P &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Kirsty.p=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Kirsty.p=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple =
Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, =
&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Hi everyone,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">We've heard =
from a few people on these initial ideas, but more discussion is welcome =
- are there any problems we're missing and should be focusing =
on?&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">Kirsty</div><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div style=3D"" class=3D""><hr tabindex=3D"-1" =
style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 1228.90625px;" class=3D""><div =
id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri, =
sans-serif" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Kirsty P<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>01 =
October 2018 14:22<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:smart@irtf.org" class=3D"">smart@irtf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>SMART Problems</font><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple =
Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, =
&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols;" =
class=3D""><div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, =
Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, =
&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, =
&quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols; font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#212121" face=3D"wf_segoe-ui_normal, Segoe UI, =
Segoe WP, Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 15px; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi SMART =
folks</span></font><span style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: rgb(33, 33, =
33); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">,</span></div><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D""></span><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple =
Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, =
&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols; =
font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: =
rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica =
Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></div><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, =
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""></span><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, =
EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, =
NotoColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, =
EmojiSymbols; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
15px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I promised an =
initial problems list that the group could be working on, so here it =
is!&nbsp;Please comment and/or add your own research ideas/existing =
projects those we've sketched out&nbsp;below...</span></div><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, =
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""></span><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, =
EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, =
NotoColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, =
EmojiSymbols; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, =
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""></span><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, =
EmojiFont, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, =
NotoColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, =
EmojiSymbols; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
15px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Kirsty</span></div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe =
UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D""></span><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, &quot;Apple =
Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, =
&quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols; =
font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""></p><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe =
UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D""></span><ul style=3D"color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: =
wf_segoe-ui_normal, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe WP&quot;, Tahoma, =
Arial, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont; font-size: 15px; margin-top: 14pt; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe =
UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D""></span><li =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" =
size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><font =
size=3D"3" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><u class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Assessment methodology:</span></u></b></span></font><font =
size=3D"3" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;Systematic analysis of attack defence =
impacts requires an evidence-based methodology. Research will start with =
a survey of existing attacks and existing detection methods. The =
information used by each detection method from Internet protocols and =
other sources (such as endpoints) shall be identified. Further research =
will determine the relative effectiveness of each detection method =
against each attack. In doing so, this research will define =
methodologies for detection, as known attacks change and detection =
methods develop. These methodologies can be used to provide the basis of =
evidence for assessment of protocol =
impact.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><font size=3D"3" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><u =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Certificate =
Transparency:&nbsp;</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Certificate transparency can be used to spot mis-issued =
certificates for domains. But do certificate transparency logs highlight =
malicious domains? More research is needed to determine the =
effectiveness of this&nbsp;technology in finding malicious =
sites.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><font size=3D"3" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><u =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">DMARC:</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;Implementation of DMARC across government correlates =
with the numbers of phishing emails claiming to be from these domains =
dropping dramatically. Research is needed to ascertain the exact effects =
of implementing this protocol and to discover what impact, if any, this =
has had on the behaviour of the actors behind such phishing =
emails.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><font size=3D"3" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><u =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">DNS:</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;As protocols to encrypt DNS traffic are implemented and =
newly-proposed designs surface, existing techniques for restricting DNS =
lookups to blacklisted domains may be impacted&nbsp;and could increase =
the risk from malware to a network. The IRTF can bring together network =
operators and protocol experts to research and discover new ways to =
provide this security as DNS traffic becomes =
encrypted.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><font size=3D"3" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><u =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">IPv6:</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;Adoption of IPv6 is now widespread, with statistics =
from 2017 indicating that 23% of networks advertise IPv6 connectivity. =
Evidence-based research is needed to establish what benefits or risks =
come from IPv6 adoption in terms of attack defence, and to find =
recommendations to optimise defence =
protections.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><font size=3D"3" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><u =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">TLS:</span></u></b></span></font><font size=3D"3" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;With a new version of TLS recently standardised, =
existing attack defence methods need to adapt as implementations begin =
to adopt it. This area of research needs to grow quickly, with key =
questions such as: =E2=80=9CCan malware be detected when it =
uses&nbsp;TLS 1.3? If so, how?=E2=80=9D The IRTF is the ideal place to =
stimulate this thread of work, to bring together members with protocol =
expertise and members with defence =
experience.</span></font></span></font></li><li style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><font size=3D"3" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""></span></font></span></font><font size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" =
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Date: 11 Oct 2018 12:18:13 -0400
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From: "John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
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Subject: Re: [Smart] Who's doing the work for SMART ?
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>  I think we can get academia and industry to help and contribute to this
>  work.  The problem is purely PR/Marketing.  We need to raise awareness of
>  this and help make sure the right groups and researchers know about it.

Having been the chair of the late not very lamented ASRG, I have to report 
that getting outside people to put their work into an RG is very 
difficult. Academics will ask if it counts as publishing?  (No.) Industry 
will ask whether this will lead to products and what about the patent 
implications (don't ask.)

I think it's fine to try to spin up this RG, but if we don't have 
identified people who are doing the work, it's not going to be any more 
successful than ASRG was.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly


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Hi John,

To your point, we=E2=80=99re already thinking about running a CARIS 2 worksh=
op.  CARIS had about 50 participants and was very interesting as it brought t=
ogether a group that had never been in the room together.  This collaboratio=
n could lead to new detection methods by combining data and resources with d=
ifferent points of view.  Submissions would be required again and would hope=
fully seed the work for a future research group.

