FW: syslog WG status for saag

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From syslog-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 8 16:22:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: syslog-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF54D3A686D; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:22:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 514DF3A6836 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:22:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z1YflcR2u3g6 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB663A686D for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,737,1220227200"; d="scan'208,217";a="209112925" Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Dec 2008 00:22:40 +0000 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id mB90MeoG019266; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:22:40 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mB90MehG007603; Tue, 9 Dec 2008 00:22:40 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-236.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.121]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:22:40 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:22:34 -0800 Message-ID: <85B2F271FDF6B949B3672BA5A7BB62FB06D30E9F@xmb-sjc-236.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1BA601B02314084980FE9D0630FE9793053F8D36@xmb-sjc-227.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: syslog-sign (was: RE: [Syslog] FW: syslog WG status for saag) Thread-Index: AclKgSu/5BKeKNAwRIeVGWM0pEiuFwBmcp1qA14dg+A= References: <1BA601B02314084980FE9D0630FE9793053F8D36@xmb-sjc-227.amer.cisco.com> From: "Alexander Clemm (alex)" To: "Chris Lonvick (clonvick)" , , "David Harrington" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2008 00:22:40.0854 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F48D760:01C95994] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=9795; t=1228782160; x=1229646160; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=alex@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Alexander=20Clemm=20(alex)=22=20 |Subject:=20syslog-sign=20(was=3A=20RE=3A=20[Syslog]=20FW=3 A=20syslog=20WG=20status=20for=20saag) |Sender:=20; bh=JweDZhFi7TGqQ2M5Ig6+FuX9wUA0COruUXt4MFNtet8=; b=QZc8RWxkAnUiDpoO6R5G8lrLDT9GaGnVA90nW+D5D3YwZrZNhsTWRng2Ox csKcpRNx7m/l1FpRD1IDRcJ/yPI2pV2hOz2w3LdDcDvEIAC5CyC0Ot6Oq28b N6/Qc5jQhp; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=alex@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); Subject: [Syslog] syslog-sign (was: RE: FW: syslog WG status for saag) X-BeenThere: syslog@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Issues in Network Event Logging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0639412376==" Sender: syslog-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: syslog-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0639412376== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C95994.3BFDBBFC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C95994.3BFDBBFC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 FYI, as anticipated by David and Chris, I have just posted the syslog-sign draft which should appear momentarily. Please kindly review and verify that your issues have been resolved, as applicable. =20 =20 Thank you --- Alex =20 =20 =20 From: syslog-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:syslog-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Chris Lonvick (clonvick) Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:52 PM To: syslog@ietf.org Subject: [Syslog] FW: syslog WG status for saag =20 Hi Folks, An update for the group which David submitted to our ADs this week. David and I stopped by the RFC Editor's desk yesterday. We asked about our 4 documents and were assured that they are all going to be placed into AUTH48 this week. Also, draft-ietf-ipcdn-pktc-eventmess-14.txt has dependencies upon our documents which have been cleared and so is also going forward. This leaves us with our final piece of work which is syslog-sign. Alex has been addressing the comments from the list and will put out a new draft (hopefully) next week. Let's focus on this and get 'er done. Since there are several changes, we don't want to point out each one, but will ask people to review the document and verify that your issue(s) has been resolved. As always, please send in a note to the list after review to let us know that we have WG consensus on it. Thanks, Chris and David -----Original Message----- From: David Harrington [mailto:ietfdbh@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:58 AM Pacific Standard Time To: 'Pasi Eronen'; 'Tim Polk' Cc: Chris Lonvick (clonvick) Subject: syslog WG status for saag Hi, The syslog WG did not meet at ietf73. The protocol, udp, and tls documents are in the RFC-Editor queue, and auth48 should start this week. The syslog-sign document is in AD review, and a new revision should be published within a week. We expect one more revision will be needed, mostly for editorial fixes. The chairs recommend that once this work completes, the syslog WG be closed. There is one charter item not completed - a MIB module. The WG believes syslog.conf is widely used and appropriate for configuration. Existing applications already provide log analysis. Due to OS differences in syslog approaches, a single standard MIB module is problematic for monitoring syslog statistics and state. Other syslog-related data modeling is being done in the OPSAWG WG. MIB modules for monitoring syslog state be developed in the OPSAWG WG, where operators can help define what information and format would be most useful to them. David Harrington dbharrington@comcast.net ietfdbh@comcast.net dharrington@huawei.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C95994.3BFDBBFC Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FW: syslog WG status for saag

