Subject: [Tools-discuss] non-specific version of htmlish internet-drafts

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2020 12:51:47 -0400

If I want to point at the most recently HTML-ized draft on tools, I can use:
e.g:  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-friel-anima-brski-cloud

When I look at the datatracker page for the doc, I see a URL:
      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-friel-anima-brski-cloud-02
I also see:
      https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-friel-anima-brski-cloud-02.html

I tried:
      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-friel-anima-brski-cloud
and it works, but I'm not sure if it's officially supposed to work.

And if so, is there a reason the DT page doesn't give this link?
Should I prefer www.ietf.org/id/ or datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html ?

Okay, I just realized that the DT is *htmlized* text.
This presentation is much harder to read than the tools htmlization, because
doesn't fill as much of the screen by default, and you have CTRL+ to make
more readable.  BUT, the htmlized versions each point at the other versions,
and a version-less link works.

The pure-HTML version on www.ietf.org is way better for reading, and while I
appreciate the table of contents on the right (unless my screen is too
narrow), I miss having the ToC inline as well.
Anyone have some greasemonkey to "undo" this bit of css?

I feel that maybe www.ietf.org/id/ is a better (lower load on python code) link to
be spreading around places, but maybe it is irrelevant.  Or maybe there is a
SEO benefit to using www.ietf.org?

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

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From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 12:23:59 -0700

Michael,

> On Sep 3, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Michael Richardson <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Signed PGP part
> 

I much prefer the html version with an inline TOC and have gotten to dislike the TOC on the right mode.  I don’t find it helpful at all.

> Anyone have some greasemonkey to "undo" this bit of css?

I would like to be able to turn off the TOC on the right too!

Bob

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From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2020 20:55:50 -0400

> I much prefer the html version with an inline TOC and have gotten to
    > dislike the TOC on the right mode.  I don’t find it helpful at all.

I also prefer it in general.

I use the down-arrow to scroll, and it usually winds up scrolling the TOC and
then I have to click somewhere else.  I can't imagine how it works on a
tablet in landscape mode.

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide

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From: "Martin Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2020 20:13:29 +1000

> I would like to be able to turn off the TOC on the right too!

Would you find something that dropped the TOC inline when the screen was narrower helpful?  See this old draft rendering for that: https://martinthomson.github.io/quic-tls/

That style change is fairly easy to manage if that is what you might prefer.

---

From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 6 Sep 2020 18:51:56 -0000

In article <[email-masked]>,
>I would like to be able to turn off the TOC on the right too!

If you make your window narrower, the TOC disappears into a pulldown tab in the top corner.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, [email-masked], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2020 12:07:30 -0700

John,

> On Sep 6, 2020, at 11:51 AM, John Levine <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

I was aware of that.   I would still like to only have an inline TOC and nothing on the right.

Bob

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---

From: Tom Pusateri <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2020 15:28:48 -0400

> On Sep 6, 2020, at 3:07 PM, Bob Hinden <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> John,
> 

I was always frustrated with the HTMLized version of drafts in the past because there was so much potential to have better indexing, internal and external referencing, better fonts, readability, etc.

I think the new HTML v3 stuff is a great step in the right direction. It may still need some tweaks but, overall, I’m encouraged.

Can you guys give some specific examples of things besides the TOC that need improved?

Thanks,
Tom

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From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2020 18:00:44 -0400

Tom Pusateri <pusateri=[email-masked]> wrote:
    someone> If you make your window narrower, the TOC disappears into a
    someone> pulldown tab in the top corner.

    bob> I was aware of that.   I would still like to only have an inline TOC
    bob> and nothing on the right.

yes, but then, my *tab* is smaller, and since it's part of a group, the rest
are too, and while I can break it off, I don't really want to.
I often also rotate a small device to landscape so that I can have full
sentences and use a auto-scroll plugin.

    > I was always frustrated with the HTMLized version of drafts in the past
    > because there was so much potential to have better indexing, internal
    > and external referencing, better fonts, readability, etc.

Agreed.

    > I think the new HTML v3 stuff is a great step in the right
    > direction. It may still need some tweaks but, overall, I’m encouraged.

    > Can you guys give some specific examples of things besides the TOC that need improved?

I saw recently that hovering over a reference shows you the details.
That's very cool.
I wish I could do that with all the TLAs, both as defined in the document
itself, and in the RFC-editor list.  Even better if they could be in an
associated document.  The DRIP documents important a dozen confusing TLAs
from the aviation space... that's hard.

But, I don't want too much hovering, and I might want to turn it all off.
It is not the same on a touch screen, and it's a fail if it's a bit drizzly
if you are, reading drafts while at the bus stop.