We have try this out for a bit and then can make assessments as to the produ=
ctivity of the potential group.  I think it=E2=80=99s much more helpful to s=
tart with optimism to generate interest and participation and hopefully with=
 a new angle that makes this effort compelling to researchers (cross collabo=
ration and possibly other ideas).

Best regards,
Kathleen=20

Sent from my mobile device

On Oct 11, 2018, at 12:18 PM, John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

>> I think we can get academia and industry to help and contribute to this
>> work.  The problem is purely PR/Marketing.  We need to raise awareness of=

>> this and help make sure the right groups and researchers know about it.
>=20
> Having been the chair of the late not very lamented ASRG, I have to report=
 that getting outside people to put their work into an RG is very difficult.=
 Academics will ask if it counts as publishing?  (No.) Industry will ask whe=
ther this will lead to products and what about the patent implications (don'=
t ask.)
>=20
> I think it's fine to try to spin up this RG, but if we don't have identifi=
ed people who are doing the work, it's not going to be any more successful t=
han ASRG was.
>=20
> Regards,
> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dumm=
ies",
> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
>=20
> --=20
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart


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To: Mark O <Mark.O=40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Smart] When we say 'cyber'...
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/smart/sBynnx-JtDeYBQKtDZmj2O_yVa0>
Subject: Re: [Smart] When we say 'cyber'...
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Hello all,

I am normally lurking on this list but I would personally stay somewhat a=
t arms length from =E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99. There is a delta in u=
nderstanding between how technologists, policy makers, and diplomates use=
 and understand the term _cyber security_ and in my experience the delta =
may be bigger for the words _cyber defence_.



=E2=80=94Olaf Kolkman




On 4 Oct 2018, at 17:44, Mark O wrote:

> There's been some discussion on the list about what to call the main to=
pic of our research. We settled on the name 'SMART' - Stopping Malware An=
d Researching Threats - for the list because it covered a couple of our m=
ajor aims and made for a handy acronym. But it's not the whole of our amb=
ition.
>
>
>
> When we first mooted the possibility of a research group at the SAAG op=
en meeting in Montreal, we referred to 'Cyber Defence'. That's [part of] =
what we do at the National Cyber Security Centre - we have an Active Cybe=
r Defence<https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/active-cyber-defence> programme, aimed =
at improving the resistance of UK infrastructure to cyber attacks. So the=
 word 'cyber' trips easily off our tongues. It's not just us - large part=
s of industry and academia refer to 'cyber security' and 'cyber attacks',=
 as do the media.. But we're also aware that 'cyber' means different thin=
gs to different people, it's a buzzword, it's generic, and it can raise h=
ackles in some. Earlier versions of the draft charter referred to 'cyber =
security', 'cyber defence', 'security operations', and the current versio=
n refers to the rather plain 'attack defence'. Hopefully without getting =
side-tracked - what speaks best to most people?
>
>
>
> Ultimately, we don't have a strong view on what phrase is used - the im=
portant point is that it's clear and obvious what type of threats we're t=
rying to defend against (without being prescriptive). So it's probably mo=
re helpful to try and build a list of the kind of threats we're meaning.
>
>
>
> As a general theme, the threats we're considering:
>
>   *   have malicious intent - as opposed to accidental threats (e.g. ha=
rdware failure causing data loss);
>   *   involve active interference with data, users or the network - as =
opposed to passive wiretapping and offline attacks; and
>   *   result in harm.
>
>
>
> We probably will need to reference a taxonomy of threats, and we needn'=
t reinvent the wheel here - that work has been done before. ENISA has pro=
duced one such threat taxonomy<https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/threat-=
risk-management/threats-and-trends/enisa-threat-landscape/etl2015/enisa-t=
hreat-taxonomy-a-tool-for-structuring-threat-information> which I've used=
 to construct the list below. This is just a starting point - there will =
be some things I've missed off, and I certainly can't promise that we'll =
be able to address all of them:
>
>   *   Unsolicited e-mail - spam and infected e-mails; links to maliciou=
s websites
>   *   Identity theft - stealing credentials
>   *   Denial of service - DDoS, network and application layer, amplific=
ation attacks
>   *   Malware, worms, trojans, rootkits, injection attacks, viruses, ex=
ploits
>   *   Spyware, scareware, ransomware
>   *   Social engineering - phishing, spear-phishing
>   *   Fake certificates, MITM, signed malware
>   *   Manipulation of hardware and software
>   *   Manipulation of information - hijacking, routing table manipulati=
on, DNS poisoning
>   *   Misuse of audit tools to discover security weaknesses
>   *   Unauthorised access, network intrusion
>   *   Unauthorised installation of software, web/browser-based attacks,=
 drive-by downloads
>   *   Data breach
>   *   Remote execution, botnets
>   *   Advanced Persistent Threats
>
> Note that 'cyber' doesn't appear in the list once - and that's OK.
>
>
>
> Is that what everyone's expecting? This is still up for grabs and we'd =
like everyone to have the same, clear view of what we're trying to achiev=
e.
>
>
>
> -- Mark
>
>
>
> This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (F=
OIA) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any =
FOIA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk


> -- =

> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart

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<div class=3D"markdown">
<p dir=3D"auto">Hello all,</p>

<p dir=3D"auto">I am normally lurking on this list but I would personally=
 stay somewhat at arms length from =E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99. There=
 is a delta in understanding between how technologists, policy makers, an=
d diplomates use and understand the term <em>cyber security</em> and in m=
y experience the delta may be bigger for the words <em>cyber defence</em>=
=2E</p>

<p dir=3D"auto">=E2=80=94Olaf Kolkman</p>

<p dir=3D"auto">On 4 Oct 2018, at 17:44, Mark O wrote:</p>

</div>
<div class=3D"plaintext"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"embedded"><style scoped></style>

<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Ther=
e&#8217;s been some discussion on the list about what to call the main to=
pic of our research. We settled on the name &#8216;SMART&#8217; &#8211; S=
topping Malware And Researching Threats - for the list because it
 covered a couple of our major aims and made for a handy acronym. But it&=
#8217;s not the whole of our ambition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">When=
 we first mooted the possibility of a research group at the SAAG open mee=
ting in Montreal, we referred to &#8216;Cyber Defence&#8217;. That&#8217;=
s [part of] what we do at the National Cyber Security Centre
 &#8211; we have an <a href=3D"https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/active-cyber-defen=
ce">Active Cyber Defence</a> programme, aimed at improving the resistance=
 of UK infrastructure to cyber attacks. So the word &#8216;cyber&#8217; t=
rips easily off our tongues. It&#8217;s not just us &#8211; large parts
 of industry and academia refer to &#8216;cyber security&#8217; and &#821=
6;cyber attacks&#8217;, as do the media. But we&#8217;re also aware that =
&#8216;cyber&#8217; means different things to different people, it&#8217;=
s a buzzword, it&#8217;s generic, and it can raise hackles in some. Earli=
er versions of the
 draft charter referred to &#8216;cyber security&#8217;, &#8216;cyber def=
ence&#8217;, &#8216;security operations&#8217;, and the current version r=
efers to the rather plain &#8216;attack defence&#8217;. Hopefully without=
 getting side-tracked &#8211; what speaks best to most people?<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Ulti=
mately, we don&#8217;t have a strong view on what phrase is used &#8211; =
the important point is that it&#8217;s clear and obvious what type of thr=
eats we&#8217;re trying to defend against (without being prescriptive).
 So it&#8217;s probably more helpful to try and build a list of the kind =
of threats we&#8217;re meaning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">As a=
 general theme, the threats we&#8217;re considering:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">have malicious intent &#8211; as opposed t=
o accidental threats (e.g. hardware failure causing data loss);</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"xmsonor=
mal" style=3D"color:black;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.0pt">involve active interference
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext">with data, users=
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">or the network &#8211; as o=
pposed to passive wiretapping and offline attacks; and</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D=
"color:black;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;col=
or:windowtext">result in harm.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:=
p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">We p=
robably will need to reference a taxonomy of threats, and we needn&#8217;=
t reinvent the wheel here &#8211; that work has been done before. ENISA h=
as produced one such
<a href=3D"https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/threat-risk-management/thre=
ats-and-trends/enisa-threat-landscape/etl2015/enisa-threat-taxonomy-a-too=
l-for-structuring-threat-information">
threat taxonomy</a> which I&#8217;ve used to construct the list below. Th=
is is just a starting point &#8211; there will be some things I&#8217;ve =
missed off, and I certainly can&#8217;t promise that we&#8217;ll be able =
to address all of them:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unsolicited e-mail &#8211; spam and infe=
cted e-mails; links to malicious websites<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Identity theft &#8211; stealing credenti=
als<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;ms=
o-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"=
>
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Denial of service &#8211; DDoS, network =
and application layer, amplification attacks<o:p></o:p></span></li><li cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin=
-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Malware, worms, trojans, rootkits, injec=
tion attacks, viruses, exploits<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:a=
uto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Spyware, scareware, ransomware<o:p></o:p=
></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-=
alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Social engineering &#8211; phishing, spe=
ar-phishing<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:=
black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Fake certificates, MITM, signed malware<=
o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-ma=
rgin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Manipulation of hardware and software<o:=
p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-marg=
in-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Manipulation of information &#8211; hija=
cking, routing table manipulation, DNS poisoning<o:p></o:p></span></li><l=
i class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Misuse of audit tools to discover securi=
ty weaknesses<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"colo=
r:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 le=
vel1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unauthorised access, network intrusion <=
o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-ma=
rgin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unauthorised installation of software, w=
eb/browser-based attacks, drive-by downloads<o:p></o:p></span></li><li cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin=
-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Data breach<o:p></o:p></span></li><li cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin=
-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Remote execution, botnets<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:a=
uto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Advanced Persistent Threats<o:p></o:p></=
span></li></ul>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Note=
 that &#8216;cyber&#8217; doesn&#8217;t appear in the list once &#8211; a=
nd that&#8217;s OK.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Is t=
hat what everyone&#8217;s expecting? This is still up for grabs and we&#8=
217;d like everyone to have the same, clear view of what we&#8217;re tryi=
ng to achieve.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">-- M=
ark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOI=
A) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FO=
IA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk
</div></blockquote>
<div class=3D"markdown">
<blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote><p dir=3D"auto">-- <br>
Smart mailing list<br>
Smart@irtf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart">https://www.irtf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/smart</a></p>
</blockquote></div>
<div class=3D"markdown">
</div>

