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From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 16:57:27 +0900
References: <D7A0423E5E193F40BE6E94126930C49307C4CFBE5F@MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov>
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Subject: [smartpowerdir] Fwd: Announcement of the NISTIR 7622
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FYI

This is something the IETF should review, IMHO

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Swanson, Marianne" <marianne.swanson@nist.gov>
> Date: September 3, 2010 5:08:08 AM GMT+09:00
> To: Multiple recipients of list <csctg@nist.gov>
> Subject: Announcement of the NISTIR 7622
> Reply-To: csctg@nist.gov
>=20
> Everyone =96
> =20
> I am pleased to announce that the Final NISTIR 7622, =93Guidelines for =
Smart Grid Cyber Security=94 is now available for download from the NIST =
Computer Security Division website at the following URL:
> =20
> http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/PubsNISTIRs.html#NIST-IR-7628
> =20
> Having come in at the tail end of the document=92s development, I =
cannot take any credit; but I can express my appreciation to everyone =
and especially to Annabelle Lee for a job well done. Thank you all for =
making my first five weeks on this project quite memorable!!
> =20
> Marianne Swanson
> Senior Advisor for Information System Security
> National Institute of Standards and Technology
> 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8930
> Gaithersburg, MD  20899-8930
> Tel: (301-975-3293)
> marianne.swanson@nist.gov
> =20


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">FYI<div><br></div><div>This is something the IETF should review, =
IMHO<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">"Swanson, Marianne" =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:marianne.swanson@nist.gov">marianne.swanson@nist.gov</a>&gt=
;<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;">September 3, 2010 5:08:08 AM =
GMT+09:00<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>To: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;">Multiple recipients of list &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:csctg@nist.gov">csctg@nist.gov</a>&gt;<br></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Announcement of =
the NISTIR 7622</b><br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>Reply-To: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:csctg@nist.gov">csctg@nist.gov</a><br></span></div><br><o:s=
marttagtype namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
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namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"PlaceType">
<o:smarttagtype =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">

<div class=3D"Section1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Everyone =96<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">I am pleased to announce that the Final NISTIR 7622, =
=93Guidelines
for Smart Grid Cyber Security=94 is now available for download from the
NIST Computer Security Division website at the following =
URL:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"><a =
href=3D"http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/PubsNISTIRs.html#NIST-IR-7628">h=
ttp://csrc.nist.gov/publications/PubsNISTIRs.html#NIST-IR-7628</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Having come in at the tail end of the document=92s
development, I cannot take any credit; but I can express my appreciation =
to
everyone and especially to Annabelle Lee for a job well done. Thank you =
all for
making my first five weeks on this project quite memorable!! =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Marianne Swanson</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Senior Advisor for Information System =
Security</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font =
size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">National <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:placetype =
w:st=3D"on">Institute</st1:placetype>
 of <st1:placename w:st=3D"on">Standards</st1:placename></st1:place> and
Technology</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><st1:street =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">100 Bureau =
Drive</span></font></st1:address></st1:street><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">, Stop =
8930</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:city w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Gaithersburg</span></font></s=
t1:city><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">, <st1:state =
w:st=3D"on">MD</st1:state>&nbsp; <st1:postalcode =
w:st=3D"on">20899-8930</st1:postalcode></span></font></st1:place><o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Tel: (301-975-3293)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"><a =
href=3D"mailto:marianne.swanson@nist.gov">marianne.swanson@nist.gov</a></s=
pan></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>


=
</o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:sm=
arttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote=
></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 03:36:28 +0900
References: <OF6D0B1BEA.3EA9D2EA-ON85257797.005E3015-85257797.005FA391@aep.com>
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Subject: [smartpowerdir] Fwd: CSWG Architecture review task for PAP01
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Somebody care to tell me how best to incorporate this comment into =
draft-baker-ietf-core?=20

Begin forwarded message:

