From nobody Tue Jun 1 10:46:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAAE53A219D for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 10:46:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xcTug5NN3Mb8 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 10:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x131.google.com (mail-il1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 528093A219A for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 10:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x131.google.com with SMTP id x18so8200301ila.10 for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 10:46:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=yZDp1bI8t2T8EFF24ZygqUQ5ngrzBMZ1zNSgfkPU2mQ=; b=b6u0W5sVc3hWZzKIE3nqwxyCaNfKUnO/FdeDSjth9O8Ir6QEivbZIQAy2kBqRITlQZ GWReCeNGPaLxaGqLFo9tUkFSQH5WrLQu60naBj4BHLH4VCNOZSAPJdfFeci3mOiWzlsu tu0lqu85FUP+A9+7mNRUtaRgax2MVusy+lV+ZYzuduTHKPIN3FnHeFJWNMmYnP0ley+X XAXhgR4ENeCQx7E4E2HoATDPS1dmb3yeazSOo5UNTUigNDBTnaJGu7ER+ufEn49Q3onD uqs7s3p1U1rAk5XPEcXsHWtBE6OiPeNB/Av0CYTg418Aoc3U1m3kG16/ofc26tpEWYbI pVMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=yZDp1bI8t2T8EFF24ZygqUQ5ngrzBMZ1zNSgfkPU2mQ=; b=eC+a0fQCdunH2WT3iUMUhoBXVNhSj6lotqFGC8qY5J50HJrtqg4SJGqf+Y1BJ/SpaW pxbA7CwBhJ2GSEwJG6TfvJbtO/e/7XaPFr+4+xR9v8okFa3RgkI1yc1S9hBS9WTOIqBH vQ5xqbrfTUERHDOp7gCBT03UNaA6pXTr71qGVrw/ZEFitENqQvCo4LqHZH1SC6PcNeCI 08W+EVz+j4NQCXvcUgul2Ic6JZ1Co5H89UlMW9xHHAz6JgEpWHpw28xOLa/Lt9XJ1TUh sFukLPYTk54grioCb9ffjqIBDjfn60RlPITo0SdJluZidbWzZjH63VeQjG7ZZuMkveFW sIxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531S+jwnr6GHmwnQEe54TU92rudRfYdpaZyMU5QE7SaoV24bLTSh r7HNPIWzX/Ho1IftRKWwyuSxfmcse5YgImzviK16V+EKzhY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzfbyyJSeZTIGKK9pOGbG0N7SqhQE3GRL12SWPPTvYAvgyJHx8HuZZ8TZzob3Dk5t3ka8Oh00hQTXBwBqgLYkc= X-Received: by 2002:a92:d082:: with SMTP id h2mr8947765ilh.83.1622569606416; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 10:46:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 13:46:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 17:46:53 -0000 Hi, Some change seems to have been made to stop people from saving Diffs from the Rfcdiff Web Service, https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff. A very common scenario for me is that I am the pen holder on a draft so I edit my source and produce a candidate new text file. I then want to send it to co-authors or maybe a WG chair or whoever AND I would like to send along a Diff from the currently posted. It used to work just fine to use the Rfcdiff Tool to create a two column web page with nice color coded differences that I could save as an html file and ship along with the candidate new text file. Admittedly, recipients could save the text attachment to my email and do the diff themselves but I want to make it as easy as possible for them to see what's going on so they can send me comments or an OK. Now, if I do a save-as in Chrome while looking at the nice two column color coded diff, it saves some html which just gets you back to the Rfcdiff tool :-( And if I print the web page to PDF, all the color coding goes way :-( Can this be fixed so there is some way to produce a file to share the Rfcdiff output? Note: my candidate new text file is not web accessible so I can't just send them a URL to do the diff... Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com From nobody Tue Jun 1 10:53:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71EC13A21C6 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 10:53:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.698, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uOlXsXa7cpHE for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 10:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC0FA3A21C3 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 10:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050095.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050095.ppops.net-00190b01. 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CjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3VybGRlZmVuc2Uu Y29tL3YzL19faHR0cHM6L2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9odG1sL3JmYzcyOTYqYXBw ZW5kaXgtQV9fO0l3ISFHanZUel92ayFBWjdEMjV1am13TlM0VkJGS016LTVRUWdRZEJFTC1oMFRV S3JWam55UVhldENXVUdqOFR6anRpQTVPR2wkIj5odHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3Jn L2RvYy9odG1sL3JmYzcyOTYjYXBwZW5kaXgtQTwvYT4mbmJzcDs8Yj4ob2spPC9iPjxvOnA+PC9v OnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_960ABF7AA7964AF6A2D171A1AD6B78CEakamaicom_-- From nobody Tue Jun 1 11:20:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB5F3A228C for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 11:20:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rRYpT-zFKHAK for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 11:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 649313A228A for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 11:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FvgS01Pf6z316J; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 20:20:00 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 20:19:59 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 644264399.7698441-304f8f3949b604340d98874a15f9238d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> References: To: Donald Eastlake X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 18:20:08 -0000 Weird, this form used to do a GET, which led to a reusable URL in the = browser address line (see the bottom half of the page for how that is = used). (You can still have that after using this useful little bookmark on this = form, which I have stored as =E2=80=9Cfrmget=E2=80=9D: = javascript:(function()%7Bvar%20x,i;%20x%20=3D%20document.forms;%20for%20(i= %20=3D%200;%20i%20%3C%20x.length;%20++i)%20x%5Bi%5D.method=3D%22get%22;%20= alert(%22Changed%20%22%20+%20x.length%20+%20%22%20forms%20to%20use%20the%2= 0GET%20method.%20%20After%20submitting%20a%20form%20from%20this%20page,%20= you%20should%20be%20able%20to%20bookmark%20the%20result.%22);%20%7D)(); .) The form page now uses POST, which doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to me. I can still save the resulting page and look at it in its full glory = (both in Chrome and Safari, but of course the formats are different), so = I cannot reproduce that part of the report. But I want my GET back! (Without needing to use the frmget hack, please.) By the way, the rfcdiff is 1.48, only the form page seems to have a = separate version number. (Brew=E2=80=99s rfcdiff is still 1.46, which I have pinned now...) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On 2021-06-01, at 19:46, Donald Eastlake wrote: >=20 > Some change seems to have been made to stop people from saving Diffs > from the Rfcdiff Web Service, https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff. >=20 From nobody Tue Jun 1 11:29:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36C73A22DD for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 11:29:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sXo5DAwSfuNu for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 11:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3666E3A22DB for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 11:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FvgfJ4spdz316J; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 20:28:56 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <960ABF7A-A796-4AF6-A2D1-71A1AD6B78CE@akamai.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 20:28:56 +0200 Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "msp@ncp-e.com" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 644264936.2898231-e27f1f040f18b8f563960278712ef418 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6EB32169-C7FC-43E4-80DF-9C9AC2DF7FF6@tzi.org> References: <4FAFFFFA-0BBE-4A2C-8805-0E73CE5BE304@t-online.de> <960ABF7A-A796-4AF6-A2D1-71A1AD6B78CE@akamai.com> To: "Salz, Rich" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC 4301 - TOC links to appendices not working X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 18:29:13 -0000 On 2021-06-01, at 19:52, Salz, Rich = wrote: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4301#appendix-B (not ok) I=E2=80=99d guess the main appendix headings of 4301 don=E2=80=99t have = the period/double-space that the htmlizer needs to recognize a heading. = My AUTH48 spies tell me there was some tinkering with that heading by = the RFC editor, but that didn=E2=80=99t quite manage to hit the standard = form. I think this is going to be a solid WONTFIX... Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 1 12:23:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D833A2457 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 12:22:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.079 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.079 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gPx9bqffYQvj for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 12:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E79D33A2456 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 12:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.9.176]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 151JMnq0076720 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:22:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1622575370; bh=IS30/32bOp843apO4ZAJlB3Q3yu37OdQ6fFPLdV92mU=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=IYvTNtpvaZ9ZfSsMioLcg7YovBSxFxtfnGmjaPYz2rSWoEk3IqUPp2/8JCeflROCb kUk/N1JLWJ42jbDMK5OmucU5XWyzLewEX92bvFXvS5axsmhcz/WDt+jOj15yWH/gVg r2bsI2HB+V2M294ZXcpBTaQW1yTGqrn3LzDxa864= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.9.176] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:22:44 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 19:22:58 -0000 What do you see at https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff? (That's the webservice that will have support going forward - the page at tools.ietf.org will likely start redirecting soon). RjS On 6/1/21 1:19 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Weird, this form used to do a GET, which led to a reusable URL in the browser address line (see the bottom half of the page for how that is used). > > (You can still have that after using this useful little bookmark on this form, which I have stored as “frmget”: > > javascript:(function()%7Bvar%20x,i;%20x%20=%20document.forms;%20for%20(i%20=%200;%20i%20%3C%20x.length;%20++i)%20x%5Bi%5D.method=%22get%22;%20alert(%22Changed%20%22%20+%20x.length%20+%20%22%20forms%20to%20use%20the%20GET%20method.%20%20After%20submitting%20a%20form%20from%20this%20page,%20you%20should%20be%20able%20to%20bookmark%20the%20result.%22);%20%7D)(); > > .) > > The form page now uses POST, which doesn’t make sense to me. > > I can still save the resulting page and look at it in its full glory (both in Chrome and Safari, but of course the formats are different), so I cannot reproduce that part of the report. > > But I want my GET back! > (Without needing to use the frmget hack, please.) > > By the way, the rfcdiff is 1.48, only the form page seems to have a separate version number. > (Brew’s rfcdiff is still 1.46, which I have pinned now...) > > Grüße, Carsten > > >> On 2021-06-01, at 19:46, Donald Eastlake wrote: >> >> Some change seems to have been made to stop people from saving Diffs >> from the Rfcdiff Web Service, https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff. >> > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Tue Jun 1 12:27:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10FF3A247B for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 12:27:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OTb_A45SGBQT; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CC1203A2472; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 12:27:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ADB39FF1-AE89-48C0-9F58-38A338338C8A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 07:26:59 +1200 In-Reply-To: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> Cc: Donald Eastlake , tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Carsten Bormann References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 19:27:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ADB39FF1-AE89-48C0-9F58-38A338338C8A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 2/06/2021, at 6:19 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Weird, this form used to do a GET, which led to a reusable URL in the = browser address line (see the bottom half of the page for how that is = used). >=20 > (You can still have that after using this useful little bookmark on = this form, which I have stored as =E2=80=9Cfrmget=E2=80=9D: >=20 > = javascript:(function()%7Bvar%20x,i;%20x%20=3D%20document.forms;%20for%20(i= %20=3D%200;%20i%20%3C%20x.length;%20++i)%20x%5Bi%5D.method=3D%22get%22;%20= alert(%22Changed%20%22%20+%20x.length%20+%20%22%20forms%20to%20use%20the%2= 0GET%20method.%20%20After%20submitting%20a%20form%20from%20this%20page,%20= you%20should%20be%20able%20to%20bookmark%20the%20result.%22);%20%7D)(); >=20 > .) >=20 > The form page now uses POST, which doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to me. >=20 > I can still save the resulting page and look at it in its full glory = (both in Chrome and Safari, but of course the formats are different), so = I cannot reproduce that part of the report. >=20 > But I want my GET back! > (Without needing to use the frmget hack, please.) So that I=E2=80=99m clear - do you want to bookmark the GET in order to = repeat the same diff? In other words, if the result was stored = indefinitely and a bookmarkable URL returned then would that be = sufficient for you? (not designing things here, just trying to = understand the use case). Jay >=20 > By the way, the rfcdiff is 1.48, only the form page seems to have a = separate version number. > (Brew=E2=80=99s rfcdiff is still 1.46, which I have pinned now...) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 >=20 >> On 2021-06-01, at 19:46, Donald Eastlake wrote: >>=20 >> Some change seems to have been made to stop people from saving Diffs >> from the Rfcdiff Web Service, https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff. >>=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_ADB39FF1-AE89-48C0-9F58-38A338338C8A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 2/06/2021, at 6:19 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> = wrote:

Weird, this form used to do a GET, which led to a reusable = URL in the browser address line (see the bottom half of the page for how = that is used).

(You can still have that = after using this useful little bookmark on this form, which I have = stored as =E2=80=9Cfrmget=E2=80=9D:

javascript:(function()%7Bvar%20x,i;%20x%20=3D%20document.forms;= %20for%20(i%20=3D%200;%20i%20%3C%20x.length;%20++i)%20x%5Bi%5D.method=3D%2= 2get%22;%20alert(%22Changed%20%22%20+%20x.length%20+%20%22%20forms%20to%20= use%20the%20GET%20method.%20%20After%20submitting%20a%20form%20from%20this= %20page,%20you%20should%20be%20able%20to%20bookmark%20the%20result.%22);%2= 0%7D)();

.)

The = form page now uses POST, which doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to me.

I can still save the resulting page and look = at it in its full glory (both in Chrome and Safari, but of course the = formats are different), so I cannot reproduce that part of the = report.

But I want my GET back!
(Without needing to use the frmget hack, please.)

So = that I=E2=80=99m clear - do you want to bookmark the GET in order to = repeat the same diff?  In other words, if the result was stored = indefinitely and a bookmarkable URL returned then would that be = sufficient for you?  (not designing things here, just trying to = understand the use case).

Jay

By the way, the rfcdiff is 1.48, only the form = page seems to have a separate version number.
(Brew=E2=80=99= s rfcdiff is still 1.46, which I have pinned now...)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


On 2021-06-01, at 19:46, = Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:

Some change seems to have been made to stop people from = saving Diffs
from the Rfcdiff Web Service, https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff.


___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for = discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* = Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other = bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including = how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_ADB39FF1-AE89-48C0-9F58-38A338338C8A-- From nobody Tue Jun 1 14:01:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938263A274E for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:01:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BvVGEcw-SWR6 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x129.google.com (mail-il1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E06193A274D for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x129.google.com with SMTP id x18so24267ila.10 for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 14:01:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+nT+jBPrB6C2/1o53rj4GAWsEt7NOWwT4EwVNf966eY=; b=a2pmOKPj7tE+7r4d1u5UfwdzOb4snuwuTToQchVHwtPKqNvVKR1apnntd480S6ODij hlz7kBsPt0P3cV/1Aip4GtshnmWD0CTqJx5Zh8oeAEUvP9FL3w6ze985vz1W9WN4LCN1 E761aInAiQIJkoaectY9ydkQJ4o/CrPxIwsUi/d1HseoeM6qQr7Lx4wJ/t+yP381PfkC bdVKoWffpzr61Vdgf2IEsIUocI/6cfC6o2A1AC5AMhQ6J3TLAlg6C6y59Ff+5bBkMcjd nBsfgHEVfpKuFJP6CovdJcWA4pVDUEpsUmNAYfpvztA0+J+HrBBCEVl3lOkaFrhq+286 R2pA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+nT+jBPrB6C2/1o53rj4GAWsEt7NOWwT4EwVNf966eY=; b=ESRZpjtx+tt9/GefWTPb3dhHbkFK6DuP082UH1QvSUYSnR75rJ71AFGBRkQxlIw8u5 Tm7dUOQhFrSrxQkOIZXzDDDUgXXFD4IK86C3F6NN68fivfQHBSujKLl4RdlxCYvFRyNp 4b2vTaB0UdWWVohLpK+tAT9NiMpvuwFUcilSqObBWAZK9DRxLB5Fkwvd+RWi+iGFuwYi 6e7VZV1sztBxwyV6zZeCoEFU60dl9sO/ThDGForUxUnDnLy9TPZUXs6/jreb5zF358Vx kfum6J3kOHeRKxQJd2Q7bnvSpVNrJ90YvJ99plBxVtBpE+7Ffhwq6fWNjFbAoa7Jyy53 lfiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5313BncwwF8XXxhKHAhJILgWaUmi1S+ybO1KWL1SWG+zZ+lg9Rft oqUkwylqaNAFWl8D5XQbjYfnFysT5dUY4eiWKg+trptR2Ac= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwR+HWtDm+aVNc+IpZkdCv/dy5u8j0yXsPwNtI+E1dThEgGCSOzU/fs03k9U/h3cskDa9t9ZB4B1282nT67pSE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:13d3:: with SMTP id v19mr23614390ilj.168.1622581301819; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 14:01:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 17:01:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 21:01:48 -0000 If I do an Html wdiff and then a save-as, I get a .mht file which may be adequate for my purposes. However, poking around further, when I do a side-by-side Diff and save-as in Chrome, there actually an option of one of three types of Formats: "Webpage, HTML only" "Webpage, Single File" and "Webpage, Complete" The last of these produces a .html file that seems to do what I want! The middle option produces a .mht file that gets an error if I try to open it in Chrome. The first one produces a .html file that just takes you to the Rfcdiff page in some odd mode. The problems I was experiencing before were with the first choice of Format "Webpage, HTML only"... Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 2:20 PM Carsten Bormann wrote: > > Weird, this form used to do a GET, which led to a reusable URL in the bro= wser address line (see the bottom half of the page for how that is used). > > (You can still have that after using this useful little bookmark on this = form, which I have stored as =E2=80=9Cfrmget=E2=80=9D: > > javascript:(function()%7Bvar%20x,i;%20x%20=3D%20document.forms;%20for%20(= i%20=3D%200;%20i%20%3C%20x.length;%20++i)%20x%5Bi%5D.method=3D%22get%22;%20= alert(%22Changed%20%22%20+%20x.length%20+%20%22%20forms%20to%20use%20the%20= GET%20method.%20%20After%20submitting%20a%20form%20from%20this%20page,%20yo= u%20should%20be%20able%20to%20bookmark%20the%20result.%22);%20%7D)(); > > .) > > The form page now uses POST, which doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to me. > > I can still save the resulting page and look at it in its full glory (bot= h in Chrome and Safari, but of course the formats are different), so I cann= ot reproduce that part of the report. > > But I want my GET back! > (Without needing to use the frmget hack, please.) > > By the way, the rfcdiff is 1.48, only the form page seems to have a separ= ate version number. > (Brew=E2=80=99s rfcdiff is still 1.46, which I have pinned now...) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > > > On 2021-06-01, at 19:46, Donald Eastlake wrote: > > > > Some change seems to have been made to stop people from saving Diffs > > from the Rfcdiff Web Service, https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff. > > > From nobody Tue Jun 1 14:33:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5213A2825 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZtSFWVyImoSA for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39D1E3A281F for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id g18so552339pfr.2 for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 14:33:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zK5+L+0XnLRelFhyA+FvOwvyIHMxj5Vz7OEjLEDYhBQ=; b=e8armqAFViMz+KM3BO5YsQJAW6jABVe+IyrBTuWBIMOjxW2i/Z7e79Z4NWIgr+mBrs 5nKA+RRjsbss6ay05HpkSPCnPPbcAHTGV0qIXoeQ5L6edVB7e28lFHOAH2YrKdHM9dHX dxDHo5o2KXZSp+P7L0CYXEkCBbltOBdKglivY8cDm8bwhLzSDlWmmRJ/6rZraChCcl0y ggQgB5yc9ZXLhfpqCHT37KbPe1jbcXVB7/GmRmxXw7JUFyQ8exDKcrJ4ev60qXRvIAsB ykMHjBlMV2O447UnlQ1a/IqWTXKsRje4Dr4p9Ne1rgpwQ2A2lX6JO+8aDVBGvVgX3r6J 5wBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=zK5+L+0XnLRelFhyA+FvOwvyIHMxj5Vz7OEjLEDYhBQ=; b=gZM5olLPMZayxtWlFyCjEW1vuBEtKaPf4r1/lmfYTbBQj33yhMrPxUorpqW/QADUzI JBHKxTq1PRw3a7oY/bbLuvWoSVCKvIVRp7c9rukwXzWV7sZopRhpsWZuq9YU5ePuIDEZ T3cTumzZRwBSV/+Ml8nX+Rxvg/+uubCzkgtpvq2aZwuZqssOhvaI0X6/S+S9j9JeNiuW lh0bCJ3l0+Ui7ugdiJ9REeVfIJhFBQm8ObLdK+1w/SRXsckrdFM0xIOww97hMwwflg30 P4N9TpB61cMrHXWqteTE8WRA7CUPUGU9JBAbUflXg7V/Gwm7g1iI3NraFp41pUalStj6 3teA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533R6H0jWtjT0RhwqJ8rALgiQf504tyqxEy6RaA598mb8Y2Ecr1A VE4Jq61h9ZWUgLpxF/tq4y/9UpHIJdhU/w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNRpeTHDdb97Vm8aippfAsDTweqndSngoV0ynNFCiIdi+A5ccj/bEhjUjvQMBvLImj3SS+hQ== X-Received: by 2002:a65:4d44:: with SMTP id j4mr29956524pgt.275.1622583217770; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 14:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k21sm15191738pgb.56.2021.06.01.14.33.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Jun 2021 14:33:37 -0700 (PDT) To: Robert Sparks , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <3f0522f4-3ff3-6182-9b56-3cb694c02f80@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 09:33:32 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 21:33:44 -0000 Robert, The behaviour of https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff definitely seems to have = changed recently. For whatever reason, to save the actual html file of th= e side-by-side diffs, you now need to select the "Web page, complete" opt= ion in Firefox, which was unnecessary before. No problem once you know. A= s Donald says, saving this format can be very useful when working with co= -authors. I couldn't actually tell whether www.ietf.org/rfcdiff has changed. My bro= wser seems to have decided that I want the "Web page, complete" option by=20 default now ;-). Regards Brian On 02-Jun-21 07:22, Robert Sparks wrote: > What do you see at https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff? >=20 > (That's the webservice that will have support going forward - the page = > at tools.ietf.org will likely start redirecting soon). >=20 > RjS >=20 > On 6/1/21 1:19 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> Weird, this form used to do a GET, which led to a reusable URL in the = browser address line (see the bottom half of the page for how that is use= d). >> >> (You can still have that after using this useful little bookmark on th= is form, which I have stored as =E2=80=9Cfrmget=E2=80=9D: >> >> javascript:(function()%7Bvar%20x,i;%20x%20=3D%20document.forms;%20for%= 20(i%20=3D%200;%20i%20%3C%20x.length;%20++i)%20x%5Bi%5D.method=3D%22get%2= 2;%20alert(%22Changed%20%22%20+%20x.length%20+%20%22%20forms%20to%20use%2= 0the%20GET%20method.%20%20After%20submitting%20a%20form%20from%20this%20p= age,%20you%20should%20be%20able%20to%20bookmark%20the%20result.%22);%20%7= D)(); >> >> .) >> >> The form page now uses POST, which doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to me. >> >> I can still save the resulting page and look at it in its full glory (= both in Chrome and Safari, but of course the formats are different), so I=20 cannot reproduce that part of the report. >> >> But I want my GET back! >> (Without needing to use the frmget hack, please.) >> >> By the way, the rfcdiff is 1.48, only the form page seems to have a se= parate version number. >> (Brew=E2=80=99s rfcdiff is still 1.46, which I have pinned now...) >> >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> >> >>> On 2021-06-01, at 19:46, Donald Eastlake wrote: >>> >>> Some change seems to have been made to stop people from saving Diffs >>> from the Rfcdiff Web Service, https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff. >>> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf= =2Eorg >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.= org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 From nobody Tue Jun 1 14:59:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A4A3A28EC; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:59:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HQtmKFhfsfsB; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CC7A3A28E8; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FvmJw6TXhz316D; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 23:59:12 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 23:59:12 +0200 Cc: Donald Eastlake , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 644277552.5893199-157d5a7bf4f438dcd9b06c6226b53c13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> To: Jay Daley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 21:59:20 -0000 On 2021-06-01, at 21:26, Jay Daley wrote: >=20 > So that I=E2=80=99m clear - do you want to bookmark the GET in order = to repeat the same diff? In other words, if the result was stored = indefinitely and a bookmarkable URL returned then would that be = sufficient for you? (not designing things here, just trying to = understand the use case). Not quite, because the file at one of the URLs might change. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 1 15:02:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BE73A2934; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:01:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hHuSRUNG6Xuv; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE17B3A292E; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FvmMq389zz316D; Wed, 2 Jun 2021 00:01:43 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 00:01:43 +0200 Cc: Donald Eastlake , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 644277703.229628-6e32b3a8f299009d56d5f753c2203de8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6F6F2548-F77B-4018-9C3E-E6B34B2F8C53@tzi.org> References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> To: Jay Daley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 22:02:01 -0000 On 2021-06-01, at 23:59, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Not quite, because the file at one of the URLs might change. =E2=80=A6 as in = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-asdf-sdf-05.txt&url2=3Dht= tps://raw.githack.com/ietf-wg-asdf/SDF/master/sdf.txt Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 1 15:04:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698833A290C; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:04:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1pcg9ymuYgxg; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C5B83A290B; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FvmQL0fHQz316D; Wed, 2 Jun 2021 00:03:54 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <6F6F2548-F77B-4018-9C3E-E6B34B2F8C53@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 00:03:53 +0200 Cc: Donald Eastlake , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 644277833.867063-b14fb66ad2ce6b9b9862b3fbe9fb48f0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <57167EEC-CBAC-4369-9E18-8492CF0FF6DA@tzi.org> References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> <6F6F2548-F77B-4018-9C3E-E6B34B2F8C53@tzi.org> To: Jay Daley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 22:04:01 -0000 On 2021-06-02, at 00:01, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 >=20 > = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-asdf-sdf-05.txt&url2=3Dht= tps://raw.githack.com/ietf-wg-asdf/SDF/master/sdf.txt =E2=80=A6 and that is even true for local files, e.g. = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-asdf-sdf&url2=3Dhttps://r= aw.githack.com/ietf-wg-asdf/SDF/master/sdf.txt (Note that there is no version number on url1, so it is the most recent = one.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 1 15:34:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B56AA3A29F4 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:34:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7keCCGBE9klm; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0E7403A29F3; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:34:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: <3F23A213-36C2-4EC7-B2DF-8CBA690E0438@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CE40C827-A67F-40FC-AF68-B07EF997CE72" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 10:34:05 +1200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Donald Eastlake , tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Carsten Bormann References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 22:34:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CE40C827-A67F-40FC-AF68-B07EF997CE72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 2/06/2021, at 9:59 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On 2021-06-01, at 21:26, Jay Daley wrote: >>=20 >> So that I=E2=80=99m clear - do you want to bookmark the GET in order = to repeat the same diff? In other words, if the result was stored = indefinitely and a bookmarkable URL returned then would that be = sufficient for you? (not designing things here, just trying to = understand the use case). >=20 > Not quite, because the file at one of the URLs might change. I see. Some more questions: - I=E2=80=99m guessing, though I don=E2=80=99t know, that the reason for = a POST is so that a local file can be provided in the form body, which a = GET cannot do. Is that a use case you use? Of course it could switch = from a GET to a POST in that situation but I don=E2=80=99t know what the = impact of that is. - Would a bookmarkable stored result with a 'refresh' button do the same = thing? - Is this just a time saver or is there another reason not to use the = web form each time? I ask because there are time saving techniques that = can be adopted on web forms - 'recent diffs', 'favourites' etc. Jay >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_CE40C827-A67F-40FC-AF68-B07EF997CE72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 2/06/2021, at 9:59 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> = wrote:

On 2021-06-01, at 21:26, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:

So that = I=E2=80=99m clear - do you want to bookmark the GET in order to repeat = the same diff?  In other words, if the result was stored = indefinitely and a bookmarkable URL returned then would that be = sufficient for you?  (not designing things here, just trying to = understand the use case).

Not = quite, because the file at one of the URLs might change.

I = see.  Some more questions:

- = I=E2=80=99m guessing, though I don=E2=80=99t know, that the reason for a = POST is so that a local file can be provided in the form body, which a = GET cannot do.  Is that a use case you use? Of course it could = switch from a GET to a POST in that situation but I don=E2=80=99t know = what the impact of that is.

- Would a = bookmarkable stored result with a 'refresh' button do the same thing?

- Is this just a time saver or = is there another reason not to use the web form each time?  I ask = because there are time saving techniques that can be adopted on web = forms - 'recent diffs', 'favourites' etc.

Jay


Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe,= Carsten


-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_CE40C827-A67F-40FC-AF68-B07EF997CE72-- From nobody Tue Jun 1 15:54:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FE03A2A78; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:54:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jnHMMLr-aP3M; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDBE43A2A7E; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 15:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FvnX809S1z316C; Wed, 2 Jun 2021 00:53:59 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2407033D-B007-43F7-8401-8FB67CEB87EC" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <3F23A213-36C2-4EC7-B2DF-8CBA690E0438@ietf.org> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 00:53:59 +0200 Cc: Donald Eastlake , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-Id: <275D7CF9-5569-465D-9652-F24D9A63621E@tzi.org> References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> <3F23A213-36C2-4EC7-B2DF-8CBA690E0438@ietf.org> To: Jay Daley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 22:54:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2407033D-B007-43F7-8401-8FB67CEB87EC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 2. Jun 2021, at 00:34, Jay Daley wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 2/06/2021, at 9:59 AM, Carsten Bormann > wrote: >>=20 >> On 2021-06-01, at 21:26, Jay Daley > wrote: >>>=20 >>> So that I=E2=80=99m clear - do you want to bookmark the GET in order = to repeat the same diff? In other words, if the result was stored = indefinitely and a bookmarkable URL returned then would that be = sufficient for you? (not designing things here, just trying to = understand the use case). >>=20 >> Not quite, because the file at one of the URLs might change. >=20 > I see. Some more questions: >=20 > - I=E2=80=99m guessing, though I don=E2=80=99t know, that the reason = for a POST is so that a local file can be provided in the form body, = which a GET cannot do. Is that a use case you use? I don=E2=80=99t (I have local copies of all IETF documents + a local = installation of rfcdiff). I use the web page: =E2=80=94 when I get a new draft mail =E2=80=94 there is a convenient = diff link in there, and I=E2=80=99d need to rsync first otherwise (*). =E2=80=94 to send the URL to other people (via mail, via GitHub = README.md, telegram, =E2=80=A6). > Of course it could switch from a GET to a POST in that situation but I = don=E2=80=99t know what the impact of that is. >=20 > - Would a bookmarkable stored result with a 'refresh' button do the = same thing? I=E2=80=99d need these other people to press the refresh button. > - Is this just a time saver or is there another reason not to use the = web form each time? =20 See above. > I ask because there are time saving techniques that can be adopted on = web forms - 'recent diffs', 'favourites' etc. I have no control over other people=E2=80=99s favorites=E2=80=A6 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) which can be slow, because the RFC editor tends to update files that = didn=E2=80=99t change, so rsync needs to check all these files each = time. I don=E2=80=99t know who I need to talk to about how to update a file = offered for rsync (i.e., don=E2=80=99t, unless it changed). --Apple-Mail=_2407033D-B007-43F7-8401-8FB67CEB87EC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = 2. Jun 2021, at 00:34, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:



On 2/06/2021, at 9:59 AM, Carsten Bormann = <cabo@tzi.org> = wrote:

On 2021-06-01, at 21:26, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:

So that = I=E2=80=99m clear - do you want to bookmark the GET in order to repeat = the same diff?  In other words, if the result was stored = indefinitely and a bookmarkable URL returned then would that be = sufficient for you?  (not designing things here, just trying to = understand the use case).

Not = quite, because the file at one of the URLs might change.

I see.  Some more = questions:

- = I=E2=80=99m guessing, though I don=E2=80=99t know, that the reason for a = POST is so that a local file can be provided in the form body, which a = GET cannot do.  Is that a use case you use? =

I = don=E2=80=99t (I have local copies of all IETF documents + a local = installation of rfcdiff).

I use the = web page:

=E2=80=94 when I get a new = draft mail =E2=80=94 there is a convenient diff link in there, and I=E2=80= =99d need to rsync first otherwise (*).
=E2=80=94 to send the = URL to other people (via mail, via GitHub README.md, telegram, = =E2=80=A6).

Of course it could switch from a GET to a POST in that = situation but I don=E2=80=99t know what the impact of that is.

- Would a bookmarkable stored result = with a 'refresh' button do the same thing?

I=E2=80= =99d need these other people to press the refresh button.

- Is this = just a time saver or is there another reason not to use the web form = each time?  

See above.

I ask because there are time = saving techniques that can be adopted on web forms - 'recent diffs', = 'favourites' etc.

I have no control over other people=E2=80=99s = favorites=E2=80=A6

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9F= e, Carsten

(*) which can = be slow, because the RFC editor tends to update files that didn=E2=80=99t = change, so rsync needs to check all these files each time.
I don=E2=80=99t know who I need to talk to about how to = update a file offered for rsync (i.e., don=E2=80=99t, unless it = changed).

= --Apple-Mail=_2407033D-B007-43F7-8401-8FB67CEB87EC-- From nobody Tue Jun 1 16:17:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3273A0DD9 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 16:17:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLFy4fZpEZQZ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 16:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5DDD93A2B2E; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 16:16:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FA34BDEB-84F9-4AB2-9DE9-9D5042E89761" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 11:16:52 +1200 In-Reply-To: <275D7CF9-5569-465D-9652-F24D9A63621E@tzi.org> Cc: Tools Discussion To: Carsten Bormann References: <10C19260-EBAF-41EC-B4FE-BBF23919D84D@tzi.org> <3F23A213-36C2-4EC7-B2DF-8CBA690E0438@ietf.org> <275D7CF9-5569-465D-9652-F24D9A63621E@tzi.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcdiff v 0.12 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 23:17:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FA34BDEB-84F9-4AB2-9DE9-9D5042E89761 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 2/06/2021, at 10:53 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On 2. Jun 2021, at 00:34, Jay Daley > wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 2/06/2021, at 9:59 AM, Carsten Bormann > wrote: >>>=20 >>> On 2021-06-01, at 21:26, Jay Daley > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> So that I=E2=80=99m clear - do you want to bookmark the GET in = order to repeat the same diff? In other words, if the result was stored = indefinitely and a bookmarkable URL returned then would that be = sufficient for you? (not designing things here, just trying to = understand the use case). >>>=20 >>> Not quite, because the file at one of the URLs might change. >>=20 >> I see. Some more questions: >>=20 >> - I=E2=80=99m guessing, though I don=E2=80=99t know, that the reason = for a POST is so that a local file can be provided in the form body, = which a GET cannot do. Is that a use case you use?=20 >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t (I have local copies of all IETF documents + a local = installation of rfcdiff). >=20 > I use the web page: >=20 > =E2=80=94 when I get a new draft mail =E2=80=94 there is a convenient = diff link in there, and I=E2=80=99d need to rsync first otherwise (*). > =E2=80=94 to send the URL to other people (via mail, via GitHub = README.md, telegram, =E2=80=A6). >=20 >> Of course it could switch from a GET to a POST in that situation but = I don=E2=80=99t know what the impact of that is. >>=20 >> - Would a bookmarkable stored result with a 'refresh' button do the = same thing? >=20 > I=E2=80=99d need these other people to press the refresh button. >=20 >> - Is this just a time saver or is there another reason not to use the = web form each time? =20 >=20 > See above. >=20 >> I ask because there are time saving techniques that can be adopted on = web forms - 'recent diffs', 'favourites' etc. >=20 > I have no control over other people=E2=80=99s favorites=E2=80=A6 Got it - thank you. So 1. If this functionality was only for files accessible over the web = then a GET could be used each time. 2. If a local file needs to be uploaded then that has to use a POST to = send it. It could possibly redirect to a GET using a stored copy of the = uploaded file to provide this functionality 3. Any storing/caching of the output would probably complicate matters = considerably as we then need to take into account versioning, change = detection and so on. Sound about right? Jay >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > (*) which can be slow, because the RFC editor tends to update files = that didn=E2=80=99t change, so rsync needs to check all these files each = time. > I don=E2=80=99t know who I need to talk to about how to update a file = offered for rsync (i.e., don=E2=80=99t, unless it changed). --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_FA34BDEB-84F9-4AB2-9DE9-9D5042E89761 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 2/06/2021, at 10:53 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> = wrote:

On 2. Jun 2021, at 00:34, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:



On = 2/06/2021, at 9:59 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

On = 2021-06-01, at 21:26, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:

So that I=E2=80=99m clear - do = you want to bookmark the GET in order to repeat the same diff?  In = other words, if the result was stored indefinitely and a bookmarkable = URL returned then would that be sufficient for you?  (not designing = things here, just trying to understand the use case).

Not quite, because the file at = one of the URLs might change.

I see.  Some more = questions:

- = I=E2=80=99m guessing, though I don=E2=80=99t know, that the reason for a = POST is so that a local file can be provided in the form body, which a = GET cannot do.  Is that a use case you use? 

I don=E2=80=99= t (I have local copies of all IETF documents + a local installation of = rfcdiff).

I = use the web page:

=E2=80=94 when I get a new draft mail =E2=80=94 there is a = convenient diff link in there, and I=E2=80=99d need to rsync first = otherwise (*).
=E2=80=94 to send the URL to other = people (via mail, via GitHub README.md, telegram, =E2=80=A6).

Of = course it could switch from a GET to a POST in that situation but I = don=E2=80=99t know what the impact of that is.

- Would a bookmarkable stored result with a 'refresh' = button do the same thing?

I=E2=80=99d need these other people to press the = refresh button.

- Is this just a = time saver or is there another reason not to use the web form each time? =  

See above.

I ask = because there are time saving techniques that can be adopted on web = forms - 'recent diffs', 'favourites' = etc.

I = have no control over other people=E2=80=99s = favorites=E2=80=A6

Got it - thank you. So

1.  If this functionality was only for files = accessible over the web then a GET could be used each = time.

2.  If a local file needs = to be uploaded then that has to use a POST to send it.  It could = possibly redirect to a GET using a stored copy of the uploaded file to = provide this functionality

3. =  Any storing/caching of the output would probably complicate = matters considerably as we then need to take into account versioning, = change detection and so on.

Sound = about right?

Jay

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

(*) which can be slow, because the RFC editor tends to update = files that didn=E2=80=99t change, so rsync needs to check all these = files each time.
I don=E2=80=99t know who I need to talk to about = how to update a file offered for rsync (i.e., don=E2=80=99t, unless it = changed).

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_FA34BDEB-84F9-4AB2-9DE9-9D5042E89761-- From nobody Sat Jun 5 08:57:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12B43A26F3; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 08:57:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hrPwiMG_Cwlz; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 08:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from albireo.enyo.de (albireo.enyo.de [37.24.231.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E0003A1649; Sat, 5 Jun 2021 08:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.17.203.2] (port=37003 helo=deneb.enyo.de) by albireo.enyo.de ([172.17.140.2]) with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1lpYfm-0008Hv-07; Sat, 05 Jun 2021 15:57:18 +0000 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lpYfl-0006PW-Ta; Sat, 05 Jun 2021 17:57:17 +0200 From: Florian Weimer To: Robert Sparks Cc: ietf@ietf.org, tools-discuss References: Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 17:57:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Sparks's message of "Tue, 9 Mar 2021 12:16:01 -0600") Message-ID: <87im2s9uea.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Clarifying the state of and the transition plan for tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 15:57:27 -0000 * Robert Sparks: > As you identify issues with tools.ietf.org, please email Henrik or > let me know, and I will bring them to Henrik's attention.=A0 In > general, neither the IETF Secretariat nor the tools team can address > issues at tools.ietf.org directly. Our focus will be on moving > functionality to platforms like the Datatracker. The old redirector accepted URLs without an RFC prefix (e.g., ). The new service apparently does not. From nobody Mon Jun 7 21:05:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D2B3A1F88; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 21:04:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.079 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.079 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5BfmhVHFu0cM; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 21:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65D9F3A1F84; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 21:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Zephyrus.local ([12.3.79.171]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 15844Q9W092308 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Jun 2021 23:04:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1623125069; bh=br/o3GPq+o3vOaXvaEuEJNLgzHmgvaAqPr3OQgGsHhY=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=DpVZvKEqwr3i1nAMYERE2hBmxf/rC9fo34UgjpIqiLK+J5w6WmCdaFTENzZDpFtEL AwCshja401PJMFuWcd10Hs4QsiqaoSCc7n4yr6FSg7aSzwa5MGdJZk6GWTb/SlFDEQ AbLY2s+W3TDLj1PBoO+AFTzAPVzZc4nuKQ3FVAEk= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [12.3.79.171] claimed to be Zephyrus.local To: Tools Team Discussion , Jay Daley References: <2DA51059-72D8-4536-A921-7875DC4E432C@ietf.org> Cc: The IESG From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <942b827f-d473-c31d-46e1-c3be8ee66823@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 21:04:26 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2DA51059-72D8-4536-A921-7875DC4E432C@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IETF Administration LLC staffing update X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 04:04:39 -0000 [cc'ing the IESG for their awareness, since authority over the @ietf.org domain has historically been in their remit] On 6/7/21 19:40, IETF Executive Director wrote: > Lee-Berkeley is an experienced fundraiser, most recently with the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT). She is based in the United States and can be reached at lbshaw@ietf.org. I'm surprised to see new personal addresses being provisioned under "@ietf.org". My recollection is that we had a discussion between the IESG and the LLC some while back (when I was still a member of the IESG) where we concluded that this is a confusing practice that might lead to conflicts in the future. The last I recall seeing on the topic was over a year ago, at which point it sounded like there was an active plan to move ahead with "@llc.ietf.org" email addresses: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/kxQjVyVdJtXeX6RWX2BTN-GMvTA/ Where do we stand on that plan, and what is the current thinking about how we might unwind in-use personal addresses under "@ietf.org"? /a From nobody Mon Jun 7 21:59:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944063A2141; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 21:59:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id maZ9drM71UhI; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 21:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BA0233A2140; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 21:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5A8531E2-E000-4DF7-A653-80C3BB56FDE1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jay Daley Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 16:59:33 +1200 Message-Id: <5B3DE7C5-A10D-42E8-B2DE-624B53C4CA53@ietf.org> References: <942b827f-d473-c31d-46e1-c3be8ee66823@nostrum.com> Cc: Tools Team Discussion , The IESG In-Reply-To: <942b827f-d473-c31d-46e1-c3be8ee66823@nostrum.com> To: Adam Roach X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18F72) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IETF Administration LLC staffing update X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 04:59:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail-5A8531E2-E000-4DF7-A653-80C3BB56FDE1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam > On 8/06/2021, at 4:04 PM, Adam Roach wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF[cc'ing the IESG for their awareness, since authority over the @i= etf.org domain has historically been in their remit] >> On 6/7/21 19:40, IETF Executive Director wrote: >> Lee-Berkeley is an experienced fundraiser, most recently with the Center f= or Democracy and Technology (CDT). She is based in the United States and ca= n be reached at lbshaw@ietf.org. >=20 >=20 > I'm surprised to see new personal addresses being provisioned under "@ietf= .org". My recollection is that we had a discussion between the IESG and the L= LC some while back (when I was still a member of the IESG) where we conclude= d that this is a confusing practice that might lead to conflicts in the futu= re.=20 I=E2=80=99ll leave the IESG to speak for themselves but I will note that thi= s new email address was created with the permission of the IESG. The previou= s email for our Senior SDE did not have prior permission because I thought t= here was an agreement to use a specific naming scheme - initialslastname@iet= f.org - to avoid any possible future conflicts, but my recollection was off t= he mark and so this time I specifically sought permission.=20 > The last I recall seeing on the topic was over a year ago, at which point i= t sounded like there was an active plan to move ahead with "@llc.ietf.org" e= mail addresses: >=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/kxQjVyVdJtXeX6RWX2= BTN-GMvTA/ >=20 > Where do we stand on that plan, and what is the current thinking about how= we might unwind in-use personal addresses under "@ietf.org"? That email was not setting out a plan, only noting a number of possibilities= .=20 As I understand it, =E2=80=9Cconflicts in the future=E2=80=9C could mean eit= her a naming conflict or a conflict of representation. The former can be add= ressed by a naming scheme such as initial.lastname if initialslastname is no= t sufficient. The latter is more complex as the LLC does represent the IETF b= ut only in the limited areas of finance, meetings, legal compliance and cont= racts. Any issue with confusion would come from someone in the LLC overstep= ping that in the content of their emails, no matter the form of their addres= s.=20 However, and in case there is any doubt, this is solely within the purview o= f the IESG to decide and not the LLC.=20 Jay --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director >=20 > /a >=20 --Apple-Mail-5A8531E2-E000-4DF7-A653-80C3BB56FDE1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam

On 8/06/2021, at 4:04 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>= wrote:

=EF=BB=BF[cc'ing the IESG for their awareness, since authority over t= he @ietf.org domain has historically been in their remit]
On 6/7/21 19:40= , IETF Executive Director wrote:
L= ee-Berkeley is an experienced fundraiser, most recently with the Center for D= emocracy and Technology (CDT).  She is based in the United States and c= an be reached at lbshaw@ietf.org.


I'm surprised to see new personal addresses being provi= sioned under "@ietf.org". My recollection is that we had a discussion betwee= n the IESG and the LLC some while back (when I was still a member of the IES= G) where we concluded that this is a confusing practice that might lead to c= onflicts in the future. 

I=E2=80= =99ll leave the IESG to speak for themselves but I will note that this new e= mail address was created with the permission of the IESG. The previous email= for our Senior SDE did not have prior permission because I thought there wa= s an agreement to use a specific naming scheme - initialslastname@ietf.org -= to avoid any possible future conflicts, but my recollection was off the mar= k and so this time I specifically sought permission. 

The last I recall seeing on the topic was over a year ago, at w= hich point it sounded like there was an active plan to move ahead with "@llc= .ietf.org" email addresses:

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/to= ols-development/kxQjVyVdJtXeX6RWX2BTN-GMvTA/

Where do we stand on that plan, and what is the current thinking about how= we might unwind in-use personal addresses under "@ietf.org"?

That email was not setting out a plan, only no= ting a number of possibilities. 

As I understand= it, =E2=80=9Cconflicts in the future=E2=80=9C could mean either a naming co= nflict or a conflict of representation. The former can be addressed by a nam= ing scheme such as initial.lastname if initialslastname is not sufficient. T= he latter is more complex as the LLC does represent the IETF but only in the= limited areas of finance, meetings, legal compliance and contracts.  A= ny issue with confusion would come from someone in the LLC overstepping that= in the content of their emails, no matter the form of their address. <= /div>

However, and in case there is any doubt, this is so= lely within the purview of the IESG to decide and not the LLC. 

