Subject: RE: XML payload was Re: [Syslog] RE: Message format

From: "Alexander Clemm \(alex\)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:35:42 -0800

There should be no issue with allowing different types of payload format
in the message text.  If someone wants to define syslog messages with a
message text that happens to be formatted as XML, that should not be an
issue but constitutes a valid scenario.  Syslog is a mechanism, a tool;
what particular messages you define respectively use this for should be
up to the individual implementation.  Just my 2 cents.  
--- Alex 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Tom Petch
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 1:06 PM
To: Moehrke, John (GE Healthcare)
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: XML payload was Re: [Syslog] RE: Message format

Sounds more like one for the netconf WG, where XML is king, backwards
compatability is not an issue, messages can be orders of magnitudes
larger, security is inherent etc etc.  The only downside is that work on
notifications/events has only just started but one school of thought is
that it should be syslog-like.

What you want could be to netconf as private.enterprises is to SNMP.

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Moehrke, John (GE Healthcare)" <[email-masked]>
To: "Darren Reed" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syslog] RE: Message format

I don't think we are asking for anything specific. The XML payload (RFC
3881) is text, and somewhat human readable. We went with XML payload
because we have well defined object identifiers that have been
standardized and used throughout the hospital by many different systems
provided by many different vendors. These identifiers cover data
objects, patients, doctors, equipment, drugs, orders, etc... Taking this
nicely coded information and putting it into a unformatted string seemed
very counter. The XML string is descriptive enough that simple string
parsing works, but is also well defined so that XML parsing can be done
as well.

What I am trying to do is figure out if the charter for this group is
really to force the payload to be a human readable text string, or if
the payload can include an XML formatted event description.

We do not need binary. We do not need Mega-Byte MTUs. We really have
tried to fit within the requirements that we understood syslog to have.
We (healthcare) want to do what we do best (treat patients), and leave
you (syslog) community to what you do best. We don't want to
analyze/report/alert/etc on security events, we expect you are experts
in this field. It is a shame to see this get in the way of an
opportunity for both of us.

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Reed [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:09 AM
> To: Moehrke, John (GE Healthcare)
> Cc: [email-masked]; Rainer Gerhards; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [Syslog] RE: Message format
>
> > To all,
> >
> > The view that syslog must only be used to transport "human readable 
> > syslog messages" is disturbing. Is this the view of the syslog 
> > community?
>
> At present what we're concerned with is a logging facility that does 
> generate and consume human readable messages.
>
> At some point in the future, when we have agreement on the human 
> readable version, then we can consider what to do with messages that 
> aren't human readable.
>
> So while I accept your assertion, addressing it is out of scope for 
> the current discussion.  We have smaller fish to fry, first, before 
> attempting the big ones.  Trying to solve "all the problems" is what 
> got this group into the situation we are in now.  We need to take a 
> step back and focus on resolving smaller and more well defined 
> problems before looking at a "grand unified logging protocol" (GULP).
>
> Nothing lasts forever, not even standards.
>
> Darren
>

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