From sip-admin@ietf.org Tue Jul 1 09:07:14 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19532 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XKqM-000135-GN for ssm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:06:46 -0400 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:06:46 -0400 Message-ID: <20030701130646.18162.18037.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org To: ssm-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: sip-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sip-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, ssm-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org. Thanks! Passwords for ssm-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- ssm@ietf.org mifemu https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/ssm/ssm-archive%40lists.ietf.org From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 1 09:29:56 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25641 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h61DTTI19505 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:29:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XLCK-00054U-Qu for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:29:28 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25517 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XLBq-0004qa-Cs for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:28:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:28:58 -0400 Message-ID: <20030701132858.18162.77108.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org To: ssm-web-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: sip-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sip-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, ssm-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org. Thanks! Passwords for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- ssm@ietf.org daemut https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/ssm/ssm-web-archive%40ietf.org From ssm-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 3 04:33:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02288 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XzVa-0003zH-Dn; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:32:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XzUr-0003yh-DZ for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:31:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02224 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XzUo-0004CS-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:31:14 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XzUn-0004CO-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:31:13 -0400 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h638VDqL017283; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:31:13 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:31:19 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Hoerdt?= To: wg-multicast@internet2.edu, ssm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Two drafts on multi-source SSM Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hello, We are working on Multicast multiple dynamics source problem in a same applicative group in the case of SSM networks environments (for example multi-party conferences with dynamics data sources) . Basically, it means trying to reproduce/enhance/emulate the behavior of ASM applications with the SSM network capabilities at the end hosts. This w= ork is inspired by Hugh Holbrook's thesis and based on the sender advertisment method. We produced two drafts which are available in two formats at : http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-hoerdt-mboned-multisource-ssm-01= =2Ehtml http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-01.html http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-hoerdt-mboned-multisource-ssm-01= =2Etxt http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-01.txt We didn't find any working group really related to this topic at the IETF, and we would like to know if there are people interested in this topic. So any comments would be welcome. Best regards, Hoerdt Micka=EBl LSIIT-Strasbourg _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 3 04:33:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02309 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XzWT-00042o-4r for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:32:57 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h638WvSU015540 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:32:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XzWQ-00041h-Tl for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:32:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02278 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XzWO-0004D8-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:32:52 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XzWN-0004D4-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:32:51 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XzVa-0003zH-Dn; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:32:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19XzUr-0003yh-DZ for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:31:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02224 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XzUo-0004CS-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:31:14 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19XzUn-0004CO-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:31:13 -0400 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h638VDqL017283; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:31:13 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:31:19 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Hoerdt?= To: wg-multicast@internet2.edu, ssm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Two drafts on multi-source SSM Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hello, We are working on Multicast multiple dynamics source problem in a same applicative group in the case of SSM networks environments (for example multi-party conferences with dynamics data sources) . Basically, it means trying to reproduce/enhance/emulate the behavior of ASM applications with the SSM network capabilities at the end hosts. This w= ork is inspired by Hugh Holbrook's thesis and based on the sender advertisment method. We produced two drafts which are available in two formats at : http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-hoerdt-mboned-multisource-ssm-01= =2Ehtml http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-01.html http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-hoerdt-mboned-multisource-ssm-01= =2Etxt http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-01.txt We didn't find any working group really related to this topic at the IETF, and we would like to know if there are people interested in this topic. So any comments would be welcome. Best regards, Hoerdt Micka=EBl LSIIT-Strasbourg _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 3 09:37:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10379 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y4Gj-0004Dx-0m; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:37:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y4G8-0004DC-CX for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:36:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10347 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y4G6-0006JL-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:36:22 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y4G5-0006JI-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:36:21 -0400 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h63DaKqL023358; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:36:20 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:36:29 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Hoerdt?= To: mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu cc: wg-multicast@internet2.edu, ssm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Re: Multi-source in SSM networks Drafts announcement Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hello, A new version of the Internet-draft named "Source Discovery Protocol in SSM Networks" is available in two formats on : http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-02.html http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-02.txt Changes : - Added a scalability section - wording. Hoerdt Micka=EBl LSIIT-Strasbourg _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 3 09:37:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10396 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y4Gn-0004Ge-NV for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:37:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h63Db5dM016397 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:37:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y4Gn-0004GO-IH for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:37:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10364 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y4Gl-0006Jq-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:37:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y4Gl-0006Jn-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:37:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y4Gj-0004Dx-0m; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:37:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y4G8-0004DC-CX for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:36:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10347 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y4G6-0006JL-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:36:22 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y4G5-0006JI-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:36:21 -0400 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h63DaKqL023358; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:36:20 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:36:29 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Hoerdt?= To: mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu cc: wg-multicast@internet2.edu, ssm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Re: Multi-source in SSM networks Drafts announcement Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hello, A new version of the Internet-draft named "Source Discovery Protocol in SSM Networks" is available in two formats on : http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-02.html http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-02.txt Changes : - Added a scalability section - wording. Hoerdt Micka=EBl LSIIT-Strasbourg _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 3 11:33:48 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17242 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y651-00028U-Bg; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:33:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y64R-0001xj-CL for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16774 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y64Q-0000L2-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:26 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y64N-0000KO-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:25 -0400 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h63FVqqL024845; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:31:52 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:32:03 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Hoerdt?= To: mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu cc: wg-multicast@internet2.edu, ssm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Re: Multi-source in SSM networks Drafts announcement Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hello, A new version of the Internet-draft named "Multi-source communications over SSM networks" is available in two formats on : http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-hoerdt-mboned-multisource-ssm-02= =2Ehtml http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-hoerdt-mboned-multisource-ssm-02= =2Etxt Changes : - Added Group Creation/Destruction primitives. Hoerdt Micka=EBl LSIIT-Strasbourg _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 3 11:33:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17258 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y65J-0002FH-2N for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:33:21 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h63FXLOF008630 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:33:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y65I-0002F7-UM for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:33:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17091 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y65H-0000OJ-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:33:19 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y65G-0000OG-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:33:18 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y651-00028U-Bg; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:33:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Y64R-0001xj-CL for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16774 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y64Q-0000L2-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:26 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Y64N-0000KO-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:25 -0400 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h63FVqqL024845; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:31:52 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:32:03 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Hoerdt?= To: mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu cc: wg-multicast@internet2.edu, ssm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Re: Multi-source in SSM networks Drafts announcement Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hello, A new version of the Internet-draft named "Multi-source communications over SSM networks" is available in two formats on : http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-hoerdt-mboned-multisource-ssm-02= =2Ehtml http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-hoerdt-mboned-multisource-ssm-02= =2Etxt Changes : - Added Group Creation/Destruction primitives. Hoerdt Micka=EBl LSIIT-Strasbourg _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From mailman-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 3 18:51:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA17297 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YCdc-0004nw-SB for ssm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:33:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:33:12 -0400 Message-ID: <20030703223312.4508.36194.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org To: ssm-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: mailman-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mailman-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mailman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk There was an error in the last monthly reminder, in that the NOTE WELL statement (below) was not included. Therefore, the reminder is being sent out again. This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, ssm-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. *************************************************************************** Note Well All statements related to the activities of the IETF and addressed to the IETF are subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC 2026, which grants to the IETF and its participants certain licenses and rights in such statements. Such statements include verbal statements in IETF meetings, as well as written and electronic communications made at any time or place, which are addressed to * the IETF plenary session, * any IETF working group or portion thereof, * the IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG, * the IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB, * any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices, * the RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function Statements made outside of an IETF meeting, mailing list or other function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF activity, group or function, are not subject to these provisions. *************************************************************************** If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org. Thanks! Passwords for ssm-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- ssm@ietf.org mifemu https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/ssm/ssm-archive%40lists.ietf.org From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 3 19:46:54 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26954 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YDmS-0002ap-Ne for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:46:24 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h63NkOtX009954 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:46:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YDkN-0002Bz-Gb for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:44:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA23729 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19YDEh-0002Vt-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:11:31 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19YCrZ-0006xn-08 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:47:37 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YCjB-0005Ln-6H for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:38:57 -0400 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:38:57 -0400 Message-ID: <20030703223857.4508.29847.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org To: ssm-web-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: mailman-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mailman-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mailman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk There was an error in the last monthly reminder, in that the NOTE WELL statement (below) was not included. Therefore, the reminder is being sent out again. This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, ssm-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. *************************************************************************** Note Well All statements related to the activities of the IETF and addressed to the IETF are subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC 2026, which grants to the IETF and its participants certain licenses and rights in such statements. Such statements include verbal statements in IETF meetings, as well as written and electronic communications made at any time or place, which are addressed to * the IETF plenary session, * any IETF working group or portion thereof, * the IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG, * the IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB, * any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices, * the RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function Statements made outside of an IETF meeting, mailing list or other function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF activity, group or function, are not subject to these provisions. *************************************************************************** If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org. Thanks! Passwords for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- ssm@ietf.org daemut https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/ssm/ssm-web-archive%40ietf.org From ssm-admin@ietf.org Fri Jul 4 06:44:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA22833 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YO2r-0000Uy-7w; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:44:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YO23-0000UL-9L for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:43:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA22779 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19YO1z-00046V-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:43:07 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19YO1y-00046S-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:43:06 -0400 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h64Ah5qL032454; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:43:06 +0200 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:43:13 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Hoerdt?= To: mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu cc: wg-multicast@internet2.edu, ssm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Re: Multi-source in SSM networks Drafts announcement Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hello, A new version of the Internet-draft named "Source Discovery Protocol in SSM Networks" is available in two formats on : http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-03.html http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-03.txt Changes : 1- The protocol is pure soft-state now, ON messages are periodic. deleted ON_ACK and OFF_ACK mechanisms and Message Acknowledgement section 2- Modified the ASM over SSM emulation states according to 1. 3- clarifications on what is a "controller". Hoerdt Micka=EBl LSIIT-Strasbourg _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Jul 4 06:44:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA22850 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YO35-0000Wi-1A for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:44:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h64AiFNo002018 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:44:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YO34-0000WT-T5 for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:44:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA22808 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:44:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19YO30-00047Q-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:44:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19YO30-00047M-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:44:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YO2r-0000Uy-7w; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:44:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19YO23-0000UL-9L for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:43:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA22779 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19YO1z-00046V-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:43:07 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19YO1y-00046S-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:43:06 -0400 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h64Ah5qL032454; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:43:06 +0200 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:43:13 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Hoerdt?= To: mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu cc: wg-multicast@internet2.edu, ssm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Re: Multi-source in SSM networks Drafts announcement Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hello, A new version of the Internet-draft named "Source Discovery Protocol in SSM Networks" is available in two formats on : http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-03.html http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~hoerdt/draft-beck-mboned-ssm-source-discovery= -protocol-03.txt Changes : 1- The protocol is pure soft-state now, ON messages are periodic. deleted ON_ACK and OFF_ACK mechanisms and Message Acknowledgement section 2- Modified the ASM over SSM emulation states according to 1. 