Jay

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF Executive= Director


/a

= = --Apple-Mail-5A8531E2-E000-4DF7-A653-80C3BB56FDE1-- From nobody Mon Jun 7 22:22:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F843A2205; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 22:21:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yB_mKxqupPZf; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 22:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E49D33A2200; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 22:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Zephyrus.local ([12.3.79.171]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 1585LS2t018420 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 8 Jun 2021 00:21:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1623129689; bh=Uu5ncOeILTzGn++UJgtCb3ebxSrv3RubwMFH1QoieRo=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Yx9Zki+jzpeYtozbERM96tCskW+fE0D/6cAQjYUfjInVLpmH1E8nEFsueqC3CcpDy EgAMByfVioj4pSOLc4cQRTbuM/KP76dJfF+Fau2uoUkXinrN4ONG26Lpk02Mh57bkm nMJSkjIpAl729naxDRlMOwOHno9bqnEprKRU8/bU= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [12.3.79.171] claimed to be Zephyrus.local To: Jay Daley Cc: Tools Team Discussion , The IESG References: <942b827f-d473-c31d-46e1-c3be8ee66823@nostrum.com> <5B3DE7C5-A10D-42E8-B2DE-624B53C4CA53@ietf.org> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 22:21:28 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5B3DE7C5-A10D-42E8-B2DE-624B53C4CA53@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IETF Administration LLC staffing update X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 05:21:38 -0000 On 6/7/21 23:59, Jay Daley wrote: > I’ll leave the IESG to speak for themselves but I will note that this > new email address was created with the permission of the IESG. The > previous email for our Senior SDE did not have prior permission > because I thought there was an agreement to use a specific naming > scheme - initialslastname@ietf.org - to avoid any possible future > conflicts, but my recollection was off the mark and so this time I > specifically sought permission. Okay -- this approach of continuing to grant exceptions differs materially and importantly from the conclusion that the IESG seated at IETF 104 reached. I can see how the current situation would be both frustrating for you and tenuous in general: an ad-hoc system of one-off approvals seems capricious and unsustainable, especially in the face of a steering group that changes composition every year. As we all seem to be in agreement that the IESG has authority in this matter, I would implore this IESG to develop a formal position on the topic and write it down, both so that future IESGs have a point of reference for future decisions, and so that the community can be informed of decisions regarding stewardship of the ietf.org domain. /a From nobody Tue Jun 8 01:10:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978B53A273D; Tue, 8 Jun 2021 01:10:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gmDuUWEFAWEv; Tue, 8 Jun 2021 01:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7966D3A2742; Tue, 8 Jun 2021 01:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [212.68.24.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7CABF60031C; Tue, 8 Jun 2021 11:09:34 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1623139774; bh=dZbtIieohovCMqiW7FCxlxhV77BJJv6GaD6FVbZYNJU=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=zX4SP7ZRstXmpEuS6qb9NB3yQHOkgLcgvxU15gNNpznm0RQsRUJsdkdUAamShsQJ9 r24KEGbbTjvDuO+iCHtTQlrE6eXP+Gyf8kL1tXk89omyG/rtdzplb+VK86NtV+AKXp E4BQJZVKzD9Nq/mlUzxKCCRZIq7kPgcZTAk28FQ0= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <0E6E11C4-8A82-47AB-AEE1-1408C7A3E24D@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6E3C35EE-1D47-4A2D-AFCC-9E7470D54E3D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 11:09:33 +0300 In-Reply-To: Cc: Jay Daley , The IESG , Tools Team Discussion To: Adam Roach References: <942b827f-d473-c31d-46e1-c3be8ee66823@nostrum.com> <5B3DE7C5-A10D-42E8-B2DE-624B53C4CA53@ietf.org> X-MailScanner-ID: 7CABF60031C.A3822 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IETF Administration LLC staffing update X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 08:10:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6E3C35EE-1D47-4A2D-AFCC-9E7470D54E3D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, On 2021-6-8, at 8:21, Adam Roach wrote: > On 6/7/21 23:59, Jay Daley wrote: >> I=E2=80=99ll leave the IESG to speak for themselves but I will note = that this new email address was created with the permission of the IESG. = The previous email for our Senior SDE did not have prior permission = because I thought there was an agreement to use a specific naming scheme = - initialslastname@ietf.org - to avoid any possible future conflicts, = but my recollection was off the mark and so this time I specifically = sought permission. >=20 > Okay -- this approach of continuing to grant exceptions differs = materially and importantly from the conclusion that the IESG seated at = IETF 104 reached. that conclusion doesn't seem to have been minuted - we searched, but = couldn't find anything. (I wish it had been.) > I can see how the current situation would be both frustrating for you = and tenuous in general: an ad-hoc system of one-off approvals seems = capricious and unsustainable, especially in the face of a steering group = that changes composition every year. >=20 > As we all seem to be in agreement that the IESG has authority in this = matter, I would implore this IESG to develop a formal position on the = topic and write it down, both so that future IESGs have a point of = reference for future decisions, and so that the community can be = informed of decisions regarding stewardship of the ietf.org domain. Actually, the current IESG is currently finalizing a policy together = with the LLC Board that should go for public comment soon. Since Lee-Berkeley started before that could happen, we decided to = approve lbshaw@ietf.org as her personal email address. This is because = she will almost exclusively interact with external individuals who may = not have much familiarity with the IETF, and so an @ietf.org email = address is therefore very helpful. Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_6E3C35EE-1D47-4A2D-AFCC-9E7470D54E3D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmC/Jb0ACgkQVLXDCb9w wVfskBAAjsIWJCDzbKQDLA517PcqaKjyqXW+tPRQjZa7ubpk2pItV6xlIO3oycS8 8L0NXJ5KHVy800WFI9doyGY5gegdCPA2i8aGqLoeXDvR75VLpJ9JKvdM2HZofwWk t3117t7hId/bnLQAghd7/ZcX490mpRHQ7bKXcJYMuZb/w72ZnSd1zO4pIkS3i6Fa T4hQIn/x6giJFYyWf+PYlTnq+fasPeQD5CRl+3ZMK50oUcDxNHrcvx4q36+vzJT4 +px5LXVHRZ1AoG48mk+1oXjnFtEm9YIZAwRc4PR4Fu8RuXIlKAHCNjydgZT+hdxt R4IRTfuzD2czxmk+ueHdLW/DOD9tqc9i1tmLKTAO8C4t/6lFjEo3NC7jR+BgVJs3 IQ8lduu+wNGcW+xCssb9fXF0A+tE602h/WqR7bgI6b+FuKRQktIVHIOKVqt681hj Vfm3X+4Y9gKzRz8iTj5lFatnP8/7A2edLebyhaC9RyKTlKA/NBmMWdo6japU6NeW 1Dt4n3zsRK8iBJGjY7gwbRGZ6C6ln+QRu13JSTZoxWbY0ytgTsxvQuTo3gXI+aAf H5rX+tBn9yCtDz4eAXH3Yob130syQ75Do6Ypx6mWidjTiDuv7tYDsSeDykvcOElV yRSvZwCX3/YJ5Dl/7RMaxyUOMrpnXWQZ+5ZeKadG8qx1zP61z6M= =QgZB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6E3C35EE-1D47-4A2D-AFCC-9E7470D54E3D-- From nobody Tue Jun 8 07:13:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A38CF3A3204; 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Tue, 08 Jun 2021 16:23:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 18:22:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ce1e6a05c4497021" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] XML2RFC version used by https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 23:23:18 -0000 --000000000000ce1e6a05c4497021 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I apologize for asking here, but I always get correct answers quickly. Have you people thought about your incentive structure? On https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/, I, and one co-author, are using this format of author with only a country attribute specified for .. Tencent America LLC
United States of America spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com
That processes just fine with XML2RFC 3.8.0, but errors out when I try to submit the XML file, which I try to provide so that it's available for anyone doing updates in the future without conversion. I remember seeing the same error before I updated to a newer version of xml2rfc. Is the submit tool using this version of XML2RFC on purpose? I can still upload the TXT file, but since that's like the third preferred input format out of three, I thought I should ask while my workaround still works! Best, Spencer --000000000000ce1e6a05c4497021 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I apologize for asking here, but I always get correct answ= ers quickly. Have you people thought about your incentive structure?=C2=A0<= div>
On=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-= mops-streaming-opcons/, I, and one co-author, are using this format of = author with only a country attribute specified for <postal>..=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <author initia= ls=3D"S." surname=3D"Dawkins" fullname=3D"Spencer = Dawkins">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <organization>Tencent Ameri= ca LLC</organization>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <address>
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <postal>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 <country>United States of America</country>
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </postal>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <email&= gt;spencerdawkins.ietf@gma= il.com</email>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </address>
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 </author>

That processes just f= ine with XML2RFC 3.8.0, but errors out when I try to submit the XML file, w= hich I try to provide so that it's available for anyone doing updates i= n the future without conversion.

I remember seein= g the same error before I updated to a newer version of xml2rfc.=C2=A0

Is the submit tool using this version of XML2RFC on pu= rpose?

I can still upload the TXT file, but since = that's like the third preferred input format out of three, I thought I = should ask while my workaround still works!=C2=A0=C2=A0

<= /div>
Best,

Spencer
--000000000000ce1e6a05c4497021-- From nobody Wed Jun 9 08:44:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4F33A1C54 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 08:44:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rb38LpSs0xfN for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 08:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3057E3A1C52 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 08:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.34.206]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 159FiXTX076182 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Jun 2021 10:44:34 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1623253474; bh=WFJVjpi9wtdx0SLLPsZgBkn7MqVMAQiwx8JGB9yMp3M=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=hFiYndeTbkninC7jX0/xURd7X7I9oWe4X6FTcy8hcX+8EQD9NYrAtHZOs0hpeb8uH E33ytyVCAS3rtMTX/3iC9c3S5UthJJKyzbsgzR5etz2GaQHOeDbN3fvZVhcJL04Doc ylzWQ+TAtCO3qjFEnAxFqI1BysUyzi8nEaJ3PeYE= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.34.206] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Tools Team Discussion References: From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 10:44:28 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------85BFE696FF1E9C3AB8A97566" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] XML2RFC version used by https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 15:44:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------85BFE696FF1E9C3AB8A97566 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Spencer - The datatracker is using 3.8.0. Could you send me your source xml (create a ticket and upload it if you have no other way) and/or send me the error you're seeing? RjS On 6/8/21 6:22 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > I apologize for asking here, but I always get correct answers quickly. > Have you people thought about your incentive structure? > > On https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/ > , > I, and one co-author, are using this format of author with only a > country attribute specified for .. > >     >       Tencent America LLC >      
>         >           United States of America >         >         spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com > >      
>     > > That processes just fine with XML2RFC 3.8.0, but errors out when I try > to submit the XML file, which I try to provide so that it's available > for anyone doing updates in the future without conversion. > > I remember seeing the same error before I updated to a newer version > of xml2rfc. > > Is the submit tool using this version of XML2RFC on purpose? > > I can still upload the TXT file, but since that's like the third > preferred input format out of three, I thought I should ask while my > workaround still works! > > Best, > > Spencer > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --------------85BFE696FF1E9C3AB8A97566 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Spencer -

The datatracker is using 3.8.0.

Could you send me your source xml (create a ticket and upload it if you have no other way) and/or send me the error you're seeing?

RjS

On 6/8/21 6:22 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
I apologize for asking here, but I always get correct answers quickly. Have you people thought about your incentive structure? 

On https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/, I, and one co-author, are using this format of author with only a country attribute specified for <postal>.. 

    <author initials="S." surname="Dawkins" fullname="Spencer Dawkins">
      <organization>Tencent America LLC</organization>
      <address>
        <postal>
          <country>United States of America</country>
        </postal>
        <email>spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com</email>
      </address>
    </author>

That processes just fine with XML2RFC 3.8.0, but errors out when I try to submit the XML file, which I try to provide so that it's available for anyone doing updates in the future without conversion.

I remember seeing the same error before I updated to a newer version of xml2rfc. 

Is the submit tool using this version of XML2RFC on purpose?

I can still upload the TXT file, but since that's like the third preferred input format out of three, I thought I should ask while my workaround still works!  

Best,

Spencer

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
--------------85BFE696FF1E9C3AB8A97566-- From nobody Sat Jun 12 08:30:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB373A171A for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:30:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8aBQyG4rks6W for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc0:45:216:3eff:fe7f:7abd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1150B3A1717 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:204:e600:411:d250:99ff:fedf:93cd] (unknown [IPv6:2601:204:e600:411:d250:99ff:fedf:93cd]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE772AE21E for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:30:23 +0200 (CEST) To: Tools Team Discussion From: Marc Petit-Huguenin Message-ID: <0a04b872-3e86-37ff-9492-1cec04c256bb@petit-huguenin.org> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:30:22 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Source repo for xml2rfc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 15:30:34 -0000 Hi, I got this messgae this morning when rebasing my local tree with the SVN repo for xml2rfc: Can't create session: Unable to connect to a repository at URL 'https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2 rfc/trunk': The server at 'https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/trunk' does not support the HTTP/ DAV protocol at /usr/share/perl5/Git/SVN.pm line 717. Was the SVN repo moved, and if that's the case where? Thanks. -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug From nobody Sat Jun 12 09:05:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9A23A1841 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:05:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rqEyHV8x3K3C for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F224C3A183F for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:05:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623513932; bh=J/XS7N2pF6AbvDVTCCIQ9Ced+ROT5OcAMfSFOMqgpGo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=ZU7heQ9yBWM6an0ditgQJsYNkeftbYsvvaEt3J2Y57CCP+U58X7KYncuLHEaZd7jl WqZIc+WfsDi2KkNxUggUTnl88kUdlj8vfsErtHDlItfpKdn1UOtMGLOkruR5R99zuR ohm15hp8O+OQebALsiO6n3x+KsfSGo6cGdnIfaa8= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([217.251.142.56]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mt75H-1l3Yof2bHd-00tWnx for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:05:32 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <0a04b872-3e86-37ff-9492-1cec04c256bb@petit-huguenin.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:05:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0a04b872-3e86-37ff-9492-1cec04c256bb@petit-huguenin.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GcYpVknhNxtonKjd/nDLKXpxOocXiBQT8IOWIdDg8YrP1uwDcDO 284yQx3dUOlqc2FVfpq/9UQis5VlSPMU+GgKu/3sDqCxEZ/zYwsRxD0CZ+cwTVrpoYk6s9W wwsel11sl4ALhCXIjqgL5ENi0EQSz5zjkXF0GOWZkJT44aeNEHXG+mGvTOpNmjYIWa54iTj EDi12qkEXCgPjPdNiKMXw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zp1hXlW82Y4=:MsWAlV0cSCzNFNbmWTzicg Kz/CqWFZyVKGeSnb/4upnP95Ilj8gt5jhVNnANxNyIvqVrjW9EZiuAdJH49SicAHc84gkT0i5 3FM/9gAC6vlrgqU+4GK8/GVZoxIjKQdhk9/fAXVToGMc3toysbQg1z2INZe+ygtDVeIRfogqR 9rylTzdNVtPseNNSN8MR9JD1J6vlW9hxse15f0d42x6Y1VL92dSGfe1Og4KnzYAA/6XR+hwR+ zHGcySfOd4ryRcXJ6GR/zxuRcvh4yv1WhYONmr+LEDZReBRrCRJebIYeA0LpZP7gsvFSk5f1O p5mfHS3xqz7+HbSXW2C68RIPYa1+oEgYlb/HoyiGIsSjx1TO42CbUPDXN+r5h6pGF3CPRs7Fu yuChHJdEiya+OKT3xiyBqe2PJuieeM/79LHDPepXPXqluK3BQI+/HVBS9K6eilbGeIZ/UtC3Z Yqcaw4I1oVaDH0fRAwj1X1bvwB9TgtQu0beOU6RU+p4AxswvPiU/6Gn8KT6lqNoo+A80yMrzL foIKow0VsF9sjA7S413ELmM5yiz34qQsccNESolr0IT2Cfwx2meF+chM8tlZX30Mwlz8v+/qM MztRzjwBgiKKxAuIsY1Hjg9XAj7L8f+YQxcg427xek07hSl5JiA4AUsL/U+hSAmQ1Q7KHG4LC nY5MImKmGDfwqO2T0zfEYV+DatJSG5Owg4mVJbrAgH8j0fnHB7josXLdd9FJlXkX0NyCF02Ny uygXCMv6PK+rt6t5ozNnip16nQB08NrcROeNw0w5oM9zA4rNtPI6x8EWGPFlbX55+14bzcw/q 0jXDMooqjufNqsQDrozHxu3cBKsJNtVe4BSMD9v5iGp6c1VmtOfJWmk3ux7c99SEVqReaqApt ugfc58dHjhCnM42m0aiQrwmllC1Cx4C0yiy2p14ORQyMRmXZuAPPN8qVLP2QSfXwejmzNeRdF n9xdfk+KttDUbzJy2tnKOg2M8lC/mzIlB3GGli33GkXtv9OiMWNX+Z/TkApUhCHRbmx0T7fy2 gtwfOsO8AmhHptK7Bvuk2nkojTdsk6ITFXEHhXBlPtyQ7+Wyg0uLws70qPLIkSdepN0Y5GqQ9 r+gOyJgYZVvxduAmnIJHXGFCkRVqQxI6sM1V215IRHQk3NK4Gd2QwDcCQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source repo for xml2rfc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 16:05:42 -0000 Am 12.06.2021 um 17:30 schrieb Marc Petit-Huguenin: > Hi, > > I got this messgae this morning when rebasing my local tree with the SVN > repo for xml2rfc: > > Can't create session: Unable to connect to a repository at URL > 'https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2 > rfc/trunk': The server at > 'https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/trunk' does not support > the HTTP/ > DAV protocol at /usr/share/perl5/Git/SVN.pm line 717. > > Was the SVN repo moved, and if that's the case where? > > Thanks. It was indeed moved, but I don't know where exaclty either. See also . Best regards, Julian From nobody Sat Jun 12 09:07:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F0BC3A1850 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:07:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5kJQXiFdLYsR for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81D013A184F for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G2N0K3nkrz2xFs; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:07:45 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:07:45 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645206865.162083-c57256096a2842b70b86298ef5b554bc Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6A5B5F2B-DC29-4C87-AA68-9EA425997457@tzi.org> References: <0a04b872-3e86-37ff-9492-1cec04c256bb@petit-huguenin.org> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source repo for xml2rfc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 16:07:52 -0000 On 2021-06-12, at 18:05, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >> https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/trunk The department of educated guessing produced: https://svn.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/trunk/ Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Jun 12 09:30:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2593A18F6 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:30:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O--2UrfMFUGO for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [92.243.22.217]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 115C53A18F4 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:204:e600:411:d250:99ff:fedf:93cd] (unknown [IPv6:2601:204:e600:411:d250:99ff:fedf:93cd]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FDE1AE255; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:30:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Marc Petit-Huguenin To: Carsten Bormann , Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <0a04b872-3e86-37ff-9492-1cec04c256bb@petit-huguenin.org> <6A5B5F2B-DC29-4C87-AA68-9EA425997457@tzi.org> Message-ID: <0a6c5d2a-8371-6fad-d394-73d8fb1687e8@petit-huguenin.org> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:30:05 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6A5B5F2B-DC29-4C87-AA68-9EA425997457@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source repo for xml2rfc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 16:30:19 -0000 Thanks Julian and Carsteen, that works. Looking at the history I see that it was updated with version 3.8.0, but I cannot find an announce at the usual places for that new version. Is that accidental, our should I stop counting on a new version announce to rebase my copy? Thanks. On 6/12/21 9:07 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-06-12, at 18:05, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >>> https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/trunk > > The department of educated guessing produced: > > https://svn.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/trunk/ > > Grüße, Carsten > -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug From nobody Sat Jun 12 09:33:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 658713A18FD for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:33:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ik3GLeG9jZm9 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB0213A0D4D for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G2NYR6ZYVz2xGX; Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:32:59 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <0a6c5d2a-8371-6fad-d394-73d8fb1687e8@petit-huguenin.org> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:32:59 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645208379.521269-41a56ba534d43d64053839e1fd8cc40f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4D3A5E2E-F649-4BA4-9002-A8E94F16BF50@tzi.org> References: <0a04b872-3e86-37ff-9492-1cec04c256bb@petit-huguenin.org> <6A5B5F2B-DC29-4C87-AA68-9EA425997457@tzi.org> <0a6c5d2a-8371-6fad-d394-73d8fb1687e8@petit-huguenin.org> To: Marc Petit-Huguenin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source repo for xml2rfc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 16:33:07 -0000 On 2021-06-12, at 18:30, Marc Petit-Huguenin = wrote: >=20 > Looking at the history I see that it was updated with version 3.8.0, = but I cannot find an announce at the usual places for that new version. = Is that accidental, our should I stop counting on a new version announce = to rebase my copy? Indeed, I can=E2=80=99t find the announcement at the usual places = (roc-markdown, xml2rfc, xml2rfc-dev). I=E2=80=99d assume that was an = omission. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sun Jun 13 18:10:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1848D3A18B4; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:10:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hQcGBxg2u_nS; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 448DB3A18B3; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2EBE38B27; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id AM1pyRuQRnEb; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 498D738B25; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD422B3; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:09:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: netmod@ietf.org cc: anima@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 01:10:00 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'm not a regular netmod reader. I subscribe via IMAP to look into what's going on. If I'm asking a FAQ, I appologize as I didn't find anything in the 25K messages archived. I saw Christian's message in 2019 about org-rfc-export. I'm not sure if I should Reply-To: tools or netmod. I'm looking for advice on how to manage things. A summary of my questions: 1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML. 2) how to generate yang tree files. 3) how do I get my YANG includes downloaded, and do I put them into my repo? 4) how to do this with MT Makefiles? When we were working on RFC8995 and RFC8366, in the days before Martin Thompson's makefile was around, I just put pyang processing into my simple Makefile. It's here: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/mas= ter/Makefile The perl script at: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/master= /insert-figures was then developed to insert stuff into the XML. It's rather hacky in some= ways. It started it's life as just something to find the latest @YYYY-MM-DD yang file which the Makefile created. (Kent wrote that sed line three quarters of a decade ago, and the sed line now is old enough to trick-or-treat) Over time, it grew the ability to insert other bits of code or diagrams. I keep using it, even when I've moved to Markdown because it inserts the right artwork stuff, and knows to deal with YANG stuff. I also keep using = my Makefile, because except for the simplest uses, the MT ones are too complicated for me to hack. With kramdown source, I can mostly just add stuff to the MT Makefile to generate the files I need, and then mostly (without insert-figures), I can use the ::include mechanism in kramdown to get the right things. But, no magic YYYY-MM-DD stuff. So now I am collaborating with some co-authors which want to stick to XMLv3 rather than kramdown, and whose understanding of Makefiles is poor. I want to stick with the normal stuff so that all the github/etc. tooling works for everyone involved. I'm looking for advice on how do this this? =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDGrGAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWc3Qf+N+XVM1joi4OF1bvfU6VxbuPodS/6wVwcLgR05yN+0yAZWq51BK+76rfo vE8YcjmP9h0ENRP7UxG1FOGudtdYTBclJMEtsf6SCTPt+LHvFRR/GiamPutWDVn8 W6r3Fbtouh3Xw9HzbezrVslA6T6R8EItVTa0BFZR+UWgXFG3UrFgDcLgs9iguwEb k8qunerfRdY2+pfUgusIuJGSbZC4cfOtloIYsWy8r1rlvNEP2xwrVblBaZwuw6qc 1eNPmhdaY0D0wdJD62kILFsQZihF2TiBe3Id9qc2mczM0bN5wyeqRSInVbUgVnpH JWL3zaMZVlvAkId3GsCpOB3wRRr/KA== =ocdM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Jun 13 18:19:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467A83A1901; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:19:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w0686TecFvlk; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493783A1900; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC9838B32; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 41CqVSoLRIo6; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F5D38B25; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A59062B3; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:19:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson to: netmod@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <6795.1623632992@localhost> References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 01:19:41 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Richardson wrote: > 3) how do I get my YANG includes downloaded, and do I put them into m= y repo? RFC8995 has been published. It has a YANG module, ietf-voucher-request, which is derived from the RFC83= 66 ietf-voucher. RFC8366 has: ietf-voucher@2018-05-09 The DT still points at: https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/module_details.php?module=3Dietf= -voucher@2017-10-25.yang but search on that page leads me to: https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/module_details.php?module=3Dietf-= voucher which has the 2018-05-09 version, although I don't know how to reference it except for search for it. But, finally, it's even at: /usr/local/lib/python3.7/dist-packages/pyang-2.3.2-py3.7.egg/share/yang/= modules/ietf so including ietf-voucher should not be a problem. It seems that the yang modules ought to go into a different package than the pyang itself, and ideally, I'd like to be able to rsync it. I'd further li= ke if pyang could download stuff and cache it like xml2rfc (and kdrfc) does. Until that point, what should I do? I have been just putting the .yang fil= es into my repository where I derive stuff from them. How do I get the DT to be updated on YANG pointers? =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDGrqMACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWlOAf/X8XTldFIzPsaLgN4TCWRb7LidPRQdVorqJYC8t+SLWBArZJMcsc+eby8 1IUHERKHGpOzqAi1fjP0nvSrHps/DTNViDh9PYFSZjbZWXvZKjSAw1iG0ZFumf1V eoFzaUyeIA4HMTfGCvdy85zH0/XSDaqJ5P3hGeuyG6OIrfGxMo52IdfLB8AmvO3p 83pkz2Z9dSLmCris40XNxfVILAoJEyaqhW8XbW3M/KXSsIaTBuJ6Rwv+WRdon0B+ sntsW5iIlPwElPgu+vTrvahDCs+x23o+vIQlR/AvC3sUalyrXsi7ECPvXdNVRSSy xCZBbPzgnM5j8SttT4EKEJJEK+8/dA== =Gvty -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Jun 13 21:36:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D7E3A10E5; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:36:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2WDO2Syv0e1D; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDC1D3A10E2; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G3JYL26F5z2xFl; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:36:06 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <6795.1623632992@localhost> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:36:05 +0200 Cc: netmod@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 04:36:15 -0000 On 14. Jun 2021, at 03:09, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > 1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML. > 2) how to generate yang tree files. > 3) how do I get my YANG includes downloaded, and do I put them into my = repo? > 4) how to do this with MT Makefiles? I people could tell me what they need, we could develop a feature in = kramdown-rfc to handle this. (This would presumably also include support for YANG-SID files.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jun 14 00:40:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CCFC3A192D; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 00:40:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qey_uGacUV5y; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 00:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B18A63A192A; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 00:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E28E7140957; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:39:55 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1623656396; bh=fVipS/i1U8L4hea/To3h6yyD46Of52wRPKvstZapnSc=; h=From:To:Date; b=XWI1fu5sr7v3imQLedPZTxEvOfmtY+aDzkkU+vQRGA4Kyx8BVwEN3+VhQl8rl649c R2SbkHqWrGkQZF4jDHsOEtlsjeOw/Hycmz02dKomcCYv3plD9jioASXKPA1gGLjjBH wncM9TanGWyPpu7sRxMm1TnrJgt9v8erHkNAQ82E= From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Michael Richardson , netmod@ietf.org Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <6795.1623632992@localhost> References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> Mail-Followup-To: Michael Richardson , netmod@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:39:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87o8c87v3o.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [netmod] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:40:07 -0000 Hi Michael, you can check my project YANG-I-D [1] for some ideas. The most elegant way of including YANG modules in RFCs would be to treat th= e RFC source as a compound XML document combining xml2rfc with YANG modules= in the YIN syntax - if only xml2rfc could process it. Lada [1] https://github.com/llhotka/YANG-I-D Michael Richardson writes: > Hi, I'm not a regular netmod reader. > I subscribe via IMAP to look into what's going on. If I'm asking a FAQ, I > appologize as I didn't find anything in the 25K messages archived. > I saw Christian's message in 2019 about org-rfc-export. > I'm not sure if I should Reply-To: tools or netmod. > > I'm looking for advice on how to manage things. > A summary of my questions: > > 1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML. > 2) how to generate yang tree files. > 3) how do I get my YANG includes downloaded, and do I put them into my re= po? > 4) how to do this with MT Makefiles? > > When we were working on RFC8995 and RFC8366, in the days before Martin > Thompson's makefile was around, I just put pyang processing into my simple > Makefile. It's here: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/m= aster/Makefile > > The perl script at: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/mast= er/insert-figures > was then developed to insert stuff into the XML. It's rather hacky in so= me ways. > It started it's life as just something to find the latest @YYYY-MM-DD yang > file which the Makefile created. (Kent wrote that sed line three quarters= of > a decade ago, and the sed line now is old enough to trick-or-treat) > Over time, it grew the ability to insert other bits of code or diagrams. > I keep using it, even when I've moved to Markdown because it inserts the > right artwork stuff, and knows to deal with YANG stuff. I also keep usin= g my > Makefile, because except for the simplest uses, the MT ones are too > complicated for me to hack. > > With kramdown source, I can mostly just add stuff to the MT Makefile to > generate the files I need, and then mostly (without insert-figures), I can > use the ::include mechanism in kramdown to get the right things. But, no > magic YYYY-MM-DD stuff. > > So now I am collaborating with some co-authors which want to stick to XML= v3 > rather than kramdown, and whose understanding of Makefiles is poor. I wa= nt > to stick with the normal stuff so that all the github/etc. tooling works = for > everyone involved. > > I'm looking for advice on how do this this? > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consul= ting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jun 14 03:21:58 2021 Return-Path: <0100017a0a0a837e-ed759916-40e8-4856-9eb3-16fb586a0834-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3790F3A1EE6; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 03:21:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.892 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.892 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OudcpgNqrbdF; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 03:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 983823A1EE5; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 03:21:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1623666099; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To:Feedback-ID; bh=ZjVEsQ72C2pu3v6sZtp1pEUhbayay5VvXxOxUBGqcrg=; b=kQOLARn1sI+eV4DRXIUbuvCcxEVdghlLYeFSaSfFnroUc0QGr9ihTpuRg+RZFtzV FFa9k/hzIf4PdDUlyETVIJ+6wny7SVcmh0r6FjDhPhrAthCITWYNQBO2o9CbKOrJFIX wPSNg8G7Rjlh0N9ibeP7/rhzp1KAX4gtg/fSVNFA= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-77300609-97C4-4B11-99D8-B8C4879FF125 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kent Watsen Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:21:39 +0000 Message-ID: <0100017a0a0a837e-ed759916-40e8-4856-9eb3-16fb586a0834-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> Cc: netmod@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <6795.1623632992@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18A8395) Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.06.14-54.240.8.83 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:21:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail-77300609-97C4-4B11-99D8-B8C4879FF125 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael! There isn=E2=80=99t a standard of any sort, but as an active author of a lar= ge number of drafts, I=E2=80=99ve been force to automate as much as possible= : - validating the schema - validating examples - generating tree diagrams - stitching all off the above into an XML file - on a per-build basis=20 AFAIK, my system is more complete than used by other authors, most whom seem= to do it manually, with mixed results... I author in XML v3 with macros that get expanded in the source, you may have= linked my INSERT_TEXT_IN_FILE macro earlier, that =E2=80=98insert-figures=E2= =80=99 consumes. It=E2=80=99s effectively the same, with little improvement= s here and there.=20 There=E2=80=99s no =E2=80=9Ctool=E2=80=9D to do it*, each draft begins as a c= opy/paste of one prior, and then the Makefile, refs/validate-all.sh, and ref= s/gen-trees.sh files are tweaked as needed. For examples: see the top-10 r= epos listed here: https://github.com/netconf-wg.=20 * I was previously working on =E2=80=98xiax=E2=80=99 here: https://github.co= m/kwatsen/xiax.=20 K.=20 > On Jun 13, 2021, at 9:10 PM, Michael Richardson wr= ote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi, I'm not a regular netmod reader. > I subscribe via IMAP to look into what's going on. If I'm asking a FAQ, I= > appologize as I didn't find anything in the 25K messages archived. > I saw Christian's message in 2019 about org-rfc-export. > I'm not sure if I should Reply-To: tools or netmod. >=20 > I'm looking for advice on how to manage things. > A summary of my questions: >=20 > 1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML. > 2) how to generate yang tree files. > 3) how do I get my YANG includes downloaded, and do I put them into my rep= o? > 4) how to do this with MT Makefiles? >=20 > When we were working on RFC8995 and RFC8366, in the days before Martin > Thompson's makefile was around, I just put pyang processing into my simple= > Makefile. It's here: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/ma= ster/Makefile >=20 > The perl script at: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/maste= r/insert-figures > was then developed to insert stuff into the XML. It's rather hacky in som= e ways. > It started it's life as just something to find the latest @YYYY-MM-DD yang= > file which the Makefile created. (Kent wrote that sed line three quarters o= f > a decade ago, and the sed line now is old enough to trick-or-treat) > Over time, it grew the ability to insert other bits of code or diagrams. > I keep using it, even when I've moved to Markdown because it inserts the > right artwork stuff, and knows to deal with YANG stuff. I also keep using= my > Makefile, because except for the simplest uses, the MT ones are too > complicated for me to hack. >=20 > With kramdown source, I can mostly just add stuff to the MT Makefile to > generate the files I need, and then mostly (without insert-figures), I can= > use the ::include mechanism in kramdown to get the right things. But, no > magic YYYY-MM-DD stuff. >=20 > So now I am collaborating with some co-authors which want to stick to XMLv= 3 > rather than kramdown, and whose understanding of Makefiles is poor. I wan= t > to stick with the normal stuff so that all the github/etc. tooling works f= or > everyone involved. >=20 > I'm looking for advice on how do this this? >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consult= ing ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima --Apple-Mail-77300609-97C4-4B11-99D8-B8C4879FF125 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael!

There isn=E2= =80=99t a standard of any sort, but as an active author of a large number of= drafts, I=E2=80=99ve been force to automate as much as possible:
=
  - validating the schema
  - validating e= xamples
  - generating tree diagrams
  - stitc= hing all off the above into an XML file
  - on a per-build ba= sis 

AFAIK, my system is more complete than us= ed by other authors, most whom seem to do it manually, with mixed results...=

I author in XML v3 with macros that get expanded i= n the source, you may have linked my INSERT_TEXT_IN_FILE macro earlier, that= =E2=80=98insert-figures=E2=80=99 consumes.  It=E2=80=99s effectively t= he same, with little improvements here and there. 

=
There=E2=80=99s no =E2=80=9Ctool=E2=80=9D to do it*, each draft begins a= s a copy/paste of one prior, and then the Makefile, refs/validate-all.sh, an= d refs/gen-trees.sh files are tweaked as needed.   For examples: see th= e top-10 repos listed here: h= ttps://github.com/netconf-wg. 

* I was pre= viously working on =E2=80=98xiax=E2=80=99 here: https://github.com/kwatsen/xiax. 
K. 

On J= un 13, 2021, at 9:10 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wr= ote:

=EF= =BB=BF
Hi, I'm not a regular netmod reader.
= I subscribe via IMAP to look into what's going on.  If I'm asking= a FAQ, I
appologize as I didn't find anything in the 25K me= ssages archived.
I saw Christian's message in 2019 about org= -rfc-export.
I'm not sure if I should Reply-To: tools or net= mod.

I'm looking for advice on how to manag= e things.
A summary of my questions:
=
1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML.
<= span>2) how to generate yang tree files.
3) how do I get my Y= ANG includes downloaded, and do I put them into my repo?
4) h= ow to do this with MT Makefiles?

When we we= re working on RFC8995 and RFC8366, in the days before Martin
Thompson's makefile was around, I just put pyang processing into my simple<= /span>
Makefile.  It's here:  https://github.com/anima-wg= /anima-bootstrap/blob/master/Makefile

The p= erl script at: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/master/inser= t-figures
was then developed to insert stuff into the XML. &= nbsp;It's rather hacky in some ways.
It started it's life as= just something to find the latest @YYYY-MM-DD yang
file whi= ch the Makefile created. (Kent wrote that sed line three quarters of<= br>a decade ago, and the sed line now is old enough to trick-or-treat)=
Over time, it grew the ability to insert other bits of code= or diagrams.
I keep using it, even when I've moved to Markd= own because it inserts the
right artwork stuff, and knows to= deal with YANG stuff.  I also keep using my
Makefile, b= ecause except for the simplest uses, the MT ones are too
com= plicated for me to hack.

With kramdown sour= ce, I can mostly just add stuff to the MT Makefile to
genera= te the files I need, and then mostly (without insert-figures), I can<= br>use the ::include mechanism in kramdown to get the right things. &n= bsp;But, no
magic YYYY-MM-DD stuff.
<= br>So now I am collaborating with some co-authors which want to stick t= o XMLv3
rather than kramdown, and whose understanding of Mak= efiles is poor.  I want
to stick with the normal stuff s= o that all the github/etc. tooling works for
everyone involv= ed.

I'm looking for advice on how do this t= his?

--
Michael Richardson &= lt;mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulting )<= /span>
          = ;Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
<= br>


________________= _______________________________
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= --Apple-Mail-77300609-97C4-4B11-99D8-B8C4879FF125-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 06:52:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8004A3A2532 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:52:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mXTiwiKY4G4B for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 849023A2530 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id b9so15537142ybg.10 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:52:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mvEYnhJxDFUH0Z49Wcps4mUOezb6UjBuNB5IT7fdDhQ=; b=unJxk+OxhJzX8MfpUOxfOCgAcUkz/J4qvPA1apsJDie3932q5e03mdvLagGZmpBh99 bCASI2RadzWLbkjYOWzfjGq3mkw2KjHixsFeQi3sSEukcyUVdlQozPDQs1YmLgfjs7UJ qtHmUyIhUDPN0XEpqAUv/V+Q6AFQCYODmGGso1PX7CdZ9gxI5aQ9kiMXrgBBk9cVgECI R356l7Hn44wMCadlbViZSJ/r+n8+6Zu08tGohcZw2SRHBhP3uenUstQyGB3EoOuZC8+8 ibzr3lEDduz351ceNxsGgz4eR/ckAkuLAO7Fu0AR3E/7nDmaRuaR2AQbem/UjjB+Mtwj nW2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mvEYnhJxDFUH0Z49Wcps4mUOezb6UjBuNB5IT7fdDhQ=; b=saL+r3LBhAc7PsL/OZ367DrmA4xl0FuEuna9QYw/M8Cl5v4pyhrg+9LI6gW0g3dUvH B9kPUteV5R0nCUnhLQAab7SfHvxvrPxLqWRiJ6J7Qf8xzpNfLd0ywDXirVT7t93ohbvf a5glz2yTBzsSkub/ok3jM/TIIZ1g289mv8yf05kpPMTPz1AXz7olvZFew+91X6n8Pv7D kwBaZWDYJSlPyo6qnAIbL2ZsjzLR93rJ7UZr3sfD2UwwVqvmiZUwKInCFTofPSCu9Cut NaS8HqU/oK4ToV94DRWYco4P3UVRa/y8E11fxmabFgBvtPms5hkQfqyvZSi/AiXVPMr9 ULpg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Dh6vpJybwJz+aNCXhHPXvtFd/Mwuq0FMGr07ZvwyQydhyhd11 BgwF5iPYI5vBAQU4mVShGuNFW+Pn34gH2/dU+TochNiZOiygNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhrDvHjSL+k7jKK4rHpojR/JD4Hs5k7eg/6S2/Jk1ZXheNtqTzHwDo95KemOcdVhHkS9QlqIB6KSCd178SEio= X-Received: by 2002:a25:2b05:: with SMTP id r5mr24886066ybr.465.1623678753461; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:52:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:52:06 -0500 Message-ID: To: Robert Sparks Cc: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000054593c05c4ba2b77" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] XML2RFC version used by https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:52:42 -0000 --00000000000054593c05c4ba2b77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Robert, On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:44 AM Robert Sparks wrote: > Hi Spencer - > > The datatracker is using 3.8.0. > > Could you send me your source xml (create a ticket and upload it if you > have no other way) and/or send me the error you're seeing? > I was getting this error from https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/blob/main/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons.md, converted to XML using kramdown-rfc2629 1.4.15 and kramdown 2.3.1. I cleverly didn't record the error (sigh), but it was something very close to "expecting (street:, city:, country:), got (country:). I'd seen that before, on my system which was outdated, like a year ago, so thought to ask. I opened https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/ticket/3305 about this, but don't see a place to upload my XML file. Am I missing something? I am logged in ... I hope this helps! Best, Spencer > RjS > On 6/8/21 6:22 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > > I apologize for asking here, but I always get correct answers quickly. > Have you people thought about your incentive structure? > > On https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/, I, > and one co-author, are using this format of author with only a country > attribute specified for .. > > > Tencent America LLC >
> > United States of America > > spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com >
> > > That processes just fine with XML2RFC 3.8.0, but errors out when I try to > submit the XML file, which I try to provide so that it's available for > anyone doing updates in the future without conversion. > > I remember seeing the same error before I updated to a newer version of > xml2rfc. > > Is the submit tool using this version of XML2RFC on purpose? > > I can still upload the TXT file, but since that's like the third preferred > input format out of three, I thought I should ask while my workaround still > works! > > Best, > > Spencer > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > --00000000000054593c05c4ba2b77 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Robert,=C2=A0

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 1= 0:44 AM Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Hi Spencer -

The datatracker is using 3.8.0.

Could you send me your source xml (create a ticket and upload it if you have no other way) and/or send me the error you're seeing?=

I was getting this error from https://github.com/ietf-wg= -mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/blob/main/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-= opcons.md, converted to XML using=C2=A0kramdown-rfc2629 1.4.15 and=C2= =A0kramdown 2.3.1.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0

I cleverly didn't record the error (= sigh), but it was something very close to "expecting (street:, city:, = country:), got (country:).=C2=A0

I'd seen that= before, on my system which was outdated, like a year ago, so thought to as= k.=C2=A0

I opened=C2=A0https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/ticket/330= 5 about this, but don't see a place to upload my XML file. Am I mis= sing=C2=A0something? I am logged in ...

I hope thi= s helps!

Best,

Spencer

RjS

On 6/8/21 6:22 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
=20
I apologize for asking here, but I always get correct answers quickly. Have you people thought about your incentive structure?=C2=A0

On=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/, I, and one co-author, are using this format of author with only a country attribute specified for <postal>..=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <author initials=3D"= S." surname=3D"Dawkins" fullname=3D"Spencer Dawkins&qu= ot;>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <organization>Tencent America LLC</organization>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <address>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <postal>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <country>United States o= f America</country>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </postal>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <email>spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com</email>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </address>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </author>

That processes just fine with XML2RFC 3.8.0, but errors out when I try to submit the XML file, which I try to provide so that it's available for anyone doing updates in the future without conversion.

I remember seeing the same error before I updated to a newer version of xml2rfc.=C2=A0

Is the submit tool using this version of XML2RFC on purpose?

I can still upload the TXT file, but since that's like the third preferred input format out of three, I thought I should ask while my workaround still works!=C2=A0=C2=A0

Best,

Spencer

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org=
 bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/tools-discuss
--00000000000054593c05c4ba2b77-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 06:59:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F77D3A255C for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:59:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.079 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.079 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F6KK8BWhXZ5o for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05A483A2567 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.34.206]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 15EDxfg9046824 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:59:42 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1623679183; bh=X+pd4HwaAp+utllRe0STbeLxoL0PMBF6IvDNJL4W8Cc=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=U8Yv/NZYTIMMwmSkBF1TJLVkkgomKn+03XVw1aFhdyJ/r7WzQ2+OpAmo0m82uTEmX 6sXwLNo++IovCqkkvX7ZxK1zvwK8UEFsiqql159EEY9uk92dG8ZIRopf98B4/0VDdi vJnrVZB1JgijRgDuSOt+2M14Aa8J603czx8hQ29s= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.34.206] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: Tools Team Discussion References: From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:59:36 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CF4216DFF195D16F11E99C84" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] XML2RFC version used by https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:59:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CF4216DFF195D16F11E99C84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Spencer - look at the ticket again now for the ability to upload attachments (I added you to the set of people that can modify trac tickets, so your options should have changed). RjS On 6/14/21 8:52 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Hi, Robert, > > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:44 AM Robert Sparks > wrote: > > Hi Spencer - > > The datatracker is using 3.8.0. > > Could you send me your source xml (create a ticket and upload it > if you have no other way) and/or send me the error you're seeing? > > I was getting this error from > https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/blob/main/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons.md > , > converted to XML using kramdown-rfc2629 1.4.15 and kramdown 2.3.1. > > I cleverly didn't record the error (sigh), but it was something very > close to "expecting (street:, city:, country:), got (country:). > > I'd seen that before, on my system which was outdated, like a year > ago, so thought to ask. > > I opened https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/ticket/3305 > about this, but don't > see a place to upload my XML file. Am I missing something? I am logged > in ... > > I hope this helps! > > Best, > > Spencer > > RjS > > On 6/8/21 6:22 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: >> I apologize for asking here, but I always get correct answers >> quickly. Have you people thought about your incentive structure? >> >> On >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/ >> , >> I, and one co-author, are using this format of author with only a >> country attribute specified for .. >> >>     >>       Tencent America LLC >>      
>>         >>           United States of America >>         >>         spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com >> >>      
>>     >> >> That processes just fine with XML2RFC 3.8.0, but errors out when >> I try to submit the XML file, which I try to provide so that it's >> available for anyone doing updates in the future without conversion. >> >> I remember seeing the same error before I updated to a newer >> version of xml2rfc. >> >> Is the submit tool using this version of XML2RFC on purpose? >> >> I can still upload the TXT file, but since that's like the third >> preferred input format out of three, I thought I should ask while >> my workaround still works! >> >> Best, >> >> Spencer >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list -Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to:datatracker-project@ietf.org >> * Reporttools.ietf.org bugs to:webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to:ietf-action@ietf.org >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe):https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > --------------CF4216DFF195D16F11E99C84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Spencer - look at the ticket again now for the ability to upload attachments (I added you to the set of people that can modify trac tickets, so your options should have changed).

RjS

On 6/14/21 8:52 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
Hi, Robert, 

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:44 AM Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:

Hi Spencer -

The datatracker is using 3.8.0.

Could you send me your source xml (create a ticket and upload it if you have no other way) and/or send me the error you're seeing?

I was getting this error from https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/blob/main/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons.md, converted to XML using kramdown-rfc2629 1.4.15 and kramdown 2.3.1.                                      

I cleverly didn't record the error (sigh), but it was something very close to "expecting (street:, city:, country:), got (country:). 

I'd seen that before, on my system which was outdated, like a year ago, so thought to ask. 

I opened https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/ticket/3305 about this, but don't see a place to upload my XML file. Am I missing something? I am logged in ...

I hope this helps!

Best,

Spencer

RjS

On 6/8/21 6:22 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
I apologize for asking here, but I always get correct answers quickly. Have you people thought about your incentive structure? 

On https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/, I, and one co-author, are using this format of author with only a country attribute specified for <postal>.. 

    <author initials="S." surname="Dawkins" fullname="Spencer Dawkins">
      <organization>Tencent America LLC</organization>
      <address>
        <postal>
          <country>United States of America</country>
        </postal>
        <email>spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com</email>
      </address>
    </author>

That processes just fine with XML2RFC 3.8.0, but errors out when I try to submit the XML file, which I try to provide so that it's available for anyone doing updates in the future without conversion.

I remember seeing the same error before I updated to a newer version of xml2rfc. 

Is the submit tool using this version of XML2RFC on purpose?

I can still upload the TXT file, but since that's like the third preferred input format out of three, I thought I should ask while my workaround still works!  

Best,

Spencer

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
--------------CF4216DFF195D16F11E99C84-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 07:09:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17CB3A25A4; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:09:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M20WMcZ8lxSc; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A6393A259B; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0708D38C35; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id wUEbUDVQMhUE; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DB738C2D; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FFDE236; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:09:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann cc: netmod@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:09:46 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 14. Jun 2021, at 03:09, Michael Richardson = wrote: >> >> 1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML. >> 2) how to generate yang tree files. >> 3) how do I get my YANG includes downloaded, and do I put them into = my repo? >> 4) how to do this with MT Makefiles? > I people could tell me what they need, we could develop a feature in > kramdown-rfc to handle this. One possibility is that kramdown-rfc ought to look for, and include the latest foo-YYYY-MM-DD.yang file, when told to ::include foo.yang. Alternatively, it could perhaps do the YYYY-MM-DD substitution itself. > (This would presumably also include support for YANG-SID files.) That's mostly just a question about including the results, and it's not that hard thing to add to the main Makefile. But, as I said, I xml2rfc doesn't have a useful include functionality, for when not working with kramdown. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDHYyAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WV3aQgAmGkXaZLl6M1ymcKws6YKMg4TII1n2Az07W9kfq5s9mgwtvYdF38y4QKz QeoRViqDTTLDKcyaUTyh8UkA0rKSsdxr+TklpF6AnPrWR4N4h5ItRMyDeYK9P/b1 icv8BXdTVfCYAfNqaS5kzRVXKc+gTb4WaXCtjUAdeGsrZdk/878/p1ihx9baBBmb By8Yhk6LMEmBszEKxhjiI+fRIlQzc9f25aRqRjCMnMl45PmnyscSWJT6i1bY3Rkp cFHmo5tR2Jj3i9i6Wfom0yX3dug/t47QF0tKRnuKlCL/4VKxIOjwjjLBjmgXr9lM WC80t4UYOMBfZ8Tj4vIuCJ/QpTUZug== =F6vk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 07:17:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8920B3A25EA for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:17:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cMiSblNxNQkz for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7B843A25E9 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:17:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623680242; bh=K0og/Vo6R7hDHoV7zW1Bl7UoXxsY14vpvgAqwRWwzIU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Z91WvJxflFs5BwcOgE5F6XhF8d8OGrldMs77tb2rg8/hWjqfRHgGUtHlGiAhvhwFM 7rQfg9c5ZnjwVF+rSf55hZ3pimwIBSQJ/yoRgjl4zZdKPDAK8Nr9sz4gOdEK2yk5Pq IveR8gE1uPClVhcYrTGphT+8S1Gzvh4QDMAEiZ9A= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.236] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MBDjA-1m27KR3g6g-00Cmce for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:17:21 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:17:20 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <16776.1623679777@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:p7yIxi/n319CVZI6F4UMaMcTfVohJQxzIZKHCZzxUnRN6j5q1vn 456V6UOBHzk7u05uBtpvgfKjqztw090fvi8oRaLi418ISGC1wqTkCiZAkSvtBJUSjuVNXWk AXZfJc53RTij3k6JEtV59U3Wgse3TRiWx0NANlbVCJ3j038KP18r/BFDuKvwLYQD3UvCdAx oCgvNA8Rso6R9IvDLLRtw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:SbEWEyHBF5I=:Inwa1diOn5GkmOio7oYChW rYRm3p+JFXG4ULObejgD2WkYhQgqfeSsLjIjGDYuDjn+WeWcdH6sglxex/mhzuYYGw3jrxBZd xzPFJNkocgr6NPsT9szWThw/KRrpnqfKdcD/d1G3H2jaQ0jKakkTH3CXpb4FORSqFnUC6p0vf kXy7Yj8nNO0gtLT7HZIPv7MMhJ2oLhOLwn/6vN5xoOaA8u7jELKVsnKTvLsOrR0VRy6s4eOn7 IeYdUGMKXhkVVAWQKPlucoD56hDTbgugVS53b607lkrsJwhd6pl2+8CUI6QoP6LePrMHDPjf4 7Suzhkxs0Jt/wKuWbLVY+EEA7eK2kTSQpMn8z25Q/l+0Zr0Ejob5oi9+WqCLsPjIxYb/yokJv 7vzL9V7tBiYqr7qnk1+mjI8GeEyA3bk9HfvgcQvQ72j+WojcrDLbmPPa+oaYjJU6k4DOVT2BY g9T6PjChec5QWL3blcRbDrefbARVT5U37A9tJ5qBnQPKmeFgJbrSUnnHU0Y1sipQq16/1nNGP 35BU2+BfuCp+PIiOZZkwDhI2yqQfWu68qYRtrQFru4jSnCg5Ork1YZxqyB5Q4nQlOPXdKw1sW WV5WV89oV2cAvDNx1cNjmeiCb0Ahdvedj/JDZIzChI2O2DNDCnGosX4RZwnHAcIqvpO78XXr4 2vpKWjPi1sAncQXR0u66rrN6isrR2hMHow6MKwNeeVLLu2rz8gUOcwhxDSmpttKcaxMFia9Sg IPUv6RlMRHOa6aHOXYxTgMkUy2zgAkvI5B6FjYPJ0dzc0jAS04YpNpfu+cytblHGXTcTkepPt b0aZdlv39scVbieHu718yaQj3JuisZuK1odyFvkAthn9rLuiSLN1vJ01a0QZnoe+2e5jutUYe +2Qw6dNN9jccGCgUjPrxYIq+FUVj+Hux6+v+Qm0pF46qYa8IsVgaOj9Wau4Wpe7E5sQLRAxmE PdVtpf38xB9C33AarlYqnFxWC6pXWJKbz0FGJOP7mI1zW49i2qUzmvY/j042lVV1IamDUXInS 6TYSobGHSFzw5bMEfrT0jl6KyJ9Kt5emTEGkS9g5L9dKyKo+vt12zGzCrlx/tvRkuI0apXqsm vx7ZwIiWNy/boPCjuDEN0VqV9Os3KNTOIQNyrzwxecmD35Wz6br4RAd1w== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:17:30 -0000 Am 14.06.2021 um 16:09 schrieb Michael Richardson: > ... > But, as I said, I xml2rfc doesn't have a useful include functionality, f= or > when not working with kramdown. > ... Could you be a bit more specific? (there's , no?) Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Jun 14 07:26:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55F83A2641 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:26:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gq_lMkjQ_Ogd for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb35.google.com (mail-yb1-xb35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 625173A2643 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb35.google.com with SMTP id p15so528894ybe.6 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:26:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=grLmDeK0hSV2QKd9E/7YQEPVzqrHcPHnSf4+SwCQ0qA=; b=FHCzkP0Jf365dzXdZX88ho+29YBRtaeVcK9SEUP7/yczpF3PKqSRw/lSB8VMz5DK/E rP2aFN5MjgjQfSQou4qz+m4Rbu57T9Vkkaz2zX6YOoovINsytbfGqSMDdldRUsNJZKHD MSTDJhhqD491bXsVqY45nwt0G5ndkVpDd11QuZedlHEOfraijcO8w+t/JzSEAaJvurKC w+HhcwRxRMKQzM8pI6t8z4g/TCEtCOWgd13jGOT/UJ83VUU4SJERjDjbQb5pSDvETQZD +Uo7TSIIFszw1V0finuPRuUeYVYpkaqTNlrizhdkrqUoGGK9/LM1P+mSachuS1fVTrWP CYvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=grLmDeK0hSV2QKd9E/7YQEPVzqrHcPHnSf4+SwCQ0qA=; b=Q06rEIqHvkl4J/hAjySj+JOxG9NJc2I5iPPc8sKgN6xSgkqsR74x20AR1XsMnpuxaV 0peuxvHtbf/64JIJpeWVFKkGsLjJ4KGx0b3vwDDsUy8FlO29eQ5zPisoErnMDKOdBstl 8mcxhwEWRns/VclmFBSw/HbHLP9I6GEQRrJ5IgrD75jzUreoOHPblzyj43vJh93ynIsL urtyZ3rb15bqfoxPtCbOWq5zsMJGMTisDfQ5tXnXbSmczzj87nUBtSEWIOBwZPS5imJl bN1HbnZLlffua7tr5TNCqNojbB/ymnqV2jhSLVkqILRT0gRc8ri5IJklIPLm69b5nvfj fR8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531yo7TCblJ1bHmf10xORZlcUNWqMQte7b8O1MpO90o9ul6jLak3 Ptggtebal5fUqrl9JUJSpIhfZVUshqHX8a/OtZeKMCLhVPzHpQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyCTeq4TYl2f9Z2p0qV5n3sGqMQyfrSI2D1Mk6v4yN/I3el5qTl8fbYH1m7wDMh0/8hrk8/zo2kUdYOYt56uVY= X-Received: by 2002:a25:2b05:: with SMTP id r5mr25109903ybr.465.1623680798561; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:26:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:26:12 -0500 Message-ID: To: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003a19b305c4baa592" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:26:44 -0000 --0000000000003a19b305c4baa592 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I've read the discussion(s) about page numbers in current RFCs but I have a semi-related question. I've been spoiled by a decade or so of looking at the table of contents in the HTML for I-Ds and RFCs, and clicking on a link that takes me to the section of interest. For example, I can do this from the table of contents in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7418. I am now noticing that we're publishing HTML versions that don't have page numbers in the table of contents (makes sense because there are no page numbers in these documents, but also don't have clickable links to the sections themselves. For example, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866. Is this intentional? Was it previously discussed? I would be less confused if I couldn't see HTML fragments in the HTML file, so I can go directly to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866#section-3.4 if I can remember how to construct that link as a URL, but I don't see how to click on something in the document that will take me there. I would be MUCH less confused if I couldn't see sections in the document that are linking directly to other sections (see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866#section-5, which has a link to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866#section-6.10, although the table of contents does not. . I guess what I'm asking is, if the rest of the document can link directly to a section, why can't the table of contents? Best, Spencer --0000000000003a19b305c4baa592 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've read the discussion(s) about page numbers in curr= ent RFCs but I have a semi-related question.=C2=A0

I'= ;ve been spoiled by a decade or so of looking at the table of contents in t= he HTML for I-Ds and RFCs, and clicking on a link that takes me to the sect= ion of interest. For example, I can do this from the table of contents in <= a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7418">https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7418.

