From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Feb 19 16:43:58 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10008 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:43:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AtvxC-00047m-DH for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:43:30 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1JLhU5i015850 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:43:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AtvxC-00047W-5p for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:43:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09606 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:43:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AtvxA-0002GC-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:43:28 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AtvwC-0002DX-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:42:29 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Atvvj-0002Ap-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:41:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Atvvk-0003zl-7R; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:42:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AtvvH-0003xz-1i for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:41:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA08061 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:41:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AtvvE-00029w-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:41:29 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AtvuH-000275-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:40:29 -0500 Received: from boreas.isi.edu ([128.9.160.161]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Atvtv-00024H-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:40:07 -0500 Received: from pun.isi.edu (pun.isi.edu [128.9.160.150]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i1JLe7v29677 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from pun.isi.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pun.isi.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i1JLe6no079598 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:40:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from faber@pun.isi.edu) Received: (from faber@localhost) by pun.isi.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i1JLe6hK079597 for tcpm@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:40:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from faber) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:40:06 -0800 From: Ted Faber To: tcpm@ietf.org Message-ID: <20040219214006.GC79075@pun.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BI5RvnYi6R4T2M87" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Subject: [tcpm] Welcome to tcpm Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 --BI5RvnYi6R4T2M87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi folks! Welcome to the TCPM working group. We look forward to a great working group. A few notes as we start off... * The TCPM charter is here: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/tcpm-charter.html * TCPM will meet in Seoul. The indication has not yet made it on to the final agenda, but TCPM will split the time-slot allocated to TSV-WG (Monday; 3:30-5:30). If you have agenda items that you believe fall within TCPM please send requests to us offlist. If you have previously sent requests to Jon and Allison for TSV-WG agenda time, but you think TCPM is the more appropriate place please let us know that, too. * We really need everyone to provide solid and timely review to drafts that are posted to the TCPM list for comment. This is how things move along in the IETF and so we need a bunch of help in this area from everyone. In particular, since we are inheriting some documents from TSV-WG that are close to being ready to forward we need to get these things reviewed fairly quickly. (You'll see calls for review for individual drafts under seperate cover.) * In grepping through the I-D archives we have noted a bunch of drafts that are not on the TCPM charter but look to be within the scope of TCPM. If you are the author of such a draft and would like to think about moving it through TCPM with us that'd be great -- please send us a note. * There are two TCP documents that are staying in TSV-WG because WGLC has started in that group and introducing a move to a new group may hinder progress. This applies to the Early Retransmit i-d (draft-allman-tcp-early-rexmt-03.txt) and the Eifel Response i-d (draft-ietf-tsvwg-tcp-eifel-response-04.txt). Thanks in advance for all your help. We are looking forward to a great WG. Ted & Mark --BI5RvnYi6R4T2M87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFANS02aUz3f+Zf+XsRAu/AAKDM3D625ub0Q5dhhhILJTBSWggfTwCgmHX+ G9o0H6Z0YGk6pJFiTF4se7Y= =W7nN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BI5RvnYi6R4T2M87-- _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Feb 23 07:01:40 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA20934 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:01:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvElt-0000SO-W3 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:01:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1NC1DeZ001756 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:01:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvElt-0000S0-41 for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:01:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA20928 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:01:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvElo-0003Z2-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:01:08 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AvEkt-0003W0-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:00:12 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvEkP-0003Sy-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:59:41 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvEjl-0000Kl-0S; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:59:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvEiy-0000JN-04 for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:58:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA20839 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:58:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvEit-0003Oy-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:58:07 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AvEhv-0003MN-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:57:08 -0500 Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvEhZ-0003Jh-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:56:45 -0500 Received: from esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (esdks003.