From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Tue Aug 31 14:06:57 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10943 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VI5Xrp050890 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i7VI5X8Q050889 for ietf-usefor-skb; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VI5W60050877 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov-usefor@isode.com) Received: from isode.com (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com via TCP (internal) with ESMTPA; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:11:12 +0100 Message-ID: <4134BDEE.8070502@isode.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:05:34 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Welcome to the UseFor WG mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome to the UseFor WG [new] mailing list. If you are reading this messages, presumably you still care about the outcome of this working group. So I will remind people that they should concentrate on getting the USEFOR document (draft-ietf-usefor-usefor-00.txt) out of the door first. I you haven't reviewed it yet, I advise you to do so ASAP. Charles has submitted USEPRO-00 today, so it should be announced soon. There is some text from draft-ietf-usefor-article-13.txt, which is currently in neither USEFOR-00, nor in USEPRO-00. This should be sorted out later in September, when -01 revisions get published. Alexey From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Tue Aug 31 14:17:16 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11698 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VIGM9E052519 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i7VIGM17052518 for ietf-usefor-skb; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VIGLhh052509 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov-usefor@isode.com) Received: from isode.com (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com via TCP (internal) with ESMTPA; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:22:00 +0100 Message-ID: <4134C076.2010602@isode.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:16:22 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Bill Davidsen CC: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Re: New UseFor headers (was Re: Document definitions) References: <87r7rzmqxq.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu><87r7rzmqxq.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> <412DE042.8000304@isode.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Davidsen wrote: >>> Complaints-To is arguably useful but isn't fully baked; it's a >>> standardization of an existing header that someone thought was a good >>> idea, but whose effectiveness is a bit dubious. I could, for instance, >>> make a strong argument that its contents should be a URL, not an e-mail >>> address. >> >> >> There was a proposal to merge it with Injection-Info, which is fine >> with me. If this happens, I withdraw my voice in favor of using URLs >> (i.e. I am fine with using the email address syntax for "complain" >> parameter inside the Injection-Info header. >> > > It's quite widely used now, I suggest that we have it written and it's > current practice, there are more contentious things we should settle. If the WG wants to standardize Complaints-To as is, this is fine with me. In which case the description of Complaints-To header can be in the USEFOR document. But the document should be clear that Complaints-To is already deployed and the document doesn't make any attempts to extend or fix (if fixing is required) it. Alexey From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Tue Aug 31 15:40:57 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20724 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VJeJGV068738 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i7VJeJd7068737 for ietf-usefor-skb; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VJeIsu068725 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov-usefor@isode.com) Received: from isode.com (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com via TCP (internal) with ESMTPA; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:45:51 +0100 Message-ID: <4134D41C.9060707@isode.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:40:12 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The announcement went to the old mailing list, probably because the UseFor WG page contains wrong email address for the mailing list. I've sent a request to fix that. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:31:44 -0400 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org CC: usenet-format@rkive.landfield.com A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Usenet Article Standard Update Working Group of the IETF. Title : News Article Architecture and Protocols Author(s) : C. Lindsey Filename : draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt Pages : 47 Date : 2004-8-31 This Draft, together with its companion draft [USEFOR], are intended as standards track documents, together obsoleting RFC 1036, which itself dates from 1987. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VJeJGV068738 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i7VJeJd7068737 for ietf-usefor-skb; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VJeIsu068725 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov-usefor@isode.com) Received: from isode.com (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com via TCP (internal) with ESMTPA; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:45:51 +0100 Message-ID: <4134D41C.9060707@isode.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:40:12 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: The announcement went to the old mailing list, probably because the UseFor WG page contains wrong email address for the mailing list. I've sent a request to fix that. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:31:44 -0400 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org CC: usenet-format@rkive.landfield.com A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Usenet Article Standard Update Working Group of the IETF. Title : News Article Architecture and Protocols Author(s) : C. Lindsey Filename : draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt Pages : 47 Date : 2004-8-31 This Draft, together with its companion draft [USEFOR], are intended as standards track documents, together obsoleting RFC 1036, which itself dates from 1987. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VIGM9E052519 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i7VIGM17052518 for ietf-usefor-skb; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VIGLhh052509 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov-usefor@isode.com) Received: from isode.com (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com via TCP (internal) with ESMTPA; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:22:00 +0100 Message-ID: <4134C076.2010602@isode.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:16:22 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Bill Davidsen CC: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Re: New UseFor headers (was Re: Document definitions) References: <87r7rzmqxq.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu><87r7rzmqxq.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> <412DE042.8000304@isode.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Bill Davidsen wrote: >>> Complaints-To is arguably useful but isn't fully baked; it's a >>> standardization of an existing header that someone thought was a good >>> idea, but whose effectiveness is a bit dubious. I could, for instance, >>> make a strong argument that its contents should be a URL, not an e-mail >>> address. >> >> >> There was a proposal to merge it with Injection-Info, which is fine >> with me. If this happens, I withdraw my voice in favor of using URLs >> (i.e. I am fine with using the email address syntax for "complain" >> parameter inside the Injection-Info header. >> > > It's quite widely used now, I suggest that we have it written and it's > current practice, there are more contentious things we should settle. If the WG wants to standardize Complaints-To as is, this is fine with me. In which case the description of Complaints-To header can be in the USEFOR document. But the document should be clear that Complaints-To is already deployed and the document doesn't make any attempts to extend or fix (if fixing is required) it. Alexey Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VI5Xrp050890 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i7VI5X8Q050889 for ietf-usefor-skb; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i7VI5W60050877 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov-usefor@isode.com) Received: from isode.com (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com via TCP (internal) with ESMTPA; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:11:12 +0100 Message-ID: <4134BDEE.8070502@isode.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:05:34 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Welcome to the UseFor WG mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Welcome to the UseFor WG [new] mailing list. If you are reading this messages, presumably you still care about the outcome of this working group. So I will remind people that they should concentrate on getting the USEFOR document (draft-ietf-usefor-usefor-00.txt) out of the door first. I you haven't reviewed it yet, I advise you to do so ASAP. Charles has submitted USEPRO-00 today, so it should be announced soon. There is some text from draft-ietf-usefor-article-13.txt, which is currently in neither USEFOR-00, nor in USEPRO-00. This should be sorted out later in September, when -01 revisions get published. Alexey