From nobody Fri Oct 13 14:18:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6270A1321B6; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:18:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, smccammon@amsl.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150792952036.23910.16079601977166445128.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:18:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] suit - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 21:18:40 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Stephanie McCammon, on behalf of the suit working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Software Updates for Internet of Things Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Stephanie McCammon Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: sacm mile lamps acme tls ipsecme sipcore stir ipwave sipbrandy curdle anima Second Priority: dispatch oauth saag ace uta tcpinc perc netmod Third Priority: mtgvenue iasa20 People who must be present: Russ Housley Kathleen Moriarty David Waltermire Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Oct 20 07:00:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5A2132125 for ; 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Fri, 20 Oct 2017 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.194 with HTTP; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 06:59:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 09:59:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Mailing list is operational and FUD archive has been transferred X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:00:03 -0000 Hello, This is just to let the participants know the mailing list is fully operational now and all of the FUD archives have been transferred over to this list. Please let the chairs and me know if you have any issues. -- Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Fri Oct 20 07:22:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE5B13337F for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dGlKIy8VmG7I for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7C2D132D18 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8C0300577 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 10:21:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id RUcd1axEl2Dg for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 10:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [5.5.33.187] (vpn.snozzages.com [204.42.252.17]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22B3C30042B for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 10:21:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <5EE53A3E-A9D8-438F-9EB6-5FF78C7A62B9@vigilsec.com> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 10:21:56 -0400 To: suit@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Call for Agenda Items X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:22:01 -0000 The draft charter is here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ The IESG has begun the charter approval process, so we want to conduct = the session at IETF 100 with the assumption that the charter will be = approved. If that is not the case, then we will adjust the agenda to = address any issues that come up in the chartering process. Please let the chairs know if you would like to make a presentation. Russ & Dave From nobody Fri Oct 20 07:24:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A1F132D18 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:24:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MfgWdK9hE_TG for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr30067.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.3.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 406881241F3 for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Oct 2017 14:24:23.5555 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR0801MB2707 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Call for Agenda Items X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:24:28 -0000 Hi Russ, I would like to discuss the documents we had submitted earlier this year, n= amely: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moran-fud-architecture-00 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moran-fud-manifest-00 We will resubmit updated versions to the new group. Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Russ Housley Sent: 20 October 2017 16:22 To: suit@ietf.org Subject: [Suit] Call for Agenda Items The draft charter is here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ The IESG has begun the charter approval process, so we want to conduct the = session at IETF 100 with the assumption that the charter will be approved. = If that is not the case, then we will adjust the agenda to address any iss= ues that come up in the chartering process. Please let the chairs know if you would like to make a presentation. Russ & Dave _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Fri Oct 20 17:27:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A28134493; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:24:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150854546068.20809.15400921746363426261.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:24:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] suit - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:24:21 -0000 Dear Stephanie McCammon, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. suit Session 1 (1:30:00) Monday, Afternoon Session II 1550-1720 Room Name: Canning size: 250 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Software Updates for Internet of Things Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Stephanie McCammon Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: anima curdle sipbrandy ipwave stir sipcore ipsecme tls acme lamps mile sacm Second Priority: netmod perc tcpinc uta ace saag oauth dispatch Third Priority: iasa20 mtgvenue People who must be present: David Waltermire Kathleen Moriarty Russ Housley Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Oct 21 00:35:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459C513232C for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:35:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANY_SPAN_IN_TEXT=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zizjssDIGWdT for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7C28126BF3 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:35:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9L7ZNp1010609 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 09:35:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.44.182] (vpn27.hotsplots.net [185.46.137.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3yJvZw0vgvzDWYk; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 09:35:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DD4BD848-0498-4312-88E7-4CFDB1CAB297" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 530264109.250855-c1323558de7b7e632bfb94d4145ff46f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 09:35:09 +0200 Message-Id: References: <2464DB14-AA9D-434E-9264-E94C30CB8DB4@tzi.org> To: suit@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Fwd: Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF100: FINAL AGENDA X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 07:35:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DD4BD848-0498-4312-88E7-4CFDB1CAB297 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > From: Carsten Bormann > > Subject: Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF100: FINAL AGENDA > Date: October 21, 2017 at 09:26:23 GMT+2 > To: fud@ietf.org , teep@ietf.org = , din@irtf.org >=20 > Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the "FINAL" AGENDA > for IETF100. Remember that "FINAL" means this will be the basis for > printed agenda sheets, there is still some potential for changes after > that. >=20 > The CBOR/SUIT conflict has been fixed, but now there is overlap > between 6TISCH and SUIT. ROLL vs. TEEP is a bit unfortunate, as is > DINRG vs. LPWAN vs. DISPATCH. >=20 > All times are SGT (UTC+0800). (You can get pure UTC times on > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc = , for those who want to > listen from remote.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > FRIDAY, November 10, 2017 > -- Joint meeting of OCF and T2TRG @ OCF meeting venue >=20 > SATURDAY/SUNDAY > -- Hackathon (including various interops) >=20 > MONDAY, November 13, 2017 >=20 > 0930-1200 Morning Session I > Collyer ART dispatch Dispatch WG - 0930-1100 Joint = with ARTAREA > Collyer ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG - = 1100-1200 > Olivia INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG > VIP A IRTF*** dinrg Decentralized Internet Infrastructure = Proposed RG > Sophia OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG >=20 > 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I > Sophia ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG > Padang OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG >=20 > 1550-1720 Afternoon Session II > Bras Basah INT *** 6tisch IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE = 802.15.4e WG > Collyer INT homenet Home Networking WG > Padang IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols > Canning SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = BOF >=20 > 1740-1840 Afternoon Session III > Sophia INT ipwave IP Wireless Access in Vehicular = Environments WG - 0930-1030 > Padang SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG > Canning TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG >=20 > TUESDAY, November 14, 2017 >=20 > 0930-1200 Morning Session I > Collyer SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG > Olivia TSV taps Transport Services WG >=20 > 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I > Bras Basah ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG > Canning INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG > VIP A SEC tokbind Token Binding WG > Padang TSV quic QUIC WG >=20 > 1550-1750 Afternoon Session II > Padang IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing > Olivia RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG > Sophia SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG >=20 > WEDNESDAY, November 15, 2017 >=20 > 0930-1200 Morning Session I > Canning INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG > Olivia INT *** lwig Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG = - 1100-1200 > VIP A IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking > Collyer TSV quic QUIC WG >=20 > 1330-1500 Afternoon Session I > Bras Basah ART uta Using TLS in Applications WG > VIP A RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG > Collyer SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning BOF > Orchard TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance = Techniques WG >=20 > 1520-1650 Afternoon Session II > Collyer INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG > VIP A IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum > Orchard SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG >=20 > THURSDAY, November 16, 2017 >=20 > 0930-1200 Morning Session I > Padang IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting > Collyer OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG > Sophia RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG > Canning SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG >=20 > 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I > Sophia INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG > Collyer IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking Proposed RG > Padang SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting >=20 > 1550-1750 Afternoon Session II > Olivia ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG > VIP A ART ice Interactive Connectivity Establishment = WG - 1550-1650 > Canning RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting > Sophia SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG >=20 > 1810-1910 Afternoon Session III > VIP A SEC curdle CURves, Deprecating and a Little more = Encryption WG > Padang TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting >=20 > FRIDAY, November 17, 2017 >=20 > 0930-1130 Morning Session I > Canning ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG > VIP A RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG > Collyer TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_DD4BD848-0498-4312-88E7-4CFDB1CAB297 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
From: = Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Subject: = Constrained = Node/Network Cluster @ IETF100: FINAL AGENDA
Date: = October 21, 2017 at 09:26:23 = GMT+2
To: = fud@ietf.org, teep@ietf.org, din@irtf.org

Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda = based on the "FINAL" AGENDA
for IETF100.  Remember = that "FINAL" means this will be the basis for
printed = agenda sheets, there is still some potential for changes after
that.

The CBOR/SUIT conflict has = been fixed, but now there is overlap
between 6TISCH and = SUIT.  ROLL vs. TEEP is a bit unfortunate, as is
DINRG = vs. LPWAN vs. DISPATCH.

All times are SGT = (UTC+0800).  (You can get pure UTC times on
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc, for = those who want to
listen from remote.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

FRIDAY, = November 10, 2017
-- Joint meeting of OCF and T2TRG @ OCF = meeting venue

SATURDAY/SUNDAY
-- Hackathon (including various interops)

MONDAY, November 13, 2017

0930-1200  Morning Session I
Collyer ART = dispatch = Dispatch WG - 0930-1100 Joint with ARTAREA
Collyer = = ART = httpbis = Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG - 1100-1200
Olivia =   = INT *** = lpwan = IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks WG
VIP A =    = IRTF*** = dinrg = Decentralized Internet Infrastructure Proposed RG
Sophia   OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated = Model and Approach WG

1330-1530 =  Afternoon Session I
Sophia   ART = *** = core = Constrained RESTful Environments WG
Padang =   = OPS = v6ops = IPv6 Operations WG

1550-1720 =  Afternoon Session II
Bras Basah INT = *** = 6tisch = IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE 802.15.4e WG
Collyer = = INT = homenet = Home Networking WG
Padang   IRTF = maprg = Measurement and Analysis for Protocols
Canning = = SEC *** = suit = Software Updates for Internet of Things BOF

1740-1840  Afternoon Session III
Sophia =   = INT = ipwave = IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG - 0930-1030
Padang   SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG
Canning TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group = WG

TUESDAY, November 14, 2017

0930-1200  Morning Session I
Collyer SEC *** ace = Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments = WG
Olivia   TSV taps Transport Services WG

1330-1530  Afternoon Session I
Bras Basah ART *** core = Constrained RESTful Environments WG
Canning INT 6man IPv6 = Maintenance WG
VIP A    SEC = tokbind = Token Binding WG
Padang   TSV quic QUIC = WG

1550-1750  Afternoon Session II
Padang   IRTF*** = t2trg = Thing-to-Thing
Olivia   RTG bier Bit = Indexed Explicit Replication WG
Sophia   SEC = oauth = Web Authorization Protocol WG

WEDNESDAY, November 15, 2017

0930-1200  Morning Session I
Canning INT = dnssd = Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery  WG
Olivia   INT *** lwig = Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG - 1100-1200
VIP A    IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking
Collyer TSV quic QUIC WG

1330-1500  Afternoon Session I
Bras = Basah = ART = uta = Using TLS in Applications WG
VIP A =    = RTG *** = roll = Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG
Collyer = = SEC *** = teep = Trusted Execution Environment Provisioning BOF
Orchard TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance = Techniques WG

1520-1650  Afternoon = Session II
Collyer INT intarea Internet = Area Working Group WG
VIP A    IRTF cfrg Crypto = Forum
Orchard SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG

THURSDAY, November 16, 2017

0930-1200  Morning Session I
Padang =   = IRTF = irtfopen = IRTF Open Meeting
Collyer OPS = v6ops = IPv6 Operations WG
Sophia   RTG = detnet = Deterministic Networking WG
Canning SEC tls Transport = Layer Security WG

1330-1530  Afternoon = Session I
Sophia   INT *** 6lo IPv6 over = Networks of Resource-constrained Nodes WG
Collyer IRTF = panrg = Path Aware Networking Proposed RG
Padang =   = SEC = saag = Security Area Open Meeting

1550-1750 =  Afternoon Session II
Olivia   ART = *** = cbor = Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance and Extensions = WG
VIP A    ART ice Interactive Connectivity = Establishment WG - 1550-1650
Canning RTG = rtgarea = Routing Area Open Meeting
Sophia   SEC acme Automated = Certificate Management Environment WG

1810-1910  Afternoon Session III
VIP A =    = SEC = curdle = CURves, Deprecating and a Little more Encryption WG
Padang   TSV tsvarea Transport = Area Open Meeting

FRIDAY, November 17, = 2017

0930-1130  Morning Session I
Canning ART httpbis Hypertext = Transfer Protocol WG
VIP A    RTG = babel = Babel routing protocol WG
Collyer TSV = tsvwg = Transport Area Working Group WG