I am now noticing= that we're publishing HTML versions that don't have page numbers i= n the table of contents (makes sense because there are no page numbers in t= hese documents, but also don't have clickable links to the sections the= mselves. For example,=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866.

=
Is this intentional? Was it previously discussed?

=
I would be less confused if I couldn't see HTML fragments in= the HTML file, so I can go directly to=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht= ml/rfc8866#section-3.4 if I can remember how to construct that link as = a URL, but I don't see how to click on something in the document that w= ill take me there.=C2=A0

I would be MUCH less conf= used if I couldn't see sections in the document that are linking direct= ly to other sections (see=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866#secti= on-5, which has a link to=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc886= 6#section-6.10, although the table of contents does not. .=C2=A0
<= div>
I guess what I'm asking is, if the rest of the docum= ent can link directly to a section, why can't the table of contents?

Best,

Spencer



--0000000000003a19b305c4baa592-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 07:41:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26F33A26CE for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ioPVjZB4OcXR for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 418F03A26CD for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:41:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623681681; bh=Pn4Mk+1HtCnPGGp8KtYZbAVki1PBiRQnClCtxl3JqA0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=MR79cBCZ9SZMCHaJU1Gmf5siNNbQPREE8bpLYWEqCvw1E/0DvCF15q6fem6W24rF0 EKzjn/C8sU8ComkI2cc2yoyrhCceSQR+u98tz0mkLp56kj37ypEKdYPD5Bl+YK+gNT sEZG0EFbTOJ07R6IIjKXGy8VdnuN7iYlRLujCFQ0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.236] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M6Ue3-1lz8Uy0CzZ-006xP6 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:41:21 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:41:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:6QRJtmHxqgybAWLTK/YnObPHpJBjY3EU0soywzHYEv4lKJRSU2k 0WXJ4VXe4RKsn9WMGaCOnhueynVPziycimiFkrveyE3LUvXnt1IPYwjdm84L1tOjhhQGJJx HsVSmG2dFUX6xYPAgdcDXj1omsiANOIg6L5WlBPyRTnIcNAfdBa3lWxirX9H3svLeP6JKvZ gFctRX2xX8AjtuAsmupKA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:KQYkKobIcik=:LnLei6ok2S6xdfORv/mF6y tLb4MYkcEyT+g0UKQhJcZhqmALbjiyEUu6VH92dBPlDqOnCx41dmAf5pFGR26YNLGV/JlaPNS XqIUPYN/QLgY/G+TUAvHN7RX1yeVhrkugGfp/JwB2fZtfU3fhxQE/wbRK/7R6VBt4GjQ8ip67 /afgJ073l5LgcNG4Wf0IlkF2wIi2zlI27y/MFhPBk9uidfVDQEaJoCnE4qqmNb5JMA64wF4Fp FC6Bu8MX/7/oBGIKLo6IRDqdbiMsmJh7HNfYu7D02iqW5O+xsz3kVWVXgY4AAxCLhjTnoKx69 EtrydP/DWUYftHwCAl1FLi8DgCwLx5FfWrPD4EbXhTXCS7rbe4PgRBxVJbRoQlP5JdGm7pZYd qKHDx9Uiv0TEcd3DxDF4iKBnTA5Rpf35o1EdrSKoIW7Vxbe8xHLGaaxSo3Q4EFgwr/0jkRnGQ xKswMAi3z+xUWbCFvQik5iAkVsLKd5H910xsxCHY5o17gfcyxYei48xIlcDcN9WqOk0yVJze6 1jI8qXUGJbLP78RH80xjpKO2RxCB/+KNzI8w8kiw7QzqnSCTclYZ1sIExmaCzGhSci/i9lfB5 7PLtPrk1pFGyNCGXbISWTUyEmwxSBm17Kuv+CnyVJauLBMDRIr9XfEd7KsJfBd4QVx5mDNSdb KFVwYNWzzN6y/++RfkjZssmEAcmtOxb55LwDHsE/gtmINTQ9Wyn6+cP+FITFeKTFrdF+4qwra 1lcJTUmQ6/OJkKfaWFwCphYk9yPwo7p+zakdJahNykbT3ckfN2ayhikjc0ztd+qqbktdEWndA 8vZVh3YQVcSf26GfYgsx5wEqsLXK0H9x9PZ3e/nU2iT8v5zDKdEqbm46HrBh0r26vgAjO8S/j DJ4ArMPoLESm1oB+2nIzZNNy3qkBineca6jD8RkV6kjW+Fu1FowzJUqpGAEmRGNVWgik3DOJA 8fjfdAc2BcCW4OB0nbBVvV2+HVZQGAU3IRi/tzOzg7qw2NZSjhEx3ErABqJrmwbh4w3qa0e2r T8v/0gIlvzyqeh+dPVGtlZGk69XClndYNNlfemZrbipAIF70RJbj2NTw9ymUEW3EiYzlbXimS FVjcjVZC7QNUQIaMi52bYNR9F5FSYzVrZYoHSS4JFUg88C2FryBpDVn3g== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:41:29 -0000 Am 14.06.2021 um 16:26 schrieb Spencer Dawkins at IETF: > I've read the discussion(s) about page numbers in current RFCs but I > have a semi-related question. > > I've been spoiled by a decade or so of looking at the table of contents > in the HTML for I-Ds and RFCs, and clicking on a link that takes me to > the section of interest. For example, I can do this from the table of > contents in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7418 > . > > I am now noticing that we're publishing HTML versions that don't have > page numbers in the table of contents (makes sense because there are no > page numbers in these documents, but also don't have clickable links to > the sections themselves. For example, > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866 > . > > Is this intentional? Was it previously discussed? There is which is the "official" HTML, and that has working links. What you're looking at is the "htmlized" version, based on the plain text version. That stopped to create links as the plain text version doesn't have page numbers in the toc. To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated. > ... Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Jun 14 08:02:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618433A27C2; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GWUqQPDZ2fUO; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 883303A27AC; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G3ZRr6BYJz2xGR; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:02:16 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <16776.1623679777@localhost> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:02:16 +0200 Cc: anima@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645375736.406337-96927f24cec31a4d1e4e51c805b6ccc7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1CA387C6-6058-46DC-882B-BCBEB848FE7B@tzi.org> References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:02:44 -0000 > One possibility is that kramdown-rfc ought to look for, and include = the > latest foo-YYYY-MM-DD.yang file, when told to ::include foo.yang. > Alternatively, it could perhaps do the YYYY-MM-DD substitution itself. How about {::include foo-????-??-??.yang} and, if there is no such file, kramdown-rfc expands the wild card in the = directory and uses the numerically latest file? (There might also be a use-case for actually including all these files, = so I=E2=80=99m still in thinking mode, but I think this is close.) > for when not working with kramdown. What? :-) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jun 14 08:08:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26AD43A2777 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:08:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qdt4smh5wg3f for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6A0F3A2773 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.34.206]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 15EF7ui6069818 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:07:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1623683277; bh=DnpK13h8VWmiHnSrutJ0rT6z7Sqr7MI7vicH9xS/RCs=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=lCkBj23f4/78hruyd5Elmux00Ew9gz8X2cpe5RmHToY28MZeqKwisLAwMVSYIUpCE Nf+Aegrn7Rl3a/fpS1s7QvWn5eIQP7MDOYjSCzs/q+MTe8BiY/LzIGH15deeXBuvlZ R8Zfes3YBNrrcUN96VwFOHXrNFu4RxdPpUNkowPo= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.34.206] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <0a04b872-3e86-37ff-9492-1cec04c256bb@petit-huguenin.org> <6A5B5F2B-DC29-4C87-AA68-9EA425997457@tzi.org> <0a6c5d2a-8371-6fad-d394-73d8fb1687e8@petit-huguenin.org> <4D3A5E2E-F649-4BA4-9002-A8E94F16BF50@tzi.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <357531b6-8e01-4741-c54a-b8585fae4ac7@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:07:51 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4D3A5E2E-F649-4BA4-9002-A8E94F16BF50@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source repo for xml2rfc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:08:05 -0000 It certainly wasn't an intentional omission, but was a place that broke=20 in the transition to releasing from the new repository location I believe I found the spot that caused that to fail to go out, and will=20 watch to make sure that the next release succeeds in sending those messag= es. RjS On 6/12/21 11:32 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-06-12, at 18:30, Marc Petit-Huguenin = wrote: >> Looking at the history I see that it was updated with version 3.8.0, b= ut I cannot find an announce at the usual places for that new version. I= s that accidental, our should I stop counting on a new version announce t= o rebase my copy? > Indeed, I can=E2=80=99t find the announcement at the usual places (roc-= markdown, xml2rfc, xml2rfc-dev). I=E2=80=99d assume that was an omission= =2E > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.= org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Mon Jun 14 08:37:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6C33A2848; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:37:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.232 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.232 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HIToMUOvZkyP; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (minerva.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2a01:7e00::3d:b000]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8584F3A2847; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (unknown [142.169.78.190]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ABF41F456; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:36:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 49E3E1A293E; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:36:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann , netmod@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org In-reply-to: References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> Comments: In-reply-to Carsten Bormann message dated "Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:36:05 +0200." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 26.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:36:53 -0400 Message-ID: <73347.1623685013@dooku> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:37:05 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 14. Jun 2021, at 03:09, Michael Richardson > wrote: >>=20 >> 1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML. 2) how to >> generate yang tree files. 3) how do I get my YANG includes >> downloaded, and do I put them into my repo? 4) how to do this with = MT >> Makefiles? > I people could tell me what they need, we could develop a feature in > kramdown-rfc to handle this. (This would presumably also include > support for YANG-SID files.) But, part of the question is, how does one do this with just XML. As wonderful as kramdown is, and it's always my preference, sometimes it is hard to convince a design team that has started on XML to go that way. (sunk cost fallacy, etc.) I looked at Kent's XIAX repo documentation, and what I saw was that it might take XML as input, paste the YANG in, but leave enough meta-data in the XML= so that the XML can be processed again. So this is an in-place edit. I worry that such a workflow would be confusing to some authors who might edit in the wrong place. Kent, I didn't look extensively at that repo you said to clone. As to editing in YIN, which is an XML syntax way to represent YANG.... well... I don't mind if someone wants to store YANG that way, but I sure don't want to edit that way. So at this point, the best I can do is to bring my "insert-figures" hack in= to a repo, rename the XML to another name, and generate draft-foobar.xml in the top-Makefile. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAmDHd5QACgkQlUzhVv38 QpCZuAf9FHyv0a2iMvPSTrOLhp1OIiDIIm8GfOBPd1xxc4zugnXcDxC9VHiebSuJ w1n/3XHbneKJeaVd/CUbrHWbCHmIOE+gKS21Bqtkqofen+k0+adZdClBXoMqc/2B VxTmAKb4ymUMHHWwnnDg5hlT6OPcyzyvCltuA8g0gmZLdJLGdi+tEjUZQqHMArT8 KLVyYmkVFU2/nI5DIAtmLfSQQEyIem8OlQEjZT0CxkGUCYR2SSO+2tQR99JLU+zu rCWZ6EZ97v+6LnP8HPiMRY+ISWnWnAQ9BlS23CvJ9g2nH/OlEUBPtZXlEAjJtYUe GT+73Jcl4oeMrNDc20VqFj/9ivQvpw== =CpWQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 08:47:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4ED3A28A5 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:47:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mI21yonh2ZnP for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BC003A28A3 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.34.206]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 15EFlX8Q083315 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:47:33 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1623685653; bh=gw8UbMszO5kOINfjXjTjfujJaNYiA7NNF/cd6QbB2lc=; h=Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=BADnMmDkbrtb7otyuQ9NWMRoMQvxbfJuz3vHgfZgEGdxZoPFe89ZHBml9SgBRgiQT 0LAr4rpIy1RZdAvMRl8dv5enq72HmQuvObZX54Zg1oGJycCfZFl5OWeN1Fa4vQxirc xTV4WGrEsPNWwlHJPKnCGE5zzcu6rzqjrV6tElmY= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.34.206] claimed to be unformal.localdomain From: Robert Sparks To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <0a04b872-3e86-37ff-9492-1cec04c256bb@petit-huguenin.org> <6A5B5F2B-DC29-4C87-AA68-9EA425997457@tzi.org> <0a6c5d2a-8371-6fad-d394-73d8fb1687e8@petit-huguenin.org> <4D3A5E2E-F649-4BA4-9002-A8E94F16BF50@tzi.org> <357531b6-8e01-4741-c54a-b8585fae4ac7@nostrum.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:47:27 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <357531b6-8e01-4741-c54a-b8585fae4ac7@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source repo for xml2rfc X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:47:39 -0000 I also just reran the part of the script that sent that mail, so the message is in the archives, even if a bit late. On 6/14/21 10:07 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: > It certainly wasn't an intentional omission, but was a place that > broke in the transition to releasing from the new repository location > > I believe I found the spot that caused that to fail to go out, and > will watch to make sure that the next release succeeds in sending > those messages. > > RjS > > > On 6/12/21 11:32 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On 2021-06-12, at 18:30, Marc Petit-Huguenin >> wrote: >>> Looking at the history I see that it was updated with version 3.8.0, >>> but I cannot find an announce at the usual places for that new >>> version.  Is that accidental, our should I stop counting on a new >>> version announce to rebase my copy? >> Indeed, I can’t find the announcement at the usual places >> (roc-markdown, xml2rfc, xml2rfc-dev).  I’d assume that was an omission. >> >> Grüße, Carsten >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: >> datatracker-project@ietf.org >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > From nobody Mon Jun 14 08:57:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31973A28F4; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:57:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y-CqFS0jQXo8; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A807E3A28EF; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G3bg36wPqz2xGV; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:57:03 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <73347.1623685013@dooku> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:57:03 +0200 Cc: netmod@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645379023.395463-411fa978bdf2c1252e12286f1d8b4ae1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <43902CCE-95BC-49FD-8637-2D975B364E82@tzi.org> References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <73347.1623685013@dooku> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:57:12 -0000 I can=E2=80=99t help you with your dark desires to use XML, but I would = propose the following fix for that: =E2=80=94 use xi:include or src=3D for the XML source (I forget which = one works), with a static name =E2=80=94 simply generate a symlink from the most recent .yang to the = static name in the Makefile =E2=80=94 use --expand for generating the submission XML. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jun 14 09:15:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8183A298B for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:15:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Js_S--_u5a0G for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70ED53A2988 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (unknown [142.169.78.190]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C8671F456; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:15:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 1193A1A293E; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:15:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Julian Reschke cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-reply-to: References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> Comments: In-reply-to Julian Reschke message dated "Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:17:20 +0200." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 26.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:15:12 -0400 Message-ID: <76185.1623687312@dooku> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:15:23 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julian Reschke wrote: > Am 14.06.2021 um 16:09 schrieb Michael Richardson: >> ... But, as I said, I xml2rfc doesn't have a useful include >> functionality, for when not working with kramdown. ... > Could you be a bit more specific? (there's > , > no?) Thank you for this clue/breadcrumb. As I understand, I'd have to render the YANG to XML, i.e. at least wrap it = in and CDATA, and then having put xmlns:xi=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001= /XInclude" in the directive, can I now do a relative href? well... let me try this. Hmm. There is a typo here on RFC7991, it should be "xi:include", right? Okay, so this seems to work.
my MT Makefile now includes: YANGDATE=3D2021-05-29 VRDATE=3Dyang/ietf-async-voucher-request@${YANGDATE}.yang ietf-async-voucher-request-tree.txt: ${VRDATE} pyang --path=3Dyang -f tree --tree-print-groupings ${VRDATE} > $@ ${VRDATE}: ietf-async-voucher-request.yang mkdir -p yang sed -e"s/YYYY-MM-DD/${YANGDATE}/" ietf-async-voucher-request.yang > ${VRDA= TE} ${VRDATE}.xml: ${VRDATE} (echo '') >${VRDATE}.xml I'm not sure how to add ${VRDATE}.xml as a dependancy to the .xml file so that it is produced. I think that I need to add to drafts_source in lib/id.mk, but I don't see a way to do that. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAmDHgI8ACgkQlUzhVv38 QpCSSwgAgaMs2aFK5Eu+3osz5SYPt3nBRt8njpBX06RzD2qDNdua790lQy+gs3GI envNN4jgo2WBJSeu00rdxZHXFmiKEiY8ZmYvqel0BBr6I1hlz8CPCFNfqNK1cq4D GZH1QL2ApElnvM5qRQ80prsCWmIpWuGPLAFE1fD1jSkRwY9ns6WGnHyOPNWJZnxw 9yY5v+yneDtFR4Men6JwG5A5pfpOWb84jQHAvMe+EhzhfUJlJAToA0TVHfQtSVET Fhr1pSJi1bzuxZnmDIYkGw2gLf3fdJUqli8TBdLf8ho4pUTxXXWCQ2QwLzDC8/Jb FPeBbv4X5knGPb7y49+nUsG6IbLTyg== =dG92 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 09:26:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390883A29CA; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:26:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.835 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.835 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.398, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AenTT3mY7HpE; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (minerva.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2a01:7e00::3d:b000]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DDEF3A29C4; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (unknown [142.169.78.190]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 679661F456; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:26:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id F2FCE1A293E; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:26:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann , anima@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org In-reply-to: <1CA387C6-6058-46DC-882B-BCBEB848FE7B@tzi.org> References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> <1CA387C6-6058-46DC-882B-BCBEB848FE7B@tzi.org> Comments: In-reply-to Carsten Bormann message dated "Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:02:16 +0200." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 26.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:26:18 -0400 Message-ID: <77018.1623687978@dooku> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:26:27 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: >> One possibility is that kramdown-rfc ought to look for, and include >> the latest foo-YYYY-MM-DD.yang file, when told to ::include foo.yang. >> Alternatively, it could perhaps do the YYYY-MM-DD substitution itsel= f. cb> How about cb> {::include foo-????-??-??.yang} cb> and, if there is no such file, kramdown-rfc expands the wild card in cb> the directory and uses the numerically latest file? You'd use shell globs? I think it might be better to use PCRE. It might be better to have this as "winclude" cb> (There might also be a use-case for actually including all these cb> files, so I=E2=80=99m still in thinking mode, but I think this is c= lose.) >> for when not working with kramdown. cb> What? :-) Yes, it causes me confusion too. Basically, I'm trying to contribute YANG modules (as pull-requests) to draf= ts for which I'm not an author, and I don't really want to have to convince th= em to upgrade. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAmDHgyoACgkQlUzhVv38 QpArNgf+P4lJTqC+4r4keQdMWy18Duv0rtX3pnsrUN94koUAkmW9D6WrmncBchIC fEyhgn7dobYPmEYxvKDiUbwXjwwkJdPr0WH0Ezzn4+0855sc/F5Yh1Id0B724zB0 UBuYbuwgO7utXXzVc6Eb5jyMJfiOMKSb9/3kVNunaBfbtbmPTCj2XOSXPY5lAJu7 YM8wOeZaydyR5PjQjTmD3y+lYIezgEQk/bPeZF63EyCM63QjZsLqUwi2UgfKKvLA BSAKmca/zHF8PPuZk6gV6WrA+yORcp82VyuuX/81rMJLiCYv+tIFt+Lg0F9M0gLr GmriXYowOAzgI2t3eaK3TQYCFZCJDw== =lt9d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 09:29:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262C43A29E3 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:29:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.698, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QlynBnQpzrNe for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B5FA3A2A13 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050095.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050095.ppops.net-00190b01. 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.32) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:29:31 -0000 TmV0bW9kIGFuZCBhbmltYSBtb3ZlZCB0byBiY2MuDQoNCj4gICAgWW91J2QgdXNlIHNoZWxsIGds b2JzPw0KICAgIEkgdGhpbmsgaXQgbWlnaHQgYmUgYmV0dGVyIHRvIHVzZSBQQ1JFLg0KICANCkhv cnJpYmxlIGlkZWEgdG8gdXNlIFBDUkUgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiBnbG9icy4NCg0KDQo= From nobody Mon Jun 14 09:30:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0C33A2A18; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:30:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zUcPmTPjLRoq; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F7803A2A30; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G3cNv75YQz2xFl; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:29:51 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <77018.1623687978@dooku> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:29:51 +0200 Cc: anima@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645380991.372005-ff9ca5730f593e22c641e6770cccfa47 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> <1CA387C6-6058-46DC-882B-BCBEB848FE7B@tzi.org> <77018.1623687978@dooku> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:30:05 -0000 On 2021-06-14, at 18:26, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > cb> How about >=20 > cb> {::include foo-????-??-??.yang} >=20 > cb> and, if there is no such file, kramdown-rfc expands the wild = card in > cb> the directory and uses the numerically latest file? >=20 > You'd use shell globs? Yes. Any need to go beyond that? > I think it might be better to use PCRE. Much more typing and backslash-mangling, and I don=E2=80=99t see the use = case. > It might be better to have this as "winclude" So =E2=80=98loseclude=E2=80=99 would be including all matches? (What does the =E2=80=9Cw=E2=80=9D stand for?) > cb> (There might also be a use-case for actually including all = these > cb> files, so I=E2=80=99m still in thinking mode, but I think this = is close.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jun 14 09:37:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B37BA3A2A36 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BEuP1nz5Qf-a for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 384FB3A2A28 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:37:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623688654; bh=Al30G+0jxIbcJTCp15+RTe29iDGAughBzWQ6M8r6ILY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=J+HlToxpLHGRVlH8rO4kFefR46CQnEDTs5AR+8uC0+MazX3QJswYvBoi7i/aYr5tx s3Ug6yNkhB/Z1cJRqirMX6DXDum2ULtj2QYbLuT/4F6eO3xLgJTHeikZQuLWrh9Z0k qE+Qk2mhLzIwKZSgJ9UcavWLNj5Eln6qWSxjHjCY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.58.190]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N8ob6-1lDZ162pkM-015otr; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:37:34 +0200 To: Michael Richardson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> <76185.1623687312@dooku> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:37:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <76185.1623687312@dooku> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:I95s0jE65yrIb77TcjYwKFptJwQlduHmF8rfps6Q2J879oDOnDZ +5WYgwENRozh8pYUcPQY/MG3KdvX6A014ZcBThtMy1uQsn6tPrhGwzz7ZMhwNbC9rL4q1/a 84e6r9TaQij2HqigBCe3nbIcuBBwZkNFYyZ0GlTX0JOI03nCBbKoXqFlpILLD/IUPzc+h64 z+Djzu/WCLdxodemBryCA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:DWHx1AfGwjU=:Nafasg5cqQ/lo4UPEgDOxG wnKPrg5AgLT/TiQesLSvX4Mo0YlHbPrADkgfXteJXKm8oj3JVV8vv6lXduDLZLX6qHxLl1y0A lId3SqmlUvznsqwkvW1ZP4JVh1CFpsnnpOBRgfgq0vWD7u8XTyUqujKvsOMBmscGZ66tAKcAV kypEZ0g9bDtc0P7mqyilwLvRQOdP1vWWmlRxUhCIN3k00YtEFo51/th8B1rjbKesgROMRGktp qzubuIIP4NqlmypUdSNlK9nrGhOaLh1AMQbb74K+KJR4E4IPpwa/0SBo2iDgEX2oj9cW5mLFY 6eh+JIOf7CJDJQlIIrFQX1EoQ5AM/JHyLc/y4fHimbINbPFXMdta8fbhfnT75qw9vGu9JZ7nB T+E/Zf1JbHpz1n9ZcoVntgsBNIBX63j4lXLE5Cli0Y3qUOaONE2rejI1hJkJMFqzlvVdSc++O M/mX5fmt94dkmKBQBcErV/sf8YgdTD5jMb1T2Qeh3TmiBholjlG5ceFFo/hGWTJ0uON2EOlfs tLlDkAMBXKyDVeDmc/Wr24d9CdcyfSL+EElBkHa42z2hyJU+k6cy+Op9jKQ2ppmqHWRBPz1y3 q5aMh6ya1lqschw7yjtPXEnt0fhjwwkarEb13Qnz4WwtScChZE3q/CXKw16XcKc1/YuRPetSU OCp6bM3QIQzME7oBs1/vyviBi+LCDEOtSS3t/G8DsRNAm6PsIw5BiAjV8OpHvZWKhSL6uix2P o0AQ4voIbSPFFMzGYXEvDrX+V6uylKCAcksvfbGtMaQ4kCEhI2cfC0OdDLtsLaTVXTd3VtdP9 THHiF8V3AvW3SxHi8SxbugU2Wkd71Jm5f+p6ORV6XGR61/irhYatHA7eY9+D1l6Wj2fQO/yO8 da2njtNXPPi6M/SFRKGLHqxKnKN20VGsaten4KYpgDkJSRnbdBVcsR377xeW5X7o4hOUkQrDD 7k5YtlGdA5yUzsrJcGV1IajDneA52XYFZr/9KemNRGnib2B3MvgPrPbstsCkx1+9Cd9O3D/Y/ 1rp4fp+pjyDX+s6AiwzIGbkXi42X5w2vP0Uwzr2rNmXnZIMs1g9dkDqdd1tQUp5ZC9IqGQd1Q 6qK+bNkbjA6DF8T7iNelNwm9iM9HKS9MPVWvbu+PlSOacSSl1EFrZZL8w== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:37:49 -0000 Am 14.06.2021 um 18:15 schrieb Michael Richardson: > > Julian Reschke wrote: > > Am 14.06.2021 um 16:09 schrieb Michael Richardson: > >> ... But, as I said, I xml2rfc doesn't have a useful include > >> functionality, for when not working with kramdown. ... > > > Could you be a bit more specific? (there's > > , > > no?) > > Thank you for this clue/breadcrumb. > As I understand, I'd have to render the YANG to XML, i.e. at least wrap = it in > and CDATA, and then having put xmlns:xi=3D"http://www.w3.org/2= 001/XInclude" > in the directive, can I now do a relative href? > > > > well... let me try this. Hmm. There is a typo here on RFC7991, it shoul= d be > "xi:include", right? > Okay, so this seems to work. > >
> >
> > my MT Makefile now includes: > > YANGDATE=3D2021-05-29 > VRDATE=3Dyang/ietf-async-voucher-request@${YANGDATE}.yang > > ietf-async-voucher-request-tree.txt: ${VRDATE} > pyang --path=3Dyang -f tree --tree-print-groupings ${VRDATE} > $@ > > ${VRDATE}: ietf-async-voucher-request.yang > mkdir -p yang > sed -e"s/YYYY-MM-DD/${YANGDATE}/" ietf-async-voucher-request.yang > ${V= RDATE} > > ${VRDATE}.xml: ${VRDATE} > (echo '') >${VRDATE}.xm= l The following might work as well:
Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Jun 14 09:39:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFBC3A2A1A for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:39:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0teDo98X_nEG for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 071483A2A87 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623688779; bh=tWjuxVspLbwrtc8St5aQf6gZp7JLH5T024bhcZye+Vo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=MYVDm66nRoN14bcfOuSNWUAcbyprOwYho6K+NcqsEUr96NhWvqR1aAHtghzd/JdGx Gx7XOC+SLkqQmTZPuXplKLpN+wzoGJSG5DYpB0LAzG3uuPp4jJF4JwGITlV1BNN6p0 0MCLnJe/PS37wTKr8ukJ6eCC7qK3Q5JnPQoJN/HU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.58.190]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MPokD-1letNR3ObL-00MpKE for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:39:38 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <73347.1623685013@dooku> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <9a28e3df-0427-db47-984d-b0262f25d4ff@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:39:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <73347.1623685013@dooku> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:J20US4eigtmhh07Q5EOKQEHWsElGlYOHrNYvA0og6IOD6QxicQY LVtIRljYHoRSCOtMVXyV1vrUd4GXnR9T77Al4uDNnYMyIaV4sRHHh0M3RSeAicO/bfdQFVo rNY999PJQHRRe7PRHEY4HhI/dYtGoTKvLTOA74G/7QaScMmAZrU1ly6PXlSkYxWmIuyKxXf 4jTr6oP2oTMrq4ZjOAFjg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ly7BwHaOREw=:gBvXK+hekiWkVnTtjONupx sM79FJ7q2WcDCbhswIcMCGT5Lig5d+3JoZOh/O5d29044GAPdAFWBgRW0r2E3IcFu0GYAauaM UCu16W2HtcFcI0VA3k+SQAWKoAdupp/VnYUpFbJGfF2JmNYXYmXpr/Af2Ll12/BOOkZu8vqZu jZ9v/z8fExcOJWBaPxnlT0Bz1cz02Em4zqjWJzA3Nnh3h6JhcrXKqD4vUcUVBfrFosU90dfzH c2Xd3BSYRhrXYgy9vQh/Ooox+BIyoL4qBvhjjJF5FCvZZVWtx0wGXhnURijMF454chFdMRhyA qL8b+zwcr1ZgHg8Ll1IGzOjdvNczse3SaZHq9JLiufBjx4G7ubQaIfDrjErrm03AhUeHxA493 9b1EbQfrCMHbrVu9Yb56IpovWd2JO8+hXhIBLXDi9KxrB8YtS/cFBSV4BtRXH/ZKldWnmFDpX n+L2GxKNOs0e+jJ2avcJgLwrHGfAAjKJI2qOK+kE+yuEApyoq+C61sHcOmlysLPx5VqcfkdGv OLigpfEUzExFGo5DBSKvM5OB1AxrGM3l3WmGpiLknkklRl0xcHo6AKxpcFPH9O4Ym1b/rHvLa hfGzMxijSQuuW8i9Lr3uMpf8Gx3xrKULEPrsKRJhtxUIzLQnRCbudqACTTvc/tiCzp0O/6qs6 N1nFcPKeb643vVcDELAVjAY2XWPiB1Bol7sdOEkAskQZm9a4wLU/FqqaNiLF1oLSZf3y2IiXC BD5Vx+8D0KqOFdcrFxrOqhIume+SGrojSPVcgLzUFdbaG7sYo2oipoKc80nc0/qtJjxty34OO zHcv0/w7TQ0d57scUZqjzM/+uJC6Hc0CNlZmnpc59vg4mNhbMpLVkn0XcR5KEj+OMlH2bP9t2 nG1bFcxkcHJHUo29k0+xfa07GkFxKSO3aD7MPksyyyeBDiPt20CL+UB794i+mjuUDEXBxkGvK SiJwQfGMzo/xWSEEjvqiQBfj1sfb4OMEq4avVLz05My0n8P0gZKqEgzp4cc1f9gB3MMDs5aUR 5YHiST2FizdZm5e1KIg2fLxrJRVVopJT65lCNNLNAVMEuMqtyyFY/mj8XnWjfNAbcnKuAgWkK ViOqPDEE/BRmRwFt0GEFICsGIa4QHj/h8jfHoRA+IGHIEhyfG7fiBxl8A== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:39:50 -0000 Am 14.06.2021 um 17:36 schrieb Michael Richardson: > > Carsten Bormann wrote: > > On 14. Jun 2021, at 03:09, Michael Richardson > > wrote: > >> > >> 1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML. 2) how t= o > >> generate yang tree files. 3) how do I get my YANG includes > >> downloaded, and do I put them into my repo? 4) how to do this w= ith MT > >> Makefiles? > > > I people could tell me what they need, we could develop a feature= in > > kramdown-rfc to handle this. (This would presumably also include > > support for YANG-SID files.) > > But, part of the question is, how does one do this with just XML. > As wonderful as kramdown is, and it's always my preference, sometimes it= is > hard to convince a design team that has started on XML to go that way. > (sunk cost fallacy, etc.) > > I looked at Kent's XIAX repo documentation, and what I saw was that it m= ight > take XML as input, paste the YANG in, but leave enough meta-data in the = XML so that > the XML can be processed again. So this is an in-place edit. I worry t= hat > such a workflow would be confusing to some authors who might edit in the > wrong place. > ... This: Might be helpful. Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Jun 14 09:41:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C19EF3A2A43 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:41:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EsMPHZgIdaMX for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D6AC3A2A3C for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405F654806A; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:40:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 38F104E776E; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:40:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:40:59 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: "Salz, Rich" Cc: Michael Richardson , Carsten Bormann , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , wgchairs@ietf.or Message-ID: <20210614164059.GJ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> <1CA387C6-6058-46DC-882B-BCBEB848FE7B@tzi.org> <77018.1623687978@dooku> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Bcc sucks (was: Re: [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:41:09 -0000 Rich / tools-discuss / wgchairs: I don't think moving mailing lists to Bcc works. Now i had to approve your mail on the anima mailing list because it was Bcc. I don' think this is sustainable use of WG chair time (approving emails). Actually at a loss as what to recommend, because i fell into that Bcc trap myself as well. I actually think Bcc should be allowed on mailing lists because it does help quite a bit to cut down on cross-posting. Short of it, i am not doing Bcc, but setting "Reply-to: " to the target mailing list. Not sure if that by itself is equally good. Cheers Toerless On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 04:28:41PM +0000, Salz, Rich wrote: > Netmod and anima moved to bcc. > > > You'd use shell globs? > I think it might be better to use PCRE. > > Horrible idea to use PCRE instead of globs. > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Jun 14 09:43:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80A983A2A62 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:43:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KbKTak6VoScg for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 372E03A2A5B for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G3chk3DLTz2xGV; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:43:34 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210614164059.GJ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:43:34 +0200 Cc: "Salz, Rich" , Michael Richardson , wgchairs@ietf.or, "tools-discuss@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645381814.043156-ccc5d0e3a27f6003327f0e769ddb8464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> <1CA387C6-6058-46DC-882B-BCBEB848FE7B@tzi.org> <77018.1623687978@dooku> <20210614164059.GJ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Bcc sucks (was: Re: [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:43:43 -0000 On 2021-06-14, at 18:40, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > Short of it, i am not doing Bcc, but setting "Reply-to: " to the = target mailing list. > Not sure if that by itself is equally good. Most mail readers heed reply-to requests for narrow replies only. When answering a mailing list mail, I habitually use wide replies, as = many others do. Verdict: mostly useless Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jun 14 10:10:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DDE43A2B37 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:10:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FFu_n88qtDQ2 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C00293A2B6F for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com with SMTP id f84so16549497ybg.0 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:10:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dZBBn2Lwq7l5fN8yAzwUbCepZ4rwJ/M9Ls66WNGz7Js=; b=CB/HZnCc61xibyBt1SawOAcyMQhjx2T4f+6PNTV6dXihXbm7OYp0lUfbii1qzQOXav kmt54H4fmGmtFBmvkituhLlYMrFE6ThjFTsbxlVQGm1fkEHu30yHz+ld49VFD0GW+mzo 3WxDZx4HgLRt54ng9O6VE/iylUiNrYUN0EPhOCsCmNDPAi7weWWLAhXZ2uvOpZGyEqIg +CFJqaBeWTDoax6avY+PFA6iC0yJ2CTHkHCXJ3eE1RNClJZ1zPBqF+2WMAfsWqaAqvkK xOcOjt28S3GixvbbJQjWwxu/PrujsXzFCSNUPwkcF361xJ5vVvif154IqN9aow7EP+XI GYbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dZBBn2Lwq7l5fN8yAzwUbCepZ4rwJ/M9Ls66WNGz7Js=; b=fr7alaWc6Bw2MDM9dgGDCPvmnNyKtMxxRWPHUyvAbS+HzKJvFcIKYNm0dXcoHK3e4v kmqjrhs1NZ6wpBokiFfZAjlRgBwxgQh5Bt0eNX5iG2z5JP7Ohahv9foeewoDhpAZh91K OXx4Eyt4IFTmg4nuFixe5JaHvker43F8wc3b5QMPfCurhetfw8p0Gkn2tJwQp8OwG0k+ rC8J3XddUQwROXsiHaXZCoMDopfIYjDMkICea0xD/IhynGrlWBX+hin9p9SdPUtn6f14 W7MniR03xU9SZzg3O7CAroJhrOmsZu/OLfSQxC47UYdVat4x6plniljarp8D8E2ABjDa nU6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303iZRiYZDTCCSEQ1rKUFSDt5cFSJJJaV7MruTouUK/UyMN2F46 lRPYMSt3GCs+Gx6mLQUhVja9zL8e33XrhTQoPhI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxvjwhlixVkI+uh5E0qNv+coN6pSYvXanPnwlwDzggGmMT13+TmakLgyZYFJtYq1uqG3bfKW9FEs+pzBrfqokI= X-Received: by 2002:a25:f446:: with SMTP id p6mr26004993ybe.288.1623690606936; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:09:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: Julian Reschke Cc: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000da048d05c4bced8d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:10:16 -0000 --000000000000da048d05c4bced8d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" JHi, Julian, On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 9:41 AM Julian Reschke wrote: > Am 14.06.2021 um 16:26 schrieb Spencer Dawkins at IETF: > > I've read the discussion(s) about page numbers in current RFCs but I > > have a semi-related question. > > > > I've been spoiled by a decade or so of looking at the table of contents > > in the HTML for I-Ds and RFCs, and clicking on a link that takes me to > > the section of interest. For example, I can do this from the table of > > contents in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7418 > > . > > > > I am now noticing that we're publishing HTML versions that don't have > > page numbers in the table of contents (makes sense because there are no > > page numbers in these documents, but also don't have clickable links to > > the sections themselves. For example, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866 > > . > > > > Is this intentional? Was it previously discussed? > > There is which is the > "official" HTML, and that has working links. > > What you're looking at is the "htmlized" version, based on the plain > text version. That stopped to create links as the plain text version > doesn't have page numbers in the toc. > > To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated. Thank you for helping me understand, and thank you for the pointer to the RFC Editor HTML version. I wondered briefly about suggesting that the datatracker just link to the RFC Editor HTML version for RFCs, because that does seem more helpful than showing the htmlized versions (I'm not sure there's a reason to think someone would think to check the RFC Editor HTML version), but now I'm curious why a draft like https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-quic-http/ has both an HTML version and an HTMLized version, and both have links to sections ... and maybe I should just stop being nosy. :-) Best, Spencer --000000000000da048d05c4bced8d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
JHi, Julian,

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 9:41 = AM Julian Reschke <julian.resch= ke@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 14.06.2021 um 16:26 schrieb Spencer Dawkins at IETF:
> I've read the discussion(s) about page numbers in current RFCs but= I
> have a semi-related question.
>
> I've been spoiled by a decade or so of looking at the table of con= tents
> in the HTML for I-Ds and RFCs, and clicking on a link that takes me to=
> the section of interest. For example, I can do this from the table of<= br> > contents in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/= rfc7418
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7418<= /a>>.
>
> I am now noticing that we're publishing HTML versions that don'= ;t have
> page numbers in the table of contents (makes sense because there are n= o
> page numbers in these documents, but also don't have clickable lin= ks to
> the sections themselves. For example,
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866<= br> > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866<= /a>>.
>
> Is this intentional? Was it previously discussed?

There is <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8866.html<= /a>> which is the
"official" HTML, and that has working links.

What you're looking at is the "htmlized" version, based on th= e plain
text version. That stopped to create links as the plain text version
doesn't have page numbers in the toc.

To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated.

Thank you for helping me understand, and thank you= for the pointer to the RFC Editor HTML version.=C2=A0

=

Best,

Spencer
--000000000000da048d05c4bced8d-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 11:04:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7773A2CB3; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:03:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Si41ffG2LzOj; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E6583A2CB6; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (desktop4.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.16]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 110651F456; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:03:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 779311A293E; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:03:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann cc: anima@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org In-reply-to: References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> <1CA387C6-6058-46DC-882B-BCBEB848FE7B@tzi.org> <77018.1623687978@dooku> Comments: In-reply-to Carsten Bormann message dated "Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:29:51 +0200." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 26.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:03:43 -0400 Message-ID: <81889.1623693823@dooku> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:03:54 -0000 Carsten Bormann wrote: cb> How about >> cb> {::include foo-????-??-??.yang} >> cb> and, if there is no such file, kramdown-rfc expands the wild card in cb> the directory and uses the numerically latest file? >> >> You'd use shell globs? > Yes. Any need to go beyond that? >> I think it might be better to use PCRE. > Much more typing and backslash-mangling, and I don=E2=80=99t see the = use case. DOS/Windows people don't get shell globs, and "?" is not something they kno= w. >> It might be better to have this as "winclude" > So =E2=80=98loseclude=E2=80=99 would be including all matches? hah. > (What does the =E2=80=9Cw=E2=80=9D stand for?) wildcard. cb> (There might also be a use-case for actually including all these cb> files, so I=E2=80=99m still in thinking mode, but I think this is c= lose.) -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ From nobody Mon Jun 14 11:13:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A303A2876 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:13:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5S5PrBqkjw4f for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C36E43A2CFC for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:40::146]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20F011F456; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:12:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 889BA1A293E; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:12:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Tools Team Discussion In-reply-to: References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> Comments: In-reply-to Spencer Dawkins at IETF message dated "Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:09:40 -0500." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 26.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:12:54 -0400 Message-ID: <82425.1623694374@dooku> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:13:05 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > reason to think someone would think to check the RFC Editor HTML > version), but now I'm curious why a draft like > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-quic-http/ has both an HTML > version and an HTMLized version, and both have links to sections > ... and maybe I should just stop being nosy. :-) because a) some people objecting to removal of the htmlize version, so it remained. b) Internet Drafts continue to be rendered with pagination to txt, so the htmlizer knows how to put links into the ToC. I continue to read txt files in emacs from my rsync'ed offline copy whenever I need to copy and paste or I'm editing another document. I now prefer HTML version for everything else though. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAmDHnCYACgkQlUzhVv38 QpA6KwgAi3aaMyamp2b8NzhmW4uFmhi1LLJOD3vPYToCht2QAxgM5BmyWX6Qvw6p e2kAJYDAvdf/nKNOmA5g5dPUovzHUB+hgy91xTCL4mAIt6N/CTO2Ysy2vGibjxSW iX33D/a7wQ85/hV5I1FWReN+Y/p3I+cA95C5Gop0qwVsFqgv9M7bhS2jHn5SHIrX ppV3Qw0Jkd6x8fqHcajlsNjN3hrZKXlkpwZ4CLcZtgTqdfda8amK0cRzKa6gI16V XEGaMzm8lY+eaAuhPb2NEquXzTcZ+ZxDMKrxuPIe2yKfneFJLvIH1QBle2JYdlqg AakWJ9YV5XEKhOr/B7XvvyHTMPcxlA== =8S/u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 11:38:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B31133A2DBC; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:38:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cdYl8XySKo3T; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92C03A2D6C; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (047-026-251-217.res.spectrum.com [47.26.251.217]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04789811F1; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:38:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Christian Hopps Message-Id: <6CA55CB9-CBF9-48C7-B925-892020D2ED72@chopps.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_447CE31D-42C5-404F-89C7-41AF110B8409" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:38:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: <16776.1623679777@localhost> Cc: Carsten Bormann , anima@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <6795.1623632992@localhost> <16776.1623679777@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [netmod] [Anima] looking for practical advice on managing YANG source in XML format RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:38:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_447CE31D-42C5-404F-89C7-41AF110B8409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I didn=E2=80=99t think you were actually looking for a non-xml solution, = but as you mentioned in an earlier mail there=E2=80=99s my org-rfc setup = which makes all this yang stuff pretty simple. The source of the YANG = module is in the single org-mode formatted draft source, along with = support for YANG validation of the module and examples, generating YANG = trees, downloading YANG dependencies etc.. :) An example use: = https://github.com/choppsv1/draft-chopps-netmod-geo-location = Thanks, Chris. > On Jun 14, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On 14. Jun 2021, at 03:09, Michael Richardson = wrote: >>>=20 >>> 1) how to process yang files with YYYY-DD-MM into XML. >>> 2) how to generate yang tree files. >>> 3) how do I get my YANG includes downloaded, and do I put them into = my repo? >>> 4) how to do this with MT Makefiles? >=20 >> I people could tell me what they need, we could develop a feature in >> kramdown-rfc to handle this. >=20 > One possibility is that kramdown-rfc ought to look for, and include = the > latest foo-YYYY-MM-DD.yang file, when told to ::include foo.yang. > Alternatively, it could perhaps do the YYYY-MM-DD substitution itself. >=20 >> (This would presumably also include support for YANG-SID files.) >=20 > That's mostly just a question about including the results, and it's = not that > hard thing to add to the main Makefile. >=20 > But, as I said, I xml2rfc doesn't have a useful include functionality, = for > when not working with kramdown. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T = consulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_447CE31D-42C5-404F-89C7-41AF110B8409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I didn=E2=80=99t think you were actually looking for a = non-xml solution, but as you mentioned in an earlier mail there=E2=80=99s = my org-rfc setup which makes all this yang stuff pretty simple. The = source of the YANG module is in the single org-mode formatted draft = source, along with support for YANG validation of the module and = examples, generating YANG trees, downloading YANG dependencies etc.. = :)

An example = use: https://github.com/choppsv1/draft-chopps-netmod-geo-location

Thanks,
Chris.

On Jun = 14, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:


Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 14. Jun 2021, at 03:09, Michael Richardson = <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

1) how to process yang files = with YYYY-DD-MM into XML.
2) how to generate yang tree = files.
3) how do I get my YANG includes downloaded, and do = I put them into my repo?
4) how to do this with MT = Makefiles?

I people could tell me = what they need, we could develop a feature in
kramdown-rfc = to handle this.

One = possibility is that kramdown-rfc ought to look for, and include the
latest foo-YYYY-MM-DD.yang file, when told to ::include = foo.yang.
Alternatively, it could perhaps do the = YYYY-MM-DD substitution itself.

(This would presumably also include support for = YANG-SID files.)

That's mostly = just a question about including the results, and it's not that
hard thing to add to the main Makefile.

But, as I said, I xml2rfc doesn't have a useful include = functionality, for
when not working with kramdown.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T= consulting )
=           Sandelman = Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide




_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_447CE31D-42C5-404F-89C7-41AF110B8409-- From nobody Mon Jun 14 13:33:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F5C3A0B02 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:33:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.65 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xE2SeQ-pb9fA for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 186B73A0B21 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:33:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FDB54802F; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 22:33:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 196C64E7772; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 22:33:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 22:33:07 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210614203307.GK12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 20:33:29 -0000 Julian: On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 04:41:17PM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated. I think this is not an update, but a fix for a regression bug. If you look at older html'ized RFCs in comparison, e.g: rfc7866, you will see that the table of content has not only hotlinks to page numbers, but also for the section numbers hotlinks to those section numbers.. And those section number hotlink targets still are in the new rfc renderings (rfc8866), and they even are still hotlinks on the section headings themselves. Just not on the section numbers in th TOC. Sounds to me like it should be a very simple fix. Looks like collateral damage when removing page numbers, but not justified by any "new rendering rules" i have seen. Just don't know these days anymore where/how to submit a bugfix request... whats the "tool" in question here ? Cheers Toerless On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 04:41:17PM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > Am 14.06.2021 um 16:26 schrieb Spencer Dawkins at IETF: > > I've read the discussion(s) about page numbers in current RFCs but I > > have a semi-related question. > > > > I've been spoiled by a decade or so of looking at the table of contents > > in the HTML for I-Ds and RFCs, and clicking on a link that takes me to > > the section of interest. For example, I can do this from the table of > > contents in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7418 > > . > > > > I am now noticing that we're publishing HTML versions that don't have > > page numbers in the table of contents (makes sense because there are no > > page numbers in these documents, but also don't have clickable links to > > the sections themselves. For example, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8866 > > . > > > > Is this intentional? Was it previously discussed? > > There is which is the > "official" HTML, and that has working links. > > What you're looking at is the "htmlized" version, based on the plain > text version. That stopped to create links as the plain text version > doesn't have page numbers in the toc. > > To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated. > > > ... > > Best regards, Julian > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Jun 14 13:46:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A72F3A0B8B for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.65 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RbPxq21_n5-F for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C94A3A0B89 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 426FD548061; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 22:46:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 328474E7772; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 22:46:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 22:46:12 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Michael Richardson Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Tools Team Discussion Message-ID: <20210614204612.GL12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <82425.1623694374@dooku> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <82425.1623694374@dooku> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 20:46:23 -0000 So, whats better about the HTMl rendering vs. the html'ized txt rendering ? -> I don't think the readability improves by exchanging fixed-width font with var-width font in the html. IMHO Quite the opposite. -> Making the rendering adjust to the width of the window is also IMHO silly. IMHO, if you care about readability of your rfc, you will take the width of some reference renderng into account, for example with length of paragraphs. And that standard rendering is of cours courier 72 character which is what pictures continue to use in whatever renderingg one chooses. So you make the window more narrow, you cut the pictures. You make it wider, then pictures are too narrow vs. the text. You choose some randomn font vs. courier and pictures vs. text looks ugly. Aka: this "new" html rendering is IMHO silly. The only (arguably) good addition to the html'ized text version is the pulldown TOC. Cheers Toerless On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 02:12:54PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > > reason to think someone would think to check the RFC Editor HTML > > version), but now I'm curious why a draft like > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-quic-http/ has both an HTML > > version and an HTMLized version, and both have links to sections > > ... and maybe I should just stop being nosy. :-) > > because > a) some people objecting to removal of the htmlize version, so it remained. > b) Internet Drafts continue to be rendered with pagination to txt, so the htmlizer > knows how to put links into the ToC. > > I continue to read txt files in emacs from my rsync'ed offline copy whenever > I need to copy and paste or I'm editing another document. > I now prefer HTML version for everything else though. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Jun 14 16:44:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298E53A13BF for ; 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Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:44:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-519-g27a961944e-fm-20210531.001-g27a96194 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <48c1a29e-a0b2-4832-95fc-3b80a42d2b5c@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20210614204612.GL12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <82425.1623694374@dooku> <20210614204612.GL12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:44:17 +1000 From: "Martin Thomson" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Hyperlinks_to_sections/subsections_in_?= =?utf-8?q?current_RFC_HTML_format?= X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 23:44:43 -0000 On Tue, Jun 15, 2021, at 06:46, Toerless Eckert wrote: > So, whats better about the HTMl rendering vs. the html'ized txt rendering ? > > -> I don't think the readability improves by exchanging fixed-width font > with var-width font in the html. IMHO Quite the opposite. So fix it. I did. https://github.com/martinthomson/rfc-css makes the HTML more readable (to me). Feel free to fork that and replace the fonts with fixed-width fonts if that makes you happier. Complaining isn't likely to cause anyone to be convinced that regressing to plain text is worthwhile. > -> Making the rendering adjust to the width of the window is also IMHO silly. No, not adapting is what is silly. Different people have different computers and different needs. HTML lets people engage with the content on their own terms, not as dictated by long-dead constraints of terminals and line printers. From nobody Mon Jun 14 17:41:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEB3E3A15D9 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:41:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k_HXjTwXsQoL for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7C3F3A15D8 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6103354802F; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:41:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 583954E7776; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:41:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:41:25 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Martin Thomson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210615004125.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <82425.1623694374@dooku> <20210614204612.GL12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <48c1a29e-a0b2-4832-95fc-3b80a42d2b5c@www.fastmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48c1a29e-a0b2-4832-95fc-3b80a42d2b5c@www.fastmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 00:41:38 -0000 On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 09:44:17AM +1000, Martin Thomson wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2021, at 06:46, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > So, whats better about the HTMl rendering vs. the html'ized txt rendering ? > > > > -> I don't think the readability improves by exchanging fixed-width font > > with var-width font in the html. IMHO Quite the opposite. > > So fix it. I did. https://github.com/martinthomson/rfc-css makes the HTML more readable (to me). Feel free to fork that and replace the fonts with fixed-width fonts if that makes you happier. Complaining isn't likely to cause anyone to be convinced that regressing to plain text is worthwhile. And everybody having to do their own fixups isn't going to have datatracker provide the options preferred by some majority. > > -> Making the rendering adjust to the width of the window is also IMHO silly. > > No, not adapting is what is silly. Different people have different computers and different needs. HTML lets people engage with the content on their own terms, not as dictated by long-dead constraints of terminals and line printers. For generality let me claim that most people would not want to go through the trouble of editing css. No browser allows you to easily say "please render only datatracker HTML RFCs with monospace" (so that i have font consistency across text and pictures. So much for font. I do agree that increasing of font size for better readability is an extreme important benefit of the HTML rendering, but because of the fixed format pictures (and nowadays even more so various code segments), RFCs are just not arbitrary free-scale. You get trouble with all these non-free scaleable elements, and the more important formal languages become in RFCs, the more we will feel that. Also: lines become harder to read the longer they are. The current HTML rendering already does have some maximum rendered line length. That limit seems to be based on someones preference. Quite arbitrary. I have a different preference. I would be all for having datatracker provide a per-datatracker-account style-sheet setting. In fact, i would have expected something like that so as to actually realize the benefit of html instead of letting every user figure it out by themselves and having to start becoming a CSS coder. Cheers Toerless > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Jun 14 17:58:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC913A1661 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 17:58:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 14 Jun 2021 20:58:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-519-g27a961944e-fm-20210531.001-g27a96194 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9913ea7a-3df7-419a-a71c-d3f03d264856@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20210615004125.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <82425.1623694374@dooku> <20210614204612.GL12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <48c1a29e-a0b2-4832-95fc-3b80a42d2b5c@www.fastmail.com> <20210615004125.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 10:57:56 +1000 From: "Martin Thomson" To: "Toerless Eckert" Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Hyperlinks_to_sections/subsections_in_?= =?utf-8?q?current_RFC_HTML_format?= X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 00:58:23 -0000 On Tue, Jun 15, 2021, at 10:41, Toerless Eckert wrote: > And everybody having to do their own fixups isn't going to have datatracker > provide the options preferred by some majority. What I am saying is that your preferences are unique enough that maybe you need to go look out for your own interests. > Also: lines become harder to read the longer they are. Here you are right. Except that this is not subjective in the way you suggest. All the best publishing advice I've seen supports this view. The RFC Editor adopted a stylesheet that has lines that are too long. I tried to fix this using the processes at the time (I even proposed patches) and was unsuccessful. FWIW, this is the main reason I override styles in my browser. > I would be all for having datatracker provide a per-datatracker-account > style-sheet setting. Again, don't assume that your preferences are special enough to justify someone else doing a bunch of work. If you care enough, volunteer the work necessary to fix it. From nobody Mon Jun 14 18:12:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 830F63A16D8 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:12:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kE3IurNg0LfM for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E6263A16D7 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA75D548017; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 03:12:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id B1FC04E7777; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 03:12:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 03:12:09 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Martin Thomson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210615011209.GO12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <82425.1623694374@dooku> <20210614204612.GL12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <48c1a29e-a0b2-4832-95fc-3b80a42d2b5c@www.fastmail.com> <20210615004125.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <9913ea7a-3df7-419a-a71c-d3f03d264856@www.fastmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9913ea7a-3df7-419a-a71c-d3f03d264856@www.fastmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 01:12:20 -0000 On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 10:57:56AM +1000, Martin Thomson wrote: > > I would be all for having datatracker provide a per-datatracker-account > > style-sheet setting. > > Again, don't assume that your preferences are special enough to justify someone else doing a bunch of work. If you care enough, volunteer the work necessary to fix it. I would have just thought that all the html-heads would have wanted to show off the flexibility of html more than what is done now. The amount of work to come up with a separate css and then figure out how to apply it to just dras/RFC on datatracker is big enough that only few will do i. If instead you could choose on your datatracker account from e.g.: 3 different css and upload also your own, then that would have persuaded a lot more users. But then again, afaik, css could by itself not take the current html and paginate it, so it too has its limits. Cheers Toerless From nobody Mon Jun 14 19:14:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221F73A199A for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:14:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ulwvqQpFV1Aw for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E0313A1999 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:14:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623723249; bh=Uy/r/d5eiGK0O45mikJWV3puhRu3H7UHkopn/5LGkN4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=C/rRw3ggkIFjUqZqUF+SEM2ih9+OARYx0xiJoqSmyuSDIiFNbWuFFkhVFkh+eOUU+ 5EVwB9M/PLOX9bZoaTfL5wWNox+Q6z87rKIhGXjBtBx+aW1QbyADruAQ94MFRRKIAs LyyYjbgF+U9qBWX9AM/Uw+SOd+6vQBGk19vYnjmw= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([84.171.158.165]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M6UZv-1lvScz3jEP-006wR1 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:14:08 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <82425.1623694374@dooku> <20210614204612.GL12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <48c1a29e-a0b2-4832-95fc-3b80a42d2b5c@www.fastmail.com> <20210615004125.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <9913ea7a-3df7-419a-a71c-d3f03d264856@www.fastmail.com> <20210615011209.GO12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:14:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210615011209.GO12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:pWhPpFT+q/IaMw8zuMRsUbTjGLNBo8p+guLEF+fexcIgxcOt1Ru fQm5qymvkTRUYRa6FMmx028W9w/k8n/iUE1iOafEChHeWfQjj+zFNF0yHdlDMq1ygMVBn3z biWypQv6meP/YBbsHGgvYhfSfccFHBmtZ5mKyVonuJN5ha/dlUEzKUpVHXJNlWCYTc/jDaN QeZuvpeuj62oI5J/pU4yQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:SAfmFmqlOvU=:VUngfbGWZONgTFrZFF6yNs ISB876yOvnLkBQdlX94ewtj68/+Lcc1+yW+EuX4v+e2PiS60BPocwc59Q0cZJY4323UasaAoP I89JQY9aTzVXfOXyZUkEPwcCTj65mMJtJChGr/wsD6sjruwxGpKCApy85aSkH80iidqd0jPdp +Mxe/TaPEIshNkgFyDnGCxwgzUhYEwLj9OCZsi+Z6Em15yzBvwZ6My1o/eZPgGj2T4ZlolZ2E bBPV8muRinOe7mwiwRF9VhHsYBAA1NR5thdN0GoiJTlgIaLxGdwBNJ5k4JzJK2OOnRrmD2bb9 VYqN9WaMGMooZjqFUFBIJSHOeMi+y85W0+dDFpVwgyciRkUpztsnvsEbmGZvQnqnrp70903Dj /9XHR7iUVj+Ec5nZPxTgJt8tuJKfi48f/ERUzYXmuT0a6+TPel5eR509iZBoHez1Tuv73JoMR n0maLmkPPXowWNqjB24rVvthpiP3fezRmDXLdN0gQKf+rgumonUAHMq/LT4RSMCT7Ohb/1Ih2 WttzX5qv7AVwSSgxK5j7kiZkSVPZMckHffTKWPQUWzjvmokyBJm73X4fNNQZShqb1+F7aWqqi 7Z2cOWKzhAiyqOXNT5Bl3XWT6yvyFB0OhDvx8KJXBfGffVcAFoq1MAr17ZRZAXshsuOMwbPhV TDSe0iv5IEdikYR+ZGbGQ5YuUu7cHQfKmkT+GTBe4gF5atJaKQ6lVPOpvdxfo+xMio+iO4EW2 THqsRBCi49iTk9Ebeh9cxTrgSAttwjgQFVvX6yAJdHcXkGNs/KK6XWOQZg+lDjnEV/YWf7YoD TMnNzwg2oEBpEV5phmEUqQx2erT4LiCpwj2BRy1B3zhCDH+iaMkRZCsIxIqjGQBCLCMtj/ejS tgbgVN7GxxfloCC5KHyUYsMWnL8fYwGE00Ti8kJ2BUFsJINEyAgk3oXM5kp/Ut/IwgC6DCN4p SYh2noeGaKzVcih81aNp5GcZjYADBfT1+WE98Li0pYj4JLyHzhPzPx/cqD7pAhF9NNchGSg3j n+GElG9h8LkPQEJJaw1XfaHcCaa5Z4HH4ml2X6D4eg1cVQif9FLLtWCgILQT6IzLQ/EPORbrH W4F7C5C1d0UGroRYkn/tcJjbnCV7z5U4jADHr/hBfNlqhEsy05gL4RkTQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:14:15 -0000 Am 15.06.2021 um 03:12 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > ... > But then again, afaik, css could by itself not take the current html and= paginate it, so it too has its limits. > ... HTML does support pagination. You just need to use the proper CSS paged media attributes (such as done by rfc2629.xslt=3D, and use a tools that takes advantage of them (such as PrinceXml or WeasyPrint). Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Jun 14 19:17:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0803A1A48 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:17:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id utg4ztkcYkJJ for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8544F3A1A3F for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:17:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623723423; bh=uxidcutZcjMEowqrnS6MoOSAtzvoyhuH7Hg986+Ugf4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=HxIARanCbByl7+obZePwwUb+ZspO3sBgLvNQS66Tv9kIOpVL/wlwwTzERVBu7I5CU CMsFqow9DXokCNTzmv06d2n0QZFPC5Zpa3cZiEjQB3CPxQsMVP/zMetDJLKiAv8nr5 VNJ4P5vmb2xuEXEin44S15lwCy0MW415NytsUZMQ= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([84.171.158.165]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N5mKP-1lEFqm2vfv-017Ckq for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:17:03 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <20210614203307.GK12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:17:01 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210614203307.GK12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:YhhA2n21vJlAdu5KotKrmyl6SrJcfxgd9YSTbS6mdJiZCGQa9w1 4yIB9DRTSvOkGtjJKR96wOU6/QqQyoOca7uzKXN1Up/ptOAObLC1t1b6kuxi9utplqOCYsC Mu/yGyV4Qv03VWFziHWPzYJWUcMY+QnkAvNMafkbXqHHdioy+yU6XKEUBJe2im6FYAN6TOw Gu43xuH7h9Hxg5zQNzicQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:wp91N3V5f0Y=:uZtZuTUl6eb6clRfRHSwqb m9Y+i1Chb8yj5BX6FHnYDCYyUG9e7oF/ZEQ4b25Q81U96M8oNLONwU8I18MzV/RonDt9GpA7I IUkPXNv7NB6eDH5fvHZgwZiD5oPIwx+XDUd6GLzkj3+9bGrTXK5SxNUoAy5iDUZBxINXtW9rm jGiqPCUJThwizcSSRe9WFqolgRjDNdKL3xsdPdcgKMAMQTtuxSxLGp4S/Oskdqe6cyzqInL/U c3M0Il56xyqbWtDUr8B88B0z5Xm7E6QHQfe0FfxkFdOqXI/RKBrUWO1cWR78sThHPx2egch7v UpTQIEAsOLu7ZxXNyXhsmCfgAX9kzfDrP7pHgHMvh7tfBDdpjcZ9N4ZRRskvvfcO6vYoDvD2s QRABUr8z2/PwWIMCg1Y5GoKj3Gi6413qPY6MITrK9pWliFEOYTe2x/xPWuqu/z9V+G/1gkD3b GW/9aPGautyuJmFLPeizB+gGtyEEXQ6wRKNnk1ODqxvS9N6DWKYxuyAr1OxeUYibC/7ClDjLy gOqrXV/7MwlWZbvbvNAq9bplht0BUqWkdztigRa3D0Tc3oQvFUuTqFQbHMbNvUPz8uC6AW8mB LVWG0JaFr5e9TV0RufTPfN14rUmkalkxvmDkow/g/JTO8d7O060KrBM45LyVrB7VKujHYsHn6 9by4kqVnvqq770VtDuNlWKkoKjfVb+mLNzeqVCBfPpTcaLSaD/QzhnO7fCvVN88oXZzvKwNz4 g5nFLLF8+WcRUF5TIaSgOTdpV+1dnI91Ly5Fsm21R7BCLsERavLbRR+9nZfcJhA2QPyfWZPSZ ooLy96+2A8kVcHkNqWXUaRNxitBmkD8C6f4jW7rkFFMxayA1hN/jm1NB+vEM54o/oz0ta4n2o 0eoqY8GAUsP5Jme4hpHho7xt92Z5g6iBvknvksV30l9DkyVRFMysqf8THMvcDAj9ezBF+EU4x ZAtCZ5+6QZmgdGMH24KuCC60PZ4d2SfXeyS3GEw8bEIavRlpNgK0T/vbzaLTuDvOTdx44HQdW hS+pPPmCyKLJHn28G6fKhAwFp63lymxym8p5FWootnVn8FRwHk0WfuG8jO4qK28dSgxRO950l EeIllzMQYnRQKoTw5ZELtqweQ5tzm56ziL6/dSlP1dxaJSObvTSLUFFUw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:17:09 -0000 Am 14.06.2021 um 22:33 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > Julian: > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 04:41:17PM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >> To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated. > > I think this is not an update, but a fix for a regression bug. The tool is not broken; i't doing what it has been doing all the time. It's the *input* on what is runs that changed. > If you look at older html'ized RFCs in comparison, e.g: rfc7866, > you will see that the table of content has not only hotlinks to > page numbers, but also for the section numbers hotlinks to those > section numbers.. And those section number hotlink targets still are > in the new rfc renderings (rfc8866), and they even are still > hotlinks on the section headings themselves. Just not on the > section numbers in th TOC. Sounds to me like it should be a very simple > fix. > > Looks like collateral damage when removing page numbers, but > not justified by any "new rendering rules" i have seen. > > Just don't know these days anymore where/how to submit a bugfix > request... whats the "tool" in question here ? (unless datatracker runs something else; Robert Sparks would know). Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Jun 15 07:00:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22903A313B for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 07:00:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.698, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1f1UnyDQLjU7 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 07:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6124A3A3135 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 07:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050095.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050095.ppops.net-00190b01. 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Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:59:58 -0400 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.115]) by prod-mail-ppoint7.akamai.com with ESMTP id 396c1sgngx-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:59:58 -0400 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.119) by ustx2ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.122) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.18; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 08:59:58 -0500 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.018; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 08:59:58 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Martin Thomson , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format Thread-Index: AQHXYXdG582ZwFRYyEaNvxG+pBjqPqsVK0eA Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 13:59:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <82425.1623694374@dooku> <20210614204612.GL12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <48c1a29e-a0b2-4832-95fc-3b80a42d2b5c@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <48c1a29e-a0b2-4832-95fc-3b80a42d2b5c@www.fastmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.50.21060600 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43] Content-Type: text/plain; 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.33) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint7 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 14:00:09 -0000 ICAgID4gLT4gTWFraW5nIHRoZSByZW5kZXJpbmcgYWRqdXN0IHRvIHRoZSB3aWR0aCBvZiB0aGUg d2luZG93IGlzIGFsc28gSU1ITyBzaWxseS4NCg0KICAgIE5vLCBub3QgYWRhcHRpbmcgaXMgd2hh dCBpcyBzaWxseS4gDQoNCkFncmVlZC4NCg0KSXQgaXMgbW9yZSB0aGFuIHNpbGx5LiAgSXQncyBj YWxsZWQgImFkYXB0aXZlIGZvcm1hdHRpbmciIGFuZCBzb21ldGltZXMgdGhlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50 IHRvIGRvIHNvIGlzIGEgbGVnYWwgb25lLg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Jun 15 14:14:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A693A3E3C for ; 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Tue, 15 Jun 2021 23:14:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 31DB34E778B; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 23:14:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 23:14:34 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210615211434.GV12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <20210614203307.GK12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 21:14:54 -0000 Julian, On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 04:17:01AM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > Am 14.06.2021 um 22:33 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > > Just don't know these days anymore where/how to submit a bugfix > > request... whats the "tool" in question here ? > > (unless datatracker runs > something else; Robert Sparks would know). Thanks! > > > To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated. > > > > I think this is not an update, but a fix for a regression bug. > > The tool is not broken; i't doing what it has been doing all the time. > It's the *input* on what is runs that changed. Please explain, so that the bug report i would write is as correct as possible. AFAIK, the input did have section numbers before and past the new rfc changes. Likewise do the htmlized output have section heading tags before and after. Just after those section heading tags have no hotlinks to them in the toc anymore. Cheers Toerless > > If you look at older html'ized RFCs in comparison, e.g: rfc7866, > > you will see that the table of content has not only hotlinks to > > page numbers, but also for the section numbers hotlinks to those > > section numbers.. And those section number hotlink targets still are > > in the new rfc renderings (rfc8866), and they even are still > > hotlinks on the section headings themselves. Just not on the > > section numbers in th TOC. Sounds to me like it should be a very simple > > fix. > > > > Looks like collateral damage when removing page numbers, but > > not justified by any "new rendering rules" i have seen. > > > Best regards, Julian > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Jun 15 14:56:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7818B3A3F64 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 14:56:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Tue, 15 Jun 2021 23:56:11 +0200 To: Toerless Eckert Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <603c3bd8-1509-4ea2-ca83-786303d169d9@gmx.de> <20210614203307.GK12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20210615211434.GV12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <29cc9609-2184-0836-d20e-b68e69e40f89@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 23:56:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210615211434.GV12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:wsj4dckBJYfDivp6O0/fLOkfRHXWYnI7s9TL581AjI8Dw5PBbpx wkuFu98uZcdMwU4305U5fRw6V7iLgfMduBLFoqxSgLnDEfq6Uof1o9ZHAq5j6HZmidnlZ3o o9Y0VKtKgpXlJ+N3zMDzleRtXYpYK/2gKCcsljgW33l0qKOnrE98Vej18aXDh3cHYSknREp mN0kY6dws5zgVxQ/GI3mg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:i42TIZknWfE=:qeoomcZE3f9oUvpRtiuHbO B8cO1Safi4E5yz0QDuA+g3QzDTAkzJOx+W5Wp8N4R1LAgHbFiV58tbUUZvWj+daBSkZ4/RSRZ 4B83U8iJDasdllQvFuKoq1GpZeGZ7x6tfA8OviHs+6ZbZgUHRe9De47zKREAKEOPGW2XoDb0I iQdS1taAPU9vFc4eZLMMzU3ypH8ePJOFlz/xRwxGK6YqoGCLwBHt+gsq2+l2B+b5ja+riCFNs O4fjOFAEx6O1DV9lXKjNKVebAsyXvff8LHNn982JXOHIPBQbQn0isVciNq8Whixmqm6ICVha/ BwMSYOX47NUf9Ks9tKjyUuxLOCt4Hk3G4k54CMnGJDL6srOVnUkjxIn0/uTwPvySdcOwpNfZS VS6JPdouyW1OZIF4OvIsshHyTcTy6fWStk2iGNXdqUplHwg0LlylweNMl/MsAdzJxLyVmJgbf K2+MfjvXriv5bMu4kaWBcZaade48KRHk1OKJKAyBO/0VTRrOs31+B+o9SVBGepjD5rNuOcqPF GPNXAWtUPd/+1c8NNXTbVsWEqmD/qgNKRfMzIaq6SWGI47KiS0ecoM6p0KJUdT4Phu5uxvjid lMzmjglUaRgE+cWSx+cyvLqx1MnOqoWMbEh+mLzJQ60ciWGFZPx2YKoRFfT9vaMG/VuvnKOOy ArXKSvXabv/X3NZyAKDuiI7cMlWDeogpB/g+Bs6UItFtnEYPBZ/vbXM6GFzBnFo6OjbN68gMS GzXdRRz1u3nfQ/DbbuYhQx//AIa3ET+1DSOdKYDsHiUQee6FLjBJ9c3yygJnxzS+ZXnVzNpSf PslU2bajmNYJ6FyiF1TEfbl1Zo078n2c/Ym8OHwJS42CCM+uTC8KShk9fXQGwJZsdvDJPk14f qlbJkrxpG9CcYDGaefcQhDn1RgOKypa6LcMO8zXOVPdrmYF9R0GAqtzYW4AZTxYC34rV3qd/8 dXfdK14E6YJBeLqjHWR7J5jOUzsnOIpkSMEuvIu0OURPzbExy3c0svkJYeawklQl02o0fyHNe y4blmyt64WPfn7LbzPImLMH8nEmQAQ6Sbsp0+tlJLQ2s6tmZdDJZuHmfq7WjCIQ2VbFOL7qQY Y8x9lMldpXU+pZrV+VShJ99YpO4Dk76Ki3U1cLYE+nZatF7uEcEmRLifg== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 21:56:26 -0000 Am 15.06.2021 um 23:14 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > Julian, > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 04:17:01AM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >> Am 14.06.2021 um 22:33 schrieb Toerless Eckert: >>> Just don't know these days anymore where/how to submit a bugfix >>> request... whats the "tool" in question here ? >> >> (unless datatracker runs >> something else; Robert Sparks would know). > > Thanks! > >>>> To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated. >>> >>> I think this is not an update, but a fix for a regression bug. >> >> The tool is not broken; i't doing what it has been doing all the time. >> It's the *input* on what is runs that changed. > > Please explain, so that the bug report i would write is as correct > as possible. AFAIK, the input did have section numbers before and past > the new rfc changes. Likewise do the htmlized output have section > heading tags before and after. Just after those section heading tags > have no hotlinks to them in the toc anymore. After the format switch, the plain text version ceased to have page number= s. Looking at this some more, I really do not understand yet why linking the section number string in the TOC entry does not work anymore. Might be a tiny change in the formatting that causes the regexp used for that not to work anymore. Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Jun 15 18:03:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40EAE3A44A9 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 18:03:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qtV5LI2poQci for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 18:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BE523A44A0 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 18:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723D5548067; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 03:02:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 6CC114E778F; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 03:02:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 03:02:47 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: rjsparks@nostrum.com Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210616010247.GX12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Robert: opening bug against rfcmarkup (was: Re: Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 01:03:00 -0000 Hi Robert How do i open a bug against RFC rendering ? Julian thinks it is in the rfcmarkup tool, but unlike other tools such as xml2rfc, i can not find a bug-trac under https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ Problem: pre-reform html'ized RFC, example: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7994 The section numbers in the TOC are hotlinks to the sections. post-reform html'ized RFC, example: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8994 The section numbers in the TOC are not hotlinks anymore, making it impossible to click through from TOC to a particular section. This seems to be a bug, for example "Appendi A" is still a hotlink. All the sections still have their tags for hotlinks and in the section titles themselves these hotlinks are still used, just not in the TOC. Thanks! Toerless On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 11:56:09PM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > Am 15.06.2021 um 23:14 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > > Julian, > > > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 04:17:01AM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > > > Am 14.06.2021 um 22:33 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > > > > Just don't know these days anymore where/how to submit a bugfix > > > > request... whats the "tool" in question here ? > > > > > > (unless datatracker runs > > > something else; Robert Sparks would know). > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > To fix this, the "htmlize" tool would need to be updated. > > > > > > > > I think this is not an update, but a fix for a regression bug. > > > > > > The tool is not broken; i't doing what it has been doing all the time. > > > It's the *input* on what is runs that changed. > > > > Please explain, so that the bug report i would write is as correct > > as possible. AFAIK, the input did have section numbers before and past > > the new rfc changes. Likewise do the htmlized output have section > > heading tags before and after. Just after those section heading tags > > have no hotlinks to them in the toc anymore. > > After the format switch, the plain text version ceased to have page numbers. > > Looking at this some more, I really do not understand yet why linking > the section number string in the TOC entry does not work anymore. Might > be a tiny change in the formatting that causes the regexp used for that > not to work anymore. > > Best regards, Julian -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Jun 15 22:13:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086D03A4B8E for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:13:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nrO0cz5IIvMN for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94B6A3A4B8F for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G4YHj21bwz2xHy; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:13:37 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210616010247.GX12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:13:36 +0200 Cc: Robert Sparks , Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645513216.852537-08b619a456ff6d9d86de579eb33335e0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210616010247.GX12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Robert: opening bug against rfcmarkup (was: Re: Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 05:13:47 -0000 The bug is that we are still using rfcmarkup to generate the htmlized = versions. That was needed in the age of nroff, but since RFC 8650 it is really = weird to throw away all the information that the XML has during = rendering and then try to guess it back into existence in rfcmarkup. xml2rfc should have an =E2=80=9Chtmlized=E2=80=9D writer, which = generates the same layout in the output as the text writer, just in the = way that rfcmarkup has been doing it, but with information from the = horse=E2=80=99s mouth. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jun 16 07:18:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DAD3A1A43 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:18:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RRSCGGBw2-QX for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 429003A1A47 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6633054806D for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:18:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 627594E779C; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:18:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:18:43 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:18:54 -0000 Is it possible that the new world of moving from tools.ietf.org to datatracker.ietf.org just made it more difficult to get to the XML of IETF drafts ? e.g.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-27 (or any other draft for that matter) shows no xml, and of course i do know there was when this was available from tools.ietf.org. Hasn't been that long that draft access on tools.ietf.org was retired/redirected to datatracker, that's why i only notice this now. RFCs on datatracker have their xml shown, but that is sourced from rfc-editor. Cheers Toerless From nobody Wed Jun 16 07:28:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68BBC3A1AA0 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:28:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UCczE9xayAa0 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7D623A1A9E for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (85-76-51-31-nat.elisa-mobile.fi [85.76.51.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8EC5560031C; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:28:30 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1623853710; bh=Hki6u4sRFscgOQOfvwNuje+QLAN4zSRBk3vXNLgM9Vw=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=PM4lEqyWuZ7ztj66Fxftku3/EGrOthaK/hn0RYSts9jIk0qCzp87keLxsxwBucQzs 85we3xOgBC8GZelgqK74fbBeNbSgXHwzooMLicSXFlhw6XLWPjRXGOW+jGKpVnxfko phMkdyszW3g/VnysZtkJTpYJih4tPJo1ZmGfbqBM= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <06F3D10F-21F8-4705-8D00-67ADC6018428@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_546C3C7A-737C-4E92-9510-2D6D78EB67AE"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:28:29 +0300 In-Reply-To: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Toerless Eckert References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> X-MailScanner-ID: 8EC5560031C.A3AC5 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:28:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_546C3C7A-737C-4E92-9510-2D6D78EB67AE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2021-6-16, at 17:18, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > e.g.: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-p= lane-27 > (or any other draft for that matter) > shows no xml The [Tracker] link takes you to = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8994/, which has an "XML" button = under "Formats". Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_546C3C7A-737C-4E92-9510-2D6D78EB67AE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmDKCo0ACgkQVLXDCb9w wVceNRAAl80pNJxe4842ON108WkYpC1itkQeBC49TpfduG/G5Qrt/vJhye06FJ5V GitbIG+rj5p2Le3ESUR2n0hfMbUuRD9MbMv6Z5EH860L/GxQx9SJDSZh+NgR4TrB 4FjB6exDBGGZ64xaSi1oofIK2iVkaNlHvxPl+PyAac1VGyHs1/tLHwgvEZmaDAuD w0BOq5pao1uN/tZM56+YSZRQ/x5cueZywqG0MR2ViTHY6/mVsz1O82sbhtKFwyRW uIVWHI4hrtNv76DAd6CFu5Jwyb7h7reAcKTXXaPCJ6G1xtp8A/c8bxSxkpz7YJCt SqaZS4rcNAHnMTHVdFFKmu8rhdnwmKx/L7hP74Ou+sv9CZi3IcVM6gb8xLDfjZOu 9fL8iuRXmrHu61PDapZNPSqFt5OYxs4Uub/a3BZh0/dtpwZV41bdyt5fVYgpou3y /FpF5D+F/YBgRXeXQbjvtBXA7FG2l3a8I3bLkPr/sRhKGazJGQhnX4T/OARBAfMo GNfGF18PWSrtRRkxc0xFQhNms7PQGq+0UdBDs8fCo9lxODuGlCaxQZ7fznzcjXCI GodYsywiFYWTPU/Snh1EMSA+uM7sEPXXW5OvBb0wpF3YsZMAcUbJETY1hXdUfeKd DQfByomiD1GXkTBGPtc5BGqmHRqYT455xoWcbOO8xT0AmtrG71c= =mSgl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_546C3C7A-737C-4E92-9510-2D6D78EB67AE-- From nobody Wed Jun 16 07:31:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E793A1AA5 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:31:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.164 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FAKE_REPLY_C=1.486, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oysjXdCAt7Al for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEB313A1AA2 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2076154806F; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:31:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 1C6D74E779C; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:31:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:31:33 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210616143133.GA12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:31:43 -0000 Thanks, Julian Alas, the answer makes me wonder even more: Where would i find an example of such an IETF draft/RFC rendered with CSS page media attributes ? AFAIK, the older drafts/RFC do not do that, instead they render page breaks explicitly. And the post-reform ones do no contain those media attributes, right ? Even if i had an appropriate attributed html file, i would still not be able to persuade a normal browser to render the html with pagination ?? Cheers Toerless On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 04:14:06AM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > Am 15.06.2021 um 03:12 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > > ... > > But then again, afaik, css could by itself not take the current html and paginate it, so it too has its limits. > > ... > > HTML does support pagination. You just need to use the proper CSS paged > media attributes (such as done by rfc2629.xslt=, and use a tools that > takes advantage of them (such as PrinceXml or WeasyPrint). > > Best regards, Julian > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Wed Jun 16 07:32:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 015BC3A1AA7 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:32:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DXlt05qx-cKQ for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D72643A1AAA for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:32:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623853932; bh=aTJMElRiZaE+abaIfakmVoFZnsY/7jhUnrPk/TrqZQc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=caczgiYK97DhYh/7EqUoR7Q/UCc7k3nV+PbJv4SuaRRvWxHEM2ud016MPDrAqos8u TFof8wGSsGHVpd9h0gnuMxQJvqX6akcQJkj6RRB2HsicoBuZQVwueLEMen2vB6l6zq WkW+k11mYttssKUHBkKLtC5WH/WD1J8g3uhqpdSw= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.55.84]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N8obG-1lGjlq0D7G-015oap for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:32:12 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:32:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:sum5xWKOXp0BKQctIre9P22Y11BeRgPGj8wrJmCSyfdwyyTgKda p6WmbAud/sO53uoCEZXldeLGAI/Z/7qckxMi51EfB0+Am99gOLNOwJ6LaGstChF213oFJFS bYP2KX2uATbOW1S/1d5op76L+Vmrk4Tjf5EZgl/WjtZI40ox0+UQcTVFjQ2XNbSjMdk5lSp oRdlu1e3NKkgxwzfR2HLQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:icD1oNq870M=:FgFBOJloWdmAPSM7C+7PCm XBiEutnxkM4U7GF4m9VThQ64La414QyDtfqVlgKS+C17t6O2iqfScLvG/1LTLKBacLvYNKwrW ZFSMwk3/13iAszNNc3zdAdsrjXWQZM2QQsS2I/vRFjaFjtTYclQ8Sqq5UkLbcrFbAhb1ropuA 3aT5KH/IfuZmZDfjMoL0isPfb9lTk9gF/7YhId4FFJo6Q6U+qN5gvwxq0KW73RW/xr+l0fXlx U3mGyyB9VpfwgnlLag9mpGWv31/aSqHW5QdgR9sPJxVgQcqly4XipFV8fai2cc2wFJFjGwozm VSZhKhnJZKnb4YtOD6lQbPQhE6r8S0784m0/dDuhe1n5ne+yTc8l6SYKSfYrrPCCIR7EBI5+0 esrnjRV7ePSEG2ejYRYTku5tdmlUTJNGq4N8PuZpOY8vNULNKlZsfY5lqGmyJi79AbH3SJafg t3A0BSQy5822zVQfpL8b/TQ6jwsbxT2cKGEYmNCghryPYP9gDt1QWBurcXE9l3ykQ7B7WhVfR 2Tsqiqt7j0i/YYZcEQ7kmVL2HFUSmToCfoJP5PcJSiMSeElar+HX3po0wSc7gVMP306rHYx9m KhLM+HXzzMvEun3DMGIy6H2Lwa2iMZ8g2EYL6osj7EuKZdaDievCkvf2DZpdJL/h56bMY9MvN q84URqHO37JDbRIB773eVr5AC+bL8+k9rnQaeTWwYMmrZsfTiZ+FXWg/+4JIe/u9XM0NjVQEb DV5QdfuFoSqo1FbeTuNv4WsGCJ5Yul4fwl0sFoKgFxN74/3XO1b2uwVWBtogfSym0EaYK/WIs IUTT5paYBBqbv8vgXTCGyNnrc4UVjYel/kLZFy/mKi0UrDRiiBjfe13UwvLcMlYdC1cAgk+1u kSWbofl6DC7A6d1XmqFCcYGLv4rvPTBMbi0ZSi4l27AwsD4zRiBtZRsKSAYZrjnfP/EtShpQU UmzjF0TM5uem8GlmXQ4DB8swWxFm3da2M1RiqLCgGq2uTco1YFSqDjAdHaS1d38DLI4IOO+Na tq9n9CywxZweNfpqrgp0Rs4iJt3zyzI5so0HFpfcW2vZx06OHQXqLUXbsj5Qm74izG1N6/fA5 Ew7d5cxo0zIg6yP4wCZyziPpvD0TfJ0jBAfSdIF8JpYniqa4kEh1WnbsQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:32:22 -0000 Am 16.06.2021 um 16:18 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > Is it possible that the new world of moving from tools.ietf.org to data= tracker.ietf.org > just made it more difficult to get to the XML of IETF drafts ? > > e.g.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-c= ontrol-plane-27 > (or any other draft for that matter) Not true: > shows no xml, and of course i do know there was when this was available = from tools.ietf.org. > ... It's only available if it was submitted by the authors. Was it? Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Jun 16 07:33:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5ED83A1AB2 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:33:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eTgaqTfUZRn1 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60D303A1AAC for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCBCA54804D; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:33:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id C72BA4E779C; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:33:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:33:25 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Lars Eggert Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210616143325.GB12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <06F3D10F-21F8-4705-8D00-67ADC6018428@eggert.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <06F3D10F-21F8-4705-8D00-67ADC6018428@eggert.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:33:38 -0000 Yepp, thats what i said: > RFCs on datatracker have their xml shown, but that is sourced from rfc-editor. I was asking about xml for drafts. Cheers Toerless On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 05:28:29PM +0300, Lars Eggert wrote: > On 2021-6-16, at 17:18, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > > e.g.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-27 > > (or any other draft for that matter) > > shows no xml > > The [Tracker] link takes you to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8994/, which has an "XML" button under "Formats". > > Thanks, > Lars From nobody Wed Jun 16 07:36:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84CA3A1AC5 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:36:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZOt4ixXq1nk6 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B7373A1ACB for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:36:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623854160; bh=TnOEqopUDRJOEF6aW6F4iPQpYWOjNjwrietM8rTWsiE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=EcGrbv3BDxizjQWNobKdapEl5rnnmHE5qQ8t/T7ObxUy1B8HrVR2Iiadm7GpLW+HM P31g9u/M31hpxD+AjctUwBQRMsgkmufnr4/GK60Bp4DFbFc9OEOGIto7YY9yntN8QA QsfKAsKSeTpF9w6BIkg2UsIxuIgDFzTzVTEcBdK0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.55.84]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MMXQF-1lcoqN2ZBX-00JcYL for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:36:00 +0200 From: Julian Reschke To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> Message-ID: <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:36:00 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:JsRiddoNKVniPs7+jEZyadgRQ2BDKapAII9t3AtYjwk9B+D6vjK ZDTsguAFRAtIsJ7Ipoymb7ZQHx4ZBFGjCiy5oZ0z6nVz7hEjnUvHxJ3Rw/ta2B6Ykq2OALa jj1nhxb+7nya4UQiTkK8VfpDeEiPPvmDQV4n6KEGViaKVsXEwLwf5xttBiPX0uY1c7e4wtH 531yKYUz/QteTDtjDFG/A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:jHSl7S2S+Fc=:GIrijazg5xjgyL9rljIBYf t9kNPR36UESVLZBDGTBxllZTCNsTrDET97WaYKW2iGMw0Z0PwqAI0thA4EBb7ioYnnkh62WLa Qy6B1whQO7RrnjEpD3ZGEHtjvQmG3ZISOhpFFEhCIFTIFECsF0LOSy7dWrJgfdVmR02CWYVBv sw43bG03EvSqA72JFQ5jrqzKqh0BXbtWt5vbX4MSOwkCg//LQFt+C7Vz73QK3DfRzB2WOJElw q8Yssm0ZVf1ugsX9PrD5dbSnjwaSh4VEnE7xWlu4pB1/LO7VvuUiwDql8pd1qi+ewbPz+BIXS YWOiIgGw5WHIw0nHaFPr067OE6izZpdLrzJVqKwIY8v+t4CCkW95+vEfjm7OLbVSAaZou09Kq ueu9//6YceeaAZijUvdLJ0kvkkY53GCqsIV9NgShMTmS3x0Pfh5lWRQh9dIs7BxWISjQ+8L66 7MTrijpEPyPzpsH3dkl37mVWbq61ubCv41sxJ0vHWjAOMkQbwONPY7MysYbzBUkDfW8KbBmFS P19GLPK28TIYenDNE3hoL3M8slD6yJ7uevUGHmsxVQmR6Dq7vFjmrwFUM9W+AZVUUw6G8OTA1 9zByoO6+0Ls1HY6MJnOyZt0HXxwp7WzwBqpI9GY21ACATow/v8d7FvU9FgfSSfs6HecfEwE1w UFD0LN26VvezpUv/9W7x97JtjHHU9c0yqCVV3rgNzNPv3HDBHXYNM9IQ1TAZUjRZtChrrVH5d dBgBDDq3gnRyE/FG46edDQOJqxamdb82cMZgpVZNNhI9bZhBx2sXBiF8ZqBZuZCiwxGblxZIa yFMa9zlDbKn6yqZffdaUIA9tgJgFOjcoy+JTa+t27NJCLhnAKARGl/4lbiud/hGVCqdjJlxgv ZkRhICSRAABKUtWJUl+Qzky/iROGfyx+g/BSJ6NZfKB6TWDCAAbZeyz07PznmkO9qoviW0ge6 1kBrvu9l0mF4rdpmiLqjX2Yp9PZxa9jWS6a3hjKMtG1ZhsTksvfPtBnBBhh90t/IZ5RZrglC3 9Ksw/jCR2nBjq/m6l0YzURKCrCsrQoSUBQPtpEE+xyzoG38K6hXMtWYlUt/FZvoc1s8sxmbgP oMXICX2QdDykzDfvK6y4gLBQWu8S1fHwpWI1b1nrfjA3dfTDePWNWRvIQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:36:08 -0000 Am 16.06.2021 um 16:32 schrieb Julian Reschke: > Am 16.06.2021 um 16:18 schrieb Toerless Eckert: >> Is it possible that the new world of moving from=C2=A0 tools.ietf.org t= o >> datatracker.ietf.org >> just made it more difficult to get to the XML of IETF drafts ? >> >> e.g.: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-contro= l-plane-27 >> >> (or any other draft for that matter) > > Not true: > > >> shows no xml, and of course i do know there was when this was >> available from tools.ietf.org. >> ... > > It's only available if it was submitted by the authors. Was it? > > Best regards, Julian Aha. What seems to happen is that the XML link disappears for archived drafts. Try https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-2= 7.xml Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Jun 16 07:40:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF37B3A1AF4 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:40:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yKCab9PCzlmI for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3860E3A1AF2 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:40:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623854397; bh=RrnLJDZgjoH5QFdsmH0uFBCtOcgMPpdcxtzCqUDR17Q=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=RAC7oJkyfz0eGtQve93HPkfB8kmg4cFZxFEEtUQCJEl/qMUA7nTttRBo+wjnB3pZj LgCC2DsnsqR7gl0bpl2K1t9T0BUTWpS9F1UpAnGX431lIpFYFaNqOjT0a0ngKHl8HV q/mFs3upXyZCxiK110I75Jgc8d3lcd3F3Q8mEG2c= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.55.84]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M42nY-1ltWhx27jE-0001gi; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:39:57 +0200 To: Toerless Eckert Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210616143133.GA12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:39:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210616143133.GA12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:BLYxC3gia0qd1WddMzG/+GE9JR/kLA6gQ8pH8P0ihKc3TLM2Yf1 fmbCEsrZBo9OeOCp02IBApShynOq7yyCjRYQoZWOFTDwiZAZzoJ9s7YeUmjlmidTdHr2NDM DeeJCVb4W226A6mA/v+tYra9Ha7LX21qfhVOyYoo2wpZadV2GYSuzNvM4pkn5ASqFgnKH4w dcscs0ZQ2sMVZtwGL0AKw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:G0a3WjaZGP0=:9t/TU9Q9WUxrZ91/1VS/QX rokDF9UqsLgstFR0oTx7JsFGESA2E2pgeDS45EJ4KOHPCkHpaFgkshWn6rXFEiUCnK3fDpAzV OLMl/uTN7WPv+wRjin9YknclYn0Y+8l33XRUnwkOgDaWbIYFsB9lUi1doJigtePUKdUpUTORP eaHG3QgKK6JmRazVzZrUnZBrA1iK0nFCZpU8amqnnkfnkjKaTx4ur0dyWeWphVHJxcpsJENz1 f+KiZLWxW0j1L6bV1I9hxR4IUBloMQrIRjsMbIVtmwcyrz0SbbMiAVf4z7HpMa6E0Y9FzsANh 62/2Y+CDyhXYzUGvD3T0MGuOJpdy2VEMBqvNyShMfwjd5IHLhM+B7WNIo9KbidkNCZPOmqcZc ZTtLAkWLzfD/riiT5rKxFVHU5wMyiMq+NLcGPBJCXLHlbtt142fjwpji6xET0pkkbbzMrBFYt fgOSFVnHrug453/6h3UyjQGVWxACgK1C6oiNJTvmcbEcIFOtc651FsS9gzpnV7j1bWIuqYwaR unwjIplY7QKxnwSjPu3MKCN18gHthBmcBbayLuN8rCqWei7dlIb1u0loHGuAuX1hLKM2T71aR 0lux7IUFOasXe3NeRJzg7sckDPNJm+U63Xx3CeODQJ8p2gate38fc1BNHnh2huFu7YFqhIAxB 5ginxdUHrVS+/yT1b2pUIoin2HMDbO6YnOLFAMLEbuGdb/5a1aQJ4j8hNocXtWv3uyXRtm26c dx1RlvNTyFuclxcIJxzsWomjeO391PqV1fxG1c//V3rXb7TIxf8119/6YRamHGnBD794k+4Kk reSxbDmMTpPkMDHXNYpkyT+hHELJ7HEh9MP/X3JdS9DgG2RPhOdIfKhAiIBXQPJaLL15R1HTB EaIZhiNDf47u3FFND/OoY4OEm/2ADWKodPTfOPTNMSoNRUYQflF6BB0YAUVYdCcW6jPMuNln1 Usy3b/tdwCn93v7c8WCoqfIFJRv9lcum1QdE23bp6YB3YaYVuEHjNgDQ8fetA5RhA5dfBgar2 IakKQEZ4B/onsOR6ZaGytjpCEkO+QYHrnpNsFtl8IIx2vxI7HVhVWyIO7GqJL8+LKokYiCYI9 Ri9FC4fHz9AOPmnLsQWxrT3vIGtFvoggaQ9Liuikba6CVRgg5thfml3Rw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Hyperlinks to sections/subsections in current RFC HTML format X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:40:09 -0000 Am 16.06.2021 um 16:31 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > Thanks, Julian > > Alas, the answer makes me wonder even more: > > Where would i find an example of such an IETF draft/RFC rendered with CS= S > page media attributes ? AFAIK, the older drafts/RFC do not do that, > instead they render page breaks explicitly. And the post-reform ones > do no contain those media attributes, right ? xml2rfc inserts some of these, but not all. rfc2629.xslt does, however. Example HTML output: > Even if i had an appropriate attributed html file, i would still not > be able to persuade a normal browser to render the html with pagination = ?? > ... You could switch to "print preview"; but then, most browsers do ignore most of the "paged media" related CSS. You really need a tool designed for printing/pdfing HTML, such as PrinceXML or WeasyPrint. (you may want to read ) Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Jun 16 07:51:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413BA3A1B6D for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:51:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.95 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3yPiEPWtm-uf for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89FD33A1B77 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 07:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6D354804D; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:51:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 451FC4E779C; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:51:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:51:32 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML and TXT ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:51:46 -0000 Updating subject... Yes, i always submitted the XML. Theory: That draft-ietf-httpbis-cache-16 is not an RFC yet. Seems like datatracker does not offer links to the XML of drafts once they have become RFC. The XML files for drafts do seem to be still directly accessible if you know the path: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-27.xml I would call this a datatracker bug. No XML, no TXT rendering provided for drafts. How the heck am i going to do research work into the past, i often had to do rfcdiff against older drafts. That requires access to draft text versions, it will not work with just the html'ized versions. Do i need to rsync the whole tools.id repo now to do this ?! *sigh* Toerless On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 04:32:10PM +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > Am 16.06.2021 um 16:18 schrieb Toerless Eckert: > > Is it possible that the new world of moving from tools.ietf.org to datatracker.ietf.org > > just made it more difficult to get to the XML of IETF drafts ? > > > > e.g.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-27 > > (or any other draft for that matter) > > Not true: > > > > shows no xml, and of course i do know there was when this was available from tools.ietf.org. > > ... > > It's only available if it was submitted by the authors. Was it? > > Best regards, Julian > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Wed Jun 16 08:09:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A38183A1BDD for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:09:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cj0oObj7bdON for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:211:32ff:fe22:186f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 885963A1BE0 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (85-76-51-31-nat.elisa-mobile.fi [85.76.51.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 191D160031C; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:08:45 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1623856126; bh=Elsc2tpL+27P2xj3brIL0QDuTVa8v+SrxT3medxdbo4=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=PChOO5PU3xr52Kph0JILsQFlLlyy/pPST4MWrhROXz6SQz3gpY2Kz/DzrIis1/igs sNKCWJlRcktc1gGKroWDsHVHD1GWZ8XaNNujitMHZyqB8ize1CVYHGx2YHqscPwNdA xF9y3aDRnnB7qX9wjK0FqWYhcxGtMBQ/CxPlVw38= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_882DB9DF-7E36-4342-A756-D1D1205A18AA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:08:44 +0300 In-Reply-To: <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Toerless Eckert References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> X-MailScanner-ID: 191D160031C.A1451 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML and TXT ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:09:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_882DB9DF-7E36-4342-A756-D1D1205A18AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2021-6-16, at 17:51, Toerless Eckert wrote: > I would call this a datatracker bug. No XML, no TXT rendering provided = for drafts. >=20 > How the heck am i going to do research work into the past, > i often had to do rfcdiff against older drafts. That requires access > to draft text versions, it will not work with just the html'ized = versions. >=20 > Do i need to rsync the whole tools.id repo now to do this ?! >=20 > *sigh* If you think this is a missing feature in the datatracker, please submit = a ticket? https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/newticket Also, I'd like to ask you to adopt a more constructive attitude. Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_882DB9DF-7E36-4342-A756-D1D1205A18AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmDKE/wACgkQVLXDCb9w wVfn4A//VUitSjdppR/W89eHxgaA/ZEmaJGJqvj/JbXc/7AaiFXUQypWMOPyZqW7 lfPv9r0zwLa8ZuragxkB5UVUlUvB+WSNPKlIsrisBk17TSkCHArCss9VyeImcG59 36sZV5wv9JuHysQQqfH7LZQnag06FBDnR4zReNzM6+Qk6l3a+mSoXpPMPMtmLF51 cI+O4+iAvKTNKLDTdZE0cS95Z9DCaKWOEwntVNbVckJxpoZ4QJoiu0DBcvWnlezf 2lXpYBYW5hOpz8tmqUEQBdd/7wjBJ46el7VC8a9+b5UnHAnM1OdVva9OlUXR1DbU OzX0lR/39GgZWPFYjLLG8Xn9Ih4sgmrGbaF/NNnjR88GkH+bv9TMZT/u3YxDwLsz hVCGG7R5a0tQYl4j6uHX+4JYd23gK+VB2zgortGK/Gde4vadY9hGrCNvxjt10Lai iJKX5oqj4zIO4BYrBTqgSe87ExKtAmte/oouNk0zn0kTHgrUGi0phOGx6fG9xpzP m9FFTSb9TEmjV1B+A1rSZ3xJ849k1wrPTnvsaVQd8YbPIzSb7mErU1JGFmCAaj/q LsrYDa8Wo3JtuiU/TEqr79IsKwjKQ+nVzpmXQ46e/D7OgQcLN7VkHx9WutgH2Upf CQdiV2xPjRGtNvvLN4SL7HKTvgmOgky4pBSqjUvQw5MEtkK5Jv4= =HEul -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_882DB9DF-7E36-4342-A756-D1D1205A18AA-- From nobody Wed Jun 16 08:57:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E193A1D7F for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:57:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M0pOHaKzp15J for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92B333A1D76 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G4qZm0CDCz2xHy; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:57:35 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:57:35 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645551855.550998-20c84af94c5ad868fd72fd975d8c1c90 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <77456148-0E76-490A-A065-75BE245FD59B@tzi.org> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML and TXT ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:57:49 -0000 On 2021-06-16, at 16:51, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > Do i need to rsync the whole tools.id repo now to do this ?! I don=E2=80=99t think any Indonesian websites will help here. Run this from your crontab: cd rsync -abvz rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts/ std/id rsync -abvz --exclude '/tar/*' ftp.rfc-editor.org::rfc-ed-all/ std/rfc rsync -avzH rsync.iana.org::assignments std/iana rsync -avzH xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org::xml2rfc.bibxml std/bib rsync -avzH rfc-editor.org::refs std/bib/rfc rsync -a --include=3D/refer\* --exclude=3D"*" std/bib/rfc/ = .cache/xml2rfc kramdown-rfc-cache-i-d-bibxml That will significantly reduce the time you need to click around in = random web interfaces. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jun 16 09:04:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C553A1DC1 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 09:04:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mzsvuovcKZaw for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 09:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E14833A1DBE for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 09:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5E654806E; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 63E5B4E779E; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:04:40 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Lars Eggert Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210616160440.GE12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML and TXT ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:04:55 -0000 On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 06:08:44PM +0300, Lars Eggert wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-6-16, at 17:51, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > I would call this a datatracker bug. No XML, no TXT rendering provided for drafts. > > > > How the heck am i going to do research work into the past, > > i often had to do rfcdiff against older drafts. That requires access > > to draft text versions, it will not work with just the html'ized versions. > > > > Do i need to rsync the whole tools.id repo now to do this ?! > > > > *sigh* > > If you think this is a missing feature in the datatracker, please submit a ticket? https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/newticket Thanks. I was asking yesterday already in another thread and nobody seemed to know the URL, i remember i opened a bunch of cases in the past but couldn't find the URL anymore (bad housekeeping i know) Maybe the URL is a bit hidden... Created: Regresson bug: html'ized text renderings miss hotlinks https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/ticket/3307 Regression: tools->datatracker: no access to drafts XML from datatracker https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/ticket/3308 Regression: tools->datatracker: no access to drafts TXT from datatracker https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietfdb/ticket/3309 Cheers Toerless > Also, I'd like to ask you to adopt a more constructive attitude. From nobody Wed Jun 16 18:38:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD353A1248 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:38:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.65 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l6AASI5Q9f2W for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495FD3A1247 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA2B548045; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 03:38:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id E47FE4E77A7; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 03:38:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 03:38:11 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210617013811.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <77456148-0E76-490A-A065-75BE245FD59B@tzi.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <77456148-0E76-490A-A065-75BE245FD59B@tzi.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML and TXT ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 01:38:24 -0000 On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 05:57:35PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-06-16, at 16:51, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > > Do i need to rsync the whole tools.id repo now to do this ?! > > I don???t think any Indonesian websites will help here. So you are not registering your draft names as domains under .ID ? How lame. Kidding aside: Your rsync list you have does not sync drafts that are not current, e.g.: expired or that have become RFC. Those where the ones i was primarily inquiring about. That full set of past drafts can be synced from rsync.tools.ietf.org::tools.id. Given how tools.ietf.org is likely condemned and/or maybe not maintained well anymore, i just checked: - rsync.ietf.org::id-archive seems to have almost all the same files, just missing very few. - There is also rsync.ietf.org::xml2rfc.bibxml hopefully replacing xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org::xml2rfc.bibxml that you list below. And yes, you and i can use rsync, but do you think that should be the only choice to get to all current and past draft files ? Cheers Toerless > Run this from your crontab: > > cd > rsync -abvz rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts/ std/id > rsync -abvz --exclude '/tar/*' ftp.rfc-editor.org::rfc-ed-all/ std/rfc > rsync -avzH rsync.iana.org::assignments std/iana > rsync -avzH xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org::xml2rfc.bibxml std/bib > rsync -avzH rfc-editor.org::refs std/bib/rfc > rsync -a --include=/refer\* --exclude="*" std/bib/rfc/ .cache/xml2rfc > kramdown-rfc-cache-i-d-bibxml > > That will significantly reduce the time you need to click around in random web interfaces. > > Gre, Carsten -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Wed Jun 16 23:14:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75ED3A0C83 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:14:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1veKeLHaTBAG for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87E3B3A0C82 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G5Bbk0lr8z2xJ9; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 08:14:42 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210617013811.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 08:14:41 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <04C922F6-DC09-45CD-B4B3-2D4AEE26E44A@tzi.org> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <77456148-0E76-490A-A065-75BE245FD59B@tzi.org> <20210617013811.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML and TXT ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 06:14:50 -0000 > Your rsync list you have does not sync drafts that are not current, = e.g.: expired > or that have become RFC. Those where the ones i was primarily = inquiring about. Actually, it does (because it runs periodically, it syncs them while = they are still current). But I agree that doesn=E2=80=99t help if you haven=E2=80=99t been doing = this for a decade or more. > That full set of past drafts can be synced from > rsync.tools.ietf.org::tools.id. Given how tools.ietf.org is likely = condemned > and/or maybe not maintained well anymore, i just checked: >=20 > - rsync.ietf.org::id-archive seems to have almost all the same = files, > just missing very few. >=20 > - There is also rsync.ietf.org::xml2rfc.bibxml hopefully replacing=20= > xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org::xml2rfc.bibxml that you list below. Thanks =E2=80=94 these are useful updates for my list. (Tools team: It would be useful to have some documentation for what these are = supposed to be, beyond the single-line summaries you get with rsync rsync.ietf.org:: ) > And yes, you and i can use rsync, but do you think that should be the > only choice to get to all current and past draft files ? To get all drafts? Yes, rsync is the choice. To get any specific draft, say, in XML form? = https://www.google.com/search?q=3Ddraft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane= -27+xml =E2=9E=94 Tracker =E2=9E=94 Xml Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jun 16 23:48:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ABE73A0E1F for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:48:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2kRXoegPNC8X for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ABD23A0E1C for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:48:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1623912492; bh=4NsDPHX4fCYsy2rn4w0SIk9xH18NeJIqrdYON5tmJpk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=UYJKXV9dF7+hBCXfMJDWucImYqlzDJcvVG6qnmnY0dhOZucvin4mI4zHVGOwijSyM oybVydccETqHpOa4nUVRxvKoT3YlEq7XVCLt4wxqm8nxh7kTmbfhuBBKSFMRoP3lOv j3EU/aRr7bPTVxDIO1x12f2R5Zjj78vtxN8D/i6A= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.54.55]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mf078-1lM4xt452g-00gcZz; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 08:48:12 +0200 To: Carsten Bormann , Toerless Eckert Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <77456148-0E76-490A-A065-75BE245FD59B@tzi.org> <20210617013811.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <04C922F6-DC09-45CD-B4B3-2D4AEE26E44A@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <3ce411d1-1363-9533-9668-5451c01b721e@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 08:48:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <04C922F6-DC09-45CD-B4B3-2D4AEE26E44A@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:q67Zt0E8CpoE2kVdjRygiEaNv/FHfB53NQOopV1Tfwjel+kkxOy sg66tpk2lUN9wGaHmg709+zY7gi/5CfzdZtLncblnz/pvYn9Ph/C1+FjUgfOQFNzcFZUbjF 0aFjKn2LucNajQ1c/P/GmAjB4d4Y9PY0WP03VsZHnsd8fjn3uCrZTGn2DQiYQ5smuA09dEY Fg8YblBT8A1b6RuVTymPA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:wh5UjCDkRcQ=:mk3OdxfPZop8rgBn5qEvnM aeyaBNuQsdUPPag4MFfiCm/P5pWV8uS+dD7i1huDrVuCmqW/EngbPbDEX1yd8mYSsiTPLwXhc NN9G8vblvGJJCgaeR2Z9DWwxb7Px/7usMXA7P6wX/a3QY2Ed/H9VTBO4aopT6VcUR4b4A5bTK UY6wWBzoPBuolDIaowZs+nHxZ4m3ZAeh2wLjsNO1/WX7GNXx4lVHtQShNNCxEZTvjqsyls6Fs 5YbPxay/ve7Dp15KAAoz11q3gMtcfK/KzCWUnsfUd/Hlr8plqji26D8WVwP9qI4nZITXlEuaJ y0n3xWzwvkdJYByt98ZbI8Vm3qt5l5dsY3YkcYNKnVEdTIg5Iix9FTswq/SSaCel9crujsXZ/ RzGJyERsz18yxlpuJkE2BIAkD82MAnvhVDCIJ57deC/purDZ/f6I83pOFif+CKf2pz5HAWMwy XGtd28CTuE/6JWHMShbQwQxxIXtbPVJNfgh5HhHPGuLYavxVSNszxlKLBiAFM+NM6Fy0qeVqX NsIHwq+MLdXPy+YM6/AszW3SEkYiBkwcJliPu5IJ95K1756mQ5kfVStTVIGtCz5MEIJ2l0iqv +pZ9+81RK534NxBxbRCeLnvPTT6MkCyXAZOq7rUEk162Efb6/ZyPBtm4dEoJ3nxILuJOj7iv2 NRNulXBNjd32GIs7Td968ScQcZM3bxDtK8qviMYl1r6BbB4DAFo480I2q4HTqJulXKnOr5zQY KJINsaUCrMd8r5BYls9FjlAsmbP06/KO9jBaJhjbPksRbL9XlrcQyPTqZPoajkPu1Kjt6Uij9 OatGi+ZiIAeS5V1wnzDLolfy7nAvqSuGgVg38lqEd8lwCpCvRRTx+gPUGcnyfXoGXh9FD8L/K S8GYypZnH25ynamDJwtU4EiZvcMyMQhSwjnh5H6sCdRR8c/iG2FwOwFXYu02YHZ1WXGav+3BQ KvTUGGeB6gOrgE/nmSSbrHWqMQP4hQFaDW3IWLzbGYe+Nfb9aKsD2DdyFueUvGvD+eHeg4tDl kWBhAJVE97dszKOT3uL+O+UhQ/RlUAajR8vaTHdixgT/nHUFXCPbNLQRVdklxaEecLCMJsyHq AlsBA/O80zJScUlznROjAcgaWU2EjZp2DyySVEGnolJHHWG3UdiKTgNWQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML and TXT ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 06:48:33 -0000 Am 17.06.2021 um 08:14 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > ... > To get any specific draft, say, in XML form? > > https://www.google.com/search?q=3Ddraft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-pla= ne-27+xml > =E2=9E=94 > Tracker > =E2=9E=94 > Xml Yes, but that's what's broken right now. XML is only linked for RFCs and current drafts. Best regards, Julian From nobody Thu Jun 17 02:14:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0743A11DE for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 02:14:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BgTY6uCcXjty for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 02:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3C033A0909 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 02:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G5GZj2WgCz2xJ9; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:14:05 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <3ce411d1-1363-9533-9668-5451c01b721e@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:14:04 +0200 Cc: Toerless Eckert , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645614044.9531929-ffc5f7ed5430353ffbb577bfd887a242 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <45FFDD5E-19FF-4550-8AE9-FF21F1F9B382@tzi.org> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <20210616145132.GC12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <77456148-0E76-490A-A065-75BE245FD59B@tzi.org> <20210617013811.GN12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <04C922F6-DC09-45CD-B4B3-2D4AEE26E44A@tzi.org> <3ce411d1-1363-9533-9668-5451c01b721e@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML and TXT ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 09:14:13 -0000 On 2021-06-17, at 08:48, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> = https://www.google.com/search?q=3Ddraft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane= -27+xml >> =E2=9E=94 >> Tracker >> =E2=9E=94 >> Xml >=20 > Yes, but that's what's broken right now. XML is only linked for RFCs = and > current drafts. >=20 > Best regards, Julian Got it. (I had missed the fact that the tracker link doesn=E2=80=99t point to = the specific version.) Now if I could figure out why = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-2= 7.xml is a 404 in Safari (with =E2=80=9Cnot found=E2=80=9D page), but not in = Chrome, and curl -I says $ curl -I = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-2= 7.xml HTTP/2 200 date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 09:07:25 GMT content-type: text/xml last-modified: Thu, 02 Jul 2020 12:52:54 GMT etag: W/"60775-5a974e310b908-gzip" vary: Accept-Encoding strict-transport-security: max-age=3D31536000; preload x-xss-protection: 1; mode=3Dblock x-content-type-options: nosniff content-security-policy: frame-ancestors 'self' ietf.org *.ietf.org = meetecho.com *.meetecho.com gather.town *.gather.town x-frame-options: ALLOW-FROM ietf.org *.ietf.org meetecho.com = *.meetecho.com gather.town *.gather.town access-control-allow-origin: * access-control-allow-headers: * cf-cache-status: HIT age: 66843 expires: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:07:25 GMT cache-control: public, max-age=3D3600 cf-request-id: 0abad2bc0f00004e44deac1000000001 expect-ct: max-age=3D604800, = report-uri=3D"https://report-uri.cloudflare.com/cdn-cgi/beacon/expect-ct" server: cloudflare cf-ray: 660b20a678ff4e44-FRA Oh. Safari says: [Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of = 404 () (rfc2629.xslt, line 0) And shows *that* error page. The wonders of the Web. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Jun 17 19:12:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA713A3766 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 19:12:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bnGgqVRlIGzE for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 19:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E2D53A3764 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 19:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id q16so7173182qkm.9 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 19:11:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4yfzDzaIdOeDnUzC0WACwtzmPYPVv0ivqQ2T+UBGxu8=; b=Ek6T2Lk9oqXoNt3LMW0JpTcBdmJWuSoNeF03WRwGhlm7J3ljUZc/NJV6+GUg7MaoSS ionE3mpEfleZihOc4z17VwRZRwqvQZPh2S/Qy/cmp63BhWLJfUwe0U5JfADE6pW9jpzk pqlBZia4YXtZOqkTQpv95RYz7aSsU55wdd6GvM/QTzxRU2/aZXNFKR9/sLe7aGkx9T2C JhWec8EvsNte7Ibbfo7r5vH9Ar02D/gsZbQFv6XmB4ZyLFyD+HlSsCU2FE4/ztE58DeO x8vSPIQJk8FNP0C01XmjLINTpbPW6e/NaH1ZKM2BPy9Eg1XHDdccMrSPG3jZEFU5ncAB zeQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4yfzDzaIdOeDnUzC0WACwtzmPYPVv0ivqQ2T+UBGxu8=; b=bnUJ9DLSEhOoH8uAS2hYmeR0sBCTxO+S/DuV9ooceRyp4sKBWmeYTPJq4x9iajfi5t DtKKTneMv5mJGolaOcwmLWDmWNoDgBp4+jmIxdMidjbW0pHnM1xF+QHpa3oB3LFiGYd8 EdGdwW9SfLBG7mIFVOmPZpJIRtBlExX8Lt3FBEjAGxfFZVB2SKGFdfQLMPF1KJm6cCmn Ti4wvfXdYb+InvmRWoFbB/uXmKBggTLoTFZBYYvG4Ev9ACu3qrycFAGcOp7hfGfYZQ2P hnKk1zczwxS/SiRa+zJltBhf11Y2RAFNub7vkP5f3CV9gZfcyQSh2N+rB68nWyEpSXuP Rr+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533GrXkF0+uyKhKdsM3qGHecfoP+KvTk69P0++BLdc19dLrF24pI EHCTVTNENW6DHCQCVEP6IUr0IOE5M6sCkoPYr+k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyrFqnGEP3SrMxRxKLRvLweNZmm1D3n3ItiI8FgX2J/uYkkaFaSG2JwvLe4e0+AIkXx6dB9QNI3TI/1GVcKjJM= X-Received: by 2002:a25:ad41:: with SMTP id l1mr10549797ybe.380.1623982316944; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 19:11:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 21:11:30 -0500 Message-ID: To: Julian Reschke Cc: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001f80de05c500d9b6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 02:12:04 -0000 --0000000000001f80de05c500d9b6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'm doing my best to ask the smartest stupid questions I can phrase ... :-) On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 9:36 AM Julian Reschke wrote: > > Aha. > > What seems to happen is that the XML link disappears for archived drafts. > > Try > > > > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-27.xml So, I happen to have added two new references (in kramdown-rfc2629, but let's not talk about my tool choices for now). They are I-D.hurst-quic-rtp-tunnelling: I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic: I-D.hurst-quic-rtp-tunnelling: works fine - it's not expired (yet). I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic: is a couple of years old, so expired, and gives me roughly spencer@Spencer-Dell:/mnt/c/users/spencer/documents/github/rtp-quic-sdp$ make cat draft-dawkins-rtp-quic-sdp.md | kramdown-rfc2629 --v3 | lib/add-note.py | xml2rfc -q -s 'Setting consensus="true" for IETF STD document' --rfc-base-url https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/ --id-base-url https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/ --cache=/home/spencer/.cache/xml2rfc --v2v3 /dev/stdin -o /dev/stdout >draft-dawkins-rtp-quic-sdp.xml Traceback (most recent call last): 5: from /usr/local/bin/kramdown-rfc2629:23:in `
' 4: from /usr/local/bin/kramdown-rfc2629:23:in `load' 3: from /var/lib/gems/2.7.0/gems/kramdown-rfc2629-1.4.15/bin/kramdown-rfc2629:467:in `' 2: from /var/lib/gems/2.7.0/gems/kramdown-2.3.1/lib/kramdown/document.rb:116:in `method_missing' 1: from /var/lib/gems/2.7.0/gems/kramdown-2.3.1/lib/kramdown/converter/base.rb:109:in `convert' /var/lib/gems/2.7.0/gems/kramdown-2.3.1/lib/kramdown/converter/base.rb:109:in `encode!': U+00F6 from UTF-8 to US-ASCII (Encoding::UndefinedConversionError) Error: Unable to parse the XML document: /dev/stdin make: *** [lib/main.mk:69: draft-dawkins-rtp-quic-sdp.xml] Error 1 make: *** Deleting file 'draft-dawkins-rtp-quic-sdp.xml' spencer@Spencer-Dell:/mnt/c/users/spencer/documents/github/rtp-quic-sdp$ (I know this, because I tried adding them one at a time) If the expired draft is the one that blows up, is that perhaps related to the discussion about the XML link disappearing for archived drafts? I checked where Julian pointed me, and https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic-01.xml does exist there. Best, Spencer --0000000000001f80de05c500d9b6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm doing my best to ask the smartest= stupid questions I can phrase ... :-)

=
On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 9:36 AM Julia= n Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.d= e> wrote:

Aha.

What seems to happen is that the XML link disappears for archived drafts.
Try


https://www.ietf.org/= archive/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-27.xml
=

So, I happen to have added two new references (in kramd= own-rfc2629, but let's not talk about my tool choices for now).

They are=C2=A0

=C2=A0 I-D.hurst-= quic-rtp-tunnelling:
=C2=A0 I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic:

=C2=A0 I-D.hurs= t-quic-rtp-tunnelling: works fine - it's not expired (yet).=C2=A0
= =C2=A0 I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic: is a couple of years old, so expire= d, and gives me roughly=C2=A0

spencer@Spencer-Dell:/mnt/c/users/spencer/docum= ents/github/rtp-quic-sdp$ make =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
cat d= raft-dawkins-rtp-quic-sdp.md =C2=A0| kramdown-rfc2629 --v3 | lib/add-note.p= y | xml2rfc -q -s 'Setting consensus=3D"true" for IETF STD do= cument' --rfc-base-url https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/ --id-base-url https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/<= /a> --cache=3D/home/spencer/.cache/xml2rfc --v2v3 /dev/stdin -o /dev/stdout= >draft-dawkins-rtp-quic-sdp.xml
Traceba= ck (most recent call last):=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A05: from /usr/local/bin/kramdown-rfc2629:2= 3:in `<main>' =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4: from /usr/local/bin/kramdow= n-rfc2629:23:in `load' =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3: from /var/lib/gems/2.7.0/ge= ms/kramdown-rfc2629-1.4.15/bin/kramdown-rfc2629:467:in `<top (required)&= gt;' =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2: from /var/lib/gems/2.7.0/gems/kramdown-2.3.1= /lib/kramdown/document.rb:116:in `method_missing' =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01: from /var/lib/gems/2.7.0/gems/kramdown-2.3.1/= lib/kramdown/converter/base.rb:109:in `convert' =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0/v= ar/lib/gems/2.7.0/gems/kramdown-2.3.1/lib/kramdown/converter/base.rb:109:in= `encode!': U+00F6 from UTF-8 to US-ASCII (Encoding::UndefinedConversio= nError) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0
Error: Unable to parse the XML= document: /dev/stdin =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2= =A0make: *** [lib/main.mk:69: draft-dawki= ns-rtp-quic-sdp.xml] Error 1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=
make: *** Deleting file 'draft-dawkins-rtp-q= uic-sdp.xml' =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
spencer@Spencer-Dell:/= mnt/c/users/spencer/documents/github/rtp-quic-sdp$=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0

(I know this, because I tried adding them one at a time)

If the expired draf= t is the one that blows up, is that perhaps related to the discussion about= the XML link disappearing for archived drafts?

I checked where Julian pointe= d me, and=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-rtpfolks-qui= c-rtp-over-quic-01.xml does exist there.=C2=A0

Best,

Spencer
--0000000000001f80de05c500d9b6-- From nobody Thu Jun 17 20:15:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C95B3A3977 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 20:15:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 70NFnHKZEk1H for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 20:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 429913A396F for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 20:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G5kZ80dPcz2xGy; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:15:12 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_02F98950-105A-4B6E-B231-786C75DAC2B7" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:15:10 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , Tools Team Discussion Message-Id: <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 03:15:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_02F98950-105A-4B6E-B231-786C75DAC2B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 18. Jun 2021, at 04:11, Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >=20 > I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic Probably less about being expired that about being old enough to have a = charset problem. I can=E2=80=99t reproduce that, though. Can you send me the reference.I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic.xml that = is in .refcache (or in ~/.cache/xml2rfc)? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten --Apple-Mail=_02F98950-105A-4B6E-B231-786C75DAC2B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = 18. Jun 2021, at 04:11, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic

Probably less about being expired that about being = old enough to have a charset problem.
I can=E2=80=99t reproduce = that, though.
Can you send me the = reference.I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic.xml that is in .refcache (or = in ~/.cache/xml2rfc)?

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

= --Apple-Mail=_02F98950-105A-4B6E-B231-786C75DAC2B7-- From nobody Fri Jun 18 02:50:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23D83A0AF1 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 02:50:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O_xsLV62E_tc for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 02:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C85C3A0AEE for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 02:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G5vKY0N89z2xJF; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 11:49:53 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 11:49:52 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , Tools Team Discussion X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645702592.46561-a852ace8b0518c329d599e50e7550494 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 09:50:01 -0000 On 2021-06-18, at 05:15, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On 18. Jun 2021, at 04:11, Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >>=20 >> I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic >=20 > Probably less about being expired that about being old enough to have = a charset problem. > I can=E2=80=99t reproduce that, though. > Can you send me the reference.I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic.xml that = is in .refcache (or in ~/.cache/xml2rfc)? Well, before I get that, I note that my cached copy of that says = =E2=80=9CJoerg=E2=80=9D and the one I get now from datatracker says = =E2=80=9CJ=C3=B6rg=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 =C3=B6 is U+00F6. So we do have a smoking gun here. (1) I need to find out why the beyond-ASCII character causes a problem = for you. (2) People should be alert that we have non-transliterated names in = references now (even expired ones), and there might be interesting = consequences. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jun 18 03:05:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80B43A0BDA for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 03:05:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KB_bAJH1lCG7 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 03:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A05133A0BFD for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 03:05:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1624010706; bh=HVIveBH/zCHMlJiE9OolWFgogiOlWuJK3vCheuFd5s8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=CC7f0z+7SIIi6RxGxyw39hjanmqa+Pq6gSjkgaveOeKrHfEs4Wpcaeyk4FHEINyRm 44BUv+Jma/YENnO/irJe2Lw2vEknCP3VN/g9y2wacRjhkJ8nm8Z8c7ZtrlBofXKNR/ CfoYqmsBjZPBLu2fnXqbSvW/KggzdcXDJXgKDr5k= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.51.251]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MaJ3t-1lorln26pJ-00WHLp; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 12:05:06 +0200 To: Carsten Bormann , Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: Tools Team Discussion References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 12:05:03 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:mOlj7nMg6WeeRqONt7Z1f1Vehjx0kOfFpH+pxEnoAgfVptsOnip sMBzegyXzHv72KihQRtcksspfIsUN0zLikWVXHPeTgHGqlI+OnAXzlcpC4qpDDlbAUTI57j 4SfvtIzX55797Mqme/ilK0ni8qECsvKnMAK2ksvEGklJxPcJpHOc+rxrMDwOxnab3Lzqmn6 RspIyzsjuCAH95r8Yting== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:bM/yPP7SFiU=:AiWqz3sK4269tH2gC2Am4j 4FCG4YqmYwR1+TE+bFOfx+39ELLEk8TI5AblVcOFM6fnPacV1+UT8JjpJxXGouLutFY7fuHut JCY7df0mtK5/nRVTDtkUEoHIHU0xvpqUsrWy9YRmP5uG5kuv3cieSwjni5Gu9kALeJzWB4PVL ZM3f2mtNVwBbkUjCcNb3Q7fV6TKe+nLvZwK1HDtk9jH2GOO+pOBpcr+mmoPtRQgwr9NJ2TXvX cLib5mUKnojhoWnb3N0F7Jg0Tpwn/1l0maNBGwEHSmKNTFqI0+0RMnwJnn7JKsAuofmfNmCP9 9AeKcDAoq0UFIs92oIC9KRhQSTre3w/8m2ejCeHRA6NWqb0Jr/hAo8+X0dbgDhsmzuCNNkTUM /6Unhm3by5pnKEivDA2mY/VxpPOckClwUgpEw+26DgjLWnUSxxWcEujCJt4iVVVUS1eJpuB/u hziNqyJw3C0tIAJfydRxnvbkevX1RieWXm9zEP8GlyDsvVAsavTtN4nJnvnSNWsNbLo5fdRYx gFQaFlSMsNUP4m30kaGWM11cOmSo3xjCOuvBOdUAdxeqoze24/EuT4dOq0OAQ0eUfYT9T2K8o cZwLwIKhAd9I6yptlBnwJ0fHkpB9aSilL/tmeVm78Y/6dOo7/nsPg2b1wlz7OToMULkeol/Ts hsTItYn9p9om4f1CTmNWelAAHr+6w8KUo3JOPL3aOZE5slT/tNORDSkPgImIET8yitTwacs6w 9al5ZhwqGNJ2KHCdziOQeTRK9Cx4bn2UNk540Akr0SaGJo6iHwxoqstJ8ED/X2OEP4HJfAVCF V5crrqEnovEQNQPX9347nArpgHYnu2NUMAwkLu21kQ416X9b3KEwpGMJinKFoGrJHObpUe5FW jML9KIonzjHU+nCSagtGuBCYInbpQGsId8dJOs/luSj3+MEZbC7pJfnMXF5UDMawb8fz/Ukkf 5pQpAkTPN/nnKVLPjWBO4EAH+XZqK/aGV6V/lyOLOxNWSOS+ecVzO+0Wf/4E73rg1nrThwGEj fStjP8bw4S10b4X46qZnxarzPcMAhPGXpSnsWyfwVxUt+MKIzDIQMuPX2D7i6kAKVQI8s7YiT 605Nu5z6ZxXbp/+0pMS/G8Pq11qDMB8GwXO Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:05:24 -0000 Am 18.06.2021 um 11:49 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > On 2021-06-18, at 05:15, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> >> On 18. Jun 2021, at 04:11, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: >>> >>> I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic >> >> Probably less about being expired that about being old enough to have a= charset problem. >> I can=E2=80=99t reproduce that, though. >> Can you send me the reference.I-D.rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic.xml that = is in .refcache (or in ~/.cache/xml2rfc)? > > Well, before I get that, I note that my cached copy of that says =E2=80= =9CJoerg=E2=80=9D and the one I get now from datatracker says =E2=80=9CJ= =C3=B6rg=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 =C3=B6 is U+00F6. > > So we do have a smoking gun here. > > (1) I need to find out why the beyond-ASCII character causes a problem f= or you. > > (2) People should be alert that we have non-transliterated names in refe= rences now (even expired ones), and there might be interesting consequence= s. > ... We had those before, and, unless I'm missing something, that change was supposed to be reverted... Best regards, Julian From nobody Fri Jun 18 03:36:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047AB3A0E1B for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 03:36:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cIkaeMifcZQ1 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 03:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 596363A0E1A for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 03:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G5wLs0VWHz2xJY; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 12:36:05 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 12:36:04 +0200 Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Tools Team Discussion X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645705364.576337-b012b75a2762bf82a838c5d40e5283f4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7B0FA048-523F-4E11-A966-39E418C60FE4@tzi.org> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:36:12 -0000 On 2021-06-18, at 12:05, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > We had those before, and, unless I'm missing something, that change = was > supposed to be reverted=E2=80=A6 Not sure I still believe that. The bibxml files need to be useful in a v2 and a v3 environment; I = don=E2=80=99t think that either has a problem with Latin names. = (Kramdown-rfc in =E2=80=9Ccoding: ascii=E2=80=9D mode has a problem, but = that may simply no longer be a useful mode of operation.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jun 18 04:24:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E804F3A1102 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:24:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id plqkbMWByY_n for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E28AA3A1101 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:24:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1624015453; bh=EyVgDOcweW9DazOH24d3VfurQohAXYV+NhswQRG9gQs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=gJOu6MOVxA/SR+Q7KB7VMawiGjVcjSrMrgfriNSTznv9oL/rot1Ub9ZaqNxNJD2Xp VR+aUa3kAdPKpOq9FyMLDRWGQumPVEkHBt1tZEfwbq2IgA5zhtJVB07ZoLzByYFygl 2+GK7QSJ6B2Sdqx7yF0FMAUwvgw1ERjiPKI+Cv7c= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.51.251]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M6lpG-1lvscl2Ef8-008G0O; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 13:24:13 +0200 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Tools Team Discussion References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> <7B0FA048-523F-4E11-A966-39E418C60FE4@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <13f04661-586a-9642-1d07-607a8765ef58@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 13:24:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7B0FA048-523F-4E11-A966-39E418C60FE4@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:YDFja1ez3jezq19gEtSC16SdmQV8zaRdkNn+dbr+9Z6lmWRmXJP w4oylZd81clIlOtFtsWnN3M6DaidE6T+MBLshwmfTWaHaNAaaDprfaKyR1WClmJN6euo2y8 IqqU60gzDEP8mRYaYrzr2UEDPZjf5p+ekQ7X5gdbeJmVpQka/dZZSSph7TVrMskYyT19vzn 5QDZ90SUeR/wjyzkMx1RQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:05L1YM66AQ8=:uZK83qVLZ2DiCxxjqNkPAa EcRqoY39kPRtVcdS1iD+jRusbR1evwGjjPsmYWQ8arIaZJNdyQUBNLV4gSYoKyo7bT860RzpA m/lHcxMPdbG/Gb9hF8HpKZzWIivNg2GBxAV2ON3HUuu9hn8QDgd804AEsIdrIeCV8Arf3XEfj Z7YV1IYtrAFV83br79/Nkh+rPFrQjLbKutgQZWs4lbYzciyw0v0DRRhF1MCZtJTDP6OMX12X7 8PqsGvWuCFUdrWGjBN0SAgHRtYJithQvuEodHGFrjZRpL7EdHLqoXxbYgcYLf26/VeEzeyb6i IG/kIyj1u7LoLgPtUMYLgdulmn203n1hbcIzcxVkeZsAPV3Cc5MCMiRmQcxaIcLjyXpc1mwPE e1rE2HYFcd8LVQheytFhCIQ+Uj04tiIV8O4yPRx+Hj6xhMzODbfOylBs/Sq6ad5uwkTbgCzu8 OySrCcAvKwGVTv3NiejCihAQgHgHjnrXBXkb1w9K2G67B0P1qN/ePAJ1o7/5WX4sj2q5n5jd7 5mlVUTqecpfkTqMd4bAAL3f3P/lzlbQpFkkwWyfbF91ZJjMZfbSDgd+AjN6O+86P/ui8jMEBa 5FStjJnRnlBaoHK5S5F7yOr+DAeMiQt3RHdXznABEnIs60nBwE76NDo+AQtby0BGBMkt/BOaE EqKheDrQdhTDLtVqHDJTV198svtlFaRCVbofu7YMxB6H+yaIsXRpTj9I9LbFiNyTM4b1NPoJg 7AxqSJuCGu8448DFf6+sWPM5i1RP10cnPdDjiziJ2QVl6g5s1hjuRduYfFyrromNQ5ZQeAHYz pJgiTpn0TPKQZ6kIKZYE5ecHvGqCcgYPrOy/+jmaYs0zFAtCovi1x2H8OsZtucrtfm7zaeqBn zPHpc9LNXrGe7BlIwc2QE1MHNd2mghtyLJr8Q3nQImaf7dVZpQWxJpEe+RPldDsmVxYTf7Wen 7Mj074DSmWur40imKtE20DpX2hN18b+XubhgAWDmUBd7aHJrLeLFivMtec9UQfUHQ3yaaKUAu 5Kk2OJnHTz25AdhtAiJAcQFYmQD1jYg+qqRtDfwshx6Jm1TSrMvNYMOVSmazZ2OmNEKs5qmd7 X7cFac+Vkehpbh+p0Dm9xDBjKtjdNFM/npyM79llqf8X/bciKK9CDm6hQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 11:24:31 -0000 Am 18.06.2021 um 12:36 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > On 2021-06-18, at 12:05, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >> We had those before, and, unless I'm missing something, that change was >> supposed to be reverted=E2=80=A6 > > Not sure I still believe that. > > The bibxml files need to be useful in a v2 and a v3 environment; I don= =E2=80=99t think that either has a problem with Latin names. (Kramdown-rf= c in =E2=80=9Ccoding: ascii=E2=80=9D mode has a problem, but that may simp= ly no longer be a useful mode of operation.) Wasn't there agreement that the reference files should reflect how the names are actually spelled on the referenced document? Best regards, Julian From nobody Fri Jun 18 04:29:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 605973A1137 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:29:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id amGcygAHIiV0 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 081AF3A1135 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G5xXp5k2hz2xHg; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 13:29:46 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <13f04661-586a-9642-1d07-607a8765ef58@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 13:29:46 +0200 Cc: Tools Team Discussion X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645708586.351871-8b3cd44b0a001f44b2983fad21992dfb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> <7B0FA048-523F-4E11-A966-39E418C60FE4@tzi.org> <13f04661-586a-9642-1d07-607a8765ef58@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 11:29:54 -0000 On 2021-06-18, at 13:24, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > Wasn't there agreement that the reference files should reflect how the > names are actually spelled on the referenced document? OK, got it. The notable thing for tools authors is that this indeed sets us up for a = future where bibxml files are no longer pure-ASCII, so heroic attempts = to support pre-UTF-8 working environments completely stop making sense. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jun 18 04:54:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBDBF3A1247 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:54:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v0l0wfrGNSDC for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x730.google.com (mail-qk1-x730.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::730]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF523A1244 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x730.google.com with SMTP id f70so10172912qke.13 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:54:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=knQhcvOG4TlSCEVnqiOaFwifp2Fbb7ecOY4ZM81Yz+k=; b=GJku99gaT5a2kUvYX51Q+IQPEOW80QlUvwKN7YM3N3hEwCDuUloOPFTrcVEOKwBq3W 7n+7lfGqH+jRE7lsvSdUg0mgQeHIVHAajtGDhVW4oanC1ww7+5XFniRI8px4x2ZVF8Iw MPdvkhp/9ta7yiumNafxy4cJZlxchck0YxUP3sLo7XtmXeZqmT9zHDv41d2hNuHW+XKv nZNWfJLpGxrVlTFeLDrizJ8RSJiEs3jpxDOBP5zog0NChwosgbdXHkTIdXDaaTgf9lak eaqEnj8umn602weEVsDvPoiZXqV8VAqhoXtDhW0wngFyLIy++sJd7p9HahG9bO+zzdhU ZUNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=knQhcvOG4TlSCEVnqiOaFwifp2Fbb7ecOY4ZM81Yz+k=; b=XNxuzBTAEIV7G70VH0yOvovRfRWg2RE466Hhuu/AMfQv6XMlsEOONTROo9zpTwUksD syNeSlxwXOatqdpPZMqZvCbz5uhvMWMRTUMlWkmMC35heVm2DHQu76sWNrpiFm7Ivlwz F9zMWePoC4aRb81bTSNtrKqqHwqI8A916ja4xeVfgfEwGYpJLUNN2rBValWIFrUuQTHg ohzyLB1xf9wPAjjFain3O88qLLXUUX2RRa39xjBb4OI//RjODz6kYSWb+hAGuVzbFOAz YRzCsMg7abGf7vCoL4hbtoWoD3SVvgCsIEMj3x6ANs04mTJQ0p+TQeAmKcDYKEhatr2O KkxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533u7ikoAihv7AhbUdoCAm5WrqJTrWNgDoaKuZRRm+fb+4nuJPRO eNl+FcBcD+OFGnrIO3LBO6ixVcxw978QHCAFpNA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyWNyDScFwshUXOBeQE1Coh76Bzmi/rpDBlpACN6ZZjsQSvDE/6zDCA452SCoNHIE6jnb9+8mX34cZ/KCMVDlU= X-Received: by 2002:a25:f446:: with SMTP id p6mr13310007ybe.288.1624017276816; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 04:54:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> <7B0FA048-523F-4E11-A966-39E418C60FE4@tzi.org> <13f04661-586a-9642-1d07-607a8765ef58@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 06:54:10 -0500 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Julian Reschke , Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000e5070105c508fccd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 11:54:43 -0000 --000000000000e5070105c508fccd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e506ff05c508fccb" --000000000000e506ff05c508fccb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Carsten, Thank you and Julian for the clues! I don't seem to have the character strings "ascii" or "coding:" in my local repository directory, including "not in my markdown". My markdown is attached. You' may be curious about this - I'm running kramdown version 2.3.1 kramdown-rfc2629 version 1.4.15 xml2rfc version 3.8.0 gem version 3.1.2 ruby version 2.7.0p0 (and, obviously other software, but I don't think it got that far) Best, Spencer On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 6:30 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-06-18, at 13:24, Julian Reschke wrote: > > > > Wasn't there agreement that the reference files should reflect how the > > names are actually spelled on the referenced document? > > OK, got it. > > The notable thing for tools authors is that this indeed sets us up for a > future where bibxml files are no longer pure-ASCII, so heroic attempts to > support pre-UTF-8 working environments completely stop making sense. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.or= g > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > --000000000000e506ff05c508fccb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Carsten,

Thank you and Julian for the clues!

I don= 't seem to have the character strings "ascii" or "coding= :" in my local repository directory, including "not in my markdow= n".=C2=A0

My markdown is attached.
=
You' may be curious about this - I'm running=C2=A0

kramdown version 2.3.1
kramdown-rfc2629 v= ersion 1.4.15
xml2rfc version 3.8.0
gem version 3.1.2
ruby version 2.7.0p0

(and, obviously othe= r software, but I don't think it got that far)

Best,

Spencer

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 6:30 AM Cars= ten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:=
On 2021-06-18, = at 13:24, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Wasn't there agreement that the reference files should reflect how= the
> names are actually spelled on the referenced document?

OK, got it.

The notable thing for tools authors is that this indeed sets us up for a fu= ture where bibxml files are no longer pure-ASCII, so heroic attempts to sup= port pre-UTF-8 working environments completely stop making sense.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

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(p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G5y9g2nyHz2xJV; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 13:58:15 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 13:58:14 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , Tools Team Discussion X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645710294.382189-eee88cfc7af9a1c4c15bd3bc964dcd4f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> <7B0FA048-523F-4E11-A966-39E418C60FE4@tzi.org> <13f04661-586a-9642-1d07-607a8765ef58@gmx.de> To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 11:58:20 -0000 > On 2021-06-18, at 13:54, Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >=20 > I don't seem to have the character strings "ascii" or "coding:" in my = local repository directory, including "not in my markdown".=20 Actually, it says: coding: us-ascii (line 13). Commenting out that line make it work for me. Clearly, it doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to have an option the main = semantics of which now is to break the build. May I ask: Where did you get that =E2=80=9Ccoding: us-ascii=E2=80=9D = line from? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jun 18 05:16:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FACB3A135A for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:16:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D0_LUu82nSCg for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06D1D3A1360 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id q16so10344072qkm.9 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:16:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mAJkJ44ERrbV2ZSiy6eOzF+Aqo259toEqiSZVLR1p/Y=; b=pXohAnrRvz7qix2XwgK1sC9js+6WepbCTKdAZFvZWW8sXeQlI6KQJDqVCVBHzGBDqD vnISuO6HqLubmB0QBTr3kdfwODwS+S1Zh8mDirZ13bpmm37P6EDuKMqUro1jDEBcit0E vMgvfvwfWQVcigW9wDzQbjptp1w4PmNZ611BDRT2JMDvrfCF/9rGagwsKl8U2X1m5iKV jhnjNoEuwvIoY+WgUfTS+2u309yG7o+wXO7TAKS7KrPbDhe/keEr9SLfD8EWMAdpwikZ nx6R3PYFpZ/vzpEiY/553yeAhd4DSp184bbFeqJZNjSPR4Znuwa3VTJTOdxSLStmOtau NnCw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mAJkJ44ERrbV2ZSiy6eOzF+Aqo259toEqiSZVLR1p/Y=; b=cdvelBYzcebUIlQndyUk/JOr+SnKaosBbntXKaZHETRXwXUa0QAucL8JAx0DS7Njp8 5KU0j/fBuQ9rqo2T6SpERqYOqQgM+DIRabn/xMu/vyssuqWDC/F/Kz1luWDP+1UFfhkQ F8NCN7yaHUkgXf/hosHuQ9LIhvYkaNDJP4oxdp0z66CexO/zVeFgScktTJh1eLo48s5k xNYgTMBhbad2QbQoCIIW0rEOsHQv/s+O8vX7rLkxtnqnQsVXJzhsysrWuK6lTu6qA3Sg SM8gTXxLzHzJFjV/RyT/wgfBvhlpFxviNNVLzk1QWW3iUoXDfqoOlbF7aGwxXwanYY8C St8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532T21fSuJIxzchGmrQOzvQA+iTpV3eKIJDLnhQfQ4RIGPdvmy3K YY3XbhEqXluQiRDyXdFMV5ic0pASxHEXSP3/39U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7aq1rLxLTNdnl8sw01AOsY0pXK1PSnQuVcD7GLmArlaeXz3O0rxs4Y5xxVBsgrwEgqhZtvMNVHooQr9li7jg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:f81a:: with SMTP id u26mr13497512ybd.389.1624018577494; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:16:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> <7B0FA048-523F-4E11-A966-39E418C60FE4@tzi.org> <13f04661-586a-9642-1d07-607a8765ef58@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 07:15:51 -0500 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Julian Reschke , Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006b969605c5094a05" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 12:16:25 -0000 --0000000000006b969605c5094a05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Carsten, On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 6:58 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > On 2021-06-18, at 13:54, Spencer Dawkins at IETF < > spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I don't seem to have the character strings "ascii" or "coding:" in my > local repository directory, including "not in my markdown". > > Actually, it says: > > coding: us-ascii > > (line 13). Commenting out that line make it work for me. > Thank you for the eye test, and I'll refrain from sending email before 7 am local time in the future, because that's clearly not helpful! (I just checked again, and windows explorer search STILL doesn't find those character strings) The markdown is also working for me now. Thank you for that. > Clearly, it doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to have an option the main semanti= cs of > which now is to break the build. > > May I ask: Where did you get that =E2=80=9Ccoding: us-ascii=E2=80=9D line= from? > I'd hate to think how many generations of that markdown file might have been represented in setting up my current repository, but I know it's not an intentional insertion on my part. I've already removed it from another of my draft repos, so thank you for that one, too! Best, Spencer > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > --0000000000006b969605c5094a05 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Carsten,

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 6:58 = AM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>= wrote:


> On 2021-06-18, at 13:54, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail= .com> wrote:
>
> I don't seem to have the character strings "ascii" or &q= uot;coding:" in my local repository directory, including "not in = my markdown".

Actually, it says:

coding: us-ascii

(line 13).=C2=A0 Commenting out that line make it work for me.

Thank you for the eye test, and I'll refrain fr= om sending email before 7 am local time=C2=A0 in the future, because=C2=A0t= hat's clearly not helpful!

(I just checked aga= in, and windows=C2=A0explorer search STILL doesn't find those character= strings)

The=C2=A0markdown is also working for me= now.=C2=A0

Thank you for that.=C2=A0
= =C2=A0
Clearly, it d= oesn=E2=80=99t make sense to have an option the main semantics of which now= is to break the build.

May I ask: Where did you get that =E2=80=9Ccoding: us-ascii=E2=80=9D line f= rom?

I'd hate to think how many gen= erations of that markdown=C2=A0file might have been represented in setting = up my current=C2=A0repository, but I know it's not an intentional inser= tion on my part.=C2=A0

I've already removed it= from another of my draft repos, so thank you for that one, too!
=
Best,

Spencer
=C2=A0
Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten=

--0000000000006b969605c5094a05-- From nobody Fri Jun 18 05:29:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8C93A13DF for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:29:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bqCgTNsh9cTn for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B71D93A13DD for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 05:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G5ysg2ynqz2xHt; Fri, 18 Jun 2021 14:29:27 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 14:29:27 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , Tools Team Discussion X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645712166.94695-3f4d1a5ee162927ccd48420157d3b759 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <98B35541-688D-4B73-B75B-1E5FB85E1DBC@tzi.org> References: <20210616141843.GZ12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5b5ce7ea-8af2-9f86-9125-5a82a3fea02d@gmx.de> <12aa641c-0fe1-911c-25d5-97214755ebb0@gmx.de> <158A3987-6A1C-4F1B-BDCE-EAE2C880B70D@tzi.org> <4D33F1C3-0BBC-4145-ABC2-66670069D1A7@tzi.org> <7B0FA048-523F-4E11-A966-39E418C60FE4@tzi.org> <13f04661-586a-9642-1d07-607a8765ef58@gmx.de> To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Where are the IETF draft XML ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 12:29:35 -0000 On 2021-06-18, at 14:15, Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >=20 > I've already removed it from another of my draft repos, so thank you = for that one, too! Yes, that is the recommended way forward. I put in a fix into 1.4.17 that still allows the use of `coding: = (us-)ascii` in case people really still need this with their dusty = decks, but that feature from around 2012-01-14 clearly is =E2=80=9CNOT = RECOMMENDED=E2=80=9D now. Thanks for the alert! Now for reverting the datatracker-generated bibxml=E2=80=A6 $ curl = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-rtpfolks-quic-rtp-over-quic= /xml [=E2=80=A6] Technische Universitaet Muenchen [=E2=80=A6] (Of course, the current state gets doubly funny with the transliterated = =E2=80=9CUniversitaet Muenchen=E2=80=9D in there=E2=80=A6) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Jun 19 08:32:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3DA3A147E for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:32:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_HDRS_LCASE=1.997, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bVHE20IFcta3 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com (mail-wr1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B4EE3A147D for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id j2so3722082wrs.12 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:32:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id:thread-topic :mime-version; bh=k/86wAGPolXBbhtTBTJSzfcIMJFdfbyhuCzm0uDCnLw=; b=HmoAs++8TUlW8htt6ULKpdEBLF8Gx1m1nyfBJUhsIp/WV1SVFR2OzcPsydFdklHfG8 qUHvOxbgFSA+Fu8w25yBaqITeEK0PGbHrU/+lw1SDvrSJTsHzrBptYSyJFl0vPw0KBi5 e+ZMfLo4nsWhmY1kIMMExO3FyPoh68yhV3XbYeT2yrQmsxEo43iXlj0e+WJ2jO1IAm6p pl3F1anjzYTB2tDvHAnLMgQpNSFMyQTXvxrwOX96b2hbK4G+yL99vAx0p/S9PEWx3A+Q xMIC6XZcSdZ/wC/3e/9vMP/BikWtg//f4KgcnpE95n3Q+C6lrPZ2UW6p3od6XkdkqkZf EFjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id :thread-topic:mime-version; bh=k/86wAGPolXBbhtTBTJSzfcIMJFdfbyhuCzm0uDCnLw=; b=kBJ6N9PTKy9/vM866OjPG6nNadT7jWUmAGbzsFapSPu30gFooI85aA1K4p5JgoijEj kC3Wnj+oF3u9b0+pJ85lSIT11JgO/04iqgAXooD8rzVsjIatuhM47MlRgNBrqp6cg3D0 x31f16YYP2VFaK2ERlU2IJb3ABcEjG/reOPmZuhm+zceEG9nceVz7OoVzTwGHx2tJ/be VGSlFSo/C1sXLKwn3w0lc95pD+FHMaLFbZMIeUhliQFd20Df2RIZ2k9ychWC3uf6e5xq ssa2MWdPAYS99yXJ6/9ptYqoUWjp1jvoJZ5Xga8dJZKrEP+GYTsVaHWccw6xfzhfw67D Mhcw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532OzEub25AUSv8xca7BNDUhAGU/LO5M30VocDlqIOysCCDdX3E1 67topgSieadC2F+TpyVQSnwerbGieU0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxeQoIq68uTwf2MqRnWauIdhW388rVYV0TnY7RU+WZhHzkwKHEK4wsJutA6P+1g+HElvciyCw== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4a01:: with SMTP id m1mr5528958wrq.51.1624116754278; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.68.107] (bzq-79-182-62-6.red.bezeqint.net. [79.182.62.6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u18sm10484309wmj.15.2021.06.19.08.32.33 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:32:33 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.50.21061301 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:32:32 +0300 From: Yaron Sheffer To: tools-discuss Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Reference to NIST document Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3706972353_1061220033" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:32:46 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3706972353_1061220033 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 We have a reference to a NIST SP (special publication) in a draft, and xml2= rfc complains that we=E2=80=99re not using the canned reference. =20 But in trying to locate the appropriate reference, I=E2=80=99m getting more and m= ore confused. =20 When I look up the list of bibxml databases in https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.o= rg/, there=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9CMiscellaneous=E2=80=9D section with two links. One is broken, = and one (bibxml2) seems to be outdated. In any case it barely contains any N= IST documents. =20 There=E2=80=99s also a wonderful extensive list here [1] but all the XML links ar= e broken =E2=98=B9 =20 Specifically, I=E2=80=99m fighting with NIST SP 800-56a (either in general, or re= vision 3 of the standard). =20 Oh, there is a =E2=80=9Cworking=E2=80=9D list [2], but when I try using =E2=80=9CNIST.SP.800-= 56Ar2=E2=80=9D, I get a broken reference (this one appears to be a kramdown bug, t= rying to fetch from bibxml2 instead of bibxml-nist, so it=E2=80=99s not just me ge= tting confused=E2=80=A6). =20 Thanks, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Yaron =20 [1] https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-nist-new/ [2] https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-nist/ =20 --B_3706972353_1061220033 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

We have a re= ference to a NIST SP (special publication) in a draft, and xml2rfc complains= that we=E2=80=99re not using the canned reference.

 

But in trying to locate the appro= priate reference, I=E2=80=99m getting more and more confused.

 

When I look up the list= of bibxml databases in https://xm= l2rfc.tools.ietf.org/, there=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9CMiscellaneous=E2=80=9D section with two = links. One is broken, and one (bibxml2) seems to be outdated. In any case it= barely contains any NIST documents.

&= nbsp;

There=E2=80=99s also a wonderful extensive list = here [1] but all the XML links are broken =E2=98=B9

 

Specifically, I=E2=80=99m fighting with NIST SP 800-56a (eithe= r in general, or revision 3 of the standard).

 

Oh, there is a =E2=80=9Cworking=E2=80=9D list= [2], but when I try using =E2=80=9CNIST.SP.800-56Ar2=E2=80=9D, I get a broken reference= (this one appears to be a kramdown bug, trying to fetch from bibxml2 instea= d of bibxml-nist, so it=E2=80=99s not just me getting confused=E2=80=A6).

=

 

Thanks,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Yaron

 

[1] https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.or= g/public/rfc/bibxml-nist-new/

[2] https://xml2rfc.= tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-nist/

=  

--B_3706972353_1061220033-- From nobody Sat Jun 19 08:59:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0935A3A1571 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:59:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nrhHik_bYjqz for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 103F53A1572 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 08:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G6gTF2mxzz2xHV; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:59:13 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:59:13 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645811153.024546-404ae66f621ec4c300b2553aaaa52919 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <16D370CB-6A8A-4659-AC06-80BB641F3D1C@tzi.org> References: To: Yaron Sheffer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:59:21 -0000 Hi Yaron, Please see [1] for context. The NIST reference collections are really dusty at this point. Kramdown-rfc does not do shopping around, so a NIST.* reference triggers = lookup in bibxml2. I=E2=80=99m lazy and usually use DOIs for NIST references. Putting... informative: NIST.SP.800-56a: DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56a ...in the YAML header gives me: [NIST.SP.800-56a] "Recommendation for pair-wise key establishment schemes using discrete logarithm cryptography", National Institute of Standards and Technology report, DOI 10.6028/nist.sp.800-56a, 2006, . Good enough? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: = https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/wiki/Pitfalls#reference-anchors > On 2021-06-19, at 17:32, Yaron Sheffer wrote: >=20 > Hi, > =20 > We have a reference to a NIST SP (special publication) in a draft, and = xml2rfc complains that we=E2=80=99re not using the canned reference. > =20 > But in trying to locate the appropriate reference, I=E2=80=99m getting = more and more confused. > =20 > When I look up the list of bibxml databases in = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/, there=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9CMiscellaneous=E2= =80=9D section with two links. One is broken, and one (bibxml2) seems to = be outdated. In any case it barely contains any NIST documents. > =20 > There=E2=80=99s also a wonderful extensive list here [1] but all the = XML links are broken =E2=98=B9 > =20 > Specifically, I=E2=80=99m fighting with NIST SP 800-56a (either in = general, or revision 3 of the standard). > =20 > Oh, there is a =E2=80=9Cworking=E2=80=9D list [2], but when I try = using =E2=80=9CNIST.SP.800-56Ar2=E2=80=9D, I get a broken reference = (this one appears to be a kramdown bug, trying to fetch from bibxml2 = instead of bibxml-nist, so it=E2=80=99s not just me getting = confused=E2=80=A6). > =20 > Thanks, > Yaron > =20 > [1] https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-nist-new/ > [2] https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-nist/ > =20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Sat Jun 19 09:09:56 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410433A15CB for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:09:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bIWovdf9P_x9 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E2A23A15C8 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G6gjQ6wkpz2xGs; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:09:46 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <16D370CB-6A8A-4659-AC06-80BB641F3D1C@tzi.org> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:09:46 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645811786.560371-64d40bf4369a1156412aa3f08f1115c5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <30D1B4D8-6DAA-4A1A-92FF-1920F67E8EB8@tzi.org> References: <16D370CB-6A8A-4659-AC06-80BB641F3D1C@tzi.org> To: Yaron Sheffer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 16:09:54 -0000 > On 2021-06-19, at 17:59, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > NIST.SP.800-56a: DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56a =E2=80=A6 or, since you asked about 10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56Ar2 =E2=80=A6 informative: NIST.SP.800-56Ar2: DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56Ar2 =E2=9E=94 [NIST.SP.800-56Ar2] Barker, E., Chen, L., Roginsky, A., and M. Smid, "Recommendation for Pair-Wise Key Establishment Schemes Using Discrete Logarithm Cryptography", National Institute of Standards and Technology report, DOI 10.6028/nist.sp.800-56ar2, May 2013, . Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Jun 19 09:40:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26A93A16EA; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:40:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lTbblpFrVQye; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B4F83A16E7; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G6hNP2Rz0z2xGs; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:40:05 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <30D1B4D8-6DAA-4A1A-92FF-1920F67E8EB8@tzi.org> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:40:05 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss , rfc-markdown@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645813604.944698-cc4f12ec5ad421280050918605ae50a6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <408F2CE6-2ADB-41A8-B239-024321F5FF33@tzi.org> References: <16D370CB-6A8A-4659-AC06-80BB641F3D1C@tzi.org> <30D1B4D8-6DAA-4A1A-92FF-1920F67E8EB8@tzi.org> To: Yaron Sheffer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 16:40:14 -0000 =E2=80=A6 and if you really want to use the undocumented and slightly = broken bibxml-nist-new, for now please run these two commands once (in = your draft directory): wget = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-nist-new/reference.NIST.S= P.800-56Ar3.xml sed -i.bak 1d reference.NIST.SP.800-56Ar3.xml (get a local copy of the .xml and remove the xml declaration), and = add... --- informative {::include reference.NIST.SP.800-56Ar3.xml} ... before your --- back I don=E2=80=99t want to automate anything like this until, later this = year, the bibxml services have been renovated. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On 2021-06-19, at 18:09, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 >> On 2021-06-19, at 17:59, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>=20 >> NIST.SP.800-56a: DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56a >=20 > =E2=80=A6 or, since you asked about 10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56Ar2 =E2=80=A6 >=20 > informative: > NIST.SP.800-56Ar2: DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56Ar2 >=20 > =E2=9E=94 > [NIST.SP.800-56Ar2] > Barker, E., Chen, L., Roginsky, A., and M. Smid, > "Recommendation for Pair-Wise Key Establishment Schemes > Using Discrete Logarithm Cryptography", National = Institute > of Standards and Technology report, > DOI 10.6028/nist.sp.800-56ar2, May 2013, > . >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From nobody Sat Jun 19 11:48:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2C33A1C63 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 11:48:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CxVC1oupY7_G for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32AE83A1C62 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id d16so15153192lfn.3 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=88q7scYjaVsdTcbye1m3fGmlQrm7ktA//pg5vTXZ+qk=; b=cmj/vYwxK7KZVg3+mN7FvhkfBr0/XLjskrAg9xEhlt9iyyPIV+I931QO6SE+DJ4EpW EBAF7JhBsnNxRDTFR+9xd+PtGD32o/EBx/Y5N3FVHwJCSWgETcAClUMLQlJjVvuBLJ0F jtHBtyIZeedUJJbhzkPuonB9GwnzS9AwzCzGFHMMUscEWJ0NnbgV/GwTntQBK1P5MzGO JvQQPGhxlIox5bxYnBC9JgKpwwP8fE1Q5TshxjtwznLPNOqUeeDrGo3DxnmQcY1LbXPI /eBTNdzfbLtsUcvnKj6OYAix/HG0iOq2XlXpadwcCEnrRbdtWdZQOTozY82XLKw873El t9RQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=88q7scYjaVsdTcbye1m3fGmlQrm7ktA//pg5vTXZ+qk=; b=bilFlmJ/yHnjUvI8zt2wLhSBverAKtutsBBYy92oYgw1eXxE4gt10svhMe9fvGJsLg zU4K+RS3R16RWKDxSTMLKUkwT2vl6A6uwxo3QjKi4219fjp1LxGJ77MEeQZF4aREtVio wytFgQgVhqj8+VwQN38hydC+3/QyQnsmamNVAzt4HrcEzAXkggKJYYN8zhLsjwPqPFtW VQR85cMrhnCiAO1eO/Rfs3B75UEik/VZNFLLkTNZ2n5YG2PLKWBdOtzHrUDKm7bzm1Th Gn1eByf+wvFSsA22XTeTH5z6Dbsv8XqMPdA+/uKhCuzZTA24vdx/vnOdF02NIT3WAZWf XBsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ctmhaw2xxpoDVIPf6e8EppXoV4q1DOUGvhdAG6d06lJm3jzUh ZzeGbUCM47maHD7qf3GeGidji4PuxTv/m0F7j8YGDhCdhBg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzJTshCtTufe8ovFhapk1Xdzu7ntqIpUWQ12/k8bRQ9A3loQLqfoa+1UCIHxwvgbLHjVDeYe25VwYh1fOIp1A4= X-Received: by 2002:a19:ccc:: with SMTP id 195mr1048681lfm.439.1624128478278; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 11:47:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162412791356.30471.9582416370793515264@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <162412791356.30471.9582416370793515264@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tim Wicinski Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:47:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000004799f05c522e15b" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: Datatracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:48:10 -0000 --00000000000004799f05c522e15b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I have a silly question. In these emails, the state change is State changed to None from WG Document Which feels very counter intuitive, and always causes a double take. Why does it not read State changed from WG Document to None Also, quotes around the state names make things more obvious. Will gladly file said bug, though it is a nit. tim ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: IETF Secretariat Date: Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 2:38 PM Subject: Datatracker State Update Notice: To: , , State changed to None from WG Document Datatracker URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server/ --00000000000004799f05c522e15b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I= have a silly question.=C2=A0 =C2=A0In these emails, the state change is=C2= =A0
State changed to None f= rom WG Document

Which feels very= counter intuitive, and always causes a double take.=C2=A0
Why does it no= t read

State changed from WG Document to None
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">
Also, quotes around= the state names make things more obvious.

Will gladly file said bug, though it is a nit= .

tim
=C2=A0

=
----------= Forwarded message ---------
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>=
Date: Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 2:38 PM
Subject: Datatracker State= Update Notice: <draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server-01.txt>
To: = <dnsop-chairs@ietf.org>,= <draft= -ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server@ietf.org>, <warren@kumari.net>


State changed to None from WG Document
Datatracker URL: https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server/


--00000000000004799f05c522e15b-- From nobody Sat Jun 19 12:44:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8743A1E0B for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:44:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r2zEku7yx02X for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE4BC3A1E08 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF6438BE9; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id m2OtaI98Aqch; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B442538BE7; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE78B75; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:44:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann , Yaron Sheffer , tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <16D370CB-6A8A-4659-AC06-80BB641F3D1C@tzi.org> References: <16D370CB-6A8A-4659-AC06-80BB641F3D1C@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 19:44:35 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: > The NIST reference collections are really dusty at this point. > Kramdown-rfc does not do shopping around, so a NIST.* reference trigg= ers lookup in bibxml2. > I=E2=80=99m lazy and usually use DOIs for NIST references. > Putting... > informative: > NIST.SP.800-56a: DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56a Is "NIST." an kramdown thing? I recognize the DOI as being an alias, but I didn't know I could put a / in= there. Is anything special done with a DOI? =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDOSRgACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWRVwf/UaDjLILl20rqhHB8DXzQDeQE0nwssM1HCtHKtn7kBJ2gRCHRYQHWMzlF bx6BJcsxzAUpj8VN/Ug3DGN1qB8mfqGgyyjW9DT4hArtzkKxMoyDfM7pFBI8SyYB fsJnUKcwhthtKfvdIsW7T3JKkC4Z5VPzLXueE/DL9bhayURX3MUzRFs9O60bw74k Q551Vl4xKzlyolE2v2e8neZ0inWaZAgsVnVWQvJub68SNzCB5S3/bWeI11xdrjnZ lGiYLUoVDRg2fWPTeRQD+e+1ZkYnl44dvyH0UbnQu3NLA2qTbvHmXkAGdHzIrd29 Aq2fkL3WY2USf9AU+aXU5+jW5zyZUg== =wEyg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Jun 19 12:47:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620A63A1E18 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:47:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 39-PhSb7lKod for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A697B3A1E14 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0583E38BFD; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id nhIdIQ5KmptG; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E778C38BFB; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9FAB75; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:47:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Yaron Sheffer , tools-discuss In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 19:47:30 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yaron Sheffer wrote: > When I look up the list of bibxml databases in > https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/, there=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9CMiscellan= eous=E2=80=9D section with > two links. One is broken, and one (bibxml2) seems to be outdated. In > any case it barely contains any NIST documents. My understanding is that everything there is dusty, and will get renovated. Since we mostly just *add* to these things, with rare updates/fixes, I wond= er if this isn't something that git{hub} wouldn't be good at? I.e. if you find yourself needing something else, you should add it to a copy you keep locally, and send a pull request. This solves much of the stability and airplane problem if one has it locall= y. (I've often rsync'ed it) =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDOSckACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUIXwgAj3DqYRjeUhKtCVV+OsmU89loIEfx3hkEtcu+0nI8nHyXx04PO/dLNmts TO4TqukNu7RsXjZpQdWWUaIeeyTH4M3xz6uP6Wci6uqVmNwlBuEPhIqq99jKBIbK Q3mrxAddWYh9CGD0bBLG77yoFo6HmCxQshKLtcxRbnnQcO15SeqEKgoWcH5XC3QK mNaqekVlVehZxGcN0gfwSbuUcJ+4VOhk1InkxSkEOmWirI9AYtgh0oVLrVjqMDMv PfBYxr2aZXX75vnIbQsiPLHxDsoDc+yPaTeZSItB1z1k7QwI47AuoFEvcC/V/vru qUAo51bfJzJksPd5CBO2lSd4TymV7g== =Q0I3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Jun 19 12:49:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB79B3A1E17; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:49:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 35Vs1bFu7QEy; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFAE63A1E14; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G6mZh6Vvvz2xHd; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 21:49:16 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <11206.1624131864@localhost> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 21:49:16 +0200 Cc: Yaron Sheffer , tools-discuss , rfc-markdown@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645824956.404808-9ffe846ba7b3b8455608d9b91bb701e2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4DDD2670-E934-43E3-8F8D-E51B53156180@tzi.org> References: <16D370CB-6A8A-4659-AC06-80BB641F3D1C@tzi.org> <11206.1624131864@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 19:49:25 -0000 > On 2021-06-19, at 21:44, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Carsten Bormann wrote: >> The NIST reference collections are really dusty at this point. >> Kramdown-rfc does not do shopping around, so a NIST.* reference = triggers lookup in bibxml2. >=20 >> I=E2=80=99m lazy and usually use DOIs for NIST references. >=20 >> Putting... >=20 >> informative: >> NIST.SP.800-56a: DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56a >=20 > Is "NIST." an kramdown thing? Kramdown-rfc recognizes NIST.* labels and tries to look them up in = bibxml2. However, the syntax above uses a DOI reference and then renames that, so = the above magic is not applied. > I recognize the DOI as being an alias, but I didn't know I could put a = / in there. Both / and _ should work; since the point of the rename is to get to = choose an anchor of one=E2=80=99s liking (and so it doesn=E2=80=99t = matter that =E2=80=9C/=E2=80=9C cannot be in an anchor), I just copied = the / from the original DOI. > Is anything special done with a DOI? If it looks like DOI.*, it will be looked up for you from doi.org, so = you don=E2=80=99t need to supply your own reference. doi.org info can = be a bit sketchy, though, so better check, and use kramdown-rfc=E2=80=99s = doilit tool plus some hand editing if you don=E2=80=99t like the result. https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/wiki/Pitfalls#reference-anchors Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Jun 19 12:54:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3963A1E19 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:54:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jvzXCD1EoWwG for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 530613A1E17 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G6mhz2yjcz2xHd; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 21:54:43 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <11896.1624132041@localhost> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 21:54:43 +0200 Cc: Yaron Sheffer , tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 645825283.061384-32202b849ae162f573f7bf6a329314c6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <91F6FBC0-A2CC-4C30-983C-06C7C415D574@tzi.org> References: <11896.1624132041@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 19:54:50 -0000 On 2021-06-19, at 21:47, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > Yaron Sheffer wrote: >> When I look up the list of bibxml databases in >> https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/, there=E2=80=99s a = =E2=80=9CMiscellaneous=E2=80=9D section with >> two links. One is broken, and one (bibxml2) seems to be outdated. In >> any case it barely contains any NIST documents. >=20 > My understanding is that everything there is dusty, and will get = renovated. This year, we all hope=E2=80=A6 > Since we mostly just *add* to these things, with rare updates/fixes, I = wonder > if this isn't something that git{hub} wouldn't be good at? =20 It turns out that git is actually good at updates/fixes, too :-) > I.e. if you find > yourself needing something else, you should add it to a copy you keep > locally, and send a pull request. Exactly. The idea is so great Mark Nottingham has started something=E2=80=A6 https://www.specref.org > This solves much of the stability and airplane problem if one has it = locally. > (I've often rsync'ed it) A git pull is so much easier than getting an rsync right! (And git also doesn=E2=80=99t resend data that hasn=E2=80=99t changed = =E2=80=94 some rfc editor info gets new file dates for each RFC every = day even without content changes, which can be very time consuming even = with rsync.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Jun 19 14:36:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2E93A20F1; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:36:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_PDS_SHORTFWD_URISHRT_QP=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c4chZuvjrnTG; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44EF23A20EF; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBBC38C29; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 8PouS1EDY8Xl; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DF838B7A; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980B659; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:36:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss , rfc-markdown@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4DDD2670-E934-43E3-8F8D-E51B53156180@tzi.org> References: <16D370CB-6A8A-4659-AC06-80BB641F3D1C@tzi.org> <11206.1624131864@localhost> <4DDD2670-E934-43E3-8F8D-E51B53156180@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 21:36:32 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: >> Is anything special done with a DOI? > If it looks like DOI.*, it will be looked up for you from doi.org, so > you don=E2=80=99t need to supply your own reference. doi.org info ca= n be a bit > sketchy, though, so better check, and use kramdown-rfc=E2=80=99s doil= it tool > plus some hand editing if you don=E2=80=99t like the result. > https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/wiki/Pitfalls#reference-anch= ors Given that DOIs seem to be on the rise, this is a really useful thing, and I think it deserves some more awareness :-) =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDOY1cACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWn/gf+JSp2aujNhVHV+XPlVc4DnOTfMjjCV8Lmvs5Q/kMR78qegKAFW3eVBWSh lBw4BbFfzq3iLKD0QPRQSq2ts1cIocI0MW3ReBJWwm793rdTXUe7HRRwroJHg7zq XOVWG/iTqAbF1Vl6PkjXtZij+X/bRQhA7h93DWRrfW2sVM0ZXOy8y1sc12z28pwO +eR7y0E3imnDrWg94K9xeuhC5uzO1bwDZHir1sKjrnK+F0tFxkt4BDCJF6OSHGkm 1fDJ1CKAZQ67q1I+1JWWzVmSoqqmaFSwgSZsHSg9qe2gFXac6RS3z9g87sS9RSNo oGxVa9bSxFgtXoyXXP37H+edvS6zsg== =Imbm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Jun 19 14:38:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E4B3A20FC for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:37:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O0yekiYdN99W for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com (mail-wr1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84BE93A20FB for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id o3so14941997wri.8 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:37:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fwptH9V6yU2bIkLq63fa56hMHjT1e4azkyuHJMku7eU=; b=VrB6IykhhotnHeKJTm3RfuOqSrm7WeCjErD8BommeSlTGBi2MDGtt4I0PRDm8KVbAR 2R33UlqT1cYPpnkaTmBUco1VIzzr5B98W1mKcEX7DIJ3rRoLk55cpqt2OTZhW/M9LkxN tJ+JZYAHCAuPyq0qlTWLUK3ZY7tD+hiiEfftjxgON/pOWl56yz6xYb/qZz/x7tQ47//l zfjREi/Ua7QAFGFrqKWWVIaCgtkbQou/34wjAOp3oHXA0KrPP8kjcdNLoZA0FNPLwVv4 bi3nRfP8jjlvm8DD+W2WdqcFYZ2SBaz413vzSYDYdaev/eyqVy5I3VDBJyAxio0HoaIE jS7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fwptH9V6yU2bIkLq63fa56hMHjT1e4azkyuHJMku7eU=; b=rh6hq8s1heL1/V9LmXxbnZWNKylSLGI+rb2diweJK/XEqydMSKN6SenSpepwZU/gwq QMmKrJX1iFX+zZMxvUmq1UvTnvwcoBvLmYLMSREqhyBFLOKUp3RSESGjZsGmn6UH1zsg 76dUcngvgksTphiCL3IkH79j08SaWSAjUO4/SZB0DoaSd/4BxdP0sVIaQc24Kz9D/Yxo nar/cWdt2ps9DhBc4OibaK2o49NletVjLbuDYKangVeKkGFW7FVDfcJVdyO2jPaQtMN6 UvrMcoAj0vL/ZneAaNYMx4xN7QJxXbSjI95tVpp1HdCBFmLMJqQpaQ/bDLoiUOugtQYR NX5g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530i7fdrbqqfemb+7ycjNiT9PJUqRUf+X6QMdgSy2vFfeIqwZsVc ccAMRS5NcG3C4aHzHiga/OE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmOUStzHTdxcSjY6kSM/JdFirsg74zYBqsiH1ouaRJmf8A3saMASNrGQDWTSSmzog4d4QtdQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5752:: with SMTP id q18mr19480345wrw.419.1624138671484; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.68.107] (bzq-79-182-62-6.red.bezeqint.net. [79.182.62.6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t1sm12554136wrx.28.2021.06.19.14.37.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.50.21061301 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2021 00:37:49 +0300 From: Yaron Sheffer To: Carsten Bormann , Michael Richardson CC: tools-discuss Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document References: <11896.1624132041@localhost> <91F6FBC0-A2CC-4C30-983C-06C7C415D574@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <91F6FBC0-A2CC-4C30-983C-06C7C415D574@tzi.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 21:38:00 -0000 I'm glad to hear life will be better later in 2021. In the meantime, DOI FT= W! Yaron =EF=BB=BFOn 6/19/21, 22:54, "Carsten Bormann" wrote: On 2021-06-19, at 21:47, Michael Richardson wro= te: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > Yaron Sheffer wrote: >> When I look up the list of bibxml databases in >> https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/, there=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9CMiscellaneous=E2=80=9D sec= tion with >> two links. One is broken, and one (bibxml2) seems to be outdated. In >> any case it barely contains any NIST documents. >=20 > My understanding is that everything there is dusty, and will get reno= vated. This year, we all hope=E2=80=A6 > Since we mostly just *add* to these things, with rare updates/fixes, = I wonder > if this isn't something that git{hub} wouldn't be good at? =20 It turns out that git is actually good at updates/fixes, too :-) > I.e. if you find > yourself needing something else, you should add it to a copy you keep > locally, and send a pull request. Exactly. The idea is so great Mark Nottingham has started something=E2=80=A6 https://www.specref.org > This solves much of the stability and airplane problem if one has it = locally. > (I've often rsync'ed it) A git pull is so much easier than getting an rsync right! (And git also doesn=E2=80=99t resend data that hasn=E2=80=99t changed =E2=80=94 some rfc = editor info gets new file dates for each RFC every day even without content = changes, which can be very time consuming even with rsync.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Jun 19 14:41:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C08E3A0060 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:41:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wfoBfYXKdE0i for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 896E73A005D for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 14:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1AB138C29; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id bMCaWveql0qF; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1B138BAB; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE4859; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:41:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <91F6FBC0-A2CC-4C30-983C-06C7C415D574@tzi.org> References: <11896.1624132041@localhost> <91F6FBC0-A2CC-4C30-983C-06C7C415D574@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 21:41:39 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: > The idea is so great Mark Nottingham has started something=E2=80=A6 > https://www.specref.org oh, that's very nice. It seems like the IETF should renovate to use that tool. Still needs IEEE, ITU, ANSI, content, but that might not be hard to fix. mcr> This solves much of the stability and airplane problem if one has = it locally. mcr> (I've often rsync'ed it) > A git pull is so much easier than getting an rsync right! > (And git also doesn=E2=80=99t resend data that hasn=E2=80=99t changed= =E2=80=94 some rfc editor > info gets new file dates for each RFC every day even without content > changes, which can be very time consuming even with rsync.) Also, I can maintain a local patch on something that I find is wrong, and then keep rebasing until it gets accepted. (or I give up) =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDOZIoACgkQgItw+93Q 3WX4dwf6A0iIF2gW3h3IdQ3LghDqdpCgjyblWzrq52VDtMADP57gDX0Edge083NF 2c4vp8K3tEjq4iz/A9gVL0mmFv7WU+CEkMaDk8h8fXmeI7Q1aY9SMDo1Q2Yomjkr 782oHNTEdOu+VO1a0iBdlj52I7vEzVpTuSlMBscXseATUAmBQ2sQsNVe5ekoIsRn KlvcJrARDT7DeIJaqXJTB6QCYtI5DXev9XHp6vfdw2sXWZ73QD84asfKibxmGdlc Y7+yIZ+afsao9xn0qTYRUc8++Dc3sbn9bFau2G2l+bmBghp/JzkbnFv59AqCqaCg tQ68VbvvWUJFlrbZndNdWJwNNQCrdA== =QHzc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Jun 19 15:17:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438603A0853 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:17:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=R/qGFkw4; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=Agxlsdvk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ullpr0D28KSv for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDDF63A08CE for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 95090 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2021 22:17:23 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=1736f.60ce6cf3.k2106; bh=0YSOUgjMhx915NoTWtUFcQ3Nad/FTMgs29D0kev9dsk=; b=R/qGFkw4+tZy7WUgFtVBwIwuCJlspC+t0NNwKVLb+NGegCovTRni3/1kNxYQHBO2qEuNUcNqvnLe8ZEJw5MpDdqpClVl28xPel2iQdYwJwgbQFXnlnPzhMduSt+PURgp0ff7PRGP3q1ggekBGGcEejmix55piwqHvSHxv5WNAzyCa4ccsNlIu/dlAd+oGV13Tsz4bffZWVw6Es6t0ovLzpEPktuzP78k3YZReCdChMFBPw4wpFO4wp7zAP0yo+6vDaha8dyn9clSTIQbX7nY+CDo5tCyJLuTYaM3gDNZOA4O9FmvbgUHY1YQPsCtggJRk8U6zxH9ELYrSXINJgN9/g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=1736f.60ce6cf3.k2106; bh=0YSOUgjMhx915NoTWtUFcQ3Nad/FTMgs29D0kev9dsk=; b=AgxlsdvkAWIEv4hH2gAPKC7YbMJMxJOlXgn5PL+k6eGKksyHicau3xeV9p1ergeSioEke4usLUo0G23XHLYiPJ8ksqWhLcOcBILD6CNhNSirigNAYAsZZkcMaG6PPOMAUB/ux2+7sbcfdqI5/VlzUrhqoqsKuCvGFtBMuQwUqYGmcLyi84hy1yW3CT0AHoPpHittCLFvGxpL1cG60jJx5o2g5RcSw5pwzTxp7gHG+Y2AEyUbAIBDyjaeuR/Sexdf2lKmPaEAip0p2XJsrGrpKVaYFkTwALoY02uV1fwczAGayH/qRVdkwj7p3jSpC4Fxen+RnbUCi0kyRD0nPqjBIw== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 19 Jun 2021 22:17:23 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 969211422198; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: 19 Jun 2021 18:17:22 -0400 Message-Id: <20210619221722.969211422198@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Cc: mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca In-Reply-To: <11896.1624132041@localhost> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Cleverness: minimal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 22:17:31 -0000 It appears that Michael Richardson said: >-=-=-=-=-=- > > >Yaron Sheffer wrote: > > When I look up the list of bibxml databases in > > https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/, there’s a “Miscellaneous” section with > > two links. One is broken, and one (bibxml2) seems to be outdated. In > > any case it barely contains any NIST documents. > >My understanding is that everything there is dusty, and will get renovated. Here is the RFP: https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/BibXML_Service_RFP.pdf Looks like they should be selecting the contractor shortly. R's, John From nobody Mon Jun 21 03:04:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9053A2AF3 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 03:04:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NMYI9KXruOKl; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 03:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC5FF3A2AF2; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 03:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B5A8DC24-E8EC-4F90-90A8-22940885C8FD Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jay Daley Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 22:04:48 +1200 Message-Id: <5FE46BE5-8D72-4A1B-B69D-D2C3DA174885@ietf.org> References: <20210619221722.969211422198@ary.qy> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20210619221722.969211422198@ary.qy> To: John Levine , mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18F72) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Reference to NIST document X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 10:04:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail-B5A8DC24-E8EC-4F90-90A8-22940885C8FD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Double reply below.=20 > On 20/06/2021, at 10:17 AM, John Levine wrote: >=20 > Here is the RFP: >=20 > https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/BibXML_Service_RFP.pdf >=20 > Looks like they should be selecting the contractor shortly. >=20 Yes we are on track for announcing a contractor soon.=20 > On 20/06/2021, at 9:41 AM, Michael Richardson wrot= e: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Carsten Bormann wrote: >> The idea is so great Mark Nottingham has started something=E2=80=A6 >> https://www.specref.org >=20 > oh, that's very nice. > It seems like the IETF should renovate to use that tool. We have to do it ourselves because BibXML is =E2=80=98proprietary=E2=80=99 t= o the IETF. i.e. while we publish it as an open standard, albeit not a stand= alone one, nobody else uses it.=20 The intent of the RFP is to provide access to our references and those of se= lect other organisations in four ways (basically what we already have but re= written and modernised): - web api - interactive web form, single citation - interactive web form, full datasets for those that can be statically gener= ated - rsync, for those sets that can be statically generated=20 This makes it easy for a site such as specref.org to pull our files and repu= blish. They don=E2=80=99t need permission but we will help to make it happe= n.=20 In addition to specref.org you might also be interested in ISO 690 and relat= on.org.=20 Jay --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director= --Apple-Mail-B5A8DC24-E8EC-4F90-90A8-22940885C8FD Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Double reply below. 

On 20/06/2021, at 10:17 AM, John Levine <= johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

Here is the RFP:

= https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/BibXML_Service_RFP.pdf
=
Looks like they should be selecting the contractor shortly.=


Yes we ar= e on track for announcing a contractor soon. 

=
On 20/06/2021, at 9:41 AM, M= ichael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

<= /div>
=EF=BB=BF
Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi= .org> wrote:
The idea is so great Mark Notti= ngham has started something=E2=80=A6
https://www.specref.org

oh, that's very nice.
It s= eems like the IETF should renovate to use that tool.
<= div>
We have to do it ourselves because BibXML is =E2=80=98propriet= ary=E2=80=99 to the IETF. i.e. while we publish it as an open standard, albe= it not a standalone one, nobody else uses it. 

The i= ntent of the RFP is to provide access to our references and those of select o= ther organisations in four ways (basically what we already have but rewritte= n and modernised):
- web api
- interactive web form, sin= gle citation
- interactive web form, full datasets for those that c= an be statically generated
- rsync, for those sets that can be sta= tically generated 

This makes it easy for a si= te such as specref.org to pull our files and republish.  They don=E2=80= =99t need permission but we will help to make it happen. 
In addition to specref.org you might also be interested in ISO 6= 90 and relaton.org. 

Jay

<= div>
-- 
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
= --Apple-Mail-B5A8DC24-E8EC-4F90-90A8-22940885C8FD-- From nobody Mon Jun 21 22:03:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F703A1318 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 22:03:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.651 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id htc1iinplBtl for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 22:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F87D3A1315 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 22:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A79554802F for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 07:03:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 82DC44E7823; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 07:03:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 07:03:27 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210622050327.GS12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] interim recordings ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 05:03:37 -0000 Are there any *.ietf.org URLs on which to find recordings for interims ? I looked and could not find any. For full IETF, the recordings are accessible from the agenda URL, but there is no equivalent for interims (it seems). Finding interrim sessions by name on youtube seems convoluted, and i did not manage to find recordings when i tried. Thanks Toerless From nobody Tue Jun 22 08:07:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5143A005D for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:07:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.016 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.016 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5-5itJ_xL7d2 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0F273A0045 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.34.206]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 15MF77ic084811 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jun 2021 10:07:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1624374428; bh=5ERHwj0bMjrkt8MlbjATt0/iYw3Xpmcx1OwigLdmDyg=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=sbsvOhse71hEK2Mwk+TeKFX96LXvvkof5MDMnDto2+ThmoOSYEPd5nr+BYhWeCraQ 03h3ZjpnKYxS0SPReRG+tlzU/DcDS81zFVh0tV8zZIlxgrnUMiJyKmt1zDNucob0lL ef/3yvohaUq+ADoC5c8cLehWxP7fnfLzlxpqeBFw= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.34.206] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: Tim Wicinski , Tools Team Discussion References: <162412791356.30471.9582416370793515264@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <1a933099-6db8-96b4-6a23-b0a8703bfb56@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 10:07:01 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7102BF1C9596AD37E4FE60A6" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: Datatracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 15:07:23 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7102BF1C9596AD37E4FE60A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim - This one is frustrating - whichever way we state it (old to new, or new=20 from old), several people chime in and want it the other way. The last time we went through this, several IESG members pushed for the=20 current form since it puts the most important bit of information (the=20 state _now_) first. We even with through iterations where we split the information onto=20 multiple lines, and tried to emphasize (in plain-text) the new state,=20 but pushback landed us where we are. (Note that the new state is bolded on this history page for the document)= =2E We can add quotes, and it would be nice to get other suggestions for how = to make the message more useful - for instance, would it be helpful for=20 the email message to say _who_ changed the state? RjS On 6/19/21 1:47 PM, Tim Wicinski wrote: > > I have a silly question.=C2=A0 =C2=A0In these emails, the state change = is > > State changed to None from WG Document > > Which feels very counter intuitive, and always causes a double take. > Why does it not read > > State changed from WG Document to None > > > Also, quotes around the state names make things more obvious. > > Will gladly file said bug, though it is a nit. > > tim > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: *IETF Secretariat* > > Date: Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 2:38 PM > Subject: Datatracker State Update Notice:=20 > > To: >,=20 > >,=20 > > > > > State changed to None from WG Document > > Datatracker URL:=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server/=20 > = > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.= org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/tools-discuss --------------7102BF1C9596AD37E4FE60A6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Tim -

This one is frustrating - whichever way we state it (old to new, or new from old), several people chime in and want it the other way.

The last time we went through this, several IESG members pushed for the current form since it puts the most important bit of information (the state _now_) first.

We even with through iterations where we split the information onto multiple lines, and tried to emphasize (in plain-text) the new state, but pushback landed us where we are.

(Note that the new state is bolded on this history page for the document).

We can add quotes, and it would be nice to get other suggestions for how to make the message more useful - for instance, would it be helpful for the email message to say _who_ changed the state?

RjS


On 6/19/21 1:47 PM, Tim Wicinski wrote:

I have a silly question.   In these emails, the state change is 
State changed to None from WG Document

Which feels very counter intuitive, and always causes a double take. 
Why does it not read

State changed from WG Document to None

Also, quotes around the state names make things more obvious.

Will gladly file said bug, though it is a nit.

tim
 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
Date: Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 2:38 PM
Subject: Datatracker State Update Notice: <draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server-01.txt>
To: <dnsop-chairs@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server@ietf.org>, <warren@kumari.net>


State changed to None from WG Document
Datatracker URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server/



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--------------7102BF1C9596AD37E4FE60A6-- From nobody Tue Jun 22 10:50:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD9E3A1036 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 10:50:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 37lBaxjNzuIz for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 10:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44AEC3A1030 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 10:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57033548017; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:49:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 52F2D4E782F; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:49:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:49:59 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Robert Sparks Cc: Tim Wicinski , Tools Team Discussion Message-ID: <20210622174959.GW12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <162412791356.30471.9582416370793515264@ietfa.amsl.com> <1a933099-6db8-96b4-6a23-b0a8703bfb56@nostrum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <1a933099-6db8-96b4-6a23-b0a8703bfb56@nostrum.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: Datatracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:50:13 -0000 On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 10:07:01AM -0500, Robert Sparks wrote: > Hi Tim - > > This one is frustrating - whichever way we state it (old to new, or new from > old), several people chime in and want it the other way. > > The last time we went through this, several IESG members pushed for the > current form since it puts the most important bit of information (the state > _now_) first. *Rotfl* State changed to None from WG Document You must unlearn what you have learned Named must be your fear before banish it you can Kidding aside: I think it is appropriate to let those who have to work with Datatracker the most have the first pass at it's interface, but if there is a conflict, maybe a compromise would be to change it slightly to something that looks more like maybe router CLI instead of english yoda. State now: "None", prior: "WG Document" Cheers Toerless > We even with through iterations where we split the information onto multiple > lines, and tried to emphasize (in plain-text) the new state, but pushback > landed us where we are. > > (Note that the new state is bolded on this history page for the document). > > We can add quotes, and it would be nice to get other suggestions for how to > make the message more useful - for instance, would it be helpful for the > email message to say _who_ changed the state? > > RjS > > > On 6/19/21 1:47 PM, Tim Wicinski wrote: > > > > I have a silly question. In these emails, the state change is > > > > State changed to None from WG Document > > > > Which feels very counter intuitive, and always causes a double take. > > Why does it not read > > > > State changed from WG Document to None > > > > > > Also, quotes around the state names make things more obvious. > > > > Will gladly file said bug, though it is a nit. > > > > tim > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > From: *IETF Secretariat* > > > > Date: Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 2:38 PM > > Subject: Datatracker State Update Notice: > > > > To: >, > > > >, > > > > > > > > > State changed to None from WG Document > > > > Datatracker URL: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server/ > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Jun 22 12:00:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF4563A139B for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:00:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AO30WXn7qZy0 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D7CD3A13BE for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193C138C16 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 15:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id mnBvmgi8PrJL for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 15:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C09E38C14 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 15:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 507DFE32 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 15:00:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] what revision of markdown for IETF? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:00:58 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know that markdown has many flavours/versions. I have no idea how to name them. Comparing: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2021-cellar-06-cell= ar-01/ and: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2021-cellar-06-cellar you'll see that our nice table is not rendered as such on the DT. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDSM1MACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVI7QgAmjLySwKdWwAgkdHt2JpIXoKLe1BcoO3LqeUQq9rgDiYFdZDCNPvFDCNg OXUlmRG1mNYYh8Te25ezhMOQQEmyvb2z5pt7tGcSl6umWC+heayv3JfaOd7aMgFH fXpMI+AIEKH8aOtBZ7QXDVWFku231ki7nv62NZAxPYtZWM6S1y7FIAbzL6mrC0NE AXg8bg0vw7thwrY+a0TUzRd+tGrtL9pgsrhJVGZgrTQlUTgFb1WNeXnCRs7oRIt5 7bPs5B8xBPLdy4pTybqrw6yfjbcrCoppWgvjWhPnU07H+43d54cJy8qBPViAq8se DfG8nHgVDh5DUKrkzmolp5qRvughgw== =Y+V2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jun 22 12:15:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF1D3A13A4 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:15:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YynBVbCTmc47 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 394553A13A2 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G8bhH0m3Vz2xJ9; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 21:15:27 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <25460.1624388436@localhost> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 21:15:26 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 646082126.481926-3b9cb92e19a1ebdd293c7f8f63b695ec Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <25460.1624388436@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] what revision of markdown for IETF? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:15:37 -0000 Revision is a word that can be used to describe steps in an orderly, = linear editing process. I don=E2=80=99t know how that word got into the same mail as the word = markdown=E2=80=A6 Tables weren=E2=80=99t part of the original markdown spec. This was quickly fixed in the then dominant PHP markdown implementation = (the name of which I forget), but other tools have implemented deviant = versions of that. Most notorious is github, which requires all-pipe vertical lines for = detection (no plus signs as with everyone else). John Gruber abandoned markdown, and commonmark came a bit late. The rest is history. I don=E2=80=99t think we should try to be the guy that cleans up all the = kids=E2=80=99 rooms in the whole neighborhood. But here the problem is a different one: > On 2021-06-22, at 21:00, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > I know that markdown has many flavours/versions. I have no idea how to = name > them. >=20 > Comparing: > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2021-cellar-06-cellar-01/ >=20 > and: > = https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2021-cellar-06-cellar >=20 > you'll see that our nice table is not rendered as such on the DT. Because the thing isn=E2=80=99t rendering markdown at all! (Oh, and looking at the uploaded media type is a procedure that may seem = justifiable from the letter of the standards but given the reality of = browser implementations really is just torturing the user base. In this = century, we have file name endings (=E2=80=9Cextensions=E2=80=9D) for = that.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 22 12:19:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333D83A13D2 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6SKX6cJfR5yC for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 979773A13CF for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G8bms3H4rz2xJD; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 21:19:25 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 21:19:25 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 646082365.086311-5f6a690466012c983620e0b8ec8e3fde Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <58C5CB55-57AE-4836-98E2-5B9307AE6C1C@tzi.org> References: <25460.1624388436@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] what revision of markdown for IETF? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:19:32 -0000 > On 2021-06-22, at 21:15, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Because the thing isn=E2=80=99t rendering markdown at all! Oh, you mean = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-cellar-06/materials/agen= da-interim-2021-cellar-06-cellar-01-01.md and not the one that you linked. Unfortunately, the renderer employed there does not leave a signature, = so I don=E2=80=99t know which one was used. (I simply convert my markdown before uploading, but that is cheating.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 22 12:44:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28C33A14D6 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5VihLKoJYL3I for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C0D93A14D4 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 12:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G8cKQ0gznz2xJH; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 21:44:10 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <58C5CB55-57AE-4836-98E2-5B9307AE6C1C@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 21:44:09 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 646083849.361039-943ebb00d49b90d396bee740367bbb38 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <25460.1624388436@localhost> <58C5CB55-57AE-4836-98E2-5B9307AE6C1C@tzi.org> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] what revision of markdown for IETF? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:44:17 -0000 On 2021-06-22, at 21:19, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Unfortunately, the renderer employed there does not leave a signature, = so I don=E2=80=99t know which one was used. If it=E2=80=99s Python markdown (I have had no way to mine the ietfdb = source properly since git-svn gave its last gasp on my machine), that = considers tables to be an =E2=80=9Cextension=E2=80=9D that needs to be = switched on explicitly. The same seems to be true for Python markdown2, which the silver = searcher does find in the belly of the datatracker. https://github.com/trentm/python-markdown2/wiki/Extras =E2=80=A6 would need, say, tables fenced-code-blocks strike cuddled-lists strike because of our propensity to change agenda lists at the last = moment :-) cuddled-lists because many of us are lazy. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 22 13:25:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5143A16B2 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 13:25:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cj7_ld73j0zU for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E78D3A16AF for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id x24so201643lfr.10 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=p1zOgy77jQ+jxGlOL+O8rlZM6y+2tiUCRxkKVfOkdRw=; b=InsqDfyHRnhDxRgRRarXOQaIVQ3yzidOIgOvMMhpD+HQ4iVq0WuoDEYPAGDUZFeCVP AS8kULEk2f4CkOZsArqOuc5yB+yZA0aJ/j9u24bLLYU/Z2laocTPAYoyXIuJY1SqoZgH KFhi79GPVIa0piTK8eKHqB8VOeYyOn9zW0hY+ZcTMFcRh0KSbZYTmXSYmPio4MBEQIEH aYJHHiqJLEDHr9OS5pShdH5Q+d15uueVZ+etKiEZ05G5HMxGQHxGr032AEWqIJvn2KYC 7aV3fqf5dvA1SoEeWs8fmv+F5CH6d+7PabxzJHEBy69H0vKs1txfK1WLl1fuq7weoGq+ YFpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=p1zOgy77jQ+jxGlOL+O8rlZM6y+2tiUCRxkKVfOkdRw=; b=AScKgpPbKOG16s6WKkq5yMg9oAbJNkEhsaT04T26IpWAc5ipnzc9QmzC2uaYyisfcQ Pe+pdNppeX4mlRoL/pgXVAQS+dbkumuGcY2O3RiX2AE5P4T+WJeO9+BnLvj6pCQCGulM Ho7qR02IfLkp2VDz5RwxmmmRiPJSrDIhFRTwTkCMm7pcNeLZHiWiIjuSw9piE3LLk4dr MNIXvKQR/NDtRiHM7AdwloqTUR1k6uaRAcSLO3utNIbH0cCdvjDnK6+aMgVzWP8uwyEP FC6HD460NW+FPg9qkPJdAYWFkT+4uJW1kiYCwfXbetfLh3kb/mwu006y/VSXhYIfsXyy I4+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533MM5UBHgRJLfvswNHT/U6pNqK9IeZ/+8I7croGl8k1Zmiqu5X3 NJ4wdNuVMGR8AbR6WjhOX7dFx9CZGGos07dwwDs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxJWb4dRooBfjui/Osxprm7Cp2sO+suTOKJHxniepH/ZMR54iq3T6sj2Cvn4nQLM4a1Uyj8qy572w6CUT9+/M0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:31c2:: with SMTP id j2mr4007411lfe.69.1624393502765; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 13:25:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162412791356.30471.9582416370793515264@ietfa.amsl.com> <1a933099-6db8-96b4-6a23-b0a8703bfb56@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <1a933099-6db8-96b4-6a23-b0a8703bfb56@nostrum.com> From: Tim Wicinski Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 16:24:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: Robert Sparks Cc: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b5358405c5609539" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: Datatracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 20:25:10 -0000 --000000000000b5358405c5609539 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Robert Thanks for the explanation. I am not shocked by what you described, which means I've been involved in the IETF long enough. I'm wondering if the Subject line could contain the new state? Subject: New Datatracker state Waiting for AD Go-Ahead I went back and was looking in my email for datatracker update emails, and they are not consistent. Here are a few examples: ---- IESG state changed: New State: Waiting for AD Go-Ahead::Revised I-D Needed (The previous state was Waiting for AD Go-Ahead) ---- IANA action state changed to "In Progress" ---- The IETF WG state of draft-salgado-dnsop-rrserial has been changed to "Adopted by a WG" from "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" by Tim Wicinski: ---- The DNSOP WG has placed draft-sury-toorop-dnsop-server-cookies in state Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Tim Wicinski) ---- Robert, I will be the first to say I should be ignored because my OCD can drive myself mad, let alone anyone else. I also don't have any claims to what makes the most sense. Feel free to ignore me now, as you more important things to worry about. tim On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 11:07 AM Robert Sparks wrote: > Hi Tim - > > This one is frustrating - whichever way we state it (old to new, or new > from old), several people chime in and want it the other way. > > The last time we went through this, several IESG members pushed for the > current form since it puts the most important bit of information (the state > _now_) first. > > We even with through iterations where we split the information onto > multiple lines, and tried to emphasize (in plain-text) the new state, but > pushback landed us where we are. > > (Note that the new state is bolded on this history page for the document). > > We can add quotes, and it would be nice to get other suggestions for how > to make the message more useful - for instance, would it be helpful for the > email message to say _who_ changed the state? > > RjS > > > On 6/19/21 1:47 PM, Tim Wicinski wrote: > > > I have a silly question. In these emails, the state change is > > State changed to None from WG Document > > Which feels very counter intuitive, and always causes a double take. > Why does it not read > > State changed from WG Document to None > > > Also, quotes around the state names make things more obvious. > > Will gladly file said bug, though it is a nit. > > tim > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: IETF Secretariat > Date: Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 2:38 PM > Subject: Datatracker State Update Notice: > > To: , , > > > > State changed to None from WG Document > > Datatracker URL: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server/ > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > --000000000000b5358405c5609539 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Robert

Tha= nks for the explanation.=C2=A0 I am not shocked by what you described, whic= h means I've been involved in the IETF long enough.=C2=A0
I'm wondering if t= he Subject line could contain the new state?=C2=A0

Subject:=C2=A0 New = Datatracker state Waiting for AD Go-Ahead <draft-ietf-....>

I went back and was looking=C2= =A0in my email for datatracker update emails, and they are not consistent.=
Here are a few examples:
<= div>
----
= IESG state changed:
New State: Waiting for AD Go-Ahead::Revised I-D Needed

(The previou= s state was Waiting for AD Go-Ahead)
---= -
IANA action state changed to "In = Progress"
----
The IETF WG state of draft-salgado-dnsop-rrserial has been c= hanged to
"Adopted by a WG" fr= om "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" by Tim Wicinski:
----
The DNSOP WG= has placed draft-sury-toorop-dnsop-server-cookies in state
Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Tim Wicinski)
= ----


Robert, I will be the first to say I= should be ignored because my OCD can drive
myself mad, let alone anyone else.=C2=A0= I also don't have any claims to what makes the=C2=A0
most sense.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=

Feel free to= ignore me now, as you more important things to worry about.=C2=A0

tim



On Tue, Jun = 22, 2021 at 11:07 AM Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Hi Tim -

This one is frustrating - whichever way we state it (old to new, or new from old), several people chime in and want it the other way.

The last time we went through this, several IESG members pushed for the current form since it puts the most important bit of information (the state _now_) first.

We even with through iterations where we split the information onto multiple lines, and tried to emphasize (in plain-text) the new state, but pushback landed us where we are.

(Note that the new state is bolded on this history page for the document).

We can add quotes, and it would be nice to get other suggestions for how to make the message more useful - for instance, would it be helpful for the email message to say _who_ changed the state?

RjS


On 6/19/21 1:47 PM, Tim Wicinski wrote:
=20

I have a silly question.=C2=A0 =C2=A0In these emails, the state change i= s=C2=A0
St= ate changed to None from WG Document
Which feels very counter intuitive, and always causes a double take.=C2=A0
Why does it not read

State changed from WG Document to None

Also, quotes around the state names make things more obvious.

Will gladly file said bug, though it is a nit.

tim
=C2=A0=

---------- Forwarded messag= e ---------
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@= ietf.org>
Date: Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 2:38 PM
Subject: Datatracker State Update Notice: <draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server-01.txt>
To: <dnsop-chairs@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-= server@ietf.org>, <warr= en@kumari.net>


State changed to None from WG Document
Datatracker URL: http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-shared-root-server/



___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org=
 bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/tools-discuss
--000000000000b5358405c5609539-- From nobody Tue Jun 22 17:41:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 155633A215A for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:41:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IRGu0xZz4J2S for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 327B13A2158 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B3338CC4; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 20:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 2-ddHyXM7sPU; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 20:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8991B38CC2; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 20:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD38E32; Tue, 22 Jun 2021 20:41:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <25460.1624388436@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] what version of markdown for IETF? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 00:41:36 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: > Revision is a word that can be used to describe steps in an orderly, > linear editing process. I don=E2=80=99t know how that word got into = the same > mail as the word markdown=E2=80=A6 Sorry, I should have used the word "version" here. I wrote the email while charing a meeting. > Tables weren=E2=80=99t part of the original markdown spec. This was = quickly > fixed in the then dominant PHP markdown implementation (the name of > which I forget), but other tools have implemented deviant versions of > that. Most notorious is github, which requires all-pipe vertical lin= es > for detection (no plus signs as with everyone else). John Gruber > abandoned markdown, and commonmark came a bit late. The rest is > history. > I don=E2=80=99t think we should try to be the guy that cleans up all = the kids=E2=80=99 > rooms in the whole neighborhood. I'm just thinking that codimd.ietf.org and datatracker.ietf.org (and our new wiki) should use compatible versions, whichever we think is best. >> I know that markdown has many flavours/versions. I have no idea how = to >> name them. >> >> Comparing: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2021-cellar-06-cella= r-01/ >> >> and: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2021-cellar-06-cellar >> >> you'll see that our nice table is not rendered as such on the DT. > Because the thing isn=E2=80=99t rendering markdown at all! I also clicked on the "markdown" link in the datatracker, btw, and I thought that it did render it. I just copied the wrong thing into email: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-cellar-06/materials/agend= a-interim-2021-cellar-06-cellar-01-01.md =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDSgzYACgkQgItw+93Q 3WX42wgApELICMbWg15d5l4UuQtLtD2PmYi7QjYqvSkEl9SgsyP7UPZYTVBo73vt AAsfLPfhMCca6iRM8nDIYHz7Kl/UDFbLR24+dnxvnrSYd09PSXVQcsZ7cEqGoA3V 2itSoHb6K2I9qDRdToRTAI9F1FaQRvPiU5AqR4LtVQRdq27Ic9gq15TrdTH6Am5T WiSNo5L6JfOuOnXEOpVlUrKnAitOmSBpW49R+ZLOpF22Iu3BA9+Ld/d7hVW5B9sz +RmR7d+P3wdqA/p4Z839mVCYaLPgALRHurUAEij0YreqXwtFqqYzsZ5so2r0sTHv fhDkiivxbWGxxW3D06JGeCiO4aAkog== =uPbp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jun 23 00:18:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A66A23A2D6A for ; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 00:18:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AWdghNIq5fz5 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 00:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC4DC3A2D67 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 00:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G8vkm2kNsz2xbM; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 09:18:40 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <19949.1624408886@localhost> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 09:18:39 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <25460.1624388436@localhost> <19949.1624408886@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] what version of markdown for IETF? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 07:18:49 -0000 On 23. Jun 2021, at 02:41, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > I'm just thinking that codimd.ietf.org and datatracker.ietf.org (and = our new > wiki) should use compatible versions, whichever we think is best. While this is fine as an aspirational goal, I don=E2=80=99t think it = really can be achieved. CodiMD (now HedgeDoc) is a significant piece of software that is moving = forward quickly, and it is probably too expensive to try to keep up a = modified local variant. We could, however, update the datatracker markdown rendering feature to = at least have approximate feature parity with CodiMD, by enabling the = =E2=80=9Cextras=E2=80=9D that are in common use today; see my previous = message about that. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jun 23 10:52:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC08F3A0763 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:52:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mGIaDyNBSg6C; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-72-66-99-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.99.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31EF03A0765; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Greg Wood In-Reply-To: <20210622050327.GS12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 13:52:06 -0400 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <946B3F85-78C8-423A-A77C-CC800EBFEA1A@ietf.org> References: <20210622050327.GS12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] interim recordings ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 17:52:13 -0000 Hi Toerless, My understanding is that recording of interim meetings is decided at the = WG level and not required. If an interim meeting is recorded, a WG chair = may request it be uploaded to the IETF YouTube channel.=20 To make interim meeting recordings that have been uploaded easier to = find, I=E2=80=99ve created a playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=3DPLC86T-6ZTP5j_khoLq--JPqCcTIX_ggDZ= Hope that helps. -Greg > On Jun 22, 2021, at 1:03 AM, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > Are there any *.ietf.org URLs on which to find recordings for interims = ? > I looked and could not find any. For full IETF, the recordings are > accessible from the agenda URL, but there is no equivalent for = interims (it seems). >=20 > Finding interrim sessions by name on youtube seems convoluted, and i = did not > manage to find recordings when i tried. >=20 > Thanks > Toerless >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 From nobody Wed Jun 23 10:58:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A62843A0864; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:58:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8E-bQDNLTQLM; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 247AF3A082C; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 10:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57709548002; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:58:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 500AC4E7847; Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:58:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:58:37 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Greg Wood Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210623175837.GE12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20210622050327.GS12022@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <946B3F85-78C8-423A-A77C-CC800EBFEA1A@ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <946B3F85-78C8-423A-A77C-CC800EBFEA1A@ietf.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] interim recordings ? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 17:58:57 -0000 On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 01:52:06PM -0400, Greg Wood wrote: > Hi Toerless, > > My understanding is that recording of interim meetings is decided at the WG level and not required. If an interim meeting is recorded, a WG chair may request it be uploaded to the IETF YouTube channel. Right. > To make interim meeting recordings that have been uploaded easier to find, I???ve created a playlist: > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC86T-6ZTP5j_khoLq--JPqCcTIX_ggDZ I am going to datatracker looking for a particular interim. How do i find it's recording ? Right now i go to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/past Then i click on e.g.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-dinrg-01/session/dinrg There i find all the meeting information. Except for the recording. I find thats highly illogical and dissatisfactory. How difficult would it be for the session recording URL to show up on that page ? Btw: These URLs all show the (useless) MeetEcho link. Right where that link is could be the recording link. Cheers Toerless > > Hope that helps. > > -Greg > > > > On Jun 22, 2021, at 1:03 AM, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > > Are there any *.ietf.org URLs on which to find recordings for interims ? > > I looked and could not find any. For full IETF, the recordings are > > accessible from the agenda URL, but there is no equivalent for interims (it seems). > > > > Finding interrim sessions by name on youtube seems convoluted, and i did not > > manage to find recordings when i tried. > > > > Thanks > > Toerless > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Fri Jun 25 11:52:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2117F3A081C for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:52:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=jRb+VCxQ; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=SMYWlIVQ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NRV0Q1jd4f8t for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6E0E3A07DB for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 94890 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2021 18:52:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=172a8.60d625ec.k2106; bh=RZCM8WU6At2bPxtU61984PWfVUEp3MYKQSmXeZ65DRM=; b=jRb+VCxQNgFNY0AxcPkIBJAdtbLEcgSyO63oprGxm7tOQa2ykQGAaDMWXGuvsSJDb/29j3XO0ismCc+D1I0Ui31lCbgU7TsVhqyXxO6tIqsiDgcbJzCoyC8SIjNtv/H0Ic10Xdq9t78BQ1EK8ge9KQz25GgEamp3GZS6pZUUFrUffyK5wM30lcGasRYPk8IiIVOslhu8+GufvC7EKpfN8gx3WpOZYU6rtKLlMypF/WEMVCMkUTNGEo+WuQTGaD0CcnqvolDHl5/1veoFCmn1cR8TSVp4fOqwNNujFDk2E26Q0in5+I6AwrjxCStufQTFPuuhzBEhthkxvT5u9WAFZw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=172a8.60d625ec.k2106; bh=RZCM8WU6At2bPxtU61984PWfVUEp3MYKQSmXeZ65DRM=; b=SMYWlIVQyoAqfrLig5mIe3ueQ6t+6kpiZJ8760pi+VA+K3SKgDBnnPEIIuA82Avw2AvTZ/YBqMRI4RXWPp4eVtQQjQmP3xrnN2ei8zFT/y+7kkxMv3231LpWq9IuRMRpwZ0/hVzzFwG+/E+3qZKVfsofbCaiRbVBKKXHt7YYgldXy3hPms8febJLencx5o1LT1Rk5TSfOareJjgWxElv5V5SM2GEGZixok99PNZ5M9zVlm8InD2itp+Hxn2LRxsg4xcxi7Zp757S6IbHzKwQ5xAXB14vmiETpDhyCRwLUPDE6RSgX2T0YpFhp9nMxvebWnNOxbqqT4v1i9drS9VqaQ== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 25 Jun 2021 18:52:28 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 99F9B17A53A7; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: 25 Jun 2021 14:52:26 -0400 Message-Id: <20210625185227.99F9B17A53A7@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Cleverness: minimal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Source for txt RFC htmlizer? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 18:52:38 -0000 Apropos of all of the grousing about wrong section references in HTML-ized RFCs, where's the source code for the tool? I've looked in some obvious places and haven't found it. R's, John From nobody Fri Jun 25 12:07:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97BF63A091E for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 12:07:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P8omiTBg1vlY for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 12:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 516FE3A091D for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 12:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GBRMJ0xbCz2xGd; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 21:07:08 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1818BADC-1A2E-42B7-926E-07ABB11FEE4B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20210625185227.99F9B17A53A7@ary.qy> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 21:07:07 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-Id: References: <20210625185227.99F9B17A53A7@ary.qy> To: John Levine X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18F72) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source for txt RFC htmlizer? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:07:15 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1818BADC-1A2E-42B7-926E-07ABB11FEE4B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/code I think this is the current version Sent from mobile, sorry for terse > On 25. Jun 2021, at 20:52, John Levine wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFApropos of all of the grousing about wrong section references in H= TML-ized RFCs, > where's the source code for the tool? I've looked in some obvious places a= nd haven't found it. >=20 > R's, > John >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org= > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/tools-discuss --Apple-Mail-1818BADC-1A2E-42B7-926E-07ABB11FEE4B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/code

<= div>I think this is the current version

Sent from&nb= sp;mobile, sorry for terse

On 25. Jun 2021, at 20:52, John L= evine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFApropos of all of the grousing a= bout wrong section references in HTML-ized RFCs,
where's the= source code for the tool?  I've looked in some obvious places and have= n't found it.

R's,
John


_____________________________= ______________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - T= ools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for a= ction requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mail= archive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools= .ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all oth= er bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (includ= ing how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss=
= --Apple-Mail-1818BADC-1A2E-42B7-926E-07ABB11FEE4B-- From nobody Fri Jun 25 12:48:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD7C3A0BEF for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 12:48:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=Dio6Lohf; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=Q+ClQPZa Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KmrHyMhPd8R9 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 12:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66D053A0BBD for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 12:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 9821 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2021 19:48:35 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=265a.60d63313.k2106; bh=GGTMtAk1MXGjxQwubijN+J68igJYZZ/fNQJ4/7np42g=; b=Dio6LohfYm8WC1nr9TzsYUCfWIM2V3dsBbG+41qaQ2XZ63SAhZahL/wNj2jqeKKbUATKmEnvdlMIUIZON7OH5n+4kHiSB51rQIPhM2l9dTsibxHuM66zdwAXQLvPwVsqXdorbNyEBu5sAPWKwNFpEZ9PnUIVf5LF0HRyDIeQO4Yp+D0w/2O8l5yFcDpftTKSAJPqKsTFjBqYPx/OoDrYLgbIM11TyppbGvLaZSBSCHqgfPdEuCGipFfLqJWKI9IWc8/hhPEp1hjGvwTAXodSXco6l7vV4yN5xyFn3FF6KM65elJsnGDegGy1yQd57y+3moxtp/K94fto8V9Nalsczg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=265a.60d63313.k2106; bh=GGTMtAk1MXGjxQwubijN+J68igJYZZ/fNQJ4/7np42g=; b=Q+ClQPZabbeOsKZAm7ejAxa/lzvOAd6p0b2l0oopic6Jexk8x2PR4ciaul2SwruWEGTg6tzn00xGNjj0EszQi6x9pDDHkOVIV3UgUlNK4JgmeJm9/+/2ljPy6VjKV0diYxH1E1CbbSZNKScRpL3pDja5cLiInv1e/zS6P9lbO5WpsB+qailxNbv7rdvqRQXJBvp82z1Z7/wvy3hUyJtv3nZoh+gBq63o+9drjgDionxwjrJ53oZmYfw2M6emj1isAYrq5Q64FOIJ4tSeEPWAwIfEMIUpID/nk+0wkVa44XBJzQwkgI1KPwDtKCuJPE6s0XqPZbd5mMlvXHGCb7Tixw== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 25 Jun 2021 19:48:34 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5C94917AEF7C; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 15:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.qy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1F617AEF50; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 15:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: 25 Jun 2021 15:48:32 -0400 Message-ID: <19f48ae7-1c5e-df2-df30-ca89e8786d3e@taugh.com> From: "John R Levine" To: "Carsten Bormann" , "John Levine" Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-X-Sender: johnl@ary.qy In-Reply-To: References: <20210625185227.99F9B17A53A7@ary.qy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-921101773-1624650513=:47715" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source for txt RFC htmlizer? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:48:48 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-921101773-1624650513=:47715 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/code > > I think this is the current version Thanks. The displayed code says version 1.120 but the changelog says the latest version is 1.129. I wonder where the code archive is. > > Sent from mobile, sorry for terse > >> On 25. Jun 2021, at 20:52, John Levine wrote: >> >> Apropos of all of the grousing about wrong section references in HTML-ized RFCs, >> where's the source code for the tool? I've looked in some obvious places and haven't found it. >> >> R's, >> John >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org >> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly --0-921101773-1624650513=:47715-- From nobody Fri Jun 25 13:17:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B2D3A0D08 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:17:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.416 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.416 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cUy1QMDkvXyo for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B64853A0D07 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unformal.localdomain ([47.186.34.206]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 15PKGvoO088728 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 15:16:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1624652218; bh=9ExQke3lYt0LdZFDPstuRHq9LF7Jogmh18Kp2rEI8nI=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=akRD1fpkFGqTF4vATTWU5QcKOPyttjbRqZenIbzT7Pgdudpw1GQNrtdhYWteHnf+R Eh2LVm2+PN+05eSlX6aiW6d8zX1svyFS1BVuSIFsXUri2vnYyrExhTU0E+ZpS6slFK Ssf7FuT5SwOU3Itxgt+YLj7oOBcQfe14Iru9gtXU= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.34.206] claimed to be unformal.localdomain To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210625185227.99F9B17A53A7@ary.qy> <19f48ae7-1c5e-df2-df30-ca89e8786d3e@taugh.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <90d8d0c2-df8b-d22c-53dd-be289118bd45@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 15:16:52 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19f48ae7-1c5e-df2-df30-ca89e8786d3e@taugh.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CAE5FDFA8101532903750645" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source for txt RFC htmlizer? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:17:06 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CAE5FDFA8101532903750645 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi John, Carsten - The thing you _really_ want to be looking at is rfc2html (that is what the datatracker is using - see https://pypi.org/project/rfc2html/), and the source for it is currently at http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/src/rfc2html/. I expect to be moving it soon. RjS On 6/25/21 2:48 PM, John R Levine wrote: >> https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/code >> >> I think this is the current version > > Thanks.  The displayed code says version 1.120 but the changelog says > the latest version is 1.129.  I wonder where the code archive is. > > >> >> Sent from mobile, sorry for terse >> >>> On 25. Jun 2021, at 20:52, John Levine wrote: >>> >>> Apropos of all of the grousing about wrong section references in >>> HTML-ized RFCs, >>> where's the source code for the tool?  I've looked in some obvious >>> places and haven't found it. >>> >>> R's, >>> John >>> >>> >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. >>> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: >>> datatracker-project@ietf.org >>> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org >>> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --------------CAE5FDFA8101532903750645 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi John, Carsten -

The thing you _really_ want to be looking at is rfc2html (that is what the datatracker is using - see https://pypi.org/project/rfc2html/), and the source for it is currently at http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/src/rfc2html/.

I expect to be moving it soon.

RjS

On 6/25/21 2:48 PM, John R Levine wrote:
https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/code

I think this is the current version

Thanks.  The displayed code says version 1.120 but the changelog says the latest version is 1.129.  I wonder where the code archive is.



Sent from mobile, sorry for terse

On 25. Jun 2021, at 20:52, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

Apropos of all of the grousing about wrong section references in HTML-ized RFCs,
where's the source code for the tool?  I've looked in some obvious places and haven't found it.

R's,
John


___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss


Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
--------------CAE5FDFA8101532903750645-- From nobody Fri Jun 25 13:27:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DBB63A0D99 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:27:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_FAIL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t8o8Jl6mYrLR for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE1353A0D97 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GBT7H6mbsz2xGb; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 22:26:51 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <19f48ae7-1c5e-df2-df30-ca89e8786d3e@taugh.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 22:26:50 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210625185227.99F9B17A53A7@ary.qy> <19f48ae7-1c5e-df2-df30-ca89e8786d3e@taugh.com> To: John R Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source for txt RFC htmlizer? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:27:01 -0000 On 25. Jun 2021, at 21:48, John R Levine wrote: >=20 > Thanks. The displayed code says version 1.120 but the changelog says = the latest version is 1.129. I wonder where the code archive is. Robert has the real answer to your original question, but the answer to = this question is: https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/rfcmarkup-1.129.tgz Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Jun 26 09:17:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AFFC3A1B48 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 09:17:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=Jk+euIvi; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=KdP/UjXe Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rWOsSDjyTDaX for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 09:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFD843A1B47 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 09:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 76761 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2021 16:17:33 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=12bc8.60d7531d.k2106; bh=2PkdryrJ7s08QWwiWpfxA3eVuXGr17y/SOPZOFqrEd4=; b=Jk+euIvieLgaOhfRLdAMZKnrcnGLylI+QCl8dPskvTgA9dGnb7hpmGjdg4sO42Srq2qunR0D6KAk9b6TXc96BCG60BwJB3SdUBHtNWZfhoNI6Qdq7fHgLf9+6uMuaYEsscZjET4HaHUn3wEvdlyrpeX4o2n4L/Hch6rZDOgsAOOANMtxaKBPm2KWcdDWsiMGeQjtQgq4kb/gmbgCN+KwBgfKs3ZsIYaH3NGsHyCGxZeS3Esj8WawgqRObdwnS58fVebxkKk8PZyQpj5gPQtjmFlN1H5j50/FZxKi4scp+qAeOGaGT8YGINTHJ0RODWg0WLQetyf8J1VdpnAgqGCSCg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=12bc8.60d7531d.k2106; bh=2PkdryrJ7s08QWwiWpfxA3eVuXGr17y/SOPZOFqrEd4=; b=KdP/UjXehCLCuvdz9A7Nh9LpZPglWIDLwoamZQXhhyNiRZismyu6XDw7hFBioKi6PDeQyylxFN85GB03t0LR0aXWudu5EWOFmgcV8zLRy4qn4loXBCOj7T1V7/pUrbgARe+uMBX5K0uQD101J3htpl6FqnNjtd95txIYMsgrCyyuiSegTHRp5JbUDdlDugm4r5uAykpxjhL5Bt3Wodhty5KZJBTfBvsDFosBU21i3iwIqnzodWd0k2HsJDpDnX+sg0HDpR2xkRnge9UL7QDc+lcDeCWlr5fw9CVqKTFdMAQVxatDNssKJb9zlng531BOZmHe5LOyAZCjI/d2OQAHnA== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 26 Jun 2021 16:17:33 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 927C1182ED22; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.qy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41197182ED03; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: 26 Jun 2021 12:17:32 -0400 Message-ID: <5a3e3c7-5753-4d18-9750-3a83393a7b3@taugh.com> From: "John R Levine" To: "Carsten Bormann" Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-X-Sender: johnl@ary.qy In-Reply-To: References: <20210625185227.99F9B17A53A7@ary.qy> <19f48ae7-1c5e-df2-df30-ca89e8786d3e@taugh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source for txt RFC htmlizer? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:17:41 -0000 > Robert has the real answer to your original question, but the answer to this question is: > https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/rfcmarkup-1.129.tgz Thanks. Since we evidently plan to keep using this, someone should adopt it and at least turn it from python2 into python3. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Sat Jun 26 09:42:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AC863A1C3C for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 09:42:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=JPUvyMVF; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=ckOQ+Ec3 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id li4MXcRHctM0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 09:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4259A3A1C3B for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 09:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 84729 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2021 16:42:31 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=14af6.60d758f7.k2106; bh=o9l8xTm4qyb4v0M8vWvC46RguRlVFn1LyF7WBHOOjbE=; b=JPUvyMVFxnKfSLHX8ANVqgrgR7Q8SW/VYQ+jfoe0ZGXA4q/7X4AvXpZVID0yXMxyxEz+yjn4Q94X/zM5pgFcpwqE71bKXEKFg3Lrs/BxFwkidk42iqBynnAGFv6vGIqV8D5LbCMq36sUEVMxAoO5HuJhHE/dMdTxMMA3ezyIihPGm79F9Xz43aSqDS6ftMbZ/NxwG9BslFF8fS3xafkA76Gl3f8vn/CV/kiirONDO3kpL1chmT6sSHPqTtxFe8ZMUIqYA/AUbchY0YZyaSg1eKBmClV+z7zRMQPIqUdUu0Yec9XNWW2CwK+G3hDEgxT7Hhfvko4O08QIEDtg8Muk+Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=14af6.60d758f7.k2106; bh=o9l8xTm4qyb4v0M8vWvC46RguRlVFn1LyF7WBHOOjbE=; b=ckOQ+Ec3nbyggJNlTzNtlkAucImLZPVZgRTfnwYbazsza3Ca5P7wTyuXgQD3Pnj3zxg2ANNrD2vUJaQVaBp2NEIF/qQfK3sIriQjNBkBa0KJOIak6yPa1dVs8ZwkQNBQ123xix1N7vfG37+i1s7ZjJaPVjglIW8+qI/BOs/CDY6VPQOwD7OaKsgS5a+CHottKnd+QInlHLalGV3LiorVj85jHc+PUiiZDYSNsJDRxpA979NAAdeD4aYNzwkuTFfETVflth9Okf1IZ8kQ00Dv3aD31WLuTXNnublqrkaWogiW41T32cUhV32Ha0DvrRkTFmCAJ6TzTFGE/gMDwPo52g== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 26 Jun 2021 16:42:30 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3C03618314A2; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: 26 Jun 2021 12:42:30 -0400 Message-Id: <20210626164230.3C03618314A2@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Cc: johnl@taugh.com In-Reply-To: <5a3e3c7-5753-4d18-9750-3a83393a7b3@taugh.com> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Cleverness: minimal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Source for txt RFC htmlizer? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:42:39 -0000 It appears that John R Levine said: >> Robert has the real answer to your original question, but the answer to this question is: >> https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/rfcmarkup-1.129.tgz > >Thanks. > >Since we evidently plan to keep using this, someone should adopt it and at >least turn it from python2 into python3. Never mind, saw Robert's note. R's, John From nobody Sat Jun 26 16:08:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C633A08FF for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QRkvPTVQuCW4 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com (mail-pl1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8077D3A08CF for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id f10so6706699plg.0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:07:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:to:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cvzPgurehBRldfne2aW3nn/oTtNiALnGcT+tN4xNEFM=; b=eEDFa/cG85l5rFU20iL5qxNPqr7PQonKp8my3HE77rc24OntJ/kN3NguMlcrvHyMHb KAkAsLYmTGWNhQmCPIb5ErzRse7Ycodo99wrtp1oFmKzqol5ydHX7vmd0so+3OEj8Tsh gY2FTUZ5pjLmYot0kpV2Kx8xMmrtr443FPzpiQfYX6gOWJ2iGvwRjNG/5utH+iya4/yF rN6QiJNhPT3p/vBJdOgc12309PrSjgHL4N9Hj+qNvUUWUms3QFYRWhtaNrYnQa0LOhSR jyXXEg89rfUSC2Qi6rCAx3078uTUeErYUt5ViZw4lpx4ap5d7UVZ9bUKQ2dZnEAWsRFL Y5yg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cvzPgurehBRldfne2aW3nn/oTtNiALnGcT+tN4xNEFM=; b=Vzm67rPhdQLc2b0pi6i5erMWK786k+v4FBhRA69ZsxPpUJj3h+LmSRebseEBLu+1io FtlRtkWqt2svrWXi3d4TPKHyHcYMlsRuPmRa1ed9/3ru2BjAH4XhZMMPh23fPSC1sF01 E8nZSn/jkRTixiECe8seMi3LTY8YvuvgLPyKZvBhzNW3dMxt+W4Kh6TtBbDhB9iJqPrN VLvEA+YtIY1hN8qv1iLfXE1HiVMsnFcFv9Xs8bs2wCKeWGja0Jf8cMX2VwHXoy3qwATt KyklvIqp3pLWSPeBGPgKefzpoFsNdM3tWhGxzdN5Ns4p0I06KIe2I/A/+i49UJxx6eAJ P/3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532PTPQeqnym/HaKi4knUEtOjRgN36dQCUuEsvaMknCmGGjx5A+/ 1skKVKDt3ZbMHt9e+P6y1kYrHY4YUeOUhw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx5yyXX+H2fN2VBqJg1+/f+leqr+oQn6ya+AeaEW9HbUOvtwxaVbxchLYs/g7s3atW6pu4xjQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:bc89:: with SMTP id x9mr18980986pjr.228.1624748874202; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 18sm14728674pje.22.2021.06.26.16.07.52 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:07:53 -0700 (PDT) References: <162474738540.1965.17784734295910003435@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Tools Team Discussion From: Brian E Carpenter X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <162474738540.1965.17784734295910003435@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:07:51 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <162474738540.1965.17784734295910003435@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:08:00 -0000 Why does the subject field and the Filename say ".txt" for a v3 draft? Brian -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 15:43:05 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: anima@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org CC: anima@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Guidelines for Autonomic Service Agents Authors : Brian Carpenter Laurent Ciavaglia Sheng Jiang Pierre Peloso Filename : draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2021-06-26 Abstract: This document proposes guidelines for the design of Autonomic Service Agents for autonomic networks. Autonomic Service Agents, together with the Autonomic Network Infrastructure, the Autonomic Control Plane and the Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol constitute base elements of a so-called autonomic networks ecosystem. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Anima mailing list Anima@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima From nobody Sat Jun 26 18:33:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8F03A10F9 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 18:33:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=biNf8BPM; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=SrLEBkDe Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 94AkPdkLz4fk for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 18:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 624103A10F5 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 18:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 40337 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2021 01:32:59 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=9d8f.60d7d54b.k2106; bh=ZDdvLXEdsCto3S1nd2McTGPTYkTEEqFkd+sWVpknKO0=; b=biNf8BPMwNTnWdo2UATDJxnAEspx3SKOMjM9WtorrES78e9T3YM9SZlegXfZLxG7GEY0zSAHu9lpwZVj1+3laRhQoB/eW+JFgwi2ZZxbzmk1n64BLDoY4GARANNb6PpnvN3Bulc//kCznSaWDpTzExFN7gKc9AjJBf7YkNuZe3H2xq6fAN84BPa4HzReQ+vAesCjWIzbbLoEAOeKRHf4hfD9zaMgYYqNaEtrJWc4FboFPJz71/OIQW0/HHvx23VET+zVAZ4bjljUG5SnDyn3krlZlv9L8GUK3p5P2UpQqdR8pYNpgmSNbC7hBQ0n85JGK8gMUHgrTsuWPRuERmOyCw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=9d8f.60d7d54b.k2106; bh=ZDdvLXEdsCto3S1nd2McTGPTYkTEEqFkd+sWVpknKO0=; b=SrLEBkDeRcmJ2wJgRmYX7hRTIhWwqESAJuRhnLXDiADgwKzmyO+ivmlUX6WyljETaWR/ysmqphhdCvHsIMDj3ht/f2WwcZ9swWWVLWkCYOtaF/OTbrGzt6DuH42S2p6G9uFxEfsdx/SAhYAFfKgSNSDXEu4xJX4ZVHsfgynTdLo/PKWV8XQmqgdNqmVubYUFYuTBP5acg7Tn/dHPC2bNkN6pigE3i6Vi3Nq1q7AGNc/fx9t3tfY5r1vP/F2FqmvwMWERlFVD0jdsR3FeY07LV6GkEF28D9C5+2btS/wgc9PBFiUeNlgPQ3qWg64broGqlvJcd47uefKB0TLdqMUCSQ== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 27 Jun 2021 01:32:58 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1D30F188447C; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 21:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: 26 Jun 2021 21:32:56 -0400 Message-Id: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Cleverness: minimal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 01:33:07 -0000 It appears that Brian E Carpenter said: >Why does the subject field and the Filename say ".txt" for a v3 draft? Because you can still submit text I-D's if you want. If you submit xml it'll render it into text, but it can't go the other way. If your I-D makes it into the publication queue and there isn't an XML version, the RPC will hand convert your text but that doesn't happen very often now except for people who write their drafts in MS Word. R's, John >-------- Forwarded Message -------- >Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt >Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 15:43:05 -0700 >From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >Reply-To: anima@ietf.org >To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >CC: anima@ietf.org > > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. > > Title : Guidelines for Autonomic Service Agents > Authors : Brian Carpenter > Laurent Ciavaglia > Sheng Jiang > Pierre Peloso > Filename : draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt > Pages : 27 > Date : 2021-06-26 > >Abstract: > This document proposes guidelines for the design of Autonomic Service > Agents for autonomic networks. Autonomic Service Agents, together > with the Autonomic Network Infrastructure, the Autonomic Control > Plane and the Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol constitute base > elements of a so-called autonomic networks ecosystem. From nobody Sat Jun 26 19:03:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8583A12E8 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:03:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.436 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i_OqLEmJU1Kn for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62a.google.com (mail-pl1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B81EF3A12E7 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id f10so6845997plg.0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:03:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sT62F+3fSQ8wP5LhgWsFfPP9g9+VA1/dd+sCGdJ2OPo=; b=bzp/FEDLQrJNKEvJ3J7jjiLujepz/uk6PO0WJ7wNlCVlpvhEEQR0M6bAXXxab+r+jo nM39n6DJDje6L7xEn75hhafRF1xse1/3FO3qape/7COuFM6W6W9i+SxHyw6IkmKRZT7n a0rI0AdD630enGzpomnQLEeLyOcROy8NvFrVTgZkMYujwSpFTC+HcHmREHSkCZ8Lpknd I5SvrYpQACkZbNgw/xjdRPvHOEKHYJZ4lCuM7DQUNSAXq9ggtbl1jYWulGWdDm+CYsTp eXzXhcsjQeo7EAo9RRl9gXKdUO1uWi/GNK2O9iYb+8vKeQ7kMF1UyzIAJ/oB1d5738gf Xo+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sT62F+3fSQ8wP5LhgWsFfPP9g9+VA1/dd+sCGdJ2OPo=; b=aJf0G63Z25wuLdV582+M+K6xNO0cT2J5+sW73cRANXdOOWPJLtUNeAkjEyOH7N0BV0 iy9IcX+AbixFEGZ5Xjj8PmAZfjNeAahMb6fUEfydvkmpPHAKU45XRTIef20ESQsNzZMK 02WRcBtxQW/dcvwukffNF4sZ0jlEJh5JwFJl+LZljQ08HaW+bKlB108tO/yJOkLA8R6F o38ddHuNOU1s+ZMsa3c6lP4LrhfIND0Rz340V7QNXnNNmlBNiJLRvAib7cYJQAzGXmLN sgvQb6Ma/uSPko04emfSD0Vtn9Ber2ytLAldVV8jMOV5fBmSFLWfnhkuN7kJ+yIADBiV 8FlA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Xj+sSAJ8IW6GOsY8B45N0EtefvZkXwx7c6iPq22k4LaACbXs+ rDhxZZYDV+AKCw0LwQ7OH3KQUtQVMLO0iA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxzS1N+XRkFcfR7X7elpF1XiPUs/JW4+Z9XfzVkI+bfxJBaDskvQgv9eEc6GcG2e608TmJjfA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:dac8:b029:127:9cd2:ec5d with SMTP id q8-20020a170902dac8b02901279cd2ec5dmr14044203plx.6.1624759430533; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id gd5sm15496106pjb.45.2021.06.26.19.03.48 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:03:49 -0700 (PDT) To: John Levine , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:03:47 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:03:54 -0000 Well, let me ask it another way. Why aren't we actively encouraging people to submit xml2rfcv3 source, and rewarding those who do so with a message that makes it clear that this is what we prefer? I accidentally submitted xml2rfcv2 source the other day, and the system just sucked it in without even pointing out that it was so 20th century. I hope that the various tool updates we've been promised will firmly nudge people towards v3. Regards Brian Carpenter On 27-Jun-21 13:32, John Levine wrote: > It appears that Brian E Carpenter said: >> Why does the subject field and the Filename say ".txt" for a v3 draft? > > Because you can still submit text I-D's if you want. If you submit xml > it'll render it into text, but it can't go the other way. > > If your I-D makes it into the publication queue and there isn't an XML > version, the RPC will hand convert your text but that doesn't happen > very often now except for people who write their drafts in MS Word. > > R's, > John > > >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt >> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 15:43:05 -0700 >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> Reply-To: anima@ietf.org >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> CC: anima@ietf.org >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. >> >> Title : Guidelines for Autonomic Service Agents >> Authors : Brian Carpenter >> Laurent Ciavaglia >> Sheng Jiang >> Pierre Peloso >> Filename : draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt >> Pages : 27 >> Date : 2021-06-26 >> >> Abstract: >> This document proposes guidelines for the design of Autonomic Service >> Agents for autonomic networks. Autonomic Service Agents, together >> with the Autonomic Network Infrastructure, the Autonomic Control >> Plane and the Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol constitute base >> elements of a so-called autonomic networks ecosystem. From nobody Sat Jun 26 19:14:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FEAA3A1361 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:14:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=SweZr8qu; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=aJyIiujl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n5Kat0sUc-Sk for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9751B3A135F for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 47387 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2021 02:14:20 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=b917.60d7defc.k2106; bh=2D0DNY8ZRwOcyJmtctvM4oGX5YIH9eKqVjoKZZOQuQk=; b=SweZr8quCpZMeqvYXFpyP8BB0yz9tR9HvwWHbGU28Y+auSaofxBp1l8e6zZz32awsbqqHkZdYGXcEZry86aSEU01lmOoEaZyDxAyTYuqsVMEMohjnMRc42PBrHMQS/8F9BXCPsH7R1g+h81dMmXQSjv2qFOWW35AApFdRwt4yCMYB2Pmf+p0/4AjCqU88O+xOxIlyCyekeZHRNGuMbhJ/E+N4phrjzoXu7UzcBgl6wk/AwYpRx69tm4p7Fd8hHAb+Xm0E6hXo+vhXqGqamGYL1GmCVjDFvQObPFpGhxsvSC6KR4loynfK4nGE47n489+l0CSDFA2kOQcKIUUm+TA0g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=b917.60d7defc.k2106; bh=2D0DNY8ZRwOcyJmtctvM4oGX5YIH9eKqVjoKZZOQuQk=; b=aJyIiujlgg5HvevZ0YRjq7DLH9v7u60vDNZDcAqaLD2bxb8Fr7sg20s5ayMHNw0f1jK5f338bwCY0gObXUmBnQ37APs9fIMUOoCoX9rJAcpokP9DzcILagl3JwLgL++vOuyvniCRN34qaBQQWyM8BLgS0sV0GLh0DQpQD/tO2JyUdM0M3+AqCjFIF+w+X43E2SwCA1Yl74NQHCctdpBcFwL5WSYucZS8Kr6PkXfeqUHwkvgeB02dhLHSKe3NDB7EeHZU92bAcubfH8Ui/5B67qP/eBuD3GAeISSLUlXhBHaG3Dtso5NNh++UxtJ/z0tXgoZK6Z3lO5xt+rf3n0ogGw== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 27 Jun 2021 02:14:20 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 612F5188986F; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.qy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E605188984A; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: 26 Jun 2021 22:14:17 -0400 Message-ID: <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> From: "John R Levine" To: "Brian E Carpenter" , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-X-Sender: johnl@ary.qy In-Reply-To: <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:14:30 -0000 > Why aren't we actively encouraging people to submit xml2rfcv3 source, and rewarding those who do so with a message that makes it clear that this is what we prefer? Among the many things on the to-do list is to redo the I-D submission page to make it clearer that you only need to submit one version of a draft, and that we'd appreciate the XML version if you have one. R's, John > On 27-Jun-21 13:32, John Levine wrote: >> It appears that Brian E Carpenter said: >>> Why does the subject field and the Filename say ".txt" for a v3 draft? >> >> Because you can still submit text I-D's if you want. If you submit xml >> it'll render it into text, but it can't go the other way. >> >> If your I-D makes it into the publication queue and there isn't an XML >> version, the RPC will hand convert your text but that doesn't happen >> very often now except for people who write their drafts in MS Word. >> >> R's, >> John >> >> >>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>> Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt >>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 15:43:05 -0700 >>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >>> Reply-To: anima@ietf.org >>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>> CC: anima@ietf.org >>> >>> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : Guidelines for Autonomic Service Agents >>> Authors : Brian Carpenter >>> Laurent Ciavaglia >>> Sheng Jiang >>> Pierre Peloso >>> Filename : draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt >>> Pages : 27 >>> Date : 2021-06-26 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This document proposes guidelines for the design of Autonomic Service >>> Agents for autonomic networks. Autonomic Service Agents, together >>> with the Autonomic Network Infrastructure, the Autonomic Control >>> Plane and the Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol constitute base >>> elements of a so-called autonomic networks ecosystem. > > Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Sat Jun 26 19:31:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B2D3A13FC for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:31:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.436 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f9M10JMSZ7zA for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7350F3A13FA for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id x16so10900104pfa.13 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:31:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hEnqDi258PirCSc+HLfUq2+R/4y/SHho3OnH/eAtPPo=; b=Ln49LDa+kC4+RUgBKaUuvoiZ92T91ttlm9Yv57t/KII2G5Q78WQOzJLAZ6EFHXgDUf pLFPnChHm6aCtxr0E3sr+sVaA9AQUD1ZUcf/dje99NJAotHJ281RwX34azFDS/m4VWje QDVgpfUmi8Ksrm1AfuU2eSypLWL6JVGAoRjs86qSHbQS8JDL1hZ9QnVIVZsuciekezuq FsDeOz6cV02EoV9lMcCeRPLe2k58zq8uN9bWtQzQZgVJ6v31EbxNeIISCdnCb31MsVzy xJQ1yOVg61WdV3k9g2bVHl71zJgzifq7ZMdhsyqRDwpHKMrTTz+LeufNhwgqwFtG2DmA MhUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=hEnqDi258PirCSc+HLfUq2+R/4y/SHho3OnH/eAtPPo=; b=XDdwA1LYJMGz3UtBwLzxfwOOczvczn9oLrzUzdFQniO2P4a4wJN7pGg9UvIU4j9NX2 FYxXqAHp+YXryM4pKwpa4yblS4o0TbIfaWkXOkpTQ33mBUgmBcj1UGgpo7FFBntK7a3F 2hd3TZYHbXcLmJwEC8ucbIUz5KuTY8L70R9Fzb9wLdAHUcSSpmBBLPHUH9iTQQh3QNg9 ginXqdQB1m3TjlHuG143iXt+DR0dprlEaryY3cwTOB5HPBpvmjms7+h5GMbhUlyNl09V zwKHJTN/7unkYZtgndNTFDZAbxH4DLtGsbEM55vyc6gQdqjYJC7sJIZvo2r/h9s+wBoF O6Qg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531lwBDmni09Sg0F9aptP0Df9gKDxsOEYuPX2A/50aod9wvP1xVS 7oqLSgAg9NMZMXEXeuuWhaUAjv71X0Cw7Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwi3hleU1DATsRArUwlGQx2TLRilAWSM0b/3mEUExrkzeFxuRfY5ZvdgDVDvij1QAuE+ORcGg== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6659:: with SMTP id z25mr16858176pgv.291.1624761098010; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 65sm9641689pfe.115.2021.06.26.19.31.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:31:37 -0700 (PDT) To: John R Levine , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:31:34 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31:44 -0000 On 27-Jun-21 14:14, John R Levine wrote: >> Why aren't we actively encouraging people to submit xml2rfcv3 source, and rewarding those who do so with a message that makes it clear that this is what we prefer? > > Among the many things on the to-do list is to redo the I-D submission page > to make it clearer that you only need to submit one version of a draft, > and that we'd appreciate the XML version if you have one. Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter automatically? Brian > > R's, > John > >> On 27-Jun-21 13:32, John Levine wrote: >>> It appears that Brian E Carpenter said: >>>> Why does the subject field and the Filename say ".txt" for a v3 draft? >>> >>> Because you can still submit text I-D's if you want. If you submit xml >>> it'll render it into text, but it can't go the other way. >>> >>> If your I-D makes it into the publication queue and there isn't an XML >>> version, the RPC will hand convert your text but that doesn't happen >>> very often now except for people who write their drafts in MS Word. >>> >>> R's, >>> John >>> >>> >>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>> Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt >>>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 15:43:05 -0700 >>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >>>> Reply-To: anima@ietf.org >>>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>>> CC: anima@ietf.org >>>> >>>> >>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>>> This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. >>>> >>>> Title : Guidelines for Autonomic Service Agents >>>> Authors : Brian Carpenter >>>> Laurent Ciavaglia >>>> Sheng Jiang >>>> Pierre Peloso >>>> Filename : draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-01.txt >>>> Pages : 27 >>>> Date : 2021-06-26 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This document proposes guidelines for the design of Autonomic Service >>>> Agents for autonomic networks. Autonomic Service Agents, together >>>> with the Autonomic Network Infrastructure, the Autonomic Control >>>> Plane and the Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol constitute base >>>> elements of a so-called autonomic networks ecosystem. >> >> > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly > From nobody Sat Jun 26 19:40:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843753A1463 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:40:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=4U5ehbxN; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=IpSp8O9m Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r3FZo39Gzp7D for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5DC03A1462 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 52613 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2021 02:40:42 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=cd83.60d7e52a.k2106; bh=rRbXbN7vQwOMv9Qa7fFQvgXnEaur34InlB5+DSyIKRM=; b=4U5ehbxNeJfrKMHGL7Wn1M6msyA1xG3LXmk5eWF4nD8i+WMoAH/4NmQ/AnljGDK/+RknwNLeoiWaTkPTAOv4Pu5vhCGn0zrRYLQZxNySjDYAXyj3X58q3NPOrsyxAvDpNS5CkZAWET1yQg/Wbjqa02jtSQZCdoLXanfFl9NBg56TgeYYPQAnDvWrmgtB9Iuoeu6F455VKlROf1FjpFSHkzt42z6A5Gdbumk98NjJn/1Srvotr5zwvy1PQ4lsFIPDX2MLdaEBztWaXYVADpUVgko33Bfd9k2mSyJsboLYvoi+toIyAgpu5o6rz/JPNEn3tWm7fZKPbIjnRYhZHFiuEQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=cd83.60d7e52a.k2106; bh=rRbXbN7vQwOMv9Qa7fFQvgXnEaur34InlB5+DSyIKRM=; b=IpSp8O9mQ/RTi5NuuVlZbz3AipdhRtJIgJqRQjpiqSysZCDlYfjybsH0Glx7kQ5YYL4DBGgVZk/F1JKPTjgY16oz7O/gmDeUhHqbWKyhlgDl3JhKfAV/jtlEoDZquyW2aFGo0E5LT4dsTrehyl76aZBzSbjz9c6WifGgG5CIsX71Ffz/dqy0evo1P8vUrOAxARyDQai5pIGCVwIFjKD1k0gGRU/0uubN0X5LjOMXfAGI1Fy/thdreQo8zfM4KAjdXWRCrHXOaI37m9bkEYodOEI3IXJfc9QEKL6roQtpsNkBWunx4/N62beJ0f3YKDPft5ZSmTne3ok+iDMJN131jw== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 27 Jun 2021 02:40:42 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9DA4E188C935; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.qy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC1C188C909; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: 26 Jun 2021 22:40:40 -0400 Message-ID: <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> From: "John R Levine" To: "Brian E Carpenter" , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-X-Sender: johnl@ary.qy In-Reply-To: <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:40:50 -0000 >> Among the many things on the to-do list is to redo the I-D submission page >> to make it clearer that you only need to submit one version of a draft, >> and that we'd appreciate the XML version if you have one. > > Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter automatically? We really want people to stop using v2. It's obsolete and missing some semantic features of v3. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Sat Jun 26 22:09:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F563A1AB0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:09:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.436 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id euJl8_WwmCPq for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62a.google.com (mail-pl1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 696683A1AAE for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id f10so6991047plg.0 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:09:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GVHkfgsFyzfLcnUZ86ou3FzvkWsW4rU/hhRfPJcAm6c=; b=ACe4Onkz7BnHHlr1LPa0u+rRdFYWXqtiEkM5nHg1wDp7saaR9p4vJ5P0jW1zE/Q1a9 P/BD6qt2ilHOQSwA2MGmTTMSCYFddHEFZsCsi8Ig5T+sH24QoXf1bxk5IlVALmnyTVP6 LNRna32QIRM/fNsWzpHKypo129XvPqZR9zYcPTYeWVAJtnGSUEkTFnQWC9ndebDBcQ2X U/oeSoqzsV/sI8aY9Te+88MmUfIR0LoeNp0Al6Zxy+J8pveHLgkL0ly7uGcQWGpkN/DP L0dSqSuAYUSXVU/eNQueH1sQJYK+3TLHkr7l+7EE9jdHiWG5YZum8onvIlevDWRysvkQ i5rA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GVHkfgsFyzfLcnUZ86ou3FzvkWsW4rU/hhRfPJcAm6c=; b=VxKXcZkak5BICHRK35+R6UlRuSQMaZiL/QoZFeoGo56jL7QU3Bj9+dVHbPU/uzcnli VqG6SXUEVR93S1S+fLnYgjwFNdWZhQ5ZQ17HXU4xU4r8I2KjChLVQ8ZwKT5wNJNsggMJ KWzzJN60EZiCjFG0baVcYBbUP4P3pmWmtQBDOhrxEBRbBHS/pq49KqeNF52ZTWxED0zc wGRnc7lKyrbwV37M0lsIxE+/j/qsAU1XaHOwJ2mN17emUAE71T/9fV+1q+VgFEQYMntX 1waox41sJ2NJl8k7ekWgADsp8y+evUJDAG5hP8Ft5QtU8VMFPSuy71mN2X1AiWDcAbZa T9ZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5304JPpq1z8pO5Yo8hy1yq6LvGCHwR6y7v6jc4v+nlzmgukM0PcS 0qOkyjeFI07LRfvGukqt0KNekc/ztGgjBA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx5uPG9iOb6xnmCFNJZ8guZ1aN40LhfCkJCEYvm+kvINU3evURzmLE8Y2fXrcTt5Q5Cur0ZnA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a797:: with SMTP id f23mr12208282pjq.190.1624770559348; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c68sm9877237pfc.75.2021.06.26.22.09.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:09:18 -0700 (PDT) To: John R Levine , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <693a2cdc-123a-8bf5-759d-14cc94088cf0@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:09:14 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 05:09:27 -0000 On 27-Jun-21 14:40, John R Levine wrote: >>> Among the many things on the to-do list is to redo the I-D submission page >>> to make it clearer that you only need to submit one version of a draft, >>> and that we'd appreciate the XML version if you have one. >> >> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter automatically? > > We really want people to stop using v2. It's obsolete and missing some > semantic features of v3. I fully agree. But isn't the submission page the primary place to put the necessary nudges and warnings? I'm sure you and Robert know this, but between the ancient state of https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/ and the confusing state of https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/experimental.html, what is a poor user supposed to do, if they don't want to install and maintain their own copy of everything? Brian From nobody Sat Jun 26 23:03:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 305393A1C58 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wag4RD6iaZQD for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4D523A1C57 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GCKtY2vZZz2xHS; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:03:49 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:03:48 +0200 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> To: John R Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:03:57 -0000 On 27. Jun 2021, at 04:40, John R Levine wrote: >=20 >>> Among the many things on the to-do list is to redo the I-D = submission page >>> to make it clearer that you only need to submit one version of a = draft, >>> and that we'd appreciate the XML version if you have one. >>=20 >> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter = automatically? >=20 > We really want people to stop using v2. It's obsolete and missing = some semantic features of v3. People are now often submitting v2 with v3 features, which is perfectly = fine until v3 stabilises. Why doesn=E2=80=99t the submission page run this through the v2 to v3 = converter? The behaviour that runs last decade=E2=80=99s tools when it detects v2 = may have been acceptable as a safety measure for a couple of months when = the transition started but is completely broken now. This really needs = to be fixed NOW. Sheesh. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Jun 26 23:26:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7F53A1CFA for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:26:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UivYZ4bi6XCz for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AC6E3A1CF9 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GCLNC0DnVz2xHS; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:26:03 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:26:02 +0200 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> To: John R Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Let's not be hostile to authors X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:26:11 -0000 On 27. Jun 2021, at 04:40, John R Levine wrote: >=20 >> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter = automatically? >=20 > We really want people to stop using v2. It's obsolete and missing = some semantic features of v3. John, let me be blunt here. The attitude that it is OK to be hostile to document authors in order to = further some meaningless abstract goal is completely unacceptable and = has to stop. There are good reasons to continue submitting v2 or v2-with-v3 = documents. For people actually authoring in XML, the version control history of all = but the most recently started documents is in v2. A wholesale v3 = conversion loses all that history. For people using a tool to generate the XML, it is unacceptable to = require their tools to generate exactly the v3 of the day, in particular = as xml2rfc has a perfect v3 generator inside, which by the nature of the = process is more likely to stay in sync with the ongoing fixes to v3. And, in case I haven't been clear enough, the needs (and even more so = the wants!) of the RPC are entirely secondary to those of the authors = here, as 98 % of the work on a document happens before the RPC gets it, = and the resources feeding that work are non-renewable. (And yes, the abstract goal of furthering the v3 transition is not = entirely meaningless in the long run, but we are *way* off from that = goal being a realistic short-term objective. And the feature of xml2rfc = to be more permissive in its converter input than the v3 publishing = format must *never* go away, at least as long as we consider the time = and quality of work of our authors and tool makers to be a precious = resource.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sun Jun 27 02:01:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCC33A21B1 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:01:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.236 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.236 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id siZUtUpVCRAw for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 369BD3A21AE for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:01:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1624784462; bh=waKSegAHecsfh4nDaQxnpBE6y+q+EKerHBw586RsRm4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=hfWJ9NxFutIUWwqd6/sfGkjlBcuh8SuzSQHhKtyuac7OzzKQ+hIybvHuKTuhpWYCL 5lqb+FQyWW0whEvtTTc0em8kat52A65LDeOtI8WYK9RIbdlysjvfrcWXelQpmcskqW g0GPwtN7H+w1r9B6JJx0tfV6K/b0coHJYU8OmT/8= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.2.149] ([80.146.124.149]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MrQIv-1lUdZ30gw3-00oZoO for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:01:02 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <1edaff09-793d-1d9d-dc69-122d165e4fba@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:00:59 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:S/hH/5AL0Y0LO965ebV/eXlfbGekQxE6VIyT9JgTdF7C3iwHUIB IhRBfcYZseOeI9gR5TrBDNPHXNc+YgYAeE8OEcOXtgksf2UAt92oaH0DmUPypF89DusEJ9v rkJkj/4BTOvJ5/sk2wS2TEn+MXDslWtqbd1CpXutnuMtQfEeJl3IMYzSWwT3nqg3xOx9JCW Ni5Ztey9uPQFH6m6Yfv+g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:8emZd4TiWLk=:IUYodB79e8B9ZlJrsPCA3T xaiFSM6gCr6/EZ1sDkWKyw4a3mfy0Mvvk7jUArzP8tDbw2PjkjPUKIrmZSAslI6H3zKn+YPnO 86CdAVTiUj8O1W/q+a4cmQwdRQyG+iQVA7C/uVBNSXR5bKxl4jrsJs9tYFN+PJM39Ep8MGkSW IYiKInellpIo5y1BHkMt0rhlTxCdHOxQTnn+qwVybH9BTrzkX5wI4eXAAVQRKViFWGwC4hfS6 UjkgBNlMYPTca80oHaPbPmls8v08gl9TPYmZ4Nc8KEaLfTSrpOB/zQTQCzFV+BriZtf2Zbxe9 fl/BuZO0m7Ta2xFzvm4BRAVhjS+WPznzgDb9nXqwq475a4/No8PSMNdlKMfrhklSCeywDRn1G we+OD/nuYdhFDTP79nANiAJRqKJDXlqsJBQ1gR1GgfWDOQuKNlpWpxs9LSHDetu07hF8ya8dZ Cxr2at+U6IS+Ob+LrDRp3pfzG5NWni6RbCG13R5qigZz4VwS1lFmg1IQYIX7puVTS0/6Xi0up fdfBCgYj/wWRuhA0YEzFZS2i16xJozlciMuoY5mI75oXUuJnIpMGA7sn6Hbntx0i37MAF8f4B 8Sx9rKe1lk8FD+xC41gjQkuNbL9ccI5sm7gzaKrHZVAE6/4IV3Y4hdYPTuOCPW3t2/38gP6EU hpgntIYaY0LSlmzyWR8Mke3WM3It2EM2Qj3B51J3h4AsqhGntdJI+rXPpvL5+8suNO97PQEra tiWIBfy8dH9IP7FQWUkV27waJNCaeCR24TzUAauXFPSeX5remHHp5mLEXP99sGioQGWjQAkRG /PRXaJ55yKbXsFuuwAdgmjo7HgxSuuh4AhMqrsYuXiFJ5Evuvid1SimRc+zu8LPNKKbCGJsPr fOdbRk8hK3EAYLYuTsNSLOLmUrwX/Lu8sB7o9ki9wHawR9yDFrVxwSkYaABzlNmvF/ERqKth1 4fwoIuJfsNNlsOdbVWYB+sAUQ5j/xwwDd7XEwTtOaev5Is97kTmmVFmxBXAd1wCo6exJiHNBl N/iFBim5SuqGP5R6gHVhQo8DsCMP2i46p3CqmbtIltToLWefW1+w9al5DGoTYkC9d5u6Gx8WS 8dz75jWKzrtyXGDq6TW8xFwRw9LkbDmFsImW+k2M6a0VZpoE2BH37LO7A== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's not be hostile to authors X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:01:10 -0000 Am 27.06.2021 um 08:26 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > On 27. Jun 2021, at 04:40, John R Levine wrote: >> >>> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter autom= atically? >> >> We really want people to stop using v2. It's obsolete and missing some= semantic features of v3. > > John, > > let me be blunt here. > > The attitude that it is OK to be hostile to document authors in order to= further some meaningless abstract goal is completely unacceptable and has= to stop. > > There are good reasons to continue submitting v2 or v2-with-v3 documents= . > > For people actually authoring in XML, the version control history of all= but the most recently started documents is in v2. A wholesale v3 convers= ion loses all that history. I think that's a stretch. AFAIU, the only things that actually need to be edited are list and table markup. But yes, revision history is important. > ... Best regards, Julian From nobody Sun Jun 27 02:41:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A589C3A22EA for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:41:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yVD8Xhxlgzr7 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CA143A22E9 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GCQj41HkNz2xH0; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:40:56 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <1edaff09-793d-1d9d-dc69-122d165e4fba@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:40:55 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 646479655.701008-6bcde5d34b1b58b4c9ebcedf16194fca Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> <1edaff09-793d-1d9d-dc69-122d165e4fba@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's not be hostile to authors X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:41:05 -0000 On 2021-06-27, at 11:00, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >> For people actually authoring in XML, the version control history of = all but the most recently started documents is in v2. A wholesale v3 = conversion loses all that history. >=20 > I think that's a stretch. AFAIU, the only things that actually need to > be edited are list and table markup. Well, I talked about a wholesale conversion. Manual upgrade is a complete non-starter, and it still pollutes the = revision history. > But yes, revision history is important. Indeed. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sun Jun 27 05:53:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD4A3A09C1 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 05:53:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28JAvMd-2emY for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 05:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 417FA3A09B0 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 05:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id b15so456922iow.4 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 05:53:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aoCktcgBfKPjVcQxHorfGKn2ZA18RL6z9VHcFybCrdk=; b=esIcxO51+ci0uAhEVWELuc0aVy1TPKWnWFK2HX0JqcY/aQysaj3VaHi5dfaBE+uLU6 O8kt1dsltzbBCnwsabWSlWu29oVGz242mE1h2KQwxwxXH6ARVzNJ2rwSURwr/PrzTl7I rmThUysriM4DxM4Gp1pTFQumUBks27to/q3ShtH0dCSmy4HasCeFeoEdvxfkNQ4B069Q 16OPgCt30QmRZKoUJjj87XjRKIWCJJ9nzhhp7xjGdfSdhXm/vhGwuLa+oc7o7KxtPMwH Zvh8+XFh5meaLJ4iItFgWR1Q65AUEt677pN2XTvvJOPghTH61xmY7JVUnannKTWY5M7x rvNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aoCktcgBfKPjVcQxHorfGKn2ZA18RL6z9VHcFybCrdk=; b=D4NhptgMezlMxVq6teC6sSmAfws4fYVBxURWVq5Uqe1xcozcBjn647cM0b2qcadbVe MWc9cfNMa7LvnoIcaO4Q5CYjCDdKYwroFdVhaqGbTNhL0w/QB8qtnHQUC0xSf9dy28/X a16F2OsZ906+ukwqx+RGxaQr7g+ThrUDPUQAv4AsDVZZw07OpScdG3f1gBcMC1Olmt+6 +BYJv20OlxtawxdbRxC6AZJwUaUJeAyrUq1a3fBocbMcqlacI7lWEbxJCrsOCV3ObVHk +3wYx69PaiG/MWm7TIri57+mAerZ6ypAVpfB2Jh1q6mRVXX8aJyMC8NczTAvQxj+v0Lj 0eaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531uxbnQS55Mi2VBFLnRajOR3K58c9ZW6ICLQI8IskDL4sRi7c/4 0LQcaBhlLXBGhqXXH9MEJ8Bd1HPJ56cpldx7rld4Argo X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz7o/fkr/1jK55Dla+iuspGLAK5qXH7SG7khxt33kXVqjzwEOD/Weiu7V7mttQLZonNjEXgqrb6A3Q3QyfRCn8= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:6b13:: with SMTP id g19mr14359489ioc.180.1624798409185; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 05:53:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:53:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: John R Levine , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000002e09005c5bedcbc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's not be hostile to authors X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:53:37 -0000 --00000000000002e09005c5bedcbc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just speaking as a document author, I've written my share of drafts over the many years, in just about every format that the IETF has supported - plain text, nroff, generated nroff (nroffedit), various versions of the Word template, various versions of XML, generated XML via KramDown. and others that I've probably forgotten. My goal as an author is to write drafts to get my ideas expressed without having to worry about the syntax for a pseudo-programming language as well. Currently, I've found that KramDown comes closest to meeting that need, and I'm very happy to let others (thanks, Carsten!) keep up with the current state of XML. But what would be really cool would be something similar to what we had with nroffedit - you just type what needs to be written, and the tool makes it look nice in real time. and then generates what's needed to be submitted to the process in the syntax of the day. I get that the transition to v3 is important for the process, and makes things better behind the curtain. But I'm sure the great majority of drafts authors really don't really care, just want to get their ideas expressed as easily as possible, and are happy to leave the programming details behind the curtain where they belong. Cheers, Andy On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 2:26 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 27. Jun 2021, at 04:40, John R Levine wrote: > > > >> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter > automatically? > > > > We really want people to stop using v2. It's obsolete and missing some > semantic features of v3. > > John, > > let me be blunt here. > > The attitude that it is OK to be hostile to document authors in order to > further some meaningless abstract goal is completely unacceptable and has > to stop. > > There are good reasons to continue submitting v2 or v2-with-v3 documents. > > For people actually authoring in XML, the version control history of all > but the most recently started documents is in v2. A wholesale v3 > conversion loses all that history. > > For people using a tool to generate the XML, it is unacceptable to requir= e > their tools to generate exactly the v3 of the day, in particular as xml2r= fc > has a perfect v3 generator inside, which by the nature of the process is > more likely to stay in sync with the ongoing fixes to v3. > > And, in case I haven't been clear enough, the needs (and even more so the > wants!) of the RPC are entirely secondary to those of the authors here, a= s > 98 % of the work on a document happens before the RPC gets it, and the > resources feeding that work are non-renewable. > > (And yes, the abstract goal of furthering the v3 transition is not > entirely meaningless in the long run, but we are *way* off from that goal > being a realistic short-term objective. And the feature of xml2rfc to be > more permissive in its converter input than the v3 publishing format must > *never* go away, at least as long as we consider the time and quality of > work of our authors and tool makers to be a precious resource.) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.or= g > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > --00000000000002e09005c5bedcbc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just speaking as a document author, I've written my sh= are=C2=A0of drafts over the many years, in just=C2=A0about=C2=A0every forma= t that the IETF has supported=C2=A0- plain text, nroff, generated nroff (nr= offedit), various versions of the Word template, various versions of XML, g= enerated XML via KramDown. and=C2=A0others that I've probably forgotten= .

My goal as an author is to write drafts to get my idea= s expressed without having to worry about the syntax for a pseudo-programmi= ng language as well.=C2=A0

Currently, I've fou= nd that KramDown comes closest to meeting that need,=C2=A0and I'm very = happy to let others (thanks, Carsten!) keep up with the current state of XM= L. But what would be really cool would be something similar to what we had = with nroffedit - you just type what needs to be written, and the tool makes= it look nice in real time. and then generates what's needed to be subm= itted to the process in the syntax of the day.

I g= et that the transition to v3 is important for the process, and makes things= better behind the curtain. But I'm sure the great majority of drafts a= uthors really don't really care, just want to get their ideas expressed= as easily as possible, and are happy to leave the programming details behi= nd the curtain where they belong.

Cheers,
Andy


On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 2:26 AM Carsten Bormann = <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 27. Jun 2021, at 04:40, = John R Levine <john= l@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter a= utomatically?
>
> We really want people to stop using v2.=C2=A0 It's obsolete and mi= ssing some semantic features of v3.

John,

let me be blunt here.

The attitude that it is OK to be hostile to document authors in order to fu= rther some meaningless abstract goal is completely unacceptable and has to = stop.

There are good reasons to continue submitting v2 or v2-with-v3 documents.
For people actually authoring in XML, the version control history of all bu= t the most recently started documents is in v2.=C2=A0 A wholesale v3 conver= sion loses all that history.

For people using a tool to generate the XML, it is unacceptable to require = their tools to generate exactly the v3 of the day, in particular as xml2rfc= has a perfect v3 generator inside, which by the nature of the process is m= ore likely to stay in sync with the ongoing fixes to v3.

And, in case I haven't been clear enough, the needs (and even more so t= he wants!) of the RPC are entirely secondary to those of the authors here, = as 98 % of the work on a document happens before the RPC gets it, and the r= esources feeding that work are non-renewable.

(And yes, the abstract goal of furthering the v3 transition is not entirely= meaningless in the long run, but we are *way* off from that goal being a r= ealistic short-term objective.=C2=A0 And the feature of xml2rfc to be more = permissive in its converter input than the v3 publishing format must *never= * go away, at least as long as we consider the time and quality of work of = our authors and tool makers to be a precious resource.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
--00000000000002e09005c5bedcbc-- From nobody Sun Jun 27 09:03:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636783A081C for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:03:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hChHrSTQssQj for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1749E3A0817 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GCbB16MkPz2xGZ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 18:03:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CDF62741-2A3C-42B5-9FA3-97B7705E6AC9" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 646502585.314468-660df66d2a006410dffd33dd4e53bf5b Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 18:03:05 +0200 Message-Id: References: <6F23C58A-19C0-4CEC-8233-018858769D5B@signwriting.org> To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: [rfc-i] Is v3 ready? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 16:03:15 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CDF62741-2A3C-42B5-9FA3-97B7705E6AC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Maybe we should get rid of web interfaces that no longer work right? (Or at least add warning messages.) (There is a deeper request here: Do run monitoring on these web = interfaces. I know that creating meaningful monitoring is a significant project on = its own, but it would have uncovered this.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: Steve Slevinski > Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Is v3 ready? > Date: 2021-06-27 at 17:29:25 CEST > To: Julian Reschke > Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > Message-Id: <6F23C58A-19C0-4CEC-8233-018858769D5B@signwriting.org> >=20 > My apologies. >=20 > On page https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/experimental.html = I didn=E2=80=99t see = the convert v2 to v3 option in the top section. >=20 > I used the old prototype at the bottom of the page. >=20 > -Steve >=20 >=20 >> On Jun 27, 2021, at 10:16 AM, Julian Reschke > wrote: >>=20 >> Am 27.06.2021 um 17:09 schrieb Steve Slevinski: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Jun 27, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Julian Reschke > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Am 27.06.2021 um 16:24 schrieb Steve Slevinski: >>>>>=20 >>>>> The conversion from v2 to v3 still breaks tables by adding = . >>>>> Easy find and replace. >>>>=20 >>>> If that's reproducable: open a ticket at >>>> >. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I tried the conversion today. >>> I don=E2=80=99t have permission to open a ticket. >>>=20 >>> Converting this text will reproduce the error. >>>=20 >>> >>> Description >>> FSW Characters >>> SWU Characters >>>=20 >>> Sequence Marker >>> A >>> U+1D800 >>>=20 >>> Signbox Markers >>> B, L, M, R >>> U+1D801 to U+1D804 >>>=20 >>> Numbers >>> 250 to 749 >>> U+1D80C to U+1D9FF >>>=20 >>> Symbols >>> S10000 to S38b07 >>> U+40001 to U+4F428 >>>=20 >>> >>=20 >> Converts to: >>=20 >> >> >> Description >> FSW Characters >> SWU Characters >> >> >> >> >> Sequence Marker >> A >> U+1D800 >> >> >> Signbox Markers >> B, L, M, R >> U+1D801 to U+1D804 >> >> >> Numbers >> 250 to 749 >> U+1D80C to U+1D9FF >> >> >> Symbols >> S10000 to S38b07 >> U+40001 to U+4F428 >> >> >> >>=20 >> over here... >>=20 >> Best regards, Julian >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rfc-interest mailing list > rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org > https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest --Apple-Mail=_CDF62741-2A3C-42B5-9FA3-97B7705E6AC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Maybe= we should get rid of web interfaces that no longer work right?
(Or at least add warning messages.)

(There is a deeper = request here: Do run monitoring on these web interfaces.
I know that creating meaningful monitoring is a significant = project on its own, but it would have uncovered this.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3= =9Fe, Carsten


Begin = forwarded message:

From: = Steve Slevinski <slevinski@signwriting.org>
Subject: = Re: [rfc-i] Is v3 = ready?
Date: = 2021-06-27 at 17:29:25 CEST
To: = Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
Message-Id: = <6F23C58A-19C0-4CEC-8233-018858769D5B@signwriting.org>

My apologies.

On = page https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/experimental.html I = didn=E2=80=99t see the convert v2 to v3 option in the top = section.

I = used the old prototype at the bottom of the page.
-Steve


On Jun 27, 2021, at 10:16 AM, Julian Reschke = <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:

Am = 27.06.2021 um 17:09 schrieb Steve Slevinski:


On Jun 27, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Julian Reschke = <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:

Am 27.06.2021 um 16:24 schrieb Steve Slevinski:

The = conversion from v2 to v3 still breaks tables by adding = <td></tr>.
Easy find and replace.

If that's reproducable: open a = ticket at
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/xml2rfc>.


I tried the conversion today.
I don=E2=80=99t have permission to open a ticket.

Converting this text will reproduce the = error.

=           <texttable = align=3D'left' style=3D'all' anchor=3D'table_other_codes'>
=             &l= t;ttcol>Description</ttcol>
=             &l= t;ttcol>FSW Characters</ttcol>
=             &l= t;ttcol>SWU Characters</ttcol>

=             &l= t;c>Sequence Marker</c>
=             &l= t;c>A</c>
=             &l= t;c>U+1D800</c>

=             &l= t;c>Signbox Markers</c>
=             &l= t;c>B, L, M, R</c>
=             &l= t;c>U+1D801 to U+1D804</c>

=             &l= t;c>Numbers</c>
=             &l= t;c>250 to 749</c>
=             &l= t;c>U+1D80C to U+1D9FF</c>

=             &l= t;c>Symbols</c>
=             &l= t;c>S10000 to S38b07</c>
=             &l= t;c>U+40001 to U+4F428</c>

=           </texttable= >

Converts to:

=        <thead>
=          <tr>
=            <th&g= t;Description</th>
=            <th&g= t;FSW Characters</th>
=            <th&g= t;SWU Characters</th>
=          </tr>
       </thead>
       <tbody>
=          <tr>
=            <td&g= t;Sequence Marker</td>
=            <td&g= t;A</td>
=            <td&g= t;U+1D800</td>
=          </tr>
=          <tr>
=            <td&g= t;Signbox Markers</td>
=            <td&g= t;B, L, M, R</td>
=            <td&g= t;U+1D801 to U+1D804</td>
=          </tr>
=          <tr>
=            <td&g= t;Numbers</td>
=            <td&g= t;250 to 749</td>
=            <td&g= t;U+1D80C to U+1D9FF</td>
=          </tr>
=          <tr>
=            <td&g= t;Symbols</td>
=            <td&g= t;S10000 to S38b07</td>
=            <td&g= t;U+40001 to U+4F428</td>
=          </tr>
       </tbody>
     </table>
over here...

Best regards, = Julian


_______________________________________________
rfc-interest mailing list
rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest

= --Apple-Mail=_CDF62741-2A3C-42B5-9FA3-97B7705E6AC9-- From nobody Sun Jun 27 12:48:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6721C3A163C for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:48:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=5CjP832p; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=k/CusyfW Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fO5CkufJYR59 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAA563A163B for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 71320 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2021 19:48:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=11694.60d8d614.k2106; bh=cQ936SCoWpsTnld8QINFuA9myh5Ao2vwfF54FRhxsFU=; b=5CjP832piTgPaPR0RWTzC/9vsIp8+THASYX6y21BDjniQZuGHCQrTEy0H2UCPAHP4BE8q6zOp6n+S/IIZN/87IItLnPMgCjr/SUC65Wl5aEjoBdK53DQc9a/3yu1wZEv+6zl3xKqQ+HvTQZXcl6dj8Nb6WUCRKlTbAdeJkzUm3P/vMac3IcmN6EuaW35m+9oJizeZnt+NAPlL8CoWXWYCyhgFR3M6DlMOvDPOPn5Tw+z+pXw78CtFWpygvjI8+BGd1/qzUQBokkySi2x8+y4n13VbBwg5Idt+0rjSJuy5Sgycd/g0p0/iHr1Md02N1S9PhYaW8IwGV0olZkNoFSZow== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=11694.60d8d614.k2106; bh=cQ936SCoWpsTnld8QINFuA9myh5Ao2vwfF54FRhxsFU=; b=k/CusyfWB3mgTCe0lCsyZ4J1oLyNpzS31R6+bRLVGgj8CmUVGHtpiWMKHJNO5o88UtqmBHPf8Veq9DR3CUrC1DcD07o5M3lmrlQBzpI6Oud6mgJfIQaU/DiK5E2Z14F+1cYH7tSQzlzoE5c3y4yELsipJymCEAWV1AhAK44x2DVezp31bgUMu9ecb6wTQEY+8Mv6DrXxG7P7LNcqfRZRHg1AZKDxUpqaKgR7JLMYa3joRU9e3227no32J93Zkr2mvXz54yAxHjU6YGLBQ1YVHWahTLiz9bEPvPtZaaUfJjeytedqyL/cwcLC0Epe0idASKebqUz4I6fKPacAMHaenw== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 27 Jun 2021 19:48:36 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id C7C0918E6A36; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 15:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.qy (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51E618E6A13; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 15:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: 27 Jun 2021 15:48:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Andrew G. Malis" Cc: "tools-discuss" X-X-Sender: johnl@ary.qy In-Reply-To: References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's have better tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 19:48:45 -0000 On Sun, 27 Jun 2021, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > But what would be really cool would be something similar to > what we had with nroffedit - you just type what needs to be written, and > the tool makes it look nice in real time. and then generates what's needed > to be submitted to the process in the syntax of the day. You and me both. There's a variety of ways we might do that. There are commercial XML editors like that, you edit a roughly formatted version of the document and it writes out the XML. They're unlikely to be useful to us for several reasons. One is that our XML turns out to be quite unlike everyone else's XML so people who've tried the editors say they don't work well with our grammar. Also, they're expensive, and I doubt many ietfers would want to install and learn the quirks of yet another editor. Another possibility is some MS Word stylesheets and macros and a converter between docx and xml2rfc. A lot of people like Word, and I think it would not be too hard to come up with a set of styles that could be reliably converted to xml2rfc. I realize a lot of people don't like Word, but at least it's not a new program to learn. There are a lot of markdown editors, some of which are browser apps, some of which are separate programs. I haven't looked to see if any of them might be suitable to adapt. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Sun Jun 27 13:09:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BEED3A16FE for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:09:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.237 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.237 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gFHXD7E1Wh0S for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA2A43A16FC for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:08:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1624824535; bh=q1FzNOxvyQY64nrgY87uRA0oLQJ3mRPkSwqPBUzaBVU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=NXvndrOa4RbNgey3g+O6+bfBgDuhbOLlnvW6AIr5MuTj27sgez3+vkcPFRSBp9MoR jU11UtFLZHJrCXPTUjYzdvJJLdr4v5N4EsqMTvR9aK8LnnwVYvWm9P7frAIcNMN6Pw +kD5w+yZn4+onqmFpxoWAEoNhx9x0aNnuCZikhJo= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.2.149] ([80.146.124.149]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MK3W0-1lfNBB1KGc-00LYYx for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 22:08:55 +0200 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <98f8f742-e395-6c86-44ca-1a862b268390@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 22:08:54 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:T9CI/TtRyihFDMF8477bfd/WcgAx55lKzvsZSD2wyyHDOifGHGi MEDik+NuEbgHTlsNOxxTTKV/vf7ehs7qTEyMfMl4l2j7io0/gDpNzigoxh2StsFsix53KgE wYqFVuw3eIcWMbWEdIGoFi6f64g2d6tlkBbOKX3lp7kcQ+Nl2d2I4aLGuo7tQ4392fP1cXA gI4Z6CTkxSf5As4DIflmg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:IhRz5eEWRbo=:idXvo8mBS0vya8BoAuID86 zWSjsLmoK7hjVxQc9aU83an7wD/hrlfnnk+G/lbhsi9DiY3DP1au51QL/5OGxhguT0MGvQfyP DJlSx5as1gnJ5v5bTz1aWl8wPOCS1XwmrCqT5LJiGcWpHvucttFmsMYncUj8kGRS4VQJFaKfA 1ap3ZxtPqcxnKWIZgTcSnA6V9CwGnjTnGwOiBy8lhm0mOhhvV4WHgf39mTsf/ArQ57B+2Hea+ OrMp9dUcteBBbxkd12K6hfnlEPMHQXxYk3w5ap+QzeiXeWlmMNwERCqnqej2ixtEPa4H63Xe0 Tz5ry+4WJW4lQwfd8x2eI1Z+S1TGBCzmS5R+EeBnJHnZO3JbyrMsUGc102iZR54/f7PRHpRX2 3UR1YVJ9ccUOckOvobUahM0Dpc0zlI+38Ks7h/Q+r+WIVD2mYjgPujiK92yZK4p0336TVc1wS DeTtvlTbIaHXLkNbsk7FVj4FIW/Vs5KKZbavpIjno+0S4QdKk3ra9bbxCFNSUirN0lGtU3EYx CFVNI6uqFVBDv7H6e6RBJ0K95XQRheq6CXUrj1PyyRtwgrLWE0zuRi8YnDz1WYopm3FFV8+cA NDUfCs/ymPumDUKGXrt0C2/2FpiU6xKY2ckfaUi254rv7kHfTpuLvAMX9Xl0ti5/Wx/2+8nxB k19EPt0Foo+nYYY8zLi3759CDjt2n6Y3qbRXdiufLLhApVcYwGDEsNiLYrCbEEqWwCuTEW1ZC bB7AevBP7AOC6lLqs6mBpEIUUI27cQv1+MIjnXDtLU5t+Fvm8jyvuPDP6sdEPLz0m7OUToe4l 8QNoJxCWbgqPoZB7HqR58/CYd572MwByU/d6fBk0w22LGHRkOEd2O3kjdJq4kRWNnR8hHmRMO z6oATQg6CUN9il5Due8+hGKkFms2i2fesHeWIUV3BNJfErcXM4uZlkzeS5KZ32jndQdAnKero 0ZRSeQFhUA2xWFZtKBP6HbmzKjggu0h+I9SPlLeGgv/5bO9/PhD4ssbkV6AvtmTdy34LXMKiu C6VwdpoSzT2IHuPLXbS2bODofjIrlT6EyE/JYkUu3vV1UXfsSpPSP6Q1wcG5l6BqAbeP7/ZBN 7kwr/rajLRgsQz+o+cItpDsd+nrRNK7Xqh+rlWCUKMG0G/8KyOeJ0ynew== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's have better tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 20:09:03 -0000 Am 27.06.2021 um 21:48 schrieb John R Levine: > On Sun, 27 Jun 2021, Andrew G. Malis wrote: >> But what would be really cool would be something similar to >> what we had with nroffedit - you just type what needs to be written, an= d >> the tool makes it look nice in real time. and then generates what's >> needed >> to be submitted to the process in the syntax of the day. > > You and me both.=C2=A0 There's a variety of ways we might do that. > > There are commercial XML editors like that, you edit a roughly formatted > version of the document and it writes out the XML.=C2=A0 They're unlikel= y to > be useful to us for several reasons.=C2=A0 One is that our XML turns out= to > be quite unlike everyone else's XML so people who've tried the editors > say they don't work well with our grammar.=C2=A0 Also, they're expensive= , and > I doubt many ietfers would want to install and learn the quirks of yet > another editor. > > Another possibility is some MS Word stylesheets and macros and a > converter between docx and xml2rfc.=C2=A0 A lot of people like Word, and= I > think it would not be too hard to come up with a set of styles that > could be reliably converted to xml2rfc.=C2=A0 I realize a lot of people = don't > like Word, but at least it's not a new program to learn. > > There are a lot of markdown editors, some of which are browser apps, > some of which are separate programs. I haven't looked to see if any of > them might be suitable to adapt. > ... Or you could run a text-editor and web browser side-by-side and use rfc2629.xslt's "live HTML refresh" feature (see ). Best regards, Julian From nobody Sun Jun 27 13:15:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D8E3A1756 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:15:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 170orggpmo7h for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 922603A1755 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GChnL5TmDz2xJ2; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 22:15:34 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <98f8f742-e395-6c86-44ca-1a862b268390@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 22:15:34 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> <98f8f742-e395-6c86-44ca-1a862b268390@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's have better tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 20:15:44 -0000 On 27. Jun 2021, at 22:08, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > Or you could run a text-editor and web browser side-by-side and use > rfc2629.xslt's "live HTML refresh" feature (see > = ). Doing something like this server-based (server runs on your laptop) is a = SMOP (small matter of programming), and I=E2=80=99m already using that = for other kinds of markdown. Coming to an I-D/RFC markdown processor of your choice whenever next I = have half a day to burn. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sun Jun 27 14:01:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DD33A1A56 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:01:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MtC2JKWx-P52 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x132.google.com (mail-il1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAF323A1A4F for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x132.google.com with SMTP id a7so3318896ilk.10 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:01:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=79VGPt3UWqg3f4cLU/hFUxBICILux7KuUd0JOFO/Hcs=; b=pA/RIx2LEHQ/k84/ei0xrSmrC5NAhUGNyHEa2XFu2Nx9SXChsT+2xtXrxU+j+2RXaa jb3iiYhwXFdAjm/Tw6RFC3GB6kXDi/r8FDGNngmfhd0rIYIhcPGZ2BdCB9ex6c3WvLWV xE0AYTUJa0/YZKaOkFgvhXvEe95sPPfMU3h/scFQrjOaC85y5v4lnZT/4Bw5HuY1RgUf vA6XLMOAhNDcDnPRHyx+jVMI5HAjOvUHzlFeRmpUwUEIFVYbpQ+XVhcxmyI2gKfl5yiN RvDtgWT39mtFPlTttQnEmmS73F/VJGOfhvgp8ATGItrah7KmXtJtGtRqp1SQlpJA786X AUnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=79VGPt3UWqg3f4cLU/hFUxBICILux7KuUd0JOFO/Hcs=; b=iEBUJlhjT+nhl/owmm53cJWE1sACCWldIdmmTdGUm70c3HqvCLOI6BgGvdvg5O71f3 x0cSKkmFKP9sMC71+fRxowfU5vBQ09MiICc+iEwmKXWI1hbsICyisrYzgQJoneRfOyxm lhAxByEHtnkUTI4Y6fkhRTTyGXqxNcfZxQdhtNW4Cnq1LFAQ8WPWWoAakT/GQQvByAsQ 0Z8wTw5iQWgT1HyWZQNycFIETvcQDMxVJbaZI4bzqkkpnaJUbiyHlYguXGXgbEJE+Xua 0nNqSvnv+8P/x/5HVeFFkGIsPa78olAyqeZ1EMj2v6ZEi8FxyuwUUalNKe2Rml8eHSGl 3r8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ddMyTgHyhVlskPxN6ITYOb49yahL6udjw4ZucHGp3jc1mcSUM dmIvkfGpxMnTeWZSz/j46zSPNRLWmc0OT3FHCis= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxK4gKBs6N0dQkyrdc2mTDgb1lbhTftQ7PZk73jkk0LXRMTvP9A0MGyB3LcgaiRyXqc3gJe0mDrqS7qo4+oeUc= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c84f:: with SMTP id b15mr5390662ilq.27.1624827659846; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:00:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> <98f8f742-e395-6c86-44ca-1a862b268390@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:00:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007c8b5005c5c5ab2c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's have better tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 21:01:09 -0000 --0000000000007c8b5005c5c5ab2c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten, Cool, thanks! Cheers, Andy On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:15 PM Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 27. Jun 2021, at 22:08, Julian Reschke wrote: > > > > Or you could run a text-editor and web browser side-by-side and use > > rfc2629.xslt's "live HTML refresh" feature (see > > < > https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2629xslt/rfc2629xslt.html#html.live.= refresh > >). > > Doing something like this server-based (server runs on your laptop) is a > SMOP (small matter of programming), and I=E2=80=99m already using that fo= r other > kinds of markdown. > Coming to an I-D/RFC markdown processor of your choice whenever next I > have half a day to burn. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.or= g > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > --0000000000007c8b5005c5c5ab2c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Carsten,

Cool, thanks!

Cheers,
Andy


On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at= 4:15 PM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On= 27. Jun 2021, at 22:08, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Or you could run a text-editor and web browser side-by-side and use > rfc2629.xslt's "live HTML refresh" feature (see
> <https://gre= enbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2629xslt/rfc2629xslt.html#html.live.refresh&g= t;).

Doing something like this server-based (server runs on your laptop) is a SM= OP (small matter of programming), and I=E2=80=99m already using that for ot= her kinds of markdown.
Coming to an I-D/RFC markdown processor of your choice whenever next I have= half a day to burn.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
* Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
* Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
* Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
--0000000000007c8b5005c5c5ab2c-- From nobody Sun Jun 27 14:22:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF4093A1B5D for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:22:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7uS8V12AWAiT for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46D853A1B40 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2030389BB for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:24:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id PNAhnaYu0prZ for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE27E389B9 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D54ED997 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:22:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> <98f8f742-e395-6c86-44ca-1a862b268390@gmx.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's have better tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 21:22:50 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable https://codimd.ietf.org/mcr-kramdown-test This is 90% of the way there. It doesn't process the {{Stuff}}. It also doesn't seem to reflow text quite as I would expect it to. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmDY7BkACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWCLQf/fYQlW5uGma65eK/X9xxJOFIBE+r6FyOUHTGwjgpVa1O86ADTNT1YyBf1 YUx+gr2G9gPXj9iTun/u55wRE9dyCm4UaN7NS+Rt7vOyMLvQnsG+77cnXn88Hk91 vM2aQscB6uRt9+NqNt87LPJEHQJ4NAIFF9pD6C+0LG1QYMPdsHcNx+pLNPJxVuos /7W+XpEq/gg6igcvatFd3egLO1J1N0ykcQ2hu32nNB3cuEQvwaDNz6yJyO8nEBFJ backMPc+rl1amDA6xdwoIq5nQ6UMGkJn7ru9joc7Mkvd3a0JTbgFQ3Y6fL+Dj/m8 HvHmf969N+95+tB5xtoe7qBjR94NaA== =1jPB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Jun 27 14:36:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71EF3A1BC4 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:36:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZvtT29SFh1CY; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 655B93A1BC1; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Jay Daley In-Reply-To: <693a2cdc-123a-8bf5-759d-14cc94088cf0@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 09:36:09 +1200 Cc: John R Levine , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <693a2cdc-123a-8bf5-759d-14cc94088cf0@gmail.com> To: Brian E Carpenter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 21:36:18 -0000 > On 27/06/2021, at 5:09 PM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > On 27-Jun-21 14:40, John R Levine wrote: >>>> Among the many things on the to-do list is to redo the I-D = submission page >>>> to make it clearer that you only need to submit one version of a = draft, >>>> and that we'd appreciate the XML version if you have one. >>>=20 >>> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter = automatically? >>=20 >> We really want people to stop using v2. It's obsolete and missing = some=20 >> semantic features of v3. >=20 > I fully agree. But isn't the submission page the primary place to put = the necessary nudges and warnings? >=20 > I'm sure you and Robert know this, but between the ancient state of = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/ and the confusing state of = https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/experimental.html, what is a poor user = supposed to do, if they don't want to install and maintain their own = copy of everything? Indeed, your analysis is quite correct and there is an RFP currently = open that includes a full replacement of those two pages = https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/Author_tools_web_services_re-implemen= tation_RFP.pdf Jay >=20 > Brian >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org > This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports. > * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: = datatracker-project@ietf.org > * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org > * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org > List info (including how to Unsubscribe): = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org From nobody Sun Jun 27 17:51:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372453A2303 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:51:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.452 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.452 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=iecc.com header.b=5QZIG0Vg; dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=taugh.com header.b=ZXF9rdez Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sc6-a0XFlZW9 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A3F93A2301 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25441 invoked by uid 100); 28 Jun 2021 00:51:39 -0000 Date: 28 Jun 2021 00:51:39 -0000 Message-ID: From: "John Levine" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=635a.60d91d1b.k2106; i=news@user.iecc.com; bh=yYgpEQP8nr9v9E+UcZKpEgRITlGiSQWQ2KNa9rmG6Iw=; b=5QZIG0Vgor27Oqx/FBBdu0JPZEWUtpm5qhqOsMAeQswrX1P51IstxcqQnKVSWLJK9DeeO/AOKLRJsu3HOBXi9K2uIEWsWm/3ZBWHYxtWIk+1C1lKGMajS8m+BBSDlxy8tLZ8SBlyhofj+12ogepTMQCBu+2y9hilsdqa+BNPkm3Vs/MgzxuwTndHL88+3PRaCsWg88RAbFijqX1gQgvBtwpFx+8YftjvEjZfZuWaB5/Y2RPKmC3zdP2O9a4UhcPXqOuk5IAPRcRxacrui0gxM22B/pPSchVul4i/9Rfge6XwIPEA6Rn5cTawXJKjaQ/p7vzfkQuJyjTccpfvXkv61Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=635a.60d91d1b.k2106; olt=news@user.iecc.com; bh=yYgpEQP8nr9v9E+UcZKpEgRITlGiSQWQ2KNa9rmG6Iw=; b=ZXF9rdezexje5wrQrMBkNugShHDtINK2GEj7SWg+wmerAx0cxC5E4Ii0RnpEQTYFd4zo2ZpeEXDvHfTkL+tLxkg1ygdsgibZeyXK6gZ0U4szgM94Nv5nXoWytqQP0Y8yqAVGfKdp66u+3d5jdTs/rzRN4RQytZ6U1GKEKwYk36/vPy8+56tJsvAIEWKpPSCQAB7inrrXzuzsaMqsrKQ0V/zVHeklocadedz/wu2XuepgmipG8Nue9WUV9yKenFQPVdD6TIqTWKv6eFpqBh9PiMB8xQX52Gk5/u/XdzdGT4uQ7UZJnY3WRXH3JIKpd2OOD3lCBd1wiui+X98mChT1fw== Organization: Taughannock Networks References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <98f8f742-e395-6c86-44ca-1a862b268390@gmx.de> <21692.1624828953@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <98f8f742-e395-6c86-44ca-1a862b268390@gmx.de> <21692.1624828953@localhost> Cleverness: some X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010) Originator: johnl@iecc.com (John Levine) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's have better tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 00:51:47 -0000 According to Michael Richardson : > >https://codimd.ietf.org/mcr-kramdown-test > >This is 90% of the way there. That last 10% is a killer. I think codimd is swell, but its version of markdown is not the same as Carsten or Miek's. Codimd is from a commercial provider called Hackmd. There is an open source fork but I would not want to maintain a mutant version of their giant blob of Javascript and I expect asking for custom mods would be expensive. Also, even if someone were to modify Codimd/Hackmd to handle one of our dialects, the rendering of -> Codimd -> html would not be the same as -> kramdown/mmark -> xml2rfc -> html. Some differences wouldn't matter, but some could easily be misleading and frustrating. I hope we can buy or build markdown editing tools but I really do not want to do something half baked and unmaintainable. We already have too much of that. R's, John -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Sun Jun 27 18:45:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241CA3A24F9 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 18:45:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rYtdCEM-Y5cd for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 557773A24FB for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GCr5W5S7Jz2xHX; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 03:45:03 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 03:45:03 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5F7EBB82-56F7-4C4D-B90D-77DFC1E197B2@tzi.org> References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <98f8f742-e395-6c86-44ca-1a862b268390@gmx.de> <21692.1624828953@localhost> To: John Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's have better tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 01:45:10 -0000 On 28. Jun 2021, at 02:51, John Levine wrote: >=20 >> https://codimd.ietf.org/mcr-kramdown-test >>=20 >> This is 90% of the way there. >=20 > That last 10% is a killer. +1. Note that CodiMD (which these days is called HedgeDoc, we are just = running an older version) is already quite useful for editing = rfc-markdown. As is the markdown support in GitHub. But to get those last 10 % of fidelity (=E2=80=9CWYSIWYG=E2=80=9D), we = need xml2rfc in the loop. For now, this means server-based approaches, as I alluded to. As soon as references etc. are in cache, my laptop translates the source = of RFC 8949 (approximately 80 pages (*)) to HTML in about 2.6 s (0.8 s = kramdown-rfc + 1.8 s xml2rfc). Adding a few 100 ms for browser processing, this means that the latency = from an editor save to a redisplay could be =E2=89=88 3 s. Maybe not good enough for editing NFSv4.1, but for everything else, this = should be quite usable. (And I have a few ideas how to speed this up by a factor of three, but = crawling comes before walking.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) Yeah, I know. We don=E2=80=99t get page numbers any more, except in = the PDF, and that is slightly more dense, at 66 pages here. Hence = =E2=80=9Capproximately=E2=80=9D. But most people will have a feel for = the size of their I-Ds in plaintext pages, so I=E2=80=99m using the 80 = pages the I-D was. From nobody Mon Jun 28 11:39:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B093A156F for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:39:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A49Wi97AE4KI for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD09D3A156D for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id w19so5780792lfk.5 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:39:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kANL910ip0L/Kfg+FoWBCLpEfaD2tAL8LZBVMRo4hV8=; b=Wg72lr8Kr9CLyh0jVtlEjDXp1oFJz81VMFw2pvS2MHrN52fZonIUljViiNEB5xGd/x yY88uwCNXdqcK5wteUy0QhCDHg7unvvw9vczOX/fvCxowBl6AJycByqBOxz6QnneSMQx LS1C7RSEIhjL7/ZLxJbwoEEhMLWRYesTETmcvpITbCTROdp7+qkH9RP0lSVUQLnpWNPl TWqkOo+1CgLUHAgaIpG+Q7cdKdfAPI1rB1AmANAbNm+oOVpDal7jemtjqzhjyOSWcRVf nr+rWXgDx7D8dHw5+tH5vM9E3bS2p7HZ20r5/dx86jbQwxeusob+IZcwnsv01iRX4r4/ ZRJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kANL910ip0L/Kfg+FoWBCLpEfaD2tAL8LZBVMRo4hV8=; b=H/gVe0i1t/9+lzNxQ6dYyEPQ5+1iYnQ4N379NmPhlAtAFRiB2P8x4CiUhFJbv9YyT+ eXXXlkPH/oWwhi4rJi2EBXZ2DHaSh0EdCJYUKWGhkC2H3n0gYoTfFxlXMKlUyCFMGPHy 8Qt34PpwMgETkLoXqayHLXn1g+7o6y0RWyQ8PP5+junz61pdYwf+fdwef+yDCadQy1yT XZe+6uV7sHCZkDdjQATxfsfZZELD4uATLjF5XAoK0xpuhzGmNeyZHNYp3BzO/6DfiSwN 88kPGJKOvdDwbQaDff98Aty10pTv/oXbGrCT7KrVziG5AibvI9NxaiN79IledFmhtSaZ lPWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530DagTNJfhNj23c5TSicnpEi25M+gC6cjDqbR+X0ss/c3RKi20X njfWYOj0VeP4/p/48DB5zy5enHLo+gwzp17twSsIpw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyzHdfy7wRDcs2kWjerhdGUwS7jc4sQtZkuhnErYAlptTsuUoFV4rLdsUc2y9lkmhVrTWzWSG1OFTzXsni4BRw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:ad2:: with SMTP id n18mr17273393lfu.543.1624905557501; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:39:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <55B80E3D-E22B-439F-9D5B-96185A1CE65B@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:38:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Andrew G. Malis" Cc: Carsten Bormann , John R Levine , tools-discuss Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Let's not be hostile to authors X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 18:39:24 -0000 On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 8:53 AM Andrew G. Malis wrote: > > Just speaking as a document author, I've written my share of drafts over = the many years, in just about every format that the IETF has supported - pl= ain text, nroff, generated nroff (nroffedit), various versions of the Word = template, various versions of XML, generated XML via KramDown. and others t= hat I've probably forgotten. > > My goal as an author is to write drafts to get my ideas expressed without= having to worry about the syntax for a pseudo-programming language as well= . > > Currently, I've found that KramDown comes closest to meeting that need, a= nd I'm very happy to let others (thanks, Carsten!) keep up with the current= state of XML. But what would be really cool would be something similar to = what we had with nroffedit - you just type what needs to be written, and th= e tool makes it look nice in real time. and then generates what's needed to= be submitted to the process in the syntax of the day. > > I get that the transition to v3 is important for the process, and makes t= hings better behind the curtain. But I'm sure the great majority of drafts = authors really don't really care, just want to get their ideas expressed as= easily as possible, and are happy to leave the programming details behind = the curtain where they belong. +lots. People have a workflow, and have become accustomed to it. As an example, I've been writing drafts for ~12 years (yes, I'm a newbie), and have probably 80+ drafts, with around 580 revisions[0]. I have a workflow that "just works" - I'm sure it isn't the best workflow, but it's been working just fine for me 580 times... Other than "because we said so" it's very unclear *why* I should change my existing workflow. Yes, what I've been doing will stop working, but there hasn't been a great message about how this helps the author - it certainly feels like "we are making a breaking change to the API, deal with it..." type signal, not a "here, look at the new API, it has the following features which makes *your* life better. Come try it!" W [0]: $find . -name '*.xml' -exec grep 'docName' {} \; | grep -v '