From jari.arkko@ericsson.com Fri May 14 07:26:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A493A698B; Fri, 14 May 2010 07:26:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.153 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.153 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.154, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q6dlyFTXUsSs; Fri, 14 May 2010 07:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw9.se.ericsson.net (mailgw9.se.ericsson.net [193.180.251.57]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5C33A6B4E; Fri, 14 May 2010 07:22:40 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb39-b7c85ae000005565-96-4bed5ca6f9f3 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw9.se.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 50.99.21861.6AC5DEB4; Fri, 14 May 2010 16:22:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.172]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 14 May 2010 16:22:30 +0200 Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.50]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 14 May 2010 16:22:29 +0200 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.33.3]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C91E2560; Fri, 14 May 2010 17:22:29 +0300 (EEST) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D63F4F6FB; Fri, 14 May 2010 17:22:29 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 065024EC77; Fri, 14 May 2010 17:22:28 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4BED5CA2.50707@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 17:22:26 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20100411) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS discussion , IESG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2010 14:22:29.0839 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2AD85F0:01CAF370] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: [Tools-discuss] IESG measurements tools, IETF status Facebook application X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:26:32 -0000 By the way, I have now updated the IESG measurement tools (http://www.arkko.com/tools/admeasurements/stat/base.html). They were broken when the web interface changed, as they had been based on screen scraping HTML output from the IETF website. The update moves most of this scraping to the use of the new all_id2.txt and other machine readable interfaces. The data looks valid, but if you spot any errors (other than those were the reality and tracker do not agree -- thats not something I can do anything about), let me know. The update also means that the facebook IETF status application (http://apps.facebook.com/ietfstatus/) and the IETF dashboard (http://www.arkko.com/tools/dashboard/index.php?firstname=jari&lastname=arkko) is no longer stuck on old information. Jari From rjsparks@nostrum.com Fri May 14 08:44:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 673453A6B4E for ; Fri, 14 May 2010 08:44:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.750, BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y+Tvrl-8gJkk for ; Fri, 14 May 2010 08:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A733A69D2 for ; Fri, 14 May 2010 08:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.105] (pool-173-71-46-227.dllstx.fios.verizon.net [173.71.46.227]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4EFiMxw036022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 May 2010 10:44:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) From: Robert Sparks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-49--808081006 Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 10:44:22 -0500 References: <4BE037E8.1090602@ietf.org> To: Tools Discuss Message-Id: <3C3BB25E-42D6-44E2-A0A7-D79FA05F0EEB@nostrum.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 173.71.46.227 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: Maastricht IETF Codesprint X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 15:44:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail-49--808081006 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you are planning to help improve the IETF tools, please sign up for the codesprint in Maastricht. If you can't attend, but have an idea for a new tool or an improvement to an existing tool, please make sure it's captured at RjS Begin forwarded message: > From: IETF Chair > Date: May 4, 2010 10:06:16 AM CDT > To: IETF Announcement list > Cc: 78all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org > Subject: Maastricht IETF Codesprint > Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org > > Maastricht IETF Codesprint > > When: 24 July 2010 beginning at 9:30 AM > > Where: IETF Hotel > > What: A bunch of hackers get together to work on code for the IETF. > Some people may be preparing for the transition to a new > database schema; some people may be preparing for the > upcoming extensions to support working groups; some people > may be adding exciting new functionality. All code will > become part of the open source IETF tools. > > How: See http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETFSprintHowto > > Who: Hopefully you can help > > Many of the results of previous codesprint activities are being > used every day by the IETF community. Steve Conte will be helping > with advance planning. Henrik Levkowetz will be coordinating the > event in Maastricht. More information is available at: > > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF78Sprint > > If you are able to participate, please sign up on the wiki at: > > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF78SprintSignUp > > Please support the tools development effort, > Russ > > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce --Apple-Mail-49--808081006 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii If = you are planning to help improve the IETF tools, please sign up for = the
codesprint in Maastricht.

If you can't = attend, but have an idea for a new tool or an improvement = to
an existing tool, please make sure it's captured = at

RjS

Begin forwarded message:

From: IETF Chair <chair@ietf.org>
Date: May 4, 2010 = 10:06:16 AM CDT
To: IETF Announcement list <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
<= /span>
Subject: Maastricht IETF = Codesprint
Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org

M= aastricht IETF Codesprint

When:  24 July 2010 beginning at = 9:30 AM

Where: IETF Hotel

What:  A bunch of hackers = get together to work on code for the IETF.
=      Some people may be preparing for the = transition to a new
     database schema; = some people may be preparing for the
=      upcoming extensions to support working = groups; some people
     may be adding = exciting new functionality.  All code will
=      become part of the open source IETF = tools.

