Subject: Decision time: versions of -usepro

From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:01:07 +0100

OK, folks have had a little time to look at the two USEPRO versions:

draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-06.txt
draft-allbery-usefor-usepro-00.txt

It's time to make a decision on which one the group wishes to build upon.
I'll give three alternatives:

1) draft-ietf-usefor-usepro-06
2) draft-allbery-usefor-usepro-00
3) I have another opinion, which is.....

Please - only respond if you have read both documents!
As usual, send mail to the chairs if you don't want to clutter up the 
list, but the tally (if needed) will be by name.

                       Harald

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From: "Forrest J. Cavalier III" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:28:25 -0500

> I'll give three alternatives:

Having looked at the comparisons I generated today, I prefer this WG proceed 
with draft-allbery-usefor-usepro-00.

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From: "Forrest J. Cavalier III" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:24:30 -0500

> OK, folks have had a little time to look at the two USEPRO versions:

December is a busy time to initiate an important poll. But rather
than just complain, I did something that can help people evaluate
the differences.

1. I took the TOC from usepro-06 and allbery-00 and matched up the
sections as best I could.  (See below.)

2. I split the documents into individual files, one per section.
(For allbery-00, I had to depaginate first, which consisted of
removing 5 lines per page, using a perl script.)

3. Then I ran a script which cat'ed the usepro-06 section(s) and
to a file, then the allbery-00 section(s) to a second file.  Then I
ran a diff, and appended the result to a file.  The result is linked
below.

A little rough, but you can see the differences almost side by side,
at least for the purposes of choosing.  It may or may not be useful
for sparking discussion.

http://www.mibsoftware.com/userkt/usefor/diff-usepro06-allbery00.txt

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From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 10:54:25 +0000

> than just complain, I did something that can help people evaluate

Thank you!

[...]

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From: "Charles Lindsey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:12:48 GMT

>draft-allbery-usefor-usepro-00.txt

STRONGEST POSSIBLE OBJECTIONS to such an early decision.

I have been reading the new draft very carefully, and have not even got
to the end yet.

There are many protocol changes which have not been discussed yet and
which need to be explored, There are subtle changes in meaning which need
to be discussed, understood and resolved. There are changes in style
which, whilst not crucial, we need to form an opinion on.

Ny broad reaction is that the change in order of presentation of topics is
good, and I would happily incorporate most of them into USEPRO. Likewise
many detailed bits and pieces. But there are is also much that I would
disagree with - particularly where the reader has been given insufficient
guidance as to the motivation for what has been specified, and omissions
of things which really need to be said.

There has been no discussion whatsoever on this new draft. The only
discussion so far has been on Russ's preliminary summary of the main
protocol changes. And the reason for this lack of discussion is, I
imagine, that people have not had time to come to grips with the changes
that have been made.

It is my intention (and I am just about ready to start doing it) to start
posting an analysis of the differences. But this needs doing in smallish
stages that can be digested and discussed one at a time. And my intention
was to start with an analysis of the protocol changes, some of which are
quite significant.

>3) I have another opinion, which is.....

I have another opinion, which is that we need time, analysis and discussion.

And then probably further editions of one or both drafts enabling a
properly informed choice to be made between them.

>Please - only respond if you have read both documents!

s/read/read, mark, learn and inwardly digest/ :-)

-- 
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Fax: +44 161 436 6133   Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: [email-masked]      Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9      Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5

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From: Thorfinn <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:33:35 +1100

On 11 Dec 2006, at 19:01, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
> As usual, send mail to the chairs if you don't want to clutter up  
> the list, but the tally (if needed) will be by name.

Been a *long* while since I posted anything related to USEFOR/USEPRO,  
but I have definitely been lurking and reading.

I do somewhat agree that this is not an ideal time for such a poll,  
but that said, I've read both drafts and the diff.

Prefer option (2).

Thanks,

    Thorfinn

-- 
<a href="http://tertius.net.au/~thorfinn/">[email-masked]</a>
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