</body>
</html>

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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:43:47 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Smart] When we say 'cyber'...
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On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:59 AM Olaf Kolkman <kolkman@isoc.org> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I am normally lurking on this list but I would personally stay somewhat a=
t
> arms length from =E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99. There is a delta in und=
erstanding between
> how technologists, policy makers, and diplomates use and understand the
> term *cyber security* and in my experience the delta may be bigger for
> the words *cyber defence*.
>

Thanks, Olaf.  I agree and have been trying to watch how others use the
word cyber and am not coming up with any special meaning yet that make it
distinct as a useful term.  If there is something that makes it distinct,
hearing it would be good to know.  I also tried tweeting (@KathleeMoriarty)
this to see how people define it, but haven't gotten many responses and
none that are convincing yet.  If someone has one please post.

Thank you,
Kathleen

> =E2=80=94Olaf Kolkman
>
> On 4 Oct 2018, at 17:44, Mark O wrote:
>
>
>
> There=E2=80=99s been some discussion on the list about what to call the m=
ain topic
> of our research. We settled on the name =E2=80=98SMART=E2=80=99 =E2=80=93=
 Stopping Malware And
> Researching Threats - for the list because it covered a couple of our maj=
or
> aims and made for a handy acronym. But it=E2=80=99s not the whole of our =
ambition.
>
>
>
> When we first mooted the possibility of a research group at the SAAG open
> meeting in Montreal, we referred to =E2=80=98Cyber Defence=E2=80=99. That=
=E2=80=99s [part of] what
> we do at the National Cyber Security Centre =E2=80=93 we have an Active C=
yber
> Defence <https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/active-cyber-defence> programme, aimed
> at improving the resistance of UK infrastructure to cyber attacks. So the
> word =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 trips easily off our tongues. It=E2=80=99s n=
ot just us =E2=80=93 large parts
> of industry and academia refer to =E2=80=98cyber security=E2=80=99 and =
=E2=80=98cyber attacks=E2=80=99, as
> do the media. But we=E2=80=99re also aware that =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 m=
eans different things to
> different people, it=E2=80=99s a buzzword, it=E2=80=99s generic, and it c=
an raise hackles
> in some. Earlier versions of the draft charter referred to =E2=80=98cyber
> security=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98security ope=
rations=E2=80=99, and the current version
> refers to the rather plain =E2=80=98attack defence=E2=80=99. Hopefully wi=
thout getting
> side-tracked =E2=80=93 what speaks best to most people?
>
>
>
> Ultimately, we don=E2=80=99t have a strong view on what phrase is used =
=E2=80=93 the
> important point is that it=E2=80=99s clear and obvious what type of threa=
ts we=E2=80=99re
> trying to defend against (without being prescriptive). So it=E2=80=99s pr=
obably
> more helpful to try and build a list of the kind of threats we=E2=80=99re=
 meaning.
>
>
>
> As a general theme, the threats we=E2=80=99re considering:
>
>    - have malicious intent =E2=80=93 as opposed to accidental threats (e.=
g.
>    hardware failure causing data loss);
>    - involve active interference with data, users or the network =E2=80=
=93 as
>    opposed to passive wiretapping and offline attacks; and
>    - result in harm.
>
>
>
> We probably will need to reference a taxonomy of threats, and we needn=E2=
=80=99t
> reinvent the wheel here =E2=80=93 that work has been done before. ENISA h=
as
> produced one such threat taxonomy
> <https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/threat-risk-management/threats-and-tr=
ends/enisa-threat-landscape/etl2015/enisa-threat-taxonomy-a-tool-for-struct=
uring-threat-information>
> which I=E2=80=99ve used to construct the list below. This is just a start=
ing point
> =E2=80=93 there will be some things I=E2=80=99ve missed off, and I certai=
nly can=E2=80=99t promise
> that we=E2=80=99ll be able to address all of them:
>
>    - Unsolicited e-mail =E2=80=93 spam and infected e-mails; links to mal=
icious
>    websites
>    - Identity theft =E2=80=93 stealing credentials
>    - Denial of service =E2=80=93 DDoS, network and application layer,
>    amplification attacks
>    - Malware, worms, trojans, rootkits, injection attacks, viruses,
>    exploits
>    - Spyware, scareware, ransomware
>    - Social engineering =E2=80=93 phishing, spear-phishing
>    - Fake certificates, MITM, signed malware
>    - Manipulation of hardware and software
>    - Manipulation of information =E2=80=93 hijacking, routing table manip=
ulation,
>    DNS poisoning
>    - Misuse of audit tools to discover security weaknesses
>    - Unauthorised access, network intrusion
>    - Unauthorised installation of software, web/browser-based attacks,
>    drive-by downloads
>    - Data breach
>    - Remote execution, botnets
>    - Advanced Persistent Threats
>
> Note that =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 doesn=E2=80=99t appear in the list once=
 =E2=80=93 and that=E2=80=99s OK.
>
>
>
> Is that what everyone=E2=80=99s expecting? This is still up for grabs and=
 we=E2=80=99d
> like everyone to have the same, clear view of what we=E2=80=99re trying t=
o achieve.
>
>
>
> -- Mark
>
>
>
>
> This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
> (FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer an=
y
> FOIA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk
>
> --
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart
>
> --
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart
>


--=20

Best regards,
Kathleen

--000000000000e4b14d05789519c9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri=
, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:59 AM Olaf Kolkman &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kolkman@isoc.o=
rg">kolkman@isoc.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><u></u>





<div>
<div class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565markdown">
<p dir=3D"auto">Hello all,</p>

<p dir=3D"auto">I am normally lurking on this list but I would personally s=
tay somewhat at arms length from =E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99. There is =
a delta in understanding between how technologists, policy makers, and dipl=
omates use and understand the term <em>cyber security</em> and in my experi=
ence the delta may be bigger for the words <em>cyber defence</em>.</p></div=
></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks, Olaf.=C2=A0 I agree and hav=
e been trying to watch how others use the word cyber and am not coming up w=
ith any special meaning yet that make it distinct as a useful term.=C2=A0 I=
f there is something that makes it distinct, hearing it would be good to kn=
ow.=C2=A0 I also tried tweeting (@KathleeMoriarty) this to see how people d=
efine it, but haven&#39;t gotten many responses and none that are convincin=
g yet.=C2=A0 If someone has one please post.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank=
 you,</div><div>Kathleen</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div clas=
s=3D"m_-2240247759212898565markdown">

<p dir=3D"auto">=E2=80=94Olaf Kolkman</p>

<p dir=3D"auto">On 4 Oct 2018, at 17:44, Mark O wrote:</p>

</div>
<div class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565plaintext"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565embedded">

<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565WordSection1">
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">There=E2=80=99s been some discussion on the list about what=
 to call the main topic of our research. We settled on the name =E2=80=98SM=
ART=E2=80=99 =E2=80=93 Stopping Malware And Researching Threats - for the l=
ist because it
 covered a couple of our major aims and made for a handy acronym. But it=E2=
=80=99s not the whole of our ambition.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">When we first mooted the possibility of a research group at=
 the SAAG open meeting in Montreal, we referred to =E2=80=98Cyber Defence=
=E2=80=99. That=E2=80=99s [part of] what we do at the National Cyber Securi=
ty Centre
 =E2=80=93 we have an <a href=3D"https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/active-cyber-defen=
ce" target=3D"_blank">Active Cyber Defence</a> programme, aimed at improvin=
g the resistance of UK infrastructure to cyber attacks. So the word =E2=80=
=98cyber=E2=80=99 trips easily off our tongues. It=E2=80=99s not just us =
=E2=80=93 large parts
 of industry and academia refer to =E2=80=98cyber security=E2=80=99 and =E2=
=80=98cyber attacks=E2=80=99, as do the media. But we=E2=80=99re also aware=
 that =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 means different things to different people, i=
t=E2=80=99s a buzzword, it=E2=80=99s generic, and it can raise hackles in s=
ome. Earlier versions of the
 draft charter referred to =E2=80=98cyber security=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98cyber=
 defence=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98security operations=E2=80=99, and the current v=
ersion refers to the rather plain =E2=80=98attack defence=E2=80=99. Hopeful=
ly without getting side-tracked =E2=80=93 what speaks best to most people?<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">Ultimately, we don=E2=80=99t have a strong view on what phr=
ase is used =E2=80=93 the important point is that it=E2=80=99s clear and ob=
vious what type of threats we=E2=80=99re trying to defend against (without =
being prescriptive).
 So it=E2=80=99s probably more helpful to try and build a list of the kind =
of threats we=E2=80=99re meaning.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">As a general theme, the threats we=E2=80=99re considering:<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal" style=3D"color:black"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">have malicious intent =E2=80=93 as opposed to ac=
cidental threats (e.g. hardware failure causing data loss);</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"m_-224024775=
9212898565xmsonormal" style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt=
">involve active interference
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext">with data, users=
=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">or the network =E2=80=93 as o=
pposed to passive wiretapping and offline attacks; and</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"m_-22402477592128=
98565xmsonormal" style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;colo=
r:windowtext">result in harm.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u=
><u></u></span></li></ul>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">=
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">We probably will need to reference a taxonomy of threats, a=
nd we needn=E2=80=99t reinvent the wheel here =E2=80=93 that work has been =
done before. ENISA has produced one such
<a href=3D"https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/threat-risk-management/threat=
s-and-trends/enisa-threat-landscape/etl2015/enisa-threat-taxonomy-a-tool-fo=
r-structuring-threat-information" target=3D"_blank">
threat taxonomy</a> which I=E2=80=99ve used to construct the list below. Th=
is is just a starting point =E2=80=93 there will be some things I=E2=80=99v=
e missed off, and I certainly can=E2=80=99t promise that we=E2=80=99ll be a=
ble to address all of them:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unsolicited e-mail =E2=80=93 spam and infe=
cted e-mails; links to malicious websites<u></u><u></u></span></li><li clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Identity theft =E2=80=93 stealing credenti=
als<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Denial of service =E2=80=93 DDoS, network =
and application layer, amplification attacks<u></u><u></u></span></li><li c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Malware, worms, trojans, rootkits, injecti=
on attacks, viruses, exploits<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Spyware, scareware, ransomware<u></u><u></=
u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Social engineering =E2=80=93 phishing, spe=
ar-phishing<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color=
:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Fake certificates, MITM, signed malware<u>=
</u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Manipulation of hardware and software<u></=
u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Manipulation of information =E2=80=93 hija=
cking, routing table manipulation, DNS poisoning<u></u><u></u></span></li><=
li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Misuse of audit tools to discover security=
 weaknesses<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color=
:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unauthorised access, network intrusion <u>=
</u><u></u></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Unauthorised installation of software, web=
/browser-based attacks, drive-by downloads<u></u><u></u></span></li><li cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Data breach<u></u><u></u></span></li><li c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Remote execution, botnets<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Advanced Persistent Threats<u></u><u></u><=
/span></li></ul>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">Note that =E2=80=98cyber=E2=80=99 doesn=E2=80=99t appear in=
 the list once =E2=80=93 and that=E2=80=99s OK.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">Is that what everyone=E2=80=99s expecting? This is still up=
 for grabs and we=E2=80=99d like everyone to have the same, clear view of w=
hat we=E2=80=99re trying to achieve.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black">-- Mark<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to <a href=3D"mailto:ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk" target=3D"_blank">ncsc=
infoleg@ncsc.gov.uk</a>
</div></blockquote>
<div class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565markdown">
<blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote><p dir=3D"auto">-- <br>
Smart mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Smart@irtf.org" target=3D"_blank">Smart@irtf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart</a></p>
</blockquote></div>
<div class=3D"m_-2240247759212898565markdown">
</div>

</div>

-- <br>
Smart mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Smart@irtf.org" target=3D"_blank">Smart@irtf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div></div></div></div>

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Subject: Re: [Smart] When we say 'cyber'...
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Olaf, et al.,

I do not discount that there is some vagueness within and across some =
groups when they use the term Cyber Security or Cyber Defense.  I get =
it.  But we also know that it is highly used and generally well =
understood and accepted in the industry. In fact, NIST has produced a =
very popular and widely deployed framework called the =E2=80=9CCybersecuri=
ty Framework=E2=80=9D [1].  ENISA also uses this term throughout their =
policy and strategy documents [2]. The ITU uses it [3] and nearly every =
Fortune 2000 company uses it.  It seems like not using it here is just =
swimming up stream.=20

What we do know for sure, is that Cyber Security references a concept =
that is more than just:

1) Data Security=20
2) Information Security
3) Physical Security in relation to electronic assets
4) Network Security
5) Server and System Security
6) Host based Security
7) Endpoint Security
8) Protocol Security


Perhaps one of the line items of this research group should be to come =
up with a great definition of Cyber Security and Cyber Defense that can =
be accepted by the IETF / IRTF. Or we could just use one of the NIST / =
ENISA / UK NCSC / ITU etc. definitions.  There is a good blog post =
(though it could be better) at: =
http://www.cisoplatform.com/profiles/blogs/understanding-difference-betwee=
n-cyber-security-information =
<http://www.cisoplatform.com/profiles/blogs/understanding-difference-betwe=
en-cyber-security-information> that everyone should read.



[1] https://www.nist.gov/cyberframework =
<https://www.nist.gov/cyberframework>
[2] =
https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/national-cyber-security-strategies =
<https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/national-cyber-security-strategies>
[3] https://www.itu.int/en/action/cybersecurity/Pages/default.aspx =
<https://www.itu.int/en/action/cybersecurity/Pages/default.aspx>




Thanks,
Bret
PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050
"Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that =
can not be unscrambled is an egg."