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.158]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i1NBuiH00477; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:56:44 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:56:30 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.13 2004020314 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id i1NBuUwM023813; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:56:30 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com 00FwMPVx; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:56:29 EET Received: from esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh001.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.28]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i1NBuNO00229; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:56:24 +0200 (EET) Received: from siddha.research.nokia.com ([172.21.40.117]) by esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:56:24 +0200 From: Pasi Sarolahti To: tcpm@ietf.org Cc: Markku Kojo Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Nokia Research Center Message-Id: <1077537382.31444.32.camel@siddha.research.nokia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:56:23 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2004 11:56:24.0083 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F594E30:01C3FA04] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [tcpm] New version of F-RTO draft Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, We submitted a revision of F-RTO draft ("F-RTO: An Algorithm for Detecting Spurious Retransmission Timeouts with TCP and SCTP", draft-ietf-tsvwg-tcp-frto-01.txt) under the tsvwg last week. The draft will be moved under the tcpm wg, and we will resubmit it with a new name once the draft submission is opened again after Seoul IETF. We think the draft is ready for WG last call, so please read the draft and let us know of any comments you may have. The best place for further discussion on this draft will be under the tcpm mailing list. There haven't been much changes on the draft recently. Between draft-ietf-tsvwg-tcp-frto-00.txt (Oct '03) and draft-ietf-tsvwg-tcp-frto-01.txt (Feb '04) the main changes were: - A number of editorial changes to make the draft more readable - Rewrote parts of section 4: "Taking Actions after Detecting Spurious RTO". It earlier listed three examples for responding to spurious retransmission timeout. Those were removed, because they weren't up to date with the current versions of refered response algorithms, and we did not want to keep updating the section in case there are any future changes on the algorithms. Therefore we now briefly list the known response algorithms and give references to the I-Ds and papers that discuss responding to spurious timeout. And to give some additional context for reviewing the draft, the main changes in the previous update from draft-sarolahti-tsvwg-tcp-frto-04.txt (Jun '03) to draft-ietf-tsvwg-tcp-frto-00.txt were: - Made the algorithm description more compact by moving much of the explaining text out of the algorithm definition. - Added section 5. "SCTP Considerations" that discusses applying the F-RTO algorithm with SCTP protocol. - Added a requirement for SACK-based F-RTO algorithm that it would not be applied when earlier loss recovery is underway. This made it possible to simplify the algorithm, especially since the usefulness of detecting spurious RTO under existing loss recovery can be argued. However, we added Appendix B that discusses this topic. - Did some editing on examples with different scenarios in Appendix A to make it more understandable and readable. Thanks to all who gave us feedback on the topics above! - Pasi & Markku _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Feb 23 23:33:12 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12739 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:33:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvUFR-0000MO-1P for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:45 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1O4Wjbg001378 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:45 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvUFQ-0000M9-SD for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12729 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUFO-0003Tk-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:42 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUEU-0003Pg-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:31:47 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUDl-0003LP-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:31:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvUDm-0000Gw-13; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:31:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvUDS-0000Fi-9m for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12635 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUDQ-0003K0-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:40 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUCT-0003GG-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:29:42 -0500 Received: from adsl-68-76-113-50.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net ([68.76.113.50] helo=guns.icir.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUBb-00039W-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:28:47 -0500 Received: from lawyers.icir.org (adsl-68-76-113-50.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net [68.76.113.50]) by guns.icir.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 719FC77AA1E; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:28:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from lawyers.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lawyers.icir.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98F0210B40D; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:05:29 -0500 (EST) To: tcpm@ietf.org Cc: faber@isi.edu From: Mark Allman Reply-To: mallman@icir.org Organization: ICSI Center for Internet Research (ICIR) Song-of-the-Day: Werewolves of London Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:05:29 -0500 Message-Id: <20040224040529.98F0210B40D@lawyers.icir.org> Subject: [tcpm] agenda items? Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 If anyone has agenda requests for TCPM in Korea that they have not sent to Ted and I, please do so ASAP. Thanks, allman -- Mark Allman -- ICIR -- http://www.icir.org/mallman/ _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Feb 23 23:33:13 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12756 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:33:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvUFR-0000Mj-LT for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:46 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1O4WjAd001398 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:45 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvUFR-0000MT-Fh for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12732 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUFP-0003Ts-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:32:43 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUEV-0003Po-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:31:47 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUDl-0003LQ-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:31:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvUDl-0000GW-9s; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:31:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AvUDR-0000Fd-J3 for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12632 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUDP-0003Jv-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:39 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUCT-0003G8-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:29:41 -0500 Received: from adsl-68-76-113-50.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net ([68.76.113.50] helo=guns.icir.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AvUBb-00039V-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:28:47 -0500 Received: from lawyers.icir.org (adsl-68-76-113-50.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net [68.76.113.50]) by guns.icir.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0A777AA1F; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:28:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from lawyers.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lawyers.icir.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA3010B444; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:20:01 -0500 (EST) To: tcpm@ietf.org From: Mark Allman Reply-To: mallman@icir.org Cc: Pasi Sarolahti , Markku Kojo Subject: Re: [tcpm] New version of F-RTO draft In-Reply-To: <1077537382.31444.32.camel@siddha.research.nokia.com> Organization: ICSI Center for Internet Research (ICIR) Song-of-the-Day: Werewolves of London Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:20:01 -0500 Message-Id: <20040224042001.DAA3010B444@lawyers.icir.org> Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 > draft-ietf-tsvwg-tcp-frto-01.txt (Feb '04) I would also like to put on my pointy chair hat for a moment and encourage folks to read over this draft and send comments to the list. And, comments of the form "looks good" are also very welcome to help re-sync everything in the new group. If you said something previously in tsvwg and it has not been addressed, please retransmit so that Ted and I have a good idea about where this draft is at. Thanks! allman -- Mark Allman -- ICIR -- http://www.icir.org/mallman/ _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Feb 27 18:12:12 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02193 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:12:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Awr90-0002az-D9 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:11:46 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1RNBknF009971 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:11:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Awr90-0002aj-6z for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:11:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02152 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:11:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Awr8x-0005rI-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:11:43 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Awr83-0005lH-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:10:47 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Awr7K-0005fQ-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:10:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Awr7K-0001yC-H2; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:10:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Awr7G-0001ww-5W for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:09:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA01957 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:09:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Awr7D-0005ej-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:09:55 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Awr6H-0005Xd-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:08:58 -0500 Received: from louie.udel.edu ([128.4.40.12] helo=mail.eecis.udel.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Awr5h-0005Pt-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:08:21 -0500 Received: by mail.eecis.udel.edu (Postfix, from userid 62) id BF9BF32B96; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:08:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from stimpy.eecis.udel.edu (stimpy.eecis.udel.edu [128.4.40.17]) by mail.eecis.udel.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A6E32966; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:08:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:08:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Armando L. Caro Jr." X-X-Sender: acaro@stimpy.eecis.udel.edu To: tcpm@ietf.org Cc: Sourabh Ladha , "Paul D. Amer" In-Reply-To: <20040224040529.98F0210B40D@lawyers.icir.org> Message-ID: References: <20040224040529.98F0210B40D@lawyers.icir.org> X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: UDEL-ECECIS: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 MIME-Version: 1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: [tcpm] TCP consolidation doc Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Sourabh and I were thinking that it would be useful to have a document that consolidates all the TCP modifications into a single document. The roadmap is useful too, but someone who is implementing TCP from scratch would have a hard time piecing together all the TCP RFCs. Perhaps there could be an RFC which specifies the current standards track TCP. The RFC could also have an experimental section. What do others think? Armando & Sourabh 0-- --0 | Armando L. Caro Jr. | Protocol Engineering Lab | | www.armandocaro.net | University of Delaware | 0-- --0 _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Feb 27 18:26:07 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03117 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AwrMT-0004vd-AL for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:25:41 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1RNPfHo018939 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:25:41 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AwrMT-0004vO-12 for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:25:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03104 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:25:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AwrMQ-0007Cd-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:25:38 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AwrLV-00077U-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:24:41 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AwrKq-00072W-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:24:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AwrKq-0004s3-Sa; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:24:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AwrKV-0004qn-DS for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:23:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03052 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:23:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AwrKS-00071B-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:23:36 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AwrJZ-0006wZ-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:22:42 -0500 Received: from masaka.cs.ohiou.edu ([132.235.3.154]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AwrIi-0006mK-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:21:48 -0500 Received: from masaka.cs.ohiou.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by masaka.cs.ohiou.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i1RNLCSH013528; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:21:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from weddy@localhost) by masaka.cs.ohiou.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id i1RNLCs0013527; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:21:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:21:12 -0500 From: Wesley Eddy To: "Armando L. Caro Jr." Cc: tcpm@ietf.org, Sourabh Ladha , "Paul D. Amer" Subject: Re: [tcpm] TCP consolidation doc Message-ID: <20040227232112.GB5187@irg.cs.ohiou.edu> Reply-To: weddy@masaka.cs.ohiou.edu References: <20040224040529.98F0210B40D@lawyers.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-People-Whose-Mailers-Cant-See-This-Header-Are-Lame: true Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 06:08:00PM -0500, Armando L. Caro Jr. wrote: >=20 > Sourabh and I were thinking that it would be useful to have a document > that consolidates all the TCP modifications into a single document. The > roadmap is useful too, but someone who is implementing TCP from scratch > would have a hard time piecing together all the TCP RFCs. Perhaps there > could be an RFC which specifies the current standards track TCP. The RFC > could also have an experimental section. >=20 > What do others think? > I'd like to see not just a layout of the modifications but some additional emphasis on exactly which ones a tcp should include to be considered "moder= n" (SACK + DSACK with proper recovery, timestamps, WS, autotuning, etc). The relative importance amongst them might be useful too for people looking to incrementally hack on existing stacks that don't have them all. For instan= ce, do we want to make window scaling a more important feature than sack suppor= t. -Wes=20 --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (SunOS) iD8DBQFAP9DnzBuYqbnj3IwRAoPUAJ4oyiQfWg/KujOugmCujz3ft25DhQCeNsDH tjLeze7BF7tAjuYbvPnLWM8= =gtR+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50-- _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Feb 28 19:06:03 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA11555 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxESf-00040u-RD for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:05:38 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1T05bXY015420 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:05:37 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxESb-00040a-8o for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:05:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA11540 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:05:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxESX-0003YU-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:05:29 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxERd-0003TL-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:04:33 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxER6-0003Np-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:04:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxER6-0003ue-Px; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:04:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxEQB-0003sY-V4 for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:03:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA11432 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:02:58 -0500 (EST) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxEQ8-0003GL-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:03:00 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxEOv-00037A-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:01:45 -0500 Received: from mgw-x3.nokia.com ([131.228.20.26]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxEOE-0002yz-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:01:02 -0500 Received: from esdks001.ntc.nokia.com (esdks001.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.120]) by mgw-x3.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i1T00o728592; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:00:50 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:00:24 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.13 2004020314 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks001.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id i1T00OTY005413; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:00:24 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks001.ntc.nokia.com 00dGxHVn; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:00:22 EET Received: from esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh001.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.28]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i1T00MO18670; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:00:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from esebe023.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.115]) by esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:00:21 +0200 Subject: RE: [tcpm] TCP consolidation doc Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:00:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: [tcpm] TCP consolidation doc thread-index: AcP9iOOnjFgiYwN6RwK0E/ii99T2igAzfMvg Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message To: , Cc: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Feb 2004 00:00:22.0076 (UTC) FILETIME=[0679C7C0:01C3FE57] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wes, Tossing my 2 cents into the pot: > I'd like to see not just a layout of the modifications but some additional > emphasis on exactly which ones a tcp should include to be considered "modern" > (SACK + DSACK with proper recovery, timestamps, WS, autotuning, etc). The > relative importance amongst them might be useful too for people looking to > incrementally hack on existing stacks that don't have them all. For instance, > do we want to make window scaling a more important feature than sack support. I agree - I think this would be a good thing. Also, it would be useful to mark what is needed for interoperability and what is needed for 'modernity' ... John _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Feb 28 21:08:11 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA15914 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:08:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxGMp-0000yN-NX for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:07:44 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1T27hMW003733 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:07:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxGMo-0000xs-M6 for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:07:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA15906 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:07:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGMm-0000tk-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:07:40 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGLo-0000nJ-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:06:41 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGLC-0000hS-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:06:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxGLB-0000bq-Ry; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:06:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxGKk-0000at-RF for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:05:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA15856 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:05:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGKi-0000fR-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:05:32 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGJs-0000aS-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:04:40 -0500 Received: from mgw-x2.nokia.com ([131.228.20.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGJb-0000V1-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:04:23 -0500 Received: from esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (esdks003.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.158]) by mgw-x2.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i1T24JL20901; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:04:19 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:03:40 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.13 2004020314 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id i1T23eVq002581; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:03:40 +0200 Received: from mgw-int1.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.96) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com 00jk7gp9; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:03:38 EET Received: from esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh002.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.77]) by mgw-int1.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i1T23c720883; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:03:38 +0200 (EET) Received: from nokia.com ([10.162.12.228]) by esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:03:38 +0200 Message-ID: <40414878.6030806@nokia.com> Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:03:36 +0200 From: Pasi Sarolahti User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weddy@masaka.cs.ohiou.edu CC: "Armando L. Caro Jr." , tcpm@ietf.org, Sourabh Ladha , "Paul D. Amer" Subject: Re: [tcpm] TCP consolidation doc References: <20040224040529.98F0210B40D@lawyers.icir.org> <20040227232112.GB5187@irg.cs.ohiou.edu> In-Reply-To: <20040227232112.GB5187@irg.cs.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Feb 2004 02:03:38.0393 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F063090:01C3FE68] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, ext Wesley Eddy wrote: >>Sourabh and I were thinking that it would be useful to have a document >>that consolidates all the TCP modifications into a single document. > > I'd like to see not just a layout of the modifications but some additional > emphasis on exactly which ones a tcp should include to be considered "modern" > (SACK + DSACK with proper recovery, timestamps, WS, autotuning, etc). The > relative importance amongst them might be useful too for people looking to > incrementally hack on existing stacks that don't have them all. For instance, > do we want to make window scaling a more important feature than sack support. Agree. There should be a paragraph or so on each modification discussing its usefulness and purpose. However, I don't know how easy it is to build a definite list of recommended modern features with a specific importance level. Likely the importance depends on the angle of view. Some live in environment that would prefer WS more than SACK, some don't. Maybe there could also a section discussing implementation issues? (or is it a different doc?) Sometimes it seems that the biggest challenge is not the features current implementations have, but the bugs that may cause a useful TCP option to be counterproductive. - Pasi _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Feb 28 21:18:08 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16288 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:18:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxGWS-0001b2-T5 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:17:40 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i1T2He8Y006130 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:17:40 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxGWS-0001an-Ja for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:17:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16279 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGWQ-0001u9-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:17:38 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGVU-0001pB-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:16:41 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGUt-0001k2-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:16:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxGUq-0001WF-R1; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:16:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxGUP-0001V2-KW for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:15:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16241 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:15:30 -0500 (EST) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGUN-0001iX-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:15:31 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGTQ-0001cM-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:14:32 -0500 Received: from mgw-x2.nokia.com ([131.228.20.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxGSa-0001W1-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:13:40 -0500 Received: from esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (esdks003.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.158]) by mgw-x2.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i1T2DaL26392; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:13:36 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:12:06 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.13 2004020314 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id i1T2C6iO027402; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:12:06 +0200 Received: from mgw-int1.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.96) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com 00F9gf2i; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:12:04 EET Received: from esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh002.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.77]) by mgw-int1.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i1T2C4724891; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:12:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from esebe023.