Subject: [Tools-discuss] Some oddities on IAB/IESG "WG pages"

From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:23:16 +0200 (EET)

Hi,

Some observations on IAB/IESG "WG pages":

http://www3.tools.ietf.org/group/iab/ lists only 
'draft-iab-dns-choices' under Active drafts, while draft-iab-ip-config 
and draft-iab-protocol-success are listed as Related drafts.  I'd 
expect all of them to be listed as active drafts.

Also, at least draft-iab-iwout-report is listed as Expired, even 
though those should be RFC published (RFC4948 in this case).

On http://www3.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/, it's not obvious why 
'draft-zinin-early-review' is listed as an IESG document.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
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---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:34:25 +0100

Hi Pekka,

> expect all of them to be listed as active drafts.

So would I.  However, the ietf database lists only the dns-choices
draft as belonging to the iab.  I don't know whether this should be
fixed by maintaining the database better, or by me using some
iab-specific heuristics rather than what's specified in the database
for these...

> though those should be RFC published (RFC4948 in this case).

Right.  Again, I'll point to the datatracker database being out of
date.  In this case, I do have alternative datasources to use; I'll
do a re-write to use the more direct source for this (i.e., publication
status).

> 'draft-zinin-early-review' is listed as an IESG document.

Well, right.  But guess what I'm going to say here ,;-) ...

That what the ietf database has it classified as ,,:-}

Suggestions for action/improvement?

	Henrik

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From: "Frank Ellermann" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:18:30 +0100

> Suggestions for action/improvement? 

Not directly related:

Please create a page <http://tools.ietf.org/group/>
(+/- trailing slash), at the moment it is empty.
Apparently there are three kinds of "groups", one
set are groups with a Wiki:

http://tools.ietf.org/group/iaoc
http://tools.ietf.org/group/trust
http://tools.ietf.org/group/wgchairs

Another set of groups are "not a WG" with drafts
etc. like an ordinary WG:

http://tools.ietf.org/group/iab
http://tools.ietf.org/group/iesg
http://tools.ietf.org/group/irtf
http://tools.ietf.org/group/tools

And NomCom is a directory listing of 05..07 etc.:

http://tools.ietf.org/group/nomcom/

A simple solution is to enable the same script
used for .../group/nomcom also for .../group
I found no "edu" below "group", is that as it
should be ?

 Frank

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:14:45 +1300

> That what the ietf database has it classified as ,,:-}

That was correct at the time (and the time was quite
some years ago). The General AD should decide whether to
change it, since the document has faded away.

    Brian

---

From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 09:33:25 +0200 (EET)

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> Also, at least draft-iab-iwout-report is listed as Expired, even though 
>> those should be RFC published (RFC4948 in this case).
>

This seems to be due to the datatracker/database bug that affected a 
couple of other documents as well (e.g., that's the reason why 
'draft-iab-dns-choices moved to Dead and its state is still Dead even 
though it's in IAB's version of Last Call).  I recall discussing this 
with Bill Fenner but can't find it in my mail archive.  The problem is 
that when some documents were expired (some of them erroneously), the 
datatracker moved them from whatever state they were at (the 
dns-choices having been 'AD is watching') to Dead.

I'd guess this issue is related.  Those documents which were expired 
in this fashion and moved to Dead have fallen through the cracks in 
their status has not been updated.

> Suggestions for action/improvement?

I wonder what IETF database you're talking about?  The public 
datatracker does not know anything about draft-zinin-early-review.
Is the information obtained from some other database or why doesn't it 
show on the public datatracker?

With regard to the two IAB documents, until a document moves out of 
the "I-D exists" state, it appears it cannot be associated with WG or 
group context.

As an improvement, I would consider WG documents all those documents 
which have draft-ietf-<wg> or draft-{iab,iesg} naming and additionally 
those which are specifically marked as a WG/group document in the 
tracker.

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:02:17 +0100

Hi Pekka,

> dns-choices having been 'AD is watching') to Dead.

Ok.  The database needs correcting, anyway.

> show on the public datatracker?

The IETF database has a bit more data than what is shown in the public
datatracker; not, I believe, in order to hide anything, but simply as
a result of the design choices done for the interface (which could do
with a rewrite).

In other words, there's just one database, and that is the one which
holds both the information exposed through the public datatracker, and
through the IESG interface, and also used to generate various files
such as all_it.txt, 1id-index.txt, etc., and e.g. the meeting materials
pages.

> the "I-D exists" state, it appears it cannot be associated with WG or 

I believe that's incorrect -- see for instance this file, generated
from the database:

  http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/1id-index.txt

> those which are specifically marked as a WG/group document in the 

That would be a step backwards.  Before I started parsing the 1id-index.txt,
I had a lot more documents which had the wrong state (shown as WG docs,
but weren't really or weren't any more), because I used the heuristics you
suggest...

Regards,

	Henrik

---

From: "Bill Fenner" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:54:41 -0400

>  datatracker does not know anything about draft-zinin-early-review.

You can see this database in action at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-zinin-early-review/ .

"IETF Working Group: Internet Engineering Steering Group" is a little
odd but gets the point across.

>  the "I-D exists" state, it appears it cannot be associated with WG or

That's not the case - there are many, many working group drafts in "I-D exists".

>  those which are specifically marked as a WG/group document in the

The IESG as a policy started moving away from allowing documents that
violate these assumptions (e.g., the policy became "resubmit the
document with a new name" instead of "change the field in the database
for the old document"), but there are still exceptions.

  Bill