From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Wed Aug 2 12:57:13 2000 Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA23434 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15663; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.INTERNIC.NET by LISTS.INTERNIC.NET (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8593031 for URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:45:33 -0400 Received: from hqvwall01.citrix.com (hqcon01.citrix.com [206.103.132.2]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15630 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 10.9.1.111 by hqvwall01.citrix.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:38:40 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Received: by HQEXCHCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:38:51 -0400 Received: from delivery.cam.eu.citrix.com ([10.70.128.47]) by hwexch01.ctxuk.citrix.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id QA2K06WS; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:38:46 +0100 References: <20000714130513.V6129@bailey.dscga.com> Lines: 16 X-Author-Info: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Approved-By: Toby Speight Message-ID: <87bszbmxd1.fsf@delivery.cam.eu.citrix.com> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:38:50 +0100 Reply-To: Toby Speight From: Toby Speight Organization: Citrix Systems Subject: Re: draft-ietf-urn-ddds-00.txt To: URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET In-Reply-To: Michael Mealling's message of "Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:05:13 -0400" Apologies for the late response - am I still in time? The DDDS spec seems to me to be unclear on the atoms of the regular expression and its replacement. Is it composed of octets or of characters? What encoding(s) is(are) used? What's the range? AFAICS, it could be ASCII, UTF-8, ISO-8859.1, or almost anything. The availability of the "i" flag suggests that we're talking in characters; are there issues with locale-specific interpretations of /i? Are URIs to be converted to canonical form before matching? If so, one or references may be helpful to developers needing to do so. From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Wed Aug 2 13:29:54 2000 Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04441 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21918; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.INTERNIC.NET by LISTS.INTERNIC.NET (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8593147 for URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:15:48 -0400 Received: from bailey.dscga.com (bailey.dscga.com [198.78.9.11]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21887 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from michael@localhost) by bailey.dscga.com (8.9.1/) id MAA18420; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:59:21 -0400 (EDT) References: <20000714130513.V6129@bailey.dscga.com> <87bszbmxd1.fsf@delivery.cam.eu.citrix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.2i Approved-By: Michael Mealling Message-ID: <20000802125921.A18389@bailey.dscga.com> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:59:21 -0400 Reply-To: michaelm@netsol.com From: Michael Mealling Subject: Re: draft-ietf-urn-ddds-00.txt To: URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET In-Reply-To: <87bszbmxd1.fsf@delivery.cam.eu.citrix.com>; from streapadair@GMX.NET on Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 05:38:50PM +0100 On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 05:38:50PM +0100, Toby Speight wrote: > Apologies for the late response - am I still in time? You're fine. We're all still in Pittsburgh so other things are taking priority right now.... > The DDDS spec seems to me to be unclear on the atoms of the regular > expression and its replacement. Is it composed of octets or of > characters? What encoding(s) is(are) used? What's the range? > > AFAICS, it could be ASCII, UTF-8, ISO-8859.1, or almost anything. Very good point! I _think_ that is something that is defined by the Application _and_ the Database being used. I.e. in the URI application it's limited to the URI character set which is US-ASCII. In the case of ENUM its limited by the digits used in the e.164 number and by the Database being used which is DNS. I'll try and work up some language to reflect this and post it latter this week... > The availability of the "i" flag suggests that we're talking in > characters; are there issues with locale-specific interpretations of > /i? Ick! That does sounds rather problematic doesn't it. I could constrain the 'i' to be used only in the case where the Application Unique String constrains the atoms to something that 'case' makes sense for but that sounds like a hack to me.... Opinions? > Are URIs to be converted to canonical form before matching? If so, one > or references may be helpful to developers needing to do so. Yes. I'll add that bit to the URI document. Thanks! -MM -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Mealling | Vote Libertarian! | www.rwhois.net/michael Sr. Research Engineer | www.ga.lp.org/gwinnett | ICQ#: 14198821 Network Solutions | www.lp.org | michaelm@netsol.com From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Thu Aug 3 10:38:07 2000 Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA24749 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05233; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.INTERNIC.NET by LISTS.INTERNIC.NET (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8594582 for URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:26:40 -0400 Received: from printfile.ietf.marconi.com (printfile.ietf.marconi.com [147.73.128.4]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05213 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from thinkingcat.com (wireless-132-140.ietf.marconi.com [147.73.132.140]) by printfile.ietf.