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.115]) by esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:12:02 +0200 Subject: RE: [tcpm] TCP consolidation doc Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:12:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: [tcpm] TCP consolidation doc Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message thread-index: AcP+aLyMH+uK0m4MR36YOAJ4rfaCygAADZ+w To: , Cc: , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Feb 2004 02:12:02.0219 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B53EFB0:01C3FE69] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pasi, > Agree. There should be a paragraph or so on each modification = discussing=20 > its usefulness and purpose. However, I don't know how easy it is to=20 > build a definite list of recommended modern features with a specific=20 > importance level. Likely the importance depends on the angle of view.=20 > Some live in environment that would prefer WS more than SACK,=20 > some don't. >=20 > Maybe there could also a section discussing implementation issues? (or = > is it a different doc?) Sometimes it seems that the biggest challenge = is=20 > not the features current implementations have, but the bugs that may=20 > cause a useful TCP option to be counterproductive. This sounds a bit like an applicability statement for the different = features, does it not? Anyhow, there's probably a couple of things still wound-up = in all of this. First off, there's the issue of what TCP implementations=20 support (i.e. - what does the code support) and then what circumstances=20 some of these features are useful. You could imagine that servers may = need to be able to support 'wireless' features because they may talk to = 'wireless' nodes even if the server themselves are not wireless. John _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Feb 29 23:35:55 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA01181 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axf9L-0007bT-6F for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:35:27 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i214ZRfc029221 for tcpm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:35:27 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axf9K-0007bE-VU for tcpm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:35:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA01139 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:35:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axf9J-0004f4-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:35:25 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Axf8T-0004aV-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:34:34 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axf7x-0004Up-00 for tcpm-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:34:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axf7w-0007Qx-LF; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:34:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axf7K-0007Ot-Rw for tcpm@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:33:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA00962 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:33:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axf7I-0004SD-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:33:20 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Axf6L-0004MR-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:32:22 -0500 Received: from adsl-68-76-113-50.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net ([68.76.113.50] helo=guns.icir.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axf5X-0004CN-00 for tcpm@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:31:31 -0500 Received: from lawyers.icir.org (adsl-68-76-113-50.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net [68.76.113.50]) by guns.icir.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F40177A703; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:31:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from lawyers.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lawyers.icir.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548FE10D09B; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:12:43 -0500 (EST) To: "Armando L. Caro Jr." From: Mark Allman Reply-To: mallman@icir.org Cc: tcpm@ietf.org, Sourabh Ladha , "Paul D. Amer" Subject: Re: [tcpm] TCP consolidation doc In-Reply-To: Organization: ICSI Center for Internet Research (ICIR) Song-of-the-Day: My City of Ruin Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:12:43 -0500 Message-Id: <20040301041243.548FE10D09B@lawyers.icir.org> Sender: tcpm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tcpm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Armando- > Sourabh and I were thinking that it would be useful to have a document > that consolidates all the TCP modifications into a single > document. The roadmap is useful too, but someone who is implementing > TCP from scratch would have a hard time piecing together all the TCP > RFCs. Perhaps there could be an RFC which specifies the current > standards track TCP. The RFC could also have an experimental section. > > What do others think? First, let me say that I agree that TCP stuff is just a tangled web of specs and could be really hard to pick through from scratch. In fact, I have had several conversations with people about a little piece of this. That is, rolling a bunch of the smaller changes into an rfc2581.bis. E.g., think of something like limited transmit or larger initial window. In the long run, these don't need their own documents because they are such minor changes. But, I like the longer document that really distills the thinking behind it. So, I think that you are right on in some cases. I find myself really wondering what a longer document would buy us. It'd be damn hard to write and agree on, I bet. And, it'd be cumbersome to change -- and, I think one lesson we have learned is that TCP is always evolving. So, especially if one puts experimental things into the document I think it'd be way hard to make that work. Think about this... say one wanted to include early retransmit and we have this mega-doc. Now we have to open up the document to put in this one change. But, while the document is open people want to throw other things in. Can they? Do we now have charter lines that say "open section X of The TCP Thome only"? It seems that if we get the roadmap right and so we can hand someone that and they can go off and look at other RFCs as appropriate then that should be a decent path. And, the roadmap seems light enough that it could be updated frequently. E.g., maybe a WG like this one could set a goal of reving it every year or two for updates. You say above that this proposed doc would be in addition to the roadmap. I'd like to hear why we'd need both? It seems to me if we have a mega-spec that would just obviate the need for a roadmap (i.e., the roadmap would be the table of contents). Thanks! allman (chair hat off) -- Mark Allman -- ICIR -- http://www.icir.org/mallman/ _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm