From nobody Wed Nov 3 21:00:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47DF43A0855; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:00:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g8I6EbwR5sp8; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FA493A084F; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraeml742-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.206]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Hl8wF5Xntz67XMQ; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 11:57:01 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeml755-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.136) by fraeml742-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 05:00:26 +0100 Received: from dggeml757-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.137) by dggeml755-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.136) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.15; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:00:24 +0800 Received: from dggeml757-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.137]) by dggeml757-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.137]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:00:24 +0800 From: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" To: "spring@ietf.org" CC: "spring-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: SPRING Agenda is posted Thread-Index: AdfRMHJ02DRIdNiXQJGPLQ2xjt7n+g== Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 04:00:24 +0000 Message-ID: <71f2cce5f98a4b51bfeb882136d48e33@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.153.179.89] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_71f2cce5f98a4b51bfeb882136d48e33huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [spring] SPRING Agenda is posted X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 04:00:35 -0000 --_000_71f2cce5f98a4b51bfeb882136d48e33huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, The SPRING Agenda is posted. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-112-spring/ Please directly upload your slides https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112= /session/spring or send it to the spring-chairs@ietf.org before Monday since we are the first session. Thank you! Best regards, Shuping From: Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 11:44 AM To: spring@ietf.org Cc: spring-chairs@ietf.org Subject: IETF 112 Slot Requests Dear all, The IETF 112 Final Agenda is now available https://datatracker.ietf.org/mee= ting/112/agenda.html and the SPRING session is arranged on Monday as below. Monday, November 8, 2021 12:00-14:00 Monday Session I Room 5 rtg spring Source Packet Routing in Networking We will continue to using the Google Form to collect presentation slot requ= ests in the SPRING WG for this IETF112. Please fill in your request in the = following Form. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MkWm0817Qibt1JaOQjaMEmzbWOEJZAA1XxeKvnL2NQ= Q/edit If there is any issue for you to access this Form, please send your request= directly to spring-chairs@ietf.org. Thank you! Best regards, Shuping --_000_71f2cce5f98a4b51bfeb882136d48e33huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear al= l,

&n= bsp;

The SPR= ING Agenda is posted.

https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/agenda-112-spring/

&n= bsp;

Please = directly upload your slides https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/session/spring or send it to the spring-chairs@ietf.org before= Monday since we are the first session. Thank you!  =

&n= bsp;

Best re= gards,

Shuping=

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 11:44 AM
To: spring@ietf.org
Cc: spring-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: IETF 112 Slot Requests

 

Dear all,

 

The IETF 112 Final Agenda is= now available https://da= tatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/agenda.html

and the SPRING session is ar= ranged on Monday as below.

 

Monday, November 8, 2021

12:00-14:00

Monday Session I<= /span>

Room 5   rtg =    spring Source Packet Routing in Networking

 

We will continue to using the G= oogle Form to collect presentation slot requests in the SPRING WG for this = IETF112. Please fill in your request in the following Form.

 

https://docs= .google.com/forms/d/1MkWm0817Qibt1JaOQjaMEmzbWOEJZAA1XxeKvnL2NQQ/edit

 

If there is any issue for you t= o access this Form, please send your request directly to spring-chairs@ietf.org.<= /o:p>

 

Thank you!

 

Best regards,=

Shuping

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Fri, 5 Nov 2021 14:17:51 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression Thread-Index: AQHXzm0rrAuJrHFs5E2Ay9SaUYq/dav0+C92 Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 14:17:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-CA X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: joelhalpern.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;joelhalpern.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6736eb55-19a4-4f93-c58c-08d9a0670d93 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3155: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_BL1PR11MB5366E7DA16026A6898C77441C88E9BL1PR11MB5366namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL1PR11MB5366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6736eb55-19a4-4f93-c58c-08d9a0670d93 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Nov 2021 14:17:51.7548 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 1bEd24CKh+xNkQeNamiHLeRi2yO39CC7V6kB4VkQGyffIPO9Sw1CMBfRBiRw06bzcFtMy6NoYJxZoJzx1vH3tg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB3155 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.19, xbe-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 14:18:03 -0000 --_000_BL1PR11MB5366E7DA16026A6898C77441C88E9BL1PR11MB5366namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Joel, I want to make note of two suggestions, I=92m copying the list for record k= eeping only. 1 =96 The second bullet (beginning with =93As reminded=94) should include t= he link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs https://mailarchive.i= etf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ and their response https= ://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ 2 =96 About the requirements for a document identifying the =93relationship= of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.=94. The word =93C-SIDs=94 should be changed to = =93SRv6 SIDs=94 in the sentences when such a document is discussed. This w= ould better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: =93To summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work continuing in SPRI= NG, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].=94 And =93[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize SRv6 SIDs is need= ed.=94 Thanks Darren On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" wrote: With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email formally ends the adoption call that was announced at https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully. First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their active and energetic participation in this call. That is what we need. In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the rough consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document. Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this adoption, one of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of which will cause some delay. The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs. This policy applies to the subject document. It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whether this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy. As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible working group for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect. fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area directors are appointing authors for just such a document to address the issue of the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291. Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man consumption of such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve posting of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat. As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open issues. As there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section. Once the draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text. Also, once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to make sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the open issues section of the document. Expected text on Open Issues: Open Issues: Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the working group to keep track of. As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a work in progress, and subject to change by the working group. As noted at the front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material" o Given that the working group has said that it wants to standardize one data plane solution, and given that the document contains multiple SRv6 EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid and coherent with its one data plane solution objective. o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this document is subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/. In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG last call until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals with the relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291. It is hoped and expected that said resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination address field. _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --_000_BL1PR11MB5366E7DA16026A6898C77441C88E9BL1PR11MB5366namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Joel,

 

I want to make note of two suggestions, I=92m copying the l= ist for record keeping only.

 

1 =96 The second bullet= (beginning with =93As reminded=94) should include the link to the question= s asked of the 6man chairs/ADs https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloD= qpyRk-xWHniw/ and their response https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66= ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/

 

2 =96 About the requirements for a document identifying the= =93relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.=94.  The word =93C-SIDs=94 s= hould be changed to =93SRv6 SIDs=94 in the sentences when such a document i= s discussed.  This would better match the 6man chairs/ADs response:

=93To summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work co= ntinuing in SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].= =94

And

=93[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize S= Rv6 SIDs is needed.=94

 

Thanks

  Darren<= /p>

 

 



With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email fo= rmally
ends the adoption call that was announced at
https://mailarch= ive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/
for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression

The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully.

First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their
active and energetic participation in this call.  That is what we need= .

In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the rough
consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document.
Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this adoption, one of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of which will cause some delay.

The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March
https://mailarch= ive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/
which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group
efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs.  This policy applies to the subje= ct
document.  It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whether =
this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy.
As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible working group for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect.
fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area directors
are appointing authors for just such a document to address the issue of the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.
Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft
until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man consumption of such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve posting
of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat.

As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the
document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most
appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open issues. As there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to
describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section.   On= ce the
draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of
course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text.  Also= ,
once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to make
sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the
open issues section of the document.

Expected text on Open Issues:

Open Issues:

Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are
tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies
the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the
working group to keep track of.

As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a work in progress, and subject to change by the working group.  As noted at the=
front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as=
reference material"

o Given that the working group has said that it wants to standardize one data plane solution, and given that the document contains multiple SRv6
EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data
plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid
and coherent with its one data plane solution objective.

o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this document is
subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in
https://mailarch= ive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/.
In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG last call until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals with the
relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291.  It is hoped and expected that sai= d
resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a
document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination
address field.

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring<= /span>

--_000_BL1PR11MB5366E7DA16026A6898C77441C88E9BL1PR11MB5366namp_-- From nobody Fri Nov 5 10:25:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F281C3A118F for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:25:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3hsawmfWlgNf for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05A833A0E24 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Hm6q44Fsdz6G9N2 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:25:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636133152; bh=4X7n/pMz+ahj2+mw7NkieGGDlXtFx2ZABHceDJhyEfE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:From; b=KiheFKXjmLI4LB4WgyzU/WL1ILkbk+u9/DpD6IoZQp7+JuMST8Vi/pRA38ub3Ryc1 jlErac9DSn5/p0fvxNhVDjhkPhI5wKAAlpRtg7u5DkOhQEoRvyv8SZLgN8enteHiSa DfIXt8+t3TcreU+UCcng3NVrKXmFoAu9n6KbMX0o= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Hm6q41VRbz6G9Lf for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1f124690-6784-6927-d679-85ffd72c4182@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 13:25:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: "spring@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Upcoming meeting - presentaiton material X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:25:57 -0000 Presenters, please upload your proposed slides at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/session/spring and then let Shuping know you have done so. We are meeting first thing Monday so we need this done. Thank you, Joel (for the SPRING Chairs collectively) From nobody Fri Nov 5 10:26:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE1E3A12AD for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z5nxA_2Row4F for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D29C3A12AB for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by opfedar24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTPS id 4Hm6qZ4P1kz5wtt for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 18:26:18 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1636133178; bh=5SbGuBkZElJTXjDAbbljgz+HxZ0Kz239jUQYPmzhK14=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=IZzI2JHazYxwYqQPjzEMZ9x/JeCmVtAIdZTJgKk3Ogjr9rZMhXc05761nmejrZ366 UDlRDomCLPkKakbKzZXTtSqvmYaunrhnzNu5uXwVMBEvPcOi6jts3aORKsMBIOl+pQ DhhG6u0H2AhKxsiCaQr/bsGWuJYE7Bc6i9uVYRDCeWAxA+HPeL2YArBlLg/RCMLuOi GVBuw6zdt0TE2LSLIIsDgo1fSArja6MNgHL/Qk12MS7LNrFLc6TVCkQbL9cb2SMoWU lLq4UjE1rqsuWC70N7wy3vp20o1YW1YcFMuLhmee/GfhX/XXt7eP8stjEivnDbPGvy tXlfSItrjG4dA== From: To: SPRING WG Thread-Topic: Agenda for 6MAN session at IETF 112 Thread-Index: AQHX0ldwoTPUbV65z0iP1hs7QGmFw6v1Lopw Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:26:17 +0000 Message-ID: <16948_1636133178_6185693A_16948_15_3_be98e99c3cd249ac89a4334f52b9d6a5@orange.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f47c794b-e3ab-43f0-9e0f-29fc3e503192_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_f47c794b-e3ab-43f0-9e0f-29fc3e503192_SetDate=2021-11-05T17:26:16Z; MSIP_Label_f47c794b-e3ab-43f0-9e0f-29fc3e503192_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_f47c794b-e3ab-43f0-9e0f-29fc3e503192_Name=Orange_restricted_external.2; MSIP_Label_f47c794b-e3ab-43f0-9e0f-29fc3e503192_SiteId=90c7a20a-f34b-40bf-bc48-b9253b6f5d20; MSIP_Label_f47c794b-e3ab-43f0-9e0f-29fc3e503192_ActionId=; MSIP_Label_f47c794b-e3ab-43f0-9e0f-29fc3e503192_ContentBits=2 x-originating-ip: [10.115.26.52] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] FW: Agenda for 6MAN session at IETF 112 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:26:25 -0000 Hi all, Some items of the 6MAN WG agenda may be of interest to the SPRING WG. In pa= rticular " SID & IPv6 addressing, Erik Kline (AD), Suresh Krishnan, 20 min." Please consider attending. --Bruno Orange Restricted -----Original Message----- From: ipv6 On Behalf Of Bob Hinden Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 4:10 PM To: IPv6 List Cc: Bob Hinden Subject: Agenda for 6MAN session at IETF 112 The initial agenda has been posted, it can be found at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/agenda-112-6man We believe we were able to accommodate all of the requests we received. There will also be a joint 6MAN + V6OPS session on Friday, November 12, 202= 1 at 12:00-14:00 UTC focused on the IPv6 Hop by Hop option header. Bob and Ole ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Fri Nov 5 10:39:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539353A12CD for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:39:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.43 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.33, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mehMTAetYNOu for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D67443A12CC for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Hm76x3chqz6G9N8; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:39:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636133977; bh=htaQpNAwdgpZn9uAez6yasksNNXgJIF+YgmWcNwyxKg=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=ebD/+WRIww4jfDa2rsxVEwZLgdMQFZH0XTtuNZLFCi2MdFEMd9l1agiRHvMjle+oJ 9rx8zUaCsbOpYkvszBxpJCDBXNnDOepfUS+chEXuuu4Fg/f9FSPfn88HNjC2G/ERg/ Dt7Y1lYbdcqSvY+KI314YwbmjjO4F6B8Hpdbt9BY= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Hm76x02WHz6G9N1; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 13:39:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:39:42 -0000 Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must decline both requests. On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING chairs policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the adoption conclusion. It is not reliant on the charter item, the question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer that 6man provided. On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the adopted document (and potentially holding up last call on the document, assuming as I do that we will get that far), is about this document. Which is about C-SIDs. If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question in their document, that is their call. Our dependence is on the C-SID part of that. I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that. In the unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as that is what we need to advance work on this compression document. Yours, Joel On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > Hello Joel, > > I want to make note of two suggestions, I’m copying the list for record > keeping only. > > 1 – The second bullet (beginning with “As reminded”) should include the > link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ > and > their response > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ > > 2 – About the requirements for a document identifying the “relationship > of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.”.  The word “C-SIDs” should be changed to “SRv6 > SIDs” in the sentences when such a document is discussed.  This would > better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: > > “To summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work continuing in > SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].” > > And > > “[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize SRv6 SIDs is > needed.” > > Thanks > > Darren > > On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" wrote: > > > > With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email formally > ends the adoption call that was announced at > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ > for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression > > The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully. > > First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their > active and energetic participation in this call.  That is what we need. > > In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the rough > consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document. > Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this adoption, one > of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of which will > cause some delay. > > The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs.  This policy applies to the subject > document.  It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whether > this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy. > As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible working group > for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect. > fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area directors > are appointing authors for just such a document to address the issue of > the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291. > Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft > until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man consumption of > such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve posting > of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat. > > As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the > document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most > appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open issues. As > there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to > describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section.   Once the > draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of > course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text.  Also, > once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to make > sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the > open issues section of the document. > > Expected text on Open Issues: > > Open Issues: > > Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies > the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the > working group to keep track of. > > As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a work in > progress, and subject to change by the working group.  As noted at the > front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as > reference material" > > o Given that the working group has said that it wants to standardize one > data plane solution, and given that the document contains multiple SRv6 > EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data > plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid > and coherent with its one data plane solution objective. > > o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this document is > subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/. > In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG last call > until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals with the > relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291.  It is hoped and expected that said > resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a > document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination > address field. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Fri Nov 5 11:46:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBBF3A0764 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:46:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UrVigG0PszOT for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com (mail-ua1-x934.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 987F63A0749 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id o26so18792745uab.5 for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hmwhJvSFLt0n5bxFc3QVvdEYFN6VFryh9g+/XAY+7ag=; b=QbR2YqlaocYRmNZAOkFAWX5cnOnOlEUUIlhrXtRmGzhDpioBqIOup2xD8R2ShX46yE c3Gy2ZZtpGOfE4liBOqlov6q/FvECCdUIQMCMOn1fqqfpLVd0uPohOA7kyXCnnhNPDW4 FKPGIu1uOYE4qf0O1pzFIzZSdlpS7TKvGPdIdUcGPKGrn+uicdH2R8K1rI1Qc9qwf8ML FrFMkfOCSNZoBIxSm7qq/3ABA2EgtS6iDdWbviwtIxJo2tyW6W6YX2Y5ccgwb0PghTxJ 2Q0TwgAeqx/0iF2ohSbKhnzgF2XOMshPP+NlD/vQQ05Ri+xTPnrTqOZ1zW7KmnZY5tAR h/vQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hmwhJvSFLt0n5bxFc3QVvdEYFN6VFryh9g+/XAY+7ag=; b=eOu7WA8Oh6Efgw5BYgh9L4Q46if37JvAmwVUOjG43FOtDyzE5E3lT+8745jH6Gbx/Y mG7UU8gsIHfZIc77XLjC7a3pbAXCZhj/yeKTyZYig29GjXK5V/RzwODXZ5CtM7Voo3GI T/nNz74kQlIqJxoLQgPSIqfrQ/XWiCazbuNqefxGrAaEmkvXyLJBupAUV5m2c2nOlbna BXdWcupD/p1dQ7o7NM6NNo9eEf/Yh2WInB5kVTkXKoJwatN8q9BY58tWeEgF1vlzCCj9 snuHALDFAp+ktYSWgYYNmH6+D0FTN01zbCuTxrkx6n+xM6rFTe2ILw+N+AomQZ6Mw0bE AC7w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531DvJgm0nT3aoYHG9lo8Aq3SgeGMmhUw/wPKxkvwcI/7c2evH7X O8QYOQgAzGMUT7WncZXh2N77Wuum8AoFPzrmRHPIAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwt4MNzSPIhjvQP8CRkxr5IHWgC0FbSneq/rLaeP+4Ya14Olrvt4JcSYlrzFbuJQhZSbyzcwmBMmXNMIihoYVA= X-Received: by 2002:a67:3310:: with SMTP id z16mr9102972vsz.5.1636137993729; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 11:46:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 19:46:43 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eb8c9805d00f0ffe" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 18:46:42 -0000 --000000000000eb8c9805d00f0ffe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Joel, It is clear that your personal view of the relevance of SID ARG content to IPv6 address differs from the view of many WG participants. To be very clear - whatever SPRING WG decides to put into SID ARG field it is completely orthogonal to IPv6 community as it has completely nothing to do with IPv6 addressing architecture. That is based on approved RFC 8986. We can call it c-sid, sid++, sid/4, rainbow and I am sure the list will grow with time. The entire concept of SRv6 NP is that the data plane will also need to be programmable. And yes at segment endpoints to properly process SRv6 packets plain IPv6 data plane support is not sufficient. SRv6 data plane must be in place. I think looking from the beginning of this discussions to me it is obvious that SRv6 should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data plane. To me this is new data plane however made in a backwards compatible way with IPv6 for the transit nodes. Kind regards, Robert On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 6:39 PM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must decline both requests. > > On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING chairs > policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the > adoption conclusion. It is not reliant on the charter item, the > question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer that 6man > provided. > > On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the adopted document > (and potentially holding up last call on the document, assuming as I do > that we will get that far), is about this document. Which is about > C-SIDs. If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question in their > document, that is their call. Our dependence is on the C-SID part of > that. I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that. In the > unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship of C-SIDs > to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as that is > what we need to advance work on this compression document. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > > Hello Joel, > > > > I want to make note of two suggestions, I=E2=80=99m copying the list fo= r record > > keeping only. > > > > 1 =E2=80=93 The second bullet (beginning with =E2=80=9CAs reminded=E2= =80=9D) should include the > > link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ > > > and > > their response > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ > > > > > 2 =E2=80=93 About the requirements for a document identifying the =E2= =80=9Crelationship > > of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.=E2=80=9D. The word =E2=80=9CC-SIDs=E2=80=9D s= hould be changed to =E2=80=9CSRv6 > > SIDs=E2=80=9D in the sentences when such a document is discussed. This= would > > better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: > > > > =E2=80=9CTo summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work continui= ng in > > SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].=E2=80=9D > > > > And > > > > =E2=80=9C[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize SRv6 SI= Ds is > > needed.=E2=80=9D > > > > Thanks > > > > Darren > > > > On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" wrote: > > > > > > > > With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email formally > > ends the adoption call that was announced at > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/= < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/= > > > for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression > > > > The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully. > > > > First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their > > active and energetic participation in this call. That is what we need. > > > > In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the rough > > consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document. > > Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this adoption, one > > of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of which will > > cause some delay. > > > > The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/= < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/= > > > which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group > > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs. This policy applies to the subjec= t > > document. It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whether > > this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy. > > As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible working grou= p > > for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect. > > fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area directors > > are appointing authors for just such a document to address the issue of > > the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291. > > Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft > > until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man consumption o= f > > such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve posting > > of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat. > > > > As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the > > document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most > > appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open issues. A= s > > there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to > > describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section. Once the > > draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of > > course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text. Also, > > once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to make > > sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the > > open issues section of the document. > > > > Expected text on Open Issues: > > > > Open Issues: > > > > Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are > > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies > > the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the > > working group to keep track of. > > > > As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a work in > > progress, and subject to change by the working group. As noted at the > > front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as > > reference material" > > > > o Given that the working group has said that it wants to standardize on= e > > data plane solution, and given that the document contains multiple SRv6 > > EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data > > plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid > > and coherent with its one data plane solution objective. > > > > o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this document is > > subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/= < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > >. > > In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG last call > > until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals with the > > relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291. It is hoped and expected that said > > resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a > > document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination > > address field. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring< > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring> > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000eb8c9805d00f0ffe Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Joel,

It is clear that your person= al view of the relevance=C2=A0of SID ARG content to IPv6 address differs fr= om the view of many WG participants.=C2=A0

To be v= ery clear - whatever SPRING WG decides to put into SID ARG field it is comp= letely=C2=A0orthogonal to IPv6 community as it has completely nothing to do= with IPv6 addressing architecture. That is based on approved RFC 8986.=C2= =A0

We can call it c-sid, sid++, sid/4, rainbow an= d I am sure the list will grow with time. The entire concept of SRv6 NP is = that the data plane will also need to be programmable. And yes at segment e= ndpoints to properly process SRv6 packets plain IPv6 data plane support is = not sufficient. SRv6 data plane must be in place.=C2=A0

I think looking from the beginning of this discussions to me it is ob= vious that SRv6 should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data plane. T= o me this is new data plane however made in a backwards=C2=A0compatible way= with IPv6 for the transit nodes.=C2=A0

Kind regar= ds,
Robert


On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 6:39 PM Joe= l M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com= > wrote:
= Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must decline both requests.

On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING chairs policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the
adoption conclusion.=C2=A0 It is not reliant on the charter item, the
question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer that 6man
provided.

On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the adopted document (and potentially holding up last call on the document, assuming as I do that we will get that far), is about this document.=C2=A0 Which is about C-SIDs.=C2=A0 If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question in their <= br> document, that is their call.=C2=A0 Our dependence is on the C-SID part of =
that.=C2=A0 I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that.=C2=A0 In the=
unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as that is
what we need to advance work on this compression document.

Yours,
Joel

On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote:
> Hello Joel,
>
> I want to make note of two suggestions, I=E2=80=99m copying the list f= or record
> keeping only.
>
> 1 =E2=80=93 The second bullet (beginning with =E2=80=9CAs reminded=E2= =80=9D) should include the
> link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs
> https://mailarchive.ietf= .org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/
> <https://mailarchive.= ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/> and
> their response
> https://mailarchive.ie= tf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/3= k8_1JgKGtnLsfsVf65qvReNuLc/>
>
> 2 =E2=80=93 About the requirements for a document identifying the =E2= =80=9Crelationship
> of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 The word =E2=80=9CC-SIDs=E2= =80=9D should be changed to =E2=80=9CSRv6
> SIDs=E2=80=9D in the sentences when such a document is discussed.=C2= =A0 This would
> better match the 6man chairs/ADs response:
>
> =E2=80=9CTo summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work continu= ing in
> SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].=E2=80= =9D
>
> And
>
> =E2=80=9C[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize SRv6 S= IDs is
> needed.=E2=80=9D
>
> Thanks
>
> Darren
>
> On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" <spring-bounces@ietf.org> wrot= e:
>
>
>
> With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email formally=
> ends the adoption call that was announced at
> https://mailarchive.ie= tf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spr= ing/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/>
> for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression
>
> The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully.
>
> First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their > active and energetic participation in this call.=C2=A0 That is what we= need.
>
> In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the rough=
> consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document.<= br> > Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this adoption, on= e
> of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of which wil= l
> cause some delay.
>
> The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March
> https://mailarchive.ie= tf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spr= ing/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/>
> which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs.=C2=A0 This policy applies to the = subject
> document.=C2=A0 It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whe= ther
> this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy.
> As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible working gro= up
> for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect.
> fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area directors=
> are appointing authors for just such a document to address the issue o= f
> the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.
> Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft<= br> > until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man consumption = of
> such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve posting=
> of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat.<= br> >
> As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the
> document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most
> appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open issues. = As
> there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to<= br> > describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section.=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Once the
> draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of > course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text.=C2=A0= Also,
> once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to make=
> sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the > open issues section of the document.
>
> Expected text on Open Issues:
>
> Open Issues:
>
> Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies<= br> > the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the
> working group to keep track of.
>
> As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a work i= n
> progress, and subject to change by the working group.=C2=A0 As noted a= t the
> front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Draf= ts as
> reference material"
>
> o Given that the working group has said that it wants to standardize o= ne
> data plane solution, and given that the document contains multiple SRv= 6
> EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data<= br> > plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid<= br> > and coherent with its one data plane solution objective.
>
> o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this document is=
> subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in
> https://mailarchive.ie= tf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spr= ing/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/>.
> In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG last cal= l
> until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals with the=
> relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291.=C2=A0 It is hoped and expected tha= t said
> resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a > document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination > address field.
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring<= ;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring> >

_______________________________________________
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--000000000000eb8c9805d00f0ffe-- From nobody Fri Nov 5 12:02:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4AE3A083D for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:02:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.43 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.33, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vsohAjOyTVZW for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDAFC3A0EFF for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:01:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Hm8xc36pCz6G9Lf; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:01:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636138900; bh=x7GHJ1mJLetHP8hBAtXytsYPLRpM3Me3BylCITPHjdQ=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=mh7huJlIkuFSLAQPWOXDof3X8hW61tv/m2pPFk1OsGSNXX1EWkGLsGG/kVf3zs0Sg 2V3mQ5ubeiDWy+2ouFWaSwltNNMbPCIHcE3ljKzItE71nsNT1TuLsJJTJYuLLI47/k wjb7RKUyhxFQ34HD9jUKgFeDi/vB/DLOzW63ArQ8= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Hm8xb2QxFz6G8CP; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 15:01:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "spring@ietf.org" References: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 19:02:41 -0000 Robert, as far as I can tell, no one other than you believes that "SRv6 should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data plane." The SRH was approved by 6man, whose only remit is the IPv6 data plane. Many descriptions of SRv6 describe it as providing segment routing to IPv6. And all SRv6 packets when carried on Ethernet use the IPv6 Ethertype. By any measure I can see, SRv6 is part of IPv6. Just as SR-MPLS is part of MPLS. It is relevant that SRv6 in my understanding changes the forwarding behavior of IPv6, and C-SID changes it significantly more. But that doe snot mean it is not an extension of IPv6. More importantly in terms of the adoption call, the issue of the relationship between C-SIDs and RFC 4291 was raised in such a way that I concluded that even if I did not agree with the issue I would have to recognize that it needed to be addressed. Yours, Joel On 11/5/2021 2:46 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Dear Joel, > > It is clear that your personal view of the relevance of SID ARG content > to IPv6 address differs from the view of many WG participants. > > To be very clear - whatever SPRING WG decides to put into SID ARG field > it is completely orthogonal to IPv6 community as it has completely > nothing to do with IPv6 addressing architecture. That is based on > approved RFC 8986. > > We can call it c-sid, sid++, sid/4, rainbow and I am sure the list will > grow with time. The entire concept of SRv6 NP is that the data plane > will also need to be programmable. And yes at segment endpoints to > properly process SRv6 packets plain IPv6 data plane support is not > sufficient. SRv6 data plane must be in place. > > I think looking from the beginning of this discussions to me it is > obvious that SRv6 should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data > plane. To me this is new data plane however made in a > backwards compatible way with IPv6 for the transit nodes. > > Kind regards, > Robert > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 6:39 PM Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must decline both requests. > > On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING > chairs > policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the > adoption conclusion.  It is not reliant on the charter item, the > question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer that 6man > provided. > > On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the adopted document > (and potentially holding up last call on the document, assuming as I do > that we will get that far), is about this document.  Which is about > C-SIDs.  If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question in their > document, that is their call.  Our dependence is on the C-SID part of > that.  I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that.  In the > unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship of C-SIDs > to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as that is > what we need to advance work on this compression document. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > > Hello Joel, > > > > I want to make note of two suggestions, I’m copying the list for > record > > keeping only. > > > > 1 – The second bullet (beginning with “As reminded”) should > include the > > link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ > > > > > > > and > > their response > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ > > > > > > > 2 – About the requirements for a document identifying the > “relationship > > of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.”.  The word “C-SIDs” should be changed > to “SRv6 > > SIDs” in the sentences when such a document is discussed.  This > would > > better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: > > > > “To summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work continuing in > > SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].” > > > > And > > > > “[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize SRv6 SIDs is > > needed.” > > > > Thanks > > > > Darren > > > > On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" > wrote: > > > > > > > > With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email > formally > > ends the adoption call that was announced at > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ > > > > for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression > > > > The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully. > > > > First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their > > active and energetic participation in this call.  That is what we > need. > > > > In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the > rough > > consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document. > > Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this > adoption, one > > of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of > which will > > cause some delay. > > > > The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > > > > which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group > > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs.  This policy applies to the > subject > > document.  It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whether > > this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy. > > As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible > working group > > for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect. > > fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area > directors > > are appointing authors for just such a document to address the > issue of > > the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291. > > Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft > > until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man > consumption of > > such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve > posting > > of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat. > > > > As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the > > document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most > > appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open > issues. As > > there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to > > describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section. > Once the > > draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of > > course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text. > Also, > > once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to > make > > sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the > > open issues section of the document. > > > > Expected text on Open Issues: > > > > Open Issues: > > > > Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are > > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies > > the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the > > working group to keep track of. > > > > As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a > work in > > progress, and subject to change by the working group.  As noted > at the > > front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use > Internet-Drafts as > > reference material" > > > > o Given that the working group has said that it wants to > standardize one > > data plane solution, and given that the document contains > multiple SRv6 > > EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data > > plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid > > and coherent with its one data plane solution objective. > > > > o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this > document is > > subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > >. > > In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG > last call > > until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals > with the > > relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291.  It is hoped and expected > that said > > resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a > > document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination > > address field. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > From nobody Fri Nov 5 12:26:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE593A0C64 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:26:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7fYfAB-Jb9XH for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x92c.google.com (mail-ua1-x92c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7DCA3A0C5B for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x92c.google.com with SMTP id ay21so18913753uab.12 for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 12:26:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UAI5OmyuW6ummMxuj72BKkXWMG75vosUH1+218Qsjk8=; b=FQSO1BNe9rr/MrhRDK4GVfISIkvRH7wNaYrSaADcHLowR1TFUq9O62VtDjuRptVn8F kMcsMB4oukv87LdCn0bXkEkKQi8ouhR6pJ01CNGHgVtx3JHgrMUpAqBvZPdazyAwtq1q CQNKyI7iBsqNHP1OnvIWyOWV7ReX2HB0LT61PlammAuCeoMDoWPhmeABjupoO5eZ3j9i RS/qDvqv5ymmgJoaavE2urEqFiu7DSE6b3wYpeGYXGwlkcyoFJw9d2TPx1nHaQjkUbhY wQat4hnasS4SDcpbXvDH/XSNOV/d9oxmqukNJQkcCW+P+EklA8jX5QlOwsTjmuLGpS43 AiPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UAI5OmyuW6ummMxuj72BKkXWMG75vosUH1+218Qsjk8=; b=rlx5UosYxadi5kOE9tbztfVRM2Xe8dWiMrT2f36GEoHUC6wv5VQI3/5MqiNHkwB9Lo kE5l8x/DNaIiEjkk59xK9oqh4b22fGpgzxDRN6QjkcGfH7aAkNJ/JS7eRCUzED1x2pEj YoiT8ZFQVkvH9jDKSkpX40oHKgvZbl0PX9xvIIyKDSdmJgOTsA2rMQyo36HsQGlSF3mg pW1UkSbUV4mTk8VSVn+Xi3Zb1g+1VJF89OlbeyXCH+tpYAuYwRBVbZyjS31fyv6r4etv vfLQCsr35WlBHdb7T6q6ZOFwlgdurw7JvGjdpAZ5wFNFaFgre9dSoAuFo3kmBRKTTp+r 1NjQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Z/bgi8pe9uU4A5jw1x5wbFmIBx9meWj72Tw2VWVBujbif6oy7 bkMVXfH2rJV7QZhpyb9Xj9YgAvPa7ObwLHRy/tVarO7FewF05g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwg7vPBcslWT6pUA+EWUmNgqTjjN9ShdWlI+25YsKvOqnhCNCvu00uxgKTg0Ltysoh2QxAigpxp5928SNdD+gM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:f07:: with SMTP id v7mr7115927vss.0.1636140362947; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 12:26:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 20:26:12 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000022f3f405d00f9d91" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 19:26:11 -0000 --00000000000022f3f405d00f9d91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok Joel - final question from me on this. Do you believe that **SRv6 data plane** exists or it does not exist and all we are dealing with is **IPv6** data plane** with some SRv6 extensions made to it ? Notice that the SPRING WG charter clearly talks about SRv6 data plane(s). I think this is fundamental and not only for C-SID draft, but for any other future SPRING WG document to be produced. Thx, R. On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 8:01 PM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Robert, as far as I can tell, no one other than you believes that "SRv6 > should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data plane." The SRH was > approved by 6man, whose only remit is the IPv6 data plane. Many > descriptions of SRv6 describe it as providing segment routing to IPv6. > And all SRv6 packets when carried on Ethernet use the IPv6 Ethertype. > > By any measure I can see, SRv6 is part of IPv6. Just as SR-MPLS is part > of MPLS. It is relevant that SRv6 in my understanding changes the > forwarding behavior of IPv6, and C-SID changes it significantly more. > But that doe snot mean it is not an extension of IPv6. > > More importantly in terms of the adoption call, the issue of the > relationship between C-SIDs and RFC 4291 was raised in such a way that I > concluded that even if I did not agree with the issue I would have to > recognize that it needed to be addressed. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/5/2021 2:46 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Dear Joel, > > > > It is clear that your personal view of the relevance of SID ARG content > > to IPv6 address differs from the view of many WG participants. > > > > To be very clear - whatever SPRING WG decides to put into SID ARG field > > it is completely orthogonal to IPv6 community as it has completely > > nothing to do with IPv6 addressing architecture. That is based on > > approved RFC 8986. > > > > We can call it c-sid, sid++, sid/4, rainbow and I am sure the list will > > grow with time. The entire concept of SRv6 NP is that the data plane > > will also need to be programmable. And yes at segment endpoints to > > properly process SRv6 packets plain IPv6 data plane support is not > > sufficient. SRv6 data plane must be in place. > > > > I think looking from the beginning of this discussions to me it is > > obvious that SRv6 should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data > > plane. To me this is new data plane however made in a > > backwards compatible way with IPv6 for the transit nodes. > > > > Kind regards, > > Robert > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 6:39 PM Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: > > > > Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must decline both > requests. > > > > On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING > > chairs > > policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the > > adoption conclusion. It is not reliant on the charter item, the > > question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer that > 6man > > provided. > > > > On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the adopted > document > > (and potentially holding up last call on the document, assuming as = I > do > > that we will get that far), is about this document. Which is about > > C-SIDs. If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question in thei= r > > document, that is their call. Our dependence is on the C-SID part = of > > that. I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that. In the > > unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship of > C-SIDs > > to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as that = is > > what we need to advance work on this compression document. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > > On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > > > Hello Joel, > > > > > > I want to make note of two suggestions, I=E2=80=99m copying the = list for > > record > > > keeping only. > > > > > > 1 =E2=80=93 The second bullet (beginning with =E2=80=9CAs remind= ed=E2=80=9D) should > > include the > > > link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/> > > > > > > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/>> > > and > > > their response > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/= > > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/3k8_1JgKGtnLsfsVf65qvReNuLc/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/3k8_1JgKGtnLsfsVf65qvReNuLc/>> > > > > > > 2 =E2=80=93 About the requirements for a document identifying th= e > > =E2=80=9Crelationship > > > of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.=E2=80=9D. The word =E2=80=9CC-SIDs=E2= =80=9D should be changed > > to =E2=80=9CSRv6 > > > SIDs=E2=80=9D in the sentences when such a document is discussed= . This > > would > > > better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: > > > > > > =E2=80=9CTo summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work c= ontinuing > in > > > SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].= =E2=80=9D > > > > > > And > > > > > > =E2=80=9C[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize = SRv6 SIDs > is > > > needed.=E2=80=9D > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email > > formally > > > ends the adoption call that was announced at > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ > >< > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ > >> > > > for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression > > > > > > The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully. > > > > > > First, let me thank all of the working group participants for > their > > > active and energetic participation in this call. That is what w= e > > need. > > > > > > In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the > > rough > > > consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this > document. > > > Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this > > adoption, one > > > of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of > > which will > > > cause some delay. > > > > > > The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last Mar= ch > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > >< > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > >> > > > which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working > group > > > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs. This policy applies to the > > subject > > > document. It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding > whether > > > this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this polic= y. > > > As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible > > working group > > > for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect. > > > fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area > > directors > > > are appointing authors for just such a document to address the > > issue of > > > the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291. > > > Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group > draft > > > until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man > > consumption of > > > such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve > > posting > > > of a working group ID with the addition according to the next > caveat. > > > > > > As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption t= he > > > document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the mo= st > > > appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open > > issues. As > > > there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about > how to > > > describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section. > > Once the > > > draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will > of > > > course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text. > > Also, > > > once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker t= o > > make > > > sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in > the > > > open issues section of the document. > > > > > > Expected text on Open Issues: > > > > > > Open Issues: > > > > > > Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft > are > > > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section > identifies > > > the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for th= e > > > working group to keep track of. > > > > > > As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a > > work in > > > progress, and subject to change by the working group. As noted > > at the > > > front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use > > Internet-Drafts as > > > reference material" > > > > > > o Given that the working group has said that it wants to > > standardize one > > > data plane solution, and given that the document contains > > multiple SRv6 > > > EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple > data > > > plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is > valid > > > and coherent with its one data plane solution objective. > > > > > > o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this > > document is > > > subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > >< > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > > < > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > >>. > > > In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG > > last call > > > until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals > > with the > > > relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291. It is hoped and expected > > that said > > > resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man > of a > > > document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 > destination > > > address field. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > < > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > --00000000000022f3f405d00f9d91 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok Joel - final=C2=A0question from me on th= is.=C2=A0

Do you believe that *SRv6 data plane*= =C2=A0exists=C2=A0or it does not exist and all we are dealing with is *I= Pv6 data plane* with some SRv6 extensions made to it ? Notice th= at the SPRING=C2=A0WG charter clearly talks about SRv6 data plane(s).=C2=A0

I think this is fundamental and not only for C-SI= D draft, but for any other future SPRING WG document to be produced.=C2=A0= =C2=A0

Thx,
R.







On Fri, Nov = 5, 2021 at 8:01 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
Robert, as far as I can tell, no one other than you b= elieves that "SRv6
should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data plane."=C2=A0 The S= RH was
approved by 6man, whose only remit is the IPv6 data plane.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Many=
descriptions of SRv6 describe it as providing segment routing to IPv6.
=C2=A0 And all SRv6 packets when carried on Ethernet use the IPv6 Ethertype= .

By any measure I can see, SRv6 is part of IPv6.=C2=A0 Just as SR-MPLS is pa= rt
of MPLS.=C2=A0 It is relevant that SRv6 in my understanding changes the forwarding behavior of IPv6, and C-SID changes it significantly more.
But that doe snot mean it is not an extension of IPv6.