3- clarifications on what is a "controller". Hoerdt Micka=EBl LSIIT-Strasbourg _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Tue Jul 15 11:52:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25019 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19cS5x-0004gE-OW; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19cS5m-0004fs-CP for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:51:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25002 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19cS5l-00038R-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:51:49 -0400 Received: from astrolabe.info.ucl.ac.be ([130.104.229.109] helo=info.ucl.ac.be) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19cS5a-000386-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:51:38 -0400 Received: from chirico.info.ucl.ac.be (chirico [130.104.229.56]) by info.ucl.ac.be (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6FFnHYb006805 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:49:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (xbr@localhost) by chirico.info.ucl.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA12534 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:49:14 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: chirico.info.ucl.ac.be: xbr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:49:01 +0200 (MEST) From: Xavier Brouckaert To: ssm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [ssm] Detail about draft-ietf-pim-sm-v2-new-07.txt Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, A small detail about the latest PIM-SM draft : In section 4.1.4 called "(S,G) State", a mention of the UpstreamSGState(S,G) that should be maintained in the "*Not* interface specific" subsection is missing. (There is a mention of the DownstreamJPState(S,G,I) in the "Interface specific" subsection renamed "PIM (S,G) Join/Prune state") Is this true or am I wrong ? I just wanted to be sure to fully understand the draft, Xavier Brouckaert _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 15 11:52:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25037 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19cS6D-0004hd-8l for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:17 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6FFqHU2018071 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19cS6D-0004hO-3L for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25014 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19cS6B-00038e-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:15 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19cS66-00038Z-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19cS5x-0004gE-OW; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19cS5m-0004fs-CP for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:51:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25002 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19cS5l-00038R-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:51:49 -0400 Received: from astrolabe.info.ucl.ac.be ([130.104.229.109] helo=info.ucl.ac.be) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19cS5a-000386-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:51:38 -0400 Received: from chirico.info.ucl.ac.be (chirico [130.104.229.56]) by info.ucl.ac.be (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6FFnHYb006805 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:49:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (xbr@localhost) by chirico.info.ucl.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA12534 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:49:14 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: chirico.info.ucl.ac.be: xbr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:49:01 +0200 (MEST) From: Xavier Brouckaert To: ssm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [ssm] Detail about draft-ietf-pim-sm-v2-new-07.txt Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, A small detail about the latest PIM-SM draft : In section 4.1.4 called "(S,G) State", a mention of the UpstreamSGState(S,G) that should be maintained in the "*Not* interface specific" subsection is missing. (There is a mention of the DownstreamJPState(S,G,I) in the "Interface specific" subsection renamed "PIM (S,G) Join/Prune state") Is this true or am I wrong ? I just wanted to be sure to fully understand the draft, Xavier Brouckaert _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 17 10:27:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09028 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19d9in-0004FT-7X; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19d9hu-0004FA-Rs for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:26:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08989 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19d9hs-0006mH-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:26:04 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19d9hh-0006lo-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:25:54 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Jul 2003 07:29:41 -0700 Received: from cisco.com (cypher.cisco.com [171.69.11.143]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6HEOruJ015918; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eckert@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id HAA26819; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:24:53 -0700 From: Toerless Eckert To: Dino Farinacci Cc: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu, ssm@ietf.org Message-ID: <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> References: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [ssm] Re: your mail Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:07:39AM -0700, Dino Farinacci wrote: > >> So, What is missing from IPv4 SSM today apart from a deployment effort > >> today ? > > Nothing. Ok, let's see if you would consider all of the below to be deployment. I would consider most of this to be development, not deployment. Anyhow, the list isn't short. Technologies: - Source redundancy solutions for SSM channels. - Check wether all transport/session and higher level IETF specifications that carry group addresses can also carry source addresses (eg: SDP source filter extensions). Finalization of RTCP for SSM solutions. Standards: - A good understanding how to do SSM within other than the global scope (eg: something like an informational recommendation on how to do SSM within 239/8) - A nice application side solution (standard, + freely available implementation) to emulate ASM on top of SSM. The final goal for that would be something like: put that emulation into OS kernels so that ASM applications do not need to be modified. - Finalization of all open drafts into RFCs so that anybody working on actual standards basedd application solutions can start to use SSM. Hint: Standards based application solutions tend to NOT refer to any technologies unless they are specified in finalized documents, eg: RFCs (see discussions in DVB or other application organizations - if that's how it can be called). Development: - Lots of key implementations: - IGMPv3 support in switches, both basic and full IGMPv3 snooping (basic is a term i use for per-MAC address filtering, whereas full IGMPv3 snooping does per (S,G) IP address filtering). - IGMPv3 host stacks: MacOS, Set Top Boxes, Solaris - Any commercial applications beside WIndows Media and IP/TV (what other commercial applications support SSM ?) No EPG software in STBs supports SSM, - Implementations of IGMPv3 router side in router vendors other than C,J,P - does N support it ? How about E and F ? ... Deployment wise (as i define deployment): - Waiting for more than 40% of users to migrate to OSs supporting IGMPV3/SSM. - Persuading enterprise networks to consistently upgrade edge routers to enable IGMPv3. And this all does not cover transition solutions that may be necessary to move forwards faster than being blocked on any of these problems. Cheers Toerless _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 17 10:27:44 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09060 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19d9j4-0004Iq-5V for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6HERIkS016537 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:18 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19d9j3-0004Ie-Vb for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09007 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19d9j1-0006mX-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:15 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19d9iv-0006mS-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19d9in-0004FT-7X; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:27:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19d9hu-0004FA-Rs for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:26:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08989 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19d9hs-0006mH-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:26:04 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19d9hh-0006lo-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:25:54 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Jul 2003 07:29:41 -0700 Received: from cisco.com (cypher.cisco.com [171.69.11.143]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6HEOruJ015918; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eckert@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id HAA26819; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:24:53 -0700 From: Toerless Eckert To: Dino Farinacci Cc: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu, ssm@ietf.org Message-ID: <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> References: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [ssm] Re: your mail Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:07:39AM -0700, Dino Farinacci wrote: > >> So, What is missing from IPv4 SSM today apart from a deployment effort > >> today ? > > Nothing. Ok, let's see if you would consider all of the below to be deployment. I would consider most of this to be development, not deployment. Anyhow, the list isn't short. Technologies: - Source redundancy solutions for SSM channels. - Check wether all transport/session and higher level IETF specifications that carry group addresses can also carry source addresses (eg: SDP source filter extensions). Finalization of RTCP for SSM solutions. Standards: - A good understanding how to do SSM within other than the global scope (eg: something like an informational recommendation on how to do SSM within 239/8) - A nice application side solution (standard, + freely available implementation) to emulate ASM on top of SSM. The final goal for that would be something like: put that emulation into OS kernels so that ASM applications do not need to be modified. - Finalization of all open drafts into RFCs so that anybody working on actual standards basedd application solutions can start to use SSM. Hint: Standards based application solutions tend to NOT refer to any technologies unless they are specified in finalized documents, eg: RFCs (see discussions in DVB or other application organizations - if that's how it can be called). Development: - Lots of key implementations: - IGMPv3 support in switches, both basic and full IGMPv3 snooping (basic is a term i use for per-MAC address filtering, whereas full IGMPv3 snooping does per (S,G) IP address filtering). - IGMPv3 host stacks: MacOS, Set Top Boxes, Solaris - Any commercial applications beside WIndows Media and IP/TV (what other commercial applications support SSM ?) No EPG software in STBs supports SSM, - Implementations of IGMPv3 router side in router vendors other than C,J,P - does N support it ? How about E and F ? ... Deployment wise (as i define deployment): - Waiting for more than 40% of users to migrate to OSs supporting IGMPV3/SSM. - Persuading enterprise networks to consistently upgrade edge routers to enable IGMPv3. And this all does not cover transition solutions that may be necessary to move forwards faster than being blocked on any of these problems. Cheers Toerless _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 17 11:08:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10925 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAMS-00079n-Uf; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAMD-00076Y-Ii for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:07:45 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.44.193]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10885 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) From: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h6HF2VnY017553; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:02:31 +0200 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:06:18 +0200 (CEST) To: Toerless Eckert cc: Dino Farinacci , mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu, ssm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> Message-ID: References: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Re: your mail Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Well, it sounds like there is a long road before the SSM internet really happend. But I dont really agree with all these points because they mix different prob. together. On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Toerless Eckert wrote: > On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:07:39AM -0700, Dino Farinacci wrote: > > >> So, What is missing from IPv4 SSM today apart from a deployment effo= rt > > >> today ? > > > > Nothing. > > Ok, let's see if you would consider all of the below to be deployment. > I would consider most of this to be development, not deployment. Anyhow, > the list isn't short. > > Technologies: > > - Source redundancy solutions for SSM channels. Not really required for SSM deployment, I see it as an SSM "enhancement". As a normal user, I do not need to have redundant node at home. > > - Check wether all transport/session and higher level IETF specifications > that carry group addresses can also carry source addresses (eg: > SDP source filter extensions). Finalization of RTCP for SSM solutions. This is an application problem, is really the network waiting for application/session protocols to SSM aware ? If MMUSIC is waiting for the network to be SSM too , we are in big trouble (see Chicken && egg) > > Standards: > > - A good understanding how to do SSM within other than the global > scope (eg: something like an informational recommendation on how > to do SSM within 239/8) I want SSM, and I want it all over the Internet. In my mind, scoping is another SSM "enhancement". > > - A nice application side solution (standard, + freely available implemen= tation) > to emulate ASM on top of SSM. The final goal for that would be somethin= g like: > put that emulation into OS kernels so that ASM applications do not need > to be modified. I agree. But will the typical application/middleware writer wait or not for the SSM to be deployed before writing this emulation part ? Again, this is needed, but right now, this is not needed for SSM deployment in the network. > > - Finalization of all open drafts into RFCs so that anybody working > on actual standards basedd application solutions can start to use SSM. > Hint: Standards based application solutions tend to NOT refer to > any technologies unless they are specified in finalized documents, > eg: RFCs (see discussions in DVB or other application organizations - > if that's how it can be called). Igmpv3 is implemented in the most used operating system in the world. SSM is implemented in the most used IP routers in the world. Again, If applications writers are waiting for the network to be SSM and the network is waiting for the applications, we can wait a long long time before something happens. > > Development: > > - Lots of key implementations: > - IGMPv3 support in switches, both basic and full IGMPv3 snooping > (basic is a term i use for per-MAC address filtering, whereas > full IGMPv3 snooping does per (S,G) IP address filtering). Right. But is igmpv3 snooping a major deployment obstacle for SSM ? if it is really the case, it's and "Multicast Last Mile" Prob. and do not prevent the backbone to be "SSM". > - IGMPv3 host stacks: MacOS, Set Top Boxes, Solaris I really do not agree again. Are we all waiting for the magic point of deployment and say : "Is everybody ready ? OK tomorrow we will switch the Internet and it will be SSM" I think that we need a deployment plan exactly as in IPv6, not only concerning the Last mile but concerning Internet. > - Any commercial applications beside WIndows Media and IP/TV > (what other commercial applications support SSM ?) No EPG software > in STBs supports SSM, Same as above, it's an application pb. not an network pb. > - Implementations of IGMPv3 router side in router vendors > other than C,J,P - does N support it ? How about E and F ? ... > > Deployment wise (as i define deployment): > - Waiting for more than 40% of users to migrate to OSs supporting > IGMPV3/SSM. > - Persuading enterprise networks to consistently upgrade edge routers > to enable IGMPv3. The network do not have to wait for user to put new service into it. The pb is that these 40% of users do not know what multicast over IP is. Entreprise networks are generally on the edge of Internet. > > And this all does not cover transition solutions that may be necessary > to move forwards faster than being blocked on any of these problems. OK. So, Is the Internet core backbone SSM enabled ? Hoerdt Micka=EBl > > Cheers > =09Toerless > _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 17 11:08:57 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10952 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAMz-0007Fb-0v for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:33 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6HF8XIg027871 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAMy-0007FS-Ty for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:32 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10919 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAMS-00079n-Uf; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAMD-00076Y-Ii for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:07:45 -0400 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.44.193]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10885 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) From: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (clarinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.157]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h6HF2VnY017553; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:02:31 +0200 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:06:18 +0200 (CEST) To: Toerless Eckert cc: Dino Farinacci , mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu, ssm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> Message-ID: References: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [ssm] Re: your mail Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Well, it sounds like there is a long road before the SSM internet really happend. But I dont really agree with all these points because they mix different prob. together. On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Toerless Eckert wrote: > On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:07:39AM -0700, Dino Farinacci wrote: > > >> So, What is missing from IPv4 SSM today apart from a deployment effo= rt > > >> today ? > > > > Nothing. > > Ok, let's see if you would consider all of the below to be deployment. > I would consider most of this to be development, not deployment. Anyhow, > the list isn't short. > > Technologies: > > - Source redundancy solutions for SSM channels. Not really required for SSM deployment, I see it as an SSM "enhancement". As a normal user, I do not need to have redundant node at home. > > - Check wether all transport/session and higher level IETF specifications > that carry group addresses can also carry source addresses (eg: > SDP source filter extensions). Finalization of RTCP for SSM solutions. This is an application problem, is really the network waiting for application/session protocols to SSM aware ? If MMUSIC is waiting for the network to be SSM too , we are in big trouble (see Chicken && egg) > > Standards: > > - A good understanding how to do SSM within other than the global > scope (eg: something like an informational recommendation on how > to do SSM within 239/8) I want SSM, and I want it all over the Internet. In my mind, scoping is another SSM "enhancement". > > - A nice application side solution (standard, + freely available implemen= tation) > to emulate ASM on top of SSM. The final goal for that would be somethin= g like: > put that emulation into OS kernels so that ASM applications do not need > to be modified. I agree. But will the typical application/middleware writer wait or not for the SSM to be deployed before writing this emulation part ? Again, this is needed, but right now, this is not needed for SSM deployment in the network. > > - Finalization of all open drafts into RFCs so that anybody working > on actual standards basedd application solutions can start to use SSM. > Hint: Standards based application solutions tend to NOT refer to > any technologies unless they are specified in finalized documents, > eg: RFCs (see discussions in DVB or other application organizations - > if that's how it can be called). Igmpv3 is implemented in the most used operating system in the world. SSM is implemented in the most used IP routers in the world. Again, If applications writers are waiting for the network to be SSM and the network is waiting for the applications, we can wait a long long time before something happens. > > Development: > > - Lots of key implementations: > - IGMPv3 support in switches, both basic and full IGMPv3 snooping > (basic is a term i use for per-MAC address filtering, whereas > full IGMPv3 snooping does per (S,G) IP address filtering). Right. But is igmpv3 snooping a major deployment obstacle for SSM ? if it is really the case, it's and "Multicast Last Mile" Prob. and do not prevent the backbone to be "SSM". > - IGMPv3 host stacks: MacOS, Set Top Boxes, Solaris I really do not agree again. Are we all waiting for the magic point of deployment and say : "Is everybody ready ? OK tomorrow we will switch the Internet and it will be SSM" I think that we need a deployment plan exactly as in IPv6, not only concerning the Last mile but concerning Internet. > - Any commercial applications beside WIndows Media and IP/TV > (what other commercial applications support SSM ?) No EPG software > in STBs supports SSM, Same as above, it's an application pb. not an network pb. > - Implementations of IGMPv3 router side in router vendors > other than C,J,P - does N support it ? How about E and F ? ... > > Deployment wise (as i define deployment): > - Waiting for more than 40% of users to migrate to OSs supporting > IGMPV3/SSM. > - Persuading enterprise networks to consistently upgrade edge routers > to enable IGMPv3. The network do not have to wait for user to put new service into it. The pb is that these 40% of users do not know what multicast over IP is. Entreprise networks are generally on the edge of Internet. > > And this all does not cover transition solutions that may be necessary > to move forwards faster than being blocked on any of these problems. OK. So, Is the Internet core backbone SSM enabled ? Hoerdt Micka=EBl > > Cheers > =09Toerless > _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 17 11:09:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11040 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dANQ-0007I7-Sy; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAMd-0007Bb-Qs for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10910 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAMb-00074S-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:09 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAMQ-00072U-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:07:58 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (cypher.cisco.com [171.69.11.143]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6HF4OuD009064; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eckert@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id IAA05486; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:04:24 -0700 From: Toerless Eckert To: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr Cc: Toerless Eckert , Dino Farinacci , mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu, ssm@ietf.org Message-ID: <20030717150424.GH23110@cypher.cisco.com> References: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA10911 Subject: [ssm] Re: your mail Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 05:06:18PM +0200, hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr wr= ote: > Well, it sounds like there is a long road before the SSM internet reall= y > happend. But I dont really agree with all these points because they > mix different prob. together. Please be more specific. Sure, it's a laundry list, sure you can get lots of SSM deployments with just some of these points being tackled, but if you want to have all applications that could use SSM to actually be able to use SSM, then you will likely need to tackle all these points. >=20 > On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > > On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:07:39AM -0700, Dino Farinacci wrote: > > > >> So, What is missing from IPv4 SSM today apart from a deployment = effort > > > >> today ? > > > > > > Nothing. > > > > Ok, let's see if you would consider all of the below to be deployment. > > I would consider most of this to be development, not deployment. Anyh= ow, > > the list isn't short. > > > > Technologies: > > > > - Source redundancy solutions for SSM channels. >=20 > Not really required for SSM deployment, I see it as an SSM "enhancement= ". > As a normal user, I do not need to have redundant node at home. >=20 > > > > - Check wether all transport/session and higher level IETF specificat= ions > > that carry group addresses can also carry source addresses (eg: > > SDP source filter extensions). Finalization of RTCP for SSM solutio= ns. >=20 > This is an application problem, is really the network waiting for > application/session protocols to SSM aware ? If MMUSIC is waiting for > the network to be SSM too , we are in big trouble (see Chicken && egg) >=20 >=20 > > > > Standards: > > > > - A good understanding how to do SSM within other than the global > > scope (eg: something like an informational recommendation on how > > to do SSM within 239/8) >=20 > I want SSM, and I want it all over the Internet. In my mind, scoping > is another SSM "enhancement". >=20 >=20 > > > > - A nice application side solution (standard, + freely available impl= ementation) > > to emulate ASM on top of SSM. The final goal for that would be some= thing like: > > put that emulation into OS kernels so that ASM applications do not = need > > to be modified. >=20 > I agree. But will the typical application/middleware writer wait or no= t > for the SSM to be deployed before writing this emulation part ? Again, > this is needed, but right now, this is not needed for SSM deployment in > the network. >=20 > > > > - Finalization of all open drafts into RFCs so that anybody working > > on actual standards basedd application solutions can start to use S= SM. > > Hint: Standards based application solutions tend to NOT refer to > > any technologies unless they are specified in finalized documents, > > eg: RFCs (see discussions in DVB or other application organizations= - > > if that's how it can be called). >=20 > Igmpv3 is implemented in the most used operating system in the world. > SSM is implemented in the most used IP routers in the world. Again, If > applications writers are waiting for the network to be SSM and the netw= ork > is waiting for the applications, we can wait a long long time before > something happens. >=20 >=20 > > > > Development: > > > > - Lots of key implementations: > > - IGMPv3 support in switches, both basic and full IGMPv3 snooping > > (basic is a term i use for per-MAC address filtering, whereas > > full IGMPv3 snooping does per (S,G) IP address filtering). >=20 > Right. But is igmpv3 snooping a major deployment obstacle for SSM ? if > it is really the case, it's and "Multicast Last Mile" Prob. and do not > prevent the backbone to be "SSM". >=20 >=20 > > - IGMPv3 host stacks: MacOS, Set Top Boxes, Solaris >=20 > I really do not agree again. Are we all waiting for the magic point of > deployment and say : "Is everybody ready ? OK tomorrow we will switch t= he > Internet and it will be SSM" I think that we need a deployment plan > exactly as in IPv6, not only concerning the Last mile but concerning > Internet. >=20 > > - Any commercial applications beside WIndows Media and IP/TV > > (what other commercial applications support SSM ?) No EPG softwar= e > > in STBs supports SSM, >=20 > Same as above, it's an application pb. not an network pb. >=20 > > - Implementations of IGMPv3 router side in router vendors > > other than C,J,P - does N support it ? How about E and F ? ... > > > > Deployment wise (as i define deployment): > > - Waiting for more than 40% of users to migrate to OSs supporting > > IGMPV3/SSM. > > - Persuading enterprise networks to consistently upgrade edge route= rs > > to enable IGMPv3. >=20 > The network do not have to wait for user to put new service into it. Th= e > pb is that these 40% of users do not know what multicast over IP is. > Entreprise networks are generally on the edge of Internet. >=20 > > > > And this all does not cover transition solutions that may be necessar= y > > to move forwards faster than being blocked on any of these problems. >=20 > OK. So, Is the Internet core backbone SSM enabled ? >=20 > Hoerdt Micka=EBl >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > --=20 Thanks Toerless Eckert =20 _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 17 11:10:00 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11077 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dANz-0007N2-8s for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:35 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6HF9ZLr028326 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dANz-0007Mn-5l for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:35 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11041 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dANQ-0007I7-Sy; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:09:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAMd-0007Bb-Qs for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10910 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAMb-00074S-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:08:09 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAMQ-00072U-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:07:58 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (cypher.cisco.com [171.69.11.143]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6HF4OuD009064; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eckert@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id IAA05486; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:04:24 -0700 From: Toerless Eckert To: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr Cc: Toerless Eckert , Dino Farinacci , mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu, ssm@ietf.org Message-ID: <20030717150424.GH23110@cypher.cisco.com> References: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA10911 Subject: [ssm] Re: your mail Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 05:06:18PM +0200, hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr wr= ote: > Well, it sounds like there is a long road before the SSM internet reall= y > happend. But I dont really agree with all these points because they > mix different prob. together. Please be more specific. Sure, it's a laundry list, sure you can get lots of SSM deployments with just some of these points being tackled, but if you want to have all applications that could use SSM to actually be able to use SSM, then you will likely need to tackle all these points. >=20 > On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > > On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:07:39AM -0700, Dino Farinacci wrote: > > > >> So, What is missing from IPv4 SSM today apart from a deployment = effort > > > >> today ? > > > > > > Nothing. > > > > Ok, let's see if you would consider all of the below to be deployment. > > I would consider most of this to be development, not deployment. Anyh= ow, > > the list isn't short. > > > > Technologies: > > > > - Source redundancy solutions for SSM channels. >=20 > Not really required for SSM deployment, I see it as an SSM "enhancement= ". > As a normal user, I do not need to have redundant node at home. >=20 > > > > - Check wether all transport/session and higher level IETF specificat= ions > > that carry group addresses can also carry source addresses (eg: > > SDP source filter extensions). Finalization of RTCP for SSM solutio= ns. >=20 > This is an application problem, is really the network waiting for > application/session protocols to SSM aware ? If MMUSIC is waiting for > the network to be SSM too , we are in big trouble (see Chicken && egg) >=20 >=20 > > > > Standards: > > > > - A good understanding how to do SSM within other than the global > > scope (eg: something like an informational recommendation on how > > to do SSM within 239/8) >=20 > I want SSM, and I want it all over the Internet. In my mind, scoping > is another SSM "enhancement". >=20 >=20 > > > > - A nice application side solution (standard, + freely available impl= ementation) > > to emulate ASM on top of SSM. The final goal for that would be some= thing like: > > put that emulation into OS kernels so that ASM applications do not = need > > to be modified. >=20 > I agree. But will the typical application/middleware writer wait or no= t > for the SSM to be deployed before writing this emulation part ? Again, > this is needed, but right now, this is not needed for SSM deployment in > the network. >=20 > > > > - Finalization of all open drafts into RFCs so that anybody working > > on actual standards basedd application solutions can start to use S= SM. > > Hint: Standards based application solutions tend to NOT refer to > > any technologies unless they are specified in finalized documents, > > eg: RFCs (see discussions in DVB or other application organizations= - > > if that's how it can be called). >=20 > Igmpv3 is implemented in the most used operating system in the world. > SSM is implemented in the most used IP routers in the world. Again, If > applications writers are waiting for the network to be SSM and the netw= ork > is waiting for the applications, we can wait a long long time before > something happens. >=20 >=20 > > > > Development: > > > > - Lots of key implementations: > > - IGMPv3 support in switches, both basic and full IGMPv3 snooping > > (basic is a term i use for per-MAC address filtering, whereas > > full IGMPv3 snooping does per (S,G) IP address filtering). >=20 > Right. But is igmpv3 snooping a major deployment obstacle for SSM ? if > it is really the case, it's and "Multicast Last Mile" Prob. and do not > prevent the backbone to be "SSM". >=20 >=20 > > - IGMPv3 host stacks: MacOS, Set Top Boxes, Solaris >=20 > I really do not agree again. Are we all waiting for the magic point of > deployment and say : "Is everybody ready ? OK tomorrow we will switch t= he > Internet and it will be SSM" I think that we need a deployment plan > exactly as in IPv6, not only concerning the Last mile but concerning > Internet. >=20 > > - Any commercial applications beside WIndows Media and IP/TV > > (what other commercial applications support SSM ?) No EPG softwar= e > > in STBs supports SSM, >=20 > Same as above, it's an application pb. not an network pb. >=20 > > - Implementations of IGMPv3 router side in router vendors > > other than C,J,P - does N support it ? How about E and F ? ... > > > > Deployment wise (as i define deployment): > > - Waiting for more than 40% of users to migrate to OSs supporting > > IGMPV3/SSM. > > - Persuading enterprise networks to consistently upgrade edge route= rs > > to enable IGMPv3. >=20 > The network do not have to wait for user to put new service into it. Th= e > pb is that these 40% of users do not know what multicast over IP is. > Entreprise networks are generally on the edge of Internet. >=20 > > > > And this all does not cover transition solutions that may be necessar= y > > to move forwards faster than being blocked on any of these problems. >=20 > OK. So, Is the Internet core backbone SSM enabled ? >=20 > Hoerdt Micka=EBl >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > --=20 Thanks Toerless Eckert =20 _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 17 11:37:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11744 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAoX-0000SH-GX; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAoK-0000Rc-TS for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11692 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAoJ-0007G2-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:47 -0400 Received: from lennon.multicasttech.com ([63.105.122.7] helo=multicasttech.com ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAo9-0007Fs-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:37 -0400 Received: from [81.160.237.7] (account ) by multicasttech.com (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.4.8) with HTTP id 1714280; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:04 -0400 From: "Marshall Eubanks" Subject: Re: [ssm] Re: your mail To: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, Toerless Eckert Cc: Dino Farinacci , mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu, ssm@ietf.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:04 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA11693 Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:06:18 +0200 (CEST) hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr wrote: > Well, it sounds like there is a long road before the SSM internet reall= y > happend. But I dont really agree with all these points because they > mix different prob. together. >=20 > On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > > On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:07:39AM -0700, Dino Farinacci wrote: > > > >> So, What is missing from IPv4 SSM today apart from a deployment = effort > > > >> today ? > > > > > > Nothing. > > > > Ok, let's see if you would consider all of the below to be deployment. > > I would consider most of this to be development, not deployment. Anyh= ow, > > the list isn't short. > > > > Technologies: > > > > - Source redundancy solutions for SSM channels. >=20 > Not really required for SSM deployment, I see it as an SSM "enhancement= ". > As a normal user, I do not need to have redundant node at home. >=20 > > > > - Check wether all transport/session and higher level IETF specificat= ions > > that carry group addresses can also carry source addresses (eg: > > SDP source filter extensions). Finalization of RTCP for SSM solutio= ns. >=20 > This is an application problem, is really the network waiting for > application/session protocols to SSM aware ? If MMUSIC is waiting for > the network to be SSM too , we are in big trouble (see Chicken && egg) >=20 >=20 > > > > Standards: > > > > - A good understanding how to do SSM within other than the global > > scope (eg: something like an informational recommendation on how > > to do SSM within 239/8) >=20 > I want SSM, and I want it all over the Internet. In my mind, scoping > is another SSM "enhancement". >=20 >=20 > > > > - A nice application side solution (standard, + freely available > implementation) > > to emulate ASM on top of SSM. The final goal for that would be some= thing > like: > > put that emulation into OS kernels so that ASM applications do not = need > > to be modified. >=20 > I agree. But will the typical application/middleware writer wait or no= t > for the SSM to be deployed before writing this emulation part ? Again, > this is needed, but right now, this is not needed for SSM deployment in > the network. >=20 > > > > - Finalization of all open drafts into RFCs so that anybody working > > on actual standards basedd application solutions can start to use S= SM. > > Hint: Standards based application solutions tend to NOT refer to > > any technologies unless they are specified in finalized documents, > > eg: RFCs (see discussions in DVB or other application organizations= - > > if that's how it can be called). >=20 > Igmpv3 is implemented in the most used operating system in the world. I am sorry, but this is simply not true. IGMPv3 is implemented in the mos= t recent _version_ of the most used operating system. This _version_ has a deployment in the few per cent range. It will be years before the avail= ability of IGMPv3 support in the OS (much less applications) can be assumed. Please do not throw away what has been acheived : IGMPv2 support is really ubiquitous in the OS. IGMPv2 support is really ubiquitous in applications. PIM support is pretty ubiquitous in routers. There is a substantial body of deployment experience in the Internet and with ISP's. There are a substantial number of enterprise uses of multicast. This level of support has taken a decade to acheive. To get SSM to the sa= me level IMHO will take another decade. Multicast deployment at present is maybe 100x's as extensive as IPv6. To = say that SSM should replace ASM sends the wrong message. To say that SSM will complement ASM and simplify xSM deployment is a much better message.=20 =20 Regards Marshall Eubanks > SSM is implemented in the most used IP routers in the world. Again, If > applications writers are waiting for the network to be SSM and the netw= ork > is waiting for the applications, we can wait a long long time before > something happens. >=20 >=20 > > > > Development: > > > > - Lots of key implementations: > > - IGMPv3 support in switches, both basic and full IGMPv3 snooping > > (basic is a term i use for per-MAC address filtering, whereas > > full IGMPv3 snooping does per (S,G) IP address filtering). >=20 > Right. But is igmpv3 snooping a major deployment obstacle for SSM ? if > it is really the case, it's and "Multicast Last Mile" Prob. and do not > prevent the backbone to be "SSM". >=20 >=20 > > - IGMPv3 host stacks: MacOS, Set Top Boxes, Solaris >=20 > I really do not agree again. Are we all waiting for the magic point of > deployment and say : "Is everybody ready ? OK tomorrow we will switch t= he > Internet and it will be SSM" I think that we need a deployment plan > exactly as in IPv6, not only concerning the Last mile but concerning > Internet. >=20 > > - Any commercial applications beside WIndows Media and IP/TV > > (what other commercial applications support SSM ?) No EPG softwar= e > > in STBs supports SSM, >=20 > Same as above, it's an application pb. not an network pb. >=20 > > - Implementations of IGMPv3 router side in router vendors > > other than C,J,P - does N support it ? How about E and F ? ... > > > > Deployment wise (as i define deployment): > > - Waiting for more than 40% of users to migrate to OSs supporting > > IGMPV3/SSM. > > - Persuading enterprise networks to consistently upgrade edge route= rs > > to enable IGMPv3. >=20 > The network do not have to wait for user to put new service into it. Th= e > pb is that these 40% of users do not know what multicast over IP is. > Entreprise networks are generally on the edge of Internet. >=20 > > > > And this all does not cover transition solutions that may be necessar= y > > to move forwards faster than being blocked on any of these problems. >=20 > OK. So, Is the Internet core backbone SSM enabled ? >=20 > Hoerdt Micka=EBl >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ssm mailing list > ssm@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 17 11:37:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11764 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAog-0000Wf-8y for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6HFbAMq002020 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAog-0000WV-1m for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11721 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAoe-0007GO-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAoZ-0007GL-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAoX-0000SH-GX; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:37:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAoK-0000Rc-TS for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11692 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAoJ-0007G2-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:47 -0400 Received: from lennon.multicasttech.com ([63.105.122.7] helo=multicasttech.com ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAo9-0007Fs-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:37 -0400 Received: from [81.160.237.7] (account ) by multicasttech.com (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.4.8) with HTTP id 1714280; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:04 -0400 From: "Marshall Eubanks" Subject: Re: [ssm] Re: your mail To: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, Toerless Eckert Cc: Dino Farinacci , mboned@network-services.uoregon.edu, ssm@ietf.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:36:04 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA11693 Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:06:18 +0200 (CEST) hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr wrote: > Well, it sounds like there is a long road before the SSM internet reall= y > happend. But I dont really agree with all these points because they > mix different prob. together. >=20 > On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > > On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:07:39AM -0700, Dino Farinacci wrote: > > > >> So, What is missing from IPv4 SSM today apart from a deployment = effort > > > >> today ? > > > > > > Nothing. > > > > Ok, let's see if you would consider all of the below to be deployment. > > I would consider most of this to be development, not deployment. Anyh= ow, > > the list isn't short. > > > > Technologies: > > > > - Source redundancy solutions for SSM channels. >=20 > Not really required for SSM deployment, I see it as an SSM "enhancement= ". > As a normal user, I do not need to have redundant node at home. >=20 > > > > - Check wether all transport/session and higher level IETF specificat= ions > > that carry group addresses can also carry source addresses (eg: > > SDP source filter extensions). Finalization of RTCP for SSM solutio= ns. >=20 > This is an application problem, is really the network waiting for > application/session protocols to SSM aware ? If MMUSIC is waiting for > the network to be SSM too , we are in big trouble (see Chicken && egg) >=20 >=20 > > > > Standards: > > > > - A good understanding how to do SSM within other than the global > > scope (eg: something like an informational recommendation on how > > to do SSM within 239/8) >=20 > I want SSM, and I want it all over the Internet. In my mind, scoping > is another SSM "enhancement". >=20 >=20 > > > > - A nice application side solution (standard, + freely available > implementation) > > to emulate ASM on top of SSM. The final goal for that would be some= thing > like: > > put that emulation into OS kernels so that ASM applications do not = need > > to be modified. >=20 > I agree. But will the typical application/middleware writer wait or no= t > for the SSM to be deployed before writing this emulation part ? Again, > this is needed, but right now, this is not needed for SSM deployment in > the network. >=20 > > > > - Finalization of all open drafts into RFCs so that anybody working > > on actual standards basedd application solutions can start to use S= SM. > > Hint: Standards based application solutions tend to NOT refer to > > any technologies unless they are specified in finalized documents, > > eg: RFCs (see discussions in DVB or other application organizations= - > > if that's how it can be called). >=20 > Igmpv3 is implemented in the most used operating system in the world. I am sorry, but this is simply not true. IGMPv3 is implemented in the mos= t recent _version_ of the most used operating system. This _version_ has a deployment in the few per cent range. It will be years before the avail= ability of IGMPv3 support in the OS (much less applications) can be assumed. Please do not throw away what has been acheived : IGMPv2 support is really ubiquitous in the OS. IGMPv2 support is really ubiquitous in applications. PIM support is pretty ubiquitous in routers. There is a substantial body of deployment experience in the Internet and with ISP's. There are a substantial number of enterprise uses of multicast. This level of support has taken a decade to acheive. To get SSM to the sa= me level IMHO will take another decade. Multicast deployment at present is maybe 100x's as extensive as IPv6. To = say that SSM should replace ASM sends the wrong message. To say that SSM will complement ASM and simplify xSM deployment is a much better message.