> From: ngreenfield@aep.com
> Date: September 8, 2010 2:38:45 AM GMT+09:00
> To: Multiple recipients of list <csctgarchi@nist.gov>
> Subject: Re: CSWG Architecture review task for PAP01
> Reply-To: csctgarchi@nist.gov
>=20
>=20
> Okay.  I've copied Fred as well.  =46rom my role within AEP as the =
Cyber Security Systems Engineering and Architecture Team Lead for AEP's =
smart grid initiative, I have some issues with the direction this is =
leading.=20
>=20
> I've read and reviewed the draft IETF document.  My main issue with =
the discussion on security architecture is that people only think about =
the technology involved.  The technology discussion is really an issue =
that is TACTICAL in nature.  Security is less about the technology and =
more about the process.  What needs to be provided for is a security =
architecture that is STRATEGIC and HOLISTIC.  What I don't see are any =
provisions for addressing security processes, which could easily be =
provided for by using a "Systems Engineering" methodology for cyber =
security.  My recommendation is to use SSE-CMM (ISO/IEC 21827).  Please =
note:  Systems Engineering incorporates architecture work.  =20
>=20
> If you look at a typical utility's internal environment, you can =
divide it up 5 areas, which can then be matched to the various security =
systems engineering needs:=20
>=20
>  =20
>=20
> On the security architecture perspective, I still advocate the use of =
SABSA as a baseline measure of what needs to be included when discussing =
security architecture and the smart grid.  SABSA can work in conjunction =
with TOGAF, which I believe is what the SGIP SGAC has settled on - =
Sandy, correct me if I'm wrong.=20
>=20
> It sounds like what is being requested is more of a checklist approach =
and what is needed is really a holistic approach.  I'll use SABSA for my =
example.  SABSA, in defining a security architecture, asks the following =
questions:=20
> Are the smart grid requirements understood?
> What is the design philosophy of the smart grid?
> Are all smart grid components identified and accounted for?
> Do the smart grid components work together?
> When the components are assembled as a system, is it an integrated =
smart grid system?
> Is there evidence provided to assure the smart grid system is properly =
assembled?
> Does the smart grid system run smoothly?
> Is the smart grid system tuned properly?
> Is the smart grid system being operated correctly?
> How is the smart grid system being maintained?
>=20
> If you look at the SABSA model, there are six different views of =
security architecture.  They are:=20
> The Smart Grid Business View --------------> Contextual Security =
Architecture
> The Smart Grid Architect's View -----------> Conceptual Security =
Architecture
> The Smart Grid Designer's View ------------> Logical Security =
Architecture
> The Smart Grid Builder's View -------------> Physical Security =
Architecture
> The Smart Grid Tradesman's View -----------> Component Security =
Architecture
> The Smart Grid Facilities Manager's View --> Operational Security =
Architecture
>=20
> Since what the NIST SGIP is trying to do is to provide a baseline =
approach to interoperability and cyber security for the smart grid, I =
would approach this entire topic using a project management methodology, =
somewhat along the lines of the PDIM, Plan-Design-Implement-Manage =
method.  I don't think this is being done right now.  =46rom a SSE-CMM =
perspective, there are the following high-level major phases of work =
that need to be reviewed:=20
> Security Risk Assessment       =20
> Discover Information Protection Needs
> Define System Security Requirements
> Define System Security Architecture
> Develop Detailed Security Design
> Implement System Security
> Assess Security Effectiveness
>=20
> To date, we have not really provided a security architecture for the =
smart grid, which was really outside of our NIST defined scope.  It's =
more of an interface to interface design and not a systems security =
architecture for end-to-end effectiveness.  The framework provided for =
by the SABSA model would allow for a more holistic approach to ensuring =
that the smart grid is protected from any number of threats and =
vulnerabilities.  =20
>=20
> Neil=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> Sandy Bacik <sandybacik@enernex.com>=20
> Sent by: csctgarchi@nist.gov
> 09/06/10 01:34 PM
> Please respond to
> csctgarchi@nist.gov
>=20
> To
> Multiple recipients of list <csctgarchi@nist.gov>
> cc
> Subject
> CSWG Architecture review task for PAP01
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Good day everyone,=20
>  =20
> I have a task for us to do. Fred Baker is working on the SGIP PAP01, a =
communications architecture to support the SGAC's business architecture. =
He would like comments on how it relates to the NISTIR and our thoughts =
on security. You can read the current version in =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baker-ietf-core-07#section-2. You can =
either respond to me and I will forward the comments onto Fred or you =
can email Fred (fred@CISCO.COM) directly with your comments. Because =
PAP01 is meeting in St. Louis, the comments need to be back by Friday, =
September 10, 2010.=20
>  =20
> =46rom Fred=92s perspective, the security angle of a communications =
architecture has several major components:
> in anything resembling a public network, such as the HAN or NAN, it is =
important to know that communicants using network bandwidth are =
authorized participants in the network. IEEE 802.1X+EAP-TLS, as proposed =
in Zigbee SEP 2.0, is a reasonable response to that.
> in any network, AAA issues are important. In IP networks, we can =
discuss IPsec (transport or tunnel mode, basically authorizing systems =
to communicate with optional encryption) or TLS and its cousins =
(authorizing applications to communicate, with optional encryption)
> if data is relayed end to end through intermediaries, one needs to =
understand why the intermediaries are trusted. That might mean =
signatures on data elements that are relayed (think DKIM, RFC 5585, W3C =
XML signatures, or what has been proposed in routing as described by RFC =
2154 or SBGP). If the intermediary is part of a distributed application =
as as such summarizes downstream information, it is its own data =
source/sink as well.
> people will hack into any network. Smart Grid Meters, for example, can =
be hacked into by using their firmware download
> capabilities to download attack firmware. Part of the question is how =
to detect compromised systems and exclude them from the flow of data, =
preventing them from injecting it and not routing other data through =
them.
>  =20
> If there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.=20
>  =20
> Regards,=20
> Sandy Bacik, CISSP, ISSMP, CISM, CGEIT=20
> Principal Consultant, EnerNex=20
> sandy.bacik@enernex.com | (C) 865-696-4470 | www.enernex.com=20
> 620 Mabry Hood Road, Suite 300 | Knoxville, TN 37932=20
>  =20
>  =20
>  =20


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Somebody care to tell me how best to incorporate this comment into =
draft-baker-ietf-core?&nbsp;<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded =
message:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>From: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:ngreenfield@aep.com">ngreenfield@aep.com</a><br></span></di=
v><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">September 8, 2010 =
2:38:45 AM GMT+09:00<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>To: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;">Multiple recipients of list &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:csctgarchi@nist.gov">csctgarchi@nist.gov</a>&gt;<br></span>=
</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: CSWG =
Architecture review task for PAP01</b><br></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Reply-To: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:csctgarchi@nist.gov">csctgarchi@nist.gov</a><br></span></di=
v><br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Okay. &nbsp;I've copied Fred as =
well.
&nbsp;=46rom my role within AEP as the Cyber Security Systems =
Engineering
and Architecture Team Lead for AEP's smart grid initiative, I have some
issues with the direction this is leading.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">I've read and reviewed the =
draft IETF
document. &nbsp;My main issue with the discussion on security =
architecture
is that people only think about the technology involved. &nbsp;The =
technology
discussion is really an issue that is TACTICAL in nature. &nbsp;Security
is less about the technology and more about the process. &nbsp;What =
needs
to be provided for is a security architecture that is STRATEGIC and =
HOLISTIC.
&nbsp;What I don't see are any provisions for addressing security =
processes,
which could easily be provided for by using a "Systems Engineering"
methodology for cyber security. &nbsp;My recommendation is to use =
SSE-CMM
(ISO/IEC 21827). &nbsp;<b>Please note: &nbsp;Systems Engineering =
incorporates
architecture work</b>. &nbsp;</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">If you look at a typical =
utility's internal
environment, you can divide it up 5 areas, which can then be matched to
the various security systems engineering needs:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&nbsp;</font><img =
id=3D"d94e4514-ed8e-4ea2-9b05-57cc5acbe737" height=3D"341" width=3D"421" =
apple-width=3D"yes" apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:_1_079D34F4079D3260005FA21185257797">
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">On the security architecture =
perspective,
I still advocate the use of SABSA as a baseline measure of what needs to
be included when discussing security architecture and the smart grid. =
&nbsp;SABSA
can work in conjunction with TOGAF, which I believe is what the SGIP =
SGAC
has settled on - Sandy, correct me if I'm wrong.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">It sounds like what is being =
requested
is more of a checklist approach and what is needed is really a holistic
approach. &nbsp;I'll use SABSA for my example. &nbsp;SABSA, in defining
a security architecture, asks the following questions:</font>
<br>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Are the smart grid requirements =
understood?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">What is the design =
philosophy of the
smart grid?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Are all smart grid =
components identified
and accounted for?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Do the smart grid =
components work together?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">When the components are =
assembled as
a system, is it an integrated smart grid system?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Is there evidence provided =
to assure
the smart grid system is properly assembled?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Does the smart grid system =
run smoothly?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Is the smart grid system =
tuned properly?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Is the smart grid system =
being operated
correctly?</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">How is the smart grid =
system being maintained?</font></li></ul>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">If you look at the SABSA model, =
there
are six different views of security architecture. &nbsp;They are:</font>
<br>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">The Smart Grid Business View =
--------------&gt;
Contextual Security Architecture</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">The Smart Grid Architect's =
View -----------&gt;
Conceptual Security Architecture</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">The Smart Grid Designer's =
View ------------&gt;
Logical Security Architecture</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">The Smart Grid Builder's =
View -------------&gt;
Physical Security Architecture</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">The Smart Grid Tradesman's =
View -----------&gt;
Component Security Architecture</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">The Smart Grid Facilities =
Manager's
View --&gt; Operational Security Architecture</font></li></ul>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Since what the NIST SGIP is =
trying to
do is to provide a baseline approach to interoperability and cyber =
security
for the smart grid, I would approach this entire topic using a project
management methodology, somewhat along the lines of the PDIM, =
Plan-Design-Implement-Manage
method. &nbsp;I don't think this is being done right now. &nbsp;=46rom a
SSE-CMM perspective, there are the following high-level major phases of
work that need to be reviewed:</font>
<br>
<ol>
<li value=3D"1"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Security Risk =
Assessment &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font>
</li><li value=3D"2"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Discover =
Information Protection
Needs</font>
</li><li value=3D"3"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Define System =
Security Requirements</font>
</li><li value=3D"4"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Define System =
Security Architecture</font>
</li><li value=3D"5"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Develop =
Detailed Security Design</font>
