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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'speechsc@ietf.org'" <speechsc@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:01:47 -0500 
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Subject: [Speechsc] Alternatives to SIP?
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In the introduction (chap 1) it is stated that MRCPv2 builds upon a session
management protocol SUCH as SIP. We should clarify if other protocols can be
used. From my understanding it depends on SIP.

Also in the introduction video stream processing resources are mentioned. I
think we can strike this, because the current spec does not handle video at
all.

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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: speechsc@ietf.org
Cc: "'sarvi@cisco.com'" <sarvi@cisco.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:43:27 -0500 
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Subject: [Speechsc] draft-ietf-speechsc-mrcpv2-02.txt
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Throughout the spec the references to the reference documents are out =
of
sync.
Starting in chap. 1, where the VoiceXML spec is referenced via [7] =
instead
of [8].
In =A711.5 [21] is referenced, which is missing in the list of =
referenced
documents of =A713.

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From: "Dave Burke" <david.burke@voxpilot.com>
To: "Sarvi Shanmugham" <sarvi@cisco.com>
Cc: "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)" <speechsc@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:27:51 +0100
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Subject: [Speechsc] Proposal for HTTP State Management (cookies) in MRCP
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi, Sarvi.

Attached is a proposal for handling cookies in MRCPv2. The text is =
intended for addition to Section 6.1 ("Generic Message Headers"). Thanks =
to Jeff for giving the proposal a "once over".

- Dave

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, Sarvi.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Attached is a proposal for handling =
cookies in=20
MRCPv2. The text is intended&nbsp;for addition to Section 6.1 ("Generic =
Message=20
Headers"). Thanks to Jeff for giving the proposal&nbsp;a "once=20
over".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- Dave</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Content-Type: text/plain;
	name="MRCPv2-Cookies-04-04-2004.txt"
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Set-Cookie and Set-Cookie2:
         
    The set-cookie and set-cookie2 entity-header fields MAY BE included
    in MRCPv2 requests to update the cookie store on a media server and
    can be returned in final MRCPv2 responses or events to subsequently
    update the client's own cookie store. The stored cookies on the 
    media server persist for the duration of the MRCPv2 session and MUST
    be destroyed at the end of the session. Since the type of cookie 
    header is dictated by the HTTP origin server, MRCPv2 clients and 
    servers SHOULD support both the set-cookie and set-cookie2 entity
    header fields.
       
      set-cookie      =       "Set-Cookie:" cookies
      cookies         =       1#cookie
      cookie          =       NAME "=" VALUE *(";" cookie-av)
      NAME            =       attribute
      VALUE           =       value
      cookie-av       =       "Comment" "=" value
                      |       "Domain" "=" value
                      |       "Max-Age" "=" value
                      |       "Path" "=" value
                      |       "Secure"
                      |       "Version" "=" 1*DIGIT
                      |       "Age" "=" delta-seconds
                          
      set-cookie2     =       "Set-Cookie2:" cookies2
      cookies2        =       1#cookie2
      cookie2         =       NAME "=" VALUE *(";" cookie-av2)
      NAME            =       attribute
      VALUE           =       value
      cookie-av2      =       "Comment" "=" value
                      |       "CommentURL" "=" <"> http_URL <">
                      |       "Discard"
                      |       "Domain" "=" value
                      |       "Max-Age" "=" value
                      |       "Path" "=" value
                      |       "Port" [ "=" <"> portlist <"> ]
                      |       "Secure"
                      |       "Version" "=" 1*DIGIT
                      |       "Age" "=" delta-seconds
      portlist        =       1#portnum
      portnum         =       1*DIGIT
                      
    The set-cookie and set-cookie2 header fields are specified in 
    RFC 2109 and RFC 2965 respectively. The "Age" attribute is 
    introduced in this specification to indicate the age of the cookie
    and is OPTIONAL. An MRCPv2 client or server SHOULD calculate the age
    of the cookie according to the age calculation rules in the HTTP/1.1
    specification (RFC 2616) and append the "Age" attribute accordingly. 
    
    A client MAY combine multiple cookie header fields of the same type
    into a single "field-name: field-value" pair as described in Section
    6.1. The client MUST NOT otherwise modify the set-cookie or 
    set-cookie2 field value.
        
    The set-cookie and set-cookie2 headers MAY BE specified in any 
    request that subsequently results in the media server performing an
    HTTP access. It is a permissable optimization to only specify
    cookies applicable to the particular MRCPv2 request (for example, 
    only specifying cookies with "Domain" and "Path" attributes
    matching URIs contained in the request header fields and message
    body). 
    
    When a media server receives new cookie information from an HTTP 
    origin server, and assuming the cookie store is modified according
    to RFC 2109 or RFC2965, the media server MUST return the new cookie
    information in the MRCPv2 COMPLETE response or event as appropriate
    to allow the client to update its own cookie store. 
    
    The SET-PARAMS request MAY specify the set-cookie and set-cookie2
    headers to update the cookie store on a media server. The GET-PARAMs
    request MAY BE used to return the entire cookie store of 
    "Set-Cookie" or "Set-Cookie2" type cookies to the client.
    
    
    
    
    
 
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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'speechsc@ietf.org'" <speechsc@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:34:48 -0400 
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Subject: [Speechsc] Remarks on the verification result
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Verification result (see =A711.5):

SV/SI is not the primary focus of NLSML or EMMA. Therefore the result =
format
needs to be defined in more detail. Especially the grammar attribute =
(see
example on page 101) needs some explanation, because in SV/SI no =
grammars
are involved. Also the incremental and cumulative elements need to be
defined.

Num-frames seems to be very vendor specific. What if a vendor does not =
have
a 10ms frame rate? The intent of this parameter is not clear - i.e., if =
it's
intended to denote the amount of speech data (such as to make sure the
utterance is not too short for reliable verification) - then, the =
result
here should be a measurement in units of time (not frames).=20

SV/SI engines that do not support gender or device detection cannot =
return a
meaningful value for 'matched'. Is this the reason why it is missing in =
all
examples? I suggest to remove it from the spec.

The spec should specify the range for verification-score and score: =
-1.0 -
1.0 (negative scores are recommended for failing, positive scores are
recommended for passing, size of number indicates confidence)

Regards,
Klaus


_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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Subject: [Speechsc] A suggestion to incorporate multi-verification in MRCP v2
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Hello,

Please find attached the muti-verification proposal.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490


Ran Zilca
04/02/2004 12:33 PM

To:    "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)" <speechsc@ietf.org>
cc:
From:  Ran Zilca/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
Subject:    List of clarification questions regarding verification, and a
       suggestion to incorporate multi-verification in MRCP v2


Hello,

Please find attached documents with the list of clarification questions and
muti-verification proposal.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: A proposal to incorporate multi-verification.doc)
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--0__=0ABBE4FEDFF602888f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBE4FEDFF60288--


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Hello,

Please find attached document with the list of clarification questions.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for speaker
verification.doc)
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--0__=0ABBE4FEDFF6065B8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBE4FEDFF6065B--


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Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification, and a suggestion to
 incorporate multi-verification in MRCP v2
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Hello,

Please find attached documents with the list of clarification questions and
muti-verification proposal.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for speaker
verification.doc)(See attached file: A proposal to incorporate
multi-verification.doc)
--0__=0ABBE4FEDFF2F6338f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBE4FEDFF2F633
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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:15:03 -0400
From: "David R. Oran" <oran@cisco.com>
To: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>,
        "'speechsc@ietf.org'" <speechsc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Speechsc] Alternatives to SIP?
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[Chair hat off]

--On Friday, April 2, 2004 12:01 PM -0500 "Reifenrath, Klaus"=20
<Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com> wrote:

> In the introduction (chap 1) it is stated that MRCPv2 builds upon a
> session management protocol SUCH as SIP. We should clarify if other
> protocols can be used. From my understanding it depends on SIP.
>
Here's a suggestion. In the MRCPv2 spec, we refer back to the requirements=20
document and point out which part of those requirement MRCP depends on the=20
session management protocol for. We also say that SIP meets those=20
requirements and hence it is mandatory to implement to ensure=20
interoperability among systems supporting MRCPv2. If people further wish to =

say that other session management protocols MAY be used by prior agreement, =

I would have no objection to that.

