Subject: RE: WebDAV Working Group Meeting

From: "Slein, Judith A" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:43:35 -0400

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yaron Goland (Exchange) [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 9:11 PM
> To: [email-masked]'; [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: WebDAV Working Group Meeting
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, unless Keith has changed his mind, as of the end 
> of this month
> WebDAV is closed. There is no more WebDAV, there are no more 
> meetings. 
> 

Keith, what is the status of the WebDAV working group? Will there be a
WebDAV meeting at the November IETF?

--Judy

Judith A. Slein
Xerox Corporation
[email-masked]
(716)422-5169
800 Phillips Road 105/50C
Webster, NY 14580

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 09:41:17 -0400

> Keith, what is the status of the WebDAV working group?

currently, it's still active, but I expect it to be winding down.
The group can request a meeting if it wants, but it shouldn't
take on any new work.

Keith

---

From: Greg Stein <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 13:11:02 -0700

> The group can request a meeting if it wants, but it shouldn't

Actually, I'm somewhat amazed as the desire to blow away this working
group. It is still performing a lot of work with the WebDAV extensions.
If this list goes away, then what? Where does all this discussion go
then?

I find it silly to shut something down simply because some rule
somewhere says it needs to be shut down. Leave it open until the work is
done.

If you must shut it down, then we must have a "DAV Extensions WG" to
take its place.
[this is the heart of the silliness -- renaming something just to
satisfy some rules]

Cheers,
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:55:01 -0400

> If this list goes away, then what? Where does all this discussion go

Many years of experience with IETF working groups indicates that,
in general, they start to become ineffective after 18 months or so.  
There are a variety of reasons for this, but in general we have found
that such groups are likely to either bog down, or go off into the weeds
doing things which are very different from their charters, and often,
at cross-purposes with other groups.  Furthermore many members of the 
group will be burned out by this time (e.g. they are tired of revisiting 
the same issues over and over, or their employer is no longer as 
supportive of the work), which means that any purported consensus 
of the group has to be viewed with suspicion.  So after about 18 
months we start looking for a way to gracefully close down the group.
Often it takes much longer than that, because we don't want to be more
disruptive than necessary.

If more work remains to be done, we can always create a new group.  
This gives us a chance both to refocus on the new work at hand
and also to recruit new participants. 

Working group mailing lists are rarely shut down even after the group
is closed; a WG mailing list typically remains active for as long as 
someone is willing to maintain it.   Such lists are often consulted
by IESG, e.g. when their expertise is needed to review a draft document.

Keith

p.s. This isn't a hard-and-fast rule - we made an exception for HTTP -
it's an administrative decision which has been made by the area director.