Hi,

FYI, as anticipated by David and Chris, I have just = posted the syslog-sign draft which should appear momentarily. Please kindly = review and verify that your issues have been resolved, as applicable. =

Thank you

--- Alex

From:= = syslog-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:syslog-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Chris Lonvick = (clonvick)
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:52 PM
To: syslog@ietf.org
Subject: [Syslog] FW: syslog WG status for = saag

Hi = Folks,

An update for the group which David submitted to our ADs this week.

David and I stopped by the RFC Editor's desk yesterday. We asked = about our 4 documents and were assured that they are all going to be placed = into AUTH48 this week. Also, draft-ietf-ipcdn-pktc-eventmess-14.txt has dependencies upon our documents which have been cleared and so is also = going forward.

This leaves us with our final piece of work which is syslog-sign. = Alex has been addressing the comments from the list and will put out a new = draft (hopefully) next week. Let's focus on this and get 'er done. = Since there are several changes, we don't want to point out each one, but will = ask people to review the document and verify that your issue(s) has been resolved. As always, please send in a note to the list after = review to let us know that we have WG consensus on it.

Thanks,
Chris and David

-----Original Message-----
From: David Harrington [mailto:ietfdbh@comcast.net]
Sent:   Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:58 AM Pacific Standard = Time
To:     'Pasi Eronen'; 'Tim Polk'
Cc:     Chris Lonvick (clonvick)
Subject:        syslog WG status for = saag

Hi,

The syslog WG did not meet at ietf73.

The protocol, udp, and tls documents are in the RFC-Editor queue, = and
auth48 should start this week. The syslog-sign document is in AD
review, and a new revision should be published within a week. We
expect one more revision will be needed, mostly for editorial fixes.

The chairs recommend that once this work completes, the syslog WG be
closed.

There is one charter item not completed - a MIB module. The WG
believes syslog.conf is widely used and appropriate for = configuration.
Existing applications already provide log analysis. Due to OS
differences in syslog approaches, a single standard MIB module is
problematic for monitoring syslog statistics and state. Other
syslog-related data modeling is being done in the OPSAWG WG. MIB
modules for monitoring syslog state be developed in the OPSAWG WG,
where operators can help define what information and format would be
most useful to them.

David Harrington
dbharrington@comcast.net
ietfdbh@comcast.net
dharrington@huawei.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01C95994.3BFDBBFC-- --===============0639412376== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Syslog mailing list Syslog@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog --===============0639412376==-- From knapp@3wire.com Tue Dec 9 14:47:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E0B3A687B for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:47:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.57 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.124, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c1Xv55d-ilPZ for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:47:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from altelco.net (unknown [189.83.170.72]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 59ADC3A67FC for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:47:00 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Delivery Status Notification From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081209224702.59ADC3A67FC@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:47:00 -0800 (PST)

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From syslog-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 10 12:51:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: syslog-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874EE3A682B; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:51:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE88A3A682B for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.370, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QQ2bX5F+0QQA for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:51:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 201763A63EC for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,748,1220227200"; d="scan'208";a="113701489" Received: from sj-dkim-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.79]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Dec 2008 20:51:42 +0000 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by sj-dkim-5.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id mBAKpgkR023684 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:51:42 -0800 Received: from sjc-cde-011.cisco.com (sjc-cde-011.cisco.com [171.69.16.68]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mBAKpgpj022977 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:51:42 GMT Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:51:42 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Lonvick To: syslog@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1462; t=1228942302; x=1229806302; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim5002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=clonvick@cisco.com; z=From:=20Chris=20Lonvick=20 |Subject:=20Status=20Update |Sender:=20; bh=LWQLJl252UmBDzQRjk6TmtB8u7EWHkkVWMU3deg1aYo=; b=RsEsr2kNqUFV2sZ4ugQhWKOfT5WWtSoHpa/QlruWYSdQiL0+OOqgx7Uz0t tbPAInIXSOOUgAdBHtI0iQwOBTgRhuIIVm8YnRzoka7jgJyLBYSBLlcQ7loB oTSSC6pGGx; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-5; header.From=clonvick@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); Subject: [Syslog] Status Update X-BeenThere: syslog@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Issues in Network Event Logging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: syslog-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: syslog-bounces@ietf.org Hi Folks, Just a quick update for everyone. Here's the lineup for our documents: "The syslog Protocol" will be RFC 5424 "TLS Transport Mapping for Syslog" will be RFC 5425 "Transmission of syslog messages over UDP" will be RFC 5426 "Textual Conventions for Syslog Management" will be RFC 5427 All of these have been approved and will be published RSN. The holdup is a problem that David found in one of his final reviews. In "The syslog Protocol", Rainer has examples using "0" for the Enterprise ID. ...which seemed resonable to all of us when he first proposed it. However, there is no "example" Enterprise ID and "0" is actually reserved for IANA. David has requested that the IANA create an example Enterprise ID so that we can use that in this and other RFCs. The RFC Editor will publish our documents just as soon as we get an answer back from the IANA. For those of you interested, draft-ietf-ipcdn-eventmess-14 will be published as RFC 5428, "Management Event Management Information Base (MIB) for PacketCable- and IPCablecom-Compliant Devices". This document references our works so the RFC Editor placed it into the same batch. In the meantime, Alex is submitting the latest version of syslog-sign which has updates to address the IESG review and some other comments. When it gets into the ID repository, please look it over to make sure that it addresses any comments that you made. Thanks, Chris _______________________________________________ Syslog mailing list Syslog@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog From larantes@ajinfo.com.br Wed Dec 10 13:11:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0361C3A6942 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:11:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.012 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.012 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nHU80GDzUnOo for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from 105-8.78-83.cust.bluewin.ch (105-38.78-83.cust.bluewin.ch [83.78.38.105]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 44C1D3A682B for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:11:01 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 081208-0, 08.12.2008), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Message-Id: <20081210211103.44C1D3A682B@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:11:01 -0800 (PST)

From syslog-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 10 16:15:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: syslog-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2953A69F0; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:15:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: syslog@ietf.org Delivered-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id D016C3A69F0; Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:15:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20081211001501.D016C3A69F0@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:15:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: syslog@ietf.org Subject: [Syslog] I-D Action:draft-ietf-syslog-sign-24.txt X-BeenThere: syslog@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Issues in Network Event Logging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: syslog-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Security Issues in Network Event Logging Working Group of the IETF. Title : Signed syslog Messages Author(s) : J. Kelsey, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-syslog-sign-24.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2008-12-10 This document describes a mechanism to add origin authentication, message integrity, replay resistance, message sequencing, and detection of missing messages to the transmitted syslog messages. This specification is intended to be used in conjunction with the work defined in [RFC5424], "The syslog Protocol". A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-syslog-sign-24.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-syslog-sign-24.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-12-10160806.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Syslog mailing list Syslog@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog --NextPart-- From observe@a54321.com Thu Dec 11 04:03:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B17A3A67B3 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:03:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -40.832 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-40.832 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6B7Yhdp8AwER for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from allenovery.com (unknown [85.97.146.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 192453A68C6 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:03:54 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081211120355.192453A68C6@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:03:54 -0800 (PST)

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From mmiranda@alicopsa.cl Fri Dec 12 13:10:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7042B3A6B1A for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:10:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.938 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.938 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.124, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_73=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2iKRMHTgD1SZ for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from adventisthealthcare.com (unknown [201.19.91.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E653E3A68B4 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:10:39 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081212211040.E653E3A68B4@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:10:39 -0800 (PST)

Last day of sale

caused cats and dogs to both go into kidney failure.and is due to arrive at New York's John F. Kennedy
From jcollins@amtelecom.net Fri Dec 12 20:08:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D87923A6986 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:08:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.668 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.668 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.124, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SN3Spt2UZEoN for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from amboxco.com (unknown [201.29.177.145]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 784F83A67D7 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:08:43 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your order From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081213040844.784F83A67D7@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:08:43 -0800 (PST)

Most prices are cut

9 overs.Baseball games, but that he never bet against his team
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to devalue the pound. Answering his critics, he declares that if, asThis is a man with huge doubts, says Catherine Charlton, a voice From jinayj@3celltech.com Tue Dec 16 05:19:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE433A6910 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:19:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.941 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.941 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_60=1, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I0eDf+EcXjrd for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from 245-51-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net (245-51-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net [91.124.51.245]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C92CC3A688A for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:19:01 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Delivery Status Notification From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081216131901.C92CC3A688A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:19:01 -0800 (PST)

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From syslog-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 18 13:10:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: syslog-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B664628C0DC; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:10:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E9AD3A6B80 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:10:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.322 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.322 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.277, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VVRS6TYoJmeG for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3808C3A68BB for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:10:25 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.36,245,1228089600"; d="scan'208";a="56649985" Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Dec 2008 21:10:17 +0000 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id mBILAHMX013186 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:10:17 -0800 Received: from sjc-cde-011.cisco.com (sjc-cde-011.cisco.com [171.69.16.68]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mBILAHe3023248 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:10:17 GMT Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:10:17 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Lonvick To: syslog@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1044; t=1229634617; x=1230498617; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=clonvick@cisco.com; z=From:=20Chris=20Lonvick=20 |Subject:=20Reviews=20of=20syslog-sign=20before=20the=20Hol idays |Sender:=20; bh=9LdPisBLWwoiM/AOlvJa1hYcfZjQTZCQV98y3xhbsSM=; b=n0PctdZDGvhzYLHRJWqHgqZdt5NUGxcKrBThtoHV6GsusbHKtnC1vmrwwY 3Jh5Y/KlOHeYqHXy5lPWAkCop4dddzWFLmBB2jlP5/hfLhHLGn80UoxQy9jM R65Y39W6C3qgZAx5ZDxfa6vdSYOcp9VpJS/Q7wohONR+bxMGs2dS8=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=clonvick@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); Subject: [Syslog] Reviews of syslog-sign before the Holidays X-BeenThere: syslog@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Issues in Network Event Logging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: syslog-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: syslog-bounces@ietf.org Hi, David and I will be awarding (virtual) GOLD STARS to each and every person who reviews draft-ietf-syslog-sign before going away for the Holidays. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-syslog-sign-24.txt The diffs from previous versions may be found here: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/syslog/ The changes from the previous version to this version were to address Pasi's AD review and some additional comments. We think that Alex has done this but more reviews would be appreciated. All issues with RFCs-to-be 5424-5428 have been resolved and we are awaiting publication by the RFC Editor. (Many thanks to our dedicated RFC Editor, btw :-) The biggest holdup was getting the IANA to dedicate a Private Enterprise Number to be used for examples. Pasi and David worked that out and have even produced an ID to document that. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-eronen-enterprise-number-documentation-00.txt My best wishes for a Happy Holiday and a Prosperous New Year. Best regards, Chris _______________________________________________ Syslog mailing list Syslog@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog From syslog-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 18 18:12:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: syslog-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8F73A67E4; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:12:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: syslog@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2DA3A687A for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:05:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.418 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.181, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8-VevGR7N4Ux for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from EXHUB017-3.exch017.msoutlookonline.net (exhub017-3.exch017.msoutlookonline.net [64.78.22.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838F63A6872 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.6.238] (64.127.105.60) by smtpx17.msoutlookonline.net (64.78.22.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.278.0; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:05:04 -0800 Message-ID: From: Raffael Marty To: syslog@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:05:04 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: Rainer Gerhards Subject: [Syslog] Syslog RFC feedback X-BeenThere: syslog@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Issues in Network Event Logging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; DelSp="yes" Sender: syslog-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: syslog-bounces@ietf.org I am really late to the game here. I know. I just wanted to share some feedback that I had about the current state of the syslog document: - Let me say this first: I really like some of the changes that have been incorporated. - Syslog message facility: Why do we still keep this? The only reason that I see people using the facility is to filter messages. There are better ways to do that. Some of the pre-assigned groups are fairly arbitrary and not even really implemented in most OSs. UUCP subsystem? Who is still using that? I guess the reason for keeping it is backwards compatibility? If possible, I would really like this to be gone. - Priority calculation. The whole priority field is funky. The priority does not really have any meaning. The order does not imply importance. Why having this at all? - Timestamps: What's the reason for having the "T" in the timestamp? Having looked at hundreds of different log formats, I have never seen anything like that. Why doing this? - Hostname: I am not comfortable with the whole hostname spec. I like that there is an ordering and people are supposed to use FQDN, but there are many questions about this. To start with, in a lot of UNIX configurations, /etc/hosts contains an entry like: 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost The second column is the FQDN (technically). Is that one that can be used? Can you make it clear that this is not what should be used? Same for 127.0.0.1 or the loopback address in general. How does a machine know whether an IP address is static or dynamic? How does a logging application know? I don't think you will ever know that. Did you mean a private versus a public address? That might be interesting. Furthermore, it should specify which interface's IP address to use. The one the message is sent out on? - Under the section of PROCID: The text is imprecise. This number is not the process ID of the syslog process, it's the ID of the writing process. The third paragraph talks about detecting restarted applications and somehow mixes in the syslog process. ("might be assigned the same process ID as the previous syslog process".) This is not clear at all and very very confusing - MSGID: Make clear that this ID is local to the application. It's not a global ID at all. The biggest issue I have around the SD-ID field: - I like that the user can extend these. - Why is this structure so complicated? Why not going with a simple set of key-value pairs? This whole structure thing is so complicated. Parsing it, you need to keep state! You need to remember the SD-ID for each SD-PARAM. Why introducing this? Just stick with simple key-value pairs. That makes parsing easier. Much easier. And it makes the events easier to produce as well. - By keeping an explicit message field (the unstructured part), you encourage people to still log in that way. I recommend using an explicit field (or parameter) that can be used to include human readable text. Instead of this: <165>1 2003-08-24T05:14:15.000003-07:00 192.0.2.1 myproc 8710 - - %% It's time to make the do-nuts. use: <165>1 2003-08-24T05:14:15.000003-07:00 192.0.2.1 myproc 8710 - message="%% It's time to make the do-nuts." or really: 1 2003-08-24 05:14:15.000003-07:00 host=192.0.2.1 process=myproc procid=8710 message="%% It's time to make the do-nuts." - I definitely like the consideration of some of the special fields (structured data IDs). However, they should be used as simple keys (or parameters) that have special meaning. - Parameter - origin: What does it mean to have multiple origins IPs? Is that a syslog forwarding chain? The document does not say anything about that. Also, we already have the host field in the beginning of the syslog messages. What's the relationship to that? Or is origin something completely different? - Parameters - I would really like to see some use-cases for all of the IDs. Especially the sequenceId. I am assuming this is something that the syslog daemon assigns, not the logging application. Right? I think that needs to be clearer. For the sequenceId, what happens for forwarded messages? Are these IDs local? Are they forwarded along with a message? Also, how does the logging application know about the timeQuality? Or if that something that the syslog daemon assigns, how does it know? - I would really like to see the parameters to go away and have a generic key-value extension. In addition, IANA should have a set of allowed/defined keys. The parameters should be part of those. Each key has a special meaning (semantics). There should be a whole lot of them: src_ip, user_name, etc. Each producer should be free to add additional keys, realizing that not all consumers would understand their semantics. However, the consumers could still read them. That's it for now. Thanks a lot -raffy -- Raffael Marty Chief Security Strategist @ Splunk> Security Visualization: http://secviz.org raffy.ch/blog _______________________________________________ Syslog mailing list Syslog@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog From leave-264815-295969n@alexander.lyris.net Thu Dec 18 22:05:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE033A67F7 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:05:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -37.445 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-37.445 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F4cqlkIKQZfr for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from adeco.fr (unknown [118.94.67.87]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 17DDF3A67F3 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:05:18 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Your powerful uprise will excite women From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081219060519.17DDF3A67F3@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:05:18 -0800 (PST)

From kamerman@aafes.com Thu Dec 18 23:38:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-syslog-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 496143A67F4 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:38:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -23.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-23.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_80=2, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WdfdNMyfHbbd for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:38:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from athedsl-310143.home.otenet.gr (athedsl-310143.home.otenet.gr [85.72.67.29]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E23633A6828 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:38:37 -0800 (PST) To: