From nobody Mon Feb 1 09:18:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 244DB3A1319 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 09:18:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ebS1XMJXyObG for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 09:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E30D3A1316 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 09:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 111HIlRi009328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 12:18:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 09:18:46 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 17:18:55 -0000 For the past few weeks I've been seeing very long page load times (ca. 90 seconds) for many or most htmlized drafts that I try to load from tools.ietf.org. Subsequent loads are the expected (fast) speed, and anecdotally it is possible for another user to "prime the cache" and spare me the long wait. I recognize that tools is a volunteer provided service and am willing to take this as a prod to move to the datatracker-hosted version, but I wanted to ask if others are seeing this and/or it's a known issue. Thanks, Ben From nobody Mon Feb 1 15:11:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6573A157D for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 15:11:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qlGdw4ih5Hm9 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 15:11:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18CEE3A157B for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 15:11:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 111NBnTj077155 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Feb 2021 17:11:50 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612221110; bh=sZKWYesmNqKRfrKivNYB3Ic+xnQwGZKEFkiGf4s8kBc=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=nF7F5siiZa7ZKTRIQz3+b6ACN9L1TMT9m+5eaM5de2YiDMLjDl1fmr5yrcDqDRGB9 5CAUBC6ECO18WMoarZJ+UWGY3nHwAaoANVYwc+0pghgspAvGbf8BD3EEpX3w1RVkWo pmX3AKoik9QqW59ohTPzFZHInmQw76rRB/bq91jQ= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Martin Thomson , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <8a0a01e0-361e-4432-a3f0-6bbcb1ea2564@www.fastmail.com> <1923540a-850a-97a6-1b09-478931cb7f75@nostrum.com> <3d7bdb60-6562-4926-a4bc-05304cbac046@www.fastmail.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 17:11:44 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3d7bdb60-6562-4926-a4bc-05304cbac046@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] DOIs 10.1145/* are all failing X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 23:11:56 -0000 These should be working now. RjS On 1/28/21 8:45 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > Thanks Robert. > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2021, at 13:38, Robert Sparks wrote: >> Hi Martin - >> >> The machine that had been serving bibxml  and the online xml2rfc >> converter (a volunteer run system, primarily sustained through the >> efforts of Henrik and Tony Hansen) suffered an unrecoverable error. >> >> It is being replaced. There are some issues getting the software that >> generates bibxml7 in particular back online - Tony is working it, and it >> should be back soon. >> >> We are already on a path to build a new version of the online xml2rfc >> and bibxml services that can run more redundantly. >> >> RjS >> >> On 1/28/21 6:46 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: >>> We've been using DOI-based references via bibxml7 on tools.ietf.org for QUIC. We have a bunch of these that refer to DOIs under 10.1145 (which I believe is ACM). Tools has been returning 404 on these DOIs for a few days now. >>> >>> Is there something that can be done about this? It's not a good situation. I don't really want to inline these references, but I'm about to do that, because the current state is making it difficult to make progress. >>> >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >>> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org >>> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >>> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: >> datatracker-project@ietf.org >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Mon Feb 1 16:00:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9277C3A15D1 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:00:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Opiqyk6k9CYf for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:00:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 457523A15CC for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:00:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DV4gk3bttzyjq; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 01:00:02 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 01:00:02 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 633916802.033547-f66d4bd0f68cf05252acbf78423e400d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> To: Benjamin Kaduk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 00:00:08 -0000 On 2021-02-01, at 18:18, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >=20 > For the past few weeks I've been seeing very long page load times (ca. = 90 > seconds) for many or most htmlized drafts that I try to load from > tools.ietf.org. =20 You are not the only one seeing this. > Subsequent loads are the expected (fast) speed, and > anecdotally it is possible for another user to "prime the cache" and = spare > me the long wait. I=E2=80=99m not seeing this, though =E2=80=94 I see the browser cache, = but then doing a curl on the same URI again takes a long time (real = 1m16.825s), as does another curl, but then a third delivers in a second, = and a fourth takes 1m16.516s. (Maybe I just got three different = servers, though.) The long delays are consistent enough that it looks like they are = programmed. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Feb 1 16:08:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413273A15D9 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:08:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J9iuLUwEYXPt for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D52973A15DA for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:08:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 11208WZw028534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:08:37 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:08:32 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Carsten Bormann Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210202000832.GI21@kduck.mit.edu> References: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 00:08:41 -0000 On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 01:00:02AM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-02-01, at 18:18, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > > > > For the past few weeks I've been seeing very long page load times (ca. 90 > > seconds) for many or most htmlized drafts that I try to load from > > tools.ietf.org. > > You are not the only one seeing this. Thanks for confirming. To elucidate a bit more on my remark about the datatracker-hosted version, I believe that translating https://tools.ietf.org/html/ to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/ will provide a similar, albeit less familiar, experience without the loading delay. > > Subsequent loads are the expected (fast) speed, and > > anecdotally it is possible for another user to "prime the cache" and spare > > me the long wait. > > I’m not seeing this, though — I see the browser cache, but then doing a curl on the same URI again takes a long time (real 1m16.825s), as does another curl, but then a third delivers in a second, and a fourth takes 1m16.516s. (Maybe I just got three different servers, though.) > > The long delays are consistent enough that it looks like they are programmed. It is possible that some of what I'm seeing is browser cache. But I definitely did not have draft-ietf-masque-ip-proxy-reqs in cache when I asked my friend to load an arbitrary draft, and it loaded quickly for both him and then shortly thereafter for me as well. -Ben From nobody Mon Feb 1 16:09:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044393A15DC for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:09:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=Z8JT6fGX; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ahKyFTBv Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NBG46AMMnLiR for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7696A3A15DA for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D731B5C00E8 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:09:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap10 ([10.202.2.60]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 01 Feb 2021 19:09:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh=U0ytz R0eLu4/hcTXTh4ypA6NgwZujTwDdBVhO4huFao=; b=Z8JT6fGXwd1M8PZCP6vRc C5WhKjqw14rkToeT2K+nsm5Bq9v1JfOgoku2YDy+yZlWxmKmMESYBO4Oe5BQ7CAq NMDbuIAimf+2lTUHj27O81s6QamdBywE/ObuFTQhZ4eZNQupHg3vxU8DYvduNEK/ 480dou8bRMXnTNK0F2B7xJQAsIjSeVAt4sSlqSyEUZxQR7hsDQ5KGG5lMlwBLQTD /1LfRrYOUOTcaR7R8mppKK4SVldGRA32Hu6/+0arfnFZkpUgdYYFor8GdZykGm1a MZ1Rt8qf3+7QusaTPxPJxGtVgwFIeeWzspF8JtCDzq/czmFcy49EiWjszBUx7PLh A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=U0ytzR0eLu4/hcTXTh4ypA6NgwZujTwDdBVhO4huF ao=; b=ahKyFTBvZt1wNymFTRRTTgsWyP4RUhQVCr48db48kVUzIHuo7ZAlMekAe BbeQFLg5xsPGYM2w3AaIod2jgd1dv9l8D4KXjqQTxRw67sKGLJs2h7/RRRl5Qbbh wrtTP3i2Utc3eA7IXDfO5dXXNjzunu4zANM4gFOYRR8GWAmH2xRvks6+32WYYH1n rdqvC0B+c9HqMDmJwMpMxu+uOfRRmx42mDzc1/ljT4zYEktPSYlEJ7ORImqxyppM fOSdUg0ADP90yyvSxxVGZCeN6SShCihr0SrdGtG5z6ocih2FGaqgrt0VPs3+jU3g AmJzL6l+lWlXnEXFyLQS1C7FRPKjg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrfeelgdduvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqh ertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhho figvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeevvdeiieelfffggfduud evleeufefgiedvkeekvdfhvdfhuefhhedttdduledvleenucffohhmrghinhepohhrghdr hihouhdpihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpe hmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhtsehlohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id B5D7D4E0081; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:09:02 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-93-gef6c4048e6-fm-20210128.002-gef6c4048 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <62549797-49a6-4b8f-9bd2-e6a23826a1ba@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 11:08:43 +1100 From: "Martin Thomson" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 00:09:06 -0000 I'm seeing similarly slow results, but in the order of 35s. A great dea= l of time (32 seconds, I think) goes by before the response begins, then= it is reasonably fast getting the content. Some brief investigation sh= ows that the TLS handshake is taking extra time (my TLS client times out= ), so maybe that explains what you are both seeing. On Tue, Feb 2, 2021, at 11:00, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-02-01, at 18:18, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > >=20 > > For the past few weeks I've been seeing very long page load times (c= a. 90 > > seconds) for many or most htmlized drafts that I try to load from > > tools.ietf.org. =20 >=20 > You are not the only one seeing this. >=20 > > Subsequent loads are the expected (fast) speed, and > > anecdotally it is possible for another user to "prime the cache" and= spare > > me the long wait. >=20 > I=E2=80=99m not seeing this, though =E2=80=94 I see the browser cache,= but then doing a=20 > curl on the same URI again takes a long time (real 1m16.825s), as does= =20 > another curl, but then a third delivers in a second, and a fourth take= s=20 > 1m16.516s. (Maybe I just got three different servers, though.) >=20 > The long delays are consistent enough that it looks like they are prog= rammed. >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to:=20 > datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe):=20 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > From nobody Mon Feb 1 16:21:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADB83A15F3 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:21:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2TiAqp8-t2dH for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B7133A15F2 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DV58c3bhmzyjq; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 01:21:36 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <62549797-49a6-4b8f-9bd2-e6a23826a1ba@www.fastmail.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 01:21:37 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 633918097.7756799-801ac9399fc3c6d780eb1dcadeeb103f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> <62549797-49a6-4b8f-9bd2-e6a23826a1ba@www.fastmail.com> To: Martin Thomson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 00:21:44 -0000 Oh. I looked more closely: time curl -vI = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-liu-dyncast-ps-usecases-00 * Trying 4.31.198.61... * TCP_NODELAY set (Here is the long delay!) * Connection failed * connect to 4.31.198.61 port 443 failed: Operation timed out * Trying 4.31.198.62... * TCP_NODELAY set * Connected to tools.ietf.org (4.31.198.62) port 443 (#0) * ALPN, offering h2 * ALPN, offering http/1.1 * successfully set certificate verify locations: [=E2=80=A6] $ host tools.ietf.org tools.ietf.org has address 4.31.198.62 tools.ietf.org has address 64.170.98.42 tools.ietf.org has address 4.31.198.61 [=E2=80=A6] Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Feb 1 16:30:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19F73A15F4 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:30:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jru68NoWP4YF; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 537B23A15EA; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:30:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: <1D7DD0E0-F138-4285-9D6C-7ED8E3F386B9@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_84D0C700-5B85-43CB-B391-2331AC36994B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 13:30:23 +1300 In-Reply-To: Cc: Martin Thomson , tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Carsten Bormann References: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> <62549797-49a6-4b8f-9bd2-e6a23826a1ba@www.fastmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 00:30:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_84D0C700-5B85-43CB-B391-2331AC36994B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Apologies for this. AFAIK one of the tools servers, 4.31.198.61, had = died and cannot be restarted and it has not been removed from the DNS. = I have asked for it to be removed. For info, the tools.ietf.org servers are = donated boxes under Henrik=E2=80=99s admin control and located in the = AMS office. Clearly, all production services need to move off them. Jay > On 2/02/2021, at 1:21 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Oh. I looked more closely: >=20 > time curl -vI = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-liu-dyncast-ps-usecases-00 > * Trying 4.31.198.61... > * TCP_NODELAY set >=20 > (Here is the long delay!) >=20 > * Connection failed > * connect to 4.31.198.61 port 443 failed: Operation timed out > * Trying 4.31.198.62... > * TCP_NODELAY set > * Connected to tools.ietf.org (4.31.198.62) port 443 (#0) > * ALPN, offering h2 > * ALPN, offering http/1.1 > * successfully set certificate verify locations: > [=E2=80=A6] >=20 > $ host tools.ietf.org > tools.ietf.org has address 4.31.198.62 > tools.ietf.org has address 64.170.98.42 > tools.ietf.org has address 4.31.198.61 > [=E2=80=A6] >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_84D0C700-5B85-43CB-B391-2331AC36994B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Apologies for this.  AFAIK one of the tools = servers, 4.31.198.61, had died and cannot be restarted and it has = not been removed from the DNS.  I have asked for it to be = removed.

For info, = the tools.ietf.org servers are donated boxes under = Henrik=E2=80=99s admin control and located in the AMS office. =  Clearly, all production services need to move off them.

Jay
On = 2/02/2021, at 1:21 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

Oh. =  I looked more closely:

time curl -vI = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-liu-dyncast-ps-usecases-00
*   Trying 4.31.198.61...
* = TCP_NODELAY set

(Here is the long = delay!)

* Connection failed
* = connect to 4.31.198.61 port 443 failed: Operation timed out
*   Trying 4.31.198.62...
* = TCP_NODELAY set
* Connected to tools.ietf.org = (4.31.198.62) port 443 (#0)
* ALPN, offering h2
* ALPN, offering http/1.1
* successfully set = certificate verify locations:
[=E2=80=A6]

$ host tools.ietf.org
tools.ietf.org has address = 4.31.198.62
tools.ietf.org has address 64.170.98.42
tools.ietf.org has address = 4.31.198.61
[=E2=80=A6]

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for = discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* = Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other = bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including = how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_84D0C700-5B85-43CB-B391-2331AC36994B-- From nobody Mon Feb 1 16:54:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 422DA3A161C for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:54:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RuL0ucJpwz9Q; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7ED1E3A161D; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:54:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: <2F31C268-7507-444C-83FC-6230EFE2F7E2@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F9CFB19C-2EF3-4444-BB9A-EF6B36291EF0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 13:54:11 +1300 In-Reply-To: <1D7DD0E0-F138-4285-9D6C-7ED8E3F386B9@ietf.org> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Carsten Bormann References: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> <62549797-49a6-4b8f-9bd2-e6a23826a1ba@www.fastmail.com> <1D7DD0E0-F138-4285-9D6C-7ED8E3F386B9@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 00:54:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F9CFB19C-2EF3-4444-BB9A-EF6B36291EF0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 2/02/2021, at 1:30 PM, Jay Daley wrote: >=20 > Apologies for this. AFAIK one of the tools servers, 4.31.198.61, had = died and cannot be restarted and it has not been removed from the DNS. = I have asked for it to be removed. It turns out that the DNS is also controlled by Henrik and while we can = just undelegate and replicate it on the main DNS servers, I am loathe to = do that without understanding the consequences. This will therefore = have to wait until tomorrow. My apologies again. Jay >=20 > For info, the tools.ietf.org servers are = donated boxes under Henrik=E2=80=99s admin control and located in the = AMS office. Clearly, all production services need to move off them. >=20 > Jay >=20 >> On 2/02/2021, at 1:21 PM, Carsten Bormann > wrote: >>=20 >> Oh. I looked more closely: >>=20 >> time curl -vI = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-liu-dyncast-ps-usecases-00 = >> * Trying 4.31.198.61... >> * TCP_NODELAY set >>=20 >> (Here is the long delay!) >>=20 >> * Connection failed >> * connect to 4.31.198.61 port 443 failed: Operation timed out >> * Trying 4.31.198.62... >> * TCP_NODELAY set >> * Connected to tools.ietf.org (4.31.198.62) = port 443 (#0) >> * ALPN, offering h2 >> * ALPN, offering http/1.1 >> * successfully set certificate verify locations: >> [=E2=80=A6] >>=20 >> $ host tools.ietf.org >> tools.ietf.org has address 4.31.198.62 >> tools.ietf.org has address 64.170.98.42 >> tools.ietf.org has address 4.31.198.61 >> [=E2=80=A6] >>=20 >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>=20 >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org = >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: = webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org = >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss = >=20 > --=20 > Jay Daley > IETF Executive Director > jay@ietf.org >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_F9CFB19C-2EF3-4444-BB9A-EF6B36291EF0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 2/02/2021, at 1:30 PM, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> = wrote:

Apologies for this. =  AFAIK one of the tools servers, 4.31.198.61, had died and = cannot be restarted and it has not been removed from the DNS.  I = have asked for it to be removed.

It turns out that the DNS is also controlled by = Henrik and while we can just undelegate and replicate it on the main DNS = servers, I am loathe to do that without understanding the consequences. =  This will therefore have to wait until tomorrow.

My apologies again.

Jay


For = info, the tools.ietf.org servers are donated boxes under = Henrik=E2=80=99s admin control and located in the AMS office. =  Clearly, all production services need to move off them.

Jay

On 2/02/2021, at 1:21 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> = wrote:

Oh.  I looked more closely:

time curl -vI https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-liu-dyncast-ps-usecases-00
*   Trying 4.31.198.61...
* = TCP_NODELAY set

(Here is the long = delay!)

* Connection failed
* = connect to 4.31.198.61 port 443 failed: Operation timed out
*   Trying 4.31.198.62...
* = TCP_NODELAY set
* Connected to tools.ietf.org = (4.31.198.62) port 443 (#0)
* ALPN, offering h2
* ALPN, offering http/1.1
* successfully set = certificate verify locations:
[=E2=80=A6]

$ host tools.ietf.org
tools.ietf.org has = address 4.31.198.62
tools.ietf.org has address 64.170.98.42
tools.ietf.org has = address 4.31.198.61
[=E2=80=A6]

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for = discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* = Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: = webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other = bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including = how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

___________________________________________________= ________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for = discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* = Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other = bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including = how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_F9CFB19C-2EF3-4444-BB9A-EF6B36291EF0-- From nobody Mon Feb 1 17:09:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F8C3A162B; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 17:09:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K61-1hTu-r8O; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 17:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 209383A162E; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 17:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.152] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DV6D8282vzyS2; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:09:44 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_41A67F2C-8F5D-4F83-B2D9-149CC9A5DD55" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <2F31C268-7507-444C-83FC-6230EFE2F7E2@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:09:43 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-Id: <9780D126-4E41-497C-B2D5-CC0830FAC0CC@tzi.org> References: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> <62549797-49a6-4b8f-9bd2-e6a23826a1ba@www.fastmail.com> <1D7DD0E0-F138-4285-9D6C-7ED8E3F386B9@ietf.org> <2F31C268-7507-444C-83FC-6230EFE2F7E2@ietf.org> To: Jay Daley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 01:09:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_41A67F2C-8F5D-4F83-B2D9-149CC9A5DD55 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 2. Feb 2021, at 01:54, Jay Daley wrote: >=20 >> Apologies for this. AFAIK one of the tools servers, 4.31.198.61, had = died and cannot be restarted and it has not been removed from the DNS. = I have asked for it to be removed. >=20 > It turns out that the DNS is also controlled by Henrik and while we = can just undelegate and replicate it on the main DNS servers, I am = loathe to do that without understanding the consequences. This will = therefore have to wait until tomorrow. I don=E2=80=99t remember how often I have had to set up an emergency box = (or an IP address on an existing box) for cases like this that has just = a TCP forwarder to a live one. Each time, there was no canned software that could do that forwarding so = I had to write that forwarder from scratch as well. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten --Apple-Mail=_41A67F2C-8F5D-4F83-B2D9-149CC9A5DD55 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = 2. Feb 2021, at 01:54, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:

Apologies for this.  AFAIK one of the tools = servers, 4.31.198.61, had died and cannot be restarted and it has = not been removed from the DNS.  I have asked for it to be = removed.

It = turns out that the DNS is also controlled by Henrik and while we can = just undelegate and replicate it on the main DNS servers, I am loathe to = do that without understanding the consequences.  This will = therefore have to wait until = tomorrow.

I don=E2=80=99t remember how often I have had to set up an = emergency box (or an IP address on an existing box) for cases like this = that has just a TCP forwarder to a live one.
Each = time, there was no canned software that could do that forwarding so I = had to write that forwarder from scratch as well.
Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, = Carsten

= --Apple-Mail=_41A67F2C-8F5D-4F83-B2D9-149CC9A5DD55-- From nobody Mon Feb 1 17:15:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82F63A1633; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 17:15:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wT1XnzsKOfPH; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 17:15:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67E523A1634; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 17:15:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.152] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DV6Lc6HGjzyRk; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:15:20 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7B64ECDD-29EC-458E-989B-D644D94DD29F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <9780D126-4E41-497C-B2D5-CC0830FAC0CC@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:15:20 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-Id: References: <20210201171846.GC21@kduck.mit.edu> <62549797-49a6-4b8f-9bd2-e6a23826a1ba@www.fastmail.com> <1D7DD0E0-F138-4285-9D6C-7ED8E3F386B9@ietf.org> <2F31C268-7507-444C-83FC-6230EFE2F7E2@ietf.org> <9780D126-4E41-497C-B2D5-CC0830FAC0CC@tzi.org> To: Jay Daley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] tools.ietf.org slow first load of htmlized drafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 01:15:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7B64ECDD-29EC-458E-989B-D644D94DD29F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 2. Feb 2021, at 02:09, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Each time, there was no canned software that could do that forwarding = so I had to write that forwarder from scratch as well. The universe has advanced. http://www.rinetd.com brew install rinetd Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten --Apple-Mail=_7B64ECDD-29EC-458E-989B-D644D94DD29F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = 2. Feb 2021, at 02:09, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

Each time, there was no canned software that = could do that forwarding so I had to write that forwarder from scratch = as well.

The universe = has advanced.

http://www.rinetd.com

brew install rinetd

Gr=C3=BC=C3= =9Fe, Carsten

= --Apple-Mail=_7B64ECDD-29EC-458E-989B-D644D94DD29F-- From nobody Tue Feb 2 02:39:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35BF83A1919 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:39:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 973cIOaVWuOS for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:39:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FB4E3A1917 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 02:39:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:b0a8:2ece:191:5755] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:b0a8:2ece:191:5755]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1AE4E600057 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:39:27 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1612262368; bh=8yGm0jCSo7cp9SyOYZ0TNShsKX5vvsJ4Pa6/aagOtEA=; h=From:Subject:Date:To; b=LTBHVH6xRLFOaGqQ3HbSYj6ncAqc0V7ZQFO1g9c4Zxqy+MSKWwsbR2drvP6if0247 rO5/cj7iqDygT6CDqXXOtQOZ0miVNptJsP2No6NJaUyST1w5iDT4aGcRq3y7jzezy2 /h0dArSJkcZUKSFUvZgkIDkZTcCMCnjNhp59eFZw= From: Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7CD151C9-162C-4BB6-B428-FE4B71ED72D2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:39:27 +0200 To: Tools Team Discussion X-MailScanner-ID: 1AE4E600057.A2063 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Login timeouts on the various trac instances X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 10:39:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7CD151C9-162C-4BB6-B428-FE4B71ED72D2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, not sure if this is the right list, but: The various trac instances we have seem to all time out user logins = pretty aggressively, after something that feels like 24-48h. That's pretty annoying, since one needs to constantly re-login. Doubly = so, because trac uses HTTP authentication that doesn't integrate with my = password manager (1Password), so I need to manually copy&paste my = password. Could we lengthen the timout and/or switch to forms-based = authentication? Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_7CD151C9-162C-4BB6-B428-FE4B71ED72D2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAZK98ACgkQVLXDCb9w wVeHzA//aQle9aSkOsUyZyaihmtokVFIqBRxMvpbx7QC9g3pKiDm436wdkM1TrFF xJqfqNUG1Wz4mMuN1Pe3LXgIcDEjKjCqJUB6oQ68/th4/iw4NBbIVGpnLyS3VXo1 0Pu+6m8N2ccGaI9reLrIOHZNLghBTt0mz5xb3UfILzzEUXt/Khacdh6P2/TpouEt V1Go2gJqRfOPkd6XRte8b9kpRHROmpHlfgE3FiDAUy0HENiUKlk+QIQYRA4gg3O/ 6IW26oEruQNzyWKrdlvTIYGHkzqsA77vzVdcfzsx1crRyLmh9zKq0/P73lw3yZBV af0EG9k67G+9nwE/O9dN/pXhWfd0Oi2kSYUSYKyGDpKsBn2K6YPRqAJotqqG6cN8 h6ucZPzU5IzmOrSv4z78YWM8L6WqeY5DiBZHqg8gsp7grbWnZ3LMt8G5bRqobvOd yh4b6SsK0RxMVxKxfvwq+fmTFZNrsBDD1pdQYbY0d/Us5pGyzjAc2BXfxXON862+ sXuU4y6Biw8g/vV5ZdREree4jbkPxXdBGde30E+43gU4M6oPrM5aRerFE+CA02MM Hmit6vn4BDxgPQO9NP0g4EDvkJDKiKEzNYUH3RP4X9fLH1/PVuNwEVTC1NxGtD4C pDeqAAbSB2cPu34tN5u1K/rCM6kIgmnVouO8PapjHHKKfqGM/SI= =DaPQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7CD151C9-162C-4BB6-B428-FE4B71ED72D2-- From nobody Tue Feb 2 08:47:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E9E3A0B56 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:47:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jZoMu-UVLZKn for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [64.170.98.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65CBB3A0B29 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:56685 helo=tannat.local) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1l6yq4-0003XP-Px; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 08:47:41 -0800 To: Lars Eggert , Tools Team Discussion References: From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 17:47:33 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xhrRwVccBT53CjMxciG9nhQHGr0HqembG" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, lars@eggert.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Login timeouts on the various trac instances X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 16:47:47 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --xhrRwVccBT53CjMxciG9nhQHGr0HqembG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OVxb61jjKxCm9tq7PXV8EfjrjT5dG9rW9"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Lars Eggert , Tools Team Discussion Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Login timeouts on the various trac instances References: In-Reply-To: --OVxb61jjKxCm9tq7PXV8EfjrjT5dG9rW9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lars, On 2021-02-02 11:39, Lars Eggert wrote: > Hi, >=20 > not sure if this is the right list, but: >=20 > The various trac instances we have seem to all time out user logins pre= tty aggressively, after something that feels like 24-48h. >=20 > That's pretty annoying, since one needs to constantly re-login. Doubly = so, because trac uses HTTP authentication that doesn't integrate with my = password manager (1Password), so I need to manually copy&paste my passwor= d. >=20 > Could we lengthen the timout and/or switch to forms-based authenticatio= n? I've set this to 30 days for the datatracker and xml2rfc issue trackers. Will email Glen with instructions for how to do this for the ietf-hosted Trac instances. Best, Henrik --OVxb61jjKxCm9tq7PXV8EfjrjT5dG9rW9-- --xhrRwVccBT53CjMxciG9nhQHGr0HqembG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAmAZgiUACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrfxBAAtNVjBA3rhFrmzI9Albz5Rm5fLE/ReC7bFfJS57lTFDCKDBLsyeOUr1Py rmtAGpACgtmKTNtQC/bDsfNrp5WUzzaS0DEygkV237F0o6PzlthBfCzJ15Lv0FMf 86dbgGC0C4RiO7ANagAJZxAHbGqxWpxtIeHW2XUWyJUMovf+ZuWBvfqZsfuCF1RL zDpyqECjJP4iKGFlDicyW3zphR4jZGuUL4hbw1oA6ffdr9EgMzU39hbgMoca1Wuo c5RmXDZO+BdTeaEBYpi45rHdwYsrohEKjiAjOdyILR4REuacC5wcmgrV+8T2SILZ gvceZHqcgX1pW7fJkZpq6raSIoJnO2LC/cSlC5Cx4sDDyF1GWl2Vilylga3L0TNZ DuwGJpn9n4bCXb6CXj5+xgVgIOgp25p68RhZTY6XXCzImyJ6DJowKV/e6tFZOBcQ jVS+L0R7DB4ZsdJ02wM0XUZ2AJh1tlb7wHYIV7tfVZMUfT85nkV2AE5Dv3RRN83h TLyM5lSmiVidgG7uu3kj7mKacSHhNB9IvYZv4Io5yiQR6TssaSS1K6rWYgHojtu3 Ax6FYEYF4+MteDT1XGRyOh7TO+17WF4CM3bQQACsmssrHMNV+TGYpW5iiz8pQMgM gu8FgVMF6qULFw/tJ8rCB2+kOMctJ8H6ldNqS5yWTHZe2VhzT2k= =bVXj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xhrRwVccBT53CjMxciG9nhQHGr0HqembG-- From nobody Tue Feb 2 08:59:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F07703A0C7B for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:59:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2X07_LAXF6CU for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:59:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F250A3A0C1C for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:59:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id f2so24770691ljp.11 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 08:59:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6beOU5Ow7VT2QxZPxv7D40ZDMKzQvtsq0HcXfkf+1rM=; b=YdJEOr1F+y8M2EICvT1+HjacHGloU0P4sucz5G1NoYz/az/kaOvmAmi458t7Q9KEc3 l4LHN4x4vTNJzz8icnZaiVdNplID/fNRRy0avrIO93kUHpw42ietIdKYYarnPHb2KO3I NE/sY4YWW4yPYR5IrRpfxHq4yUgEnpwif9yQgaxm27KqqGaHaNSe3sCrGYqn8cwccVHc KVbE+N2O0tfED5zXclaY1fFcJttJz2eQQxOT/wKasqJOBlegiFjc50GC6mQQ2bnTio65 2CYViOe4xjGoYj+vkpn8nfu4t4du9K/gxubmbyjPR78UL/C4drvtvuJuv6PIQ6N+/ksl Qgow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=6beOU5Ow7VT2QxZPxv7D40ZDMKzQvtsq0HcXfkf+1rM=; b=Vo2ZoS2zY4/4Bj8UOZL69THxrsWyVEdJmgSoauP2HYFIt1tSiwECWd3UmTd9jWJ4l7 cQOwyzXGO4d9z8asMUQFOvOXLEpK72Ca5D/umR62cTvmdideaa2eNcsUrXKjS2idpUSc qzZubvmCS0SAIAagLsBDpDdPv13fWvke9XfyhiECHi0FO83uUdaF7ANqTfDjswSpQiqG M9KjY8tcyYLY2DsiLlroUqxXN5IPN+VwzCktI2KH+e28hBwT8xF3pQ4zm8GT4bGDlmbq iD/G1bZ07bY66JIrd8D6VNab5AvDmReHHPQfeVNTk8aTeJlLDG+h+ovY22g0RpUIWl6x ed5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531abAMfJwWPE5VNJFm9SSokF1yzZVY1BcnwPxZJkM6Ua3ZNnsq/ QPids2UdtRwo0n/8dNxITTvVo6XKe069I/wFMKwukVQl+yqkJw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxng6qno/3fAEtYc53mAFJuWCzDMpO0qCmn6IM2FzQN6ZgKqNPyYsBHcbfbqhyGiMmgVXXBMmSrmTgvQy04URs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:503:: with SMTP id o3mr6206964ljp.2.1612285156015; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 08:59:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Eric Rescorla Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:58:40 -0800 Message-ID: To: tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000000581a05ba5d6400" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: ietf.org not being served by Cloudflare X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 16:59:24 -0000 --00000000000000581a05ba5d6400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I emailed some people individually, but I understand that this may be the right place for it. --- Hi folks, I just noticed that whereas www.ietf.org is served off of Cloudflare, ietf.org seems to be served directly off servers at AMS. In addition, there is no redirect, so if you go to, for instance https://ietf.org, you just continue to be served by those servers, which is not ideal for a number of reasons [0] It seems like what you want is to: 1. Point the A/AAAA records for ietf.org to Cloudflare (either directly or by delegating the NS records) 2. (Potentially) 301 ietf.org -> www.ietf.org -Ekr [0] For one, I see wait times of almost two seconds before the first byte. --00000000000000581a05ba5d6400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I emailed some people individually, but I understand that = this may be the right place for it.

= ---

Hi folks,

I= just noticed that whereas www.ietf.org is served off of Cloudflare,
ietf.org seems to be served directly off servers = at AMS. In addition,
there is no redirect, so if you go to, for instance= https://ietf.org,
yo= u just continue to be served by those servers, which is not ideal
for a = number of reasons [0]

It seems like what you want is to:

1. P= oint the A/AAAA records for i= etf.org to Cloudflare (either directly
=C2=A0 =C2=A0or by delegating= the NS records)
2. (Potentially) 301 ietf.org -> www.ietf.org

-Ekr


[0] For one, I see wait times= of almost two seconds before the first byte.
--00000000000000581a05ba5d6400-- From nobody Tue Feb 2 09:55:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1403A0D66 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 09:55:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xp-Enr4jstb9 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 09:55:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEBE43A0D09 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 09:55:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB19438996; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:58:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 6vq-hFWCd1Yh; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:58:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5B73898D; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:58:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40131D2C; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:55:13 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Eric Rescorla , tools-discuss In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: ietf.org not being served by Cloudflare X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 17:55:31 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eric Rescorla wrote: > I emailed some people individually, but I understand that this may be > the right place for it. > --- > Hi folks, > I just noticed that whereas www.ietf.org is served off of Cloudflare, > ietf.org seems to be served directly off servers at AMS. In addition, Also, ietf.org/rfcdiff is there (on the AMS servers). Among things that I think could use some of it's own (isolated) compute power is rfcdiff. Put it into rfcdiff.ietf.org/rfcdiff for now or something like that. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAZkgAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVPrggAuBUS0EIuiNWQdnzOvubkt0atsyYD0MVqokHQjDw0np6oV3CsUkm7imf0 Tm6LCCEBGvAJjLg+62H8Wjd9hCuHDhtjrHPb/8DUmHNClg0b7NCnBxjJxidnFZUN mKwUlDikiSnqwLEXMZ5+mHl5tVhzjMjHUMDRiDR9UMBGGUWuGhU3Hs/ByXsum7YH sXEkVoD/mPfk5A2mJf6ZtcrGk5vIGR31mgGs0wKzUdJaIIDjv8p0WLPNYXibjUU0 RpE+Jk2DYCD83bbJhvOzoAcIThL+H6Lrx4aFzIJwb9UeZHGIJTCgOoNY4c3VmaEy SY+OV/ACAHMhZehkM16hhBors73ZLg== =OUCx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Feb 2 10:40:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E253A0DDF for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:40:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WELCOMELIST=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZpqZcgVpljyd for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96C333A0DDE for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0E4938B4F0; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.86.10] (173-8-133-94-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.133.94]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A91B038B4E4; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:40:29 -0800 (PST) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Glen Organization: AMS Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:40:30 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Login timeouts on the various trac instances X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 18:40:32 -0000 On 2/2/2021 08:47, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Lars, > On 2021-02-02 11:39, Lars Eggert wrote: >> Hi, >> not sure if this is the right list, but: >> The various trac instances we have seem to all time out user logins pretty aggressively, after something that feels like 24-48h. >> That's pretty annoying, since one needs to constantly re-login. Doubly so, because trac uses HTTP authentication that doesn't integrate with my password manager (1Password), so I need to manually copy&paste my password. >> Could we lengthen the timout and/or switch to forms-based authentication? > I've set this to 30 days for the datatracker and xml2rfc issue trackers. > Will email Glen with instructions for how to do this for the ietf-hosted > Trac instances. All - I have received the instructions from Henrik, and implemented them. Thank you! Glen From nobody Tue Feb 2 10:42:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA973A0E02 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:42:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_WELCOMELIST=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t3N_3SEtFMpw for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A3A93A0DE2 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F8C338B4F0 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:42:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.86.10] (173-8-133-94-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.133.94]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8128E38B4E4 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:42:18 -0800 (PST) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Glen Organization: AMS Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:42:18 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: ietf.org not being served by Cloudflare X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 18:42:21 -0000 On 2/2/2021 08:58, Eric Rescorla wrote: > I emailed some people individually, but I understand that this may be > the right place for it. > I just noticed that whereas www.ietf.org is served > off of Cloudflare, > ietf.org seems to be served directly off servers at > AMS. In addition, > there is no redirect, so if you go to, for instance https://ietf.org > , > you just continue to be served by those servers, which is not ideal > for a number of reasons [0] > It seems like what you want is to: > 1. Point the A/AAAA records for ietf.org to Cloudflare > (either directly >    or by delegating the NS records) > 2. (Potentially) 301 ietf.org -> www.ietf.org > Hi Eric - My apologies, we did get your email, but of course things take time to discuss and sort out. I'm sorry nobody sent you a reply, we all probably assumed someone else would. I know that this is being worked on, so please give it some time, and Robert or I will update when there is news. Glen From nobody Tue Feb 2 10:44:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2693A0E09 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:44:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_WELCOMELIST=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8pGqDXaNASRe for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59A803A0E02 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C53438B4F2 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:44:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.86.10] (173-8-133-94-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.133.94]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E0AB38B4F0 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:44:28 -0800 (PST) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <31996.1612288513@localhost> From: Glen Organization: AMS Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:44:28 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <31996.1612288513@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: ietf.org not being served by Cloudflare X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 18:44:31 -0000 On 2/2/2021 09:55, Michael Richardson wrote: > Also, ietf.org/rfcdiff is there (on the AMS servers). > Among things that I think could use some of it's own (isolated) compute power is rfcdiff. > Put it into rfcdiff.ietf.org/rfcdiff for now or something like that. Michael - Acknowledging this. What you suggest is absolutely on the radar of the Tools Implementation Team, and my own "AMS" radar, and is planned for the hopefully near future. We're not there yet, so please be patient, but I wanted you to know that this is something being planned for. Glen From nobody Tue Feb 2 10:52:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9778F3A1047 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:52:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bZw6UJLOQ7Gv for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 916DA3A1044 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 112Iqf32032336 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:52:41 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612291961; bh=qEyEMuXYHKLccTrHaAymhmBQQ1XxqDULT2pTYsQD2Bc=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=fOZhccBsOwjxneZmfAVGUf90fm/QVHQ+bqKWXAnSJWmfFNlWAeg4fSDIgMOG4t6F3 QaJwsgaeFdc+vE1oV7SI4mEej2AkvlSUEyzP0QrVSJXavHeCCVTsGcdXv+Y6sidrHH j7SHRdTbO4sSUcRA2rDI+o2l1MCyUCCe3Uy7gmtM= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <8e73c77c-1ca5-10e6-43dd-dc678bd2a29f@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 12:52:36 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: ietf.org not being served by Cloudflare X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 18:52:51 -0000 I also apologize for not sending an immediate ack to your original direct message. I agree that there are changes needed here. There are some slightly-nontrivial things to straighten out in order to make those changes, and I was (am) in the middle of working out how to straighten those things. My expectation is that we will implement the changes needed here in a few days (modulo priority interruptions). RjS On 2/2/21 12:42 PM, Glen wrote: > On 2/2/2021 08:58, Eric Rescorla wrote: >> I emailed some people individually, but I understand that this may be >> the right place for it. >> I just noticed that whereas www.ietf.org is >> served off of Cloudflare, >> ietf.org seems to be served directly off servers at >> AMS. In addition, >> there is no redirect, so if you go to, for instance https://ietf.org >> , >> you just continue to be served by those servers, which is not ideal >> for a number of reasons [0] >> It seems like what you want is to: >> 1. Point the A/AAAA records for ietf.org to >> Cloudflare (either directly >>     or by delegating the NS records) >> 2. (Potentially) 301 ietf.org -> www.ietf.org >> > > Hi Eric - > > My apologies, we did get your email, but of course things take time to > discuss and sort out.  I'm sorry nobody sent you a reply, we all > probably assumed someone else would.  I know that this is being worked > on, so please give it some time, and Robert or I will update when > there is news. > > Glen > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: > datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Tue Feb 2 11:12:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D123A1083 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 11:12:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C_4LcxRtFHaM for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 11:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6090B3A1085 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 11:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B27A600065; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 21:12:11 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1612293131; bh=NeeRGV3MHtO8CJhCs6ZAL2zoZQOEzskzCWqKF0im7mU=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=hJPSxv6Ro023lHUO5MZ7o06aoUOZMGXD+17R6UC7XmXkk7Au++mMLHXi+ZSHro0L0 FsGn1rng+/B9ys/UastzzrNCM8eab+A6VsGVJPHAGRtnNn+06QZpYzIdmHywGruqOz Wp+QmlNx8sC/CWaf92nbwGa5n4/2UqLLC2akLPIE= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <3A4F55C2-1F4B-4CEC-8EA3-0BB834CAC29A@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BF2DD064-7FB8-4E37-A162-8B6778F80629"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 21:12:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Tools Team Discussion To: Glen References: X-MailScanner-ID: 4B27A600065.AFB4C X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Login timeouts on the various trac instances X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 19:12:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BF2DD064-7FB8-4E37-A162-8B6778F80629 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2021-2-2, at 20:40, Glen wrote: > On 2/2/2021 08:47, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> I've set this to 30 days for the datatracker and xml2rfc issue trackers. >> Will email Glen with instructions for how to do this for the ietf-hosted >> Trac instances. > > I have received the instructions from Henrik, and implemented them. Thanks Henrik, thanks Glen. Lars --Apple-Mail=_BF2DD064-7FB8-4E37-A162-8B6778F80629 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAZpAoACgkQVLXDCb9w wVeb0w//XklABiL7I4mi1Fvdey4pQuqV8r16jeHoU2n2mNu/RWDJsOOL/rYXyqlw BlZtANEqmcX1m6sEN6SwMLPYN0K0fHQE3lz63nK4984vfZfRMdPYEIc2DNVRHXSt WGG/esZ0ebE9QdFhSBrM+z6bZFZ0gjQGxQi9hUbKuXq9DdtuYG1Oblr0b0FArQvR bSBWVzShRVdjAWkOwwbm2+e71tZg6lRJ54fLuZh0olvMDQP8sytqwpj2EvvqMeXk OurBL6BXZO59KNh7KO4XseouEXvjovgB3p2JxwodQRF7emNlJaA2lzUE6nhv8ALm KcHT6+GKmwt41KC1EB4umzA1eBn2LG5/fjCghTeeB8QdoIvVHeq2SenMIKymvJlW jLyl0CzYDDER/iQ+DQXkbEC3xD9QWQK9Ms24WOH3aXxBIrilEIstxsnAnxT1kxXk 3KR6luc4cNlEpD6DPqwAJ+419UkfELCFeRjJOfmL7VxL+A6hiqZ7pV0dtsTwVQ6N vSrCz34Dk4rGaLKigiH4vz1TytllgyP31jMXv16u4omyWspdQaa13YH5ldefW8QS HouclS0Gif6jeRnOzH0q7fqc3vFq9Ggl3nn9AtfnJJXgk6WrCOXxbOQG80T0iZOr K0Vem9kZsKwWQHerCU0KMC3pn3GY/gu0kd5T805ilU2kuIsZpcM= =Y9yK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_BF2DD064-7FB8-4E37-A162-8B6778F80629-- From nobody Tue Feb 2 15:20:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08F23A0CE3 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:20:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EW1o6i_MYM_N for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 201E63A0CE1 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 112NKq6U029663 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 17:20:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612308053; bh=10Kl5Zp9d5Da1ZI0C78oCPOULbOFP4o/H9OQwJoFkzA=; h=From:To:References:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=X5L4d9BzfRldrXXr7zdww/DovLB4bOAi4X40ka5raBl7uWu5aD8QkFsbbeIvsJdEG 5WfB8lrq2Df9jp18FEhJtcZbdNWCk3CsrUseVBEy5edQ/OCYR3G8swLrfszLfHyKdG Pww3YlpFnMvvaKVY+Fle2Y+AUigB1Dn5Azi/KIhU= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain From: Robert Sparks To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <8e73c77c-1ca5-10e6-43dd-dc678bd2a29f@nostrum.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 17:20:47 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8e73c77c-1ca5-10e6-43dd-dc678bd2a29f@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: ietf.org not being served by Cloudflare X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 23:20:57 -0000 Hi ekr - Things went a bit more quickly than I expected with this. I think the=20 current configuration addresses your concern. We are redirecting ietf.org to www.ietf.org now. We've also made some configuration changes at cloudflare (mostly=20 affecting behavior for people editing content in the wagtail portion of=20 the website). If you see something that still needs adjusting, please let us know. RjS On 2/2/21 12:52 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > I also apologize for not sending an immediate ack to your original=20 > direct message. > > I agree that there are changes needed here. There are some=20 > slightly-nontrivial things to straighten out in order to make those=20 > changes, and I was (am) in the middle of working out how to straighten = > those things. My expectation is that we will implement the changes=20 > needed here in a few days (modulo priority interruptions). > > RjS > > On 2/2/21 12:42 PM, Glen wrote: >> On 2/2/2021 08:58, Eric Rescorla wrote: >>> I emailed some people individually, but I understand that this may=20 >>> be the right place for it. >>> I just noticed that whereas www.ietf.org is=20 >>> served off of Cloudflare, >>> ietf.org seems to be served directly off servers=20 >>> at AMS. In addition, >>> there is no redirect, so if you go to, for instance https://ietf.org = >>> , >>> you just continue to be served by those servers, which is not ideal >>> for a number of reasons [0] >>> It seems like what you want is to: >>> 1. Point the A/AAAA records for ietf.org to=20 >>> Cloudflare (either directly >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0or by delegating the NS records) >>> 2. (Potentially) 301 ietf.org -> www.ietf.org=20 >>> >> >> Hi Eric - >> >> My apologies, we did get your email, but of course things take time=20 >> to discuss and sort out.=C2=A0 I'm sorry nobody sent you a reply, we a= ll=20 >> probably assumed someone else would.=C2=A0 I know that this is being=20 >> worked on, so please give it some time, and Robert or I will update=20 >> when there is news. >> >> Glen >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to:=20 >> datatracker-project@ietf.org >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe):=20 >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to:=20 > datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe):=20 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Tue Feb 2 15:25:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD8B13A0CF1 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:25:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xS8As8NAHdpO for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:25:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48DB33A0CEE for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:25:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id v24so30645729lfr.7 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 15:25:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=q9yyTGbT/VbI9azl85QfREkls/5rmqix5r+sdqBaXtc=; b=kmYl1Eap+QQwNYCENzNBUmQeX6RRiy2TTaZCpnf+Ga+tY86jPoU9mbBrKrkAhKptNi TqxFoD2s7NjULU94YrN80yxGlEQcuhk6YQC1Ne2HbHa8vtJzzsqQa4Apr2fn5N9YMOYV GQVzIck7hBfeTL6jsINxKNYdC9JDcjIV5q2vZcGdUSe9gCw4mEwvs5Om/DA28CvSdUb3 1mwqlSUnMjq8zrKP2KDZRXpZ9WHoyx7555ixt3+JBbCvNRgfgXE3KTeVYIDZB9NGQcKs LKy0I2VoSzeA32nU5A07C0WVgI58VoQE0i8t1P/XpwtL4qQeEvHuP73L1rhqZ/abKWLY KW4g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=q9yyTGbT/VbI9azl85QfREkls/5rmqix5r+sdqBaXtc=; b=hHLvh7MO/bJu22bU4+zi/bigsYWtvDP1Gq3kYl+60Hu7rYIBVKGG8lBoBsnzmPke7b uTfA9xfjt/EH1cnPaeOyOC/7THtGPmaJMdcbwSogl73J29ya95YhuOJuQEccjX6KN7Yx s8tDkiENKW48M9Yja/9/ErhTATsQIwFzeiyJ0cXQ3Gzi4KJxAOOOlGEay4kB434X+EyW GuvkieuAlOUHPvzm+uXkzzuv721AchNvZ3v2J/xXeBcJh9jp4+5kqg2TOZJGKZvrKODu jHTE4ZYQ1t+f/jz+8DIo4JdLBSjSFYBMic6EqW3pYuYqYCdZ7TSUw8VAqqJKGZVl7YeM NYKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530iPyXpHP1XXa0qpK/C4oMGH3QD3TG7cwku8bV2mPsphgBQvCuT 80LE8lMHPtDKoOQkoL8PrJfwx6xdSHiS1WxUkxE/En18fA1StA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx8clUXdrhyi02kNhnih06NiwE+66l25er9gP/bx25ErMEkjO97+yDK9srx3VNJMEYyU6vds9pO/vDcuNAyEGo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3253:: with SMTP id c19mr179656lfr.245.1612308344262; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 15:25:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8e73c77c-1ca5-10e6-43dd-dc678bd2a29f@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eric Rescorla Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:25:07 -0800 Message-ID: To: Robert Sparks Cc: tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000020e42105ba62cab3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: ietf.org not being served by Cloudflare X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 23:25:49 -0000 --00000000000020e42105ba62cab3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks. That seems to be a lot faster. -Ekr On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:21 PM Robert Sparks wrote: > Hi ekr - > > Things went a bit more quickly than I expected with this. I think the > current configuration addresses your concern. > > We are redirecting ietf.org to www.ietf.org now. > > We've also made some configuration changes at cloudflare (mostly > affecting behavior for people editing content in the wagtail portion of > the website). > > If you see something that still needs adjusting, please let us know. > > RjS > > On 2/2/21 12:52 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > > I also apologize for not sending an immediate ack to your original > > direct message. > > > > I agree that there are changes needed here. There are some > > slightly-nontrivial things to straighten out in order to make those > > changes, and I was (am) in the middle of working out how to straighten > > those things. My expectation is that we will implement the changes > > needed here in a few days (modulo priority interruptions). > > > > RjS > > > > On 2/2/21 12:42 PM, Glen wrote: > >> On 2/2/2021 08:58, Eric Rescorla wrote: > >>> I emailed some people individually, but I understand that this may > >>> be the right place for it. > >>> I just noticed that whereas www.ietf.org is > >>> served off of Cloudflare, > >>> ietf.org seems to be served directly off servers > >>> at AMS. In addition, > >>> there is no redirect, so if you go to, for instance https://ietf.org > >>> , > >>> you just continue to be served by those servers, which is not ideal > >>> for a number of reasons [0] > >>> It seems like what you want is to: > >>> 1. Point the A/AAAA records for ietf.org to > >>> Cloudflare (either directly > >>> or by delegating the NS records) > >>> 2. (Potentially) 301 ietf.org -> www.ietf.org > >>> > >> > >> Hi Eric - > >> > >> My apologies, we did get your email, but of course things take time > >> to discuss and sort out. I'm sorry nobody sent you a reply, we all > >> probably assumed someone else would. I know that this is being > >> worked on, so please give it some time, and Robert or I will update > >> when there is news. > >> > >> Glen > >> > >> ___________________________________________________________ > >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: > >> datatracker-project@ietf.org > >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: > > datatracker-project@ietf.org > > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > --00000000000020e42105ba62cab3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks. That seems to be a lot faster.

=
-Ekr


On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:21 PM Robert S= parks <rjsparks@nostrum.com&= gt; wrote:
Hi ek= r -

Things went a bit more quickly than I expected with this. I think the
current configuration addresses your concern.

We are redirecting ietf.org to www.ietf.org now.

We've also made some configuration changes at cloudflare (mostly
affecting behavior for people editing content in the wagtail portion of the website).

If you see something that still needs adjusting, please let us know.

RjS

On 2/2/21 12:52 PM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> I also apologize for not sending an immediate ack to your original > direct message.
>
> I agree that there are changes needed here. There are some
> slightly-nontrivial things to straighten out in order to make those > changes, and I was (am) in the middle of working out how to straighten=
> those things. My expectation is that we will implement the changes > needed here in a few days (modulo priority interruptions).
>
> RjS
>
> On 2/2/21 12:42 PM, Glen wrote:
>> On 2/2/2021 08:58, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>>> I emailed some people individually, but I understand that this= may
>>> be the right place for it.
>>> I just noticed that whereas www.ietf.org <http://www.ietf.org&g= t; is
>>> served off of Cloudflare,
>>> ietf.org <http://ietf.org> seems to be served directly off servers=
>>> at AMS. In addition,
>>> there is no redirect, so if you go to, for instance https://ietf.org
>>> <https://ietf.org>,
>>> you just continue to be served by those servers, which is not = ideal
>>> for a number of reasons [0]
>>> It seems like what you want is to:
>>> 1. Point the A/AAAA records for ietf.org <http://ietf.org> to
>>> Cloudflare (either directly
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0or by delegating the NS records)
>>> 2. (Potentially) 301 ietf.org <http://ietf.org> -> www.ietf.org >>> <http://www.ietf.org>
>>
>> Hi Eric -
>>
>> My apologies, we did get your email, but of course things take tim= e
>> to discuss and sort out.=C2=A0 I'm sorry nobody sent you a rep= ly, we all
>> probably assumed someone else would.=C2=A0 I know that this is bei= ng
>> worked on, so please give it some time, and Robert or I will updat= e
>> when there is news.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug report= s.
>> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to:
>> = datatracker-project@ietf.org
>> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
>> List info (including how to Unsubscribe):
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/to= ols-discuss
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to:
> data= tracker-project@ietf.org
> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
> List info (including how to Unsubscribe):
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-= discuss

___________________________________________________________
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--00000000000020e42105ba62cab3-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 07:36:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122C83A09F6 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 07:36:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.28 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.28 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PebmLI8T8O-N for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 07:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67C8F3A09EF for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 07:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 113Fa8nU051297 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:36:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612366569; bh=ZiRRRztRzULhedtZIJy0xlaPz1AQsHjz0AchEqgJqKs=; h=To:From:Subject:Date; b=ZtxBMjVKkvKVLHq9MYYI8npg9pFUhYZ+g3jERtfwwq5OPKPf2v5Zf3zTOrpYuZzGr Uf6ZXoBunVae/wahBgElJZxMLdL+XykWW7FFmq4ScK8thTlKBon91zFRIIwWNAYZy/ WNWBThriJnYvZ8vEtcmCac7kijlA4cIT5Ti+uuLU= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss , Michael Richardson , Lars Eggert From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:36:03 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 15:36:20 -0000 All, and particularly Michael, who IIRC made the original request: The upcoming meetings ics calendar currently includes meeting important dates (but the page does not show them). Lars points out that this is both inconsistent, and redundant with the separate important dates ics calendar we have. Would it be reasonable to remove the important dates from the upcoming.ics calendar? (Also note that the way these important dates are currently being represented in both of the above .ics files is not right - it fails to display in calendar.app, and causes other calendaring systems to assert that the whole day is "Busy" - see https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/3161). 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Wed, 03 Feb 2021 15:57:58 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint3.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint3.akamai.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 113FnRaR016912; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 10:57:58 -0500 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.113]) by prod-mail-ppoint3.akamai.com with ESMTP id 36d3p46cnq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 03 Feb 2021 10:57:58 -0500 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.119) by ustx2ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.123) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:57:57 -0600 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.010; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:57:57 -0600 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Robert Sparks , tools-discuss , Michael Richardson , "Lars Eggert" Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics Thread-Index: AQHW+kJWwPjIEu0hFUyfWelkds9isKpGpusA Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:57:56 +0000 Message-ID: <8F789755-CA24-416C-B744-FB28A35E8DA5@akamai.com> References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.45.21011103 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43] Content-Type: text/plain; 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.31) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 15:58:10 -0000 PiAgIFdvdWxkIGl0IGJlIHJlYXNvbmFibGUgdG8gcmVtb3ZlIHRoZSBpbXBvcnRhbnQgZGF0ZXMg ZnJvbSB0aGUgDQogICAgdXBjb21pbmcuaWNzIGNhbGVuZGFyPw0KDQpTb3VuZHMgZ29vZCB0byBt ZS4NCg0K From nobody Wed Feb 3 09:07:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 050923A0BFA for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:07:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FnQQ0yTH_A5m for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 343603A0BF8 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E15389B9; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:10:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id MrmsJrPT_pgb; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:10:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F1F389B1; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:10:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626D5F5; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:07:40 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Robert Sparks , tools-discuss , Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 17:07:45 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert Sparks wrote: > All, and particularly Michael, who IIRC made the original request: > The upcoming meetings ics calendar currently includes meeting importa= nt > dates (but the page does not show them). Lars points out that this is > both inconsistent, and redundant with the separate important dates ics > calendar we have. I'm okay with important dates being elsewhere. What feed is that page? https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/ does not mention it. I get to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ only by going into a specific meeting. I think that ultimately my original complaint was that the upcoming included the *meeting* things, which was redundant with having the meeting calendar = loaded. I think that this has been fixed now. The primary utility I have with upcoming.ics is that it tells me (in various roles), when there are other (virtual) interim meetings. I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats and other related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). Again, the goal is either de-conflicting, or at least, consciously knowing about double bookin= gs. > Would it be reasonable to remove the important dates from the > upcoming.ics calendar? YES. > (Also note that the way these important dates are currently being > represented in both of the above .ics files is not right - it fails to > display in calendar.app, and causes other calendaring systems to asse= rt > that the whole day is "Busy" - see > https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/3161). Oh. That's really bad. I guess that's because they are not associated with a specific time. Maybe for some things, like Draft Deadline, a 5 minute event at 23:55:00 would work. That would also establish the deadline into the right time zon= e. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAa2FwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVciwgAqntqdRiD9VTlcb+uzwOevPud9UHlUF1Quj6hPHWyIcdoU4YI7A1hgTFP zE9sjGYMa4ckbbNz9nrSWSaDqcwxvmcNzbf2m6JhCDuhBxCKxlgrUuGLi85qnStb lF78pyYlbWtxVPL4vtYLNHaZ/nkxiyN1zHcd3v64YAEEn3hwtw0UWw7lwPHEit6O cBiIpG5+XzvseCVqpeiBm4n2GT3aCWOU7CgLFTkTXOL/FYLnUi8IKwF5PYAXOVNL vnJz1Im1qha4avipZqt6A8rg1RuMT2Vk+uWa1mFgdjllGIbt33Wlt+23OZ5KUKy0 1d2+iO5rmasslDF8zKLh9KDsc0pPRA== =CUX+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 09:24:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227713A1548 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:24:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QUBJXX6VNvpd for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85F193A1400 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F1CB6600066; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:21:56 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1612372917; bh=o6phMl6XotNQ/gT6kYw7Q3vEwrAzrDo07mV/RtKOyS4=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=BiZaxEaFmXggzvt6LK7lMXRG/AI1GHnphyxFJsI5rfVPTkj2mC6xcAhJ71Na/G9sh 9vlDZMrfcFireKjc1BGkyHfbkwxs3/pKkInSAYOKhVjimOQlUIRpn5fVRDoXheOwAc Q8EgDJpguTLQe7DIz/51gMp/2e4NIUar+aWfbNwM= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_041E5194-6EAE-417E-815B-2FA9AEDDF7AB"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:21:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20268.1612372060@localhost> Cc: Robert Sparks , tools-discuss To: Michael Richardson References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> X-MailScanner-ID: F1CB6600066.A308D X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 17:24:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_041E5194-6EAE-417E-815B-2FA9AEDDF7AB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2021-2-3, at 19:07, Michael Richardson wrote: > What feed is that page? https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/ does not = mention > it. I get to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ > only by going into a specific meeting. It's on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ Lars --Apple-Mail=_041E5194-6EAE-417E-815B-2FA9AEDDF7AB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAa27IACgkQVLXDCb9w wVfzUA//QE62y9m3yM0oc6GmEbq1PAed2CsaYJ1AMTcAaEVnatOKaiwhOM8Mlw4g TI7YclEuS2iAlI7bXrao1HFqtn7k0wCHZ1DbCAEDUy2RmFWMZ9/C36oPBCnh6wD4 4DXoV1kHKQuCKPueD4Awd2cAKuDSPSJ1bzqp7zlflCEc/sy2/lApe3lRgWq34u8b ZXFjLpbxwLsSY5LCO+p4R4O/v3WxUKCtolP/9ZgoYbnofT3w84pV4fIE28L9devG 9tXuyT7YRWMSMfvXS/1i4Le7Cp6/bgG7hRjSAMph+/BNA0axPyFWR2ysbthjQi0b t/myz2lMBlnO+21abenX9ucj16EzI9O3NWp45bHopfsjBqQQDC1ohntgX5QTuCxL TcybyeaIYUeS+sJBryA51AyTfZa/zn36oXvNTQ4Ks9Pq9XGHqPMLGKh8wYkgvL9o ywgS4WFG8f6+isvICwuBUitXZ44BNF4UUXNmhw5C2ogCdNOuPxcG7Q0E0fSp9F26 U0PvuEAPYQ/1KbLD2g2z2TpEJubvLJY/SKSJcuCt71rNE72Xuw1o0Od+TH5ianUM yq/pOmlrbBusABkLCGxbCZpUqBjCGvCVgOeKKRQegD923FDU3OZuAr9XcYEsMHlf aC1j1CscOLwDWS0RgdN8wqC5Hdud/S9OqxZeBIfISRIUaMyYjT4= =W+yo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_041E5194-6EAE-417E-815B-2FA9AEDDF7AB-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 09:27:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D161F3A0C5C for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:26:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yWvyrVHeJDRD for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:26:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01C0A3A0C3D for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:25:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 20C59600066; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:24:59 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1612373099; bh=4i3LD848ZjFhF73Jez5SfBqfeaGQU2y40wMsosrGqKs=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=k5FNkhq+c4Hh4qpCfQCOW8U2IjHEChMGMPmr0ZdDvgIT5BhMs/ONz138yF+ukFaM1 gLUqsYcI72nrsvqFmkPESuWMRnxT4r644UN/XKBfBdMbHu3Bu4AjDFd8G/UDQNpN/Q lji+QGfxNvAvQhGnYZPQ651c9KcRtKuQtdYDlYkc= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <2645AC62-9340-4562-8323-50AB0ACBC301@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DB0D836F-5663-4B4A-AAAC-AA532EF9E1B1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:24:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20268.1612372060@localhost> Cc: Robert Sparks , tools-discuss To: Michael Richardson References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> X-MailScanner-ID: 20C59600066.A4C24 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 17:26:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DB0D836F-5663-4B4A-AAAC-AA532EF9E1B1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2021-2-3, at 19:07, Michael Richardson wrote: > I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats and = other > related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). Again, the goal = is > either de-conflicting, or at least, consciously knowing about double = bookings. there are separate iCals for different meeting series already (IESG, = IAB, LLC, etc.) I'd really like to focus upcoming.ics on WG and RG = meetings and not lump everything into one iCal file. Or if that's what is wanted, create a new all.ics file that has all the = stuff. Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_DB0D836F-5663-4B4A-AAAC-AA532EF9E1B1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAa3GoACgkQVLXDCb9w wVcYlhAAtc1jwvE90VxDMYOFdjjQWm10OqwjcQjwBm6/VLsU7fI/jxyrc/wTTyNk 7xVCPNPlRda1fSjeDmya91HSvjHAKHGZPWGVXg8P3p8FwNl8uvjbSKWq7urH9V65 V666v02d7k+ajcrx73SRyhrFKW2vz5CM9rBQeGh70oRkVpUOFgxO6hDQNMPzoj1L uoFpPScX50fVcJuMiYAo8COrU9gEHwyNtZyMnPW7m6jpWVrJl6OhdwxZjw8azadJ JTNl4LndsuJB/Dov1stvw5F4e7oMchEZhtcFYArenlsKK12bxdHdDsFVOVVM7WUC XgkTs6dQrnnWdLnxIEf8G8FX3+ggCBrTXdOD/fKKQBadg8CguUWcWn/s96fl1E30 ywiXRlMxEybqLI52Pf/a4BEAUoC7qcsmnWSRMNfrrk5UrMXH1siE5t3ha3GTDpwQ AnY3KMcfwfxX1W3oa0vGltxGUy6pl2w0qfrzKtKYDwQVAKYasNxvIvdRNebEzxZS EDvLbBRUZpStOAXeWceFJX/TFBZgloljA1WaxsLlHX+HmYlJWMR/yq7UpfmBXGor GZ1z7mfBv/Wef7InodzSUEnshKRMoP/y6vdomGrRRoZNFEnVTR6t57Agw8FRh1PH U2OYHOyG2mDWHkWzrbt1/zjyXkBf3t2Jh3h7A6KF/wgYrYSdjt8= =h7HS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_DB0D836F-5663-4B4A-AAAC-AA532EF9E1B1-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 09:28:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1794B3A0C06; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:28:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.281 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EfmafPI0Srz1; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A7803A09B5; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 113HSD0T091278 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:28:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612373294; bh=+hB+DMHjbofsQy9I3RNKCNmEfffz/1cWd0zbUBI2Ylw=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=sr7QJDEGreSJQMc1s668TUhq64lSkvPFE2nnWKNr7/sGF420je5JYlgK1LZTgx+u0 bgp7LSvEZM3qM4w5MarvwTzZKtEN5ReWG+nMbsvUCTSUfP6D/b+BXbk0ClJmc6WLPS 4RHYP4PmxpUuuwJmpuPVAKTUyIRr9Z42UNhOlvA4= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss , Lars Eggert , Greg Wood References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:28:08 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20268.1612372060@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 17:28:19 -0000 On 2/3/21 11:07 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Robert Sparks wrote: > > All, and particularly Michael, who IIRC made the original reques= t: > > > The upcoming meetings ics calendar currently includes meeting im= portant > > dates (but the page does not show them). Lars points out that th= is is > > both inconsistent, and redundant with the separate important dat= es ics > > calendar we have. > > I'm okay with important dates being elsewhere. > What feed is that page? https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/ does not me= ntion > it. I get to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ > only by going into a specific meeting. You found where the link is homed:=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ https://datatracker/meeting will always have a link to that page. Greg - consider adding a link to=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ at=20 https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/ > > I think that ultimately my original complaint was that the upcoming inc= luded > the *meeting* things, which was redundant with having the meeting calen= dar loaded. > I think that this has been fixed now. Yes > > The primary utility I have with upcoming.ics is that it tells me (in va= rious > roles), when there are other (virtual) interim meetings. > > I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats and oth= er > related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). We could add these other things, but I think we would then need to add=20 filters so people could select the information that they really want. I understand the general deconflicting use case. It will likely be a stretch to get LLC board meetings and the like into=20 the datatracker - those are maintained in other systems. Area meetings on the other hand should just be interims - are they not=20 being organized that way? > Again, the goal is > either de-conflicting, or at least, consciously knowing about double bo= okings. > > > Would it be reasonable to remove the important dates from the > > upcoming.ics calendar? > > YES. > > > (Also note that the way these important dates are currently bein= g > > represented in both of the above .ics files is not right - it fa= ils to > > display in calendar.app, and causes other calendaring systems to= assert > > that the whole day is "Busy" - see > > https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/3161). > > Oh. That's really bad. > I guess that's because they are not associated with a specific time. > Maybe for some things, like Draft Deadline, a 5 minute event at 23:55:0= 0 > would work. That would also establish the deadline into the right time= zone. > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T cons= ulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide From nobody Wed Feb 3 09:38:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4236E3A0C37 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:38:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0aFYkxrCWSqY for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 458813A0C32 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id c4so124069wru.9 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 09:38:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=e5w91Y+vS/bwUhBZPdSo9L2wu70d3KcoY673rJUgzHM=; b=R7QmlEXpLDH8qxU/eshq1CtpegemyAnqMAUHBRUKXwrUjFwFZoh2eTD+7ywsUTDO1p Rt/59Aym2IdRooTlYb8XOLvvBfTM8HX8WllFH/kSvrLRv/CGqj/9yZXokWGPs/xrW/N8 yTOrxw6JFPGmKYyNWpkAfhcNkZYVAAKz54N1N7Z8qNq7/IkJXbgv3uvdXD3DC1hkbbX2 a+DIYsAppTmGqeH09cVQhRuKz3DtRLVA/mGdZCxqh/x2SWnAo1fKRbxuUoIaDz+Z34S4 Q4uYYAyc72biG39pD2dJOaeVFwZllBOAbv7QCL2MaZDRPm7sH/SbroGtYDVTlYhY4dPG dSWw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=e5w91Y+vS/bwUhBZPdSo9L2wu70d3KcoY673rJUgzHM=; b=qJ5VN7wo2HZJWa3GyCRbhZcP+kXBAtUFR5q1FQ8xBz5Dvs4zGEdy6gA7J4/98OCxyo aZzFTITmweDcIyPT8cw3nmQn/IhHMkDLdGo7vj6lQVzzTuuKwA2ZM16bx7xqHjufj/Y/ sJ5Q9whRAq7zC7Qaf3IfmGj3aUZAlC0d4AOnphsI5rjGm6ZC3k7RdjlRFbL2ObIhQfz9 BL69YnJJzuRB98duRb4PCcWiK+VKgzo+Zn7sBnCBUK4krx8umXS0tf1ZxtxbAqxyoKae 4GiuBVmZe1K9LNkKBIHx6xuNWGSOSzEriL3BXyRsyhri5gOSw+dGfE1gEt6/tKfJxb07 kvBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531rabqAuMEtNiDA71yjLF1eQ8WpZ5fbzPBc9T6Hohwcp4dpqGQY /mIQvM2VTRypRRCjWWh4BZTMo+8n75M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJznpiBXsoN1pEk4+xs/GSXkbjvrdV7kDp7blm2foe5jVlK/oBZgTmtceG35FGudW0tsssD62A== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e610:: with SMTP id p16mr4769745wrm.169.1612373879740; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 09:37:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:ef0b:f135:476c:47bc:345c? ([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:f135:476c:47bc:345c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e12sm4414744wrs.67.2021.02.03.09.37.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Feb 2021 09:37:58 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DFFEC644-A5E1-4BBE-8396-8FA7DECE2843"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:37:55 -0800 In-Reply-To: <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> Cc: Bob Hinden , Michael Richardson , tools-discuss , Robert Sparks To: Lars Eggert References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 17:38:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DFFEC644-A5E1-4BBE-8396-8FA7DECE2843 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lars, > On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:21 AM, Lars Eggert wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > On 2021-2-3, at 19:07, Michael Richardson = wrote: >> What feed is that page? https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/ does not = mention >> it. I get to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ >> only by going into a specific meeting. >=20 > It's on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ Thanks, I had not noticed that before. I subscribed, but am not seeing = anything on my calendar :-( Bob --Apple-Mail=_DFFEC644-A5E1-4BBE-8396-8FA7DECE2843 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAmAa33MACgkQrut0EXfn u6hltQf9F3h+LpG2uQfvnh5pTCUzr9Z83mZetP7xU16gureStHAEvLynoHZi9Xht i5HtUValFCZJ4RCVX6ldv8w8UG4FB+EAjtqu6y4TH7yIo2GQmnmaqXy0PvQglduX TyxuuFnkj5u9LqsUSNsEglL/k1BL3LYAbFf1c1ZGMBWCCcjOIDyhAv6lENwaEM8k y2hFCQvWOLcuUZxx9rIZt5WXUEtHwZf2qlIsUO2a7Gm5Ak58Amj1cH8bTXZRlHuV ozjEQCM1bAzD82+9XtLp5FhndVzmBYQFocgGMaRzu2+ah8J2JDZo3sjWqwvND7+k 845jzqWAirEpXBaLue2wmhFPbhUSJA== =boo+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_DFFEC644-A5E1-4BBE-8396-8FA7DECE2843-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 09:40:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631BC3A0CA0; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:40:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N4dfXU6U9M23; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:40:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BADC83A0C9F; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:40:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63E14600066; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:40:27 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1612374027; bh=WxtWPOxlabQz+kqd/V16exX1GIqAijysT8LUAnUb8ik=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=GVABrKMxtsURxM90MJSLwJ34qZ/yMdsGSavsXZcspK7pWDnYntw7YK0/CU9e2D8b9 UD/FF2UR2vHjwymyGpXQu6rxOr4ZMcH8RnmlRySM+WSGOnHFxQdnlYO3/Fg43JCEHq qcZF9q8GqhB3NXR8tGTcEa5LHQ3yjU8Rk9r8pmGE= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <57FD5D71-1D7D-456F-8A8C-A77028DFCFD1@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_28549AFC-4333-4F78-A26C-DE9833D82BF4"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:40:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss , Greg Wood To: Robert Sparks References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> X-MailScanner-ID: 63E14600066.AE92A X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 17:40:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_28549AFC-4333-4F78-A26C-DE9833D82BF4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2021-2-3, at 19:28, Robert Sparks wrote: > It will likely be a stretch to get LLC board meetings and the like = into the datatracker - those are maintained in other systems. FYI: The LLC meetings are linked from = https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/llc-board/meeting-info/ as = https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/ietf.org_vmffrv4hq14aqpedenuv5v4= 2hs%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics The IESG meetings are linked from = https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/ as = https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/ietf.org_egdabaf39ch5v8a13dt39mv= ee4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics The IAB meetings are linked from = https://www.iab.org/wiki/index.php/Agenda as = https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/ietf.org_k88jdeojmvn249q37ain3oj= epc%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_28549AFC-4333-4F78-A26C-DE9833D82BF4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAa4AoACgkQVLXDCb9w wVfO4g//WhPVuNi9VBPcuehup8/z7SNpDLF+HIvdKpe6GevbbIHK3bko+6/UmO1U bsNfD78EurYh5Dytnt7SSSjrIkWZpTcghVQe8wWGVvNVcpwKEXVjTSND0cMy6UCj LbWOAnGDLmUoFsn8S5WEJ5gU76l2NVAFApVQ86HqlwgVpY/lN5HsHW4OjRwIhYbz qB5LHCUA747SuiPkwm/bAH8fA8emc+BQzQ1S0HTiAiNYkeeSjb4CQmz0ts7dZOBP N6L5bqDSeYa5E5pwihGYqeZQOEQe9WNh0s9eNJdyh7E2fqVfzH4vY3PQDr3CkEhM uOdDrcBDFzvuVpFgOeaoccXRj1nKYVazLbgAUgRHWegQSE3WeAEyOdNHi/Ytlbiu /elfoNvPqIKTBqM8k8MPZVLZAfUeoOP3ZEpzb8gRALLyaZUjRf74JLIYSZFcbFTM BtG21tHgBaYt2KDnqsLFXI1apbK8WMxtBOBSLF+lyukYJB/VXq9b+kJDF6Fnzehw GmPiczL3GPyUce4jkaME8TH1YAogJif0yHc9M/DGdY0RNijJV9Z84X50s0/rNIDi LeXnQMDVaZDxlRhIGU/qkV/e549d0PGxzhjKWkihICjsV85vku6i2EX+enrB0aKs Pkh9LgUvec9vxmNA4PGWMyAkZB9GWZ7IW7RgaGPpdDjdR51neyM= =cyaV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_28549AFC-4333-4F78-A26C-DE9833D82BF4-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 09:42:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578C63A0CB2 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:42:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lx7blHS7FWtZ for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3793A3A0CB1 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:f575:9f9b:e4d:f61a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 251EB600066; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:42:43 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1612374163; bh=bZX1KcN2YoVqz3uBg/VD1cDCkOUMbqMq7iG8z4XhWIA=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=Q4sMR0pHV9plbq3tf5sf8/3NdSAcFqlHszGb7TamrKJBPn0s7QMqXAu3n7KKjylvO CAWgsY84vLU5TiYEiFet13OswGZcUlQwarKnJSwnkWPbGox2i5d/LCteP6vreXaG1H dlNu8wPTHBafHzGkLf3Y8Ue0ezh5L+/PhP525Fr8= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8E04C0B0-704B-4290-A720-ABDC6A47D451"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:42:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss , Robert Sparks To: Bob Hinden References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> X-MailScanner-ID: 251EB600066.A384D X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 17:42:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8E04C0B0-704B-4290-A720-ABDC6A47D451 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2021-2-3, at 19:37, Bob Hinden wrote: > I subscribed, but am not seeing anything on my calendar :-( same here. I wonder if the iCal file is corrupt? (It's not empty at least.) Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_8E04C0B0-704B-4290-A720-ABDC6A47D451 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAa4JIACgkQVLXDCb9w wVe4JA/+PnTG0IMsyBUnvNInlZD8a1vooyp02Y3Vse5AphkehvaPyBWYKOkFPH+n BQfFQXEwJsJ+8M0h4yk2INXkioXUKWRV0B1bUK9FbUXeUhMERqiBaeVBVpm2uFKS Or9dfUSOPrRS7GDdWObUMiM6cgNLLoVVXbIy4k/I6xTiJ6gKmo4p87l30/r0CTCL U0l9J9GggoyzxwDd5d55iFplxgpEeFe4RS6cXomys4mFsBNHB+vB/IPL6LCtCRmX uVUXc17LMde9yBiPE56sIUbqsiVCg19fs3eUSxNJkHT7rGLjYa9tzFzcSiCbbXns f2CqUHdC6dAsUUgFMwMtPkkiaC8Kau19/JJA72lAH34FoFsToMURRsKr96sriJmw YV9G0ehMAjVhYjBwltzDcMuCNd95TmopIHkYo1gvxQ8L5qpSFQUjE8OvP1IfCy77 OmQ9Vn5LGxfdCNOg882TVnJsH5NYtUU4mjayyl6xyh+3ZsjH9FahPAPg90d6ydYs QN3eIF8cacPQ5VD/Dk3JuBnvH8Iy5Aso1loPZK/lQSTJpbN/rZnAjbtwsgakjEf3 vgo6wsAgx3q5FLvPrb96U4IKqc1vcX8/1SW8OFL8epOzjd0+CY3rwqtxfTxonQzf PYj1QwJT9gXGWPS7yt+dqjoMvLWrhW++5YBB5uD9HjjRV+DNhBg= =PIuZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8E04C0B0-704B-4290-A720-ABDC6A47D451-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 09:58:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3B93A0D04 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:58:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.281 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_TEMPERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EXPG7oPU1RiH for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18A883A0CE5 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 09:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 113HwTDp002263 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:58:30 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612375110; bh=fxB3PfSXlLHKAGsDZnD8Vg3o5Gq1LYyFFFN17Jl5NZ0=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=c80ZlEmrr9jUw++SuM4yqyL3wGI8eDZJQKHsO/EF0Li8KxV7gRNJmrUPMd0r+Kyb2 evGb/y9Y9QWq6R0jMvbBgRcdLbg4Hlew/zFYQGOw92OQbQTYsJuFbLUtppFpTDsROD pxkpY0r+7sWJv9Sys3jdz8MSM6sscmXxj/ARcuPA= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Lars Eggert , Bob Hinden Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:58:24 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 17:58:49 -0000 It has the same problem as discussed at https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/3161#comment:3 I'm looking into it. What's currently there looks like this: BEGIN:VEVENT UID:ietf-110-cutoffresched-2021-02-10 SUMMARY:IETF 110: Cut-off Reschedule Requests CLASS:PUBLIC DTSTART;VALUE=DATE:20210210 DTSTAMP:20210110T230331Z DESCRIPTION:Cut-off date for requests to reschedule Working Group or BOF meetings UTC 23:59 END:VEVENT But that's clearly not making Calendar.app happy. If someone with good ical skills has time to look and suggest what the form of the event _should_ be, please do so. RjS On 2/3/21 11:42 AM, Lars Eggert wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-2-3, at 19:37, Bob Hinden wrote: >> I subscribed, but am not seeing anything on my calendar :-( > same here. I wonder if the iCal file is corrupt? (It's not empty at least.) > > Thanks, > Lars > From nobody Wed Feb 3 14:17:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A183A127D for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:17:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AZWOxc5bIHTe for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF2873A1278 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 113MGvvg094170 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:16:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612390618; bh=FegXIKlBp3D7wqP8ZNwUip8Gg/58gx5N46A/D27qpLw=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=I8nMAUtY+hlBWahzyeOgCtmGguGuciZ+zdVnWGwQ6FoYjBg0z/mqbPXz6dF5BJCgi Ma131tXfc3jne3mrf7a40jEzEH7URS3Ow0G/JU4RRI35ve+ru6Kk2KwKMxqpOZijVu p8midMhbCADDgklu5+gXWJEqXs2JIzSS71viWCEI= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:16:52 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 22:17:00 -0000 So, the offending bit is this: BEGIN:VEVENT^M UID:ietf-110-opensched-2020-12-07 SUMMARY:IETF 110: Scheduling Opens CLASS:PUBLIC DTSTART;VALUE=3DDATE:20201207 DTSTAMP:20210202T191034Z DESCRIPTION:Working Group and BOF scheduling begins To request a Working Group session, use the IETF Meeting Session Request = Tool: https://datatracker.ietf.org/secr/sreq/ If you are working on a BoF request, it is highly recommended to tell=20 the IESG now by sending an email to iesg@ietf.org to get advance help with the=20 request. END:VEVENT The folding of DESCRIPTION doesn't match what the RFC allows, and=20 Calendar.app does not forgive it. (But doesn't error...) It's interesting that https://icalendar.org/validator.html doesn't=20 complain about it - I suspect there is something really subtle that=20 breaks what implementations would otherwise try to be really forgiving=20 about. We have other places where we're violating the RFC currently that=20 Calendar.app does forgive. In any case, the fix will be to get the folding right. I've also spotted how to make these events transparent to busy searches, = and will add that. RjS On 2/3/21 11:58 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: > It has the same problem as discussed at=20 > https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/3161#comment:3 > > I'm looking into it. > > What's currently there looks like this: > > BEGIN:VEVENT > UID:ietf-110-cutoffresched-2021-02-10 > SUMMARY:IETF 110: Cut-off Reschedule Requests > CLASS:PUBLIC > DTSTART;VALUE=3DDATE:20210210 > DTSTAMP:20210110T230331Z > DESCRIPTION:Cut-off date for requests to reschedule Working Group or=20 > BOF meetings UTC 23:59 > END:VEVENT > > But that's clearly not making Calendar.app happy. > > If someone with good ical skills has time to look and suggest what the = > form of the event _should_ be, please do so. > > RjS > > On 2/3/21 11:42 AM, Lars Eggert wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On 2021-2-3, at 19:37, Bob Hinden wrote: >>> I subscribed, but am not seeing anything on my calendar :-( >> same here. I wonder if the iCal file is corrupt? (It's not empty at=20 >> least.) >> >> Thanks, >> Lars >> > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to:=20 > datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe):=20 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Wed Feb 3 14:20:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4493A0045 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:20:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sVHf18qPoU9F for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:20:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 651F23A003E for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:20:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 113MKXbA095492 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:20:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612390833; bh=zvb713MNfHDC0mYMQgUthDV2ebdAZWmyqaKcI1QqaAQ=; h=Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=l6FomUq+BrFVhr+Ib4SQzYRliczghz06RwZkj5Q3VKw53GgBJNZ3MeiitIoIi3XaP eoruFehcfzbUxANOzcyamgdsIu6dPsYwTEkWJHUZeqjrkFSXc66RT7prqJTG4bXCtu 7zDlnAzEI0wLXr8152RgGg4fST5co4wSKBu5u0tg= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain From: Robert Sparks To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> Message-ID: <1661eef5-94fb-d70d-1f9c-a9ef023317fa@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:20:28 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 22:20:36 -0000 Just to stave off speculation - that ^M on the first line is bogus - all of the lines in the file end with CRLF. I was cutting from an editor that showed the CR as ^M, and manually cleaned them up for this message. I missed one. On 2/3/21 4:16 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > BEGIN:VEVENT^M > UID:ietf-110-opensched-2020-12-07 > SUMMARY:IETF 110: Scheduling Opens > CLASS:PUBLIC > DTSTART;VALUE=DATE:20201207 > DTSTAMP:20210202T191034Z > DESCRIPTION:Working Group and BOF scheduling begins > To request a Working Group session, use the IETF Meeting Session > Request Tool: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/secr/sreq/ > If you are working on a BoF request, it is highly recommended to tell > the IESG > now by sending an email to iesg@ietf.org to get advance help with the > request. > END:VEVENT From nobody Wed Feb 3 18:16:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A21A3A10F6 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:16:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ROcL0PlArlfH for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:16:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A4F43A10F0 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41751389AB; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:19:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 2MCVt1D48TfV; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:19:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DDE6389A8; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:19:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E1148F; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:16:23 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Bob Hinden cc: Lars Eggert , tools-discuss , Robert Sparks In-Reply-To: References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 21:16:23 -0500 Message-ID: <32720.1612404983@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 02:16:30 -0000 Bob Hinden wrote: >> On Feb 3, 2021, at 9:21 AM, Lars Eggert wrote: >> >> Signed PGP part On 2021-2-3, at 19:07, Michael Richardson >> wrote: >>> What feed is that page? https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/ does not >>> mention it. I get to >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ only by going >>> into a specific meeting. >> >> It's on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/important-dates/ > Thanks, I had not noticed that before. I subscribed, but am not seeing > anything on my calendar :-( I see stuff via Google Calendar (of which I'm less and less fond of) From nobody Wed Feb 3 18:17:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5FC3A10FC for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:17:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zZLWY-t7iTDb for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 233AE3A10FA for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160F9389C4; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:20:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id VUVIug-WmMIg; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:20:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A1F389AB; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:20:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F060848F; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:17:44 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Lars Eggert , Robert Sparks , tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <2645AC62-9340-4562-8323-50AB0ACBC301@eggert.org> References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <2645AC62-9340-4562-8323-50AB0ACBC301@eggert.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 21:17:44 -0500 Message-ID: <573.1612405064@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 02:17:48 -0000 Lars Eggert wrote: > On 2021-2-3, at 19:07, Michael Richardson > wrote: >> I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats and >> other related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). Again, the >> goal is either de-conflicting, or at least, consciously knowing about >> double bookings. > there are separate iCals for different meeting series already (IESG, > IAB, LLC, etc.) I'd really like to focus upcoming.ics on WG and RG > meetings and not lump everything into one iCal file. > Or if that's what is wanted, create a new all.ics file that has all the > stuff. I'm okay with "all.ics": the purpose is to avoid conflicts. From nobody Wed Feb 3 18:19:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80293A10FC; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:19:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6zVYxo2s1nqa; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:19:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B19A63A10FE; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:19:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42AA7389C4; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:22:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id i17RhYmFN3lF; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:22:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4116C389AB; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:22:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9833D48F; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 21:19:22 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Robert Sparks , tools-discuss , Lars Eggert , Greg Wood In-Reply-To: References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 21:19:22 -0500 Message-ID: <947.1612405162@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 02:19:27 -0000 Robert Sparks wrote: >> I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats and >> other related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). > We could add these other things, but I think we would then need to add > filters so people could select the information that they really want. > I understand the general deconflicting use case. > It will likely be a stretch to get LLC board meetings and the like into > the datatracker - those are maintained in other systems. > Area meetings on the other hand should just be interims - are they not > being organized that way? No, because not all area meetings are WGs. IoTDIR, RtgDIR. I also got push back about asking RtgArea "Chats" being in a calendar. The result was conflicts. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ From nobody Wed Feb 3 19:32:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F8B3A0AB8; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 19:32:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Executive Director To: "IETF Announcement List" Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.25.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org Message-ID: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 19:32:42 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 03:32:43 -0000 In October-November 2020 the IETF Administration LLC ran a survey of I-D authors on the formats and tools that they use. This survey was issued to a total of 6037 email addresses, with that list built from the addresses of everyone who submitted an I-D, or was listed as an author, in the five years previous. 718 responses were received, giving a margin of error of +/- 3.43%. We wish to thank all of you that took the time to reply to this survey. The results of this survey are now available as a basic web report: https://ql.tc/T0WvDV Additionally, the IETF Executive Director and Temporary RFC Series Project Manager have produced a detailed report of analysis and recommendations: https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/REPORT__Survey_of_I-D_Authors_on_Formats_and_Tools.pdf I recommend that any discussion on this subject takes place on either rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org or tools-discuss@ietf.org as appropriate. Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions. -- Jay Daley IETF Executive Director exec-director@ietf.org From nobody Thu Feb 4 07:02:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A9A3A1574 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 07:02:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D9xeDqv0q441 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 07:01:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D94403A1579 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 07:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id t126so994569qke.11 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 07:01:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=C+BeLZv+28dz2eVUSw1gmHCoMbXkoH49XwwXGCyPcR4=; b=TYOv8nLOJaAoasMSs9ShaJ+MOSB2vrewnsh28vVNtV1gGsBszDpdFwka3YFsZhUnPu k3N5dtQTuS+rpMwKSecL0YJqB9iaxwVJBpxwLv+Rw/t6xOBwTyAaPlIiuqYUU9Azv30w hGOu5DshdgN7p+Q70U9PTip/F/ZFFMXw2TBSEQ4gIiVUwYzDXFVYAmphPhEnZpHtQP5D HhVaZl+wR5r42+UBXtywNyoKa4earOF11IcspDp/ZehUgcZ9f85N4ep41VxTN7LQ3AlI dTo7evfT586YulaaREmgI9xWFheYSMsB7RUgbOt4W0N8aJMaj+VLn2MBsZKQKP66WXGZ F7ig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=C+BeLZv+28dz2eVUSw1gmHCoMbXkoH49XwwXGCyPcR4=; b=AxQOpAbte+MPt/7ry1QqmW1v8qksbjmux6D/5FxxIFT0DYig547maf2U5gc1h6+jtN GhmqjpG2q8srHevBffKGt7gC6B1lD0z3GHhVQyLHGZGG9FvTUbJMW8xLV8KIRpwc/nts KtvZCQidZK9il6vqEhPIyQsjye+IPjMl90EBPHHDNuyny5/7jsOPDWAlm8d3xy8VsFqA fPK3DvQZ3TjRfYk9JMZLu+loAUqw98dPKREDzU6GUJLgxU6wpY+at3WGJ3fYyZKDMbJG kjMcPZgAjS5R5anIc/c7iWnqNu2rqIrC5zyMTyP//9dpi4l+loVhWc2g0S2fJ7JVo9dl OJqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530mFvmF5EdhBlfnCASlIig8bzTaHqumVAT7XICsMjO8VWpwAjYt bdjt3lsg/BCWf5hqAYgEBjYFeHVPN80/suyHFIOBGIkwZ6IktQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx5tQfxYtcfCOYbwsYAcMQu1utPjoS9/isL92zc6psXcyYSjdam4PlHdG873kr2bnKv26SPEqLuXqhW3MhaPhw= X-Received: by 2002:a37:67d4:: with SMTP id b203mr7986130qkc.483.1612450917823; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 07:01:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 10:01:42 -0500 Message-ID: To: RFC Interest , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002cb66005ba83fceb" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 15:02:00 -0000 --0000000000002cb66005ba83fceb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jay and John, Thanks for this survey and report. I would like to start a conversation/consensus call on Recommendation 9: > Recommendation 9: A significant minority want to use Markdown or similar and a strategic decision is needed on whether or not this should be =E2=80=9Cofficially=E2=80=9D supported either in some stages or in the full= end-to-end authoring process. (see also Q20) I'm a part of that minority. I love Kramdown and use it a lot, and would love to see: 1. "Official support" for the Kramdown toolset rather than just appearing on the experimental tools page. 2. For idnits to support Kramdown source, so you don't have to do a conversion in order to perform idnits checking. I know that I could script this, and perhaps will when I start my next draft ... :-), but native support would be better. 3. Being able to use Kramdown as a draft submission format, rather than converting to XML and/or plaintext for submission. I'd be happy with 1, but even happier with 2 and/or 3 as well. Thanks again, Andy --0000000000002cb66005ba83fceb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jay and John,

Thanks f= or this survey and report.

I would like to start a= conversation/consensus call on Recommendation 9:

= > Recommendation 9: A significant minority want to use Markdown or simil= ar and a strategic decision is needed on whether or not this should be =E2= =80=9Cofficially=E2=80=9D supported either in some stages or in the full en= d-to-end authoring process. (see also Q20)

I&#= 39;m a part of that minority. I love Kramdown and use it a lot, and would l= ove to see:

1. "Official support" for th= e Kramdown toolset rather than just appearing on the experimental tools pag= e.

2. For idnits=C2=A0to support Kramdown source, = so you don't have to do a conversion in order to perform=C2=A0idnits=C2= =A0checking. I know that I could script this, and perhaps will when I start= my next draft ... :-), but native support would be better.

<= /div>
3. Being able to use Kramdown as a draft submission format, rathe= r than converting=C2=A0to XML and/or plaintext for submission.
I'd be happy with 1, but even happier with 2 and/or 3 as w= ell.

Thanks again,
Andy

--0000000000002cb66005ba83fceb-- From nobody Thu Feb 4 07:44:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C493A15D3 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 07:44:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kSdBE_bzbdf1 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 07:44:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26E363A15D7 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 07:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DWjX26jgZzysG; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:44:02 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:44:02 +0100 Cc: RFC Interest , tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634146242.331705-476dd43bc38b0a1452fc9997d1852aee Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "Andrew G. Malis" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 15:44:08 -0000 >=20 > 1. "Official support" for the Kramdown toolset rather than just = appearing on the experimental tools page. >=20 > 2. For idnits to support Kramdown source, so you don't have to do a = conversion in order to perform idnits checking. I know that I could = script this, and perhaps will when I start my next draft ... :-), but = native support would be better. >=20 > 3. Being able to use Kramdown as a draft submission format, rather = than converting to XML and/or plaintext for submission. >=20 > I'd be happy with 1, but even happier with 2 and/or 3 as well. I=E2=80=99m a bit ambiguous about =E2=80=9Cofficial support=E2=80=9D. =20= This is a bit like the transition from an individual draft to a working = group draft=E2=80=A6 Today, at 10:24 CET, Martin Thomson filed an issue, and he provided a = fix at 10:27. At 11:04, version 1.3.26 with that fix was pushed to rubygems.org so = people can `gem update` to that. I=E2=80=99d like to keep the kramdown-rfc process lightweight enough so = we can have these turnaround times. But sure, making the tool available on the tools/datatracker web = presences and via the submission tool would be helpful. I=E2=80=99m not so sure about (2). This would require idnits to do some = second-guessing of what kramdown=E2=80=94rfc does, and would make it = harder to evolve kramdown-rfc. Why not run the authoring tool and then = idnits? Right now, there isn=E2=80=99t even a way to run idnits on the = XML, maybe we could address that first.=20 Maybe I should put a simple CLI option for running idnits into the = `kdrfc` tool... Now https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/issues/96 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Feb 4 08:26:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313853A168D; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 08:26:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OMNggwu1Jcs9; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 08:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18EE93A1657; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 08:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DWkSd3vTXzygL; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 17:26:09 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 17:26:09 +0100 Cc: RFC Interest , tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634148769.040815-fb00195119750488f05bd53ff7bffc2e Reply-To: rfc-markdown@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> To: "Andrew G. Malis" , rfc-markdown@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 16:26:18 -0000 On 2021-02-04, at 16:44, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Maybe I should put a simple CLI option for running idnits into the = `kdrfc` tool... > Now https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/issues/96 1.3.27: Add -i option to kdrfc, run idnits Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Feb 4 08:40:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6439F3A1653; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 08:39:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.281 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P20KbWwxpOfF; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 08:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A42923A0977; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 08:39:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 114Gdgje048687 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Feb 2021 10:39:43 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612456784; bh=hWHrC4T2/9WldJRUYHZZnynG+EeETDB7rDokQcXV410=; h=Subject:From:To:Reply-To:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=DuPA9rFqRjJGLZCODuRflGf3jbDsBh0Z0kTVSohX7Y6awMMCDqwu6JwVrgTqQ65ge VLsgKaYB+e6E137cT1awpVFmyqXvMPqRyVK5dvJVA2XKtIXBF66RjKxqNbg17vAXFA bcS/Li3MLFDYWgXWzQ9LLlAaeYvQXRs/QoRBv1F0= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain From: Robert Sparks To: codesprints@ietf.org, wgchairs@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, tools-discuss Reply-To: codesprints@ietf.org References: <9270c846-a25b-00ab-a2d8-f705757ceae4@nostrum.com> Message-ID: <2894965b-8c0b-cc86-7805-0b4af147164d@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 10:39:37 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9270c846-a25b-00ab-a2d8-f705757ceae4@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [codesprints] Codesprint before IETF 110 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 16:39:53 -0000 Last call for input - I will move forward with scheduling tomorrow. Again, please consider joining. I would particularly like to talk to anyone that has strong skills in building docker containers and wrangling github's APIs at one of these upcoming sprints. RjS On 1/29/21 10:38 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: > (If you want to reply to this, please be careful to honor the > Reply-To: codesprints@ietf.org header). > > We are considering holding one or more CodeSprints well before IETF > 110 instead of (or perhaps in addition to) the Saturday before the > meeting. > > If you've never been to an IETF CodeSprint, please consider joining > for a couple of hours, even if only to learn about how you can > contribute. > > The doodle is at > https://doodle.com/poll/vz2uh2wez79e8xf8?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link. > > Please note that it offers many more options than it initially > displays. The doodle includes the Saturday before the meeting if that > remains your preference. > > Please let me know what date/times would work for you as soon as you can. > > RjS > > > _______________________________________________ > codesprints mailing list > codesprints@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codesprints From nobody Thu Feb 4 11:39:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B1C3A1773; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:39:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yzf_ZSpUBT2H; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:39:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x829.google.com (mail-qt1-x829.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::829]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27D5F3A1771; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:39:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x829.google.com with SMTP id c1so3330097qtc.1; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 11:39:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+EGXbx0Tj/rMB/YDqic+Y9eIN7UBz+GlYYmNar112cM=; b=QeCmnvKCaSwAFQqYzAsPo1xY6fNSYOhivhWeQud3pEay9Dr4YQU9pyTVk/ZykmTnt9 s5nCe8DdyPj7SesOyPHdRO0FLpa1yp6q5b+ae/nR6ZfY2C9uf6pg668L9EG6tud3v8gD LTJ2O87c2ICMl23zkp7SKKGXgNBaBycqG9Qi91K+jl08xwFas+HX5cpHe0hYuryhfbce fT4SIauRpE5xGR2BQFaK/RVAyW7qHHdBzYCKF6dWHCPH+6pG2aj4IZvsQFl5QeyUUlhs aa3H/deerlHNGk73omZWgR0e4+LDugvcADI2ThUSnaTLAZHIt08HcxbfvdJKU16yMmX2 T9Tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+EGXbx0Tj/rMB/YDqic+Y9eIN7UBz+GlYYmNar112cM=; b=aLZFmmEhLYjlsYVXeuGUBaZLEEm+CscVBDWhGodAjTxx4CP1q4aNc1Hpq68JUQg3mf JaIk7YW/yQtiINVnQe/GFhowbBvfgp7+PakX9pZ6jldHzrm+ldJcZtHAFcbR4l9piBnR hz6zNXUslGGJv+buwBve6V3gcOXscgnLh7jfCTbpR2NOwjUflez7TYNwg1y4oEiVQqKm mwUCRjSJL6qSChmn7aTyLs5lPVh+J6l3I29kt8SZnsUZEtLplCIFoi0md77yN5y12ks2 Ie03ZbsMcVRrY3gDEKnqK3qXyNEHgcN61pL+BMkhjUZNKmRwAwHJTeVqPlAAsYk+r0aa k64Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53134nbXzKUtHDOwxucHRD23avD+UHa2m0dSZvvPsIwJqR9ypD0v fI4m7spwW0IAvrbqVsbk/j9SWNBTfnIlo5hLmtDY9gF40xg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJysfP/sFBTBBynQHsCa3cu+pwtZXiag10OzhUCOyO1u5p8FhWMaWmmKN61oIxesSN/5ldX7BLZVS/etQ4a5b0A= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:100b:: with SMTP id z11mr1208999qti.60.1612467568491; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 11:39:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:39:12 -0500 Message-ID: To: RFC Markdown Cc: RFC Interest , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a1c14205ba87dc41" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 19:39:36 -0000 --000000000000a1c14205ba87dc41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten, Awesome, thanks! Cheers, Andy On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:26 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-02-04, at 16:44, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > Maybe I should put a simple CLI option for running idnits into the > `kdrfc` tool... > > Now https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/issues/96 > > 1.3.27: Add -i option to kdrfc, run idnits > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > --000000000000a1c14205ba87dc41 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Carsten,

Awesome, thanks!
Cheers,
Andy


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 = at 11:26 AM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.or= g> wrote:
On 2021-02-04, at 16:44, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>
> Maybe I should put a simple CLI option for running idnits into the `kd= rfc` tool...
> Now https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/= issues/96

1.3.27: Add -i option to kdrfc, run idnits

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

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Malis" CC: RFC Interest , tools-discuss Thread-Topic: [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools Thread-Index: AQHW+wa28cq1s3l6BESf8p5jp73gdKpIIxEAgAAFBoA= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:02:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.45.21010502 authentication-results: tzi.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;tzi.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=adobe.com; x-originating-ip: [24.0.194.111] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fe226ffb-05aa-44e8-99fa-08d8c9501e7a x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR02MB6516: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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b=INjBHmyTUPsSUiG8kCOVE29cIfxzZtoU6ckGAViuRTlgXmPPjRweb4IwE/TO5eQlRp0RCga1+YqciQ8XhHaiW/yj2d6R3NXI9D8q+BLBr+dELXFkK9OoXYMtlFAHDOHxywp7+O55zGjmKNvDxa9CYdLwbc7O5yGfVQVJcGA90p8539f4RU0HZ0TjpV9npF7e89IgcAlFdECdogLd4qtYaHljrCkTg+wPVlHu+xBJGm45RiEolyEcovCKq1gT898r4sEEZMxxSY9IjGOpDXp6+NUEhuc8wBPlqcqzD9jaH+jOpnzOcnzveBEk489JuzLkmq4Qa3fVquXXfm9avmJwHQ== Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 04 Feb 2021 21:28:41 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 617DC6D625A0; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:28:40 -0500 (EST) Date: 4 Feb 2021 16:28:40 -0500 Message-Id: <20210204212841.617DC6D625A0@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Cc: lrosenth@adobe.com In-Reply-To: Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Cleverness: minimal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:28:47 -0000 In article you write: >Supporting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would you support a non-standard version of it? CommonMark >(https://commonmark.org/) is the relevant "specification" for markdown. Kramdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that promotes its own >flavor... People are using at least two slightly incompatible markdown tools to prepare I-D's, kramdown and mmark. If we're going to adopt markdown, we need at least to decide what we mean by markdown. I don't have any strong opnions about how to get to that point. R's, John From nobody Thu Feb 4 13:32:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9E13A185B for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:32:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.913 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.913 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FSL_BULK_SIG=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=1.886, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.922, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wDFgJbbFMUdF for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:32:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 359763A1857 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:32:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id y14so5217946ljn.8 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 13:32:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tVSgfGEouqyjPDQysHghrMeRhMwcoqk/CweVTDE11x0=; b=mSDx7iDJlIOCGYlVLe+AIHhriRinF0+WyeHszeVwLdBGn3GzMfzXIND4CHyX7a6z3f vYYOasL+ykANGdh6VGkyJd/+e8jNsa3Id6kiRNI7uau4RGGWiawQ1yGtLbRl3erlr2fo qjtNEYXX1Uc3sG9ACyCflsAYTC1wgaVsCqeVcu7YjWuMnn6B//lYv02ELWsIE0EDFLgG lY43cT+3PkKjqXkzXwrq4uwhUQKbE8FYY7/tdeBXzACB7/cXgWPtlHjbRBRXK+uDQRsz eMj7uPKolky0UnOUCsBNfRpCuluAAI9XTIMR0tqBbi0kIJbJ9B18WWhw0NGvHYGkYjKf QoFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tVSgfGEouqyjPDQysHghrMeRhMwcoqk/CweVTDE11x0=; b=GqWDuGKKNInMuKrzUrk4JjQ7YvSy6ugQQtY3DuZjAk0x1r9oujBi95XpuV223pEcyM XFDey8biVxymwwNiXn3KB7x1eih8R56iOICbKsoWq9q0UJxzLa5GyVkRK3vMAsXWuepC y1Lny4JJ6BLIKSeUtpnH+X5ZnzcH3XoHvkgl+fc0M3jY+wMbSvDy2uey+UF/phb1aplV 5xLkPubYmTKE1Wv364jM08s956507GcnbUsRDCsq8DVHKxiqCoLarnFfnHcNPcs3e0Zu N7BofKG6nOYpgAUMyTaU6Ri3CQ94AT6eEOcHtUGBC+3SHTcZYq2iel20eOXpO7P+rbh3 hmDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Nz3j/6ENyCuLUhMwLLsyBAgAbRUP0L9sJymQ4L3E1hFW3pak4 I1Pic9V9lOEHKVt7b/s/gSsAuonoe68P/krg/myiRQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmqzfRIhI2Aq5O6OMmcy34Ixggm9KjwNYu71zHQ9OFyBgwX8J+GVbz6y9asqbm6KfjiWbXFJD2QhZAO3hagNw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:952:: with SMTP id 79mr756746ljj.289.1612474325185; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 13:32:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210204212841.617DC6D625A0@ary.local> In-Reply-To: <20210204212841.617DC6D625A0@ary.local> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:31:29 -0800 Message-ID: To: John Levine Cc: tools-discuss , lrosenth@adobe.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005ccdaa05ba896fc3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:32:09 -0000 --0000000000005ccdaa05ba896fc3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:28 PM John Levine wrote: > In article you write: > >Supporting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would you > support a non-standard version of it? CommonMark > >(https://commonmark.org/) is the relevant "specification" for markdown. > Kramdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that promotes its own > >flavor... > > People are using at least two slightly incompatible markdown tools to > prepare I-D's, kramdown and mmark. > > If we're going to adopt markdown, we need at least to decide what we mean > by markdown. I don't > have any strong opnions about how to get to that point. > +1 -Ekr --0000000000005ccdaa05ba896fc3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:28 PM John L= evine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:=
In article <= E77A02FF-4DF8-4030-BC77-4355A705E00E@adobe.com> you write:<= br> >Supporting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would y= ou support a non-standard version of it?=C2=A0 =C2=A0CommonMark
>(https://commonmark.org/) is the relevant "specification" f= or markdown.=C2=A0 Kramdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that pro= motes its own
>flavor...

People are using at least two slightly incompatible markdown tools to prepa= re I-D's, kramdown and mmark.

If we're going to adopt markdown, we need at least to decide what we me= an by markdown.=C2=A0 I don't
have any strong opnions about how to get to that point.

+1

-Ekr
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Malis" CC: RFC Interest , tools-discuss Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools Thread-Index: AQHW+z5MzPkQy+zWvUuGiRo/I72S3w== Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:40:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.45.21011103 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <562C17EE4DD8C9479EAB5CF5F6F4A9B2@akamai.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.369, 18.0.737 definitions=2021-02-04_12:2021-02-04, 2021-02-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=624 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102040132 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.369, 18.0.737 definitions=2021-02-04_12:2021-02-04, 2021-02-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=542 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102040132 X-Agari-Authentication-Results: mx.akamai.com; spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.34) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:40:18 -0000 PiAgIFN1cHBvcnRpbmcgTWFya2Rvd24gYXMgYW4gaW5wdXQgb3B0aW9uIGlzIGEgZ29vZCBpZGVh IC0gYnV0IHdoeSB3b3VsZCB5b3Ugc3VwcG9ydCBhIG5vbi1zdGFuZGFyZCB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIGl0 Pw0KDQpEZXBsb3llZCB1c2FnZSB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIElFVEYgYW5kIEktRCBhdXRob3JzIGlzIGEg Z29vZCByZWFzb24uDQoNCj4gICBDb21tb25NYXJrIChodHRwczovL2NvbW1vbm1hcmsub3JnICkg aXMgdGhlIHJlbGV2YW50ICJzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9uIiBmb3IgbWFya2Rvd24uDQoNCldlIHVzZSBr cmFtZG93biB3aXRoIGEgcGFydGljdWxhciBzdHlsZS4gIEkgd29uZGVyIGlmIENvbW1vbk1hcmsg d291bGQgY2F1c2UgaXNzdWVzLCBvciBpZiB3ZSBjb3VsZCBqdXN0IGRlY2xhcmUgdXNpbmcgaXQu DQogDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Feb 4 13:51:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C573A188B for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:51:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FSL_BULK_SIG=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=1.886, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.922, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1PWQ-AWc9L-t; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF3AC3A1888; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:51:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: <44B40EDF-A2DB-42E7-9B28-65500354CF14@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C5BA470-FB19-4EF9-BE04-39C4D54AFEA8" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 10:51:15 +1300 In-Reply-To: <20210204212841.617DC6D625A0@ary.local> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, lrosenth@adobe.com To: John Levine References: <20210204212841.617DC6D625A0@ary.local> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:51:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9C5BA470-FB19-4EF9-BE04-39C4D54AFEA8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 5/02/2021, at 10:28 AM, John Levine wrote: >=20 > In article you write: >> Supporting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would = you support a non-standard version of it? CommonMark >> (https://commonmark.org/) is the relevant "specification" for = markdown. Kramdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that promotes = its own >> flavor... >=20 > People are using at least two slightly incompatible markdown tools to = prepare I-D's, kramdown and mmark. >=20 > If we're going to adopt markdown, we need at least to decide what we = mean by markdown. I don't > have any strong opnions about how to get to that point. I'm concerned that we might be in a position where we can only adopt = markdown by extending it so far beyond common usage that we create a = unique IETF markup language. We=E2=80=99re probably not too far from = that position already. Jay >=20 > R's, > John >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_9C5BA470-FB19-4EF9-BE04-39C4D54AFEA8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 5/02/2021, at 10:28 AM, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> = wrote:

In article <E77A02FF-4DF8-4030-BC77-4355A705E00E@adobe.com> you = write:
Supporting = Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would you support a = non-standard version of it?   CommonMark
(https://commonmark.org/) = is the relevant "specification" for markdown.  Kramdown, on the = other hand, is a specific tool that promotes its own
flavor...

People = are using at least two slightly incompatible markdown tools to prepare = I-D's, kramdown and mmark.

If we're going = to adopt markdown, we need at least to decide what we mean by markdown. =  I don't
have any strong opnions about how to get to = that point.

I'm concerned that we might be in a position where = we can only adopt markdown by extending it so far beyond common usage = that we create a unique IETF markup language.  We=E2=80=99re = probably not too far from that position already.

Jay


R's,
John

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for = discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* = Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other = bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including = how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss


-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_9C5BA470-FB19-4EF9-BE04-39C4D54AFEA8-- From nobody Thu Feb 4 13:59:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CCA73A188F for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:59:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.913 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.913 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FSL_BULK_SIG=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=1.886, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.922, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XgnKMdq6OtEF for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 341AA3A11E2 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id u25so6919761lfc.2 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 13:59:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ReNXVSANZJB+4lbCNP1CQ1+wh9vdDwQbj2j6CI2OkhA=; b=Czi3NgAyrT31XSlbqplfgK5az3vUzpa8po9DHwaXrva118efq/JOpx/XsmTCjXKt+T B7X8c8bwYuVGRMNu+uJU0W5Df112b/TyhEEz5OXzyEpZS2IQAkvXsILM86r86Vqp9HKH DRCAxGCImAGg+ApvhcCy4IywahnB3NoNJDvLKCCp2sTx6CxgztKfQ7Edc+pOzsrqoJN6 bZpPC67GTySQcSea1FWaJPw5Yy56HT7zR2I0CAxyHlxK4oTxWEW8T9Qp6bSuIK06y2X5 Q3aG4ZnNJiAKasx6VSeIZnN8B0WlXbE/SpXghG2+gTA/rbXZXjTN3fDL7lLd066EjWic jIGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ReNXVSANZJB+4lbCNP1CQ1+wh9vdDwQbj2j6CI2OkhA=; b=bRy0NS5bb1h7mP5PJVCPn9/DQrEnb6cwrjX1N532+lECkavlS6/9+MGp6tQBr8J5dU 2DmecIO2MkaDBj763d+99QxJKH5+5NF80MuEFVQI7knWoirDO+KbK3i5vdawW21zkzSn topda58YA+Wju5bFJfK4aH1E2nh24QZUaHkCeHDN5re6aF9FRuf+r0yyDjWdv3cCtYqo v679SL0lMSbwwfFnj25LgzISRj1WSgXStFW1fMVhWGErATqQuraR6oGR8gB0PS+RQC/z kkFX+cPdf3gO+GonbCS9hUiOvB1hfZvq6xNHC3Jl2CChwWcrVIqUiE0kHPjBV5JsQ/DZ YRBg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531xQwPEwXFLYc3/n+t95smgiIXOeG4Mgu0ssbUuFhF1YyNH/jWQ inTNcHRF6FuIfyi3P1R7bmWbQ+iihTRpndrlVmgwpR8mzVV+ig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyisg8zbyUUgE7UOR/6yJdxUPd1WejL2Y0GVtUNPLMxId32OkuEbCHWxeL2vjKi9qPTmGWZhZVlGXbTxP79qnY= X-Received: by 2002:a19:6410:: with SMTP id y16mr770078lfb.113.1612475960353; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 13:59:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210204212841.617DC6D625A0@ary.local> <44B40EDF-A2DB-42E7-9B28-65500354CF14@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <44B40EDF-A2DB-42E7-9B28-65500354CF14@ietf.org> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:58:44 -0800 Message-ID: To: Jay Daley Cc: John Levine , tools-discuss , lrosenth@adobe.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d3831405ba89d0d6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:59:24 -0000 --000000000000d3831405ba89d0d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Jay Daley wrote: > > > On 5/02/2021, at 10:28 AM, John Levine wrote: > > In article you write: > > Supporting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would you > support a non-standard version of it? CommonMark > (https://commonmark.org/) is the relevant "specification" for markdown. > Kramdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that promotes its own > flavor... > > > People are using at least two slightly incompatible markdown tools to > prepare I-D's, kramdown and mmark. > > If we're going to adopt markdown, we need at least to decide what we mean > by markdown. I don't > have any strong opnions about how to get to that point. > > > I'm concerned that we might be in a position where we can only adopt > markdown by extending it so far beyond common usage that we create a uniq= ue > IETF markup language. We=E2=80=99re probably not too far from that posit= ion > already. > I've done quite a bit of writing in kramdown (for RFCs) plus a number of other flavors of markdown. There are a few things that we would probably need that are not in CommonMark: - Metadata at the top - Figure captions - Named section references (I think) - Special syntax for bibliography entries. The good news is that things will mostly render correctly with standard parsers even if you invent special syntax for these. We might also be able to borrow from existing markdown extensions. -Ekr --000000000000d3831405ba89d0d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Jay Da= ley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:


On 5/02/2021= , at 10:28 AM, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

In article <<= a href=3D"mailto:E77A02FF-4DF8-4030-BC77-4355A705E00E@adobe.com" target=3D"= _blank">E77A02FF-4DF8-4030-BC77-4355A705E00E@adobe.com> you write:
Supporting Markdown as an input option is a goo= d idea - but why would you support a non-standard version of it? =C2=A0=C2= =A0CommonMark
(htt= ps://commonmark.org/) is the relevant "specification" for mar= kdown.=C2=A0 Kramdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that promotes = its own
flavor...

People are using at least two slig= htly incompatible markdown tools to prepare I-D's, kramdown and mmark.<= br>
If we're going to adopt markdown, we need at least to decide wha= t we mean by markdown.=C2=A0 I don't
have any strong opnions about h= ow to get to that point.

I&= #39;m concerned that we might be in a position where we can only adopt mark= down by extending it so far beyond common usage that we create a unique IET= F markup language.=C2=A0 We=E2=80=99re probably not too far from that posit= ion already.

I've done quite a bit of writing in kramdown (= for RFCs) plus a number of other flavors of markdown. There are a few thing= s that we would probably need that are not in CommonMark:

- Metadata at the top
- Figure captions
- N= amed section references (I think)
- Special syntax for bibliography entries.

Th= e good news is that things will mostly render correctly with standard parse= rs even if you invent special syntax for these. We might also be able to bo= rrow from existing markdown extensions.

-Ekr

--000000000000d3831405ba89d0d6-- From nobody Thu Feb 4 14:19:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F2F3A18C2 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:19:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id km0uk6bkaGTY for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf34.google.com (mail-qv1-xf34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA1A03A18C0 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf34.google.com with SMTP id u16so2540283qvo.9 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:19:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=9FSNfCN7AgX1+RDkegTBtq0v/J+tgw5iyAVdREIy/AU=; b=KEVezFffkjPGMXoyvsJkEqctChcJ14vK32edWNg5icLsdD9/sGF7qk/b2+CbwpKB8o d18rKH/y4nQk5lsWfc/VZGAjxz8ZouujHc61l9HneXNO+e/LDYxJrgGdFZtoCtM8Hv0V Cpz1zkMdHzgP04mPIRfZcJd34T4eeShLg+ptXWucaRt/msR9bVFulfheWx8Uo5kOv+G0 okkLnr0JhLmsRMuB+l2EdRaSQK/FxO4s8eoaw9EleMSmcA+ahyrVEO/wu5eNGj/9cMGN h0zlh4buJRLP+JRJj95smWL75/3zXOXaogrTbUl3sxXYDYmLSXh7KjPBKGEQGc4FrcPz xMEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=9FSNfCN7AgX1+RDkegTBtq0v/J+tgw5iyAVdREIy/AU=; b=Th9f2GYttRE3h8BmFkoJIt+nVhoSDZejN8h5VewDMnSYOFRb6IBs8+8VI3aRP9cfrC W7dAioTQeFt551DuSRvbCvDJUfK0yeXl6mByienp4F+Qc4rmoOoNOnK+gOYqtzVqLY9k IQMRAGCbyrhsbAFtM7Gdr0XcZB3aBfjOPf+asAo+AZTv2g9spgBcpAJHsTGY24oRvXV6 MWzH0N7LJURzAE1g/x9OlxQMKozyY9zGDj/07mXg9jb91Q8BhIzrhuTJAoaBsf0UoPsM +YDIYiewdOWTGXCiqpnZSE3cTdo7ORcg3F3rAWrkivFm1k6pZPFeOm5K+An+fotUmn9N QDLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5314y32btpN9iclLVfwSSS4HpjBKNkvuDujh4xC5ubXFvxmy+jfO b9j1IUUV8R6gONBc3KiNwTiNLw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyDV4xBAoAWNSM8cJSjUuGMAcy0d8xbr8Az7fhDfJIJYDWEwPlxArxAVzVEktlgolPYJquo2Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:9d3:: with SMTP id dp19mr1514378qvb.40.1612477172484; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mithrandir.lan (c-24-91-177-160.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.91.177.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q6sm6434853qkd.41.2021.02.04.14.19.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:19:31 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DE49549B-7FFC-44C4-B643-7664143E9E3C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 17:19:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Jay Daley , John Levine , tools-discuss , lrosenth@adobe.com To: Eric Rescorla References: <20210204212841.617DC6D625A0@ary.local> <44B40EDF-A2DB-42E7-9B28-65500354CF14@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 22:19:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DE49549B-7FFC-44C4-B643-7664143E9E3C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Feb 4, 2021, at 4:58 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: > I've done quite a bit of writing in kramdown (for RFCs) plus a number = of other flavors of markdown. There are a few things that we would = probably need that are not in CommonMark: >=20 > - Metadata at the top > - Figure captions > - Named section references (I think) > - Special syntax for bibliography entries. >=20 > The good news is that things will mostly render correctly with = standard parsers even if you invent special syntax for these. We might = also be able to borrow from existing markdown extensions. IIRC from looking recently, CommonMark lacks definition lists. I=E2=80=99m= not a big fan of either CommonMark or Kramdown, but if I had to pick, = I=E2=80=99d pick kramdown. --Apple-Mail=_DE49549B-7FFC-44C4-B643-7664143E9E3C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = Feb 4, 2021, at 4:58 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:
I've done = quite a bit of writing in kramdown (for RFCs) plus a number of other = flavors of markdown. There are a few things that we would probably need = that are not in CommonMark:

- Metadata at the top
- Figure captions
- Named section references (I think)
- Special syntax for bibliography = entries.

The good news is that things will mostly render = correctly with standard parsers even if you invent special syntax for = these. We might also be able to borrow from existing markdown = extensions.

IIRC from looking recently, CommonMark lacks definition = lists. I=E2=80=99m not a big fan of either CommonMark or Kramdown, but = if I had to pick, I=E2=80=99d pick kramdown.

= --Apple-Mail=_DE49549B-7FFC-44C4-B643-7664143E9E3C-- From nobody Thu Feb 4 14:23:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5E53A18C9 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:23:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.712 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.712 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FSL_BULK_SIG=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=1.886, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.922, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OYyjfhTvMVw3 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:23:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A1063A18BB for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:23:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id x81so5081440qkb.0 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:23:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nvwLuxIVYanPyXzLJL76ZOIeba3YK9Qm3qY0Ch4A9zs=; b=PzemGccWWwCdGOBq1W5yEQLekRCAxsfNpcyEbX+68fIbVTfMhmBrL/5omJR46lIxZW HTSoq7GfYQY0gM6mbX/4+JYvNZODvlQLmACAf5sFOCy991CMcX92o6Dj6f83ZHPlz6YH F5uw5pUqVH0S8hq+1IrCgjkJtfuED++I4TKWCiN6q2kAMEu8igWOTVzxiBtOsgvTNdm9 XReiPH2X2YbYoiteY+TcgEgftAOVbxKSGgacVW+//J4fCuQ5Jx1yuQCXOwao45ycSx/C 5hThmX6vLnGasKrGUWv19/RzmSjD9juGxbgg1+anBaV9ese2Ls3dtVHp1JhxocbFKFia NfSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nvwLuxIVYanPyXzLJL76ZOIeba3YK9Qm3qY0Ch4A9zs=; b=RNMf+soMZEOJawGO5NWKz9c6XNAb1E9zATqoyb5GpYBFsziIyvTW4uPX+aAh1+dple 5bZw77U0d0cUHQlRlAXcX674ERwodoFKrbMxKhuF2/HCh/7vKlhw0Bxeq4NSRs15AH7M M0UrTAwJIbo2E11vZrlEBXa48TxKIACmTu3u6WNbisV62l+vO/QBvfs/YNrUTRA4mtl6 LdhomPB6VwBSibV+lrHrwuqAa9orO5vcTxkK/Ze27PwEMnVyIHM30zRxI/lAr1FpT4vc U2F2XN1Ep/j/orfzghBJKKcDsNp8x5FqH6CCsG0a+DsC0uWRhY4NPdIUyxfT0aNuBag3 6eNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533xhp3WRQouoB4bSWOlC/0S/M8wC7yS6hWF3/+yOWX4Mq8GdI5W XqaCTYftt92zRNjQKqaCFXwj018ntZ/Z/r8r/fI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzfDhpKOwLuxpGyYf4ZCBR2upIW3xYeb6cqw9r+4vOc/DzN+A6geW7DUEfmj7ZyUMmDfg00eLqWmZ8NyD7ypXI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:16cd:: with SMTP id a13mr1437221qkn.249.1612477401881; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:23:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 17:23:05 -0500 Message-ID: To: Leonard Rosenthol Cc: Carsten Bormann , RFC Interest , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bf5e4e05ba8a2676" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 22:23:25 -0000 --000000000000bf5e4e05ba8a2676 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Leonard, Can you use CommonMark to easily generate idnits-compatible drafts, including ToC, references, boilerplate, and the rest? If so, is that documented anywhere? Unless and until that's in place, Kramdown is in place and works great. And has awesome support! Cheers, Andy On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 4:02 PM Leonard Rosenthol wrote= : > Supporting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would you > support a non-standard version of it? CommonMark ( > https://commonmark.org/) is the relevant "specification" for markdown. > Kramdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that promotes its own > flavor... > > Leonard > > =EF=BB=BFOn 2/4/21, 10:44 AM, "rfc-interest on behalf of Carsten Bormann"= < > rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org on behalf of cabo@tzi.org> wrote: > > > > > 1. "Official support" for the Kramdown toolset rather than just > appearing on the experimental tools page. > > > > 2. For idnits to support Kramdown source, so you don't have to do a > conversion in order to perform idnits checking. I know that I could scrip= t > this, and perhaps will when I start my next draft ... :-), but native > support would be better. > > > > 3. Being able to use Kramdown as a draft submission format, rather > than converting to XML and/or plaintext for submission. > > > > I'd be happy with 1, but even happier with 2 and/or 3 as well. > > I=E2=80=99m a bit ambiguous about =E2=80=9Cofficial support=E2=80=9D. > This is a bit like the transition from an individual draft to a > working group draft=E2=80=A6 > > Today, at 10:24 CET, Martin Thomson filed an issue, and he provided a > fix at 10:27. > At 11:04, version 1.3.26 with that fix was pushed to rubygems.org so > people can `gem update` to that. > I=E2=80=99d like to keep the kramdown-rfc process lightweight enough = so we can > have these turnaround times. > > But sure, making the tool available on the tools/datatracker web > presences and via the submission tool would be helpful. > > I=E2=80=99m not so sure about (2). This would require idnits to do s= ome > second-guessing of what kramdown=E2=80=94rfc does, and would make it hard= er to > evolve kramdown-rfc. Why not run the authoring tool and then idnits? > Right now, there isn=E2=80=99t even a way to run idnits on the XML, maybe= we could > address that first. > Maybe I should put a simple CLI option for running idnits into the > `kdrfc` tool... > Now > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithu= b.com%2Fcabo%2Fkramdown-rfc2629%2Fissues%2F96&data=3D04%7C01%7Clrosenth= %40adobe.com%7C4293cd49aa87480921fb08d8c923b894%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c17= 8decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637480502571422936%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj= AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DZHi= zYml%2FsK%2FQIkc%2B0usb77P0pjnwrkBMqVKGXU%2BwweU%3D&reserved=3D0 > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > rfc-interest mailing list > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.r= fc-editor.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Frfc-interest&data=3D04%7C01%7Clros= enth%40adobe.com%7C4293cd49aa87480921fb08d8c923b894%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed= 2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637480502571422936%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC= 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata= =3DmYAWpv%2BttqaFFCSACEwdpCC9lSDhxPN9gDm8HXYK9bg%3D&reserved=3D0 > > --000000000000bf5e4e05ba8a2676 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Leonard,

Can you use=C2=A0CommonMark to= easily generate idnits-compatible=C2=A0drafts, including ToC, references, = boilerplate, and the rest? If so, is that documented anywhere?=C2=A0
<= div>
Unless and until that's in place, Kramdown is in pla= ce and works great. And has awesome support!

Cheer= s,
Andy


=
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 4:02 PM Leonar= d Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> wrote:
Sup= porting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would you supp= ort a non-standard version of it?=C2=A0 =C2=A0CommonMark (https://commonmark.= org/) is the relevant "specification" for markdown.=C2=A0 Kra= mdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that promotes its own flavor..= .

Leonard

=EF=BB=BFOn 2/4/21, 10:44 AM, "rfc-interest on behalf of Carsten Borma= nn" <rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org on behalf of cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 1. "Official support" for the Kramdown toolset= rather than just appearing on the experimental tools page.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 2. For idnits to support Kramdown source, so you don'= ;t have to do a conversion in order to perform idnits checking. I know that= I could script this, and perhaps will when I start my next draft ... :-), = but native support would be better.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > 3. Being able to use Kramdown as a draft submission form= at, rather than converting to XML and/or plaintext for submission.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I'd be happy with 1, but even happier with 2 and/or = 3 as well.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m a bit ambiguous about =E2=80=9Cofficial support= =E2=80=9D.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is a bit like the transition from an individual draft to= a working group draft=E2=80=A6

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Today, at 10:24 CET, Martin Thomson filed an issue, and he pr= ovided a fix at 10:27.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 At 11:04, version 1.3.26 with that fix was pushed to rubygems.org<= /a> so people can `gem update` to that.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99d like to keep the kramdown-rfc process lightweight= enough so we can have these turnaround times.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But sure, making the tool available on the tools/datatracker = web presences and via the submission tool would be helpful.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m not so sure about (2).=C2=A0 This would require i= dnits to do some second-guessing of what kramdown=E2=80=94rfc does, and wou= ld make it harder to evolve kramdown-rfc.=C2=A0 Why not run the authoring t= ool and then idnits?=C2=A0 Right now, there isn=E2=80=99t even a way to run= idnits on the XML, maybe we could address that first.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Maybe I should put a simple CLI option for running idnits int= o the `kdrfc` tool...
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Now http= s://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%= 2Fcabo%2Fkramdown-rfc2629%2Fissues%2F96&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clrosenth%4= 0adobe.com%7C4293cd49aa87480921fb08d8c923b894%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178d= ecee1%7C0%7C0%7C637480502571422936%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw= MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DZ= HizYml%2FsK%2FQIkc%2B0usb77P0pjnwrkBMqVKGXU%2BwweU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0<= /a>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 rfc-interest mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
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--000000000000bf5e4e05ba8a2676-- From nobody Thu Feb 4 16:57:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271D33A1A20 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:57:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FSL_BULK_SIG=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=1.886, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.922, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xz-QCaczjN5L for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:57:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28B343A0CB9 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:57:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.152] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DWxpx1spkzyVW; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 01:57:45 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A884B8D2-AC68-4D40-A724-B49EAF59ACDA" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 01:57:44 +0100 Cc: RFC Interest , tools-discuss Message-Id: References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> To: Leonard Rosenthol X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 00:57:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A884B8D2-AC68-4D40-A724-B49EAF59ACDA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 4. Feb 2021, at 22:02, Leonard Rosenthol = wrote: >=20 > Supporting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but why would = you support a non-standard version of it? CommonMark = (https://commonmark.org/ ) is the relevant = "specification" for markdown. Kramdown, on the other hand, is a = specific tool that promotes its own flavor=E2=80=A6 Hi Leonard, the short answer is that in 2010, when kramdown-rfc was created, = commonmark wasn=E2=80=99t even on the horizon. =46rom my point of view, the most important requirement for an authoring = language to be used in the IETF is that it remains stable. Drafts often have a 3-5 year lifetime before they finally get published = as an RFC. People are working on, and text is moving back and forth = between, drafts in various of these stages. So compatibility timelines on the order of a decade or more are = required. Of course, we could decide to =E2=80=9Cupgrade=E2=80=9D to commonmark = after kramdown-rfc now has been around for a decade. With migration aids, this could be palatable (if enough development = resources are poured into those; maybe we want to use those for = completing the RFXMLv3 migration instead). But what would be the upside? Let=E2=80=99s ignore for the moment that commonmark is missing tables, = definition lists, anchors, attributes, and a few more things that I = forget because one might take them for granted. A move to commonmark would not be addressing the larger problem with = markdown interoperability, which is that RFCXML needs more from an = authoring language than markdown provides. Few of the various features that needed to be invented for kramdown-rfc = [1] are provided by commonmark. One of the most important contributions by kramdown-rfc, painless = reference management in the context of IETF documents, is situated to = our usage. I would also chalk up the input of structured data (=E2=80=9Cmetadata=E2=80= =9D) using YAML as one of the successes. The underlying kramdown library is run by a developer that shares the = goal of compatibility for decades. Only recently, a mild cleanup was made in the form of kramdown 2.x = (adoption of which is still on the to-do list for kramdown-rfc because = kramdown recently dropped PI support). This of course meant that the author couldn=E2=80=99t wholesale adopt = the changes made to markdown=E2=80=99s core by commonmark. But, in reality, kramdown syntax is rather close to commonmark, outside = of pathological cases (and the cases where commonmark is just missing = needed functionality). One of the less obvious sources of strength of kramdown-rfc is that it = is implemented in less than 1800 lines of code. This was possible because the kramdown library (an about an order of = magnitude larger effort) is doing the heavy lifting. (The first version of kramdown-rfc was done in less than a day.) This means kramdown-rfc can be a community project, without the need for = support staff. This is something we might want to change at some point, but not without = a really good reason. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/wiki/Syntax --Apple-Mail=_A884B8D2-AC68-4D40-A724-B49EAF59ACDA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = 4. Feb 2021, at 22:02, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth=3D40adobe.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Supporting Markdown as an input option is a good idea - but = why would you support a non-standard version of it? =   CommonMark (https://commonmark.org/) is the relevant "specification" for markdown. =  Kramdown, on the other hand, is a specific tool that promotes its = own flavor=E2=80=A6

Hi Leonard,

the short answer is that in 2010, when kramdown-rfc was = created, commonmark wasn=E2=80=99t even on the horizon.

=46rom my point of view, = the most important requirement for an authoring language to be used in = the IETF is that it remains stable.
Drafts often = have a 3-5 year lifetime before they finally get published as an RFC. =  People are working on, and text is moving back and forth between, = drafts in various of these stages.
So compatibility = timelines on the order of a decade or more are required.

Of course, we could = decide to =E2=80=9Cupgrade=E2=80=9D to commonmark after kramdown-rfc now = has been around for a decade.
With migration aids, = this could be palatable (if enough development resources are poured into = those; maybe we want to use those for completing the RFXMLv3 migration = instead).
But what would be the upside?

Let=E2=80=99s ignore for = the moment that commonmark is missing tables, definition lists, anchors, = attributes, and a few more things that I forget because one might take = them for granted.
A move to commonmark would not be = addressing the larger problem with markdown interoperability, which is = that RFCXML needs more from an authoring language than markdown = provides.
Few of the various features that needed = to be invented for kramdown-rfc [1] are provided by = commonmark.
One of the most important contributions = by kramdown-rfc, painless reference management in the context of IETF = documents, is situated to our usage.
I would also = chalk up the input of structured data (=E2=80=9Cmetadata=E2=80=9D) using = YAML as one of the successes.

The underlying kramdown library is run = by a developer that shares the goal of compatibility for = decades.
Only recently, a mild cleanup was made in = the form of kramdown 2.x (adoption of which is still on the to-do list = for kramdown-rfc because kramdown recently dropped PI = support).
This of course meant that the author = couldn=E2=80=99t wholesale adopt the changes made to markdown=E2=80=99s = core by commonmark.
But, in reality, kramdown = syntax is rather close to commonmark, outside of pathological cases (and = the cases where commonmark is just missing needed = functionality).

One of the less obvious sources of strength of kramdown-rfc = is that it is implemented in less than 1800 lines of code.
This was possible because the kramdown library (an about an = order of magnitude larger effort) is doing the heavy lifting.
(The first version of kramdown-rfc was done in less than a = day.)
This means kramdown-rfc can be a community = project, without the need for support staff.
This = is something we might want to change at some point, but not without a = really good reason.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

[1]: https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/wiki/Syntax
<= div class=3D"">

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I don't > > have any strong opnions about how to get to that point. > > +1 I think that it depends on what "support" means. If it means providing support for conversion and upload (and nits and whatever other processes we might choose to support), that's relatively easy. That can be done with minimal official backing for both formats, not just one (drop .txt at the same time). I support both mmark and kramdown variants; it costs ~5 lines of code that I last touched years ago. And both get enough use to justify that code. They are trivially distinguishable and both formats reduce to XML nicely, for which we can build common tooling. The support Carsten and Miek provide is excellent, so unless we are forced to choose, I'd say that we don't have to. If that support were to end and there was a need for the IETF to step in, then we might want to consider resourcing only one of the two, but I'm OK with two until we're forced to choose. One would be better, but I don't see a need to force a choice. 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[91.102.42.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g1sm11974625wrq.30.2021.02.05.06.41.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:41:53 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.45.21011103 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 16:41:51 +0200 From: Yaron Sheffer To: tools-discuss CC: Thomas Fossati Message-ID: <84695D43-5A72-4404-AF1E-137C6A49C153@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: Nits nit: missing draft version Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3695388112_802738787" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Nits nit: missing draft version X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 14:41:58 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3695388112_802738787 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Running I-D nits: https://www6.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=3Dhttps://www.ietf.o= rg/archive/id/draft-ietf-acme-star-delegation-04.txt =20 We get: =20 =C2=A0 -- Unexpected draft version: The latest known version of=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-ietf-stir-cert-delegation is -02, but you're referring to -= 03. =20 Which is incorrect. The latest is in fact -03. https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/draft-ietf-stir-cert-delegation/ =20 Thanks, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Yaron =20 --B_3695388112_802738787 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Running I-D nits: https://www6.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/archive/id/d= raft-ietf-acme-star-delegation-04.txt

 

We get:

 

=C2=A0 -- Unexpected draft version: = The latest known version of

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-ietf-stir-cert-delegation is -02, bu= t you're referring to -03.

 

Which is incorrect. The latest is in fact -03. https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-stir-cert-delegation/<= /span>

 

Thanks,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Yaron

 

--B_3695388112_802738787-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 09:02:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B95103A0A93 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 09:02:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DLJ5rAN7DC8F for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 09:02:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E238C3A0A79 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 09:02:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DXMDJ5183zyZn; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:02:40 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <9EB5CCB0-C5E9-4F44-AA41-F237941BAC04@adobe.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:02:40 +0100 Cc: RFC Interest , tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634237360.124995-5abc0b7461d2bb81bcf7d246aeda6bfe Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7F9EFBB7-346E-4A98-B148-01E681FBE6C2@tzi.org> References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> <9EB5CCB0-C5E9-4F44-AA41-F237941BAC04@adobe.com> To: Leonard Rosenthol X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 17:02:47 -0000 Hi Leonard, On 2021-02-05, at 15:35, Leonard Rosenthol wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the history, Carsten =E2=80=93 very helpful. > =20 > So then kramdown-rfc is *both* a piece of software *and* an extension = specification for Markdown. Yes? =20 Well, no. It is a piece of software. There is no specification, just = some documentation. (Well, that property is only different in magnitude = from RFCXMLv3 at this point=E2=80=A6) Note that, as it is based on = kramdown, there might be a need to specify that as well in some more = detail than it is now. > If so, does there exist a document that describes those extensions and = their behavior? Because, to me as a standards guy, that is the = important thing. Making sure that there is a formal specification = which *anyone* can use to develop their own tooling. The narrow waist of the RFC authoring process is RFCXMLv3, so I would = hope that we build our tooling around that. That is (supposed to be) = more stable than a specific authoring tool. > NOTE: I read the README at https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629 = (which I assume is the software we are referring to below) which seems = like a great starting point for a language specification. Indeed, but that would be work that still needs to be completed. =20 (See also https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/wiki/Syntax .) For some reason, there are always other I-Ds that need to be written... Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Feb 5 18:24:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F743A1076 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:24:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=YGZH5kVi; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Zi8rqUvx Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GEXooW0L4LHV for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:24:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEF643A1073 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A335C00E1; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 21:24:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 21:24:23 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm1; bh=L OR5xeMacMVeDo9V7gE1897oMKQmr7fdDnNRLM8Q8ME=; b=YGZH5kViIvQD2JVui 4OWFpBuI+AhiCHmvEuloSTdWFQrvowbdmMWKnS6IW2TRXk7wZwupEfJ1d1WyVEbH eqpvNE8egEYOTQ6NZ2PZLuRzW+LG+W+p0ZHXn9E+6LLVzGATR8e6weC2wdZLUuj+ ln3tobY/I5vDx+Z8ILsCFaro+vi5RsmK1km9owWCAhnOt5zy89vNZ7CeethWvMXi Gtkn7RhxHxdIx7QXY9F06eNAOH5C48bm6woQJxB+F5B/FBjTtuiDDgF1wK/2S39y 84skT833mYplOUZQmvQrZFE1oinSvKmSUiAph8hJZgl+3tTn7nLOzo6vcSFCb6Ru pVVXA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=LOR5xeMacMVeDo9V7gE1897oMKQmr7fdDnNRLM8Q8 ME=; b=Zi8rqUvxZRYdKt18JnvhyAnHs//SOQ2kKPQ35+PJUcbsK3krWw1oExHNW 1XBv5mtwaO15GYnEtOiDT/rQUebZ21bWfLD4zL5tcM6LUnKW52SggCDLUaXFajed qMVNLbRW2ZjSZKDdGEVKxMR8SVQKPok8E5PB74AVmgu/0wVusesb4WBe6US23Aqd sFqKdW99pBO0yAcG7aR9TYS++roK2PPNTFW9NiGHb5aLjw59A7Torq697hAlLoFr Wgnd9dfc8C2h57Tiu9910IUd1MgSMTjGge1sztuTi/fOs4iFtPZY+5vLSp+Q67Je UOgax7Z6MiOOEmROucFJQkGjKeseA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrgeejgdeggecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpegtggfuhfgjfffgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeforghrkhcu pfhothhtihhnghhhrghmuceomhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg hrnhepteefleffjeffhfehheeffeegudelgfeujedukeeigedvgeehffefvdehffeileek necuffhomhgrihhnpehmnhhothdrnhgvthenucfkphepudduledrudejrdduheekrddvhe dunecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhn ohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.7.30] (119-17-158-251.77119e.mel.static.aussiebb.net [119.17.158.251]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 35B2D24005D; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 21:24:18 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <9EB5CCB0-C5E9-4F44-AA41-F237941BAC04@adobe.com> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 13:24:17 +1100 Cc: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> <9EB5CCB0-C5E9-4F44-AA41-F237941BAC04@adobe.com> To: RFC Interest X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 02:24:26 -0000 > On 6 Feb 2021, at 1:35 am, Leonard Rosenthol = wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the history, Carsten =E2=80=93 very helpful. > =20 > So then kramdown-rfc is *both* a piece of software *and* an extension = specification for Markdown. Yes? If so, does there exist a document = that describes those extensions and their behavior? Because, to me as = a standards guy, that is the important thing. Making sure that there = is a formal specification which *anyone* can use to develop their own = tooling. If only we held the XML format to such a high bar... (I'll show myself out.) -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Sat Feb 6 11:49:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35C13AD513 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 11:49:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=alum.mit.edu Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UirD5xH-M7lD for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 11:49:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM04-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam08on2070.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.102.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FB363AD512 for ; 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CTRY:US; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:CAL; SFV:NSPM; H:outgoing-alum.mit.edu; PTR:outgoing-alum.mit.edu; CAT:NONE; SFS:(346002)(376002)(396003)(136003)(39860400002)(46966006)(36840700001)(8676002)(8936002)(316002)(36906005)(4744005)(786003)(75432002)(186003)(82740400003)(2906002)(31696002)(47076005)(6916009)(86362001)(26005)(478600001)(70586007)(70206006)(7596003)(36860700001)(336012)(956004)(356005)(2616005)(82310400003)(5660300002)(31686004)(43740500002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; X-OriginatorOrg: alum.mit.edu X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2021 19:49:19.3094 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0c8df5f1-8607-452a-594e-08d8cad84b18 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 3326b102-c043-408b-a990-b89e477d582f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=3326b102-c043-408b-a990-b89e477d582f; Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CY1NAM02FT054.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN8PR12MB2979 Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff Tool: too much right margin X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 19:49:23 -0000 When diffing (side by side) some drafts I find that there is extra right margin in the left panel. This skews things so I can't see both panels simultaneously. I don't think this always happens, but I can't characterize when it does and doesn't. An example of this can be seen diffing draft-ietf-rum-rue-03/draft-ietf-rum-rue-04. Any idea why this is happening and if I can do anything to fix it? Thanks, Paul From nobody Sat Feb 6 13:44:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDCB83A2C6B for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 13:44:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vlikCNgGNCyi for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 13:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 544633A2C6A for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 13:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2576F389A9; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 16:47:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id UsoypJWsvkZF; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 16:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35BB2389A4; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 16:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBEA5585; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 16:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: RFC Interest , tools-discuss In-Reply-To: References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 21:44:38 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am agnostic about commonmark vs kramdown. I want to address the question of accepting markdown on the DT. There are three aspects which mis-recommends this to me: 1) DT would have to be able to communicate errors back to the submitter wel= l. Running the formatting, including the xml2rfc pass locally means that errors are communicating locally. So, my opinion is that accepting kramdown does not reduce any local comp= lexity. 2) {::include } One of the things I like about kramdown, is the {:include} directive. This lets us keep the ascii art and other example diagrams in other file= s. This significantly reduces errors in updating example content. If we supported upload in kramdown, then we'd have to support upload of entire sets of files to be useful. 3) {::include } is insufficient. We have a bunch of other content: code examples, yang modules, etc. which have so far been rather annoying to get in, and I wrote a perl script to insert the right ,
, and also to pick the right YANG version YYYYMMDD stuff. I think that getting all this right in whatever markdown format would take several iteration of tool improvements, and we have only just gotten to XMLv3. XMLv3 gets this all 'right' now, but I think that we aren't even close to 100% submission as XML. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAfDb4ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXP1QgAp987XLgDK7x/dloiuTIAi9CD3EdHxmUmqtg0QYZBfFs1dwm3Aha6KE0V yXhyLd/gFnL3SGysbpwNw5FwCOaDwgBcFWn4VOI3PJqTm3OGhTP9gXKCL1lZPQFD K4/qIxlpPHbDOtQjCoA7CT6WcsVji7w6PYk57doo2OOMNLJyVymP2sNWjL2h3Z+8 6TE0eUEzOiZ/0Vebi8fqvTzrQFI3fglYGnXaHBWMt54IF1kp6lJHPQ1ouTskDroM pf5gVNwfyOsBfoLXyLBlttK1s3adbRuYKnwgNqToZzHtl+AHknbK9oo9mk2WiEUi EXvl5PLaUHJhzcLxzQ6WSfu2dRpY8Q== =BBYE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Feb 6 13:53:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8713E3A2C53 for ; 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Sat, 06 Feb 2021 13:53:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> <18192.1612647870@localhost> In-Reply-To: <18192.1612647870@localhost> From: Tim Wicinski Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 16:53:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: RFC Interest , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000080ee9405bab1f728" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 21:53:33 -0000 --00000000000080ee9405bab1f728 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mmark is much more flexible on what one can include. https://mmark.miek.nl/ On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 4:44 PM Michael Richardson wrote: > > I am agnostic about commonmark vs kramdown. > I want to address the question of accepting markdown on the DT. > > There are three aspects which mis-recommends this to me: > 1) DT would have to be able to communicate errors back to the submitter > well. > Running the formatting, including the xml2rfc pass locally means that > errors are communicating locally. > So, my opinion is that accepting kramdown does not reduce any local > complexity. > > 2) {::include } > One of the things I like about kramdown, is the {:include} directive. > This lets us keep the ascii art and other example diagrams in other > files. > This significantly reduces errors in updating example content. > > If we supported upload in kramdown, then we'd have to support upload > of entire sets of files to be useful. > > 3) {::include } is insufficient. > We have a bunch of other content: code examples, yang modules, etc. > which have so far been rather annoying to get in, and I wrote a perl > script to insert the right ,
, and > also to pick the right YANG version YYYYMMDD stuff. > > I think that getting all this right in whatever markdown format would > take several iteration of tool improvements, and we have only just > gotten to XMLv3. > XMLv3 gets this all 'right' now, but I think that we aren't even close > to 100% submission as XML. > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consul= ting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.or= g > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > --00000000000080ee9405bab1f728 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
mmark is much more flexible on what one can include.=C2=A0=C2=A0


On Sat, Feb 6, 202= 1 at 4:44 PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

I am agnostic about commonmark vs kramdown.
I want to address the question of accepting markdown on the DT.

There are three aspects which mis-recommends this to me:
1) DT would have to be able to communicate errors back to the submitter wel= l.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Running the formatting, including the xml2rfc pass locally mea= ns that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0errors are communicating locally.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0So, my opinion is that accepting kramdown does not reduce any = local complexity.

2) {::include }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0One of the things I like about kramdown, is the {:include} dir= ective.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This lets us keep the ascii art and other example diagrams in = other files.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This significantly reduces errors in updating example content.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0If we supported upload in kramdown, then we'd have to supp= ort upload
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of entire sets of files to be useful.

3) {::include } is insufficient.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have a bunch of other content: code examples, yang modules,= =C2=A0 etc.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0which have so far been rather annoying to get in, and I wrote = a perl
=C2=A0 =C2=A0script to insert the right <CODE BEGINS>, <figure>= <artwork>, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0also to pick the right YANG version YYYYMMDD stuff.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think that getting all this right in whatever markdown forma= t would
=C2=A0 =C2=A0take several iteration of tool improvements, and we have only = just
=C2=A0 =C2=A0gotten to XMLv3.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0XMLv3 gets this all 'right' now, but I think that we a= ren't even close
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to 100% submission as XML.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>=C2=A0 =C2=A0. o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T co= nsulting )
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sandelman Software Works Inc, Otta= wa and Worldwide
___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
--00000000000080ee9405bab1f728-- From nobody Sat Feb 6 14:52:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68AF3A2CDE for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 14:52:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WJFipKSZDr6S for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 14:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 282643A2CDD for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 14:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id l27so10768999qki.9 for ; Sat, 06 Feb 2021 14:52:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+Ler5mW88vbT/UvRPrCHQKC22dw10oBcIhcSoEbif6M=; b=ekAJX8D0EIKxSO9DI77c7LVWtz6iNnTkpToT3eirCZgMfzMEbDcVGh2OTJKuTgQbD8 fHjM4V2XU+UPdugh4HeGCuzDiDKpGadL5nHBZ6HafOKmbvoYgIrOCiycKqDVqBBQsyuh EcPdtC54eJ5Z3Py6YJA2usRsH4gyS88cNIwhoxqJG/xKUwupqmqbmkLgR6KdKD5dP0+T fpchOotHRIa0hXydlSlJ7g6JPHGaZBgjvOpZklemTH8FmJwa54Om9UwpEYQEwZJF3Yx1 A/wi1ehRg1sNtINAu3bTyEHRV7dJ1QOzi1qcVaPJ2xCax6I7yl55Xq7JKF9bzjj62ozI PIbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+Ler5mW88vbT/UvRPrCHQKC22dw10oBcIhcSoEbif6M=; b=Y7wtTOIMsh8f0nrw33scWpInqfxxA2todWPAO/a8bam/AjbAHATd6/V+QHq7vMIsEh YEaOiDaSYC3kZ0I2H293+pAH98UrcIl6hUfax+m4gp/5lCe6bm3r1ZMI3+VINa33C40r BVy3ny/V6F9OwAd/hM2F9IzCZbp9fldZEW7VtKnjX8qj5lKyFyY5ySrmoyKYauRN3wLL w8zDGbknr0nY+wPdGlYF6XV1q11QD61/0Ek9aYVRcAEfsX0ZeKpSBIg+HGRZSN7lIGKq f6PAErSQ2XhkFulnVEkVopnRtfJdv9OTb7qonvliIvizSwxT8t8BiCXFjvTxYtT4/1Eg IdbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533eKSzTer9p/oHR/Dm9AKY505JsxFAtCCo2hkzwe57O8iL1YWu2 1X+OAjcrAnxRkjebniWmCIEuw0XHi3k7So7nzkc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwGVR4iGxgV8NNn0B18ZuKPHU/Clqa7T8OagczKhRHKSJP7kn8xJEWAz+yxjUo19IdkRS5cNZ0D8CNAi1tAym0= X-Received: by 2002:a37:2796:: with SMTP id n144mr11032641qkn.57.1612651924242; Sat, 06 Feb 2021 14:52:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> <18192.1612647870@localhost> In-Reply-To: <18192.1612647870@localhost> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 17:51:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: RFC Interest , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000017444805bab2c918" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 22:52:08 -0000 --00000000000017444805bab2c918 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael, You make some good points, thanks. But also, I'm happy with Carsten's new idnits option, so this has been a useful discussion. Cheers, Andy On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 4:44 PM Michael Richardson wrote: > > I am agnostic about commonmark vs kramdown. > I want to address the question of accepting markdown on the DT. > > There are three aspects which mis-recommends this to me: > 1) DT would have to be able to communicate errors back to the submitter > well. > Running the formatting, including the xml2rfc pass locally means that > errors are communicating locally. > So, my opinion is that accepting kramdown does not reduce any local > complexity. > > 2) {::include } > One of the things I like about kramdown, is the {:include} directive. > This lets us keep the ascii art and other example diagrams in other > files. > This significantly reduces errors in updating example content. > > If we supported upload in kramdown, then we'd have to support upload > of entire sets of files to be useful. > > 3) {::include } is insufficient. > We have a bunch of other content: code examples, yang modules, etc. > which have so far been rather annoying to get in, and I wrote a perl > script to insert the right ,
, and > also to pick the right YANG version YYYYMMDD stuff. > > I think that getting all this right in whatever markdown format would > take several iteration of tool improvements, and we have only just > gotten to XMLv3. > XMLv3 gets this all 'right' now, but I think that we aren't even close > to 100% submission as XML. > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consul= ting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > _______________________________________________ > rfc-interest mailing list > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest > --00000000000017444805bab2c918 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Michael,

You make some good points, tha= nks.

But also, I'm happy with Carsten's ne= w idnits=C2=A0option, so this has been a useful discussion.

<= /div>
Cheers,
Andy


On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 = at 4:44 PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

I am agnostic about commonmark vs kramdown.
I want to address the question of accepting markdown on the DT.

There are three aspects which mis-recommends this to me:
1) DT would have to be able to communicate errors back to the submitter wel= l.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Running the formatting, including the xml2rfc pass locally mea= ns that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0errors are communicating locally.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0So, my opinion is that accepting kramdown does not reduce any = local complexity.

2) {::include }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0One of the things I like about kramdown, is the {:include} dir= ective.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This lets us keep the ascii art and other example diagrams in = other files.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This significantly reduces errors in updating example content.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0If we supported upload in kramdown, then we'd have to supp= ort upload
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of entire sets of files to be useful.

3) {::include } is insufficient.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have a bunch of other content: code examples, yang modules,= =C2=A0 etc.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0which have so far been rather annoying to get in, and I wrote = a perl
=C2=A0 =C2=A0script to insert the right <CODE BEGINS>, <figure>= <artwork>, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0also to pick the right YANG version YYYYMMDD stuff.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think that getting all this right in whatever markdown forma= t would
=C2=A0 =C2=A0take several iteration of tool improvements, and we have only = just
=C2=A0 =C2=A0gotten to XMLv3.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0XMLv3 gets this all 'right' now, but I think that we a= ren't even close
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to 100% submission as XML.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>=C2=A0 =C2=A0. o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T co= nsulting )
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sandelman Software Works Inc, Otta= wa and Worldwide
_______________________________________________
rfc-interest mailing list
rfc-intere= st@rfc-editor.org
https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/= rfc-interest
--00000000000017444805bab2c918-- From nobody Sat Feb 6 18:07:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CC83A2E68 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 18:07:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xBZrH0un7Zv5 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 18:07:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 212613A2E5D for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 18:07:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E120B389A9; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:10:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id dQlM7lwP0F7W; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:10:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF020389A7; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:10:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8FFC65; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:07:37 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: RFC Interest , tools-discuss In-Reply-To: References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> <18192.1612647870@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 02:07:42 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim Wicinski wrote: > mmark is much more flexible on what one can include. > https://mmark.miek.nl/ That actually is less helpful, if you haven't uploaded all the required fil= es to the DT. The CELLAR WG, of which I'm co-chair, uses mmark, btw. Our use is probably overly complicated, but I didn't set it up :-) =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAfS2kACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXhkQf/VXXLaZMgJmSTRxyiCBnhEU+KPslisOjHpAEKrrEsDvByEuAycrcBCqvb jozUIrfkk+eUd9jNT4aKVZZJ2Af7Vo5yQ9grrNJQk+X2oqstRi128FjP5dWacNxP hCj3Os8J2us3L3wADCFbCorDFraYGk9LOlbqNmgwAXcEaIM1l3aKHemshUxW2Cem D41O+gvnuDXyzCPv4ToeCDsF7IhO16Xj30cJBJBG8bse0kksVju8NEepjMW4BPq8 8zlmrtRHBKj1ebNg1PHxhUOBkJJVDd6B8UCrFgCMGJ07kvGdmom54OnI4JaxuBN5 NTnB0Xr25N9l95TyK58/u5yuELm2Kw== =/79v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Feb 6 19:11:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42833A2EE7 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 19:10:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U98TlAy3mrI2 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 19:10:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE9E53A2EE6 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 19:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.152] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DYDgf1z9qzyVV; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 04:10:54 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_634B3A97-B1E9-4359-A6A6-B4FCFE6F45C6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <29774.1612663657@localhost> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 04:10:53 +0100 Cc: RFC Interest , tools-discuss Message-Id: <139065E7-F8DF-418D-89E9-156BE35C4DFA@tzi.org> References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> <18192.1612647870@localhost> <29774.1612663657@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 03:11:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_634B3A97-B1E9-4359-A6A6-B4FCFE6F45C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 7. Feb 2021, at 03:07, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > That actually is less helpful, if you haven't uploaded all the = required files > to the DT. Right. So an include feature probably should include a preparation = feature that allows you to create a combined version to upload. But why not include the conversion to XML with that preparation round? Actually, when you use kramdown-rfc to create XML, the original source = (combined!) is included in the XML as a comment (extract with = kramdown-rfc-extract-markdown), so we already have the best of both = worlds. Re the {::include fn} feature: I used to create documents like RFC 7400 = (which is mostly generated text) from a script. But then I found it easier to edit the text around the generated = snippets with the {::include fn} feature. Of course, there still needs to be a Makefile and the generation scripts = for the snippets themselves. (Including those in the markdown isn=E2=80=99t advisable for security = reasons.) While there is a bit of redundancy in ... ~~~~ file "ietf-sid-file@2020-02-05.yang" {::include ietf-sid-file@2020-02-05.yang} ~~~~ =E2=80=A6, I=E2=80=99m not sure avoiding that warrants a Perl script by = itself. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten --Apple-Mail=_634B3A97-B1E9-4359-A6A6-B4FCFE6F45C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = 7. Feb 2021, at 03:07, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

That actually is less helpful, = if you haven't uploaded all the required files
to the DT.

Right. =  So an include feature probably should include a preparation = feature that allows you to create a combined version to = upload.

But = why not include the conversion to XML with that preparation = round?

Actually,= when you use kramdown-rfc to create XML, the original source = (combined!) is included in the XML as a comment (extract with = kramdown-rfc-extract-markdown), so we already have the best of both = worlds.

Re the = {::include fn} feature:  I used to create documents like RFC 7400 = (which is mostly generated text) from a script.
But = then I found it easier to edit the text around the generated snippets = with the {::include fn} feature.
Of course, there = still needs to be a Makefile and the generation scripts for the snippets = themselves.
(Including those in the markdown = isn=E2=80=99t advisable for security reasons.)

While there is a bit of redundancy in = ...

~~~~
<CODE BEGINS> file "ietf-sid-file@2020-02-05.yang"
{::include ietf-sid-file@2020-02-05.yang}
<CODE ENDS>
~~~~

=E2=80=A6, I=E2=80=99= m not sure avoiding that warrants a Perl script by itself.

Gr=C3=BC=C3= =9Fe, Carsten

= --Apple-Mail=_634B3A97-B1E9-4359-A6A6-B4FCFE6F45C6-- From nobody Sat Feb 6 20:14:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBAF3A2F4D for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 20:14:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xjMqXlXdvX0b for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 20:14:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FC833A2F50 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 20:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DYG4w4fHPzyXn; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 05:14:24 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 05:14:24 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634364063.939214-c66b14a0261d339c515927a5f99bf564 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6973166E-4F7A-4923-A44E-B9E248980D8A@tzi.org> References: To: Paul Kyzivat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff Tool: too much right margin X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 04:14:32 -0000 draft-ietf-rum-rue-04.txt hasn=E2=80=99t made it to tools.ietf.org yet, = so I can only speculate: draft-ietf-rum-rue-03.txt has some very long = lines, which expand the left side of that comparison. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On 2021-02-06, at 20:49, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >=20 > When diffing (side by side) some drafts I find that there is extra = right margin in the left panel. This skews things so I can't see both = panels simultaneously. >=20 > I don't think this always happens, but I can't characterize when it = does and doesn't. An example of this can be seen diffing = draft-ietf-rum-rue-03/draft-ietf-rum-rue-04. >=20 > Any idea why this is happening and if I can do anything to fix it? >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Sat Feb 6 20:31:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F23143A2F77 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 20:31:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U4UdKiH6vXG4 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 20:31:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B192E3A2F76 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 20:31:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08CA389A9; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 23:34:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id YeFORskqG7iv; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 23:34:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99D10389A7; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 23:34:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B545C65; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 23:31:14 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann , RFC Interest , tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <139065E7-F8DF-418D-89E9-156BE35C4DFA@tzi.org> References: <161240956258.5082.18097054694330751435@ietfa.amsl.com> <15878309-55BA-4BE0-BD26-060308BA1270@tzi.org> <18192.1612647870@localhost> <29774.1612663657@localhost> <139065E7-F8DF-418D-89E9-156BE35C4DFA@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Recommendation 9 from Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 04:31:21 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: > While there is a bit of redundancy in ... > ~~~~ > file "ietf-sid-file@2020-02-05.yang" > {::include ietf-sid-file@2020-02-05.yang} > > ~~~~ > =E2=80=A6, I=E2=80=99m not sure avoiding that warrants a Perl script = by itself. Well, it started in XML days. And there were several yang files, and they got generated/processed with today's date inserted. Being sure to use the latest one was error prone at= one point. Edit one, but update the other reference... oops. And then sid files and tree files. I could probably submit an "::include-yang" patch to do the right thing, and maybe I should. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAfbRIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVdjgf/QKId9rV7trq1Ebzfobw2vMsncHDVCMt5lh/FueighCzbga27Lr/SF+CP oiPfnaSGIP+aF5PgChiE4ubv2+fHFHwANEA/eGEmuepcYmpF3JTYqiVIxG3oEQE9 9GFG9cFBe6RM//Xvq6/TjMBD152YVPv6CBqb+4oALzoiM+n+ouC6GBHHbKUiT1Eg oBaYGOtcOAq5pcJESW7O+jEee1VZch/UIy5rjlLrfaODVnAq2Ww2YHJ6QEfupPjz BikpEg4ya9fSroHbezBk0rwgfrPqa2F6EEaVHuu7OZNm2QHCe6WnBO6yBjoMBydu +V6TnTtuODgQok/pFVGjdffsR+yj+A== =Y/FV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Feb 7 08:48:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF563A1104 for ; 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Sun, 7 Feb 2021 11:48:09 -0500 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <6973166E-4F7A-4923-A44E-B9E248980D8A@tzi.org> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 11:48:07 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.16; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6973166E-4F7A-4923-A44E-B9E248980D8A@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: e03d8cf9-3c22-42c7-2f93-08d8cb88271d X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DM5PR12MB1945: X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:10000; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:18.7.68.33; CTRY:US; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:CAL; SFV:NSPM; H:outgoing-alum.mit.edu; PTR:outgoing-alum.mit.edu; CAT:NONE; SFS:(136003)(346002)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(46966006)(36840700001)(36860700001)(70206006)(8676002)(6916009)(2906002)(2616005)(956004)(75432002)(70586007)(8936002)(82310400003)(86362001)(31696002)(31686004)(186003)(26005)(53546011)(336012)(36906005)(786003)(316002)(47076005)(7596003)(478600001)(5660300002)(966005)(83380400001)(356005)(4326008)(82740400003)(43740500002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; X-OriginatorOrg: alum.mit.edu X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2021 16:48:10.4560 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e03d8cf9-3c22-42c7-2f93-08d8cb88271d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 3326b102-c043-408b-a990-b89e477d582f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=3326b102-c043-408b-a990-b89e477d582f; Ip=[18.7.68.33]; Helo=[outgoing-alum.mit.edu] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL2NAM02FT042.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR12MB1945 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff Tool: too much right margin X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 16:48:17 -0000 On 2/6/21 11:14 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > draft-ietf-rum-rue-04.txt hasn’t made it to tools.ietf.org yet, so I can only speculate: draft-ietf-rum-rue-03.txt has some very long lines, which expand the left side of that comparison. Weird stuff going on here, but your hint above does suggest the answer. I can do the diff between -03 and-04 by simply typing the names into the rfcdiff tool web page without any actual url information. So it is finding the files on the ietf site somehow. When I go to the tracker, the -04 version has a full complement of formats available, but -03 is lacking a plaintext format. There is however a htmlized(tools) format for it. When I look at that, I do find that there are some long lines, so that explains my problem. Thanks, Paul > Grüße, Carsten > > >> On 2021-02-06, at 20:49, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >> When diffing (side by side) some drafts I find that there is extra right margin in the left panel. This skews things so I can't see both panels simultaneously. >> >> I don't think this always happens, but I can't characterize when it does and doesn't. An example of this can be seen diffing draft-ietf-rum-rue-03/draft-ietf-rum-rue-04. >> >> Any idea why this is happening and if I can do anything to fix it? >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > From nobody Sun Feb 7 12:16:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877D93A12AA for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 12:16:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bAlSr3KSI6N7 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 12:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net (relay12.mail.gandi.net [217.70.178.232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8E773A12A9 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 12:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from maria (unknown [78.243.124.66]) (Authenticated sender: mailbox@rogerprice.org) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 342B2200002; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 20:16:09 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:16:08 +0100 (CET) From: Roger Price X-X-Sender: rprice@maria.rogerprice.org To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) X-Message-Flag: Supplemental report to reaper.nsa.gov. rc=0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Mailing lists overlap - merge them ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 20:16:18 -0000 On Wed Feb 3 19:32:42 PST 2021, IETF Executive Director wrote: > In October-November 2020 the IETF Administration LLC ran a survey of I-D > authors on the formats and tools that they use. ... > I recommend that any discussion on this subject takes place on either > rfc-interest at rfc-editor.org or tools-discuss at ietf.org as appropriate. This survey is very interesting, but the regular double posting shows that the two mailing lists overlap too much. I suggest merging them. Roger From nobody Sun Feb 7 13:28:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44683A135C for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:28:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ByaPsSFeCQlt for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:28:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x531.google.com (mail-pg1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 940563A135A for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:28:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x531.google.com with SMTP id g15so8950804pgu.9 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 13:28:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=O8rXJM7gGJj77whw/2ZEHOBUh7L+8Xy7g6SYcyXNuv0=; b=S8XxgL1w6ebYvWiusgUyHcUTujeIjWYtYruiN9H8KuIRwQJQLMV+g9dFryCFVKdTNa McYgS1RqjCl+fH7fYxO7P4fTDKBihrqlQE7a2RfeN4OVTGbRTYddCYGhbogL/g26mUvR EcNvR12QotBlDqe5z9ttbOfu19sYy7KZXKrLKoY3dQgIdg8rcG2WCt+YRn+jFII/oLol aevOfFx3O4PPMBtl9UvGj8va6kNFJ+Nx3aPJYU+aZ544GcR8OyX7nj2iUpjjIai4VXnL oiLl5KO0qCsgHs3BqGlQYNC4OO2VswwMmQk0K1sR/3+mADx1fyVMuSsteJuKjUhVxgUv 4P1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=O8rXJM7gGJj77whw/2ZEHOBUh7L+8Xy7g6SYcyXNuv0=; b=bZBhcwIMBDbyZHlC5GucEZUc/Essz5q14P4O6cyD4hfB9a9x3IaJJVDOgoI3Wq51cD jacIItednWja6Rcn/kVhfa0iUjvRulGX44KhWCEXXx593NjnyT8SLwlo4xv3N6p7jLVc zhaDyle2ttPbk9q8+W70iSV3hE/+qsxXgTtWD9hPEeYODOcpzlkgKJU4HdXHa+LFN0T6 if8n5wHBFu1vSdZJRasYo6HuCFNuJYHJY830KQUb+J9jek7GlerkQirv1FqoBysPy80c 3yCGR3x/nV1QLjpNXHkMd+eyccS9jsU6Iqo3/Vr8DElqx+kvTjToF2ew4BNqQBy5ST2d 2M3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533/z04OG0+mPVOPbGtYysyTZV10/O/B0xwxoVBQQVzAo+jrS+QJ 1bnmNhpQcVDoZMDoyDSue5XidpHyuz+m8g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz+H32rxa2b4dC3xqSC+xo9JuKQ0fEYaqoXTRs6vhDHlJZ2LiTa7xLZFFIm+G5WXsqYDOmemA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:515:: with SMTP id 21mr6307721pgf.231.1612733306476; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 13:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([151.210.131.28]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a8sm9824624pjs.40.2021.02.07.13.28.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Feb 2021 13:28:25 -0800 (PST) To: Roger Price , rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 10:26:21 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] Mailing lists overlap - merge them ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 21:28:29 -0000 On 08-Feb-21 09:16, Roger Price wrote: > On Wed Feb 3 19:32:42 PST 2021, IETF Executive Director wrote: > >> In October-November 2020 the IETF Administration LLC ran a survey of I-D >> authors on the formats and tools that they use. ... > >> I recommend that any discussion on this subject takes place on either >> rfc-interest at rfc-editor.org or tools-discuss at ietf.org as appropriate. > > This survey is very interesting, but the regular double posting shows > that the two mailing lists overlap too much. I suggest merging them. Bad idea. This topic does indeed interest both lists, but rfc-interest covers much, much more than tools-discuss (and is not an IETF list, in fact). Also, tools-discuss covers more that document prep tools. Brian From nobody Mon Feb 8 03:40:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E549C3A167C for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 03:40:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wa9uCi5v6QRt for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 03:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88EB23A1664 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 03:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:3432:1075:bc23:fd00] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:3432:1075:bc23:fd00]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BA7C60027B for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 13:40:29 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1612784429; bh=7O6VFpjz7EkfWFqQpVfQ3ojbmCQb1CedXJ5H7LwCPtc=; h=From:Subject:Date:To; b=wAbf16FH8vByIF6uzMxKnuJk0H2d5iQgzb0ElTtuez+9gSxASvf8LWfDiHUzukb/Z 0G/Pcz/iLTtagh1W5asX5iLXQ+nlwsxEtaNx7ltqZJxy6Jrwhp1RLJwc9VSfqZoFIS qk+EUCITuxmL0Ks4KSZ2kz9mG7Gz8hulX/QDYQF0= From: Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1AF545EF-B757-428E-8F47-9999D2556B72"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 13:40:27 +0200 To: tools-discuss X-MailScanner-ID: 7BA7C60027B.A4C5C X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Docker image w/the latest kramdown-rfc2629 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2021 11:40:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1AF545EF-B757-428E-8F47-9999D2556B72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, in case folks would like to experiment, = https://github.com/larseggert/i-d-toolchain is a repo auto-building a = docker image with the latest kramdown-rfc2629 and all dependencies = installed. Images are at = https://github.com/larseggert/i-d-toolchain/packages/608841 There's an example on how to use it in the README at the repo above. (This is similar in spirit to https://github.com/paulej/rfctools, but = that only seems to have xml2rfc installed, uses a base image that has a = bigger footprint, and hasn;t been updated in some years. Oh, and it has = mmark which mine doesn't yet.) I intend to add other tools such as idnits at some point. Maybe someone = beats me to it by sending PRs... Lars --Apple-Mail=_1AF545EF-B757-428E-8F47-9999D2556B72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAhIysACgkQVLXDCb9w wVfoDhAAzY1il8KQ/4JQE+n6Ne6iadNyjhJq/EMAQEQ9C0U0F4QTaITfKVfkZNi4 JX2yJhAnmofrgfadQO2LW3D+4KKI00zEVFQEaD2lz9bTcKyfVVTMdwq4hSAPRnTi K3aPlDSqgSwql6ar2i5o1iZX/5j0P+LYCpvp78dxY43ptG8+b/ljC1B8Y299r2tY 7GaOrjghIkAA3CxXIbTtnmxYt+HzBQC6KiIhajq9Eferd9yNY2d0ujD1bLef5M2o sYVgA934++m6HMjsVkrs81YKpCY2n4RBjIp4k3FBg3gox12pSAHytAd7SzXd6BzG ltxVJmO8N5Rq9bN6eeAk2b9sTDe3Luc5Gnsog4zSQzOpA//fwBuUVfdcEsod3yD0 1QAQI3j6/fgHjk5QwNA21mOrAvSl+nZpX6hXVRE4rT5kAX7d33Fq5PzZ8vBuhpVa bPnCyMWbDQO1Af3/0LUHAfO4SfAnUtl5BcRjZj6dFrf473tpI58wBEpiglgx41by WecF/Y1KIRXjgDb8mYm1opCo+IBRcIjjXLNXpBn+3g+U6NPayuKEfyxpThb85cV+ KLSsMiSAvY8kWwtI6wTUbAz+c5mOlHqttci4Z2PEHUbIxtgH1yn3R6NYmjHuAZD1 KKcvUbYNnbrPP4H6n38k+QS/5HQK50v/tLOsj3tCLNYVzgW+fR0= =is9Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1AF545EF-B757-428E-8F47-9999D2556B72-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 09:35:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7073A105E for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:35:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wLXsmqaCsJxu for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77A4C3A105B for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDDB4389C8 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 12:38:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Z772qfIm4OVw for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 12:38:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2EE5389C7 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 12:38:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C8634A for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 12:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] getting single list of subscribers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 17:35:34 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When looking at mailman, at the list of subscribers to a ML: Am I missing an option to view/download the list of subscribers in a single place? Vs clicking though the letters of the alphabet. (I want this because I want to find likely Document Shepherd volunteers) =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAix98ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUUzwgAuZePsMvvjwAoLXnPnTp067Wlw9fIMvpCxUQiuyeNqB7KFivofCvRdj2I wZyy4ju1ZFVwG0go2mcz0Z/dcwC1hRVskMQAfYlQtpt+u+0g8hKMqK+FE7kQctQP 7hl4SdiU1U5jJS4Bo3HlGapzt31LUIFLBxXBxtn+UpSUrfiye3YDuVP92FM56Bw+ MlLy2zQEc3EPCt0E8tyC08UwyN9ydbXw6UnEF9btcbZkPAFJYbqawCT6KAqPoyOH s7qtrNu3iY2i1A13rZ9naNM5DkZOuHVKuv7m+V4QgjQBB6VHyLpueXZUG94++ryP fxsnCisFKYaXE1FPTS+Hje6fzt3Kfg== =AN2G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 09:50:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1993A109C for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:50:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JfpfS1GhhLwl for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1F143A107F for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.60.113] (76-209-242-70.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net [76.209.242.70]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.proper.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 119HojdU054752 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Feb 2021 10:50:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.proper.com: Host 76-209-242-70.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net [76.209.242.70] claimed to be [10.32.60.113] From: "Paul Hoffman" To: "Michael Richardson" Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 09:50:42 -0800 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.2r5673) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <25969.1612892127@localhost> References: <25969.1612892127@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] getting single list of subscribers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 17:50:47 -0000 On 9 Feb 2021, at 9:35, Michael Richardson wrote: > When looking at mailman, at the list of subscribers to a ML: > > Am I missing an option to view/download the list of subscribers in a single > place? Vs clicking though the letters of the alphabet. > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/roster/listname-goes-here From nobody Tue Feb 9 10:00:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16C43A108F for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 10:00:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=att.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6DS0OBOQySub for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 10:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 659DD3A108B for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 10:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049463.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049463.ppops.net-00191d01. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b4eb0935-18b8-48e1-0abb-08d8cd2481ab X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Feb 2021 17:59:54.9916 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: e741d71c-c6b6-47b0-803c-0f3b32b07556 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9fFB5Wr/J4H3P2TjjA4tF4zPLNEc66DOeUOiukjvNiLnzSxAVMUCf3Z5iYjrJ/XZ X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR02MB4522 X-OriginatorOrg: att.com X-TM-SNTS-SMTP: 6833ECEABC4B357BBE1F9C7CB3E32420FA8EE8E07002519A2499612677CB87FF2 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.369, 18.0.737 definitions=2021-02-09_05:2021-02-09, 2021-02-09 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102090084 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Results and analysis of the survey of I-D authors on formats and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 18:00:14 -0000 In looking through the survey results and reading through the comments on t= he tools-discuss list (which I just now joined to participate in this conve= rsation), I think it would be useful to know how many of the people who use= one of the 2 markdown formats prefer using markdown over all other formats= .=20 I nearly wept with tears of joy when Carsten helped me switch a draft from = XML to MD and I no longer had to do battle with XML for it. It was so, so m= uch easier. I'm just always forgetting to put in the closing XML tags. And = finding those can sometimes be challenging and frustrating for me. And I'm = always looking up the more obscure tags. The kramdown conventions were so m= uch easier to learn/remember. I'm wondering what people who have been prima= ry author on fewer than 5 XML-written drafts would prefer if they were to t= ry MD. The people with extensive XML drafting experience are a group of peo= ple I have no wish to join, now that I've seen the MD light.=20 I'm also one of the people who participates in a lot of other orgs and thou= ght my IETF experience was worse. But that wasn't because the others use MS= Word. 2 of them use (Pandoc-suitable) MD. If the IETF MD format(s) had a c= entralized place to go for getting tools and templates and instructions (ra= ther than going to Martin's GH and Carsten's GH and Lars' GH etc.) and MD w= as "officially" supported, then I'd be happy. Even if the centralized IETF = place just had links to their GH sites or was a mirror. But with somewhat i= mproved instructions. And I don't care about what flavor of MD -- I use Atlassian, GH, Pandoc, kr= amdown, etc. Whatever. As long as it's documented. Barbara=20 From nobody Tue Feb 9 11:37:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27B93A1181 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 11:37:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8iW_yU-NucK2 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 11:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1219D3A1173 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 11:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 119JbgEA060683 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:37:43 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612899463; bh=Xcw05HpB66oXfzW2LEMlbgcXsf7nTFh38BhYuc4HNXs=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=HIx30klXffLlpibWtLf39rXXWzKh47Rcl5jTP47sQMbh2u41lBGiNwvhoyHjcp+CS QXBF4tG/ah6OYVAseOdh8HhH0Xjt8ZrnL4wJSCi6VsdXlnJ32bppT1YeWy5Yh/Er0z WMZzlIyiv3IKGbioYsfLjJxjMTDfeaQreuASjVIU= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <947.1612405162@localhost> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <15ea5446-3f90-b3bf-f10e-d3e5b58592fc@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:37:37 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <947.1612405162@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 19:37:48 -0000 On 2/3/21 8:19 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Robert Sparks wrote: > >> I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats= and > >> other related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). > > > We could add these other things, but I think we would then need = to add > > filters so people could select the information that they really = want. > > > I understand the general deconflicting use case. > > > It will likely be a stretch to get LLC board meetings and the li= ke into > > the datatracker - those are maintained in other systems. > > > Area meetings on the other hand should just be interims - are th= ey not > > being organized that way? > > No, because not all area meetings are WGs. > IoTDIR, RtgDIR. These things (review teams) are already configured to support meeting.=20 They can schedule interims just like WG/RG can. So can area groups alread= y. If you find a group type that should be able manage meetings in the=20 datatracker, but can't yet, let me know. RjS > > I also got push back about asking RtgArea "Chats" being in a calendar. > The result was conflicts. > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh net= works [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT archit= ect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rai= ls [ > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.= org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Tue Feb 9 12:43:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642793A0BDB for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 12:43:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aJVbUcItuIVo for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 12:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B931B3A0BDA for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 12:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DZvxZ35B1zyXT; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 21:43:46 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634596225.195737-d947b1040b9714a66a975b59f5d26475 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 21:43:45 +0100 Message-Id: To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] IANA bibxml glitch X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 20:43:53 -0000 I=E2=80=99m getting IANA bibxml that looks like this: Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Simple Values IANA from = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml8/reference.IANA.cbor-simp= le-values.xml?anchor=3DIANA.cbor-simple-values Note the missing closing quote for the anchor. (Probably a result of the recent rebuild.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Feb 9 13:22:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262C83A0CF2 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:22:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l6nmmgDtE6wk for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D18E3A0CF0 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC95F38A7C; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:26:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id gx8CtQa-j5Cm; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:26:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CE538A78; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:26:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EF534A; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:22:47 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Robert Sparks cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <15ea5446-3f90-b3bf-f10e-d3e5b58592fc@nostrum.com> References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <947.1612405162@localhost> <15ea5446-3f90-b3bf-f10e-d3e5b58592fc@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 21:22:51 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert Sparks wrote: > On 2/3/21 8:19 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: >> Robert Sparks wrote: >> >> I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats a= nd >> >> other related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). >> >> > We could add these other things, but I think we would then need to= add >> > filters so people could select the information that they really wa= nt. >> >> > I understand the general deconflicting use case. >> >> > It will likely be a stretch to get LLC board meetings and the like= into >> > the datatracker - those are maintained in other systems. >> >> > Area meetings on the other hand should just be interims - are they= not >> > being organized that way? >> >> No, because not all area meetings are WGs. >> IoTDIR, RtgDIR. > These things (review teams) are already configured to support meeting= . They > can schedule interims just like WG/RG can. So can area groups already. I thought that the last conversation we had between you, I and Ines, that IoTDIR was not configured in the right way to do this. Did that change? Maybe we just need to remind them again. > If you find a group type that should be able manage meetings in the > datatracker, but can't yet, let me know. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAi/SYACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWjHwf/TCYkHwJCTutNbNtixiGr4VzNKMxLqsFSgg8EsufVTzWS6GByHAOSggX7 jB+Iv6iaL7KnqGH1Jh97+Ht8bZersR7wSzWWE+qOKBmCFC82JqCuY9PKEijNGIyu j83k20gjXOcnByOq1s5GAvhUQD7tgUrg8LjbfYWpBOLVCcV3UsOJIm2rOEEUmbzQ q6L5MdCj3dr+3t0wZSbg1exRBLqJ9Mz7YZZn0aMOrjI+vZZwcDbkxlO8CTgbBGPw PAklS1WCW2NEUF3eCtQtem8pLIbDDMuLn9ObldTQ36tpz04WkpvRgbFT14MjbUK9 QaHR+rO8rwH0o1GaHcfJ00eZaReOog== =r/UQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 13:28:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1043A0D02 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:28:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X3u8X5dMRgjt for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 394483A0D01 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D53638AEA1; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:28:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eksEp_NIigdu; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-73-71-162-89.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [73.71.162.89]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C9E038AE98; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:28:19 -0800 (PST) From: Cindy Morgan Message-Id: <2EF86551-5EAD-4E29-9E92-B58D5E44B322@amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BFEC88A4-DD30-4F5B-9A8B-3EC08D6B6EC9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\)) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:28:19 -0800 In-Reply-To: <28578.1612905766@localhost> Cc: Robert Sparks , tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <947.1612405162@localhost> <15ea5446-3f90-b3bf-f10e-d3e5b58592fc@nostrum.com> <28578.1612905766@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 21:28:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BFEC88A4-DD30-4F5B-9A8B-3EC08D6B6EC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Feb 9, 2021, at 1:22 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Robert Sparks > = wrote: >> On 2/3/21 8:19 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: >>> Robert Sparks wrote: >>>>> I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats = and >>>>> other related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). >>>=20 >>>> We could add these other things, but I think we would then need to = add >>>> filters so people could select the information that they really = want. >>>=20 >>>> I understand the general deconflicting use case. >>>=20 >>>> It will likely be a stretch to get LLC board meetings and the like = into >>>> the datatracker - those are maintained in other systems. >>>=20 >>>> Area meetings on the other hand should just be interims - are they = not >>>> being organized that way? >>>=20 >>> No, because not all area meetings are WGs. >>> IoTDIR, RtgDIR. >=20 >> These things (review teams) are already configured to support = meeting. They >> can schedule interims just like WG/RG can. So can area groups = already. >=20 > I thought that the last conversation we had between you, I and Ines, = that > IoTDIR was not configured in the right way to do this. Did that = change? > Maybe we just need to remind them again. >=20 This actually came up today with IOTDIR. The chairs can=E2=80=99t = schedule a meeting themselves=E2=80=94it looks like they can, but then = it doesn=E2=80=99t actually work for them. However, from playing in the = sandbox, the Secretariat can schedule interim meetings for Directorates. That said, when we got the request from Ines, we (Secretariat) checked = with the IESG, and the IESG would prefer to not have Directorate = meetings listed in the public calendar (and have the invite go to = IETF-Announce), since those meetings aren=E2=80=99t open to everyone. Thanks, Cindy >> If you find a group type that should be able manage meetings in the >> datatracker, but can't yet, let me know. >=20 >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson > . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --Apple-Mail=_BFEC88A4-DD30-4F5B-9A8B-3EC08D6B6EC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Feb 9, 2021, at 1:22 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:


Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
On = 2/3/21 8:19 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
I would = like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telechats and
other related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.).

We could add these other things, but I think we = would then need to add
filters so people could select the = information that they really want.

I understand the general = deconflicting use case.

It will likely be a = stretch to get LLC board meetings and the like into
the = datatracker - those are maintained in other systems.

Area meetings on the other hand should just be interims - are = they not
being organized that way?

No, because not all area meetings = are WGs.
IoTDIR, RtgDIR.

These things (review teams) are = already configured to support meeting. They
can schedule = interims just like WG/RG can. So can area groups already.

I thought that the last conversation we had between you, I = and Ines, that
IoTDIR was not configured in the right way to do this. Did = that change?
Maybe we just = need to remind them again.


This actually came up today with IOTDIR. The = chairs can=E2=80=99t schedule a meeting themselves=E2=80=94it looks like = they can, but then it doesn=E2=80=99t actually work for them. However, = from playing in the sandbox, the Secretariat can schedule interim = meetings for Directorates.

That = said, when we got the request from Ines, we (Secretariat) checked with = the IESG, and the IESG would prefer to not have Directorate meetings = listed in the public calendar (and have the invite go to IETF-Announce), = since those meetings aren=E2=80=99t open to everyone.

Thanks,
Cindy

If = you find a group type that should be able manage meetings in the
datatracker, but can't yet, let me know.


--
Michael = Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulting )
          San= delman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide




___________________________________________________________
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This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug = reports.
* Report = datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss<= /div>

= --Apple-Mail=_BFEC88A4-DD30-4F5B-9A8B-3EC08D6B6EC9-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 13:51:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EEE3A0D5C for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:51:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id feZaZBhIUo9p for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3740B3A0D52 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD78138A45; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id vhwY3bZKVyL6; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A06238A3E; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96EF34A; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:51:34 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Cindy Morgan , Robert Sparks , tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <2EF86551-5EAD-4E29-9E92-B58D5E44B322@amsl.com> References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <947.1612405162@localhost> <15ea5446-3f90-b3bf-f10e-d3e5b58592fc@nostrum.com> <28578.1612905766@localhost> <2EF86551-5EAD-4E29-9E92-B58D5E44B322@amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 21:51:43 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cindy Morgan wrote: >> I thought that the last conversation we had between you, I and Ines,= that >> IoTDIR was not configured in the right way to do this. Did that chan= ge? >> Maybe we just need to remind them again. >> > This actually came up today with IOTDIR. The chairs can=E2=80=99t sch= edule a > meeting themselves=E2=80=94it looks like they can, but then it doesn= =E2=80=99t actually > work for them. However, from playing in the sandbox, the Secretariat > can schedule interim meetings for Directorates. Ah. > That said, when we got the request from Ines, we (Secretariat) checked > with the IESG, and the IESG would prefer to not have Directorate > meetings listed in the public calendar (and have the invite go to > IETF-Announce), since those meetings aren=E2=80=99t open to everyone. I see. IOTDIR is now open. (IOT-Directorate wasn't. Or have I the names swapped) But, the point of having meetings in a calendar is so that people don't get double booked. It seems that maybe we need to be able to mark the meeting = as more private, so no meeting info is put in the calendar. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAjA+YACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW5lwf/VvCs7ZdSxX0GSdRvnNID1JyRj1SN4NFjX2e987qd1MohX+mw9eU5T/CI fJhMZZjCo/AC8h/yenvdk3t16fDCtqCpvi3HECxKDfW4SKHZVf7THVaUxRR4JOPL wiQmkfoEjvs8bPeBMcwRe6bRGl9Yu2I1urcqB4b/PuRLVFvFMnET2uqq8dvQ8mOy GZr/VE2j89IdFhLOQIzZbWhkYrCrNbW5DJQWmETRl5PYYCm8yc+5w1vPOTe2vb5g u1f6iXLtQETqbR1H2w6yiZcKSF4/NYUtAvLD853iCpc7YBRk95ggX69WsqRkXWj9 cDUAuh0X/hvl+SnkGxDsgLCkkG0g0w== =O8D5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 13:55:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3BE3A0D71 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:55:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nyDa0H21xQ0P for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72F883A0D70 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 119LtSVD008815 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:55:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612907729; bh=ikL04CXvKV6H+hE/PP5QD0QE9tJvomeJHQZKho+Vz+0=; h=To:Cc:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=ZWmSREjdvpBxw9awc2Tu2knKq2LaP3XKzNKdWg6Uat9Shg0VM0UW54rwjUuPzKkQY g+QaJtBAHr4qCHRHl0Kj7u8Ervc2qK9+ghgqDjlhJnznbJ+fh5L0u5s5urC9om4EL7 nMZfSCnHq4J/IuMUmTCcLIlSj753kvilxKLa3qxc= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Michael Richardson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <947.1612405162@localhost> <15ea5446-3f90-b3bf-f10e-d3e5b58592fc@nostrum.com> <28578.1612905766@localhost> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:55:23 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <28578.1612905766@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 21:55:33 -0000 On 2/9/21 3:22 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Robert Sparks wrote: > > On 2/3/21 8:19 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > >> Robert Sparks wrote: > >> >> I would like it if the upcoming.ics included the IESG Telech= ats and > >> >> other related things (LLC board, RTG area meetings, etc.). > >> > >> > We could add these other things, but I think we would then ne= ed to add > >> > filters so people could select the information that they real= ly want. > >> > >> > I understand the general deconflicting use case. > >> > >> > It will likely be a stretch to get LLC board meetings and the= like into > >> > the datatracker - those are maintained in other systems. > >> > >> > Area meetings on the other hand should just be interims - are= they not > >> > being organized that way? > >> > >> No, because not all area meetings are WGs. > >> IoTDIR, RtgDIR. > > > These things (review teams) are already configured to support me= eting. They > > can schedule interims just like WG/RG can. So can area groups al= ready. > > I thought that the last conversation we had between you, I and Ines, th= at > IoTDIR was not configured in the right way to do this. Did that change?= > Maybe we just need to remind them again. Yes, it did - we had a round of discussion with all the review team=20 chairs which was positive for making the change, and it was made in=20 November. Ines engaged in the thread and acknowledged the change at the=20 time. > > > If you find a group type that should be able manage meetings in = the > > datatracker, but can't yet, let me know. > > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T cons= ulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > > From nobody Tue Feb 9 14:09:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29E123A0DD5 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:09:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.281 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RQ3I0gCDJmst for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:09:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E61733A0DD4 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:09:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 119M9V26013666 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:09:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1612908572; bh=LPZWYfBW06Y7HEtAn4sv7udw8AkUFgz20KbFPsGh1ZI=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=lgoik/suDO/L1+xyQ2gfhsbHBIz2AYkkdpmCV0sDW9Ypd8BiWHgYJTpaqVMqGlvWb Ksdl1WA9Kmm7yEhw9umA4LwNG8w1YlcZFgw4Bang6aBB0m4FqUzUFRLRCFHMzBZjWm XD0SJZfC1O1mfzk8SMjAx/0nO8B+KmgN8eKAwtDs= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Michael Richardson , Cindy Morgan , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <947.1612405162@localhost> <15ea5446-3f90-b3bf-f10e-d3e5b58592fc@nostrum.com> <28578.1612905766@localhost> <2EF86551-5EAD-4E29-9E92-B58D5E44B322@amsl.com> <16150.1612907494@localhost> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <95d5915c-49a0-61e3-4876-16f3be30dc62@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:09:25 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <16150.1612907494@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 22:09:34 -0000 On 2/9/21 3:51 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Cindy Morgan wrote: > >> I thought that the last conversation we had between you, I and Ines, that > >> IoTDIR was not configured in the right way to do this. Did that change? > >> Maybe we just need to remind them again. > >> > > > This actually came up today with IOTDIR. The chairs can’t schedule a > > meeting themselves—it looks like they can, but then it doesn’t actually > > work for them. However, from playing in the sandbox, the Secretariat > > can schedule interim meetings for Directorates. That's a bug - it is intended that they be able to request them themselves. > > Ah. > > > That said, when we got the request from Ines, we (Secretariat) checked > > with the IESG, and the IESG would prefer to not have Directorate > > meetings listed in the public calendar (and have the invite go to > > IETF-Announce), since those meetings aren’t open to everyone. > > I see. > IOTDIR is now open. (IOT-Directorate wasn't. Or have I the names swapped) > > But, the point of having meetings in a calendar is so that people don't get > double booked. It seems that maybe we need to be able to mark the meeting as > more private, so no meeting info is put in the calendar. Indeed - We can change the code so that the announcements for teams like this don't go to ietf-announce. We could even talk about requirements about when they show on the upcoming page, and whether coordinates appear there (but keep Michael's point about conflicts in mind), but it would be _very_ useful for these teams to be able to use the materials management capabilities that they asked for. > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > > From nobody Tue Feb 9 16:01:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E2A3A103C for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:00:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jIH8V5Z8yVpH for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5542D3A103F for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAD038A51 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id W2HRzf4PIEx1 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B10A38A4F for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7969F934 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:00:52 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <95d5915c-49a0-61e3-4876-16f3be30dc62@nostrum.com> References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <947.1612405162@localhost> <15ea5446-3f90-b3bf-f10e-d3e5b58592fc@nostrum.com> <28578.1612905766@localhost> <2EF86551-5EAD-4E29-9E92-B58D5E44B322@amsl.com> <16150.1612907494@localhost> <95d5915c-49a0-61e3-4876-16f3be30dc62@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Important dates in upcoming.ics X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 00:00:59 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert Sparks wrote: >> > That said, when we got the request from Ines, we (Secretariat) che= cked >> > with the IESG, and the IESG would prefer to not have Directorate >> > meetings listed in the public calendar (and have the invite go to >> > IETF-Announce), since those meetings aren=E2=80=99t open to everyo= ne. >> >> I see. >> IOTDIR is now open. (IOT-Directorate wasn't. Or have I the names swa= pped) >> >> But, the point of having meetings in a calendar is so that people do= n't get >> double booked. It seems that maybe we need to be able to mark the m= eeting as >> more private, so no meeting info is put in the calendar. > Indeed - We can change the code so that the announcements for teams l= ike this > don't go to ietf-announce. We could even talk about requirements abou= t when > they show on the upcoming page, and whether coordinates appear there = (but > keep Michael's point about conflicts in mind), but it would be _very_= useful > for these teams to be able to use the materials management capabiliti= es that > they asked for. Cool, I think that we are on the same page here. Some WGs use virtual interim meetings almost like Design Team meetings, and other WGs let design teams fend completely for themselves, and don't even talk to the WG until they post a draft. My model (which RATS Architecture and ANIMA BRSKI-extensions has used) is that we have open Design Team meetings, and the ML is notified, but we don't take many notes beyond attendance. People show up who are involved. They don't show up on calendars today. I don't know if they should/could in the future. Some reason I'd like to make this activity more visible is because: 1) it can be hard for newcomers to find this activity. Physical meetings = tend to gravitate to an actual bar, and you have to be in the "in-group" to kn= ow to even ask. 2) I think that the open design team model (particularly with github supp= ort) is a good model to emulate, but some groups of people do not include a person who can actually organize the required shared screen + audio. Okay, after 2020, you'd think everyone would have some accounts, but y= et it is still often not the case. In case you want to know my definition: for me, it's design team activity if words in an ID get moved around in real time during the meeting. Whether that's with a shared screen view of someone's emacs editor, or via github "Suggestion" buttons. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAjIjQACgkQgItw+93Q 3WX4HAf9Fq/z/D9jpw+uqke9tbuNsRKJT5oolMcKEVhwI+L25vaRQukHMVR4wjwG DbYVzbbyihSOklhUIG2hvdU9Z6CKOPEto1RcQdKSDKRMtpd00XKmbSSjIh7j0/Jp MxVAWGNkeoQf7HETFh+CzpdDsjFO2qc6MkeY75kbi9J4FeXuCjUDBgo/8uag20Oj iyxGv/7bcnWANMuMYcX8cP6qcj68fk0DiGnOVthQbRGq03B/S/AVdikSxac7g9l8 z+NvTpATdkcNyI+h1GNwHfJk40IcLzLwnr46u4ASz0+Bn5eweQvRqnhe5yQJ02cu 0LO/YWnr3APAOTGaNrAFxf3XVx4oWQ== =Hq5Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Feb 10 23:27:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F28E3A1269; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 23:27:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aILCzmNMtQJE; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 23:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B3883A1268; Wed, 10 Feb 2021 23:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dbp9v4hKrzyWc; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 08:27:31 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <14ff90dd-c1f0-4888-fe45-ad9cb84202c8@ghaccess.se> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 08:27:31 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss , IETF AVTCore WG X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634721250.815989-90d357925f6ddf10eb3031af6ad26485 Reply-To: tools-discuss Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <82d59eea-1565-9ee7-ec9b-e695fad726f8@ghaccess.se> <8076c400-a49a-3cc0-f7fc-b699dd8f9880@ghaccess.se> <72d71326-8d32-9f48-2eaa-a9a148e53d5a@ghaccess.se> <3D342ADA-FB67-4FE6-925F-D7F62E9A0B15@tzi.org> <14ff90dd-c1f0-4888-fe45-ad9cb84202c8@ghaccess.se> To: =?utf-8?Q?Gunnar_Hellstr=C3=B6m?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [AVTCORE] IDNits issue with draft-ietf-avtcore-multi-party-rtt-mix-12 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 07:27:39 -0000 Reply-To set to tools-discuss. On 2021-02-11, at 07:53, Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m = wrote: >=20 > Carsten, >=20 > Yes, the allowed "=C3=B6" in the author name in a reference was not = borderline. >=20 > I tried with ignoring the idnits warning. But then the submission tool = refused to submit. Did it give an error message? The clue may be in there. > I gave it both the .xml and the .txt files. Maybe it would have been = accepted if I only provided the .xml ? =20 That is generally now what you want to do, indeed. You may want to convert it into RFCXMLv3 as well in order to get proper = HTML output; xml2rfc --v2v3 my-draft.xml =E2=80=A6gives you an my-draft.v2v3.xml that you can submit. The submission page does not currently go to the length of revealing = this (or anything else you need to know to submit in an RFCXMLv3 world). > Will the submission tool also be updated soon to support and guide = submission of files with non-ascii? It sure already supports beyond-ASCII input in those cases where RFC = 7997 allows it, and author names (as well as figures) are among those. > For me, I could very well continue to use "Hellstrom" as my IETF name But that is not your name. > but was offered to use "Hellstr=C3=B6m" as full name in RFC 8865 and = thereby in its reference. Now I do not want that to cause submission = problems if we are in a transition phase to a non-ascii world. Well, the reference is in that RFC. That RFC will not be changed, so = anybody referencing that RFC would have a problem if that were indeed a = problem. And 8899, 8893, 8790, ... > Apologies for continuing on this non-avtcore topic here. We should = move to a more suitable group. (Please send any reply to tools-discuss and not avtcore.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Gunnar >=20 > Den 2021-02-11 kl. 00:29, skrev Carsten Bormann: >> Folks, the purpose of draft writing is not to placate idnits, but to = get work done. >>=20 >> Changing [] into () just to get one idnits warning less strikes me as = borderline. >>=20 >> Asking for a name to be mangled (o for =C3=B6) because idnits is = pointing out the =C3=B6 just in case, is no longer borderline=E2=80=A6 >> No, the reference xml is exactly right, and nothing should be changed = here. >>=20 >> Please simply ignore warnings that are irrelevant/false positives. >> An updated idnits is coming soon... >>=20 >> Apologies for this public service message. >>=20 >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 2021-02-10, at 21:36, Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m = wrote: >>>=20 >>> I submitted version -13, .xml and .txt, but needed first to = hand-edit the .txt file to replace =C3=B6 with o to get it accepted. >>>=20 >>> I am afraid the reference xml for RFC 8865 needs to be changed to = ASCII and eventually the nits and submission tools modified to accept = non-ascii where it is allowed. >>>=20 >>> I will report to the tools group. >>>=20 >>> Gunnar >>>=20 >>> Den 2021-02-10 kl. 20:34, skrev Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m: >>>> I made the changes to reduce the nits errors and comments. >>>>=20 >>>> A new nits warning appeared: >>>>=20 >>>> Checking nits according to = https://www.ietf.org/id-info/1id-guidelines.txt >>>> : >>>> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >>>>=20 >>>> =3D=3D There is 1 instance of lines with non-ascii characters in = the document. >>>>=20 >>>> This refers to the reference of the new RFC 8865, where I was = offered to spell my last name properly "Hellstr=C3=B6m" in the author = element. >>>>=20 >>>> [RFC8865] Holmberg, C. and G. Hellstr=C3=B6m, "T.140 Real-Time = Text >>>> Conversation over WebRTC Data Channels", RFC 8865, >>>> DOI 10.17487/RFC8865, January 2021, >>>> . >>>>=20 >>>> I assume that this is manageable, so I intend to submit. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Gunnar >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> --=20 >>>> Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m >>>> GHAccess >>>>=20 >>>> gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Den 2021-02-10 kl. 18:37, skrev Bernard Aboba: >>>>> You might consider using () instead of [] to avoid confusing = IDnits. >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:14 AM Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m = wrote: >>>>> Bernard, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yes, I can and will resubmit with the issues fixed. >>>>>=20 >>>>> However, one warning was because the nits check found what looks = like a reference in brackets, but is part of a symbolic screen picture = example containing a source label for text in brackets. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This was the warning: >>>>>=20 >>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>> =3D=3D Missing Reference: 'Bob' is mentioned on line 1427, but = not >>>>> defined >>>>> '|[mix][Bob] And I on Wednesday evening. | |...' >>>>> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>>=20 >>>>> May I keep the format of this picture as it is? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Regarding the comment about pre-RFC5378 work, I have the required = grants to the BCP78 rights. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Gunnar >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Den 2021-02-10 kl. 09:01, skrev Bernard Aboba: >>>>>> Just ran IDnits on the document and got an error (see below). = Can you fix the issues and resubmit the document? >>>>>> idnits 2.16.05 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> --=20 >>>>>> Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m >>>>>> GHAccess >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se >>> --=20 >>> Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m >>> GHAccess >>>=20 >>> gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance >>> avt@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt >=20 > --=20 > Gunnar Hellstr=C3=B6m > GHAccess > gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se From nobody Thu Feb 11 01:26:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5E63A1405 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 01:26:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=egensajt.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id slm2WpuXFlVi for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 01:26:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.egensajt.se (smtp.egensajt.se [194.68.80.251]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E101B3A1403 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 01:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.137] (h77-53-37-81.cust.a3fiber.se [77.53.37.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se) by smtp.egensajt.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 84E3C202D5 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 10:26:14 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=egensajt.se; s=dkim; t=1613035574; bh=mcI89TPhTnVj7sEv8Io/hdxdJGWpB1Zh7I/4VmmpHcw=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=t3g3VxPdMntZkW14M3ik3D9kZP2Dmro58jLc2NHyb5yRgheTZg5+O8E3j0YMC0TwR 0s9QeNOeSBEd+TIGSvuaClfzIMlPWn29IGjW9rozcxjN4nFashum8kf1tNzDK6o+jG iUzBnuC+ExK/wvGBV04NwGYplFGIfkdMJoS4EBUM= To: tools-discuss References: <82d59eea-1565-9ee7-ec9b-e695fad726f8@ghaccess.se> <8076c400-a49a-3cc0-f7fc-b699dd8f9880@ghaccess.se> <72d71326-8d32-9f48-2eaa-a9a148e53d5a@ghaccess.se> <3D342ADA-FB67-4FE6-925F-D7F62E9A0B15@tzi.org> <14ff90dd-c1f0-4888-fe45-ad9cb84202c8@ghaccess.se> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Gunnar_Hellstr=c3=b6m?= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 10:26:07 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: sv Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] submit and IDNits issue with draft-ietf-avtcore-multi-party-rtt-mix-12 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 09:26:26 -0000 By the xml for a reference to RFC 8865, I got an "ö" from the author name into a draft. This was from the xml2rfc process. IDnits warned, and when I tried to submit both the xml (v3) file and the txt file, the submit tool refused with error message and red frames in the form. I edited the txt file to replace the "ö" with an "o", and succeeded to submit draft-ietf-avtcore-multi-party-rtt-mix-13 in both xml and txt format. By that, the result is that the html file contains "ö" but the txt file has "o" in the same place. No problem in this case, but it would be good if the submission procedure did not cause an error. RFC 8865 has "ö" even in the .txt file, so apparently RFC 7997 is in force in practice. Questions: 1. Can this problem be bypassed for now by just submitting the xml file including a reference to RFC 8865? 2. Will the submit tool be updated to allow non-ascii contents in txt files, so that others referencing e.g. RFC 8865 will not be stopped by errors in the submission? 3. RFC 7997 recommends to let a non-ascii string be followed by a corresponding ascii string in parenthesis. That will look awkward for this case where the non-ascii is "Hellström" and the evident corresponding string is "Hellstrom". Should the author in RFC 8865 have been "Hellström (Hellstrom)" or is it up to the editor to assess the need for the explaining parenthesis? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards Gunnar Hellström Den 2021-02-11 kl. 08:27, skrev Carsten Bormann: > Reply-To set to tools-discuss. > > On 2021-02-11, at 07:53, Gunnar Hellström wrote: >> Carsten, >> >> Yes, the allowed "ö" in the author name in a reference was not borderline. >> >> I tried with ignoring the idnits warning. But then the submission tool refused to submit. > Did it give an error message? The clue may be in there. > >> I gave it both the .xml and the .txt files. Maybe it would have been accepted if I only provided the .xml ? > That is generally now what you want to do, indeed. > You may want to convert it into RFCXMLv3 as well in order to get proper HTML output; > > xml2rfc --v2v3 my-draft.xml > > …gives you an my-draft.v2v3.xml that you can submit. > The submission page does not currently go to the length of revealing this (or anything else you need to know to submit in an RFCXMLv3 world). > >> Will the submission tool also be updated soon to support and guide submission of files with non-ascii? > It sure already supports beyond-ASCII input in those cases where RFC 7997 allows it, and author names (as well as figures) are among those. > >> For me, I could very well continue to use "Hellstrom" as my IETF name > But that is not your name. > >> but was offered to use "Hellström" as full name in RFC 8865 and thereby in its reference. Now I do not want that to cause submission problems if we are in a transition phase to a non-ascii world. > Well, the reference is in that RFC. That RFC will not be changed, so anybody referencing that RFC would have a problem if that were indeed a problem. > And 8899, 8893, 8790, ... > >> Apologies for continuing on this non-avtcore topic here. We should move to a more suitable group. > (Please send any reply to tools-discuss and not avtcore.) > > Grüße, Carsten > >> Thanks, >> >> Gunnar >> >> Den 2021-02-11 kl. 00:29, skrev Carsten Bormann: >>> Folks, the purpose of draft writing is not to placate idnits, but to get work done. >>> >>> Changing [] into () just to get one idnits warning less strikes me as borderline. >>> >>> Asking for a name to be mangled (o for ö) because idnits is pointing out the ö just in case, is no longer borderline… >>> No, the reference xml is exactly right, and nothing should be changed here. >>> >>> Please simply ignore warnings that are irrelevant/false positives. >>> An updated idnits is coming soon... >>> >>> Apologies for this public service message. >>> >>> Grüße, Carsten >>> >>> >>>> On 2021-02-10, at 21:36, Gunnar Hellström wrote: >>>> >>>> I submitted version -13, .xml and .txt, but needed first to hand-edit the .txt file to replace ö with o to get it accepted. >>>> >>>> I am afraid the reference xml for RFC 8865 needs to be changed to ASCII and eventually the nits and submission tools modified to accept non-ascii where it is allowed. >>>> >>>> I will report to the tools group. >>>> >>>> Gunnar >>>> >>>> Den 2021-02-10 kl. 20:34, skrev Gunnar Hellström: >>>>> I made the changes to reduce the nits errors and comments. >>>>> >>>>> A new nits warning appeared: >>>>> >>>>> Checking nits according to https://www.ietf.org/id-info/1id-guidelines.txt >>>>> : >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> == There is 1 instance of lines with non-ascii characters in the document. >>>>> >>>>> This refers to the reference of the new RFC 8865, where I was offered to spell my last name properly "Hellström" in the author element. >>>>> >>>>> [RFC8865] Holmberg, C. and G. Hellström, "T.140 Real-Time Text >>>>> Conversation over WebRTC Data Channels", RFC 8865, >>>>> DOI 10.17487/RFC8865, January 2021, >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> I assume that this is manageable, so I intend to submit. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gunnar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gunnar Hellström >>>>> GHAccess >>>>> >>>>> gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Den 2021-02-10 kl. 18:37, skrev Bernard Aboba: >>>>>> You might consider using () instead of [] to avoid confusing IDnits. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:14 AM Gunnar Hellström wrote: >>>>>> Bernard, >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I can and will resubmit with the issues fixed. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, one warning was because the nits check found what looks like a reference in brackets, but is part of a symbolic screen picture example containing a source label for text in brackets. >>>>>> >>>>>> This was the warning: >>>>>> >>>>>> ================================================================== >>>>>> == Missing Reference: 'Bob' is mentioned on line 1427, but not >>>>>> defined >>>>>> '|[mix][Bob] And I on Wednesday evening. | |...' >>>>>> =================================================================== >>>>>> >>>>>> May I keep the format of this picture as it is? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the comment about pre-RFC5378 work, I have the required grants to the BCP78 rights. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Gunnar >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Den 2021-02-10 kl. 09:01, skrev Bernard Aboba: >>>>>>> Just ran IDnits on the document and got an error (see below). Can you fix the issues and resubmit the document? >>>>>>> idnits 2.16.05 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Gunnar Hellström >>>>>>> GHAccess >>>>>>> >>>>>>> gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se >>>> -- >>>> Gunnar Hellström >>>> GHAccess >>>> >>>> gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance >>>> avt@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt >> -- >> Gunnar Hellström >> GHAccess >> gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se -- Gunnar Hellström GHAccess gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se From nobody Thu Feb 11 01:55:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1206C3A1420 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 01:55:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AIZBBf8l4JMp for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 01:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 878693A141E for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 01:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DbsSk0MsTzybX; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 10:55:34 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 10:55:33 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634730133.391813-e73c22c2fad4cba2aa2da9c01b7e494f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <82d59eea-1565-9ee7-ec9b-e695fad726f8@ghaccess.se> <8076c400-a49a-3cc0-f7fc-b699dd8f9880@ghaccess.se> <72d71326-8d32-9f48-2eaa-a9a148e53d5a@ghaccess.se> <3D342ADA-FB67-4FE6-925F-D7F62E9A0B15@tzi.org> <14ff90dd-c1f0-4888-fe45-ad9cb84202c8@ghaccess.se> To: =?utf-8?Q?Gunnar_Hellstr=C3=B6m?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] submit and IDNits issue with draft-ietf-avtcore-multi-party-rtt-mix-12 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 09:55:40 -0000 > Questions: (My) Answers: > 1. Can this problem be bypassed for now by just submitting the xml = file including a reference to RFC 8865? Yes. > 2. Will the submit tool be updated to allow non-ascii contents in txt = files, so that others referencing e.g. RFC 8865 will not be stopped by = errors in the submission? (Don=E2=80=99t know.) > 3. RFC 7997 recommends to let a non-ascii string be followed by a = corresponding ascii string in parenthesis. That will look awkward for = this case where the non-ascii is "Hellstr=C3=B6m" and the evident = corresponding string is "Hellstrom". Should the author in RFC 8865 have = been "Hellstr=C3=B6m (Hellstrom)" or is it up to the editor to assess = the need for the explaining parenthesis? The current state, as hinted at in = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/xml2rfc-doc.html is that Latin script is generally allowed in the places where RFC 7991 = uses the term ASCII, except in running text (a specification limitation = that I hope will soon be addressed); and that non-Latin script requires = an ASCII equivalent, so that if somebody is called =E2=80=9C=E6=AF=9B=E6=B3= =BD=E4=B8=9C=E2=80=9D the reader gets to know that they could try to = remember that name as =E2=80=9CMao Zedong=E2=80=9D. The =C3=B6 in Hellstr=C3=B6m is Latin script, as are =C4=8D and =C4=87 = in the name Mali=C5=A1a Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87, so you can =E2=80=9Cread=E2=80=9D= that (even if you have no clue what the difference in pronunciation is = going to be :-) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Feb 11 02:37:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C890B3A14C7 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 02:37:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=egensajt.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oECkpVD_8p6W for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 02:37:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.egensajt.se (smtp.egensajt.se [194.68.80.251]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F9703A14C6 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 02:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.137] (h77-53-37-81.cust.a3fiber.se [77.53.37.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se) by smtp.egensajt.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 20A62200CA; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:37:48 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=egensajt.se; s=dkim; t=1613039868; bh=HkTIzZwrGULfCtb2LpVITD8TLCKHnFZ7xBPluQmbR30=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=HyjZ3qDr30dHif4Z1cz4QumVgdHBZb1s4L2bYJE1hBqC5ejgTCwqc7Ug+sbQp6UOU k2FejEmTxU1Q7LBj14RS9FqFWqPhljhmE94Kmey3WK/M4RkNwZxyTjekImzrDiRiQm XriiHC6zfJSHWx4PdVDWsk9Mzut0XKAiVNRhpcp8= To: Carsten Bormann Cc: tools-discuss References: <82d59eea-1565-9ee7-ec9b-e695fad726f8@ghaccess.se> <8076c400-a49a-3cc0-f7fc-b699dd8f9880@ghaccess.se> <72d71326-8d32-9f48-2eaa-a9a148e53d5a@ghaccess.se> <3D342ADA-FB67-4FE6-925F-D7F62E9A0B15@tzi.org> <14ff90dd-c1f0-4888-fe45-ad9cb84202c8@ghaccess.se> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Gunnar_Hellstr=c3=b6m?= Message-ID: <76e95330-1729-1fd9-ab20-0629787b9231@ghaccess.se> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:37:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: sv Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] submit and IDNits issue with draft-ietf-avtcore-multi-party-rtt-mix-12 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 10:37:55 -0000 Thanks Carsten for good answers. So, then the only remaining issue is if the submission form can be modified to prefer xml and not accept both xml and txt files. Or the tool be modified to accept non-ascii in txt files. (and also for IDnits to not warn for non-ascii as you promised in earlier discussions is on its way) Gunnar Den 2021-02-11 kl. 10:55, skrev Carsten Bormann: >> Questions: > (My) Answers: > >> 1. Can this problem be bypassed for now by just submitting the xml file including a reference to RFC 8865? > Yes. > >> 2. Will the submit tool be updated to allow non-ascii contents in txt files, so that others referencing e.g. RFC 8865 will not be stopped by errors in the submission? > (Don’t know.) > >> 3. RFC 7997 recommends to let a non-ascii string be followed by a corresponding ascii string in parenthesis. That will look awkward for this case where the non-ascii is "Hellström" and the evident corresponding string is "Hellstrom". Should the author in RFC 8865 have been "Hellström (Hellstrom)" or is it up to the editor to assess the need for the explaining parenthesis? > The current state, as hinted at in https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/xml2rfc-doc.html > is that Latin script is generally allowed in the places where RFC 7991 uses the term ASCII, except in running text (a specification limitation that I hope will soon be addressed); and that non-Latin script requires an ASCII equivalent, so that if somebody is called “毛泽东” the reader gets to know that they could try to remember that name as “Mao Zedong”. > > The ö in Hellström is Latin script, as are č and ć in the name Mališa Vučinić, so you can “read” that (even if you have no clue what the difference in pronunciation is going to be :-) > > Grüße, Carsten > -- Gunnar Hellström GHAccess gunnar.hellstrom@ghaccess.se From nobody Thu Feb 11 05:52:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2743A15FA for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 05:52:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id stgOI-RHQTlZ for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 05:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E24693A15F9 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 05:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DbykR4djKzyV4; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:52:47 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:52:47 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634744367.023491-808dfb89a5fa746b0d00cc165676da9a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5C67EEE6-B9BE-4955-BBEF-B4BAB9FD3CE3@tzi.org> References: To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IANA bibxml glitch X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 13:52:53 -0000 And one more bibxml glitch: $ curl -s = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.ietf-ace-o= auth-authz.xml | grep seri =E2=80=A6returns=E2=80=A6 ...and not the current -37. (Properly caught by idnits for me.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On 2021-02-09, at 21:43, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > I=E2=80=99m getting IANA bibxml that looks like this: >=20 > target=3D'http://www.iana.org/assignments/cbor-simple-values'> > > Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Simple = Values > IANA > > > >=20 > from >=20 > = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml8/reference.IANA.cbor-simp= le-values.xml?anchor=3DIANA.cbor-simple-values >=20 > Note the missing closing quote for the anchor. >=20 > (Probably a result of the recent rebuild.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 From nobody Fri Feb 12 07:33:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BD93A172D for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 07:33:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.28 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.28 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vHF7F-yuHYIN for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 07:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA7733A1729 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 07:33:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 11CFX7uN084033 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:33:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1613143989; bh=AZinfvSlLsIcMMn1U1ElVt58xYdrIt0KV3Li6re3QQo=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=LfhTA76x3dT9D2kBU8SU3UR7zD377S9hOJhM7qFTLSl8/RXxrQWtQkuwM30gvWAsG BWmB5lpY43HDqlVRtJcAMmdeJOaak8DTOjnsTVU1TpZHdTOQfc81ttYKZaIa0H9Hkc BEyqfR+93tUb6YXfnt3Okz2wqTxJFNhMubFzSJxo= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain From: Robert Sparks To: Lars Eggert , Bob Hinden Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss References: <7da79bcd-2931-4a0e-8f7e-3ba528fea0cc@nostrum.com> <20268.1612372060@localhost> <284794F2-A748-49DE-97C2-EC5B5BEC05F2@eggert.org> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:33:02 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Followup: calendar events not showing (was Re: Important dates in upcoming.ics) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:33:26 -0000 As noted at https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/3161, the issue with events not appearing was an error in line folding in the ics generator. That's been fixed, and I just applied the fix to production as a patch. RjS On 2/3/21 11:58 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: > It has the same problem as discussed at > https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/3161#comment:3 > > I'm looking into it. > > What's currently there looks like this: > > BEGIN:VEVENT > UID:ietf-110-cutoffresched-2021-02-10 > SUMMARY:IETF 110: Cut-off Reschedule Requests > CLASS:PUBLIC > DTSTART;VALUE=DATE:20210210 > DTSTAMP:20210110T230331Z > DESCRIPTION:Cut-off date for requests to reschedule Working Group or > BOF meetings UTC 23:59 > END:VEVENT > > But that's clearly not making Calendar.app happy. > > If someone with good ical skills has time to look and suggest what the > form of the event _should_ be, please do so. > > RjS > > On 2/3/21 11:42 AM, Lars Eggert wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On 2021-2-3, at 19:37, Bob Hinden wrote: >>> I subscribed, but am not seeing anything on my calendar :-( >> same here. I wonder if the iCal file is corrupt? (It's not empty at >> least.) >> >> Thanks, >> Lars >> > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: > datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Fri Feb 12 08:49:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0BAC3A17AE; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 08:49:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6jCYK20qKSCI; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 08:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 512C73A17A7; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 08:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dcfc52wL6zyhc; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 17:49:41 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 17:49:40 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634841380.868253-fcdf41356b42baf7c61785694eded207 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: To: rfc-markdown@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] 1.3.29: Do not use server-side anchor setup for stand_alone: true X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:49:48 -0000 This is an emergency workaround for the tools server problem discussed = in = Please use `stand_alone: true` in the YAML header to benefit from this = (*). A few minor fixes (and a new feature) were also done recently that I = hadn=E2=80=99t announced: 1.3.28: SVG error handling fixes 1.3.27: Add -i option to kdrfc, run idnits 1.3.26: Avoid dependency for module that needs native build 1.3.25: Work around ERB api deprecation Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) actually, preferably always use stand_alone: true, unless you have a = broken proxy setup that makes it difficult for you to access the bibxml = servers. From nobody Fri Feb 12 11:42:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CDC73A0D29 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:42:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3wb7PZusEKeZ for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:42:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x633.google.com (mail-pl1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::633]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDE203A0D00 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:42:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x633.google.com with SMTP id s15so380866plr.9 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:42:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:to:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+Kch4P4qmOBfRuhHHpGGn5nOMQ3bBQ1egChliW/8I4k=; b=GZTYsvexM4UoGbNOBV4QZt80x+4v3+6OvXDZzrz7mS7+BkO/Sfhig7HGzrm/7z+ZLm pD6P3e4z5z8DOEXrB9Rx1v3sKDxJ9+uGnugYBpDShauHui2JWBuRICbEGK2quh27LLCn okbVz9cLUc9BGmyC1uEpGi0SHez0Z9O18MWRDWEzlg9m+HsjA419IL9RlVg+duNNA+Du yIWXpySOOgBYSM2Y87fk4mIirQxBXcWPwSoSFQdcxjRc2+9HLYsiQshm440kQiIDabSf RSQWcJZ78NCYM1dGbeb0otj4Bf2EXlte9Qi4RucyndAupZEjKduP5M+WAahCJTsLQJrS 4iig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+Kch4P4qmOBfRuhHHpGGn5nOMQ3bBQ1egChliW/8I4k=; b=Sde81sxGFG5xWNbn6KTykUjU4fhqUbtPSp9Ctc4agNbncWQ+1rZrPx2nKpHYesJxzi 70Udj2LXBs9m7vzclo/+1og7F7ZOI1IA+cfrKyC1AwP4YkCMs5ME3+W/fFnG2zW8pqRg 4fMes/ZgJsPSspZ7KUAjyTrAyHg+iS7Uz4sb3yxB8QPwoD0it1ptE+t1UZmgUxYtsDIN ZxVeXjaUpxiDTbZij02YNfxoQB9LuVfVPVU01B+3LMdOChqBJ5z3hIcVqEL6K8YgkEZi TnYnSx4wJAldm10X0JwF2K03corjjz8SYE0dHLRm2OFvCgTS7a9WDOjVbgG3bcAleG+o sLaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533VqMqdfHWcAHtOxQj5bGkAGaKgT6nxKhTNv8oFOoKHkJEjRO01 lXG0E8iLgrBx2QAPkin1bu6xG6b663N4Pw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwgF+F0kL0HQW+2Vz2+XHVq82vlm6ysdaQ8xYrvU/dWCR9Cw5LytLZMGZILeGke4Yov9YKWoA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1244:: with SMTP id gx4mr4016588pjb.187.1613158949413; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:42:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([151.210.131.28]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z12sm8538998pjz.16.2021.02.12.11.42.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:42:28 -0800 (PST) References: <161314501469.27869.17507298108361538056@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Tools Team Discussion From: Brian E Carpenter X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <161314501469.27869.17507298108361538056@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <8f56fc98-7984-f2c4-3b7c-4b11dc6337e1@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 08:42:24 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <161314501469.27869.17507298108361538056@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Glitch? [Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-v6-24.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 19:42:33 -0000 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsec-v6-24 Well, no, there isn't and I've seen this problem for several other recent drafts too. There seems to be an ongoing glitch. Brian -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-opsec-v6-24.txt Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 07:50:14 -0800 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org, opsec@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org CC: opsec@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Operational Security Capabilities for IP Network Infrastructure WG of the IETF. Title : Operational Security Considerations for IPv6 Networks Authors : Eric Vyncke Kiran Kumar Merike Kaeo Enno Rey Filename : draft-ietf-opsec-v6-24.txt Pages : 56 Date : 2021-02-12 Abstract: Knowledge and experience on how to operate IPv4 securely is available: whether it is the Internet or an enterprise internal network. However, IPv6 presents some new security challenges. RFC 4942 describes the security issues in the protocol, but network managers also need a more practical, operations-minded document to enumerate advantages and/or disadvantages of certain choices. This document analyzes the operational security issues associated with several types of network and proposes technical and procedural mitigation techniques. This document is only applicable to managed networks, such as enterprise building networks. The recommendations in this document are not applicable to residential user cases, even in cases where a Service Provider may be managing the home gateway. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsec-v6/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsec-v6-24 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsec-v6-24 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-opsec-v6-24 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Fri Feb 12 11:55:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE093A0D47; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:55:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2pResQXqsbdn; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B805F3A0D43; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.152] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dckkr6bpczyQt; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:55:48 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <9CCDF695-EE8F-4C21-A65C-DE29CA02861A@apple.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:55:48 +0100 Cc: xml2rfc Mailing List , tools-discuss Reply-To: tools-discuss Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9CCDF695-EE8F-4C21-A65C-DE29CA02861A@apple.com> To: Tommy Pauly X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [xml2rfc] Cron job for adding new RFC references? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 19:55:55 -0000 Wrong list, this would be tools-discuss. Over there we are discussing various current glitches with the tools = servers. >=20 > = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml/reference.RFC.8942.xml Unfortunately, the data tracker bibxml mechanism that gives us files = like... = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-wang-loops-srv6-binding/xml= =E2=80=A6does not seem to be available for RFCs yet. (Or is it?) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Feb 12 11:59:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2693A0D45; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:59:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s_VlJrnNo0uA; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:59:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFD143A0D4B; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:59:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.152] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DckqW3NLDzyVy; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:59:51 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:59:51 +0100 Cc: Tommy Pauly , xml2rfc Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7706A881-FB1E-41B5-9B90-3A38FAE417D1@tzi.org> References: <9CCDF695-EE8F-4C21-A65C-DE29CA02861A@apple.com> To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [xml2rfc] Cron job for adding new RFC references? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 19:59:56 -0000 Here we are: https://www.rfc-editor.org/refs/bibxml/reference.RFC.8942.xml Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On 12. Feb 2021, at 20:55, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Wrong list, this would be tools-discuss. >=20 > Over there we are discussing various current glitches with the tools = servers. >=20 >>=20 >> = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml/reference.RFC.8942.xml >=20 > Unfortunately, the data tracker bibxml mechanism that gives us files = like... >=20 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-wang-loops-srv6-binding/xml= >=20 > =E2=80=A6does not seem to be available for RFCs yet. >=20 > (Or is it?) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Fri Feb 12 12:01:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963C33A0D81 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:01:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gyZSCJ4-o6yx for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A9853A111A for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 11CK1MKi078815 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:01:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1613160082; bh=okGSIqkqtU160czG4+L3ZRBOkFXFkR53y7EBDIPOizs=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=h9WV8V0biYr6ouf2dKaUkXJAsLJIhLDDAlLxwgl2OE9DTNhSBiUFPaUzJLn79K9Ue ft433BTeCrydrzdy3VjZcUupdeUtIlhaZ31wiwr1x2nkEqSnThdNxL0MIdJgi4F6q6 ZQYelTj90Yv5EFt6LFphtTNCtIfz5H8Y6O97vpVs= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <9CCDF695-EE8F-4C21-A65C-DE29CA02861A@apple.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <01f9dab6-e0e3-dea3-efe9-61fe91b6d6e2@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:01:17 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [xml2rfc] Cron job for adding new RFC references? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:01:57 -0000 On 2/12/21 1:55 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Wrong list, this would be tools-discuss. > > Over there we are discussing various current glitches with the tools servers. > >> https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml/reference.RFC.8942.xml > Unfortunately, the data tracker bibxml mechanism that gives us files like... > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-wang-loops-srv6-binding/xml no, the datatracker doesn't build bibxml-rfc files yet, but bibxml-rfc at xml2rfc.ietf.org is built from the references the rfc editor exposes at rfc-editor.org::refs > > …does not seem to be available for RFCs yet. > > (Or is it?) > > Grüße, Carsten > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Fri Feb 12 12:02:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984143A0D74; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:02:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QzFjAo3taRpO; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:02:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40B5D3A0E72; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB2F38AE98; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:01:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mbYWe9PApY1H; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from 2603-8000-9603-b513-0dd5-ea1a-27b3-df31.res6.spectrum.com (2603-8000-9603-b513-0dd5-ea1a-27b3-df31.res6.spectrum.com [IPv6:2603:8000:9603:b513:dd5:ea1a:27b3:df31]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 305F138AD75; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:01:54 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Sandy Ginoza In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 12:00:47 -0800 Cc: Tommy Pauly , xml2rfc Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <84FC1788-9EDB-42AE-8C99-09DF70E32FBA@amsl.com> References: <9CCDF695-EE8F-4C21-A65C-DE29CA02861A@apple.com> To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [xml2rfc] Cron job for adding new RFC references? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:02:33 -0000 Hi, For RFCs, you can use these URLs: https://www.rfc-editor.org/refs/bibxml/reference.RFC.8942.xml Thanks, Sandy=20 > On Feb 12, 2021, at 11:55 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Wrong list, this would be tools-discuss. >=20 > Over there we are discussing various current glitches with the tools = servers. >=20 >>=20 >> = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml/reference.RFC.8942.xml >=20 > Unfortunately, the data tracker bibxml mechanism that gives us files = like... >=20 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-wang-loops-srv6-binding/xml= >=20 > =E2=80=A6does not seem to be available for RFCs yet. >=20 > (Or is it?) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > xml2rfc mailing list > xml2rfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc From nobody Fri Feb 12 14:00:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9680B3A0FF4 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:00:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JUL7scwsPSTy for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF5C43A0FFB for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 11CM0RdL024922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 17:00:32 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:00:27 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210212220027.GP21@kduck.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Glitch? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 22:00:42 -0000 Conceptually responding to Brian's https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/ZID1X53FJCLTAz3V8SYx79reAVo/ (but I'm not actually subscribed here): I had some similar experiences with https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2, with some accesses telling me that the -28 doesn't exist on the server and others producing the expected content. Which leads me to suspect that there's a server in a bad state in the pool again. But, I am not sure how much time I can afford to spend tracking it down today... -Ben From nobody Fri Feb 12 15:28:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16223A0D87 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:28:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SoJ5JUqN5Rx4 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A6623A0D7B for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DcqSS0WfmzyWg; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:28:40 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634865319.509119-233c2f46b571f07c4bea7148a001336e Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:28:39 +0100 Message-Id: To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Alternate bibxml servers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 23:28:48 -0000 I just patched kramdown-rfc to use rfc-editor/datatracker for RFC/I-D = bibxml; this emergency patch will be in 1.3.30. Comparing the output (- is tools, + is rfc-editor/datatracker): @@ -88,11 +88,11 @@ 3.1. Normative References =20 [I-D.ietf-core-coap] - Shelby, Z., Hartke, K., and C. Bormann, "Constrained + Shelby, Z., Hartke, K., and C. Bormann, "The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP)", Work in Progress, Internet- Draft, draft-ietf-core-coap-18, 28 June 2013, - = . + . =20 [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, @@ -127,12 +127,12 @@ [I-D.ietf-ace-aif] Bormann, C., "An Authorization Information Format (AIF) for ACE", Work in Progress, Internet-Draft, draft-ietf- - ace-aif-00, 29 July 2020, . + ace-aif-01, 11 February 2021, . =20 [old] Bormann, C., "An Authorization Information Format (AIF) for ACE", Work in Progress, Internet-Draft, draft-ietf- - ace-aif-00, 29 July 2020, . =20 Acknowledgements Diff finished. Sat Feb 13 00:13:46 2021 Wow. =20 (1) The title of draft-ietf-core-coap-18.txt is =E2=80=9CConstrained=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=9D, not =E2=80=9CThe Constrained=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D (the RFC = editor made this change later on the way to RFC 7252). Could = datatracker be replacing the RFC title for the title of the final draft? = The date is right. (2) xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org is serving up URLs with =E2=80=9Chttp://=E2=80=9D= . That was changed a while ago; this seems to be a regression. (I = *think* I got dechaunac, 4.31.198.62.) =20 (3) It also thinks draft-ietf-ace-aif-00 is the current = draft-ietf-ace-aif, while it has been draft-ietf-ace-aif-01 for a couple = days. I=E2=80=99ll take slightly revisionist over outdated data, so in goes = 1.3.30. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Feb 12 15:39:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 197253A0DC4 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:39:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.078 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_SHORT=1.997, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iOloa4Uvbqzl for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C24A3A10FF for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DcqhW5ZrlzyX7; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:39:07 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:39:07 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634865947.286188-524d6ebc09cb46f9d689df7f7f36c21d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4E14925B-EFF3-4459-AB0E-4ED278F75A5C@tzi.org> References: To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Alternate bibxml servers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 23:39:15 -0000 On 2021-02-13, at 00:28, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > (3) It also thinks draft-ietf-ace-aif-00 is the current = draft-ietf-ace-aif, while it has been draft-ietf-ace-aif-01 for a couple = days. (4) =E2=80=A6 and the link given there, = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ace-aif-00.txt, is 404 = (that would need to be the archive/id link now). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Feb 13 10:17:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBF43A0936 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 10:17:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HMX5mwo4Li3W for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 10:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE2B83A083E for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 10:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F9F38A6B; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:21:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id h3KZ1DszyuBV; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:21:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A623638A6A; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:21:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ECD55B2; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:17:30 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann cc: tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <4E14925B-EFF3-4459-AB0E-4ED278F75A5C@tzi.org> References: <4E14925B-EFF3-4459-AB0E-4ED278F75A5C@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Alternate bibxml servers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:17:37 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: > (4) =E2=80=A6 and the link given there, > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ace-aif-00.txt, is 404 > (that would need to be the archive/id link now). Based upon the policy for IDs, and the lack of a redirect, and that, in my draft, I can't predict when you'll update your draft, I think that all such links in IDs need to point to archive/id by default. {That's too bad from a SEO point of view, but effectively the result is that google is never gonna pick www.ietf.org/internet-draft/foo.} I recognize that you are just rendering what's in the reference.I-D.foo.xml= file. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAoF7kACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW9oAf9HRDMdqqppE7BwmaVaJrz/dM8GrzxqUWFgp7K5Z/myguBLMF2VyQsSKy6 ttyjQl4UxLG8/CTsj3X8tUTso0vsJBgCWygqKZeeM/YxELsqNNBQyfyEyvvZfJuI PXdeybBPxUfkVQ+F7vUp9ewtmI4KarO+uNog9RIM0bUvXcecCZ11mIcU9LnmLNwK /ooX7TGh1i/gGUI3/HjvlEiSI/kbblMqy4/ElNQoYj9JmTkueAeB27FeW1ujQyox xNz/k79arnTMljNve6L3YpuiBVskHxNY9jL7MhQnn7cqZlhnyQIJ0oO949fPH1YQ 5r8mpl6r7xtwj3J71Gj9cGA8ppVXfQ== =Pgbu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Feb 13 11:18:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96CA13A0B54 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:18:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dhBKHDldj7Or for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 861093A0AF8 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DdKrs43XjzyQp; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 20:18:05 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <5539.1613240250@localhost> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 20:18:05 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634936684.994048-f9ee1ac41fbfd8527a436342a90656a5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4628E2FC-F656-4C3E-978A-0623CE813567@tzi.org> References: <4E14925B-EFF3-4459-AB0E-4ED278F75A5C@tzi.org> <5539.1613240250@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Alternate bibxml servers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 19:18:13 -0000 On 2021-02-13, at 19:17, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > Carsten Bormann wrote: >> (4) =E2=80=A6 and the link given there, >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ace-aif-00.txt, is 404 >> (that would need to be the archive/id link now). >=20 > Based upon the policy for IDs, and the lack of a redirect, and that, = in my > draft, I can't predict when you'll update your draft, I think that all = such > links in IDs need to point to archive/id by default. =E2=80=A6 which I thought already was the case (with an https URL). Apparently it is not with the datatracker-generated links. Let=E2=80=99s try that with a superseded draft: $ curl -s = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-ietf-ace-aif-00/xml | = tail -2 Fine reference bibxml. Let=E2=80=99s dereference the target in that: $ curl -s https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ace-aif-00.txt = | tail -2

The document has moved here.

OK, thank you for the hint, let=E2=80=99s get *that*: $ curl -I https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-ace-aif-00.txt HTTP/2 404 [=E2=80=A6] Do I now have to pile on another emergency patch to fix the datatracker = links? =F0=9F=A4=A6=E2=80=8D=E2=99=82=EF=B8=8F. > {That's too bad from a SEO point of view, but effectively the result > is that google is never gonna pick www.ietf.org/internet-draft/foo.} archive/id is the stable URL [1]. The temporary ones should never be = used. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html "Cool URIs don't change" From nobody Sat Feb 13 11:28:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB76D3A0B8C for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:28:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9VkxTvMB7tj6 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 348CD3A0B9E for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 11DJRZZZ066377 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:27:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1613244456; bh=JGOtoTz3wVLq1JbDCTcHBtzlJrYZ4l5c6ysGs+wKX2o=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=CJ00uYtGr/Wtdp+JJw5mdl4ydeC+RsB/tY+YrjGNEKSvX3QDuip5r+ty1eYQ83miA 1kR1X91c9mb1EgtPerHH5G0ER52mx6KqmAjyffvAFmuIxwI52SCo2f+rJQAjxE+eXt srIG6NT8HbseyASiOycZFwJV6aOfoxO1h2+2nRbA= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <4E14925B-EFF3-4459-AB0E-4ED278F75A5C@tzi.org> <5539.1613240250@localhost> <4628E2FC-F656-4C3E-978A-0623CE813567@tzi.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <25aa62f9-ef4b-612f-f3fb-59150afd2d64@nostrum.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 13:27:30 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4628E2FC-F656-4C3E-978A-0623CE813567@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Alternate bibxml servers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 19:28:24 -0000 On 2/13/21 1:18 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > $ curl -s https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ace-aif-00.txt | tail -2 >

The document has moved here.

> > > OK, thank you for the hint, let’s get *that*: > > $ curl -I https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-ace-aif-00.txt > HTTP/2 404 > […] > > Do I now have to pile on another emergency patch to fix the datatracker links? > 🤦‍♂️. I'll add a ticket to make sure this points to the archive. > >> {That's too bad from a SEO point of view, but effectively the result >> is that google is never gonna pick www.ietf.org/internet-draft/foo.} > archive/id is the stable URL [1]. The temporary ones should never be used. I mostly agree. But there are still people who want the set of active drafts distinguished from the set of all drafts, and things do disappear from the set of active drafts. > > Grüße, Carsten > > [1]: https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html > "Cool URIs don't change" > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Sat Feb 13 12:39:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C917C3A0CBA for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 12:39:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ARmzeo1NCijY for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 12:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F9BB3A0CB9 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 12:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DdMfP4PqHzyYX; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 21:39:09 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <25aa62f9-ef4b-612f-f3fb-59150afd2d64@nostrum.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 21:39:09 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 634941549.063594-ca2f11262b111d54a90b2d526c7840cc Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4E14925B-EFF3-4459-AB0E-4ED278F75A5C@tzi.org> <5539.1613240250@localhost> <4628E2FC-F656-4C3E-978A-0623CE813567@tzi.org> <25aa62f9-ef4b-612f-f3fb-59150afd2d64@nostrum.com> To: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Alternate bibxml servers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 20:39:15 -0000 On 2021-02-13, at 20:27, Robert Sparks wrote: >=20 > I mostly agree. But there are still people who want the set of active = drafts distinguished from the set of all drafts, and things do disappear = from the set of active drafts. /internet-drafts/ or /id/ =E2=80=A6could point to a tombstone page that points to (or = transcludes!) /archive/id/ =E2=80=A6if you want to keep up this distinction. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sun Feb 14 23:43:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A123A0D5D for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:43:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tVmZY3xN3IC0 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B381F3A0D5C for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:fc64:e8ec:3042:39dc] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:fc64:e8ec:3042:39dc]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D7D126002F7 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 09:43:19 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1613374999; bh=1631enHq2ltdpJKB1gFHAMbPFJe9Y+bD67sZHfRGNdc=; h=From:Subject:Date:To; b=oB6alvNCKziYsw8Gi2D7thUsX/2Yb2dxGPScDlXfYaQTV+BAMPj44LM+TuGvTrzAb j7jBb6drblqg8tZZW1G86BgtaSXO6lPLSteIPyzuRinKBkn0TVC1DWC2RJlZUns4mq z0PSLvWpcn5ONMU2wN6hXSFd3ONqaZTMOo/TpggY= From: Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2E8CA856-E610-4BDD-9BAF-467DA73AB812"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Message-Id: <521087A9-1210-449D-B5B4-90D8F960B469@eggert.org> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 09:43:19 +0200 To: tools-discuss X-MailScanner-ID: D7D126002F7.A32E1 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Could not resolve host: tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 07:43:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2E8CA856-E610-4BDD-9BAF-467DA73AB812 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I'm downloading idnits from = https://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/idnits-2.16.05.tgz as part of a CI = run. Every so often, that download fails, because: > curl: (6) Could not resolve host: tools.ietf.org >=20 > The command '/bin/sh -c curl -L -o idnits.tgz = https://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/idnits-2.16.05.tgz' returned a = non-zero code: 6 For example, = https://github.com/larseggert/i-d-toolchain/runs/1893387974?check_suite_fo= cus=3Dtrue#step:3:2165 or = https://github.com/larseggert/i-d-toolchain/runs/1894464855?check_suite_fo= cus=3Dtrue#step:3:2303 Is one of the tools servers out of sync? Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_2E8CA856-E610-4BDD-9BAF-467DA73AB812 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAqJhcACgkQVLXDCb9w wVcxPQ//ThIuLbBdaieAOEOriLGpveikAnE8XRm7R9ZWFuPDrcnaOveHu5svy2cQ x6srGG5o7EIOEgNgGHJvgHNHxf/7ZVeGzF4IruIapriOzl0y3Z3nCofi1U6zlJ9Z WhzJrBeHEa8s3A8I3PSV4U08NG3aPiOMiX9YMcgudzjKWBSr1yBctaix5yvwBHEQ 6v6h8yqPCD/kXZ7Ztw510JyzH3rU9xmGtnSAgdc0uZK6ADpj4B/mHEvbzQvHfrIK f6EvjU64sRE1+NEg+znkAoQnTC132nhTsPJRrYx0jKhMwODS74TszL/uPy/dFwOg xJ+i0wDY4i8UhoE6fEtS6P/Vh+uAhLE9E3PXyLldeahERw0A/BjS1bnWgQPL60+a cCKrIHL1KIHUwKYmpSS9OK4htwWJ98HmxrsPbzUs8TYG5fwqMNV297zC86109dSO GYh/4+KXHhb/WaaYjSGMMafny83nNm+KCnSTP+XgZyYe4edkUJlHhDYa8nwF8Sb1 V+86tQZhs7Eg9XLQa5s9I4Wu9jAYsIlkQRzWXsjrAc4uSD9MnMHS/qyjvtYsQDgK QVl64VgQJKTf4jexB1Bc34ZqY04O19cax4NPKbdMY74umnqgEKq4KCIH5Lx3AKqR huRK4ho66y3S5R/hVcAhdQpGHstQwiCwpn3mKxKpT3y3N0nkE0M= =0LHy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2E8CA856-E610-4BDD-9BAF-467DA73AB812-- From nobody Sun Feb 14 23:45:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7382F3A0D66 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:45:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id io9-wSqIbNZI for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C4883A0D5D for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:fc64:e8ec:3042:39dc] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:fc64:e8ec:3042:39dc]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 09AB56002F7 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 09:45:20 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1613375121; bh=V6lySVQNQGjfHsAhRJB8ryUxvHU35Q5lorWJSgLQuzs=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To; b=Q6nq0RM3zeYR6seo9MgfXnseeBpySDqRYGHAETu3g1n9SxEdWCEgv7SzHncmVOZ9q 1xOsbEXhxWwspE92x2KMQn4wkowR6VnSrJJHz9PjMJ7C6BE/2DUCQM2HKod3hQA91z xrKZTeZmWKrVkTy5l8AkiRsWdUwneXrpO1xj16ug= From: Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AFCFC571-03D3-43AF-954D-3E37F20604AC"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 09:45:20 +0200 References: <521087A9-1210-449D-B5B4-90D8F960B469@eggert.org> To: tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <521087A9-1210-449D-B5B4-90D8F960B469@eggert.org> Message-Id: X-MailScanner-ID: 09AB56002F7.A0A3B X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Could not resolve host: tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 07:45:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AFCFC571-03D3-43AF-954D-3E37F20604AC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2021-2-15, at 9:43, Lars Eggert wrote: >> curl: (6) Could not resolve host: tools.ietf.org >>=20 >> The command '/bin/sh -c curl -L -o idnits.tgz = https://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/idnits-2.16.05.tgz' returned a = non-zero code: 6 Sorry, need more coffee. Of course this a DNS resolution issue, not a = content retrieval issue. Which means I have no theory for what is wrong. Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_AFCFC571-03D3-43AF-954D-3E37F20604AC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmAqJpAACgkQVLXDCb9w wVfWng/+LBs3v4T5kNUb6dZGY2OVbaE7FtjGIP1Mt7HRlC4wa7AqmL94X4L7ncbI +o2ZXTUNptUCzOa7UM9/nwnrX6zijfXtlOhuyemULuTH2rhh4Hsaw7Dye4FIi3gP N68JqiOrKmUUDqA6MO9EPfatwoLWZYZ0Rx4caF0mWfXwSzVbdT7ZraKn0/CjvyGn evOygt/o7kXA5cAcbCdYlcyP+NfMDqed7BbvJFKrPocj4PTNIOUzN+lscYikDNyD ChckR0XYV+qHCjLaDoHSXRwrbEk/RNNos8u+aX9eAqsRpXdskGTI9XxvCcvTt+LP UKuxzoySCwLlW0j39da6BsCztWULEvLhdcXfilBxGpDYiNcfIRXSy34lODvussGK jRMoZIGeCCvui1NDSCAjC8cZ9H5YnQ11iMO23gOhxNV+TiiPQdEht66Ck6uLavre NL+jEYcyQoTfQRzVW8igpPBNVXH7dy5YfNv22nZ26Fn4Um2W7Rrs4KxpAsGjovi6 tFGB/aAQayXJjbdcuubrQ8Zw6QKw4o2jG3JicpjKBrA12MyePn6Cn2+bLLKEUGXO u86jnjMC8RoQGfSwb4V0liLNIBMNe7Tv/lAZ9k7ynzQi9r+fE/Idcpb7dS9yZzFA QpwvTEEtx/sxH3yWvSuhtXZ1iIOVm+CJsLf+ps/4RhzKwRpbiLI= =IQP6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_AFCFC571-03D3-43AF-954D-3E37F20604AC-- From nobody Sat Feb 20 08:30:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172C63A153F for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 08:30:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R6aZY_xxqmF6 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 08:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C44A3A153E for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 08:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DjYp76MxFzyYv; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 17:30:23 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635531423.120736-ec7b24735d0990cdd83eb7a9dd2b7067 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 17:30:23 +0100 Message-Id: <916F2622-1AD1-4005-93E0-845A0C5F63DD@tzi.org> To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Inexplicable differences in datatracker bibxml files X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 16:30:30 -0000 The files coming from "https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-#{namepart}/xml=E2=80=9D (newest version) and = "https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-#{namepart}-#{version}/xml= " (specific version), when #{version} is the most recent one, are almost = the same, except: --- reference.I-D.arkko-farrell-arch-model-t-7258-additions.xml = 2021-02-20 17:10:23.000000000 +0100 +++ reference.I-D.draft-arkko-farrell-arch-model-t-7258-additions-01.xml = 2021-02-20 17:10:23.000000000 +0100 @@ -2,10 +2,10 @@ RFC 7258 additions due to evolving Internet thread = model - + Ericsson - + Trinity College Dublin This is a `diff -ub`, because the other inexplicable difference is that = draft-=E2=80=A6-nn has more of its pretty-XML indentation replaced by = HTAB characters, while draft-=E2=80=A6 (without version number) is = somewhat cleaner, but not entirely clean. (If the files were the same, I could use hardlinks and would need half = as many fetches.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Feb 20 10:14:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AEA23A1081 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:14:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F8fdjW-53GeS for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D519B3A1599 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:13:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 11KIDugW037370 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 20 Feb 2021 12:13:57 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1613844839; bh=drzEzLSiIMKRtaz//qSMbBO6t+Ji/OBaJrv0dvgLzCo=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=YAt6YYCB00+ERhty9VxwMD8UffFwEuLcpSbJVlUJXgrWlSsND41GLirA/1yaklN9h 07boDj31sgPKbhNlcB/5BEUW/4pmv8+s5Oxr5fZC7qxeGTH04C0s254ln3+yIsaErj P3GJxeSfLw+3DkregokIx2kX1Fso+uRyGjm+EigA= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss References: <916F2622-1AD1-4005-93E0-845A0C5F63DD@tzi.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <3b50aba7-7ad4-d5d9-62f3-fd3a5f93c9f3@nostrum.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 12:13:51 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <916F2622-1AD1-4005-93E0-845A0C5F63DD@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Inexplicable differences in datatracker bibxml files X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 18:14:04 -0000 Might be a good sprint project. What's happening can be seen from line 77 here: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/browser/trunk/ietf/doc/urls.py#L= 77 (though you might also look through what happens with line 76) lines 875-907 here: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/browser/trunk/ietf/doc/views_doc= =2Epy#L875 and this template: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/browser/trunk/ietf/templates/doc= /bibxml.xml The crux is that the view using the DocHistory record if a rev is=20 present rather than the Document object. It should either look at the most recent DocHistory (matching current=20 rev) if a rev is not present, or stick with the Document object if rev=20 is present. (I lean towards the latter). The difference in rendering is a consequence of there being a link from=20 the Document object to its Submission object, but not from the=20 DocumentHistory object. If the template can get to a submission object,=20 it renders the author records from that. It would probably be worth it=20 to go try to find the Submission object matching the DocumentHistory=20 object if it exists and make that available to the template. This is related to the long-standing tension we have with older=20 documents DocumentAuthor set being extracted from .txt by heuristics.=20 The Submission objects have a bit of (or at least the potential for a=20 bit of) manual grooming at submission time, and keeps some details like=20 affiliation at time of submission that is not as easy to calculate from=20 the DocumentAuthor set. When we have the Submission objects, we should=20 use that data. Only when we don't should we fall back to the=20 DocumentAuthor set. Also - it would be worth the template to avoid the whitespace=20 differences on the different branches that you noted when possible RjS On 2/20/21 10:30 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > The files coming from > "https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-#{namepart}/xml=E2=80=9D= > (newest version) and > "https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-#{namepart}-#{version}/= xml" > (specific version), when #{version} is the most recent one, are almost = the same, except: > > --- reference.I-D.arkko-farrell-arch-model-t-7258-additions.xml 2021-02= -20 17:10:23.000000000 +0100 > +++ reference.I-D.draft-arkko-farrell-arch-model-t-7258-additions-01.xm= l 2021-02-20 17:10:23.000000000 +0100 > @@ -2,10 +2,10 @@ > > > RFC 7258 additions due to evolving Internet thread model= > - > + > + > Trinity College Dublin > > > > This is a `diff -ub`, because the other inexplicable difference is that= draft-=E2=80=A6-nn has more of its pretty-XML indentation replaced by HT= AB characters, while draft-=E2=80=A6 (without version number) is somewhat= cleaner, but not entirely clean. > > (If the files were the same, I could use hardlinks and would need half = as many fetches.) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.= org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Sat Feb 20 11:08:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A4A3A07F7 for ; 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Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:08:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:08:01 -0800 Message-ID: To: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000058768e05bbc94a63" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Submitted draft is missing from tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 19:08:18 -0000 --00000000000058768e05bbc94a63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, a new draft submitted two days ago is in the datatracker but is not showing in the tools. As a result, cannot reference it from another document. Much appreciate your help, suggestions. Regards, Greg --00000000000058768e05bbc94a63 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
a new draft submitted two days ago is in the dat= atracker=C2=A0but is not showing in the tools. As a result, cannot refe= rence it from another document. Much appreciate your help, suggestions.

Regards,
Greg
--00000000000058768e05bbc94a63-- From nobody Sat Feb 20 11:11:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0133E3A0B72 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:11:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDg6v60AnvmF for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:11:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFDF43A0B70 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:11:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DjdMl0T6nzyYc; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 20:11:15 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 20:11:14 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635541074.3104759-d4da68f4e45f74684c13b93f4e890ec8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0DCC99DB-6366-49A5-9FB7-51A19FC1233D@tzi.org> References: To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] whose on first X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 19:11:33 -0000 On 2021-02-19, at 23:29, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t understand the current situation any more than you, = but Henrik did leave us this gem: >=20 > $ curl = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-spaghetti-sidrops-rpki-rsc/= xml Hmm. *** reference.I-D.brown-ec-2y2-x3-x-mod-8-to-91-plus-5.xml: *** Status = code 404 while fetching = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-brown-ec-2y2-x3-x-mod-8-to-= 91-plus-5/xml *** reference.I-D.ietf-oauth-v2-1.xml: *** Status code 404 while = fetching = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-ietf-oauth-v2-1/xml *** reference.I-D.olteanu-intarea-socks-6.xml: *** Status code 404 while = fetching = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6/xml= So we can=E2=80=99t get bibxml when the draft name ends in a number = before the version. *** reference.I-D.ietf-avtcore-rfc7983bis.xml: *** Status code 500 while = fetching = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc7983bis/xml= *** reference.I-D.mclaggan-wccp-v2rev1.xml: *** Status code 500 while = fetching = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-mclaggan-wccp-v2rev1/xml *** reference.I-D.wang-idr-sr-policy-pce-delegation.xml: *** Status code = 500 while fetching = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-wang-idr-sr-policy-pce-dele= gation/xml We also have some nice, repeatable 500s. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Feb 20 11:22:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EDAF3A0912 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:22:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FYsRyMskduVa for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 745F33A0906 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Djdc41CZGzyZc; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 20:21:56 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CA32BA71-3061-4784-BB6E-C92281BCB60D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 20:21:55 +0100 Cc: Tools Team Discussion X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635541715.287547-632b8e62760ced1ac247c0cfd05572d9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Greg Mirsky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Submitted draft is missing from tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 19:22:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CA32BA71-3061-4784-BB6E-C92281BCB60D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-mmm-rtgwg-integrated-oam/xml= A copy is below. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten --Apple-Mail=_CA32BA71-3061-4784-BB6E-C92281BCB60D Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=reference.I-D.mmm-rtgwg-integrated-oam.xml Content-Type: application/xml; x-unix-mode=0644; name="reference.I-D.mmm-rtgwg-integrated-oam.xml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Integrated Operation, Administration, and Maintenance ZTE Corp. ZTE Corp. Verizon Inc. This document describes the Integrated Operation, Administration, and Maintenance (IntOAM) protocol. IntOAM is based on the lightweight capabilities of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection defined in RFC 5880 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection, and the RFC 6374 Packet Loss and Delay Measurement for MPLS Networks to measure performance metrics like packet loss and packet delay. Also, a method to perform lightweight on-demand authentication is defined in this specification. --Apple-Mail=_CA32BA71-3061-4784-BB6E-C92281BCB60D-- From nobody Sat Feb 20 11:59:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2EB3A0ABE for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:59:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tGj5bPErGPyS for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x530.google.com (mail-pg1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCC443A0ABD for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x530.google.com with SMTP id t11so7569702pgu.8 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:59:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EFBxJ/THe62hyido2knK1tAU4y+5sqmHJrvMcnNawHw=; b=en8XEq7hpn8hslhYS/8Xy1LdpUYZuZJeje8YD/no8T67j6qfNTZbm0g4Uzrj2U7hk9 xgOG6M81LOaO59fzRjn5n+m7lyK6XiAWK0EDen9K8kGUGR2Ak9gaPpgSy3IShKDUQBiK gyWWG76BH3lYj072oplpeZfBvxrP93doA4v22stLZDMz9Ojvj8Hy30f3NSMyjngTvuXJ o/A+9+ZJY5JEUASqgaC32H5/v8P7N3b7SRU//1ifVKqVdCVnX+jImx4/YptiZQIxcyFo mcrMvh2pMdym4zxu/ZHDmZMnJ7aqiJbxDHOD8jMoU2JcBWIhv9Rhnya+iBvGNYV9eo4e UKsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EFBxJ/THe62hyido2knK1tAU4y+5sqmHJrvMcnNawHw=; b=bK370d8Yxwxn9ZWsC3y6PZfRxtIWQj6Y39PmNA0BVJCDZb1tuEPiX4kVkuSEXFvjCA R4kaxwJjMKpMGhd1KtSSSpc7Wy2IxUkQ5dtxo6vam68XCdx2+5nRtt7uoVUJ95pDNsa/ aIDclQxnQcbDVg/E88KsW3c+Vk58x5tWSu0e/7zQhuN+PAe/jvC+YTtDGg2hppaiDufv IVjpzJVrJEWYuZGQm2cpXmWC/Zg8RB20F5I0y08D4NHN6JwUxwavmQJhE85R3VI31HFy aWtDTSBwQtXs59cgZmKS/t3nGEbBtmWfniu5JdPRCCMXazS2VOWVs/osqSR5W6xgMtp6 PyjQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530msiIbIS3mzBsIYEgiB86k0QrJG6ZPnr2GZ8UWwX3WW/2qtXtT XdI9tRRGm8hvpQfYrarK0qtgaB/36WtF7A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzylKIEu4/NkeXzR3yButt3H8wf5rf1fEENmuIg+ffCF7r9l1hyKlm++IokbLC6f0Apd9F3ZA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:c10:: with SMTP id b16mr14087736pgl.326.1613851169814; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([151.210.131.28]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v3sm13345322pff.217.2021.02.20.11.59.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:59:29 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Mirsky , Tools Team Discussion References: From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 08:59:26 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Submitted draft is missing from tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 19:59:32 -0000 Greg, On 21-Feb-21 08:08, Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi, > a new draft submitted two days ago is in the datatracker =C2=A0but is not show= ing in the tools. As a result, cannot reference it from another document.= Much appreciate your help, suggestions. Every updated draft I've looked for recently after an I-D announcement wa= s missing from the tools site. You just have to use the version in the da= tatracker until the tools site catches up, which seems to take a while th= ese days. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mmm-rtgwg-integrated-oam-00 is there no= w. Brian From nobody Sat Feb 20 12:37:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D5E3A0C6D for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 12:37:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EJ0uxVCnNEIk for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 12:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 986473A0C6C for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 12:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 11KKbNl0019927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 15:37:27 -0500 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 12:37:22 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210220203722.GM21@kduck.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Submitted draft is missing from tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 20:37:31 -0000 Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Every updated draft I've looked for recently after an I-D announcement > was missing from the tools site. You just have to use the version in the > datatracker until the tools site catches up, which seems to take a while > these days. To add another data point for how long it takes tools to catch up, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-06 is currently unavailable (404) but the -06 was posted just shy of 4 days ago. -Ben From nobody Sat Feb 20 13:37:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB4053A0DBA for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:37:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rlka_Pai6ixU for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:37:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22e.google.com (mail-lj1-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4E303A0DB8 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:37:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id u4so43576578ljh.6 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:37:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZvKK6lgIZDWjO6BeiPnANrWBH1gZ/+yYFWyNGIClq0A=; b=Wy16jT/TPGn/fVMFWFgbEgGTfXaSilN8AhZ5GL9hCTXtPsPMDGICQQlKh2sSW7EU6D tkkdr/0VcUd/1BiK9wjvkj6fUyD0C4/fon/uLAvBhrcDcoG7b//8Cht5G+pa3HJGTQ9G wraqwbW5Gh1j4wOAjM4GTptFSt3Dmt7D59uyea90tY7HlC4CcFuJijUGDHNxxvl3fzWJ JSG9NvcPt45DtE7MKVnoDzwUV+bJx3IUeYW3xiaU03magNWdyVolMeiVhuD7aeAicaN4 +s6mmT3cVMco1nsyyIBDPxCyj+aFGB9Ub3KRThEWu5wyo+7jTp6WT77PWQbowl1rVbEJ mi5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZvKK6lgIZDWjO6BeiPnANrWBH1gZ/+yYFWyNGIClq0A=; b=g6RH+7EjzCfOzvxTVVK8cDgPpBRpTKecSLNAPBBETjtFfEzNK825zojim7ahC3X0CY Vp6ivJp6hJzIDXdUznwjWfRemc9MZ2XwiWLfzxJQRdPrqvKdgu/jP4nY61pDuEWIru7L 1CCKwYrXXZKcw7l3QJOoyVlFVE4fuZI0ncR+KJPZxVpRJEWJJMCpAkSbIxykLTJWnNJv Mzev7fXIUrKdbyctyT3PzgQQELGPCqwTwz5UALz2hTXdp+eakr+vwxZ1wGyosTi2Xr82 SigSqftTPcxTIPNBpUZ7P3wpd0UuVHHHgkZeVmwVhvYHySQ3CcdKOrwj4/C07zvX2qtX 8GKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531QsmIFwJUEZT714Yuy09Y/2q/dm5zKvaRmRp7F4Wr7bHybc3qU zIGGGtveV2XXkAzFlLVXLIVluINAUQICdEU3Csx7L4AWoEo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJypAAsYvGZrTsURDhl6buFCUNZlFarllMCAH5C6nPNSR4n6fdJHPX5OQnOjXjKB0c1p7i5fCpSidYzT40cUvIw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2341:: with SMTP id p1mr9659196lfu.192.1613857040124; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:37:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:37:08 -0800 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000984ecc05bbcb5f1d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Submitted draft is missing from tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 21:37:24 -0000 --000000000000984ecc05bbcb5f1d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Brian, thank you for your quick response. Looking and your and Benjamin's observations don't make me feel better that this problem affects many other contributors at IETF. Thanks to Carsten, I can work and use the reference he kindly provided. Regards, Greg PS. Tools still don't show my draft. ;( On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 11:59 AM Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > Greg, > > On 21-Feb-21 08:08, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Hi, > > a new draft submitted two days ago is in the datatracker < > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mmm-rtgwg-integrated-oam/> but is > not showing in the tools. As a result, cannot reference it from another > document. Much appreciate your help, suggestions. > > Every updated draft I've looked for recently after an I-D announcement was > missing from the tools site. You just have to use the version in the > datatracker until the tools site catches up, which seems to take a while > these days. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mmm-rtgwg-integrated-oam-00 is there > now. > > Brian > > --000000000000984ecc05bbcb5f1d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Brian,
thank you for your quick response. Looking a= nd your and Benjamin's observations don't make me feel better that = this problem affects many other contributors at IETF. Thanks to Carsten, I = can work and use the reference he kindly provided.

Regards,
Greg

PS. Tools still don't= show my draft. ;(

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 11:59 AM Brian E Carpenter = <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.= com> wrote:
Greg,

On 21-Feb-21 08:08, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi,
> a new draft submitted two days ago is in the datatracker <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mm= m-rtgwg-integrated-oam/>=C2=A0but is not showing in the tools. As a = result, cannot reference it from another document. Much appreciate your hel= p, suggestions.

Every updated draft I've looked for recently after an I-D announcement = was missing from the tools site. You just have to use the version in the da= tatracker until the tools site catches up, which seems to take a while thes= e days.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mmm-r= tgwg-integrated-oam-00 is there now.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian

--000000000000984ecc05bbcb5f1d-- From nobody Sat Feb 20 13:38:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B704C3A0E19 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:38:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MrJyqHGTjkq1 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D14253A0E2A for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id q14so43572589ljp.4 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:38:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kWyGjggVhgHJ51DPlHlRk0TdaXYM3kjdr+TX4gQ2TIw=; b=XyJBFyBaM0mL3KOE7PYwvDoahBMBW9xguBuoGP23UHmNNzJWh2h+ibr0HB4H5O7vHh 6Phi0x65NeI4k0SisBMiK0pC5woeHx4k9gkJKnAwEdYLjNsdJlg7TcfE/K91ovAT76TI ArpcuMIh030BJ/3rwzMtGo/UkjBmvEpN43sVLCp/UjYD3pNsgXykWq8BSUkkzCG4GG1a OFETL6TQWC/qJj/ST6Y7QST6z+XeQRC0NgX6OjO6QARbRrohwd5d43pjZrGwccqFefhZ 2+q2gMH57poGOnetXQACZZvasJwWi3widevpfXDxM3LMfjODJTViuYNC7Xa9W5KF3v4O uo6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kWyGjggVhgHJ51DPlHlRk0TdaXYM3kjdr+TX4gQ2TIw=; b=XOP9CMeupyoZCc2xp8Gks71xPGDJiAWymVGJFx6e0F84eeUyZj0ZLaOeESWia3mQHh r3fZc/Lt8AuLbRcI5FsabhjXluI5d0sHovUFKLAxPkRALBZXulDUuv0NBoKrqObpgml2 g8oSnXOSNnr+8h81e/CnwqMYNPfnhTKri6rJSyzPvYwUFX2Y9a54lOv9qhnF9YIIdvXi l6M/DDo+G2XdzR9QlpavMVUtg9FF/6ZO6ZJOR/OkP+tmY3i3XM7jtdbqucTF08JAHC2m Y5c+6jUD7R6Y2LE9axD/mqTd5x7VRDfg0USSLcMbrxp7vQbJPuaJr27Tm0NkyiJh5Rca Fr7w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530g9GAfk7OiNkYq7KdNfdMcfhum4iR2MxLCoithbftYMOSixCZD BFkFdQVU34BOUvfmKhoeqYAeubUKen62OvKT9PP7XZ6CZxc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyMnp4hC5MaR5hCskzGSkLMLxr6Y09wlSjAxGJj8YHfdFg1KqOW5KsiBMTzboC6bq9LWeYqgr7vryWWF7MU8tg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:22c8:: with SMTP id g8mr9303572lfu.388.1613857083112; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:38:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 13:37:51 -0800 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000028429f05bbcb6205" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Submitted draft is missing from tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 21:38:13 -0000 --00000000000028429f05bbcb6205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carsten, perfect! Many thanks, you've solved my problem. Regards, Greg On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 11:21 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-mmm-rtgwg-integrated-oam/x= ml > > A copy is below. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > --00000000000028429f05bbcb6205 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Carsten,
perfect! Many thanks, you've solved my= problem.

Regards,
Greg

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sat, Feb= 20, 2021 at 11:21 AM Carsten Bormann <c= abo@tzi.org> wrote:
https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-mmm-rtgwg-integrated-oam/xml

A copy is below.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

--00000000000028429f05bbcb6205-- From nobody Tue Feb 23 05:39:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003F93A2B32 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 05:39:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jx8DU4QsZQHK for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 05:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF4483A1345 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 05:39:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DlKt05vGwzyY8; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 14:39:52 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635780392.349365-572108d736194736f3fba40521b67768 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 14:39:52 +0100 Message-Id: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> To: Tools Team Discussion X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Setting replaced-by X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 13:39:57 -0000 One of the great features of the datatracker is that it tells you which = document has been replaced by which. As an author, I=E2=80=99m really interested to be able to mark my = documents as replaced-by something bigger and greater. But it seems the = replaced-by arrow goes the other direction, so I can=E2=80=99t set it up = from the replaced document. Should I be able to mark my documents = replaced? (=46rom a discussion over at int-area.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Feb 23 06:40:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A1E3A0C1E for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 06:40:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B41eUWvPgsoQ for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 06:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A3443A0A69 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 06:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B84D300B5D for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:40:41 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 7ac2FlDP8RYT for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:40:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-141-156-161-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net [141.156.161.153]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 40961300ADB; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:40:40 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:40:41 -0500 Cc: Tools Team Discussion Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Setting replaced-by X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 14:40:46 -0000 Carsten: The Datatracker has both replaces and replaced-by pointers. Russ > On Feb 23, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > One of the great features of the datatracker is that it tells you = which document has been replaced by which. >=20 > As an author, I=E2=80=99m really interested to be able to mark my = documents as replaced-by something bigger and greater. But it seems the = replaced-by arrow goes the other direction, so I can=E2=80=99t set it up = from the replaced document. Should I be able to mark my documents = replaced? >=20 > (=46rom a discussion over at int-area.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Tue Feb 23 07:30:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C8D3A2C3E for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 07:30:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WlUZ7AG6tBBW for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 07:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0EE43A2C60 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 07:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 11NFU2aS027424 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:30:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1614094203; bh=UkoHB241fVEk2kjEx8l78vQCsMrijy346O58OZmtAps=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=tsA1eT6GAZks4Lyn09+FaXFOmPBIqeW5YYoZSgQbhX4p67gmhj2AIWV5pkyJT48Zo jSHX1N7kOHTtDdw983qK6J/lSQmie+4almo972nk3V0bFMGSyGbp5Fndsaaj7G63Go tQR7YuNkKjk0TxrL6yj0rYB1eCr0k0ZjOW8cwyyo= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <81d6af60-2835-dd86-2f31-95eb9f1224fe@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:29:57 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Setting replaced-by X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 15:30:09 -0000 On 2/23/21 8:40 AM, Russ Housley wrote: > Carsten: > > The Datatracker has both replaces and replaced-by pointers. The datatracker only stores replaces pointers - it computes replaced-by. Editing the relationship is only currently possible at the document that = does the replacing. And I think that's right. Carsten, for the use case=20 you're talking about, you will almost certainly be able to operate on=20 the document that is doing the replacing or know someone who can. Replaces is many-to-many. A document can replace several other=20 documents. A document can be replaced by several other documents.=20 Keeping a clear understanding of authority for replaces requires careful = attention. RjS > > Russ > > >> On Feb 23, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> >> One of the great features of the datatracker is that it tells you whic= h document has been replaced by which. >> >> As an author, I=E2=80=99m really interested to be able to mark my docu= ments as replaced-by something bigger and greater. But it seems the repl= aced-by arrow goes the other direction, so I can=E2=80=99t set it up from= the replaced document. Should I be able to mark my documents replaced? >> >> (From a discussion over at int-area.) >> >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf= =2Eorg >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/tools-discuss > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.= org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Tue Feb 23 09:19:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6428A3A0BEB for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:19:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fTCmo2Rp6W7M for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:19:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52B653A0BE9 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DlQl82FdjzyY6; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:19:16 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <81d6af60-2835-dd86-2f31-95eb9f1224fe@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:19:15 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635793555.703537-44f07afd089b7d664de4333270fcbaed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <25401D97-813F-427E-A41A-4AB24A2FF46F@tzi.org> References: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> <81d6af60-2835-dd86-2f31-95eb9f1224fe@nostrum.com> To: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Setting replaced-by X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:19:23 -0000 On 2021-02-23, at 16:29, Robert Sparks wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 2/23/21 8:40 AM, Russ Housley wrote: >> Carsten: >>=20 >> The Datatracker has both replaces and replaced-by pointers. >=20 > The datatracker only stores replaces pointers - it computes = replaced-by. >=20 > Editing the relationship is only currently possible at the document = that does the replacing. And I think that's right. Carsten, for the use = case you're talking about, you will almost certainly be able to operate = on the document that is doing the replacing or know someone who can. My use case actually was as an author of the replaced document. So I=E2=80=99ll have to talk to the author of the replacing document, = and it=E2=80=99s still somehow hard for them to get this status in there = (for good reasons!). Gets the whole thing in the =E2=80=9Cnot worth the effort=E2=80=9D = category too easily. > Replaces is many-to-many. A document can replace several other = documents. A document can be replaced by several other documents. = Keeping a clear understanding of authority for replaces requires careful = attention. I agree. =20 I was just trying to make it easier for the author of a replaced = document to acknowledge that their work has been superseded. (If we need a rendezvous here to make the relationship happen, that=E2=80=99= s fine too.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Feb 23 09:29:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F5A3A0C3A for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:29:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.079 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.079 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DUjBFrfDB5iB for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29CE93A0C33 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.1.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 11NHT86D070238 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:29:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1614101349; bh=tYdSOqu1b9vXHNSO5ZFqDI9AMByLPg9T2njsXx2Oc0s=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=VfSlbB8jdS6uiaIcInd8oeTMuFFwLHIaztfSJzKcKSAXZgHuzz+zdC74VUbFNHsiA d2BIS5qcsPuF9dg2H164W6WwLke9AhGZJT7uHGxuVuALAAroNnFQb7KBY8zkBEGLZ1 k9n9iQCKsQq5Oze2shpV4sdxvQyhwl1TOK+SK6bA= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Carsten Bormann Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> <81d6af60-2835-dd86-2f31-95eb9f1224fe@nostrum.com> <25401D97-813F-427E-A41A-4AB24A2FF46F@tzi.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <76975ba8-cdc4-ac32-c23e-1de698fdd585@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:29:03 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <25401D97-813F-427E-A41A-4AB24A2FF46F@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Setting replaced-by X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:29:12 -0000 On 2/23/21 11:19 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-02-23, at 16:29, Robert Sparks wrote: >> >> On 2/23/21 8:40 AM, Russ Housley wrote: >>> Carsten: >>> >>> The Datatracker has both replaces and replaced-by pointers. >> The datatracker only stores replaces pointers - it computes replaced-by. >> >> Editing the relationship is only currently possible at the document that does the replacing. And I think that's right. Carsten, for the use case you're talking about, you will almost certainly be able to operate on the document that is doing the replacing or know someone who can. > My use case actually was as an author of the replaced document. > So I’ll have to talk to the author of the replacing document, and it’s still somehow hard for them to get this status in there (for good reasons!). > Gets the whole thing in the “not worth the effort” category too easily. > >> Replaces is many-to-many. A document can replace several other documents. A document can be replaced by several other documents. Keeping a clear understanding of authority for replaces requires careful attention. > I agree. > I was just trying to make it easier for the author of a replaced document to acknowledge that their work has been superseded. > > (If we need a rendezvous here to make the relationship happen, that’s fine too.) How about "suggests has been replaced by" that sends a note to the secretariat? > > Grüße, Carsten > From nobody Tue Feb 23 09:48:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23BF53A0CA7 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:48:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t3dKcb7cKalp for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 097553A0CA2 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DlRN90dvbzyYW; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:47:53 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <76975ba8-cdc4-ac32-c23e-1de698fdd585@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:47:52 +0100 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 635795272.513847-9e4bf3eae3bbbe95d1769fede1a85d0d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6E2BBB86-57D3-4700-958C-CE166D404DE2@tzi.org> References: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> <81d6af60-2835-dd86-2f31-95eb9f1224fe@nostrum.com> <25401D97-813F-427E-A41A-4AB24A2FF46F@tzi.org> <76975ba8-cdc4-ac32-c23e-1de698fdd585@nostrum.com> To: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Setting replaced-by X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:48:00 -0000 On 2021-02-23, at 18:29, Robert Sparks wrote: >=20 > How about "suggests has been replaced by" that sends a note to the = secretariat? Works for me. (I could have thought about sending a note to the secretariat, but while = I still was Working Group chair, I noted a strong hesitance by WG = members to contact the secretariat on anything, which probably now = afflicts me as well :-) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Feb 23 11:37:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9DD3A1108 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ls5tzJDIfqTC for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94F883A1105 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F8A3899DC; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UF5QyXzO9zIJ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-73-71-162-89.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [73.71.162.89]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0CAA13899CE; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\)) From: Cindy Morgan In-Reply-To: <6E2BBB86-57D3-4700-958C-CE166D404DE2@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:37:23 -0800 Cc: Robert Sparks , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> <81d6af60-2835-dd86-2f31-95eb9f1224fe@nostrum.com> <25401D97-813F-427E-A41A-4AB24A2FF46F@tzi.org> <76975ba8-cdc4-ac32-c23e-1de698fdd585@nostrum.com> <6E2BBB86-57D3-4700-958C-CE166D404DE2@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Setting replaced-by X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 19:37:28 -0000 > On Feb 23, 2021, at 9:47 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On 2021-02-23, at 18:29, Robert Sparks wrote: >>=20 >> How about "suggests has been replaced by" that sends a note to the = secretariat? >=20 > Works for me. >=20 > (I could have thought about sending a note to the secretariat, but = while I still was Working Group chair, I noted a strong hesitance by WG = members to contact the secretariat on anything, which probably now = afflicts me as well :-) Speaking as a member of the Secretariat team, we are here to help! If = there is something you think we can be of assistance on, please don't = hesitate to contact us. Thanks, Cindy >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Feb 23 11:39:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A14E3A110C for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:39:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WELCOMELIST=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KZDC8vThPS-b for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:39:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCBC13A10F0 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:39:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4174B3899CE for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:39:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.86.9] (173-8-133-94-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.133.94]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 34928389896 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:39:00 -0800 (PST) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <67D68882-E26F-4F11-8B4A-2193DF464123@tzi.org> <81d6af60-2835-dd86-2f31-95eb9f1224fe@nostrum.com> <25401D97-813F-427E-A41A-4AB24A2FF46F@tzi.org> <76975ba8-cdc4-ac32-c23e-1de698fdd585@nostrum.com> <6E2BBB86-57D3-4700-958C-CE166D404DE2@tzi.org> From: Glen Organization: AMS Message-ID: <8dbd339a-78be-01ac-6d8b-cfa8f935daa9@amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:38:59 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6E2BBB86-57D3-4700-958C-CE166D404DE2@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Setting replaced-by X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 19:39:27 -0000 On 2/23/2021 09:47, Carsten Bormann wrote: > (I could have thought about sending a note to the secretariat, but while I still was Working Group chair, I noted a strong hesitance by WG members to contact the secretariat on anything, which probably now afflicts me as well :-) I hope that affliction passes quickly. The secretariat (of which I'm a part) would not want anyone thinking that contact was unwelcome. They - and I - are all here to help, and if anyone has something to talk to us about, please do not hesitate so to do. Glen -- Glen Barney IT Director AMS (IETF Secretariat) From nobody Tue Feb 23 23:49:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29EAF3A0DBA for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 23:49:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.671 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.671 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.57, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sfHpG8ymIoby for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 23:49:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr150074.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.15.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C3913A0C9A for ; 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Wed, 24 Feb 2021 07:49:11 +0000 From: John Mattsson To: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: People outside IETF only finds old draft versions - makes people believe EAP-TLS 1.3 was abandoned 2.5 years ago Thread-Index: AQHXCoGKcpTh3Bx1YEyMXh6hDnKhag== Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 07:49:11 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.46.21021202 authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [81.225.97.222] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: facb302b-998e-4939-b96e-08d8d898acba x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4121: x-ms-exchange-minimumurldomainage: ietf.org#9482 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <428D15AF86D6724286EE2A25EF25FD7B@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB6PR0701MB3047.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: facb302b-998e-4939-b96e-08d8d898acba X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Feb 2021 07:49:11.6452 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vF0m8Tkw3r3+vd8UCZinu7IxtfanRW5kLo7Qpe9FFcDTQEKXnNRIbFrY3+AkrKOLpqV9Swb2I7UK8tcOH9U5bn/PpTAX4SsYKREn6ZVtU2M= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4121 Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] People outside IETF only finds old draft versions - makes people believe EAP-TLS 1.3 was abandoned 2.5 years ago X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 07:49:16 -0000 SGksDQoNCkZpcnN0LCB0aGFua3MgZm9yIGFsbCB0aGUgZ3JlYXQgdG9vbHMuDQoNCkZvciBhdCBs ZWFzdCB0aGUgdGhpcmQgdGltZSBpbiBqdXN0IGEgZmV3IG1vbnRocyBJIGhhdmUgYmVlbiByZWNl aXZlZCBtYWlscyBmcm9tIHBlcnNvbnMgZnJvbSBvdGhlciBTRE9zLCBvcGVyYXRpbmcgc3lzdGVt cywgYW5kIG5ldHdvcmsgZXF1aXBtZW50IHRoYXQgaXMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiBpbXBsZW1lbnRp bmcgRUFQLVRMUyAxLjMgYnV0IGZvciBzb21lIHJlYXNvbiBmaW5kIHZlcnNpb24gLTAzIG9uIHRv b2xzLmlldGYub3JnIGFuZCB0aGlua3MgaXQgaGFzIGJlZW4gYWJhbmRvbmVkIDIuNSB5ZWFycyBh Z28uIA0KDQpJIGRvbid0IGtub3cgd2h5IHRoZXkgZmluZCAtMDMsIGJ1dCBhIEdvb2dsZSBzZWFy Y2ggZm9yICJlYXAgdGxzIDEuMyB0b29scyIgc2VlbXMgdG8gZ2l2ZSB0aGF0IGFzIHRoZSBmaXJz dCByZXN1bHQuDQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWVtdS1l YXAtdGxzMTMtMDMNCg0KVGhlcmUgc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUgc29tZSBidWcgaW4gdG9vbHMgc28gdGhh dCBubyBuZXdlciB2ZXJzaW9ucyB0aGF0IC0wNCBzaG93IHVwIHdoZW4geW91IGxvb2sgYXQgLTAz LiAoQWN0dWFsbHkgY2xpY2tpbmcgb24gLTA0IG1ha2VzIGFsbCB2ZXJzaW9ucyBwb3AgdXAsIGJ1 dCBvYnZpb3VzbHkgbWFueSBwZW9wbGUgZG8gbm90IHJlYWxpemUgdGhhdC4uLikNCg0KSWYgYWRv cHRpb24gb2YgSUVURiBzdGFuZGFyZHMgaW50byBwcm9kdWN0IGFuZCBvdGhlciBTRE9zIGdldCBk ZWxheWVkIHRoYXQgaXMgcXVpdGUgYSBiaWcgcHJvYmxlbS4NCg0KSXQgdGhlcmUgYW55dGhpbmcg bW9yZSB0aGFuIGp1c3QgZml4aW5nIHRoZSBidWcgdGhhdCBjYW4gYmUgZG9uZT8gQ291bGQgdG9v bHMgc29tZWhvdyB3YXJuIHRoZSByZWFkZXIgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIG5ld2VyIHZlcnNpb24g YXZhaWxhYmxlPyBNYXliZSB3aXRoIGEgc3R5bGlzaCA8Ymxpbms+IHRhZyA7KQ0KDQpDaGVlcnMs DQpKb2huDQoNCg0K From nobody Wed Feb 24 00:32:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858683A111C for ; 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Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:31:58 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:31:57 +0100 Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8E0C9B94-8514-4E9C-8353-7694DD2FCF2A@tzi.org> References: To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] People outside IETF only finds old draft versions - makes people believe EAP-TLS 1.3 was abandoned 2.5 years ago X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 08:32:04 -0000 On 24. Feb 2021, at 08:49, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > There seems to be some bug in tools so that no newer versions that -04 = show up when you look at -03. (Actually clicking on -04 makes all = versions pop up, but obviously many people do not realize that=E2=80=A6) The swallowing of some updates is a long-standing bug with the = tools.ietf.org presentation of documents that really, really, really = needs to be fixed. What we are not going to be able to fix is that google favours older = over newer documents. So the landing pages for older documents always need the links to the = newer ones (or, more generally, status information). The attempt to have static information (this document expires in=E2=80=A6)= inside the archived document is misdirected. (That information is nearly always wrong and misleading.) I know that there is some aversion to JavaScript, but the metadata.js = approach for the 8650+ RFCs looks exactly right to me; we could do the = same for I-Ds to emulate the usefulness that the tools.ietf.org pages = gave us (when updated right). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Feb 25 14:22:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED703A0D2A for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:22:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 83I2PIhU0oDz for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com (mail-qt1-x832.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C8383A0D27 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id 18so2735900qty.3 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:22:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yhLEkmBpQcJ9HR6Ewcu/vaMw1s8q0oy7vpG4NQlzIlI=; b=YWcD3FWeFdA/qaFPB5lXhTOwShFTpoPepkW7YAZgY2yT0MQ4beznfgigBKxylx5mdB M5h6RFTbyy9k5ajWhRkiq20+Eh1m1jJpapYrYf91f+2ylEzQazQuT416b+HtjmrHSRoA LvwtfYjJ6y78fsM35WlB0aA38ct1lT9Eo6bBDAGxdvaAh7XzgYPnftQEJrUJSIEQ4U5T BUyUBJ5trFaO8/4aUWX63mrqdK7Y22n3VzxFdZ7dILgh+D40ilPRBXtHSaNookjCbw+y m2z+TuiVZgWzojkpHEUgt4KT7qsg6RDpsC2e9+pJVCTYeAi93fBnRj2vx3cdOogeY2HM rQ2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yhLEkmBpQcJ9HR6Ewcu/vaMw1s8q0oy7vpG4NQlzIlI=; b=RgZgtgzdx7LIe9yzQI7oQKENjXSi8fTvVT31r/NU9KZ4TktZNQSOdRebfUh8pdZ9J4 hTHolicGevhE9eHvErqkHR/FYgLa9xTEHajGWYB7WKvxR26Vc/zeGu6SY7RDCWm90C/0 Q8dl3cHfdAH/fjdSxBM0dU1K0fb7ljOmpw2vf04RY1qouH0PCKcYlmw6QwXYjSwRAGLM uNvd3KUexK/P1SELFuI5BXcb6ozDKe0qC7iQ3SOjIbylQwuN20bEt7Djtbmz7mbShhKs E8HeyjNY/pJbVLaxXrpndwbmAG+k/7E4L6PhvKKnCWB/KqoAo+cg4bpSRij7SsWrO7V4 QaLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530JZGBhDBULl9QXRMHl39azvxYLJ7AU/3L3vkMc8DCD+tre4BZj 55BdPAUkzA4XAM5/bYmeuzuy/VnvtTXWBESz+QAHgA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJys6uZhUiUX5yyJAyT1JdvUDRNaIxAjNeOdCnVBphbZaiCbK6MMrrZww2vUr3/AbjRhuM/sGdbcwDkL5rzcOrc= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7651:: with SMTP id i17mr252205qtr.153.1614291766615; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:22:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jeffrey Yasskin Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 14:22:35 -0800 Message-ID: To: John Mattsson Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000050804105bc309706" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] People outside IETF only finds old draft versions - makes people believe EAP-TLS 1.3 was abandoned 2.5 years ago X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:22:50 -0000 --00000000000050804105bc309706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I used to see this a lot with versioned technical documentation, and I realize I haven't noticed it in a while outside of the IETF. Python documentation used to do it, but now pages like https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/subprocess.html include a that points search engines toward the latest version. This is something of a mis-use of , since a new version's documentation isn't a complete replacement for the old version's, but it seems to mostly work in practice. Would it make sense for versioned pages like https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-03 to include a pointing at the unversioned URL? This still wouldn't help when I-Ds change names or are published as RFCs, but it would fix the most common instances of the problem. Jeffrey On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 11:49 PM John Mattsson wrote: > Hi, > > First, thanks for all the great tools. > > For at least the third time in just a few months I have been received > mails from persons from other SDOs, operating systems, and network > equipment that is interested in implementing EAP-TLS 1.3 but for some > reason find version -03 on tools.ietf.org and thinks it has been > abandoned 2.5 years ago. > > I don't know why they find -03, but a Google search for "eap tls 1.3 > tools" seems to give that as the first result. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-03 > > There seems to be some bug in tools so that no newer versions that -04 > show up when you look at -03. (Actually clicking on -04 makes all versions > pop up, but obviously many people do not realize that...) > > If adoption of IETF standards into product and other SDOs get delayed that > is quite a big problem. > > It there anything more than just fixing the bug that can be done? Could > tools somehow warn the reader that there is a newer version available? > Maybe with a stylish tag ;) > > Cheers, > John > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > --00000000000050804105bc309706 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I used to see this a lot with versioned technical doc= umentation, and I realize I haven't noticed it in a while outside of th= e IETF. Python documentation used to do it, but now pages like=C2=A0https://docs.pytho= n.org/3.6/library/subprocess.html include a=C2=A0<link rel=3D"c= anonical" href=3D"https://docs.python.org/3/library/subprocess.html"&= gt; that points search engines toward the latest version. This is something= of a mis-use of <link rel=3Dcanonical>, since a new version's=C2= =A0documentation isn't a complete replacement for the old version's= , but it seems to mostly work in practice.

Would i= t make sense for versioned pages like https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-e= ap-tls13-03 to include a <link rel=3Dcanonical href=3D"https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13"> pointing at the unversion= ed URL? This still wouldn't help when I-Ds change names or are publishe= d as RFCs, but it would fix the most common instances of the problem.
=

Jeffrey

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 11:49 PM John Mattsson &= lt;john.mattsson=3D40erics= son.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi,

First, thanks for all the great tools.

For at least the third time in just a few months I have been received mails= from persons from other SDOs, operating systems, and network equipment tha= t is interested in implementing EAP-TLS 1.3 but for some reason find versio= n -03 on tools.ietf.org and thinks it has been abandoned 2.5 years ago.
I don't know why they find -03, but a Google search for "eap tls 1= .3 tools" seems to give that as the first result.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-ea= p-tls13-03

There seems to be some bug in tools so that no newer versions that -04 show= up when you look at -03. (Actually clicking on -04 makes all versions pop = up, but obviously many people do not realize that...)

If adoption of IETF standards into product and other SDOs get delayed that = is quite a big problem.

It there anything more than just fixing the bug that can be done? Could too= ls somehow warn the reader that there is a newer version available? Maybe w= ith a stylish <blink> tag ;)

Cheers,
John


___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
--00000000000050804105bc309706-- From nobody Fri Feb 26 00:26:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA8383A0BB8 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 00:26:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z-KmbwDQcrjy for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 00:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9250D3A0BB3 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 00:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:b9:15ed:9bd5:c92f] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:b9:15ed:9bd5:c92f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9700960004C for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:26:12 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1614327972; bh=JBdYY3fWgxxNj5VClYeCG/Aht9kZiR6jjEMWsDZbSbw=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To; b=A6Bc+9Z+we/b/axaiAMwQNTf0whUk8GTeZxBXiN/QC2zNrXJsgRnFs9zVmEgDhdjH AVqaIsO78bZ90eGz6zAL9VIBx3L8LM/xsrxm0cnWgZiXMcJ/Ok27SQd7AHDQIrqV6x mlJ7x21V5CkR9rSWh0RTB2Y/nHI2eHYPxMWC+xlw= From: Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_212BCFEF-269E-4831-B884-4CCC9B3688A1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:26:12 +0200 References: <75f050cb-def7-d7eb-2594-39f5853a624e@nostrum.com> To: tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <75f050cb-def7-d7eb-2594-39f5853a624e@nostrum.com> Message-Id: <800EE592-5623-4456-830F-80ADB9C4502B@eggert.org> X-MailScanner-ID: 9700960004C.A07CD X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reminder: chat service trials X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:26:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_212BCFEF-269E-4831-B884-4CCC9B3688A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2021-2-25, at 20:37, Robert Sparks wrote: > * Is providing local jabber accounts and a web interface to jabber = sufficient to address the access issues encountered in the past? no. Especially on mobile devices, a native client is much preferable to = a web interface to chat. > * Are there features that matrix or zulip provide that are truly = helpful for progressing IETF work? If so, please describe how they are = helping. Mobile clients. Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_212BCFEF-269E-4831-B884-4CCC9B3688A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmA4sKQACgkQVLXDCb9w wVcQCQ//fpO/T4xZN2VOzv9xBfj5d1IAciIWNGsHwUhZqyt7vRO/0SnaEZqgJ6pG 3AiXWhgaCt8YbEfckngejp9DnswjMmIglXsAjZozc3KhHPs7VgJ1IFDoO2xwfoXc wcFoGi0i/FAPHB4Vii9QBftXD4Y3Yt5v0uQCAKw3kg6Cl0cs4vMZtDRWWfNAFWhk +IO7eMMBlcg0ZtFPwTUsi7h5HA03bX4c9IKIWcLFCr+w5eLa2unsvf+6J0FL2eE3 QRXxJAEat7TuZAj2xDoNXWNXR3k7QNK9ITeqlHO0M2xbAI3Y+AWLPJFZePbGrKsT pz0d7reFUF5DaObNmHEU9+2Y9WqNIZ0MCYhiJZKHszoQTe9iajL9akMIolF8dX9T C+DikK3CvOsqBgZAfppakfWsegb9yTj6U1AN89Cy1swrijlAjh00U/othHmsBWiS xO0nMCnH1tWMx3xwSy6rsXAeM1CPs/qGtuKKKyhz0qwZsmqD2hg+2EfayyJeZhTd nnLm40QhsLcxE3zk9pTcjAyrhu+CP3qkd090MaHno+nDxp4m2oOE7sV0KnqQUZ6c xKM9LhQucjla/qcc9HK11TWvDu9LV7+o3W4VsZw5oLwG1/CQ4GTR4i08gyEboWiI am9AIjFgsTa3/jsXicUXxB6R6Ls0f5IuV3VCq7cdwIRJj7+n8JY= =5Duo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_212BCFEF-269E-4831-B884-4CCC9B3688A1-- From nobody Fri Feb 26 03:18:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253743A134A for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:18:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ihz4mvVfp_e for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 830463A1347 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id w19so8608707qki.13 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:18:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=22Y3V8iHCuqn+PK8cvFOebB8dkfaTvONiPpAlhyuCoY=; b=FScJCvINq65pjM9NvR/446OtrRkHs+DIlFUsJlYYc+mRVPsLn6PLvFACGKc5Z15PK8 bN+NzRvy7ADpFkiRTCrfVwssRx/OpsEZ3vh1kf34wgGC1rWtWWkv+4OL4O1NRaOuwaiA atf6/dqpJ3Tv9PqlsTMFUfS/Pd+49SFAiaIBHXQV0nQXElNDCTTi5WrgZkkNurQlFfzZ ieGdt9vY+ErGAzQgJiND/kwy4pGyXkevn2mACsTalp2O1qycMdbxW58YKTO94mCMG7x+ xIA10sOp9LYNGMbnhuiXDf/81c/wvD2TB385wzvBOyyHIhAcktTfGSHujSYxU2G+8dBX HXeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=22Y3V8iHCuqn+PK8cvFOebB8dkfaTvONiPpAlhyuCoY=; b=nV2xj6f7zu8YNhleyyM6SXqYPsJRJf2K2A9pd1xuuGvSTU54EeDZsliYeyfd6RRWv2 6vuPeQU8kPlgqR4VJl4cW5qPSbbq3hHAPRJmwB3uK2EClB6E4BinBkbP1cFWMPlGMtEA VPHCZmZoLeo4Gsot+0m9yXyS2Etrq5dddA0mCuYj0u5OshzPDNAHVpxkmpKQByOmwWOV grh5svJM4eQmQ9lK6eE1OSrMGDdI0hN+KtT7nifRs55Uqkz4XRkEemhv/JenS3BoQgKU Bpa44185G9uimOFz/yUMSXvvWmCzh4ntF6lfcy8CeVNSDN98BI+I8fFyqokB63+tKS53 k3SA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533rggNMkTs7n8q0gS0ILBlh+piO5lVvlldplnuZHqk1CLjEFFmk sZIr08IUTKCJQlAN10FHQIa4cryZVlmFwkHWbVE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJymrEmn059x2kq9yPsl7Nw+SYuVPFh7I42C9JkDggZvtQqaBHLcPKcTgHDfnpUuWVuYhnoFgcKPl1jIYDClaow= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:f446:: with SMTP id z6mr2037796qkl.101.1614338333401; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:18:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <75f050cb-def7-d7eb-2594-39f5853a624e@nostrum.com> <800EE592-5623-4456-830F-80ADB9C4502B@eggert.org> In-Reply-To: <800EE592-5623-4456-830F-80ADB9C4502B@eggert.org> From: Matthew Wild Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:18:41 +0000 Message-ID: To: Lars Eggert Cc: tools-discuss Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reminder: chat service trials X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:18:58 -0000 Hi Lars, On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 at 08:26, Lars Eggert wrote: > On 2021-2-25, at 20:37, Robert Sparks wrote: > > * Is providing local jabber accounts and a web interface to jabber sufficient to address the access issues encountered in the past? > > no. Especially on mobile devices, a native client is much preferable to a web interface to chat. Agreed! You can create an account on the service using a native mobile client. Go to https://xmpp-trial1.ietf.org/ and click "Create account". Choose either Conversations (Android) or Siskin (iOS). > > * Are there features that matrix or zulip provide that are truly helpful for progressing IETF work? If so, please describe how they are helping. > > Mobile clients. See above. Regards, Matthew From nobody Fri Feb 26 09:25:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7483A1337 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 09:25:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XjdYAO765W04 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 09:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D83DE3A1334 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 09:25:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 819BBBE24; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 17:25:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U3u7RSR4nXhQ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 17:25:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.242] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CB14BE1C; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 17:25:07 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1614360307; bh=9GUYNIgiDnu9ny0s5yiCfc5Qh5EfNVSvsU6DASYoyqo=; h=To:Cc:From:Subject:Date:From; b=FbQOUougcKayDCA4wOuV7teJTWLY+sKgAkZeB0Sdkow7oUxjBwVdJwYFq7Yg/vbgq ZVy7oWDZtr5nQ3+DQmtS/4m0JIL6qy6MinbXv/UPw90NGbpt1L3+IUDMcL+IKcYzrm IyMqMBE8Vqk7t+qZ50mNdOljk/1BpUjqO6NKFatE= To: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 17:25:06 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9U4SFMcGjIFs4Fli7rDq1eNCOewpxI0F1" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] openpgp jabber room and matrix.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 17:25:15 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --9U4SFMcGjIFs4Fli7rDq1eNCOewpxI0F1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="I3k3TeT2O68OvQg2JjquQCFJsVE0jXLad"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" Cc: Daniel Kahn Gillmor Message-ID: Subject: openpgp jabber room and matrix.org --I3k3TeT2O68OvQg2JjquQCFJsVE0jXLad Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9B5BA7E94BC5F372A8A5FA1C" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9B5BA7E94BC5F372A8A5FA1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, Nothing urgent here but be good if we can fix. I'm happy to be online and type stuff if/when that helps. I tried to join the openpgp wg jabber room from matrix.org (using element/ubuntu). That room wasn't visible from the room list for the IETF test server. (The WG has only recently been re-created - it used exist before.) I tried to manually join the room even though it wasn't listed by putting "#xmpp_openpgp_jabber.ietf.org:matrix.org" into the room name dialog in element. I think that didn't work 1st time, but 2nd time I got "Bifrost Bot created and configured the room." and was joined in fine. (I just copied that string from other room names.) I then also joined the jabber room using pidgin. I can see the right roster in both clients. But - messages from element are showing up in pidgin, whereas messages entered in pidgin are not showing up in element. The roster, while maybe correct in element, is showing all the native jabber users as offline even though at least I'm in there via pidgin. Again, no rush to fix, but be good if this was working for IETF-110. My guess is that I did something wrong in how I triggered the bot or something, or maybe this is due to the WG being newly chartered, or being a WG that used to be closed but is now re-opened. Thanks, S. PS: Sorry if this isn't the best place to report - I forget where in matrix.org-land there was support offered for this fine experiment;-) --------------9B5BA7E94BC5F372A8A5FA1C Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY 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c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1614362574; bh=h/jb2TqB7yji277X20oEg/kSVdGkA8KlCLzzBA28Nfw=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=uLZF0MPj5TKFXT4BRNNhXB0oUkYNuFXp8oQWgGb5LqjWp8jZ7q/2kgkqFe2T1F65u cEW/v/C3927k3XEJ9BHprFPKj7CljLKrKOvPw3T6Yx7UbCJQCF0VcRFEhU4dSvBDwM CXs+3yzbVII9M8EyUHF76hB2L92uwf79Tb6d33zs= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.1.92] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: "Salz, Rich" , tom petch , tools-discuss References: <780EF9C1-11FA-4ED2-B206-1FD82A1204CE@tzi.org> <3fee246b-7a01-7a4f-cb7a-a548f4040bd1@nostrum.com> <60392FB9.9060801@btconnect.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:02:47 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:03:04 -0000 So, I _think_ the way the main document page behaves now was intended to protect people on low bandwidth or expensive bandwidth connections from very large documents. Is that still something we should consider important? Or would it be better if the main page served the whole document all the time? RjS On 2/26/21 11:46 AM, Salz, Rich wrote: > Moved from rfc-interest (BCC) to tools-discuss. > >> My pet hate is that I have to scroll to the bottom before I can tell the > system that I want the lot. > > (Are hates what peeves become when fully grown? :) > > One the one hand, I get it. I find it annoying too. On the other hand, you're presumably already down at the bottom of the page at the time you see it. On the third hand, it's annoying to have to tweak the link if you already started sharing it. On the fourth hand, it could be an easy change. > > When would you want to get the full document? When you click on a document from the WG page? (e.g., https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/acme/documents/ ) > > From nobody Fri Feb 26 10:05:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FCA93A140D for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:05:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3xQwdKSyKgz0 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 236E63A140C for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id f1so15145967lfu.3 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:05:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eqcYSjUlvmbe3KLiWaYLEXG4ObMMUUPIe3kfzGsA0ok=; b=JQm8/YvwqLlb7kt8cTdHLaFyGcHPBjCqB5YoYwN6Ia4wjkzeL1oZWEBA12BNvETADw L0Q6JrLUZ6BzeHY36xEZE81RU3MG7I2jQfwdtOTLvsKZ6XvKppJcunVNu9W2bIncwseT hGs3pJPAQ+THxyUZcp9UZZjMI7BTLdPh1+yTO9TAOYTTMs3BgO4VstcQDp5xlRbPZsDO fdcS2u7E5BYqFKDDKxaJjRhm75MNP8XXRpZi6lzbBslr9gBHxEE2GY7nXLB67ruSQ+yF bUkCmdv7eu615EYDXy23nlX3Udktp+La7f86yJBOKR2z5GWvRPbcuK/csPRkNme5O5G7 eEmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eqcYSjUlvmbe3KLiWaYLEXG4ObMMUUPIe3kfzGsA0ok=; b=hVJgc34SMSVqlgWIcF+9GwSrNJoeeokiZwwDsXxj4Hr8eqzQVnrjduFDQvDWQrH+5W OIfKhCcnELueyJGWrSad4ieKXpnnRCYyBl161rmyONIQeTj374WtSY169XlOEl3tjtw0 XCs72j6M932GNG/mZyqVMtULuAwBzFVyBPN+V71HqMxTwilH3raCRRiMTfIngOmFWEKZ b7aF1uuIcIAMnZj86HEWoqsmyuZW0//ThhwZZmJ1DYHwn2vEcoUJFi53A5ELzkpo7NK+ rCDJbPrz0g/PrNxL+tuBQCwDrkbFHSL8tDNO8tpxT7pWn/oBUlBZSWvI0MMU9VgCO0AV c7wA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530L9LnfELAnDiaF/4JGvKyLoNYZMXr2plVlIoOGM3/i1tsZYCP4 yMP9O/duTq2w3ZHQBwEsOPvrgj9q/8Uuuo66zAXndQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyJFD9HNgeIJHe4xy9+rdo7coyXy8K9I/yohfYRI85DaWNa0gvPNXixcI+HEBy8WTH1++QcTMQll9amr2YPLeo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:36c1:: with SMTP id e1mr2333802lfs.132.1614362707357; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:05:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <780EF9C1-11FA-4ED2-B206-1FD82A1204CE@tzi.org> <3fee246b-7a01-7a4f-cb7a-a548f4040bd1@nostrum.com> <60392FB9.9060801@btconnect.com> <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:04:31 -0800 Message-ID: To: Robert Sparks Cc: "Salz, Rich" , tom petch , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b6045e05bc411b64" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:05:12 -0000 --000000000000b6045e05bc411b64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 10:03 AM Robert Sparks wrote: > So, I _think_ the way the main document page behaves now was intended to > protect people on low bandwidth or expensive bandwidth connections from > very large documents. > > Is that still something we should consider important? Or would it be > better if the main page served the whole document all the time? > I think that's largely unnecessary at this time, especially given that a lot of people currently go to tools which serves the whole thing -Ekr > RjS > > On 2/26/21 11:46 AM, Salz, Rich wrote: > > Moved from rfc-interest (BCC) to tools-discuss. > > > >> My pet hate is that I have to scroll to the bottom before I can > tell the > > system that I want the lot. > > > > (Are hates what peeves become when fully grown? :) > > > > One the one hand, I get it. I find it annoying too. On the other hand, > you're presumably already down at the bottom of the page at the time you > see it. On the third hand, it's annoying to have to tweak the link if you > already started sharing it. On the fourth hand, it could be an easy change. > > > > When would you want to get the full document? When you click on a > document from the WG page? (e.g., > https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/acme/documents/ ) > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > --000000000000b6045e05bc411b64 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 10:03 AM Robe= rt Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com<= /a>> wrote:
S= o, I _think_ the way the main document page behaves now was intended to protect people on low bandwidth or expensive bandwidth connections from very large documents.

Is that still something we should consider important? Or would it be
better if the main page served the whole document all the time?

I think that's largely unnecessary at this tim= e, especially given that a lot of people currently go to tools which serves= the whole thing

-Ekr


RjS

On 2/26/21 11:46 AM, Salz, Rich wrote:
> Moved from rfc-interest (BCC) to tools-discuss.
>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0My pet hate is that I have to scroll to the bot= tom before I can tell the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 system that I want the lot.
>
> (Are hates what peeves become when fully grown? :)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
> One the one hand, I get it.=C2=A0 I find it annoying too.=C2=A0 On the= other hand, you're presumably already down at the bottom of the page a= t the time you see it. On the third hand, it's annoying to have to twea= k the link if you already started sharing it. On the fourth hand, it could = be an easy change.
>
> When would you want to get the full document?=C2=A0 When you click on = a document from the WG page?=C2=A0 (e.g., https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/wg/acme/documents/ )
>
>

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
--000000000000b6045e05bc411b64-- From nobody Fri Feb 26 10:07:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F843A14CB for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:07:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.4, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bAfnHoV89U1V for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:07:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21F563A1535 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.60.165] (76-209-242-70.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net [76.209.242.70]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.proper.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 11QI7tH7057566 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:07:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.proper.com: Host 76-209-242-70.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net [76.209.242.70] claimed to be [10.32.60.165] From: "Paul Hoffman" To: "Eric Rescorla" , "Robert Sparks" Cc: tools-discuss Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:07:33 -0800 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.2r5673) Message-ID: <872980DC-A1CC-43DD-94D5-8CEEE2537785@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: References: <780EF9C1-11FA-4ED2-B206-1FD82A1204CE@tzi.org> <3fee246b-7a01-7a4f-cb7a-a548f4040bd1@nostrum.com> <60392FB9.9060801@btconnect.com> <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:07:54 -0000 On 26 Feb 2021, at 10:04, Eric Rescorla wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 10:03 AM Robert Sparks > wrote: > >> So, I _think_ the way the main document page behaves now was intended >> to >> protect people on low bandwidth or expensive bandwidth connections >> from >> very large documents. >> >> Is that still something we should consider important? Or would it be >> better if the main page served the whole document all the time? >> > > I think that's largely unnecessary at this time, especially given that > a > lot of people currently go to tools which serves the whole thing +1 to Robert's memory, and +1 to Ekr's proposal and reasoning. --Paul Hoffman From nobody Fri Feb 26 10:38:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AEE73A14A2 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:38:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LCXcbvsvykyX for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D4203A149D for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id e10so9283091wro.12 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:38:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=RhAn4YAlU8j9Fq7OKo7PkIHYZjAg+mR9/KLCt+9asFo=; b=sKcfOt+klSpOvnOrOAwqVuDhvlnWZL/JjegqSMnhILKPL2bPPse3S5zMlGbzlfOv77 vDJUM44nTvAZA2yYtI4K3zhpGNnl6swWLTMqDhSImdBuOlS5D1Nl+wWh7uC0otHxN0+b aTlnSDOBwx/gDGSzo6E6RImGum0q3BHrRmPG6Z8VV+Bd2T+Y8Xo9k+UVaUUXCG/zV9XV 8KlWi8EISv2CFVeY7HrJmKLqJ7Dx97Oag6akI6LoondFc4GfrwbelXNMU7hOqW+cH6X3 oKymQ+5szjwbb85lFTxDm6YkHI9EVIjlvWRUiJ9KaIowsNH/07dmD6LjTaVqO27opo2q GeSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=RhAn4YAlU8j9Fq7OKo7PkIHYZjAg+mR9/KLCt+9asFo=; b=kV5HCvVSYbNMhwnrF0egmbOQgJlHuowKlL0dbKIX1BUuDHgq4ALcaulkXkMLkMrLiZ o89fuAWEKG4kPKPeeKvzYka6rijN0n4HqrolU5yM8EegExWxv1wFtDqxdhvOE2c6BIZP TB60uAMw0wgalIqid/bnI3tLQBtJQmPn2q7i5B6xoQR8/nLibGRhDLVIkV7nXDPb9n6t Fuo/Cn2NmcxH2ieAYith7uG6/G1wjY2A8PG+kpvK4Df9wvbxTe4/5nqCTYjXtH2QRYrF YPuuJBmxyNJTfVgzMvRXCIy1TqAz5vCEm0+g7NTJy/5ldY45Fmq1jXoCNLpOnfcZi/Oh w7Hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533wY/J4yrx6UYpqHkgQZLifPsMzwwghw6niEe1duGjI4+Pb94ev pPsbLdNZJMI9wqr50h/ics4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxEhbxzK3W7MAdHPl4V3WcJCMNvOYHJLxiSZgiwUcjmpZaSIrfXLIucP8O1cNgCxLwhaCqveQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4ad0:: with SMTP id y16mr4571888wrs.399.1614364711337; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:9b7:3c34:f7b0:1042:45df? ([2601:647:5a00:9b7:3c34:f7b0:1042:45df]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z9sm14178114wrv.56.2021.02.26.10.38.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:38:30 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AA2C898F-9DC3-4043-9AFC-6C93BB6E8E98"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 10:38:29 -0800 In-Reply-To: <872980DC-A1CC-43DD-94D5-8CEEE2537785@vpnc.org> Cc: Bob Hinden , Eric Rescorla , Robert Sparks , tools-discuss To: Paul Hoffman References: <780EF9C1-11FA-4ED2-B206-1FD82A1204CE@tzi.org> <3fee246b-7a01-7a4f-cb7a-a548f4040bd1@nostrum.com> <60392FB9.9060801@btconnect.com> <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> <872980DC-A1CC-43DD-94D5-8CEEE2537785@vpnc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:38:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AA2C898F-9DC3-4043-9AFC-6C93BB6E8E98 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Feb 26, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Paul Hoffman = wrote: >=20 > On 26 Feb 2021, at 10:04, Eric Rescorla wrote: >=20 >> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 10:03 AM Robert Sparks = wrote: >>=20 >>> So, I _think_ the way the main document page behaves now was = intended to >>> protect people on low bandwidth or expensive bandwidth connections = from >>> very large documents. >>>=20 >>> Is that still something we should consider important? Or would it be >>> better if the main page served the whole document all the time? >>>=20 >>=20 >> I think that's largely unnecessary at this time, especially given = that a >> lot of people currently go to tools which serves the whole thing >=20 > +1 to Robert's memory, and +1 to Ekr's proposal and reasoning. Agreed. Bob >=20 > --Paul Hoffman >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --Apple-Mail=_AA2C898F-9DC3-4043-9AFC-6C93BB6E8E98 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAmA5QCUACgkQrut0EXfn u6iF2AgAvNV/aymdpEPiQZl4ktPB8BqBrjp542rTsKxRyX/gpIPLmpaI/4VvXhDT tkLkJT+Y4G+FF42qCzVAcCE5SiivLFXqEUOuZqoMiZYr5w04yZj+fqOeL+fs8XqL WM8e2AkYro35/KxkmT/oVSboB2F6/VQs6PMJQPeTDHugG1FPw7ZZnWABaBHSJv26 L+/ndhB3Km79XQsCk2O0nwNcrhwwjLx6JVFf24etT0w0QBmLdyBkLT5UTYl8wLjY U14QwNz8H4rMtSaY2toMRNCNRIz9CnZnX24w13z687IBvwqh3p27Uv6h1MOEDxIz i4JxFhthuTB1Wu6Z4wXh8alV+G4l4Q== =leJl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_AA2C898F-9DC3-4043-9AFC-6C93BB6E8E98-- From nobody Fri Feb 26 11:40:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8806A3A15EC for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:40:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.068 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.068 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.57, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URI_NOVOWEL=0.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id seDWdiy-yob3 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9005:57f::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F8553A15ED for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050102.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050102.ppops.net-00190b01. 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(Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DnL7H6jJgzyWt; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 20:58:19 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <408715F8-0E0E-4047-B579-EC0A052F98FD@akamai.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 20:58:19 +0100 Cc: Eric Rescorla , Robert Sparks , tools-discuss , tom petch X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 636062299.417989-920eb5682543df19c3e5630694482d20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <780EF9C1-11FA-4ED2-B206-1FD82A1204CE@tzi.org> <3fee246b-7a01-7a4f-cb7a-a548f4040bd1@nostrum.com> <60392FB9.9060801@btconnect.com> <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> <408715F8-0E0E-4047-B579-EC0A052F98FD@akamai.com> To: "Salz, Rich" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:58:25 -0000 On 2021-02-26, at 20:40, Salz, Rich = wrote: >=20 > I agree it makes sense to serve the full document now, but I also = think having a link for just the =E2=80=98document status=E2=80=99 would = be useful. I don=E2=80=99t care how fast your link is, you don=E2=80=99t = want to keep refreshing some honkin=E2=80=99 long draft just to see if = the SECDIR person finished their review, especially if it=E2=80=99s your = draft. +1. There should be separate landing and status pages (and archive access = pages, for getting a verbatim copy of the submission). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Feb 26 13:07:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446993A09A8 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:07:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bangj.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id shbhreN6_eVO for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:07:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from oj.bangj.com (69-77-154-174.static.skybest.com [69.77.154.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 546A43A0990 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:07:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.10.190] (mta-107-13-246-59.nc.rr.com [107.13.246.59]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0CA5B1050E; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:07:11 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bangj.com; s=201907; t=1614373631; bh=F5Q5Rk+VIkknqyrLrHRTQxBwonzweE3iaB7OExF/RZw=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To:From; b=MQCtOle2nr2Svamtg/9do+mwsvvaNMG8SY66BjK7QbOO/KTRoMZsg3zLiJF3gZHh1 MGmmNq9lnlqqjJlyYSugT1neaDsRTTyuEfQN+km54oLf6bkHcdq0sx72u8BQ0nJ49b rwsOTxhJ/+HAzQeGNMJlMbd2ct+yaeIGI9u28v7Jm9oh25ZaFUb2MBwpOzsv7mO6KK e5A/eC4DLa7gHOyIRnBLaMqCmfHzpcnVjkbkALueN3/jXGcUSi63CSOwCgpXT+LeVH AkDGuGPtSVJhE/Sa7dHYy9Dv/m6qY4WMMjzvzq7KXEYuanGeDyY7dFE3SZ7L2ggZOs pa4I+BcPbi+tQ== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Tom Pusateri Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:07:10 -0500 Message-Id: <71BD1774-3B56-4443-AEA9-9DAA4114E7C2@bangj.com> References: Cc: "Salz, Rich" , tom petch , tools-discuss , Robert Sparks In-Reply-To: To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18D52) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 21:07:15 -0000 > On Feb 26, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2021-02-26, at 20:40, Salz, Rich wrote: >>=20 >> I agree it makes sense to serve the full document now, but I also think h= aving a link for just the =E2=80=98document status=E2=80=99 would be useful.= I don=E2=80=99t care how fast your link is, you don=E2=80=99t want to keep= refreshing some honkin=E2=80=99 long draft just to see if the SECDIR person= finished their review, especially if it=E2=80=99s your draft. >=20 > +1. >=20 > There should be separate landing and status pages (and archive access page= s, for getting a verbatim copy of the submission). >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten The number of =E2=80=9Cusers=E2=80=9D that want document meta-data << the nu= mber of =E2=80=9Cusers=E2=80=9D who want to read the document. IMO, we should work to remove the tools server duality of documents and have= an archive of documents that is served how people want to read them in a si= ngle place on the datatracker and a place for meta data WITHOUT the document= so that there is only place to read the document. 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[24.5.53.184]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r9sm12520084wmq.26.2021.02.26.16.56.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:56:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <9269183B-940D-4647-80E7-F8C0D8733BA3@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E13E3DDF-D995-4193-85C3-C1BDCDD49250"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:56:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: <57C98EF1-BA00-4503-9BC1-3B1F891A3147@att.com> Cc: Bob Hinden , tools-discuss To: "HANSEN, TONY L" References: <780EF9C1-11FA-4ED2-B206-1FD82A1204CE@tzi.org> <3fee246b-7a01-7a4f-cb7a-a548f4040bd1@nostrum.com> <60392FB9.9060801@btconnect.com> <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> <872980DC-A1CC-43DD-94D5-8CEEE2537785@vpnc.org> <57C98EF1-BA00-4503-9BC1-3B1F891A3147@att.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:56:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E13E3DDF-D995-4193-85C3-C1BDCDD49250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Feb 26, 2021, at 4:29 PM, HANSEN, TONY L wrote: >=20 > On 2/26/2021, 1:39 PM, "Bob Hinden" wrote: >=20 >> On Feb 26, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Paul Hoffman = wrote: >>=20 >> On 26 Feb 2021, at 10:04, Eric Rescorla wrote: >>=20 >>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 10:03 AM Robert Sparks = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> So, I _think_ the way the main document page behaves now was = intended to >>>> protect people on low bandwidth or expensive bandwidth connections = from >>>> very large documents. >>>>=20 >>>> Is that still something we should consider important? Or would it = be >>>> better if the main page served the whole document all the time? >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I think that's largely unnecessary at this time, especially given = that a >>> lot of people currently go to tools which serves the whole thing >>=20 >> +1 to Robert's memory, and +1 to Ekr's proposal and reasoning. >=20 > Agreed. >=20 > Bob >=20 > If you're logged in, you already have control over whether the full = document is shown be default or not. Preferences -> "Show full document = text by default?" controls that. I turned it on ages and ages ago. I didn=E2=80=99t know that was there :-( Bob >=20 > However, the default has always been Off. Perhaps the default needs to = become On? >=20 > Tony >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --Apple-Mail=_E13E3DDF-D995-4193-85C3-C1BDCDD49250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAmA5mLUACgkQrut0EXfn u6jJjgf/bjGZXUoqy+06p5FwbUQnWx5oxnIxjKRL5rsY3GbFaRfDTh1DJJ9Z/qcu Z4OF/NdKwVNZa5l7FOuTYNdoKYA1v9D1i4Vr3LoMiDcmk+/VOaQ8hVlHBC/rZZ+l bNjoHc59G+4eVB1bjYc7oTvl9UVvdeSclM0cKQGg+YeRHoN3t8X9pfbaqtPGg/7C Yc+sZedtLRqtWgrw4cME69E/VO7ZmQNt2LVGvvwqQmsE0SGIh57DI7Rf5A7IEsWY d7o9/xNMb/rrigB0In/CtHliilt4vru15gc2qfT56LcVDrYjHYBxQbX/0lDJ4TN3 kOjWuzjV04W69l0F0WnuBxDDb1y2VA== =KwXW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E13E3DDF-D995-4193-85C3-C1BDCDD49250-- From nobody Sat Feb 27 04:33:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36203A17BA for ; 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Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:33:30 +0000 To: Robert Sparks , "Salz, Rich" , tools-discuss References: <780EF9C1-11FA-4ED2-B206-1FD82A1204CE@tzi.org> <3fee246b-7a01-7a4f-cb7a-a548f4040bd1@nostrum.com> <60392FB9.9060801@btconnect.com> <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> From: tom petch Message-ID: <603A3C16.5070305@btconnect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:33:26 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 In-Reply-To: <1d0d18c2-f63d-c867-99ed-68c4ab6aa425@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [86.146.121.140] X-ClientProxiedBy: LO2P265CA0007.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:62::19) To VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:18b::8) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.65] (86.146.121.140) by LO2P265CA0007.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:62::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.20.3890.24 via Frontend Transport; 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Or would it be > better if the main page served the whole document all the time? Keep something like the current behaviour. e-mail used to be user-friendly but now I get 20Mbyte e-mails containing home-movies and I do not want them! Ever! They take time to download, blocking access, they take up space and are slow, or impossible, to process. The senders are unaware, or do not care, about the impact of what they are doing. Keep them to social media. Currently, I see plain text I-D in the hundreds of kbyte, some I seem to recall are over 500 kbyte, one I think was 2Mbyte (although that may have been a .pdf), and I expect that the maximum will go on getting larger and larger. Up to 50kbyte, perhaps 100kbyte, is ok with current technology but I think there should be a limit beyond which the user is warned about the size and should not have it just dumped on them. There may also be format issues, as when no plain text is available, which could again warrant a warning before inflicting it on the user. Tom Petch > > RjS > > On 2/26/21 11:46 AM, Salz, Rich wrote: >> Moved from rfc-interest (BCC) to tools-discuss. >> >>> My pet hate is that I have to scroll to the bottom before I can >>> tell the >> system that I want the lot. >> >> (Are hates what peeves become when fully grown? :) >> One the one hand, I get it. I find it annoying too. On the other >> hand, you're presumably already down at the bottom of the page at the >> time you see it. On the third hand, it's annoying to have to tweak the >> link if you already started sharing it. On the fourth hand, it could >> be an easy change. >> >> When would you want to get the full document? When you click on a >> document from the WG page? (e.g., >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/acme/documents/ ) From nobody Sat Feb 27 11:29:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 982273A12F0 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:29:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.57, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GAzvfYT24RXy for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9005:57f::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FD523A12ED for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 11:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050102.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050102.ppops.net-00190b01. 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 184.51.33.60) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint5 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Serving a partial documents (was Re: [rfc-i] Citing drafts) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 19:29:04 -0000 ICAgID4gSWYgeW91J3JlIGxvZ2dlZCBpbiwgeW91IGFscmVhZHkgaGF2ZSBjb250cm9sIG92ZXIg d2hldGhlciB0aGUgZnVsbCBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyBzaG93biBiZSBkZWZhdWx0IG9yIG5vdC4gUHJl ZmVyZW5jZXMgLT4gIlNob3cgZnVsbCBkb2N1bWVudCB0ZXh0IGJ5IGRlZmF1bHQ/IiBjb250cm9s cyB0aGF0LiBJIHR1cm5lZCBpdCBvbiBhZ2VzIGFuZCBhZ2VzIGFnby4NCg0KICAgIEkgZGlkbuKA mXQga25vdyB0aGF0IHdhcyB0aGVyZSA6LSgNCg0KSG9seSBjb3chDQoNCkkgc3RpbGwgdGhpbmsg YSBsaW5rIGZvciBqdXN0IHRoZSBtZXRhZGF0YSB3aWxsIGJlIHVzZWZ1bC4gDQoNCg== From nobody Sun Feb 28 13:17:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A5B3A1C90 for ; 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Sun, 28 Feb 2021 13:16:56 -0800 (PST) To: Tools Team Discussion From: Glen Organization: AMS Message-ID: <461076b7-9a12-13b0-1d3e-69d0ee84c0c8@amsl.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 13:16:55 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Zulip registration X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 21:17:01 -0000 All - It has come to my attention that there was a problem signing up for new accounts for the Zulip trial. I was able to trace that problem to a firewall configuration issue, and correct it. It is now possible sign up for new Zulip accounts again. I apologize for the confusion. Glen