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08572 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:24:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Approved-By: Leslie Daigle Message-ID: <39897E70.E176A8A3@thinkingcat.com> Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:15:12 -0400 Reply-To: Leslie Daigle From: Leslie Daigle Organization: Thinking Cat Enterprises Subject: FYI: naptr rr document To: URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy, FYI, a revision of the OLD NAPTR rr document, which had been last called on its way to proposed standard, has been submitted to the I-D repository and will appear sometime next week: draft-ietf-urn-naptr-rr-04 It turned out that documents in another WG had a normative reference to the NAPTR document, and they needed us not to be in their way. So, after discussion with the relevant ADs, it seemed the best plan was to finish the editorial revs of the old document to get it out, and if we proceed forward with the DDDS stuff, we'll obsolete this document. Just so you know where this document is coming from/fits into the scheme of things under discussion. Leslie. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- "My body obeys Aristotelian laws of physics." -- ThinkingCat Leslie Daigle leslie@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Thu Aug 3 14:08:30 2000 Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16508 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13209; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.INTERNIC.NET by LISTS.INTERNIC.NET (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8594844 for URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:59:38 -0400 Approved-By: michael@BAILEY.DSCGA.COM Received: from mailman.cisco.com (mailman.cisco.com [171.68.225.9]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10875 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [147.73.133.93] (ssh.cisco.com [171.69.10.34]) by mailman.cisco.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01727; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: pfaltstr@127.0.0.1 References: <39897E70.E176A8A3@thinkingcat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:37:18 -0400 Reply-To: Patrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E4ltstr=F6m?= From: Patrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E4ltstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: FYI: naptr rr document To: URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET In-Reply-To: <39897E70.E176A8A3@thinkingcat.com> At 10.15 -0400 00-08-03, Leslie Daigle wrote: >So, after discussion with the relevant ADs, it seemed the best plan was >to finish the editorial revs of the old document to get it out, and >if we proceed forward with the DDDS stuff, we'll obsolete this >document. I am the AD she is talking about, so feel free contacting me. paf From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Mon Aug 7 16:43:08 2000 Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22738 for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18210; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.INTERNIC.NET by LISTS.INTERNIC.NET (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8599879 for URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:33:23 -0400 Received: from falla.videotron.net (falla.videotron.net [205.151.222.106]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18116 for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from thinkingcat.com ([207.253.221.189]) by falla.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0FYX00AOLUYH4E@falla.videotron.net> for urn-ietf@lists.internic.net; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:15:55 -0400 (EDT) MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Approved-By: Leslie Daigle Message-ID: <398F17AB.52FCA2A7@thinkingcat.com> Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:10:19 -0400 Reply-To: Leslie Daigle From: Leslie Daigle Organization: Thinking Cat Enterprises Subject: Gentle reminder [Fwd: Working Group -- work!] To: URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As promised, a gentle reminder to the WG -- by August 18, I'd like to hear if there are objections to taking on the following documents in the working group. They are presented as editorially-revised (not technically modified) versions of documents that we've already had in our scope. draft-ietf-urn-ddds-00.txt = the generic concept of a delegated hierarchy for resolution draft-ietf-urn-dns-ddds-database-00.txt = NAPTR -- i.e., how to use DNS to implement an instance of the above draft-ietf-urn-uri-res-ddds-00.txt = using the NAPTR-based "DDDS" for URN and URI resolution Thanks, Leslie. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Working Group -- work! Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:48:12 -0400 From: Leslie Daigle Reply-To: Leslie Daigle Organization: Thinking Cat Enterprises To: URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Howdy, So, here we are looking to wrap up our last documents and finish the working group. To refresh people's memory of where we're at, just over a year ago, we submitted Assignment Procedures for the URI Resolution using DNS (RFC2168) Resolution of Uniform Resource Identifiers using the Domain Name System The Naming Authority Pointer (NAPTR) DNS Resource Record to the IESG to be put forward as RFCs (as BCP, Standard, and Standard, respectively). Such being the nature of IESG overload, it took quite a few months before they got the necessary scrutiny, which produced some useful suggested improvements. Such being the nature of the universe at large, in the meantime other groups started using bits of it (e.g., NAPTR) in very appropriate, but non-UR{N|I} ways (e.g., ENUM). This lead to a thought that the latter 2 documents, which are meant to update and replace RFC2168, could be better expressed as 3 documents, separating out the generically-useful stuff from the UR{N|I}-specific stuff so that it will be clearer how other apps can use NAPTR in a consistent fashion. (The first will be republished as a revised document, should hit the I-D editor today). Ultimately, it should also make it clearer how URN resolution can move beyond DNS-based resolution, which is something we've maintained was interesting/useful/necessary in the medium-to-long term. Michael Mealling has put together some proposed documents, based on that split. They will soon hit the I-D archives (titles below), and the split is encapsulated as follows: draft-ietf-urn-ddds-00.txt = the generic concept of a delegated hierarchy for resolution draft-ietf-urn-dns-ddds-database-00.txt = NAPTR -- i.e., how to use DNS to implement an instance of the above draft-ietf-urn-uri-res-ddds-00.txt = using the NAPTR-based "DDDS" for URN and URI resolution Michael will be forwarding the documents to the list with his own remarks, but there is a larger question that I need answered as WG chair. Essentially, our goal as a WG is to fulfill our charter and wind up. The argument can be made that this goes beyond our mandate. The counterargument can be made that it will allow us to finish our work in a more complete fashion. I'd like to hear people's thoughts once they've read the documents in that light. Consequences: . if we take it on, I'll be pushing for a tight timeline, so that this WG does wind up . if we don't take it on, we can consider pushing forward with simple revisions to the existing drafts My personal opinion is that this is work in the right direction, that it should move forward anyway, that it's close enough to what we've done that it shouldn't be too much of a stretch, and that it will benefit from the input of the whole WG (i.e., why I'd rather this didn't get put to Michael to pursue as a personal effort). But, YMMV, and I'd like to hear either way. Over to you, Michael... Leslie. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- "My body obeys Aristotelian laws of physics." -- ThinkingCat Leslie Daigle leslie@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET Tue Aug 8 10:58:22 2000 Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29604 for ; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.internic.net (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27765; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:45:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.INTERNIC.NET by LISTS.INTERNIC.NET (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8601870 for URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:45:52 -0400 Approved-By: michael@BAILEY.DSCGA.COM Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by lists.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24249 for ; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04079; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Message-ID: <200008081419.KAA04079@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:19:34 -0400 Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-urn-naptr-rr-04.txt To: URN-IETF@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Uniform Resource Names Working Group of the IETF. Title : The Naming Authority Pointer (NAPTR) DNS Resource Record Author(s) : M. Mealling, R. Daniel Filename : draft-ietf-urn-naptr-rr-04.txt Pages : 27 Date : 07-Aug-00 This document describes a DNS resource record which specifies a regular expression based rewrite rule that, when applied to an existing string, will produce a new domain label or URI. Depending on the value of the flags field of the resource record, the resulting domain label or URI may be used in subsequent queries for NAPTR resource records (to delegate the name lookup) or as the output of the entire process for which this system is used (a resolution server for URI resolution, a service URI for ENUM style e.164 number to URI mapping, etc). This allows the DNS to be used to lookup services for a wide variety of resource names (inculding URIs) which are not in domain name syntax. Reasons for doing this range from URN Resource Discovery Systems to moving out-of-date services to new domains. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-urn-naptr-rr-04.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-urn-naptr-rr-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-urn-naptr-rr-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20000807142417.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-urn-naptr-rr-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-urn-naptr-rr-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20000807142417.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Wed Aug 16 15:20:22 2000 Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA02629 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12612; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.NETSOL.COM by LISTS.NETSOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8605233 for URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:50:50 -0400 Received: from bailey.dscga.com (bailey.dscga.com [198.78.9.11]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12608 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from michael@localhost) by bailey.dscga.com (8.9.1/) id OAA03000 for urn-ietf@lists.netsol.com; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.2i Approved-By: Michael Mealling Message-ID: <20000816143430.K2647@bailey.dscga.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:34:30 -0400 Reply-To: michaelm@netsol.com From: Michael Mealling Subject: list administrivia To: URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Hi all, (sorry for the duplication. I'm sending to both lists just in case) Just some administrivia: Due to the move of the "internic.net" domain-name to almost historical status, we are moving this list to the netsol.com domain. Everything works as before except that you send mail to urn-ietf@lists.netsol.com. If you have any questions please forward them to me directly. Thanks! -MM -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Mealling | Vote Libertarian! | www.rwhois.net/michael Sr. Research Engineer | www.ga.lp.org/gwinnett | ICQ#: 14198821 Network Solutions | www.lp.org | michaelm@netsol.com From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Tue Aug 22 19:18:27 2000 Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA17491 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:18:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17268; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.NETSOL.COM by LISTS.NETSOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8607872 for URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:38:06 -0400 Received: from lisboa.bn.pt (Lisboa.ibl.pt [193.136.149.1]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA17264 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29725 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2000 23:27:23 -0000 Received: from 195-23-122-54.nr.ip.pt (HELO Borbinha) (195.23.122.54) by lisboa.bn.pt with SMTP; 22 Aug 2000 23:27:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01C00C91.7E3A11E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Approved-By: =?Windows-1252?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= Message-ID: <004001c00c89$20a65b40$6500030a@bnp.pt> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:34:19 +0100 Reply-To: =?Windows-1252?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= Organization: Biblioteca Nacional Subject: new URN namespace To: URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C00C91.7E3A11E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear URN / URI list members, I'd appreciate very much your comments and advise for the purpose of this attachment. This is already a "draft of a draft", so please excuse me for some possible naive errors already on it... Many thanks in advance! Regards, José Borbinha PS: I did A LOT of plagiarism from RFC 2648 - "A URN Namespace for IETF Documents"..., for which I didn't get the permission from its author, Ryan Moats. I've been trying to contact him, but it looks that his email has problems. I've been receiving from his mail server: "550 ... User unknown ????" Any help with Ryan's contact will be also welcome... _______________________________________ José Luis Borbinha Biblioteca Nacional (National Library of Portugal) Direcção de Serviços de Inovação e Desenvolvimento (Direction of Services for Innovation and Development) Campo Grande, 83 - 1749-081 Lisboa - PORTUGAL Tel./Fax: (+351) 217 982 083 / 217 982 123 ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C00C91.7E3A11E0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="rfc_pt-bn.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rfc_pt-bn.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Network Working Group J. Borbinha Request for Comments: XXXX National Library of Portugal Category: Informational August 2000 A URN Namespace for Resources Deposited in the National Library of Portugal Status of this Memo This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. Copyright Notice Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2000). All Rights Reserved. Abstract This document proposes the "pt-bn" namespace. This namespace consists of the collections of resources deposited at the National Library of Portugal ("Biblioteca Nacional"), for immediate access or long-term preservation. In the moment of the editing of this document, the Portuguese Legal Deposit Law regulates the mandatory deposit in the National Library of Portugal of printed materials produced under the national jurisdiction, with the purpose to provide the public access the long-term preservation of the national scientific and cultural memory. With the definition of this URN namespace, the National Library intends to provide an on-line access to the bibliographic descriptions of the deposited resources, as also the on-line access to those with digital manifestations (when possible according their technical and legal requirements). This initiative is part of the development of a framework for the deposit of digital publications, to be promoted in a pro-active basis among the creators of these publications. Both the current URN framework and URN syntax support this namespace. 1. Introduction This document proposes the "pt-bn" namespace. This namespace consists of the collections of resources deposited at the National Library of Portugal ("Biblioteca Nacional"), for immediate access or long-term preservation. =20 The namespace specification is for a formal namespace. 2. Specification Template Namespace ID: "pt-bn" requested. Registration Information: Registration version number: 1 Registration date: 2000-08-XX Declared registrant of the namespace: Jose Borbinha Jose.Borbinha@bn.pt National Library of Portugal Campo Grande, 83 1749-081 Lisbon - PORTUGAL Declaration of structure: The identifier has the following ABNF [2] specification: NSS =3D ndli-nss / isbn-nss / issn-nss / other-nss ndli-nss =3D "NDLI:" 1*DIGIT "-" 2 DIGIT isbn-nss =3D "ISBN:" isbn issn-nss =3D "ISSN:" issn [ ":" datetime ] other-nss =3D auth ":" string [ ":" datetime ] isbn =3D 10 (DIGIT / "-") DIGIT "-" (DIGIT / "X") issn =3D 4 DIGIT "-" 3 DIGIT (DIGIT / "X") datetime =3D year [ month [ day [ "-" time ] ] ] auth =3D string year =3D 4 DIGIT month =3D 2 DIGIT day =3D 2 DIGIT time =3D 1*(2 DIGIT) string =3D 1*(DIGIT / ALPHA / "-") "ndli" refers to the already defined and used national legal deposit number for printed material, which includes an = integer number and the last two digits of the year. "issn" and = "isbn" are, respectively, the International Standard Book Number = and the International Standard Serial Number. "other-nss" = refers to sub-namespaces to be assigned by the National Library for special authorities or collections of special genres of resources (a controlled list of these authorities will be maintained and published by the National Library). Dates and time are important to distinguish different issues of the same ISSN publication, as also for other possible = genres cumulative in time. The format for the date is a profile of ISO 8601 (being accepted the formats YYYY, YYYYMM and = YYYYMMDD). The format for time is a simplification of that standard, = with the time expressed by any sequence of two digits, in the = form HH, HHMM, HHMMSS, HHMMSSdd, etc., where "dd" can be any = repeated sequence of decimal subdivisions of one second (useful for = tiny time cumulative resources). Relevant ancillary documentation: Relevant documentation is found in the references [1], [2] = and [3], detailed in the references' section of this document. Identifier uniqueness considerations: Each URN in the pn-bn namespace is unique, and never reused. National legal deposit numbers, ISSN numbers, and ISBN numbers have defined strict procedures for their = assignments, assuring that uniqueness. The same care will be put by the National Library of Portugal in the assignment of = sub-namespaces and numbers for these spaces. It must be referred, however, that by this schema a resource might have more than one URN, especially for those ones with national legal deposit numbers and also ISSN or ISSN = numbers. This is not a drawback, but an interesting feature of the = schema, made clear by the reference to the sub-namespace in the URN. Identifier persistence considerations: Persistence of the URNs of this namespace is independent of the mutability of the underlying resources. A URN once assigned will never be reassigned to a different resource; the assignment is persistent and immutable. The immutability of the resources is a requirement of the deposit policy (new versions of a document or publication will receive always a new URN, for instance). Process of identifier assignment: Resources deposited with already a ISSN, ISBN, or legal deposit number will have their URNs automatically generated according the rules of this schema. The assignment of new sub-namespaces will be a = responsibility of the National Library of Portugal, according with rules to be yet defined by the institution. Process of identifier resolution: The resolution of URNs from the pt-bn space will be possible = via HTTP, by a PURL service assured by the DNS "purl.pt". This service will be maintained by the National Library of = Portugal, and will be able to resolve both URNs and PURLs, according = the rule: PURL =3D "http://purl.pt/" ["urn:pt-bn:"] NSS The result of this resolution will be a URL for an = "homepage" of the resource. For tangible resources (books, for example), = the reference will be for the bibliographic record of that = resource existing in the National Bibliographic Catalogue maintained = by the PORBASE system. PORBASE is a collaborative structure, = open to libraries with bibliographic resources relevant for the Portuguese science or culture (http://www.bn.pt/porbase). = For digital resources, the reference will be also for its = bibliographic record, which in this case might include a link to the = contents. The National Library of Portugal will promote the = distribution of the PURL resolution service among relevant ISPs - Internet = Service Providers, namely by the assign of its DNS to several IPs, corresponding to servers in those ISPs with copies of the = service. Rules for Lexical Equivalence: The entire URN is case-insensitive. Conformance with URN Syntax: There are no additional characters reserved. Validation mechanism: None additional to resolution specified Scope: Global. 3. Examples The following are examples of URNs that a resolver for this namespace can resolve: urn:pt-bn:isbn:972-21-0513-2 urn:pt-bn:issn:0870-273X urn:pt-bn:issn:0870-5968:20000801 urn:pt-bn:dli:42789-91 The resolution service "purl.pt" will be able to recognize both the following URNs and PURLs for these identifiers: http://purl.pt/urn:pt-bn:isbn:972-21-0513-2 http://purl.pt/urn:pt-bn:issn:0870-273X http://purl.pt/urn:pt-bn:issn:0870-5968:20000801 http://purl.pt/urn:pt-bn:ndli:42789-91 http://purl.pt/isbn:972-21-0513-2 http://purl.pt/issn:0870-273X http://purl.pt/issn:0870-5968:20000801 http://purl.pt/ndli:42789-91 4. Security Considerations Because this namespace defines no additional reserved characters, it does not add any security considerations beyond those inherent from the existence of the reserved characters from [1]. Further, none of the reserved characters from [1] are used in the definition of the NSS. This means that resolvers for this namespace may be considered "secure" in the sense that any escaping of characters in the NSS MUST result in the resolver indicating that the URN has incorrect syntax. 5. Acknowledgments Thanks to Ryan Moats, for his example in [4], from which this = document got precious inspiration. 6. References Request For Comments (RFC) and Internet Draft documents are available from numerous mirror sites. [1] Moats, R., "URN Syntax", RFC 2141, May 1997. [2] Crocker, D. and P. Overell, "Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF", RFC 2234, November 1997. [3] Daigle, L., van Gulik, D., Ianella, R., Faltstrom, P., "URN Namespace Definition Mechanisms", RFC 2611, June 1999 [4] Moats, R., "A URN Namespace for IETF Documents", RFC2648, August 1999. 7. Author's Address Jose Borbinha National Library of Portugal Campo Grande, 83 1749-081 Lisbon PORTUGAL EMail: Jose.Borbinha@bn.pt 8. Full Copyright Statement Copyright (C) The Internet Society (1999). All Rights Reserved. This document and translations of it may be copied and furnished to others, and derivative works that comment on or otherwise explain it or assist in its implementation may be prepared, copied, published and distributed, in whole or in part, without restriction of any kind, provided that the above copyright notice and this paragraph are included on all such copies and derivative works. However, this document itself may not be modified in any way, such as by removing the copyright notice or references to the Internet Society or other Internet organizations, except as needed for the purpose of developing Internet standards in which case the procedures for copyrights defined in the Internet Standards process must be followed, or as required to translate it into languages other than English. The limited permissions granted above are perpetual and will not be revoked by the Internet Society or its successors or assigns. This document and the information contained herein is provided on an "AS IS" basis and THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Acknowledgement Funding for the RFC Editor function is currently provided by the Internet Society. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C00C91.7E3A11E0-- From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Wed Aug 23 09:28:41 2000 Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA11194 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22148; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.NETSOL.COM by LISTS.NETSOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8608654 for URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:38:02 -0400 Received: from bailey.dscga.com (bailey.dscga.com [198.78.9.11]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22144 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from michael@localhost) by bailey.dscga.com (8.9.1/) id IAA14622; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:21:03 -0400 (EDT) References: <004001c00c89$20a65b40$6500030a@bnp.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.2i Approved-By: Michael Mealling Message-ID: <20000823082102.F13650@bailey.dscga.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:21:02 -0400 Reply-To: michaelm@netsol.com From: Michael Mealling Subject: Re: new URN namespace To: URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM In-Reply-To: <004001c00c89$20a65b40$6500030a@bnp.pt>; from jose.borbinha@bn.pt on Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 11:34:19PM +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 11:34:19PM +0100, José Luis Borbinha wrote: > Dear URN / URI list members, > I'd appreciate very much your comments and advise for the purpose of this > attachment. This is already a "draft of a draft", so please excuse me > for some possible naive errors already on it... Hehe... so far you're one of the best documents I've seen! ;-) > PS: I did A LOT of plagiarism from RFC 2648 - "A URN Namespace for IETF > Documents"..., for which I didn't get the permission from its author, Ryan > Moats. I've been trying to contact him, but it looks that his email has > problems. I've been receiving from his mail server: > "550 ... User unknown ????" > Any help with Ryan's contact will be also welcome... So did I and I suspect most are using that as a rough template. Ryan is now at a startup that I can't remember right now but I'm sure that if you simply put something to that effect in the acknowledgements section of the document that it will be sufficient. We all rather blatantly steal from each others documents. I haven't had a chance to read the thing entirely through but I have to ask: Since you grandfather ISSNs and such underneath your space, would you be happier with those in their own URN space instead of under yours or is there a particular reason you want to do this? I'm asking because I always assumed, possibly incorrectly, that we might end up with ISBNs and their ilk in their own ISBN namespace (i.e. urn:isbn:foo-bar or urn:issn:foo-bar). -MM -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Mealling | Vote Libertarian! | www.rwhois.net/michael Sr. Research Engineer | www.ga.lp.org/gwinnett | ICQ#: 14198821 Network Solutions | www.lp.org | michaelm@netsol.com From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Wed Aug 23 10:54:48 2000 Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13676 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23026; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.NETSOL.COM by LISTS.NETSOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8608802 for URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:21:12 -0400 Received: from lisboa.bn.pt (Lisboa.ibl.pt [193.136.149.1]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23022 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31426 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2000 15:10:26 -0000 Received: from 195-23-121-134.nr.ip.pt (HELO Borbinha) (195.23.121.134) by lisboa.bn.pt with SMTP; 23 Aug 2000 15:10:26 -0000 References: <004001c00c89$20a65b40$6500030a@bnp.pt> <20000823082102.F13650@bailey.dscga.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Approved-By: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= Message-ID: <00f501c00d0c$e1c7a4e0$6500030a@bnp.pt> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:17:28 +0100 Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= Organization: Biblioteca Nacional Subject: Re: new URN namespace To: URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mealling" > >I haven't had a chance to read the thing entirely through but I have to ask: >Since you grandfather ISSNs and such underneath your space, would you be >happier with those in their own URN space instead of under yours or is >there a particular reason you want to do this? I'm asking because I >always assumed, possibly incorrectly, that we might end up with ISBNs >and their ilk in their own ISBN namespace (i.e. urn:isbn:foo-bar or >urn:issn:foo-bar). I was expecting that :-) Please note that we define "resource" in a frist step as a "bibliographic description". When you ask to our namespace to resolve a "urn:pt-bn:isbn:foo-bar", what it is supposed to be returned is a URL for an HTML page (in this moment, it is an HTML page...). This page presents: - a bibliographic description of the book (in this case, we are talking about books...), as it is in our national bibliographic database (PORBASE) - and possibly links. The links in the page/resource can be of several classes: - links to all the libraries that we know have the book in their shelves (we have that information registered now in a central database, where the updates are done at an irrgular basis, but we are moving to a new distributed system, which will make it possible for some libraries to link directly to their partons' system...). - links to on-line repositories, if the "book" is available in any digital format, and we know it. The access control, if required, will be an issue to be managed by the repository... - (I have in mind other classes of links, but I need to think a bit more about that...) Regards, jose borbinha PS: I have already the contact of Ryan Moats... From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Wed Aug 23 10:57:20 2000 Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13769 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23153; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.NETSOL.COM by LISTS.NETSOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8608823 for URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:26:31 -0400 Received: from bailey.dscga.com (bailey.dscga.com [198.78.9.11]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23149 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from michael@localhost) by bailey.dscga.com (8.9.1/) id KAA14866; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:09:23 -0400 (EDT) References: <004001c00c89$20a65b40$6500030a@bnp.pt> <20000823082102.F13650@bailey.dscga.com> <00f501c00d0c$e1c7a4e0$6500030a@bnp.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.2i Approved-By: Michael Mealling Message-ID: <20000823100923.A14846@bailey.dscga.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:09:23 -0400 Reply-To: michaelm@netsol.com From: Michael Mealling Subject: Re: new URN namespace To: URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM In-Reply-To: <00f501c00d0c$e1c7a4e0$6500030a@bnp.pt>; from jose.borbinha@bn.pt on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 03:17:28PM +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 03:17:28PM +0100, José Luis Borbinha wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Mealling" > > > >I haven't had a chance to read the thing entirely through but I have to > ask: > >Since you grandfather ISSNs and such underneath your space, would you be > >happier with those in their own URN space instead of under yours or is > >there a particular reason you want to do this? I'm asking because I > >always assumed, possibly incorrectly, that we might end up with ISBNs > >and their ilk in their own ISBN namespace (i.e. urn:isbn:foo-bar or > >urn:issn:foo-bar). > > I was expecting that :-) > > Please note that we define "resource" in a frist step as a "bibliographic > description". > When you ask to our namespace to resolve a "urn:pt-bn:isbn:foo-bar", what it > is supposed to be returned is a URL for an HTML page (in this moment, it is > an HTML page...). This page presents: > - a bibliographic description of the book (in this case, we are talking > about books...), as it is in our national bibliographic database (PORBASE) > - and possibly links. > > The links in the page/resource can be of several classes: > - links to all the libraries that we know have the book in their shelves (we > have that information registered now in a central database, where the > updates are done at an irrgular basis, but we are moving to a new > distributed system, which will make it possible for some libraries to link > directly to their partons' system...). > - links to on-line repositories, if the "book" is available in any digital > format, and we know it. The access control, if required, will be an issue to > be managed by the repository... > - (I have in mind other classes of links, but I need to think a bit more > about that...) Gotcha. So you are using the ISSN number to name something in your database, not actually assign or claim authority over an ISSN that may have been assigned in Portugal. The second part of the question still stands: would it make your life easier to have an ISSN namespace to point to or does it really not matter for your application? -MM -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Mealling | Vote Libertarian! | www.rwhois.net/michael Sr. Research Engineer | www.ga.lp.org/gwinnett | ICQ#: 14198821 Network Solutions | www.lp.org | michaelm@netsol.com From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Wed Aug 23 15:22:12 2000 Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21850 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25908; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.NETSOL.COM by LISTS.NETSOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8609296 for URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:50:12 -0400 Received: from lisboa.bn.pt (Lisboa.ibl.pt [193.136.149.1]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25904 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31662 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2000 15:39:31 -0000 Received: from 195-23-121-134.nr.ip.pt (HELO Borbinha) (195.23.121.134) by lisboa.bn.pt with SMTP; 23 Aug 2000 15:39:31 -0000 References: <004001c00c89$20a65b40$6500030a@bnp.pt> <20000823082102.F13650@bailey.dscga.com> <00f501c00d0c$e1c7a4e0$6500030a@bnp.pt> <20000823100923.A14846@bailey.dscga.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Approved-By: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= Message-ID: <014401c00d10$f210d0c0$6500030a@bnp.pt> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:46:35 +0100 Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Borbinha?= Organization: Biblioteca Nacional Subject: Re: new URN namespace To: URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Gotcha. So you are using the ISSN number to name something in your >database, not actually assign or claim authority over an ISSN that >may have been assigned in Portugal. Yes! The assignment of ISSNs in Portugal is a responsability of a publisher's private institution... I am only reusing the identifier... Please note that trying to resolve a URN "urn:pt-bn:isbn:foo-bar" for a book that does not exist in any library member of the national catalogue, it gives you nothing... >The second part of the question still stands: would it make your life >easier to have an ISSN namespace to point to or does it really not matter >for your application? It depends... What would give me back that namespace? If the ISSN authority (like the ISSN...) decides to normalize a URN namespace, than that is another link that I can put in my resource (my HTML page...). BTW, the DOI (Digital Object Identifier) has a similar approach, since associated to any DOI there is always a minimal metadata description... They say also that the resolution of a DOI, by an Handle framework, will point in the end to an HTML page (for now, of course...) jlb PS: I forgot to mention other important detail: we are expect the some digital publications wil lbe deposited in the Nat. Lib. in more than one format (for example, MS-Word and PDF and HTML....). We want to have only one URN for these cases, so another reason because we want it to point to the bibliographic description, from where these different formats (but all related to the same "edition") are available... From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Thu Aug 24 11:36:31 2000 Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19323 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.internic.net [198.41.0.15]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03205; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.NETSOL.COM by LISTS.NETSOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8610374 for URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:06:04 -0400 Received: from lisboa.bn.pt (Lisboa.ibl.pt [193.136.149.1]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA03201 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1621 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2000 15:55:17 -0000 Received: from 195-23-121-66.nr.ip.pt (HELO Borbinha) (195.23.121.66) by lisboa.bn.pt with SMTP; 24 Aug 2000 15:55:17 -0000 References: <004001c00c89$20a65b40$6500030a@bnp.pt> <20000823082102.F13650@bailey.dscga.com> <00f501c00d0c$e1c7a4e0$6500030a@bnp.pt> <20000823100923.A14846@bailey.dscga.com> <014401c00d10$f210d0c0$6500030a@bnp.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Approved-By: José Luis Borbinha Message-ID: <031501c00ddc$527465a0$6500030a@bnp.pt> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:02:24 +0100 Reply-To: José Luis Borbinha From: José Luis Borbinha Organization: Biblioteca Nacional Subject: Re: new URN namespace To: URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit OOPS. I did a mistake... In fact the ISSN is assigned by the National Library (my eyes-based input had a lexical error, so my brain processed "ISBN" when I read it...). But all the arguments that I used are valid also for this case! Regards, jlb ----- Original Message ----- From: "José Luis Borbinha" To: Sent: Quarta-feira, 23 de Agosto de 2000 15:46 Subject: Re: new URN namespace > >Gotcha. So you are using the ISSN number to name something in your > >database, not actually assign or claim authority over an ISSN that > >may have been assigned in Portugal. > > Yes! The assignment of ISSNs in Portugal is a responsability of a > publisher's private institution... I am only reusing the identifier... > Please note that trying to resolve a URN "urn:pt-bn:isbn:foo-bar" for a book > that does not exist in any library member of the national catalogue, it > gives you nothing... > From owner-urn-ietf@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Wed Aug 30 12:28:18 2000 Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.netsol.com [216.168.224.214]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03875 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.netsol.com (lists.netsol.com [216.168.224.214]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03058; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTS.NETSOL.COM by LISTS.NETSOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 8612157 for URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:12:06 -0400 Received: from post.it.helsinki.fi (post.it.helsinki.fi [128.214.205.24]) by lists.netsol.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02036 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from helsinki.fi (kvp13.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.71.205]) by post.it.helsinki.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1-SPAMmers-sod-off) with ESMTP id e7U69tu14313 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:09:55 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Approved-By: Juha Hakala Message-ID: <39ACA516.2124C3C1@helsinki.fi> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:09:26 +0300 Reply-To: Juha Hakala From: Juha Hakala Organization: HYK Subject: Namespaces for national libraries To: URN-IETF@LISTS.NETSOL.COM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, Last week Jose Borbinha from the National Library of Portugal sent a URN namespace registration for namespace "pt-bn", to be used by the library for various purposes. I have a couple of comments to the document. First, the national libraries have an international initiative for registering a namespace "NBN", which stands for national bibliography number. Within this namespace, there will be sub-namespaces based on ISO country code. So, for instance Portugal can use urn:nbn:pt: for basically all purposes Jose lists in his draft. Moreover, since assigning national sub-namespaces within the international NBN namespace is internal affair, you do not need to bother with the registration of your own namespace in the IETF. On the other hand, if all national libraries were to follow Portugal's example, IETF would need to tackle with >150 registration requests. You may remember that I sent an Internet draft registering the NBN namespace to the urn-nid@apps.ietf.org in Spring. The comments were few, and generally favorable. So, from IETF point of view the draft is OK. However, the international working group preparing the text (or, to be more exact, the Canadian participant in the group) wanted to make some fine tuning to the document. Technical basis will remain untouched. Editorial work has not yet been finalised, but I'm hoping that the final version of the document can be delivered before the San Diego IETF meeting. The current text is still available as Internet draft. One major issue remains: what to do if the identifier used as URN also has its own namespace? That is, should we stick to urn:isbn: instead of urn:nbn:pt: or urn:bn-pt:. The answer, as I see it, depends on the identifier system and location of the resolution services. I sent 30 minutes ago to the IETF an Internet draft, which registers a namespace for ISBN, International Standard Book Number. ISBN, as intelligent code, provides good hints as to where to find a resolution service. Since there is no global ISBN database, ISBNs need to be resolved in national bibliography databases. Within DNS system there needs to be a record for each ISBN group identifier (which means that about 200 DNS records need to be created). For instance, if ISBN begins with "951", the DNS record will point to the Finnish national bibliography database. If ISBN starts with 972, the resolution service will be found from Lisbon. In some cases a cascade of resolution services is needed; for ISBNs starting with 3 it is necessary to check Germany, Austria and Switzerland, in this order. Therefore I do not see any need for having URNs like urn:bn-pt:isbn:. In order to enable usage of Portuguese national bibliography database for resolving ISBN-based URNs, you will only need urn:isbn:. But things are not always as simple as this. ISSN (International Standard Serial Number) is a dumb code. Luckily there is also a global ISSN database, which currently contains about million bibliographic records. The ISSN International Centre will register a URN namespace for ISSN. For technical reasons the only resolution service that can be used is the one built on top of the ISSN database (as an aside, the ISSN centre has already built a URN resolution server and WWW browser plug-in; they work fine). Now, if the National Library of Portugal wants to replace the ISSN database with their own national bibliography as resolution service, the only way to do this, as far as I can see, is to define a namespace such as urn:bn-pt:issn: or urn:nbn:pt:issn:. For some reason not clear to me, Jose does not rely on SICI standard (Serial Item and Contribution Identifier, see RFC2288) for identification of journal issues and articles or sections within articles. SICI is based on ISSN, and resolving URNs based on them can be accomplished via using the global ISSN database as a way station. The way this may work is that in the bibliographic record describing an electronic journal there will be two kinds of URL links; some pointing to the journal's home pages, some pointing to a resolution service(s) that can deal with the SICIs identifying articles and issues of the journal at hand. To sum up: Jose's proposal should be aligned with international developments. It is also necessary to analyse more carefully how individual identifier systems actually can be resolved within the URN framework. Some times domestic arrangements should be avoided; some other times they may be desirable. Regards, Juha -- Juha Hakala Helsinki University Library juha.hakala@helsinki.fi