= --Apple-Mail=_DD4BD848-0498-4312-88E7-4CFDB1CAB297-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 03:51:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E41013F3BB; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 03:51:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 03:51:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charter?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:51:14 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU workshop in the final charter. And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, I'd prefer to see milestones that respectively could mention these as starting points. In any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before approval as I would also like to know what the expected time line is. From nobody Mon Oct 23 04:00:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8668B13F3C0; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:00:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2BG3i0pHVr5W; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F41413F0AD; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id h4so25521773qtk.8; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:00:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LaS0N5MIbxvCXpijp+OeUUdq1COJoa2eZPdZ2sgnVKM=; b=Z3Z8zxybDP6xJAy4KfIxXcH3mJvRMM/3ohvW2PATyE4kBWFSVhDqxtAz1DGNZ6/vrS s5DE3grMQauSqxakKDgrssQecNZiIsmos0Iaw0zo0InqATOhBe9nBcB5ThaZwIhKeeeD x580aCJ5tjfKwqqD4+rlhVYEnZvdtKpjuN6P7l4reg9ROtZoC9apIY0BmOwWzQGBBOx0 bOT40+wBwlxV6aj4ZlnOLLDx9Of/Wf5SbpT+M81Ysqcex67SY/anho36xk7DI7oUSCUZ NKfPazQl2zdd/+ptRktdqYzpEg/Fk64EUVitRMfmluDc/0xfXfsODsdiZVFQ/oWJiOAZ lSWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LaS0N5MIbxvCXpijp+OeUUdq1COJoa2eZPdZ2sgnVKM=; b=QNJRRM1kVNhC//GyWxHk6YlbmNTCRg06MEYhJeI94u/baCdUY69GH9Xv0UJuaMzBB8 wco2m5qKk9gjpKloa5rHJigKMzdgtFvN63nkAhNQ8o77KRe4B9fGFd/TmpP5aeMPZoLk 9PJ74NTjoRtpcLhEPmVMcdPT/hnubpiEsn6J7/Uy4YwMF62BdfSMskBEIDuZSSXnCccn Y+cmiKT/21J4WwrL20WUxAA/+ldqTMKec5Y2VezKKtK+9nz9hR0Q8a2J3zDcFyf4g/YN RmG9J5YR44Z5EnuHlfLJkb9Wo5ejMHc1Y8iijyAdwI3gLAeY9dAxERQPV6ItFZF4iD3+ 5SZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVVLgtXopI07U2zqAWYtwawtM2ObB0sBrWv/IO5265rKhmCYAFe 618ZEE+Vj2noyoQnv1up/bPRi0pW X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+SuU+DcBYrW3ec/UoHLqA459bS5+qPJLKZx2PyaKP27y5r6Hu5Eed08i7ZCTCkGiwdwM94lcQ== X-Received: by 10.200.53.111 with SMTP id z44mr19739131qtb.12.1508756405573; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (209-6-124-204.s3530.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcncustomer.com. [209.6.124.204]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6sm3554769qtz.68.2017.10.23.04.00.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kathleen Moriarty X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:00:03 -0400 Cc: The IESG , suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> References: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 11:00:08 -0000 Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 23, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind wr= ote: >=20 > Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU workshop in th= e > final charter. And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, I'd p= refer > to see milestones that respectively could mention these as starting points= . In > any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before approval as I w= ould > also like to know what the expected time line is. >=20 Hi Mirja, I did add the milestones. Can you see them? Best, Kathleen=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Oct 23 04:05:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9732F13F3BE for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:05:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=ietf@kuehlewind.net header.d=kuehlewind.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OXg0eB4gCCYE for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0307137ED6 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:05:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kuehlewind.net; b=Wnyink1BYng4YnmnSbpHKnW7js474dp7RA2p47CcPkxeWWyVTEKywP+z8p4zTEbSjjFZOFGzmtcmcB/aqV3YR0wqO/GyR/D87z+o9Rjz/2jl1dwm9X+iVSS9/YDkxz4/IeS8wyyRiizQIWadERRu2bnedBpFTyHogFrZNF7s5k4=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-PPP-Message-ID:X-PPP-Vhost; Received: (qmail 23796 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2017 13:05:09 +0200 Received: from p5dec2abd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO ?192.168.178.33?) (93.236.42.189) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 23 Oct 2017 13:05:09 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 13:05:08 +0200 Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4F4A8B64-496A-41EC-B250-0D8EDBF5CBA1@kuehlewind.net> References: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> To: Kathleen Moriarty X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20171023110509.23788.99380@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 11:05:13 -0000 No, for me it says: "No milestones for charter found.=E2=80=9C > Am 23.10.2017 um 13:00 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty = : >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Oct 23, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind = wrote: >>=20 >> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >> charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU workshop = in the >> final charter. And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, = I'd prefer >> to see milestones that respectively could mention these as starting = points. In >> any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before approval = as I would >> also like to know what the expected time line is. >>=20 > Hi Mirja, >=20 > I did add the milestones. Can you see them? >=20 > Best, > Kathleen=20 >>=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Oct 23 05:37:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189B01386DE; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 05:36:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5RKrCh7ZXZAV; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 05:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x230.google.com (mail-qk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F297138347; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 05:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id r64so21697939qkc.1; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 05:36:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Aa9RftNkb2a5eTe+EY8omT/fTMCE08khQqNyVggPDqs=; b=Otz+EG0DIMuWXHzSKdo11LVq2jV9x8VvmQIU8uG3FK3Tyq8DPv+5MD3w40N0qoAZEf YS+2dH5KzulUwRycCNzBJTqhguN+Km+48GP2sHuTF0QMWuq/OWIVZaYWAGN4LXBNtQjG HluSkb5mX0a1jLL98keGfPYI93PxlWFCPVY5qz8M9zewYrtJRMjWt1uS1RMRJFf8en3u lzNgYsy17s4ws1PGKlmdPfbKDwUn3+utPa6VM5kN70C9j6hLP7HUqtHutvThWox1DvXQ 7lP7oO5oixfMqJVD3pdxR0zWdd3LsvUvTBauTUmHXiRdwDK7geLoSQE/FrUlMaQO7YSs uBHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Aa9RftNkb2a5eTe+EY8omT/fTMCE08khQqNyVggPDqs=; b=YeCd0AjRGatTvXnp9/+PYi0bc8jX7K38LDa8rBdLUGse/0n2JA39oDH4Sc+G2v2vpi MG4anpQySKMW+OmawZRThB7kpte+dZBBgyJCtd0tgYQXFHlmyhZvFn6AXAslNtFuJSHd zP0NNNAJzPRs2Hztr+6JSIqiy90iPKB55N6Y3q8mVRtwIbN34mxsv/htXMGrRBNl8H2U Uo7nZU/l5YNIQNeKvYz/IY/UiVY0LSE2mpXiECDG3bbX3BVuNrplTmzNtwzEjMX3JLPI 5Wvx5FdGz5LIuRFt631oZrb+nKYzRaoWxVC5iltGzlv1JS49BXOWWR/IfwHk0Rj5WS2S urVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUA9itGQnzXIe2ymmt6BiZ+A786adrrv4pqrYNlsX4T3B1R9P49 htWeKIzDXIGLEWFZH8ERfdvMOUdd X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+R5/FcAVrpYSbxIe7T/7+Ji7kET5/XAk4Pb+dN+q4jryb+HdfzbMc4TrkuXXG0YS6yTHibgoA== X-Received: by 10.55.89.198 with SMTP id n189mr18108031qkb.349.1508762210925; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 05:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (209-6-124-204.s3530.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcncustomer.com. [209.6.124.204]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r26sm4618434qki.42.2017.10.23.05.36.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Oct 2017 05:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kathleen Moriarty X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <4F4A8B64-496A-41EC-B250-0D8EDBF5CBA1@kuehlewind.net> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 08:36:49 -0400 Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> <4F4A8B64-496A-41EC-B250-0D8EDBF5CBA1@kuehlewind.net> To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:36:54 -0000 Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 23, 2017, at 7:05 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) = wrote: >=20 > No, for me it says: >=20 > "No milestones for charter found.=E2=80=9C Ok, I'll look into that. I entered them when I entered the charter. >=20 >=20 >> Am 23.10.2017 um 13:00 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty : >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind w= rote: >>>=20 >>> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >>> charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection >>>=20 >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>> I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU workshop in t= he >>> final charter. I'll check with the proponents as this shouldn't matter too much to leave in= or take out. >>> And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, I'd prefer >>> to see milestones that respectively could mention these as starting poin= ts. Since it's mentioning a -bis of an RFC for the starting point, I think this i= s fine. If it's a big sticking point for you, we could phrase to say updati= ng RFCxyz. Best, Kathleen=20 >>> any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before approval as I= would >>> also like to know what the expected time line is. >>>=20 >> Hi Mirja, >>=20 >> I did add the milestones. Can you see them? >>=20 >> Best, >> Kathleen=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Oct 23 06:53:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03EE1389A0; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 06:53:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FobiG4SxFsbz; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 06:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22c.google.com (mail-pg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 510F81385A7; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 06:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id b192so11834017pga.2; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 06:53:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=++l0gxxZ9s5MYuhpYw41p6mONfzHbsc0ek9+mehK4DQ=; b=Im7ZyOVipqdVPnR8Y9UGi4MMJ9PYcU+G7zwuWP0ukMFWkWd3e6W1HnGynDVJbVliw/ JQlAlqyi9VCFMCQvXwXIuIt5XJLpwWF+hJku+wnl46FXNaYWa6kK+USsfFFJauF/yJ9I nDEN4gE7FPzt5JczwLVwcTD51ibrKYgxqXHhZBrADCQHgMcFAbb2AL/MwqSy4EeoXVT0 +EQdFvYT+1ikN7t6JeksWcJnRIPdzCcu2aIbMlRC46K0bkbAgjxLGk/5GY7oYppZStwG L83bxwFmw0DNPXw7o/Tqfb0zQsE/oNlh+9yR01wcoPnDKyfFkUCwuXltrrJ0TXZQkNCD tPuA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=++l0gxxZ9s5MYuhpYw41p6mONfzHbsc0ek9+mehK4DQ=; b=e0z8DMhuso5ceKqOStdqypLT1JQYpq5adMUtmg2ALBikL3oSdJWibFjzZ1SWEk2F0/ 3n65XiDvB9Z9ZthyRipE7e/a5OBWZYZ8jNIDUnJCYhSUjcqzBa0vyShNAQBi/qho81oZ 9jhvSjMbzJSuAOq0Am6DThrdxtCbcCNh0FwJ4//e5w1+LEMTr6/qc7U7HiNT3qvC/wXh AacI3B7kns7OyIW6cG7NEP4Rfz6UJ3nkVnfYfkJeiCxnLKgLnIpCrPLWmWgb+gWWj6Zp F9oYZ5KxamS9lnBgAMr+bOGg54oybeHlATaVekNaps76QmfJhQxl2zEQw03g5Y64Cc32 TKQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaX5YN6IpZaXqN02K1/RAv4HwYtE2zBtd7WP4FckYS5QOO0E8IUw rmydJnndO9ZmQBnnlYOTe60aaiRcHF+Kk5Wccpw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+SGVy1gHys0kPkoKMqqst5Vq9pVpNtXe/UKtyG1EUg+X+HBvaODhEM7oyxuryFFhCK5fei7PT91TZgt7XOlM3g= X-Received: by 10.99.151.81 with SMTP id d17mr11833180pgo.13.1508766804881; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 06:53:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.194 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 06:52:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> <4F4A8B64-496A-41EC-B250-0D8EDBF5CBA1@kuehlewind.net> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 09:52:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 13:53:27 -0000 Milestones have been added. Maybe I didn't hit save when I entered them originally. Kathleen On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote: > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 23, 2017, at 7:05 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) wrote: >> >> No, for me it says: >> >> "No milestones for charter found.=E2=80=9C > Ok, I'll look into that. I entered them when I entered the charter. >> >> >>> Am 23.10.2017 um 13:00 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty : >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind wrote: >>>> >>>> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >>>> charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection >>>> >>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s >>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> COMMENT: >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU workshop i= n the >>>> final charter. > > I'll check with the proponents as this shouldn't matter too much to leave= in or take out. >>>> And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, I'd prefer >>>> to see milestones that respectively could mention these as starting po= ints. > > Since it's mentioning a -bis of an RFC for the starting point, I think th= is is fine. If it's a big sticking point for you, we could phrase to say u= pdating RFCxyz. > > Best, > Kathleen >>>> any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before approval as= I would >>>> also like to know what the expected time line is. >>>> >>> Hi Mirja, >>> >>> I did add the milestones. Can you see them? >>> >>> Best, >>> Kathleen >>>> >>> >> --=20 Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Mon Oct 23 07:08:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A4F13F6B6 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:08:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=ietf@kuehlewind.net header.d=kuehlewind.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YnxTjGFAPE2y for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 146B8138C11 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 06:58:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kuehlewind.net; b=e1+8mzg10JmYBcg8Xnc+WzoAeflJxpKjSpgAQZC0egLR4szsrpTuzHZnvYZGFeOIstnweHRXyO7TMqEJrb9PS9rDNeocfMZcZrLDd9rttDbpoCJkD7yH2uc3HdvJXgoSGd/ibSDhoxWrDVIjvLG2mv3LsDx6NSKSV1DqTGOOlUA=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-PPP-Message-ID:X-PPP-Vhost; Received: (qmail 32215 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2017 15:58:37 +0200 Received: from p5dec2abd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO ?192.168.178.33?) (93.236.42.189) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 23 Oct 2017 15:58:36 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 15:58:36 +0200 Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <27FBBE14-1B00-40D2-86F8-14AAE439F411@kuehlewind.net> References: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> <4F4A8B64-496A-41EC-B250-0D8EDBF5CBA1@kuehlewind.net> To: Kathleen Moriarty X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20171023135837.32208.76459@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:08:23 -0000 Hi Kathleen, yes, I can see them now and have edited my position accordingly. One editorial proposal here: s/Submit X as WG item./Adopt X as WG item./ Thanks, Mirja > Am 23.10.2017 um 15:52 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty = : >=20 > Milestones have been added. Maybe I didn't hit save when I entered > them originally. >=20 > Kathleen >=20 > On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Kathleen Moriarty > wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 7:05 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) = wrote: >>>=20 >>> No, for me it says: >>>=20 >>> "No milestones for charter found.=E2=80=9C >> Ok, I'll look into that. I entered them when I entered the charter. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Am 23.10.2017 um 13:00 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty = : >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>=20 >>>>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >>>>> charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection >>>>>=20 >>>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all >>>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >>>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found = here: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> COMMENT: >>>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>=20 >>>>> I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU = workshop in the >>>>> final charter. >>=20 >> I'll check with the proponents as this shouldn't matter too much to = leave in or take out. >>>>> And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, I'd prefer >>>>> to see milestones that respectively could mention these as = starting points. >>=20 >> Since it's mentioning a -bis of an RFC for the starting point, I = think this is fine. If it's a big sticking point for you, we could = phrase to say updating RFCxyz. >>=20 >> Best, >> Kathleen >>>>> any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before = approval as I would >>>>> also like to know what the expected time line is. >>>>>=20 >>>> Hi Mirja, >>>>=20 >>>> I did add the milestones. Can you see them? >>>>=20 >>>> Best, >>>> Kathleen >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 >=20 > Best regards, > Kathleen From nobody Mon Oct 23 07:36:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E73138F9C; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:36:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Aq_7gYcAfGFW; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x232.google.com (mail-pg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06F9113F6E3; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x232.google.com with SMTP id k7so11929459pga.3; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:36:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SVUCH4iXo8ktOpVGW+c7Y5yxDwjzjS7D3K8hOPpRMGA=; b=abOEV/uhVr1NaGOmoR5KczkP/InVY9F9q2A4my7xWbhc2TYb4udJLSbeTMFJtPwkFg j8Thsbld1ablYQHYnHjpHUFJ2skkN9j+jI0Dz/cLKGMJ6HkrMPxBm7P1RP/89uBvAqBb b83L6BtlQ5rHQzYvuZlqLObqMPmMBtRJbzkRIVoRKCP3umLi+gaU83y8TR+5lxChulq5 co1ZeykOKeiLDvf8LfGcYkqFICCpbb95oGWnW/WgtL6xMOHaOk569zJxz7Z2ofEkb+pb iOOILmOM4poISo8laCWLFbxEWIzBCh711AFYVoNO/1VADnvEV1K46ceKpcipJSoJQgM9 dljw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SVUCH4iXo8ktOpVGW+c7Y5yxDwjzjS7D3K8hOPpRMGA=; b=ttMdWrCETrqZLmF9aUTi0xAo72iI+gEPcu5gTTaDv3NLbW0scNxG4DQPqon5kUUr5Z 6Ly4s/me6vv1DOBns6bo5Xj8/0pjiH62B/qHk64LtecCtgCSPxa/DiLgARo2CebH6MVs d9XXuCXeBWhOa8qaczh4NtIHBdq6YkX7OxgwwPHX1MIhuqfv+b9Pg+z4NNiNYrv3SNhw fcwk0uFKO06wZi+ZHWb6wvj+ls8musCSmhyK1t9oCL8dmF9362OTl2LjP2Ofz5xI69UT Ob6zlVw1GCmB91KPj1XT/JJdEh3qF5uU3D1RBDDEbWpOefsSlGViESrvzw1Iyv1YHhnv khMA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWS56Q3TF1uObBT0f0U9Q5tmtMwtBuH3+Tf7GsDS0pXuI7KmfTJ utnulFVmNXUn/YXT6mE46+/e9xHz58PoV1tib2Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+RBPNFsspZH480flHOnssXUueSgDaZJcmpms4H7Mw4vJK9NX3tqb08CUxcCJTDAkvI5OKQXPWEL4bSzFcq6ZLg= X-Received: by 10.84.174.4 with SMTP id q4mr10711836plb.233.1508769391586; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:36:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.194 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:35:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <27FBBE14-1B00-40D2-86F8-14AAE439F411@kuehlewind.net> References: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> <4F4A8B64-496A-41EC-B250-0D8EDBF5CBA1@kuehlewind.net> <27FBBE14-1B00-40D2-86F8-14AAE439F411@kuehlewind.net> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:35:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:36:45 -0000 On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) wrote: > Hi Kathleen, > > yes, I can see them now and have edited my position accordingly. > > One editorial proposal here: > s/Submit X as WG item./Adopt X as WG item./ Thanks. Kathleen > > Thanks, > Mirja > > >> Am 23.10.2017 um 15:52 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty : >> >> Milestones have been added. Maybe I didn't hit save when I entered >> them originally. >> >> Kathleen >> >> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Kathleen Moriarty >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 7:05 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) wrote: >>>> >>>> No, for me it says: >>>> >>>> "No milestones for charter found.=E2=80=9C >>> Ok, I'll look into that. I entered them when I entered the charter. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Am 23.10.2017 um 13:00 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty : >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >>>>>> charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection >>>>>> >>>>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to al= l >>>>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut t= his >>>>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >>>>>> COMMENT: >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >>>>>> >>>>>> I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU workshop= in the >>>>>> final charter. >>> >>> I'll check with the proponents as this shouldn't matter too much to lea= ve in or take out. >>>>>> And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, I'd prefer >>>>>> to see milestones that respectively could mention these as starting = points. >>> >>> Since it's mentioning a -bis of an RFC for the starting point, I think = this is fine. If it's a big sticking point for you, we could phrase to say= updating RFCxyz. >>> >>> Best, >>> Kathleen >>>>>> any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before approval = as I would >>>>>> also like to know what the expected time line is. >>>>>> >>>>> Hi Mirja, >>>>> >>>>> I did add the milestones. Can you see them? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kathleen >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Best regards, >> Kathleen > --=20 Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Mon Oct 23 07:38:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BADB71389A0; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:38:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id igF55JjiXW8m; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6BBE138F9C; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:38:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v78so11924627pgb.5; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:38:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=N+5BeJYFt7uTKqCUmDahIE67JujXo+jQdh8lb/2WxTI=; b=boADnlhW4f51o0/iyjbGdlunIJ7LvAdoWW89CgXoaQKdnPfGA0XdPkfDQBZQBoZeZI hqxPJTl6xfuj9/73IrLpqX8UQHjqdljYQ1LZkIR1jJo8+ht8+uYi2MIQpQUF61Ujqw6z oz/uW/pJZwFDwi/K8sXbIcnojDqwyEO+A6u+8ErFN+szLbHkFs75P49CtwQdoKx9jgOV kORwiY5YS8Dh0hBqb3QCEm9qhAFefY5HpXvxfrEOe5CSPdQn9FRDj8lylR1YnE5BpqgF M8WbShNaWMTfK+ZUQzEMoFVDXrKG+AH7Oig9WJeSLW3cAXhV1HGpqNTFOl9JARPxDXBY Igrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=N+5BeJYFt7uTKqCUmDahIE67JujXo+jQdh8lb/2WxTI=; b=TbhWg+wFqEOVQGW1harjq1dX9k6l/tYTj5/fMbBPBPVwdea9vZk3vcYNgFL9GLGmMA EIw6Somo2+fT1m6ZBFeCe8zwy9aDR5oIYXOSRTbNo3nxm1Tv31Fanm/TdRdtCPeyX2CC S3AsubelkcG/8UUwYxg3UmluuK7HZDZfyLogWarsffQ3/U/Q9rWy55Tz3YmBwwBUOmDI aY3misyyBaj80ovjuoXzU2PRo0OQ787ZsORz6Zmp3wvJUYsn2P8FgQLp0f0YXoTaU0Cc eClJeLg49XEMQ4AdynCdUUZ+ZGeJlXw/3mcJqdO4/T9tPm/8BoO7XPY+xbiMmsVrqezs SjDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVhKYRDyG8J7eEHFI3wm0Hd5ntchT9a/ED1/mQnUpRd1sHDgv5Q w+7Ekf71Fx5Opqm6s3R2BmsmR7m20k4QqM6w7XE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TwQ++SHmi8ikBlMIGjwY2bsysc+ne6WtJsRY/192i/10PsF6k7BfLggaDy1PTG6VRjxO3g3j0x27FXriHWkDg= X-Received: by 10.84.160.226 with SMTP id v31mr10509181plg.302.1508769500424; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:38:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.194 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:37:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> <4F4A8B64-496A-41EC-B250-0D8EDBF5CBA1@kuehlewind.net> <27FBBE14-1B00-40D2-86F8-14AAE439F411@kuehlewind.net> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:37:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:38:23 -0000 On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote: > On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) > wrote: >> Hi Kathleen, >> >> yes, I can see them now and have edited my position accordingly. >> >> One editorial proposal here: >> s/Submit X as WG item./Adopt X as WG item./ > > Thanks. > Kathleen I made the updates, although this is just a preference - not worth arguing = over. Kathleen >> >> Thanks, >> Mirja >> >> >>> Am 23.10.2017 um 15:52 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty : >>> >>> Milestones have been added. Maybe I didn't hit save when I entered >>> them originally. >>> >>> Kathleen >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Kathleen Moriarty >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 7:05 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) wrote: >>>>> >>>>> No, for me it says: >>>>> >>>>> "No milestones for charter found.=E2=80=9C >>>> Ok, I'll look into that. I entered them when I entered the charter. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Am 23.10.2017 um 13:00 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty : >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >>>>>>> charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to a= ll >>>>>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >>>>>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------= --- >>>>>>> COMMENT: >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------= --- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU worksho= p in the >>>>>>> final charter. >>>> >>>> I'll check with the proponents as this shouldn't matter too much to le= ave in or take out. >>>>>>> And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, I'd prefer >>>>>>> to see milestones that respectively could mention these as starting= points. >>>> >>>> Since it's mentioning a -bis of an RFC for the starting point, I think= this is fine. If it's a big sticking point for you, we could phrase to sa= y updating RFCxyz. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Kathleen >>>>>>> any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before approval= as I would >>>>>>> also like to know what the expected time line is. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Mirja, >>>>>> >>>>>> I did add the milestones. Can you see them? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Kathleen >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Kathleen >> > > > > -- > > Best regards, > Kathleen --=20 Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Mon Oct 23 07:40:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71152139095 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:40:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=ietf@kuehlewind.net header.d=kuehlewind.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vi0n17nUk9A3 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8992E139078 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:40:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kuehlewind.net; b=FPWhrRdIZfV1Fe3+BvyJ2VelV0g8VIJbaEzHHLlzyGHjTJiViWNXnL6IVV371B/gw4AB3n0nQEjUGfO7ZmBhR+XU86aaT7QXyUvq+mUgEcF4LFQyiAh8wcdJKjq/xElfP3W1IQpR/d5EXaKa2JWRXp43dpOYtlgg6tA9aRthSe8=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-PPP-Message-ID:X-PPP-Vhost; Received: (qmail 1602 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2017 16:39:59 +0200 Received: from p5dec2abd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO ?192.168.178.33?) (93.236.42.189) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 23 Oct 2017 16:39:59 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:39:58 +0200 Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6CE7A8DF-0EF5-4958-9F16-4481A4E4D7EE@kuehlewind.net> References: <150875587409.24868.2032021458473162166.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <18C5DD1E-C332-44C4-AC45-85699D8881C0@gmail.com> <4F4A8B64-496A-41EC-B250-0D8EDBF5CBA1@kuehlewind.net> <27FBBE14-1B00-40D2-86F8-14AAE439F411@kuehlewind.net> To: Kathleen Moriarty X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20171023143959.1595.48471@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:40:03 -0000 > Am 23.10.2017 um 16:37 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty = : >=20 > On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Kathleen Moriarty > wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) >> wrote: >>> Hi Kathleen, >>>=20 >>> yes, I can see them now and have edited my position accordingly. >>>=20 >>> One editorial proposal here: >>> s/Submit X as WG item./Adopt X as WG item./ >>=20 >> Thanks. >> Kathleen >=20 > I made the updates, although this is just a preference - not worth = arguing over. That=E2=80=99s why I wrote =E2=80=9Aeditorial proposal=E2=80=98=E2=80=A6 Mirja >=20 > Kathleen >=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Mirja >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Am 23.10.2017 um 15:52 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty = : >>>>=20 >>>> Milestones have been added. Maybe I didn't hit save when I entered >>>> them originally. >>>>=20 >>>> Kathleen >>>>=20 >>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Kathleen Moriarty >>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 7:05 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) = wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> No, for me it says: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> "No milestones for charter found.=E2=80=9C >>>>> Ok, I'll look into that. I entered them when I entered the = charter. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Am 23.10.2017 um 13:00 schrieb Kathleen Moriarty = : >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind = wrote: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position = for >>>>>>>> charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply = to all >>>>>>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to = cut this >>>>>>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found = here: >>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> COMMENT: >>>>>>>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I think it'd probably be not necessary to mention the IOTSU = workshop in the >>>>>>>> final charter. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I'll check with the proponents as this shouldn't matter too much = to leave in or take out. >>>>>>>> And instead of naming specific drafts in the charter, I'd = prefer >>>>>>>> to see milestones that respectively could mention these as = starting points. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Since it's mentioning a -bis of an RFC for the starting point, I = think this is fine. If it's a big sticking point for you, we could = phrase to say updating RFCxyz. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best, >>>>> Kathleen >>>>>>>> any case, I'd actually like to see milestones added before = approval as I would >>>>>>>> also like to know what the expected time line is. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Hi Mirja, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I did add the milestones. Can you see them? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Kathleen >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>>=20 >>>> Best regards, >>>> Kathleen >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >>=20 >> Best regards, >> Kathleen >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 >=20 > Best regards, > Kathleen From nobody Mon Oct 23 07:50:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1294D139101; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:50:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=netorg163034.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DOXr3GlBLz6K; 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received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: iconlabs.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: iconlabs.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Oct 2017 14:50:33.0237 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 63a66729-aaec-4a39-a133-200ce8e79b88 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR04MB1138 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_charte?= =?utf-8?q?r-ietf-suit-00-01=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:50:37 -0000 SSBhZ3JlZSB0aGF0IGl0IGlzIG5vdCBuZWNlc3NhcnkgdG8gbWVudGlvbiB0aGUgSU9UU1Ugd29y a3Nob3AgaW4gdGhlIGZpbmFsIGNoYXJ0ZXIuDQoNCkFsYW4gR3JhdQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFs IE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogU3VpdCBbbWFpbHRvOnN1aXQtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10g T24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIE1pcmphIEvDvGhsZXdpbmQNClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgT2N0b2JlciAyMywg MjAxNyA1OjUxIEFNDQpUbzogVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpDYzogc3VpdC1jaGFp cnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IHN1aXRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFtTdWl0XSBNaXJqYSBLw7xobGV3 aW5kJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9uIGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1zdWl0LTAwLTAxOiAod2l0aCBDT01N RU5UKQ0KDQpNaXJqYSBLw7xobGV3aW5kIGhhcyBlbnRlcmVkIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgYmFsbG90 IHBvc2l0aW9uIGZvcg0KY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLXN1aXQtMDAtMDE6IE5vIE9iamVjdGlvbg0KDQpX aGVuIHJlc3BvbmRpbmcsIHBsZWFzZSBrZWVwIHRoZSBzdWJqZWN0IGxpbmUgaW50YWN0IGFuZCBy ZXBseSB0byBhbGwgZW1haWwgYWRkcmVzc2VzIGluY2x1ZGVkIGluIHRoZSBUbyBhbmQgQ0MgbGlu ZXMuIChGZWVsIGZyZWUgdG8gY3V0IHRoaXMgaW50cm9kdWN0b3J5IHBhcmFncmFwaCwgaG93ZXZl ci4pDQoNCg0KDQpUaGUgZG9jdW1lbnQsIGFsb25nIHdpdGggb3RoZXIgYmFsbG90IHBvc2l0aW9u cywgY2FuIGJlIGZvdW5kIGhlcmU6DQpodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9j aGFydGVyLWlldGYtc3VpdC8NCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCkNPTU1FTlQ6DQotLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgaXQnZCBwcm9iYWJseSBiZSBub3QgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRvIG1lbnRp b24gdGhlIElPVFNVIHdvcmtzaG9wIGluIHRoZSBmaW5hbCBjaGFydGVyLiBBbmQgaW5zdGVhZCBv ZiBuYW1pbmcgc3BlY2lmaWMgZHJhZnRzIGluIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyLCBJJ2QgcHJlZmVyIHRvIHNl ZSBtaWxlc3RvbmVzIHRoYXQgcmVzcGVjdGl2ZWx5IGNvdWxkIG1lbnRpb24gdGhlc2UgYXMgc3Rh cnRpbmcgcG9pbnRzLiBJbiBhbnkgY2FzZSwgSSdkIGFjdHVhbGx5IGxpa2UgdG8gc2VlIG1pbGVz dG9uZXMgYWRkZWQgYmVmb3JlIGFwcHJvdmFsIGFzIEkgd291bGQgYWxzbyBsaWtlIHRvIGtub3cg d2hhdCB0aGUgZXhwZWN0ZWQgdGltZSBsaW5lIGlzLg0KDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpTdWl0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KU3VpdEBpZXRm Lm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zdWl0DQo= From nobody Mon Oct 23 17:28:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE2C13AE04 for ; 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Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:28:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=0qSPz38QX1C8vGBd/bvJUJO498kcMz+e0hhVxqSp48s=; b=leGP3WW2OFwHa+t644vha6dx3I+SBDMBEwyuupKMhOHgdWERaiRSm8DwwFGV9I45cm SevXl3pfKzC9uTjIV9NGyDgvUNBDAiNktCD56qQdnq23CuI7x9HTWFythQnIm4pc+8Lh TPZYg+YUN9TSBTi1DQnfs8q2c8UEBJoPPfMZwKF0dqNdhRAl73D4gz1h6tqrPetj57GY 2mXM9T3xMsTxZ/zVfqg+MOjhjeNtSm9q2Uy/r5f4epPUHloWu0AASc5p6w5Zay2RJVvD 27quiVz0paiYvunMI16ITv7rynzlLX/mICEXmG1kxJLvG5YRv3UA5qjTsfa3ByDG9UKh r6oA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=0qSPz38QX1C8vGBd/bvJUJO498kcMz+e0hhVxqSp48s=; b=tb+G4kq7lb+JYR2vCEPZomEpfKPdVhngmOsUIHQbB0bllk8RrzmdJ4dRoZ+NnOqJxy HkxWB2opWc5Eg9/sKiqR7kxfzAbH1RPel0ynhU7ZL+aFKuMsykKdzMn7kL5QiCpJQZ6l BccdvPTkPcmRnIKb0NeoVte06DvjoXfz+tnqCZGpoeh4Kq90t6V/Qr0KQFOK5VzxnPZU vZZWQLM50v0a0Z0fsyUyjpsXLRiX58FlXj8cTVogVdXIA9Ys5pBRyjoIPDpfxt3tpGdy dnzJl+PS+ea+DczUEeCvm5CMs9W7Fq2LL1WvQYzIT9Z85dFPLZ4/yNBBZo9wfDnlXi/r YdYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXKxX9liFM/hYvjF/ymzshyAlFAo8cNLAwB5SV5cQdLryGpIFif rpr2nRh1tqsgfBgWFyb2ofqtjR5uNp7U+R5O+mi35w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+SgpRsaab2Q/E+h+c/HiWgvEQunL7khlfSiykXnSfuSrEJXoET1M7lXAoDox61bMjGi+dtziIBJ/k9hznQQk84= X-Received: by 10.31.136.147 with SMTP id k141mr611174vkd.45.1508804902951; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:28:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:28:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:28:22 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145864e469f75055c4004c0" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Suit - Charter Considerations and Thoughts X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:28:25 -0000 --001a1145864e469f75055c4004c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks for bringing this work into IETF. A bunch of us at Cisco, agree that a good way to do IoT firmware update needs to do this work and are very much interested in contributing as well. We are planning to submit few drafts in that effect before the deadline. Much of this comes from the experience of shipping phones like the 7960 which had very limited memory and firmware and keeping them upgraded across 100+ countries and every continent including Antartica. Making things that can upgrade over a satellite link, or inside a secure facility, and at web scale are all problems that we deal with everyday. Having a standardized approach to this would really help. However, we would love to have discussions on few aspects of the charter and it would be great if the BOF can help have the discussions. Topics that we would like to discuss include roughly : Proposal for the IOT device to discover the Firmware server. Manifest to support newer formats like JSON, CBOR and their secure variants (JOSE/COSE). Firmware download protocol semantics and transport protocol options. Proposal for being agnostic of firmware image type and dependencies. To summarize, we are very excited about the possibility of an IETF WG on secure firmware download, but we think this charter needs substantial changes before it is ready. We look forward to being able to discuss this and refine this at the BOF. Thanks Suhas Nandakumar --001a1145864e469f75055c4004c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Thanks for bringing this work into IETF.=C2=A0 A bunch of us at Cisco, =C2= =A0agree that a good way to do IoT firmware update needs to do this work an= d are very much interested in contributing as well. We are planning to subm= it few drafts in that effect before the deadline. Much of this comes from t= he experience of shipping phones like the 7960 which had very limited memor= y and firmware and keeping them upgraded across 100+ countries and every co= ntinent including Antartica. Making things that can upgrade over a satellit= e link, or inside a secure facility, and at web scale are all problems that= we deal with everyday. Having a standardized approach to this would really= help.

However, we would love to have = discussions on few aspects of the charter and it would be great if the BOF = can help have the discussions.

Topics = that we would like to discuss include roughly :

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Proposal for= the IOT device to discover the Firmware server.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Manifest to= support newer formats =C2=A0like JSON, CBOR and their secure variants (JOS= E/COSE).

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Firmware download protocol semantics and transport = protocol options.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Propos= al for being=C2=A0agnostic of firmware im= age type and dependencies.