</li><li value=3D"6"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Implement =
System Security</font>
</li><li value=3D"7"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Assess =
Security Effectiveness</font></li></ol>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">To date, we have not really =
provided
a security architecture for the smart grid, which was really outside of
our NIST defined scope. &nbsp;It's more of an interface to interface =
design
and not a systems security architecture for end-to-end effectiveness. =
&nbsp;The
framework provided for by the SABSA model would allow for a more =
holistic
approach to ensuring that the smart grid is protected from any number of
threats and vulnerabilities. &nbsp;</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Neil </font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
</font><img id=3D"5a511534-3f94-4d7c-ad4f-2b18f4df67e5" height=3D"217" =
width=3D"529" apple-width=3D"yes" apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:_1_079D4C30079D49DC005FA21185257797">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D"100%">
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td width=3D"40%"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Sandy Bacik =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sandybacik@enernex.com">sandybacik@enernex.com</a>&gt;</b>
</font>
<br><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">Sent by: <a =
href=3D"mailto:csctgarchi@nist.gov">csctgarchi@nist.gov</a></font><p><font=
 size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">09/06/10 01:34 PM</font>
<table border=3D"">
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td bgcolor=3D"white">
<div align=3D"center"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">Please =
respond to<br>
<a =
href=3D"mailto:csctgarchi@nist.gov">csctgarchi@nist.gov</a></font></div></=
td></tr></tbody></table>
<br>
</p></td><td width=3D"59%">
<table width=3D"100%">
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
</td><td><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">Multiple recipients of =
list &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:csctgarchi@nist.gov">csctgarchi@nist.gov</a>&gt;</font>
</td></tr><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
</td><td>
</td></tr><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
<div align=3D"right"><font size=3D"1" =
face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
</td><td><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">CSWG Architecture review =
task for PAP01</font></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br>
<table>
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top">
<td>
</td><td></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Good day everyone, </font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">I have a task for us to do. Fred =
Baker is
working on the SGIP PAP01, a communications architecture to support the
SGAC's business architecture. He would like comments on how it relates
to the NISTIR and our thoughts on security. You can read the current =
version
in </font><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baker-ietf-core-07#section-2"><fo=
nt size=3D"2" color=3D"blue" =
face=3D"Arial"><u>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baker-ietf-core-07#sect=
ion-2</u></font></a><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">.
You can either respond to me and I will forward the comments onto Fred
or you can email Fred (<a =
href=3D"mailto:fred@CISCO.COM">fred@CISCO.COM</a>) directly with your =
comments. Because
PAP01 is meeting in St. Louis, the comments need to be back by Friday,
September 10, 2010. </font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">=46rom Fred=92s perspective, the =
security angle
of a communications architecture has several major components:</font>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">in anything resembling a public =
network,
such as the HAN or NAN, it is important to know that communicants using
network bandwidth are authorized participants in the network. IEEE =
802.1X+EAP-TLS,
as proposed in Zigbee SEP 2.0, is a reasonable response to that.</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">in any network, AAA issues are =
important.
In IP networks, we can discuss IPsec (transport or tunnel mode, =
basically
authorizing systems to communicate with optional encryption) or TLS and
its cousins (authorizing applications to communicate, with optional =
encryption)</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">if data is relayed end to end =
through intermediaries,
one needs to understand why the intermediaries are trusted. That might
mean signatures on data elements that are relayed (think DKIM, RFC 5585,
W3C XML signatures, or what has been proposed in routing as described by
RFC 2154 or SBGP). If the intermediary is part of a distributed =
application
as as such summarizes downstream information, it is its own data =
source/sink
as well.</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">people will hack into any =
network. Smart
Grid Meters, for example, can be hacked into by using their firmware =
download</font>
</li><li><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">capabilities to download attack =
firmware.
Part of the question is how to detect compromised systems and exclude =
them
from the flow of data, preventing them from injecting it and not routing
other data through them.</font></li></ul><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">If there are any questions, please =
do not
hesitate to contact me.</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Regards,</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Sandy Bacik, CISSP, ISSMP, CISM, =
CGEIT</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Principal Consultant, EnerNex</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><a =
href=3D"mailto:sandy.bacik@enernex.com">sandy.bacik@enernex.com</a> | =
(C) 865-696-4470
| </font><a href=3D"http://www.enernex.com/"><font size=3D"2" =
color=3D"blue" face=3D"Arial"><u>www.enernex.com</u></font></a>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">620 Mabry Hood Road, Suite 300 | =
Knoxville,
TN 37932</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font>
<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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From hartmans@painless-security.com  Tue Sep  7 13:20:53 2010
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>>>>> "Fred" == Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com> writes:

    Fred> Somebody care to tell me how best to incorporate this comment
    Fred> into draft-baker-ietf-core?

I don't think it's the IETF's place to recommend a system engineering
methodology.
As best I read the comment he's saying either:

1) What you say about security technologies is fine

2) You should say nothing about security technologies

and then he's arguing what process you should recommend.

We as a subset of the IETF should only say things that are in the IETF's
scope.  I'd read this comment as a commen that you seem to have
succeeded in doing what you set out to do but that he wishes you had
chosen to do something different.  You probably don't want to make that
change in direction, so I'd indicate you've considered the comment but
disagree that sort of direction shift would be appropriate for something
coming from the IETF.

From fred@cisco.com  Tue Sep  7 13:53:12 2010
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From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 05:53:22 +0900
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On Sep 8, 2010, at 5:21 AM, Sam Hartman wrote:

>>>>>> "Fred" == Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com> writes:
> 
>    Fred> Somebody care to tell me how best to incorporate this comment
>    Fred> into draft-baker-ietf-core?
> 
> I don't think it's the IETF's place to recommend a system engineering
> methodology.
> As best I read the comment he's saying either:
> 
> 1) What you say about security technologies is fine
> 
> 2) You should say nothing about security technologies
> 
> and then he's arguing what process you should recommend.
> 
> We as a subset of the IETF should only say things that are in the IETF's
> scope.  I'd read this comment as a commen that you seem to have
> succeeded in doing what you set out to do but that he wishes you had
> chosen to do something different.  You probably don't want to make that
> change in direction, so I'd indicate you've considered the comment but
> disagree that sort of direction shift would be appropriate for something
> coming from the IETF.

Thanks.