> Also in the introduction video stream processing resources are mentioned.
> I think we can strike this, because the current spec does not handle
> video at all.
>
Ok by me.

Dave. 
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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification, and a suggestion to incorporate multi-verification in MRCP v2
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:22:41 -0700
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Thread-Topic: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification, and a suggestion to incorporate multi-verification in MRCP v2
Thread-Index: AcQbTU65SjTV1WAGQ22IUvWifAQLnABdlFng
From: "Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com>
To: "Ran Zilca" <zilca@us.ibm.com>, <speechsc@ietf.org>
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Ran,

Your first clarification question brings up some good points.  Maybe we =
could do the following:

1) Add a new verification method "get_intermediate_result" that just =
polls the resource (one time) for whatever result it currently has, =
without changing the processing of the resource in any way.  The =
response would contain a standard result.
2) Add a new header to "verify_stop" that permits us to distinguish =
between aborting verification and pausing/stopping the current =
verification.  By pausing/stopping, I mean that the resource will behave =
exactly as it would if it had detected end of speech (i.e. th end of an =
utterance).  The client should only send this method with this header =
while verification is in progress.
3) Maybe we also want to add a start of speech event for the =
verification resource to send back if/when it detects start of speech, =
just the same way the ASR resource does.

-- dan

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
Of Ran Zilca
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:46 AM
To: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification, and a suggestion to incorporate multi-verification in MRCP
v2






Hello,

Please find attached documents with the list of clarification questions =
and
muti-verification proposal.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for =
speaker
verification.doc)(See attached file: A proposal to incorporate
multi-verification.doc)

_______________________________________________
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Importance: Normal
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification, and
 a suggestion to incorporate multi-verification in MRCP v2
To: "Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com>
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Dan,

All three suggestions sound good to me.
It addresses both the need to query the server while verification is in
progress, and the need to have the client initiate the "end of the turn"
rather than the server's internal end of speech.

Thanks,

-- Ran.

"Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com> on 04/07/2004 01:22:41 PM

To:    Ran Zilca/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, <speechsc@ietf.org>
cc:
Subject:    RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
       verification, and a suggestion to incorporate multi-verification in
       MRCP v2



Ran,

Your first clarification question brings up some good points.  Maybe we
could do the following:

1) Add a new verification method "get_intermediate_result" that just polls
the resource (one time) for whatever result it currently has, without
changing the processing of the resource in any way.  The response would
contain a standard result.
2) Add a new header to "verify_stop" that permits us to distinguish between
aborting verification and pausing/stopping the current verification.  By
pausing/stopping, I mean that the resource will behave exactly as it would
if it had detected end of speech (i.e. th end of an utterance).  The client
should only send this method with this header while verification is in
progress.
3) Maybe we also want to add a start of speech event for the verification
resource to send back if/when it detects start of speech, just the same way
the ASR resource does.

-- dan

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
Of Ran Zilca
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:46 AM
To: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification, and a suggestion to incorporate multi-verification in MRCP
v2






Hello,

Please find attached documents with the list of clarification questions and
muti-verification proposal.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for speaker
verification.doc)(See attached file: A proposal to incorporate
 multi-verification.doc)


_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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From: "Dave Burke" <david.burke@voxpilot.com>
To: "Sarvi Shanmugham" <sarvi@cisco.com>
Cc: "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)" <speechsc@ietf.org>
References: <00cd01c41a61$c6a3f400$0a01a8c0@db01.voxpilot.com>
Subject: Re: [Speechsc] Proposal for HTTP State Management (cookies) in MRCP -> Update
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:04:56 +0100
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Hi, Sarvi.

Attached is an update to the cookie proposal.=20

Change log:
(1) Now specifies the behaviour in the event an origin server omits the =
Domain or Path attributes
(2) Removed optimisation comment (for only supplying cookie information =
relevant to a specific MRCP request). This would have often required =
recursive introspection to discover domain and path information (e.g. a =
referenced SSML document with embedded <audio> or a dynamic SRGS =
documents with external rulerefs etc)

Thanks to Jeff Bergan (Nuance) for spotting these issues!

- Dave
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Dave Burke=20
  To: Sarvi Shanmugham=20
  Cc: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)=20
  Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 5:27 PM
  Subject: [Speechsc] Proposal for HTTP State Management (cookies) in =
MRCP


  Hi, Sarvi.

  Attached is a proposal for handling cookies in MRCPv2. The text is =
intended for addition to Section 6.1 ("Generic Message Headers"). Thanks =
to Jeff for giving the proposal a "once over".

  - Dave

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, Sarvi.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Attached is an update to the cookie =
proposal.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Change log:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(1) Now specifies&nbsp;the =
behaviour&nbsp;in the=20
event an&nbsp;origin server omits the Domain or Path =
attributes</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(2)</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
Removed=20
optimisation&nbsp;comment (for only&nbsp;supplying cookie information =
relevant=20
to a specific MRCP request). This would have&nbsp;often required =
recursive=20
introspection to discover domain and path information&nbsp;(e.g. a =
referenced=20
SSML document with embedded &lt;audio&gt; or a dynamic SRGS documents =
with=20
external rulerefs etc)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks to Jeff Bergan (Nuance) =
for&nbsp;spotting=20
these issues!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- Dave</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Ddavid.burke@voxpilot.com =
href=3D"mailto:david.burke@voxpilot.com">Dave=20
  Burke</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dsarvi@cisco.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:sarvi@cisco.com">Sarvi Shanmugham</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dspeechsc@ietf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:speechsc@ietf.org">IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 04, 2004 =
5:27=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Speechsc] Proposal =
for HTTP=20
  State Management (cookies) in MRCP</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, Sarvi.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Attached is a proposal for handling =
cookies in=20
  MRCPv2. The text is intended&nbsp;for addition to Section 6.1 =
("Generic=20
  Message Headers"). Thanks to Jeff for giving the proposal&nbsp;a "once =

  over".</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- =
Dave</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Set-Cookie and Set-Cookie2:
         
    The set-cookie and set-cookie2 entity-header fields MAY BE included
    in MRCPv2 requests to update the cookie store on a media server and
    can be returned in final MRCPv2 responses or events to subsequently
    update the client's own cookie store. The stored cookies on the 
    media server persist for the duration of the MRCPv2 session and MUST
    be destroyed at the end of the session. Since the type of cookie 
    header is dictated by the HTTP origin server, MRCPv2 clients and 
    servers SHOULD support both the set-cookie and set-cookie2 entity
    header fields.
       
      set-cookie      =       "Set-Cookie:" cookies
      cookies         =       1#cookie
      cookie          =       NAME "=" VALUE *(";" cookie-av)
      NAME            =       attribute
      VALUE           =       value
      cookie-av       =       "Comment" "=" value
                      |       "Domain" "=" value
                      |       "Max-Age" "=" value
                      |       "Path" "=" value
                      |       "Secure"
                      |       "Version" "=" 1*DIGIT
                      |       "Age" "=" delta-seconds
                          
      set-cookie2     =       "Set-Cookie2:" cookies2
      cookies2        =       1#cookie2
      cookie2         =       NAME "=" VALUE *(";" cookie-av2)
      NAME            =       attribute
      VALUE           =       value
      cookie-av2      =       "Comment" "=" value
                      |       "CommentURL" "=" <"> http_URL <">
                      |       "Discard"
                      |       "Domain" "=" value
                      |       "Max-Age" "=" value
                      |       "Path" "=" value
                      |       "Port" [ "=" <"> portlist <"> ]
                      |       "Secure"
                      |       "Version" "=" 1*DIGIT
                      |       "Age" "=" delta-seconds
      portlist        =       1#portnum
      portnum         =       1*DIGIT
                      
    The set-cookie and set-cookie2 header fields are specified in 
    RFC 2109 and RFC 2965 respectively. The "Age" attribute is 
    introduced in this specification to indicate the age of the cookie
    and is OPTIONAL. An MRCPv2 client or server SHOULD calculate the age
    of the cookie according to the age calculation rules in the HTTP/1.1
    specification (RFC 2616) and append the "Age" attribute accordingly. 
        
    The media client or server MUST supply defaults for the Domain and
    Path attributes if omitted by the HTTP origin server as specified in 
    RFC 2109 (set-cookie) and RFC 2965 (set-cookie2). Note that there 
    will be no leading dot present in the Domain attribute value in this
    case. Although an explicitly specified Domain value received via the
    HTTP protocol may be modified to include a leading dot, a media
    client or server MUST NOT modify the Domain value when received via
    the MRCPv2 protocol.
    
    A media client or server MAY combine multiple cookie header fields 
    of the same type into a single "field-name: field-value" pair as
    described in Section 6.1. 
         
    The set-cookie and set-cookie2 headers MAY BE specified in any 
    request that subsequently results in the media server performing an
    HTTP access. When a media server receives new cookie information 
    from an HTTP origin server, and assuming the cookie store is
    modified according to RFC 2109 or RFC2965, the media server MUST
    return the new cookie information in the MRCPv2 COMPLETE response or
    event as appropriate to allow the client to update its own cookie
    store. 
    
    The SET-PARAMS request MAY specify the set-cookie and set-cookie2
    headers to update the cookie store on a media server. The GET-PARAMs
    request MAY BE used to return the entire cookie store of 
    "Set-Cookie" or "Set-Cookie2" type cookies to the client.
    
    
    
    
    
 
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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'speechsc@ietf.org'" <speechsc@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:23:31 -0400
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Subject: [Speechsc] Kill-On-Barge-In
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The section of the kill-on-barge-in header field (chapter 8.4) still
references the obsolete channel identifier format ("ignoring the last 2
hexadecimal digits").

Klaus

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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'speechsc@ietf.org'" <speechsc@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:10:52 -0400
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The mail of Ran Zilca on intermediate results for SV/SI reminded me of one
of the open questions (see minutes of last WG meeting):
Do we need an INTERMEDIATE-RECOG-RESULT?   

Intermediate results for ASR make sense as well.
Imagine a multimodal application where the caller can fill several input
fields: after
the recognizer recognized valid input for the first slot, the recognized
value could be visualized, as soon the recognizer recognized input for
another slot, this slot can be filled on the screen as well and so on.
Another use case for intermediate results would be e-mail/SMS dictation.

Therefore I suggest to add an optional INTERMEDIATE-RECOG-RESULT event to
the speech recognizer resource.

Klaus 



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Subject: [Speechsc] "1*ALPHA" for many values is too restrictive
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In both the original MRCP and MRCPv2 specs, a number of header fields say
they supply values that are "1*ALPHA".

However, in real-life MRCP clients, we see values supplied that are
more than just 1*ALPHA. For instance:

     Speech-Language: en-US
     Logging-Tag: 14:14

are two examples I pulled from Cisco documentation with a Google, and
other MRCP clients we have seen supply similar values that are not
strictly 1*ALPHA.

It seems to me it would be good to loosen the specs on a number of
these fields to the RFC 2234 "VCHAR" (visible characters), or
something similar. The MRCPv2 spec in section 6.1 talks about "*TEXT",
but it doesn't define that anywhere.

Perhaps it's a little late to do this for MRCPv1, but this could go
in the MRCPv2 spec.

Regards,
Dan


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It certainly seems reasonable.  I assume the body of the 
INTERMEDIATE-RECOG-RESULT message would contain the intermediate results 
in NLSML (or EMMA) format?

Klaus wrote on 04/15/2004 02:10:52 AM:

> The mail of Ran Zilca on intermediate results for SV/SI reminded me of 
one
> of the open questions (see minutes of last WG meeting):
> Do we need an INTERMEDIATE-RECOG-RESULT? 
> 
> Intermediate results for ASR make sense as well.
> Imagine a multimodal application where the caller can fill several input
> fields: after
> the recognizer recognized valid input for the first slot, the recognized
> value could be visualized, as soon the recognizer recognized input for
> another slot, this slot can be filled on the screen as well and so on.
> Another use case for intermediate results would be e-mail/SMS dictation.
> 
> Therefore I suggest to add an optional INTERMEDIATE-RECOG-RESULT event 
to
> the speech recognizer resource.
> 
> Klaus 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speechsc mailing list
> Speechsc@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc


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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
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The definition of the recognition-timeout header field could be more precise
about when the timer is started. Is the timer started when START-OF-SPEECH
is generated by the server or when RECOGNIZE/RECOGNITION-START-TIMERS is
send by the client? In the former case the parameter specifies the maximum
period of time for the utterance and maps nicely to the property
maxspeechtimeout in VoiceXML or the attribute babbletimeout in SALT. In the
later case it would be equivalent to the attribute maxtimeout in SALT.

Klaus

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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:35:37 -0400
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Thread-Topic: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
Thread-Index: AcQmBpYh+AfSFQNATba4aabS9j6DIQAFLfew
From: "Pierre Forgues" <forgues@nuance.com>
To: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>, <speechsc@ietf.org>
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Hi Klaus,

The definition is indeed a bit ambiguous.  It is the timer that is
started when START-OF-SPEECH event is generated by the server.  It is
indeed used to specify the maximum duration of an utterance. =20

Pierre=20
-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Reifenrath, Klaus
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 07:51
To: 'speechsc@ietf.org'
Subject: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

The definition of the recognition-timeout header field could be more
precise
about when the timer is started. Is the timer started when
START-OF-SPEECH
is generated by the server or when RECOGNIZE/RECOGNITION-START-TIMERS is
send by the client? In the former case the parameter specifies the
maximum
period of time for the utterance and maps nicely to the property
maxspeechtimeout in VoiceXML or the attribute babbletimeout in SALT. In
the
later case it would be equivalent to the attribute maxtimeout in SALT.

Klaus

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc

_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'Pierre Forgues'" <forgues@nuance.com>
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:49:38 -0400
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Hi Pierre,

this is inline with my understanding of the spec.

If the timer expires and there is no match, completion code 003
(recognition-timeout) should be returned, right?
If the timer expires and there is a match, completion code 008
(too-much-speech-timeout) along with a recognition result is returned? 

Klaus


-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 16:36
To: Reifenrath, Klaus; speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Hi Klaus,

The definition is indeed a bit ambiguous.  It is the timer that is
started when START-OF-SPEECH event is generated by the server.  It is
indeed used to specify the maximum duration of an utterance.  

Pierre 
-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Reifenrath, Klaus
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 07:51
To: 'speechsc@ietf.org'
Subject: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

The definition of the recognition-timeout header field could be more
precise
about when the timer is started. Is the timer started when
START-OF-SPEECH
is generated by the server or when RECOGNIZE/RECOGNITION-START-TIMERS is
send by the client? In the former case the parameter specifies the
maximum
period of time for the utterance and maps nicely to the property
maxspeechtimeout in VoiceXML or the attribute babbletimeout in SALT. In
the
later case it would be equivalent to the attribute maxtimeout in SALT.

Klaus

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:04:19 -0400
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Thread-Topic: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
Thread-Index: AcQmJjx5H3I2lezDTYCRuT/941/6uwACenCA
From: "Pierre Forgues" <forgues@nuance.com>
To: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
Cc: <speechsc@ietf.org>
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Klaus,

In our case, when this timer expires, we never have a match.  The 003
recognition-timeout and 008 too-much-speech-timeout are equivalent and
ambiguous it seems.  In this case, we return a 008
too-much-speech-timeout since in our case we don't produce a match.

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Reifenrath, Klaus [mailto:Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com]=20
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 11:50
To: Pierre Forgues
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi Pierre,

this is inline with my understanding of the spec.

If the timer expires and there is no match, completion code 003
(recognition-timeout) should be returned, right?
If the timer expires and there is a match, completion code 008
(too-much-speech-timeout) along with a recognition result is returned?=20

Klaus


-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 16:36
To: Reifenrath, Klaus; speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Hi Klaus,

The definition is indeed a bit ambiguous.  It is the timer that is
started when START-OF-SPEECH event is generated by the server.  It is
indeed used to specify the maximum duration of an utterance. =20

Pierre=20
-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Reifenrath, Klaus
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 07:51
To: 'speechsc@ietf.org'
Subject: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

The definition of the recognition-timeout header field could be more
precise
about when the timer is started. Is the timer started when
START-OF-SPEECH
is generated by the server or when RECOGNIZE/RECOGNITION-START-TIMERS is
send by the client? In the former case the parameter specifies the
maximum
period of time for the utterance and maps nicely to the property
maxspeechtimeout in VoiceXML or the attribute babbletimeout in SALT. In
the
later case it would be equivalent to the attribute maxtimeout in SALT.

Klaus

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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Hi Sarvi!

The current version of the spec does not define, how the mrcp-version field
has to be used.
What about adding the following section to chapter 5? 

	MRCP Version
	Request, response and event messages include the version of MRCP in
use,
	and follow [H3.1] (with HTTP replaced by MRCP, and HTTP/1.1 replaced
	by MRCP/2.0) regarding version ordering, compliance requirements,
and
	upgrading of version numbers. To be compliant with this
	specification, applications sending MRCP messages MUST include a
MRCPVersion
	of "MRCP/2.0".

Regards,
Klaus


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Hi Sarvi,

It seems that in the GET-PARAMS sample (section 6.3) the channel-identifier
of the response is not correct (missing '@speechsynth').

Regards,
Klaus

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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification
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Thread-Topic: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification
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From: "Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com>
To: "Ran Zilca" <zilca@us.ibm.com>,
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Ran,

Here are some thoughts on a few of your other questions.

3) You're right on this one.  Apparently this default language didn't =
get copied (my fault) from the MRCP1 extensions document into the MRCP2 =
draft.  The default should be false.

4) This is a good suggestion.  I think in the transition from buffering =
methods to header fields this was lost.  However, it should probably be =
named VER-CLEAR-BUFFER for consistency with the other method names.  =
Also, it doesn't really need to be on all the resources since it's clear =
a verification feature.  It might be better for it just to be on the =
Verification resource -- no one would even use this method if they =
hadn't implemented the verification resource.
We should probably also make it clear that since the buffer belongs to =
the verification resource, it will be cleared or released whenever the =
verification resource is.  At a minimum, this would at least happen when =
the entire MRCP session ends.

Klaus' recent questions about recognition timeouts point out something =
else missing -- a speech-complete-timeout for the verification resource. =
 This timeout would indicate how long the resource should wait to be =
sure that the caller has finished speaking.  It should probably be =
settable/gettable as in the recognizer resource.

-- dan

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
Of Ran Zilca
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:30 AM
To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification






Hello,

Please find attached document with the list of clarification questions.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for =
speaker
verification.doc)

_______________________________________________
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Dan,

Your suggestions on points 3 and 4 sound good.
Regarding the clear method naming - all verification methods currently
start with "VER-", so it makes sense. It also makes sense to me to have the
verification resource own the buffer, as it will typically be implemented
inside the verification engine.

-- Ran.

"Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com> on 04/21/2004 04:18:32 PM

To:    Ran Zilca/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)"
       <speechsc@ietf.org>
cc:
Subject:    RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
       verification



Ran,

Here are some thoughts on a few of your other questions.

3) You're right on this one.  Apparently this default language didn't get
copied (my fault) from the MRCP1 extensions document into the MRCP2 draft.
The default should be false.

4) This is a good suggestion.  I think in the transition from buffering
methods to header fields this was lost.  However, it should probably be
named VER-CLEAR-BUFFER for consistency with the other method names.  Also,
it doesn't really need to be on all the resources since it's clear a
verification feature.  It might be better for it just to be on the
Verification resource -- no one would even use this method if they hadn't
implemented the verification resource.
We should probably also make it clear that since the buffer belongs to the
verification resource, it will be cleared or released whenever the
verification resource is.  At a minimum, this would at least happen when
the entire MRCP session ends.

Klaus' recent questions about recognition timeouts point out something else
missing -- a speech-complete-timeout for the verification resource.  This
timeout would indicate how long the resource should wait to be sure that
the caller has finished speaking.  It should probably be settable/gettable
as in the recognizer resource.

-- dan

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
Of Ran Zilca
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:30 AM
To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification






Hello,

Please find attached document with the list of clarification questions.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for speaker
 verification.doc)


_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



From exim@www1.ietf.org  Thu Apr 22 03:55:58 2004
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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'Daniel Burnett'" <burnett@nuance.com>
Cc: Ran Zilca <zilca@us.ibm.com>,
        "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)"
	 <speechsc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verifica
	tion
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:20:09 -0400
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Hi Dan,

in case the client reuses an open verification resource for multiple
telephone calls, the verification buffer needs to be cleared whenever a new
telephone call starts. This can be achieved with VER-CLEAR-BUFFER. However
the verification resource MUST also discard any collected line statistics or
information. Therefore I suggest to introduce another header field named
'new-audio-channel', that is already defined for the recognizer resource.
This header field MAY be specified in VER-CLEAR-BUFFER (and
VER-START-SESSION?).

Regards,
Klaus

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Burnett [mailto:burnett@nuance.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 22:19
To: Ran Zilca; IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification


Ran,

Here are some thoughts on a few of your other questions.

3) You're right on this one.  Apparently this default language didn't get
copied (my fault) from the MRCP1 extensions document into the MRCP2 draft.
The default should be false.

4) This is a good suggestion.  I think in the transition from buffering
methods to header fields this was lost.  However, it should probably be
named VER-CLEAR-BUFFER for consistency with the other method names.  Also,
it doesn't really need to be on all the resources since it's clear a
verification feature.  It might be better for it just to be on the
Verification resource -- no one would even use this method if they hadn't
implemented the verification resource.
We should probably also make it clear that since the buffer belongs to the
verification resource, it will be cleared or released whenever the
verification resource is.  At a minimum, this would at least happen when the
entire MRCP session ends.

Klaus' recent questions about recognition timeouts point out something else
missing -- a speech-complete-timeout for the verification resource.  This
timeout would indicate how long the resource should wait to be sure that the
caller has finished speaking.  It should probably be settable/gettable as in
the recognizer resource.

-- dan

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
Of Ran Zilca
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:30 AM
To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification






Hello,

Please find attached document with the list of clarification questions.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for speaker
verification.doc)

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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Importance: Normal
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verifica	tion
To: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
Cc: "'Daniel Burnett'" <burnett@nuance.com>,
        "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)" <speechsc@ietf.org>
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This is a good point. The distinction between clearing the buffer and
resetting any channel related mechanism (for additional future buffering)
are two different things. An optional header field looks like a good way to
address this.

Ran.

"Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com> on 04/22/2004 03:20:09
AM

To:    "'Daniel Burnett'" <burnett@nuance.com>
cc:    Ran Zilca/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)"
       <speechsc@ietf.org>
Subject:    RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
       verifica   tion



Hi Dan,

in case the client reuses an open verification resource for multiple
telephone calls, the verification buffer needs to be cleared whenever a new
telephone call starts. This can be achieved with VER-CLEAR-BUFFER. However
the verification resource MUST also discard any collected line statistics
or
information. Therefore I suggest to introduce another header field named
'new-audio-channel', that is already defined for the recognizer resource.
This header field MAY be specified in VER-CLEAR-BUFFER (and
VER-START-SESSION?).

Regards,
Klaus

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Burnett [mailto:burnett@nuance.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 22:19
To: Ran Zilca; IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification


Ran,

Here are some thoughts on a few of your other questions.

3) You're right on this one.  Apparently this default language didn't get
copied (my fault) from the MRCP1 extensions document into the MRCP2 draft.
The default should be false.

4) This is a good suggestion.  I think in the transition from buffering
methods to header fields this was lost.  However, it should probably be
named VER-CLEAR-BUFFER for consistency with the other method names.  Also,
it doesn't really need to be on all the resources since it's clear a
verification feature.  It might be better for it just to be on the
Verification resource -- no one would even use this method if they hadn't
implemented the verification resource.
We should probably also make it clear that since the buffer belongs to the
verification resource, it will be cleared or released whenever the
verification resource is.  At a minimum, this would at least happen when
the
entire MRCP session ends.

Klaus' recent questions about recognition timeouts point out something else
missing -- a speech-complete-timeout for the verification resource.  This
timeout would indicate how long the resource should wait to be sure that
the
caller has finished speaking.  It should probably be settable/gettable as
in
the recognizer resource.

-- dan

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
Of Ran Zilca
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:30 AM
To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification






Hello,

Please find attached document with the list of clarification questions.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for speaker
verification.doc)

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
 https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc


_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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From: "Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com>
To: "Sarvi Shanmugham" <sarvi@cisco.com>, "Jeff Kusnitz" <jk@us.ibm.com>
Cc: "Deborah Dahl" <dahl@conversational-technologies.com>,
        "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)" <speechsc@ietf.org>,
        <speechsc-admin@ietf.org>
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By the way, EMMA may be "important", but it's not "done", or even =
"stable".  This is a question I've been meaning to raise for quite a =
while now -- what should we be referencing?  Until EMMA reaches at least =
Candidate Recommendation, we have no business requiring it in MRCP.  It =
would be much better to stay with NLSML until that point.
=20
-- dan
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf =
Of Sarvi Shanmugham
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:19 AM
To: Jeff Kusnitz
Cc: Deborah Dahl; 'IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)'; speechsc-admin@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Speechsc] NLSML Version


Well, I think it was because the older draft wasn't complete enough for =
its use in MRCPv1.
But it was the best we could do short of defining a new XML for the =
purpose.  So we based on the whatever version was available at that =
time.

Sarvi

Jeff Kusnitz wrote:


Deborah Dahl wrote on 03/10/2004 10:29:27 AM:



 =20

Actually, the only public working draft of NLSML was the

November, 2000 one ( http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-nl-spec-20001120/).

There were two versions sent in May, 2001 to the W3C Voice Browser=20

internal Working Group list(May 7 and May 30) but neither of them was=20

officially published.



   =20

-----Original Message-----

From:  speechsc-admin@ietf.org=20

[ mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Kusnitz

Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:11 AM

To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)

Subject: [Speechsc] NLSML Version





The current draft references a May 30, 2001 draft of the=20

NLSML spec.  I've=20

looked all over and can't find this version - the closed I've=20

found is May=20

5, 2001.  Is the May 5 version correct?



Thanks,

Jeff

     =20



Ahh, the mail archive, of course - I hadn't thought of that.  And there =
it=20

is, the mystery version :-)  I realize neither the 5/7 version nor the=20

5/30 version were officially published (which would leave one wondering=20

why the MRCP spec(s) require it :-)



Thanks!

Jeff



_______________________________________________

Speechsc mailing list

Speechsc@ietf.org

https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



 =20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<TITLE></TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D844193213-23042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>By the=20
way, EMMA may be "important", but it's not "done", or even =
"stable".&nbsp; This=20
is a question I've been meaning to raise for quite a while now -- what =
should we=20
be referencing?&nbsp; Until EMMA reaches at least Candidate =
Recommendation, we=20
have no business requiring it in MRCP.&nbsp; It would be much better to =
stay=20
with NLSML until that point.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D844193213-23042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D844193213-23042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>--=20
dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D844193213-23042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
speechsc-admin@ietf.org=20
[mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Sarvi=20
Shanmugham<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:19 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Jeff=20
Kusnitz<BR><B>Cc:</B> Deborah Dahl; 'IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)';=20
speechsc-admin@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Speechsc] NLSML=20
Version<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Well, I think it was because the older draft =
wasn't=20
complete enough for its use in MRCPv1.<BR>But it was the best we could =
do short=20
of defining a new XML for the purpose.&nbsp; So we based on the whatever =
version=20
was available at that time.<BR><BR>Sarvi<BR><BR>Jeff Kusnitz wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
cite=3DmidOFDA112591.73C36E44-ON88256E53.00681FBF-88256E53.00686623@us.ib=
m.com=20
type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Deborah Dahl wrote on 03/10/2004 10:29:27 =
AM:

  </PRE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Actually, the only public =
working draft of NLSML was the
November, 2000 one (<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-nl-spec-20001120/">http://www.w3.org=
/TR/2000/WD-nl-spec-20001120/</A>).
There were two versions sent in May, 2001 to the W3C Voice Browser=20
internal Working Group list(May 7 and May 30) but neither of them was=20
officially published.

    </PRE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">-----Original Message-----
From: <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated =
href=3D"mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org">speechsc-admin@ietf.org</A>=20
[<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D"mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org">mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org</A=
>] On Behalf Of Jeff Kusnitz
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:11 AM
To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: [Speechsc] NLSML Version


The current draft references a May 30, 2001 draft of the=20
NLSML spec.  I've=20
looked all over and can't find this version - the closed I've=20
found is May=20
5, 2001.  Is the May 5 version correct?

Thanks,
Jeff
      </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->
Ahh, the mail archive, of course - I hadn't thought of that.  And there =
it=20
is, the mystery version :-)  I realize neither the 5/7 version nor the=20
5/30 version were officially published (which would leave one wondering=20
why the MRCP spec(s) require it :-)

Thanks!
Jeff

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated =
href=3D"mailto:Speechsc@ietf.org">Speechsc@ietf.org</A>
<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc">https://www1.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc</A>

  </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:10:52 -0400
From: David Oran <oran@cisco.com>
To: Daniel Burnett <burnett@nuance.com>, Sarvi Shanmugham <sarvi@cisco.com>,
        Jeff Kusnitz <jk@us.ibm.com>
cc: Deborah Dahl <dahl@conversational-technologies.com>,
        "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)" <speechsc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] NLSML Version
Message-ID: <2147483647.1082722252@[10.32.245.156]>
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--On Friday, April 23, 2004 6:34 AM -0700 Daniel Burnett 
<burnett@nuance.com> wrote:

>
> By the way, EMMA may be "important", but it's not "done", or even
> "stable".  This is a question I've been meaning to raise for quite a
> while now -- what should we be referencing?  Until EMMA reaches at least
> Candidate Recommendation, we have no business requiring it in MRCP.  It
> would be much better to stay with NLSML until that point.
>
>From the pragmatic point of view of finishing MRCPv2 and getting it to last 
call on our agreed timeframe (of which about a month remains), I strongly 
urge folks to stick with what's stable.

Dave (chair hat on)

> -- dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
> Of Sarvi Shanmugham
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:19 AM
> To: Jeff Kusnitz
> Cc: Deborah Dahl; 'IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)'; speechsc-admin@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Speechsc] NLSML Version
>
> Well, I think it was because the older draft wasn't complete enough for
> its use in MRCPv1.
> But it was the best we could do short of defining a new XML for the
> purpose.  So we based on the whatever version was available at that time.
>
> Sarvi
>
> Jeff Kusnitz wrote:
>
>
> Deborah Dahl wrote on 03/10/2004 10:29:27 AM:
>
>
>
>
> Actually, the only public working draft of NLSML was the
> November, 2000 one (http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-nl-spec-20001120/).
> There were two versions sent in May, 2001 to the W3C Voice Browser
> internal Working Group list(May 7 and May 30) but neither of them was
> officially published.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org
> [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Kusnitz
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:11 AM
> To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
> Subject: [Speechsc] NLSML Version
>
>
> The current draft references a May 30, 2001 draft of the
> NLSML spec.  I've
> looked all over and can't find this version - the closed I've
> found is May
> 5, 2001.  Is the May 5 version correct?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> Ahh, the mail archive, of course - I hadn't thought of that.  And there
> it
> is, the mystery version :-)  I realize neither the 5/7 version nor the
> 5/30 version were officially published (which would leave one wondering
> why the MRCP spec(s) require it :-)
>
> Thanks!
> Jeff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speechsc mailing list
> Speechsc@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc
>
>
>





_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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To: David Oran <oran@cisco.com>
Cc: Daniel Burnett <burnett@nuance.com>,
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        Sarvi Shanmugham <sarvi@cisco.com>,
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In <brrr/> Minneapolis - we decided, as I recall, to leave a spot in our 
spec for either NLSML or EMMA, and when it came time to publish, look to 
see what state EMMA was in and put it in or leave it out based on that. If 
it's not quite ready yet, then it should be out, or optional anyway.

Jeff

David Oran <oran@cisco.com> wrote on 04/23/2004 09:10:52 AM:

> --On Friday, April 23, 2004 6:34 AM -0700 Daniel Burnett 
> <burnett@nuance.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > By the way, EMMA may be "important", but it's not "done", or even
> > "stable".  This is a question I've been meaning to raise for quite a
> > while now -- what should we be referencing?  Until EMMA reaches at 
least
> > Candidate Recommendation, we have no business requiring it in MRCP. It
> > would be much better to stay with NLSML until that point.
> >
> >From the pragmatic point of view of finishing MRCPv2 and getting it to 
last 
> call on our agreed timeframe (of which about a month remains), I 
strongly 
> urge folks to stick with what's stable.
> 
> Dave (chair hat on)
> 
> > -- dan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On 
Behalf
> > Of Sarvi Shanmugham
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:19 AM
> > To: Jeff Kusnitz
> > Cc: Deborah Dahl; 'IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)'; speechsc-admin@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Speechsc] NLSML Version
> >
> > Well, I think it was because the older draft wasn't complete enough 
for
> > its use in MRCPv1.
> > But it was the best we could do short of defining a new XML for the
> > purpose.  So we based on the whatever version was available at that 
time.
> >
> > Sarvi
> >
> > Jeff Kusnitz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Deborah Dahl wrote on 03/10/2004 10:29:27 AM:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Actually, the only public working draft of NLSML was the
> > November, 2000 one (http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-nl-spec-20001120/).
> > There were two versions sent in May, 2001 to the W3C Voice Browser
> > internal Working Group list(May 7 and May 30) but neither of them was
> > officially published.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org
> > [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Kusnitz
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:11 AM
> > To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
> > Subject: [Speechsc] NLSML Version
> >
> >
> > The current draft references a May 30, 2001 draft of the
> > NLSML spec.  I've
> > looked all over and can't find this version - the closed I've
> > found is May
> > 5, 2001.  Is the May 5 version correct?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ahh, the mail archive, of course - I hadn't thought of that.  And 
there
> > it
> > is, the mystery version :-)  I realize neither the 5/7 version nor the
> > 5/30 version were officially published (which would leave one 
wondering
> > why the MRCP spec(s) require it :-)
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Jeff
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speechsc mailing list
> > Speechsc@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Sarvi,

There are a number of changes that have been mentioned on the list since =
the last published MRCP2 draft.  Can you send an interim draft with =
these changes to the list (even MSWord format is okay)?  We have some =
comments but want to give them based on the most recent version of the =
document (since some relevant portions of the document have/will =
change).

Thanks,

-- dan


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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: speechsc@ietf.org
Cc: "'Pierre Forgues'" <forgues@nuance.com>
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
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Hi group!

In case the callers utterance exceeds the maximum duration (given by the
recognition-timeout) and the recognizer has a complete match, but the caller
did not stop speaking (speech-complete-timeout did not elapse) 
the current spec allows the following alternatives  
1) continue recognition until speech-complete-timeout indicates that the
caller stopped speaking; 
2) return completion cause "success" and a recognition result (as if
speech-complete-timeout did elapse). 
In the former case the recognition timeout is only applied to utterances
that have no match. But this seems not to go with "maxspeechtimeout" of
VoiceXML. 
In the later case the client does not get informed that only part of the
callers utterance was recognized.
 
I suggest to return a recognition result and a new completion cause
"success-maxtime" (compare recorder completion causes in 10.4). Either
"too-much-speech-timeout" or "recognition-timeout" would become obsolete. 

Klaus

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 19:04
To: Reifenrath, Klaus
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Klaus,

In our case, when this timer expires, we never have a match.  The 003
recognition-timeout and 008 too-much-speech-timeout are equivalent and
ambiguous it seems.  In this case, we return a 008
too-much-speech-timeout since in our case we don't produce a match.

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Reifenrath, Klaus [mailto:Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com] 
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 11:50
To: Pierre Forgues
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi Pierre,

this is inline with my understanding of the spec.

If the timer expires and there is no match, completion code 003
(recognition-timeout) should be returned, right?
If the timer expires and there is a match, completion code 008
(too-much-speech-timeout) along with a recognition result is returned? 

Klaus


-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 16:36
To: Reifenrath, Klaus; speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Hi Klaus,

The definition is indeed a bit ambiguous.  It is the timer that is
started when START-OF-SPEECH event is generated by the server.  It is
indeed used to specify the maximum duration of an utterance.  

Pierre 
-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Reifenrath, Klaus
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 07:51
To: 'speechsc@ietf.org'
Subject: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

The definition of the recognition-timeout header field could be more
precise
about when the timer is started. Is the timer started when
START-OF-SPEECH
is generated by the server or when RECOGNIZE/RECOGNITION-START-TIMERS is
send by the client? In the former case the parameter specifies the
maximum
period of time for the utterance and maps nicely to the property
maxspeechtimeout in VoiceXML or the attribute babbletimeout in SALT. In
the
later case it would be equivalent to the attribute maxtimeout in SALT.

Klaus

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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'sarvi@cisco.com'" <sarvi@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Speechsc] RFC 1766
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Hi Sarvi,

in the current version of MRCPv2 RFC 1766 is referenced (speech-language
header field for speech synthesizer and speech recognizer resources). But
RFC 3066 obsoletes 1766.

Regards,
Klaus

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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'speechsc@ietf.org'" <speechsc@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:14:54 -0400
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Subject: [Speechsc] TTS resource types
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Hi group!

>From my point of view the definitions of basicsynth and audioplayer are not
adequate for the following reasons:
1) It is not possible to create a valid SSML document (fragment) that only
contains <audio> and <marker> elements
2) basicsynth is defined by implementation ("using concatenated audio
files")
The spec should clearly state that all speech synthesizer resources should
only take valid SSML as input. I recommend listing all the SSML elements in
a table, then putting checks in the columns for each of the synthesizer
types to show requirements.

Regards,
Klaus

_______________________________________________
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From: "Dave Burke" <david.burke@voxpilot.com>
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Subject: Re: [Speechsc] TTS resource types
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Hi,

I agree with Klaus that the current definitions can be improved.

What Klaus is suggesting is similar to the W3C concept of  'modularization'
where collections of modules are subsequently defined as 'profiles' (e.g.
XHTML modularization or X+V). Modules are expressed formally using DTDs and
Schemas. There could be a profile for audioplayer and speechsynth.

- Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: <speechsc@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 1:14 PM
Subject: [Speechsc] TTS resource types


> Hi group!
>
> From my point of view the definitions of basicsynth and audioplayer are
not
> adequate for the following reasons:
> 1) It is not possible to create a valid SSML document (fragment) that only
> contains <audio> and <marker> elements
> 2) basicsynth is defined by implementation ("using concatenated audio
> files")
> The spec should clearly state that all speech synthesizer resources should
> only take valid SSML as input. I recommend listing all the SSML elements
in
> a table, then putting checks in the columns for each of the synthesizer
> types to show requirements.
>
> Regards,
> Klaus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speechsc mailing list
> Speechsc@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc
>


_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



From exim@www1.ietf.org  Tue Apr 27 10:14:04 2004
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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
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Subject: [Speechsc] VER-FROM-BUFFER
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Hi!

What happens if VER-FROM-BUFFER is called while a RECOGNIZE or RECORD, with
ver-buffer-utterance header field set to true, is in progress? I can think
of the following alternatives:
1) return with completion cause 006 out-of-sequence or a new completion
cause "buffer-in-use"
2) return an "IN-PROGRESS" response followed by the "VERIFICATION-COMPLETE"
event after RECOGNIZE/RECORD completed (taking into account the audio of the
RECOGNIZE/RECORD)
3) return a verification result that does not take into account the audio of
the RECOGNIZE/RECORD in progress.	
I prefer option 1)

Regards,
Klaus

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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
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We return immediately with a 008 "too-much-speech-timeout".  How about
just clarifying the documentation to reflect this?

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Reifenrath, Klaus [mailto:Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com]=20
Sent: 27 avril, 2004 04:13
To: speechsc@ietf.org
Cc: Pierre Forgues
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi group!

In case the callers utterance exceeds the maximum duration (given by the
recognition-timeout) and the recognizer has a complete match, but the
caller
did not stop speaking (speech-complete-timeout did not elapse)=20
the current spec allows the following alternatives =20
1) continue recognition until speech-complete-timeout indicates that the
caller stopped speaking;=20
2) return completion cause "success" and a recognition result (as if
speech-complete-timeout did elapse).=20
In the former case the recognition timeout is only applied to utterances
that have no match. But this seems not to go with "maxspeechtimeout" of
VoiceXML.=20
In the later case the client does not get informed that only part of the
callers utterance was recognized.
=20
I suggest to return a recognition result and a new completion cause
"success-maxtime" (compare recorder completion causes in 10.4). Either
"too-much-speech-timeout" or "recognition-timeout" would become
obsolete.=20

Klaus

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 19:04
To: Reifenrath, Klaus
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Klaus,

In our case, when this timer expires, we never have a match.  The 003
recognition-timeout and 008 too-much-speech-timeout are equivalent and
ambiguous it seems.  In this case, we return a 008
too-much-speech-timeout since in our case we don't produce a match.

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Reifenrath, Klaus [mailto:Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com]=20
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 11:50
To: Pierre Forgues
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi Pierre,

this is inline with my understanding of the spec.

If the timer expires and there is no match, completion code 003
(recognition-timeout) should be returned, right?
If the timer expires and there is a match, completion code 008
(too-much-speech-timeout) along with a recognition result is returned?=20

Klaus


-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 16:36
To: Reifenrath, Klaus; speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Hi Klaus,

The definition is indeed a bit ambiguous.  It is the timer that is
started when START-OF-SPEECH event is generated by the server.  It is
indeed used to specify the maximum duration of an utterance. =20

Pierre=20
-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Reifenrath, Klaus
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 07:51
To: 'speechsc@ietf.org'
Subject: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

The definition of the recognition-timeout header field could be more
precise
about when the timer is started. Is the timer started when
START-OF-SPEECH
is generated by the server or when RECOGNIZE/RECOGNITION-START-TIMERS is
send by the client? In the former case the parameter specifies the
maximum
period of time for the utterance and maps nicely to the property
maxspeechtimeout in VoiceXML or the attribute babbletimeout in SALT. In
the
later case it would be equivalent to the attribute maxtimeout in SALT.

Klaus

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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From: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
To: "'Pierre Forgues'" <forgues@nuance.com>
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:46:06 -0400
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Hi Pierre!

Why should the available result be discarded right away? This would only
elongate the call.
MRCP should allow two ways of handling this situation:
1) immediately return with a 008 "too-much-speech"
2) return 00x "success-maxtime" plus a recognition result
In 2) the recognizer treats the situation, when the maximum length of speech
has been reached, as if it had detected end-of-speech.

Klaus

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Dienstag, 27. April 2004 20:49
To: Reifenrath, Klaus; speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


We return immediately with a 008 "too-much-speech-timeout".  How about
just clarifying the documentation to reflect this?

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Reifenrath, Klaus [mailto:Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com] 
Sent: 27 avril, 2004 04:13
To: speechsc@ietf.org
Cc: Pierre Forgues
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi group!

In case the callers utterance exceeds the maximum duration (given by the
recognition-timeout) and the recognizer has a complete match, but the
caller
did not stop speaking (speech-complete-timeout did not elapse) 
the current spec allows the following alternatives  
1) continue recognition until speech-complete-timeout indicates that the
caller stopped speaking; 
2) return completion cause "success" and a recognition result (as if
speech-complete-timeout did elapse). 
In the former case the recognition timeout is only applied to utterances
that have no match. But this seems not to go with "maxspeechtimeout" of
VoiceXML. 
In the later case the client does not get informed that only part of the
callers utterance was recognized.
 
I suggest to return a recognition result and a new completion cause
"success-maxtime" (compare recorder completion causes in 10.4). Either
"too-much-speech-timeout" or "recognition-timeout" would become
obsolete. 

Klaus

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 19:04
To: Reifenrath, Klaus
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Klaus,

In our case, when this timer expires, we never have a match.  The 003
recognition-timeout and 008 too-much-speech-timeout are equivalent and
ambiguous it seems.  In this case, we return a 008
too-much-speech-timeout since in our case we don't produce a match.

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Reifenrath, Klaus [mailto:Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com] 
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 11:50
To: Pierre Forgues
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi Pierre,

this is inline with my understanding of the spec.

If the timer expires and there is no match, completion code 003
(recognition-timeout) should be returned, right?
If the timer expires and there is a match, completion code 008
(too-much-speech-timeout) along with a recognition result is returned? 

Klaus


-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 16:36
To: Reifenrath, Klaus; speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Hi Klaus,

The definition is indeed a bit ambiguous.  It is the timer that is
started when START-OF-SPEECH event is generated by the server.  It is
indeed used to specify the maximum duration of an utterance.  

Pierre 
-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Reifenrath, Klaus
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 07:51
To: 'speechsc@ietf.org'
Subject: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

The definition of the recognition-timeout header field could be more
precise
about when the timer is started. Is the timer started when
START-OF-SPEECH
is generated by the server or when RECOGNIZE/RECOGNITION-START-TIMERS is
send by the client? In the former case the parameter specifies the
maximum
period of time for the utterance and maps nicely to the property
maxspeechtimeout in VoiceXML or the attribute babbletimeout in SALT. In
the
later case it would be equivalent to the attribute maxtimeout in SALT.

Klaus

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
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Thread-Topic: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout
Thread-Index: AcQtGLtx/TbipcL5TROREhxdVAiBPgAA6v0Q
From: "Pierre Forgues" <forgues@nuance.com>
To: "Reifenrath, Klaus" <Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com>
Cc: <speechsc@ietf.org>
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OK, agreed!  This would leave the choice to the recognition engine.  The
second option would be used if there are worthwhile results to return. =20

Practically speaking, we have not seen this as a common case.
Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Reifenrath, Klaus
Sent: 28 avril, 2004 04:46
To: Pierre Forgues
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi Pierre!

Why should the available result be discarded right away? This would only
elongate the call.
MRCP should allow two ways of handling this situation:
1) immediately return with a 008 "too-much-speech"
2) return 00x "success-maxtime" plus a recognition result
In 2) the recognizer treats the situation, when the maximum length of
speech
has been reached, as if it had detected end-of-speech.

Klaus

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Dienstag, 27. April 2004 20:49
To: Reifenrath, Klaus; speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


We return immediately with a 008 "too-much-speech-timeout".  How about
just clarifying the documentation to reflect this?

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Reifenrath, Klaus [mailto:Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com]=20
Sent: 27 avril, 2004 04:13
To: speechsc@ietf.org
Cc: Pierre Forgues
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi group!

In case the callers utterance exceeds the maximum duration (given by the
recognition-timeout) and the recognizer has a complete match, but the
caller
did not stop speaking (speech-complete-timeout did not elapse)=20
the current spec allows the following alternatives =20
1) continue recognition until speech-complete-timeout indicates that the
caller stopped speaking;=20
2) return completion cause "success" and a recognition result (as if
speech-complete-timeout did elapse).=20
In the former case the recognition timeout is only applied to utterances
that have no match. But this seems not to go with "maxspeechtimeout" of
VoiceXML.=20
In the later case the client does not get informed that only part of the
callers utterance was recognized.
=20
I suggest to return a recognition result and a new completion cause
"success-maxtime" (compare recorder completion causes in 10.4). Either
"too-much-speech-timeout" or "recognition-timeout" would become
obsolete.=20

Klaus

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 19:04
To: Reifenrath, Klaus
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Klaus,

In our case, when this timer expires, we never have a match.  The 003
recognition-timeout and 008 too-much-speech-timeout are equivalent and
ambiguous it seems.  In this case, we return a 008
too-much-speech-timeout since in our case we don't produce a match.

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Reifenrath, Klaus [mailto:Klaus.Reifenrath@Scansoft.com]=20
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 11:50
To: Pierre Forgues
Cc: speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

Hi Pierre,

this is inline with my understanding of the spec.

If the timer expires and there is no match, completion code 003
(recognition-timeout) should be returned, right?
If the timer expires and there is a match, completion code 008
(too-much-speech-timeout) along with a recognition result is returned?=20

Klaus


-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Forgues [mailto:forgues@nuance.com]
Sent: Montag, 19. April 2004 16:36
To: Reifenrath, Klaus; speechsc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout


Hi Klaus,

The definition is indeed a bit ambiguous.  It is the timer that is
started when START-OF-SPEECH event is generated by the server.  It is
indeed used to specify the maximum duration of an utterance. =20

Pierre=20
-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Reifenrath, Klaus
Sent: 19 avril, 2004 07:51
To: 'speechsc@ietf.org'
Subject: [Speechsc] Recognition Timeout

The definition of the recognition-timeout header field could be more
precise
about when the timer is started. Is the timer started when
START-OF-SPEECH
is generated by the server or when RECOGNIZE/RECOGNITION-START-TIMERS is
send by the client? In the former case the parameter specifies the
maximum
period of time for the utterance and maps nicely to the property
maxspeechtimeout in VoiceXML or the attribute babbletimeout in SALT. In
the
later case it would be equivalent to the attribute maxtimeout in SALT.

Klaus

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc

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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:02:55 -0700
Message-ID: <ED834EE1FDD6C3468AB0F5569206E6E9027324A0@MPB1EXCH02.nuance.com>
Thread-Topic: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification
Thread-Index: AcQbQhIqmVQzHeDARWivdjdMad+6PgSYO4qA
From: "Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com>
To: "Ran Zilca" <zilca@us.ibm.com>,
        "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)" <speechsc@ietf.org>
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Ran,

Here are some thoughts on some of your other comments:

6) Now that VER-STOP can be used in less of an emergency (abort) =
situation, it should be stated explicitly that VER-STOP does not =
automatically perform a rollback. In other words, the processing that =
has already happened for this utterance will affect the cumulative =
scores unless explicitly rolled back.

7) This is actually intended to start the no-input timer exactly like =
the similar method in the Recognizer resource.  Although one might =
question the usefulness of doing verification on utterances that were =
barge-ins over a prompt, several engines (including ours) can do this, =
so why not?
Note that the client would only call this method if the caller had =
barged in.  For consistency, we should add a verification-start-timers =
header field (with a default value of true) on the VERIFY method call =
that begins the verification timers in the same way that =
recognizer-start-timers does for the recognizer.

8) No. It would be adapted. You can always call VER-DELETE-VOICEPRINT if =
you need to.

Come to think of it, it might be cleaner to require a single session to =
be only training or only verification/identification (i.e., the =
verification-mode header should be moved to be only on the =
VER-START-SESSION method).  Then VER-DELETE-VOICEPRINT could be =
restricted to only be callable outside of a session.  This would =
simplify the semantics since we wouldn't have to specify what would have =
happened if a client deleted a voiceprint during a session that was =
actively modifying the voiceprint.

If we make these changes to verification-mode and VER-DELETE-VOICEPRINT, =
there should probably be a state machine diagram in the document to =
easily explain all of this.

9) Yes, since training is initiated by a call to VERIFY.  There should =
probably be an example of this.

-- dan

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
Of Ran Zilca
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:30 AM
To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification






Hello,

Please find attached document with the list of clarification questions.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for =
speaker
verification.doc)

_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc



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Subject: RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding verification
To: "Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com>
Cc: "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)" <speechsc@ietf.org>
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Dan,

6) Agreed.

7) Agreed.

8) Restricting sessions to be training or verification only and allowing
VER-DELETE-VOICEPRINT only outside is OK with me. I also agree that a state
machine will be useful to describe these possible sequences. However, in
any case I think the spec should say explicitly that voiceprints are
adapted rather than retrained unless deleted.

Thanks,

-- Ran.


"Daniel Burnett" <burnett@nuance.com> on 04/29/2004 06:02:55 PM

To:    Ran Zilca/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, "IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)"
       <speechsc@ietf.org>
cc:
Subject:    RE: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
       verification



Ran,

Here are some thoughts on some of your other comments:

6) Now that VER-STOP can be used in less of an emergency (abort) situation,
it should be stated explicitly that VER-STOP does not automatically perform
a rollback. In other words, the processing that has already happened for
this utterance will affect the cumulative scores unless explicitly rolled
back.

7) This is actually intended to start the no-input timer exactly like the
similar method in the Recognizer resource.  Although one might question the
usefulness of doing verification on utterances that were barge-ins over a
prompt, several engines (including ours) can do this, so why not?
Note that the client would only call this method if the caller had barged
in.  For consistency, we should add a verification-start-timers header
field (with a default value of true) on the VERIFY method call that begins
the verification timers in the same way that recognizer-start-timers does
for the recognizer.

8) No. It would be adapted. You can always call VER-DELETE-VOICEPRINT if
you need to.

Come to think of it, it might be cleaner to require a single session to be
only training or only verification/identification (i.e., the
verification-mode header should be moved to be only on the
VER-START-SESSION method).  Then VER-DELETE-VOICEPRINT could be restricted
to only be callable outside of a session.  This would simplify the
semantics since we wouldn't have to specify what would have happened if a
client deleted a voiceprint during a session that was actively modifying
the voiceprint.

If we make these changes to verification-mode and VER-DELETE-VOICEPRINT,
there should probably be a state machine diagram in the document to easily
explain all of this.

9) Yes, since training is initiated by a call to VERIFY.  There should
probably be an example of this.

-- dan

-----Original Message-----
From: speechsc-admin@ietf.org [mailto:speechsc-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf
Of Ran Zilca
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:30 AM
To: IETF SPEECHSC (E-mail)
Subject: [Speechsc] List of clarification questions regarding
verification






Hello,

Please find attached document with the list of clarification questions.

Best regards,

Ran Zilca
Conversational Biometrics
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
1101 Kitchawan Rd.
Yorktown Heights, NY 10598

http://www.research.ibm.com/CBG

Voice:      (914) 945-3013
Fax:  (914) 945-4490

(See attached file: Calrification quetions on MRCPv1 extension for speaker
 verification.doc)


_______________________________________________
Speechsc mailing list
Speechsc@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speechsc