=C2=A0

T= o summarize, we are very excited about the possibility of an IETF WG on sec= ure firmware download, but we think this charter needs substantial changes = before it is ready. We look forward to being able to discuss this and refin= e this at the BOF.=C2=A0


Thanks=C2=A0

Suhas Nandakumar

--001a1145864e469f75055c4004c0-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 17:36:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6981C13AE0B for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:36:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.289 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.289 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uXNwokhtXEji for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x22e.google.com (mail-vk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3D3C13AE04 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id n184so1756602vka.7 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:36:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=O1dujNFBS67PhqL6s2aQC+kynJN0vhwgOkv7/FplBHw=; b=lCC6OEhrrNBSw1jq36Fe1JQb8WNjVuLgoURavDJr82Al6vdg2o+MlwJivsaPLgzfs5 WDPmkJcav10/0vX0EGwYdvxly91g8mbXWn5nzKjrQLfXdbSYuTgXGHX7Iwrs6IOb82X4 VKNBonyu+8VDfMQXezFACvcWn7cpqfQvld5tXQvxGQHH7WR7iHlrKO50M/ldOcTr+uoi JqOika+CreBonUgDcNnetjCpQUrxGd4QtdGtNXvtqUNLu0CYoY0GXBhWrOJhMmKhNSw1 ygU2VTzzIUSlw99Q+tGLKRoLEYcDn2PORZN+vlOHN+ZdjO7U4Yq+WpHS9ImAddN7MF8c P+pA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=O1dujNFBS67PhqL6s2aQC+kynJN0vhwgOkv7/FplBHw=; b=uoSQQLAYIbNXFuIvZxbsspQ/tKWcbXUWzzud4bLpAluCx1aS4pbVMUgzA8SXj6NJ5O h5j+v/tty35BMPa1FsD10Zc+UJ5NbLTfva/PkijRmmMeTDH4vLP8aIYWD3OqGYa8z0l/ uRpuDOQi+DKlhTyM4+63cW3daf6Eq5ikbMlpyBcH0vZE2DJxx+vsgPvnuALL5Zo3qhvF DfFMUl5uwLqzVy2XGpKjcQRHwDlSfnBeuKI+no075m8+V3bKiD1/d0f4dskPIxBlaXj4 GbWKK5yL+6VYatVg8/tHqQcGu/JZlxdyXpQobKgiB2LHeDFKcf0n3shZBhI5GNnQo1rx 9LfA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaURm3NYnlKBGYxmiwbroFvXbjm4eBa+6T6hg3mEq8tL1pB9aB7n 6/dKtDupxwvc3UhFtxcLRUwUrdhhq1oavO6rNhV31A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+T6NX9VPnh4HJdlu6JJMw0Rs/a2nR5doWEcieLWXioRS0MzJEI3JQ57ZqApouzk2uVVmbUfPrhWB12djle/7kU= X-Received: by 10.31.61.81 with SMTP id k78mr10649220vka.105.1508805398879; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:36:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:36:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:36:38 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114dc75ad5e381055c4021d2" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Firmware Server Discovery X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:36:41 -0000 --001a114dc75ad5e381055c4021d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello All, Finding out where to download firmware and that there is firmware available is a key part of download the firmware and impacts the design of the manifest. We think selecting a simple approach to this needs to be included in scope of the charter Thanks Suhas --001a114dc75ad5e381055c4021d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All,

Finding out where to download firmware and that there is firmware ava= ilable is a key part of download the firmware and impacts the design of the= manifest.=C2=A0

We think sele= cting a simple approach to this needs to be included in scope of the charte= r

Thanks
= Suhas
--001a114dc75ad5e381055c4021d2-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 19:43:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241E613B13B for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:43:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 77B-abZSNaAH for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x22a.google.com (mail-vk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D593138BCD for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id n184so1878051vka.7 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:43:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=oEh/qE/nJlIjK9VdKsR7O3Lj9BbHgLAFi/kWqc8c5jo=; b=sVIMkTCoSa1jdZtzlVRBvuU7P/zbpZhb9i4R/8i/xComrr9nwJrvLvZO93FIlUTtLR eSay5uXvaz3llKbFgqsQl3IIDQ0YIYz3ofuvFPoVM8gwAUltDLZQDMBmxaxdEIAsd9gX 5O/ukVocjkx7PK5il0ezBlG5ofJNJ4jz8sxANHcS1KB5cQYLTZmFdNjREKUGtK6Ej9SC B+yZIQwnHnEA+/iltqLE5Rv+ZUqPSFJojXp8lCTJ4ahTm6cGaM2w/IoA5KVa7BaK0OpU CDyZiDkTwLf6U89YQ0UJmFjiSwj1R0HwsGRm4+ZwKJJYaVvHEVMNko2A2xH61TgyCcHn S8YQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=oEh/qE/nJlIjK9VdKsR7O3Lj9BbHgLAFi/kWqc8c5jo=; b=BB9k+qymb0OAjlCF/sc6bfpxAbTttLAB6Xf9ICuOQUBQikeCBc4lqbHNYp1es0pMYJ zeyA+rTJ3Oe920DUFKma/UfTPy8ZAjJ+rdAG7LGl2Ou+8gNiEZS8K2EZpYPLhaCB3gsq Q0e5l1faB9YNmCsHLtbapnJjfTEhOETttfxCrUMsTdUp19UiPuuSiQ3Vz3GDM2zXB/Eh k0SxxLJca+YCgSHVitIBnKCgiYgR3X22SqEDHfy78/rBMvIXHlJqqKwrzkHIpc/Lr8IA htbb5j2wcyjUFPjlC0FaMRmwwuDK28vTh0dkBI/Fw15gZ4VvbQmGvDZTjxg+PaiINkxL BJVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUkTxVX58k01TvlptrrQHeUf1U54tkLf3dCcz/KADMBsjwAu2CD aFiZl+MIk6r18HhCBMJ3q/VJBU6fcsw+qlN6xZgXIQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Tj1waDhgMEt483MQfzh6gZJ8FMTfAcbOjqlmDYzZEOVdlX09hdy8Nwzq3asjECHsFrIDNzM6GlErVGvhAEA/Q= X-Received: by 10.31.11.14 with SMTP id 14mr10617976vkl.69.1508813022233; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:43:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:43:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:43:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11458efa390911055c41e804" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Agenda Time Request X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 02:43:45 -0000 --001a11458efa390911055c41e804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We plan to have some requirements and solutions drafts by the draft deadline and would like to request agenda time at the BOF to discuss what we think the scope of work for WG should be. Thanks Suhas Nandakumar --001a11458efa390911055c41e804 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We plan to have some requirements and solutions drafts by the d= raft deadline and would like to request agenda time at the BOF to discuss w= hat we think the scope of work for WG should be.=C2=A0


=
Thanks
Suhas Nandakumar
--001a11458efa390911055c41e804-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 19:46:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B708813B18D for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:46:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id esLQ71pXes_7 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x231.google.com (mail-ua0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8BFF13B13E for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x231.google.com with SMTP id l40so14408387uah.2 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:46:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5cyxpYYX7TRdqWYXkVTFHNxf+yLj/fT3ITlF3Ar7N6U=; b=ldemAloEy5qhXLoWpsbpEd3CtSs3BeYjODJXJqKNFFNe0XcYfrKIuKcinm1j0TUCFS xI6NGhLHKyadMS/7QigjGXzmcHGratDxitX2pWz/a72piuZaicwgYtwyB41qwFuUpmjG TsFU2n4wCqbq9rbV/eReibjbTUd9c1uPAS9D058cB7iqj1Cb9kchM0BEvejocdUI4SWx 50UK9+0bCt8Cn9lIYFeBp6cEEWyTBA2tSj9wvwX1KLEUARa4uDfu70+ztdy1aW/1p2oh SD9gnS0vyAoITklzFisINoa+SBHKEjuLBH6wDuMSV2gG0FcP9mREQpdGQkGVPZKPB11G fIfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5cyxpYYX7TRdqWYXkVTFHNxf+yLj/fT3ITlF3Ar7N6U=; b=jsmaD7aI4xo0ATQ/BEhL5uAvtXkU3o71Y6lPRj2Vepj925BbYWyq8l+irVXbRVPZvQ Lb7UllA85UOmHEmMVERymZiuTqurX3Hg1FZ05AQcXJFMZob9wDKHugt0UYRFE6hqO1gN KUe72F0OwJW7LQucyknXg99KWAKIK3GvgURO13ePBErzmxaRWiCNftwK31d4fvMVwlSS 8yXr/0yqrfFwOUVwQyT2SawOsdZVRcMGshyXaxvxmINw5IYndRiHVOMwty6NtuurCHPs tTM9/8z1qkEPEZysMPNbi5J5bOvmAFDgybHN0gzjG4yNaewfQyFs3TV6FCjGr+JvzfXA 2A3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUMnozbbDwlLh5zQTQWnmSzVMYTbEDho9pRhNaQWxr384W2wu6M wpLCyrgKnKrCGL6umTWQj8gxgYz5SSIMlaefvUvN5w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Q3pGV8b3F48ektxh9nKpeLP19ikZU2WpjTbvSnRH0QcZBMChEdaWKEa8ifY2sF5oiRhQtRue8azfWW8eeb8kw= X-Received: by 10.176.22.10 with SMTP id k10mr13085271uae.6.1508813177598; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:46:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:46:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:46:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145761a7bb676055c41f1f7" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Manifest Format Considerations X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 02:46:21 -0000 --001a1145761a7bb676055c41f1f7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Depending on what else is happening on the device, JSON or perhaps CBOR would be a desirable format. The scope of the charter should allow the WG to investigate selecting one or more manifest formats. If the charter locks it to this format, it is very unlikely that we would implement this. I think you take a look at what manifests are in widespread use today, one will come to the conclusion that formats other than ASN.1, for example, are widely used in running code. Thanks Suhas Nandakumar --001a1145761a7bb676055c41f1f7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<= br>

Depending on what else is happening on the device, JSON or perhaps CBOR= would be a desirable format. The scope of the charter should allow the WG = to investigate selecting one or more manifest formats. If the charter locks= it to this format, it is very unlikely that we would implement this.=C2=A0= I think you take a look at what manifests are in widespread use today, one= will come to the conclusion that formats other than ASN.1, for example, ar= e widely used in running code.=C2=A0


Thanks

=

Suhas Nandakuma= r

--001a1145761a7bb676055c41f1f7-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 19:48:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D5613B159 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:48:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07qAiNF37HtU for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x22a.google.com (mail-vk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6863313B13E for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id k195so12388676vke.10 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:48:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=64K/epPAntQqFXVHYtFHvaA83YgSWI551gcUAVUWpZE=; b=Ym/cyfSUZBLd9rTb9KjTH4ms9743Wr6k0EyfbXKujvJWCV1Pm0wFAlkXuYR7quHOYG A55AYUJJ/kcb8Yv2TQhvAHtqEuUpwiWresiLcB9D0maCSn8Cnhjgkwr+y/TrmR4lJaK2 sQHzcE2tqpVRIYGDXvW6O/MUX10eg5UM4gpcdQ0Nu+k8QeCbU00cZXlZ1DJNVnBB+xtA 3rv3RT3XjZrs0GYZ9l//WP0cTPMOddo5xT1sTG8RjKCRaMEuJXCDPOkefs1ZXnqgGtLB +CpZKL2VE/FVSaKYddK49bm0CBg/QCa9uHMF20EHeX1IGQlO0j2GbkCE+YeNx3O/pLxW LXaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=64K/epPAntQqFXVHYtFHvaA83YgSWI551gcUAVUWpZE=; b=CAykmSU8Y0NlBZBFkXyq5XFDrI+xFNKZqSshWit0Qr2sScT/5vyImslE0vFwJSnXy+ uuaftJ96L+LnAWaacz4uy3uJtkagr8pK0abA93qy1LIjXvBoZJOXlGoJjizrwmKBSmuq n9mOkwiL6+GRei+glHhVavU2+iSYsh2pfTwYCUQOB23IFEt7bioisonQf6Z3XicrXRAO cwH8jOwsTQPmdEeL+KsKjQT0k2byyZtJbeLQTIC7AlXuxNj3tQG0wRKfEI6JJMfYKSYv uIfuoIHNaSsyNM4DvyxW1dSdtbHGg1Tm+v064FRVw7HxKn60YrIW3wNpVKqixEPkmwqp Rvmw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVyy23YGuWKUCfhPca5Fne4rG+EkqWbYUruqHWnbAhOKUtKJ8id B3KqiZ1XhS3CotrUnqAjVapeQL070sqruafLs607lg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+RkdqMAKxOMRR602vwIUtb08DiJiiN+GNZgQjmxgs8wTwjb4mgvj1UkyyWhJZ0R780mqihzrnjs/ScNf/js4qA= X-Received: by 10.31.180.143 with SMTP id d137mr10358772vkf.40.1508813294431; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:48:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:48:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:48:14 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1143fc2472700e055c41f8b3" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Encrypted Firmware X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 02:48:17 -0000 --001a1143fc2472700e055c41f8b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While reading the manifest/architecture document there was mention to support encrypted firmware. We feel most devices don=E2=80=99t need firmware encrypted. It is also tota= lly an issue specific to that device and the vendor specific. The IETF work can allow encrypted firmware but we don=E2=80=99t think that needs to be specif= ied as it is largely specific to how the IoT device vendor chose to do it. Thanks Suhas Nandakumar --001a1143fc2472700e055c41f8b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


While reading the manifest/architecture document there was mention to supp= ort encrypted firmware.

We feel most devices don=E2=80=99t need firm= ware encrypted. It is also totally an issue specific to that device and the= vendor specific. The IETF work can allow encrypted firmware but we don=E2= =80=99t think that needs to be specified as it is largely specific to how t= he IoT device vendor chose to do it.=C2=A0


=

Thanks

Suhas Nandaku= mar

--001a1143fc2472700e055c41f8b3-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 19:49:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E223C13B133 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:49:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fori7riNYj9l for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x22d.google.com (mail-ua0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88FA113B13C for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 47so14402563uas.8 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:49:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ERsp7D+sg/2y+jVNu2qJlQhFySZmGTjY7sxE9l1QUhI=; b=gnK53ItpaX8R1zPmOp17I88tA7Xn2Tb5K7s+J4a+U0W+J/zqVB2w4ZUW06gU0kmp7a Wtbm8guuUZgSbogM25BXKlL4iuoymIKIxS8FbpL6JPI3NeUg0GEwQFgL2EqksXruR8We jVj1Io6lATIxWuEdW9qn6yZbVuDvSiei7QSg1Lt9eKHNbVvEvBYGtFeVn6l2hCe5Fr5/ 4D7l+HwXZNAlfr++CLYfCkxbghqI4OCy3dpCFD+va5RI1zjn0o3UXBmqV1JiPlf0KEYr qW+gp5WYoIkPQiaL6kZ+ly0/RlZsTQJF4cd3pFyrEmb/cbmv8WZpxqNk7AhUGrLAPb6d S/1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ERsp7D+sg/2y+jVNu2qJlQhFySZmGTjY7sxE9l1QUhI=; b=knGy33zF33Vjr29EwDjEi3o6P26loG1mA10LBdE8FQaVHU/4zGq2hMzsDwFDjlOvf2 td03pBi+LwmAr7ka+eh9jC4f3BJs5EQCrkEW529v2dWCqVPv7A8JBQIiXyyHCfxNcgKL 1IAA38VEhAXUTc2GyY4pREn2GohHgxbmVURlQTBq+dNNNLBe0PryobgokL8by1lzNCAG QhX2LiDbq0ytW0Qt1AqHYkDOR/dUPd4mRlMn2o6JgBWDbE8j6MZn7NabUYhfuIx3zPol 0ACtnkOAlKUsvD7aL8N5JNqXZZXvK+lEM+n35Dn1HUHO33bVns/DYM5DuZZLL8Mh4Nwj 6mnw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXOZ3dIEWLdsDMavupRZTVN7Sd0Iu5+GIOp5yXKj4hVerjEFysl dESnJ0L1VfEZDPMPtfc4Gljk9sIsAZdwIE+gfKN9gg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+R/7QKDMsJdpn0fuuBj9CmoTsj4ne2888rfYKaGQ9YXSTLsfhvq+FnMKEvvNkRtJXhUF28AOkHf+XQ2TvR5LFU= X-Received: by 10.176.16.138 with SMTP id d10mr12142775uab.32.1508813388460; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:49:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:49:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:49:48 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045dd54e0d3671055c41fe30" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Format of the payload X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 02:49:51 -0000 --f403045dd54e0d3671055c41fe30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I wasn't able to understand the reasoning for standardizing payload format. --f403045dd54e0d3671055c41fe30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
I wasn't able to understand the reasoning for standardizing payload format.
--f403045dd54e0d3671055c41fe30-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 22:15:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E3513B551 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 22:15:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eMsCQiIobKqJ for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 22:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A343B13B48C for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <95F448978D90B34EA737B9AD7E9488C5@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Broadcast Delivery X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:15:02 -0000 RGVsaXZlcnkgb2YgZmlybXdhcmUgb3ZlciBhIG11bHRpY2FzdCB0cmFuc3BvcnQgbWVjaGFuaXNt IGlzIHZlcnkgaGFyZCBhbmQgaW52b2x2ZXMgc2lnbmlmaWNhbnQgY29uZ2VzdGlvbiBpc3N1ZS4g SSBkb27igJl0IHRoaW5rIHRoZSBJRVRGIGN1cnJlbnRseSBoYXMgYSB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9j b2wgdGhhdCdzIHJlYWxseSBzdWl0YWJsZSBmb3IgdGhpcy4gSSB3b3VsZCBwcmVmZXIgdG8gc2Vl IHRoZSBXRyBjaGFydGVkIGZvciB0aGlzICB0byBiZSBjbGVhcmx5IG91dCBvZiBzY29wZSBmb3Ig dGhlIGZpcnN0IGRlbGl2ZXJhYmxlLiANCg0KDQo= From nobody Mon Oct 23 22:18:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055CA13B48C for ; 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Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:18:25 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) by XCH-RTP-002.cisco.com (64.101.220.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 01:18:24 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 01:18:24 -0400 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: "suit@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Charter & Regulation Thread-Index: AQHTTIeD9eilK6J6d0iJhe1JbGphcw== Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:18:24 +0000 Message-ID: <12B281EF-DBD9-420F-90E7-86118D16901A@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.19.228.210] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <501AC55E3470FC4EBC394E580137B157@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Charter & Regulation X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:18:27 -0000 DQpUaGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgY2hhcnRlciBzYXlzIOKAnFRoaXMgd29ya3Nob3AgYWxzbyBtYWRlIGNs ZWFyIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBsYWNrIG9mIHJlZ3VsYXRvcnkgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzLCB3aGlj aCBjb250cmlidXRlcyB0byBjaGFsbGVuZ2VzIGFzc29jaWF0ZWQgd2l0aCBtaXNhbGlnbmVkIGlu Y2VudGl2ZXMuIOKAnCAgSSB0aGluayBtYW55IHBlb3BsZSB3b3VsZCByZWFkIHRoYXQgYXMgSUVU RiBjb25zZW5zdXMgdGhhdCB3ZSBuZWVkIHJlZ3VsYXRpb24gaW4gdGhpcyBzcGFjZS4gSSBzZXJp b3VzbHkgZG91YnQgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBJRVRGIGNvbnNlbnN1cyB0aGF0IHdlIG5lZWQgcmVn dWxhdGlvbiBhcm91bmQgZmlybXdhcmUgZG93bmxvYWQuIEkgZmVlbCB0aGF0IHJlZ3VsYXRpb24g d291bGQgYmUgb25lIG9mIHRoZSB3b3JzdCB3YXlzIHRvIGFwcHJvYWNoIHRoaXMgcHJvYmxlbS4g VGhlcmUgaXMgYSBsb3Qgb2YgZmx1ZmYgaW4gdGhpcyBjaGFydGVyIHRoYXQgd291bGQganVzdCBi ZSBiZXR0ZXIgb2ZmIHJlbW92ZWQuDQoNCg0K From nobody Mon Oct 23 22:31:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A1013B9BF for ; 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Mon, 23 Oct 2017 22:31:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 22:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 22:31:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c13a0ccc8f32e055c444069" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:31:41 -0000 --94eb2c13a0ccc8f32e055c444069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of firmware updates we see the industry using run over tftp and http with perhaps coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly allow for a design that allows any one of those three to be use by the IoT device and is to be clear how they are each used. --94eb2c13a0ccc8f32e055c444069 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of fir= mware updates we see=C2=A0 the industry using run over tftp and http with p= erhaps coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly allow fo= r a design that allows any one of those three to be use by the IoT device a= nd is to be clear how they are each used.=C2=A0


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suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C4113D234 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:45:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BdreB9Vkr-ve for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DEC313DA67 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:c876:cfba:896:950c] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:c876:cfba:896:950c]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9E4071720D1; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:45:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Alexander Pelov Message-Id: <563BCDC6-F43D-44B8-AEAB-2ED7F017EBB5@ackl.io> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FB787EB7-9F01-4774-8DA7-D4EAE4AAAAE1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:45:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Suhas Nandakumar , "suit@ietf.org" To: Hannes Tschofenig References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 07:45:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FB787EB7-9F01-4774-8DA7-D4EAE4AAAAE1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Hannes, Thanks for clarifying some of the points and for getting the work = started! Just for my understanding, if I over-simplify, the goal si to define a = manifest format (will all the behavior that is related to it) necessary = to perform secure firmware update for IoT, is this correct? (I imagine the way bindings are defined to the actual L2/L3 protocols = that perform the update would be defined in the manifest file) Best, Alexander > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig = a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > Hi Suhas, > =20 > The beauty of the charter text is that it already allows any transport = mechanism to be used. > =20 > While home routers use HTTP and TFTP lower end IoT devices use CoAP or = distribute the firmware images directly over the link layer protocol. = See, for example, a recent write-up from my co-worker where he is using = the firmware manifest we described and implemented over LoRa with = differential updates: = https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-updates/ = > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =C2=A0 <> > From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Suhas Nandakumar > Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32 > To: suit@ietf.org > Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > =20 > On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of firmware = updates we see the industry using run over tftp and http with perhaps = coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly allow for a = design that allows any one of those three to be use by the IoT device = and is to be clear how they are each used.=20 > =20 > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = --Apple-Mail=_FB787EB7-9F01-4774-8DA7-D4EAE4AAAAE1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Dear Hannes,

Thanks for clarifying some of the = points and for getting the work started!

Just for my understanding, if I = over-simplify, the goal si to define a manifest format (will all the = behavior that is related to it) necessary to perform secure firmware = update for IoT, is this correct?

(I imagine the way bindings are defined = to the actual L2/L3 protocols that perform the update would be defined = in the manifest file)

Best,
Alexander



Le = 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :

Hi Suhas,
 
The beauty of the = charter text is that it already allows any transport mechanism to be = used.
 
While home routers use = HTTP and TFTP lower end IoT devices use CoAP or distribute the firmware = images directly over the link layer protocol. See, for example, a recent = write-up from my co-worker where he is using the firmware manifest we = described and implemented over LoRa with differential updates: https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-u= pdates/
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Suhas = Nandakumar
Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32
To: suit@ietf.org
Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport = Protocol
 
 
On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast = majority of firmware updates we see  the industry using run over = tftp and http with perhaps coap in the future. We think the charter need = to explicitly allow for a design that allows any one of those three to = be use by the IoT device and is to be clear how they are each = used. 
 
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this = email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. = If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender = immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it = for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank = you. _______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit

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-2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iu9CL5NAjOw7 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 01:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:c:538::194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A63713B109 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 01:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:c876:cfba:896:950c] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:c876:cfba:896:950c]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B7E4EC5A94; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 10:00:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Alexander Pelov Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_424B3CBA-C4F5-484F-A4C3-64872F9B67D9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 10:00:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Suhas Nandakumar , "suit@ietf.org" To: Hannes Tschofenig References: <563BCDC6-F43D-44B8-AEAB-2ED7F017EBB5@ackl.io> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:00:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_424B3CBA-C4F5-484F-A4C3-64872F9B67D9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Hannes, Thanks for the quick reply! Ok, I think I understand a little bit = better. So, it=E2=80=99s about the File Format that contains the firmware? (so = that we have nice things, such as signing, verification, delta-updates, = and so forth ?) Alexander > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:56, Hannes Tschofenig = a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > Hi Alexander, > =20 > I believe the work has to start somewhere. > =20 > What do we have today? > =20 > If you are using a general purpose OS, like Linux, then there are lots = of software/firmware update mechanisms available. I know that there are = still problems with using them on devices like home routers but those = problems are often related to non-technical aspects, such as = discontinued support or pushing updates through the long value chain. = (This problem has even been recognized with smart phones.) > =20 > Furthermore, there are also various =E2=80=9Ctransports=E2=80=9D for = getting a firmware image from A-to-B. > =20 > Hence, I had suggested to focus on the gaps that exist today, namely a = standardized firmware format for use with low end IoT devices. > Before we started our implementation work more than 2 years ago there = was not much available in terms of standardized formats. Hence, we used = RFC 4108 as a starting point.=20 > =20 > If we manage to complete this part of the work we will then be able to = use it with a number of transports. Cisco may prefer a HTTPS based = communication with the firmware update server pre-configured. We = continue use our LwM2M approach with CoAP. Maybe someone else will = switch to QUIC in the future or (as some of the low power WAN guys do) = just shuffle it over their radio without using IP. > =20 > Does this make sense? > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > =C2=A0 <> > From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io = ]=20 > Sent: 24 October 2017 09:45 > To: Hannes Tschofenig > Cc: Suhas Nandakumar; suit@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > Dear Hannes, > =20 > Thanks for clarifying some of the points and for getting the work = started! > =20 > Just for my understanding, if I over-simplify, the goal si to define a = manifest format (will all the behavior that is related to it) necessary = to perform secure firmware update for IoT, is this correct? > =20 > (I imagine the way bindings are defined to the actual L2/L3 protocols = that perform the update would be defined in the manifest file) > =20 > Best, > Alexander > =20 > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > Hi Suhas, > =20 > The beauty of the charter text is that it already allows any transport = mechanism to be used. > =20 > While home routers use HTTP and TFTP lower end IoT devices use CoAP or = distribute the firmware images directly over the link layer protocol. = See, for example, a recent write-up from my co-worker where he is using = the firmware manifest we described and implemented over LoRa with = differential updates: = https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-updates/ = > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Suhas Nandakumar > Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32 > To: suit@ietf.org > Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > =20 > On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of firmware = updates we see the industry using run over tftp and http with perhaps = coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly allow for a = design that allows any one of those three to be use by the IoT device = and is to be clear how they are each used.=20 > =20 > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. --Apple-Mail=_424B3CBA-C4F5-484F-A4C3-64872F9B67D9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Hannes,

Thanks for the quick reply! Ok, I think = I understand a little bit better.

So, it=E2=80=99s about the File Format = that contains the firmware? (so that we have nice things, such as = signing, verification, delta-updates, and so forth ?)

Alexander


Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:56, = Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :

Hi Alexander,
 
I believe the work has = to start somewhere.
 
What do we have = today?
 
If you are using a = general purpose OS, like Linux, then there are lots of software/firmware = update mechanisms available. I know that there are still problems with = using them on devices like home routers but those problems are often = related to non-technical aspects, such as discontinued support or = pushing updates through the long value chain. (This problem has even = been recognized with smart phones.)
 
Furthermore, there are = also various =E2=80=9Ctransports=E2=80=9D for getting a firmware image = from A-to-B.
 
Hence, I had suggested = to focus on the gaps that exist today, namely a standardized firmware = format for use with low end IoT devices.
Before we started our implementation work = more than 2 years ago there was not much available in terms of = standardized formats. Hence, we used RFC 4108 as a starting point. 
 
If we manage to = complete this part of the work we will then be able to use it with a = number of transports. Cisco may prefer a HTTPS based communication with = the firmware update server pre-configured. We continue use our LwM2M = approach with CoAP. Maybe someone else will switch to QUIC in the future = or (as some of the low power WAN guys do) just shuffle it over their = radio without using IP.
 
Does this make = sense?
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
From: Alexander = Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io] 
Sent: 24 = October 2017 09:45
To: Hannes Tschofenig
Cc: Suhas Nandakumar; suit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware = Transport Protocol
 
Dear Hannes,
 
Thanks for clarifying some of the points = and for getting the work started!
 
Just for my understanding, if I over-simplify, the = goal si to define a manifest format (will all the behavior that is = related to it) necessary to perform secure firmware update for IoT, is = this correct?
 
(I imagine the way bindings are defined to the actual = L2/L3 protocols that perform the update would be defined in the manifest = file)
 
Best,
Alexander
 
 
 
Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 = 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :
 
Hi = Suhas,
 
The beauty of the charter text is that it = already allows any transport mechanism to be used.
 
While home routers use = HTTP and TFTP lower end IoT devices use CoAP or distribute the firmware = images directly over the link layer protocol. See, for example, a recent = write-up from my co-worker where he is using the firmware manifest we = described and implemented over LoRa with differential updates: https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-u= pdates/
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Suhas = Nandakumar
Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32
To: suit@ietf.org
Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport = Protocol
 
 
On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast = majority of firmware updates we see  the industry using run over = tftp and http with perhaps coap in the future. We think the charter need = to explicitly allow for a design that allows any one of those three to = be use by the IoT device and is to be clear how they are each = used. 
 
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and = any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are = not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do = not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, = or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _____________________________= __________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents = of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be = privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the = sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, = use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. = Thank you.

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MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: arm.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0801MB2706C2DDE4AE660A31444CB4FA470AM4PR0801MB2706_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d54c9d63-876f-4aa1-4a3d-08d51ab6e89c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Oct 2017 08:12:03.0938 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR0801MB2706 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Format of the payload X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:12:08 -0000 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RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8_w1FvP6Dc-x for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 02:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F12F13AF25 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 02:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:c876:cfba:896:950c] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:c876:cfba:896:950c]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1CE9A1720A4; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:08:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Alexander Pelov Message-Id: <08378A64-F473-4A8A-BB26-5F0832AD5598@ackl.io> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2892C4F6-84EF-4737-85EF-0505ED16BAC4" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:08:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "suit@ietf.org" , Suhas Nandakumar To: Hannes Tschofenig References: <563BCDC6-F43D-44B8-AEAB-2ED7F017EBB5@ackl.io> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:08:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2892C4F6-84EF-4737-85EF-0505ED16BAC4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Oh, I see, sounds good ! For information - during the last Yang of Things meeting (which very = unfortunately was in the same time slot as FUD), we discussed the use of = YANG model for this description. (the manifest file then can be = expressed in CBOR, XML, or JSON.. (I=E2=80=99ll be tempted to default to = CBOR). Do you think this could be something of interest for the BoF and for the = follow-up of Suit ? Alexander > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 10:28, Hannes Tschofenig = a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > =C3=98 Thanks for the quick reply! Ok, I think I understand a little = bit better. > =20 > =C3=98 So, it=E2=80=99s about the File Format that contains the = firmware? (so that we have nice things, such as signing, verification, = delta-updates, and so forth ?) > =20 > Yes, it is pretty easy to understand. Just try to implement a firmware = update mechanism and you will notice that the security part is the = complex part. That=E2=80=99s probably not super surprising since we made = this observation already numerous times already with other work in the = IETF. > =20 > If you want to know the details of what we have implemented, just take = a look at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moran-fud-manifest-00 = . As mentioned = earlier, we are polishing our code right now and will release it as open = source (Apache 2 license). > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > Alexander > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:56, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > Hi Alexander, > =20 > I believe the work has to start somewhere. > =20 > What do we have today? > =20 > If you are using a general purpose OS, like Linux, then there are lots = of software/firmware update mechanisms available. I know that there are = still problems with using them on devices like home routers but those = problems are often related to non-technical aspects, such as = discontinued support or pushing updates through the long value chain. = (This problem has even been recognized with smart phones.) > =20 > Furthermore, there are also various =E2=80=9Ctransports=E2=80=9D for = getting a firmware image from A-to-B. > =20 > Hence, I had suggested to focus on the gaps that exist today, namely a = standardized firmware format for use with low end IoT devices. > Before we started our implementation work more than 2 years ago there = was not much available in terms of standardized formats. Hence, we used = RFC 4108 as a starting point.=20 > =20 > If we manage to complete this part of the work we will then be able to = use it with a number of transports. Cisco may prefer a HTTPS based = communication with the firmware update server pre-configured. We = continue use our LwM2M approach with CoAP. Maybe someone else will = switch to QUIC in the future or (as some of the low power WAN guys do) = just shuffle it over their radio without using IP. > =20 > Does this make sense? > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > =20 > From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io = ]=20 > Sent: 24 October 2017 09:45 > To: Hannes Tschofenig > Cc: Suhas Nandakumar; suit@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > Dear Hannes, > =20 > Thanks for clarifying some of the points and for getting the work = started! > =20 > Just for my understanding, if I over-simplify, the goal si to define a = manifest format (will all the behavior that is related to it) necessary = to perform secure firmware update for IoT, is this correct? > =20 > (I imagine the way bindings are defined to the actual L2/L3 protocols = that perform the update would be defined in the manifest file) > =20 > Best, > Alexander > =20 > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > Hi Suhas, > =20 > The beauty of the charter text is that it already allows any transport = mechanism to be used. > =20 > While home routers use HTTP and TFTP lower end IoT devices use CoAP or = distribute the firmware images directly over the link layer protocol. = See, for example, a recent write-up from my co-worker where he is using = the firmware manifest we described and implemented over LoRa with = differential updates: = https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-updates/ = > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Suhas Nandakumar > Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32 > To: suit@ietf.org > Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > =20 > On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of firmware = updates we see the industry using run over tftp and http with perhaps = coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly allow for a = design that allows any one of those three to be use by the IoT device = and is to be clear how they are each used.=20 > =20 > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit --Apple-Mail=_2892C4F6-84EF-4737-85EF-0505ED16BAC4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Oh, I see, sounds good !

For information - during = the last Yang of Things meeting (which very unfortunately was in the = same time slot as FUD), we discussed the use of YANG model for this = description. (the manifest file then can be expressed in CBOR, XML, or = JSON.. (I=E2=80=99ll be tempted to default to CBOR).

Do you think this could = be something of interest for the BoF and for the follow-up of Suit = ?

Alexander





Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 10:28, = Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :

=C3=98  Thanks = for the quick reply! Ok, I think I understand a little bit better.
 
=C3=98  So, = it=E2=80=99s about the File Format that contains the firmware? (so that = we have nice things, such as signing, verification, delta-updates, and = so forth ?)
 
Yes, it is pretty easy = to understand. Just try to implement a firmware update mechanism and you = will notice that the security part is the complex part. That=E2=80=99s = probably not super surprising since we made this observation already = numerous times already with other work in the IETF.
 
If you want to know the = details of what we have implemented, just take a look at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moran-fud-manifest-00. = As mentioned earlier, we are polishing our code right now and will = release it as open source (Apache 2 license).
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
Alexander
 
 
Le = 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:56, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> = a =C3=A9crit :
 
Hi Alexander,
 
I believe the work has = to start somewhere.
 
What do we have = today?
 
If you are using a general purpose OS, = like Linux, then there are lots of software/firmware update mechanisms = available. I know that there are still problems with using them on = devices like home routers but those problems are often related to = non-technical aspects, such as discontinued support or pushing updates = through the long value chain. (This problem has even been recognized = with smart phones.)
 
Furthermore, there are = also various =E2=80=9Ctransports=E2=80=9D for getting a firmware image = from A-to-B.
 
Hence, I had suggested to focus on the = gaps that exist today, namely a standardized firmware format for use = with low end IoT devices.
Before we started our implementation work = more than 2 years ago there was not much available in terms of = standardized formats. Hence, we used RFC 4108 as a starting point. 
 
If we manage to = complete this part of the work we will then be able to use it with a = number of transports. Cisco may prefer a HTTPS based communication with = the firmware update server pre-configured. We continue use our LwM2M = approach with CoAP. Maybe someone else will switch to QUIC in the future = or (as some of the low power WAN guys do) just shuffle it over their = radio without using IP.
 
Does this make = sense?
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
 
From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io] 
Sent: 24 = October 2017 09:45
To: Hannes Tschofenig
Cc: Suhas Nandakumar; suit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware = Transport Protocol
 
Dear Hannes,
 
Thanks for clarifying some of the points = and for getting the work started!
 
Just for my understanding, if I = over-simplify, the goal si to define a manifest format (will all the = behavior that is related to it) necessary to perform secure firmware = update for IoT, is this correct?
 
(I imagine the way bindings are defined = to the actual L2/L3 protocols that perform the update would be defined = in the manifest file)
 
Best,
Alexander
 
 
 
Le = 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :
 
Hi Suhas,
 
The beauty of the charter text is that it = already allows any transport mechanism to be used.
 
While home routers use HTTP and TFTP lower = end IoT devices use CoAP or distribute the firmware images directly over = the link layer protocol. See, for example, a recent write-up from my = co-worker where he is using the firmware manifest we described and = implemented over LoRa with differential updates: https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-u= pdates/
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Suhas = Nandakumar
Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32
To: suit@ietf.org
Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport = Protocol
 
 
On = the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of firmware = updates we see  the industry using run over tftp and http with = perhaps coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly = allow for a design that allows any one of those three to be use by the = IoT device and is to be clear how they are each used. 
 
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _____________________________= __________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents = of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be = privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the = sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, = use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. = Thank you. _______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
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relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:c:538::196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6CAF137832 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 03:46:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: 192.44.77.209 Received: from zax.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (nat-asr-incub-b209.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.77.209]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 941641720A1; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:46:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Alexander Pelov Message-Id: <79A60383-3CA6-461D-8D99-0A8F99D69319@ackl.io> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1930B0C0-05EF-4CBE-AE75-8D8B186C3D6E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:46:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "suit@ietf.org" , Suhas Nandakumar To: Hannes Tschofenig References: <563BCDC6-F43D-44B8-AEAB-2ED7F017EBB5@ackl.io> <08378A64-F473-4A8A-BB26-5F0832AD5598@ackl.io> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 10:47:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1930B0C0-05EF-4CBE-AE75-8D8B186C3D6E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Great! So I think we can converge on the YANG part and if necessary we = can work on it together (there will probably be a YoT side meeting = during IETF 100, so we can actually try to prepare this ahead of the = BoF?) On the encoding: we=E2=80=99re using CBOR in the application layer, so = there are already CBOR encoders in place.=20 I am not sure if we can actually live without ASN.1 (e.g. if we don=E2=80=99= t need X.501 certificates and all the rest).. But this actually brings up an interesting question: - What are the requirements for the manifest file=20 (because, if you but ASN.1 or CBOR there, then it becomes a MUST for the = end-device to support it) ++ Alexander > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 12:39, Hannes Tschofenig = a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > Hi Alexander, > =20 > we have actually thought about exactly doing the same as well (in the = anticipation that the usual encoding discussion comes up). = Unfortunately, our Yang language expertise is a bit limited. (Note that = our interest was really only in Yang as a language for describing the = format rather than in anything else.) > =20 > While the encoding appears to be a fundamental thing it is actually = just a distraction from discussing the semantics of the fields and the = security stuff. > =20 > Regarding your preference for CBOR I will ask you the same question as = I did to Suhas: do you have actually any reasons? > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > <>=20 > From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io]=20 > Sent: 24 October 2017 11:09 > To: Hannes Tschofenig > Cc: suit@ietf.org; Suhas Nandakumar > Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > Oh, I see, sounds good ! > =20 > For information - during the last Yang of Things meeting (which very = unfortunately was in the same time slot as FUD), we discussed the use of = YANG model for this description. (the manifest file then can be = expressed in CBOR, XML, or JSON.. (I=E2=80=99ll be tempted to default to = CBOR). > =20 > Do you think this could be something of interest for the BoF and for = the follow-up of Suit ? > =20 > Alexander > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 10:28, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > =C3=98 Thanks for the quick reply! Ok, I think I understand a little = bit better. > =20 > =C3=98 So, it=E2=80=99s about the File Format that contains the = firmware? (so that we have nice things, such as signing, verification, = delta-updates, and so forth ?) > =20 > Yes, it is pretty easy to understand. Just try to implement a firmware = update mechanism and you will notice that the security part is the = complex part. That=E2=80=99s probably not super surprising since we made = this observation already numerous times already with other work in the = IETF. > =20 > If you want to know the details of what we have implemented, just take = a look at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moran-fud-manifest-00 = . As mentioned = earlier, we are polishing our code right now and will release it as open = source (Apache 2 license). > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > Alexander > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:56, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > Hi Alexander, > =20 > I believe the work has to start somewhere. > =20 > What do we have today? > =20 > If you are using a general purpose OS, like Linux, then there are lots = of software/firmware update mechanisms available. I know that there are = still problems with using them on devices like home routers but those = problems are often related to non-technical aspects, such as = discontinued support or pushing updates through the long value chain. = (This problem has even been recognized with smart phones.) > =20 > Furthermore, there are also various =E2=80=9Ctransports=E2=80=9D for = getting a firmware image from A-to-B. > =20 > Hence, I had suggested to focus on the gaps that exist today, namely a = standardized firmware format for use with low end IoT devices. > Before we started our implementation work more than 2 years ago there = was not much available in terms of standardized formats. Hence, we used = RFC 4108 as a starting point.=20 > =20 > If we manage to complete this part of the work we will then be able to = use it with a number of transports. Cisco may prefer a HTTPS based = communication with the firmware update server pre-configured. We = continue use our LwM2M approach with CoAP. Maybe someone else will = switch to QUIC in the future or (as some of the low power WAN guys do) = just shuffle it over their radio without using IP. > =20 > Does this make sense? > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > =20 > From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io = ]=20 > Sent: 24 October 2017 09:45 > To: Hannes Tschofenig > Cc: Suhas Nandakumar; suit@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > Dear Hannes, > =20 > Thanks for clarifying some of the points and for getting the work = started! > =20 > Just for my understanding, if I over-simplify, the goal si to define a = manifest format (will all the behavior that is related to it) necessary = to perform secure firmware update for IoT, is this correct? > =20 > (I imagine the way bindings are defined to the actual L2/L3 protocols = that perform the update would be defined in the manifest file) > =20 > Best, > Alexander > =20 > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > Hi Suhas, > =20 > The beauty of the charter text is that it already allows any transport = mechanism to be used. > =20 > While home routers use HTTP and TFTP lower end IoT devices use CoAP or = distribute the firmware images directly over the link layer protocol. = See, for example, a recent write-up from my co-worker where he is using = the firmware manifest we described and implemented over LoRa with = differential updates: = https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-updates/ = > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Suhas Nandakumar > Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32 > To: suit@ietf.org > Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > =20 > On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of firmware = updates we see the industry using run over tftp and http with perhaps = coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly allow for a = design that allows any one of those three to be use by the IoT device = and is to be clear how they are each used.=20 > =20 > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. --Apple-Mail=_1930B0C0-05EF-4CBE-AE75-8D8B186C3D6E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Great! So I think we can converge on the YANG = part and if necessary we can work on it together (there will probably be = a YoT side meeting during IETF 100, so we can actually try to prepare = this ahead of the BoF?)

On the encoding: we=E2=80=99re using CBOR in the application = layer, so there are already CBOR encoders in place. 
I am not sure if we can actually live without ASN.1 (e.g. if = we don=E2=80=99t need X.501 certificates and all the rest)..

But this actually brings = up an interesting question:
- What are the = requirements for the manifest file 

(because, if you but ASN.1 or CBOR = there, then it becomes a MUST for the end-device to support = it)

++
Alexander



Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 12:39, = Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :

Hi Alexander,
 
we have actually = thought about exactly doing the same as well (in the anticipation that = the usual encoding discussion comes up). Unfortunately, our Yang = language expertise is a bit limited. (Note that our interest was really = only in Yang as a language for describing the format rather than in = anything else.)
 
While the encoding = appears to be a fundamental thing it is actually just a distraction from = discussing the semantics of the fields and the security stuff.
 
Regarding your = preference for CBOR I will ask you the same question as I did to Suhas: = do you have actually any reasons?
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
From: Alexander = Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io] 
Sent: 24 = October 2017 11:09
To: Hannes Tschofenig
Cc: suit@ietf.org; Suhas = Nandakumar
Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware = Transport Protocol
 
Oh, I see, sounds = good !
 
For information - during the last Yang of Things = meeting (which very unfortunately was in the same time slot as FUD), we = discussed the use of YANG model for this description. (the manifest file = then can be expressed in CBOR, XML, or JSON.. (I=E2=80=99ll be tempted = to default to CBOR).
 
Do you think this could be something of interest for = the BoF and for the follow-up of Suit ?
 
Alexander
 
 
 
 
 
Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 = 10:28, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :
 
=C3=98  Thanks for the quick = reply! Ok, I think I understand a little bit better.
 
=C3=98  So, it=E2=80=99s = about the File Format that contains the firmware? (so that we have nice = things, such as signing, verification, delta-updates, and so forth = ?)
 
Yes, it is pretty easy = to understand. Just try to implement a firmware update mechanism and you = will notice that the security part is the complex part. That=E2=80=99s = probably not super surprising since we made this observation already = numerous times already with other work in the IETF.
 
 
Alexander
 
 
 
Hi = Alexander,
 
I = believe the work has to start somewhere.
 
What do we have today?
 
If you are using a general purpose OS, = like Linux, then there are lots of software/firmware update mechanisms = available. I know that there are still problems with using them on = devices like home routers but those problems are often related to = non-technical aspects, such as discontinued support or pushing updates = through the long value chain. (This problem has even been recognized = with smart phones.)
 
Furthermore, there are also various =E2=80=9Ctransports=E2=80=9D= for getting a firmware image from A-to-B.
 
Hence, I had suggested to focus on the = gaps that exist today, namely a standardized firmware format for use = with low end IoT devices.
Before we started our implementation work more than 2 years = ago there was not much available in terms of standardized formats. = Hence, we used RFC 4108 as a starting point. 
 
If we manage to complete this part of the = work we will then be able to use it with a number of transports. Cisco = may prefer a HTTPS based communication with the firmware update server = pre-configured. We continue use our LwM2M approach with CoAP. Maybe = someone else will switch to QUIC in the future or (as some of the low = power WAN guys do) just shuffle it over their radio without using = IP.
 
Does this make sense?
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
 
From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io] 
Sent: 24 = October 2017 09:45
To: Hannes Tschofenig
Cc: Suhas Nandakumar; suit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware = Transport Protocol
 
Dear Hannes,
 
Thanks for clarifying some of the points and for getting the = work started!
 
Just for my understanding, if I over-simplify, the goal si to = define a manifest format (will all the behavior that is related to it) = necessary to perform secure firmware update for IoT, is this = correct?
 
(I imagine the way bindings are defined to the actual L2/L3 = protocols that perform the update would be defined in the manifest = file)
 
Best,
Alexander
 
 
 
Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:20, Hannes = Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :
 
Hi Suhas,
 
The beauty of the charter text is that it = already allows any transport mechanism to be used.
 
While home routers use HTTP and TFTP lower = end IoT devices use CoAP or distribute the firmware images directly over = the link layer protocol. See, for example, a recent write-up from my = co-worker where he is using the firmware manifest we described and = implemented over LoRa with differential updates: https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-u= pdates/
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Suhas = Nandakumar
Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32
To: suit@ietf.org
Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport = Protocol
 
 
On = the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of firmware = updates we see  the industry using run over tftp and http with = perhaps coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly = allow for a design that allows any one of those three to be use by the = IoT device and is to be clear how they are each used. 
 
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _____________________________= __________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _____________________________= __________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents = of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be = privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the = sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, = use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. = Thank you.
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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCF613F3CF for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:35:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6tlBpYJF1TLM for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp106.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp106.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDD3013F3D0 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp30.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp30.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0962A5663; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:35:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: fluffy@iii.ca Received: by smtp30.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: fluffy-AT-iii.ca) with ESMTPSA id 84C4E556D; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:35:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: fluffy@iii.ca Received: from [10.1.3.55] (S0106004268479ae3.cg.shawcable.net [70.77.44.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:35:15 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Cullen Jennings In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:35:13 -0600 Cc: Suhas Nandakumar , "suit@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0124B002-051C-4761-B1E9-37DECBE4B8F7@iii.ca> References: To: Hannes Tschofenig X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Suit - Charter Considerations and Thoughts X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:35:17 -0000 > On Oct 24, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: >=20 > Regarding the charter comments I believe you misunderstand this effort = a bit. The proposed work is actually not about the download of the = firmware but instead focuses about the meta-data and security wrapper = around the firmware/software. The whole point of having a BOF is to try and figure out what the scope = of the work should be.=20= From nobody Tue Oct 24 05:44:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D9813F3D0 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:44:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a7lOymWwIyl1 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp106.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp106.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9830413F751 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp38.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp38.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 93E52590B; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:44:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: fluffy@iii.ca Received: by smtp38.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: fluffy-AT-iii.ca) with ESMTPSA id 0218D5628; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:44:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: fluffy@iii.ca Received: from [10.1.3.55] (S0106004268479ae3.cg.shawcable.net [70.77.44.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:44:20 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Cullen Jennings In-Reply-To: <08378A64-F473-4A8A-BB26-5F0832AD5598@ackl.io> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:44:18 -0600 Cc: Hannes Tschofenig , Suhas Nandakumar , "suit@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <187D0095-3B7A-492D-A3DD-849B4C997E92@iii.ca> References: <563BCDC6-F43D-44B8-AEAB-2ED7F017EBB5@ackl.io> <08378A64-F473-4A8A-BB26-5F0832AD5598@ackl.io> To: Alexander Pelov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:44:27 -0000 > On Oct 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Alexander Pelov = wrote: >=20 > Oh, I see, sounds good ! >=20 > For information - during the last Yang of Things meeting (which very = unfortunately was in the same time slot as FUD), we discussed the use of = YANG model for this description. (the manifest file then can be = expressed in CBOR, XML, or JSON.. (I=E2=80=99ll be tempted to default to = CBOR). >=20 > Do you think this could be something of interest for the BoF and for = the follow-up of Suit ? >=20 > Alexander >=20 A bunch of the management systems that need to deal with keeping track = of what is running on the IoT device and more and more moving to yang so = I think that would be very well worth considering as a way to express = the data model for the manifest.=20= From nobody Tue Oct 24 05:45:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCA413F72E for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 05:45:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM4PR0801MB2708; H:AM4PR0801MB2706.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: arm.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d6881ff9-62ba-42e5-af72-08d51add1298 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Oct 2017 12:45:14.3321 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR0801MB2708 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Suit - Charter Considerations and Thoughts X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:45:19 -0000 > The whole point of having a BOF is to try and figure out what the scope o= f the work should be. I am sure you have been aware that there have been efforts to form a WG wit= hout having a BOF, an option ADs have at their disposal. Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8fd65de4-9cd1-4a61-5eaf-08d51addef86 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Oct 2017 12:51:25.0198 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR0801MB2705 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:51:31 -0000 PiBBIGJ1bmNoIG9mIHRoZSBtYW5hZ2VtZW50IHN5c3RlbXMgdGhhdCBuZWVkIHRvIGRlYWwgd2l0 aCBrZWVwaW5nIHRyYWNrIG9mIHdoYXQgaXMgcnVubmluZyBvbiB0aGUgSW9UIGRldmljZSBhbmQg bW9yZSBhbmQgbW9yZSBtb3ZpbmcgdG8geWFuZyBzbyBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgdmVy eSB3ZWxsIHdvcnRoIGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIGFzICBhIHdheSB0byBleHByZXNzIHRoZSBkYXRhIG1v ZGVsIGZvciB0aGUgbWFuaWZlc3QuDQoNCk5vdGUgdGhhdCBBbGV4YW5kZXIgd2FzIHByb3Bvc2lu ZyAiWWFuZyIgYXMgdGhlIGRhdGEgbW9kZWxsaW5nIGxhbmd1YWdlLCBzZWUgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWFiLm9yZy93cC1jb250ZW50L0lBQi11cGxvYWRzLzIwMTYvMDMvSW9ULXlhbmctYmNsYWlzZS5w ZGYuDQpJTVBPUlRBTlQgTk9USUNFOiBUaGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55 IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIGFyZSBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIG1heSBhbHNvIGJlIHByaXZpbGVnZWQu IElmIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhl IHNlbmRlciBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBhbmQgZG8gbm90IGRpc2Nsb3NlIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyB0byBh bnkgb3RoZXIgcGVyc29uLCB1c2UgaXQgZm9yIGFueSBwdXJwb3NlLCBvciBzdG9yZSBvciBjb3B5 IHRoZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpbiBhbnkgbWVkaXVtLiBUaGFuayB5b3UuDQo= From nobody Tue Oct 24 06:04:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C962413F412 for ; 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[209.6.124.204]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d1sm181510qka.78.2017.10.24.06.04.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kathleen Moriarty X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:04:10 -0400 Cc: Cullen Jennings , "suit@ietf.org" , Suhas Nandakumar Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0124B002-051C-4761-B1E9-37DECBE4B8F7@iii.ca> To: Hannes Tschofenig Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Suit - Charter Considerations and Thoughts X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:04:15 -0000 Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2017, at 8:45 AM, Hannes Tschofenig w= rote: >> The whole point of having a BOF is to try and figure out what the scope o= f the work should be. >=20 > I am sure you have been aware that there have been efforts to form a WG wi= thout having a BOF, an option ADs have at their disposal. If there's no open discussion on the charter and it's been sufficiently addr= essed, a charter can be approved. If it needs to be discussed, a BoF is hel= pful for high bandwidth conversations. The charter is in internal review right now, then goes to external review. I= t doesn't complete external review until the discussions have completed (in s= ome way). More should weigh in on this thread to help with scope and determine if this= proposal would fit or require a second WG. Best regards, Kathleen=20 >=20 > Ciao > Hannes >=20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confi= dential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any o= ther person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any= medium. Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit From nobody Tue Oct 24 06:31:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F7613F4FC for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:31:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ke6NvpeFGrFK for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x231.google.com (mail-oi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10A3E13F3D5 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x231.google.com with SMTP id h6so36885168oia.10 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:30:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1Q3l1S7NsMKtE1UHXe1R7/w4CiWM4iYuAX/55R8AIbM=; b=eCBHI7rdzi7HpL48z9a+sadoD7ficNHZmf0aENR+U9WRQoy4sIN6ui3loNpeg4XoOS W28YRKPVyl0MULatGwE7HWclI4OnA3XMImir8fdVDvsC0efl2XZJRMmx/H8Fg4G3WJZv pj0SRdFTzMpqOyZZAwiJzeuY+lJowGIk5N5YC2AYJI4OtcsbGZXqTXqVTQWsuSXQEag1 XiMWqx5f3Pwm0B9eG2khZ0fkNlS19nteh3euGriqQDcogg+YujAgJcFcNe/gwDE7Knsl nk6UOiKi8uzIWGs/DxXJXq67NSJkZ2B7d4RL68iYGaraT16Yo2XwtX44N14dgTC7UlEZ iBlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id:subject :to; bh=1Q3l1S7NsMKtE1UHXe1R7/w4CiWM4iYuAX/55R8AIbM=; b=evhUAW6uPgIyNgogz2gNHttBts90zBYe1RSe5b6+hiy6ykHOOa+nBtnW+L6Fj56BSz R7SCo3XRmy9bGdtCkSVRMDm6YF4esyMwTdYDimUqo3rCnBUOnn/jp1t4y0JWVnTI509S Oh8rnGCP7ykljTOnJkJe51nyjIRrJK85lkfF680oXsvlhBaDxIQQUdQOdLq1KubiBtKr ZSErvpik+P1lv+HwKoEaznr5ky81IzPqkOl1cRonTlVAod7cauX0lAnj11fFA1BNCP6O dm6+SHRSAxWthlT9nYFVbPG/bjHOSUIfimXItkwgQwQ7Tus/UB0WyO5kNsSJPDmjB6Hh wu1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUG8VM3mWn+BPJzVHRTtM5T5mVJfC4U9Jt0t7u3bX28weAdVWNm p8skACm5a+HLIO66czTNCJ8DoeUFf9AxlQVsB38Ntg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TG9JhqwVo7w3cWjvvjnEAIub4XOmePRgNmutuTY5bYOXoaXO+VBf29MVtSOudmjjAJkj/03IPcesxz+H+PB/s= X-Received: by 10.202.58.194 with SMTP id h185mr7834873oia.99.1508851857980; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:30:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: hallam@gmail.com Received: by 10.157.80.42 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:30:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Phillip Hallam-Baker Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:30:57 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: bk8R7tEwgcWfwIV59WbwsG6Eq-0 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Transactional updates X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:31:10 -0000 I don't know about you, but I am fed up of the time it takes for software updates on my desktop. First the update has to be downloaded and then it has to be installed. Why can't this be instantaneous? What I would like is to download the software update and then tell the O/S to simply overlay the update on top of the file system as an atomic operation. So installing a software update takes a millisecond, no more. Rolling back a software update is just a matter of telling the O/S to stop applying the overlay. It seems to me that this sort of capability would be very useful at the device level as well. Even more so as the chief concern in any software update scheme is that you end up bricking a device. Building the ability to roll updates forwards and backwards is powerful. I would also like this to be integrated into software signing and in an intelligent fashion so that the signature encompasses both the code and the data and it is possible to validate components independently. There is of course going to be a cost and it is the need for storage. The traditional file system organization is a response to highly constrained storage. I have not yet fully considered space optimizations because I have been thinking about the constrained device but I think my approach could be modified for a fairly constrained device. My approach is not going to be appropriate for your PIC controllers but it is definitely feasible at the Arduino level and above. My approach is based on a Merkle Tree based container format. This may sound intimidating but it shouldn't be. I designed, documented and implemented the scheme in under a week: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-jbcd-container-00 or in HTML with diagrams at http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-jbcd-container.html The draft describes a container format that consists of a sequence of variable length chunks that has the property that the sequence can be traversed with equal efficiency in the forward and reverse directions. This can optionally be indexed via a binary tree to allow random access to any frame in log(n) time. Chain and (Merkle) tree digests may be constructed which may be signed. Each frame consists of a header and an optional payload. The payload may be encrypted and/or signed using JOSE. The only fixed requirement for the header encoding is that frame 0 has to have a header encoded in JSON (for interop). The code supports use of JSON, JSON-B, JSON-C and ASN.1 for header encoding, the container uses JSON-B frame encoding because it has to support the read in either direction property. The original concept here was to provide an append only container format that could be used as the basis for synchronizing Mesh portal logs between nodes and also as an encryption format for end-to-end encrypted Web sites. Static content is straightforward, but people expect to be able to support applications like Web forums. The idea was to see if we could support a Web forum run on a cloud server that does not have the ability to read any of the content (yes). The authentication scope is intentionally limited to the payloads, and the signature parameters. The headers are not authenticated which allows them to be mutable. A device may store the whole update as a single file or break it apart into attachments. The latter approach making garbage collection of unused attachments possible without a separate sweep/collect cycle. I am not sure that the encryption capability is needed for software update but it might turn out to be useful allowing devices to be shipped with code for a wide range of applications and only enabling the specific modules required. I do not like devices to have more code than is necessary for their purpose. Authentication is obviously necessary. The way I would see this applied to software update is that the device/desktop would download and verify the incremental updates as a background task (when bandwidth permits). It would then request user permission to apply the update (if required) and set a flag internally telling the loader to use the new version in place of the old. Any processes that needed to be restarted would be restarted. This could be used to effect updates across multiple devices at the same time. It could also allow support for features such as testing the configuration and performing an automatic rollback if the test failed. Besides providing a more secure process, this provides a better user experience. The code required to support the container format is comparable to that required to implement a SHA-2 or the like. implementation in a TPM or such would be entirely feasible. From nobody Tue Oct 24 07:44:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DC313F800 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 07:44:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yQ6JHYna3PPR for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 07:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur01on0073.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.0.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF562138BDB for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b12ce7ff-2f2c-438d-4133-08d51aedb20e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Oct 2017 14:44:13.8705 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR0801MB2706 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Transactional updates X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:44:21 -0000 Hi PHP Thanks for the contribution. I am trying to find out what problem you are primarily trying to solve. Yo= u list lots of topics below. Let me start with one item where you write: "I am fed up of the time it takes for software updates on my desktop. First= the update has to be downloaded and then it has to be installed. Why can't= this be instantaneous?" Clearly, you cannot install software / firmware that has not been downloade= d yet. You are not complaining about the slow transfer rate (although this = might be a serious issue with many low power radio technologies). You aren'= t talking about differential updates or updates of individual libraries. Fi= nally, you are not asking for a hitless update either. I feel like I am reading that you want to write the downloaded code directl= y over the code that is being executed. That cannot be true either. So, could you explain your first point in more detail? Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phillip Hallam-Baker Sent: 24 October 2017 15:31 To: suit@ietf.org Subject: [Suit] Transactional updates I don't know about you, but I am fed up of the time it takes for software u= pdates on my desktop. First the update has to be downloaded and then it has= to be installed. Why can't this be instantaneous? What I would like is to download the software update and then tell the O/S = to simply overlay the update on top of the file system as an atomic operati= on. So installing a software update takes a millisecond, no more. Rolling back a software update is just a matter of telling the O/S to stop = applying the overlay. It seems to me that this sort of capability would be very useful at the dev= ice level as well. Even more so as the chief concern in any software update= scheme is that you end up bricking a device. Building the ability to roll = updates forwards and backwards is powerful. I would also like this to be integrated into software signing and in an int= elligent fashion so that the signature encompasses both the code and the da= ta and it is possible to validate components independently. There is of course going to be a cost and it is the need for storage. The traditional file system organization is a response to highly constraine= d storage. I have not yet fully considered space optimizations because I ha= ve been thinking about the constrained device but I think my approach could= be modified for a fairly constrained device. My approach is not going to b= e appropriate for your PIC controllers but it is definitely feasible at the= Arduino level and above. My approach is based on a Merkle Tree based container format. This may soun= d intimidating but it shouldn't be. I designed, documented and implemented = the scheme in under a week: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-jbcd-container-00 or in HTML with diagrams at http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-jbcd-container.html The draft describes a container format that consists of a sequence of varia= ble length chunks that has the property that the sequence can be traversed = with equal efficiency in the forward and reverse directions. This can optionally be indexed via a binary tree to allow random access to = any frame in log(n) time. Chain and (Merkle) tree digests may be constructe= d which may be signed. Each frame consists of a header and an optional payload. The payload may be= encrypted and/or signed using JOSE. The only fixed requirement for the hea= der encoding is that frame 0 has to have a header encoded in JSON (for inte= rop). The code supports use of JSON, JSON-B, JSON-C and ASN.1 for header en= coding, the container uses JSON-B frame encoding because it has to support = the read in either direction property. The original concept here was to provide an append only container format th= at could be used as the basis for synchronizing Mesh portal logs between no= des and also as an encryption format for end-to-end encrypted Web sites. St= atic content is straightforward, but people expect to be able to support ap= plications like Web forums. The idea was to see if we could support a Web f= orum run on a cloud server that does not have the ability to read any of th= e content (yes). The authentication scope is intentionally limited to the payloads, and the = signature parameters. The headers are not authenticated which allows them t= o be mutable. A device may store the whole update as a single file or break= it apart into attachments. The latter approach making garbage collection o= f unused attachments possible without a separate sweep/collect cycle. I am not sure that the encryption capability is needed for software update = but it might turn out to be useful allowing devices to be shipped with code= for a wide range of applications and only enabling the specific modules re= quired. I do not like devices to have more code than is necessary for their= purpose. Authentication is obviously necessary. The way I would see this applied to software update is that the device/desk= top would download and verify the incremental updates as a background task = (when bandwidth permits). It would then request user permission to apply th= e update (if required) and set a flag internally telling the loader to use = the new version in place of the old. Any processes that needed to be restar= ted would be restarted. This could be used to effect updates across multiple devices at the same ti= me. It could also allow support for features such as testing the configurat= ion and performing an automatic rollback if the test failed. Besides providing a more secure process, this provides a better user experi= ence. The code required to support the container format is comparable to that req= uired to implement a SHA-2 or the like. implementation in a TPM or such wou= ld be entirely feasible. _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Tue Oct 24 08:16:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77B9138C11 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:16:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bG1OX_668W8s for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7827E13D294 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id a132so37479103oih.11 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:16:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DyvK4zLurDTqHoUN2QmK1GSrsYiLHmav93+JTEkWUU8=; b=riYKiyACJJt/A63IfOxx5xPCyTHhZ4YmhuQmfbPI4oo07H4Hn+hSKPDaoj1mNy/Tit q7cuzrS4UJhVyREU4kklXcCOYcNcI7WyUkk6jUKfRYN0uV2fnqz6f542KaBEONi0680R vgQIQsjq3jQtW1IqvDMf5RpuuDmFDNLMcrfXpz59/9ZBpvIUHGuJHpkDZfoC70l42arQ eNLYV2Kke8Mb3sKjJlhn4lU45c+vTKQjU92mu9Mr+l4DLW8fXIo9/7QI07Tim/cAVkzC 0vn78rdF/nw2sNyd69m3WIUYHJryAylNVVM4F4INg1GsoGDyH7Cr4CE5O3H93q7TWNJx rRVQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DyvK4zLurDTqHoUN2QmK1GSrsYiLHmav93+JTEkWUU8=; b=OWVIcx2Hd/Pdug6sEzPvhM3H69tHuNQHP1pgsyWRRNdhT2rdVh8T0L86nKPKXRNHPZ 2c9qlEjItoHVboPsu8oji2na8MosFA6qnvZiZGa1EkXrQaEnROGf64weYS7x4BQllvEv ROM7BWyND7nheFLqWu1ccMkVVrsi17b+bh3Je7LucJ6nPXT9uenHGNTVL0b7wwC3kLvz v9xOtcFGM6uI6AMN++O7I0CaRl38N5gltqHJ2eHZnm4LDw1uT5HnmuDHDHDKmt2otvVB hI2B+6pWbjmU85NQqE8Caf7Xw0uDv00DHu/S7G2rtQVkr3TOVsKudLDaWm0bPvK88iOh zNqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVU2Gu/gO6gDxi6GIh6p4jOP6/TtzcDrTl/WYjOnRz7cijJ0Bjr uXcbKH1bGr+Omwx2K+u6EPviiFtG0EW/YRghAeo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+T8xPpMvFy23Gwt9YuISQu+V/43nATXWvOvw6PrQVS95SxpAD/NBaynD9kMPtvlIXGr5738IGWQ3t9FS1mVlpc= X-Received: by 10.157.29.231 with SMTP id w36mr10382444otw.162.1508858186477; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:16:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: hallam@gmail.com Received: by 10.157.80.42 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:16:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Phillip Hallam-Baker Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:16:25 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: GbVr7IqI-nd9uF8fp2s43ft5MsA Message-ID: To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: "suit@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Transactional updates X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:16:30 -0000 On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Hi PHP > > Thanks for the contribution. > > I am trying to find out what problem you are primarily trying to solve. = You list lots of topics below. Let me start with one item where you write: > > "I am fed up of the time it takes for software updates on my desktop. Fir= st the update has to be downloaded and then it has to be installed. Why can= 't this be instantaneous?" > > Clearly, you cannot install software / firmware that has not been downloa= ded yet. You are not complaining about the slow transfer rate (although thi= s might be a serious issue with many low power radio technologies). You are= n't talking about differential updates or updates of individual libraries. = Finally, you are not asking for a hitless update either. Lets look at the sequence of events 1) Download the software update 2) Unpack and write files to directories 3) Stop and restart processes or reboot. Each of these need to occur obviously and in many cases user permission is required at at least one point in the process. But the user experience for the desktop right now is: 1) Informed there is an update 2) Pestered into downloading the update, promised it will be applied automatically 3) Open machine to discover that the update could not be applied because software I don't care about was running. 4) Apply the update manually 5) Wait 15 minutes 6) Use machine. Another vendor has a different approach. I turn the machine on first thing in the morning and it tells me it needs to start applying updates. Neither of these approaches is going to be remotely acceptable for IoT because the whole point is to save time and you can't save time if you are giving people systems administration tasks. IoT is the harder use case with lower capability devices. It has to be possible for the process to take place automatically and transparently with the only input from the user (if any) being to authorize roll forward to the new software or to force a rollback to the old. So my preferred implementation would be 1) Detect and download update. This is done under prior user permission. 1a) Authenticate and validate. 2) Request user permission (if required, may be granted remotely) 3) Apply update atomically (may be scheduled) 4) Test (optional) Rollback if failed. > I feel like I am reading that you want to write the downloaded code direc= tly over the code that is being executed. That cannot be true either. No. What I am saying is that the device acquires the updates and stores them somewhere. Then it compiles whatever local index is required to access them and switches from one index to the other as an atomic operation. We seem to be fixed in the 1970s notion of files in directories. This is merely an abstraction what we have in storage is a sequence of bits. If all we require is read access, we can store data in a zip file and read it as efficiently as if it was a set of separate files broken out on disk. We have to run the reader code on the constrained device of course. But file creation can take place on a real machine with real resources. > So, could you explain your first point in more detail? > > Ciao > Hannes > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phillip Hallam-Bak= er > Sent: 24 October 2017 15:31 > To: suit@ietf.org > Subject: [Suit] Transactional updates > > I don't know about you, but I am fed up of the time it takes for software= updates on my desktop. First the update has to be downloaded and then it h= as to be installed. Why can't this be instantaneous? > > What I would like is to download the software update and then tell the O/= S to simply overlay the update on top of the file system as an atomic opera= tion. So installing a software update takes a millisecond, no more. > > Rolling back a software update is just a matter of telling the O/S to sto= p applying the overlay. > > It seems to me that this sort of capability would be very useful at the d= evice level as well. Even more so as the chief concern in any software upda= te scheme is that you end up bricking a device. Building the ability to rol= l updates forwards and backwards is powerful. > > I would also like this to be integrated into software signing and in an i= ntelligent fashion so that the signature encompasses both the code and the = data and it is possible to validate components independently. > > > There is of course going to be a cost and it is the need for storage. > The traditional file system organization is a response to highly constrai= ned storage. I have not yet fully considered space optimizations because I = have been thinking about the constrained device but I think my approach cou= ld be modified for a fairly constrained device. My approach is not going to= be appropriate for your PIC controllers but it is definitely feasible at t= he Arduino level and above. > > My approach is based on a Merkle Tree based container format. This may so= und intimidating but it shouldn't be. I designed, documented and implemente= d the scheme in under a week: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-jbcd-container-00 > > or in HTML with diagrams at > > http://prismproof.org/Documents/draft-hallambaker-jbcd-container.html > > > The draft describes a container format that consists of a sequence of var= iable length chunks that has the property that the sequence can be traverse= d with equal efficiency in the forward and reverse directions. > This can optionally be indexed via a binary tree to allow random access t= o any frame in log(n) time. Chain and (Merkle) tree digests may be construc= ted which may be signed. > > Each frame consists of a header and an optional payload. The payload may = be encrypted and/or signed using JOSE. The only fixed requirement for the h= eader encoding is that frame 0 has to have a header encoded in JSON (for in= terop). The code supports use of JSON, JSON-B, JSON-C and ASN.1 for header = encoding, the container uses JSON-B frame encoding because it has to suppor= t the read in either direction property. > > The original concept here was to provide an append only container format = that could be used as the basis for synchronizing Mesh portal logs between = nodes and also as an encryption format for end-to-end encrypted Web sites. = Static content is straightforward, but people expect to be able to support = applications like Web forums. The idea was to see if we could support a Web= forum run on a cloud server that does not have the ability to read any of = the content (yes). > > The authentication scope is intentionally limited to the payloads, and th= e signature parameters. The headers are not authenticated which allows them= to be mutable. A device may store the whole update as a single file or bre= ak it apart into attachments. The latter approach making garbage collection= of unused attachments possible without a separate sweep/collect cycle. > > > I am not sure that the encryption capability is needed for software updat= e but it might turn out to be useful allowing devices to be shipped with co= de for a wide range of applications and only enabling the specific modules = required. I do not like devices to have more code than is necessary for the= ir purpose. Authentication is obviously necessary. > > The way I would see this applied to software update is that the device/de= sktop would download and verify the incremental updates as a background tas= k (when bandwidth permits). It would then request user permission to apply = the update (if required) and set a flag internally telling the loader to us= e the new version in place of the old. Any processes that needed to be rest= arted would be restarted. > > This could be used to effect updates across multiple devices at the same = time. It could also allow support for features such as testing the configur= ation and performing an automatic rollback if the test failed. > > > Besides providing a more secure process, this provides a better user expe= rience. > > The code required to support the container format is comparable to that r= equired to implement a SHA-2 or the like. implementation in a TPM or such w= ould be entirely feasible. > > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are conf= idential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,= please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to a= ny other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information i= n any medium. Thank you. From nobody Tue Oct 24 08:58:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29CD513941E for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:58:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gAShhBNN8lBN for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com 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YXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBkbyBub3QgZGlzY2xvc2UgdGhl IGNvbnRlbnRzIHRvIGFueSBvdGhlciBwZXJzb24sIHVzZSBpdCBmb3IgYW55IHB1cnBvc2UsIG9y IHN0b3JlIG9yIGNvcHkgdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGluIGFueSBtZWRpdW0uIFRoYW5rIHlvdS4N CklNUE9SVEFOVCBOT1RJQ0U6IFRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIGFuZCBhbnkgYXR0 YWNobWVudHMgYXJlIGNvbmZpZGVudGlhbCBhbmQgbWF5IGFsc28gYmUgcHJpdmlsZWdlZC4gSWYg eW91IGFyZSBub3QgdGhlIGludGVuZGVkIHJlY2lwaWVudCwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2Vu ZGVyIGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBkbyBub3QgZGlzY2xvc2UgdGhlIGNvbnRlbnRzIHRvIGFueSBv dGhlciBwZXJzb24sIHVzZSBpdCBmb3IgYW55IHB1cnBvc2UsIG9yIHN0b3JlIG9yIGNvcHkgdGhl IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGluIGFueSBtZWRpdW0uIFRoYW5rIHlvdS4NCg== From nobody Tue Oct 24 09:34:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A941F139553 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:34:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO 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(CEST) From: Alexander Pelov Message-Id: <388CD4A3-C17C-4D21-8306-D0810B99BDCC@ackl.io> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_23399AC5-3355-46AE-906F-D76E5E359D6C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:34:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Suhas Nandakumar , "suit@ietf.org" To: Hannes Tschofenig References: <563BCDC6-F43D-44B8-AEAB-2ED7F017EBB5@ackl.io> <08378A64-F473-4A8A-BB26-5F0832AD5598@ackl.io> <79A60383-3CA6-461D-8D99-0A8F99D69319@ackl.io> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:34:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_23399AC5-3355-46AE-906F-D76E5E359D6C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Hannes, > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 12:59, Hannes Tschofenig = a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > Hi Alexander, > =20 > Great! So I think we can converge on the YANG part and if necessary we = can work on it together (there will probably be a YoT side meeting = during IETF 100, so we can actually try to prepare this ahead of the = BoF?) > =20 > Sounds good. > =20 > On the encoding: we=E2=80=99re using CBOR in the application layer, so = there are already CBOR encoders in place.=20 > I am not sure if we can actually live without ASN.1 (e.g. if we = don=E2=80=99t need X.501 certificates and all the rest).. > =20 > You would need COSE in addition since CBOR itself just defines the = encoding. > =20 > Currently our description explains what we had implemented and the = solution is based on asymmetric crypto and the use of X.509 = certificates. While it is possible to use raw public keys our experience = with the industrial sector has been that they are somewhat conservative = and want to re-use their existing infrastructure. When you use X.509 = certs then you will also have an ASN.1 parser. Even if you use COSE you = are most likely going to have an ASN.1 parser since the requirements for = X.509 certs will not magically go away when you switch to a different = encoding. > =20 > As a consequence, yo you will have to implement COSE, CBOR, and the = ASN.1 parser. Furthermore, the functionality of a firmware update = mechanism makes it quite security sensitive and hence you will put the = code into the bootloader (Brendan provided more details in earlier email = exchanges on the FUD list). ASN.1 parsers are widely available (since = they are part of every security stack these days) and their quality is = quite high.=20 > =20 > We raised the question about the use of symmetric key cryptography = since this is something we had mixed feelings about but nobody = responded. On one hand it is a more efficient mechanism but on the other = hand it provides weaker security properties. > =20 > But this actually brings up an interesting question: > - What are the requirements for the manifest file=20 > (because, if you but ASN.1 or CBOR there, then it becomes a MUST for = the end-device to support it) > =20 > Could you explain your question a bit more? Thanks for the detailed explanation. Actually it is what I meant by = saying about the =E2=80=98MUST=E2=80=99 statement. The question is, will a device which supports SUIT be required to = implement X.501 certificates? (I am not against - I like them quite a = lot). Another way to say it - what is the scope of SUIT? Is it X.509-only = based firmware update system for IoT? (including the future architecture = that will be defined and so forth)? Are we going to start with X.509 and then add other as we continue? Is the focus primarily on the Manifest file (and thus, the importance to = chose one path), or is it on the process (and thus potentially allow for = several mechanisms)? I don=E2=80=99t think we should make a complex solution - and I would = encourage a simple one that works. I think it would benefit if we try to = narrow down before / during the BoF on these points. ++ Alexander > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > =20 > =20 > ++ > Alexander > =20 > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 12:39, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > Hi Alexander, > =20 > we have actually thought about exactly doing the same as well (in the = anticipation that the usual encoding discussion comes up). = Unfortunately, our Yang language expertise is a bit limited. (Note that = our interest was really only in Yang as a language for describing the = format rather than in anything else.) > =20 > While the encoding appears to be a fundamental thing it is actually = just a distraction from discussing the semantics of the fields and the = security stuff. > =20 > Regarding your preference for CBOR I will ask you the same question as = I did to Suhas: do you have actually any reasons? > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io = ]=20 > Sent: 24 October 2017 11:09 > To: Hannes Tschofenig > Cc: suit@ietf.org ; Suhas Nandakumar > Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > Oh, I see, sounds good ! > =20 > For information - during the last Yang of Things meeting (which very = unfortunately was in the same time slot as FUD), we discussed the use of = YANG model for this description. (the manifest file then can be = expressed in CBOR, XML, or JSON.. (I=E2=80=99ll be tempted to default to = CBOR). > =20 > Do you think this could be something of interest for the BoF and for = the follow-up of Suit ? > =20 > Alexander > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 10:28, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > =C3=98 Thanks for the quick reply! Ok, I think I understand a little = bit better. > =20 > =C3=98 So, it=E2=80=99s about the File Format that contains the = firmware? (so that we have nice things, such as signing, verification, = delta-updates, and so forth ?) > =20 > Yes, it is pretty easy to understand. Just try to implement a firmware = update mechanism and you will notice that the security part is the = complex part. That=E2=80=99s probably not super surprising since we made = this observation already numerous times already with other work in the = IETF. > =20 > If you want to know the details of what we have implemented, just take = a look at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moran-fud-manifest-00 = . As mentioned = earlier, we are polishing our code right now and will release it as open = source (Apache 2 license). > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > Alexander > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:56, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > Hi Alexander, > =20 > I believe the work has to start somewhere. > =20 > What do we have today? > =20 > If you are using a general purpose OS, like Linux, then there are lots = of software/firmware update mechanisms available. I know that there are = still problems with using them on devices like home routers but those = problems are often related to non-technical aspects, such as = discontinued support or pushing updates through the long value chain. = (This problem has even been recognized with smart phones.) > =20 > Furthermore, there are also various =E2=80=9Ctransports=E2=80=9D for = getting a firmware image from A-to-B. > =20 > Hence, I had suggested to focus on the gaps that exist today, namely a = standardized firmware format for use with low end IoT devices. > Before we started our implementation work more than 2 years ago there = was not much available in terms of standardized formats. Hence, we used = RFC 4108 as a starting point.=20 > =20 > If we manage to complete this part of the work we will then be able to = use it with a number of transports. Cisco may prefer a HTTPS based = communication with the firmware update server pre-configured. We = continue use our LwM2M approach with CoAP. Maybe someone else will = switch to QUIC in the future or (as some of the low power WAN guys do) = just shuffle it over their radio without using IP. > =20 > Does this make sense? > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > =20 > From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io = ]=20 > Sent: 24 October 2017 09:45 > To: Hannes Tschofenig > Cc: Suhas Nandakumar; suit@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > Dear Hannes, > =20 > Thanks for clarifying some of the points and for getting the work = started! > =20 > Just for my understanding, if I over-simplify, the goal si to define a = manifest format (will all the behavior that is related to it) necessary = to perform secure firmware update for IoT, is this correct? > =20 > (I imagine the way bindings are defined to the actual L2/L3 protocols = that perform the update would be defined in the manifest file) > =20 > Best, > Alexander > =20 > =20 > =20 > Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig = > a =C3=A9cri= t : > =20 > Hi Suhas, > =20 > The beauty of the charter text is that it already allows any transport = mechanism to be used. > =20 > While home routers use HTTP and TFTP lower end IoT devices use CoAP or = distribute the firmware images directly over the link layer protocol. = See, for example, a recent write-up from my co-worker where he is using = the firmware manifest we described and implemented over LoRa with = differential updates: = https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-updates/ = > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Suhas Nandakumar > Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32 > To: suit@ietf.org > Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport Protocol > =20 > =20 > On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast majority of firmware = updates we see the industry using run over tftp and http with perhaps = coap in the future. We think the charter need to explicitly allow for a = design that allows any one of those three to be use by the IoT device = and is to be clear how they are each used.=20 > =20 > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank = you._______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = --Apple-Mail=_23399AC5-3355-46AE-906F-D76E5E359D6C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Hannes,


Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 12:59, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :

Hi Alexander,
 
Great! So I think we can converge on the YANG part = and if necessary we can work on it together (there will probably be a = YoT side meeting during IETF 100, so we can actually try to prepare this = ahead of the BoF?)
 
Sounds good.
 
On the encoding: we=E2=80=99re using CBOR = in the application layer, so there are already CBOR encoders in = place. 
I am not sure if we can actually live = without ASN.1 (e.g. if we don=E2=80=99t need X.501 certificates and all = the rest)..
 
You would need COSE in = addition since CBOR itself just defines the encoding.
 
Currently our = description explains what we had implemented and the solution is based = on asymmetric crypto and the use of X.509 certificates. While it is = possible to use raw public keys our experience with the industrial = sector has been that they are somewhat conservative and want to re-use = their existing infrastructure. When you use X.509 certs then you will = also have an ASN.1 parser. Even if you use COSE you are most likely = going to have an ASN.1 parser since the requirements for X.509 certs = will not magically go away when you switch to a different encoding.
 
As a consequence, yo = you will have to implement COSE, CBOR, and the ASN.1 parser. = Furthermore, the functionality of a firmware update mechanism makes it = quite security sensitive and hence you will put the code into the = bootloader (Brendan provided more details in earlier email exchanges on = the FUD list). ASN.1 parsers are widely available (since they are part = of every security stack these days) and their quality is quite = high. 
 
We raised the question = about the use of symmetric key cryptography since this is something we = had mixed feelings about but nobody responded. On one hand it is a more = efficient mechanism but on the other hand it provides weaker security = properties.
 
But this actually brings up an = interesting question:
- What are the = requirements for the manifest file 
(because, if you but ASN.1 or CBOR there, then it becomes a = MUST for the end-device to support it)
 
Could you explain your = question a bit more?

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Actually it = is what I meant by saying about the =E2=80=98MUST=E2=80=99 = statement.

The question is, will a = device which supports SUIT be required to implement X.501 certificates? = (I am not against - I like them quite a lot).
Another way to = say it - what is the scope of SUIT? Is it X.509-only based firmware = update system for IoT? (including the future architecture that will be = defined and so forth)?

Are we going = to start with X.509 and then add other as we continue?

Is the focus primarily on the Manifest file (and = thus, the importance to chose one path), or is it on the process (and = thus potentially allow for several mechanisms)?

I don=E2=80=99t think we should make a complex = solution - and I would encourage a simple one that works. I think it = would benefit if we try to narrow down before / during the BoF on these = points.

++
Alexander


 
Ciao
Hannes
 
 
 
++
Alexander
 
 
 
Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 = 12:39, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :
 
Hi = Alexander,
 
we have actually thought about exactly = doing the same as well (in the anticipation that the usual encoding = discussion comes up). Unfortunately, our Yang language expertise is a = bit limited. (Note that our interest was really only in Yang as a = language for describing the format rather than in anything = else.)
 
While the encoding appears to be a = fundamental thing it is actually just a distraction from discussing the = semantics of the fields and the security stuff.
 
Regarding your = preference for CBOR I will ask you the same question as I did to Suhas: = do you have actually any reasons?
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io] 
Sent: 24 = October 2017 11:09
To: Hannes Tschofenig
Cc: suit@ietf.org; Suhas Nandakumar
Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware = Transport Protocol
 
Oh, I see, sounds good !
 
For information - during the last Yang of = Things meeting (which very unfortunately was in the same time slot as = FUD), we discussed the use of YANG model for this description. (the = manifest file then can be expressed in CBOR, XML, or JSON.. (I=E2=80=99ll = be tempted to default to CBOR).
 
Do you think this could be something of = interest for the BoF and for the follow-up of Suit ?
 
Alexander
 
 
 
 
 
Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 10:28, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :
 
=C3=98  Thanks for the quick = reply! Ok, I think I understand a little bit better.
 
=C3=98  So, it=E2=80=99s = about the File Format that contains the firmware? (so that we have nice = things, such as signing, verification, delta-updates, and so forth = ?)
 
Yes, it is pretty easy to understand. Just try to implement a = firmware update mechanism and you will notice that the security part is = the complex part. That=E2=80=99s probably not super surprising since we = made this observation already numerous times already with other work in = the IETF.
 
If = you want to know the details of what we have implemented, just take a = look at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moran-fud-manifest-00<= /a>. As mentioned earlier, we are polishing our code right now and will = release it as open source (Apache 2 license).
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
Alexander
Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 09:56, Hannes = Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :
 
Hi Alexander,
 
I believe the work has to start = somewhere.
 
What do we have today?
 
If you are using a general purpose OS, = like Linux, then there are lots of software/firmware update mechanisms = available. I know that there are still problems with using them on = devices like home routers but those problems are often related to = non-technical aspects, such as discontinued support or pushing updates = through the long value chain. (This problem has even been recognized = with smart phones.)
 
Furthermore, there are also various = =E2=80=9Ctransports=E2=80=9D for getting a firmware image from = A-to-B.
 
Hence, I had suggested to focus on the = gaps that exist today, namely a standardized firmware format for use = with low end IoT devices.
Before we started our implementation work = more than 2 years ago there was not much available in terms of = standardized formats. Hence, we used RFC 4108 as a starting point. 
 
If we manage to complete this part of the = work we will then be able to use it with a number of transports. Cisco = may prefer a HTTPS based communication with the firmware update server = pre-configured. We continue use our LwM2M approach with CoAP. Maybe = someone else will switch to QUIC in the future or (as some of the low = power WAN guys do) just shuffle it over their radio without using = IP.
 
Does this make sense?
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
 
From: Alexander Pelov [mailto:alexander@ackl.io] 
Sent: 24 = October 2017 09:45
To: Hannes Tschofenig
Cc: Suhas Nandakumar; suit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware = Transport Protocol
 
Dear Hannes,
 
Thanks for clarifying some of the points = and for getting the work started!
 
Just for my understanding, if I = over-simplify, the goal si to define a manifest format (will all the = behavior that is related to it) necessary to perform secure firmware = update for IoT, is this correct?
 
(I imagine the way bindings are defined = to the actual L2/L3 protocols that perform the update would be defined = in the manifest file)
 
Best,
Alexander
 
 
 
Le 24 oct. 2017 =C3=A0 = 09:20, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> a =C3=A9crit :
 
Hi Suhas,
 
The beauty of the = charter text is that it already allows any transport mechanism to be = used.
 
While home routers use = HTTP and TFTP lower end IoT devices use CoAP or distribute the firmware = images directly over the link layer protocol. See, for example, a recent = write-up from my co-worker where he is using the firmware manifest we = described and implemented over LoRa with differential updates: https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/towards-fota-lora-crypto-delta-u= pdates/
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Suhas = Nandakumar
Sent: 24 October 2017 07:32
To: suit@ietf.org
Subject: [Suit] Firmware Transport = Protocol
 
 
On the protocol to transport firmware, the vast = majority of firmware updates we see  the industry using run over = tftp and http with perhaps coap in the future. We think the charter need = to explicitly allow for a design that allows any one of those three to = be use by the IoT device and is to be clear how they are each = used. 
 
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and = any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are = not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do = not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, = or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _____________________________= __________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _____________________________= __________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents = of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be = privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the = sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, = use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. = Thank you._______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
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X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150887080309.25088.2910414830668850806.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:46:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-suit-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:46:43 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-suit-00-01: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I think s/has lead to/has led to/. English is an imperfect written language. From nobody Tue Oct 24 14:25:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE51C13A292 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:25:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HZn_SPMS5n_o for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x231.google.com (mail-ua0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFE1D138467 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x231.google.com with SMTP id z4so16337412uaz.5 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:25:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RaqWP31YsLruYMiVUZY95THUTnfrhd3OxCpMNrDWfc0=; b=mp0FnhIezh6rpK3w8IkqFoW4y0/U7BcpI/+Mx5j2UyIP7BY+8KDL8h/YUGTkSxR+iE /C9J+uwOa5Qz6a+21eWhB2rStMS3ML5adseFHlks2LR+Unr/v89bnAyyMMWCQ0ohUerA vEeZxE+2nElZ7pG64mBo8rRWT047cU+aXYuaCGpsEk1W0i5SRXB6WByiq8S/+Tx1UoQU 6ZoGgi7jmqYZ/RtBg7m74Tm90GNOKr1p+wI9cKQcW016LGj6fXIg9S8Wmm5CZNHnwECW moRdv08aADpL8GzMabhIhRKIHOfyEcOZULWT/641kOs8CqLU6uEGH16Nlc4PFsXPAJJP wVAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RaqWP31YsLruYMiVUZY95THUTnfrhd3OxCpMNrDWfc0=; b=eA1rHY6li7Or66xGkYaFhTPVCcp6ZMhE8rlj5DretPcl698DiytiV8BUfF7BYxcwrG 8s8TALG+vB6h5Evpguh3zRy1Y2VKXfLO4acQBm/oaMgKBSu7AZFqDOG8DvFJaYIFD4w0 gkAClg3Q0fr8CFIyW4FLOqNWuMsHiK9S0KWJUCq0AHg1wnQTiY+8iq9sXGFjnp3o5Juw wEd7zd6Zp7I9BDGQxHQ6AbSnlfV/okJMOlLSSclFzUhmc5i4b+s5QzkCn8kyxnl/h+oD oANAAqvxTCnnEnWqOGMBZdh8TIwbaPBg5MQRS8jLIvrBsGe/w+e6tO3B8gXxWQxYTAMI KuEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWalFxji4Di+KrFhaIUYIz/SByIJZUYrGqNUzEhtDmsCOL/+RaS 93Ax1gFrfq2UUJmOP5CSy8I1Fsw2JRhSrPazTII= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+RHt4d/I94iLFWGjkqTtNwAJjE7rfTPKw5iY2k74kE/tglnlkW3XY4L6E6YuXw2QqlrGwAoW1aUOYfYkPboyPk= X-Received: by 10.176.22.10 with SMTP id k10mr44414uae.6.1508880350989; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:25:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:25:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:25:50 -0700 Message-ID: To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: "suit@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145761a54528c055c519523" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Firmware Server Discovery X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:25:54 -0000 --001a1145761a54528c055c519523 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Hannes I do see a need for using other transport protocols to download the firmware, however we want this solution to work on the Internet. As long as we can have something to that effect, we are happy to live with other protocols too, given various deployment options. Thanks Suhas On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Hannes Tschofenig < Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote: > Hi Suhas, > > > > The details of how to find the server for downloading a firmware image > depend on the deployment and the protocols being used. > > For example, we use LwM2M for the transport and for discovery. > > > > The charter is specifically written to give flexibility. For example, > someone deploying BLE devices that are connected using a smart phone app > can use their infrastructure to push firmware images to devices. > > > > Keeping the work focused will also help to ensure that we get somewhere. > > > > Ciao > > Hannes > > > > > > *From:* Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Suhas > Nandakumar > *Sent:* 24 October 2017 02:37 > *To:* suit@ietf.org > *Subject:* [Suit] Firmware Server Discovery > > > > Hello All, > > > > Finding out where to download firmware and that there is firmware > available is a key part of download the firmware and impacts the design of > the manifest. > > > > We think selecting a simple approach to this needs to be included in scope > of the charter > > > > Thanks > > Suhas > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. Thank you. > --001a1145761a54528c055c519523 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Hannes

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I do see a need= for using other transport protocols to download the firmware, however we w= ant this solution to work on the Internet. As long as we can have something= to that effect, we are happy to live with other protocols too, given vario= us deployment options.

Thanks
Suhas

On Tue, Oc= t 24, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.c= om> wrote:

Hi Suhas,

=C2=A0

The details of how to fin= d the server for downloading a firmware image depend on the deployment and = the protocols being used.

For example, we use LwM2M= for the transport and for discovery.

=C2=A0

The charter is specifical= ly written to give flexibility. For example, someone deploying BLE devices = that are connected using a smart phone app can use their infrastructure to push firmware images to devices.

=C2=A0

Keeping the work focused = will also help to ensure that we get somewhere.

=C2=A0

Ciao=

Hannes

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Suit [mailto:suit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Suhas Nandakumar
Sent: 24 October 2017 02:37
To: suit@ietf.org=
Subject: [Suit] Firmware Server Discovery

=C2=A0

Hello All,

=C2=A0

Finding out where to download firmware an= d that there is firmware available is a key part of download the firmware a= nd impacts the design of the manifest.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

We think selecting a simple approach to t= his needs to be included in scope of the charter

=C2=A0

Thanks

Suhas

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

--001a1145761a54528c055c519523-- From nobody Tue Oct 24 16:15:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D6213F8EF for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:15:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ynUrk0x4th0u for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x229.google.com (mail-oi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9564D13F8E8 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x229.google.com with SMTP id f66so40131763oib.2 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:15:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nXEBs0eAr7jY5LskbeTxQ3jwonqVqNxExpXIvEblyDM=; b=tHqmbd4d3qd5qL/vohGPGsI4byA+j02Kc3AFNJ8w4vAQCDlEURK2Jo1G/hvZ2ovbwd c2ZtpZgkjAfP2ksDPYWY+/XliYPVZb7rZo+VgnlnlnYRLxoscuTZPSVW12m3bobOEmOG BUW6p75Z7GU3Tg2/8QSrR6/HYrypAXPo3+KfHepBuBvseh3oiJIs7d0BPyhV+tvrX2p2 RlvmT9hbiv8Hna67o3AcufzOZzJV5jkdLojeArcmPh99Kh2IDqDWjLzCOYfOvBHRugZZ 2dmdoyUIflzzuEuisKsbRP4KMCCVMzb5yJ/CMxRpv1C9vqcw7MOy0ZyoGcx0UDzhYNBL OvbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nXEBs0eAr7jY5LskbeTxQ3jwonqVqNxExpXIvEblyDM=; b=g88hLfOVGt66ZxaqvhdBpFk6tr92hIdzYUnEZ0GOtzr+tCuAdPRv3YKOWXEM1SndOU +1jUJGnuJtzQwI9dwvPWZNQPHNRRqbuifFhWZZS06yapvminv5VAA1o2jyp+gxUJbNgP vIfu7z/Uvow0UxIpLNBNeNTIqNr/w9bDdTsihIWv1hK5qSmA4gqRl0UxojzaXO9HL5We fpZw6Ihee11Rh10oC1rzM9kBZRZg/lLgnr01FL8xdnvUC57wRYnVT4iOkBIPy4h2aQFL VHhTraqYrDQNg1iRPQbWzqKY3WgO9Lhftyf/y5JMB/DitKf3cuXr/CBYI5DgJPW51nHC Errg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXK0FEagd8WIS34MDVLjK5uxx72VoTc6xEIo55WzFiM62iGdg+s K6vT3Yv85qudcQ7ME1EYZVnOd0YdZ/kKVRRsaIj8uA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Sp9Xo2wvZsFkEsio0uQfY3U20oieQm0vdVfl4q8L6USsj2iaI3SSqcku0SfCXogXHrcSnQImzQzidU86LO+VI= X-Received: by 10.202.75.216 with SMTP id y207mr153884oia.282.1508886937825; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:15:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.72.178 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:15:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0124B002-051C-4761-B1E9-37DECBE4B8F7@iii.ca> References: <0124B002-051C-4761-B1E9-37DECBE4B8F7@iii.ca> From: Martin Thomson Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 10:15:37 +1100 Message-ID: To: Cullen Jennings Cc: Hannes Tschofenig , "suit@ietf.org" , Suhas Nandakumar Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Suit - Charter Considerations and Thoughts X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:15:48 -0000 On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cullen Jennings wrote: >> On Oct 24, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> >> Regarding the charter comments I believe you misunderstand this effort a bit. The proposed work is actually not about the download of the firmware but instead focuses about the meta-data and security wrapper around the firmware/software. > > The whole point of having a BOF is to try and figure out what the scope of the work should be. If there are people interested in the problem of firmware acquisition as opposed to the narrower scope of the proposed effort which concentrates on how to determine if a blob of bits should be applied once acquired, that might be worth a second working group. On the other hand, if what Suhas suggests is correct and the description of the blob necessarily depends on the means by which it is acquired, then we should discuss that. Hannes seems to believe that this isn't a necessary dependency, and I would have to say that I can't see any evidence to support the claim that the two are co-dependent. We could also decide that the scope of the proposed work should be expanded to include other things without having that discussion. Personally, I like the fact that this is a narrowly focused effort. I can see plenty of opportunity for disagreement, but also a fairly rapid (and successful) conclusion. From nobody Tue Oct 24 16:36:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E62613A41F for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id btbU5rUaGwpP for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x22c.google.com (mail-ua0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F04B139605 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 47so16562457uas.8 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CK8HfM8PUWDOeveorIfyQezhkJIcAHipDclhFGbAs8g=; b=Tfs6gAM11VrV3rooai0cM6fCUZ/rXIYJtK7SEIjn/UCOYNLpqujtkvUGhCrZIrkhzq 28N1nGaTghVHBAV93Cy9kHgEe/B0HSiJci8U1bxZm74w8NfIzJovCtg9Ey58WFBc+AM9 plwNbh8byODk0Ot00JHCedM8V9To86//c4Ra2GQoDsXSSislJpc5YQ+emHRxTZ6K2XHu WiQAOrbRKQwrhmvXezFdOAqcCGm2HE5sZVPvIrGt57/3mhQmDlZKvfw5ouRy3FVKYZZS FWIovUeKEDe9AJ5MetO6Li/UUTzGLjt1tygWt2CmGQvgQEU+3IK5CRk0SCi+m7c2Tuuz FJzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CK8HfM8PUWDOeveorIfyQezhkJIcAHipDclhFGbAs8g=; b=J3twCComZ123c21nEGPYNTvHpgOd4W4aaEi7ht7k7tnF0IrTEb/3WOsBuvTFn8+LaY ze0PtTVBZDdxXaCG4hvBFczeUNJUor8jTsTImD3ZVpWOH1Pv4Eynl/DAMTgDDW5y4P1g nahTFAaDBBBDMgSQMDemC3tixXw7mMUkkXQJg77tL5Oq+2335ciem5Af7fW4a4SBnhA3 WZ+LdloqgxsM6xLLRbQ8z3w5X/VgEOrUtsBbnSz5dnBCSYpfxwPTdNxnaLH0c0BzlNo7 ND4/j8oERIiaIw6T87UmxuWHXi65uhIKcNlc/xPiLLWc4QdNypSpfwThMumoVH4vTHHk cpHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXM5f4a9uYX3m5+6vnpLWBQ8gSgw+8vpWOjuVR4Ft7ypy/zUOmh 9NxO/Q15oqSEkwfcxZd1UDMRmNbUr1Pj2MC6eu2GTA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+QF4NTPCMimzV6WebZDDUVnVRTFc1jTXagYq29xBEzWvQmMAkA8ZNOPf7rBHRv3i+opNtNc0JchmLRhFcr4/RQ= X-Received: by 10.176.66.129 with SMTP id j1mr329260uaj.34.1508888202089; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b8bba4a98e5055c536921" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Charter Text Confusion X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:36:45 -0000 --001a114b8bba4a98e5055c536921 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" An interesting thing came up on meeting with Hannes today. We think one of the reasons for some confusions has been discrepancy between the charter on the datatracker and the one Hannes shared to the list. Just to point one of the issues, the charter at the datatracker says This group will use draft-moran-fud-architecture as a starting point for discussion of the "Architecture" document. This group will use draft-moran-fud-manifest as a starting point for discussion of the "Manifest Format" specification. While the charter sent by Hannes to the mailing list @ https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/fud/current/msg00078.html, doesn't say the above. There are other minor differences between these 2 versions. Shouldn't we be using one posted by Hannes as the reference ? or should we be referring the datatracker version ? Cheers Suhas --001a114b8bba4a98e5055c536921 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


An interesting thing came up on me= eting with Hannes today.=C2=A0
We think one of the reasons for so= me confusions has been discrepancy between the charter on the datatracker a= nd the one Hannes shared to the list.

Just to poin= t one of the issues, the charter at the datatracker says


This group will use d= raft-moran-fud-architecture as a starting point for
discussion of the "Architecture" document.

This group wil= l use draft-moran-fud-manifest as a starting point for
discussion of the "Manifest Format" specification.=

While the charter= sent by Hannes to the mailing list @=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mail-archi= ve/web/fud/current/msg00078.html, doesn't say the above.
=

There are othe= r minor differences between these 2 versions.

Shouldn't we be using one posted by Hann= es as the reference ? or should we be referring the datatracker version ?


Cheers

Suhas

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d="scan'208";a="301491381" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 25 Oct 2017 00:40:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-005.cisco.com (xch-rtp-005.cisco.com [64.101.220.145]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9P0eRQm003217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 25 Oct 2017 00:40:28 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) by XCH-RTP-005.cisco.com (64.101.220.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:40:26 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:40:26 -0400 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: "suit@ietf.org" CC: Hannes Tschofenig Thread-Topic: [Suit] Charter & Regulation Thread-Index: AQHTTJia+U/kFT5IY0KBkYVIh05d3qLz/Y6A Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 00:40:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <12B281EF-DBD9-420F-90E7-86118D16901A@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.19.228.210] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1AF1900D1B87534395C9C55DA88A85B6@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Charter & Regulation X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 00:40:43 -0000 DQpUaGlzIG1heSBiZSB0aGF0IEkgYW0gcmVhZGluZyB0aGUgd3JvbmcgY2hhcnRlciwgIGJ1dCB0 aGUgb25lIEkgYW0gcmVhZGluZyBkaXN0aW5jdGx5IHRhbGtzIGFib3V0IGEgImxhY2sgb2YgcmVn dWxhdGlvbiIuICBJIGRvbid0IHJlY2FsbCB0aGUgSUFCIHdvcmtzaG9wIHJlcG9ydCBkaWQgbWVu dGlvbiBsYWNrIG9mIHJlZ3VsYXRpb24gYnV0IHBlcmhhcHMgSSBtaXNzZWQgaXQuIEVpdGhlciB3 YXksIEkgZG8gbm90IHRoaW5rIHRoZXJlIGlzIG5lZWQgbW9yZSByZWd1bGF0aW9uIGluIHRoaXMg c3BhY2UgYW5kIHdvdWxkIHJhdGhlciBub3Qgc2VlIHRoYXQgaW4gdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIuIEkgdGhp bmsgSXQgY2FuIGp1c3QgYmUgcmVtb3ZlZC4gDQoNCg0KPiBPbiBPY3QgMjQsIDIwMTcsIGF0IDE6 MjAgQU0sIEhhbm5lcyBUc2Nob2ZlbmlnIDxIYW5uZXMuVHNjaG9mZW5pZ0Bhcm0uY29tPiB3cm90 ZToNCj4gDQo+IEhpIEN1bGxlbiwNCj4gDQo+IEkgYW0gY29udmluY2VkIHRoYXQgSUVURiBwZW9w bGUga25vdyBob3cgdG8gcmVhZCBhIHdvcmtzaG9wIHJlcG9ydCBhbmQgYWxzbyB1bmRlcnN0YW5k IHRoYXQgYSB3b3Jrc2hvcCByZXBvcnQgZG9lcyBub3QgcmVwcmVzZW50IHRoZSB2aWV3cyBvZiB0 aGUgSUVURiwgb3IgdGhlIElBQi4NCj4gDQo+IE5vdGUgdGhhdCBldmVuIHRoZSBpbnRybyBvZiB0 aGUgd29ya3Nob3AgcmVwb3J0IHNheXM6DQo+IA0KPiAiDQo+ICAgVGhlIHZpZXdzIGFuZCBwb3Np dGlvbnMgaW4gdGhpcyByZXBvcnQgYXJlIHRob3NlIG9mIHRoZSB3b3Jrc2hvcA0KPiAgIHBhcnRp Y2lwYW50cyBhbmQgZG8gbm90IG5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5IHJlZmxlY3QgdGhvc2Ugb2YgdGhlaXIgZW1w bG95ZXJzLw0KPiAgIHNwb25zb3JzLCB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyBvZiB0aGlzIG1lbW8gbm9yIHRoZSBJ bnRlcm5ldCBBcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUNCj4gICBCb2FyZCAoSUFCKSwgdW5kZXIgd2hvc2UgYXVzcGlj ZXMgdGhlIHdvcmtzaG9wIHdhcyBoZWxkLg0KPiAiDQo+IA0KPiBJdCBpcyBkaWZmaWN1bHQgdG8g bWlzdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGF0IHRleHQuDQo+IA0KPiBDaWFvDQo+IEhhbm5lcw0KPiANCj4gLS0t LS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogU3VpdCBbbWFpbHRvOnN1aXQtYm91bmNl c0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEN1bGxlbiBKZW5uaW5ncyAoZmx1ZmZ5KQ0KPiBTZW50 OiAyNCBPY3RvYmVyIDIwMTcgMDc6MTgNCj4gVG86IHN1aXRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDog W1N1aXRdIENoYXJ0ZXIgJiBSZWd1bGF0aW9uDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gVGhlIHByb3Bvc2VkIGNoYXJ0 ZXIgc2F5cyDigJxUaGlzIHdvcmtzaG9wIGFsc28gbWFkZSBjbGVhciB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGlzIGEg bGFjayBvZiByZWd1bGF0b3J5IHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cywgd2hpY2ggY29udHJpYnV0ZXMgdG8gY2hh bGxlbmdlcyBhc3NvY2lhdGVkIHdpdGggbWlzYWxpZ25lZCBpbmNlbnRpdmVzLiDigJwgIEkgdGhp bmsgbWFueSBwZW9wbGUgd291bGQgcmVhZCB0aGF0IGFzIElFVEYgY29uc2Vuc3VzIHRoYXQgd2Ug bmVlZCByZWd1bGF0aW9uIGluIHRoaXMgc3BhY2UuIEkgc2VyaW91c2x5IGRvdWJ0IHRoYXQgdGhl cmUgaXMgSUVURiBjb25zZW5zdXMgdGhhdCB3ZSBuZWVkIHJlZ3VsYXRpb24gYXJvdW5kIGZpcm13 YXJlIGRvd25sb2FkLiBJIGZlZWwgdGhhdCByZWd1bGF0aW9uIHdvdWxkIGJlIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUg d29yc3Qgd2F5cyB0byBhcHByb2FjaCB0aGlzIHByb2JsZW0uIFRoZXJlIGlzIGEgbG90IG9mIGZs dWZmIGluIHRoaXMgY2hhcnRlciB0aGF0IHdvdWxkIGp1c3QgYmUgYmV0dGVyIG9mZiByZW1vdmVk Lg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fDQo+IFN1aXQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IFN1aXRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zdWl0DQo+IElNUE9SVEFOVCBOT1RJQ0U6IFRoZSBj b250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIGFuZCBhbnkgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgYXJlIGNvbmZpZGVudGlh bCBhbmQgbWF5IGFsc28gYmUgcHJpdmlsZWdlZC4gSWYgeW91IGFyZSBub3QgdGhlIGludGVuZGVk IHJlY2lwaWVudCwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBkbyBu b3QgZGlzY2xvc2UgdGhlIGNvbnRlbnRzIHRvIGFueSBvdGhlciBwZXJzb24sIHVzZSBpdCBmb3Ig YW55IHB1cnBvc2UsIG9yIHN0b3JlIG9yIGNvcHkgdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGluIGFueSBtZWRp dW0uIFRoYW5rIHlvdS4NCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCj4gU3VpdCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gU3VpdEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3N1aXQNCg0K From nobody Wed Oct 25 17:43:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E4B13A214; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:43:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper To: "The IESG" Cc: suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150897859274.24140.16395998832601120242.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:43:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-suit-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 00:43:13 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm balloting No Objection but I think it would be useful to spend some more time refining the charter before sending it out for external review. In addition to the question raised by Erik that has already been discussed, I wonder about constraining this to ASN.1. I've seen arguments on the list for why ASN.1 makes sense, but not why the WG should be prevented from working on other formats. I also wonder about this text being overly limiting, given that the milestones additionally include specifying an architecture: "The purpose of this group is to produce a second version of RFC 4108 that reflects the current best practices." From nobody Wed Oct 25 18:33:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B9313A5CF; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:33:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XC9XKoclZ6_X; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22c.google.com (mail-pg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E373138FA0; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id j3so1422051pga.1; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:33:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XJ2puJido8dsXbffzDr6Ebg7QTmsnApiqrWw2VCEYTQ=; b=spo/5BsXN9voBgYCVga2WQAXig881tf5yIfUL1wnYxLE4tCp+bxDIpO3dxfFoYPQgp reFpIcnfiIS9JajbRJoPq0Tz/hxNSCBKIgAl7EhnIJc5q4JPPRIud+Ys2hlQRqBwCkIP vl5XSSiT1ILfi1rC/OTPth0/YBrZ97RHxhNL6efQlv4U7cG0YuqaJz1T6vI2ImVBPKgu 1/zlb1X2pXsFtQ+4PgI4QNETtPTR22+0gOpBE1woNQFVaeZziVT1IyLml59tV2cmJEgf owXVN+6BGk7p8DxyNmSNbCOuhKdVLQMFs+2qwkqhFEtQvR0q6tXkZXxjHlgZmnyU3RKj rTKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XJ2puJido8dsXbffzDr6Ebg7QTmsnApiqrWw2VCEYTQ=; b=k67W8sx6bm2L+ZVR3ku7d7bjOFPJVW/lIQA6nhY/POb35vl6Gh5L24hWC2vVtfGUns bVMFVgNfgQ6DeLOhKThqzE8/ua//7xubqiI6tRh67n9eYct4Hqh7VkHNospYN3nAhZ3u ZuNxCNV1Tz7BCWhQ2hzyIK6rGv5QNwdNk83+LyqOXAM+1gtI2M8bk1rWvaLaIZnz+jrp yadfFmLaOobnCbwcACS10AepMxlRBzMqQiMFlfrsjFuNdnlBMNPIhLM6fhIeZbsSGQDN yjIaNALkbVuMOdIy2IRk88+cdNxFzzHvoJXMorn9X4Z3KoWkWDkS2TfB5Z6ubuKlB4pZ 9G/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUxfyi3sdURZGQw5NJkNcm7AgPBDo+gsjMLYZ6R3bqSI1+9WAUR qHeusd2/nn21fDMN34t6ScchSYoepXAIM0hqXdU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Qs1zdx7n9jifexJuKfqqAT8tC9WXeD7ZmVJEQba2sCwOrzCwm2/3yQhPbw/JdpZkNa5q14AyZHUvbx1pENqpA= X-Received: by 10.98.37.68 with SMTP id l65mr3806902pfl.253.1508981585673; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:33:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.186.194 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:32:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <150897859274.24140.16395998832601120242.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150897859274.24140.16395998832601120242.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 21:32:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: Alissa Cooper Cc: The IESG , suit-chairs@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-suit-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 01:33:07 -0000 Thanks for your comments, Alissa. Inline. On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote: > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-suit-00-01: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-suit/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I'm balloting No Objection but I think it would be useful to spend some more > time refining the charter before sending it out for external review. > > In addition to the question raised by Erik that has already been discussed, I > wonder about constraining this to ASN.1. I've seen arguments on the list for > why ASN.1 makes sense, but not why the WG should be prevented from working on > other formats. Right, I'd like to hear more as well to ensure we start out with an agreed way forward (or at least a starting point). If other formats are needed, the WG might decide to prioritize them. > > I also wonder about this text being overly limiting, given that the milestones > additionally include specifying an architecture: "The purpose of this group is > to produce a second version of RFC 4108 that reflects the current best > practices." > Yes, this came up on list as well. This sentence has been removed in the version I just posted. It still leaves in a bullet that lists 4108 as a work item, but not as "the purpose". I'm not sure of the 4108 bullet will be removed or not and just added as a milestone. Thanks. > -- Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Thu Oct 26 20:01:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82C613F628 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:01:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UuVFvmqeGieD for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22d.google.com (mail-yw0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 411A513A5AF for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id y75so4664606ywg.0 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:01:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fI6R55cTH1sreSoI7xbAOpoTDepO+revINlsMMRt8DQ=; b=B+R7+J4SEksZyP0OxL69vJ+LtTXsvs1tgzvZIINtL60WDeKqtkMeNvV+T9EbO9fhgx o7jHlIFEoAXzS3FJ1TxIPdoLTy4L3WqCyBnY0iXZhUB2jWv+N72kmWHp62+UqT2cQJbC 5XvHckcpPWagOlgQRdxmN0AzGv2gN95vRjMvOJ4wjeWJnYobGjMwuyXP6UNHGg02JgRD jqyRXcMX66GJbA3/5QFLEmLhgIFZk/gFqnNiaDXQsO8NOQqGQF6+4taobrlCCgzFAOcu Pjjz3UTRDOKK66Wj/JQ0jn7ZwotZJj2G33sy4L3FD+fUo2ltI6VeKfC9uGQWNCTQTkzR f4cw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fI6R55cTH1sreSoI7xbAOpoTDepO+revINlsMMRt8DQ=; b=g7pZxD0AvFy1jQxc3M7Z/ZgPjh2w8RlbbestSZp/OnzKGmiXCLYutK+psmd7uuXPpP wwLxMj3dqIR5QPupazM+o9QITrMqRrbUs5P7FQ98IssaRjV7Ga+Ugasm9xMtp7WLqMDx BN6P6ZeyqbCrX8dZyGGEkaghAJc9dEgs+33JVE6Qbgh+/9Qqfog5BxnH4LtvGRT7s/Hh e/cKm2Ouq1JKzPtjI8kRxep/v/su+ANhiyNyIIPAMCVS32jmXDVBl6BD4n3c8lvwa1aC b67iW/kkIeillJjfKpc4jHTcDM+eW7UjRdkeuVcWlmABUBTfGNKSzDbz3hGt9oiC+D0j ev3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWxoK2mP2Qz5tkb6LnWYj0gNVp5qTargMVloyR1dq8a9o7oR2Yq e9pG/wIg58e78y+bmZI4bjr+9ZP1fwHE4M7+FY8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Qw1PNZMK9ixvcaChRIgP1Vrfp3BuyjAWarWmDpkgUwhiorTG7nOZ02hPHIXyVgQATBHeg5mysD6r/cW0FU2IE= X-Received: by 10.37.214.136 with SMTP id n130mr4640769ybg.255.1509073274249; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:01:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.87.131 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:01:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3EE7D035-D235-4533-83D6-235A9F366893@cisco.com> References: <3EE7D035-D235-4533-83D6-235A9F366893@cisco.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 22:01:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" Cc: "suit@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c06573c73a7bb055c7e80e5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Broadcast Delivery X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 03:01:17 -0000 --94eb2c06573c73a7bb055c7e80e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Cullen, On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) wrote: > Delivery of firmware over a multicast transport mechanism is very hard an= d > involves significant congestion issue. I don=E2=80=99t think the IETF cur= rently has > a transport protocol that's really suitable for this. I would prefer to s= ee > the WG charted for this to be clearly out of scope for the first > deliverable. The odds are at least 2:1 that I agree with you, but just to make sure we're agreeing on the same thing, are you thinking that - firmware delivery over multicast transport would be out of scope for the first deliverable, or - firmware delivery over multicast transport with a purpose-specific congestion control would be out of scope for the first deliverable, or - development of a general-purpose multicast transport protocol appropriate for firmware delivery would be out of scope ? Curiously yours, Spencer, as an individual (who already balloted Yes on the SUIT charter) --94eb2c06573c73a7bb055c7e80e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Cullen,

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) <fluf= fy@cisco.com> wrote:
Delive= ry of firmware over a multicast transport mechanism is very hard and involv= es significant congestion issue. I don=E2=80=99t think the IETF currently h= as a transport protocol that's really suitable for this. I would prefer= to see the WG charted for this=C2=A0 to be clearly out of scope for the fi= rst deliverable.

The odds are at least 2:1 = that I agree with you, but just to make sure we're agreeing on the same= thing, are you thinking that
  • firmware delivery over mult= icast transport would be out of scope for the first deliverable, or
    • firmware delivery over multicast transport with a purpose-specific congest= ion control would be out of scope for the first deliverable, or
  • dev= elopment of a general-purpose multicast transport protocol appropriate for = firmware delivery would be out of scope
?=C2=A0

=
Curiously yours,

Spencer, as an individ= ual (who already balloted Yes on the SUIT charter)
--94eb2c06573c73a7bb055c7e80e5-- From nobody Thu Oct 26 20:50:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D8E613F638 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:50:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OflRBYxizsFP for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x235.google.com (mail-yw0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 808E3138BD8 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x235.google.com with SMTP id j4so4718937ywb.2 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:50:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Txd+7A5q3e6HcqmIIiUSu1baKs3IqD7YMeNjM6LrMrY=; b=shj98qT7GOG1SWfhQ7JjkmStDW8DN7PSS77U7hUUPvEJv37kaTAMlbK6kgbqbbMiCY vZTynvng2tPnV/eqpjDD2AXX66EEOpm2ALzoL2dyNQJJypKHgU5K45W/EcIaofcavP6u OHEHxK1BypbfL+EKojqfvbPXj584rP5E9OOvQvKc4d2zDZnXuz3xOlrCB+h6XKASEPAI i/kP8/HO+m64S28FWMKFjnaqp9yKu6K5/vGbzlC92G5uZwPE/r2gDmqNjKoOk3CehzwZ 6o/t5b+sIiraOR5xVif3a1mhsQDsFWyAAxw8jXo19qvoQYED96WhOOwUT+b+lWpIIC+2 pMUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Txd+7A5q3e6HcqmIIiUSu1baKs3IqD7YMeNjM6LrMrY=; b=eHSHhJ/q5LOGmwubgzqvbc5h5pMilM2fi+GeBZpsgnwOq+4LwPuPMKgl2Kfifh6sJf eDPLf6dM80PdcSMUMfzCd8vhJ3WUMQtKRv9SwF8Jewt15dDQU1fgdTh1C5fIG/hlApVn idE1RNUA6yrrf2oSEU2TCJHo7sDYvcZkjZbWZGBBWwjxpLTQPWfSBcTlAD6CcATe+I5/ rSNpDD2bvXBMv4ZmzcfDDkKD3TE0mR3+kxMODmGrzbAE6onjez7zLWyKcUVMWD5LUXhU O5pDSeC9utjDpQA3mBz1B4CbIDeRevqcmFyQXiU2cByBwp7zUqleDasgB/fLFB2+t8K8 EWmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXjb5rDJEn8LC3Ex44hVzbBMclqR01pqxjha6w7XAw9VDzyU5kA qc/jmbFQ8DuebQW7NwX2n1TahM2WfJiufPNe+hg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Ro5sxTy5dvmiJ5r/zjffddjSFViGNN+WaB/Mxf3zlpKbi4RBi/RbNm+Eb5kPUNL2BUm9j5XYdsicC9ou7EdsU= X-Received: by 10.37.82.130 with SMTP id g124mr4747914ybb.417.1509076211357; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:50:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.87.131 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:50:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 22:50:10 -0500 Message-ID: To: Suhas Nandakumar Cc: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114231ee845be5055c7f2f5b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Charter Text Confusion X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 03:50:14 -0000 --001a114231ee845be5055c7f2f5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Suhas, On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Suhas Nandakumar wrote: > > > An interesting thing came up on meeting with Hannes today. > We think one of the reasons for some confusions has been discrepancy > between the charter on the datatracker and the one Hannes shared to the > list. > > Just to point one of the issues, the charter at the datatracker says > > > This group will use draft-moran-fud-architecture as a starting point for > discussion of the "Architecture" document. > > This group will use draft-moran-fud-manifest as a starting point for > discussion of the "Manifest Format" specification. > > While the charter sent by Hannes to the mailing list @ > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/fud/current/msg00078.html, doesn't > say the above. > > There are other minor differences between these 2 versions. > > Shouldn't we be using one posted by Hannes as the reference ? or should we > be referring the datatracker version ? > Kathleen would have the definitive answer here, but the IESG is already balloting on the datatracker version ... Spencer --001a114231ee845be5055c7f2f5b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Suhas,

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Suhas Nandakumar &= lt;suhasietf@gmail= .com> wrote:


An interesting thing came up on meeting with Han= nes today.=C2=A0
We think one of the reasons for some confusions = has been discrepancy between the charter on the datatracker and the one Han= nes shared to the list.

Just to point one of the i= ssues, the charter at the datatracker says


This group will use draft-moran-fud= -architecture as a starting point for
di= scussion of the "Architecture" document.

This group will use draft-mo= ran-fud-manifest as a starting point for
discussion of the "Manifest Format" specification.

While the charter sent by Han= nes to the mailing list @=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mail= -archive/web/fud/current/msg00078.html, doesn't say the a= bove.

Shouldn't we be using = one posted by Hannes as the reference ? or should we be referring the datat= racker version ?


Kathleen w= ould have the definitive answer here, but the IESG is already balloting on = the datatracker version ...

Spencer=C2=A0
--001a114231ee845be5055c7f2f5b-- From nobody Thu Oct 26 21:26:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A3AD1391C3 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 21:26:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Ctqpne9RNG1 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 21:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp122.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp122.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0AA11375C9 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 21:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp32.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp32.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B579858A2; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 00:25:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: fluffy@iii.ca Received: by smtp32.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: fluffy-AT-iii.ca) with ESMTPSA id 4F8A656C7; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 00:25:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: fluffy@iii.ca Received: from [10.1.3.55] (S0106004268479ae3.cg.shawcable.net [70.77.44.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Fri, 27 Oct 2017 00:25:55 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Cullen Jennings In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 22:25:54 -0600 Cc: "suit@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8F7E4373-6192-4896-BBF6-3E5585267E11@iii.ca> References: <3EE7D035-D235-4533-83D6-235A9F366893@cisco.com> To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Broadcast Delivery X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 04:26:02 -0000 If we had some other group in the IETF that had put together a multicast = transport protocol that worked well for things like this, I think there = would be interest in using it for delivering firmware updates. But doing a transport like that is not easy and should not be done in = this WG - I think of it as a fairly different skill set than the people = I would hope would come this WG. If such a thing got developed, I can = imagine figuring out how to use that transport for this firmware update = could be added at a later stage to this WG but I would still want to get = a non multicast version done first as that is what is most needed.=20 I am aware of the FLUTE work - that seemed hard to use for firmware = updates so I had not pursued that for Cisco devices. If there are people = doing firmware updates with FLUTE, I would *love* to hear about their = experiences at the BOF. It could easily change my mind.=20 > On Oct 26, 2017, at 9:01 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Cullen, >=20 > On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) = wrote: > Delivery of firmware over a multicast transport mechanism is very hard = and involves significant congestion issue. I don=E2=80=99t think the = IETF currently has a transport protocol that's really suitable for this. = I would prefer to see the WG charted for this to be clearly out of = scope for the first deliverable. >=20 > The odds are at least 2:1 that I agree with you, but just to make sure = we're agreeing on the same thing, are you thinking that > =E2=80=A2 firmware delivery over multicast transport would be = out of scope for the first deliverable, or Probably out of scope for v1 unless a suitable multicast transport = protocol already exists. > =E2=80=A2 firmware delivery over multicast transport with a = purpose-specific congestion control would be out of scope for the first = deliverable, or If this WG would be doing the congestion control, then yes, out of scope = for v1=20 > =E2=80=A2 development of a general-purpose multicast transport = protocol appropriate for firmware delivery would be out of scope Definitely out of scope for this WG to last done.=20 > ?=20 >=20 > Curiously yours, >=20 > Spencer, as an individual (who already balloted Yes on the SUIT = charter) > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit From nobody Thu Oct 26 22:12:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84A861394F1 for ; 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Thu, 26 Oct 2017 22:12:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.87.131 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 22:12:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8F7E4373-6192-4896-BBF6-3E5585267E11@iii.ca> References: <3EE7D035-D235-4533-83D6-235A9F366893@cisco.com> <8F7E4373-6192-4896-BBF6-3E5585267E11@iii.ca> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 00:12:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: Cullen Jennings Cc: "suit@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114c7b40d0468e055c805531" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Broadcast Delivery X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 05:12:31 -0000 --001a114c7b40d0468e055c805531 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Cullen, On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:25 PM, Cullen Jennings wrote: > > If we had some other group in the IETF that had put together a multicast > transport protocol that worked well for things like this, I think there > would be interest in using it for delivering firmware updates. > > But doing a transport like that is not easy and should not be done in thi= s > WG - I think of it as a fairly different skill set than the people I woul= d > hope would come this WG. If such a thing got developed, I can imagine > figuring out how to use that transport for this firmware update could be > added at a later stage to this WG but I would still want to get a non > multicast version done first as that is what is most needed. > > I am aware of the FLUTE work - that seemed hard to use for firmware > updates so I had not pursued that for Cisco devices. If there are people > doing firmware updates with FLUTE, I would *love* to hear about their > experiences at the BOF. It could easily change my mind. > > > > On Oct 26, 2017, at 9:01 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF < > spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, Cullen, > > > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) < > fluffy@cisco.com> wrote: > > Delivery of firmware over a multicast transport mechanism is very hard > and involves significant congestion issue. I don=E2=80=99t think the IETF= currently > has a transport protocol that's really suitable for this. I would prefer = to > see the WG charted for this to be clearly out of scope for the first > deliverable. > > > > The odds are at least 2:1 that I agree with you, but just to make sure > we're agreeing on the same thing, are you thinking that > > =E2=80=A2 firmware delivery over multicast transport would be out= of scope > for the first deliverable, or > > Probably out of scope for v1 unless a suitable multicast transport > protocol already exists. > > > =E2=80=A2 firmware delivery over multicast transport with a > purpose-specific congestion control would be out of scope for the first > deliverable, or > > If this WG would be doing the congestion control, then yes, out of scope > for v1 > > > =E2=80=A2 development of a general-purpose multicast transport pr= otocol > appropriate for firmware delivery would be out of scope > > Definitely out of scope for this WG to last done. Excellent, we agree. And I'm interested in requirements for multicast transport protocols as they are identified. Spencer --001a114c7b40d0468e055c805531 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Cullen,

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:25 PM, Cullen Jennings <fluffy@iii.ca> wrote:

If we had some other group in the IETF that had put together a multicast tr= ansport protocol that worked well for things like this, I think there would= be interest in using it for delivering firmware updates.

But doing a transport like that is not easy and should not be done in this = WG - I think of it as a fairly different skill set than the people I would = hope would come this WG. If such a thing got developed, I can imagine figur= ing out how to use that transport for this firmware update could be added a= t a later stage to this WG but I would still want to get a non multicast ve= rsion done first as that is what is most needed.

I am aware of the FLUTE work - that seemed hard to use for firmware updates= so I had not pursued that for Cisco devices. If there are people doing fir= mware updates with FLUTE, I would *love* to hear about their experiences at= the BOF. It could easily change my mind.


> On Oct 26, 2017, at 9:01 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
>
> Hi, Cullen,
>
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) <fluffy@cisco.com> wrote:
> Delivery of firmware over a multicast transport mechanism is very hard= and involves significant congestion issue. I don=E2=80=99t think the IETF = currently has a transport protocol that's really suitable for this. I w= ould prefer to see the WG charted for this=C2=A0 to be clearly out of scope= for the first deliverable.
>
> The odds are at least 2:1 that I agree with you, but just to make sure= we're agreeing on the same thing, are you thinking that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 firmware delivery over multicast t= ransport would be out of scope for the first deliverable, or

Probably out of scope for v1 unless a suitable multicast transport p= rotocol already exists.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 firmware delivery over multicast t= ransport with a purpose-specific congestion control would be out of scope f= or the first deliverable, or

If this WG would be doing the congestion control, then yes, out of scope fo= r v1

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 development of a general-purpose m= ulticast transport protocol appropriate for firmware delivery would be out = of scope

Definitely out of scope for this WG to last done.

Excellent, we agree. And I'm interested in requirements for mult= icast transport protocols as they are identified.

= Spencer=C2=A0
--001a114c7b40d0468e055c805531-- From nobody Thu Oct 26 22:23:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62C4137C4A for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 22:23:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EzHeSl7323AW for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 22:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F68C139438 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 22:23:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9R5NXJd018320; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 07:23:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0013.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0013.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3yNXN516q4zDWkg; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 07:23:33 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <8F7E4373-6192-4896-BBF6-3E5585267E11@iii.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 07:23:32 +0200 Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , "suit@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 530774612.183689-880bc81b0ebe698c3e9a171439a8aba2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <41A5F709-8C4A-4966-AE64-9557669D1E4B@tzi.org> References: <3EE7D035-D235-4533-83D6-235A9F366893@cisco.com> <8F7E4373-6192-4896-BBF6-3E5585267E11@iii.ca> To: Cullen Jennings X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Broadcast Delivery X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 05:23:39 -0000 On Oct 27, 2017, at 06:25, Cullen Jennings wrote: >=20 > If we had some other group in the IETF that had put together a = multicast transport protocol that worked well for things like this, I = think there would be interest in using it for delivering firmware = updates. MPL (RFC7731) actually is close enough to being a multicast transport = protocol that it might be useful with some additional profiling. (For a definition of =E2=80=9Cmulticast=E2=80=9D.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Oct 27 08:31:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C71F713F593 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 08:31:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0KIA0cfMfVCf for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 08:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE28B13F59F for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C648A20008; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D16580D54; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:31:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "suit\@ietf.org" cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Cullen Jennings In-Reply-To: <8F7E4373-6192-4896-BBF6-3E5585267E11@iii.ca> References: <3EE7D035-D235-4533-83D6-235A9F366893@cisco.com> <8F7E4373-6192-4896-BBF6-3E5585267E11@iii.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Broadcast Delivery X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 15:31:34 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Cullen Jennings wrote: > But doing a transport like that is not easy and should not be done in > this WG - I think of it as a fairly different skill set than the people > I would hope would come this WG. If such a thing got developed, I can > imagine figuring out how to use that transport for this firmware update > could be added at a later stage to this WG but I would still want to > get a non multicast version done first as that is what is most needed. I agree strongly: multicast is out of scope of this charter and should be. Let's get the formats right and worry less about the transport for now. the charter says: * A mechanism to transport firmware images to IoT devices. but the work items do not include any transport work. My take on this is that in order to get images to class 1 devices that we may have to chop up the image into digestable bits, and this will require a standard way to describe which chunk to transfer next. That might not involve any new technology; it could be done with rfc7233 HTTP/1.1 Range Requests, or could be consist of a JSON manifest that included a bunch of URLs for the chunks, or... there are many pre-existing things. Also, if the devices are arranged in an LLN mesh (via RPL/MPL), then multicast takes on a slightly different flavour than we are used to with ethernet. Depending upon the capabilities of the devices, it might be possible for each layer in the mesh to feed the next layer; a kind of application-layer multicast. Yet, from an *operational* point of view, sometimes it's better to upgrade devices from the leafs inward than from the inside outside, since it's less disruptive if it turns out that there is a problem with the upgrade. > I am aware of the FLUTE work - that seemed hard to use for firmware > updates so I had not pursued that for Cisco devices. If there are > people doing firmware updates with FLUTE, I would *love* to hear about > their experiences at the BOF. It could easily change my mind. :-) Are you thinking about Cisco phone devices which might all be on a flat-ish VLAN? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnzUVIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXYqwgAwLQmKM7ududdCg90ooP1JGYiZcQJDQ1tKHg82pAyaBTfrIXriRZ2nHMP W8yhZsjy3rwQnLhc1iDiz3rGCmRukQx9pOn7HGQSORskDCLZlCn89cvzjSJDFC8Z /bpeEAM1R/Jg3IGMlur96HwuN8voLAuzSaKp4xLGVhtFs0n3ZEUq3yXo5TwUNNba UTsEIIIFYS1I2rK0jcL1eXbjKze8WmyLFMrUFwUIGgr2TvhQ0iDriUPwieREda7x TNMkDCQm32fZKFR5GQTM800LY8o+/mO96WTv31Ob8xpNIYWSlydOHvGPVsAHPTXo c3p5EmAEzW4p+bbKjDHnD2RZbbas7A== =p2Xz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Oct 30 06:43:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315DB13F9E9 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 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(Fed)" To: Brendan Moran , "suit@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Manifest format encodings Thread-Index: AQHTUYfY1mimnyznqkasbW3Z0Deh4aL8fLYg Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:30:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <71CC2B06-F342-45F5-A0B2-EF822B2F2D54@arm.com> In-Reply-To: <71CC2B06-F342-45F5-A0B2-EF822B2F2D54@arm.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=david.waltermire@nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.224.58] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY4PR09MB1493; 6:6JPvNrei7pMHyrXmanpooc/k6mT7TM1zGvNrQdA5wKDDL8c0qYlH7r6lUeH0XmdxVGkwTFg98/kj1OegiT3+6IbUfxjMr57RrFoWhCuDCzyZ/V0cCEZQaniW1I/YB/NSYdfdIjWC25aC8ieJSKtUTFpEgs/xC/ItkM+krtdRHrg2KGRmw9Hby9NB/TWQnTsPeVYcapBDwfpmz8v3p9sRxYsWBuXOKwUvZMkck53QQsch2udOKZAYL2L+dLQFTr6GzdIhmDO02qzePRUMVWSL9IKXDs48+jo1DuIIecBg5pNz+MQE5Z/DWR0Vud3jCIWrZeDXyNpBxtG02u9wXsX6xaVw3lGQat1uiDXewdk06KE=; 5:bdmdPD5JIEFZNW+pIIGC28N8NN4RrIecwcIf/HlsyHA6SqtMHvrDSZ7++uit0MFq13sMTp7UPNFdslXPMd6KCKzryC1FXNbFA9ySbkh2/geSjXizKoDvOp8rddVaAcySalYgnQGiLwCuIV+c0awgT/qqtaK2NG+3nQ1VZS4E+Ck=; 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A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c285ef23-4704-4cbf-3b3f-08d51fab1912 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Oct 2017 15:30:06.1880 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR09MB1493 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest format encodings X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:37:28 -0000 QnJlbmRhbiwNCg0KW0NoYWlyIGhhdCBvZmZdDQoNCkkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGUgc2VyaWFsaXphdGlv biByZXF1aXJlbWVudCBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIG11c3QgYmUgcGFyaXR5IGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIHBy b2R1Y2VyIG9mIHRoZSBtYW5pZmVzdCBhbmQgdGhlIGNhcGFiaWxpdGllcyBvZiB0aGUgZGV2aWNl LiBJIGRvbid0IGJlbGlldmUgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbiBhYnNvbHV0ZSByZXF1aXJlbWVudCBm b3IgYSBzaW5nbGUgY2Fub25pY2FsIHNlcmlhbGl6YXRpb24gZm9ybWF0IGZvciBtYW5pZmVzdHMu IFRoaXMgYWxsb3dzIGRpZmZlcmVudCBzZXRzIG9mIHByb2R1Y3RzIHRvIGNob29zZSB0aGUgc2Vy aWFsaXphdGlvbiBhcHByb2FjaCB0aGF0IG1ha2VzIHRoZSBtb3N0IHNlbnNlIGZvciB0aG9zZSBw cm9kdWN0cy4gSU1ITywgY2hvb3NpbmcgYSBzaW5nbGUgc2VyaWFsaXphdGlvbiBpcyB0b28gbGlt aXRpbmcgYW5kIGRvZXMgbm90IHByb3ZpZGUgZm9yIGNoYW5nZSBvdmVyIHRpbWUgaW4gdGhpcyBz cGFjZSBhcyBuZWVkcy9jYXBhYmlsaXRpZXMgc2hpZnQuDQoNCkkgYmVsaWV2ZSBpdCB3b3VsZCBi ZSBtb3JlIHVzZWZ1bCB0byBmb2N1cyBvbiB3aGF0IG91ciBwcmlvcml0aWVzIGFyZSBpbiB0aGlz IHJlZ2FyZC4gV2hhdCBzaG91bGQgd2Ugd29yayBvbiBmaXJzdCwgc2Vjb25kLCBldGM/DQoNCk5v dGU6IEkgYW0gdXNpbmcgc2VyaWFsaXphdGlvbiB0byBhdm9pZCBjb25mdXNpb24gd2l0aCBjaGFy YWN0ZXIgZW5jb2RpbmdzLiBVbmZvcnR1bmF0ZWx5IHRoZSB0ZXJtaW5vbG9neSBpcyBtdXJreSBh cm91bmQgdGhlc2UgdG9waWNzLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KRGF2ZQ0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwg TWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IFN1aXQgW21haWx0bzpzdWl0LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmdd IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBCcmVuZGFuIE1vcmFuDQo+IFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgT2N0b2JlciAzMCwg MjAxNyAxMDowMyBBTQ0KPiBUbzogc3VpdEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbU3VpdF0gTWFu aWZlc3QgZm9ybWF0IGVuY29kaW5ncw0KPiANCj4gSSBoYXZlIHNlZW4gc2V2ZXJhbCByZW1hcmtz IGVuY291cmFnaW5nIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2YgWE1MLCBKU09OLCBDQk9SLCBldGMuDQo+IG1hbmlmZXN0 cy4gSSBzdHJvbmdseSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGEgc2luZ3VsYXIgY2Fu b25pY2FsDQo+IGVuY29kaW5nIGZvciBtYW5pZmVzdHMuIElmIHRoaXMgaXMgbm90IHRoZSBjYXNl LCBpdCBjcmVhdGVzIGEgdXNhYmlsaXR5IHByb2JsZW0NCj4gZm9yIHRoZSBjcmVhdG9ycyBvZiBt YW5pZmVzdHMsIHdoZXJlIHRoZXkgbmVlZCB0byBrbm93IHdoaWNoIHNvcnQgb2YNCj4gbWFuaWZl c3QgaXMgYWNjZXB0ZWQgYnkgZWFjaCBkZXZpY2UuDQo+IA0KPiBCYXNlZCBvbiB0aGUgZ3Jvd2lu ZyBwb3B1bGFyaXR5IG9mIENCT1IgYW5kIHRoZSBjb21wYWN0bmVzcyBvZiBDT1NFLCBJDQo+IGJl bGlldmUgdGhhdCB0aGUgd2F5IGZvcndhcmQgZm9yIFNVSVQgaXMgYSBzaW5ndWxhciDigJxjYW5v bmljYWzigJ0gZW5jb2RpbmcgaW4NCj4gQ0JPUi4NCj4gDQo+IEJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcywNCj4gQnJl bmRhbg0KPiBJTVBPUlRBTlQgTk9USUNFOiBUaGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBhbmQg YW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIGFyZQ0KPiBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIG1heSBhbHNvIGJlIHByaXZp bGVnZWQuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQsDQo+IHBsZWFzZSBu b3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBhbmQgZG8gbm90IGRpc2Nsb3NlIHRoZSBjb250 ZW50cyB0byBhbnkNCj4gb3RoZXIgcGVyc29uLCB1c2UgaXQgZm9yIGFueSBwdXJwb3NlLCBvciBz dG9yZSBvciBjb3B5IHRoZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpbiBhbnkNCj4gbWVkaXVtLiBUaGFuayB5b3Uu DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IFN1 aXQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IFN1aXRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly9uYTAxLnNhZmVsaW5r cy5wcm90ZWN0aW9uLm91dGxvb2suY29tLz91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cuaQ0KPiBldGYu b3JnJTJGbWFpbG1hbiUyRmxpc3RpbmZvJTJGc3VpdCZkYXRhPTAyJTdDMDElN0NkYXZpZC53YWx0 ZXJtaXJlDQo+ICU0MG5pc3QuZ292JTdDYTEzNjg5NGNlNzc2NDg1N2ZjZTIwOGQ1MWY5ZjAxNTYl N0MyYWI1ZDgyZmQ4ZmE0Nzk3YTkNCj4gM2UwNTQ2NTVjNjFkZWMlN0MxJTdDMCU3QzYzNjQ0OTY5 MDEzNzc1MzYxNCZzZGF0YT1peElMUHV0Qk4yeTd1Nw0KPiBXdjlZTEwlMkJhaUFuOWY4Q09aMTBx SlFGQ0NzdUtrJTNEJnJlc2VydmVkPTANCg== From nobody Mon Oct 30 16:40:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6D613FB6C for ; 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Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:40:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.58.102 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:40:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:40:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: suit@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0826e4fc410762055ccc2be2" Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] SUIT BOF Agenda Time Request - X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 23:40:55 -0000 --089e0826e4fc410762055ccc2be2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello Chairs, Group As a followup on our original mail on the agenda time request, We have submitted following two drafts (requirements and soln architecture) to help discuss on the scope and direction of the SUIT work at the BOF. Could we please request agenda time for these drafts Requirements: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nandakumar-suit-secfu-requirements/?include_text=1 High level Solution Architecture: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nandakumar-suit-secfu-solution-arch/?include_text=1 Thanks Suhas --089e0826e4fc410762055ccc2be2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Chairs, Group

As a followup on our original mail on the agenda time request, We have s= ubmitted following two drafts=C2=A0 (requirements and soln architecture)=C2= =A0 to help discuss on the scope and direction of the SUIT work at the BOF.= =C2=A0

Could we please request agenda time for these draf= ts

Requirements:
--089e0826e4fc410762055ccc2be2-- From nobody Mon Oct 30 17:51:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7E5139394 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:51:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Su5jh--toUoE for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 603B613B42C for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D1B2025C for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F13E81694 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:51:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "suit\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <71CC2B06-F342-45F5-A0B2-EF822B2F2D54@arm.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest format encodings X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 00:51:08 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > I believe the serialization requirement is that there must be parity > between the producer of the manifest and the capabilities of the > device. I don't believe that there is an absolute requirement for a > single canonical serialization format for manifests. This allows > different sets of products to choose the serialization approach that > makes the most sense for those products. IMHO, choosing a single > serialization is too limiting and does not provide for change over time > in this space as needs/capabilities shift. Let me ask and answer some stupid questions in order to agree with you. Q: Why do we need any kind of standard for the blob? We don't really need a standard. We happen to have rfc4108, with it's FirmwarePkgData and other containers. Manufacturers know what the format of their firmware is, and can can produce matching blobs. There is no negotiation here at all. Q: So why do we need a manifest for? A: The manifest tells the device what's in the blob. Integrity codes, version numbers, etc. Again the manufacturer knows exactly what kind of serialization the device supports for the manifest. The device need only support one format, and the manufacturer has to produce that format. Q: so why are we here? A: Because it's useful to have (common) tools and systems that can intermediate the upgrade process, and those devices need to look at the manifest. The device is not the only entity that needs to be able to see into the manifest. But, these other systems that need to look at manifests are not constrained, they are not bootloaders or PXE clients, etc. This means that we should have an abstraction of what's in the manifest. (YANG is pretty good at this, in part because it does not come with a default way to serialize things). Then we should have a set of serializations of the manifests: XML, CBOR/CWT, YAML, JSON/JOSE... and even DER/ASN1. This is what we did in ANIMA with draft-ietf-anima-voucher. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAln3yPkACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWB1QgAv9Ps+ssvLcMav2m32yjAAcDZZncsM7SwKynqB4afRF5vvIpLvaflRozv Y8kgnK051UlJDIDLZ5ENi2W5FKHu9d3J6pZ6U3mkX0GYf09o1rjh6YgiyOe8cJob z95HDvaLzyS8ztX/8yIEAaQxW01noCGjs+k/YuU7aglcd2nyqJ8eHvLh4XBz2+Vb 19u8iectOmg09DTkK/j7q6OF3V//saD/BI+sWj5gQubbD+Cqax1HGP8Oi0E2vbP+ ti9perHpKEDVAzM2Hs1njNAIp58FRDx8Tru2tnVVk/r63jdQTnJ1uodBn6nyzoRa JF0P8FW7b8uIx+hrh3riqGM72X026A== =SHIN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Oct 30 18:41:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5778413FC51 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:41:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WyXhmDw-0kqF for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-edgeKA27.fraunhofer.de (mail-edgeka27.fraunhofer.de [153.96.1.27]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C786613FBE1 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:41:08 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A2FFCQBp299Z/xoHYZleHAEBBAEBCgEBg11kA2snB4NzmVGBSyuYQQoYC4FegzoChD9CFQECAQEBAQEBAQNoKIJqRiwBAQEBAQFPAj4tAQEDAQEBIQ8BBTYQCwkCGgImAgInIBAGDQYCAQGKEgcBBAyNe51ngieLPAEBAQcBAQEBAR4FgQ6CH4IHgVGBaiuCf4VRggoMMYJhBYoijkKIYIEIgSaeGQWHLpU+AgQGBQIZAYE5NSOBDlMmXYUaHIFodYpGAYEQAQEB X-IPAS-Result: A2FFCQBp299Z/xoHYZleHAEBBAEBCgEBg11kA2snB4NzmVGBSyuYQQoYC4FegzoChD9CFQECAQEBAQEBAQNoKIJqRiwBAQEBAQFPAj4tAQEDAQEBIQ8BBTYQCwkCGgImAgInIBAGDQYCAQGKEgcBBAyNe51ngieLPAEBAQcBAQEBAR4FgQ6CH4IHgVGBaiuCf4VRggoMMYJhBYoijkKIYIEIgSaeGQWHLpU+AgQGBQIZAYE5NSOBDlMmXYUaHIFodYpGAYEQAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.43,368,1503352800"; d="scan'208";a="1188080" Received: from mail-mtas26.fraunhofer.de ([153.97.7.26]) by mail-edgeKA27.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 31 Oct 2017 02:41:06 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,321,1505772000"; d="scan'208";a="44464" Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de ([141.12.72.89]) by mail-mtaS26.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 31 Oct 2017 02:41:05 +0100 Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id v9V1f3R0001531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 02:41:05 +0100 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (134.102.43.163) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 02:40:58 +0100 To: References: <71CC2B06-F342-45F5-A0B2-EF822B2F2D54@arm.com> <17522.1509411065@obiwan.sandelman.ca> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 02:40:57 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <17522.1509411065@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [134.102.43.163] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest format encodings X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 01:41:13 -0000 Hello Michael, I hope you do not mind that I provide some friendly comments :) On 10/31/2017 01:51 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Manufacturers know what the format of their firmware is, and can can produce > matching blobs. There is no negotiation here at all. Some people might see that as a benefit. > The device need only support one > format, and the manufacturer has to produce that format. Same as above. And a niche example not intended to sway opinion: vetting of integrity and certification will always be a thing and a huge cost sink. > A: Because it's useful to have (common) tools and systems that can intermediate the > upgrade process, and those devices need to look at the manifest. Sounds sound. > > The device is not the only entity that needs to be able to see into the > manifest. But, these other systems that need to look at manifests are not > constrained, they are not bootloaders or PXE clients, etc. > > This means that we should have an abstraction of what's in the manifest. > > (YANG is pretty good at this, in part because it does not come with a default > way to serialize things). Well YANG comes with three serializations from which most people seem to think XML is the... default, I think? > > Then we should have a set of serializations of the manifests: XML, CBOR/CWT, > YAML, JSON/JOSE... and even DER/ASN1. I just saw XML YAML and DER in that least. From my point, of view that does not let me feel very comfortable in respect to manifests. > > This is what we did in ANIMA with draft-ietf-anima-voucher. And not everyone in ANIMA is happy with this, I think? > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- That said, I do not intend to discourage diversity, but using YANG as an abstraction for ASN.1? :o) Viele Grüße, Henk > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit > From nobody Tue Oct 31 03:34:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC71139507 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 03:34:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham 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b=VoX1Jb7EMZouKOHi6oVTvfPKQNfOcnV6FCQEbMKZt5xDpzxBfNGyMHiHzyiBU1leLrjxdC1rS1XFI/VlWx0vE/mu83jeRlZwdvTV01lyJhTydjgyRTSWyPBWp1UK5NZxJYoK0eUdeC8eJ+a6zMZTvA1EWvAniUODi5FoCBsdR9U= Received: from DB5PR08MB0615.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.169.32.149) by DB5PR0801MB2711.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.166.170.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.178.6; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 10:34:11 +0000 Received: from DB5PR08MB0615.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b123:af71:1ed2:1057]) by DB5PR08MB0615.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b123:af71:1ed2:1057%14]) with mapi id 15.20.0178.012; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 10:34:11 +0000 From: Brendan Moran To: David Brown CC: "suit@ietf.org" , Emmanuel Baccelli , Hannes Tschofenig , "housley@vigilsec.com" , "david.waltermire@nist.gov" , "dev-mcuboot@lists.runtime.co" Thread-Topic: [SUIT] [dev-mcuboot] IoT firmware update standardization efforts @ IETF Thread-Index: AQHTUjPK41PRzYSFs0yOqtFQNH4bLA== Date: Tue, 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Content-ID: <412324583A0EF742AE61024C316CE3EA@eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c7cbea3e-02f5-491d-20ef-08d5204aece3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Oct 2017 10:34:11.5988 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB5PR0801MB2711 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] [SUIT] [dev-mcuboot] IoT firmware update standardization efforts @ IETF X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 10:34:18 -0000 VGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGNvbW1lbnRzLiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhIGZldyB0aGlu 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L2Z1ZA0KDQpJTVBPUlRBTlQgTk9USUNFOiBUaGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBhbmQg YW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIGFyZSBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIG1heSBhbHNvIGJlIHByaXZpbGVn ZWQuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkg dGhlIHNlbmRlciBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBhbmQgZG8gbm90IGRpc2Nsb3NlIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyB0 byBhbnkgb3RoZXIgcGVyc29uLCB1c2UgaXQgZm9yIGFueSBwdXJwb3NlLCBvciBzdG9yZSBvciBj b3B5IHRoZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpbiBhbnkgbWVkaXVtLiBUaGFuayB5b3UuDQo= From nobody Tue Oct 31 11:51:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B75013F5F0 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:51:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ihgiE5Hx0sWR for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B78613F5BD for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B58620249; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEC681694; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:51:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Henk Birkholz cc: suit@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <71CC2B06-F342-45F5-A0B2-EF822B2F2D54@arm.com> <17522.1509411065@obiwan.sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest format encodings X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 18:51:15 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Henk Birkholz wrote: >> The device is not the only entity that needs to be able to see into the >> manifest. But, these other systems that need to look at manifests are not >> constrained, they are not bootloaders or PXE clients, etc. >> >> This means that we should have an abstraction of what's in the manifest. >> >> (YANG is pretty good at this, in part because it does not come with a default >> way to serialize things). > Well YANG comes with three serializations from which most people seem to > think XML is the... default, I think? No, that's really not the case. There really isn't a default, but people had to start someplace. YANG serializes to XML easily, but most people want to go to JSON, and there are now ways to go to CBOR directly. >> Then we should have a set of serializations of the manifests: XML, CBOR/CWT, >> YAML, JSON/JOSE... and even DER/ASN1. > I just saw XML YAML and DER in that least. From my point, of view that does > not let me feel very comfortable in respect to manifests. So, don't use XML or DER. Both make me ill. Someone who has a device which already does extensive xml parsing might want it. (Not me!) >> This is what we did in ANIMA with draft-ietf-anima-voucher. > And not everyone in ANIMA is happy with this, I think? The feedback has mostly been about people thought that because we gave an example in draft-ietf-anima-voucher that involved PKCS/CMS signed JSON, that this was the only format allowed. That was never the intention, and we fixed that. >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > That said, I do not intend to discourage diversity, but using YANG as an > abstraction for ASN.1? :o) ASN.1 is akin to CBOR's CDDL in the kinds of structures that it can describe. DER is akin to CBOR. (Except that ASN.1 is so general and OIDs so silly as to piss everyone off) Ultimately YANG needs arrays and dictionaries (and nesting of them). So you don't really describe the ASN.1 with YANG, rather, you probably use ASN.1 to describe a nestable container in which you can translate YANG attributes. Again... it's not something I want to do, but for those that enjoy it, they can do so. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAln4xiAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWtFAgAn2Kq312G5w9ucH5iNI8clufhor0C8T9/Knl4Dbv/A1dQzwFojSX67vty WwmD8rB9kheraZiM1fChKxrRc8VyK1COspu6+jEaNouDEaSlxCVByJUg29RXNDEV zZIYxwhmLIkwEFnhrBB23N5q46CetwZ3jBkjWQdlZV7C2uMoKy8I6XuGORw5Vnnq RiMH1HtzQMnOdDY9j6dPwEdNzNVo7VI0wHVhuII/NylU0iXdIMJomZQkRhGMwfrG jh6YXJDg+05s9eFiDuzWH36ucOGXwlnqA299+ejRfAjzXqisaYmqN1D17wcW/898 RkkzULr87Ze7dtg9FLTKj4z4YQhHsg== =tyDi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--