More importantly in terms of the adoption call, the issue of the
relationship between C-SIDs and RFC 4291 was raised in such a way that I concluded that even if I did not agree with the issue I would have to
recognize that it needed to be addressed.

Yours,
Joel

On 11/5/2021 2:46 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Dear Joel,
>
> It is clear that your personal view of the relevance=C2=A0of SID ARG c= ontent
> to IPv6 address differs from the view of many WG participants.
>
> To be very clear - whatever SPRING WG decides to put into SID ARG fiel= d
> it is completely=C2=A0orthogonal to IPv6 community as it has completel= y
> nothing to do with IPv6 addressing architecture. That is based on
> approved RFC 8986.
>
> We can call it c-sid, sid++, sid/4, rainbow and I am sure the list wil= l
> grow with time. The entire concept of SRv6 NP is that the data plane <= br> > will also need to be programmable. And yes at segment endpoints to > properly process SRv6 packets plain IPv6 data plane support is not > sufficient. SRv6 data plane must be in place.
>
> I think looking from the beginning of this discussions to me it is > obvious that SRv6 should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data <= br> > plane. To me this is new data plane however made in a
> backwards=C2=A0compatible way with IPv6 for the transit nodes.
>
> Kind regards,
> Robert
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 6:39 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
> <mailto:jm= h@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must de= cline both requests.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On he first request, the bullet is derived from the= stated SPRING
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0chairs
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0policy, as was announced to the working group and i= s cited in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0adoption conclusion.=C2=A0 It is not reliant on the= charter item, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor t= he answer that 6man
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0provided.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On the second, the issue for holding up posting of = the adopted document
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(and potentially holding up last call on the docume= nt, assuming as I do
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that we will get that far), is about this document.= =C2=A0 Which is about
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0C-SIDs.=C2=A0 If 6man chooses to address the larger= SID question in their
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document, that is their call.=C2=A0 Our dependence = is on the C-SID part of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that.=C2=A0 I have been told C-SID will be dealt wi= th in that.=C2=A0 In the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0unlikely event that no document dealing with the re= lationship of C-SIDs
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to g= et one, as that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what we need to advance work on this compression do= cument.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote:=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Hello Joel,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I want to make note of two suggestions, I=E2= =80=99m copying the list for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0record
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > keeping only.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 1 =E2=80=93 The second bullet (beginning with= =E2=80=9CAs reminded=E2=80=9D) should
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0include the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > link to the questions asked of the 6man chair= s/ADs
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https= ://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<h= ttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/&= gt;
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<h= ttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<h= ttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/&= gt;>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > their response
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0htt= ps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/<= /a>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<h= ttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/3k8_1JgKGtnLsfsVf65qvReNuLc/<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<h= ttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/3k8_1JgKGtnLsfsVf65qvReNuLc/&= gt;>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 2 =E2=80=93 About the requirements for a docu= ment identifying the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=9Crelationship
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 The = word =E2=80=9CC-SIDs=E2=80=9D should be changed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to =E2=80=9CSRv6
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > SIDs=E2=80=9D in the sentences when such a do= cument is discussed.=C2=A0 This
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0would
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =E2=80=9CTo summarize: we do not object to C-= SID behavior work continuing in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document = described in [A].=E2=80=9D
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > And
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =E2=80=9C[A] A separate 6MAN document to clar= ify and categorize SRv6 SIDs is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > needed.=E2=80=9D
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Darren
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" &= lt;spring-boun= ces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org>> wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > With apologies to the working group for the d= elay, this email
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0formally
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > ends the adoption call that was announced at<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0htt= ps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/<= /a>><https://mailarch= ive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/<= /a>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compr= ession
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please= read carefully.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > First, let me thank all of the working group = participants for their
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > active and energetic participation in this ca= ll.=C2=A0 That is what we
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0need.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > In terms of the rough consensus of the feedba= ck we received, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0rough
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > consensus of the working group is that we sho= uld adopt this document.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Due to process concerns, I am placing two cav= eats on this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0adoption, one
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > of which can be easily dealt with by the auth= ors, and one of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0which will
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > cause some delay.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy= statement last March
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0htt= ps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/<= /a>><https://mailarch= ive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/<= /a>>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > which calls attention to the issue of conflic= t between working group
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs.=C2=A0 Th= is policy applies to the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0subject
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > document.=C2=A0 It is my judgment that the is= sues raised regarding whether
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > this work complies with RFC 4291 require adhe= rence to this policy.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (th= e responsible
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0working group
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disco= nnect.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > fortunately, we have been told that the 6man = chairs and area
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0directors
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > are appointing authors for just such a docume= nt to address the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0issue of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Therefore, I will not be approving posting of= the working group draft
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > until the author team has posted an initial t= ake for 6man
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0consumption of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > such a draft. Once they have posted that draf= t, I will approve
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0posting
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > of a working group ID with the addition accor= ding to the next caveat.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > As per the statement in the adoption call, as= part of adoption the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > document is required to have a section (an ap= pendix seems the most
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > appropriate, but placement will be up to the = editors) on open
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0issues. As
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > there is a lot of controversy about the open = issues, and about how to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > describe them, I am providing text (below) fo= r that section.=C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Once the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > draft is posted as a working group draft, the= working group will of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > course own the text, and WG rough consensus c= an change the text.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get= an issue tracker to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sure we keep track of all the issues, not jus= t the major ones in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > open issues section of the document.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Expected text on Open Issues:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Open Issues:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Issues raised during and after the adoption c= all for this draft are
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of= this section identifies
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > the most significant open issues, from the ad= option call, for the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > working group to keep track of.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > As a reminder to those reading this section, = this document is a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0work in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > progress, and subject to change by the workin= g group.=C2=A0 As noted
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0at the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > front of this document, "It is inappropr= iate to use
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Internet-Drafts as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > reference material"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > o Given that the working group has said that = it wants to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0standardize one
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > data plane solution, and given that the docum= ent contains
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0multiple SRv6
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have = stated are multiple data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > plane solutions, the working group will addre= ss whether this is valid
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > and coherent with its one data plane solution= objective.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > o As reminded in the conclusion of the adopti= on call, this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > subject to the policy announced by the SPRING= chairs in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0htt= ps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/<= /a>><https://mailarch= ive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/<= /a>>>.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > In particular, this means that this document = can not go to WG
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0last call
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > until 6man completes handling of an Internet = Draft that deals
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0with the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291.=C2=A0 It = is hoped and expected
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that said
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > resolution will be a WG last call and documen= t approval in 6man of a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > document providing for the way that C-SIDs us= e the IPv6 destination
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > address field.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _____________________________________________= __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/spring><https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/spring>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
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--00000000000022f3f405d00f9d91-- From nobody Fri Nov 5 12:34:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE423A0C8A for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:34:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.43 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.33, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AFEsPCUDWHYf for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 132173A0C7E for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Hm9gB4wQCz6G9N5; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:34:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636140854; bh=x412FPK9gnj8KrOD0BmU/bEaDLz35MoPH38REjxAkv0=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=QJBksN9rtFSM7U/JV4rHhmcWsRc4b/PPXOllBtR99Dw/UqDgwwER8zAjhSEBPvRk4 OFEw3HddaTr635tiPXqdlsi9OpLNEYcVXz+zTK6bER0pqik/mwe8TzsMLt4wJz52iQ tafK3haX3866hc4AHrpQ6MHrjheL2AZJ8LNCxf/k= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Hm9g94Kfrz6G9Kj; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 12:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74174c55-46ba-557c-253c-f65dfa7ec32e@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 15:34:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "spring@ietf.org" References: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> From: Joel Halpern Direct In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 19:34:20 -0000 As I understand the words, the SRv6 dataplane is that part of the IPv6 dataplane that is using SRv6. (If it were not for reduced mode, it would be that part that uses the SRH.) Yours, Joel On 11/5/2021 3:26 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Ok Joel - final question from me on this. > > Do you believe that **SRv6 data plane** exists or it does not exist and > all we are dealing with is **IPv6**data plane** with some SRv6 > extensions made to it ? Notice that the SPRING WG charter clearly talks > about SRv6 data plane(s). > > I think this is fundamental and not only for C-SID draft, but for any > other future SPRING WG document to be produced. > > Thx, > R. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 8:01 PM Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > Robert, as far as I can tell, no one other than you believes that "SRv6 > should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data plane."  The SRH was > approved by 6man, whose only remit is the IPv6 data plane.   Many > descriptions of SRv6 describe it as providing segment routing to IPv6. >   And all SRv6 packets when carried on Ethernet use the IPv6 Ethertype. > > By any measure I can see, SRv6 is part of IPv6.  Just as SR-MPLS is > part > of MPLS.  It is relevant that SRv6 in my understanding changes the > forwarding behavior of IPv6, and C-SID changes it significantly more. > But that doe snot mean it is not an extension of IPv6. > > More importantly in terms of the adoption call, the issue of the > relationship between C-SIDs and RFC 4291 was raised in such a way > that I > concluded that even if I did not agree with the issue I would have to > recognize that it needed to be addressed. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/5/2021 2:46 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Dear Joel, > > > > It is clear that your personal view of the relevance of SID ARG > content > > to IPv6 address differs from the view of many WG participants. > > > > To be very clear - whatever SPRING WG decides to put into SID ARG > field > > it is completely orthogonal to IPv6 community as it has completely > > nothing to do with IPv6 addressing architecture. That is based on > > approved RFC 8986. > > > > We can call it c-sid, sid++, sid/4, rainbow and I am sure the > list will > > grow with time. The entire concept of SRv6 NP is that the data plane > > will also need to be programmable. And yes at segment endpoints to > > properly process SRv6 packets plain IPv6 data plane support is not > > sufficient. SRv6 data plane must be in place. > > > > I think looking from the beginning of this discussions to me it is > > obvious that SRv6 should not be positioned as extension of IPv6 data > > plane. To me this is new data plane however made in a > > backwards compatible way with IPv6 for the transit nodes. > > > > Kind regards, > > Robert > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 6:39 PM Joel M. Halpern > > > >> wrote: > > > >     Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must decline both > requests. > > > >     On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING > >     chairs > >     policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the > >     adoption conclusion.  It is not reliant on the charter item, the > >     question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer > that 6man > >     provided. > > > >     On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the > adopted document > >     (and potentially holding up last call on the document, > assuming as I do > >     that we will get that far), is about this document.  Which is > about > >     C-SIDs.  If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question > in their > >     document, that is their call.  Our dependence is on the C-SID > part of > >     that.  I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that.  In the > >     unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship > of C-SIDs > >     to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as > that is > >     what we need to advance work on this compression document. > > > >     Yours, > >     Joel > > > >     On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > >      > Hello Joel, > >      > > >      > I want to make note of two suggestions, I’m copying the > list for > >     record > >      > keeping only. > >      > > >      > 1 – The second bullet (beginning with “As reminded”) should > >     include the > >      > link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs > >      > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ > > > >  > > > > >      > > > >   > > >  >> > >     and > >      > their response > >      > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ > > > >  > > > >   > > >  >> > >      > > >      > 2 – About the requirements for a document identifying the > >     “relationship > >      > of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.”.  The word “C-SIDs” should be > changed > >     to “SRv6 > >      > SIDs” in the sentences when such a document is discussed. > This > >     would > >      > better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: > >      > > >      > “To summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work > continuing in > >      > SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in > [A].” > >      > > >      > And > >      > > >      > “[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize > SRv6 SIDs is > >      > needed.” > >      > > >      > Thanks > >      > > >      > Darren > >      > > >      > On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" > >      >> wrote: > >      > > >      > > >      > > >      > With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email > >     formally > >      > ends the adoption call that was announced at > >      > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ > > > >  > > > >  >> > >      > for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression > >      > > >      > The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully. > >      > > >      > First, let me thank all of the working group participants > for their > >      > active and energetic participation in this call.  That is > what we > >     need. > >      > > >      > In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we > received, the > >     rough > >      > consensus of the working group is that we should adopt > this document. > >      > Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this > >     adoption, one > >      > of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of > >     which will > >      > cause some delay. > >      > > >      > The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement > last March > >      > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > > > >  > > > >  >> > >      > which calls attention to the issue of conflict between > working group > >      > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs.  This policy applies > to the > >     subject > >      > document.  It is my judgment that the issues raised > regarding whether > >      > this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this > policy. > >      > As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible > >     working group > >      > for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect. > >      > fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area > >     directors > >      > are appointing authors for just such a document to address the > >     issue of > >      > the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291. > >      > Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working > group draft > >      > until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man > >     consumption of > >      > such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve > >     posting > >      > of a working group ID with the addition according to the > next caveat. > >      > > >      > As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of > adoption the > >      > document is required to have a section (an appendix seems > the most > >      > appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open > >     issues. As > >      > there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and > about how to > >      > describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section. > >     Once the > >      > draft is posted as a working group draft, the working > group will of > >      > course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the > text. > >     Also, > >      > once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue > tracker to > >     make > >      > sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major > ones in the > >      > open issues section of the document. > >      > > >      > Expected text on Open Issues: > >      > > >      > Open Issues: > >      > > >      > Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this > draft are > >      > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section > identifies > >      > the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, > for the > >      > working group to keep track of. > >      > > >      > As a reminder to those reading this section, this document > is a > >     work in > >      > progress, and subject to change by the working group.  As > noted > >     at the > >      > front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use > >     Internet-Drafts as > >      > reference material" > >      > > >      > o Given that the working group has said that it wants to > >     standardize one > >      > data plane solution, and given that the document contains > >     multiple SRv6 > >      > EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are > multiple data > >      > plane solutions, the working group will address whether > this is valid > >      > and coherent with its one data plane solution objective. > >      > > >      > o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this > >     document is > >      > subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in > >      > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > > > >  > > > >  >>. > >      > In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG > >     last call > >      > until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals > >     with the > >      > relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291.  It is hoped and expected > >     that said > >      > resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in > 6man of a > >      > document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 > destination > >      > address field. > >      > > >      > _______________________________________________ > >      > spring mailing list > >      > spring@ietf.org > > > >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > >      > > >      >> > >      > > > > >     _______________________________________________ > >     spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > >      > > > > From nobody Fri Nov 5 21:11:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABFB53A11FA for ; 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Sat, 6 Nov 2021 04:11:15 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression Thread-Index: AQHXzm0rrAuJrHFs5E2Ay9SaUYq/dav0+C92gABDKICAAG+KmA== Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 04:11:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-CA X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: joelhalpern.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;joelhalpern.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5897eae6-99fd-4445-9784-08d9a0db7a40 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3187: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_BL1PR11MB5366D9DC900CD646A17D0632C88F9BL1PR11MB5366namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL1PR11MB5366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5897eae6-99fd-4445-9784-08d9a0db7a40 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Nov 2021 04:11:15.6820 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: +IVaArhoP2biMT74cifXretBh+yHzuMf/tAeG82lKbrvqB8qQDzKEN9Ahox0Z/huA73odxeLv8SEOgpivINh7A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB3187 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.20, xbe-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2021 04:11:44 -0000 --_000_BL1PR11MB5366D9DC900CD646A17D0632C88F9BL1PR11MB5366namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Joel, There may be some misunderstandings. Let me try to clarify. My first suggestion was to add links to the Second bullet in the appendix. = Can you read it again please? The response appears unrelated. Regarding the response to my second suggestion, I suggest we should be tech= nically correct in the issue description and use =93the relationship of SRv= 6 Sid=92s to rfc4291=94. While SPRINGs concern was CSID, we asked 6man chai= rs and ADs about that, and the response was as quoted - a clarifying docume= nt for SRv6 SIDs. If we are to track this, we should reflect the answers gi= ven and remaining issue, would you agree? Sincerely Darren. ________________________________ From: Joel M. Halpern Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 1:39 PM To: Darren Dukes (ddukes); spring@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-s= pring-srv6-srh-compression Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must decline both requests. On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING chairs policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the adoption conclusion. It is not reliant on the charter item, the question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer that 6man provided. On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the adopted document (and potentially holding up last call on the document, assuming as I do that we will get that far), is about this document. Which is about C-SIDs. If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question in their document, that is their call. Our dependence is on the C-SID part of that. I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that. In the unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as that is what we need to advance work on this compression document. Yours, Joel On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > Hello Joel, > > I want to make note of two suggestions, I=92m copying the list for record > keeping only. > > 1 =96 The second bullet (beginning with =93As reminded=94) should include= the > link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ > = and > their response > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/= > > 2 =96 About the requirements for a document identifying the =93relationsh= ip > of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.=94. The word =93C-SIDs=94 should be changed to = =93SRv6 > SIDs=94 in the sentences when such a document is discussed. This would > better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: > > =93To summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work continuing in > SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].=94 > > And > > =93[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize SRv6 SIDs is > needed.=94 > > Thanks > > Darren > > On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" wrote: > > > > With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email formally > ends the adoption call that was announced at > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/= > for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression > > The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully. > > First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their > active and energetic participation in this call. That is what we need. > > In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the rough > consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document. > Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this adoption, one > of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of which will > cause some delay. > > The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/= > which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs. This policy applies to the subject > document. It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whether > this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy. > As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible working group > for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect. > fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area directors > are appointing authors for just such a document to address the issue of > the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291. > Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft > until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man consumption of > such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve posting > of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat. > > As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the > document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most > appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open issues. As > there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to > describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section. Once the > draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of > course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text. Also, > once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to make > sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the > open issues section of the document. > > Expected text on Open Issues: > > Open Issues: > > Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies > the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the > working group to keep track of. > > As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a work in > progress, and subject to change by the working group. As noted at the > front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as > reference material" > > o Given that the working group has said that it wants to standardize one > data plane solution, and given that the document contains multiple SRv6 > EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data > plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid > and coherent with its one data plane solution objective. > > o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this document is > subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/= = . > In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG last call > until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals with the > relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291. It is hoped and expected that said > resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a > document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination > address field. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --_000_BL1PR11MB5366D9DC900CD646A17D0632C88F9BL1PR11MB5366namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joel,

There may be some misunderstandings. Let me try to clarify= . 

My first suggestion was to add links to the S= econd bullet in the appendix. Can you read it again please? The response appears unrelated. 
Regarding the response to my second suggestion, I suggest= we should be technically correct in the issue description and use =93the relationship of SRv6 Sid=92s to rfc4291=94. While SPRINGs concern was CSID= , we asked 6man chairs and ADs about that, and the response was as quoted -= a clarifying document for SRv6 SIDs. If we are to track this, we should re= flect the answers given and remaining issue, would you agree?

Sincerely
  Darren. 
From: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 1:39 PM
To: Darren Dukes (ddukes); spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfils= cheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression
 
Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must d= ecline both requests.

On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING chairs policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the
adoption conclusion.  It is not reliant on the charter item, the
question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer that 6man
provided.

On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the adopted document (and potentially holding up last call on the document, assuming as I do that we will get that far), is about this document.  Which is about C-SIDs.  If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question in their <= br> document, that is their call.  Our dependence is on the C-SID part of =
that.  I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that.  In the=
unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as that is
what we need to advance work on this compression document.

Yours,
Joel

On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote:
> Hello Joel,
>
> I want to make note of two suggestions, I=92m copying the list for rec= ord
> keeping only.
>
> 1 =96 The second bullet (beginning with =93As reminded=94) should incl= ude the
> link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/=
> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shlo= DqpyRk-xWHniw/> and
> their response
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/3k8_1JgKGtnLsfsV= f65qvReNuLc/>
>
> 2 =96 About the requirements for a document identifying the =93relatio= nship
> of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.=94.  The word =93C-SIDs=94 should be cha= nged to =93SRv6
> SIDs=94 in the sentences when such a document is discussed.  This= would
> better match the 6man chairs/ADs response:
>
> =93To summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work continuing in=
> SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].=94
>
> And
>
> =93[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize SRv6 SIDs is=
> needed.=94
>
> Thanks
>
> Darren
>
> On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" <spring-bounces@ietf.or= g> wrote:
>
>
>
> With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email formally=
> ends the adoption call that was announced at
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/&l= t;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/= >
> for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression
>
> The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully.
>
> First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their > active and energetic participation in this call.  That is what we= need.
>
> In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the rough=
> consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document.<= br> > Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this adoption, on= e
> of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of which wil= l
> cause some delay.
>
> The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/&l= t;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/= >
> which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group > efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs.  This policy applies to the = subject
> document.  It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whe= ther
> this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy.
> As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible working gro= up
> for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect.
> fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area directors=
> are appointing authors for just such a document to address the issue o= f
> the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.
> Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft<= br> > until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man consumption = of
> such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve posting=
> of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat.<= br> >
> As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the
> document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most
> appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open issues. = As
> there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to<= br> > describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section. &nbs= p; Once the
> draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of > course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text. = Also,
> once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to make=
> sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the > open issues section of the document.
>
> Expected text on Open Issues:
>
> Open Issues:
>
> Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are > tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies<= br> > the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the
> working group to keep track of.
>
> As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a work i= n
> progress, and subject to change by the working group.  As noted a= t the
> front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Draf= ts as
> reference material"
>
> o Given that the working group has said that it wants to standardize o= ne
> data plane solution, and given that the document contains multiple SRv= 6
> EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data<= br> > plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid<= br> > and coherent with its one data plane solution objective.
>
> o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this document is=
> subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/&l= t;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/= >.
> In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG last cal= l
> until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals with the=
> relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291.  It is hoped and expected tha= t said
> resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a > document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination > address field.
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring<https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/spring>
>
--_000_BL1PR11MB5366D9DC900CD646A17D0632C88F9BL1PR11MB5366namp_-- From nobody Fri Nov 5 22:05:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5705F3A12B6 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:05:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.33, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UKYsBDo0dPmi for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A6FE3A12B1 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HmQLf2MR2z1ntws; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:05:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636175146; bh=pDbUAJ2KEEBonpCU1yYuG55BfNn/fRjJo4fils/Mgno=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=puWsLHcrcKVaXVYisCv34q93nnI9GmF8oh61X3ZqupWMSvdLUZw+rg5OwMmz1KH0I QW6HOylt0UzAoC91VFkkxMBABzOinnqeW0Bd6EVYOQdgq56HDxjlRy/xXUYs1JdLim kkDPFewlXacSBh7O03MMGdNnj90N6TCRdSbR/WQ0= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4HmQLd5Vbzz1nttV; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <69d11ee8-b38c-3578-4cee-b9039401f7d4@joelhalpern.com> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 01:05:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: <7bab18c1-7f45-3e8f-791e-2d3020303631@joelhalpern.com> <9cac6ddc-f153-54e0-8536-62f1f5955630@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2021 05:05:52 -0000 I presume I am misunderstanding something about your requests. Your first request is that I add to the second open issue links to the question I asked 6man, and the answer they provided. I replied that was inappropriate as the topic which leads to the second open issue is not that question and answer (which was based on the SPRING charter text), but rather the open issue is based on the SPRING policy the SPRING chairs described last March, to which I linked. Since the open issue itself is not based on the Q&A, I don't understand why you want that exchanged linked from the issue. You now say that my answer is non-responsive. Since it appears responsive to me, I do not understand your comment. (At this point I should also add that I hope that my efforts to find different ways to explain this does not create confusion by accident. The above and the below are not in intended in any way to change either by prior answer, or more importantly the original announcement.) Similarly, you then assert that it is technically correct to say that the technical issue driving the open issue for this document is the general issue of SID compatibility with RFC 4291. I understand that 6man is looking at the general issue. However, the block for this document is the C-SID relationship. It may be that the 6man more general work will also affect this document. If so, we will deal with that. But the blocking question that I understand from the SPRING policy is the interaction of this document with RFC 4291. You seem to be inviting me to declare a halt on all SRv6 related work until 6man makes progress. As that question is not relevant to this document, I am not going there. Given that you chose to repeat your questions, as I said above I presume you see another perspective. If you care to explain, I will listen. But I do not currently see any reason to change the text requested for the open issues section. Yours, Joel On 11/6/2021 12:11 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > Hi Joel, > > There may be some misunderstandings. Let me try to clarify. > > My first suggestion was to add links to the Second bullet in the > appendix. Can you read it again please? The response appears unrelated. > > Regarding the response to my second suggestion, I suggest we should be > technically correct in the issue description and use “the relationship > of SRv6 Sid’s to rfc4291”. While SPRINGs concern was CSID, we asked 6man > chairs and ADs about that, and the response was as quoted - a clarifying > document for SRv6 SIDs. If we are to track this, we should reflect the > answers given and remaining issue, would you agree? > > Sincerely >   Darren. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Joel M. Halpern > *Sent:* Friday, November 5, 2021 1:39 PM > *To:* Darren Dukes (ddukes); spring@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Conclusion of Adoption call for > draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression > Darren, while I appreciate your requests, I must decline both requests. > > On he first request, the bullet is derived from the stated SPRING chairs > policy, as was announced to the working group and is cited in the > adoption conclusion.  It is not reliant on the charter item, the > question I asked 6man about the charter item, nor the answer that 6man > provided. > > On the second, the issue for holding up posting of the adopted document > (and potentially holding up last call on the document, assuming as I do > that we will get that far), is about this document.  Which is about > C-SIDs.  If 6man chooses to address the larger SID question in their > document, that is their call.  Our dependence is on the C-SID part of > that.  I have been told C-SID will be dealt with in that.  In the > unlikely event that no document dealing with the relationship of C-SIDs > to RFC 4291 appears, then we will work out how to get one, as that is > what we need to advance work on this compression document. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/5/2021 10:17 AM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: >> Hello Joel, >> >> I want to make note of two suggestions, I’m copying the list for record >> keeping only. >> >> 1 – The second bullet (beginning with “As reminded”) should include the >> link to the questions asked of the 6man chairs/ADs >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/merG-RgtA3shloDqpyRk-xWHniw/ > >> > > and >> their response >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/z_3nbdwVQ_V66ZqkV-ZhIg7kakA/ > > >> >> 2 – About the requirements for a document identifying the “relationship >> of C-SIDs with RFC 4291.”.  The word “C-SIDs” should be changed to “SRv6 >> SIDs” in the sentences when such a document is discussed.  This would >> better match the 6man chairs/ADs response: >> >> “To summarize: we do not object to C-SID behavior work continuing in >> SPRING, we simply need a clarifying document described in [A].” >> >> And >> >> “[A] A separate 6MAN document to clarify and categorize SRv6 SIDs is >> needed.” >> >> Thanks >> >> Darren >> >> On 2021-10-31, 11:37 AM, "spring" wrote: >> >> >> >> With apologies to the working group for the delay, this email formally >> ends the adoption call that was announced at >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/-tvDZ5biRXvfLlyJ8IMtX-7EUp4/ > > >> for draft-filsfilscheng-spring-srv6-srh-compression >> >> The conclusion is somewhat unusual, so please read carefully. >> >> First, let me thank all of the working group participants for their >> active and energetic participation in this call.  That is what we need. >> >> In terms of the rough consensus of the feedback we received, the rough >> consensus of the working group is that we should adopt this document. >> Due to process concerns, I am placing two caveats on this adoption, one >> of which can be easily dealt with by the authors, and one of which will >> cause some delay. >> >> The SPRING working group chairs sent a policy statement last March >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > > >> which calls attention to the issue of conflict between working group >> efforts and existing PS or BCP RFCs.  This policy applies to the subject >> document.  It is my judgment that the issues raised regarding whether >> this work complies with RFC 4291 require adherence to this policy. >> As such, we need a draft in front of 6man (the responsible working group >> for RFC 4291) that addresses the raised disconnect. >> fortunately, we have been told that the 6man chairs and area directors >> are appointing authors for just such a document to address the issue of >> the relationship of C-SIDs with RFC 4291. >> Therefore, I will not be approving posting of the working group draft >> until the author team has posted an initial take for 6man consumption of >> such a draft. Once they have posted that draft, I will approve posting >> of a working group ID with the addition according to the next caveat. >> >> As per the statement in the adoption call, as part of adoption the >> document is required to have a section (an appendix seems the most >> appropriate, but placement will be up to the editors) on open issues. As >> there is a lot of controversy about the open issues, and about how to >> describe them, I am providing text (below) for that section.   Once the >> draft is posted as a working group draft, the working group will of >> course own the text, and WG rough consensus can change the text.  Also, >> once we have a WG draft I will arrange to get an issue tracker to make >> sure we keep track of all the issues, not just the major ones in the >> open issues section of the document. >> >> Expected text on Open Issues: >> >> Open Issues: >> >> Issues raised during and after the adoption call for this draft are >> tracked in an issue tracker. The remainder of this section identifies >> the most significant open issues, from the adoption call, for the >> working group to keep track of. >> >> As a reminder to those reading this section, this document is a work in >> progress, and subject to change by the working group.  As noted at the >> front of this document, "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as >> reference material" >> >> o Given that the working group has said that it wants to standardize one >> data plane solution, and given that the document contains multiple SRv6 >> EndPoint behaviors that some WG members have stated are multiple data >> plane solutions, the working group will address whether this is valid >> and coherent with its one data plane solution objective. >> >> o As reminded in the conclusion of the adoption call, this document is >> subject to the policy announced by the SPRING chairs in >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vCc9Ckvwu5HA-RCleV712dsA5OA/ > >. >> In particular, this means that this document can not go to WG last call >> until 6man completes handling of an Internet Draft that deals with the >> relationship of C-SIDs to RFC 4291.  It is hoped and expected that said >> resolution will be a WG last call and document approval in 6man of a >> document providing for the way that C-SIDs use the IPv6 destination >> address field. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > >> From nobody Sun Nov 7 10:41:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBA63A106A; 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Sun, 07 Nov 2021 10:41:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=zoWWsZ0ySXr6KTXJDHblo2IvW7Eq0Kkp14m+uuUO/Gc=; b=IpOHdNRLwWBkIftIX8XostdxgsWql4sUYC7UKibiuZIlrihv7i53gOcs34DxauuAl/ ePdbO1i7ILhrsgd2YmI97OpVHIUhnvOtYA3PgyHsDStpRZXRn/KzlNTpZecVb2z/tnOM ehn14DC9+jGoqLUZW9BS0XXvEgB9jI8Jks3+6cHLvicPBVaLivt/Z7WgEWF+VCqUtqPZ 3E4N/vTC0ZdlBf5zCU1XtnJbm0u9qV824273yU81XUxjCviNziHbP718EHlSfySI7AVm IR85bt6iUEflKUj3g0KaYk/zW3HCvYO2SFjg1elJM+RWeXuhAJwVrhVBGeOyPmeuIEDT APtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=zoWWsZ0ySXr6KTXJDHblo2IvW7Eq0Kkp14m+uuUO/Gc=; b=ADSTrF1C6sXJpP2jfh20FG4FqyejEbW1gJGpkg3qkikCjoCGg8tPOha/dRO386a8x1 IgV7vxM6WCpmqc1+X2I7hcnKeBjt7Qd/VbWXNmwpRmw268lPao2lqxMn7rkMdCvgGKPI CsUaJrrVxIK9qfZnAgJNspRRenFvY7LSGwH5//DONigPk/D51lM6j6oWSXv9MStC/M9J 7ycczNCSXTED6pxi4IdWj/W9sCaEObWbB2KiWqhVIULxTgp99ICfL2RJaKtCw2H1rnbE NRx8L7dpn9st1ITyQtLuVUTrCs4s78cFt+XSyt/yHjYrYPnRX/4s5reaDN8wCBQ7uQG3 EotQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532whXxwm/5jrTA50ssWd5qsKuQqc1CUXjUA4gzCE7HsXh3vmG6C NvhhjzF4620azVhVywoLNfdB9hAQ/cLJBrx+Vrj6RynR X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw/xJSE7Iq2ZD3uRPG+Mu+GsgYRa10cb3Sord4kxu5jblMbEQzFbeFLiHoba4EY5ymup3LwSmOt3CRIqX/TNiQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:327:: with SMTP id q7mr88119782edw.126.1636310480278; Sun, 07 Nov 2021 10:41:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:41:08 -0800 Message-ID: To: spring@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-stamp-srpm@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org, ippm-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eb567605d0373805" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] A question about the draft-ietf-spring-stamp-srpm X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 18:41:31 -0000 --000000000000eb567605d0373805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, I've read the latest available version of the draft and I still cannot find the answer I've asked during the WG AP of this document: What is the value the publication of this informational document can add? Besides ASCII-art figures, I find references to RFCs (though the normative reference to the experimental RFC doesn't seem helpful) and one IPPM WG document but nothing that is specific to the Segment Routing or STAMP. What am I missing? Regards, Greg --000000000000eb567605d0373805 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
I've read the latest available versi= on of the draft and I still cannot find=C2=A0 the answer I've asked dur= ing the WG AP of this document:
What is the value the publication of th= is informational document can add?
Besides ASCII-art figu= res, I find references to RFCs (though the normative reference to the exper= imental RFC doesn't seem helpful) and one IPPM WG document but nothing = that is specific to the Segment Routing or STAMP. What am I missing?
<= div>
Regards,
Greg
--000000000000eb567605d0373805-- From nobody Sun Nov 7 12:01:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0123A0A8D; Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:01:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07Ghg-G6TbF7; Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF45C3A096D; Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id c8so37428726ede.13; Sun, 07 Nov 2021 12:01:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+RZHO6gyik4SraLrkJJdV1fQnn+rZL5oQuIhH5Beu0k=; b=Mnd3k+e8rCvwi1RkbdcuZ+jawM5zZoxumtvzvFmUQ8I2Ea2sLRHtWCiQR4sIXYJHta TXffWJXfLpEv2l8psiKiaLn3ClqnneCENxLjsbfYuCKG9JVHaRdamegsy0nuGSzSamSr KaqhbMa32Lz5es0Oa0Cnza/dvYnT1DN0WCb3/Q64lXgxyAzQoGZe7yTO2ZuoxIilWzgP lU+5iCPrp+6JCH6bOPbM0lJ+2Y3/xXlZr4QCLxkedYZEo7zrAsT/OvaTLhm3E3n/QBG0 0PrpEBYESxdGcjFvlOenvTmrKK9UMVxJ0zt0/9WFZjjvtcUFRcC2gWXP90x2m+bcr0jo H7gw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+RZHO6gyik4SraLrkJJdV1fQnn+rZL5oQuIhH5Beu0k=; b=WhaExOKD4DXSv2QpL3Tj5BF4HViKvctTsETkX8CCarlr2SRe/XadVEyt/82ZdLe2kB WNFM2kDagn3zee1DpG7DxWkd1mCmfQs8bh28XZL/mbp6yWLvHcYB1ODLoXqa2iWG3P1y UqG1cRW8CgjLGkYoqyzL+ndG+uQk1Ll7SjN67dh5RAAPyzSoRkt7bPM0LnxmMogkzoaP EPbiE9BvR4+PVorRI3QQahMkl7zmSmGrxhNuV9I51zJVri7z7VkxfM4vKNJJYncQSUSK 9ngbVpPDgmYNamACSjxhmj3HC1ei1KM4is1xLuosfCgk+21MEs9C10u1hyLh2Op1tgEL 4G6A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532wCKcGPUjEyx7Y6yBhcTkLLcFu4Z4R8sXo80tuu9qPRqeib7z2 kGcqwUtvsCrDW01z1u9bnusblmn9Q6eK8bjlixyFeufyNxc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzQKsZJY15CPfzi2l+9IlRVMg+zR1y72MPu6RL0VJW+LWzg7ImmZaY1+/YM5XRwWEp9fryzXhpJ9iVXl34Akhk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:327:: with SMTP id q7mr88694210edw.126.1636315263474; Sun, 07 Nov 2021 12:01:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:00:51 -0800 Message-ID: To: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000051d5805d03856a6" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 20:01:30 -0000 --000000000000051d5805d03856a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Authors et al. thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you see as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark ? Regards, Greg --000000000000051d5805d03856a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors et al.
thank you for thi= s document. I am supporting and following the work on the Alternate Marking= method in various IETF WGs. What do you=C2=A0see as the benefits of defini= ng a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking method compared to solutions def= ined for IPv6 in=C2=A0draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark?

Regards,
Greg
--000000000000051d5805d03856a6-- From nobody Mon Nov 8 01:13:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4803A0C93; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 01:13:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P3bQVofwX9Uw; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 01:13:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5033B3A0CC8; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 01:13:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml713-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.201]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Hnll416tkz67xsG; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 17:13:04 +0800 (CST) Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) by fraeml713-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 10:13:03 +0100 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 10:13:03 +0100 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Greg Mirsky , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHX1BJeVfBSFNc150ypxJn7OzA8a6v5Oc3g Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 09:13:02 +0000 Message-ID: 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 We=20will=20have=20a=20side=20meeting= =20to=20discuss=20Multicast=20Segment=20Routing=20over=20IPv6(MSR6)=20on=20= Friday=2013:00-14:30=20UTC.

Agenda,=20related=20documents=20and=20other=20information=20o= f=20the=20side=20meeting=20could=20be=20found:https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112side= meetings .

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Best=20Regards

Yisong



------=_001_NextPart634953099_=------ From nobody Mon Nov 8 05:57:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC103A0907; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 05:57:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 91F3cfZZcbFs; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 05:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D8CE3A0906; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 05:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id ee33so63065796edb.8; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 05:57:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fpr0D22VDVl0q/3bDU+TZBFtXo3ZP8tHZUi1E4jWV04=; b=Pf0A14WVLegtligse3DLI+yTXeZ0YkrFwtMle9k+DCljgJiuv+P/Dt4AeOFij1d11D gWLQWwNxvUA20OqTOx4bkYc3nav9Wj9GKiKhHuceukEeNttQi/+SV0bRYqznM6APJpEM XSA71FcmZTbBB7khOhk16oEAlpDcnzwUzab0wDgIwgJfl97hbxj+VTUmUMCwiPaIZaYn GXfX/j9I0uQjISsFVIlJhz0gRKyK+ZHXxe1LVEGOn8Kz0R4iwaIM981twk3CrmeC79Ce xvIvjElr3B1NVWhZpAshJmaHwMav0vYR78/x0zn+PavH3H6vHw5qIE+dGKuJHRwloRkn PcjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fpr0D22VDVl0q/3bDU+TZBFtXo3ZP8tHZUi1E4jWV04=; b=YxGKZ2qipbnULvUzBChCA1++lodGV0kJnu9OpVhoCdhsXEAwUyINDSZeE9PQJ10h25 FKnMejGvjLTFi0+611b3DBnCjfZAUQn13P76BQ1V6M108pIHJkknk/+2LCMVqiHHHuzo M1tQawvc+7eheQDRQodU9ZJ1O/gzTXWRmM+yn2ntlvXGJf+cyUFPW6qwjCXNfzlbEN5e cLsRiLraOcicMbBPdUjOT9EmNsFyhaXIoCiH8H6/GlxRNwHvlP32VSmIS12uBzek17oB eyOquK/UM58gdH02Y3uxZE5h6SH4H7Tgg+zIJNQmH7jdLnSwAVrEWSWuvvk4UChzwcS7 r+tA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531FNOXUTb4Q+glSamDeUydhx84ailfPrs2heXtT5jJ0eD9NAVL6 y5fHWJSIJpge0/apM6Mf/zgN0DYIlqEZKzfNC0YqO8Kh X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw8O6TkSt/pKIPb6+ZHwVP7jwzf8PMBLu7r7v/kNlm8JdTda5uV0xxU6dUayxugEPIAKN4LGPOi5tUidKGUfSI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:912:: with SMTP id i18mr45404ejd.131.1636379836935; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 05:57:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 05:57:05 -0800 Message-ID: To: Giuseppe Fioccola Cc: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e5ef4805d0475e91" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 13:57:25 -0000 --000000000000e5ef4805d0475e91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Giuseppe, thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an SR Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMark processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing something? Regards, Greg On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola < giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Thank you for your comment. > > It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of SRH, DOH > + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every node that is an > identity in the SR path. > > But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and this > can have operational implications. > > The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best suits > for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted, this > document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for SRv6: > > - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark through SRH > TLV, > > - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the HbH > and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > ipv6@ietf.org > *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Dear Authors et al. > > thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work on the > Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you see as the > benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking method > compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > ? > > > > Regards, > > Greg > --000000000000e5ef4805d0475e91 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Giuseppe,
thank you for the detailed explanation of= what the authors consider as the problem. In the presentation, you've = mentioned that the new AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which n= odes along an SR Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the = HbH IPv6 extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to achi= eve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMark processing= . What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing something?
=
Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM = Giuseppe Fioccola <giuse= ppe.fioccola@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

Thank you for your comment.<= /u>

It is very good to have your su= pport on this draft.

draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark d= efines the AltMark DOH. In case of SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement = the measurement for every node that is an identity in the SR path.

But, the approach with DOH + SR= H requires two extension headers and this can have operational implications= .

The goal of this draft is to fi= nd an optimized solution that best suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to u= se the SRH TLV. If accepted, this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mar= k only for SRv6:

- in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark through= SRH TLV,

- while for all the ot= her cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the HbH and DOH is the only choic= e to carry AltMark data fields.

=C2=A0

R= egards,

<= u>=C2=A0

G= iuseppe

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM
To: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark<= /p>

=C2=A0

Dear Authors et al.

thank you for this document. I am supporting and fol= lowing the work on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What d= o you=C2=A0see as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate = Marking method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in=C2=A0draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark?<= /u>

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

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boundary="_000_CO1PR13MB49202C660B5B13C076425A1E85919CO1PR13MB4920namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR13MB4920.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a0f8eb74-3c39-4d3a-3646-08d9a2c04dc7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Nov 2021 14:01:46.7686 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: lXNYp1U8lQI0s4mg1pVkOwGk7Yjy6+ctuvt6M8ZND4DgxbQkht0mu1yzpSqVXaNtoSDL6cGsh6/aAKVUNLmXNw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MW5PR13MB5415 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] questions to draft-li-teas-intent-based-routing X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 14:02:03 -0000 --_000_CO1PR13MB49202C660B5B13C076425A1E85919CO1PR13MB4920namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robin, Thank you very much for the nice presentation. Continue the question I asked during the SPRING Session, is the "INTENT" i= n your draft meant to identify the characteristics of the flow that the pac= ket belongs to? Such as a packet has a "INTENT" value to indicate that it b= elongs to a flow that needs high bandwidth, or another "INTENT" value indic= ating that the packet belongs to a flow that requires low latency? Who inject the "INTENT" value into the packets? Is it based on some policie= s? If yes, can a node use the same "policies" to steer the packet instead o= f using "INTENT" value? Thank you very much, Linda Dunbar --_000_CO1PR13MB49202C660B5B13C076425A1E85919CO1PR13MB4920namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robin,

 

Thank you very much for the nice presentation. =

 

Continue the question I asked during the SPRING Sess= ion, is the  “INTENT” in your draft meant to identify the = characteristics of the flow that the packet belongs to? Such as a packet ha= s a “INTENT” value to indicate that it belongs to a flow that needs high bandwidth, or another “INTENT” value indi= cating that the packet belongs to a flow that requires low latency?

 

 

Who inject the “INTENT” value into the p= ackets? Is it based on some policies? If yes, can a node use the same ̶= 0;policies” to steer the packet instead of using “INTENT”= value?

 

Thank you very much,

 

Linda Dunbar

 

--_000_CO1PR13MB49202C660B5B13C076425A1E85919CO1PR13MB4920namp_-- From nobody Mon Nov 8 08:50:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07FC3A11EA; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 08:50:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O1LUBlNaz1Vb; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 08:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 865B43A11E5; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 08:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.201]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Hnxnj4Bbzz67NKY; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 00:46:01 +0800 (CST) Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) by fraeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 17:50:45 +0100 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 17:50:45 +0100 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Greg Mirsky CC: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHX1BJeVfBSFNc150ypxJn7OzA8a6v5Oc3ggABeUICAACRW8A== Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 16:50:45 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b=Q9DN3amze3w1MFU1+Amul/4SSYwAGwfLOSXeu1jCqacXniQfVU0vrHOC4UIRG+yUYT U2Z3s1YcxANKqFzGg/+5v8E1P/KqMHjEVevTcg57vh7emHmz6jJ7qRW7A73XIgAakwMu Fyj/rveREqYocVrne8Pgm5ZWfi+su7nncp7PVO1l8IZ23kmGHYwQxjPs2MZmNhOHs7sD 1xhNzyMLdstjl38TNvtU8GrlLieX34xl9NYwLSmPubg0BSq8gJhoPI7yhkxkDu5MS0EC 0cY0YleR8gxOXlyK0DTUs2F5k2jGOjCKj882ox7kV4IvXvFP2r455SAyyGDFFsx8z/Jx OrDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GXM+cusX22D6jejsC1J1WvJR83ylyYd8T6Is+D13NaM=; b=W1/CspLwUhSra6ZC6Yt6QIHlPu+/b1sn30Mz9Tx13tIqAZvg6v80JbFb/EcReQ9aX1 tdj9UKs7lavAuOpdLHrfUEHFLqeMdnew9zW9vjEx8YFySj+udVVEnM0lKf8nTF1uPwry qEmUlabYPwGUHJ9J1wy4Y588mnUbBOZC4yudolsgPikbyJEuJ/MK1DFzmWTFTzR554GP KW1vI9zGSD//yTmcAoXreE1Um1JXaWKwsdg5DcsLUKhLhjyWsAcOXgPKPDgN/TU8bscg QgfydK9yBRqE6AhzPPr4+s2Wc7hPN+jr38C5j76esc+AOPj6isKTh/Sm2DkfI++kCaoL Jxuw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533NBhi1uuydsAi3k0J+PDQ2TGCr97t3sp+9WWCi5bHGioiU6U+f cYz30izBDqXNQezyd/GSmCZjucRReKbe5BfRhYU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxQH4H2pbHJAvQZBBthPmIkpQ/Tv6Ck29xjv0brx+qhShdU6nRlQyZ4JuegUyhCBzQYfuYtfAXRsx+DkML5Npo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3e10:: with SMTP id hp16mr984571ejc.477.1636391841668; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 09:17:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 09:17:10 -0800 Message-ID: To: Giuseppe Fioccola Cc: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006fa36505d04a2af6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 17:17:29 -0000 --0000000000006fa36505d04a2af6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Giuseppe, thank you for the clarification. I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination of the packet. I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep it disabled on transit nodes. Regards, Greg On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola < giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi Greg, > > The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, with the > AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on the path > with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the measurement to every > nodes in the path and not only to the nodes that are identities in the SR > path. > > While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it is > possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the route > list. This means that, when the AltMark Destination Option precedes the > SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that are identities in > the SR path. > > The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be an > optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV capability, > without adding an additional EH that can be a problem in some cases. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > ipv6@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Hi Giuseppe, > > thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider as the > problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new AltMark SRH TLV > allows for better control of which nodes along an SR Policy participate in > the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 extension header that includes > the AltMark TLV can be used to achieve the same result if only SR nodes are > enabled for the AltMark processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? > Am I missing something? > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola < > giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com> wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Thank you for your comment. > > It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of SRH, DOH > + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every node that is an > identity in the SR path. > > But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and this > can have operational implications. > > The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best suits > for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted, this > document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for SRv6: > > - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark through SRH > TLV, > > - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the HbH > and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > ipv6@ietf.org > *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Dear Authors et al. > > thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work on the > Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you see as the > benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking method > compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > ? > > > > Regards, > > Greg > --0000000000006fa36505d04a2af6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Giuseppe,
thank you for the clarif= ication.
I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end= node of a segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200:
note 3: for options to be processed only by the fina= l destination of the packet.
I recall the dis= cussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it.
My proposal to u= se HbH EH included the use of the management plane to explicitly enable Alt= Marking only on segment end-points and keep it disabled on transit nodes.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 = at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

The use of HbH EH does not fit = well in the case of SRH. Indeed, with the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on the path= with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to = the nodes that are identities in the SR path.

While, with the Destinat= ion Option preceding a Routing Header, it is po= ssible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the route list= . This means that, when the AltMark Destination Option prec= edes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all= the nodes that are identities in the SR path.

The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be an optimized soluti= on for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV capability, without ad= ding an additional EH that can be a problem in some cases.

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Giuseppe

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM
To: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>
Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark<= /u>

=C2=A0

Hi Giuseppe,

thank you for the detailed explanation of what the a= uthors consider as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned t= hat the new AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along = an SR Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 extension header that includes the AltMark TLV= can be used to achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for th= e AltMark processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing s= omething?

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

=C2=A0

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola <= ;giuseppe= .fioccola@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

Thank you for your comment.

It is very good to have your su= pport on this draft.

draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark d= efines the AltMark DOH. In case of SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement = the measurement for every node that is an identity in the SR path.

But, the approach with DOH + SR= H requires two extension headers and this can have operational implications= .

The goal of this draft is to fi= nd an optimized solution that best suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to u= se the SRH TLV. If accepted, this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mar= k only for SRv6:

- in case of SRH there would be a single w= ay to apply AltMark through SRH TLV,

- while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the Hb= H and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields.

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Giuseppe

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM
To: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv= 6@ietf.org
Subject: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark<= /p>

=C2=A0

Dear Authors et al.

thank you for this document. I am supporting and fol= lowing the work on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What d= o you=C2=A0see as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in= =C2=A0draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark?

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

--0000000000006fa36505d04a2af6-- From nobody Mon Nov 8 11:29:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F50B3A0D64; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 11:28:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k0052n7a2CkX; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 11:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 362BA3A0D61; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 11:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml709-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Hp1KP37VKz67JVD; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 03:25:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) by fraeml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 20:28:45 +0100 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 20:28:44 +0100 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Greg Mirsky CC: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHX1BJeVfBSFNc150ypxJn7OzA8a6v5Oc3ggABeUICAACRW8IAAE5IAgAAu24A= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 19:28:44 +0000 Message-ID: <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.48.216.149] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01behuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 19:28:54 -0000 --_000_3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01behuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgR3JlZywNClllcywgd2l0aCBET0ggKyBTUkgsIHRoZSBlbmQgbm9kZSBvZiBhIHNlZ21lbnQg 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L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01behuaweicom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 8 14:41:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B923A0DB3; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 14:41:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wf7m3KwON74Y; 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draft-gandhi-spring-stamp-srpm@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ff55b805d04eaf48" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] A question about using the STAMP in the loopback mode X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 22:41:10 -0000 --000000000000ff55b805d04eaf48 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rakesh, Authors et al, I much appreciate it if you can help me understand what is expected to be standardized in Section 4.2.3 of the draft. As I understand it, the transmitting test probe node constructs a packet that it receives back without any modification. It appears that there's no interaction with any other node in the network is defined. It is not clear how that is related to STAMP. As I can see, a test probe in the loopback mode can be anything since that is completely local to the sending system decision. As a result, I cannot find what needs standardization in that mechanism. I further have a question about the quality of the delay measurement that the loopback method can provide. It appears that you are concerned with how local processing at the STAMP Session-Reflector affects the accuracy of the measurement. But the STAMP enables a real one-way delay measurement that provides accurate statistical information about the condition of the particular path. The loopback method described in Section 4.2.3 measures the round-trip delay and, as a result, the accuracy of the downstream one-way delay is impacted by the choice of the upstream part of the engineered route that loops the test probe back to the sender. As a result, using the loopback mechanism may produce measurements that don't represent the network conditions in the downstream direction, on the path that is of interest and the real importance to the operator. The loopback mode may be producing results that are very far from the real conditions, lowering or inflating the measured delay. I am looking forward to your feedback. Regards, Greg --000000000000ff55b805d04eaf48 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rakesh, Authors et al,
I much appreciate it if you = can help me understand what is expected to be standardized in Section 4.2.3 of the draft. As I understand it, the=C2=A0transmi= tting=C2=A0test probe node constructs a packet that it receives back withou= t any modification. It appears that there's no interaction with any oth= er node in the network is defined. It is not clear how that is related to S= TAMP. As I can see, a test probe in the loopback mode can be anything since= that is completely local to the sending system decision. As a result, I ca= nnot find what needs standardization in that mechanism.
I further= have a question about the quality of the delay measurement that the loopba= ck method can provide. It appears that you are concerned with how local pro= cessing at the STAMP Session-Reflector affects the accuracy of the measurem= ent. But the STAMP enables a real one-way delay measurement that provides a= ccurate statistical=C2=A0information about the condition of the particular = path. The loopback method described in Section 4.2.3 measures the round-tri= p delay and, as a result, the accuracy of the downstream one-way delay is i= mpacted by the choice of the upstream part of the engineered=C2=A0route tha= t loops the test probe back to the sender. As a result, using the loopback = mechanism may produce measurements that don't represent the network con= ditions in the downstream direction, on the path that is of interest and th= e real importance to the operator. The loopback mode may be producing resul= ts that are very far from the real conditions, lowering or inflating the me= asured delay.

I am looking forward to your feedbac= k.

Regards,
Greg


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with ESMTPS id 6DC2C3A0418; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 19:32:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxct.zte.com.cn (unknown [192.168.164.217]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id D12E88E24A772B2FAD73; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:32:12 +0800 (CST) Received: from mse-fl2.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.14.239]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id B7E224F7A731909B17B3; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:32:12 +0800 (CST) Received: from njxapp02.zte.com.cn ([10.41.132.201]) by mse-fl2.zte.com.cn with SMTP id 1A93Vwen086148; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:31:58 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn) Received: from mapi (njxapp05[null]) by mapi (Zmail) with MAPI id mid201; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:31:58 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:31:58 +0800 (CST) X-Zmail-TransId: 2afd6189ebae2576ad1e X-Mailer: Zmail v1.0 Message-ID: <202111091131582189249@zte.com.cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-MAIL: mse-fl2.zte.com.cn 1A93Vwen086148 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Questions_about_REPLACEB6_of_draft-salih-spri?= =?utf-8?q?ng-srv6-inter-domain-sids?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 03:32:28 -0000 Hi authors, Thanks for bringing SRv6 SID swaping idea in the distributed scenario. I think there is valid case when the target prefix originated from remote domain is invisible or unreachable to the intermediate nodes of the local domain, and the intermediate nodes of the local domain have routes to the REPLACE SID allocated by the border node of the local domain. However, the question as I raised at the meeting, REPLACEB6 may be not necessary, because it is the local behavior of the BGP speaker to swap a single SID or a segment list. It may be not appropriate to advertise prefix with REPLACE behavior to the upstream neighbor at time-1, and re-advertise the same prefix with REPLACEB6 behavior at time-2 just because its forwarding information is changed from a single outgoing SID to a SID list. Otherwise, it will cause excessive advertisement overhead in the network. Just like MPLS BGP-LU, the difference of a single outgoing label or an outgoing label stack at the local node is not aware by upstream node. There may be some reasons for re-advertisement, such as the need to announce a new metric, but these reasons do not support the need for REPLACEB6. 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Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:02:46 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" , "draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids Thread-Index: AQHX1Rp0tGBxbCmnqkGv0qN5NpxMbqv7ONkX Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:02:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <202111091131582189249@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: <202111091131582189249@zte.com.cn> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-CA X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 209c9946-5484-42c2-c5b1-08d9a3899b9b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3444: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_BL1PR11MB5366F713F915BA8C49B4212EC8929BL1PR11MB5366namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL1PR11MB5366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 209c9946-5484-42c2-c5b1-08d9a3899b9b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Nov 2021 14:02:46.4586 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: uoTgA5s1gfceu4LkmNOTkK+TU5dh5wNlCVv+U2Pb4Y0SdrZZjdR8sl/G2DSj+uyQxw+AM7V63GxGF+gtmu2wcA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB3444 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.18, xbe-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 14:03:33 -0000 --_000_BL1PR11MB5366F713F915BA8C49B4212EC8929BL1PR11MB5366namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peng, your question is part of why I asked for some descriptions of how = an SR Source chooses a SID of one of these behaviors vs another. I think w= e=92ll know more once we see that. Darren On 2021-11-08, 10:32 PM, "spring" wrote: Hi authors, Thanks for bringing SRv6 SID swaping idea in the distributed scenario. I think there is valid case when the target prefix originated from remote d= omain is invisible or unreachable to the intermediate nodes of the local do= main, and the intermediate nodes of the local domain have routes to the REP= LACE SID allocated by the border node of the local domain. However, the question as I raised at the meeting, REPLACEB6 may be not nece= ssary, because it is the local behavior of the BGP speaker to swap a single= SID or a segment list. It may be not appropriate to advertise prefix with REPLACE behavior to the = upstream neighbor at time-1, and re-advertise the same prefix with REPLACEB= 6 behavior at time-2 just because its forwarding information is changed fro= m a single outgoing SID to a SID list. Otherwise, it will cause excessive a= dvertisement overhead in the network. Just like MPLS BGP-LU, the difference= of a single outgoing label or an outgoing label stack at the local node is= not aware by upstream node. There may be some reasons for re-advertisement, such as the need to announc= e a new metric, but these reasons do not support the need for REPLACEB6. Regards, PSF _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --_000_BL1PR11MB5366F713F915BA8C49B4212EC8929BL1PR11MB5366namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Peng, your question is part = of why I asked for some descriptions of how an SR Source chooses a SID of o= ne of these behaviors vs another.  I think we=92ll know more once we s= ee that.

 

Darren

 

On 2021-11-08, 10:32 PM= , "spring" <spring-bounces@ietf.org> wrote:



Hi authors,

Thanks for bringing SRv6 SID swaping idea in the distributed scenario.

I think there is valid case when the target prefix originated from remote d= omain is invisible or unreachable to the intermediate nodes of the local do= main, and the intermediate nodes of the local domain have routes to the REP= LACE SID allocated by the border node of the local domain.

However, the question as I raised at the meeting, REPLACEB6 may be not nece= ssary, because it is the local behavior of the BGP speaker to swap a single= SID or a segment list.

It may be not appropriate to advertise prefix with REPLACE behavior to the = upstream neighbor at time-1, and re-advertise the same prefix with REPLACEB= 6 behavior at time-2 just because its forwarding information is changed fro= m a single outgoing SID to a SID list. Otherwise, it will cause excessive advertisement overhead in the net= work. Just like MPLS BGP-LU, the difference of a single outgoing label or a= n outgoing label stack at the local node is not aware by upstream node.

There may be some reasons for re-advertisement, such as the need to announc= e a new metric, but these reasons do not support the need for REPLACEB6.
Regards,
PSF

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/spring

--_000_BL1PR11MB5366F713F915BA8C49B4212EC8929BL1PR11MB5366namp_-- From nobody Tue Nov 9 07:31:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEAC13A03FA; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:31:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.43 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.33, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2US1Od9ZPUfm; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C09643A045B; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HpX4k2mcjz6G9Lh; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:31:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636471862; bh=3ePamhSZRH2YzkaVFjnNtpiP+Dqcs9cSzHfTSoEMnpA=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=eTr+iajriQirugpYiqVhW0k5ieYuA8RMX8cum2PctditmqeHEeiEilCppR+Pqm8oU XCdr6svwAuvsm9ZrKWzKX9vEBgE3xTYeNCu1s5XuzsslO5QgTgv7jMK1ApOfhEUscb rzrkNUpYV8F06b3UHgBoAoUO33dzgBaSECQD+qac= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4HpX4j53Nnz6G8rM; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:31:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 10:30:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Giuseppe Fioccola Cc: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" In-Reply-To: <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 15:31:13 -0000 Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way. And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. Assumptions as I understand them: 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also support the 6man altMark If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability. This strikes me as a bad trade. Yours, Joel On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform to > RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > > The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark. > > Regards, > > Giuseppe > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > Hi Giuseppe, > > thank you for the clarification. > > I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a > segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > > note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination of > the packet. > > I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. > > My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane to > explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep it > disabled on transit nodes. > > Regards, > > Greg > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, with > the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on > the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nodes > that are identities in the SR path. > > While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it is > possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the > route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Option > precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that > are identities in the SR path. > > The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be > an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a problem in > some cases. > > Regards, > > Giuseppe > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > ; spring@ietf.org > ; ipv6@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > Hi Giuseppe, > > thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider > as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new > AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an SR > Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 > extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to > achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMark > processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing > something? > > Regards, > > Greg > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > > wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Thank you for your comment. > > It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of > SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every > node that is an identity in the SR path. > > But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and > this can have operational implications. > > The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best > suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted, > this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for SRv6: > > - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark > through SRH TLV, > > - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the > HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > Regards, > > Giuseppe > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > ; spring@ietf.org > ; ipv6@ietf.org > *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > Dear Authors et al. > > thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work > on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you see > as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking > method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > ? > > Regards, > > Greg > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Tue Nov 9 07:39:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4746D3A0A10; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:39:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z4yKFNsod-kI; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E648C3A0AEE; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml710-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HpXBK1yD7z67x2x; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 23:35:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by fraeml710-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 16:39:25 +0100 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 23:39:23 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Giuseppe Fioccola CC: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark , spring , ipv6 Thread-Topic: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHX1BJdF7QH+ez4kU2nZMz3ifw+lqv402gAgABPXYCAADCFgIAAB2IAgAAkwgCAAU/nAIAAiHeN Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:39:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4fb5396f0e2f44f68e35a78ca4cb26d8@huawei.com> References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com>, <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4fb5396f0e2f44f68e35a78ca4cb26d8huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" 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<573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:40:32 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: Giuseppe Fioccola , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 15:41:05 -0000 On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way. > And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. > Assumptions as I understand them: > > 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases > 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also support > the 6man altMark > > If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH TLV > adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability. > This strikes me as a bad trade. +1 Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that they work with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work in the narrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might be defined. Tom > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > > > Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform to > > RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > > > > The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Hi Giuseppe, > > > > thank you for the clarification. > > > > I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a > > segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > > > > note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination of > > the packet. > > > > I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. > > > > My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane to > > explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep it > > disabled on transit nodes. > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, with > > the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on > > the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > > measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nodes > > that are identities in the SR path. > > > > While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it is > > possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the > > route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Option > > precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that > > are identities in the SR path. > > > > The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be > > an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > > capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a problem in > > some cases. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > > > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > > > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > ; spring@ietf.org > > ; ipv6@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Hi Giuseppe, > > > > thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider > > as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new > > AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an SR > > Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 > > extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to > > achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMark > > processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing > > something? > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > Thank you for your comment. > > > > It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of > > SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every > > node that is an identity in the SR path. > > > > But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and > > this can have operational implications. > > > > The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best > > suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted, > > this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for SRv6: > > > > - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark > > through SRH TLV, > > > > - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the > > HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > > > *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > > *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > ; spring@ietf.org > > ; ipv6@ietf.org > > *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Dear Authors et al. > > > > thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work > > on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you see > > as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking > > method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Nov 9 07:57:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4118C3A0898; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:57:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K4Y0c58ZZkVS; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:57:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D02C43A088F; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id f4so78272233edx.12; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 07:56:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1+9cbeJYb1nIsN8odkEPNQtedV2vrbCFFqyqXe8PsV0=; b=Irpca/m1Y9rl7N5Ke5NsmTt/TQoHTH4pLY1OwuBMNd3omtku2ysD5nE4UKqlct8P22 S7oeBKBhu1rKVyMtCXC10wSYpNNAwbvUj/dI9o8Dl/yf3JSbmCf6Mko7LW7bmPWQ9U+B Ft/5X19wjsLLMiDEbQu+Jq5evtKyyEd6Ck0G+4V1/5/ulbwzid7ZZkjfavZ1uvS+sLPS 06XVEQhZG2iDOQki8TBSibqgmGnUfA/uMz9e/KRZnPqZQIhVxuH5jJxz8vd7kwFv9qvF 8GJF5kYIOMmy175MK64gftPVnmaoVdppD2uzJ9Ll367YL4mnLCPRaEvaFH0kPhwxr9EJ ogSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1+9cbeJYb1nIsN8odkEPNQtedV2vrbCFFqyqXe8PsV0=; b=Q3NN7+/JZWRnwE9pMbnFk5MrmT3Mlfp5w04VODAwoPPZeNJ56YMyKlBfwGWBVV80tr 8aw7jo5ZbE8jcRGyJxD6RrJ1LzWWYNT0s9E/3MxNYrY7fsbAorYbnq44VsFAGP6ZeY0J PE/SM+0Hqtb57ZErEBAk7K1619M8+ClP6ji5Dzg0IE37KT3Vf36D1jFfzlJL5DRx6NvZ 15LnWzYtYDQ9C2S/fMPCHC4UzrCgm0R3NTXDt5Ntt/WdNd5xu6DwTZr3kZTLCAwzJZmH EgY3qkngbgDxjBZ+/RH+HBVhgqSpGbzr+8XItTJM4yo58GyjhdrdPoe5Ia/fm21KXSte X8xg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532TDSZW3uCzAcnr5DLg//3g07Oi2WYNdWECMx0WsbrVRELmyq5j QmKfSfF/oyuXlxNX6tBy8XLHVQ+YqyZh/yFF+2iCBE0+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxIwoo/3c8rpkIbD5P5qL7IphiI3sGd34Y62M1X3C09qzIS4oLzwJTRjyMmDukQbIP1I+Jr57v+Bz6BhPTlzAs= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:7e44:: with SMTP id z4mr5693234ejr.539.1636473395290; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 07:56:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> <4fb5396f0e2f44f68e35a78ca4cb26d8@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5396f0e2f44f68e35a78ca4cb26d8@huawei.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 07:56:23 -0800 Message-ID: To: Tianran Zhou Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , Giuseppe Fioccola , draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark , spring , ipv6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000069240205d05d274b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 15:57:27 -0000 --00000000000069240205d05d274b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tianran, such a combination seems very strange to me. A vendor decides to support the AltMarking in SRv6 (SRH TLV) but not in IPv6? Possible but, IMHO, unlikely decision. Regards, Greg On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:39 AM Tianran Zhou wrote: > > Assumption 2 is not correct. We assume there are nodes support srh but no= t hbh and doh. > > > Best, > Tianran > > ------------------------------ > > Sent from WeLink > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A *Joel M. Halpern > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A *Giuseppe Fioccola > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A *draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark >;spring;ipv6 > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A *Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt= -mark > *=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A *2021-11-09 23:31:20 > > Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way. > And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. > Assumptions as I understand them: > > 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases > 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also support > the 6man altMark > > If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH TLV > adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability. > This strikes me as a bad trade. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > > > Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform to > > RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > > > > The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > ipv6@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Hi Giuseppe, > > > > thank you for the clarification. > > > > I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a > > segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > > > > note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination o= f > > the packet. > > > > I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. > > > > My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane to > > explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep it > > disabled on transit nodes. > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > >> wrote: > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, wit= h > > the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on > > the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > > measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nodes > > that are identities in the SR path. > > > > While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it i= s > > possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the > > route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Option > > precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that > > are identities in the SR path. > > > > The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be > > an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > > capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a problem i= n > > some cases. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > >> > > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > >> > > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > >; spring@ietf.org > > >; ipv6@ietf.org < > mailto:ipv6@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Hi Giuseppe, > > > > thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider > > as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new > > AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an S= R > > Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 > > extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to > > achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMar= k > > processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing > > something? > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > >> > > wrote: > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > Thank you for your comment. > > > > It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of > > SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every > > node that is an identity in the SR path. > > > > But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and > > this can have operational implications. > > > > The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best > > suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted= , > > this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for > SRv6: > > > > - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark > > through SRH TLV, > > > > - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the > > HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > >> > > *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > > *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > >; spring@ietf.org > > >; ipv6@ietf.org < > mailto:ipv6@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Dear Authors et al. > > > > thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work > > on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you se= e > > as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking > > method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --00000000000069240205d05d274b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tianran,
such a combination seems very strange to m= e. A vendor decides to support=C2=A0the AltMarking in SRv6 (SRH TLV) but no= t in IPv6? Possible but, IMHO, unlikely decision.

= Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:39 AM Tianran Zhou &= lt;zhoutianran@huawei.com>= wrote:
Assumption=C2=A02=C2=A0i= s=C2=A0not=C2=A0correct.=C2=A0We=C2=A0assume=C2=A0there=C2=A0are=C2=A0nodes= =C2=A0support=C2=A0srh=C2=A0but=C2=A0not=C2=A0hbh=C2=A0and=C2=A0doh.=


Best,
Tianran=C2=A0


Sent=C2=A0from=C2=A0WeLi= nk
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Joel M. Halpern<jmh@joelhalpern.com&g= t;
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Giuseppe Fioccola<giuseppe.fiocc= ola@huawei.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark<d= raft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org>;spring<spring@ietf.org>;ipv6<ipv6@ietf.org>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-= srv6-alt-mark
=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A 2021-11-09 23:31:20

Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way.=
And this is as a participant, not as co-chair.
Assumptions as I understand them:

1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases
2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also support the 6man altMark

If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability.
This strikes me as a bad trade.

Yours,
Joel

On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform to=
> RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN.
>
> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-= mark.
>
> Regards,
>
> Giuseppe
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM
> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark
>
> Hi Giuseppe,
>
> thank you for the clarification.
>
> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a > segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200:
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 note 3: for options to be processed only by th= e final destination of
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the packet.
>
> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it.=
>
> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane to =
> explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep it > disabled on transit nodes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola
> <= giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com <mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>>= wrote:
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi Greg,
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the cas= e of SRH. Indeed, with
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to moni= tor every router on
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the path with feature enabled, so it potential= ly allows the
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 measurement to every nodes in the path and not= only to the nodes
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 that are identities in the SR path.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 While, with the Destination Option preceding a= Routing Header, it is
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 possible to apply the measurement to every des= tination node in the
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark D= estination Option
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement fo= r all the nodes that
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 are identities in the SR path.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH= + SRH, but it can be
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an optimized solution for SRH since it leverag= es the SRH TLV
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 capability, without adding an additional EH th= at can be a problem in
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 some cases.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Regards,
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Giuseppe
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.co= m
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org<= /a>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf= .org>; spring@i= etf.org
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-= srv6-alt-mark
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi Giuseppe,
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 thank you for the detailed explanation of what= the authors consider
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as the problem. In the presentation, you'v= e mentioned that the new
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of w= hich nodes along an SR
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Policy participate in the measurement. I imagi= ne that the HbH IPv6
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 extension header that includes the AltMark TLV= can be used to
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 achieve the same result if only SR nodes are e= nabled for the AltMark
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 processing. What do you think of using the HbH= EH? Am I missing
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 something?
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Regards,
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Greg
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fiocco= la
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com <mailto:giuseppe.fioccol= a@huawei.com>>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 wrote:
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi Greg,
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thank you for your comment.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It is very good to have your support on this d= raft.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltM= ark DOH. In case of
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the me= asurement for every
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 node that is an identity in the SR path.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two = extension headers and
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 this can have operational implications.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The goal of this draft is to find an optimized= solution that best
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the= SRH TLV. If accepted,
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv= 6-alt-mark only for SRv6:
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - in case of SRH there would be a single way t= o apply AltMark
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 through SRH TLV,
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data= plane the use of the
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMar= k data fields.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Regards,
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Giuseppe
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org<= /a>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf= .org>; spring@i= etf.org
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6= -alt-mark
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Dear Authors et al.
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 thank you for this document. I am supporting a= nd following the work
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 on the Alternate Marking method in various IET= F WGs. What do you=C2=A0see
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for = the Alternate Marking
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 = in
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark/>?
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Regards,
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Greg
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6<= br> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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Halpern" , Giuseppe Fioccola , draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark , spring , ipv6 Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHX1BJdF7QH+ez4kU2nZMz3ifw+lqv402gAgABPXYCAADCFgIAAB2IAgAAkwgCAAU/nAIAAiHeN//9+o4CAAIjyOA== Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 16:06:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> <4fb5396f0e2f44f68e35a78ca4cb26d8@huawei.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_d453e412198347e396bb82bcf360fd27huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 16:06:45 -0000 --_000_d453e412198347e396bb82bcf360fd27huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBhbSBub3Qgc2F5aW5nIGFsdCBtaywgYnV0IGdlbmVyaWMgY2FzZS4gSSBrbm93IG1ham9yIGNo aXAgdmVuZG9ycyBjYW4gc3VwcG9ydCBzcmggYnV0IG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0IGhiaCBub3IgZG9oLg0K DQpUaGF0oa9zIHdoeSBoYmggcGFja2V0cyBlYXNpbHkgdG8gYmUgZHJvcHBlZC4gVGhpcyBpcyBj b25zZW5zdXMgaW4gbXkgb3Bpbmlvbi4NCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXw0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gV2VMaW5rDQq3orz+yMujuiBHcmVnIE1pcnNreTxncmVnaW1pcnNr eUBnbWFpbC5jb208bWFpbHRvOmdyZWdpbWlyc2t5QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4+DQrK1bz+yMujuiBUaWFu cmFuIFpob3U8emhvdXRpYW5yYW5AaHVhd2VpLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86emhvdXRpYW5yYW5AaHVhd2Vp LmNvbT4+DQqzrcvNo7ogSm9lbCBNLiBIYWxwZXJuPGptaEBqb2VsaGFscGVybi5jb208bWFpbHRv OmptaEBqb2VsaGFscGVybi5jb20+PjtHaXVzZXBwZSBGaW9jY29sYTxnaXVzZXBwZS5maW9jY29s YUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPG1haWx0bzpnaXVzZXBwZS5maW9jY29sYUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPj47ZHJhZnQt 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I am not say= ing alt mk, but generic case. I know&nbs= p;major chip vendors can support srh but = ;not support hbh nor doh.

That=A1=AFs why h= bh packets easily to be dropped. This is=  consensus in my opinion.



Sent from WeLink<= /span>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Greg Mirsky<gregimirsky@gmail.com>
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Tianran Zhou<zhoutianran@huawei.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA Joel M. Halpern<jmh@joelhalpern.com>;Giuseppe Fioccola<giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>;dr= aft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark<draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org>;spring<spring@ietf.org>;ipv6<ipv6@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-= srv6-alt-mark
=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2021-11-09 23:57:14

Hi Tianran,
such a combination seems very strange to me. A vendor decides to suppo= rt the AltMarking in SRv6 (SRH TLV) but not in IPv6? Possible but, IMH= O, unlikely decision.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:39 AM Tianra= n Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com= > wrote:
Assumption = 2 is not correct. We assume there are&nb= sp;nodes support srh but not hbh and doh= .


Best,
Tianran 

Sent from WeL= ink
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Joel M. Halpern<jmh@joelhalpern.com>
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Giuseppe Fioccola<giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.c= om>
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark<draft-fz-s= pring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org>;spring<spring@ietf.org>;ipv6<ipv6@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-= mark
=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2021-11-09 23:31:20

Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way.=
And this is as a participant, not as co-chair.
Assumptions as I understand them:

1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases
2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also support the 6man altMark

If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability.
This strikes me as a bad trade.

Yours,
Joel

On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still confor= m to
> RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN.
>
> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-= mark.
>
> Regards,
>
> Giuseppe
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM
> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; <= a href=3D"mailto:ipv6@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"> ipv6@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark
>
> Hi Giuseppe,
>
> thank you for the clarification.
>
> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a=
> segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200:
>
>     note 3: for options to be processed only by th= e final destination of
>     the packet.
>
> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it.=
>
> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane to =
> explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep it > disabled on transit nodes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola
> <= giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com <mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>>= wrote:
>
>     Hi Greg,
>
>     The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the cas= e of SRH. Indeed, with
>     the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to moni= tor every router on
>     the path with feature enabled, so it potential= ly allows the
>     measurement to every nodes in the path and not= only to the nodes
>     that are identities in the SR path.
>
>     While, with the Destination Option preceding a= Routing Header, it is
>     possible to apply the measurement to every des= tination node in the
>     route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark D= estination Option
>     precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement fo= r all the nodes that
>     are identities in the SR path.
>
>     The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH= + SRH, but it can be
>     an optimized solution for SRH since it leverag= es the SRH TLV
>     capability, without adding an additional EH th= at can be a problem in
>     some cases.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Giuseppe
>
>     *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com
>     <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>     *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM
>     *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.co= m
>     <mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>>
>     *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf= .org>; spring@ietf.org >     <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org&g= t;
>     *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-= srv6-alt-mark
>
>     Hi Giuseppe,
>
>     thank you for the detailed explanation of what= the authors consider
>     as the problem. In the presentation, you've me= ntioned that the new
>     AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of w= hich nodes along an SR
>     Policy participate in the measurement. I imagi= ne that the HbH IPv6
>     extension header that includes the AltMark TLV= can be used to
>     achieve the same result if only SR nodes are e= nabled for the AltMark
>     processing. What do you think of using the HbH= EH? Am I missing
>     something?
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Greg
>
>     On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fiocco= la
>     <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com <mailto:giuseppe.fioccol= a@huawei.com>>
>     wrote:
>
>     Hi Greg,
>
>     Thank you for your comment.
>
>     It is very good to have your support on this d= raft.
>
>     draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltM= ark DOH. In case of
>     SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement th= e measurement for every
>     node that is an identity in the SR path.
>
>     But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires = two extension headers and
>     this can have operational implications.
>
>     The goal of this draft is to find an optimized= solution that best
>     suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the= SRH TLV. If accepted,
>     this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv= 6-alt-mark only for SRv6:
>
>     - in case of SRH there would be a single way t= o apply AltMark
>     through SRH TLV,
>
>     - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data= plane the use of the
>     HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMar= k data fields.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Giuseppe
>
>     *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com
>     <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>     *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM
>     *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf= .org>; spring@ietf.org >     <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org&g= t;
>     *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6= -alt-mark
>
>     Dear Authors et al.
>
>     thank you for this document. I am supporting a= nd following the work
>     on the Alternate Marking method in various IET= F WGs. What do you see
>     as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for = the Alternate Marking
>     method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 = in
>     draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark
>     <https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark/>?
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Greg
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >
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Tue, 9 Nov 2021 16:10:28 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" , "draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids Thread-Index: AQHX1Rp07E3MFS6VlU28YJml2AMXY6v7OrwAgAAiuKA= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 16:10:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <202111091131582189249@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.6.300.5 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2021-11-09T16:10:24Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; 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boundary="_000_CO1PR05MB831400144DEAA3E5EA5D01EAD5929CO1PR05MB8314namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR05MB8314.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ca6545d3-7fe0-4891-23c0-08d9a39b7276 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Nov 2021 16:10:28.4641 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: C7nHZDeL22ZDCWtcISXZi+uGDHICY6PTMi1wc73atJUTdWY4t16/+eIj1p70s9GBfsocyN6GU9kBhISiWKCK+g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR05MB2800 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 1tSMT4WhQ1Hmb5vs3I-gG8SIBlItiGpD X-Proofpoint-GUID: 1tSMT4WhQ1Hmb5vs3I-gG8SIBlItiGpD X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.790,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.0.607.475 definitions=2021-11-09_03,2021-11-08_02,2020-04-07_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2111090093 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 16:10:39 -0000 --_000_CO1PR05MB831400144DEAA3E5EA5D01EAD5929CO1PR05MB8314namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peng, The choice to advertise REPLACE or REPLACEB6 is not based on the sid-list o= n which it is resolving. We will update the draft with details and examples for all the SIDs to clar= ify. You can review the updated draft and we can discuss if you have further que= stions. Rgds Shraddha Juniper Business Use Only From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 7:33 PM To: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn; draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids@ietf.= org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-= inter-domain-sids [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Peng, your question is part of why I asked for some descriptions of how = an SR Source chooses a SID of one of these behaviors vs another. I think w= e'll know more once we see that. Darren On 2021-11-08, 10:32 PM, "spring" > wrote: Hi authors, Thanks for bringing SRv6 SID swaping idea in the distributed scenario. I think there is valid case when the target prefix originated from remote d= omain is invisible or unreachable to the intermediate nodes of the local do= main, and the intermediate nodes of the local domain have routes to the REP= LACE SID allocated by the border node of the local domain. However, the question as I raised at the meeting, REPLACEB6 may be not nece= ssary, because it is the local behavior of the BGP speaker to swap a single= SID or a segment list. It may be not appropriate to advertise prefix with REPLACE behavior to the = upstream neighbor at time-1, and re-advertise the same prefix with REPLACEB= 6 behavior at time-2 just because its forwarding information is changed fro= m a single outgoing SID to a SID list. Otherwise, it will cause excessive a= dvertisement overhead in the network. Just like MPLS BGP-LU, the difference= of a single outgoing label or an outgoing label stack at the local node is= not aware by upstream node. There may be some reasons for re-advertisement, such as the need to announc= e a new metric, but these reasons do not support the need for REPLACEB6. Regards, PSF _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --_000_CO1PR05MB831400144DEAA3E5EA5D01EAD5929CO1PR05MB8314namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Peng,

 

The choice to advertise REPLACE or REPLACEB6 is not = based on the sid-list on which it is resolving.

We will update the draft with details and examples f= or all the SIDs to clarify.

You can review the updated draft and we can discuss = if you have further questions.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) <ddukes@cisco.= com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 7:33 PM
To: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn; draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sid= s@ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-sprin= g-srv6-inter-domain-sids

 

<= span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",= sans-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]=

 

Hi Peng, your question is part of why I asked for so= me descriptions of how an SR Source chooses a SID of one of these behaviors= vs another.  I think we’ll know more once we see that.

 

Darren

 

On 2= 021-11-08, 10:32 PM, "spring" <spring-bounces@ietf.org> wrote:

 

Hi a= uthors,

Thanks for bringing SRv6 SID swaping idea in the distributed scenario.

I think there is valid case when the target prefix originated from remote d= omain is invisible or unreachable to the intermediate nodes of the local do= main, and the intermediate nodes of the local domain have routes to the REP= LACE SID allocated by the border node of the local domain.

However, the question as I raised at the meeting, REPLACEB6 may be not nece= ssary, because it is the local behavior of the BGP speaker to swap a single= SID or a segment list.

It may be not appropriate to advertise prefix with REPLACE behavior to the = upstream neighbor at time-1, and re-advertise the same prefix with REPLACEB= 6 behavior at time-2 just because its forwarding information is changed fro= m a single outgoing SID to a SID list. Otherwise, it will cause excessive advertisement overhead in the net= work. Just like MPLS BGP-LU, the difference of a single outgoing label or a= n outgoing label stack at the local node is not aware by upstream node.

There may be some reasons for re-advertisement, such as the need to announc= e a new metric, but these reasons do not support the need for REPLACEB6.
Regards,
PSF

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=

--_000_CO1PR05MB831400144DEAA3E5EA5D01EAD5929CO1PR05MB8314namp_-- From nobody Tue Nov 9 18:04:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2303A0EDB; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 18:04:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xKR_gdLx3doJ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 18:04:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9FEA3A0EE6; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 18:04:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml740-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.201]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Hpp7W4dc1z67bH6; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:04:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepeml500002.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.128) by fraeml740-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 03:04:41 +0100 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by kwepeml500002.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.128) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:04:39 +0800 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:04:39 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Tom Herbert , "Joel M. Halpern" CC: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHX1BJdF7QH+ez4kU2nZMz3ifw+lqv402gAgABPXYCAADCFgIAAB2IAgAAkwgCAAU/nAIAAAqwAgAEwTmA= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 02:04:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.40.195] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 02:04:50 -0000 Hi Tom, All you arguments are correct.=20 If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, DoH), there i= s no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices. These de= vices may 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is the current situation about mo= st chip vendors. 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near future. =20 Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet drop. This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed. Best, Tianran -----Original Message----- From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM To: Joel M. Halpern Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way. > And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. > Assumptions as I understand them: > > 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases > 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also=20 > support the 6man altMark > > If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH=20 > TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability. > This strikes me as a bad trade. +1 Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that they work = with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work in the narr= ow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might be defined. Tom > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > > > Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform=20 > > to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > > > > The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-m= ark. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;=20 > > ipv6@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Hi Giuseppe, > > > > thank you for the clarification. > > > > I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a=20 > > segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > > > > note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination o= f > > the packet. > > > > I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. > > > > My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane=20 > > to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep=20 > > it disabled on transit nodes. > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola=20 > > > wr= ote: > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, wit= h > > the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on > > the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > > measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nodes > > that are identities in the SR path. > > > > While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it i= s > > possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the > > route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Option > > precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that > > are identities in the SR path. > > > > The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be > > an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > > capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a problem i= n > > some cases. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > > > *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > > *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > > > *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > ; spring@ietf.org > > ; ipv6@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Hi Giuseppe, > > > > thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider > > as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new > > AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an S= R > > Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 > > extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to > > achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMar= k > > processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing > > something? > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > = > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > Thank you for your comment. > > > > It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of > > SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every > > node that is an identity in the SR path. > > > > But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and > > this can have operational implications. > > > > The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best > > suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted= , > > this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for S= Rv6: > > > > - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark > > through SRH TLV, > > > > - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the > > HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > > > > *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > > *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > ; spring@ietf.org > > ; ipv6@ietf.org > > *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > Dear Authors et al. > > > > thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work > > on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you se= e > > as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking > > method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative=20 > > Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Nov 9 18:38:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1FFE3A0FD4; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 18:38:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.43 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.33, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yQxTIpYmCLZx; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 18:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 560DB3A0FDE; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 18:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HpptZ6twtz6G9DB; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 18:38:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636511894; bh=jwHWGIdUHc94pgdD8lt2UzNctEWsONA/Ow56GD0aK+o=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=irsbB9IsiXqEeuRTR8XahjpN3rf7ZGTvcq8otO4eXHFSRPlS+gNZieSIxV1rhdXIs /0CSgDNu1t5MhtpFcM8E6C+LgRhQacDkQvjboYbSJ0zmW7I9OxXJWGWK2iU7hS5vTi qWB/44U6olOgzSuLgn0LxT5AR6AUdCvb59F0Z4wc= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4HpptZ28ZBz6G7T9; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 18:38:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 21:38:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Tianran Zhou Cc: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 02:38:20 -0000 (Again, speaking as participant.) You seem to be assuming that devices (hard or soft) that support SRH will support this new TLV. It is not obvious that they will support any SRH TLVs. And if they do, they clearly will not support a not yet defined TLV. Yours, Joel On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote: > Hi Tom, > > All you arguments are correct. > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, DoH), there is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. > > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices. These devices may > 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is the current situation about most chip vendors. > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near future. > > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet drop. > > This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed. > > Best, > Tianran > > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM > To: Joel M. Halpern > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> >> Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way. >> And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. >> Assumptions as I understand them: >> >> 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases >> 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also >> support the 6man altMark >> >> If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH >> TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability. >> This strikes me as a bad trade. > > +1 > > Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that they work with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work in the narrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might be defined. > > Tom > >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform >>> to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. >>> >>> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Giuseppe >>> >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark >>> >>> Hi Giuseppe, >>> >>> thank you for the clarification. >>> >>> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a >>> segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: >>> >>> note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination of >>> the packet. >>> >>> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. >>> >>> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane >>> to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep >>> it disabled on transit nodes. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, with >>> the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on >>> the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the >>> measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nodes >>> that are identities in the SR path. >>> >>> While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it is >>> possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the >>> route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Option >>> precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that >>> are identities in the SR path. >>> >>> The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be >>> an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV >>> capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a problem in >>> some cases. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Giuseppe >>> >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >> > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola >> > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org >>> ; spring@ietf.org >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark >>> >>> Hi Giuseppe, >>> >>> thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider >>> as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new >>> AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an SR >>> Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 >>> extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to >>> achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMark >>> processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing >>> something? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Thank you for your comment. >>> >>> It is very good to have your support on this draft. >>> >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of >>> SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every >>> node that is an identity in the SR path. >>> >>> But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and >>> this can have operational implications. >>> >>> The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best >>> suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted, >>> this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for SRv6: >>> >>> - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark >>> through SRH TLV, >>> >>> - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the >>> HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Giuseppe >>> >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >> > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM >>> *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org >>> ; spring@ietf.org >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark >>> >>> Dear Authors et al. >>> >>> thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work >>> on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you see >>> as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking >>> method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark >>> ? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative >>> Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Tue Nov 9 19:02:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116EE3A1052 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 19:02:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m_1w0bQg_cBV for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 19:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 177483A1045 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 19:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id j21so4501010edt.11 for ; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 19:02:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LtN3yDt+4Bcty+4zwmWMiQh6V8ATZQX8uoSe2s6CUME=; b=mxZ9bcPr5+2A63mhBio7hl1xg+Ot2vkH3I3QMsRyu5ISNZW7UQHLC7H45o/MGch+1N 4yatw4E7+BfyIgvWPExYgH4TLczP7hgqX1j7WLkzmd1qprFF1JJ/eblIndti319bUhIS xtzV4IYE4ue7hoqve+gGPTTqdwakt9AZFafoJFAqG1tnD0WyZnQA8EhzK4qGG9EDldBb qSkjn0JkF4GIR4yZlhRR0jLQ/nt8mC26ANwnafqXjcLcjCITicN1Qs+WHl/hpAG0MGzF qQEVtgCiSdUF0BbOwb5Apn92mzYNJJfEB+2nlJwMX2delpyIaLcaZr0+QRi2I4kgGRu/ jetQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LtN3yDt+4Bcty+4zwmWMiQh6V8ATZQX8uoSe2s6CUME=; b=x82VhGN/WFdl6vdRk6J4jqR4BuZ06eQmURsnqoHZdQF363mTPfBUfYtOhWRVs/zaYs b6ROsEpvxIIs30IhHBnQDm5MN4gDl5UbPdlnPzYW2caBJc2aIsjsWt/NBJkiax06biXW 21Z7cS2FQm4odl7Fh2ugmlMfi5my87ZKGa8g5P+GaiFkMlq1yduz/nVhHSUPCzkGPcs2 DRtZF0Pz+yYfO7P0ThMUuMDaa7TRx09u8/Lcb/gNp/4Enx6bbQXXeQpjfcrH7NoHKv0e 2dFw3AAVYrIdhSwPSPa3Qt3ymle3VFoOAoVUmfHPQkFdb0eQzofNJL18/eiKfget6Uzp 5s3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533srLuEZrfRPw902AhnFi2ycCRYS0Y9+kAH3dfSU5EGQbYDg3xz Lf8cY6GN8BY8Tm5ES/G21qQJQRab33laSJryMwwIVQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw/W7sDzsQN8WI8EsyqizLYtSaPX0TM5U7EAgTXW5O65nNrghiX1tzHeWSOhehq4wm4plTPUNvwKejqSa/AOF4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:2d10:: with SMTP id gs16mr15845462ejc.353.1636513336338; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 19:02:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tom Herbert Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 19:02:05 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: Tianran Zhou , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 03:02:25 -0000 On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 6:39 PM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > (Again, speaking as participant.) > You seem to be assuming that devices (hard or soft) that support SRH > will support this new TLV. It is not obvious that they will support any > SRH TLVs. And if they do, they clearly will not support a not yet > defined TLV. Yes, and we have no reason to believe that SRH TLVs are somehow more amenable to hardware implementation than TLVs in Hop-by-Hop or Destination options. They are essentially defined as the same mechanism... well almost the same: since SRH TLVs diverged from the format of HbH and DestOps (specifically PADN does not have the same type value in SRH) we can't use the same logic block to implement SRH TLVs. Tom > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > > > All you arguments are correct. > > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, DoH), there is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. > > > > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices. These devices may > > 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is the current situation about most chip vendors. > > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near future. > > > > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? > > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet drop. > > > > This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed. > > > > Best, > > Tianran > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM > > To: Joel M. Halpern > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > >> > >> Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way. > >> And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. > >> Assumptions as I understand them: > >> > >> 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases > >> 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also > >> support the 6man altMark > >> > >> If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH > >> TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability. > >> This strikes me as a bad trade. > > > > +1 > > > > Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that they work with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work in the narrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might be defined. > > > > Tom > > > >> > >> Yours, > >> Joel > >> > >> On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > >>> Hi Greg, > >>> > >>> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform > >>> to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > >>> > >>> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Giuseppe > >>> > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > >>> ipv6@ietf.org > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > >>> > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > >>> > >>> thank you for the clarification. > >>> > >>> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a > >>> segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > >>> > >>> note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination of > >>> the packet. > >>> > >>> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. > >>> > >>> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane > >>> to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep > >>> it disabled on transit nodes. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Greg, > >>> > >>> The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, with > >>> the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on > >>> the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > >>> measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nodes > >>> that are identities in the SR path. > >>> > >>> While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it is > >>> possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the > >>> route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Option > >>> precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that > >>> are identities in the SR path. > >>> > >>> The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be > >>> an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > >>> capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a problem in > >>> some cases. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Giuseppe > >>> > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >>> > > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola >>> > > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > >>> ; spring@ietf.org > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > >>> > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > >>> > >>> thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider > >>> as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new > >>> AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an SR > >>> Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 > >>> extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to > >>> achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMark > >>> processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing > >>> something? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > >>> > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Greg, > >>> > >>> Thank you for your comment. > >>> > >>> It is very good to have your support on this draft. > >>> > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of > >>> SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every > >>> node that is an identity in the SR path. > >>> > >>> But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and > >>> this can have operational implications. > >>> > >>> The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best > >>> suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted, > >>> this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for SRv6: > >>> > >>> - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark > >>> through SRH TLV, > >>> > >>> - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the > >>> HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Giuseppe > >>> > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >>> > > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > >>> *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > >>> ; spring@ietf.org > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > >>> *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > >>> > >>> Dear Authors et al. > >>> > >>> thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work > >>> on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you see > >>> as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking > >>> method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > >>> ? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative > >>> Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Nov 9 19:41:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6973A10D7; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 19:40:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4QoyMnKx2R8u; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 19:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 635503A10D3; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 19:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml738-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HprBj2Nm3z67T1v; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 11:37:17 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepeml500002.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.128) by fraeml738-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.219) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 04:40:50 +0100 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by kwepeml500002.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.128) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 11:40:49 +0800 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 11:40:49 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: "Joel M. Halpern" CC: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHX1BJdF7QH+ez4kU2nZMz3ifw+lqv402gAgABPXYCAADCFgIAAB2IAgAAkwgCAAU/nAIAAAqwAgAEwTmD//4dzgIAAk2PQ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 03:40:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1dc4dd20789144fa8ccf14d601829b54@huawei.com> References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.40.195] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 03:40:59 -0000 Hi Joel, I do not need to assume a device that support SRH will support this new TLV= . We only assume the device that do not support this new TLV can ignore and b= ypass the packet, not to drop. I see text from RFC8754 section 2.1. " all TLVs are ignored unless local configuration indicates otherwise "=20 " Thus, TLV and HMAC support is optional for any implementation " " Type Length Value (TLV) entries contain OPTIONAL information that may be used by the node identified in the Destination Address (DA) of the packet. " " The Length field of the TLV is used to skip the TLV while inspecting the SRH in case the node doesn't support or recognize the Type. " My understanding on SRH can support my assumption. Best, Tianran -----Original Message----- From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:38 AM To: Tianran Zhou Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark (Again, speaking as participant.) You seem to be assuming that devices (hard or soft) that support SRH will s= upport this new TLV. It is not obvious that they will support any SRH TLVs= . And if they do, they clearly will not support a not yet defined TLV. Yours, Joel On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote: > Hi Tom, >=20 > All you arguments are correct. > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, DoH), there= is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. >=20 > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices.=20 > These devices may 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is the curren= t situation about most chip vendors. > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near future. > =20 > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet drop. >=20 > This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed. >=20 > Best, > Tianran >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM > To: Joel M. Halpern > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;=20 > ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark >=20 > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern wrot= e: >> >> Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way. >> And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. >> Assumptions as I understand them: >> >> 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases >> 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also=20 >> support the 6man altMark >> >> If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH=20 >> TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability. >> This strikes me as a bad trade. >=20 > +1 >=20 > Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that they wor= k with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work in the na= rrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might be defined. >=20 > Tom >=20 >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform=20 >>> to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. >>> >>> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-m= ark. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Giuseppe >>> >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;=20 >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark >>> >>> Hi Giuseppe, >>> >>> thank you for the clarification. >>> >>> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a=20 >>> segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: >>> >>> note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination = of >>> the packet. >>> >>> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. >>> >>> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane=20 >>> to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep=20 >>> it disabled on transit nodes. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola=20 >>> > wr= ote: >>> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, wi= th >>> the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on >>> the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the >>> measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nodes >>> that are identities in the SR path. >>> >>> While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it = is >>> possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the >>> route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Option >>> precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that >>> are identities in the SR path. >>> >>> The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can b= e >>> an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV >>> capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a problem = in >>> some cases. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Giuseppe >>> >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >> > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola >> > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org >>> ; spring@ietf.org >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark >>> >>> Hi Giuseppe, >>> >>> thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors conside= r >>> as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new >>> AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an = SR >>> Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 >>> extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to >>> achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMa= rk >>> processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing >>> something? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Greg, >>> >>> Thank you for your comment. >>> >>> It is very good to have your support on this draft. >>> >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of >>> SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every >>> node that is an identity in the SR path. >>> >>> But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers an= d >>> this can have operational implications. >>> >>> The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best >>> suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepte= d, >>> this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for = SRv6: >>> >>> - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark >>> through SRH TLV, >>> >>> - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of th= e >>> HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Giuseppe >>> >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >> > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM >>> *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org >>> ; spring@ietf.org >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark >>> >>> Dear Authors et al. >>> >>> thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the wor= k >>> on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you s= ee >>> as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Markin= g >>> method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark >>> ? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative >>> Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Wed Nov 10 10:32:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036CB3A126E for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:32:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Adpf4TWvqc9 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A4A63A127B for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id ee33so14135539edb.8 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:32:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4zXyykD81SdtnFnX4AoAeFXILUfIly+0rLxMzm3+Wxo=; b=emUiw1TbDJXkJTRAe3sAq2Z0PlgLj6Np2XkIdZmhqiPVbR67DMUvHUSktjrwPGEHkx tNhTJI2PncnNgkoBTSpbU8pQWNzWZhrd0A8FrdiZA5meXA+tL8tKuPSYff9pkWUIa3Nz oVPopsag/bKs2Rn0Qee98ruXEv/34iDGXs2kLZIQKF7gIfVCGS/TWiXHOmnbeSw9v9Am GomjqdVZR6K4pD7cd1m8ECM5y2ndS/M87E5d3nx11VcKNuTJ3S4lx6xBtukll3+TKp/z gb8Hf7CzyOO06Uu65uwRR8N/A4NCO9KLcLj5J0YGn91EbXyvznBENcL3s/c+hGNr4gph psIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4zXyykD81SdtnFnX4AoAeFXILUfIly+0rLxMzm3+Wxo=; b=H8O3zajQpSRM6zRufObjrrFK55mMbcHTrYaS8HnFFGNa2MD/M6vw4Xzc+KOMx/g8oZ 5Zhjc5P114ze5e95FbfqnDgpTiTvnZEXcCxb2m3ZbAyqsW4pIeNQbFsx8g0/gDx15186 GWERrV+GpdakdpuV3/M/GAm19ukgGso9zprtagRdySASkG5YymYvo+jkJk8RNenq+IAa Q2Jmpetv12dwHi6ZRVb9GffVP07mvTCuZ8hZAFpPPWRTiPcTiOdm86lLkxkGig8+3K2r PfbsTFAMJIxQ56qEalrl1mNjQdwQy4di6e84fKLl0XBbWSka1cGO2Ijoqr8iZU/zY/iO ds6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532+g6Vdujop37ZmnetmTaiSspJC/1s3uTYYRfCEsug4PcgPqBzr F7dAyCVAYtCQLJMHkpXeta/XYRISF4gXSTKoiIDhEw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7/piSarCQ4YcaMFyrCU52KqpIR/vRHINeIBSdJ0+uiuRrDMhl0FdrviMIGv/fzY4lQ0i+vaH+xdUjBIZdthE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:3596:: with SMTP id y22mr1351214edc.255.1636569158770; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:32:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <573fddca93ee494d9e1eb9afcffa8d8e@huawei.com> <3c79c1d415a84058b6eb4d59e1ab01be@huawei.com> <48c953bc-002b-ac20-4e0d-f9e23c843005@joelhalpern.com> <1dc4dd20789144fa8ccf14d601829b54@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1dc4dd20789144fa8ccf14d601829b54@huawei.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:32:27 -0800 Message-ID: To: Tianran Zhou Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 18:32:47 -0000 On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:41 PM Tianran Zhou wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > I do not need to assume a device that support SRH will support this new TLV. > We only assume the device that do not support this new TLV can ignore and bypass the packet, not to drop. > I see text from RFC8754 section 2.1. > " all TLVs are ignored unless local configuration indicates otherwise " > " Thus, TLV and HMAC support is optional for any implementation " > " Type Length Value (TLV) entries contain OPTIONAL information that may > be used by the node identified in the Destination Address (DA) of the > packet. " > " The Length field of the TLV is used to skip the TLV while inspecting > the SRH in case the node doesn't support or recognize the Type. " > > My understanding on SRH can support my assumption. Tianran, RFC8200 allows intermediate nodes to ignore TLVs in HBH options, and I did propose allowing intermediate destinations to ignore destination options before the routing header in draft-herbert-ipv6-update-opts. But allowing nodes to ignore TLVs only mitigates the problems of packet loss in the presence of TLVs; the obvious purpose of defining a new TLV is that it _will_ be processed, lest the host sender is just wasting cycles and bandwidth sending bits no one looks at. If all implementations of SRH ignore TLVs then defining the TLV is pointless (AFAIK only Linux and maybe VPP software implementations support SRH TLVs). For the purposes of actually processing a TLV, like alt mark, I still don't see any advantage to putting this in SRH as opposed to Destination options or HBH options. Tom > > Best, > Tianran > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:38 AM > To: Tianran Zhou > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > (Again, speaking as participant.) > You seem to be assuming that devices (hard or soft) that support SRH will support this new TLV. It is not obvious that they will support any SRH TLVs. And if they do, they clearly will not support a not yet defined TLV. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > > > All you arguments are correct. > > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, DoH), there is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. > > > > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices. > > These devices may 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is the current situation about most chip vendors. > > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near future. > > > > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? > > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet drop. > > > > This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed. > > > > Best, > > Tianran > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM > > To: Joel M. Halpern > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > >> > >> Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different way. > >> And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. > >> Assumptions as I understand them: > >> > >> 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases > >> 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also > >> support the 6man altMark > >> > >> If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the SRH > >> TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capability. > >> This strikes me as a bad trade. > > > > +1 > > > > Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that they work with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work in the narrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might be defined. > > > > Tom > > > >> > >> Yours, > >> Joel > >> > >> On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > >>> Hi Greg, > >>> > >>> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still conform > >>> to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > >>> > >>> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Giuseppe > >>> > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > >>> ipv6@ietf.org > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > >>> > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > >>> > >>> thank you for the clarification. > >>> > >>> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a > >>> segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > >>> > >>> note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destination of > >>> the packet. > >>> > >>> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of it. > >>> > >>> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane > >>> to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and keep > >>> it disabled on transit nodes. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Greg, > >>> > >>> The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed, with > >>> the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router on > >>> the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > >>> measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nodes > >>> that are identities in the SR path. > >>> > >>> While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header, it is > >>> possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in the > >>> route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Option > >>> precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes that > >>> are identities in the SR path. > >>> > >>> The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be > >>> an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > >>> capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a problem in > >>> some cases. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Giuseppe > >>> > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >>> > > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola >>> > > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > >>> ; spring@ietf.org > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > >>> > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > >>> > >>> thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors consider > >>> as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the new > >>> AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along an SR > >>> Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6 > >>> extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to > >>> achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the AltMark > >>> processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missing > >>> something? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > >>> > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Greg, > >>> > >>> Thank you for your comment. > >>> > >>> It is very good to have your support on this draft. > >>> > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case of > >>> SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for every > >>> node that is an identity in the SR path. > >>> > >>> But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension headers and > >>> this can have operational implications. > >>> > >>> The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that best > >>> suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted, > >>> this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for SRv6: > >>> > >>> - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark > >>> through SRH TLV, > >>> > >>> - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use of the > >>> HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Giuseppe > >>> > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky >>> > > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > >>> *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > >>> ; spring@ietf.org > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > >>> *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > >>> > >>> Dear Authors et al. > >>> > >>> thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the work > >>> on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do you see > >>> as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking > >>> method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > >>> ? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative > >>> Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Nov 10 16:26:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECA233A14ED; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 16:26:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org, james.n.guichard@futurewei.com, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <163659039094.15306.5883706925847982939@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 16:26:30 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Last Call: (Segment Routing Policy Architecture) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 00:26:31 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG (spring) to consider the following document: - 'Segment Routing Policy Architecture' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2021-11-24. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a packet flow along any path. Intermediate per-path states are eliminated thanks to source routing. The headend node steers a flow into an SR Policy. The packets steered into an SR Policy carry an ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy. This document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering into an SR Policy. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3184/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3185/ From nobody Wed Nov 10 22:48:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3033A0C7A; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 22:48:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XqUS7Hr0F3AG; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 22:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BA3C3A0C77; Wed, 10 Nov 2021 22:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml739-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HqXH15wBkz67yS4; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:43:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepeml500002.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.128) by fraeml739-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.220) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 07:48:17 +0100 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by kwepeml500002.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.128) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.15; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:48:14 +0800 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.015; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:48:14 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Tom Herbert CC: "Joel M. Halpern" , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AdfWxkr7F7QH+ez4kU2nZMz3ifw+lg== Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 06:48:14 +0000 Message-ID: <8329b70fa8254c0a9d0c1465dc920361@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.227.58] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 06:48:26 -0000 SGkgVG9tLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIG15IHJlcGx5IGJlbG93Lg0KDQpCZXN0LA0KVGlhbnJhbg0K 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From nobody Thu Nov 11 03:59:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C263A0E00 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 03:59:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.289 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.289 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.001, HDRS_MISSP=2.186, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HOoW_G_HICPb for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 03:59:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A753A0DFE for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 03:59:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.19]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee1618d0597c96-3d6ef; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 19:59:20 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee1618d0597c96-3d6ef X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from CMCC-PC (unknown[10.1.6.7]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr10-12010 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2eea618d0596b78-c1ea4; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 19:59:19 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2eea618d0596b78-c1ea4 MIME-Version: 1.0 x-PcFlag: ebc75157-8c5a-4677-b65d-539350ab570d_5_48325 X-Mailer: PC_RICHMAIL 2.9.8 Date: 11 Nov 2021 19:59:19 +0800 From: =?utf-8?B?WWlzb25nIExpdQ==?= To: spring Cc: chengweiqiang, =?utf-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBNY0JyaWRl?=, Lizhenbin, =?utf-8?B?R2VuZ3h1ZXNvbmcgKEdlbmcgWHVlc29uZyk=?= Message-ID: <20211111195919903309035@chinamobile.com> X-Has-Attach: yes Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_001_NextPart903309035_=----" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Re=EF=BC=9A_MSR6_side_meeting_at_IETF_112?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:59:37 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart903309035_=---- Content-Type: multipart/Alternative; boundary="----=_002_NextPart903309035_=----" ------=_002_NextPart903309035_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQ0NDUhpIFNQUklORywNDSANDUFzIGEgcmVtaW5kZXIsIHdlIHdpbGwgaGF2ZSBhbiBNU1I2KE11 bHRpY2FzdCBTZWdtZW50IFJvdXRpbmcgb3ZlciBJUHY2KSBzaWRlIG1lZXRpbmcgb24gRnJpZGF5 LiBQbGVhc2UgZmluZCB0aGUgLmljcyBmaWxlIGluIHRoZSBhdHRhY2htZW50IGFuZCB0aGUgd2Vi ZXggbGluayBpcyA6DQ1odHRwczovL2h0Zi1wYXJpcy5teS53ZWJleC5jb20vd2J4bWpzL2pvaW5z ZXJ2aWNlL3NpdGVzL2h0Zi1wYXJpcy5teS1lbi9tZWV0aW5nL2Rvd25sb2FkL2UxZjE1YTU1NDZh YTQ0MjZiYmVlMmIxMjhmMTNiZmNhP3NpdGV1cmw9aHRmLXBhcmlzLm15LWVuJmFtcDtNVElEPW02 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As=20a=20reminder,=20we=20will=20have=20an=20MSR6(Multicast=20Segment=20Ro= uting=20over=20IPv6)=20side=20meeting=20on=20Friday.=20Please=20find=20the= =20.ics=20file=20in=20the=20attachment=20and=20the=20webex=20link=20is=20:<= o:p>

https://htf-paris.my.webex.com/wbxmjs/joinservice/sit= es/htf-paris.my-en/meeting/download/e1f15a5546aa4426bbee2b128f13bfca?siteur= l=3Dhtf-paris.my-en&MTID=3Dm640f36efb4135d33151f488d1b7ba206

Welcome=20to=20join= =21


= Best=20RegardsYisong
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=  

We=20will=20have=20a=20side=20meeting=20to=20discuss=20Multic= ast=20Segment=20Routing=20over=20IPv6(MSR6)=20on=20Friday=2013:00-14:30=20U= TC.

Agenda,= =20related=20documents=20and=20other=20information=20of=20the=20side=20meet= ing=20could=20be=20found:https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112sidemeetings .=

<= span=20lang=3D=22EN-US=22=20style=3D=22font-size:=2012pt;=22>Welcome=20to= =20join=20the=20discussion=21

 

<= font=20style=3D=22font-family:=20=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91;=22>B= est=20Regards

Yisong



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ABdhPJwfibbtLVKDNuxNCGo9RSvMUJGGCWUFloezhzeBqtWlApOSEBpqoZwtfqESvyxy7o/htHAU9GutbpxYCZJKBgI= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:df8f:: with SMTP id b15mr11678002edy.202.1636650341196; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:05:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8329b70fa8254c0a9d0c1465dc920361@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <8329b70fa8254c0a9d0c1465dc920361@huawei.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:05:29 -0800 Message-ID: To: Tianran Zhou Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:49 -0000 On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 10:48 PM Tianran Zhou wrot= e: > > Hi Tom, > > Please see my reply below. > > Best, > Tianran > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8811=E6=97=A5= 2:32 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Joel M. Halpern ; draft-fz-sprin= g-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-= mark > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:41 PM Tianran Zhou wrot= e: > > > > Hi Joel, > > > > I do not need to assume a device that support SRH will support this new= TLV. > > We only assume the device that do not support this new TLV can ignore a= nd bypass the packet, not to drop. > > I see text from RFC8754 section 2.1. > > " all TLVs are ignored unless local configuration indicates otherwise " > > " Thus, TLV and HMAC support is optional for any implementation " > > " Type Length Value (TLV) entries contain OPTIONAL information that may > > be used by the node identified in the Destination Address (DA) of th= e > > packet. " > > " The Length field of the TLV is used to skip the TLV while inspecting > > the SRH in case the node doesn't support or recognize the Type. " > > > > My understanding on SRH can support my assumption. > > Tianran, > > RFC8200 allows intermediate nodes to ignore TLVs in HBH options, and I di= d propose allowing intermediate destinations to ignore destination options = before the routing header in draft-herbert-ipv6-update-opts. > > ZTR> It is true, but this is another story. RFC8200 is new, while RFC2460= has been widely deployed. The industry need time to evolve. I talked about= the reality. The new proposal is motivated by the real deployment. > > But allowing nodes to ignore TLVs only mitigates the problems of packet l= oss in the presence of TLVs; the obvious purpose of defining a new TLV is t= hat it _will_ be processed, lest the host sender is just wasting cycles and= bandwidth sending bits no one looks at. If all implementations of SRH igno= re TLVs then defining the TLV is pointless (AFAIK only Linux and maybe VPP = software implementations support SRH TLVs). For the purposes of actually pr= ocessing a TLV, like alt mark, I still don't see any advantage to putting t= his in SRH as opposed to Destination options or HBH options. > > ZTR> We consider the incremental deployment case, or the deployment with = multi-vendors. That means the supportive node could process SRH TLV well, w= hile the non-supportive node could still transit. This is still valuable fo= r operators to narrow down the scope when packet loss happens. This could a= lso encourage the new tech development and deployment. I see this is very u= seful. Tianran, I think you're dancing around the core problem. Hardware implementations didn't support Hop-by-Hop options because they contain TLVs which are considered to be hard to process in a high performance datapath hardware pipeline. RFC2460 did mandate that all intermediate nodes need to process the HBH options which left hardware vendors with three choices: 1) process them in a software slow path and adhere to RFC2460 2) ignore them altogether and violate RFC2460 3) drop the packet which technically adheres to RFC2460, but obviously kills any utility of feature. RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to process HBH options and acknowledged that this is reality. From an application perspective, if the TLVs can't be processed in a "fast path" it is best to ignore the options. So the underlying problem is in fact the complexity of processing TLVs in hardware datapath. Just replicating the same TLV mechanism in more protocols like SRH does nothing to help solve the problem. Until this is solved I don't believe we'll ever see TLVs being productively used in L3 (I suppose this might the anticipated industry evolution to which you referred). On the other hand if the problem is solved and a deployable an economical solution is presented that hardware vendors would adopt, then the problem would be solved for a whole class of use case (i.e. the same basic TLV construct is used in HBH, DestOpts, SRH, TCP options, IP options, UDP options, etc.). If you're interested, I will be outlining the solution to this problem that we're working on in IPv6/v6ops meeting tomorrow. Tom > > Tom > > > > > Best, > > Tianran > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. > > Halpern > > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:38 AM > > To: Tianran Zhou > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > (Again, speaking as participant.) > > You seem to be assuming that devices (hard or soft) that support SRH wi= ll support this new TLV. It is not obvious that they will support any SRH = TLVs. And if they do, they clearly will not support a not yet defined TLV. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > > On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote: > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > All you arguments are correct. > > > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, DoH), t= here is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. > > > > > > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices. > > > These devices may 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is the cu= rrent situation about most chip vendors. > > > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near future. > > > > > > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? > > > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet drop. > > > > > > This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed. > > > > > > Best, > > > Tianran > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM > > > To: Joel M. Halpern > > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern = wrote: > > >> > > >> Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different wa= y. > > >> And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. > > >> Assumptions as I understand them: > > >> > > >> 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases > > >> 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also > > >> support the 6man altMark > > >> > > >> If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the > > >> SRH TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capabi= lity. > > >> This strikes me as a bad trade. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that they= work with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work in th= e narrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might be defin= ed. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > >> > > >> Yours, > > >> Joel > > >> > > >> On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > > >>> Hi Greg, > > >>> > > >>> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still > > >>> conform to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > > >>> > > >>> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-a= lt-mark. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Giuseppe > > >>> > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > >>> ipv6@ietf.org > > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > >>> > > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > > >>> > > >>> thank you for the clarification. > > >>> > > >>> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of a > > >>> segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > > >>> > > >>> note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destinat= ion of > > >>> the packet. > > >>> > > >>> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of = it. > > >>> > > >>> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management plane > > >>> to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points and > > >>> keep it disabled on transit nodes. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Greg > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > >>> = > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi Greg, > > >>> > > >>> The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed= , with > > >>> the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router= on > > >>> the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > > >>> measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nod= es > > >>> that are identities in the SR path. > > >>> > > >>> While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header,= it is > > >>> possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in= the > > >>> route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Optio= n > > >>> precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes = that > > >>> are identities in the SR path. > > >>> > > >>> The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it c= an be > > >>> an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > > >>> capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a prob= lem in > > >>> some cases. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Giuseppe > > >>> > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > >>> > > > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > >>> > > > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > >>> ; spring@ietf.o= rg > > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > >>> > > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > > >>> > > >>> thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors con= sider > > >>> as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the= new > > >>> AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along= an SR > > >>> Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH = IPv6 > > >>> extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to > > >>> achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the A= ltMark > > >>> processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missin= g > > >>> something? > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Greg > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > >>> > > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi Greg, > > >>> > > >>> Thank you for your comment. > > >>> > > >>> It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > >>> > > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case= of > > >>> SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for ev= ery > > >>> node that is an identity in the SR path. > > >>> > > >>> But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension header= s and > > >>> this can have operational implications. > > >>> > > >>> The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that b= est > > >>> suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If acc= epted, > > >>> this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only = for SRv6: > > >>> > > >>> - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark > > >>> through SRH TLV, > > >>> > > >>> - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use o= f the > > >>> HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Giuseppe > > >>> > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > >>> > > > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > > >>> *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > >>> ; spring@ietf.o= rg > > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > > >>> *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > >>> > > >>> Dear Authors et al. > > >>> > > >>> thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the= work > > >>> on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do y= ou see > > >>> as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Ma= rking > > >>> method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Greg > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>> -- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org > > >>> Administrative > > >>> Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>> -- > > >>> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> - IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative > > >> Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> - > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative > > > Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Nov 11 09:33:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B10F3A0DC9; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:33:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i5hmFLuKRHB4; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8024A3A0DC5; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (ti0389q160-2489.bb.online.no [46.9.226.213]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A13C54E11B7B; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:33:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtpclient.apple (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32320666F3B5; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:33:47 +0100 (CET) From: otroan@employees.org Message-Id: <16E578B0-2505-4343-89AB-5C165C76C61E@employees.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_496F065C-25A8-4E44-9AEE-32B839D1370B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:33:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: Tianran Zhou , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , 6man WG To: Tom Herbert References: <8329b70fa8254c0a9d0c1465dc920361@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:33:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_496F065C-25A8-4E44-9AEE-32B839D1370B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tom, [...] > I think you're dancing around the core problem. Hardware > implementations didn't support Hop-by-Hop options because they contain > TLVs which are considered to be hard to process in a high performance > datapath hardware pipeline. RFC2460 did mandate that all intermediate > nodes need to process the HBH options which left hardware vendors with > three choices: 1) process them in a software slow path and adhere to > RFC2460 2) ignore them altogether and violate RFC2460 3) drop the > packet which technically adheres to RFC2460, but obviously kills any > utility of feature. RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to > process HBH options and acknowledged that this is reality. =46rom an > application perspective, if the TLVs can't be processed in a "fast > path" it is best to ignore the options. I mostly agree with your reasoning. To add some more nuance. The only TLV that existed was Router Altert for = MLD, and that was a signal to send the packet to the control plane. I think the reason HBH isn't implemented in hardware is because there = aren't any options in existence. Until quite recently. And those mainly apply in a limited domain. If a transit network supported some specific forwarding behavour = triggered by the HBH option, it would be highly unlikely that it would = allow arbitrary end-users to use that function. To conclude. HBH hasn't been implemented in hardware because there = hasn't been a use case. Cheers, Ole --Apple-Mail=_496F065C-25A8-4E44-9AEE-32B839D1370B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEdu1h07DO3As4hPTA3JCvLd9yNkgFAmGNU/oACgkQ3JCvLd9y NkhNgQ//flqiMMQDKJqKocLhyi/nQNQd13jVkiOHiM1fJZk1FiXkyWJdLzrqT7xX FfQgQYWec/LSlh+8077yF7KwYQ4ClqmyXpNXyYLtjhIbDaM9NMKgSuRHPBlOrfJ2 P1bV8eXmRbE1VnIA8lkD863E4GAINDAX/BWLjDFnoNe/XvSPZ9VQw84/fVBrf9lU 4Ff/Hc0v8DlTKkV5/LiWY/73Z4JeuZYrdVza9VBK4Upnjf9sMDE9gOB+k1NOb9ku VFek+9VlcwbDnvXYtEad6Qj1IHJanY332M3JHO66dfGCCTFvp+bI4RaJeOl2cEXv Y8t31rDkXVfcxYB7tL7vNX6AmKHFgWbGNvs3ZNadQf4ws2SJxZy2YZoR/NqiQeqQ iTmaT8eJf1qKYsggQEPXIRSRN1Gn6OClrfpqBlN+ZzgIqd/5YX2QY7ie662lF0hE aKstKyXZeQstY9dQfWo5hcAmLZLZaQX+SehEbSV6QQTZb+3cM5TmmkhRz+JRQ7UB 65ecl7SySAS4LWNZNqdgwrHyelYcNXN2h9OwBgNQ+xrTyns4EgCCyt6I/oVxK4u2 bsv5ac+qYOU/9eJczxuF36nIgBNmgHpHFzMM6u6Dab+O7UV6WBvKUm6tJVD0RLT7 tkFAgfFOiWh3dW1QtSWQwkKboT/ivB6LnGan88pKmU+cq5vIGmg= =zIUG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_496F065C-25A8-4E44-9AEE-32B839D1370B-- From nobody Thu Nov 11 10:53:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A483A0907; 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Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:52:51 +0000 From: Haoyu Song To: Tom Herbert , Tianran Zhou CC: "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AdfWxkr7F7QH+ez4kU2nZMz3ifw+lgAWAkWAAANwX8A= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:52:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8329b70fa8254c0a9d0c1465dc920361@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3eb28e0a-c21e-4258-cf9b-08d9a54476b3 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR13MB2392: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3eb28e0a-c21e-4258-cf9b-08d9a54476b3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Nov 2021 18:52:51.6166 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: t+zEUGGdveH+POj/uWU6XbN/QX0YVu6hdoWY1q7LlKhZR7GKa1om+2BLRrfxH8H9WCdlQYGl+emOcDvm0wzeUw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR13MB2392 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:53:12 -0000 Comments inline marked with HS>> Best, Haoyu -----Original Message----- From: ipv6 On Behalf Of Tom Herbert Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2021 9:05 AM To: Tianran Zhou Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Tianran, I think you're dancing around the core problem. Hardware implementations di= dn't support Hop-by-Hop options because they contain TLVs which are conside= red to be hard to process in a high performance datapath hardware pipeline.= RFC2460 did mandate that all intermediate nodes need to process the HBH op= tions which left hardware vendors with three choices: 1) process them in a = software slow path and adhere to RFC2460 2) ignore them altogether and violate RFC2460 3) drop the packet wh= ich technically adheres to RFC2460, but obviously kills any utility of feat= ure. RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to process HBH options a= nd acknowledged that this is reality. From an application perspective, if t= he TLVs can't be processed in a "fast path" it is best to ignore the option= s. So the underlying problem is in fact the complexity of processing TLVs in h= ardware datapath. Just replicating the same TLV mechanism in more protocols= like SRH does nothing to help solve the problem. Until this is solved I do= n't believe we'll ever see TLVs being productively used in L3 (I suppose th= is might the anticipated industry evolution to which you referred). On the = other hand if the problem is solved and a deployable an economical solution= is presented that hardware vendors would adopt, then the problem would be = solved for a whole class of use case (i.e. the same basic TLV construct is = used in HBH, DestOpts, SRH, TCP options, IP options, UDP options, etc.). HS>> TLVs are not inherently difficult to process in hardware. There are tw= o parts of TLV processing. First is parsing. Yes it would need more clock c= ycles to parse a TLV than a normal header, but parser is not the performanc= e bottleneck and the overhead is acceptable. The second part is actually pe= rforming the function dictated by the TLV. This depends highly on the natur= e of the function itself. If it's proper for efficient hardware implementat= ion, then there's no problem to support it. So here I think the core issues= are what kind of TLV function we should allow in hardware and how we would= modify the standard rules to accommodate them in existing extension header= s.=20 If you're interested, I will be outlining the solution to this problem that= we're working on in IPv6/v6ops meeting tomorrow. Tom > > Tom > > > > > Best, > > Tianran > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. > > Halpern > > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:38 AM > > To: Tianran Zhou > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;=20 > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > (Again, speaking as participant.) > > You seem to be assuming that devices (hard or soft) that support SRH wi= ll support this new TLV. It is not obvious that they will support any SRH = TLVs. And if they do, they clearly will not support a not yet defined TLV. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > > On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote: > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > All you arguments are correct. > > > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, DoH), t= here is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. > > > > > > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices. > > > These devices may 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is the cu= rrent situation about most chip vendors. > > > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near future. > > > > > > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? > > > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet drop. > > > > > > This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed. > > > > > > Best, > > > Tianran > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM > > > To: Joel M. Halpern > > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;=20 > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern = wrote: > > >> > > >> Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different wa= y. > > >> And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. > > >> Assumptions as I understand them: > > >> > > >> 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases > > >> 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also=20 > > >> support the 6man altMark > > >> > > >> If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the=20 > > >> SRH TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any capabi= lity. > > >> This strikes me as a bad trade. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that they= work with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work in th= e narrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might be defin= ed. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > >> > > >> Yours, > > >> Joel > > >> > > >> On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > > >>> Hi Greg, > > >>> > > >>> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still=20 > > >>> conform to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > > >>> > > >>> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-a= lt-mark. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Giuseppe > > >>> > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;=20 > > >>> ipv6@ietf.org > > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > >>> > > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > > >>> > > >>> thank you for the clarification. > > >>> > > >>> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of=20 > > >>> a segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > > >>> > > >>> note 3: for options to be processed only by the final destinat= ion of > > >>> the packet. > > >>> > > >>> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion of = it. > > >>> > > >>> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management=20 > > >>> plane to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points=20 > > >>> and keep it disabled on transit nodes. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Greg > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola=20 > > >>> = > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi Greg, > > >>> > > >>> The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. Indeed= , with > > >>> the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every router= on > > >>> the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > > >>> measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the nod= es > > >>> that are identities in the SR path. > > >>> > > >>> While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing Header,= it is > > >>> possible to apply the measurement to every destination node in= the > > >>> route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination Optio= n > > >>> precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the nodes = that > > >>> are identities in the SR path. > > >>> > > >>> The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it c= an be > > >>> an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > > >>> capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a prob= lem in > > >>> some cases. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Giuseppe > > >>> > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > >>> > > > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > >>> > > > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > >>> ; spring@ietf.o= rg > > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > >>> > > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > > >>> > > >>> thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors con= sider > > >>> as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that the= new > > >>> AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes along= an SR > > >>> Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the HbH = IPv6 > > >>> extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used to > > >>> achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the A= ltMark > > >>> processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I missin= g > > >>> something? > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Greg > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > >>> > > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi Greg, > > >>> > > >>> Thank you for your comment. > > >>> > > >>> It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > >>> > > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In case= of > > >>> SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for ev= ery > > >>> node that is an identity in the SR path. > > >>> > > >>> But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension header= s and > > >>> this can have operational implications. > > >>> > > >>> The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that b= est > > >>> suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If acc= epted, > > >>> this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only = for SRv6: > > >>> > > >>> - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMark > > >>> through SRH TLV, > > >>> > > >>> - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use o= f the > > >>> HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Giuseppe > > >>> > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > >>> > > > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > > >>> *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > >>> ; spring@ietf.o= rg > > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > > >>> *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > >>> > > >>> Dear Authors et al. > > >>> > > >>> thank you for this document. I am supporting and following the= work > > >>> on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do y= ou see > > >>> as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate Ma= rking > > >>> method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Greg > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> -- > > >>> -- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org=20 > > >>> Administrative > > >>> Requests:=20 > > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F% > > >>> 2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fipv6&data=3D04%7C01%7Cha > > >>> oyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C397aedf2a2d040c0612f08d9a5358eee%7C0f > > >>> ee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637722471737333496%7CUn > > >>> known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 > > >>> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DV%2BW%2BlClfp%2BSGaU15lk > > >>> NYe3UN%2Fyfm4MxzVhg09RvOyiI%3D&reserved=3D0 > > >>> 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bh=Sz2h4PUFE60eYVo92MHF9vsaNjrTlLM6CxKaIU4p8+c=; b=w3pTk361u0LZS41MCBVn6eTOFKSqHt8pS7kCOGoMI1Ntq3Gghi6/WKlD2KfnIlm0f7 pULzBJ0IVgah/+pEylq66uKUuQTKInQMxpoSwFoYuihZuomQGfiqUSkeX65MGsRsGr5I QtrpckWstcg0Xq3OAjjk3x1g2pfOpttWe02YHBA77pp/Jv+lwoK2IVwR8+cDMZxNdawR 45maP7Wtm1nShRUW71A1EW8fs+rRAfIQX5oHPgrd/1d7ftY29/5N/W2/Eo2TAwzvT5ao WB35sYMTa4aLNImdYHdXU4C0ypeAypNHpfUHQRjc+x0AX/K4N2n35nk4wgn6qVjbcU7l zrJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Rw605qIHEdbDcsBxbTK9jCKCXWVG8tbG+bwojWKSKBKDV25MR 6itbuceO//OV5XTFonxX3X/FRjlx44hDBwa9IKYpKg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy2uWV1pGhTZQQUY5Qetkc5Z1vMgkTHPZSCIf2JKLsLAkdVrHHnZNifq7l7m9UBWPFT/x/GM3su9S4orO6zhJA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:510c:: with SMTP id m12mr12828710edd.314.1636658293564; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:18:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8329b70fa8254c0a9d0c1465dc920361@huawei.com> <16E578B0-2505-4343-89AB-5C165C76C61E@employees.org> In-Reply-To: From: Tom Herbert Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:18:02 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" Cc: "otroan@employees.org" , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , Tianran Zhou , 6man WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 19:18:22 -0000 Pascal, Comments in line. On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 10:58 AM Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > > +1 . > > To Ole that without a good use case in a limited domain it=E2=80=99s hard= to expect implementation. > Unfortunately, TLVs weren't interesting enough when the protocol was defined so now we have a lot of deployed hardware that couldn't support them even if they wanted. There are two things that give me hope for the future in that regard: 1) The emergence of programmable hardware datapaths may eventually limit the need for hardware swap out everytime someone wants to support a new protocol 2) TCP has always has TLVs as a core part of the protocol, as hardware implementation move up the stack they are going to need to deal with TLVs (like it someone wanted to build a high performance NVMe/TCP stack in hardware). > To the point that the HbH must remain simple to operate and very short, s= ame spirit as already demonstrated with SRH. > > We=E2=80=99re in a weird situation with arbitrary limits in vendor silico= n because the IETF failed to give clear directions on EH sizes. > > It would be neat to provide a roadmap of how long the minimum EH size to = parse should be so the IETF can design things that can be later implemented= by the vendors. That is precisely the intent of https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-herbert-6man-eh-limits-00.txt :-) Tom > > Regards, > > Pascal > > Le 11 nov. 2021 =C3=A0 18:34, otroan@employees.org a =C3=A9crit : > > =EF=BB=BFTom, > > [...] > > I think you're dancing around the core problem. Hardware > > implementations didn't support Hop-by-Hop options because they contain > > TLVs which are considered to be hard to process in a high performance > > datapath hardware pipeline. RFC2460 did mandate that all intermediate > > nodes need to process the HBH options which left hardware vendors with > > three choices: 1) process them in a software slow path and adhere to > > RFC2460 2) ignore them altogether and violate RFC2460 3) drop the > > packet which technically adheres to RFC2460, but obviously kills any > > utility of feature. RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to > > process HBH options and acknowledged that this is reality. From an > > application perspective, if the TLVs can't be processed in a "fast > > path" it is best to ignore the options. > > > I mostly agree with your reasoning. > To add some more nuance. The only TLV that existed was Router Altert for = MLD, and that was a signal to send the packet to the control plane. > I think the reason HBH isn't implemented in hardware is because there are= n't any options in existence. Until quite recently. > And those mainly apply in a limited domain. > > If a transit network supported some specific forwarding behavour triggere= d by the HBH option, it would be highly unlikely that it would allow arbitr= ary end-users to use that function. > > To conclude. HBH hasn't been implemented in hardware because there hasn't= been a use case. > > Cheers, > Ole > > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Thu Nov 11 13:32:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8945B3A0C05; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:32:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=SfmypDcn; 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rmsmtp-syy-appsvr09-12009 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee9618dbf3fc91-fc714; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 09:11:30 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee9618dbf3fc91-fc714 MIME-Version: 1.0 x-PcFlag: 5ae0a37e-c5f7-44eb-a928-2397d657684f_5_48386 X-Mailer: PC_RICHMAIL 2.9.8 Date: 12 Nov 2021 09:11:27 +0800 From: =?utf-8?B?WWlzb25nIExpdQ==?= To: =?utf-8?B?QWNlZSBMaW5kZW0gKGFjZWUp?=, spring Cc: chengweiqiang, =?utf-8?B?R2VuZ3h1ZXNvbmcgKEdlbmcgWHVlc29uZyk=?=, =?utf-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBNY0JyaWRl?=, Lizhenbin Message-ID: <20211112091127950826933@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/Alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart950826933_=----" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?b?UmXvvJogUmU6ICBSZe+8miBNU1I2IHNpZGUgbWVldGlu?= =?utf-8?q?g_at_IETF_112?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 01:11:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart950826933_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQ0NDUhpIEFjZWUsDQ0gDQ1UaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgaW50ZXJlc3QuDQ1UaGUgdGltZSBmb3Ig U2lkZSBNZWV0aW5nIHdpbGwgYmUgMTM6MDAtMTQ6MzAgZm9yIFVUQywgd2hpY2ggd2lsbCBmaW5p c2ggYmVmb3JlIHRoZSBSb3V0aW5nIEFyZWEgT3BlbiBNZWV0aW5nLg0NDQ0NQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRz DQ1ZaXNvbmcNDQ0NDQ0N5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBBY2VlIExpbmRlbSAoYWNlZSkNDeaXtumXtDogMjAy MS8xMS8xMSjmmJ/mnJ/lm5spMjM6NDMNDeaUtuS7tuS6ujogWWlzb25nIExpdTtzcHJpbmc7DQ3m ioTpgIHkuro6IGNoZW5nd2VpcWlhbmc7R2VuZ3h1ZXNvbmcgKEdlbmcgWHVlc29uZyk7TWljaGFl bCBNY0JyaWRlO0xpemhlbmJpbjsNDeS4u+mimDogUmU6IFtzcHJpbmddIFJl77yaIE1TUjYgc2lk ZSBtZWV0aW5nIGF0IElFVEYgMTEyIA0NIA0NSXQgYXBwZWFycyB0aGF0IGl0IG92ZXJsYXBzIHRo ZSBSb3V0aW5nIEFyZWEgT3BlbiBNZWV0aW5n4oCmIEFtIEkgbWlzc2luZyBzb21ldGhpbmc/ICAN DSAgDQ0gDQ1Gcm9tOiBzcHJpbmcgPHNwcmluZy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBvbiBiZWhhbGYg b2YgWWlzb25nIExpdSA8bGl1eWlzb25nQGNoaW5hbW9iaWxlLmNvbT4NIERhdGU6IFRodXJzZGF5 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Hi=20Acee,

&n= bsp;

Thanks=20for=20your=20interest.

The=20time=20for=20Side= =20Meeting=20will=20be=2013:00-14:30=20for=20UTC,=20which=20will=20finish= =20before=20the=20Routing=20Area=20Open=20Meeting.

<= div=20class=3D=22rich_html_content=22=20style=3D=22color:=20rgb(0,=200,=200= );=20word-wrap:=20break-word;=22>
Best=20Regards<= /div>Yisong=

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=20Acee=20Lindem=20(acee)=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:=202021/11/11(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=9B=9B)23:43=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=20Yisong=20Liu;spring;=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA:=20chengweiqiang;Gengxuesong=20(Geng=20Xuesong)= ;Michael=20McBride= ;Lizhenbin;=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:=20Re:=20=5Bspring=5D=20Re=EF=BC=9A=20MSR6=20si= de=20meeting=20at=20IETF=20112=0A=0AIt=20appears=20that=20it=20overlaps=20the=20Routing=20Area=20Ope= n=20Meeting=E2=80=A6=20Am=20I=20missing=20something?=0A

=0A 

=0A=0AFrom:=0Aspring=20<spring-bounces=40ie= tf.org>=20on=20behalf=20of=20Yisong=20Liu=20<liuyisong=40chinamobile.= com>
=0ADate:=20Thursday,=20November=2011,=202021=20at=207:02= =20AM
=0ATo:=20spring=20<spring=40ietf.org>
=0ACc:=20= chengweiqiang=20<chengweiqiang=40chinamobile.com>,=20=22Gengxueso= ng=20(Geng=20Xuesong)=22=20<gengxuesong=40huawei.com>,=20Michael=20Mc= Bride=20<michael.mcbride=40futurewei.com>,=20Robin=20Li=20<lizhenb= in=40huawei.com>
=0ASubject:=20=5Bspring=5D=20Re=EF=BC=9A=20MSR6=20side=20meeting=20at=20IETF=20112

=0A=0A
=0A 

=0A=0A
=0A=0AHi=20SPRING,<= /o:p>

=0A=0A 

=0A=0AAs=20a=20remin= der,=20we=20will=20have=20an=20MSR6(Multicast=20Segment=20Routing=20over=20= IPv6)=20side=20meeting=20on=20Friday.=20Please=20find=20the=20.ics=20file= =20in=20the=20attachment=20and=20the=20webex=20link=20is=20:

=0A=0Ahttps://htf-paris.my.webex.com/wbxmjs/joinservice/sites/htf-paris.my-en= /meeting/download/e1f15a5546aa4426bbee2b128f13bfca?siteurl=3Dhtf-paris.my-e= n&MTID=3Dm640f36efb4135d33151f488d1b7ba206=

=0A=0AWelcome=20to=20join=21

=0A
=0A
=0A 

=0A
=0A
=0ABest=20Regards

=0A
=0A
=0AYisong

=0A=0A=0A
=0A 

=0A
=0A= =0A
=0A=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=0AYisong=20Liu=

=0A
=0A
=0A=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:=202021/11/= 08(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E4=B8=80)17:27

=0A
=0A
= =0A=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:=0Aspring;

=0A
=0A
=0A= =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA:=0Achengweiqiang;Michael=20McBride;Lizhenbin;Gengxuesong=20(Geng=20Xuesong);

= =0A
=0A
=0A=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:=20MSR6=20side= =20meeting=20at=20IETF=20112

=0A
=0A
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A=0AHi= =20WG,

=0A=0A&= nbsp;

=0A=0AWe= =20will=20have=20a=20side=20meeting=20to=20discuss=20Multicast=20Segment=20= Routing=20over=20IPv6(MSR6)=20on=20Friday=2013:00-14:30=20UTC.

=0A=0AAgenda,=20related=20= documents=20and=20other=20information=20of=20the=20side=20meeting=20could= =20be=20found:https://trac.ietf.o= rg/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112sidemeetings .

=0A=0AWelcome=20to=20join=20t= he=20discussion=21

=0A=0A 

=0A=0ABest=20Regards

=0A=0AYisong

=0A
=0A
=0A 

=0A
=0A
=0A 

=0A
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=0A=0A=0A ------=_001_NextPart950826933_=------ From nobody Thu Nov 11 20:05:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B993A0EB3 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:05:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JsUww7Serplq for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com (mail-ot1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95A983A1181 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id h12-20020a056830034c00b0055c8458126fso12136219ote.0 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:05:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=k4yv3pFX6f1ubFieRCCg3Z1OiDdc9BgDmjEIf8ZSpB0=; b=jRIV8eIEiXvEMQQmnB8EkD5Q+p7x1WgMjFEaxc9bRhOJz/h5t5Y3iiHR72xJaT3CUF Q9QqHG279uMcYXAEnrX00mSV7wuooZwCQfIRO2BFVi8LQBNZ5h02uewOFgVlBUNPvgiT VTy0r+M4+vaI9IpJZrsO0f4RbEtQbza08XBg9g4qwWu0qmnXw7t44KV391tuPFWqfwVA baSccGd2OQVC/gfxmgkoya2Obbz4MJGXPGxCqmJ36GYb69ZxaNRFR8qwHr8ySbvcBlcs aKWS7VgI69mlrBjJ8oqnjPVbqSDTBC9yQAMJVihF/HwUIVRZwXxJsm7QRmwAQbnYgOqy Oogg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=k4yv3pFX6f1ubFieRCCg3Z1OiDdc9BgDmjEIf8ZSpB0=; b=C7ndzYOvqaZbN0JDps4k3ge7VY0TN84f6DjetdadrlnGbnNrW0rDVPNwhb0wUZPy4G oXYRdvmqWiwvF98LQQrESN6pTumUzgjjLeY0LlQY4B4zfs6mfHdI85grNYGkJ6iWOPss wgzjekcoOD7UwFspMP8/qx6V5Ek/vZ9E0KzAfU0DYc06nbzR7Egj9BDx+nW05/xw5qlO 7knoNAeiGNAYgFzb/H+wMDVV8shVBsty+Y1B25GSxHJbLUWv5u0gm993+eLhnESE+4xy hKXDsWRNPa3t1L7QptLOEabcqvXszEfK7Pp03J+GwhWKTxNsq28B7FKsmUtblqcS9iUo D/YQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533OeqrRH3/zAj71OSD6eZgD9z7+GhsSZrWmGYZzNhJ1sCJZrbPw WxK6j6nngvNNRqCNaRWrryQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/EgiFvDSZoQ5Zs+XZUVGdZyaPfB3s5GXkzQlgorNfH1IxKeXbDKLH/w3/y6DZpOaAI3JLng== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:17c5:: with SMTP id j63mr10015548otj.191.1636689944143; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:05:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:659:f8e1:bab6:4727:f344? ([2601:647:5a00:659:f8e1:bab6:4727:f344]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r5sm1122127oiw.20.2021.11.11.20.05.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:05:43 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <613BCA2C-2A83-4C66-98A9-C7E387A49837@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7B61F37C-A78F-4DA8-81A0-CF6E68223211"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:05:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: <9DF5B685-D324-404D-A552-8BC8029F09FB@cisco.com> Cc: Bob Hinden , Yisong Liu , spring , chengweiqiang , "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , Michael McBride , Lizhenbin To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <20211111195919903309035@chinamobile.com> <9DF5B685-D324-404D-A552-8BC8029F09FB@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] MSR6 side meeting at IETF 112 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 04:05:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7B61F37C-A78F-4DA8-81A0-CF6E68223211 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 11, 2021, at 7:43 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) = wrote: >=20 > It appears that it overlaps the Routing Area Open Meeting=E2=80=A6 Am = I missing something? It also overlaps with the joint 6MAN/V6OPS session. Bob >=20 > From: spring on behalf of Yisong Liu = > Date: Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 7:02 AM > To: spring > Cc: chengweiqiang , "Gengxuesong (Geng = Xuesong)" , Michael McBride = , Robin Li > Subject: [spring] Re=EF=BC=9A MSR6 side meeting at IETF 112 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi SPRING, >=20 > As a reminder, we will have an MSR6(Multicast Segment Routing over = IPv6) side meeting on Friday. Please find the .ics file in the = attachment and the webex link is : > = https://htf-paris.my.webex.com/wbxmjs/joinservice/sites/htf-paris.my-en/me= eting/download/e1f15a5546aa4426bbee2b128f13bfca?siteurl=3Dhtf-paris.my-en&= MTID=3Dm640f36efb4135d33151f488d1b7ba206 > Welcome to join! >=20 >=20 > Best Regards >=20 > Yisong >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Yisong Liu >>=20 >> =E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021/11/08(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E4=B8=80)17:27 >>=20 >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: spring; >>=20 >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA: chengweiqiang;Michael = McBride;Lizhenbin;Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong); >>=20 >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: MSR6 side meeting at IETF 112 >>=20 > Hi WG, >=20 > We will have a side meeting to discuss Multicast Segment Routing over = IPv6(MSR6) on Friday 13:00-14:30 UTC. > Agenda, related documents and other information of the side meeting = could be = found:https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112sidemeetings . > Welcome to join the discussion! >=20 > Best Regards > Yisong >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --Apple-Mail=_7B61F37C-A78F-4DA8-81A0-CF6E68223211 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pUfQlUOxxMI9LudaJVnerEoWbdk3evne0ngEwfMnrM0=; b=Az/CfxCKJNOrc+87ycVDssO8VuA3+1JtW1l1LBGBMh+ycCH6oeInNCaauKFRF124ES h3BHIbp/Gu6wdB9ilqyLMNV4nvArGq7ioKuJPcPvbbdaNbIfz0EerB8J9hlpDR3KT3LY +AF+Xn9Q387t8RxU0yIGoyiBbzkZ9dW+nsYFeZG2rfxEKD3zNsXERUEe/Eq2F4vIOK5Y fGIMFiErRPaVzNh0CApjndP66zGDXqpxBxTH6qGD/t7LdDTsDxq3CIvZv5rvl6bAy6NG OLqDXRJrXzXm6ZC0dKtUalszE40npCfU9JSiEwsYM/OanngP8ejIIua95V9usLjanY26 vMMA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533YKzpLCT2U2AfFbGAIF3n+I/6U+OP2RBGRHQuLCYQhvbmP5Qtf 5EK5w06YhTuZUx9o2hhpMpMSteIzTyufGKHNLzU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqcqhIyhqpsL3okVLCrZeN+ZWwizMzkP+oeKVMAiZhJjnoDdHTgUeieqDvQ5pfkGcsjxp8T/OULB0tGeU46Nw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:be12:b0:142:431f:3d1c with SMTP id r18-20020a170902be1200b00142431f3d1cmr5447308pls.32.1636694693868; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 21:24:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211111195919903309035@chinamobile.com> <9DF5B685-D324-404D-A552-8BC8029F09FB@cisco.com> <613BCA2C-2A83-4C66-98A9-C7E387A49837@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <613BCA2C-2A83-4C66-98A9-C7E387A49837@gmail.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 00:24:43 -0500 Message-ID: To: Bob Hinden Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , Lizhenbin , Michael McBride , Yisong Liu , chengweiqiang , spring Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d578f805d090adfd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] MSR6 side meeting at IETF 112 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 05:25:01 -0000 --000000000000d578f805d090adfd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob I will be presenting at the MSR6 session and I am presenting as well at v6OPS the hbh draft. draft-ietf-v6ops-hbh I am the first to present at v6OPS tomorrow after the chairs. MSR6 side meeting starts at 8am and I am second to present so I think I should be good to go even with the overlap. I am the only presenter for MSR6 session that is also presenting at v6OPS. Majority of the folks from Routing Area are the ones attending so I think we should be OK with this overlap as we have WG overlaps at just about every session. Impossible to attend all the sessions but the key is that the presenters don=E2=80=99t have an overlap. Kind Regards Gyan On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 11:06 PM Bob Hinden wrote: > > > > On Nov 11, 2021, at 7:43 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > It appears that it overlaps the Routing Area Open Meeting=E2=80=A6 Am I= missing > something? > > It also overlaps with the joint 6MAN/V6OPS session. > > Bob > > > > > From: spring on behalf of Yisong Liu < > liuyisong@chinamobile.com> > > Date: Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 7:02 AM > > To: spring > > Cc: chengweiqiang , "Gengxuesong (Geng > Xuesong)" , Michael McBride < > michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>, Robin Li > > Subject: [spring] Re=EF=BC=9A MSR6 side meeting at IETF 112 > > > > > > > > Hi SPRING, > > > > As a reminder, we will have an MSR6(Multicast Segment Routing over IPv6= ) > side meeting on Friday. Please find the .ics file in the attachment and t= he > webex link is : > > > https://htf-paris.my.webex.com/wbxmjs/joinservice/sites/htf-paris.my-en/m= eeting/download/e1f15a5546aa4426bbee2b128f13bfca?siteurl=3Dhtf-paris.my-en&= MTID=3Dm640f36efb4135d33151f488d1b7ba206 > > Welcome to join! > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > Yisong > > > >> > >> > >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Yisong Liu > >> > >> =E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021/11/08(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E4=B8=80)17:27 > >> > >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: spring; > >> > >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA: chengweiqiang;Michael McBride;Lizhenbin;G= engxuesong (Geng Xuesong); > >> > >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: MSR6 side meeting at IETF 112 > >> > > Hi WG, > > > > We will have a side meeting to discuss Multicast Segment Routing over > IPv6(MSR6) on Friday 13:00-14:30 UTC. > > Agenda, related documents and other information of the side meeting > could be found: > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112sidemeetings . > > Welcome to join the discussion! > > > > Best Regards > > Yisong > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com * *M 301 502-1347* --000000000000d578f805d090adfd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Bob

I will be presenting at the MSR6 session and I am presenting as well at v6= OPS the hbh draft.

draft-ietf-v6ops-hbh


I am the first to present at v6OPS tomorrow after the= chairs. =C2=A0

MSR6 sid= e meeting starts at 8am and I am second to present so I think I should be g= ood to go even with the overlap.

I am the only presenter for MSR6 session that is also presenting = at v6OPS.

Majority of th= e folks from Routing Area are the ones attending so I think we should be OK= with this overlap as we have WG overlaps at just about every session.=C2= =A0 Impossible to attend all the sessions but the key is that the presenter= s don=E2=80=99t have an overlap.

Kind Regards=C2=A0

Gyan


<=
/pre>

On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 11:06 PM Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> wrote:


> On Nov 11, 2021, at 7:43 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf= .org> wrote:
>
> It appears that it overlaps the Routing Area Open Meeting=E2=80=A6 Am = I missing something?

It also overlaps with the joint 6MAN/V6OPS session.

Bob

>
> From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Yisong Liu <liuyisong@chinamobi= le.com>
> Date: Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 7:02 AM
> To: spring <sp= ring@ietf.org>
> Cc: chengweiqiang <chengweiqiang@chinamobile.com>, "Gengxuesong= (Geng Xuesong)" <gengxuesong@huawei.com>, Michael McBride <michael.mcbride@fut= urewei.com>, Robin Li <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
> Subject: [spring] Re=EF=BC=9A MSR6 side meeting at IETF 112
>
>
>
> Hi SPRING,
>
> As a reminder, we will have an MSR6(Multicast Segment Routing over IPv= 6) side meeting on Friday. Please find the .ics file in the attachment and = the webex link is :
> https://htf-paris.my.webex.com/wbxmjs/joinservice/sit= es/htf-paris.my-en/meeting/download/e1f15a5546aa4426bbee2b128f13bfca?siteur= l=3Dhtf-paris.my-en&MTID=3Dm640f36efb4135d33151f488d1b7ba206
> Welcome to join!
>
>
> Best Regards
>
> Yisong
>
>>
>>
>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Yisong Liu
>>
>> =E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021/11/08(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E4=B8=80)17:27 >>
>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: spring;
>>
>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA: chengweiqiang;Michael McBride;Lizhenb= in;Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong);
>>
>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: MSR6 side meeting at IETF 112
>>
> Hi WG,
>
> We will have a side meeting to discuss Multicast Segment Routing over = IPv6(MSR6) on Friday 13:00-14:30 UTC.
> Agenda, related documents and other information of the side meeting co= uld be found:https://trac.ietf.org/trac/= ietf/meeting/wiki/112sidemeetings .
> Welcome to join the discussion!
>
> Best Regards
> Yisong
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
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Halpern" , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AdfWxkr7F7QH+ez4kU2nZMz3ifw+lgAFPryAAC2ntiA= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 08:55:36 +0000 Message-ID: <739c63b0dade4ee6a60ab55a6de96b49@huawei.com> References: <8329b70fa8254c0a9d0c1465dc920361@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.40.195] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 08:55:47 -0000 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7bit From: David Schinazi via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <163674345706.30641.15234787368216619753@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: David Schinazi Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 10:57:37 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:57:37 -0000 Reviewer: David Schinazi Review result: Ready with Issues I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14 Reviewer: David Schinazi Review Date: 2021-11-12 IETF LC End Date: 2021-11-24 IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat Summary: Well written document. A few minor issues which should be trivial to address. Major issues: None Minor issues: - in s2.7, please specify if a higher number is more preferred or less preferred - in s5.1, I would replace "A Segment-List of an explicit candidate path MUST be declared invalid when:" with "A Segment-List of an explicit candidate path MUST be declared invalid when any of the following is true:" (unless you mean "all of the following" Nits/editorial comments: - the term headend is never defined. If it's a term of art in this area perhaps a reference to the document that defines it would help? But if every reader is expected to know the term because of the required context then that might be OK. 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Sat, 13 Nov 2021 02:09:45 +0000 From: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" To: SPRING WG CC: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , "Chengli (Cheng Li)" Thread-Topic: SR Policy: per-SL reverse Thread-Index: AdfYL+6J0ITpvEwbRg6N1m3sR9FWRw== Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 02:09:44 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1cd9c9fb-8c8c-4075-2ca2-08d9a64aa970 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB1305: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:5797; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR11MB38022A72FA83C96D1A8099EED3969DM6PR11MB3802namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR11MB3802.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1cd9c9fb-8c8c-4075-2ca2-08d9a64aa970 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Nov 2021 02:09:44.9507 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pOSZ0jBZrCqqWU+6bNWRd46zdKw0839qx7Z7t+ecvLF5uPNbnpVEQTXYpe3PCr8m/aguLviorPwXhbMjGkxguA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1305 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.20, xbe-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 02:10:10 -0000 --_000_DM6PR11MB38022A72FA83C96D1A8099EED3969DM6PR11MB3802namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi SPRING WG, During the PCE session there was a presentation about signaling per-SL (Seg= ment List) reverse paths, see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-i= etf-pce-multipath-03#section-4.5. I received comments to bring this up in t= he SPRING WG. In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in opposite directions, some= thing like this: SR policy POL1 Candidate-path CP1 SID-List =3D SR policy POL2 Candidate-path CP1 SID-List =3D Where and are two segment lists that can be considered "opposit= es" of each other, maybe traversing the same links in reverse, or maybe jus= t the same nodes, etc. However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment lists, it gets more compl= icated: SR policy POL1 Candidate-path CP1 SID-List =3D SID-List =3D SR policy POL2 Candidate-path CP1 SID-List =3D SID-List =3D Where and are opposites, also and are opposites. REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multiple reverse SLs correspon= d to the same forward SL. For example, if the forward SL is using Node Segm= ent(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segments to cover multiple E= CMP paths in reverse. REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is a reverse of SL 2, but= SL 2 is *not* a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not mutually reverse. REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to every forward SL is usef= ul even if there is no actual SR Policy in the reverse direction. I.e., if = there's just a unidirectional "forward" SR Policy that needs to know the re= turn paths for each of its SLs. Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about reverse SLs. I'm reque= sting the WG to review the proposal and decide if we should standardize thi= s. Thanks, Mike. --_000_DM6PR11MB38022A72FA83C96D1A8099EED3969DM6PR11MB3802namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi SPRING WG,

 

During the PCE session there was a presentation abou= t signaling per-SL (Segment List) reverse paths, see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#section-4= .5. I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG.

 

In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in op= posite directions, something like this:

 

SR policy POL1 <headend =3D PE1, endpoint =3D PE2= >

  Candidate-path CP1

    SID-List =3D <ABC>

 

SR policy POL2 <headend =3D PE2, endpoint =3D PE1= >

  Candidate-path CP1

    SID-List =3D <CBA>

 

Where <ABC> and <CBA> are two segment li= sts that can be considered “opposites” of each other, maybe tra= versing the same links in reverse, or maybe just the same nodes, etc.<= /o:p>

 

However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment li= sts, it gets more complicated:

 

SR policy POL1 <headend =3D PE1, endpoint =3D PE2= >

  Candidate-path CP1

    SID-List =3D <ABC>

    SID-List =3D <DEF>

 

SR policy POL2 <headend =3D PE2, endpoint =3D PE1= >

  Candidate-path CP1

    SID-List =3D <CBA>

    SID-List =3D <FED>

 

Where <ABC> and <CBA> are opposites, als= o <DEF> and <FED> are opposites.

 

REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multipl= e reverse SLs correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forwar= d SL is using Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segme= nts to cover multiple ECMP paths in reverse.

 

REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is= a reverse of SL 2, but SL 2 is *not* a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not m= utually reverse.

 

REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to e= very forward SL is useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the rever= se direction. I.e., if there’s just a unidirectional “forward&#= 8221; SR Policy that needs to know the return paths for each of its SLs.

 

Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about= reverse SLs. I’m requesting the WG to review the proposal and decide= if we should standardize this.

 

Thanks,

Mike.

--_000_DM6PR11MB38022A72FA83C96D1A8099EED3969DM6PR11MB3802namp_-- From nobody Fri Nov 12 18:56:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9507E3A0FD4; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:56:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fh1i231j1Ila; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:55:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua1-x92a.google.com (mail-ua1-x92a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42E543A0FD2; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua1-x92a.google.com with SMTP id n6so6159418uak.1; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:55:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qrvrFs4F/LJnJulpt6ktuoNsgXToA75c02kYBoJGUDg=; b=JzLFbMR6rAGovTj/iRDW+ZXGrYA3IvmWaO1JWB3juji3fGsJa7arzHzqKGudznP6G+ 1Jnq6iwlKDxsnucmTlHEoEWNJLDc+JmNwPNMR2CJ3Dy2i6Q4kaGf9+ryJUcoBLA9vU3x mn6LakzGI08NaZ3nPEakT6FiqEhl+pX2WNsyIAR85JhjcZYTKFVbeSmO0V5qxay+9U8l YW3CWMMEpTik/WglLQOilAllmksUjXD56XHAX+egXbRZeiqSP/Pl656nRrUjCLL0Ob2k CM7yJ6w+UKqjLXb2q2LDmzMgSqNj91f/n8jKes98Rmlo1jgj5CFOTD489mrjZT0cr7sS pO2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qrvrFs4F/LJnJulpt6ktuoNsgXToA75c02kYBoJGUDg=; b=yG3Rlq58yqkCihRgThMFzszPK9te0bprz4VA8EIrSQuu4PDbmbo7pcLtvbAB6qHbW3 xa8YSpQRly41ICrIGtFKjPfQ714ZFFz5/CXhnXvPiDY/T7t9s0RJEhDp33d7m7WHLnNr W0RdPKPqii2zOKD/zC5W/AGNFPrGt9bNzjj7ouwNbf6/vsHjQHcVs0x0EACvrhzz6C9U FZGdiEA/yR+yVovtAMMu++w1gZdiJ+iwi/3raf9ljtP2pkwPUcAKmb928HsZtY1t4PL9 difUU3zJVo5QY3IvhepMEYaYqtlxwA1+IefiVHqN31X9U6cMi4CRnWtKn9Bmc5b/M/id +lOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532rhg5ZgdzVXNLDRXQMXoQNxt6eeW4wXvPTT+7w3ERBjSJIE61k WicEwJD/6X78SsZInSvk7H+pB2UfhDofbnk+s/M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwL3TnKD59cdixIRvl3rHqWtkH98xfmdIqkdGWMDrLOtPW4h22h6yN/Ap8qgsg4vEWqSLkajuy7vJIPlMlFi8A= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fa0f:: with SMTP id i15mr16105968vsq.16.1636772152878; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:55:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163674345706.30641.15234787368216619753@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <163674345706.30641.15234787368216619753@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Ketan Talaulikar Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 08:25:41 +0530 Message-ID: To: David Schinazi Cc: gen-art@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c027d105d0a2b67f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 02:56:03 -0000 --000000000000c027d105d0a2b67f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi David, Thanks for your review and please check in-line below. On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 at 00:27, David Schinazi via Datatracker < noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > Reviewer: David Schinazi > Review result: Ready with Issues > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. > > For more information, please see the FAQ at > . > > Document: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14 > Reviewer: David Schinazi > Review Date: 2021-11-12 > IETF LC End Date: 2021-11-24 > IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat > > Summary: Well written document. A few minor issues which should be trivial > to > address. > > Major issues: None > > Minor issues: > - in s2.7, please specify if a higher number is more preferred or less > preferred > KT> Higher value is more preferred. This is specified in 2.9, but I agree it is better to also say so in 2.7. Will fix it in the next update. > - in s5.1, I would replace "A Segment-List of an explicit candidate path > MUST > be declared invalid when:" with "A Segment-List of an explicit candidate > path > MUST be declared invalid when any of the following is true:" (unless you > mean > "all of the following" > KT> Good catch. Indeed it is "any". Will fix it in the next update. > Nits/editorial comments: > - the term headend is never defined. If it's a term of art in this area > perhaps > a reference to the document that defines it would help? But if every > reader is > expected to know the term because of the required context then that might > be OK. > KT> It is a term that is expected to be known but I agree it is helpful to explain. I'll propose the following text in bold in the introduction: Segment Routing [RFC8402] allows a headend node to steer a packet flow along any path. *The headend is a node where the instructions for source routing (i.e. segments) are instantiated into the packet and hence becomes the starting node for a specific segment routing path.* Intermediate per-path states are eliminated thanks to source routing. Thanks, Ketan --000000000000c027d105d0a2b67f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi David,

Thanks for y= our review and please check in-line below.


On Sat, 13 N= ov 2021 at 00:27, David Schinazi via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
Reviewer: David Schinazi
Review result: Ready with Issues

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.=C2=A0 Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq&g= t;.

Document: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14
Reviewer: David Schinazi
Review Date: 2021-11-12
IETF LC End Date: 2021-11-24
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat

Summary: Well written document. A few minor issues which should be trivial = to
address.

Major issues: None

Minor issues:
- in s2.7, please specify if a higher number is more preferred or less pref= erred
KT> Higher value is more preferred. This is s= pecified in 2.9, but I agree it is better to also say so in 2.7. Will fix i= t in the next update.
=C2=A0
- in s5.1, I would replace "A Segment-List of an explicit candidate pa= th MUST
be declared invalid when:" with "A Segment-List of an explicit ca= ndidate path
MUST be declared invalid when any of the following is true:" (unless y= ou mean
"all of the following"
KT> Good catch. In= deed it is "any". Will fix it in the next update.

<= /div>

Nits/editorial comments:
- the term headend is never defined. If it's a term of art in this area= perhaps
a reference to the document that defines it would help? But if every reader= is
expected to know the term because of the required context then that might b= e OK.
KT> It is a term that is expected to be known= but I agree it is helpful to explain. I'll propose the following text = in bold in the introduction:

Segment Routing [RFC8= 402]=C2=A0allows a headend node to steer a packet flow along any path. T= he headend is a node where the instructions for source routing (i.e. segmen= ts) are instantiated into the packet and hence becomes the starting node fo= r a specific segment routing path. Intermediate per-path states are eli= minated thanks to source routing.

Thanks,
Ketan

--000000000000c027d105d0a2b67f-- From nobody Fri Nov 12 19:21:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94083A0FEC for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:21:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VMvFTfIA6HZG for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua1-x92f.google.com (mail-ua1-x92f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81A2A3A0FE8 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua1-x92f.google.com with SMTP id e10so22880993uab.3 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:21:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NQT7d7JT7b/EIjSfGu9OxBDAw3sMpYZYGACH6xH5Gt0=; b=h4ghNbk/wx1UkUD21cdBccAJLMEn40+ZOQgPatZQBrnbppXrduh75DOswINiJnA6B1 xhcp6eGyfrGqiIu0sHA1Fhrk55RWRq+vIgC6wymoWu7Xu0iWZHUK7BK4e3j5w3RSv2rT Ui0JTl3I9jz0PLr1FcJJFPmF4xTYZYRPq3Ues5l3t6KrcdQiKYYTdTXQEbJwqzopQYi5 2eKtGPjoz8FmyXfwfmOKIuY+L0KJX4AAlg9pz/9wMmG72xQb3P82ysVacd1ZuFYwz16k u25Rz1SX8q4a3K89OTqja5zSYjP7ja/6iy77nw49c0nqjf+6vFnEQ3rUQjN1thnA3CAN QVDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NQT7d7JT7b/EIjSfGu9OxBDAw3sMpYZYGACH6xH5Gt0=; b=T5TaZO0MEXOFZsShrlDwdiJsU/4mMY5gchlE81dFcRjrKolWIsWEYF3nGqs9bccHmq J/A4zAxHqK+T8AvE5S4GHkI+LR8LLiHZwCm9YyNzNAMt96d0zuBcqCIQWIh81YV2Oc73 3EbLwL80jihZxeORe24TobuTlL2nUfIpAuf9HISzutCWsFvDh0FNzHtkwVU25qm/H2qp vxRWBmg507nBhXPVnse3lRoUG/Nh/notTBcMYl9sTtkOXmiDDCYlhx/F+WXJcWL/7hNc DBCezAp6eDSyZ5pt/DkDWc7o9bOsAXYy9f3FWrt+RuHPa0JzKFgYFozv/XK17dX6ZIL+ 5v3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530g/di4R3Gmy4GJluTBlLMktyCr2B/F/pJbQSokryz+TCHf9njm S7n3mZ3w+/arPsUm9KPu2tP9Hd3fn+yf4p24ancYLU8Sk90= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxW0eu4qB4RkdWouKdbAblihoe6YoLMJmhW3A4qOO0KwEZMe+2PCr+b/nORFTGjrwd/ji6kwnaiiuj2Ivxdt+s= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:3f44:: with SMTP id i4mr29666063uaj.28.1636773664693; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:21:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ketan Talaulikar Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 08:50:53 +0530 Message-ID: To: mkoldych=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: SPRING WG , "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , "Chengli (Cheng Li)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dca11405d0a3107e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 03:21:11 -0000 --000000000000dca11405d0a3107e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike, You are right that the SR Policy architecture draft does not talk about reverse SLs. But it also doesn't talk about bidirectional paths or aspects like the use of association objects for disjoint paths. At one point in time, some of us (WG members) were of the view that these aspects may be covered in the standards track draft but such topics were moved out to an informational draft draft-filsfils-spring-sr-policy-considerations as these were use-cases. Specifically on the point of "reverse SL", I think that the term is misleading. The SLs in a given SR Policy are always ordered in the forward direction (head to tail). This is not being changed. That there is another SR Policy with an SL having a reverse order of segment is more of a path computation constraint. There is no change or update required for this to the SR Policy architecture. Today, we already have protocol mechanisms defined for various constraints and their use-cases - those again are not covered by the SR Policy architecture document (some are in the companion information document that we stopped updating at a point). In summary, there is nothing that I see in this new/proposed work that changes what we have in the SR Policy document. Whether we need to start a new document (not standards but informational in my view as this is a use-case), I leave it to the WG and chairs. My preference would be to incorporate such use-cases in the existing informational draft if the WG does want to take up this work. Thanks, Ketan On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 at 07:40, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > Hi SPRING WG, > > > > During the PCE session there was a presentation about signaling per-SL > (Segment List) reverse paths, see > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#section= -4.5. > I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG. > > > > In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in opposite directions, > something like this: > > > > SR policy POL1 > > Candidate-path CP1 > > SID-List =3D > > > > SR policy POL2 > > Candidate-path CP1 > > SID-List =3D > > > > Where and are two segment lists that can be considered > =E2=80=9Copposites=E2=80=9D of each other, maybe traversing the same link= s in reverse, or > maybe just the same nodes, etc. > > > > However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment lists, it gets more > complicated: > > > > SR policy POL1 > > Candidate-path CP1 > > SID-List =3D > > SID-List =3D > > > > SR policy POL2 > > Candidate-path CP1 > > SID-List =3D > > SID-List =3D > > > > Where and are opposites, also and are opposites. > > > > REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multiple reverse SLs > correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forward SL is usin= g > Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segments to cover > multiple ECMP paths in reverse. > > > > REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is a reverse of SL 2, > but SL 2 is **not** a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not mutually reverse. > > > > REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to every forward SL is > useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the reverse direction. I.e= ., > if there=E2=80=99s just a unidirectional =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80=9D SR Pol= icy that needs to know the > return paths for each of its SLs. > > > > Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about reverse SLs. I=E2=80= =99m > requesting the WG to review the proposal and decide if we should > standardize this. > > > > Thanks, > > Mike. > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000dca11405d0a3107e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mike,

You are right that the SR Poli= cy architecture draft does not talk about reverse SLs. But it also doesn= 9;t talk about bidirectional paths or aspects like the use of association o= bjects for disjoint paths. At one point in time, some of us (WG members) we= re of the view that these aspects may be covered in the standards track dra= ft but such topics were moved out to an informational draft=C2=A0draft-fils= fils-spring-sr-policy-considerations as these were use-cases.
Specifically on the point of "reverse SL", I think th= at the term is misleading. The SLs in a given SR Policy are always ordered = in the forward direction (head to tail). This is not being changed. That th= ere is another SR Policy with an SL having a reverse order of segment is mo= re of a path computation constraint. There is no change or update required = for this to the SR Policy architecture.

Today, we = already have protocol mechanisms defined for various constraints and their = use-cases - those again are not covered by the SR Policy architecture docum= ent (some are in the companion information document that we stopped updatin= g at a point).=C2=A0

In summary, there is nothing = that I see in this new/proposed work that changes what we have in the SR Po= licy document. Whether we need to start a new document (not standards but i= nformational in my view as this is a use-case), I leave it to the WG and ch= airs. My preference would be to incorporate such use-cases in the existing = informational draft if the WG does want to take up this work.
Thanks,
Ketan


On Sat, 13 Nov 2021= at 07:40, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

Hi SPRING WG,

=C2=A0

During the PCE session there was a presentation abou= t signaling per-SL (Segment List) reverse paths, see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#section-4= .5. I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG.

=C2=A0

In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in op= posite directions, something like this:

=C2=A0

SR policy POL1 <headend =3D PE1, endpoint =3D PE2= >

=C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <ABC>

=C2=A0

SR policy POL2 <headend =3D PE2, endpoint =3D PE1= >

=C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0SID-List =3D <CBA>

=C2=A0

Where <ABC> and <CBA> are two segment li= sts that can be considered =E2=80=9Copposites=E2=80=9D of each other, maybe= traversing the same links in reverse, or maybe just the same nodes, etc.

=C2=A0

However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment li= sts, it gets more complicated:

=C2=A0

SR policy POL1 <headend =3D PE1, endpoint =3D PE2= >

=C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <ABC>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <DEF>

=C2=A0

SR policy POL2 <headend =3D PE2, endpoint =3D PE1= >

=C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <CBA>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <FED>

=C2=A0

Where <ABC> and <CBA> are opposites, als= o <DEF> and <FED> are opposites.

=C2=A0

REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multipl= e reverse SLs correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forwar= d SL is using Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segme= nts to cover multiple ECMP paths in reverse.

=C2=A0

REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is= a reverse of SL 2, but SL 2 is *not* a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not m= utually reverse.

=C2=A0

REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to e= very forward SL is useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the rever= se direction. I.e., if there=E2=80=99s just a unidirectional =E2=80=9Cforwa= rd=E2=80=9D SR Policy that needs to know the return paths for each of its SLs.

=C2=A0

Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about= reverse SLs. I=E2=80=99m requesting the WG to review the proposal and deci= de if we should standardize this.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Mike.

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000dca11405d0a3107e-- From nobody Fri Nov 12 19:53:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4035B3A1036 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:53:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.43 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.33, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5iwuykY0poPU for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D24C83A1037 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HrhPN59SPz6G9KW; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:52:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636775576; bh=j+45PsE5nCHENAa/1dFpCCOvCIrVpKk1lXTXewYsNbY=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=AqonKlu7AnJdJWg/C88d1IsvY8HGOqP1zBI4Do0eoO5zcsBhH2rGRFGj409ZS5Hcb lIpXs4pQJoyo8mRHV7Qo468vTz/SPiB6hhvQ1S9PMsr1a48c62SrMViXs2AT/L7nV+ roGNCXn1r3bg6AiePOFjIyaMaUPKcSimAhy6vHRQ= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4HrhPM2K3Jz6G9B3; Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:52:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <41e3e112-9154-d534-b79e-38970c538923@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 22:52:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" , SPRING WG Cc: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , "Chengli (Cheng Li)" References: From: "Joel M. Halpern" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 03:53:01 -0000 I am missing something. In what context is it important to say that policy 2 is intended to represent the reverse of policy 1? Yours, Joel On 11/12/2021 9:09 PM, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > Hi SPRING WG, > > During the PCE session there was a presentation about signaling per-SL > (Segment List) reverse paths, see > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#section-4.5 > . > I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG. > > In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in opposite directions, > something like this: > > SR policy POL1 > >   Candidate-path CP1 > >     SID-List = > > SR policy POL2 > >   Candidate-path CP1 > >     SID-List = > > Where and are two segment lists that can be considered > “opposites” of each other, maybe traversing the same links in reverse, > or maybe just the same nodes, etc. > > However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment lists, it gets more > complicated: > > SR policy POL1 > >   Candidate-path CP1 > >     SID-List = > >     SID-List = > > SR policy POL2 > >   Candidate-path CP1 > >     SID-List = > >     SID-List = > > Where and are opposites, also and are opposites. > > REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multiple reverse SLs > correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forward SL is > using Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segments > to cover multiple ECMP paths in reverse. > > REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is a reverse of SL 2, > but SL 2 is **not** a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not mutually reverse. > > REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to every forward SL is > useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the reverse direction. > I.e., if there’s just a unidirectional “forward” SR Policy that needs to > know the return paths for each of its SLs. > > Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about reverse SLs. I’m > requesting the WG to review the proposal and decide if we should > standardize this. > > Thanks, > > Mike. > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Sat Nov 13 09:51:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288493A14A6; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:51:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YbimKJEM5zsX; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x633.google.com (mail-pl1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::633]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C232B3A1490; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x633.google.com with SMTP id b11so10956044pld.12; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:51:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wi2qK0bIvP7qjw3rSHcegnxBXUbCUMLSX8x4wJdgur0=; b=afvdY60ClN/2V1rqSv0uZMRFQsY5HgFCYpM+RUwx5jTqPoCvLv9DEJjxhXtO12S+mJ x5qIFm4wGM6AEHGntw/GEJ3MkcZzAhMDufUhPVL0kUIT+51PBANE74eJHDPFAD36AL58 +O9kj4q/2CBMamX7heBgNGLvkLtn6T+2VttDi10oQ+qLjMUDXQL+x5M8s9A02Z3EwLTo cD/alzC0dmZEU/ugc5ANvp7NwCk3SF06LgJMgyLcv3iLuDyFiRmQ3a4gHp98GllteFZo jUoRS2cbdhP/3KSbI+NM7hKyMpdHB51up6/fQwS/BcDZZxgNUGMsVECcyj4j9g8p0msh HCRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wi2qK0bIvP7qjw3rSHcegnxBXUbCUMLSX8x4wJdgur0=; b=xozzbRJ101xSrdj3fWtwSwe8KEaaumAkj3U5ZIpnhkQLR48LzSgZTcwl6ep3c1/ysi 5RP5hjN4D1CwxvwboTqVf8Xn2w3z248EIMev9W1NzGa6+LrG36/ymvlKMNx3FeZ66vyw WsG0wJXvFH35Ee6YXl659BVbzbbo46pp6Xvhuz3Rq0AKG8T2ZR5tf8aQnN6VTXqQXBit LHYLSmzNbQG8zgQq/Sp763/FNBa6IgXlBm3y5chM0Zp59A9ld7tlsFTPkLLDaUUjWF54 /9dG1be5NkEDtHwjnH3cI/DM9PA2m52qozcsLVO8ae2X5lFqNQYwg5yjpbN/qM6WKphN KhGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531E4z7/1fqPXzmN1fFb31Gc/cnt8jsax/2sR9ZhL84VF01XgobU jqK2oUoh+sSodj5B9T5bVLWx3QTuwhmIssg9zIU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz5KfKTS6S3l4APTWZfoyi2BidU1OZGA1Xc1cV1/mUI2gTK0yzcLji35KoVSwEwn6TM846NLejmwfWGB+AWIp8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1bca:: with SMTP id oa10mr30254981pjb.20.1636825881858; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:51:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163674345706.30641.15234787368216619753@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: David Schinazi Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:51:11 -0800 Message-ID: To: Ketan Talaulikar Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy.all@ietf.org, gen-art@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003f593805d0af3943" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 17:51:28 -0000 --0000000000003f593805d0af3943 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" That sounds great, thanks! David On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 18:55 Ketan Talaulikar wrote: > Hi David, > > Thanks for your review and please check in-line below. > > > On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 at 00:27, David Schinazi via Datatracker < > noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > >> Reviewer: David Schinazi >> Review result: Ready with Issues >> >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just >> like any other last call comments. >> >> For more information, please see the FAQ at >> . >> >> Document: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14 >> Reviewer: David Schinazi >> Review Date: 2021-11-12 >> IETF LC End Date: 2021-11-24 >> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat >> >> Summary: Well written document. A few minor issues which should be >> trivial to >> address. >> >> Major issues: None >> >> Minor issues: >> - in s2.7, please specify if a higher number is more preferred or less >> preferred >> > KT> Higher value is more preferred. This is specified in 2.9, but I agree > it is better to also say so in 2.7. Will fix it in the next update. > > >> - in s5.1, I would replace "A Segment-List of an explicit candidate path >> MUST >> be declared invalid when:" with "A Segment-List of an explicit candidate >> path >> MUST be declared invalid when any of the following is true:" (unless you >> mean >> "all of the following" >> > KT> Good catch. Indeed it is "any". Will fix it in the next update. > > >> Nits/editorial comments: >> - the term headend is never defined. If it's a term of art in this area >> perhaps >> a reference to the document that defines it would help? But if every >> reader is >> expected to know the term because of the required context then that might >> be OK. >> > KT> It is a term that is expected to be known but I agree it is helpful to > explain. I'll propose the following text in bold in the introduction: > > Segment Routing [RFC8402] allows a headend node to steer a packet flow > along any path. *The headend is a node where the instructions for source > routing (i.e. segments) are instantiated into the packet and hence becomes > the starting node for a specific segment routing path.* Intermediate > per-path states are eliminated thanks to source routing. > > Thanks, > Ketan > > --0000000000003f593805d0af3943 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That sounds great, thanks!
David


On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 18:55 Ketan Talaulik= ar <ketant.ietf@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
Hi Da= vid,

Thanks for your review and please check in-line bel= ow.


On Sat, 13 Nov 2021 at 00:27, David Schinazi via Da= tatracker <noreply= @ietf.org> wrote:
Reviewer: David Schina= zi
Review result: Ready with Issues

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.=C2=A0 Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq&g= t;.

Document: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14
Reviewer: David Schinazi
Review Date: 2021-11-12
IETF LC End Date: 2021-11-24
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat

Summary: Well written document. A few minor issues which should be trivial = to
address.

Major issues: None

Minor issues:
- in s2.7, please specify if a higher number is more preferred or less pref= erred
KT> Higher value is more preferred. This is s= pecified in 2.9, but I agree it is better to also say so in 2.7. Will fix i= t in the next update.
=C2=A0
- in s5.1, I would replace "A Segment-List of an explicit candidate pa= th MUST
be declared invalid when:" with "A Segment-List of an explicit ca= ndidate path
MUST be declared invalid when any of the following is true:" (unless y= ou mean
"all of the following"
KT> Good catch. In= deed it is "any". Will fix it in the next update.

<= /div>

Nits/editorial comments:
- the term headend is never defined. If it's a term of art in this area= perhaps
a reference to the document that defines it would help? But if every reader= is
expected to know the term because of the required context then that might b= e OK.
KT> It is a term that is expected to be known= but I agree it is helpful to explain. I'll propose the following text = in bold in the introduction:

Segment Routing [RFC8= 402]=C2=A0allows a headend node to steer a packet flow along any path. T= he headend is a node where the instructions for source routing (i.e. segmen= ts) are instantiated into the packet and hence becomes the starting node fo= r a specific segment routing path. Intermediate per-path states are eli= minated thanks to source routing.

Thanks,
Ketan

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Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:20:47 +0800 From: "Chengli (Cheng Li)" To: Ketan Talaulikar , "mkoldych=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" CC: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , SPRING WG Thread-Topic: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse Thread-Index: AdfYL+6J0ITpvEwbRg6N1m3sR9FWR///lPSA//waa0A= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 07:20:47 +0000 Message-ID: <0e6a03d6221e4ecc87c153b8fed1ed33@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.40.81] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0e6a03d6221e4ecc87c153b8fed1ed33huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 07:20:59 -0000 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[192.168.164.217]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id DA843A10E2619B7DA750; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:16:21 +0800 (CST) Received: from mse-fl2.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.14.239]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id B87352F932E680F53FC3; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:16:21 +0800 (CST) Received: from njxapp01.zte.com.cn ([10.41.132.200]) by mse-fl2.zte.com.cn with SMTP id 1AF9FxYB078916; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:15:59 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn) Received: from mapi (njxapp05[null]) by mapi (Zmail) with MAPI id mid201; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:15:59 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:15:59 +0800 (CST) X-Zmail-TransId: 2afd6192254f5e127713 X-Mailer: Zmail v1.0 Message-ID: <202111151715594978119@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: References: 202111091131582189249@zte.com.cn, SA1PR05MB82100D9092AE3CB74C11259ABE989@SA1PR05MB8210.namprd05.prod.outlook.com Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Cc: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-MAIL: mse-fl2.zte.com.cn 1AF9FxYB078916 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Questions_about_REPLACEB6_of_draft-salih-spri?= =?utf-8?q?ng-srv6-inter-domain-sids?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:16:30 -0000 Hi Rajesh, The allocation of End.DT/DX SIDs are generally determined by the configuration of allocation mode on egress PE, and are stable after allocation, i.e., without affection by the BGP next-hop resolve processing. And, the forwarding behavior of END.DT/DX is also different, so that they must be instantiated separately. However, the difference between REPLACE and REPLACEB6 is negligible, they are both SID swap behavior. Let me put it another way, would you plan to define a new endpoint behavior for each case when the resolved outer tunnel to BGP next-hop is SRv6 policy, or GRE, or MPLS, ... etc ? Regards, PSF ------------------原始邮件------------------ 发件人：RajeshM 收件人：彭少富10053815;draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids@ietf.org; 抄送人：spring@ietf.org; 日 期 ：2021年11月15日 11:27 主 题 ：Re: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids Hi Peng, Thanks for the draft acknowledgement. Regarding your question about REPLACE/ REPLACEB6 Why we need DT4/DT6/DT46/ DX6/DX4 sids, they are also " local behavior of the BGP egress speaker". End.DX6 - Decapsulation and IPv6 Cross-Connect. End.DX4: Decapsulation and IPv4 Cross-Connect End.DT6: Decapsulation and Specific IPv6 Table Lookup End.DT4: Decapsulation and Specific IPv4 Table Lookup End.DT46: Decapsulation and Specific IP Table Lookup By having separate SID at egress for each Endpoint Behavior, it will be well defined. On similar lines we have well defined Endpoint Behavior REPLACE and REPLACEB6 sids. Hope this clarifies. Thanks Rajesh Juniper Business Use Only -----Original Message----- From: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 9:02 AM To: draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi authors, Thanks for bringing SRv6 SID swaping idea in the distributed scenario. I think there is valid case when the target prefix originated from remote domain is invisible or unreachable to the intermediate nodes of the local domain, and the intermediate nodes of the local domain have routes to the REPLACE SID allocated by the border node of the local domain. However, the question as I raised at the meeting, REPLACEB6 may be not necessary, because it is the local behavior of the BGP speaker to swap a single SID or a segment list. It may be not appropriate to advertise prefix with REPLACE behavior to the upstream neighbor at time-1, and re-advertise the same prefix with REPLACEB6 behavior at time-2 just because its forwarding information is changed from a single outgoing SID to a SID list. Otherwise, it will cause excessive advertisement overhead in the network. Just like MPLS BGP-LU, the difference of a single outgoing label or an outgoing label stack at the local node is not aware by upstream node. There may be some reasons for re-advertisement, such as the need to announce a new metric, but these reasons do not support the need for REPLACEB6. Regards, PSF _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Mon Nov 15 08:26:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B44B3A0E25 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 08:26:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=aWNW6uXp; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=uxvfJo7o Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rsYZHbTcXZU6 for ; 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, Would you mind reviewing this draft and giving your comments? Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ A new version of I-D, draft-chen-pce-sr-ingress-protection-07.txt has been successfully submitted by Huaimo Chen and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-chen-pce-sr-ingress-protection Revision: 07 Title: Path Ingress Protections Document date: 2021-11-13 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 22 URL: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps= %3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-pce-sr-ingress-protection= -07.txt&data=3D04%7C01%7CHuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C9595017592264777= 276008d9a7021648%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6377244496914= 20416%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I= k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DQcMEuLlNgf5Vm6t2EQOs9VYh8sVRfKTW88= 9uoZNNurc%3D&reserved=3D0 Status: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps= %3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-pce-sr-ingress-protection%= 2F&data=3D04%7C01%7CHuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C959501759226477727600= 8d9a7021648%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637724449691420416= %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW= wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DyUT6B1%2BkQ3DQxj85mP9xyE%2F3jV4kD7%2FvP= S%2Fc5Ml0pEs%3D&reserved=3D0 Htmlized: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps= %3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-chen-pce-sr-ingress-prot= ection&data=3D04%7C01%7CHuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C95950175922647772= 76008d9a7021648%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63772444969142= 0416%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik= 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3D715W0xjH6s1TAK9aYbLAiSIXQ0Lx6Tk0%2F= uP8sh83ZL4%3D&reserved=3D0 Diff: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps= %3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-chen-pce-sr-ingress-protecti= on-07&data=3D04%7C01%7CHuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C959501759226477727= 6008d9a7021648%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637724449691420= 416%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1= haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3Dl7YEwXlj3bdPPfXKmi%2F1lJR4%2FUB8MYOb= U7KGAXIlHP0%3D&reserved=3D0 Abstract: This document describes extensions to Path Computation Element (PCE) communication Protocol (PCEP) for fast protecting the ingress nodes of two types of paths or tunnels, which are Segment Routing (SR) paths and Bit Index Explicit Replication Tree/Traffic Engineering (BIER-TE) paths. The extensions comprise a foundation for protecting the ingress nodes of different types of paths. Based on this, the ingress protection of a new type of paths can be easily supported. The IETF Secretariat --_000_BY3PR13MB5044EC25F050767FBE354BDBF2989BY3PR13MB5044namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,

    Would you mind reviewing this draft and giving your comments?=

Best Regards,
Huaimo
A new version of I-D, draft-chen-pc= e-sr-ingress-protection-07.txt
has been successfully submitted by Huaimo Chen a= nd posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-che= n-pce-sr-ingress-protection
Revision:       07
Title:          Path Ingress P= rotections
Document date:  2021-11-13
Group:          Individual Sub= mission
Pages:          22
URL:            https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-pce-sr-ingress-protection-07.txt&amp;= data=3D04%7C01%7CHuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C9595017592264777276008d9a702= 1648%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637724449691420416%7CUnkn= own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV= CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DQcMEuLlNgf5Vm6t2EQOs9VYh8sVRfKTW889uoZNNur= c%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
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Abstract:
   This document describes extensions to Path Computation Element= (PCE)
   communication Protocol (PCEP) for fast protecting the ingress = nodes
   of two types of paths or tunnels, which are Segment Routing (S= R)
   paths and Bit Index Explicit Replication Tree/Traffic Engineer= ing
   (BIER-TE) paths.  The extensions comprise a foundation fo= r protecting
   the ingress nodes of different types of paths.  Based on = this, the
   ingress protection of a new type of paths can be easily suppor= ted.


            &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =       


The IETF Secretariat


--_000_BY3PR13MB5044EC25F050767FBE354BDBF2989BY3PR13MB5044namp_-- From nobody Mon Nov 15 09:11:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39DEF3A0E7D for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:11:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.95 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.852, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1SX1PXC-ffEP for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C3333A0E90 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:11:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HtG1M0yrSz1ntwm; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:11:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1636996263; bh=KJ/tWz31TxD/U0pcWorn6Ljn4K5IlyExCFQZPwIjHJg=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=Phzpo7smmJD18B8eiSnCkg0RBnK7ZZLRtbDjXvxUB2oo9TJRvJOoctpSteXPgQ2Wy 9a+8JPIfJOUA+6n9NBUZ7zxYDmDWNs1+JqoOtSgZCCzSrzPdkNMZRzzS2tXT1JVuD1 Y05M1Lb9yNZvNv4mGBcA3odgfKEPkSS1N/zogG/g= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.22.111] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4HtG1K68Xbz1ntWY; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:11:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <504ecbc0-d9f1-a3bf-0a30-2e6d93d07227@joelhalpern.com> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 12:10:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 Content-Language: en-US To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" , SPRING WG Cc: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , "Chengli (Cheng Li)" References: <41e3e112-9154-d534-b79e-38970c538923@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:11:13 -0000 Thanks. I had not understood that the point was to specify the "reverse" policy to the node that is being given the "forward" policy. So that the forward node can specify the reverse in the message it sends. That is understandable. And probably in the draft? (I was asking based on the email.) Again, thanks for explaining, Joel On 11/15/2021 11:26 AM, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > Hi Joel, > > The context could be Circuit-Style SR Policy, or even just sending OAM packets on a particular path and looping it back on the exact same path/paths in reverse, by putting both forward and reverse label stacks (with or without any SR Policy at the opposite end). > > Note that I'm not talking about SR Policy POL1 being reverse of POL2. I'm talking about individual Segment Lists (SLs) being reverses of other SLs. > > The meaning of "reverse SL" is simple when both SLs are expressed as adjacencies. But it's currently not well defined when Node SIDs are involved. For example, the reverse of one Node-SID SL may require multiple Adjacency-SID SLs to cover all ECMP paths. > > So, I'm just bringing up this topic. I tend to agree with Cheng that we should sync this with PCE/IDR/SPRING/etc. > > Thanks, > Mike. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 10:53 PM > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; SPRING WG > Cc: Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) ; Chengli (Cheng Li) > Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse > > I am missing something. In what context is it important to say that policy 2 is intended to represent the reverse of policy 1? > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/12/2021 9:09 PM, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: >> Hi SPRING WG, >> >> During the PCE session there was a presentation about signaling per-SL >> (Segment List) reverse paths, see >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#sect >> ion-4.5 >> . >> I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG. >> >> In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in opposite directions, >> something like this: >> >> SR policy POL1 >> >>   Candidate-path CP1 >> >>     SID-List = >> >> SR policy POL2 >> >>   Candidate-path CP1 >> >>     SID-List = >> >> Where and are two segment lists that can be considered >> “opposites” of each other, maybe traversing the same links in reverse, >> or maybe just the same nodes, etc. >> >> However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment lists, it gets more >> complicated: >> >> SR policy POL1 >> >>   Candidate-path CP1 >> >>     SID-List = >> >>     SID-List = >> >> SR policy POL2 >> >>   Candidate-path CP1 >> >>     SID-List = >> >>     SID-List = >> >> Where and are opposites, also and are opposites. >> >> REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multiple reverse SLs >> correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forward SL is >> using Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segments >> to cover multiple ECMP paths in reverse. >> >> REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is a reverse of SL >> 2, but SL 2 is **not** a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not mutually reverse. >> >> REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to every forward SL is >> useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the reverse direction. >> I.e., if there’s just a unidirectional “forward” SR Policy that needs >> to know the return paths for each of its SLs. >> >> Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about reverse SLs. I’m >> requesting the WG to review the proposal and decide if we should >> standardize this. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mike. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> From nobody Mon Nov 15 09:25:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7D03A0EAC for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:25:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ulgVYOhGPCjL for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x530.google.com (mail-ed1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 919643A0EAF for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x530.google.com with SMTP id z10so48777755edc.11 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:25:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=84hcdGScXe/2I3vobwCLFnQno+ajxLQ9PMETLTxXahY=; b=PvJ6RtKkEiLENnmA0OdtNrO31mq7nlqF30O3auC+ojliFNfjlJMxT4aRcm+HkdxfFO WGubuvkojxz/jxksyl4wbvQ0d8/VduwDwjcAYAuYcQg+eNi7+J2bjagr21jIi7TUCywx PKHffBagSSOmFc3oypBSXiwyQbtzh0Leb7xGb845qYfxRN9tmEQI/9hOfCFQBm8D353S BtPFc/4vxio0sphJkQLjwzPAMMrz3pVpZpExT74Cg1ziu7Nub8UalnrHPOAtI7FBQQZ8 KZ//EhjdcyD4Wvt7Am1BKYnG74u6QKQFSB77x1BKuwD8FkEO6Sfyz1D6NDuo1GrtWarH rUWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=84hcdGScXe/2I3vobwCLFnQno+ajxLQ9PMETLTxXahY=; b=hdwv/51PGS4FgV3r3weRdBOnxZReO8JO0kOMKYKhi6ySZWVoAB6j99IGIOC/P3Nx4Z WJ1C1DBuJv9SzUXVL3+CXZ6v/YpCZXyaouL1G0bPZGbNq762AvkLBTCvt7aNBcmwt6h9 +aiNtucvcz1iUXGCklvUzUkxxq9EPOFTopQVITTv9N47KTGydzNPNoo3ySJdJGkFxbUa T84W3J7/Dct+atxq/BVjG/xGpi+VSkLAnPAhYHnpO9aNSif1O3Hcm5+DrlaJQ0Aq8AVD 5ghK7XDEKfA571y/Cr1jXnueWZwv7zKUTd70Zd6xHRUTHILSpc/S1jnN0cj6pwdOqKZJ kkwA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531OS/0Rl+MRIRcjhwgDGYYbSNNVWGX5BxQBm7gbmAQOnBcd7BHW wHUq2WnMAvaNZ13cjNi/xE31Q3hRE9TLWk8QcrE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzt0U7lHcEhRtp32csiBVQW/Q32cMj2KXxmKEahHKYGH7Ezj/216nxyJYWFpcC+MN5MlTL3ijT03hMO9umoxMU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:4394:: with SMTP id o20mr492687edc.342.1636997102483; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:25:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <41e3e112-9154-d534-b79e-38970c538923@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:24:51 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , SPRING WG , "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , "Chengli (Cheng Li)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000caba1805d0d716fb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:25:10 -0000 --000000000000caba1805d0d716fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike, I have a question about the possible use of the reverse SR path association and much appreciate your help understanding its use in OAM. In draft-ietf-spring-bfd we propose a new Non-FEC TLV to specify the SR policy for the reverse direction of a BFD session bootstrapped via LSP ping. Also, we propose that the same Non-FEC TLV can be used to control the path of the LSP Echo Reply sent in response to the LSP Echo Request that includes the Non-FEC TLV. What other use cases for the SR reverse association do you see? Regards, Greg On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 8:26 AM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > Hi Joel, > > The context could be Circuit-Style SR Policy, or even just sending OAM > packets on a particular path and looping it back on the exact same > path/paths in reverse, by putting both forward and reverse label stacks > (with or without any SR Policy at the opposite end). > > Note that I'm not talking about SR Policy POL1 being reverse of POL2. I'm > talking about individual Segment Lists (SLs) being reverses of other SLs. > > The meaning of "reverse SL" is simple when both SLs are expressed as > adjacencies. But it's currently not well defined when Node SIDs are > involved. For example, the reverse of one Node-SID SL may require multipl= e > Adjacency-SID SLs to cover all ECMP paths. > > So, I'm just bringing up this topic. I tend to agree with Cheng that we > should sync this with PCE/IDR/SPRING/etc. > > Thanks, > Mike. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 10:53 PM > To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; SPRING WG < > spring@ietf.org> > Cc: Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) ; Chengli (Cheng Li) < > c.l@huawei.com> > Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse > > I am missing something. In what context is it important to say that > policy 2 is intended to represent the reverse of policy 1? > > Yours, > Joel > > On 11/12/2021 9:09 PM, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > > Hi SPRING WG, > > > > During the PCE session there was a presentation about signaling per-SL > > (Segment List) reverse paths, see > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#sect > > ion-4.5 > > < > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#section= -4.5 > >. > > I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG. > > > > In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in opposite directions, > > something like this: > > > > SR policy POL1 > > > > Candidate-path CP1 > > > > SID-List =3D > > > > SR policy POL2 > > > > Candidate-path CP1 > > > > SID-List =3D > > > > Where and are two segment lists that can be considered > > =E2=80=9Copposites=E2=80=9D of each other, maybe traversing the same li= nks in reverse, > > or maybe just the same nodes, etc. > > > > However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment lists, it gets more > > complicated: > > > > SR policy POL1 > > > > Candidate-path CP1 > > > > SID-List =3D > > > > SID-List =3D > > > > SR policy POL2 > > > > Candidate-path CP1 > > > > SID-List =3D > > > > SID-List =3D > > > > Where and are opposites, also and are opposites= . > > > > REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multiple reverse SLs > > correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forward SL is > > using Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segments > > to cover multiple ECMP paths in reverse. > > > > REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is a reverse of SL > > 2, but SL 2 is **not** a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not mutually reverse. > > > > REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to every forward SL is > > useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the reverse direction. > > I.e., if there=E2=80=99s just a unidirectional =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80= =9D SR Policy that needs > > to know the return paths for each of its SLs. > > > > Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about reverse SLs. I=E2= =80=99m > > requesting the WG to review the proposal and decide if we should > > standardize this. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000caba1805d0d716fb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mike,
I have a question about the possible use of t= he reverse SR path association and much appreciate your help understanding = its use in OAM.
In draft-ietf-spring-bfd=C2=A0we propose a new Non-F= EC TLV to specify the SR policy for the reverse direction of a BFD session = bootstrapped via LSP ping. Also, we propose that the same Non-FEC TLV can b= e used to control the path of the LSP Echo Reply sent in response to the LS= P Echo Request that includes the Non-FEC TLV. What other use cases for the = SR reverse association do you see?

Regards,
<= div>Greg

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 8:26 AM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) &= lt;mkoldych=3D40cisco.com@dma= rc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi Joel,

The context could be Circuit-Style SR Policy, or even just sending OAM pack= ets on a particular path and looping it back on the exact same path/paths i= n reverse, by putting both forward and reverse label stacks (with or withou= t any SR Policy at the opposite end).

Note that I'm not talking about SR Policy POL1 being reverse of POL2. I= 'm talking about individual Segment Lists (SLs) being reverses of other= SLs.

The meaning of "reverse SL" is simple when both SLs are expressed= as adjacencies. But it's currently not well defined when Node SIDs are= involved. For example, the reverse of one Node-SID SL may require multiple= Adjacency-SID SLs to cover all ECMP paths.

So, I'm just bringing up this topic. I tend to agree with Cheng that we= should sync this with PCE/IDR/SPRING/etc.

Thanks,
Mike.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 10:53 PM
To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych@cisco.com>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Cc: Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) <rgandhi@cisco.com>; Chengli (Cheng Li) <c.l@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse

I am missing something.=C2=A0 In what context is it important to say that p= olicy 2 is intended to represent the reverse of policy 1?

Yours,
Joel

On 11/12/2021 9:09 PM, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote:
> Hi SPRING WG,
>
> During the PCE session there was a presentation about signaling per-SL=
> (Segment List) reverse paths, see
> https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#sect
> ion-4.5
> <https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#section-4.5>. > I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG.
>
> In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in opposite directions,=
> something like this:
>
> SR policy POL1 <headend =3D PE1, endpoint =3D PE2>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <ABC>
>
> SR policy POL2 <headend =3D PE2, endpoint =3D PE1>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0SID-List =3D <CBA>
>
> Where <ABC> and <CBA> are two segment lists that can be co= nsidered
> =E2=80=9Copposites=E2=80=9D of each other, maybe traversing the same l= inks in reverse,
> or maybe just the same nodes, etc.
>
> However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment lists, it gets more<= br> > complicated:
>
> SR policy POL1 <headend =3D PE1, endpoint =3D PE2>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <ABC>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <DEF>
>
> SR policy POL2 <headend =3D PE2, endpoint =3D PE1>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <CBA>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D <FED>
>
> Where <ABC> and <CBA> are opposites, also <DEF> and = <FED> are opposites.
>
> REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multiple reverse SLs
> correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forward SL is <= br> > using Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segments=
> to cover multiple ECMP paths in reverse.
>
> REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is a reverse of SL <= br> > 2, but SL 2 is **not** a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not mutually reverse.<= br> >
> REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to every forward SL is=
> useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the reverse direction.<= br> > I.e., if there=E2=80=99s just a unidirectional =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80= =9D SR Policy that needs
> to know the return paths for each of its SLs.
>
> Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about reverse SLs. I=E2= =80=99m
> requesting the WG to review the proposal and decide if we should
> standardize this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:11:52 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: uSID and destination options Thread-Index: AdfaU1XjHtOHXaHzT5Wb+lwAT5/0pA== Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:11:51 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.6.300.5 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2021-11-15T19:02:01Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=ffe16c7e-7e23-40be-8eb5-fd28addfb81a; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=2 msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_enabled: true msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_setdate: 2021-11-15T19:11:50Z msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_method: Standard msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_name: 0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755 msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_siteid: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_actionid: a19cb6c4-de72-4ecf-8d84-68880724365f msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_contentbits: 0 x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e92dbdbb-90f1-440a-2ee3-08d9a86bc80d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BLAPR05MB7473: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6108; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable C-SID authors, Consider an SRv6 packet that contains: * An outer IPv6 header * A Destination Options Header * IPv4 payload The packet does not contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field = in the outer IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID containe= r contains two or more C-SIDs. Where are the destination options processed? The following are possible ans= wers to this question: * At every segment endpoint node * At the SR path egress node Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BL0PR05MB5316DB11861300FA249A3CCCAE989BL0PR05MB5316namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

C-SID authors,=

 

Consider an SRv6 pa= cket that contains:

 

  • An outer IPv6 header
  • A Destination Options Header<= o:p>
  • IPv4 payload

 

The packet does not= contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field  in the outer = IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID container contains two= or more C-SIDs.

 

Where are the desti= nation options processed? The following are possible answers to this questi= on:

 

  • At every segment endpoint node<= /o:p>
  • At the SR path egre= ss node

 

   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;           Ron

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

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Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AdfahRcxVKOaJ14hSsuAU9I2/DcNRg== Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 01:02:58 +0000 Message-ID: <97a70779f92b497faeba0de9592fdd88@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.166.17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 01:03:09 -0000 SGkgUm9uLA0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBteSByZXBseSBpbiBsaW5lLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpUaWFucmFu DQoNCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogUm9uIEJvbmljYSBbbWFpbHRv 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SMTP id w1so81555711edd.10; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:48:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rYZeCHMnjI7RhiBDrhkzWl3STrM/QsVDg5MNPkDadMk=; b=CgJaOscvNVAh0y6gY7OemioqTULu7SHRAXWKCn7r+I02mNomgYib/YcmDpBvD8ABX3 3pt3XCvRrH1jU3vhpDhtBEAxbv6zG9rlafUWH81ocbNJT+xaLuU2xFT7+xYwhGZrFzQb hgCebE+sdmJuf+j5HXWX5Oxi55ANFk21T7NOAVl6UTqSaC2pbGq7L38Ue4x84Pnpghjx ysLzvo85qR2uvOh8c5+E5nupwn6c+EaDX9cTGOYwV/82OjBkmNagDkTnNXjHwhAty1o5 25XHhza32L+KnR2znVKXDtYSlY/SIuJ8Nq4z2lo0y0hrDE3EmC4acoWUSHXwuBgKyPZe UHgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rYZeCHMnjI7RhiBDrhkzWl3STrM/QsVDg5MNPkDadMk=; b=zF2TxpP30qFkQW6CspKTLcp5GZybqUL875IUcM64QM5ozPSJdSQHMO9q7judw7oDOT Mc17ZejdWvTKa/6b5wT5EwSohgTFOjn/MHR6dkD+enusun8AYMvUtkd3LCgiovwoVjqu 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Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 03:48:22 -0000 --0000000000007088f305d0dfcb85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tianran, as I imagine it, the deployment of SRH in a production network, i.e., a network with legacy nodes, will require upgrading SW and firmware. If that is the case, the decision of supporting in the upgrades only the SRH but not other IPv6 EHs, e.g., Destination and HbH, seems unreasonable to me and does not rise to the level that justifies the duplication of ways to support the Alternate Marking method in IPv6 networks. Regards, Greg On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 5:03 PM Tianran Zhou wrote= : > Hi Ron, > Please see my reply in line. > > Thanks, > Tianran > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ron Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5= 6:20 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou ; Tom H= erbert < > tom@herbertland.com> > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.o= rg; ipv6@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-= mark > > Folks, > > The SRH TLV for Alternate Marking isn't needed because its meaning is > identical to the AltMark Option when it appears in a Destination Options > Header that precedes the SRH. > > Arguments regarding the HBH are orthogonal to this issue. The HBH is > processed at every node along a packet's deliver path, while the > Destination Options header that precedes the SRH is processed " by the > first destination that appears in the IPv6 Destination Address field plus > subsequent destinations listed in the Routing header. > > ZTR> This is clear to me. But this is not my point to propose the SRH TLV > method. > > Arguments regarding whether a complete IPv6 implementation must support > the Destination Options header have already been settled by RFC 8200. > > ZTR> I am sorry, I do not understand what do you mean hear. Could you > please give more hint? > > Arguments about whether it is easier to parse two smaller extension > headers or one larger extension headers are not appropriate in the IETF, > because they are platform dependent. > > ZTR> My point is not about parsing two smaller EH vs. one larger EH. My > point is the deployment when a network that support SRH but not support > other EHs. > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring On Behalf Of Tianran Zhou > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 3:56 AM > To: Tom Herbert > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.or= g > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > > Hi Tom, > > Firstly, the proposed solution follows the same logic as RFC8200, as in > your text. So I do not see any problem. We just find another away to > "ignore the options". > " RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to process HBH options an= d > acknowledged that this is reality. From an application perspective, if th= e > TLVs can't be processed in a "fast path" it is best to ignore the options= ." > > Secondly, I agree with the complexity of processing TLV. But we have > already implemented the function with line rate. So the "core problem" fr= om > my perspective is how to deploy it. > > We are always on the way to performance optimization. I've read your > draft, and your solution is very interesting. > > Best, > Tianran > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 1:05 AM > To: Tianran Zhou > Cc: Joel M. Halpern ; > draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 10:48 PM Tianran Zhou > wrote: > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > Please see my reply below. > > > > Best, > > Tianran > > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8811=E6=97= =A5 2:32 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Joel M. Halpern ; > > draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-al= t-mark > > > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:41 PM Tianran Zhou > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Joel, > > > > > > I do not need to assume a device that support SRH will support this > new TLV. > > > We only assume the device that do not support this new TLV can ignore > and bypass the packet, not to drop. > > > I see text from RFC8754 section 2.1. > > > " all TLVs are ignored unless local configuration indicates otherwise= " > > > " Thus, TLV and HMAC support is optional for any implementation " > > > " Type Length Value (TLV) entries contain OPTIONAL information that m= ay > > > be used by the node identified in the Destination Address (DA) of > the > > > packet. " > > > " The Length field of the TLV is used to skip the TLV while inspectin= g > > > the SRH in case the node doesn't support or recognize the Type. " > > > > > > My understanding on SRH can support my assumption. > > > > Tianran, > > > > RFC8200 allows intermediate nodes to ignore TLVs in HBH options, and I > did propose allowing intermediate destinations to ignore destination > options before the routing header in draft-herbert-ipv6-update-opts. > > > > ZTR> It is true, but this is another story. RFC8200 is new, while > RFC2460 has been widely deployed. The industry need time to evolve. I > talked about the reality. The new proposal is motivated by the real > deployment. > > > > But allowing nodes to ignore TLVs only mitigates the problems of packet > loss in the presence of TLVs; the obvious purpose of defining a new TLV i= s > that it _will_ be processed, lest the host sender is just wasting cycles > and bandwidth sending bits no one looks at. If all implementations of SRH > ignore TLVs then defining the TLV is pointless (AFAIK only Linux and mayb= e > VPP software implementations support SRH TLVs). For the purposes of > actually processing a TLV, like alt mark, I still don't see any advantage > to putting this in SRH as opposed to Destination options or HBH options. > > > > ZTR> We consider the incremental deployment case, or the deployment wit= h > multi-vendors. That means the supportive node could process SRH TLV well, > while the non-supportive node could still transit. This is still valuable > for operators to narrow down the scope when packet loss happens. This cou= ld > also encourage the new tech development and deployment. I see this is ver= y > useful. > > Tianran, > > I think you're dancing around the core problem. Hardware implementations > didn't support Hop-by-Hop options because they contain TLVs which are > considered to be hard to process in a high performance datapath hardware > pipeline. RFC2460 did mandate that all intermediate nodes need to process > the HBH options which left hardware vendors with three choices: 1) proces= s > them in a software slow path and adhere to > RFC2460 2) ignore them altogether and violate RFC2460 3) drop the packet > which technically adheres to RFC2460, but obviously kills any utility of > feature. RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to process HBH > options and acknowledged that this is reality. From an application > perspective, if the TLVs can't be processed in a "fast path" it is best t= o > ignore the options. > > So the underlying problem is in fact the complexity of processing TLVs in > hardware datapath. Just replicating the same TLV mechanism in more > protocols like SRH does nothing to help solve the problem. Until this is > solved I don't believe we'll ever see TLVs being productively used in L3 = (I > suppose this might the anticipated industry evolution to which you > referred). On the other hand if the problem is solved and a deployable an > economical solution is presented that hardware vendors would adopt, then > the problem would be solved for a whole class of use case (i.e. the same > basic TLV construct is used in HBH, DestOpts, SRH, TCP options, IP option= s, > UDP options, etc.). > > If you're interested, I will be outlining the solution to this problem > that we're working on in IPv6/v6ops meeting tomorrow. > > Tom > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > Best, > > > Tianran > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. > > > Halpern > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:38 AM > > > To: Tianran Zhou > > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > > > (Again, speaking as participant.) > > > You seem to be assuming that devices (hard or soft) that support SRH > will support this new TLV. It is not obvious that they will support any > SRH TLVs. And if they do, they clearly will not support a not yet define= d > TLV. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Joel > > > > > > On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote: > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > > > All you arguments are correct. > > > > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, DoH), > there is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. > > > > > > > > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices. > > > > These devices may 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is the > current situation about most chip vendors. > > > > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near future. > > > > > > > > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? > > > > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet drop= . > > > > > > > > This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Tianran > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM > > > > To: Joel M. Halpern > > > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a different > way. > > > >> And this is as a participant, not as co-chair. > > > >> Assumptions as I understand them: > > > >> > > > >> 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and DoH cases > > > >> 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed to also > > > >> support the 6man altMark > > > >> > > > >> If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that adding the > > > >> SRH TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without adding any > capability. > > > >> This strikes me as a bad trade. > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage that > they work with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only work > in the narrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that might b= e > defined. > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > >> > > > >> Yours, > > > >> Joel > > > >> > > > >> On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote: > > > >>> Hi Greg, > > > >>> > > > >>> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment should still > > > >>> conform to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN. > > > >>> > > > >>> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in > draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> > > > >>> Giuseppe > > > >>> > > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > > > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM > > > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > > >>> ipv6@ietf.org > > > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > > > >>> > > > >>> thank you for the clarification. > > > >>> > > > >>> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the end node of > > > >>> a segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in RFC 8200: > > > >>> > > > >>> note 3: for options to be processed only by the final > destination of > > > >>> the packet. > > > >>> > > > >>> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final conclusion o= f > it. > > > >>> > > > >>> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the management > > > >>> plane to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segment end-points > > > >>> and keep it disabled on transit nodes. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> > > > >>> Greg > > > >>> > > > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > > >>> > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi Greg, > > > >>> > > > >>> The use of HbH EH does not fit well in the case of SRH. > Indeed, with > > > >>> the AltMark HbH Option, it is possible to monitor every > router on > > > >>> the path with feature enabled, so it potentially allows the > > > >>> measurement to every nodes in the path and not only to the > nodes > > > >>> that are identities in the SR path. > > > >>> > > > >>> While, with the Destination Option preceding a Routing > Header, it is > > > >>> possible to apply the measurement to every destination node > in the > > > >>> route list. This means that, whenthe AltMark Destination > Option > > > >>> precedes the SRH, it allows the measurement for all the node= s > that > > > >>> are identities in the SR path. > > > >>> > > > >>> The solution with SRH TLV is equivalent to DOH + SRH, but it > can be > > > >>> an optimized solution for SRH since it leverages the SRH TLV > > > >>> capability, without adding an additional EH that can be a > problem in > > > >>> some cases. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> > > > >>> Giuseppe > > > >>> > > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > > >>> > > > > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 2:57 PM > > > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola > > >>> > > > > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > > >>> ; > spring@ietf.org > > > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > > > > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi Giuseppe, > > > >>> > > > >>> thank you for the detailed explanation of what the authors > consider > > > >>> as the problem. In the presentation, you've mentioned that > the new > > > >>> AltMark SRH TLV allows for better control of which nodes > along an SR > > > >>> Policy participate in the measurement. I imagine that the Hb= H > IPv6 > > > >>> extension header that includes the AltMark TLV can be used t= o > > > >>> achieve the same result if only SR nodes are enabled for the > AltMark > > > >>> processing. What do you think of using the HbH EH? Am I > missing > > > >>> something? > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> > > > >>> Greg > > > >>> > > > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > > >>> giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi Greg, > > > >>> > > > >>> Thank you for your comment. > > > >>> > > > >>> It is very good to have your support on this draft. > > > >>> > > > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark defines the AltMark DOH. In > case of > > > >>> SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to implement the measurement for > every > > > >>> node that is an identity in the SR path. > > > >>> > > > >>> But, the approach with DOH + SRH requires two extension > headers and > > > >>> this can have operational implications. > > > >>> > > > >>> The goal of this draft is to find an optimized solution that > best > > > >>> suits for SRH. Therefore we propose to use the SRH TLV. If > accepted, > > > >>> this document would update draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark onl= y > for SRv6: > > > >>> > > > >>> - in case of SRH there would be a single way to apply AltMar= k > > > >>> through SRH TLV, > > > >>> > > > >>> - while for all the other cases with IPv6 data plane the use > of the > > > >>> HbH and DOH is the only choice to carry AltMark data fields. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> > > > >>> Giuseppe > > > >>> > > > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky > > >>> > > > > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021 9:01 PM > > > >>> *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org > > > >>> ; > spring@ietf.org > > > >>> ; ipv6@ietf.org > > > > >>> *Subject:* A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > >>> > > > >>> Dear Authors et al. > > > >>> > > > >>> thank you for this document. I am supporting and following > the work > > > >>> on the Alternate Marking method in various IETF WGs. What do > you see > > > >>> as the benefits of defining a new SRH TLV for the Alternate > Marking > > > >>> method compared to solutions defined for IPv6 in > > > >>> draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > > > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6= man-ipv6-alt-mark/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Rer99s0DO7Ys6kR2kNbYfO5WFUh7DlH4ouzWfIp_= chK7mPTLWcpo221rpmep31F9$ > >? > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> > > > >>> Greg > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> -- > > > >>> -- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org > > > >>> Administrative > > > >>> Requests: > > > >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf > > > >>> o/ipv6__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Rer99s0DO7Ys6kR2kNbYfO5WFUh7DlH4ouzWfIp_c > > > >>> hK7mPTLWcpo221rprIfvSmZ$ > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> -- > > > >>> -- > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> -- > > > >> - IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org > > > >> Administrative > > > >> Requests: > > > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo > > > >> /ipv6__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Rer99s0DO7Ys6kR2kNbYfO5WFUh7DlH4ouzWfIp_chK > > > >> 7mPTLWcpo221rprIfvSmZ$ > > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> -- > > > >> - > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > -- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Administrative > > > > Requests: > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ > > > > ipv6__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Rer99s0DO7Ys6kR2kNbYfO5WFUh7DlH4ouzWfIp_chK7m > > > > PTLWcpo221rprIfvSmZ$ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sp > > > ring__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Rer99s0DO7Ys6kR2kNbYfO5WFUh7DlH4ouzWfIp_chK7mPT > > > LWcpo221rpu4mP70S$ > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative > > > Requests: > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ip > > > v6__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Rer99s0DO7Ys6kR2kNbYfO5WFUh7DlH4ouzWfIp_chK7mPTLW > > > cpo221rprIfvSmZ$ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring_= _;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Rer99s0DO7Ys6kR2kNbYfO5WFUh7DlH4ouzWfIp_chK7mPTLWcpo221rpu4= mP70S$ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --0000000000007088f305d0dfcb85 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tianran,
as I imagine it, the deployment of SRH in = a production network, i.e., a network with legacy nodes, will require upgra= ding SW and firmware. If that is the case, the decision of supporting in th= e upgrades only the SRH but not other IPv6 EHs, e.g., Destination and HbH, = seems unreasonable to me and does not rise to the level that justifies the = duplication of ways to support the Alternate Marking method in IPv6 network= s.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 15, 20= 21 at 5:03 PM Tianran Zhou <zh= outianran@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi Ron,
Please see my reply in line.

Thanks,
Tianran

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ron Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5 6= :20
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; Tom Herbert = <tom@herbertlan= d.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-ma= rk

Folks,

The SRH TLV for Alternate Marking isn't needed because its meaning is i= dentical to the AltMark Option when it appears in a Destination Options Hea= der that precedes the SRH.

Arguments regarding the HBH are orthogonal to this issue. The HBH is proces= sed at every node along a packet's deliver path, while the Destination = Options header that precedes the SRH is processed " by the first desti= nation that appears in the IPv6 Destination Address field plus subsequent d= estinations listed in the Routing header.

ZTR> This is clear to me. But this is not my point to propose the SRH TL= V method.

Arguments regarding whether a complete IPv6 implementation must support the= Destination Options header have already been settled by RFC 8200.

ZTR> I am sorry, I do not understand what do you mean hear. Could you pl= ease give more hint?

Arguments about whether it is easier to parse two smaller extension headers= or one larger extension headers are not appropriate in the IETF, because t= hey are platform dependent.

ZTR> My point is not about parsing two smaller EH vs. one larger EH. My = point is the deployment when a network that support SRH but not support oth= er EHs.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron







Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tianran Zhou
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 3:56 AM
To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Hi Tom,

Firstly, the proposed solution follows the same logic as RFC8200, as in you= r text. So I do not see any problem. We just find another away to "ign= ore the options".
" RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to process HBH options= and acknowledged that this is reality. From an application perspective, if= the TLVs can't be processed in a "fast path" it is best to i= gnore the options."

Secondly, I agree with the complexity of processing TLV. But we have alread= y implemented the function with line rate. So the "core problem" = from my perspective is how to deploy it.

We are always on the way to performance optimization. I've read your dr= aft, and your solution is very interesting.

Best,
Tianran

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com]
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 1:05 AM
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
Cc: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org<= /a>; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark

On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 10:48 PM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote: >
> Hi Tom,
>
> Please see my reply below.
>
> Best,
> Tianran
>
> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8811=E6=97= =A5 2:32
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>;
> draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-a= lt-mark
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:41 PM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote:=
> >
> > Hi Joel,
> >
> > I do not need to assume a device that support SRH will support th= is new TLV.
> > We only assume the device that do not support this new TLV can ig= nore and bypass the packet, not to drop.
> > I see text from RFC8754 section 2.1.
> > " all TLVs are ignored unless local configuration indicates = otherwise "
> > " Thus, TLV and HMAC support=C2=A0 is optional for any imple= mentation "
> > " Type Length Value (TLV) entries contain OPTIONAL informati= on that may
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be used by the node identified in the Destination Ad= dress (DA) of the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet. "
> > " The Length field of the TLV is used to skip the TLV while = inspecting
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the SRH in case the node doesn't support or reco= gnize the Type. "
> >
> > My understanding on SRH can support my assumption.
>
> Tianran,
>
> RFC8200 allows intermediate nodes to ignore TLVs in HBH options, and I= did propose allowing intermediate destinations to ignore destination optio= ns before the routing header in draft-herbert-ipv6-update-opts.
>
> ZTR> It is true, but this is another story. RFC8200 is new, while R= FC2460 has been widely deployed. The industry need time to evolve. I talked= about the reality. The new proposal is motivated by the real deployment. >
> But allowing nodes to ignore TLVs only mitigates the problems of packe= t loss in the presence of TLVs; the obvious purpose of defining a new TLV i= s that it _will_ be processed, lest the host sender is just wasting cycles = and bandwidth sending bits no one looks at. If all implementations of SRH i= gnore TLVs then defining the TLV is pointless (AFAIK only Linux and maybe V= PP software implementations support SRH TLVs). For the purposes of actually= processing a TLV, like alt mark, I still don't see any advantage to pu= tting this in SRH as opposed to Destination options or HBH options.
>
> ZTR> We consider the incremental deployment case, or the deployment= with multi-vendors. That means the supportive node could process SRH TLV w= ell, while the non-supportive node could still transit. This is still valua= ble for operators to narrow down the scope when packet loss happens. This c= ould also encourage the new tech development and deployment. I see this is = very useful.

Tianran,

I think you're dancing around the core problem. Hardware implementation= s didn't support Hop-by-Hop options because they contain TLVs which are= considered to be hard to process in a high performance datapath hardware p= ipeline. RFC2460 did mandate that all intermediate nodes need to process th= e HBH options which left hardware vendors with three choices: 1) process th= em in a software slow path and adhere to
RFC2460 2) ignore them altogether and violate RFC2460 3) drop the packet wh= ich technically adheres to RFC2460, but obviously kills any utility of feat= ure. RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to process HBH options a= nd acknowledged that this is reality. From an application perspective, if t= he TLVs can't be processed in a "fast path" it is best to ign= ore the options.

So the underlying problem is in fact the complexity of processing TLVs in h= ardware datapath. Just replicating the same TLV mechanism in more protocols= like SRH does nothing to help solve the problem. Until this is solved I do= n't believe we'll ever see TLVs being productively used in L3 (I su= ppose this might the anticipated industry evolution to which you referred).= On the other hand if the problem is solved and a deployable an economical = solution is presented that hardware vendors would adopt, then the problem w= ould be solved for a whole class of use case (i.e. the same basic TLV const= ruct is used in HBH, DestOpts, SRH, TCP options, IP options, UDP options, e= tc.).

If you're interested, I will be outlining the solution to this problem = that we're working on in IPv6/v6ops meeting tomorrow.

Tom

>
> Tom
>
> >
> > Best,
> > Tianran
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M.
> > Halpern
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:38 AM
> > To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;
> > ipv6@ietf.org<= /a>
> > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mar= k
> >
> > (Again, speaking as=C2=A0 participant.)
> > You seem to be assuming that devices (hard or soft) that support = SRH will support this new TLV.=C2=A0 It is not obvious that they will suppo= rt any SRH TLVs.=C2=A0 And if they do, they clearly will not support a not = yet defined TLV.
> >
> > Yours,
> > Joel
> >
> > On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote:
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > All you arguments are correct.
> > > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH= , DoH), there is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution.
> > >
> > > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive de= vices.
> > > These devices may 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This = is the current situation about most chip vendors.
> > > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near = future.
> > >
> > > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network?
> > > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without pack= et drop.
> > >
> > > This is why SRH TLV based spring-srv6-alt-mark is proposed.<= br> > > >
> > > Best,
> > > Tianran
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:41 PM
> > > To: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org;
> > > ipv6@ietf= .org
> > > Subject: Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com&g= t; wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Let me try phrasing the question about the SRH TLV in a = different way.
> > >> And this is as a participant, not as co-chair.
> > >> Assumptions as I understand them:
> > >>
> > >> 1) The 6man draft requires support of both the HbH and D= oH cases
> > >> 2) Any node supporting the SRH altMarking can be assumed= to also
> > >> support the 6man altMark
> > >>
> > >> If assumption 2 is accurate, then it seems to me that ad= ding the
> > >> SRH TLV adds complexity to save a few bits without addin= g any capability.
> > >> This strikes me as a bad trade.
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Also, destination and hop-by-hop options have the advantage = that they work with any other extension header or protocol. SRH TLVs only w= ork in the narrow use case of SRv6 and don't help router headers that m= ight be defined.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Yours,
> > >> Joel
> > >>
> > >> On 11/8/2021 2:28 PM, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote:
> > >>> Hi Greg,
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, with DOH + SRH, the end node of a segment shoul= d still
> > >>> conform to RFC8200, based on the discussion in 6MAN.=
> > >>>
> > >>> The proposal to use HBH is also mentioned in draft-i= etf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>>
> > >>> Giuseppe
> > >>>
> > >>> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> > >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 6:17 PM
> > >>> *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com&= gt;
> > >>> *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; <= a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org; > > >>> i= pv6@ietf.org
> > >>> *Subject:* Re: A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-a= lt-mark
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Giuseppe,
> > >>>
> > >>> thank you for the clarification.
> > >>>
> > >>> I was considering the DOH+SDH but am not sure if the= end node of
> > >>> a segment conforms to the note attributed to DOH in = RFC 8200:
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 note 3: for options to be proces= sed only by the final destination of
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the packet.
> > >>>
> > >>> I recall the discussion in 6man WG but not the final= conclusion of it.
> > >>>
> > >>> My proposal to use HbH EH included the use of the ma= nagement
> > >>> plane to explicitly enable AltMarking only on segmen= t end-points
> > >>> and keep it disabled on transit nodes.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>>
> > >>> Greg
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:50 AM Giuseppe Fioccola > > >>> <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com <mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@huaw= ei.com>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Greg,
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The use of HbH EH does not fit w= ell in the case of SRH. Indeed, with
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the AltMark HbH Option, it is po= ssible to monitor every router on
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the path with feature enabled, s= o it potentially allows the
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 measurement to every nodes in th= e path and not only to the nodes
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that are identities in the SR pa= th.
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 While, with the Destination Opti= on preceding a Routing Header, it is
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 possible to apply the measuremen= t to every destination node in the
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 route list. This means that, whe= nthe AltMark Destination Option
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 precedes the SRH, it allows the = measurement for all the nodes that
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are identities in the SR path. > > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The solution with SRH TLV is equ= ivalent to DOH + SRH, but it can be
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an optimized solution for SRH si= nce it leverages the SRH TLV
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 capability, without adding an ad= ditional EH that can be a problem in
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 some cases.
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Giuseppe
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021= 2:57 PM
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To:* Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioc= cola@huawei.com
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-= mark@ietf.org
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:draft-fz-spring-srv6= -alt-mark@ietf.org>; spring@ietf.org
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: A question for dr= aft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Giuseppe,
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 thank you for the detailed expla= nation of what the authors consider
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as the problem. In the presentat= ion, you've mentioned that the new
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AltMark SRH TLV allows for bette= r control of which nodes along an SR
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Policy participate in the measur= ement. I imagine that the HbH IPv6
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 extension header that includes t= he AltMark TLV can be used to
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 achieve the same result if only = SR nodes are enabled for the AltMark
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 processing. What do you think of= using the HbH EH? Am I missing
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 something?
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:13 AM G= iuseppe Fioccola
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com <= mailto:gi= useppe.fioccola@huawei.com>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Greg,
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you for your comment.
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is very good to have your sup= port on this draft.
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark de= fines the AltMark DOH. In case of
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SRH, DOH + SRH can be used to im= plement the measurement for every
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 node that is an identity in the = SR path.
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 But, the approach with DOH + SRH= requires two extension headers and
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this can have operational implic= ations.
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The goal of this draft is to fin= d an optimized solution that best
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 suits for SRH. Therefore we prop= ose to use the SRH TLV. If accepted,
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this document would update draft= -ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark only for SRv6:
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - in case of SRH there would be = a single way to apply AltMark
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 through SRH TLV,
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - while for all the other cases = with IPv6 data plane the use of the
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 HbH and DOH is the only choice t= o carry AltMark data fields.
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Giuseppe
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Sent:* Sunday, November 7, 2021= 9:01 PM
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To:* draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-= mark@ietf.org
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:draft-fz-spring-srv6= -alt-mark@ietf.org>; spring@ietf.org
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subject:* A question for draft-= fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dear Authors et al.
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 thank you for this document. I a= m supporting and following the work
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the Alternate Marking method = in various IETF WGs. What do you see
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as the benefits of defining a ne= w SRH TLV for the Alternate Marking
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 method compared to solutions def= ined for IPv6 in
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark > > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark/__;!!NEt6yMaO-= gk!Rer99s0DO7Ys6kR2kNbYfO5WFUh7DlH4ouzWfIp_chK7mPTLWcpo221rpmep31F9$ &g= t;?
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,
> > >>>
> > >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----------------------------------------------------= ------------
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auth=pass smtp.auth=C82A168 smtp.mailfrom=andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: liquidtelecom.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM7PR03MB645115F8487EECBD901D93D1EE999AM7PR03MB6451eurp_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] uSID and destination options X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 06:58:30 -0000 --_000_AM7PR03MB645115F8487EECBD901D93D1EE999AM7PR03MB6451eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am curious about this as well - since the drafts are silent on it, and th= is does have a material impact on destination option processing, which if n= ot clarified could lead to some interesting inter-op issues. Thanks Andrew From: spring On Behalf Of Ron Bonica Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:12 PM To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options C-SID authors, Consider an SRv6 packet that contains: * An outer IPv6 header * A Destination Options Header * IPv4 payload The packet does not contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field = in the outer IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID containe= r contains two or more C-SIDs. Where are the destination options processed? The following are possible ans= wers to this question: * At every segment endpoint node * At the SR path egress node Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_AM7PR03MB645115F8487EECBD901D93D1EE999AM7PR03MB6451eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am curious about this as well – since the dr= afts are silent on it, and this does have a material impact on destination = option processing, which if not clarified could lead to some interesting in= ter-op issues.

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Ron Bonica
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:12 PM
To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options

 

C-SID authors,=

 

Consider an SRv6 pa= cket that contains:

 

  • An outer IPv6 header
  • A Destination Options Header<= o:p>
  • IPv4 payload

 

The packet does not= contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field  in the outer = IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID container contains two= or more C-SIDs.

 

Where are the desti= nation options processed? The following are possible answers to this questi= on:

 

  • At every segment endpoint node<= /o:p>
  • At the SR path egre= ss node

 

   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;           Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

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00df588e-e56f-45e3-f06a-08d9a905601e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Nov 2021 13:31:20.0593 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: N80rQslY1lonD72kpiVOmgJ60rMf5Wk/6JYMWxdEy58WZI4MpzAnN6UNtSbnegxMGy5vX4fSg+2iGOYjEMT0mw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL1PR11MB5287 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xbe-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] uSID and destination options X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 13:31:47 -0000 --_000_BL1PR11MB536662873160922E92C59A64C8999BL1PR11MB5366namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, my read of section 4.1.1 of the draft is the dest opt in your examp= le packet would be processed at every segment endpoint. Darren ________________________________ From: spring on behalf of Ron Bonica Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:12 PM To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options C-SID authors, Consider an SRv6 packet that contains: * An outer IPv6 header * A Destination Options Header * IPv4 payload The packet does not contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field = in the outer IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID containe= r contains two or more C-SIDs. Where are the destination options processed? The following are possible ans= wers to this question: * At every segment endpoint node * At the SR path egress node Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BL1PR11MB536662873160922E92C59A64C8999BL1PR11MB5366namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ron, my read of section 4.1.1 of the draft is the dest = opt in your example packet would be processed at every segment endpoint.

Darren
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ron Bonica &= lt;rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:12 PM
To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options
 

C-SID authors,

 

Consider an SRv6 packet that contains:

 

  • An outer IPv6 header
  • A Destination Options Header
    • IPv4 payload

 

The packet does not contain an SRH. Howeve= r, the Destination Address field  in the outer IPv6 header contains a = C-SID container and the C-SID container contains two or more C-SIDs.=

 

Where are the destination options processe= d? The following are possible answers to this question:

 

  • At every segment endpoint node
    • =
  • At the SR path egress node

    •  

           =             &nb= sp;            =              &n= bsp;       Ron

     


    Juniper Busine= ss Use Only

--_000_BL1PR11MB536662873160922E92C59A64C8999BL1PR11MB5366namp_-- From nobody Tue Nov 16 06:25:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DD873A00E1; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 06:24:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=steffann.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3OIZRcxt9wjm; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 06:24:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sintact.nl (mail.sintact.nl [IPv6:2a00:8642:1000:1::22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6130A3A00E4; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 06:24:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 803644A; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:24:49 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=steffann.nl; h= x-mailer:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:date :date:in-reply-to:from:from:subject:subject:mime-version :content-type:content-type:received:received; s=mail; t= 1637072687; bh=eUlZ0ZXBWZUr0pE8HYOrL5fT9/XLQjHcOgDZ4SGxnAI=; b=Y B2huVNbCu9PqADmJ0R02/F+wpho+frwi9f9yMWGHOqrE6YDMCtoRWa5M+YWHgLSn qhAN+pWTwtfACKStDft9fPIXrtNCAf3Iat+nKk9KbWqw3K5SW/oT1nb4TrLRMOyj 9Mkl/JbJ80ZlQBJR+ZlUhBP4xv/4CP5dtjIdXwWEyY= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.sintact.nl Received: from mail.sintact.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.sintact.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ULoEqFD_qDbB; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:24:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2001:9e0:8804:7701:2003:361b:a7c0:1a4a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 46A0D3C; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:24:47 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.20.0.1.32\)) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett From: Sander Steffann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:24:46 +0100 Cc: Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6006AC4A-F0B5-47AC-B911-DB31678B9A45@steffann.nl> References: To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.20.0.1.32) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] uSID and destination options X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:24:59 -0000 Hi, > Hi Ron, my read of section 4.1.1 of the draft is the dest opt in your = example packet would be processed at every segment endpoint. 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BL0PR05MB5314.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:6e::30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4713.14; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:14:04 +0000 Received: from BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e859:c161:7157:562c]) by BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e859:c161:7157:562c%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4713.019; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:14:04 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: uSID and destination options Thread-Index: AdfaU1XjHtOHXaHzT5Wb+lwAT5/0pAAmpCoCAAl1YHA= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:14:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.6.300.5 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; 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definitions=main-2111160087 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] uSID and destination options X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:14:15 -0000 --_000_BL0PR05MB531667920A48476824DBC69DAE999BL0PR05MB5316namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Darren, That's my reading, too. But this leads us to additional questions: * How do we encode destination options that need to be processed at the= SR Path egress node only? * How do we encode the Fragment Option? * How do we encode the ESP option? In these cases, do we need an SRH to indicate that the extension headers th= at follow it are to be processed by the SR path egress node only? Would tha= t SRH carry any routing information at all? = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:31 AM To: Ron Bonica ; spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: Re: uSID and destination options [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Ron, my read of section 4.1.1 of the draft is the dest opt in your examp= le packet would be processed at every segment endpoint. Darren ________________________________ From: spring > on b= ehalf of Ron Bonica > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:12 PM To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options C-SID authors, Consider an SRv6 packet that contains: * An outer IPv6 header * A Destination Options Header * IPv4 payload The packet does not contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field = in the outer IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID containe= r contains two or more C-SIDs. Where are the destination options processed? The following are possible ans= wers to this question: * At every segment endpoint node * At the SR path egress node Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BL0PR05MB531667920A48476824DBC69DAE999BL0PR05MB5316namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Darren,

 

That’s my rea= ding, too. But this leads us to additional questions:

  • How do we encode destination options that need to be= processed at the SR Path egress node only?
  • How do we encode the Fragment Option?
    • <= li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3">How do we encode the ESP option?

In these cases, do = we need an SRH to indicate that the extension headers that follow it are to= be processed by the SR path egress node only? Would that SRH carry any rou= ting information at all?

 

   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         Ron=

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) <ddukes=3D40ci= sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:31 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; spring@ietf.org; 6man@ie= tf.org
Subject: Re: uSID and destination options

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi Ron, my read of section 4.1.1 of the draft is the= dest opt in your example packet would be processed at every segment endpoi= nt.

 

Darren

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ron Bonica <= rbonica=3D40junip= er.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:12 PM
To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options

 

C-SID authors,

 <= /o:p>

Consider an SRv6 pa= cket that contains:

 <= /o:p>

  • An outer IPv6 header
  • A Destination Options Header
  • IPv4 payload

 <= /o:p>

The packet does not= contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field  in the outer = IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID container contains two= or more C-SIDs.

 <= /o:p>

Where are the desti= nation options processed? The following are possible answers to this questi= on:

 <= /o:p>

  • At every segment endpoint node=
  • At the SR path egress node

 <= /o:p>

   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;           Ron

 <= /o:p>

 

Juniper Business Use Only

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Tue, 16 Nov 2021 20:34:13 +0000 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 20:33:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Boris Hassanov To: "Mike Koldychev (mkoldych)" , Greg Mirsky Cc: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , SPRING WG , "Chengli (Cheng Li)" Message-ID: <24553242.745451.1637094836755@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <41e3e112-9154-d534-b79e-38970c538923@joelhalpern.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_745450_2022866187.1637094836753" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19306 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 20:34:21 -0000 ------=_Part_745450_2022866187.1637094836753 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike and all, IMO, one of possible use cases of "reverse SL" could be a case of centraliz= ed control plane where controller (PCE) due to some input constrains/policy= should take in account the calculation and usage of reverse SLs (paths) fo= r some specific primary=C2=A0 SLs. For example when we have to match primar= y and reverse SLs due to some operations requirements.So I support Mike pro= posal. I think it can be mentioned in both places:=C2=A0draft-filsfils-spri= ng-sr-policy-considerations and SR Policy architecture draft. Thank you. SY,Boris On Monday, November 15, 2021, 08:25:26 PM GMT+3, Greg Mirsky wrote: =20 =20 Hi Mike,I have a question about the possible use of the reverse SR path as= sociation and much appreciate your help understanding its use in OAM.In dra= ft-ietf-spring-bfd=C2=A0we propose a new Non-FEC TLV to specify the SR poli= cy for the reverse direction of a BFD session bootstrapped via LSP ping. Al= so, we propose that the same Non-FEC TLV can be used to control the path of= the LSP Echo Reply sent in response to the LSP Echo Request that includes = the Non-FEC TLV. What other use cases for the SR reverse association do you= see? Regards,Greg On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 8:26 AM Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: Hi Joel, The context could be Circuit-Style SR Policy, or even just sending OAM pack= ets on a particular path and looping it back on the exact same path/paths i= n reverse, by putting both forward and reverse label stacks (with or withou= t any SR Policy at the opposite end). Note that I'm not talking about SR Policy POL1 being reverse of POL2. I'm t= alking about individual Segment Lists (SLs) being reverses of other SLs. The meaning of "reverse SL" is simple when both SLs are expressed as adjace= ncies. But it's currently not well defined when Node SIDs are involved. For= example, the reverse of one Node-SID SL may require multiple Adjacency-SID= SLs to cover all ECMP paths. So, I'm just bringing up this topic. I tend to agree with Cheng that we sho= uld sync this with PCE/IDR/SPRING/etc. Thanks, Mike. -----Original Message----- From: Joel M. Halpern =20 Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 10:53 PM To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) ; SPRING WG Cc: Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) ; Chengli (Cheng Li) Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse I am missing something.=C2=A0 In what context is it important to say that p= olicy 2 is intended to represent the reverse of policy 1? Yours, Joel On 11/12/2021 9:09 PM, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote: > Hi SPRING WG, >=20 > During the PCE session there was a presentation about signaling per-SL=20 > (Segment List) reverse paths, see > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#sect > ion-4.5=20 > . > I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG. >=20 > In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in opposite directions,=20 > something like this: >=20 > SR policy POL1 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D >=20 > SR policy POL2 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0SID-List =3D >=20 > Where and are two segment lists that can be considered=20 > =E2=80=9Copposites=E2=80=9D of each other, maybe traversing the same link= s in reverse,=20 > or maybe just the same nodes, etc. >=20 > However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment lists, it gets more > complicated: >=20 > SR policy POL1 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D >=20 > SR policy POL2 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Candidate-path CP1 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID-List =3D >=20 > Where and are opposites, also and are opposites. >=20 > REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multiple reverse SLs=20 > correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forward SL is=20 > using Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segments=20 > to cover multiple ECMP paths in reverse. >=20 > REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is a reverse of SL=20 > 2, but SL 2 is **not** a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not mutually reverse. >=20 > REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to every forward SL is=20 > useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the reverse direction. > I.e., if there=E2=80=99s just a unidirectional =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80=9D = SR Policy that needs=20 > to know the return paths for each of its SLs. >=20 > Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about reverse SLs. I=E2=80= =99m=20 > requesting the WG to review the proposal and decide if we should=20 > standardize this. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Mike. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >=20 _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring =20 ------=_Part_745450_2022866187.1637094836753 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mike and all,

IMO, one of possible use cases of "reverse SL" could be a case of ce= ntralized control plane where controller (PCE) due to some input constrains= /policy should take in account the calculation and usage of reverse SLs (pa= ths) for some specific primary  SLs. For example when we have to match= primary and reverse SLs due to some operations requirements.
So I support Mike proposal. I think it can b= e mentioned in both places: draft-filsfils-spring-sr-policy-cons= iderations and SR Policy architecture draft.

Thank you.

SY,
Boris

=20
=20
On Monday, November 15, 2021, 08:25:26 PM GMT+3, Greg M= irsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Mik= e,
I have a question about the possible use of the reverse SR path asso= ciation and much appreciate your help understanding its use in OAM.
In draft-= ietf-spring-bfd we propose a new Non-FEC TLV to specify the SR pol= icy for the reverse direction of a BFD session bootstrapped via LSP ping. A= lso, we propose that the same Non-FEC TLV can be used to control the path o= f the LSP Echo Reply sent in response to the LSP Echo Request that includes= the Non-FEC TLV. What other use cases for the SR reverse association do yo= u see?

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 8:26 AM Mike = Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<= /a>> wrote:
Hi Joel,

The context could be Circuit-Style SR Policy, or even just sending OAM pack= ets on a particular path and looping it back on the exact same path/paths i= n reverse, by putting both forward and reverse label stacks (with or withou= t any SR Policy at the opposite end).

Note that I'm not talking about SR Policy POL1 being reverse of POL2. I'm t= alking about individual Segment Lists (SLs) being reverses of other SLs.
The meaning of "reverse SL" is simple when both SLs are expressed as adjace= ncies. But it's currently not well defined when Node SIDs are involved. For= example, the reverse of one Node-SID SL may require multiple Adjacency-SID= SLs to cover all ECMP paths.

So, I'm just bringing up this topic. I tend to agree with Cheng that we sho= uld sync this with PCE/IDR/SPRING/etc.

Thanks,
Mike.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 10:53 PM
To: Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) <mkoldych@cisco.com>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.= org>
Cc: Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) <rgandhi@cisco.com>; Chengli (Cheng Li) <= ;c.l@huawei.= com>
Subject: Re: [spring] SR Policy: per-SL reverse

I am missing something.  In what context is it important to say that p= olicy 2 is intended to represent the reverse of policy 1?

Yours,
Joel

On 11/12/2021 9:09 PM, Mike Koldychev (mkoldych) wrote:
> Hi SPRING WG,
>
> During the PCE session there was a presentation about signaling per-SL=
> (Segment List) reverse paths, see
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-multipath-03#s= ect
> ion-4.5
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-mul= tipath-03#section-4.5>.
> I received comments to bring this up in the SPRING WG.
>
> In the simplest case, you have two SR Policies in opposite directions,=
> something like this:
>
> SR policy POL1 <headend =3D PE1, endpoint =3D PE2>
>
>    Candidate-path CP1
>
>      SID-List =3D <ABC>
>
> SR policy POL2 <headend =3D PE2, endpoint =3D PE1>
>
>    Candidate-path CP1
>
>      SID-List =3D <CBA>
>
> Where <ABC> and <CBA> are two segment lists that can be co= nsidered
> =E2=80=9Copposites=E2=80=9D of each other, maybe traversing the same l= inks in reverse,
> or maybe just the same nodes, etc.
>
> However, if the SR Policies have multiple segment lists, it gets more<= br clear=3D"none"> > complicated:
>
> SR policy POL1 <headend =3D PE1, endpoint =3D PE2>
>
>    Candidate-path CP1
>
>      SID-List =3D <ABC>
>
>      SID-List =3D <DEF>
>
> SR policy POL2 <headend =3D PE2, endpoint =3D PE1>
>
>    Candidate-path CP1
>
>      SID-List =3D <CBA>
>
>      SID-List =3D <FED>
>
> Where <ABC> and <CBA> are opposites, also <DEF> and = <FED> are opposites.
>
> REQ 1: It should be possible to express that multiple reverse SLs
> correspond to the same forward SL. For example, if the forward SL is <= br clear=3D"none"> > using Node Segment(s) with ECMP and reverse SLs use Adjacency Segments=
> to cover multiple ECMP paths in reverse.
>
> REQ 2: It should be possible to express that SL 1 is a reverse of SL <= br clear=3D"none"> > 2, but SL 2 is **not** a reverse of SL 1. I.e., not mutually reverse.<= br clear=3D"none"> >
> REQ 3: Having a set of reverse SL(s) associated to every forward SL is=
> useful even if there is no actual SR Policy in the reverse direction.<= br clear=3D"none"> > I.e., if there=E2=80=99s just a unidirectional =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80= =9D SR Policy that needs
> to know the return paths for each of its SLs.
>
> Currently SR Policy Architecture does not talk about reverse SLs. I=E2= =80=99m
> requesting the WG to review the proposal and decide if we should
> standardize this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> sprin= g@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/spring
__________________= _____________________________
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h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
------=_Part_745450_2022866187.1637094836753-- From nobody Tue Nov 16 18:08:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 061B33A0803; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:08:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QnrWr8rejEk9; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com 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"draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AdfahRcxVKOaJ14hSsuAU9I2/DcNRgAhKwPQABKrkSA= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:08:28 +0000 Message-ID: <12461db8ace849968d18c57c9a8d029a@huawei.com> References: <97a70779f92b497faeba0de9592fdd88@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.40.195] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:08:40 -0000 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Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AdfahRcxVKOaJ14hSsuAU9I2/DcNRv//qTaA//2zTjA= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 07:37:57 +0000 Message-ID: <13b5091a73394d549432066f3e6cd75d@huawei.com> References: <97a70779f92b497faeba0de9592fdd88@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.40.195] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 07:38:09 -0000 SGkgR3JlZywNCg0KSW4gcmVhbCB3b3JkLCB1cGdyYWRlIGFsbCBkZXZpY2VzIGlzIGhhcmQsIGVz 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dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EIq2uFz7qHJd for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 07:01:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C7113A0D63 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 07:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id t5so12745035edd.0 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 07:01:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9llnANOdDSya748GR8DzSHpbsaAihfY753LiMU6gZNg=; b=it+KHru90nKLjVNX23JMrPPicOeSZSc5lQz8Mh3adjrHZuJfa7Bpus7Si+TDcamZVd 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List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:01:15 -0000 On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 11:38 PM Tianran Zhou wrot= e: > > Hi Greg, > > In real word, upgrade all devices is hard, especially for multi-vendors. = And there are devices not able to update the fast path. > Supporting only SRH but not other IPv6 EHs is normal. Tianran, I do not know what "normal" means in this context, please quantify. If you're saying that supporting SRH and not other EHs is protocol conformant with RFC8200 then I might argue it's not (although considering that SRH already breaks at least one other in AH, I suppose the argument is academic). If you're saying that SRH is already widely deployed in the relatively short time RFC8754 has been published, then, considering that supporting SRH requires hardware change, that would apparently contradict the statement that upgrade of devices is hard. If you're saying that vendors are choosing to support SRH and not other EHs then please define what it means to support and EH. If a vendor supports SRH but not SRH TLVs, which AFAIK is common for hardware implementations, then is that really supporting SRH? As previously discussed if TLVs aren't supported then defining a TLV is pointless. I believe the crux of your argument comes down to the fact, or preception, that the TLVs in Hop-by-Hop Options before the header and Destination Options before the routing header MUST be processed where as RFC8754 explicitly allows SRH TLVs to be ignored. RFC8200 relaxed the requirement on Hop-by-Hop options being processed at every node. RFC8200 was published in 2017, so an obvious question is what has been the impact, are vendors ignoring HBH options them instead of dropping? I asked that question in 6man last week and the answer seems to be that the impact is not known yet (because it takes several years to reach sufficient deployment levels of a new protocol because upgrade of devices is hard). For Destination Options they would be required to be processed by every intermediate destination, but that could be adapted to allow them to be ignored. IMO, if vendors are able to support a new EH protocol as complex as SRH, and especially if they're going to add SRH TLV support, then there's no reason why they can't support other EHs like Hop-by-Hop options or at least ignore them. Tom > > Best, > Tianran > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 11:48 AM > To: Tianran Zhou > Cc: Ron Bonica ; Tom Herbert ; = draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > Hi Tianran, > as I imagine it, the deployment of SRH in a production network, i.e., a n= etwork with legacy nodes, will require upgrading SW and firmware. If that i= s the case, the decision of supporting in the upgrades only the SRH but not= other IPv6 EHs, e.g., Destination and HbH, seems unreasonable to me and do= es not rise to the level that justifies the duplication of ways to support = the Alternate Marking method in IPv6 networks. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 5:03 PM Tianran Zhou wro= te: > > > Hi Ron, > > Please see my reply in line. > > > > Thanks, > > Tianran > > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ron Bonica [mailto:rbonica@juniper.net] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8816=E6=97= =A5 6:20 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou ; Tom= Herbert < > > tom@herbertland.com> > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf= .org; > > ipv6@ietf.org > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-al= t-mark > > > > Folks, > > > > The SRH TLV for Alternate Marking isn't needed because its meaning is > > identical to the AltMark Option when it appears in a Destination > > Options Header that precedes the SRH. > > > > Arguments regarding the HBH are orthogonal to this issue. The HBH is > > processed at every node along a packet's deliver path, while the > > Destination Options header that precedes the SRH is processed " by the > > first destination that appears in the IPv6 Destination Address field > > plus subsequent destinations listed in the Routing header. > > > > ZTR> This is clear to me. But this is not my point to propose the SRH > > ZTR> TLV > > method. > > > > Arguments regarding whether a complete IPv6 implementation must > > support the Destination Options header have already been settled by RFC= 8200. > > > > ZTR> I am sorry, I do not understand what do you mean hear. Could you > > please give more hint? > > > > Arguments about whether it is easier to parse two smaller extension > > headers or one larger extension headers are not appropriate in the > > IETF, because they are platform dependent. > > > > ZTR> My point is not about parsing two smaller EH vs. one larger EH. > > ZTR> My > > point is the deployment when a network that support SRH but not > > support other EHs. > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spring On Behalf Of Tianran Zhou > > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 3:56 AM > > To: Tom Herbert > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > Firstly, the proposed solution follows the same logic as RFC8200, as > > in your text. So I do not see any problem. We just find another away > > to "ignore the options". > > " RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to process HBH options > > and acknowledged that this is reality. From an application > > perspective, if the TLVs can't be processed in a "fast path" it is best= to ignore the options." > > > > Secondly, I agree with the complexity of processing TLV. But we have > > already implemented the function with line rate. So the "core problem" > > from my perspective is how to deploy it. > > > > We are always on the way to performance optimization. I've read your > > draft, and your solution is very interesting. > > > > Best, > > Tianran > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 1:05 AM > > To: Tianran Zhou > > Cc: Joel M. Halpern ; > > draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 10:48 PM Tianran Zhou > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > Please see my reply below. > > > > > > Best, > > > Tianran > > > > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2021=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8811=E6= =97=A5 2:32 > > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Tianran Zhou > > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Joel M. Halpern ; > > > draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-= alt-mark > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:41 PM Tianran Zhou > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Joel, > > > > > > > > I do not need to assume a device that support SRH will support > > > > this > > new TLV. > > > > We only assume the device that do not support this new TLV can > > > > ignore > > and bypass the packet, not to drop. > > > > I see text from RFC8754 section 2.1. > > > > " all TLVs are ignored unless local configuration indicates otherwi= se " > > > > " Thus, TLV and HMAC support is optional for any implementation " > > > > " Type Length Value (TLV) entries contain OPTIONAL information that= may > > > > be used by the node identified in the Destination Address (DA) > > > > of > > the > > > > packet. " > > > > " The Length field of the TLV is used to skip the TLV while inspect= ing > > > > the SRH in case the node doesn't support or recognize the Type. = " > > > > > > > > My understanding on SRH can support my assumption. > > > > > > Tianran, > > > > > > RFC8200 allows intermediate nodes to ignore TLVs in HBH options, and > > > I > > did propose allowing intermediate destinations to ignore destination > > options before the routing header in draft-herbert-ipv6-update-opts. > > > > > > ZTR> It is true, but this is another story. RFC8200 is new, while > > RFC2460 has been widely deployed. The industry need time to evolve. I > > talked about the reality. The new proposal is motivated by the real > > deployment. > > > > > > But allowing nodes to ignore TLVs only mitigates the problems of > > > packet > > loss in the presence of TLVs; the obvious purpose of defining a new > > TLV is that it _will_ be processed, lest the host sender is just > > wasting cycles and bandwidth sending bits no one looks at. If all > > implementations of SRH ignore TLVs then defining the TLV is pointless > > (AFAIK only Linux and maybe VPP software implementations support SRH > > TLVs). For the purposes of actually processing a TLV, like alt mark, I > > still don't see any advantage to putting this in SRH as opposed to Dest= ination options or HBH options. > > > > > > ZTR> We consider the incremental deployment case, or the deployment > > > ZTR> with > > multi-vendors. That means the supportive node could process SRH TLV > > well, while the non-supportive node could still transit. This is still > > valuable for operators to narrow down the scope when packet loss > > happens. This could also encourage the new tech development and > > deployment. I see this is very useful. > > > > Tianran, > > > > I think you're dancing around the core problem. Hardware > > implementations didn't support Hop-by-Hop options because they contain > > TLVs which are considered to be hard to process in a high performance > > datapath hardware pipeline. RFC2460 did mandate that all intermediate > > nodes need to process the HBH options which left hardware vendors with > > three choices: 1) process them in a software slow path and adhere to > > RFC2460 2) ignore them altogether and violate RFC2460 3) drop the > > packet which technically adheres to RFC2460, but obviously kills any > > utility of feature. RFC8200 relaxed the requirement for all nodes to > > process HBH options and acknowledged that this is reality. From an > > application perspective, if the TLVs can't be processed in a "fast > > path" it is best to ignore the options. > > > > So the underlying problem is in fact the complexity of processing TLVs > > in hardware datapath. Just replicating the same TLV mechanism in more > > protocols like SRH does nothing to help solve the problem. Until this > > is solved I don't believe we'll ever see TLVs being productively used > > in L3 (I suppose this might the anticipated industry evolution to > > which you referred). On the other hand if the problem is solved and a > > deployable an economical solution is presented that hardware vendors > > would adopt, then the problem would be solved for a whole class of use > > case (i.e. the same basic TLV construct is used in HBH, DestOpts, SRH, > > TCP options, IP options, UDP options, etc.). > > > > If you're interested, I will be outlining the solution to this problem > > that we're working on in IPv6/v6ops meeting tomorrow. > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Tianran > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. > > > > Halpern > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:38 AM > > > > To: Tianran Zhou > > > > Cc: draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark > > > > > > > > (Again, speaking as participant.) You seem to be assuming that > > > > devices (hard or soft) that support SRH > > will support this new TLV. It is not obvious that they will support > > any SRH TLVs. And if they do, they clearly will not support a not yet > > defined TLV. > > > > > > > > Yours, > > > > Joel > > > > > > > > On 11/9/2021 9:04 PM, Tianran Zhou wrote: > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > > > > > All you arguments are correct. > > > > > If a network is built all by supportive devices (support HbH, > > > > > DoH), > > there is no doubt that 6man-alt-mk is a sound solution. > > > > > > > > > > However, existing network may consist many non-supportive devices= . > > > > > These devices may 1. support SRH, but not HbH and DoH. This is > > > > > the > > current situation about most chip vendors. > > > > > 2. some vendors may not want to support HbH and DoH in near futur= e. > > > > > > > > > > Then, how to deploy alt-mk in these network? > > > > > The way is to bypass those non-supportive nodes without packet dr= op From nobody Wed Nov 17 08:15:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E933A0DE3; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 08:15:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.701, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 498b9b0d-ffef-46ed-0078-08d9aa08a0c1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Nov 2021 20:27:08.0938 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: CVpKST+do2rvL7piLDJWs21AtFxxV86/S3hXUYtHMAPpPzPJVR2twpz7gWQAx5eoF32yJomUB0sRzPFD7kD9sQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR11MB4326 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.18, xbe-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] uSID and destination options X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:27:17 -0000 --_000_CH0PR11MB53626C377C45096A2F0E0E16C89A9CH0PR11MB5362namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, I=92m glad we read that the same. As usual for SRv6, the SR source needs to decide how to build the IPv6 exte= nsion header chain. With current text, when extension headers are required = to be processed at the ultimate segment, the SR source would need to add an= SRH. Would you agree? The pseudocode could be modified such that the SR source adds an SRH only w= hen it wants a dest-opt header to be processed at each segment endpoint. Se= ction 4.1.1 would state the pseudocode is invoked when processing any heade= r type other than HBH or dest-opt (vs just upper layer header). Darren On 2021-11-16, 1:14 PM, "Ron Bonica" wrote: Hi Darren, That=92s my reading, too. But this leads us to additional questions: - How do we encode destination options that need to be processed at= the SR Path egress node only? - How do we encode the Fragment Option? - How do we encode the ESP option? In these cases, do we need an SRH to indicate that the extension headers th= at follow it are to be processed by the SR path egress node only? Would tha= t SRH carry any routing information at all? = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:31 AM To: Ron Bonica ; spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: Re: uSID and destination options [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Ron, my read of section 4.1.1 of the draft is the dest opt in your examp= le packet would be processed at every segment endpoint. Darren ________________________________ From: spring > on b= ehalf of Ron Bonica > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:12 PM To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options C-SID authors, Consider an SRv6 packet that contains: =B7 An outer IPv6 header =B7 A Destination Options Header =B7 IPv4 payload The packet does not contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field = in the outer IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID containe= r contains two or more C-SIDs. Where are the destination options processed? The following are possible ans= wers to this question: =B7 At every segment endpoint node =B7 At the SR path egress node Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_CH0PR11MB53626C377C45096A2F0E0E16C89A9CH0PR11MB5362namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ron, I=92m glad we read that= the same.

 

As usual for SRv6, the SR sourc= e needs to decide how to build the IPv6 extension header chain. With curren= t text, when extension headers are required to be processed at the ultimate= segment, the SR source would need to add an SRH.

 

Would you agree?

 

The pseudocode could be modifie= d such that the SR source adds an SRH only when it wants a dest-opt header = to be processed at each segment endpoint. Section 4.1.1 would state the pse= udocode is invoked when processing any header type other than HBH or dest-opt (vs just upper layer header).<= /o:p>

 

Darren

 

 

On 2021-11-16, 1:14 PM,= "Ron Bonica" <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrot= e:

 

Hi Darren,

 

That=92s my reading, too. But this leads us to add= itional questions:

-         How do we encode destination options that need to be processed at the S= R Path egress node only?

-         How do we encode the Fragment Option?

-         How do we encode the ESP option?

In these cases, do we need an SRH to indicate that= the extension headers that follow it are to be processed by the SR path eg= ress node only? Would that SRH carry any routing information at all?

 

        &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;    Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business= Use Only

From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) <ddukes=3D4= 0cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:31 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; spring@ietf.org; 6man@ie= tf.org
Subject: Re: uSID and destination options

 

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi= Ron, my read of section 4.1.1 of the draft is the dest opt in your example= packet would be processed at every segment endpoint.

 

Da= rren

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ron Bonica &= lt;rbonica=3D40ju= niper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:12 PM
To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options

&n= bsp;

C-SID authors,

 

Consider an SRv6 packet that contains:

 

=B7        = ; An outer IPv6 header

=B7        = ; A Destination Options Header

=B7        = ; IPv4 payload

 

The packet does not contain an SRH. However, the D= estination Address field  in the outer IPv6 header contains a C-SID co= ntainer and the C-SID container contains two or more C-SIDs.

 

Where are the destination options processed? The f= ollowing are possible answers to this question:=

 

=B7        = ; At every segment endpoint node

=B7        = ; At the SR path egress node

 

        &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            &nbs= p;      Ron<= /o:p>

 

 

Juniper Business= Use Only

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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:58:26 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: uSID and destination options Thread-Index: AdfaU1XjHtOHXaHzT5Wb+lwAT5/0pAAmpCoCAAl1YHAALQjg9QALIhRw Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:58:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.6.300.5 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2021-11-15T19:02:01.0000000Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=2; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_enabled: true msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_setdate: 2021-11-17T20:58:25Z msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_method: Standard msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_name: 0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755 msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_siteid: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_actionid: 2646e32d-6993-4917-8d87-71a3edf93926 msip_label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_contentbits: 0 x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 75673895-96ef-46f4-d954-08d9aa0d0088 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR05MB5108: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273; 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boundary="_000_BL0PR05MB531686E0ABC26E980FDDDF66AE9A9BL0PR05MB5316namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 75673895-96ef-46f4-d954-08d9aa0d0088 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Nov 2021 20:58:26.8611 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: PdtG0avOmnOQZCFeI56flgcobUf3WCNIVmRQF1GE3m1TelJrH4+2ZSo6/sgairb7nv5LnjJ4NF3GC0onV5na0Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR05MB5108 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 7YbIBpcT8Dg0yjy6M8f04sI-BJUEvgks X-Proofpoint-GUID: 7YbIBpcT8Dg0yjy6M8f04sI-BJUEvgks X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.790,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.0.607.475 definitions=2021-11-17_07,2021-11-17_01,2020-04-07_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2111170094 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] uSID and destination options X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:58:38 -0000 --_000_BL0PR05MB531686E0ABC26E980FDDDF66AE9A9BL0PR05MB5316namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darren, Yes, the SR ingress node would need to add an SRH whenever the packet inclu= des an extension header that needs to be processed at the packet's ultimate= destination only. This would be an odd routing header as it would include no routing informat= ion whatsoever. You might want to document this along with the other case in which you need= an SRH that contains no routing information. This is the case where: * The entire SR Path is represented in the IPv6 Destination Address by = a single C-SID container * The SRH does not contain any SIDs * The SRH is required to carry the flag, tag and TLV fields Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 3:27 PM To: Ron Bonica ; spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: Re: uSID and destination options [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Ron, I'm glad we read that the same. As usual for SRv6, the SR source needs to decide how to build the IPv6 exte= nsion header chain. With current text, when extension headers are required = to be processed at the ultimate segment, the SR source would need to add an= SRH. Would you agree? The pseudocode could be modified such that the SR source adds an SRH only w= hen it wants a dest-opt header to be processed at each segment endpoint. Se= ction 4.1.1 would state the pseudocode is invoked when processing any heade= r type other than HBH or dest-opt (vs just upper layer header). Darren On 2021-11-16, 1:14 PM, "Ron Bonica" > wrote: Hi Darren, That's my reading, too. But this leads us to additional questions: - How do we encode destination options that need to be processed at= the SR Path egress node only? - How do we encode the Fragment Option? - How do we encode the ESP option? In these cases, do we need an SRH to indicate that the extension headers th= at follow it are to be processed by the SR path egress node only? Would tha= t SRH carry any routing information at all? = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:31 AM To: Ron Bonica >; spring@ie= tf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: Re: uSID and destination options [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Ron, my read of section 4.1.1 of the draft is the dest opt in your examp= le packet would be processed at every segment endpoint. Darren ________________________________ From: spring > on b= ehalf of Ron Bonica > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:12 PM To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options C-SID authors, Consider an SRv6 packet that contains: * An outer IPv6 header * A Destination Options Header * IPv4 payload The packet does not contain an SRH. However, the Destination Address field = in the outer IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C-SID containe= r contains two or more C-SIDs. Where are the destination options processed? The following are possible ans= wers to this question: * At every segment endpoint node * At the SR path egress node Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BL0PR05MB531686E0ABC26E980FDDDF66AE9A9BL0PR05MB5316namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Darren,<= /span>

 

Yes, the SR ingress= node would need to add an SRH whenever the packet includes an extension he= ader that needs to be processed at the packet’s ultimate destination = only.

 

This would be an od= d routing header as it would include no routing information whatsoever.

 

You might want to d= ocument this along with the other case in which you need an SRH that contai= ns no routing information. This is the case where:

  • The entire SR Path is represented in the IPv6 Destin= ation Address by a single C-SID container
  • The SRH does not contain any SIDs
  • The SRH is required to carry the flag, tag and TLV fields=

 

   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) <ddukes=3D40ci= sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 3:27 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; spring@ietf.org; 6man@ie= tf.org
Subject: Re: uSID and destination options

 

<= span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",= sans-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]=

 

Hi Ron, I’m glad we read that the same.

 

As usual for SRv6, the SR source needs to decide how= to build the IPv6 extension header chain. With current text, when extensio= n headers are required to be processed at the ultimate segment, the SR sour= ce would need to add an SRH.

 

Would you agree?

 

The pseudocode could be modified such that the SR so= urce adds an SRH only when it wants a dest-opt header to be processed at ea= ch segment endpoint. Section 4.1.1 would state the pseudocode is invoked wh= en processing any header type other than HBH or dest-opt (vs just upper layer header).

 

Darren

 

 

On 2= 021-11-16, 1:14 PM, "Ron Bonica" <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>= ; wrote:

 

Hi Darren,

 

That’s my reading, too. But this leads us to additional quest= ions:

- &n= bsp;       How do we e= ncode destination options that need to be processed at the SR Path egress n= ode only?

- &n= bsp;       How do we e= ncode the Fragment Option?

- &n= bsp;       How do we e= ncode the ESP option?

In these cases, do we need an SRH to indicate that the extension he= aders that follow it are to be processed by the SR path egress node only? W= ould that SRH carry any routing information at all?

 

           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp; Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Darren Dukes= (ddukes) <ddukes= =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:31 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@ju= niper.net>; spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org
Subject: Re: uSID and destination options

 

[External Email. Be cautious of content]=

 

Hi Ron, my read of sectio= n 4.1.1 of the draft is the dest opt in your example packet would be proces= sed at every segment endpoint.

 

Darren

From: spring <<= a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org">spring-bounces@ietf.org> o= n behalf of Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:12 PM
To: spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] uSID and destination options

 

C-SID authors,

 

Consider an SRv6 packet that contains:

 

·         An outer IP= v6 header

·         A Destinati= on Options Header

·         IPv4 payloa= d

 

The packet does not contain an SRH. However, the Destination Addres= s field  in the outer IPv6 header contains a C-SID container and the C= -SID container contains two or more C-SIDs.

 

Where are the destination options processed? The following are poss= ible answers to this question:

 

·         At every se= gment endpoint node

·         At the SR p= ath egress node

 

           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;   Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

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CC: Greg Mirsky , Ron Bonica , "draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark Thread-Index: AdfcXm0oPNV/qlX8SXKAZzXo+N7k7g== Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 09:35:46 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.175.26] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] A question for draft-fz-spring-srv6-alt-mark X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 09:35:57 -0000 SGkgVG9tLA0KRnJvbSB3aGF0IEkga25vdywgZGV2aWNlcyAic3VwcG9ydCIgYm90aCBIYkggYW5k 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YkggYW5kIERvSCBpbiBuZWFyIGZ1dHVyZS4NCj4gPiA+ID4gPg0KPiA+ID4gPiA+IFRoZW4sIGhv dyB0byBkZXBsb3kgYWx0LW1rIGluIHRoZXNlIG5ldHdvcms/DQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gVGhlIHdheSBp cyB0byBieXBhc3MgdGhvc2Ugbm9uLXN1cHBvcnRpdmUgbm9kZXMgd2l0aG91dCBwYWNrZXQgDQo+ ID4gPiA+ID4gZHJvcA0K From nobody Thu Nov 18 17:19:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E0A3A041A; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 17:19:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Va7ushl23wL; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 17:19:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F0273A0595; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 17:19:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HwJdM4C5Sz686M3; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:15:51 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.144) by fraeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.20; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 02:19:37 +0100 Received: from dggeml757-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.137) by dggeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.20; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:19:35 +0800 Received: from dggeml757-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.137]) by dggeml757-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.137]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:19:35 +0800 From: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" To: "spring@ietf.org" CC: "spring-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: The SPRING session minutes Thread-Index: Adfc43K0KkH20FkSQlyEVNodI5JZQQ== Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 01:19:35 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.153.183.235] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_caf213bdf04f4e76b5c5d6fd5dd68cf1huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [spring] The SPRING session minutes X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 01:19:50 -0000 --_000_caf213bdf04f4e76b5c5d6fd5dd68cf1huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, The meeting minutes from the SPRING session have been uploaded: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/minutes-112-spring-00.tx= t Please check the minutes and let the Chairs know if any changes are needed. Thank you! Best regards, Shuping --_000_caf213bdf04f4e76b5c5d6fd5dd68cf1huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

The meeting minutes from the= SPRING session have been uploaded:

https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/minutes-112-spring-00.txt

 

Please check the minutes and= let the Chairs know if any changes are needed.

 

Thank you!

 

Best regards,

Shuping

 

--_000_caf213bdf04f4e76b5c5d6fd5dd68cf1huaweicom_-- From nobody Fri Nov 19 01:23:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCBF3A0CC5; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 01:23:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L4NSAWrXtuno; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 01:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 229763A0CC1; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 01:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml743-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.200]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4HwWMg3GmTz67lT1; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:19:43 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeme751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.97) by fraeml743-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.20; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 10:23:29 +0100 Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) by dggeme751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.20; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:23:27 +0800 Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) by dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.020; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:23:27 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Rajesh M , "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" CC: "draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids Thread-Index: AQHX2t735p7NDvIF40yWjNxe9rDRwawKk2Ng Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:23:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: 202111091131582189249@zte.com.cn, SA1PR05MB82100D9092AE3CB74C11259ABE989@SA1PR05MB8210.namprd05.prod.outlook.com <202111151715594978119@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.40.66] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Questions about REPLACEB6 of draft-salih-spring-srv6-inter-domain-sids X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Schwartz via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.40.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <163768997021.9950.16814747984245499137@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Benjamin Schwartz Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:52:50 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 17:52:51 -0000 Reviewer: Benjamin Schwartz Review result: Ready This document is ready with a few minor clarifications. It does not seem to require detailed Security Area review. Section 2.1 "printable ASCII characters": Needs reference to what qualifies as "printable ASCII". "color is a 32-bit numerical value": specify unsigned? Section 2.4 "represented as a 4-byte number": In what byte order? Section 9 "Protection": It's not clear who this is protecting from what. Possible alternative title: "Recovering from segment failure". From nobody Tue Nov 23 19:00:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F283A088A; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:59:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lp9INrds-6dT; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua1-x935.google.com (mail-ua1-x935.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::935]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDC1D3A0889; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:59:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua1-x935.google.com with SMTP id o1so2078459uap.4; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:59:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=bQNFYAPRlZLEOYheRKr/kKp1ozGvk+GIgJqB6UwIvyY=; b=Kzj7lrDcTPAq4skWWYRJLN2Ef2CNi6vvTK6UaQyCEicTpJBTySq6nJut0y6t1L5VnE xk37bFYl3CPk2xUi+BFgq7HFikZ/C/X9AfwzAWeoBz06n0NGeoAdLUnW3m4fvCToxuxz 1bwgA82RPSYw0M9IoCgPKZ/mB+fGRkbiiF8rRGcRPVrJ/2M3VCt1TlNIEkqPEdrB3mJT XeW5T7Qd2I3n0B2Vo3hIOS7SjgLe2v/yLgWFCUqsoeSmAH/z57pkpfqsQDHkeohBDaZ1 3voAdPpHnMd+KgeRx6FrWCQBUL1d3k9uX6ev3LP5v0YaehX7Xspv+tm3LaQc/HdTKIpP M7iA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=bQNFYAPRlZLEOYheRKr/kKp1ozGvk+GIgJqB6UwIvyY=; b=ooyPvHDfkYzpv5BPsQqGRWrC/TJXU5s2O36NzAWhQbL+kyDGErSqJvWs/1CfG7cspe yxJLzRYjOEq9i53Cg/XOyvyLTJQglz/9s1dcow5Suzj+J63k0wHqXHevPRALFRmL/8rH gNY+v57oYVSG4GFgHgzsYYuFfjNzueorbJvLMBU1NHPR9ibJv4cqba1ZzFMKJcfgd2pC yPSgfEi8NTMcQ5gTEaHxnHAXo9NTvcZB102WnITypsV/BkdsoS6q4RmnBYtchUL2XR/Z sz5sNHcizQrHnFNbMp6Y0duR1LgE1+gayOUBB1N1wRmWdrAOpR7PBGJ6UG6YPH0/fbQR w4WA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ZQTflyeV/O53TmfvipHu/pVQDV+yjMJ+OmOrXyao+0qXET3oD aUUBoQIoCpvq0QQcxoQSiqPnVv1xxbJ3yulmyxg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxGD6iitBdG4XYfmZUJAwZiu0p48I6s155wxvovHeObegel6kgBH1R3Qjr+WVuRxykKJSI4zgyLCnFuJM5xXvY= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:4405:: with SMTP id m5mr4319635uam.11.1637722788030; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:59:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163768997021.9950.16814747984245499137@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <163768997021.9950.16814747984245499137@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Ketan Talaulikar Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 08:29:36 +0530 Message-ID: To: Benjamin Schwartz Cc: secdir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000056dae05d1800d4e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-14 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 02:59:53 -0000 --000000000000056dae05d1800d4e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Benjamin, Thanks for your review and please check in-line below for responses. On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 at 23:22, Benjamin Schwartz via Datatracker < noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > Reviewer: Benjamin Schwartz > Review result: Ready > > This document is ready with a few minor clarifications. It does not seem > to > require detailed Security Area review. > > Section 2.1 > "printable ASCII characters": Needs reference to what qualifies as > "printable > ASCII". > KT> This made me search around a bit. I've found RFC20 (which doesn't explicitly define it) and then RFC1342 that uses that term. I thought this was a well-known thing and not something that needs additional qualifications or references and happy to put the right reference if one exists. > > "color is a 32-bit numerical value": specify unsigned? > KT> Yes. Will update in the next update. > > Section 2.4 > "represented as a 4-byte number": In what byte order? > KT> Since this document does not specify an "on the wire protocol" the byte order would be dictated by the system implementing it. > > Section 9 "Protection": It's not clear who this is protecting from what. > Possible alternative title: "Recovering from segment failure". > KT> Ack. Will change to "Recovering from Network Failures". Thanks, Ketan --000000000000056dae05d1800d4e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Benjamin,

Thanks fo= r your review and please check in-line below for responses.

<= /div>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 at 23:22, Benjamin Schwartz via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
=
Reviewer: Benjamin Schwar= tz
Review result: Ready

This document is ready with a few minor clarifications.=C2=A0 It does not s= eem to
require detailed Security Area review.

Section 2.1
"printable ASCII characters": Needs reference to what qualifies a= s "printable
ASCII".

KT> This made me search= around a bit. I've found RFC20 (which doesn't explicitly define it= ) and then RFC1342 that uses that term. I thought this was a well-known thi= ng and not something that needs additional qualifications or references and= happy to put the right reference if one exists.
=C2=A0

"color is a 32-bit numerical value": specify unsigned?

KT> Yes. Will update in the next update.
=
=C2=A0

Section 2.4
"represented as a 4-byte number": In what byte order?

KT> Since this document does not specify an &qu= ot;on the wire protocol" the byte order would be dictated by the syste= m implementing it.
=C2=A0

Section 9 "Protection": It's not clear who this is protecting= from what.
Possible alternative title: "Recovering from segment failure".

KT> Ack. Will change to "Recoveri= ng from Network Failures".

Thanks,
= Ketan
=C2=A0
--000000000000056dae05d1800d4e-- From nobody Sat Nov 27 03:06:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD693A0745; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 03:06:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.40.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: spring@ietf.org Message-ID: <163801117480.3392.12234422705401587071@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 03:06:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-path-segment-03.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 11:06:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Path Segment for SRv6 (Segment Routing in IPv6) Authors : Cheng Li Weiqiang Cheng Mach(Guoyi) Chen Dhruv Dhody Yongqing Zhu Filename : draft-ietf-spring-srv6-path-segment-03.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2021-11-27 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end paths by encoding an ordered list of instructions, called "segments". The SR architecture can be implemented over an MPLS data plane as well as an IPv6 data plane. Currently, Path Segment has been defined to identify an SR path in SR-MPLS networks, and is used for various use-cases such as end-to- end SR Path Protection and Performance Measurement (PM) of an SR path. This document defines the Path Segment to identify an SRv6 path in an IPv6 network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-path-segment/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-path-segment-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-srv6-path-segment-03 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/