How:   See http://to= ols.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETFSprintHowto

Who: =   Hopefully you can help

Many of the results of = previous codesprint activities are being
used every day by the IETF = community.  Steve Conte will be helping
with advance planning. =  Henrik Levkowetz will be coordinating the
event in Maastricht. =  More information is available at:

http://= trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF78Sprint

If you are = able to participate, please sign up on the wiki at:

h= ttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF78SprintSignUp

= Please support the tools development effort,
=  Russ


_______________________________________________
I= ETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https= ://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

= --Apple-Mail-49--808081006-- From mnot@mnot.net Wed May 19 04:19:35 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3ED328C11E for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:19:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.415 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.415 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.305, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XUt-ydoaxGQ7 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583613A6C07 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.15] (unknown [118.209.66.143]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 68D2C509DD for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 07:16:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Nottingham Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 21:15:58 +1000 Message-Id: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> To: IETF TOOLS discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) Subject: [Tools-discuss] tools/html -> datatracker/doc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:19:36 -0000 Is there any reason we aren't redirecting URLs of the form http://tools.ietf.org/html/{draft-name}{draft-revision} to http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/{draft-name} ? (where draft-revision is optional, of course). Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From julian.reschke@gmx.de Wed May 19 04:34:52 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8254D3A6C3F for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:34:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.76 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.76 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.761, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q2A0W4mbWCSj for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A02528C123 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 May 2010 11:30:55 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.116]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp027) with SMTP; 19 May 2010 13:30:55 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/ZG6sM2tvZdxC6e34lA/IZQXHRrpbLzQlGsRwGgn fy7OqnDRsDXSpU Message-ID: <4BF3CBE8.8080103@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 13:30:48 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham References: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools/html -> datatracker/doc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:34:52 -0000 On 19.05.2010 13:15, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Is there any reason we aren't redirecting URLs of the form > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/{draft-name}{draft-revision} > > to > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/{draft-name} > > ? > > (where draft-revision is optional, of course). I don't think the datatracker URI is very useful for *reading* IDs -- for instance, it misses lots of features tools.ietf.org has (CSS print support, link highlighting), and it also has lots of information that only becomes relevant very late in the process. Best regards, Julian From mnot@mnot.net Wed May 19 04:36:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2B73A6C94 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:36:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.904 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.904 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.305, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SAqvWLikLaSN for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C815E3A696F for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.15] (unknown [118.209.66.143]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56736509B4; Wed, 19 May 2010 07:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <4BF3CBE8.8080103@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 21:32:32 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <14C63BDE-B37F-4336-BCBF-81B61CE698A6@mnot.net> References: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> <4BF3CBE8.8080103@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) Cc: IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools/html -> datatracker/doc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:36:03 -0000 Can't we port those features to datatracker? Having so many URLs* for the same bit of information is pointless, and = more importantly it confuses newcomers. Cheers, * I didn't even mention = http://www.ietf.org/id/{draft-name}{draft-version} On 19/05/2010, at 9:30 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 19.05.2010 13:15, Mark Nottingham wrote: >> Is there any reason we aren't redirecting URLs of the form >>=20 >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/{draft-name}{draft-revision} >>=20 >> to >>=20 >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/{draft-name} >>=20 >> ? >>=20 >> (where draft-revision is optional, of course). >=20 > I don't think the datatracker URI is very useful for *reading* IDs -- = for instance, it misses lots of features tools.ietf.org has (CSS print = support, link highlighting), and it also has lots of information that = only becomes relevant very late in the process. >=20 > Best regards, Julian -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From julian.reschke@gmx.de Wed May 19 04:46:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562823A6BBC for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:46:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.713 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.713 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.714, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A8Rs85wH3HUk for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E08283A6940 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 May 2010 11:46:26 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.116]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp072) with SMTP; 19 May 2010 13:46:26 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18feaBPGSIfwdw+wbW/fPsLUooKwIyWd7erPoePjz iNIRXMjHDGC3O2 Message-ID: <4BF3CF85.10701@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 13:46:13 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham References: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> <4BF3CBE8.8080103@gmx.de> <14C63BDE-B37F-4336-BCBF-81B61CE698A6@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <14C63BDE-B37F-4336-BCBF-81B61CE698A6@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools/html -> datatracker/doc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:46:55 -0000 On 19.05.2010 13:32, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Can't we port those features to datatracker? > > Having so many URLs* for the same bit of information is pointless, and more importantly it confuses newcomers. > > Cheers, I think one important difference is that the documents on tools.ietf.org are generated (and re-generated) on demand, but then served from static files. Anything else would likely become a problem (with, for instance, Wikipedia linking to these URIs). Best regards, Julian From mnot@mnot.net Wed May 19 04:48:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C593D3A6862 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:48:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.866, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LluOWzCGMTg0 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317E43A6940 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.15] (unknown [118.209.66.143]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 623F6509B4; Wed, 19 May 2010 07:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <4BF3CF85.10701@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 21:47:30 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <89994060-65B6-40D1-8524-4C8EC4D7A5AB@mnot.net> References: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> <4BF3CBE8.8080103@gmx.de> <14C63BDE-B37F-4336-BCBF-81B61CE698A6@mnot.net> <4BF3CF85.10701@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) Cc: IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools/html -> datatracker/doc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:48:05 -0000 You've lost me. If it's a performance problem, that can be fixed. If = it's a 404 issue, we can redirect to the datatracker URLs. What am I = missing? Cheers, On 19/05/2010, at 9:46 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 19.05.2010 13:32, Mark Nottingham wrote: >> Can't we port those features to datatracker? >>=20 >> Having so many URLs* for the same bit of information is pointless, = and more importantly it confuses newcomers. >>=20 >> Cheers, >=20 > I think one important difference is that the documents on = tools.ietf.org are generated (and re-generated) on demand, but then = served from static files. Anything else would likely become a problem = (with, for instance, Wikipedia linking to these URIs). >=20 > Best regards, Julian -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From julian.reschke@gmx.de Wed May 19 04:56:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C87763A6C56 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:56:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.224 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.224 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.114, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FQ3Ex2Wt5bVU for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2966528C0CE for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 May 2010 11:56:10 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.116]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp011) with SMTP; 19 May 2010 13:56:10 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/1O8wVAZ/13zD9R3ZOir3gJnI5CVNLiaqCP7QIKB i7jCojI/kn+YPb Message-ID: <4BF3D1CE.7000505@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 13:55:58 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham References: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> <4BF3CBE8.8080103@gmx.de> <14C63BDE-B37F-4336-BCBF-81B61CE698A6@mnot.net> <4BF3CF85.10701@gmx.de> <89994060-65B6-40D1-8524-4C8EC4D7A5AB@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <89994060-65B6-40D1-8524-4C8EC4D7A5AB@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools/html -> datatracker/doc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:56:50 -0000 On 19.05.2010 13:47, Mark Nottingham wrote: > You've lost me. If it's a performance problem, that can be fixed. If it's a 404 issue, we can redirect to the datatracker URLs. What am I missing? > ... It *could* be fixed. But it might be a lot of work. I really don't see a problem that needs to be solved. Reading IDs for WG chairs, authors, and IESG members has different requirements than for most other people. Not sure why they need the same URI. Best regards, Julian From mnot@mnot.net Wed May 19 04:59:42 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639313A6898 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:59:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.218, BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 49c3D5dk7u+f for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F373A687B for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 04:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.15] (unknown [118.209.66.143]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D99F3509E0; Wed, 19 May 2010 07:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <4BF3D1CE.7000505@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 21:59:29 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> <4BF3CBE8.8080103@gmx.de> <14C63BDE-B37F-4336-BCBF-81B61CE698A6@mnot.net> <4BF3CF85.10701@gmx.de> <89994060-65B6-40D1-8524-4C8EC4D7A5AB@mnot.net> <4BF3D1CE.7000505@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) Cc: IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools/html -> datatracker/doc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:59:42 -0000 Adding some print css, a redirect rule and a reverse proxy is a lot of = work? *shrug* I agree it's not a problem for people who are used to it and the IETF. = For the rest of the population of the planet, it's very odd and = confusing to see slightly different versions of documents floating = around, with different capabilities, all available at slightly different = times.=20 On 19/05/2010, at 9:55 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 19.05.2010 13:47, Mark Nottingham wrote: >> You've lost me. If it's a performance problem, that can be fixed. If = it's a 404 issue, we can redirect to the datatracker URLs. What am I = missing? >> ... >=20 > It *could* be fixed. But it might be a lot of work. >=20 > I really don't see a problem that needs to be solved. Reading IDs for = WG chairs, authors, and IESG members has different requirements than for = most other people. Not sure why they need the same URI. >=20 > Best regards, Julian -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From spencer@wonderhamster.org Wed May 19 05:42:10 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3AF3A6B65 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 05:42:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.261 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.261 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.263, BAYES_50=0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hwDgdXMM3K6c for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 05:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0395B3A6B24 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 05:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from S73602b (cpe-76-182-230-135.tx.res.rr.com [76.182.230.135]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MUpds-1Nn9jQ2MPc-00Z34a; Wed, 19 May 2010 08:41:56 -0400 Message-ID: <40A3C2A156364E32AF270070928A6C87@china.huawei.com> From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "Mark Nottingham" , "Julian Reschke" References: <11AB8C5B-F1AE-4ECE-9EF3-E02814CE8C5F@mnot.net> <4BF3CBE8.8080103@gmx.de><14C63BDE-B37F-4336-BCBF-81B61CE698A6@mnot.net><4BF3CF85.10701@gmx.de><89994060-65B6-40D1-8524-4C8EC4D7A5AB@mnot.net><4BF3D1CE.7000505@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 07:41:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18cd6Yn340iSu3Ho72Q+nnhYxooUocO+pc7dNI ko6vH958jjgvUm71VEsbT0McCXY20ARB3f877cwONH334DUaC9 Dk+dHlYAks5lulAf08DQqELdBOgGlqCnOSGJBgEVjE= Cc: IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools/html -> datatracker/doc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 12:42:10 -0000 For what it's worth ... > I agree it's not a problem for people who are used to it and the IETF. For > the rest of the population of the planet, it's very odd and confusing to > see slightly different versions of documents floating around, with > different capabilities, all available at slightly different times. I would agree with Mark that the current situation doesn't make it EASIER for part-time participants to figure out how things work ... sure, that's not a problem for me, but I do the IETF full time, and we keep saying we want more interaction with implementers and less dependence on full-time standards guys, right? Thanks, Spencer