=20 =20 Regards Marshall Eubanks > SSM is implemented in the most used IP routers in the world. Again, If > applications writers are waiting for the network to be SSM and the netw= ork > is waiting for the applications, we can wait a long long time before > something happens. >=20 >=20 > > > > Development: > > > > - Lots of key implementations: > > - IGMPv3 support in switches, both basic and full IGMPv3 snooping > > (basic is a term i use for per-MAC address filtering, whereas > > full IGMPv3 snooping does per (S,G) IP address filtering). >=20 > Right. But is igmpv3 snooping a major deployment obstacle for SSM ? if > it is really the case, it's and "Multicast Last Mile" Prob. and do not > prevent the backbone to be "SSM". >=20 >=20 > > - IGMPv3 host stacks: MacOS, Set Top Boxes, Solaris >=20 > I really do not agree again. Are we all waiting for the magic point of > deployment and say : "Is everybody ready ? OK tomorrow we will switch t= he > Internet and it will be SSM" I think that we need a deployment plan > exactly as in IPv6, not only concerning the Last mile but concerning > Internet. >=20 > > - Any commercial applications beside WIndows Media and IP/TV > > (what other commercial applications support SSM ?) No EPG softwar= e > > in STBs supports SSM, >=20 > Same as above, it's an application pb. not an network pb. >=20 > > - Implementations of IGMPv3 router side in router vendors > > other than C,J,P - does N support it ? How about E and F ? ... > > > > Deployment wise (as i define deployment): > > - Waiting for more than 40% of users to migrate to OSs supporting > > IGMPV3/SSM. > > - Persuading enterprise networks to consistently upgrade edge route= rs > > to enable IGMPv3. >=20 > The network do not have to wait for user to put new service into it. Th= e > pb is that these 40% of users do not know what multicast over IP is. > Entreprise networks are generally on the edge of Internet. >=20 > > > > And this all does not cover transition solutions that may be necessar= y > > to move forwards faster than being blocked on any of these problems. >=20 > OK. So, Is the Internet core backbone SSM enabled ? >=20 > Hoerdt Micka=EBl >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ssm mailing list > ssm@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Thu Jul 17 11:46:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12047 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAxF-0001Ki-KI; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAwa-0001Io-Lm for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:45:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12020 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:45:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAwZ-0007Kk-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:45:19 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAwO-0007JM-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:45:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6HFhgN07517; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:43:42 +0300 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:43:42 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Marshall Eubanks cc: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, Toerless Eckert , Dino Farinacci , , Subject: Re: [ssm] Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Marshall Eubanks wrote: > Multicast deployment at present is maybe 100x's as extensive as IPv6. I'm not sure if I agre here.. > To say > that SSM should replace ASM sends the wrong message. To say that SSM will > complement ASM and simplify xSM deployment is a much better message. .. but this I completely agree with. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 17 11:46:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12065 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAxN-0001M9-KV for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6HFk9ot005207 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAxN-0001Lu-GC for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12035 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAxM-0007L9-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAxG-0007L6-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAxF-0001Ki-KI; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:46:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dAwa-0001Io-Lm for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:45:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12020 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:45:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAwZ-0007Kk-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:45:19 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19dAwO-0007JM-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:45:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6HFhgN07517; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:43:42 +0300 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:43:42 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Marshall Eubanks cc: hoerdt@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, Toerless Eckert , Dino Farinacci , , Subject: Re: [ssm] Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Marshall Eubanks wrote: > Multicast deployment at present is maybe 100x's as extensive as IPv6. I'm not sure if I agre here.. > To say > that SSM should replace ASM sends the wrong message. To say that SSM will > complement ASM and simplify xSM deployment is a much better message. .. but this I completely agree with. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Wed Jul 23 09:35:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12257 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fJll-0001Nz-Rd; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:35:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fJko-0001LW-Tz for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:34:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12205 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fJkm-0004hN-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:34:00 -0400 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fJkc-0004gk-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:33:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB6C7B50E for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic.internet2.edu (aa185.internet2.edu [207.75.164.185]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E4A7B501 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030723091825.0149c720@mail.internet2.edu> X-Sender: jzeeff@mail.internet2.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:31:08 -0400 To: ssm@ietf.org From: Jon Zeeff In-Reply-To: <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> References: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3257443==_.ALT" X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Subject: [ssm] Our ssm status Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=====================_3257443==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Here are some of the things we are working on SSM wise: 1) An automatic multicast tunnel that supports IGMPv3 and SSM. You load client software on to a Windows box and it automatically tunnels off to a Linux server to receive multicast via unicast. Hopefully this will encourage SSM adoption. More info at http://www.internet2.edu/~admytren 2) Use of SSM here is held up by the lack of IP Router Alert option in IGMP packets from our Juniper router. Apparently this causes Windows XP to ignore the packets. --=====================_3257443==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Here are some of the things we are working on SSM wise:


1) An automatic multicast tunnel that supports IGMPv3 and SSM.  You load client software on to
a Windows box and it automatically tunnels off to a Linux server to receive multicast via
unicast.  Hopefully this will encourage SSM adoption.  More info at http://www.internet2.edu/~admytren


2) Use of SSM here is held up by the lack of IP Router Alert option in IGMP packets from
our Juniper router.  Apparently this causes Windows XP to ignore the packets.


--=====================_3257443==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 23 09:36:04 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12291 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fJmK-0001RT-Ud for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:35:37 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6NDZahu005539 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:35:36 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fJmK-0001RG-R0 for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:35:36 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12258 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fJll-0001Nz-Rd; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:35:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fJko-0001LW-Tz for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:34:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12205 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fJkm-0004hN-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:34:00 -0400 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fJkc-0004gk-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:33:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB6C7B50E for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic.internet2.edu (aa185.internet2.edu [207.75.164.185]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E4A7B501 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030723091825.0149c720@mail.internet2.edu> X-Sender: jzeeff@mail.internet2.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:31:08 -0400 To: ssm@ietf.org From: Jon Zeeff In-Reply-To: <20030717142453.GC23110@cypher.cisco.com> References: <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> <200307171407.h6HE7doV015276@dino-pc.procket.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3257443==_.ALT" X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Subject: [ssm] Our ssm status Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=====================_3257443==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Here are some of the things we are working on SSM wise: 1) An automatic multicast tunnel that supports IGMPv3 and SSM. You load client software on to a Windows box and it automatically tunnels off to a Linux server to receive multicast via unicast. Hopefully this will encourage SSM adoption. More info at http://www.internet2.edu/~admytren 2) Use of SSM here is held up by the lack of IP Router Alert option in IGMP packets from our Juniper router. Apparently this causes Windows XP to ignore the packets. --=====================_3257443==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Here are some of the things we are working on SSM wise:


1) An automatic multicast tunnel that supports IGMPv3 and SSM.  You load client software on to
a Windows box and it automatically tunnels off to a Linux server to receive multicast via
unicast.  Hopefully this will encourage SSM adoption.  More info at http://www.internet2.edu/~admytren


2) Use of SSM here is held up by the lack of IP Router Alert option in IGMP packets from
our Juniper router.  Apparently this causes Windows XP to ignore the packets.