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 5:58 AM, Olaf Kolkman <kolkman@isoc.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hello all,
>=20
> I am normally lurking on this list but I would personally stay =
somewhat at arms length from =E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99. There is a =
delta in understanding between how technologists, policy makers, and =
diplomates use and understand the term cyber security and in my =
experience the delta may be bigger for the words cyber defence.
>=20
> =E2=80=94Olaf Kolkman
>=20
> On 4 Oct 2018, at 17:44, Mark O wrote:
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_5E799426-D965-4F97-BC35-27DF5714B6E2
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Olaf, et al.,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I do not discount that there is some vagueness within and =
across some groups when they use the term Cyber Security or Cyber =
Defense. &nbsp;I get it. &nbsp;But we also know that it is highly used =
and generally well understood and accepted in the industry. In fact, =
NIST has produced a very popular and widely deployed framework called =
the =E2=80=9CCybersecurity Framework=E2=80=9D [1]. &nbsp;ENISA also uses =
this term throughout their policy and strategy documents [2]. The ITU =
uses it [3] and nearly every Fortune 2000 company uses it. &nbsp;It =
seems like not using it here is just swimming up stream.&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">What we do know for =
sure, is that Cyber Security references a concept that is more than =
just:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1) Data =
Security&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">2) Information Security</div><div =
class=3D"">3) Physical Security in relation to electronic =
assets</div><div class=3D"">4) Network Security</div><div class=3D"">5) =
Server and System Security</div><div class=3D"">6) Host based =
Security</div><div class=3D"">7) Endpoint Security</div><div class=3D"">8)=
 Protocol Security</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Perhaps one of the line =
items of this research group should be to come up with a great =
definition of Cyber Security and Cyber Defense that can be accepted by =
the IETF / IRTF. Or we could just use one of the NIST / ENISA / UK NCSC =
/ ITU etc. definitions. &nbsp;There is a good blog post (though it could =
be better) at:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.cisoplatform.com/profiles/blogs/understanding-differenc=
e-between-cyber-security-information" =
class=3D"">http://www.cisoplatform.com/profiles/blogs/understanding-differ=
ence-between-cyber-security-information</a>&nbsp;that everyone should =
read.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">[1]&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.nist.gov/cyberframework" =
class=3D"">https://www.nist.gov/cyberframework</a></div><div =
class=3D"">[2]&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/national-cyber-security-strateg=
ies" =
class=3D"">https://www.enisa.europa.eu/topics/national-cyber-security-stra=
tegies</a></div><div class=3D"">[3]&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.itu.int/en/action/cybersecurity/Pages/default.aspx" =
class=3D"">https://www.itu.int/en/action/cybersecurity/Pages/default.aspx<=
/a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;">Thanks,</span></div><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2; font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none;">Bret</span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: =
2;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#7c7c7c" =
face=3D"Calibre, Verdana" class=3D"" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 11px;">PGP =
Fingerprint:&nbsp;</span></font><span class=3D"" style=3D"text-align: =
-webkit-auto; font-size: 11px;"><font color=3D"#7c7c7c" face=3D"Calibre, =
Verdana" class=3D"">63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 &nbsp;F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 =
0050</font></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(124, 124, 124); font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: Calibre, Verdana; text-align: -webkit-auto;">"Without =
cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can not =
be unscrambled is an =
egg."</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></d=
iv></div>
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Oct 19, 2018, at 5:58 AM, Olaf Kolkman &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kolkman@isoc.org" class=3D"">kolkman@isoc.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"markdown" style=3D"white-space: normal; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><p =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Hello all,</p><p dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I am =
normally lurking on this list but I would personally stay somewhat at =
arms length from =E2=80=98cyber defence=E2=80=99. There is a delta in =
understanding between how technologists, policy makers, and diplomates =
use and understand the term<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em class=3D"">cyber =
security</em><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>and in =
my experience the delta may be bigger for the words<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em class=3D"">cyber =
defence</em>.</p><p dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">=E2=80=94Olaf Kolkman</p><p =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">On 4 Oct 2018, at 17:44, Mark O =
wrote:</p></div><div class=3D"plaintext" style=3D"white-space: normal; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: Mark O <Mark.O@ncsc.gov.uk>
To: "smart@irtf.org" <smart@irtf.org>
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Subject: [Smart] SMART side-meeting at IETF 103
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The SMART (Stopping Malware And Researching Threats) proposed RG will hold =
a planning meeting at IETF 103 in Bangkok. This is a side-meeting and not o=
fficially on the IETF agenda, however anyone with an interest in contributi=
ng to the proposed RG is welcome to attend.

Agenda:
Discussion of aims of SMART
Relationship with other existing/proposed WGs/RGs
CARIS2 workshop call for submissions
Charter discussion
First year goals

The meeting will take place at 18:15-19:15 on Thursday 8th November in the =
Pagoda Room (4th Floor). Afterwards we may move to a bar, venue TBA!





This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The SMART (Stopping Malware And Researching Threats)=
 proposed RG will hold a planning meeting at IETF 103 in Bangkok. This is a=
 side-meeting and not officially on the IETF agenda, however anyone with an=
 interest in contributing to the proposed
 RG is welcome to attend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Agenda:<br>
Discussion of aims of SMART<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Relationship with other existing/proposed WGs/RGs<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">CARIS2 workshop call for submissions<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Charter discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First year goals<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The meeting will take place at 18:15-19:15 on Thursd=
ay 8<sup>th</sup> November in the Pagoda Room (4<sup>th</sup> Floor). After=
wards we may move to a bar, venue TBA!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)=
 and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q=
ueries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk
</body>
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Subject: Re: [Smart] SMART side-meeting at IETF 103
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I might get up early and Meetecho, Zoom, Skype, or otherwise pop in =
remotely if someone is willing to setup the facilities for such.

> On Oct 29, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark O =
<Mark.O=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> The SMART (Stopping Malware And Researching Threats) proposed RG will =
hold a planning meeting at IETF 103 in Bangkok. This is a side-meeting =
and not officially on the IETF agenda, however anyone with an interest =
in contributing to the proposed RG is welcome to attend.
>=20
> Agenda:
> Discussion of aims of SMART
> Relationship with other existing/proposed WGs/RGs
> CARIS2 workshop call for submissions
> Charter discussion
> First year goals
>=20
> The meeting will take place at 18:15-19:15 on Thursday 8th November in =
the Pagoda Room (4th Floor). Afterwards we may move to a bar, venue TBA!
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 =
(FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer =
any FOIA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk =
<mailto:ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk> --
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org <mailto:Smart@irtf.org>
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart =
<https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">I might get up early and Meetecho, Zoom, Skype, or otherwise =
pop in remotely if someone is willing to setup the facilities for =
such.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Oct 29, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark O &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Mark.O=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Mark.O=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">The SMART (Stopping Malware And Researching Threats) proposed =
RG will hold a planning meeting at IETF 103 in Bangkok. This is a =
side-meeting and not officially on the IETF agenda, however anyone with =
an interest in contributing to the proposed RG is welcome to attend.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Agenda:<br =
class=3D"">Discussion of aims of SMART<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Relationship with other =
existing/proposed WGs/RGs<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">CARIS2 workshop call for submissions<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Charter =
discussion<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">First year goals<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The meeting will take place at =
18:15-19:15 on Thursday 8<sup class=3D"">th</sup><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>November in the Pagoda Room =
(4<sup class=3D"">th</sup><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Floor). Afterwards we may =
move to a bar, venue TBA!<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">This information is exempt under =
the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) and may be exempt under other =
UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA queries to<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, =
114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
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text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk</a><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>--<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Smart mailing list</span><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Smart@irtf.org" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Smart@irtf.org</a><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart" style=3D"color: =
rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart</a></div></blockquo=
te></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 23:33:44 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Smart] SMART side-meeting at IETF 103
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We'll figure out what is possible and share with the list.  Thanks for
poking on that Eric.

Best,
Kathleen

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 9:02 PM Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com>
wrote:

> I might get up early and Meetecho, Zoom, Skype, or otherwise pop in
> remotely if someone is willing to setup the facilities for such.
>
> On Oct 29, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark O <Mark.O=40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>
> wrote:
>
> The SMART (Stopping Malware And Researching Threats) proposed RG will hold
> a planning meeting at IETF 103 in Bangkok. This is a side-meeting and not
> officially on the IETF agenda, however anyone with an interest in
> contributing to the proposed RG is welcome to attend.
>
> Agenda:
> Discussion of aims of SMART
> Relationship with other existing/proposed WGs/RGs
> CARIS2 workshop call for submissions
> Charter discussion
> First year goals
>
> The meeting will take place at 18:15-19:15 on Thursday 8th November in
> the Pagoda Room (4th Floor). Afterwards we may move to a bar, venue TBA!
>
>
>
>
>
> This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
> (FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any
> FOIA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk --
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart
>
>
> --
> Smart mailing list
> Smart@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart
>


-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen

--0000000000001d3edb0579921887
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">We&#39;ll figure out what is possible and share with the l=
ist.=C2=A0 Thanks for poking on that Eric.<div><br></div><div>Best,</div><d=
iv>Kathleen</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On W=
ed, Oct 31, 2018 at 9:02 PM Eric Burger &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eburger@stand=
ardstrack.com">eburger@standardstrack.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">I might get up ea=
rly and Meetecho, Zoom, Skype, or otherwise pop in remotely if someone is w=
illing to setup the facilities for such.<div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite"><div>On Oct 29, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark O &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Mark.O=
=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Mark.O=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@d=
marc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-173376118587806277Apple-i=
nterchange-newline"><div><div class=3D"m_-173376118587806277WordSection1" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant=
-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text=
-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if">The SMART (Stopping Malware And Researching Threats) proposed RG will h=
old a planning meeting at IETF 103 in Bangkok. This is a side-meeting and n=
ot officially on the IETF agenda, however anyone with an interest in contri=
buting to the proposed RG is welcome to attend.<u></u><u></u></div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size=
:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Agenda:<br>Discussion of aims of SMAR=
T<u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Relationship with other existing/proposed WG=
s/RGs<u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11=
pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">CARIS2 workshop call for submissions<u><=
/u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif">Charter discussion<u></u><u></u></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=
First year goals<u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif">The meeting will take place at 18:15-19:15 on Thursday 8<sup>th</sup=
><span class=3D"m_-173376118587806277Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>No=
vember in the Pagoda Room (4<sup>th</sup><span class=3D"m_-1733761185878062=
77Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>Floor). Afterwards we may move to a b=
ar, venue TBA!<u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;fon=
t-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><div =
style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size=
:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div></div><span=
 style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;te=
xt-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float=
:none;display:inline!important">This information is exempt under the Freedo=
m of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK informati=
on legislation. Refer any FOIA queries to<span class=3D"m_-1733761185878062=
77Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"mailto:ncscinfoleg@=
ncsc.gov.uk" style=3D"color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline;font-=
family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;=
font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;t=
ext-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target=3D"_blank">n=
cscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk</a><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12=
px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spa=
cing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-spac=
e:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"><span class=
=3D"m_-173376118587806277Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>--<span class=
=3D"m_-173376118587806277Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><br sty=
le=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-c=
aps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-i=
ndent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-=
caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:no=
ne;display:inline!important">Smart mailing list</span><br style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fon=
t-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text=
-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href=3D"mailto:Smar=
t@irtf.org" style=3D"color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline;font-f=
amily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;f=
ont-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;te=
xt-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target=3D"_blank">Sm=
art@irtf.org</a><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-styl=
e:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;=
text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wor=
d-spacing:0px"><a href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart" styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;=
font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:norma=
l;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:non=
e;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target=3D"_blank">https://www.irtf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/smart</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>-- <b=
r>
Smart mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Smart@irtf.org" target=3D"_blank">Smart@irtf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div></div></div>

--0000000000001d3edb0579921887--