--=====================_3257443==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Wed Jul 23 13:29:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20474 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fNQC-0004cT-OJ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fNPp-0004ai-7b for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20449 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fNPn-0006J9-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:35 -0400 Received: from mail4.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.122]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fNPc-0006Iw-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:24 -0400 Received: from inet-vrs-04.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.8.149]) by mail4.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:27 -0700 Received: from 157.54.6.150 by inet-vrs-04.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:31 -0700 Received: from red-imc-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.9.102]) by inet-hub-05.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:28 -0700 Received: from win-imc-01.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.0.39]) by red-imc-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:28 -0700 Received: from WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.81]) by win-imc-01.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:24 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ssm] Our ssm status Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:29 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [ssm] Our ssm status Thread-Index: AcNRH03nPmUDyyfFQVW47M4EC/gyzwAH42QQ From: "Dave Thaler" To: "Jon Zeeff" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2003 17:27:24.0920 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE844780:01C3513F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jon Zeeff writes: > 2) Use of SSM here is held up by the lack of IP Router Alert > option in IGMP packets from our Juniper router.=A0 Apparently ] > this causes Windows XP to ignore the packets. Right. This is per the IGMPv3 RFC, and hence should be true for any IGMPv3 host, not just XP. =20 Section 4 says:=20 > Every IGMP message described in this document ... > carries an IP Router Alert option [RFC-2113] in its IP header. Section 9 says: > o Hosts SHOULD ignore v2 or v3 Queries without the Router-Alert > option. -Dave _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 23 13:29:51 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20493 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fNQY-0004fF-Ie for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:23 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6NHTMgl017929 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fNQY-0004f6-Fq for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20463 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fNQW-0006JW-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fNQQ-0006JI-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fNQC-0004cT-OJ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fNPp-0004ai-7b for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20449 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fNPn-0006J9-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:35 -0400 Received: from mail4.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.122]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fNPc-0006Iw-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:24 -0400 Received: from inet-vrs-04.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.8.149]) by mail4.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:27 -0700 Received: from 157.54.6.150 by inet-vrs-04.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:31 -0700 Received: from red-imc-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.9.102]) by inet-hub-05.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:28 -0700 Received: from win-imc-01.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.0.39]) by red-imc-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:28 -0700 Received: from WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.81]) by win-imc-01.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:24 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ssm] Our ssm status Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:29 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [ssm] Our ssm status Thread-Index: AcNRH03nPmUDyyfFQVW47M4EC/gyzwAH42QQ From: "Dave Thaler" To: "Jon Zeeff" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2003 17:27:24.0920 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE844780:01C3513F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jon Zeeff writes: > 2) Use of SSM here is held up by the lack of IP Router Alert > option in IGMP packets from our Juniper router.=A0 Apparently ] > this causes Windows XP to ignore the packets. Right. This is per the IGMPv3 RFC, and hence should be true for any IGMPv3 host, not just XP. =20 Section 4 says:=20 > Every IGMP message described in this document ... > carries an IP Router Alert option [RFC-2113] in its IP header. Section 9 says: > o Hosts SHOULD ignore v2 or v3 Queries without the Router-Alert > option. -Dave _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From ssm-admin@ietf.org Wed Jul 23 17:21:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03281 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fR2i-0007br-NC; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:21:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fR1l-0007av-T8 for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:20:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03262 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fR1j-0000us-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:59 -0400 Received: from natint.juniper.net ([207.17.136.129] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fR1Y-0000u5-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:48 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h6NLIou00217; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pusateri@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200307232118.h6NLIou00217@merlot.juniper.net> To: "Dave Thaler" cc: "Jon Zeeff" , ssm@ietf.org, pusateri@juniper.net Subject: Re: [ssm] Our ssm status In-Reply-To: Message from "Dave Thaler" of "Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:29 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <87579.1058995130.1@juniper.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:18:50 -0700 From: Tom Pusateri Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, the reason this probably happened is that the Juniper code pre-dates the RFC and the intent of the router alert was for packets going to group addresses that would be forwarded through the router. Therefore, the group specific queries are the only queries that really need the router alert. General queries go to the 224.0.0.1 group which the hosts should really accept regardless of the router alert option. I think the RFC is wrong here and I think Microsoft is wrong for dropping these but we'll be glad to conform for the good of the 'net and provide an update. Thanks, Tom In message you write: >Jon Zeeff writes: >> 2) Use of SSM here is held up by the lack of IP Router Alert >> option in IGMP packets from our Juniper router.=A0 Apparently ] >> this causes Windows XP to ignore the packets. > >Right. This is per the IGMPv3 RFC, and hence should be true for >any IGMPv3 host, not just XP. = > >Section 4 says: = >> Every IGMP message described in this document ... >> carries an IP Router Alert option [RFC-2113] in its IP header. > >Section 9 says: >> o Hosts SHOULD ignore v2 or v3 Queries without the Router-Alert >> option. > >-Dave > >_______________________________________________ >ssm mailing list >ssm@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm > _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 23 17:25:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03451 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fR6u-0007r8-OM for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:25:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6NLPKb7030188 for ssm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:25:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fR6u-0007qo-4L for ssm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:25:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03419 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fR6r-0000x9-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:25:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fR6j-0000vd-00 for ssm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:25:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fR2i-0007br-NC; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:21:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19fR1l-0007av-T8 for ssm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:20:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03262 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fR1j-0000us-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:59 -0400 Received: from natint.juniper.net ([207.17.136.129] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19fR1Y-0000u5-00 for ssm@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:48 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h6NLIou00217; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pusateri@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200307232118.h6NLIou00217@merlot.juniper.net> To: "Dave Thaler" cc: "Jon Zeeff" , ssm@ietf.org, pusateri@juniper.net Subject: Re: [ssm] Our ssm status In-Reply-To: Message from "Dave Thaler" of "Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:27:29 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <87579.1058995130.1@juniper.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:18:50 -0700 From: Tom Pusateri Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ssm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ssm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ssm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Source-Specific Multicast List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, the reason this probably happened is that the Juniper code pre-dates the RFC and the intent of the router alert was for packets going to group addresses that would be forwarded through the router. Therefore, the group specific queries are the only queries that really need the router alert. General queries go to the 224.0.0.1 group which the hosts should really accept regardless of the router alert option. I think the RFC is wrong here and I think Microsoft is wrong for dropping these but we'll be glad to conform for the good of the 'net and provide an update. Thanks, Tom In message you write: >Jon Zeeff writes: >> 2) Use of SSM here is held up by the lack of IP Router Alert >> option in IGMP packets from our Juniper router.=A0 Apparently ] >> this causes Windows XP to ignore the packets. > >Right. This is per the IGMPv3 RFC, and hence should be true for >any IGMPv3 host, not just XP. = > >Section 4 says: = >> Every IGMP message described in this document ... >> carries an IP Router Alert option [RFC-2113] in its IP header. > >Section 9 says: >> o Hosts SHOULD ignore v2 or v3 Queries without the Router-Alert >> option. > >-Dave > >_______________________________________________ >ssm mailing list >ssm@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm > _______________________________________________ ssm mailing list ssm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm