From Antoin.Verschuren@sidn.nl Tue May 1 01:18:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B054521F869C for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 01:18:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Me4SwojnySHl for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 01:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ede1-kamx.sidn.nl (kamx.sidn.nl [94.198.152.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A1D821F8697 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 01:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kahubcas1.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.41]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id q418I4G3028542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL) for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 10:18:04 +0200 Received: from [192.168.129.215] (192.168.129.215) by KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Tue, 1 May 2012 10:18:05 +0200 Message-ID: <4F9F9C92.1080002@sidn.nl> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:19:30 +0200 From: Antoin Verschuren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120412 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [192.168.129.215] Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 08:18:08 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01-05-12 04:46, John Levine wrote: > > For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of > name servers they know about that resolve to that IP. A common > bad guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on > the same servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, > e.g. foo.biz has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has > ns1.bar.biz , but they're really the same IP. Before people are getting too wet erotic area's, I think the request is not about names. For a names registry, only forward lookups are permitted, so query a name, and get back IPs'. Querying for an IP and getting back names from a names registry is, although perhaps technically viable, not permitted by at least European database law. I can imagine that it's cool info though, I would certainly like a query for a postal code and get a list of all Internet resources listed at that physical address. Great marketing info, but not the info a registry is supposed to deliver. The IP query is for RIR's I suppose. They deliver IP blocks, so querying for an IP there will give you their registration data for that block. No reverse search. The ID search is something registrars indeed sometimes use to see if the object that exists in their internal DB still exist in the registries DB so they link the correct objects. But also here, it's only a forward object search, no information on what other objects are linked to it in the registry DB. Or to give an example: I want to know when registering a new object if my role-object in the registry DB is still correct, so I query for it by object-ID, that I know by heart or is in my own administration. I then only get back that object, and not all the resources that it is used in. - -- Antoin Verschuren Technical Policy Advisor SIDN Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl http://www.sidn.nl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPn5ySAAoJEDqHrM883AgnkosIAM1JQE8FE4QSLPy0/hZOiC13 pLYr62vN6FZ4KINLHHqrwkvGO97exen8EV/1wG3f8bPNkbZE1104pWJVqh//YSFq 7lH7aCPhi6aZH0hbtNe0HPO8/FLDEfucElqsevsRR/NdarqQ2Ahd+7ul4pCUB3zY R8x4/9MjGaUqpcOx3tglXFqb3sU/W0oFUrIfMwXklI0B7GpcbEvOj3ul1yqYSRmi H0X6vskeo+LmuYXgjWg98JRhdx/Z/s2/WA8A7g0zw8MV3yvQMs1gbrRFu/gZ/KIi GaAU5iTkTool9bggA1vPWWgIxEbkzjt69YSNeAiajW1iKa/tjOeJw2HAmBiTHiA= =TQ+5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave.piscitello@icann.org Tue May 1 05:03:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 658EA21F88AA for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:03:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8T8hEOzTWJKX for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9455B21F88D0 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:03:48 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: John Levine Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 05:03:47 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: Ac0nkncCfWQ6jGyLTjOCFF88bCuVbg== Message-ID: <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:03:50 -0000 +1 In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is the IP of the name server = that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. So asking "what other domain= s host zone files at this IP?", "who registered those domains?", and "what = registrar is sponsoring the registrations?" are all useful crumbs that ofte= n help you identify names used by in a campaign, or the registrant names us= ed in association with a criminal enterprise.=20 On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:46 PM, John Levine wrote: >> I find the notion of asking a domain registrar for information about an >> IP address to be confusing. Is the user expecting to know who they >> should contact about that IP address, are they expecting to find all the >> possible mappings of labels to that IP address , or are they expecting >> to have the domain query service perform a reverse lookup for them?=20 >=20 > For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of > name servers they know about that resolve to that IP. A common bad > guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on the same > servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, e.g. foo.biz > has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has ns1.bar.biz , but they're > really the same IP. >=20 > R's, > John > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From dave.piscitello@icann.org Tue May 1 05:07:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219D621E80DA for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5hfgN7+nsK6g for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E47921E80BB for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:07:57 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 05:07:56 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: Ac0nkwuS268zY6xBS7W3FPXlTCLLrQ== Message-ID: <6484877E-8586-4AE9-ADB3-FDC7F868A269@icann.org> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F47A3@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F4898@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <265BE093-6BD1-4A5B-AEBB-C36178A0A8CF@hxr.us> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392810782A@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392810782A@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:07:58 -0000 On May 1, 2012, at 12:13 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >>=20 >> Is it something the general public would be interested in? Or is it >> something a domain industry person wants? If its the former, it is >> probably a good idea. If it is the latter, then why aren't they using >> EPP or whatever? >=20 > I would like to be able to, given a domain name, get back a unique identi= fier for the registrant (owner, for example), with some expectation that it= 's stable. Then if some other domain name comes back showing the same regi= strant ID, I know the two are related. >=20 > Bonus if I can say "give me all records for which the owner's registrant = ID is X", but I'm guessing that's a long shot. This is a business decision or opportunity for anyone who manages registrat= ion data or accumulates a sufficiently large data set that it is "interesti= ng" for some form of analysis. What makes this hard today is that you must = write over a hundred parsers to do this - and certain Whois responders chan= ge their responses (ostensibly to defeat harvesting Whois). >=20 >> In general, the broad internet using community doesn't tend to remember >> their own identifiers in registries. They only know the natural >> identifiers, such as domain names or IP addresses. So a look up of >> registrar's by ID is, in my opinion, a feature to make adopting the >> protocol harder while not doing much benefit for the broader internet >> public. But host lookups by IP addresses does seem like something an >> internet user may want to trouble shoot problems. >=20 > I think you're right for human consumers of the data, but automated syste= ms might have an actual use for it. No "might" needed. There are actual use cases today. It's just much harder = to do than it ought to be.= From dave.piscitello@icann.org Tue May 1 05:18:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9346421F890A for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:18:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lc8n2VmJ7X7S for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A525F21F88D0 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:18:13 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: Antoin Verschuren Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 05:18:12 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: Ac0nlHrAUnOslNQrTgaDhklYN9HiuA== Message-ID: <53FAB526-F140-4F16-9E68-395AA94F3AA0@icann.org> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <4F9F9C92.1080002@sidn.nl> In-Reply-To: <4F9F9C92.1080002@sidn.nl> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:18:15 -0000 Well, I think you may have a different notion of how the protocol would be = used; in particular, I think you are only considering "public access". I'll ask the questions that seems to be unanswered: - Are we designing the queries to be only useful for user to name registry,= name registrar "web pages"? - Do we intend to accommodate automated queries, where software/scripts ask= queries using http/https and get JSON/XML whatever responses? - Do we intend to accommodate queries that one might make on sets of name r= egistration data that have been collected over time and now form a local da= ta repository? I believe the answer is yes to all three. While "public" searchable Whois (= or in general query by object/argument) may not initially be permitted by l= aw or policy, shouldn't the protocol take into consideration how researcher= s, investigators, etc. make use of collected data today - and make it easie= r and more robust. On May 1, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Antoin Verschuren wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > On 01-05-12 04:46, John Levine wrote: >>=20 >> For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of=20 >> name servers they know about that resolve to that IP. A common >> bad guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on >> the same servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, >> e.g. foo.biz has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has >> ns1.bar.biz , but they're really the same IP. >=20 > Before people are getting too wet erotic area's, I think the request > is not about names. > For a names registry, only forward lookups are permitted, so query a > name, and get back IPs'. Querying for an IP and getting back names > from a names registry is, although perhaps technically viable, not > permitted by at least European database law. > I can imagine that it's cool info though, I would certainly like a > query for a postal code and get a list of all Internet resources > listed at that physical address. Great marketing info, but not the > info a registry is supposed to deliver. >=20 > The IP query is for RIR's I suppose. They deliver IP blocks, so > querying for an IP there will give you their registration data for > that block. No reverse search. >=20 > The ID search is something registrars indeed sometimes use to see if > the object that exists in their internal DB still exist in the > registries DB so they link the correct objects. But also here, it's > only a forward object search, no information on what other objects are > linked to it in the registry DB. > Or to give an example: I want to know when registering a new object if > my role-object in the registry DB is still correct, so I query for it > by object-ID, that I know by heart or is in my own administration. I > then only get back that object, and not all the resources that it is > used in. >=20 >=20 > - --=20 > Antoin Verschuren >=20 > Technical Policy Advisor SIDN > Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands >=20 > P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 > mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl > http://www.sidn.nl/ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) >=20 > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPn5ySAAoJEDqHrM883AgnkosIAM1JQE8FE4QSLPy0/hZOiC13 > pLYr62vN6FZ4KINLHHqrwkvGO97exen8EV/1wG3f8bPNkbZE1104pWJVqh//YSFq > 7lH7aCPhi6aZH0hbtNe0HPO8/FLDEfucElqsevsRR/NdarqQ2Ahd+7ul4pCUB3zY > R8x4/9MjGaUqpcOx3tglXFqb3sU/W0oFUrIfMwXklI0B7GpcbEvOj3ul1yqYSRmi > H0X6vskeo+LmuYXgjWg98JRhdx/Z/s2/WA8A7g0zw8MV3yvQMs1gbrRFu/gZ/KIi > GaAU5iTkTool9bggA1vPWWgIxEbkzjt69YSNeAiajW1iKa/tjOeJw2HAmBiTHiA=3D > =3DTQ+5 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Tue May 1 05:45:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC0721E83E8 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:45:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0-OnUytcaRfW for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A70121E8400 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q419m8dF034609 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:48:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F9FDAE3.50603@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 08:45:23 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F47A3@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F4898@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F4898@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:45:32 -0000 On 4/30/12 11:09 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > I've received a private note from someone suggesting that queries for registrar objects by ID and hosts by IP address should be included in this draft. Does that sound reasonable? no. a "who is at dotted-quad" is (a) impossible for the server to answer completely (com and org spindles are operational separated even if sharing a common business model, etc.) and (b) only useful in the price-capped, no-other-substantive-policy set of registries, aka the cnobi set. the service is best done from bulk access to the cnobi zone files. -e From andy@hxr.us Tue May 1 05:49:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2767D21E84D2 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:49:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c4Xlv67xfyF3 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com (mail-qc0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE3521E84DA for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qcsq13 with SMTP id q13so2236795qcs.31 for ; Tue, 01 May 2012 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=IXqqSY1pHua1cOKNGeeQR2agEO+Isl8ELZfw2RJyuDY=; b=RG1Dg4NCQ8vmnj29NhO1ATrkpW4KQKIlAhF/Xk+VCSUjz0vh/ZJvVS7Dhir1qli72d 9SfcNxtAQ/NRaJ/hyiTeb/BkKvUzC6mcCkqRt1UHyur4b+KQ7yD/AUxxT0p4D/m5LEGt /zX3M5yMj2cSe8Ms25YMhJEPMEqAloiLDoBPqIaBKUP+U6pErR3+eHZchCcM3yJ9tLcu lQeshRdPbIAZObdGILMpgktDfTDC7iveW5aYRY7htfenhLLseikfJRdttkNfYcUO5lSP FmFaQNEZO6X1uw7IXWsJj2H9KzdaLoS7DOUi+D2pimJJhUkygvC+Z9DU5IX1dpqA4+nf l7TA== Received: by 10.229.137.12 with SMTP id u12mr6331915qct.156.1335876544855; Tue, 01 May 2012 05:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andytop.arin.net (core.arin.net. [192.149.252.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s20sm29827734qap.16.2012.05.01.05.49.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 01 May 2012 05:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 08:49:02 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> To: Dave Piscitello X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkgGhICdkwBptxiaGxa4KRTgwfkw881jK9IRkwJYfyWbDUBGgMNjkYXPrch4YhS8uMAJMZ7 Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:49:06 -0000 On May 1, 2012, at 8:03 AM, Dave Piscitello wrote: > +1 >=20 > In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is the IP of the name = server that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. So asking "what = other domains host zone files at this IP?", "who registered those = domains?", and "what registrar is sponsoring the registrations?" are all = useful crumbs that often help you identify names used by in a campaign, = or the registrant names used in association with a criminal enterprise.=20= Are you gonna hit up every registry or registrar in the world looking = for your answer? I'm a little fuzzy on the use case. And does this feature already exist in many registry Whois servers? -andy= From patrick@vande-walle.eu Tue May 1 05:49:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DF221E851A for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:49:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.264 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.264 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_HEAD=1.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RcfP23RlySQW for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucifer.abilit.eu (lucifer.abilit.eu [85.93.218.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 592C021E84C4 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu (ISOC.abilit.eu [10.10.13.199]) by lucifer.abilit.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB02E360122; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:49:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B8C83015F5; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:49:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.isoc.lu [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10006-02; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:49:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from HTC-Desire.fritz.box (103.51-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be [87.65.51.103]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick@vande-walle.eu) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 19ECB3015F2; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:49:30 +0200 (CEST) VBR-Info: md=vande-walle.eu; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=vande-walle.eu; s=Sig; t=1335876570; bh=4WnMMOgjIEhwZ2d2UX0DizNKRExok+eNiE9zXxTx/MA=; h=In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Date:To:CC; b=ltchQ2NCCjblrOhZ1GQXe+kIytDR8WnNStkFdhaPpqIXutqohfVaI0W0OkaZ8nYBd FgXcudcznNN38ILfADeBcCBeVJWEZWvsNOMISizgd9p+Gz/lxLI6lvQGbTNaCsuxHr gyqH1Ex8yJuP3pUNxJ+mfqKDHG4Tv+eo6FgObTKY= User-Agent: K-9 Mail pour Android In-Reply-To: <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----ZZRYYPL9FCFRG9XUC6PM7TFWQAYOGT" From: Patrick Vande Walle Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 14:49:19 +0200 To: Dave Piscitello ,John Levine Message-ID: <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.4 (mail2.isoc.lu [0.0.0.0]); Tue, 01 May 2012 14:49:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:49:46 -0000 ------ZZRYYPL9FCFRG9XUC6PM7TFWQAYOGT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -1. While I can see the usefulness of such an information in specific criminal investigations, I think the registry or registrar could provide this information out of band to the relevant law enforcement authorities, when asked properly. As mentioned already, IP addresses are considered as personal data under some jurisdictions. If anything, this thread also shows the need to come up with an authentication framework. It is not just a nice to have option, but should be an integral part of the deliverables. Patrick Vande Walle Dave Piscitello a écrit : >+1 > >In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is the IP of the name >server that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. So asking "what >other domains host zone files at this IP?", "who registered those >domains?", and "what registrar is sponsoring the registrations?" are >all useful crumbs that often help you identify names used by in a >campaign, or the registrant names used in association with a criminal >enterprise. > >On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:46 PM, John Levine wrote: > >>> I find the notion of asking a domain registrar for information about >an >>> IP address to be confusing. Is the user expecting to know who they >>> should contact about that IP address, are they expecting to find all >the >>> possible mappings of labels to that IP address , or are they >expecting >>> to have the domain query service perform a reverse lookup for them? >> >> For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of >> name servers they know about that resolve to that IP. A common bad >> guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on the same >> servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, e.g. >foo.biz >> has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has ns1.bar.biz , but they're >> really the same IP. >> >> R's, >> John >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds -- Envoyé de mon téléphone. Excusez la brièveté. ------ZZRYYPL9FCFRG9XUC6PM7TFWQAYOGT Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -1.

While I can see the usefulness of such an information in specific criminal investigations, I think the registry or registrar could provide this information out of band to the relevant law enforcement authorities, when asked properly.

As mentioned already, IP addresses are considered as personal data under some jurisdictions.

If anything, this thread also shows the need to come up with an authentication framework. It is not just a nice to have option, but should be an integral part of the deliverables.

Patrick Vande Walle


Dave Piscitello <dave.piscitello@icann.org> a écrit :
+1

In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is the IP of the name server that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. So asking "what other domains host zone files at this IP?", "who registered those domains?", and "what registrar is sponsoring the registrations?" are all useful crumbs that often help you identify names used by in a campaign, or the registrant names used in association with a criminal enterprise. 

On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:46 PM, John Levine wrote:

>> I find the notion of asking a domain registrar for information about an
>> IP address to be confusing.  Is the user expecting to know who they
>> should contact about that IP address, are they expecting to find all the
>> possible mappings of labels to that IP address , or are they expecting
>> to have the domain query service perform a reverse l
 ookup
for them? 
> 
> For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of
> name servers they know about that resolve to that IP.  A common bad
> guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on the same
> servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, e.g. foo.biz
> has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has ns1.bar.biz , but they're
> really the same IP.
> 
> R's,
> John
>

> weirds mailing list
> weirds@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds


weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds

--
Envoyé de mon téléphone. Excusez la brièveté. ------ZZRYYPL9FCFRG9XUC6PM7TFWQAYOGT-- From dblumenthal@pir.org Tue May 1 06:24:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17FF321E8085 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:24:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Npgb3Q394Adn for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com (mail.pir.org [72.44.190.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D491121E8053 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com ([192.168.27.12]) by pir-mail-01 ([192.168.27.12]) with mapi; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:24:41 -0400 From: Don Blumenthal To: Patrick Vande Walle , Dave Piscitello , John Levine Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:24:39 -0400 Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: Ac0nncN9NNsy7nWyQt6gTy6iIcdv6w== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.120402 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 13:24:45 -0000 I used to be in Internet LE. Out of band may not be sufficient for legal re= asons or because of timeliness. It's obviously better than nothing and ofte= n all that's available currently but I thought I should clarify the point. FWIW, relative old timers in Internet LE miss the days when Whois records o= ften included registrant ID numbers. Don From: Patrick Vande Walle > To: Dave Piscitello >, John Levine > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt -1. While I can see the usefulness of such an information in specific criminal = investigations, I think the registry or registrar could provide this inform= ation out of band to the relevant law enforcement authorities, when asked p= roperly. As mentioned already, IP addresses are considered as personal data under so= me jurisdictions. If anything, this thread also shows the need to come up with an authenticat= ion framework. It is not just a nice to have option, but should be an integ= ral part of the deliverables. Patrick Vande Walle Dave Piscitello > a =E9crit : +1 In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is the IP of the name server = that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. So asking "what other domain= s host zone files at this IP?", "who registered those domains?", and "what = registrar is sponsoring the registrations?" are all useful crumbs that ofte= n help you identify names used by in a campaign, or the registrant names us= ed in association with a criminal enterprise. On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:46 PM, John Levine wrote: >> I find the notion of asking a domain registrar for information about an >> IP address to be confusing. Is the user expecting to know who they >> should contact about that IP address, are they expecting to find all the >> possible mappings of labels to that IP address , or are they expecting >> to have the domain query service perform a reverse l ookup for them? > > For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of > name servers they know about that resolve to that IP. A common bad > guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on the same > servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, e.g. foo.biz > has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has ns1.bar.biz , but they're > really the same IP. > > R's, > John > ________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds ________________________________ weirds mailing list weirds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds -- Envoy=E9 de mon t=E9l=E9phone. Excusez la bri=E8vet=E9. From msk@cloudmark.com Tue May 1 06:28:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA03021E80C8 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:28:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.626 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.626 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FWxtSWe3xHNJ for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cloudmark.com (cmgw1.cloudmark.com [208.83.136.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5058421E809C for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com ([72.5.239.25]) by mail.cloudmark.com with bizsmtp id 4dUe1j0010ZaKgw01dUeB9; Tue, 01 May 2012 06:28:38 -0700 X-CMAE-Match: 0 X-CMAE-Score: 0.00 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=T7IOvo2Q c=1 sm=1 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:17 a=ldJM1g7oyCcA:10 a=Z73QZrJw8dEA:10 a=zutiEJmiVI4A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=m9shYIPOAAAA:8 a=yk0J6UvAAAAA:8 a=CFpexY6UAAAA:8 a=wczQm49WUS2qmDyG6qwA:9 a=_5VdN42Lfk_zEErQdZ8A:7 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=VEMw6CfBd8EA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=kGcXSB3dMsEA:10 a=27Eze70B_hNofF2z:21 a=a8GWT2m2RUH34oHC:21 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=ACX8Cp-v-r-4XIxzy1gA:9 a=FmPaoXJ0MQIQAaviYx8A:7 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=nd44Qh_iTHKGDkRb:21 a=pKK87QCPeOKFh0yg:21 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:117 Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2524:76b6:a865:539c%10]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:28:38 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHNJti1X6PeA+oH50GMkDXgVQjCepazZDKQgACJ2QCAAI1uAIAANWiAgACbs4CAAAy5gP//lXzQ Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 13:28:37 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928107D26@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [67.160.203.60] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928107D26exchmbx901corpclo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudmark.com; s=default; t=1335878918; bh=EaGq5o0NdYgE8FP8fqOsDxHbZfnhjs+0RPVXZc2S7co=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: 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amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rcFe9RZ6tVWQ for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D3421E8053 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so6785831iaz.31 for ; Tue, 01 May 2012 06:29:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=T0rn29pAmrqkhCCxyO9Q+3ESqcP12O4rMii26laIchA=; b=gjuFiKyKcPoflp901ZIe03twwRJpOlSxmT88Cf5h8stXlHcjZzFW14Z04uCBN8Pf2q +H2iLPLQw78ODweOD57WzhNNC1ObO8qXeFkpwRP9FsUNAFZByubpPLyZ4XWxtWDKD7Uc HjNzezsD0rkA/MPrM6vjDjf+HQH2a0kYqcvfdA09Pr42U0fLTV+5OEZd0OIj6yZIKjLe UhqUStYgcEj8N9Mk+ci4ECHhAVbSmbtpcM9WPreSa0PGOIdJB0nRPpI4mYVBywSEr3O5 8p+tL+1L//+lEDVlmN/6u/dzPQQnGJDbSLiiksW4CDh/lk7LVg5bhvn6nwd0Q+t9MHIV pC5w== Received: by 10.50.6.167 with SMTP id c7mr1886607iga.4.1335878963569; Tue, 01 May 2012 06:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.26.20.2] ([207.164.79.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id en3sm42074072igc.2.2012.05.01.06.29.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 01 May 2012 06:29:22 -0700 (PDT) References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <4F9F9C92.1080002@sidn.nl> <53FAB526-F140-4F16-9E68-395AA94F3AA0@icann.org> In-Reply-To: <53FAB526-F140-4F16-9E68-395AA94F3AA0@icann.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <74615E3A-4433-484A-9E77-CE3314C54946@mwyoung.ca> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B176) From: Michael Young Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:29:15 -0400 To: Dave Piscitello X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkRaPycEhr1IghkaGoMdPa0VB8JHrJhL5b/xarG14AY3M4LBPmKJpud2Ux67KZDHFHafDg2 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 13:29:25 -0000 Well registry operators have been listing "bulk Whois" in their to be develo= ped list right in the registry agreements for some time.=20 I think what the protocol needs is an option to request a large task ( such a= s "develop a specified report") and a subsequent notification mechanism to a= lert the requester the report (or data collection) is ready to retrieve.=20 Michael Young On 2012-05-01, at 8:18 AM, Dave Piscitello wrote= : > Well, I think you may have a different notion of how the protocol would be= used; in particular, I think you are only considering "public access". >=20 > I'll ask the questions that seems to be unanswered: >=20 > - Are we designing the queries to be only useful for user to name registry= , name registrar "web pages"? > - Do we intend to accommodate automated queries, where software/scripts as= k queries using http/https and get JSON/XML whatever responses? > - Do we intend to accommodate queries that one might make on sets of name r= egistration data that have been collected over time and now form a local dat= a repository? >=20 > I believe the answer is yes to all three. While "public" searchable Whois (= or in general query by object/argument) may not initially be permitted by la= w or policy, shouldn't the protocol take into consideration how researchers,= investigators, etc. make use of collected data today - and make it easier a= nd more robust. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On May 1, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Antoin Verschuren wrote: >=20 >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >>=20 >> On 01-05-12 04:46, John Levine wrote: >>>=20 >>> For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of=20 >>> name servers they know about that resolve to that IP. A common >>> bad guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on >>> the same servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, >>> e.g. foo.biz has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has >>> ns1.bar.biz , but they're really the same IP. >>=20 >> Before people are getting too wet erotic area's, I think the request >> is not about names. >> For a names registry, only forward lookups are permitted, so query a >> name, and get back IPs'. Querying for an IP and getting back names >> from a names registry is, although perhaps technically viable, not >> permitted by at least European database law. >> I can imagine that it's cool info though, I would certainly like a >> query for a postal code and get a list of all Internet resources >> listed at that physical address. Great marketing info, but not the >> info a registry is supposed to deliver. >>=20 >> The IP query is for RIR's I suppose. They deliver IP blocks, so >> querying for an IP there will give you their registration data for >> that block. No reverse search. >>=20 >> The ID search is something registrars indeed sometimes use to see if >> the object that exists in their internal DB still exist in the >> registries DB so they link the correct objects. But also here, it's >> only a forward object search, no information on what other objects are >> linked to it in the registry DB. >> Or to give an example: I want to know when registering a new object if >> my role-object in the registry DB is still correct, so I query for it >> by object-ID, that I know by heart or is in my own administration. I >> then only get back that object, and not all the resources that it is >> used in. >>=20 >>=20 >> - --=20 >> Antoin Verschuren >>=20 >> Technical Policy Advisor SIDN >> Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands >>=20 >> P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 >> mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl >> http://www.sidn.nl/ >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) >>=20 >> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPn5ySAAoJEDqHrM883AgnkosIAM1JQE8FE4QSLPy0/hZOiC13 >> pLYr62vN6FZ4KINLHHqrwkvGO97exen8EV/1wG3f8bPNkbZE1104pWJVqh//YSFq >> 7lH7aCPhi6aZH0hbtNe0HPO8/FLDEfucElqsevsRR/NdarqQ2Ahd+7ul4pCUB3zY >> R8x4/9MjGaUqpcOx3tglXFqb3sU/W0oFUrIfMwXklI0B7GpcbEvOj3ul1yqYSRmi >> H0X6vskeo+LmuYXgjWg98JRhdx/Z/s2/WA8A7g0zw8MV3yvQMs1gbrRFu/gZ/KIi >> GaAU5iTkTool9bggA1vPWWgIxEbkzjt69YSNeAiajW1iKa/tjOeJw2HAmBiTHiA=3D >> =3DTQ+5 >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From michael@mwyoung.ca Tue May 1 06:40:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72AEF21E80C8 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:40:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CisyRppOLbEX for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD9921E809C for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so6799656iaz.31 for ; Tue, 01 May 2012 06:40:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=va2dLkQa2i+hHCo8Z3cMy7bfi2of9kukHmAOPoiBM54=; b=V0sSZbRR18BZnfoXzWP7zzLpnMRkzAxdWEUYJBbM3Y1IFwC0Ovc45O17p/RWNkMahN VR9WLEIjkJl3O9Ofac3/S4PgJgpw1ypewzhTsIsb44Cwvc9AySR2TgnpjdygH3faKGI3 B8CWLCu+VXI0zuD3SQbaK0DMYu6Rgw81xbnP5sGWVlZ8y99gQ1PzoiCxDqoneuZPVMuJ vupHq2YlbwEgV84T+oCfNdx8yOSUDRTwH3IKehJCqVwniKQXy4fExsnCtNu6IxL3224W RnyRiaNEdpRI1j0o1/vaqVhy/LWbUiyqvMkpvlcEwG+jztbQArx/dMD3H95Ng6Di/onJ apOg== Received: by 10.50.153.201 with SMTP id vi9mr1861958igb.46.1335879658147; Tue, 01 May 2012 06:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.26.20.2] ([207.164.79.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hq3sm43547390igc.0.2012.05.01.06.40.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 01 May 2012 06:40:57 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Message-Id: <80B012C9-35EE-47F3-807A-587FE5BB4CBB@mwyoung.ca> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B176) From: Michael Young Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:40:49 -0400 To: Don Blumenthal X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlWU20Z/O06EyvcPjd0B1uu0J822kC3U580+kqJOfAgdJBczJCZYSyid9HvWcbhUP3WROSS Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 13:40:59 -0000 You need a license to operate a Hamm radio or broadcast pretty much anything= , this begs the question - should registrants have to apply and receive an I= CANN issued ID in order to operate a domain and "broadcast" to the Internet?= Michael Young M:647-289-1220 On 2012-05-01, at 9:24 AM, Don Blumenthal wrote: > I used to be in Internet LE. Out of band may not be sufficient for legal r= easons or because of timeliness. It's obviously better than nothing and ofte= n all that's available currently but I thought I should clarify the point. >=20 > FWIW, relative old timers in Internet LE miss the days when Whois records o= ften included registrant ID numbers. >=20 > Don >=20 >=20 > From: Patrick Vande Walle > > To: Dave Piscitello >, John Levine > > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > > Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt >=20 > -1. >=20 > While I can see the usefulness of such an information in specific criminal= investigations, I think the registry or registrar could provide this inform= ation out of band to the relevant law enforcement authorities, when asked pr= operly. >=20 > As mentioned already, IP addresses are considered as personal data under s= ome jurisdictions. >=20 > If anything, this thread also shows the need to come up with an authentica= tion framework. It is not just a nice to have option, but should be an integ= ral part of the deliverables. >=20 > Patrick Vande Walle >=20 >=20 > Dave Piscitello > a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > +1 >=20 > In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is the IP of the name server= that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. So asking "what other domain= s host zone files at this IP?", "who registered those domains?", and "what r= egistrar is sponsoring the registrations?" are all useful crumbs that often h= elp you identify names used by in a campaign, or the registrant names used i= n association with a criminal enterprise. >=20 > On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:46 PM, John Levine wrote: >=20 >>> I find the notion of asking a domain registrar for information about an >>> IP address to be confusing. Is the user expecting to know who they >>> should contact about that IP address, are they expecting to find all the= >>> possible mappings of labels to that IP address , or are they expecting >>> to have the domain query service perform a reverse l > ookup > for them? >>=20 >> For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of >> name servers they know about that resolve to that IP. A common bad >> guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on the same >> servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, e.g. foo.biz >> has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has ns1.bar.biz , but they're >> really the same IP. >>=20 >> R's, >> John >>=20 > ________________________________ >=20 >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > -- > Envoy=C3=A9 de mon t=C3=A9l=C3=A9phone. Excusez la bri=C3=A8vet=C3=A9. > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From dave.piscitello@icann.org Tue May 1 07:49:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B33821E80BD for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:49:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G0-YBMui90rn for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC61221E808A for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:49:17 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: Andy Newton Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:49:16 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: Ac0nqZVDbNlKglE5QrOzRdeT1bvATA== Message-ID: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 14:49:18 -0000 On May 1, 2012, at 8:49 AM, Andy Newton wrote: >=20 > On May 1, 2012, at 8:03 AM, Dave Piscitello wrote: >=20 >> +1 >>=20 >> In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is the IP of the name serv= er that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. So asking "what other dom= ains host zone files at this IP?", "who registered those domains?", and "wh= at registrar is sponsoring the registrations?" are all useful crumbs that o= ften help you identify names used by in a campaign, or the registrant names= used in association with a criminal enterprise.=20 >=20 > Are you gonna hit up every registry or registrar in the world looking for= your answer? I'm a little fuzzy on the use case. This would be inefficient. As I said in a subsequent email, at least some o= f the use cases I'm familiar with are databases of whois records associated= with malicious registrations or domains associated with criminal activitie= s. However, I wouldn't discount hitting up the "top suspects" if I were inv= estigating a campaign that seemed to concentrate on a small number of regis= tries. Sampling might fall within scale, too. > And does this feature already exist in many registry Whois servers? Few I imagine. I know of some research and private applications where this = feature is either present or would be attractive.=20 Are we only interested in replicating what exists today?= From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue May 1 07:57:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901D521E808A for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:57:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.639 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.639 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I-Opbjk3yytB for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFDEF21E828D for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A85961ECB41F for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:57:56 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:57:55 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120501145755.GK76116@mail.yitter.info> References: <80B012C9-35EE-47F3-807A-587FE5BB4CBB@mwyoung.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <80B012C9-35EE-47F3-807A-587FE5BB4CBB@mwyoung.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 14:57:58 -0000 On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 09:40:49AM -0400, Michael Young wrote: > You need a license to operate a Hamm radio or broadcast pretty much anything, this begs the question - should registrants have to apply and receive an ICANN issued ID in order to operate a domain and "broadcast" to the Internet? > Gonna be tough to enforce that given that ICANN has no authority of any kind over vast chunks of the DNS. Anyway, the analogy is pretty weak. The reason you need a broadcast license is because the spectrum is a scarce resource, and because what you do inevitably affects others using the spectrum. DNS names aren't scarce, even if TLDs are artificially scarce, and if nobody ever looks you up then nobody even knows you're there. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From andy@hxr.us Tue May 1 08:01:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1DE21E8241 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:01:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qLecXTrqEW5q for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E5021E808A for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so266481yhq.31 for ; Tue, 01 May 2012 08:01:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=pHl1D0UEIFTlgRZmJX212zZsbU0k70I9PMelHrakW4Q=; b=iBiI/ZOe+nQBClfUuWo1YGHZXL7kaKrD0HQ3WmOsdOnAflJVP4XMDSDPuXAakuapI9 zRP/Lui3ymMvE1FK5pmeZJe5ti5UX1UXhwUprBffjoaj9Uo5G+k6V0kB9/56ZzQzfWwE AsYbeUkfV1ozg6neufsBty5W8wB2Oy779H6zaOuuE90gNF1/yfeqv9aEbCBDtkz9BYcv AtuJ2mxvqn889D8dIZqZFJ05sEzJC71NiP8QjQvwLCgGE6lKOTaLAOhGOdRKvRmCQbeQ MjF3GK7ukHoP54e63Z1KawMW0MgpLuIpQW545qvTPOuTgobi8iYCjI1PcNy40pTiJhYn jYpw== Received: by 10.236.175.105 with SMTP id y69mr26832549yhl.83.1335884476457; Tue, 01 May 2012 08:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:500:4:15:585f:62f7:2886:5b67? ([2001:500:4:15:585f:62f7:2886:5b67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o15sm21815335anj.1.2012.05.01.08.01.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 01 May 2012 08:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:01:05 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> To: Dave Piscitello X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmQL/v1ezXWTfw//zLBr+vEXelFLWXMsUmaNySMcN3wDWjROC1DBx0PSqGJtFJOC6v/7yMW Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:01:23 -0000 On May 1, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Dave Piscitello wrote: >> And does this feature already exist in many registry Whois servers? >=20 > Few I imagine. I know of some research and private applications where = this feature is either present or would be attractive.=20 >=20 > Are we only interested in replicating what exists today? Given the scope creep seen in this thread (not picking on this = particular function), I think it would be wise to do that. There's = nothing stopping us from coming back around and adding things later. -andy From aservin@lacnic.net Tue May 1 08:20:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C60621F8ABA for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:20:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HOST_EQ_DIALUP=0.862, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kAVd0eFGrLAV for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE33621F8ABD for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (r186-48-223-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy [186.48.223.201]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D9E308427; Tue, 1 May 2012 12:20:58 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ADF5ABC1-8572-4A61-AD46-60D08C54F881" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 12:20:47 -0300 Message-Id: <25F98C9D-3F87-49C8-86F7-3E3797779F14@lacnic.net> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> To: Patrick Vande Walle X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:20:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ADF5ABC1-8572-4A61-AD46-60D08C54F881 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Agree with Patrick. I do not really see the relevance to include that field.=20 And as Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info in = the current whois and more important, why? /as On 1 May 2012, at 09:49, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > -1. >=20 > While I can see the usefulness of such an information in specific = criminal investigations, I think the registry or registrar could provide = this information out of band to the relevant law enforcement = authorities, when asked properly. >=20 > As mentioned already, IP addresses are considered as personal data = under some jurisdictions. >=20 > If anything, this thread also shows the need to come up with an = authentication framework. It is not just a nice to have option, but = should be an integral part of the deliverables. >=20 > Patrick Vande Walle >=20 >=20 > Dave Piscitello a =E9crit : > +1 >=20 > In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is the IP of the name = server that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. So asking "what = other domains host zone files at this IP?", "who registered those = domains?", and "what registrar is sponsoring the registrations?" are all = useful crumbs that often help you identify names used by in a campaign, = or the registrant names used in association with a criminal enterprise.=20= >=20 > On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:46 PM, John Levine wrote: >=20 > >> I find the notion of asking a domain registrar for information = about an > >> IP address to be confusing. Is the user expecting to know who they > >> should contact about that IP address, are they expecting to find = all the > >> possible mappings of labels to that IP address , or are they = expecting > >> to have the domain query service perform a reverse l > ookup > for them?=20 > >=20 > > For a name registry or registrar, I'd be thrilled to get a list of > > name servers they know about that resolve to that IP. A common bad > > guy trick is to register a bunch of names, stick them all on the = same > > servers, but use a different subdomain name for each one, e.g. = foo.biz > > has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has ns1.bar.biz , but = they're > > really the same IP. > >=20 > > R's, > > John > > >=20 > > weirds mailing list > > weirds@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 >=20 > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > --=20 > Envoy=E9 de mon t=E9l=E9phone. Excusez la bri=E8vet=E9. > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail=_ADF5ABC1-8572-4A61-AD46-60D08C54F881 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Agree with = Patrick.

I do not really see the relevance = to include that field. 

And as = Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info in the current = whois and more important, = why?


/as

On 1 = May 2012, at 09:49, Patrick Vande Walle wrote:

-1.

While I can see the usefulness of such an information in specific = criminal investigations, I think the registry or registrar could provide = this information out of band to the relevant law enforcement = authorities, when asked properly.

As mentioned already, IP addresses are considered as personal data under = some jurisdictions.

If anything, this thread also shows the need to come up with an = authentication framework. It is not just a nice to have option, but = should be an integral part of the deliverables.

Patrick Vande Walle


Dave Piscitello <dave.piscitello@icann.org>= ; a =E9crit :
+1

In a searchable world, sometimes all you have is =
the IP of the name server that's resolving the malicious/harmful domain. =
So asking "what other domains host zone files at this IP?", "who =
registered those domains?", and "what registrar is sponsoring the =
registrations?" are all useful crumbs that often help you identify names =
used by in a campaign, or the registrant names used in association with =
a criminal enterprise. 

On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:46 PM, John Levine =
wrote:

>> I find the notion of asking a domain registrar =
for information about an
>> IP address to be confusing.  Is the =
user expecting to know who they
>> should contact about that IP =
address, are they expecting to find all the
>> possible =
mappings of labels to that IP address , or are they =
expecting
>> to have the domain query service perform a reverse =
l
 ookup
for them? 
> 
> For a name registry or registrar, I'd be =
thrilled to get a list of
> name servers they know about that =
resolve to that IP.  A common bad
> guy trick is to register a =
bunch of names, stick them all on the same
> servers, but use a =
different subdomain name for each one, e.g. foo.biz
> has name server ns1.foo.biz and bar.biz has ns1.bar.biz , but they're
> =
really the same IP.
> 
> R's,
> =
John
>

> weirds mailing list
> weirds@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/weirds


weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/weirds

--
Envoy=E9 de mon t=E9l=E9phone. Excusez la = bri=E8vet=E9.
_______________________________________________weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds

= --Apple-Mail=_ADF5ABC1-8572-4A61-AD46-60D08C54F881-- From aservin@lacnic.net Tue May 1 08:24:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE6FB21E80F4 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:24:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HOST_EQ_DIALUP=0.862, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hGTANKp4WHBo for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D8221E80D9 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (r186-48-223-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy [186.48.223.201]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E08308427; Tue, 1 May 2012 12:24:47 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 12:24:36 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:24:43 -0000 +1 We can enhance the protocol in round two.=20 /as On 1 May 2012, at 12:01, Andy Newton wrote: >=20 > On May 1, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Dave Piscitello wrote: >=20 >>> And does this feature already exist in many registry Whois servers? >>=20 >> Few I imagine. I know of some research and private applications where = this feature is either present or would be attractive.=20 >>=20 >> Are we only interested in replicating what exists today? >=20 > Given the scope creep seen in this thread (not picking on this = particular function), I think it would be wise to do that. There's = nothing stopping us from coming back around and adding things later. >=20 > -andy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From kranjbar@ripe.net Tue May 1 08:39:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96ED21E80D9 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:39:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yt8l4VHz4M7t for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:67c:2e8:11::c100:1342]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB4F21E80B9 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dodo.ripe.net ([193.0.23.4]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SPFAy-0001Y0-19; Tue, 01 May 2012 17:39:41 +0200 Received: from kranjbar.vpn.ripe.net ([193.0.21.67]) by dodo.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SPFAx-0002DI-OD; Tue, 01 May 2012 17:39:39 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Kaveh Ranjbar In-Reply-To: <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 17:39:36 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2EB358D8-791E-4EF4-8F30-F36455135A12@ripe.net> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for Linux Mail Server 5.6.48/RELEASE, bases: 20120425 #7816575, check: 20120501 clean X-RIPE-Spam-Level: -- X-RIPE-Spam-Report: Spam Total Points: -2.9 points pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------ -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-RIPE-Signature: 98103304a313f58a8eac8a386a982e5b65c04f39be2475f061e98768c1c9e6c6 Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:39:44 -0000 +1 On May 1, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Andy Newton wrote: >=20 > On May 1, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Dave Piscitello wrote: >=20 >>> And does this feature already exist in many registry Whois servers? >>=20 >> Few I imagine. I know of some research and private applications where = this feature is either present or would be attractive.=20 >>=20 >> Are we only interested in replicating what exists today? >=20 > Given the scope creep seen in this thread (not picking on this = particular function), I think it would be wise to do that. There's = nothing stopping us from coming back around and adding things later. >=20 > -andy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From johnl@iecc.com Tue May 1 08:40:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437F621E80EE for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:40:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03k59T0L2ITY for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F9C21E8064 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5639 invoked from network); 1 May 2012 15:40:32 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=1605.4fa003f0.k1205; bh=AcZ1QM64meGuawLiOkyRPg1WDp25IOwnnOnz5NWk9qw=; b=KW6LM6T1JFeCP3EhXvHlAmzppbhjh7skExeOIzS0tyJwCwKsh53ySDEPePMDIQDoMkU7OtomKkdw1vrNsPENUBzXwVa/4pzRg8zrEei31LqgWLewNttR8anHCjK3FXKHwdthEoqKVHW5zcg1v2s4s6w6RFS0d58nwtjP76Mxx98= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 1 May 2012 15:40:10 -0000 Date: 1 May 2012 11:40:30 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Andy Newton" In-Reply-To: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:40:35 -0000 > Are you gonna hit up every registry or registrar in the world looking for your answer? I'm a little fuzzy on the use case. Typically the bad guys use one or two TLDs, so probably not. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From johnl@iecc.com Tue May 1 08:43:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D2C21E80EE for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:43:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PzN6m9WzYK88 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9175C21E8064 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6211 invoked from network); 1 May 2012 15:43:26 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=1842.4fa0049e.k1205; bh=JVUSp9Pey5Smc7LwjxMU4Kn6DE9jkrmBaJxZwROSDNA=; b=JhZcALKJBwLMRiQMmstxvPaGkCOTsJZCw8MUKy+0X1ZK+5Urty8MmtTLipH/BVN8oUs/K2Yd82REtNCOkoLV9sVd0ebVrIdFlwE/eNz8fRwl/Mka5xMRJ12WqguY8m3fCz6hzqSV97WNDM90GhzIZf//j6MVTDSNvLpsQ+Dovl8= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 1 May 2012 15:43:03 -0000 Date: 1 May 2012 11:43:25 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Patrick Vande Walle" In-Reply-To: <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:43:28 -0000 > While I can see the usefulness of such an information in specific criminal investigations, I think the registry or registrar could provide this information out of band to the relevant law enforcement authorities, when asked properly. > > As mentioned already, IP addresses are considered as personal data under some jurisdictions. That horse left the barn a decade ago. If you sign up for zone file access, you get all of the name servers and all of the IPs. This feature would just make it available to people who aren't able to download and index the entire multi-gigabyte .COM zone file. In the unlikely event that there are legal constraints on the data that a registrar returns, they'll always be able to return an error code that means "we can't answer that question." Regards from someone who does download and index the .COM zone file, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From sm@resistor.net Tue May 1 08:57:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E9B21E816B for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:57:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MIJxHkXHKFBq for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F364421E8064 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q41Fv9d7020941; Tue, 1 May 2012 08:57:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1335887834; i=@resistor.net; bh=u8T8AW2zIVuIIszXQMYdVkqVt936jQS2tVxxe/jM1K4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=MaEjlfAf9biYv3kOjN/SWkFgnwo22zy08imUfZcfIvDEy0f3HYNvOoW71EC4ux/wq eC2P9EF5HC/NhxDGNOiEOURhjM+Jw3soWLg6fmT7o7z598lth0oKDRpQjVnR20iEQS /58GmdI4kykNyFibvSaKlOdz3J0gc2ALOuUGa9Qw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1335887834; i=@resistor.net; bh=u8T8AW2zIVuIIszXQMYdVkqVt936jQS2tVxxe/jM1K4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Er4JSsQ776qxl7vHlTR9eYuQCdUeqGHrVP+u5l46L4XYeFqgskR29xvQCXdPYuicd v/+WjXBtxSAF32TpGf2RZuoYgI1eX5OuzXvjroesYs8QRnpnMt28ineEWeGfhVUXk2 d44YxNhv33StCmgyAFt8B9iyxPlcE61dQNmDLWHQ= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120501083033.0a235a88@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 08:55:01 -0700 To: Patrick Vande Walle From: SM In-Reply-To: <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:57:16 -0000 Hi Patrick, At 05:49 01-05-2012, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: >As mentioned already, IP addresses are considered as personal data >under some jurisdictions. There was a presentation within the IETF in the context of the E.U. about this recently. The answer is more complicated than: IP address = personal data. Some of the consumers of the information are: (i) Self-organized groups (ii) IPR "enforcers" (iii) Law enforcement groups The case of the third group is generally put forward by the rest of the consumers. Regards, -sm From dave.piscitello@icann.org Tue May 1 09:22:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F35321E80A2 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:22:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B0n8f85JE0am for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1398D21E8152 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:22:41 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: Arturo Servin Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:22:41 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: Ac0ntqHe1ACsVXMHSpqXXOWJQOKxlQ== Message-ID: <2E0495B1-34E1-47F4-BF04-49FCAE33F15A@icann.org> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 16:22:42 -0000 So we're clear, this increases the likelihood that other implementations th= an registry/registrar might extend the protocol in non-uniform manners. Wou= ld be nice to avoid but I'm not going to fall on my sword on this issue in = this working group. On May 1, 2012, at 11:24 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > +1 >=20 > We can enhance the protocol in round two.=20 >=20 > /as >=20 >=20 > On 1 May 2012, at 12:01, Andy Newton wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On May 1, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Dave Piscitello wrote: >>=20 >>>> And does this feature already exist in many registry Whois servers? >>>=20 >>> Few I imagine. I know of some research and private applications where t= his feature is either present or would be attractive.=20 >>>=20 >>> Are we only interested in replicating what exists today? >>=20 >> Given the scope creep seen in this thread (not picking on this particula= r function), I think it would be wise to do that. There's nothing stopping = us from coming back around and adding things later. >>=20 >> -andy >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Tue May 1 09:34:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0B621E82A4 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:34:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wdghhYsNMwff for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 338F921E8299 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q41DaaKK035689 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:36:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FA01072.6050807@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:33:54 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 16:34:01 -0000 On 5/1/12 11:43 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > That horse left the barn a decade ago. If you sign up for zone file > access, you get all of the name servers and all of the IPs. This > feature would just make it available to people who aren't able to > download and index the entire multi-gigabyte .COM zone file. you really could be less indirect about identifying the least policy business model, and the specific instance of the least policy business model, for which the association of names to addresses is not only not one-to-one, but names-of-rights-of-others-interest to addresses is more than one to one. this is a cnobi problem, and overwhelmingly a .com problem, and so not a general problem for which a solution -- likely to be imposed by a frequently problematic actor upon a vastly larger set of registries, independent of business model, or market share. > In the unlikely event that there are legal constraints on the data > that a registrar returns, they'll always be able to return an error > code that means "we can't answer that question." "rar returns", a typo? if an operator is advised that a jurisdiction exists in which such a constraint exists, how could it partition its response to allow an error code and other data? > Regards from someone who does download and index the .COM zone file, likewise, and some others. -e From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Tue May 1 09:36:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC5721F881A; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:36:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dyNvvrKE-yGv; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C90B21F880E; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:36:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: IESG Secretary To: IETF Announcement List X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.02 Message-ID: <20120501163616.10327.46601.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 09:36:16 -0700 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] WG Review: Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (weirds) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 16:36:17 -0000 A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Applications Area. = The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following draft = charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. = Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by = Tuesday, May 8, 2012. = Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (weirds) ---------------------------------------------------------- Status: Proposed Working Group Last updated: 2012-04-24 Chairs: TBD Applications Area Directors: Barry Leiba Pete Resnick Mailing List: = Address: weirds@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/ Description of Working Group: Internet registries for both number resources and names have historically maintained a lookup service to permit public access to some portion of the registry database. Most registries offer the service via WHOIS (RFC 3912), with additional services being offered via world wide web pages, bulk downloads, and other services, such as RPSL (RFC 2622). WHOIS has never been internationalized. In the absence of formal specification, ad hoc solutions to signal internationalized registration data have been adopted and deployed. Providing a standards-based solution that scales well could minimize further proliferation of ad hoc solutions. WHOIS also has no data model: replies are basically just free-form text. This means that processing of WHOIS output amounts to "screen scraping", with specialized handlers for every service. While many of the domain name registries share a basic common output format, the addition of data elements changes the output and causes problems for parsers of the data. The WHOIS protocol does not offer any differential service; it cannot differentiate among clients to offer different subsets of information or to allow different access rates to it. Various attempts to solve the limitations of WHOIS have met with mixed success. The most recent of these was IRIS (RFC 3891). IRIS has not been a successful replacement for WHOIS. The primary technical reason for this appears to be the complexity of IRIS, the fact that it builds upon many available technologies that in the aggregate form a complex system. There may also exist non-technical reasons, but they lie in areas upon which the IETF does not pass judgement. In recent years, ARIN and RIPE NCC have fielded production RESTful web services to serve WHOIS data, and each has met with success. It is widely believed that this simpler re-use of Web technologies familiar to modern web developers has enabled this success. The purpose of this working group is to broaden the use of RESTful web services by achieving simple and common URI patterns and responses amenable to all number resource and domain name registries. This Working Group shall determine the general needs of such a service, and standardize a single data framework. That framework shall be used to encapsulate objects that could form part of an answer. The framework shall be for data to be delivered via a RESTful data service using HTTP (optionally using TLS), and may use standard features of HTTP to support differential service levels to different classes of user. The data shall have one mandatory format, though the working group may consider other optional formats. The overall effort will be broadly aligned with a subset of the Cross Registry Internet Service Protocol (CRISP) Requirements (RFC 3707), but with the explicit additional goals of producing a simple, easy-to-implement protocol, supporting internationalized registration data and, specifically for name registries, capturing the needs of internationalized domain names in the data model. As the number registries have more experience with these services and have found common ground, with their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response, as an initial basis. Work to specify the query for domain name registration data will be = based on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd. The Working Group shall determine the general requirements of such a service, using draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements as an input document, and standardize a single data framework. The working group will likely not seek publication of this draft. Should the Working Group reach a point where it determines that the = problem of producing a grand unified specification for both numbers and = names appears to be intractable, it will be permitted to divide the = problem into separate tasks and amend its milestones accordingly. Milestones: Nov 2012 Draft specifying the common infrastructure document to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. Feb 2013 Draft specifying the RESTful URL query format for RIRs to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. Mar 2013 Draft specifying the format for responses to RIR queries to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. Jul 2013 Draft specifying the RESTful URL query format for domain name registration data to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. Aug 2013 Draft(s) specifying the format(s) for responses to domain name registration data queries to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue May 1 09:49:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED68D21E8299 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5TF8FsSWKtZd for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og109.obsmtp.com (exprod6og109.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A2E021E80F7 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob109.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT6AUFPzrlCqapMTwuv/LsjR6lxhuEB8i@postini.com; Tue, 01 May 2012 09:49:28 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q41GnKWf031219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2012 12:49:20 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 1 May 2012 12:49:20 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHNJ64D0NhSzLkhgkKZ/Z9qqit1rJa1I3lQ Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 16:49:19 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> <25F98C9D-3F87-49C8-86F7-3E3797779F14@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <25F98C9D-3F87-49C8-86F7-3E3797779F14@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 16:49:30 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =D8 Where is that info in the current whois and more important, why? One example: Verisign currently supports whois host lookup by IP address fo= r .com and .net. I don't know why that capability was added originally, but= I believe it's been there for as long as com/net whois service has been av= ailable. Scott From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Arturo Servin Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:21 AM To: Patrick Vande Walle Cc: John Levine; weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Agree with Patrick. I do not really see the relevance to include that field. And as Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info in th= e current whois and more important, why? --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=D8  Where is that inf= o in the current whois and more important, why?

 

One example: Verisign currently supports whois host lookup by IP addres= s for .com and .net. I don’t know why that capability was added originally, but I believe it’s been there for as long as com/n= et whois service has been available.

 

Scott

 <= /p>

From: weirds-b= ounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Arturo Servin
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:21 AM
To: Patrick Vande Walle
Cc: John Levine; weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.= txt

 

 

   &nb= sp;      Agree with Patrick.

 

   &nb= sp;      I do not really see the relevance = to include that field. 

 

   &nb= sp;      And as Andy mentioned in another e= -mail, where is that info in the current whois and more important, why?

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From msk@cloudmark.com Tue May 1 09:57:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D68C21E801B for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.557 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.557 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yZ1dXXQVu6v3 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cloudmark.com (cmgw1.cloudmark.com [208.83.136.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A538621E8012 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com ([72.5.239.25]) by mail.cloudmark.com with bizsmtp id 4gwj1j0010ZaKgw01gwjGr; Tue, 01 May 2012 09:56:43 -0700 X-CMAE-Match: 0 X-CMAE-Score: 0.00 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=RM8x7ve+ c=1 sm=1 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:17 a=LvckAehuu68A:10 a=Z73QZrJw8dEA:10 a=zutiEJmiVI4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=Hh1a8ap2ajn3iSlfUeEA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:117 Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2524:76b6:a865:539c%10]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:56:43 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHNJti1X6PeA+oH50GMkDXgVQjCepazZDKQgACJ2QCAAI1uAIAANWiAgACbs4CAAAykAIAAIZgAgAADTYCAAAaSAIAAEDuA//+UBNA= Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 16:56:43 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928108588@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> <2E0495B1-34E1-47F4-BF04-49FCAE33F15A@icann.org> In-Reply-To: <2E0495B1-34E1-47F4-BF04-49FCAE33F15A@icann.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudmark.com; s=default; t=1335891403; bh=OgRVVE73Z3z9KoDPFjEIMv4/fGTQc4GxusG8afTeLus=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=DTvLbzFRh6ubYJ+it6sNemfr3Yg0Sqf1jOWcTk37ujfqwk3ZKFEAKpkr214f5ufyG qqyER9wrxwakpBJOyvR561iOgLaLZx9Ea8t+dA4TEsVuwTDS3ARaLQgWnScqPAfb85 z4bff80mbKFgFlDZ0hHEOUEsu42g4A1ogKe/i2gg= Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 16:57:06 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Dave Piscitello > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 9:23 AM > To: Arturo Servin > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt >=20 > So we're clear, this increases the likelihood that other > implementations than registry/registrar might extend the protocol in > non-uniform manners. Would be nice to avoid but I'm not going to fall > on my sword on this issue in this working group. Such could be developed as individual submissions until this group finishes= its first set of deliverables, and then we could re-charter to take on the= extensions. Just one possible path forward. -MSK From andy@hxr.us Tue May 1 10:19:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008A821E8384 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 10:19:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IhIUbRUed9E9 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 10:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com (mail-qc0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260E521E8015 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 10:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qcsq13 with SMTP id q13so2416470qcs.31 for ; Tue, 01 May 2012 10:19:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=i7gqlinbehR3WCBnljQkR0PxjaPee+ZZe9CNzLhlfL8=; b=kFxFfsHLlwpPuwwvecNUdK4GVpWhgWy5TN1ucDMkIsH601L5XqVeBwFnZ7UncOWq3N JraD525/XadGZOF+c4QKR4qSzFQNksiGrS10d7W9a/taX2UoRyrnrU2HyEoUCWPgTk8a MFvBZvZelNQXWmKIctPs46C7MVs305FAenqQU+EgTTB7+TMx+2vEqLwpvZbTX0W5uc6m J+cOzJS5q49l5uAgR6/ngYDhl0rjRTx2mvyEWdU57qwqyA16uF0a4gl7ktR5glFZhBvH NpudkyrVp/BG1QHRaf0IcdbUhKaj1f7UvT1xZPzqxuc02PrTXKWYduG5srFYkTHQAnyy d2cQ== Received: by 10.224.78.198 with SMTP id m6mr22014964qak.73.1335892749824; Tue, 01 May 2012 10:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andytop.arin.net (core.arin.net. [192.149.252.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bm15sm30789682qab.17.2012.05.01.10.19.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 01 May 2012 10:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <2E0495B1-34E1-47F4-BF04-49FCAE33F15A@icann.org> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 13:19:05 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0A32B19A-16C1-41FF-B8F1-D43C073A6670@hxr.us> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> <2E0495B1-34E1-47F4-BF04-49FCAE33F15A@icann.org> To: Dave Piscitello X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlBcomOWOW1D7s3PXWqByvrSrE371um8c8XzxHnY31ETetZqdylL2iHqGIp9uMU8n7yrF62 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 17:19:12 -0000 On May 1, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Dave Piscitello wrote: > So we're clear, this increases the likelihood that other = implementations than registry/registrar might extend the protocol in = non-uniform manners. Would be nice to avoid but I'm not going to fall on = my sword on this issue in this working group. Nobody knows if it increases the likelihood, but the probability of = protocol extensions is there any way. If we attempt to throw every = feature into the protocol now in fear of not being able to add = extensions later, then it is gonna be really difficult to get the first = revision out the door and thus will validate the fears of some of the = critics of this work. Maybe we should keep a list of features desired but not for the first = pass. Often the more complex use cases are clarified after an initial go = round with the base features. -andy= From aservin@lacnic.net Tue May 1 11:11:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E97421E8088 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 11:11:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HOST_EQ_DIALUP=0.862, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JuN26tsFaWWn for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 11:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D8721F899F for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 11:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (r186-48-223-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy [186.48.223.201]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68CE308436; Tue, 1 May 2012 15:11:00 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_128FEF93-37F0-4D3D-9479-FFEBF3BC17E9" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 15:10:48 -0300 Message-Id: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> <25F98C9D-3F87-49C8-86F7-3E3797779F14@lacnic.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 18:11:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_128FEF93-37F0-4D3D-9479-FFEBF3BC17E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 This seems that is because access restrictions, which I think it = could be done with several methods: IP address, certificates, API keys, = etc. Anyhow, if you are going to authenticate by IP address you are = going to see the source address of the connection, not the IP address of = the query. Isn't it? Regards, as On 1 May 2012, at 13:49, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > =D8 Where is that info in the current whois and more important, why? > =20 > One example: Verisign currently supports whois host lookup by IP = address for .com and .net. I don=92t know why that capability was added = originally, but I believe it=92s been there for as long as com/net whois = service has been available. > =20 > Scott > =20 > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Arturo Servin > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:21 AM > To: Patrick Vande Walle > Cc: John Levine; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt > =20 > =20 > Agree with Patrick. > =20 > I do not really see the relevance to include that field.=20 > =20 > And as Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info = in the current whois and more important, why? --Apple-Mail=_128FEF93-37F0-4D3D-9479-FFEBF3BC17E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252

This seems that is because access = restrictions, which I think it could be done with several methods: IP = address, certificates, API keys, etc.

Anyhow, = if you are going to authenticate by IP address you are going to see the = source address of the connection, not the IP address of the query. Isn't = it?

Regards,
as

On 1 May 2012, at 13:49, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote:

=D8  Where is that info in the current whois and more = important, why?
 
One example: Verisign currently = supports whois host lookup by IP address for .com and .net. I don=92t = know why that capability was added originally, but I believe it=92s been = there for as long as com/net whois service has been = available.
 
Scott
 weirds-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Arturo = Servin
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:21 = AM
To: Patrick= Vande Walle
Cc: John Levine; weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; = margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New = Roman', serif; "> 
        &= nbsp; Agree = with Patrick.
        &= nbsp; I do not = really see the relevance to include that = field. 
        &= nbsp; And as = Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info in the current = whois and more important, = why?

= --Apple-Mail=_128FEF93-37F0-4D3D-9479-FFEBF3BC17E9-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue May 1 11:44:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F3C21E814D for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 11:44:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pZV9JEB+K--B for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 11:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og101.obsmtp.com (exprod6og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C821B21E8088 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 11:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob101.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT6Au+Zhg6NwmziduIVaGWESDLMLN+Vym@postini.com; Tue, 01 May 2012 11:44:13 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q41Ii5nS003639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2012 14:44:05 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:44:05 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHNJ8XG31Qsu8PqsUqysAXCEDRgwJa1P26w Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 18:44:04 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> <25F98C9D-3F87-49C8-86F7-3E3797779F14@lacnic.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 18:44:17 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm talking about a query like this, not authentication by IP address: whois -h whois.verisign-grs.com 198.41.1.1 Are we talking about the same thing? Scott From: Arturo Servin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:11 PM To: Hollenbeck, Scott Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt This seems that is because access restrictions, which I think it = could be done with several methods: IP address, certificates, API keys, etc= . Anyhow, if you are going to authenticate by IP address you are go= ing to see the source address of the connection, not the IP address of the = query. Isn't it? Regards, as On 1 May 2012, at 13:49, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > Where is that info in the current whois and more important, why? One example: Verisign currently supports whois host lookup by IP address fo= r .com and .net. I don't know why that capability was added originally, but= I believe it's been there for as long as com/net whois service has been av= ailable. Scott From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weird= s-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Arturo Servin Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:21 AM To: Patrick Vande Walle Cc: John Levine; weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Agree with Patrick. I do not really see the relevance to include that field. And as Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info in th= e current whois and more important, why? --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’m talking about a= query like this, not authentication by IP address:

 <= /p>

whois –h whois.verisign-grs.com 198.41= .1.1

 <= /p>

Are we talking about the = same thing?

 <= /p>

Scott

 <= /p>

From: Arturo S= ervin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:11 PM
To: Hollenbeck, Scott
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.= txt

 

 

   &nb= sp;      This seems that is because access = restrictions, which I think it could be done with several methods: IP addre= ss, certificates, API keys, etc.

 

   &nb= sp;      Anyhow, if you are going to authen= ticate by IP address you are going to see the source address of the connect= ion, not the IP address of the query. Isn't it?

 

Regards,

as

 

 

On 1 May 2012, at 13:49, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote:



=D8 &nbs= p;Where is that info in the current whois and more important, why?

 <= /p>

One example: Verisign cur= rently supports whois host lookup by IP address for .com and .net. I don= 217;t know why that capability was added originally, but I believe it’s been there for as long as com/net whois service has been availa= ble.

 <= /p>

Scott

 <= /p>

From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org]&nbs= p;On Behalf Of = Arturo Servin
Sent: Tuesday, May= 01, 2012 11:21 AM
To: Patrick Vande = Walle
Cc: John Levine; <= a href=3D"mailto:weirds@ietf.org"> weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weir= ds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt

 

 

   &nb= sp;      Agree with Patrick.

 

   &nb= sp;      I do not really see the relevance to include that field.&nb= sp;

 

   &nb= sp;      And as Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info= in the current whois and more important, why?

 

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From aservin@lacnic.net Tue May 1 12:28:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0DE21E8084 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 12:28:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HOST_EQ_DIALUP=0.862, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cZOyJdjRu5Ob for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 12:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E53521E8053 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (r186-48-223-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy [186.48.223.201]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1707308427; Tue, 1 May 2012 16:28:35 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4595C348-3615-4897-B88E-0878752C25E8" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 16:28:23 -0300 Message-Id: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> <25F98C9D-3F87-49C8-86F7-3E3797779F14@lacnic.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 19:28:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4595C348-3615-4897-B88E-0878752C25E8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Probably not. Now, after clearing the confusion, the reply of this query looks = like an RIR reply and I still not see why we would want it in the name = world. Regards, .as On 1 May 2012, at 15:44, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > I=92m talking about a query like this, not authentication by IP = address: > =20 > whois =96h whois.verisign-grs.com 198.41.1.1 > =20 > Are we talking about the same thing? > =20 > Scott > =20 > From: Arturo Servin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:11 PM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt > =20 > =20 > This seems that is because access restrictions, which I = think it could be done with several methods: IP address, certificates, = API keys, etc. > =20 > Anyhow, if you are going to authenticate by IP address you = are going to see the source address of the connection, not the IP = address of the query. Isn't it? > =20 > Regards, > as > =20 > =20 > On 1 May 2012, at 13:49, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >=20 >=20 > =D8 Where is that info in the current whois and more important, why? > =20 > One example: Verisign currently supports whois host lookup by IP = address for .com and .net. I don=92t know why that capability was added = originally, but I believe it=92s been there for as long as com/net whois = service has been available. > =20 > Scott > =20 > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Arturo Servin > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:21 AM > To: Patrick Vande Walle > Cc: John Levine; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt > =20 > =20 > Agree with Patrick. > =20 > I do not really see the relevance to include that field.=20 > =20 > And as Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info = in the current whois and more important, why? > =20 --Apple-Mail=_4595C348-3615-4897-B88E-0878752C25E8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252

Probably = not.

Now, after clearing the = confusion, the reply of this query looks like an RIR reply and I still = not see why we would want it in the name = world.

Regards,
.as

= On 1 May 2012, at 15:44, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote:

I=92m talking about a = query like this, not authentication by IP = address:
whois = =96h whois.verisign-grs.com 198.41.1.1<= /div>
Are = we talking about the same thing?
 Arturo = Servin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:11 = PM
To: Hollenbeck, = Scott
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; = margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New = Roman', serif; "> 
        &= nbsp; This = seems that is because access restrictions, which I think it could be = done with several methods: IP address, certificates, API keys, = etc.
        &= nbsp; Anyhow, = if you are going to authenticate by IP address you are going to see the = source address of the connection, not the IP address of the query. Isn't = it?
On 1 May 2012, at 13:49, = Hollenbeck, Scott wrote:
=D8  Where is that info in the current whois and more = important, why?
One example: Verisign currently = supports whois host lookup by IP address for .com and .net. I don=92t = know why that capability was added originally, but I believe it=92s been = there for as long as com/net whois service has been = available.
<= /div>
 
 
        &= nbsp; Agree = with Patrick.
 
        &= nbsp; I do not = really see the relevance to include that = field. 
 
        &= nbsp; And as = Andy mentioned in another e-mail, where is that info in the current = whois and more important, = why?
To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHNJ9CbF5ppmhXkakua1fDNmQZuXpa1W/Lw Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 20:12:47 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F72D8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> <25F98C9D-3F87-49C8-86F7-3E3797779F14@lacnic.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F72D8BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 20:12:57 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F72D8BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Arturo Servin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 3:28 PM To: Hollenbeck, Scott Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Probably not. Now, after clearing the confusion, the reply of this query looks = like an RIR reply and I still not see why we would want it in the name worl= d. Possibly because different information is returned. In the com/net case Ver= isign returns information that describes DNS delegations to the host. An R= IR response describes address assignment. Scott --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F72D8BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: Arturo S= ervin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 3:28 PM
To: Hollenbeck, Scott
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.= txt

 

 

   &nb= sp;      Probably not.

 

   &nb= sp;      Now, after clearing the confusion,= the reply of this query looks like an RIR reply and I still not see why we= would want it in the name world.

 <= /p>

Possibly because differen= t information is returned. In the com/net case Verisign returns information= that describes DNS delegations to the host.  An RIR response describes address assignment.

 <= /p>

Scott

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F72D8BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From aservin@lacnic.net Tue May 1 13:27:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C994811E8074 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 13:27:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HOST_EQ_DIALUP=0.862, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yd0mQxJHzFlm for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 13:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCE111E8072 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 13:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (r186-48-223-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy [186.48.223.201]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id D464C30843C; Tue, 1 May 2012 17:27:39 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A0297E03-EC61-447A-98EA-7880487E1544" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F72D8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 17:27:27 -0300 Message-Id: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <0145b859-fce2-488d-a9a9-b629525e2b6b@email.android.com> <25F98C9D-3F87-49C8-86F7-3E3797779F14@lacnic.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F6DB6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F7018@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F72D8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 20:27:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A0297E03-EC61-447A-98EA-7880487E1544 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ok, I get it now. Regards, as On 1 May 2012, at 17:12, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > From: Arturo Servin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 3:28 PM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt > =20 > =20 > Probably not. > =20 > Now, after clearing the confusion, the reply of this query = looks like an RIR reply and I still not see why we would want it in the = name world. > =20 > Possibly because different information is returned. In the com/net = case Verisign returns information that describes DNS delegations to the = host. An RIR response describes address assignment. > =20 > Scott --Apple-Mail=_A0297E03-EC61-447A-98EA-7880487E1544 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Ok, I get it = now.

Regards,
as



On 1 May 2012, at 17:12, Hollenbeck, Scott = wrote:

 Arturo = Servin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 3:28 = PM
To: Hollenbeck, = Scott
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; = margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New = Roman', serif; "> 
        &= nbsp; Probably = not.
        &= nbsp; Now, = after clearing the confusion, the reply of this query looks like an RIR = reply and I still not see why we would want it in the name = world.
In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928108588@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 09:36:47 +1000 Message-Id: References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> <6DAAECD8-30D3-4195-BE44-C95D0EE3ECE3@icann.org> <7A3EC36C-31DB-47F9-8BEB-DA8D655C5FCE@hxr.us> <2E0495B1-34E1-47F4-BF04-49FCAE33F15A@icann.org> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928108588@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 23:36:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8FCB2CD7-C7D3-4DD0-BAAD-DF9FB80913A4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Given this case could be generalised to a reverse lookup search function = based on arbitrary attributes, including name server IP address, I would = support an approach around an individual submission for a search API = extension. I could see this as generic across names and numbers, if it = is merely asking, essentially, for all type records where attribute = a> is some value . Privacy concerns about whether this function should be provided for a = particular attribute, or at all, with or without authorisation, should = remain a local operator decision - the draft should follow the = rir-response aim of minimising policy decisions taken within a technical = protocol specification. Byron On 02/05/2012, at 2:56 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Dave Piscitello >> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 9:23 AM >> To: Arturo Servin >> Cc: weirds@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt >>=20 >> So we're clear, this increases the likelihood that other >> implementations than registry/registrar might extend the protocol in >> non-uniform manners. Would be nice to avoid but I'm not going to fall >> on my sword on this issue in this working group. >=20 > Such could be developed as individual submissions until this group = finishes its first set of deliverables, and then we could re-charter to = take on the extensions. >=20 > Just one possible path forward. >=20 > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail=_8FCB2CD7-C7D3-4DD0-BAAD-DF9FB80913A4 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIEBjCCBAIw ggLqoAMCAQICCCoPITf60ZNDMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIw EAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwxFjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNi YW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQBGRYCY2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMB4XDTExMTEyODAxNTEzNloXDTEy MTEyNzAxNTEzNlowgZIxGTAXBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEBDAliamUtc3RhZmYxEjAQBgNVBAMMCWJqZS1z dGFmZjEOMAwGA1UEKgwFQnlyb24xETAPBgNVBAQMCEVsbGFjb3R0MQ8wDQYDVQQLDAZQZW9wbGUx FjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxFTATBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEZFgVzdGFmZjCCASIwDQYJKoZI hvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBANVQo/BOmY5CCWNeAldlgoWZKOzIZpOsFzD6NB2oAErtclDu uiZsXfl+L97UOwUlhu1eGlY5gKuAhGcrEBvDgTT1eEr3vkdKILhJw78s5n8eLOWrmhPKBnW8gSn9 7MbAxVQx3V1/RpToKAF8cR4il03Z7mveaBQbaivM2jReHcgfJPt9w0qhTVZO2POLuVClRcExaNt1 h+QdMLa6VU5x7rJo9JFqjTAvJzMApW+WY/7oumR9+4a9ZGThlETI2b83XAMrrJ7DHm237Jskgl+X FGILIq8zOhNiAbhEg+gAyJ8bOzwwydDY+ggWQ466duZZq4wxmr1+YhxVf51v2R5MSicCAwEAAaN6 MHgwHQYDVR0OBBYEFIQXSivz3cLpaFy23DdhpGhyyo5pMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwHwYDVR0jBBgw FoAU4D23klvuLqOyPnnbRaswQi8BS6wwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgHyMBgGA1UdEQQRMA+BDWJqZUBh cG5pYy5uZXQwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAEk9zi8BTUEY4rqDGEIFDNIpmX/yS3fTah39Mele pV93sRsjqLy2G47vhhnkgSTEWV2jJOD7tjzjswxtWUL6KG36dUDVL3XbQ1OObxkiDJbqje4BoWrd a8/5PoIPC0hkSDXGoitvoXkL8Pd9x9Y+kyMlKo1C0lk5bCUG4yjk5wVLuSSm5m+KZ3+YVdPp6dKp C0DRhvFdsrz2zIOT/sWheCQO0HRU300UYngB/xoqc1KWH2dROIUhLqwtyoCQbQKQjW9C+JMMw2Ij vfVXJZGMWjbp5l8RQeUSJ+0vVJXJbIL6PfEsyQupUV3AJsSTRmtllqzCBCz2Abd14xyeqw0eJfwx ggMtMIIDKQIBATB/MHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIwEAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwxFjAU BgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNiYW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQBGRYC Y2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVAggqDyE3+tGTQzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBgzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xMjA1MDEyMzM2NDdaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTJ HDodsc7oJoT55TMCFupLlcXiqzCBjwYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGBMH8wczERMA8GA1UEAwwIc3RhZmYt Y2ExEjAQBgNVBAsMCVRlY2huaWNhbDEWMBQGA1UECgwNQVBOSUMgUHR5IEx0ZDERMA8GA1UEBwwI QnJpc2JhbmUxEjAQBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEZFgJjYTELMAkGA1UEBhMCQVUCCCoPITf60ZNDMIGRBgsq hkiG9w0BCRACCzGBgaB/MHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIwEAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwx FjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNiYW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQB GRYCY2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVAggqDyE3+tGTQzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQBdilZS3siRu6sN uMrC5GsF3qKDwez1O2GYhfGvbTpNyKaXmTCw0aoZQdtF5NtYqCDjai0uZ41QI5TYMGJNX0FPru9R SbFY8yPdbEsFVv7rLUVrjN4r+zWso6fjZ2AKweYGuJKfjFhKWPEvb0stHMm2cSmStN1jynRSBdWL whT7ZidBBIWPW4kqmrnBTico4Cfsb1+d6PSbVMh0w78DhU08/f8TZS4nA6OGdUvsx1kJKdRpnryD nMjFvKEf2Pb3LMJe+TCxhhFjenrXGeXSbYdvWAedodI6wXamoPwIJvqrtt/LGxGLGRJSlL8N37lq 8SeBfcfHWP9ZTWY2kOtphT8bAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_8FCB2CD7-C7D3-4DD0-BAAD-DF9FB80913A4-- From johnl@iecc.com Tue May 1 21:03:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218E521E802C for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 21:03:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.764 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.764 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.435, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xRnnZ0zWQLfr for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 21:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDA521E8013 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 21:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25867 invoked from network); 2 May 2012 04:03:13 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 2 May 2012 04:03:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fa0b201.xn--30v786c.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=FpE1OSMsL1GLSZFNBMc8gvKTRQ9pHBxFGE3ZTTZ/EAo=; b=f1kyydKvhdFnghwH8dC2Sy9y0vw1/wrqzURsx0wRQBuOqEOx+cAw/52K0KQFvMWx7x5hrGdXY+wUJo0krZPCF0g8BPe2fahjsZpWF/PD5I525lZzbbYSNIalSuX5mUHdwqoUzL8HmpfZ/m4SL6Z50xlhj26lWG8wKJNOtrn4TXI= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 2 May 2012 04:02:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4F9F9C92.1080002@sidn.nl> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 04:03:18 -0000 > Querying for an IP and getting back names >from a names registry is, although perhaps technically viable, not >permitted by at least European database law. I know that many people believe that, but I'm fairly sure you're mistaken. (Feel free to provide case law.) As I pointed out to someone else, anyone can get zone file access for gTLDs which provides all of that information and more. R's, John From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Wed May 2 00:16:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F412421F875D for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 00:16:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.284 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.284 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.395, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25jyiBTRbSEv for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 00:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A419721F8789 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 00:16:21 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 02 May 2012 15:16:14 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'James Mitchell'" , "'John Levine'" , References: <20120501024631.97808.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:16:17 +0800 Message-ID: <004e01cd2833$77dbf780$6793e680$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac0nWB9sOQqjvKU4Tu+Hfl4mQNZl9wA1yFsw Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 07:16:24 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > James Mitchell > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 1:06 PM > To: John Levine; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt > > Registries will limit the number of hosts returned from an IP address query. > This limit might be lifted should the registry offer different classes of service for > consumers such as law enforcement agencies etc. > Knowing the limit has been reached would be useful. Agree. This is might be one option. So requirements scope seems important. > One should note that Base Agreement & Specifications (Specification 4) of the > new gTLD Applicant Guidebook > -e > n.pdf> requires Registries to provide name server responses for IP address > input. > Yes, the specification 4 of the AGB specifies the query format, whois "NS1.EXAMPLE.TLD" or whois "nameserver (IP Address)". At least, new gTLD applicants will follow the current specification and implement this function. From Antoin.Verschuren@sidn.nl Wed May 2 05:52:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20EE221F86D0 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 05:52:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zHaD9NJNOIop for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 05:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ede1-kamx.sidn.nl (kamx.sidn.nl [94.198.152.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27CD821F86AD for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 05:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kahubcas1.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.41]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id q42CqI3A006485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL) for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 14:52:18 +0200 Received: from [192.168.129.215] (192.168.129.215) by KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Wed, 2 May 2012 14:52:19 +0200 Message-ID: <4FA12E00.7070600@sidn.nl> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 14:52:16 +0200 From: Antoin Verschuren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120412 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [192.168.129.215] Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 12:52:21 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 02-05-12 06:02, John Levine wrote: > As I pointed out to someone else, anyone can get zone file access > for gTLDs which provides all of that information and more. Please broaden your scope if this is to fly. Most ccTLD's don't provide zone file access. Let's please focus on the main functionality that's needed, and don't let this WG get hyjacked by maslow's hammer guys. - -- Antoin Verschuren Technical Policy Advisor SIDN Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl http://www.sidn.nl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPoS3/AAoJEDqHrM883AgnAdkIAIF3Ohf/KdZVt5LiZUE8x+Up mD0pjMtuVt3EHxGKenEr81fiysyaM6EqGg0Wj1t+T1SgDWD62FRavzW3UZdF6Fz7 NsnrKldq51ny278PSD2Rb2MZBpuxgFnZ+JsSjpYfF8kbV+etmktrnfiocTCQyEHz MvI+AsK7gaMUfKmNtJICC0Cj3bfrMb7r9dN+tpbvi892zCS5G8yapNNUGt69JoG+ m6Bn/JO2VYcie98ajlaf9NXaPZNl1eVIO707PnRfpSeVIHdiUC4gJBB0lKa3+bLO vHxJPM351pOQf892w62t+UZamu+EwHAuGoIxPcX0snb4bwzeuk1OmTSuS7tK1F4= =f4nW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Wed May 2 06:05:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A4621F84AA for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 06:05:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 95ONrqjbFmm3 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 06:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE4521F84A1 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 06:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q42A7r2S041876 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 06:07:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FA13114.2070107@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 09:05:24 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 13:05:31 -0000 On 5/2/12 12:02 AM, John Levine wrote: >> at least European database law. > I know that many people believe that, but I'm fairly sure you're > mistaken. (Feel free to provide case law.) case law would be definitive if europe was a common law jurisdiction, as most of it isn't, prudent reading of the data protection directive literature could support the belief you are sure is mistaken. the authors of the w3c p3p spec (self included) anticipated that personally identifying information was present in, or derivable from, a portion of an ipv4 endpoint identifier. the spec group as a whole settled on a /24 as sufficiently anonymous, i thought a larger bit mask was prudent. i understand you think us mistaken, not as to fact, but as to necessity. > As I pointed out to someone else, anyone can get zone file access for > gTLDs which provides all of that information and more. the gtld registries are permitted by their contract with the party currently executing the iana contract to make zone file access subject to conditions. the aggregate of the initial access cost (in time and {e}paper touched and the conditions on continuous access, one of which includes the bandwidth/storage cost of transferring the zone file of principal interest, as well as access policy updates, are sufficiently large to distinguish this use case from an unauthenticated transaction with a payload containing a query with search terms to be executed by the server. -e From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed May 2 06:29:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36A721F8570 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 06:29:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.639 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.639 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l3HzacEZ0Zny for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 06:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9E921F8581 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 06:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D81CA1ECB41F for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 13:29:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 09:29:12 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120502132908.GD81729@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FA12E00.7070600@sidn.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FA12E00.7070600@sidn.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 13:29:17 -0000 On Wed, May 02, 2012 at 02:52:16PM +0200, Antoin Verschuren wrote: > Let's please focus on the main functionality that's needed, and don't > let this WG get hyjacked by maslow's hammer guys. Indeed, it is this sort of rathole that some sceptics about names work were thinking of when they argued that the names work would never complete. I'd like for us to show why that's mistaken. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Wed May 2 07:33:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3923421F85F6 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 07:33:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cBJG9yaua9Ml for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 07:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mx3.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B15521F85D9 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 07:33:19 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=60yEqoE2ad2VVdu7PGXk1gxgn24RzJuDjBAslI4RtzvlIZSQK8yLS9IA 7pg6kDllwW9QvNeYrrn5v/Ce2CAvHjm9NRvB7aaR9i6vZls4AKCWsgfXB F9+vuaORO5VCsH1; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1335969200; x=1367505200; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20I-D=20Action:=20draft-hollen beck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt|Date:=20Wed,=202=20May=202012 =2014:33:22=20+0000|Message-ID:=20<112675D2-AF00-4025-971 3-CFF3F097ABF7@nominet.org.uk>|To:=20Andrew=20Sullivan=20 |CC:=20""=20|MIME-Version:=201.0 |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |Content-ID:=20 |In-Reply-To:=20<20120502132908.GD81729@mail.yitter.info> |References:=20<20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan>=20<4 FA12E00.7070600@sidn.nl>=0D=0A=20<20120502132908.GD81729@ mail.yitter.info>; bh=LFpFfQQ3WYRtplcAWblFPmcV2McQuX0oR0B8OEH1Qcw=; b=vxkIlg2gE/8hKx4Z+mrmBMW7G67MnjhA43CezcR+hpKWkNpBWzPWj6UF 3cpzsRh1ewdqwh1CAc0o+lxd7UI/akNZ+OyeVlAKTBVs8NF9KNUKbaOcJ 54N019k93Nbr7OW; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,517,1330905600"; d="scan'208";a="40145346" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 02 May 2012 15:33:18 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Wed, 2 May 2012 15:33:17 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: Andrew Sullivan Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHNJynuRQr367mJXUSP8zOkjtCiqpa0KiKAgABdCQCAAUqggIAAk+sAgAAKUQCAABHuAA== Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 14:33:22 +0000 Message-ID: <112675D2-AF00-4025-9713-CFF3F097ABF7@nominet.org.uk> References: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FA12E00.7070600@sidn.nl> <20120502132908.GD81729@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120502132908.GD81729@mail.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 14:33:21 -0000 On 2 May 2012, at 14:29, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Indeed, it is this sort of rathole that some sceptics about names work > were thinking of when they argued that the names work would never > complete. I'd like for us to show why that's mistaken. +1 let's get the pure name stuff done first - IMHO "id" and "host" queries are= too tied to particular data models and per-TLD policy. Ray From patrick@vande-walle.eu Wed May 2 08:02:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E1521F863F for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:02:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.285 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.285 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZM4bEeKxSyEI for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucifer.abilit.eu (lucifer.abilit.eu [85.93.218.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBE2521F84BF for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu (ISOC.abilit.eu [10.10.13.199]) by lucifer.abilit.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70F1F360122 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 17:02:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20661301621 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 17:02:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.isoc.lu [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15347-10 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 17:02:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Cioran.vande-walle.eu (141.6-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be [87.65.6.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick@vande-walle.eu) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8913C301619 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 17:02:17 +0200 (CEST) VBR-Info: md=vande-walle.eu; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=vande-walle.eu; s=Sig; t=1335970937; bh=lVXcdxZE//rtK/G6Lzh3HpmPIzNLhWtnSGYrMUngu5E=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=ZQrpoehM3ohymMTsrXBzFvOszPVNRvvvlWFwFBZjcL86BsPQF210VVV4pDQO5c6Kd rZIU+CfehwQ25vhqv05ZI9SjF4iQOLAC4UgZm48GqyW7ppz8mQxa8kr85GpiYk1dle 0/Czkuu0ctNYfprFIlGkpMlHJ7q6CI3xTioa25cs= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Cioran.vande-walle.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EFB823F952 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 17:01:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4FA14C57.8050608@vande-walle.eu> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 17:01:43 +0200 From: Patrick Vande Walle Organization: My own disorganization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070306020407090108000407" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.4 (mail2.isoc.lu [0.0.0.0]); Wed, 02 May 2012 17:02:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3 Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: patrick@vande-walle.eu List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 15:02:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070306020407090108000407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 02/05/12 06:02, John Levine wrote: >> Querying for an IP and getting back names > >from a names registry is, although perhaps technically viable, not >> permitted by at least European database law. > I know that many people believe that, but I'm fairly sure you're > mistaken. (Feel free to provide case law.) As Eric pointed out, there is no need for case law, although you will find several judgements from the Europe an Court of Justice, national courts, as well as opinions from the Article 27 Working Party and the European Data Protection office that will all say that IP addresses are personal data. Google's your friend. Now of course, there is a difference in concept between an IP address assigned to your home CPE and one assigned to a DNS server. This would require careful analysis. This begs a question. Being rather new here, I would like to know if the IETF has a process in place for WGs to obtain independent legal guidance, rather than just engineers playing at being lawyers ? Patrick Vande Walle --------------070306020407090108000407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 02/05/12 06:02, John Levine wrote: 
Querying for an IP and getting back names

>from a names registry is, although perhaps technically viable, not

permitted by at least European database law.

I know that many people believe that, but I'm fairly sure you're
mistaken.  (Feel free to provide case law.)

As Eric pointed out, there is no need for case law, although you will find several judgements from the Europe an Court of Justice, national courts, as well as opinions from the Article 27 Working Party and the European Data Protection office that will all say that IP addresses are personal data.  Google's your friend.  Now of course, there is a difference in concept between an IP address assigned to your home CPE and one assigned to a  DNS server.  This would require careful analysis.

This begs a question. Being rather new here, I would like to know if the IETF has a process  in place for WGs to obtain  independent legal guidance, rather than just engineers playing at being lawyers ? 

Patrick Vande Walle









--------------070306020407090108000407-- From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed May 2 08:07:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4330511E807F for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:07:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.637 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.637 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BmgtdKtcTsxA for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD87D21F8637 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E36541ECB41F for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 15:07:05 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 11:07:04 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120502150655.GL81729@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FA14C57.8050608@vande-walle.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FA14C57.8050608@vande-walle.eu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 15:07:08 -0000 On Wed, May 02, 2012 at 05:01:43PM +0200, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > This begs a question. Being rather new here, I would like to know if the > IETF has a process in place for WGs to obtain independent legal > guidance, rather than just engineers playing at being lawyers ? The IETF has legal counsel. I think it's the IAOC that has to make decisions about using it, since there's money involved. I imagine an AD would need to make a request, but I have no idea. This came up for me recently in the context of SPFBIS, and the answers were all "good question", so I don't think there's a real procedure in place. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From johnl@iecc.com Wed May 2 09:16:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7A5821F853B for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 09:16:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.304, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cFNamO6Dm9RG for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 09:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C5A21F8539 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 09:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 65869 invoked from network); 2 May 2012 16:16:10 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 2 May 2012 16:16:10 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fa15dca.xn--3zv.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=TUOvuR08ZoDjJ05WFf/cDkc62H4tzZKR8ZGW1uJ4x2Y=; b=arQ8926l7/PT88Bj6encneMydsiU6woVvkZhkuj2gDzzDEMOJQjUqfXUAwsDS3x1I1Zvsof8yu7a6YbNYx+ewSfmLrdgcc1Pmnn3iWkeZ/pcVd9Hl6Cp5mIETyxBZSLksUdph0Ajt4EozEsXOSk/V/7Qj39El+k4GjezlcDZk3A= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 2 May 2012 16:15:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20120502161548.12939.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4FA14C57.8050608@vande-walle.eu> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 16:16:13 -0000 > That case was about mandatory web filtering, and presumably logging addresses of individual http clients. I see no relationship to the addresses of name servers, which by their nature are unlikely to be on an individual's computer and which are already published. In any event, as I've said several times, this would be a useful query, and if there are services that can't provide responses, so be it. Put it on the list of things that it would be to have and move ahead. >This begs a question. Being rather new here, I would like to know if the >IETF has a process in place for WGs to obtain independent legal >guidance, rather than just engineers playing at being lawyers ? No, the IETF develops standards, the use of which is entirely voluntary. It's up to you to obey the law of the jurisdiction where you live. R's, John From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Wed May 2 09:30:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCFDC21E802A for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 09:30:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0fHaxknAtf0n for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 09:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A0E21E801E for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 09:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q42DWXOb042912 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 09:32:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 12:30:06 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120502040251.4278.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FA14C57.8050608@vande-walle.eu> In-Reply-To: <4FA14C57.8050608@vande-walle.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 16:30:14 -0000 > > This begs a question. Being rather new here, I would like to know if the IETF has a process in place for WGs to obtain independent legal guidance, rather than just engineers playing at being lawyers ? it is sufficient to for the specification to support a scoping mechanism which may be mapped to jurisdictional bounds on any of connection formation, query, and response data. note that historically, attempts to "fix" rfc954 have been had the feature (or flaw) of asserting that no scope other than global was necessary or sufficient, though ad hoc limitations on endpoints and rates of query have been broadly adopted, and one or more limitations on response data are contained in a registry contract with the party currently executing the iana contract. -e From francisco.arias@icann.org Thu May 3 16:56:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E946A11E807F for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 16:56:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ozHsu-X1CZoD for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 16:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6981511E8073 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 16:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Thu, 3 May 2012 16:56:14 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:56:12 -0700 Thread-Topic: Scope and guiding principles (was Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0piFMNwGKFrkoSSdu2UmzoxbGwVQ== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.1.120420 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 23:56:16 -0000 Hello, Steve and I believe we may benefit by agreeing in a few basic principles to guide our work. From this and previous discussions we'd suggest the following guiding principles: 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. (We should specify all the features that are requested, subject to principle #2 below, without requiring them to be implemented. What to implement is a registry/registrar/policy-maker decision outside of the scope of this effort.) 2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented by registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by those interested in extensions to the protocol.) Thoughts? __ Francisco. From francisco.arias@icann.org Thu May 3 17:29:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B47121F8711 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 17:29:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cY68rowb2Kmu for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 17:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA9A21F86FA for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 17:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Thu, 3 May 2012 17:29:28 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 17:29:23 -0700 Thread-Topic: Lookups vs Searches (was Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0pjPb7NG0NSvwlSNSjQG03h3GuhQ== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0A32B19A-16C1-41FF-B8F1-D43C073A6670@hxr.us> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.1.120420 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 00:29:29 -0000 In the context of queries, the complexity starts when we talk about searches as opposed to lookups. Perhaps we should separate those in two different drafts. The lookup specification (draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query) already specifies a simple lookup mechanism for each object. I think it should stay that way. The search specification (no I-D yet) would specify how to do searches that involve multiple search parameters and returns multiple objects (perhaps it should return references to objects). For example we could have something like: /dnrd-ap/search/host/by?ip=3D1.2.3.4 /dnrd-ap/search/domain/by?registrant_id=3DABC123&nameserver=3Dns.foo.bar What search parameters a registry/registrar supports over each object, or whether it implements searches at all, will be a registry/registrar's policy-maker decision. Thoughts? __ Francisco. On 5/1/12 10:19 AM, "Andy Newton" wrote: > >On May 1, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Dave Piscitello wrote: > >> So we're clear, this increases the likelihood that other >>implementations than registry/registrar might extend the protocol in >>non-uniform manners. Would be nice to avoid but I'm not going to fall on >>my sword on this issue in this working group. > >Nobody knows if it increases the likelihood, but the probability of >protocol extensions is there any way. If we attempt to throw every >feature into the protocol now in fear of not being able to add extensions >later, then it is gonna be really difficult to get the first revision out >the door and thus will validate the fears of some of the critics of this >work. > >Maybe we should keep a list of features desired but not for the first >pass. Often the more complex use cases are clarified after an initial go >round with the base features. > >-andy >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Thu May 3 18:06:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0E711E808C for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.636 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.636 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x05xD4G9+BlQ for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blues.viagenie.ca (blues.viagenie.ca [66.228.45.110]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9699111E8073 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mb.lan (modemcable180.211-203-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.203.211.180]) by blues.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D38E1C282; Thu, 3 May 2012 21:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 20:58:11 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3B6B5369-92BB-4B94-8083-437FD06BE160@viagenie.ca> References: To: Francisco Arias X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 01:06:05 -0000 Le 2012-05-03 =E0 19:56, Francisco Arias a =E9crit : > Hello, >=20 > Steve and I believe we may benefit by agreeing in a few basic = principles > to guide our work. =46rom this and previous discussions we'd suggest = the > following guiding principles: >=20 > 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. (We = should > specify all the features that are requested, subject to principle #2 > below, without requiring them to be implemented. What to implement is = a > registry/registrar/policy-maker decision outside of the scope of this > effort.) that is essentially what Wendy Seltzer said at the mic during last IETF. = And it seems appropriate (to me). >=20 > 2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented = by > registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by those > interested in extensions to the protocol.) over design is often not good. >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 make sense to me. Marc. > __ >=20 > Francisco. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu May 3 18:48:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A3F911E8085 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:48:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DJdAYe+aVzL8 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFC4F11E8073 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q43MoIWm001630; Thu, 3 May 2012 18:50:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FA3355A.6080301@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 21:48:10 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wendy Seltzer Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 01:48:18 -0000 On 5/3/12 7:56 PM, Francisco Arias wrote: > 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. in so far as that result scales, sure. let us suppose some proposal is that queries may originate from any routed address, at any rate (in effect, the current sla/tos for some entities). this doesn't scale, and various address and rate limiting schemes are in production. the auth-optional policy (ok, so it is a auth-prohibited policy) current has created an interoperable mess in the names playpen. could we try not to repeat what we know isn't working now? -e ps: wendy, your comments at the last meeting were just cited, you may want to read some back traffic. From peter@denic.de Fri May 4 01:57:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E40321F85F2 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 01:57:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mpZJaCpsX5RL for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 01:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (office.denic.de [IPv6:2a02:568:122:16:1::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88AA521F8649 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 01:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de ([10.122.64.128]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1SQEKH-0001TS-Be; Fri, 04 May 2012 10:57:21 +0200 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1SQEKH-0003re-87; Fri, 04 May 2012 10:57:21 +0200 Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:57:21 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120504085721.GB4152@x27.adm.denic.de> Mail-Followup-To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 08:57:24 -0000 On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 04:56:12PM -0700, Francisco Arias wrote: > 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. (We should > specify all the features that are requested, subject to principle #2 if only the boundary was that sharp. ("now that we have this nice specification of the Guillotine, we really should do something with the self sharpening blades ...") > 2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented by > registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by those > interested in extensions to the protocol.) Limiting scope makes sense, but where's the threshold? At least one? The "majority"? Is the ICANN/gTLD world what counts? -Peter From dave.piscitello@icann.org Fri May 4 06:04:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F97321F869E for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:04:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Px3l9xq4YEkL for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725CE21F85D3 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:04:41 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: Peter Koch Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 06:04:37 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0p9nelfRrAkj5uQiSYGvVCiU46dw== Message-ID: <48B9F4CC-20AC-4C42-A4D5-D484C985E8E5@icann.org> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120504085721.GB4152@x27.adm.denic.de> In-Reply-To: <20120504085721.GB4152@x27.adm.denic.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-38--800289270"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:04:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail-38--800289270 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm reminded of the Pirate's Code (Pirates of the Caribbean): "There more like guidelines". If I understand the original suggestion, we want a successor that has = the features required and implemented today by registries and = registrars. And we want extensibility to accommodate features that may = be required in the future or are implemented by folks other than = registries/registrars implement today. The line doesn't have to be sharply defined in the guidelines. Does anyone doubt that the parties to this list won't serve as = satisfactory filters to assure that self-sharpening blades don't work = their way into the drafts? This said, I'm OK with proceeding as suggested.=20 On May 4, 2012, at 4:57 AM, Peter Koch wrote: > On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 04:56:12PM -0700, Francisco Arias wrote: >=20 >> 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. (We = should >> specify all the features that are requested, subject to principle #2 >=20 > if only the boundary was that sharp. ("now that we have this nice > specification of the Guillotine, we really should do something with = the > self sharpening blades ...") >=20 >> 2. We MUST only specify features that are already = required/implemented by >> registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by = those >> interested in extensions to the protocol.) >=20 > Limiting scope makes sense, but where's the threshold? At least one? = The "majority"? > Is the ICANN/gTLD world what counts? >=20 > -Peter > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail-38--800289270 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINxzCCBsIw ggWqoAMCAQICEAoE3yF0XU0rjOozcgUAUOkwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwZTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMx FTATBgNVBAoTDERpZ2lDZXJ0IEluYzEZMBcGA1UECxMQd3d3LmRpZ2ljZXJ0LmNvbTEkMCIGA1UE AxMbRGlnaUNlcnQgQXNzdXJlZCBJRCBSb290IENBMB4XDTA2MTExMDAwMDAwMFoXDTIxMTExMDAw MDAwMFowYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFTATBgNVBAoTDERpZ2lDZXJ0IEluYzEZMBcGA1UECxMQd3d3 LmRpZ2ljZXJ0LmNvbTEhMB8GA1UEAxMYRGlnaUNlcnQgQXNzdXJlZCBJRCBDQS0xMIIBIjANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA6IItmfnKwkKVpYBzQHDSnlZUXKnE0kEGj8kz/E1FkVyB 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AQUABIIBAJWxydRHhHpP5Pzg2gtZ6NT6V2MeZOxQ9gvpBEEN1VGmOO+qxqHj7b2gJPxwunh0KFvL sinY37VojqPv/cWn6IUa3euaSfmqDyiPmewQNTbD/3Tqy3ZxQGBqXG1vozSMOza74IM6QyBiUiXv 4UgIsvVR946SCOPftX68I741aCsilNulPE1Gq2i5B/8Q1fmuz7Sm9tsDINLIMaoa7e7zATrn+2Dp OnPESZfrLWzRhWerx8vUzfs/invmSTvifEaq3OOFBSFwu+P3dX0kOCki7pm2DsPbfV95qgVbEyKj 4u6DkQap3s1DF1Cz66mXM00ywVNulM6T8tD7UYms9NUFlDwAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail-38--800289270-- From gavin.brown@centralnic.com Fri May 4 06:08:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C495F21F85E4 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gSVKiHaDIJ38 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.centralnic.com (smtp.centralnic.com [193.105.170.131]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DFD21F85A8 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gavins-iMac.local (82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net [82.68.174.118]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.centralnic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F45712DBD; Fri, 4 May 2012 13:07:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FA3D4AE.8070102@centralnic.com> Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:07:58 +0100 From: Gavin Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francisco Arias References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:08:00 -0000 On 04/05/2012 01:29, Francisco Arias wrote: > In the context of queries, the complexity starts when we talk about > searches as opposed to lookups. Perhaps we should separate those in two > different drafts. I think this distinction is very important and I support the idea of having a separate drafts to cover each scenario. G. -- Gavin Brown Chief Technology Officer CentralNic Ltd Innovative, Reliable and Flexible Registry Services for ccTLD, gTLD and private domain name registries https://www.centralnic.com/ CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. From msk@cloudmark.com Fri May 4 06:33:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DBA21F86E2 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:33:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.624 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.624 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w-WpgCZnJduQ for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cloudmark.com (cmgw1.cloudmark.com [208.83.136.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F8721F86D5 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com ([72.5.239.25]) by mail.cloudmark.com with bizsmtp id 5pZw1j0020ZaKgw01pZwMZ; Fri, 04 May 2012 06:33:56 -0700 X-CMAE-Match: 0 X-CMAE-Score: 0.00 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=Xth4yC59 c=1 sm=1 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:17 a=ldJM1g7oyCcA:10 a=cIfftXLV_isA:10 a=zutiEJmiVI4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=fZa_VbU_MVPQ_Ii37BcA:9 a=g3nbLYVPWSGVCTMl0LUA:7 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:117 Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2524:76b6:a865:539c%10]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:33:30 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) Thread-Index: AQHNKYhU9hG9JbAMAUyQ2cDPern63pa5oVRw Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:33:30 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392810E14A@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [67.160.203.60] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudmark.com; s=default; t=1336138436; bh=GRpKvNZLu5mvWOSXeaEabUW2Dsk9Hli1k15m2cSsxEU=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=F5a3dp5RTe5hDXkI5hWWNmJr6tXjwV/1U2pqkIIV5BV/P0hYcFcPb1GB6PXWaCz5h mVN6WJ1zouqhMVzoFNFRH1yjR8O8KIo78S1KPYj0kOkY38QXSy4jqV3noy2AeoGlc4 poiN825h1G5ioQatNP36KCBuPE/i9ZdUl3E0P3EU= Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:33:32 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Francisco Arias > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:56 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft= -hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) >=20 > 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. (We > should specify all the features that are requested, subject to > principle #2 below, without requiring them to be implemented. What to > implement is a registry/registrar/policy-maker decision outside of the > scope of this > effort.) >=20 > 2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented > by registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by > those interested in extensions to the protocol.) These make sense from a specification standpoint. Where we need to be care= ful is that if such limitations end up being complete (i.e., no extensions = to the current query model are ever implemented), then it still has to have= been worthwhile to both clients and servers. -MSK From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Fri May 4 06:35:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3B921F86F6 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:35:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.034, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bKUpA8Mtagjw for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blues.viagenie.ca (blues.viagenie.ca [66.228.45.110]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DA221F86E2 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mb.lan (modemcable180.211-203-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.203.211.180]) by blues.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F27661C273; Fri, 4 May 2012 09:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392810E14A@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 09:35:45 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <02584138-9673-4466-8DE3-83857C35E9AC@viagenie.ca> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392810E14A@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:35:48 -0000 Le 2012-05-04 =E0 09:33, Murray S. Kucherawy a =E9crit : >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Francisco Arias >> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:56 PM >> To: weirds@ietf.org >> Subject: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: = draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) >>=20 >> 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. (We >> should specify all the features that are requested, subject to >> principle #2 below, without requiring them to be implemented. What to >> implement is a registry/registrar/policy-maker decision outside of = the >> scope of this >> effort.) >>=20 >> 2. We MUST only specify features that are already = required/implemented >> by registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by >> those interested in extensions to the protocol.) >=20 > These make sense from a specification standpoint. Where we need to be = careful is that if such limitations end up being complete (i.e., no = extensions to the current query model are ever implemented), then it = still has to have been worthwhile to both clients and servers. right. the principles put foreword seems fine. However, the devil is in = the details=85 Marc. >=20 > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From aservin@lacnic.net Fri May 4 06:42:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7611421F86D0 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:42:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wMsjQwVGQYxF for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAD521F8692 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:94e:ee30:6e4f:a151] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:94e:ee30:6e4f:a151]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41022308447; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:42:38 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <4FA3D4AE.8070102@centralnic.com> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:42:26 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <30B1C9CF-20C3-4087-A88B-4BEB3C130E52@lacnic.net> References: <4FA3D4AE.8070102@centralnic.com> To: Gavin Brown X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:42:33 -0000 As said, they are two different problems and should be deal = differently IMHO. I support the idea of having the search functionality in another = document. Regards, as On 4 May 2012, at 10:07, Gavin Brown wrote: > On 04/05/2012 01:29, Francisco Arias wrote: >> In the context of queries, the complexity starts when we talk about >> searches as opposed to lookups. Perhaps we should separate those in = two >> different drafts. >=20 > I think this distinction is very important and I support the idea of > having a separate drafts to cover each scenario. >=20 > G. >=20 > --=20 > Gavin Brown > Chief Technology Officer > CentralNic Ltd > Innovative, Reliable and Flexible Registry Services > for ccTLD, gTLD and private domain name registries > https://www.centralnic.com/ >=20 > CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with = company > number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From aservin@lacnic.net Fri May 4 06:44:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A258A21F8692 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:44:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0qF0OHcPajAt for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16EC21F8680 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:94e:ee30:6e4f:a151] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:94e:ee30:6e4f:a151]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840B730846E; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:44:09 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:43:58 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Francisco Arias X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:44:02 -0000 As guidelines not written in stone I am ok with them. I'll be happier having a SHOULD in the second one but I am not = opposed to the current form. Regards, as On 3 May 2012, at 20:56, Francisco Arias wrote: > Hello, >=20 > Steve and I believe we may benefit by agreeing in a few basic = principles > to guide our work. =46rom this and previous discussions we'd suggest = the > following guiding principles: >=20 > 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. (We = should > specify all the features that are requested, subject to principle #2 > below, without requiring them to be implemented. What to implement is = a > registry/registrar/policy-maker decision outside of the scope of this > effort.) >=20 > 2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented = by > registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by those > interested in extensions to the protocol.) >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 > __ >=20 > Francisco. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From shollenbeck@verisign.com Fri May 4 07:24:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B8421F8685 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:24:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pQLASSc6LUry for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og108.obsmtp.com (exprod6og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.21]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BA421F8692 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob108.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT6Pma7v9gw9d7scXHqnVhmSaf8qg97pW@postini.com; Fri, 04 May 2012 07:24:02 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q44ENZjT013408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2012 10:23:35 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:23:35 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Francisco Arias , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Query Parameters Thread-Index: AQHNKgF9iBLaLs6M0kiZ9rK73MFc7g== Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 14:23:35 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:24:04 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Francisco Arias > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 7:56 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: > draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) [snip] >=20 > 2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented > by > registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by those > interested in extensions to the protocol.) I'm definitely in favor of this idea. Not supporting current use cases will= have a negative impact on adoption. It would be very helpful to identify the query parameters that registries a= nd registrars currently support. As a start, here's what we currently suppo= rt at Verisign for lookups: Domain: by domain name (example.com) Name server: by host name (ns1.example.com) and by IP address (v4 and v6 te= xt format) Registrar: by registrar name (text string case insensitive match) and by re= gistrar ID Contact: by EPP contact ID and by EPP ROID Scott From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Fri May 4 07:33:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D22C21F875B for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:33:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AFrmpieY+rJC for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8376B21F85B9 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:33:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=hBpAkr4s0csDEVKNILtqwJZag42yl2+ShjF3Rz1L6U2ZdOeLHRHVp9wb 3KsJxnaj8cVY1Iz+CeisZaBvQdtacnDnPJgMr/c1OZ901fSTZ4EwcOJIH jO2CFf4neej3XUg; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1336142031; x=1367678031; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20Query=20Parameters|Date:=20F ri,=204=20May=202012=2014:33:46=20+0000|Message-ID:=20|To:=20 "Hollenbeck,=20Scott"=20|CC:=20 "weirds@ietf.org"=20|MIME-Version:=201.0 |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |Content-ID:=20 |In-Reply-To:=20<831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6 @BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>|References:=20<4FA1610E .3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net>=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20<831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A71 2B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>; bh=mHwsx5ATK8Jha75bvnXjYH77Zra18JDdmIY5dtzDiGY=; b=L0MOpRLitof5XP+j9U3svcwLZb3tzmb6Tf8hq6i1bUyIS70AUUgaA4P/ K4u+r/jqzSSuD55UlRqG+L94mlPTfc93PBGq+FY6hizf0yjRCDWxj+Z8U DGkj/1cW85LfFg0; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,531,1330905600"; d="scan'208";a="40185772" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 04 May 2012 15:33:48 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Fri, 4 May 2012 15:33:47 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Query Parameters Thread-Index: AQHNKgLpaz2G5aQq1EW3Aio/k2gx0A== Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 14:33:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:33:52 -0000 On 4 May 2012, at 15:23, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > Domain: by domain name (example.com) > Name server: by host name (ns1.example.com) and by IP address (v4 and v6 = text format) > Registrar: by registrar name (text string case insensitive match) and by = registrar ID > Contact: by EPP contact ID and by EPP ROID .uk only supports "domain: by domain name". Ray From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Fri May 4 07:35:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 933C021F875B for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:35:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IGr8Ir0TnA63 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2D3421F864D for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q44BbVIg043141 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:37:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FA3E933.4070502@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 10:35:31 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120504085721.GB4152@x27.adm.denic.de> <48B9F4CC-20AC-4C42-A4D5-D484C985E8E5@icann.org> In-Reply-To: <48B9F4CC-20AC-4C42-A4D5-D484C985E8E5@icann.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:35:38 -0000 On 5/4/12 9:04 AM, Dave Piscitello wrote: > "There more like guidelines". rfc954, page 1, paragraph 4: "DCA requests that each individual with a directory on an ARPANET or MILNET host, who is capable of passing traffic across the DoD Internet, be registered in the NIC WHOIS Database. MILNET TAC users must be registered in the database." the document was pre-upper-case-must, and the dca "request" was the funding and contract managing agency. non-compliance was remarkably rare, and due to policy constraints external to 954, use of directories on hosts attached to nets 26 and 10 excited no interest in civilian law and/or rights enforcements. "guidelines" can't be standards track. a spec that substantively narrows the existing, and reduces the necessity for new, divergence in data models, access and authentication mechanisms, and data exchange formats, in globally unique endpoint identifier registries may be advisory (and obviously compelled by some contracting regime for some set of registries), and it may also be required. the latter may be preferable to the former, so long as it remains broadly applicable and not marred by errors of restriction of applicable scope. -e From andy@arin.net Fri May 4 07:54:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD8F21F8776 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:54:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nCk9bvVoFoan for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC2421F8760 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 630BF21366F; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C462213666; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:27 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:45 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) Thread-Index: AQHNKfbxi8VIRhBDd0aWfzTG6uztMJa55psAgAASroA= Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 14:54:44 +0000 Message-ID: <15161747-77F2-478D-B6C9-F9E281659406@arin.net> References: <4FA3D4AE.8070102@centralnic.com> <30B1C9CF-20C3-4087-A88B-4BEB3C130E52@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <30B1C9CF-20C3-4087-A88B-4BEB3C130E52@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:54:47 -0000 On May 4, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > As said, they are two different problems and should be deal differently = IMHO. >=20 > I support the idea of having the search functionality in another documen= t. +1. -andy= From andy@arin.net Fri May 4 07:54:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DE921F85B5 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:54:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1CPuQoMKZdVa for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A0521F8795 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id C718B164FF2; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76509164FE8; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:53:57 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:45 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Francisco Arias Thread-Topic: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) Thread-Index: AQHNKYhec9ONaCxxKkKDPHUQDq3cMJa5+noA Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 14:54:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:54:50 -0000 On May 3, 2012, at 7:56 PM, Francisco Arias wrote: > 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. (We should > specify all the features that are requested, subject to principle #2 > below, without requiring them to be implemented. What to implement is a > registry/registrar/policy-maker decision outside of the scope of this > effort.) >=20 > 2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented by > registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by those > interested in extensions to the protocol.) >=20 > Thoughts? I agree. -andy From andy@arin.net Fri May 4 07:59:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A1321F877A for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:59:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lb4q-iaBcwsU for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D13721F8777 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 07:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 3D96B21366F; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18E5213666; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:59:08 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:59:57 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Query Parameters Thread-Index: AQHNKgGSpYXNrU2Cw0OxCUJHOuJc4Ja5/C0A Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 14:59:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA89753-5151-46B2-A0C7-2E84C7283265@arin.net> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7C8C536F1E004E44921D2D95DC027349@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:59:59 -0000 On May 4, 2012, at 10:23 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > It would be very helpful to identify the query parameters that registries= and registrars currently support. As a start, here's what we currently sup= port at Verisign for lookups: >=20 > Domain: by domain name (example.com) > Name server: by host name (ns1.example.com) and by IP address (v4 and v6 = text format) > Registrar: by registrar name (text string case insensitive match) and by = registrar ID > Contact: by EPP contact ID and by EPP ROID Given Francisco's suggestion, would it be worth teasing each of these out i= nto separate drafts? That way ICANN can say that it's regulated registries = support must support RFC 1, RFC 2, RFC 3, while other registries can simply= say "we support RFC 1 and RFC 3". Or maybe put the domain name lookup in i= ts own draft and the rest in a draft intended as a collection of the other = things ICANN registries must do. Just a thought. No matter what, I think registrar-by-name should be a separate draft as it = seems like a search and not a lookup. -andy= From lespinoz@nic.cr Fri May 4 08:09:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E538F21F872D for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:09:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e2Y3Pa77tELd for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asterix.crnet.cr (asterix.crnet.cr [200.107.82.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C88421F8717 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by asterix.crnet.cr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8749C316A0A3 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 09:08:55 -0600 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at nic.cr Received: from asterix.crnet.cr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (asterix.crnet.cr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id okeTcj6WXCjs for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 09:08:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.1.71] (unknown [201.201.230.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by asterix.crnet.cr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD81316A080 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 09:08:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Luis Diego Espinoza S." Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D221B5F4-40AC-4984-8F94-5DDBFA963C4F" Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 09:08:50 -0600 In-Reply-To: <30B1C9CF-20C3-4087-A88B-4BEB3C130E52@lacnic.net> To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4FA3D4AE.8070102@centralnic.com> <30B1C9CF-20C3-4087-A88B-4BEB3C130E52@lacnic.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Subject: Re: [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 15:09:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D221B5F4-40AC-4984-8F94-5DDBFA963C4F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +1 On May 4, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > As said, they are two different problems and should be deal = differently IMHO. >=20 > I support the idea of having the search functionality in another = document. >=20 > Regards, > as >=20 > On 4 May 2012, at 10:07, Gavin Brown wrote: >=20 >> On 04/05/2012 01:29, Francisco Arias wrote: >>> In the context of queries, the complexity starts when we talk about >>> searches as opposed to lookups. Perhaps we should separate those in = two >>> different drafts. >>=20 >> I think this distinction is very important and I support the idea of >> having a separate drafts to cover each scenario. >>=20 >> G. >>=20 >> --=20 >> Gavin Brown >> Chief Technology Officer >> CentralNic Ltd >> Innovative, Reliable and Flexible Registry Services >> for ccTLD, gTLD and private domain name registries >> https://www.centralnic.com/ >>=20 >> CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with = company >> number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --=20 Luis D. Espinoza Chief Technology Officer NIC-Internet Costa Rica National Academy of Science San Jose, Costa Rica Cel: +506.8850.9018 Tel: +506.2280.6453 Tel/fax: +506.2280.5361 Skype: lespinoz --Apple-Mail=_D221B5F4-40AC-4984-8F94-5DDBFA963C4F Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_493200B3-682D-43C2-B289-ED4F5196E0F0" --Apple-Mail=_493200B3-682D-43C2-B289-ED4F5196E0F0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

As said, they are two different = problems and should be deal differently IMHO.

I support = the idea of having the search functionality in another = document.

Regards,
as

On 4 May 2012, at 10:07, Gavin = Brown wrote:

On 04/05/2012 01:29, = Francisco Arias wrote:
In the context of queries, the = complexity starts when we talk = about
searches as opposed to lookups. Perhaps we should separate = those in two
different = drafts.

I think this = distinction is very important and I support the idea = of
having a separate drafts to = cover each scenario.

G.

-- =
Gavin = Brown
Chief Technology = Officer
CentralNic = Ltd
Innovative, Reliable and = Flexible Registry Services
for = ccTLD, gTLD and private domain name = registries
https://www.centralnic.com/

CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and = Wales with company
number = 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R = 6AR.
_______________________________________________
weirds mailing = list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/weirds

_________________________= ______________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds

Luis D. Espinoza
Chief Technology Officer
NIC-Internet Costa Rica
San Jose, Costa Rica
Cel:   +506.8850.9018
Tel/fax: +506.2280.5361
Skype: = lespinoz


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ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Fri May 4 08:09:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF35121F872D for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:09:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QN8PJdilyEHp for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3799E21F85AC for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q44CBIo0043349 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:11:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FA3F11E.6000507@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 11:09:18 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 15:09:26 -0000 On 5/4/12 10:23 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > It would be very helpful to identify the query parameters that registries and registrars currently support. c: have you got any jacks? s: go fish. in the conficker .C scenario, it was useful to ask "have you got any of {enumerated set of strings}?" as the set was algorithmically generated, the query could have been "if you have, or when you have, an instance of an algorithm of interest registered, or presented to be registered, do something." this was done out of band, manually. for instances of distributed systems with automated rendezvous point generation, for which the system can be caused to fail, or at least stall on resource wait, a query on a static enumerated identifier set, or an algorithm to produce a dynamic enumerated identifier set, appears (to me) to be useful, in theory. there are a bunch more use cases to scratch out, from names-containing-nike to addresses-in-botc&c-block, etc. scott's got an idea, document what exists. i've another. document what is advisable for operators (this assumes that some operators will adopt advice, which in turn assumes that some operators will use platform resources other than those which now exist) for their use case. as no one is asking complex questions of gtld registries with restrictions on registrations, e.g., aero, coop, museum, cat, and perhaps others, there isn't a lot of search term relevant advice to offer. as lots of queries are generated daily asking complex questions of gtld registries with no restrictions on registrations, e.g., com, net, org, biz, info, and perhaps others, there is some search term relevant advice to offer. -e From shollenbeck@verisign.com Fri May 4 08:15:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D8E21F85F6 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MUyjG9b6CQQI for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og110.obsmtp.com (exprod6og110.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E31821F8606 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob110.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT6PyZkbbLjoL/p2RxIQVpmqzcl3tkcNY@postini.com; Fri, 04 May 2012 08:15:14 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q44FEgve015794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2012 11:14:42 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:14:42 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton Thread-Topic: [weirds] Query Parameters Thread-Index: AQHNKgGSEDAMQBqSM06ySQHZU5G3Ipa5/C0A//+/QGA= Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 15:14:41 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F8B1F@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <3CA89753-5151-46B2-A0C7-2E84C7283265@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <3CA89753-5151-46B2-A0C7-2E84C7283265@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 15:15:15 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Newton [mailto:andy@arin.net] > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:00 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: Francisco Arias; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters >=20 >=20 > On May 4, 2012, at 10:23 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >=20 > > It would be very helpful to identify the query parameters that > registries and registrars currently support. As a start, here's what we > currently support at Verisign for lookups: > > > > Domain: by domain name (example.com) > > Name server: by host name (ns1.example.com) and by IP address (v4 and > v6 text format) > > Registrar: by registrar name (text string case insensitive match) and > by registrar ID > > Contact: by EPP contact ID and by EPP ROID >=20 > Given Francisco's suggestion, would it be worth teasing each of these > out into separate drafts? That way ICANN can say that it's regulated > registries support must support RFC 1, RFC 2, RFC 3, while other > registries can simply say "we support RFC 1 and RFC 3". Or maybe put > the domain name lookup in its own draft and the rest in a draft > intended as a collection of the other things ICANN registries must do. > Just a thought. Maybe, I'm not sure. If I'm writing client code I would probably want to su= pport as many query parameters as possible to work with as many servers as = possible, and having all client query parameters specified in one document = would probably be easier than having to worry about multiple documents. A s= erver operator that doesn't support a particular type of query can just ret= urn an appropriate HTTP response. I guess I'm saying that I don't think we should be writing clients on a per= -registry basis. Scott From andy@arin.net Fri May 4 08:54:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CDE021F86C2 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:54:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fdcjZQoLstj4 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6092121F8633 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 08:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 1468F213675; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1DBB213669; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:54:20 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:54:39 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Query Parameters Thread-Index: AQHNKgGSpYXNrU2Cw0OxCUJHOuJc4Ja5/C0AgAAEH4CAAAsqAA== Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 15:54:38 +0000 Message-ID: <2AFB1EFC-428B-4567-9A60-1E7D8CF9FDAB@arin.net> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <3CA89753-5151-46B2-A0C7-2E84C7283265@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F8B1F@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F8B1F@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <10F1BD523D63ED4C9C00F4AE6ECFEAC8@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 15:54:48 -0000 On May 4, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > Maybe, I'm not sure. If I'm writing client code I would probably want to = support as many query parameters as possible to work with as many servers a= s possible, and having all client query parameters specified in one documen= t would probably be easier than having to worry about multiple documents. A= server operator that doesn't support a particular type of query can just r= eturn an appropriate HTTP response. >=20 > I guess I'm saying that I don't think we should be writing clients on a p= er-registry basis. Good point. I still agree with Francisco's idea of separating search drafts= out. Perhaps we should think about an Informational that describes everything an= d references all the drafts. I think the original URN working group did thi= s. -andy= From shollenbeck@verisign.com Fri May 4 09:26:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EF121F85DB for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 09:26:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OZnM3YX6QjAk for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 09:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og103.obsmtp.com (exprod6og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.185]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BFB021F85A8 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 09:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob103.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT6QDMn3zP0+GtOCsjLiLx7UtQ2nGwBEl@postini.com; Fri, 04 May 2012 09:26:28 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q44GQMgL015504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2012 12:26:22 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 12:26:22 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton Thread-Topic: [weirds] Query Parameters Thread-Index: AQHNKgGSpYXNrU2Cw0OxCUJHOuJc4Ja5/C0AgAAEH4CAAAsqAP//xWlQ Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:26:20 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F8BB0@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <3CA89753-5151-46B2-A0C7-2E84C7283265@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F8B1F@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <2AFB1EFC-428B-4567-9A60-1E7D8CF9FDAB@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <2AFB1EFC-428B-4567-9A60-1E7D8CF9FDAB@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 16:26:29 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Newton [mailto:andy@arin.net] > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:55 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters >=20 >=20 > On May 4, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >=20 > > Maybe, I'm not sure. If I'm writing client code I would probably want > to support as many query parameters as possible to work with as many > servers as possible, and having all client query parameters specified > in one document would probably be easier than having to worry about > multiple documents. A server operator that doesn't support a particular > type of query can just return an appropriate HTTP response. > > > > I guess I'm saying that I don't think we should be writing clients on > a per-registry basis. >=20 > Good point. I still agree with Francisco's idea of separating search > drafts out. I do, too. > Perhaps we should think about an Informational that describes > everything and references all the drafts. I think the original URN > working group did this. That sounds like a good idea. Scott From hsalgado@nic.cl Fri May 4 10:12:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB6721F85C3 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:12:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGKqgCrXYpdv for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cl (mail.nic.cl [200.1.123.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E833D21F85C0 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C5BCC82AB for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 13:12:01 -0400 (CLT) Received: from vulcano.intra.nic.cl (vulcano.intra.nic.cl [172.30.10.58]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8199CCC8297 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 13:12:01 -0400 (CLT) Message-ID: <4FA40DE1.20607@nic.cl> Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:12:01 -0400 From: Hugo Salgado User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 OpenPGP: id=B525FA6E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP on Fri May 4 13:12:01 2012 -0400 (CLT) Subject: Re: [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 17:12:05 -0000 In the .CL case, we as a registry allow approximate search queries in the domain name, and were thinking in something like /dnrd-ap/search/domain/by?name=;match=begining as we have 3 types of matching: begining (^query*), ending (*query$) and in-between (*query*). We know this is something unusual, so it's something we can cope with a protocol extension. Hugo On 05/03/2012 08:29 PM, Francisco Arias wrote: > In the context of queries, the complexity starts when we talk about > searches as opposed to lookups. Perhaps we should separate those in two > different drafts. > > The lookup specification (draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query) already > specifies a simple lookup mechanism for each object. I think it should > stay that way. > > The search specification (no I-D yet) would specify how to do searches > that involve multiple search parameters and returns multiple objects > (perhaps it should return references to objects). For example we could > have something like: > > /dnrd-ap/search/host/by?ip=1.2.3.4 > /dnrd-ap/search/domain/by?registrant_id=ABC123&nameserver=ns.foo.bar > > What search parameters a registry/registrar supports over each object, or > whether it implements searches at all, will be a registry/registrar's > policy-maker decision. > > Thoughts? > > > __ > > Francisco. > > > > > > On 5/1/12 10:19 AM, "Andy Newton" wrote: > >> >> On May 1, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Dave Piscitello wrote: >> >>> So we're clear, this increases the likelihood that other >>> implementations than registry/registrar might extend the protocol in >>> non-uniform manners. Would be nice to avoid but I'm not going to fall on >>> my sword on this issue in this working group. >> >> Nobody knows if it increases the likelihood, but the probability of >> protocol extensions is there any way. If we attempt to throw every >> feature into the protocol now in fear of not being able to add extensions >> later, then it is gonna be really difficult to get the first revision out >> the door and thus will validate the fears of some of the critics of this >> work. >> >> Maybe we should keep a list of features desired but not for the first >> pass. Often the more complex use cases are clarified after an initial go >> round with the base features. >> >> -andy >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > From johnl@iecc.com Fri May 4 10:18:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBD821F8620 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:18:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.196, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hk2pG2JXOS4n for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C97D21F861F for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 95559 invoked from network); 4 May 2012 17:18:09 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 4 May 2012 17:18:09 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fa40f51.xn--hew.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=oK6JBodKF2MlilA0HG0nYTbOdHRhuacGeyW4roOiTJ4=; b=TxoX6Ut+9S7Hz0+PnGk/YIIwCuEPlFfWnAbjJrggka/p9vAwHht64WupTvC71YUzzbV/71HwU/sBgdhyM6bXKaCpBZluAGLCGmGDFFUbnKLhytRr/9d/wESfBc3NIJOqlf6TP2AMOzFkMH04RJwpKPzEWlA0SkX+Ts9bHMCJv28= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 4 May 2012 17:17:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20120504171747.13750.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 17:18:12 -0000 >> 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. Yes. It is in the nature of standards that they can't force anyone to do anything, just tell people how to interoperate. >> 2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented by >> registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by those >> interested in extensions to the protocol.) Yes. It would be fine to keep a laundry list of features that someone would like to add eventually but don't currently qualify. R's, John From johnl@iecc.com Fri May 4 10:19:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F2521F8620 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:19:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OMoPwZnp6LnM for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B83821F861F for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 95932 invoked from network); 4 May 2012 17:19:52 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 4 May 2012 17:19:52 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fa40fb8.xn--i8sz2z.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=WVW+MIXl/FDWdiewWzk9QxKBTJc+15t1eEr+mmKc/8E=; b=AGACUKMPNDOKo4tmbM6AaFgRyWkaMnG7By1qsKTb5CuKw6bS5FDbiGIMBCz+eRuDuu81Vu5Av1YsOknCZzYKaxrRngx2LGzlzV1ZMSnsWArSEg6khbXgphNHMLOQvrKmtMMWAlpniFozRY9Hs3F2bHxeF/SLdcv0gj+TCGquWTs= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 4 May 2012 17:19:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20120504171930.13823.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392810E14A@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 17:19:54 -0000 >These make sense from a specification standpoint. Where we need to be careful is that if such >limitations end up being complete (i.e., no extensions to the current query model are ever >implemented), then it still has to have been worthwhile to both clients and servers. If it provides what the current WHOIS is supposed to provide, but with consistent query syntax and machine parsable results, that would be plenty worthwhile. R's, John From johnl@iecc.com Fri May 4 10:54:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B1D21F8570 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.174 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.174 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id elIkHTVxXb24 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4616A21F8562 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 10:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2376 invoked from network); 4 May 2012 17:54:18 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 4 May 2012 17:54:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fa417c9.xn--hew.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=zEC7h4oE8whXEb3xDHzDpF0z0KXhFC+CPPnHTxR8GjA=; b=SkDs3nzyxU7i9inB6cgnGKeyWcLJxlb/MUbODhCulY63V3bFURBNeMr233Ll5w4BRdQaFPJHCxvDLXplgx76e0J3f8SS2bRaAGmVcSEk7XWf95si9ogbF1yIN2EIxJUOamQ+j7nawe3AiD3gPBkKqylZHUa/kllaIFNamj4bI24= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 4 May 2012 17:53:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20120504175355.15073.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F8B1F@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 17:54:27 -0000 >> Given Francisco's suggestion, would it be worth teasing each of these >> out into separate drafts? No, definitely not. The draft should say here's how a client asks question X, and the server can either return a response in the presribed format, or an error code that means "I don't know" or "I won't tell you." I don't think it's unreasonable to ask registries to implement the trivial amount of extra code to return don't know responses to queries they don't handle. R's, John From francisco.arias@icann.org Fri May 4 11:20:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A47121F85B9 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:20:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rh+URlBnurCx for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1344F21F859F for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:20:12 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Peter Koch , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:20:10 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0qIost9/0UayptSjO4eo2S0Db5hg== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20120504085721.GB4152@x27.adm.denic.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.1.120420 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 18:20:13 -0000 On 5/4/12 1:57 AM, "Peter Koch" wrote: >>2. We MUST only specify features that are already required/implemented by >>registries/registrars. )Other features can be specified later by those >>interested in extensions to the protocol.) > >Limiting scope makes sense, but where's the threshold? At least one? The >"majority"? >Is the ICANN/gTLD world what counts? At least one. And to clarify, I'm not proposing to do an inventory of all the registries and registrars are doing, but if/when someone comes here and says ABC registry/registrar is doing XYZ. __ Francisco. From francisco.arias@icann.org Fri May 4 11:51:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B1221F847A for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9bhxKXWIsmZI for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520B921F8476 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:11 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Andy Newton , "Hollenbeck, Scott" Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:06 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Query Parameters Thread-Index: Ac0qJt+AgxOPmgyMQYiGMGm0BMUZCw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CA89753-5151-46B2-A0C7-2E84C7283265@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.1.120420 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 18:51:13 -0000 On 5/4/12 7:59 AM, "Andy Newton" wrote: >Given Francisco's suggestion, would it be worth teasing each of these out >into separate drafts? That way ICANN can say that it's regulated >registries support must support RFC 1, RFC 2, RFC 3, while other >registries can simply say "we support RFC 1 and RFC 3". Or maybe put the >domain name lookup in its own draft and the rest in a draft intended as a >collection of the other things ICANN registries must do. Just a thought. Yes, but I thing it goes beyond that. A registry(ar) would say "we support RFC 1 (lookup) and RFC 3 (searches) on the following objects ... using the following elements ..." I'm thinking the searches document should probably simply specify how to do the searches on any single object, using any combination of its respective elements/attributes. But it would be up to each registry(ar) to choose which combination to support. Therefore, as someone else suggested, there has to be a response that signals "search not supported" or something similar. __ Francisco. From steve.sheng@icann.org Fri May 4 11:51:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F7821F85F1 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1IS-gjrfo8L6 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E62C21F85B6 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:37 -0700 From: Steve Sheng To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" , Francisco Arias , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:51:36 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Query Parameters Thread-Index: Ac0qJu+Payx8NLPxT2egcbjUDE7uZw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_CBC96DA61946Asteveshengicannorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 18:51:38 -0000 --_002_CBC96DA61946Asteveshengicannorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 07:23:35 -0700 To: Francisco Arias , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: [weirds] Query Parameters >It would be very helpful to identify the query parameters that registries >and registrars currently support. As a start, here's what we currently >support at Verisign for lookups: > >Domain: by domain name (example.com) >Name server: by host name (ns1.example.com) and by IP address (v4 and v6 >text format) >Registrar: by registrar name (text string case insensitive match) and by >registrar ID >Contact: by EPP contact ID and by EPP ROID > >Scott For each gTLD registry contracts with ICANN, it contain specifications on how a registry is to offer WHOIS service, I surveyed all those specifications (18 gTLD + new gTLD applicant guidebook) yesterday and here is what I found:=20 /domain/ - 100% allow query by the domain name. - 1 offer query by ACE of the domain name. (.CAT) - 1 offer query by domain ID (.CAT) /contact/ - 100% of the thick registries offer query by contact ID - functionality not offered in thin registries - no other searches are allowed =20 /nameserver/ - 100% allow queries by the fully qualified hostname - 100% allow queries by the IP address - 2 allow queries by host id maintained by registry (.CAT, .TEL) /registrar/ - 100% allow queries by registr name. - 3 allows queries by registrar ID (.NAME, .CAT, .TEL) =09 /default/ -domain name is searched. Spreadsheet attached, I hope this would be of some use to the group. Let me know what further work is needed to help make progress. 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA////////////////AAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA --_002_CBC96DA61946Asteveshengicannorg_-- From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Fri May 4 11:54:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29EF21F85F1 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:54:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id knXpsCZ3UvL4 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3625F21F85B6 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q44Fu4T9044406 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:56:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FA425CF.1090607@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:54:07 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 18:54:13 -0000 steve, that was useful work. thanks. -e From andy@arin.net Fri May 4 11:59:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 449DF21F8598 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:59:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qWaJ3weXgaM1 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF3421F8567 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 7600B21366F; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 350BE21360D for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:58:38 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:59:27 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: the future is restful whois Thread-Index: AQHNKigGImLATs7z7k+dLhJ1tcXPoQ== Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 18:59:27 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4530D2DFB34DE34F8B618068739E922F@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] the future is restful whois X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 18:59:35 -0000 Just thought people may want to know this. As of January 2012, queries against ARIN's RESTful Whois system surpassed q= ueries against ARIN's Port 43 Whois system. -andy= From shollenbeck@verisign.com Fri May 4 12:04:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815A121F8470 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 12:04:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZJMw7yPOUYBW for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 12:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og110.obsmtp.com (exprod6og110.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C43321F8438 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 12:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob110.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT6QoE0NANRgr/L/gkrXj15VNSG7aH/Wh@postini.com; Fri, 04 May 2012 12:04:09 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q44J3lvx022675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2012 15:03:47 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 4 May 2012 15:03:46 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Steve Sheng , Francisco Arias , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Query Parameters Thread-Index: Ac0qJu+PpYXNrU2Cw0OxCUJHOuJc4AAAaR8g Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 19:03:46 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F8CE2@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 19:04:10 -0000 Excellent - thanks! I'll use this to update our draft. Scott > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Sheng [mailto:steve.sheng@icann.org] > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 2:52 PM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott; Francisco Arias; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" > Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 07:23:35 -0700 > To: Francisco Arias , "weirds@ietf.org" > > Subject: [weirds] Query Parameters >=20 > >It would be very helpful to identify the query parameters that > >registries and registrars currently support. As a start, here's what > we > >currently support at Verisign for lookups: > > > >Domain: by domain name (example.com) > >Name server: by host name (ns1.example.com) and by IP address (v4 and > >v6 text format) > >Registrar: by registrar name (text string case insensitive match) and > >by registrar ID > >Contact: by EPP contact ID and by EPP ROID > > > >Scott >=20 >=20 > For each gTLD registry contracts with ICANN, it contain specifications > on how a registry is to offer WHOIS service, I surveyed all those > specifications (18 gTLD + new gTLD applicant guidebook) yesterday and > here is what I found: >=20 >=20 > /domain/ - 100% allow query by the domain name. > - 1 offer query by ACE of the domain name. (.CAT) > - 1 offer query by domain ID (.CAT) >=20 > /contact/ - 100% of the thick registries offer query by contact ID > - functionality not offered in thin registries > - no other searches are allowed >=20 >=20 > /nameserver/ - 100% allow queries by the fully qualified hostname > - 100% allow queries by the IP address > - 2 allow queries by host id maintained by registry (.CAT, > .TEL) >=20 > /registrar/ - 100% allow queries by registr name. > - 3 allows queries by registrar ID (.NAME, .CAT, .TEL) >=20 >=20 > /default/ -domain name is searched. >=20 > Spreadsheet attached, I hope this would be of some use to the group. > Let me know what further work is needed to help make progress. >=20 > Kind regards, > Steve From fneves@registro.br Sat May 5 18:32:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2867C21F84D6 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 18:32:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.062 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.062 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.539, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U1AU+BkDCR2x for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 18:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4669421F84D5 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 18:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 13142E04AA; Sat, 5 May 2012 22:32:46 -0300 (BRT) Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 22:32:46 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: "weirds@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20120506013246.GD24985@registro.br> References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 01:32:50 -0000 On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 02:23:35PM +0000, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: ... > Domain: by domain name (example.com) > Name server: by host name (ns1.example.com) and by IP address (v4 and v6 text format) > Registrar: by registrar name (text string case insensitive match) and by registrar ID > Contact: by EPP contact ID and by EPP ROID .br supports, Domain: by domain name (dns.br) Owner: by Public OwnerID returning a list domains Registrar: by registrar ID (P23) Contact: by EPP contact ID (FAN) > Scott Fred From ggm@algebras.org Sat May 5 23:37:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A983311E8074 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 23:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GHl4K038C2js for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 23:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-f42.google.com (mail-wg0-f42.google.com [74.125.82.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968DD11E8072 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 23:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so513034wgb.1 for ; Sat, 05 May 2012 23:37:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=Hk78RA+k75c+21FvmG5v411ZN4mprapShHzZ85KjIk0=; b=SsF8YGEWI26AM0/bAcw60SuKZOdia+4D2T2OrTzh3lxGv4K8WQ2bRZY4zfHgmFzF4S 6GbX0hx8BD9BTumq9eq9YNwHcwN1V5Kd/wJaZNlcvtju3mtReLOzImRn97p+22hRpXhO pLg4oOPHq/pQsJAJM9MnGQcBJCM0F2a/PI+DnucgJkmQQKb/W3pSXmLNHct1PBksh/d+ BS0CpjXih5M+K4IEcgLZPmyM9cDaneGOUBWsciw56WzwKMVGuClsR0aMBHFQdbJo3+ax Ko+QuQ+OEttX70i2+dyWxvRyua48ClOu27Ni+mVpJsy1ssgQyGCELKUPTKOHkOFVOyxS D9Iw== Received: by 10.216.131.223 with SMTP id m73mr7055778wei.75.1336286228134; Sat, 05 May 2012 23:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.9.24] (a229-126.24online.fi. [84.239.229.126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fm1sm11009333wib.10.2012.05.05.23.37.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 05 May 2012 23:37:07 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <8DB0E204-5DDD-42BC-9269-C852AC94AC37@algebras.org> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B176) From: George Michaelson Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 09:39:24 +0300 To: Andy Newton X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmDSzrg1h6B7NN5FNgCEMeWg3O9xXuvecJhuT80S/pcGu7D9kbl2E7RJXbaAuDaltgYPJvl Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] the future is restful whois X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 06:37:10 -0000 Well done. That's a very interesting observation on adoption. Do you have an= y analysis of where the load is coming from? Same as Whois? New ips? Apps? On 04/05/2012, at 9:59 PM, Andy Newton wrote: > Just thought people may want to know this. > As of January 2012, queries against ARIN's RESTful Whois system surpassed q= ueries against ARIN's Port 43 Whois system. >=20 > -andy > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From fobispo@isc.org Sun May 6 11:17:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CE821F84F0 for ; Sun, 6 May 2012 11:17:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LmjyeGZBd6zO for ; Sun, 6 May 2012 11:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABF921F84E6 for ; Sun, 6 May 2012 11:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F538C99B9; Sun, 6 May 2012 18:17:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [149.20.66.30] (unknown [149.20.66.30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7633F216C33; Sun, 6 May 2012 18:17:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 11:17:30 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4FC4C92F-7474-4908-BE90-8B5E2CDD9256@isc.org> References: To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] the future is restful whois X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 18:17:47 -0000 Hi Andy, Would it be possible for you to share some of the statistics? more = specifically User-Agents and how distributed the client base is. Thanks! On May 4, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > Just thought people may want to know this. > As of January 2012, queries against ARIN's RESTful Whois system = surpassed queries against ARIN's Port 43 Whois system. >=20 > -andy > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From shollenbeck@verisign.com Mon May 7 10:12:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B126C21F864C for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O9pPuZbIplE8 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og112.obsmtp.com (exprod6og112.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5AF821F85E6 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 10:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob112.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT6gCZ/j9YHR4/mN6d7aNFiT0A00h7v0I@postini.com; Mon, 07 May 2012 10:12:10 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q47HC3YG027072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 13:12:06 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Mon, 7 May 2012 13:12:03 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNLHREmgmCcH5cvEqH+7+tbMFGKJa+j7lg Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:12:03 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F9630@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 17:12:11 -0000 I've updated this draft to address comments received last week. Scott -----Original Message----- From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 1:10 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. Title : Domain Name Registration Data Access Protocol Query Form= at Author(s) : Scott Hollenbeck Steve Sheng Francisco Arias Filename : draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2012-05-07 This document describes a RESTful query format proposal for the Domain Name Registration Data Access Protocol. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From alexandrsergeyev@gmail.com Mon May 7 14:43:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3584E21F86FD for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 14:43:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUCMX2qNMHH0 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 14:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-f172.google.com (mail-we0-f172.google.com [74.125.82.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCCB621F86F1 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 14:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by werf13 with SMTP id f13so2894455wer.31 for ; Mon, 07 May 2012 14:43:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XIcR9FtE4DBnp832La+VNc+Yr3cIjxbboyTDPcsfLEw=; b=BqTVGRTPeU3l8/WimNRldRIWUGz9qNID2CfQ9p+zwJeCWoz1M1Pk9Vyjc0PfAwsbVF zWq73bMvyEHyORWdXh95oDgJ6+ecvRbfD6LB63JG2Ja45lYk1u75zKarTvpWtVTUj8/O gDH20IybvJxzbNjWK3bNPUs0XW/3ObQD7yhcHK0mcYjzOccE1ZE7l72xS6Xnfe115oc3 h3Mv9l7Ff1sG4wthRHOayeXcESWYZdt1RtCWiJjbrCaNXb8GbLkFwGCpxQ6YL7E2mlnc EyUbs6pzLTvTWOr5PXZgPfYV1kkNcDHDq6tnTHkCc5wfI0UgZgmyE9ccr5paiB6OARn8 Uo4g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.98.8 with SMTP id ee8mr39000017wib.14.1336426981871; Mon, 07 May 2012 14:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Sender: alexandrsergeyev@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.153.11 with HTTP; Mon, 7 May 2012 14:43:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F9630@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F9630@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:43:01 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: IHwrluKGgTmsWmahu4pJd8sXpEA Message-ID: From: Alex Sergeyev To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 02:18:24 -0000 Hi, I did not have chance to participate in list earlier and really hope to not repeat things that were said before. So far, based on this draft I really would like to ask if there are serious plans to keep text/html and text/plain in the spec. In my opinion it looks like step backwards to battle with old whois without proper data formatting. Having HTML in API seems like mix of presentation and data which also would be best to avoid. I'm also wondering if having too much freedom would make some providers to not go crazy and add things like application/pdf to their list of formats. Would you mind clarifying reasons to have more than JSON + XML and how such reasons help RESTful WHOIS future? --=20 Alex Sergeyev Sr. Engineer of Dyn Labs On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > I've updated this draft to address comments received last week. > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 1:10 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Dom= ain Name Registration Data Access Protocol Query Format > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Author(s) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Scott Hollenb= eck > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Steve Sheng > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Francisco Arias > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: draft-ho= llenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 14 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= : 2012-05-07 > > =C2=A0 This document describes a RESTful query format proposal for the > =C2=A0 Domain Name Registration Data Access Protocol. > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt > > The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From Antoin.Verschuren@sidn.nl Tue May 8 00:43:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1710E21F8620 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 00:43:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MWw0PVzH+HBC for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 00:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ede1-kamx.sidn.nl (kamx.sidn.nl [94.198.152.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B4D21F861E for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 00:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kahubcas1.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.41]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id q487hqKa014340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL) for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 09:43:52 +0200 Received: from [192.168.129.215] (192.168.129.215) by KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Tue, 8 May 2012 09:43:53 +0200 Message-ID: <4FA8CEBF.5010605@sidn.nl> Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 09:43:59 +0200 From: Antoin Verschuren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120412 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [192.168.129.215] Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 07:43:55 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04-05-12 20:20, Francisco Arias wrote: > On 5/4/12 1:57 AM, "Peter Koch" wrote: > > >>> 2. We MUST only specify features that are already >>> required/implemented by registries/registrars. )Other features >>> can be specified later by those interested in extensions to the >>> protocol.) >> >> Limiting scope makes sense, but where's the threshold? At least >> one? The "majority"? Is the ICANN/gTLD world what counts? > > At least one. I disagree. I'd say majority or consensus, otherwise we'll not succeed to create anything and be discussing for the next 20 years for the feasibility of a registry specific feature, or local law specific request. Let's start with what's out there today. And since it is protocol, it must fit RIR's/gTLD's/ccTLD's, where some RIR queries are not used by TLD's and visa versa, but anyone understands a TLD does not have to implement f.e. route objects. - -- Antoin Verschuren Technical Policy Advisor SIDN Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl http://www.sidn.nl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPqM66AAoJEDqHrM883Agn3EMH/iWsJ8pPlXi84uxyQh8Pjwb7 LTLpP5U39/PZP4qTn01QCC/sjtOOX7xIZnzxKm9S/sKZE4z+iGzr2n0g7l3PfeAD k/6aamUwbI7IqD3VHmrErqeOVodFd2i52eiqCgyBkrDKbtG7EudF/OWMHoF6gFPh zk/p8v5SHMrsuqTz1h9MpwyvtUBpSAmyNotACO2Fzy/a4PjSAAwQGyNmYpiJej4a AzpCwqXD3zzMSn5qbCGuewyLu5ODGfuPH4A+xoLQVu9OOyP0ySeYMLcUc8M8cQNj 1zgImVdU3yWCTqu5X2Y9VGkr2cCkXcAmsbV2SmU3acnIM6FLknc1llLFczObQKg= =KS91 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Antoin.Verschuren@sidn.nl Tue May 8 00:47:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D2021F861B for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 00:47:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0rVrZi5hYeYb for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 00:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ede1-kamx.sidn.nl (kamx.sidn.nl [94.198.152.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1491421F8581 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 00:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kahubcas1.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.41]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id q487ll30014486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL) for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 09:47:47 +0200 Received: from [192.168.129.215] (192.168.129.215) by KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Tue, 8 May 2012 09:47:48 +0200 Message-ID: <4FA8CFAA.3030605@sidn.nl> Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 09:47:54 +0200 From: Antoin Verschuren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120412 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <4FA1610E.3050706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F89E6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [192.168.129.215] Subject: Re: [weirds] Query Parameters X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 07:47:49 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04-05-12 16:33, Ray Bellis wrote: > > On 4 May 2012, at 15:23, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > >> Domain: by domain name (example.com) Name server: by host name >> (ns1.example.com) and by IP address (v4 and v6 text format) >> Registrar: by registrar name (text string case insensitive match) >> and by registrar ID Contact: by EPP contact ID and by EPP ROID > > .uk only supports "domain: by domain name". .nl only supports "domain: by domain name" as well. - -- Antoin Verschuren Technical Policy Advisor SIDN Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl http://www.sidn.nl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPqM+qAAoJEDqHrM883Agn4asH/1SFVLyqnWM7q1F6fmVxAEYN 0dbrWIpEqssYHqTRNNgrdzBpR5LvuwqYQAG50ouN0AdR/ydzTMaUVPV0TNlIemR+ wsfumQTvBTaf4GqJKeNkrjTz4rKC+GX8WQ4WxMaO1cX4kNf3AAgiSs1vIlj/Lqie 5aJ6SwKHDrbcUJN5nQuKAYHJO6jCk2EtoPEEln9M8HVlYsUlxTADFejP6m0oWD3I hoah6bDNdopL67FsJuprSx1B/z8OAdWHGm4mniO3ezIZs7wMgAxeuTimByiC/BYP eyH3Ttrll9UcaB+bTAOcqJ9YsVVy4ujMkwpzsqm6qjFlwrKjMXXwll0pSOk+sY8= =AIVn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gavin.brown@centralnic.com Tue May 8 03:31:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F4E21F85C5 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 03:31:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rj0On6bxKVdU for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 03:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.centralnic.com (smtp.centralnic.com [193.105.170.131]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3422921F85C6 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 03:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gavins-iMac.local (82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net [82.68.174.118]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.centralnic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477D6712CA4; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:31:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FA8F60F.9090204@centralnic.com> Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 11:31:43 +0100 From: Gavin Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Sergeyev References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F9630@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 10:31:47 -0000 On 07/05/2012 22:43, Alex Sergeyev wrote: > So far, based on this draft I really would like to ask if there are > serious plans to keep text/html and text/plain in the spec. > > In my opinion it looks like step backwards to battle with old whois > without proper data formatting. > > Having HTML in API seems like mix of presentation and data which also > would be best to avoid. I'm also wondering if having too much freedom > would make some providers to not go crazy and add things like > application/pdf to their list of formats. > > > Would you mind clarifying reasons to have more than JSON + XML and how > such reasons help RESTful WHOIS future? Supporting text/plain provides a migration path in the early stages of deployment: clients can be updated to use the new transport protocol without also having to also support the new format. G. -- Gavin Brown Chief Technology Officer CentralNic Ltd Innovative, Reliable and Flexible Registry Services for ccTLD, gTLD and private domain name registries https://www.centralnic.com/ CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue May 8 06:57:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB0E21F8609 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 06:57:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.625 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.625 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.026, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OE3dCqx+hEnT for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 06:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8AB21F8607 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 06:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F2C151ECB41D for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 13:57:50 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 09:57:52 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120508135747.GC10226@mail.yitter.info> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F9630@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4FA8F60F.9090204@centralnic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FA8F60F.9090204@centralnic.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 13:57:52 -0000 On Tue, May 08, 2012 at 11:31:43AM +0100, Gavin Brown wrote: > Supporting text/plain provides a migration path in the early stages of > deployment: clients can be updated to use the new transport protocol > without also having to also support the new format. The early arguments in favour of XML, however, were that many browsers could render it easily. And anyway, that still seems like a weak reason. If you need to support legacy clients, then you'll need to have a straight whois server because the legacy clients won't know about the new transport. Who will go to the work of updating their client to use the new transport without doing the additional work to get the benefits of a structured format? The new transport provides zero benefit to the client. It's only the structured data that provides benefit to the client, so if they're going to update that's what they're going to want, it seems to me. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From andy@arin.net Tue May 8 07:06:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D2F21F8617 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:06:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id if7mOwfA2t2u for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0625321F84D3 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 80FFD164F0C; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38718164ED9; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:06:12 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:06:20 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: George Michaelson Thread-Topic: [weirds] the future is restful whois Thread-Index: AQHNKigGImLATs7z7k+dLhJ1tcXPoZa8lLEAgAOhiIA= Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:06:19 +0000 Message-ID: <52758523-1640-442E-8F05-C35E06BD19E8@arin.net> References: <8DB0E204-5DDD-42BC-9269-C852AC94AC37@algebras.org> In-Reply-To: <8DB0E204-5DDD-42BC-9269-C852AC94AC37@algebras.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5A55BD7BBEDB5F479285DAEFD5BDEA1C@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] the future is restful whois X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 14:06:33 -0000 On May 6, 2012, at 2:39 AM, George Michaelson wrote: > Well done. That's a very interesting observation on adoption. Do you have= any analysis of where the load is coming from? >=20 > Same as Whois? New ips? Apps? I'll see what we have. Last October when we did the measurements we did fin= d that the vast majority of user agents hitting the RESTful service were Ja= vascript apps running in web browsers. -andy= From andy@arin.net Tue May 8 07:08:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C1521F8644 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:08:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.744, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HgKwXn-w8G+z for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA4821F8617 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 6E1B5213596; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1895921355C; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:08:27 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:08:34 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Francisco Obispo Thread-Topic: [weirds] the future is restful whois Thread-Index: AQHNKigGImLATs7z7k+dLhJ1tcXPoZa9V70AgALfG4A= Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:08:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4FC4C92F-7474-4908-BE90-8B5E2CDD9256@isc.org> In-Reply-To: <4FC4C92F-7474-4908-BE90-8B5E2CDD9256@isc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] the future is restful whois X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 14:08:40 -0000 On May 6, 2012, at 2:17 PM, Francisco Obispo wrote: > Would it be possible for you to share some of the statistics? more specif= ically User-Agents and how distributed the client base is. I'll see if I can lay my hands on the data. I didn't do the analysis this t= ime around, so it might take awhile. I will tell you that back in October w= hen I looked at the user agents, the majority were Javascript apps use brow= ser apis, and then the next biggest smattering were Python, Java, Cold Fusi= on, etc=85 Straight up brewer usage was a very small percentage. -andy= From andy@arin.net Tue May 8 07:14:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A214921F8473 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:14:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QS0c1HdcRLGu for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CBCD21F8472 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id B766F164F32; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679D8164F2B; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:14:47 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 8 May 2012 10:14:56 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Alex Sergeyev Thread-Topic: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNLSTx+O8vdkOabkGjZGX+4iFU1Q== Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:14:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F9630@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <477CB0DFDAB0E94FAAE4E589D0157188@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 14:14:58 -0000 On May 7, 2012, at 5:43 PM, Alex Sergeyev wrote: > So far, based on this draft I really would like to ask if there are > serious plans to keep text/html and text/plain in the spec. I don't know if it needs to be in the spec, but there is nothing wrong with= supporting other formats such as plain text and HTML. If somebody points a= browser at a RESTful URL, passing them back pure JSON or XML is not doing = them any favors. Again, there doesn't need to be a specified result set for text or HTML, bu= t allowing a server to respond with such when the client wants it seem perf= ectly reasonable. -andy= From francisco.arias@icann.org Tue May 8 07:17:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475A921F84F0 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EEMWamm1926s for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB5D21F8473 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Tue, 8 May 2012 07:17:20 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Alex Sergeyev Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 07:17:20 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0tJUfK3vmrt8vNSxu38lnEF4cMow== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.1.120420 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 14:17:22 -0000 Hi Alex, See below. On 5/7/12 11:43 PM, "Alex Sergeyev" wrote: >Hi, > >I did not have chance to participate in list earlier and really hope >to not repeat things that were said before. > >So far, based on this draft I really would like to ask if there are >serious plans to keep text/html and text/plain in the spec. Good question, I think the text currently in the draft was copied from the previous draft that Steve and I wrote describing the testbed implementation we did. >In my opinion it looks like step backwards to battle with old whois >without proper data formatting. > >Having HTML in API seems like mix of presentation and data which also >would be best to avoid. I'm also wondering if having too much freedom >would make some providers to not go crazy and add things like >application/pdf to their list of formats. > >Would you mind clarifying reasons to have more than JSON + XML and how >such reasons help RESTful WHOIS future? We had text/html thinking that would be the output given to "the common" user that is querying using her/his browser. We had text/plain to provide the old-WHOIS look alike output that we provided through a proxy. Since the RESTful server was already outputting text data in the required format, the proxy limited itself to translate the query and provide back the answer. I don't have a strong feeling about whether it should stay or not. Thoughts? __ Francisco. From galvin+weirds@elistx.com Tue May 8 08:01:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE4211E8081 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 08:01:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o-LV8UDDU1VN for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 08:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ee01.elistx.com (ee01.elistx.com [67.155.182.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C2211E807F for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 08:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31965) with ESMTP id <0M3P00O54LOFK5@elistx.com> for weirds@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2012 11:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 11:01:35 -0400 From: Jim Galvin In-reply-to: To: Francisco Arias , weirds@ietf.org Message-id: <9DB43AB9EF69843ECD87AEA8@James-Galvin-2.local> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 15:01:22 -0000 -- On May 3, 2012 4:56:12 PM -0700 Francisco Arias wrote regarding [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) -- > Steve and I believe we may benefit by agreeing in a few basic > principles to guide our work. From this and previous discussions we'd > suggest the following guiding principles: > > 1. The protocol MUST enable policy options, not dictate them. > > 2. We MUST only specify features that are already > required/implemented by registries/registrars. I agree in principle. As with many things, it's about how we as a group and our chairs manage things, as has been mentioned by others responding to this thread. I'm reminded of a quote often used in development groups: The difference between theory (principle?) and practice in practice is much greater than the difference between theory and practice in theory. Jim From galvin+weirds@elistx.com Tue May 8 08:03:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ADF111E8080 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 08:03:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qQO9wTYPwlve for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 08:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ee01.elistx.com (ee01.elistx.com [67.155.182.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9A711E807F for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 08:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31965) with ESMTP id <0M3P0012XLS1NC@elistx.com> for weirds@ietf.org; Tue, 08 May 2012 11:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 11:03:45 -0400 From: Jim Galvin In-reply-to: To: Francisco Arias , weirds@ietf.org Message-id: <3E7E2192E219BCCF4BE38BB5@James-Galvin-2.local> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: Subject: Re: [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 15:03:37 -0000 -- On May 3, 2012 5:29:23 PM -0700 Francisco Arias wrote regarding [weirds] Lookups vs Searches (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) -- > In the context of queries, the complexity starts when we talk about > searches as opposed to lookups. Perhaps we should separate those in > two different drafts. +1 Jim From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Tue May 8 09:45:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5777321F84D9 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 09:45:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jrjVENqfIadu for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 09:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EBC21F846D for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 09:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q48DkIIF079670 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 09:46:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FA94D9D.9040208@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 12:45:17 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4FA8CEBF.5010605@sidn.nl> In-Reply-To: <4FA8CEBF.5010605@sidn.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Scope and guiding principles (was Re: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-00.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 16:45:25 -0000 On 5/8/12 3:43 AM, Antoin Verschuren wrote: > ... I'd say majority or consensus, otherwise we'll not succeed > to create anything and be discussing for the next 20 years for the > feasibility of a registry specific feature, or local law specific > request. ... i lack your foresight. i've no idea if accommodating a specific requirement, that is, ensuring that over-specification is avoided, will result in no specification (that seems to be contradictory) and twenty years of discussion. in passing, the .cat rsep to distinguish between registry published data (on port 43) for natural persons and legal persons (aka "people" and "businesses") was approved at the current iana contractor's board meeting of 2012.05.06, see item 2 on the consent agenda. > ... Let's start with what's out there today. the current iana contractor has accepted over 2,000 applications for delegations from the iana root to be made as early as the orlando meeting, completing no later than the honolulu meeting. the plan of record of the current iana contractor is to repeat the process it began this year periodically. wglc on work product may occur prior to new delegations from the iana root, but it may not. in any event, the utility of a standard for the 2000-2012 domains-and-addresses allocators and allocatees is bounded. > And since it is protocol, it must fit RIR's/gTLD's/ccTLD's ... i'm not quite as optimistic about the proper scope of a standards body drafted specification of an endpoint identifier allocation query mechanism. i can hope it must fit rirs, but it may be prudent to ensure it fits another ir regime. i can hope it must fit a gtld contractual regime, but i know it would be no less useful if it is capable of fitting at last one additional regime, and is, in general, contractor and regime independent. i can hope it must fit a useful set of ccTLDs, but these are, in general, arbitrary sources of requirements. To restate peter koch's reasonable query: "limiting scope makes sense, but where's the threshold? at least one? the "majority"? is it the icann/gtld world what counts?" exclusion of a requirement must not be capricious, it must be the consequence of an inability to reconcile that requirement with other requirements. my impression, from the domain tasting period, the fastflux working group, the conficker .c response effort, and incidental conversations with individuals professionally engaged in rights enforcement, private and public, is that registration policy -- actual cost in complexity (time cost) and cash (real dollar cost), are at least as useful as registry types (supra) at determining utility and necessity of use cases and therefore requirements. -e From johnl@iecc.com Tue May 8 13:51:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5332621F84CE for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 13:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.355 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.355 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.844, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fQ5E58zGBrVQ for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 13:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD2D21F84D3 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 13:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 18458 invoked from network); 8 May 2012 20:51:01 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 8 May 2012 20:51:01 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fa98734.xn--9vv.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=fnmMbfyyYZg+gIIy5B3IFpVIHlzuYidMc/ZcKs57r54=; b=VXHL04K1gDPEB3ak/wYpS5FPzRsIgbwjBdS4/fKzbzgvTHVOUXyuhbYbQ3wH0UgwBqf4zNx29e7Mcyu3yg3jIpUifcXSJewZSk7qzfdUPkJQKAnXd2fEVFwO0BhRGIVDXZY6pp2bCX26EyPWDsmbJbKRJohZTkAGj6MIP4H5dYE= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 8 May 2012 20:50:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20120508205038.26642.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4FA8F60F.9090204@centralnic.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 20:51:05 -0000 >> Would you mind clarifying reasons to have more than JSON + XML and how >> such reasons help RESTful WHOIS future? > >Supporting text/plain provides a migration path in the early stages of >deployment: clients can be updated to use the new transport protocol >without also having to also support the new format. As I understand it, the goal of WEIRDS is to create a spec that computers can use to query in a reliable way for the data that is currently served through WHOIS, and to get back responses that can be parsed mechanically. I'm having a great deal of trouble imagining an application where I'd implent the restful queries, but then try and grep the answers out of a text response rather than spending 10 minutes to call a JSON library and get a data structure I can use directly. R's, John From simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Tue May 8 14:06:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF53A21F85A2 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 14:06:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ni0SiRGCM2hP for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 14:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000:226:55ff:fe57:14db]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0615C21F85A8 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 14:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2607:fa48:94:201:8da1:52bd:24aa:2520] (unknown [IPv6:2607:fa48:94:201:8da1:52bd:24aa:2520]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D330440054 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 17:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4FA98AE3.8070105@viagenie.ca> Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 17:06:43 -0400 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5F9630@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4FA8F60F.9090204@centralnic.com> In-Reply-To: <4FA8F60F.9090204@centralnic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 21:06:45 -0000 On 2012-05-08 06:31, Gavin Brown wrote: > Supporting text/plain provides a migration path in the early stages of > deployment: clients can be updated to use the new transport protocol > without also having to also support the new format. Could such a client convert XML to plain text itself using e.g. an XSLT style sheet? An example style sheet could be provided in a non-normative appendix... Simon -- DTN made easy, lean, and smart --> http://postellation.viagenie.ca NAT64/DNS64 open-source --> http://ecdysis.viagenie.ca STUN/TURN server --> http://numb.viagenie.ca From sp@iphh.net Tue May 8 16:44:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5E621F845A for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 16:44:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xoqk0va57mny for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 16:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out1a.iphh.net (mail-out1a.iphh.net [213.128.129.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF6C21F842D for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 16:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from locus.tech.iphh.net ([213.128.128.130]) by mail-out1a.iphh.net with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SRu4r-0004Yt-1Y; Wed, 09 May 2012 01:44:21 +0200 Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 01:44:20 +0200 (CEST) From: "Sascha E. Pollok" X-X-Sender: sp@locus To: John Levine In-Reply-To: <20120508205038.26642.qmail@joyce.lan> Message-ID: References: <20120508205038.26642.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (DEB 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-bounce-key: iphh.net-20080616;sp@iphh.net;1336520664;a55ea4d7; Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 00:13:01 -0000 Gentlemen, I am the new one. >>> Would you mind clarifying reasons to have more than JSON + XML and how >>> such reasons help RESTful WHOIS future? >> >> Supporting text/plain provides a migration path in the early stages of >> deployment: clients can be updated to use the new transport protocol >> without also having to also support the new format. > > As I understand it, the goal of WEIRDS is to create a spec that > computers can use to query in a reliable way for the data that is > currently served through WHOIS, and to get back responses that can > be parsed mechanically. > > I'm having a great deal of trouble imagining an application where I'd > implent the restful queries, but then try and grep the answers out of > a text response rather than spending 10 minutes to call a JSON library > and get a data structure I can use directly. +1 for John's opinion. I would rather ask applications to migrate to the new transport/XML+JSON instead of doing half of a migration and using a new protocol with an old text-format. Of course we all know that also the text-format can be parsed but I would object to enabling a transition mechanism that could stay for longer^Hever. JSON/XML parsers are too easy to implement to justify a text-output. And as Simon wrote later, people can still convert the new structured output (from XML in his suggestion) or JSON to text if required. $0.02 -Sascha From francisco.arias@icann.org Wed May 9 05:04:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84A4221F859E for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 05:04:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wzp8vsCNaAEu for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 05:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1663821F85A5 for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 05:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Wed, 9 May 2012 05:04:07 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Simon Perreault , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 05:04:03 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0t29V7VAZGvknITp+aKUZzAD5Wdw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4FA98AE3.8070105@viagenie.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: I-D Action: draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 12:04:08 -0000 On 5/8/12 11:06 PM, "Simon Perreault" wrote: >Could such a client convert XML to plain text itself using e.g. an XSLT >style sheet? An example style sheet could be provided in a non-normative >appendix... That's is precisely what we did in our testbed implementation. Note that I'm not vouching to keep it, just explaining why it is there. __ Francisco. From andy@arin.net Thu May 10 12:54:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07EB921F86D4 for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 12:54:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h6kopMAaSgOG for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 12:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3BF21F86CF for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 12:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id E694621369C; Thu, 10 May 2012 15:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4334D2135EE for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 15:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 10 May 2012 15:53:45 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.4]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 10 May 2012 15:53:02 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHNLuY3lSJedWl3IEmjOyNfwMsfDw== Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 19:54:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20120510195151.23028.40300.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 19:54:06 -0000 A bunch of us in the names and numbers areas have worked on a draft to defi= ne the common behavior for using HTTP so that a client writer can have the same se= t of usage expectations for both numbers usage and names usage. Here 'tis. -andy Begin forwarded message: > From: > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-= 00.txt > Date: May 10, 2012 3:51:51 PM EDT > To: > Cc: , , , , , , , >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt has been = successfully submitted by Andrew Lee Newton and posted to the IETF reposito= ry. >=20 > Filename: draft-designteam-weirds-using-http > Revision: 00 > Title: Using HTTP for RESTful Whois Services by Internet Registries > Creation date: 2012-05-10 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 19 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes the use of HTTP in Whois services using > RESTful web methodologies. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat From julian.reschke@gmx.de Tue May 15 06:56:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68AA221F89E6 for ; Tue, 15 May 2012 06:56:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.788 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.788 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.789, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N4zCTLMy+SD1 for ; Tue, 15 May 2012 06:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 653B621F89E5 for ; Tue, 15 May 2012 06:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 May 2012 13:56:34 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.140]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp020) with SMTP; 15 May 2012 15:56:34 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19XBro0GadXJiyyeON6MZVuRkrr845eIQEAapZODn comm3RA42/lICz Message-ID: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:56:18 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Subject: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:56:38 -0000 Hi there, it would be great if the boilerplate did specify the discussion venue (this would have avoided one roundtrip to the authors :-). That being said: see comments inline. 1. Introduction ... This document describes the usage of HTTP for Internet registry Whois services running on RESTful web servers for the purposes of addressing the deficiencies as described above. The goal of this document is to tie together the usage patterns of HTTP into a common profile applicable to the various types of Internet registries serving Whois data using RESTful styling. By giving the various Internet registries a common behavior, a single client is better able to retreive data from Internet registries adhering to this behavior. a) I would be very careful in using "RESTful" when your intent essentially is only but using HTTP properly. In particular, the document seems to be silent on how the client actually discovers the URI it can send requests to (or alternatively, in case the URIs essentially are hardwired, that definition is missing). b) s/retreive/retrieve/ The goal of this specification is to define a simple use of HTTP to deliver Whois information using RESTful patterns. Where complexity may reside, it is the goal of this specification to place it upon the server and to keep the client as simple as possible. In the vacubulary of computer programmers, it should be suffecient enough to s/vacubulary/vocabulary/ s/suffecient/sufficient/ write a client for this application in bash using commands such as wget or curl and other commonly available command line tools. This is the basic usage pattern for this protocol: 1. A client issues an HTTP query using GET. As an example, a query s/query/request/ for the network registration 192.168.0.0 might be http://example.com/ip/192.168.0.0. 2. If the receiving server has the information for the query, it examines the Accept header of the query and returns a 200 response with a response entity appropriate for the requested format. 3. If the receiving server does not have the information for the query but does have knowledge of where the information can be found, it will return a response of 301 or 303 with the Redirect header containing an HTTP URL pointing to the information. The client is expected to re-query using that HTTP URL. s/header/header field/ It's also not clear why it needs to be 301 or 303 here. ... 3. Design Intents There are a few design criteria this document attempts to support. First, each query is meant to return either zero or one result. With the maximum upper bound being set to one, the issuance of redirects is simplified to the known document model used by HTTP [RFC2616]. Document model? ... 4. Queries 4.1. Accept Header Clients SHOULD put the MIME type of the format they desire in the a) Why is this a SHOULD? What's the impact of not doing so? b) s/MIME type/media type/ Accept header. Servers SHOULD respond with an appropriate MIME type in the Accept header in accordance with the preference rules for the Accept header in HTTP [RFC2616]. However the use by clients of multiple MIME types in the Accept header is NOT RECOMMENDED. It's not clear to me why you're profiling HTTP here. Clients may use a generic MIME type for the desired data format of the response, but servers MUST respond with the most appropriate MIME type. In other words, a client may use "application\json" to express s|application\json|application/json| (throughout the documemt) that it desires JSON or "application\weirds_blah_v1+json" to express that it desires WEIRDS BLAH version 1 in JSON. The server MUST respond with "application\weirds_blah_v1+json". This seems to invent a new concept of media ranges in content negotiation that didn't exist before. Why is this needed? 4.2. Parameters To overcome issues with misbehaving HTTP [RFC2616] cache infrastructure, clients may use the '__weirds__cachebust' query parameter with a random value of their choosing. Servers MUST ignore this query parameter. The following is an example use of this parameter to retreive the abuse contacts associated with the most specific IP network with the address 192.0.2.0: /ip/192.0.2.0/operator/contacts/abuse?__weirds_cachebust=xyz123 For all others, servers SHOULD ignore unknown query parameters. I think what you're saying is that all query parameters are ignored, right? The whole concept of reserving a specific one is strange to say the least. ... 5. Types of HTTP Response ... 5.2. Redirects If a server wishes to inform a client that the answer to a given query can be found elsewhere, it should return either a 301 or a 303 reponse code and an HTTP URL in the Redirect header. The client is s/reponse/response/ expected to issue a subsequent query using the given URL without any processing of the URL. In other words, the server is to hand back a complete URL and the client should not have to transform the URL to follow it. HTTPbis allows relative URIs here, and so should this protocol. A server should use a 301 response to inform the client of a permanent move and a 303 repsonse otherwise. For this application, This makes it sound as if it should be 302, not 303. It's also not clears why 307 (and maybe 308) aren't mentioned here. s/repsonse/response( such an example of a permentant move might be a TLD operator s/permentant/permanent/ informing a client the information being sought can be found with another TLD operator (i.e. a query for the domain bar in foo.example is found at http://foo.example/domain/bar). ... 5.4. Malformed Queries If a server receives a query which it cannot understand, it SHOULD return a 503 response code. Optionally, it may include additional information about why it does not understand the query as defined by Section 8. If the problem is the request than the status code should be a 4xx. ... 6.2. Naming JSON names SHOULD only consist of the alphabetic ASCII characters A through Z in both uppercase and lowercase, underscore characters, and SHOULD NOT begin with an underscore character or the characters "xml". This restriction is a union of the Ruby programming language identifier syntax and the XML element name syntax and has two purposes. First, client implementers using modern programming languages such as Ruby or Java may use libraries that automatically promote JSON values to first order object attributes or members (e.g. using the example above, the values may be referenced as network.handle or network.lunarNic_beforeOneSmallStep). Second, a clean mapping between JSON and XML is easy to accomplish using the JSON representation. I think ABNF would be good here, even if the XML prefix exclusion be just in prose. Also: no digits??? ... 7. Use of XML 7.1. Signaling Clients may signal their desire for XML using the "application\xml" mime type or a more application specific XML mime type. 7.2. Naming and Structure Well-formed XML may be programmatically produced using the JSON encodings due to the JSON naming rules outlined in Section 6.2 and the following simple rules: 1. Where a JSON name is given, the corresponding XML element has the same name. 2. Where a JSON value is found, it is the content of the corresponding XML element. That is not true for all JSON values (consider control characters). ... 8. Common Error Response Body As specified in Section 5, some non-answer responses may return entity bodies with information that could be more descriptive. The basic structure of that response is a data class containing an error code number (corresponding to the HTTP response code) followed by a string named "title" followed by an array of strings named "description". This is an example of the JSON version of the common response body. { "errorCode": 418 "title": "No More Tacos", "description": [ "We ran out of shells and sauce.", "Come back tomorrow." ] } That doesn't seem to be a good example of :-) The MIME type for the JSON structure is "application\weirds_common_error_v1+json" and the MIME type for the XML document is "application\weirds_common_error_v1+xml". Are you going to register these with IANA? A client MAY simply use the HTTP response code as the server is not required to include error data in the response body. However, if a client wishes to parse the error data, it SHOULD first check that the Accept header contains the appropriate MIME type. s/Accept/Content-Type/ Best regards, Julian From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Tue May 15 09:58:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8D221F881C; Tue, 15 May 2012 09:58:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pMDIXLxApIrs; Tue, 15 May 2012 09:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B8C21F87FD; Tue, 15 May 2012 09:58:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: IESG Secretary To: IETF Announcement List X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.02 Message-ID: <20120515165840.17566.18184.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:58:40 -0700 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] WG Action: Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (weirds) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:58:41 -0000 A new IETF working group has been formed in the Applications Area. For add= itional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (weirds) ---------------------------------------------------------- Status: Proposed Working Group Last updated: 2012-04-24 Chairs: Olaf Kolkman Murray Kucherawy Applications Area Directors: Barry Leiba Pete Resnick Applications Area Advisor: Pete Resnick Mailing List: = Address: weirds@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/ Description of Working Group: Internet registries for both number resources and names have historically maintained a lookup service to permit public access to some portion of the registry database. Most registries offer the service via WHOIS (RFC 3912), with additional services being offered via world wide web pages, bulk downloads, and other services, such as RPSL (RFC 2622). WHOIS has never been internationalized. In the absence of formal specification, ad hoc solutions to signal internationalized registration data have been adopted and deployed. Providing a standards-based solution that scales well could minimize further proliferation of ad hoc solutions. WHOIS also has no data model: replies are basically just free-form text. This means that processing of WHOIS output amounts to "screen scraping", with specialized handlers for every service. While many of the domain name registries share a basic common output format, the addition of data elements changes the output and causes problems for parsers of the data. The WHOIS protocol does not offer any differential service; it cannot differentiate among clients to offer different subsets of information or to allow different access rates to it. Various attempts to solve the limitations of WHOIS have met with mixed success. The most recent of these was IRIS (RFC 3891). IRIS has not been a successful replacement for WHOIS. The primary technical reason for this appears to be the complexity of IRIS, the fact that it builds upon many available technologies that in the aggregate form a complex system. There may also exist non-technical reasons, but they lie in areas upon which the IETF does not pass judgement. In recent years, ARIN and RIPE NCC have fielded production RESTful web services to serve WHOIS data, and each has met with success. It is widely believed that this simpler re-use of Web technologies familiar to modern web developers has enabled this success. The purpose of this working group is to broaden the use of RESTful web services by achieving simple and common URI patterns and responses amenable to all number resource and domain name registries. This Working Group shall determine the general needs of such a service, and standardize a single data framework. That framework shall be used to encapsulate objects that could form part of an answer. The framework shall be for data to be delivered via a RESTful data service using HTTP (optionally using TLS), and may use standard features of HTTP to support differential service levels to different classes of user. The data shall have one mandatory format, though the working group may consider other optional formats. The overall effort will be broadly aligned with a subset of the Cross Registry Internet Service Protocol (CRISP) Requirements (RFC 3707), but with the explicit additional goals of producing a simple, easy-to-implement protocol, supporting internationalized registration data and, specifically for name registries, capturing the needs of internationalized domain names in the data model. As the number registries have more experience with these services and have found common ground, with their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response, as an initial basis. Work to specify the query for domain name registration data will be = based on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd. The Working Group shall determine the general requirements of such a service, using draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements as an input document, and standardize a single data framework. The working group will likely not seek publication of this draft. Should the Working Group reach a point where it determines that the = problem of producing a grand unified specification for both numbers and = names appears to be intractable, it will be permitted to divide the = problem into separate tasks and amend its milestones accordingly. Milestones: Nov 2012 Draft specifying the common infrastructure document to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. Feb 2013 Draft specifying the RESTful URL query format for RIRs to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. Mar 2013 Draft specifying the format for responses to RIR queries to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. Jul 2013 Draft specifying the RESTful URL query format for domain name registration data to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. Aug 2013 Draft(s) specifying the format(s) for responses to domain name registration data queries to the IESG for approval as a Proposed Standard. From Jeff.Hodges@KingsMountain.com Wed May 16 10:40:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8846221F86FC for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 10:40:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.85 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.85 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.955, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UXvnd0L6Xve5 for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 10:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy1.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 65BBD21F86F2 for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 10:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 15727 invoked by uid 0); 16 May 2012 17:40:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box514.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.114) by oproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 May 2012 17:40:52 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kingsmountain.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Subject:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=It596rTzvpita6gi/kp5oLwA0XKhi7z40bE/2l8TfaM=; b=8HK3Ux6AHfwYjl6jdxj3ta0dVb5VP35p6+3iXnvnVyjJHT89Liqtj0+Ai6z2RBL5nauu8J1s/Qlj1V2ZCzY/PSnoD8diYWqVjPihQop3r0+QjE/FMu9EuptQkHljn+QF; Received: from outbound4.ebay.com ([216.113.168.128] helo=[10.244.136.83]) by box514.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SUiDU-000405-Hg for weirds@ietf.org; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:40:52 -0600 Message-ID: <4FB3E6A5.1050204@KingsMountain.com> Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 10:40:53 -0700 From: =JeffH User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF WEIRDS WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {11025:box514.bluehost.com:kingsmou:kingsmountain.com} {sentby:smtp auth 216.113.168.128 authed with jeff.hodges+kingsmountain.com} Subject: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 17:40:54 -0000 http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-11may12-en.htm WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report 11 May 2012 Forum Announcement: Comment Period Opens on Date: 11 May 2012 Categories/Tags: Reviews/Improvements WHOIS Policy Transparency/Accountability Purpose (Brief): The WHOIS Policy Review Team, constituted under ICANN's Affirmation of Commitments (AoC) agreement with the U.S. Department of Commerce, submitted its Final Report and Recommendations [PDF, 1.44 MB] to the ICANN Board and this document has been posted for public comment. Public Comment Box Link: From msk@cloudmark.com Wed May 16 11:45:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6612C21F8655 for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:45:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.034, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TsAy0NVc8RKG for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cloudmark.com (cmgw1.cloudmark.com [208.83.136.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F79521F861C for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com ([72.5.239.25]) by mail.cloudmark.com with bizsmtp id Aikz1j0010ZaKgw01ikzvg; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:44:59 -0700 X-CMAE-Match: 0 X-CMAE-Score: 0.00 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=MOXiabll c=1 sm=1 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:17 a=LvckAehuu68A:10 a=zutiEJmiVI4A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=1ZKcPtBJaRYAjawGtH4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=Rh-8r-0wF1uli8WjAKoA:7 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:117 Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2524:76b6:a865:539c%10]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:41:17 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adopting documents Thread-Index: Ac0zk3pfHKvqB3YYTli+Irvf15wwGw== Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 18:41:17 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466exchmbx901corpclo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudmark.com; s=default; t=1337193899; bh=+zl0/FzqetKES3BwN/Crn58FrbLUh04Olop6JafgneE=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=GLOVkeS3PIBZZgNFwg/ujtY5MqSkj+39Po5RkUvl0yRQgf4Nc9JUt+oQGWfqVYyf0 T+pehzV26XyyamZmAUqTTN64tNZOyhIa1/cJkhVBEEro2ijRweoNK/9V++fnC7p3LL 3iG026SVCalPFAZgULxa97IAGJhiwymEc8YavNv0= Subject: [weirds] Adopting documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 18:45:12 -0000 --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466exchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings all, welcome to WEIRDS! For our first trick, and while your co-chairs and AD plan out strategy, we'= d like to have some discussion about which document(s) need to be adopted i= nto the working group with the understanding that we may not publish all of= them, some them could best be merged, some may need more work, etc. So for the sake of getting that conversation started (and to get the datatr= acker to show everything that's been done so far on one page), I've put all= of the following into Call For Adoption state for WEIRDS: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-designteam-weirds-using-http/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ Let's have some suggestions about which ones to adopt, which ones might be = combined, which ones we should drop, etc., given the charter that got appro= ved. When we've converged on that, we can formally adopt the ones we selec= t (or new ones that result) and get moving. Cheers, -MSK --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466exchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings all, welcome to WEIRDS!

 

For our first trick, and while your co-chairs and AD= plan out strategy, we’d like to have some discussion about which doc= ument(s) need to be adopted into the working group with the understanding t= hat we may not publish all of them, some them could best be merged, some may need more work, etc.


So for the sake of getting that conversation started (and to get the datatr= acker to show everything that’s been done so far on one page), I̵= 7;ve put all of the following into Call For Adoption state for WEIRDS:=

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-designt= eam-weirds-using-http/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucher= awy-weirds-requirements/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-we= irds-icann-rws-dnrd/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-= dnrd-ap-query/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton= -et-al-weirds-rir-query/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-we= irds-icann-rws-dnrd/

 

Let’s have some suggestions about which ones t= o adopt, which ones might be combined, which ones we should drop, etc., giv= en the charter that got approved.  When we’ve converged on that,= we can formally adopt the ones we select (or new ones that result) and get moving.

 

Cheers,

-MSK

--_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466exchmbx901corpclo_-- From aservin@lacnic.net Wed May 16 11:53:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B4D21F85F7 for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:53:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5yTSOTQKCCyg for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEABF21F85EF for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 11:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:d9c8:1394:9652:3ec2] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:d9c8:1394:9652:3ec2]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159A530843E; Wed, 16 May 2012 15:53:36 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0196E1FC-0D8A-4E73-A3DE-8A0026E1A3DA" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 15:53:25 -0300 Message-Id: <855E48F9-7C67-476E-8E3F-EE0DFD67E5BD@lacnic.net> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Adopting documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 18:53:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0196E1FC-0D8A-4E73-A3DE-8A0026E1A3DA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Murray, I think that you missed: draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response Regards, as On 16 May 2012, at 15:41, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Greetings all, welcome to WEIRDS! > =20 > For our first trick, and while your co-chairs and AD plan out = strategy, we=92d like to have some discussion about which document(s) = need to be adopted into the working group with the understanding that we = may not publish all of them, some them could best be merged, some may = need more work, etc. >=20 > So for the sake of getting that conversation started (and to get the = datatracker to show everything that=92s been done so far on one page), = I=92ve put all of the following into Call For Adoption state for WEIRDS: > =20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-designteam-weirds-using-http/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ > =20 > Let=92s have some suggestions about which ones to adopt, which ones = might be combined, which ones we should drop, etc., given the charter = that got approved. When we=92ve converged on that, we can formally = adopt the ones we select (or new ones that result) and get moving. > =20 > Cheers, > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail=_0196E1FC-0D8A-4E73-A3DE-8A0026E1A3DA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Murray,

I think = that you missed:

draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response


<= /div>
Regards,
as

On 16 May 2012, at = 15:41, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

Greetings all, welcome to = WEIRDS!
 
For our first trick, and while your co-chairs and AD plan = out strategy, we=92d like to have some discussion about which = document(s) need to be adopted into the working group with the = understanding that we may not publish all of them, some them could best = be merged, some may need more work, etc.

So for the sake of getting that conversation started = (and to get the datatracker to show everything that=92s been done so far = on one page), I=92ve put all of the following into Call For Adoption = state for WEIRDS:
 
To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Adopting documents Thread-Index: Ac0zk3pfHKvqB3YYTli+Irvf15wwGwAPF5OAAA6NkPA= Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 18:57:13 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392812450B@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <855E48F9-7C67-476E-8E3F-EE0DFD67E5BD@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <855E48F9-7C67-476E-8E3F-EE0DFD67E5BD@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392812450Bexchmbx901corpclo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudmark.com; s=default; t=1337194886; bh=ALS6C8SQkoXtnbUtRJItczSsPd7qFqqrytwVkgQY7b8=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=iJc2p1K6wk0FY150mL8GQXtYuoARdBEeSJ88mMaAvMNM7xi8y7XEEcJW2u/GBbpeU u91uscfBi8lfEpf3pQZ1dce+O9xiVH29B5WWxCtmBBFKf8eJKjVGSzJS4kdsVNW64s zMtujbt3gdD6EOACrLbUwJ/Jy44MJklB8TEaL79U= Subject: Re: [weirds] Adopting documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 19:01:29 -0000 --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392812450Bexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, sorry. I pasted Steve's twice and missed that one. Mouse hand error. -MSK From: Arturo Servin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:53 AM To: Murray S. Kucherawy Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Adopting documents Murray, I think that you missed: draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response Regards, as On 16 May 2012, at 15:41, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: Greetings all, welcome to WEIRDS! For our first trick, and while your co-chairs and AD plan out strategy, we'= d like to have some discussion about which document(s) need to be adopted i= nto the working group with the understanding that we may not publish all of= them, some them could best be merged, some may need more work, etc. So for the sake of getting that conversation started (and to get the datatr= acker to show everything that's been done so far on one page), I've put all= of the following into Call For Adoption state for WEIRDS: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-designteam-weirds-using-http/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ Let's have some suggestions about which ones to adopt, which ones might be = combined, which ones we should drop, etc., given the charter that got appro= ved. When we've converged on that, we can formally adopt the ones we selec= t (or new ones that result) and get moving. Cheers, -MSK _______________________________________________ weirds mailing list weirds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392812450Bexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, sorry.  I paste= d Steve’s twice and missed that one.  Mouse hand error.

 <= /p>

-MSK

 <= /p>

From: Arturo S= ervin [mailto:aservin@lacnic.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:53 AM
To: Murray S. Kucherawy
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] Adopting documents

 

Murray,

 

   &nb= sp;      I think that you missed:

 

draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response=

 

Regards,

as

 

On 16 May 2012, at 15:41, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:=



Greetings all, welcome to WEIRDS!<= /o:p>

 

For our first trick, and while your co-= chairs and AD plan out strategy, we’d like to have some discussion ab= out which document(s) need to be adopted into the working group with the understanding that we may not publish all of them, some them coul= d best be merged, some may need more work, etc.


So for the sake of getting that conversation started (and to get the datatr= acker to show everything that’s been done so far on one page), I̵= 7;ve put all of the following into Call For Adoption state for WEIRDS:=

 

 

Let’s have some suggestions about= which ones to adopt, which ones might be combined, which ones we should dr= op, etc., given the charter that got approved.  When we’ve conve= rged on that, we can formally adopt the ones we select (or new ones that result= ) and get moving.

 

Cheers,

-MSK

_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/weirds

 

--_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392812450Bexchmbx901corpclo_-- From carlosm3011@gmail.com Wed May 16 12:31:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC0E721F862F for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.023 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.023 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.575, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qIkbHnKAkhOX for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gg0-f172.google.com (mail-gg0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F297A21F862A for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggnc4 with SMTP id c4so1278619ggn.31 for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=+wUI9Qs7rBETl3ngzKdrlZ/5IBnG06bSHckMCWhVXB4=; b=ussS8dCEdzoN4hzlmvQQPM1rCuKgpE5ItVGql5bO5fRzHBqCc8jBj7v6Bicrs/KrWc 297OK4KlHgvQtYkqb+kIXgpSw9mJhCal0LEu8aEpq6wnhXmDOe6ycCOVEPj9kxeTL2ky PR4zB6xjftBFJ3pSXAqcfleVZx/4tir6b9Y9xBMPydnYJio4L1M/06KYOyZMl1HV9buN xtt8iimxFJJofzlKrjpISpcAKO+WPH9ee38NMD+sbmYgtSB6u0H/PXVO9d/ZcGUA3skd +hxz+QEYE2f0RFDg66nSmoRmTrg11dUzq9ZfVv+t7wl61VhavhnFRojnFcHW0DA0YO3H 66Cg== Received: by 10.236.183.228 with SMTP id q64mr4947984yhm.20.1337196662595; Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.local ([200.7.85.159]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u20sm6028645anm.10.2012.05.16.12.31.00 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FB40073.7010805@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 16:30:59 -0300 From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "weirds@ietf.org" References: <20120516192350.29116.61652.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20120516192350.29116.61652.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030105030003060701030407" Subject: [weirds] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lacnic-restwhois-redirects-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 19:31:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030105030003060701030407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, congrats on the birth of WEIRDS as a WG. I've posted an I-D documenting our implementation of redirection in a RESTful WHOIS world. Bear in mind that this is NOT a protocol spec, although some wording might point in that direction. This drafts documents currently running code and nothing else. A draft on redirects will follow later at some point, or be integrated into other documents. Warm regards, Carlos -- Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo R+D Engineer http://www.labs.lacnic.net -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-lacnic-restwhois-redirects-00.txt Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 12:23:50 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: carlos@lacnic.net CC: dario@lacnic.net, gerardo@lacnic.net, aservin@lacnic.net A new version of I-D, draft-lacnic-restwhois-redirects-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Carlos M. Martinez and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-lacnic-restwhois-redirects Revision: 00 Title: LACNIC's Redirection Service for Number Resource RESTful WHOIS Queries Creation date: 2012-05-16 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 15 Abstract: The traditional WHOIS protocol has several important shortcomings, and over the past few years several approaches to a better WHOIS have been discussed and proposed. Among these shortcomings, different registries operate different WHOIS services. For users this implies that several WHOIS queries to different registries may be necessary in order to obtain data for a given resource. This document describes a proof-of-concept redirection service for RESTful WHOIS queries as implemented by LACNIC. This service allows users to query a single WHOIS service and be redirected to the authoritative registry. The main goal of this document is to encourage discussion on the topics of Joint WHOIS services and query redirection in a RESTful WHOIS world. The solution implemented by LACNIC proposed here applies to numbering resources (IPv4, IPv6 and autonomous system numbers). The IETF Secretariat --------------030105030003060701030407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all,

congrats on the birth of WEIRDS as a WG.

I've posted an I-D documenting our implementation of redirection in a RESTful WHOIS world. Bear in mind that this is NOT a protocol spec, although some wording might point in that direction. This drafts documents currently running code and nothing else.

A draft on redirects will follow later at some point, or be integrated into other documents.

Warm regards,

Carlos
--
Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo
R+D Engineer
http://www.labs.lacnic.net


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-lacnic-restwhois-redirects-00.txt
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 12:23:50 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: carlos@lacnic.net
CC: dario@lacnic.net, gerardo@lacnic.net, aservin@lacnic.net 


A new version of I-D, draft-lacnic-restwhois-redirects-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Carlos M. Martinez and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:	 draft-lacnic-restwhois-redirects
Revision:	 00
Title:		 LACNIC&#39;s Redirection Service for Number Resource RESTful WHOIS Queries
Creation date:	 2012-05-16
WG ID:		 Individual Submission
Number of pages: 15

Abstract:
   The traditional WHOIS protocol has several important shortcomings,
   and over the past few years several approaches to a better WHOIS have
   been discussed and proposed.

   Among these shortcomings, different registries operate different
   WHOIS services.  For users this implies that several WHOIS queries to
   different registries may be necessary in order to obtain data for a
   given resource.

   This document describes a proof-of-concept redirection service for
   RESTful WHOIS queries as implemented by LACNIC.  This service allows
   users to query a single WHOIS service and be redirected to the
   authoritative registry.

   The main goal of this document is to encourage discussion on the
   topics of Joint WHOIS services and query redirection in a RESTful
   WHOIS world.

   The solution implemented by LACNIC proposed here applies to numbering
   resources (IPv4, IPv6 and autonomous system numbers).

                                                                                  


The IETF Secretariat
--------------030105030003060701030407-- From francisco.arias@icann.org Wed May 16 17:38:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBB011E8080 for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 17:38:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Cfis0gWTeRF for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 17:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0489E11E8079 for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 17:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Wed, 16 May 2012 17:38:36 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 17:38:31 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Adopting documents Thread-Index: Ac0zxWUo/ZjKGZqLR96R5lh+eezBcw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Adopting documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 00:38:37 -0000 On 5/16/12 11:41 AM, "Murray S. Kucherawy" wrote: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query/ I think the first one is being superseded by the second and a corresponding dnrd-ap-response draft (that doesn't exists yet). __ Francisco. From johnl@iecc.com Wed May 16 18:34:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C76E21F86FD for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 18:34:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.472 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.472 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.132, BAYES_20=-0.74, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qg8WJ13FyIDu for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 18:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66FFD21F86FA for ; Wed, 16 May 2012 18:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 55254 invoked from network); 17 May 2012 01:34:19 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 17 May 2012 01:34:19 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fb4559b.xn--btvx9d.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=J4epEx3xl1Dc6PCVk6L59zkg0VOeRtjv9eteWoN6Nqs=; b=GxFWIL2GPrtdVsO2IJBB4OXysLX3uamP3q/kpxKWT2U1mKO6QfPE1UQtf/Wuv+HBPhs3rVkXbOSYe+K7W70uhXXshue4dBD4HhljEOB+eolsHVYgoMmv9TipBK3O4WtQXh9YPn3xm1u49G6FwXKN+t5MJPQT64OOCiusKzH1NGc= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 17 May 2012 01:33:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4FB3E6A5.1050204@KingsMountain.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 01:34:22 -0000 This is a surprisingly good report. I'd encourage people to read it, at least the first section which summarizes the recommendations, and send a comment to ICANN. R's, John >http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-11may12-en.htm > >WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report > >11 May 2012 >Forum Announcement: Comment Period Opens on Date: 11 May 2012 > >Categories/Tags: Reviews/Improvements > WHOIS Policy > Transparency/Accountability > >Purpose (Brief): > The WHOIS Policy Review Team, constituted under ICANN's Affirmation of > Commitments (AoC) agreement with the U.S. Department of Commerce, submitted > its Final Report and Recommendations [PDF, 1.44 MB] to the ICANN Board and > this document has been posted for public comment. > > >Public Comment Box Link: > From wendy@seltzer.org Thu May 17 01:23:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6C021F850C for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 01:23:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4qIBIX6O1fYr for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 01:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.seltzer.org (peppercorn.seltzer.org [166.84.7.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D39421F850B for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 01:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FB4B578.1070903@seltzer.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 04:23:20 -0400 From: Wendy Seltzer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Levine References: <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 08:23:27 -0000 On 05/16/2012 09:33 PM, John Levine wrote: > This is a surprisingly good report. I'd encourage people to read it, > at least the first section which summarizes the recommendations, and > send a comment to ICANN. And I think it's an absurd report, with disproportionate emphasis on WHOIS accuracy and proposed mandates, and insufficient attention to privacy concerns. Good thing we're not ICANN. --Wendy > > R's, > John > > > >> http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-11may12-en.htm >> >> WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report >> >> 11 May 2012 >> Forum Announcement: Comment Period Opens on Date: 11 May 2012 >> >> Categories/Tags: Reviews/Improvements >> WHOIS Policy >> Transparency/Accountability >> >> Purpose (Brief): >> The WHOIS Policy Review Team, constituted under ICANN's Affirmation of >> Commitments (AoC) agreement with the U.S. Department of Commerce, submitted >> its Final Report and Recommendations [PDF, 1.44 MB] to the ICANN Board and >> this document has been posted for public comment. >> >> >> Public Comment Box Link: >> > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org +1 617.863.0613 Fellow, Yale Law School Information Society Project Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University http://wendy.seltzer.org/ https://www.chillingeffects.org/ https://www.torproject.org/ http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/ From patrick@vande-walle.eu Thu May 17 05:37:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FAFB21F8532 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 05:37:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.942 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.942 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.656, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OUUYi0-ofSNX for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 05:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucifer.abilit.eu (lucifer.abilit.eu [85.93.218.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB9121F8534 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 05:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu (ISOC.abilit.eu [10.10.13.199]) by lucifer.abilit.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D20C360120 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:37:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD6113018D5 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:37:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.isoc.lu [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03538-04 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:36:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Cioran.vande-walle.eu (99.17-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be [87.65.17.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick@vande-walle.eu) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB2983018D4 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:36:59 +0200 (CEST) VBR-Info: md=vande-walle.eu; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=vande-walle.eu; s=Sig; t=1337258219; bh=jfh5aoMY+lOToFaWyFpsKnU7qC65fQhu5Pyk9je2D+4=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=shjyYxmhzg7Q3ywMftThdnz70Uo1xZXN5moTJ02DkI5/efGVo+vGgM8mXHFtIjXru i85JwcLSKbYdbJNz3nLP3g1+1ZvN7Ijatrvol3X8FXIE1Frwlv1++bimDgIAIbZuoM GHQbt/OHSiXcuNZtKveFxS70rPaMEcUF5pom3eWA= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Cioran.vande-walle.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1487246421 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:36:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4FB4F0E8.20306@vande-walle.eu> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:36:56 +0200 From: Patrick Vande Walle Organization: My own disorganization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FB4B578.1070903@seltzer.org> In-Reply-To: <4FB4B578.1070903@seltzer.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010606010606050003010900" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.4 (mail2.isoc.lu [0.0.0.0]); Thu, 17 May 2012 14:36:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3 Subject: Re: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: patrick@vande-walle.eu List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:37:24 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010606010606050003010900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 17/05/12 10:23, Wendy Seltzer wrote: > > And I think it's an absurd report, with disproportionate emphasis on > WHOIS accuracy and proposed mandates, and insufficient attention to > privacy concerns. Good thing we're not ICANN. Wendy, While I largely concur with your vision of this report, I point out that privacy is mostly a matter of policy, and not standards. Hence, the discussion on privacy on this list will be limited. It is important to make sure that whatever standard this group will produce will not prevent the use of an authentication framework with different classes of users. My personal view is that this group also needs to come up with a clear set of mandatory guidelines as to the implementation of such a framework. Something that goes beyond simply saying "use HTTP AUTH". Would that be auth-basic, auth-digest, certificate based ? If Iwere to write a software client, or a Perl library to query this new system, I would expect all queried registries to behave the same way. If registries are left to implement authentication frameworks whichever way they want, that would be a lost opportunity to remedy the current cacophony. Patrick --------------010606010606050003010900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 17/05/12 10:23, Wendy Seltzer wrote: 

And I think it's an absurd report, with disproportionate emphasis on
WHOIS accuracy and proposed mandates, and insufficient attention to
privacy concerns.  Good thing we're not ICANN.

Wendy,

While  I largely concur with your vision of this report, I point out that privacy is  mostly a matter of policy, and not standards. Hence, the discussion on privacy on this list will be limited.

It is important to make sure that whatever standard this group will produce will not prevent the use of an authentication framework with different classes of users. 

My personal view is that this group also needs to come up with a clear set of mandatory guidelines as to the implementation of such a framework. Something that goes beyond simply saying "use HTTP AUTH".  Would that be auth-basic, auth-digest, certificate based ?   If Iwere to write a software client, or a Perl library to query this new system, I would expect all queried registries to behave the same way.   If registries are left to  implement authentication frameworks whichever way they want,  that would be a lost opportunity to remedy the current cacophony.

Patrick


--------------010606010606050003010900-- From avri@acm.org Thu May 17 05:43:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA7C621F85E4 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 05:43:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wUSWfpTAoG3m for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 05:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omr8.networksolutionsemail.com (omr8.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.58]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8574D21F85D5 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 05:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cm-omr1 (mail.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.50]) by omr8.networksolutionsemail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q4HChIhR001474 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:43:18 -0400 X-Authenticated-IP: 193.134.193.5 Received: from [193.134.193.5] ([193.134.193.5:43990] helo=[10.5.19.77]) by cm-omr1 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.41 r(31179/31189)) with ESMTP id B6/CF-23732-562F4BF4; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:43:18 -0400 References: <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FB4B578.1070903@seltzer.org> <4FB4F0E8.20306@vande-walle.eu> User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <4FB4F0E8.20306@vande-walle.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Avri Doria Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:43:12 +0200 To: patrick@vande-walle.eu, weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <361c6673-1e3b-476b-ada2-568e13715c9b@email.android.com> Subject: Re: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:43:20 -0000 +1 to both Wendy's and Patrick's comments. While an issue may be a policy issue, the technical solutions should accommodate a wide range of policy alternatives. Definitely interested on working on the definition of that framework. avri Patrick Vande Walle wrote: >On 17/05/12 10:23, Wendy Seltzer wrote: >> >> And I think it's an absurd report, with disproportionate emphasis on >> WHOIS accuracy and proposed mandates, and insufficient attention to >> privacy concerns. Good thing we're not ICANN. > >Wendy, > >While I largely concur with your vision of this report, I point out >that privacy is mostly a matter of policy, and not standards. Hence, >the discussion on privacy on this list will be limited. > >It is important to make sure that whatever standard this group will >produce will not prevent the use of an authentication framework with >different classes of users. > >My personal view is that this group also needs to come up with a clear >set of mandatory guidelines as to the implementation of such a >framework. Something that goes beyond simply saying "use HTTP AUTH". >Would that be auth-basic, auth-digest, certificate based ? If Iwere >to >write a software client, or a Perl library to query this new system, I >would expect all queried registries to behave the same way. If >registries are left to implement authentication frameworks whichever >way they want, that would be a lost opportunity to remedy the current >cacophony. > >Patrick > > >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu May 17 06:40:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974E421F86C2 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 06:40:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XiTDZX+srUH2 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 06:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E664B21F869F for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 06:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C5BA61ECB41C for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:40:29 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 09:40:32 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120517134032.GB28307@mail.yitter.info> References: <4FB3E6A5.1050204@KingsMountain.com> <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:40:31 -0000 On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 01:33:57AM -0000, John Levine wrote: > This is a surprisingly good report. It's interesting you say that. I had exactly the opposite reaction. There are problems both large and small. The executive summary has a bad definition of what a domain name is. The report makes a number of preposterous recommendations, like that ICANN should, for some reason, start chasing all referrals in whois (because, apparently, people don't know how to use whois and this will magically enable them to do so), and attempts to extent ICANN's regulatory reach into areas where it has no business (and where it will fail anyway). It gets its history wrong, and just ignores IRIS. It makes the distinction among the service, protocol, and data but does not attend to that distinction throughout. It points out, but offers no suggestions for resolving, the basic inconsistency in what different communities want from the registration data service. Finally, it simply refuses to engage with the question of whether the very limitations of the protocol are a fundamental part of the problem. The latter is the most serious issue, in my opinion, because it leads them to make recommendations that are just as unrealistic as the last five times ICANN has blathered on about whois. Fixing the protocol limitations is simply a necessary condition for doing anything about all the rest of it. I sent them a public comment pointing this out after they posted their draft report (I also sent them private mail pointing out the number of technical errors in the report, most of which they appear to have left alone. One sometimes gets the feeling that ICANN committees just don't care about technical precision, and this report doesn't help dispel that feeling). I think the report is a shame. It has taken several years and not insignificant money to say a bunch of commonplaces, yet the report doesn't really help do anything about the two most serious problems with registration data: the protocols we have are poorly adapted to serving the needs we have, and the set of needs we have is in any case an internally inconsistent set. The first is a technical issue, and we here are in a position to do something about it if only we understand what problems we need to solve. The second is a basic problem of public policy, in which different actors want vastly different things from the same service. One might have hoped that the report would have provided a framework for figuring out how to make those compromises, but it doesn't. > I'd encourage people to read it, > at least the first section which summarizes the recommendations, and > send a comment to ICANN. On this we agree. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From andy@hxr.us Thu May 17 07:51:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B629A21F85D8 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 07:50:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UdMcCe3I3iQR for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 07:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gg0-f172.google.com (mail-gg0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C029821F859F for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 07:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggnc4 with SMTP id c4so2216665ggn.31 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 07:50:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=6E/zSekhcOhOECuizCrgng20heYjwCafw49GwwurN90=; b=UiMN/Kw/PVBpXk6InULEY3G3Tagwf51MJ1TyYd+X914IXYKrB8LLtJXsJsbZZQSTKS ZEFAqVWksDInNDF8qKuKpJn7uTo3dmf3qOg6rzcEyq3FzQTYoXWiRDYMMqV6WAfC82QT Ll0ZSw8Y9tDCRvMt7Fb/mbKb/fgssyqIKqW4LW6ECj9X4h3wh2M0U3fXtVPHVGpcCqxk zD/bnjcgD3iA87IDxwVEi9XMrsLM3aTdhzDqU7J3GnUwT1ygnaneGMl8AIfGMSjxyBTN bxF8JKLHZr0D95yrSRlDt/Yfsey0PalbywXoWmfAL9XMiA0WwNy0upvCwOBiMgRaE0Ei z3yg== Received: by 10.236.193.101 with SMTP id j65mr8205538yhn.47.1337266251317; Thu, 17 May 2012 07:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:500:4:15:3861:5c1f:3f1e:6002? ([2001:500:4:15:3861:5c1f:3f1e:6002]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r6sm10719198ank.19.2012.05.17.07.50.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 17 May 2012 07:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 10:50:46 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlIG5Xp6j1I9VMr6D80vTk1LP3nTAUNc3r6j+MDmxbk3I2hnAWxrJg0qaWvQOjzaZf0AlKn Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:51:00 -0000 Hi Julian, Responses in-line. On May 15, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > it would be great if the boilerplate did specify the discussion venue = (this would have avoided one roundtrip to the authors :-). noted. > 1. Introduction >=20 > ... >=20 > This document describes the usage of HTTP for Internet registry = Whois > services running on RESTful web servers for the purposes of > addressing the deficiencies as described above. The goal of this > document is to tie together the usage patterns of HTTP into a common > profile applicable to the various types of Internet registries > serving Whois data using RESTful styling. By giving the various > Internet registries a common behavior, a single client is better = able > to retreive data from Internet registries adhering to this behavior. >=20 > a) I would be very careful in using "RESTful" when your intent = essentially is only but using HTTP properly. In particular, the document = seems to be silent on how the client actually discovers the URI it can = send requests to (or alternatively, in case the URIs essentially are = hardwired, that definition is missing). The purpose of talking about RESTful styling is that the group has = decided to head in that direction, instead of doing something like SOAP = over HTTP. Perhaps there is context missing here that can only be found = in the other drafts. As for discovery, are you talking about service discovery or something = simpler like URI templates? > 3. If the receiving server does not have the information for the > query but does have knowledge of where the information can be > found, it will return a response of 301 or 303 with the Redirect > header containing an HTTP URL pointing to the information. The > client is expected to re-query using that HTTP URL. >=20 > s/header/header field/ >=20 > It's also not clear why it needs to be 301 or 303 here. Yes, it might be better just to suggest any of the HTTP redirects. > 3. Design Intents >=20 > There are a few design criteria this document attempts to support. >=20 > First, each query is meant to return either zero or one result. = With > the maximum upper bound being set to one, the issuance of redirects > is simplified to the known document model used by HTTP [RFC2616]. >=20 > Document model? Sorry, probably should be request/response model or document retrieval = model. > b) s/MIME type/media type/ >=20 > Accept header. Servers SHOULD respond with an appropriate MIME type > in the Accept header in accordance with the preference rules for the > Accept header in HTTP [RFC2616]. However the use by clients of > multiple MIME types in the Accept header is NOT RECOMMENDED. >=20 > It's not clear to me why you're profiling HTTP here. Because for this application, clients will probably only know one = format. The need to use the complex rules for specifying multiple = formats is unnecessary. > that it desires JSON or "application\weirds_blah_v1+json" to express > that it desires WEIRDS BLAH version 1 in JSON. The server MUST > respond with "application\weirds_blah_v1+json". >=20 > This seems to invent a new concept of media ranges in content = negotiation that didn't exist before. Why is this needed? For signaling the version of the schema desired. Is there another method = you feel is more appropriate? > 4.2. Parameters >=20 > To overcome issues with misbehaving HTTP [RFC2616] cache > infrastructure, clients may use the '__weirds__cachebust' query > parameter with a random value of their choosing. Servers MUST = ignore > this query parameter. >=20 > The following is an example use of this parameter to retreive the > abuse contacts associated with the most specific IP network with the > address 192.0.2.0: >=20 >=20 > /ip/192.0.2.0/operator/contacts/abuse?__weirds_cachebust=3Dxyz123 >=20 >=20 > For all others, servers SHOULD ignore unknown query parameters. >=20 > I think what you're saying is that all query parameters are ignored, = right? >=20 > The whole concept of reserving a specific one is strange to say the = least. I don't know if it is strange, but I see your point. We simply need to = state that all query unknown parameters should be ignored and the = problem takes care of itself. > 5.2. Redirects >=20 > If a server wishes to inform a client that the answer to a given > query can be found elsewhere, it should return either a 301 or a 303 > reponse code and an HTTP URL in the Redirect header. The client is >=20 > s/reponse/response/ >=20 > expected to issue a subsequent query using the given URL without any > processing of the URL. In other words, the server is to hand back a > complete URL and the client should not have to transform the URL to > follow it. >=20 > HTTPbis allows relative URIs here, and so should this protocol. Why? It is simpler for the clients if the URLs are absolute. > A server should use a 301 response to inform the client of a > permanent move and a 303 repsonse otherwise. For this application, >=20 > This makes it sound as if it should be 302, not 303. It's also not = clears why 307 (and maybe 308) aren't mentioned here. I need to take a look at this. But I suspect more thought is needed as = you have indicated. > 5.4. Malformed Queries >=20 > If a server receives a query which it cannot understand, it SHOULD > return a 503 response code. Optionally, it may include additional > information about why it does not understand the query as defined by > Section 8. >=20 > If the problem is the request than the status code should be a 4xx. Yes, it should be. This is a mistake. > ... >=20 > 6.2. Naming >=20 > JSON names SHOULD only consist of the alphabetic ASCII characters A > through Z in both uppercase and lowercase, underscore characters, = and > SHOULD NOT begin with an underscore character or the characters > "xml". This restriction is a union of the Ruby programming language > identifier syntax and the XML element name syntax and has two > purposes. First, client implementers using modern programming > languages such as Ruby or Java may use libraries that automatically > promote JSON values to first order object attributes or members = (e.g. > using the example above, the values may be referenced as > network.handle or network.lunarNic_beforeOneSmallStep). Second, a > clean mapping between JSON and XML is easy to accomplish using the > JSON representation. >=20 > I think ABNF would be good here, even if the XML prefix exclusion be = just in prose. >=20 > Also: no digits??? Good point, and good catch. Digits should be allowed. > ... >=20 > 7. Use of XML >=20 > 7.1. Signaling >=20 > Clients may signal their desire for XML using the "application\xml" > mime type or a more application specific XML mime type. >=20 > 7.2. Naming and Structure >=20 > Well-formed XML may be programmatically produced using the JSON > encodings due to the JSON naming rules outlined in Section 6.2 and > the following simple rules: >=20 > 1. Where a JSON name is given, the corresponding XML element has = the > same name. >=20 > 2. Where a JSON value is found, it is the content of the > corresponding XML element. >=20 > That is not true for all JSON values (consider control characters). Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. > 8. Common Error Response Body >=20 > As specified in Section 5, some non-answer responses may return > entity bodies with information that could be more descriptive. >=20 > The basic structure of that response is a data class containing an > error code number (corresponding to the HTTP response code) followed > by a string named "title" followed by an array of strings named > "description". >=20 > This is an example of the JSON version of the common response body. >=20 >=20 > { > "errorCode": 418 > "title": "No More Tacos", > "description": [ > "We ran out of shells and sauce.", > "Come back tomorrow." ] > } >=20 > That doesn't seem to be a good example of = :-) right. Let me fix that { "errorCode": 418, "title": "Your beverage choice is not available", "description": [ "I know coffee has more ummppphhh.", "But I cannot provide." ] } > The MIME type for the JSON structure is > "application\weirds_common_error_v1+json" and the MIME type for the > XML document is "application\weirds_common_error_v1+xml". >=20 > Are you going to register these with IANA? Yes. That is a todo. > A client MAY simply use the HTTP response code as the server is not > required to include error data in the response body. However, if a > client wishes to parse the error data, it SHOULD first check that = the > Accept header contains the appropriate MIME type. >=20 > s/Accept/Content-Type/ Good catch. Thanks for the feedback. -andy From bill.smith@paypal-inc.com Thu May 17 08:33:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C1121F8554 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.117 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.117 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QIXj6C3HqPZV for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from den-mipot-002.corp.ebay.com (den-mipot-002.corp.ebay.com [216.113.175.153]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C89D21F8507 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:33:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=ppinc; d=paypal-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-EBay-Corp:X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To: Subject:Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:user-agent: x-originating-ip:x-ems-proccessed:x-ems-stamp: Content-Type:Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding: MIME-Version:X-CFilter; b=nZKUZKNGK+YZ7EhTnM5d3wHoGswf+FbwZOMv/JicEgY//Xcj9qMY6gs2 LGYOaT2BgIQHLGO7tzgCZBiXXXJFvqb7pcPskxYPMOnYFu8PdLt/MhaES HlCtkM33gp0fO3k; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paypal-inc.com; i=bill.smith@paypal-inc.com; q=dns/txt; s=ppinc; t=1337268781; x=1368804781; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=MmvyZszFNWZsOXweFNOhusSTzbJnsSCkW9R0qJng/J0=; b=wowlPtIGKSj7wT2q/tir3AdUKOE9ozbEKJHt80UZT7YClLPkZUgAHgXE /4BCWFeDp/zkEgtruOGk1OwdSl3usirRXgrU1bBQbpDRm88FbfbOTJ9Sa maKMzZeSp/qsFZD; X-EBay-Corp: Yes X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,610,1330934400"; d="scan'208";a="8106346" Received: from den-vtenf-001.corp.ebay.com (HELO DEN-EXMHT-006.corp.ebay.com) ([10.101.112.212]) by den-mipot-002.corp.ebay.com with ESMTP; 17 May 2012 08:33:00 -0700 Received: from DEN-EXDDA-S12.corp.ebay.com ([fe80::40c1:9cf7:d21e:46c]) by DEN-EXMHT-006.corp.ebay.com ([fe80::5c45:283f:1e47:5cdf%17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 17 May 2012 09:32:55 -0600 From: "Smith, Bill" To: Andrew Sullivan , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report Thread-Index: AQHNM4sTpCkRS49++EyRLj5HrJNuy5bNl8CAgADLAQCAAEC8AA== Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 15:32:56 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20120517134032.GB28307@mail.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 x-originating-ip: [10.245.25.37] x-ems-proccessed: 10SqDH0iR7ekR7SRpKqm5A== x-ems-stamp: 2MrQwhhemPD5f6lnas2ysQ== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <02E3461ED9DC004995431A4F9A2B4922@corp.ebay.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter: Scanned Subject: Re: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 15:33:02 -0000 Thanks all for your comments on the WHOIS report. I've taken the liberty of forwarding a link to the WEIRDS ARCHIVE TO THE WHOIS Review Team. While our work is officially (from an ICANN perspective) completed, most if not all of us maintain an interest in and commitment to improving WHOIS (protocol, data, and service). While I can't speak for the team, your thoughtful comments are appreciated. I will note that the Report is now in the hands of the ICANN Board and additional comments may be submitted at http://www.icann.org/en/news/public-comment/whois-rt-final-report-11may12-e n.htm. On 5/17/12 6:40 AM, "Andrew Sullivan" wrote: >On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 01:33:57AM -0000, John Levine wrote: >> This is a surprisingly good report. > >It's interesting you say that. I had exactly the opposite reaction. >There are problems both large and small. The executive summary has a >bad definition of what a domain name is. The report makes a number of >preposterous recommendations, like that ICANN should, for some reason, >start chasing all referrals in whois (because, apparently, people >don't know how to use whois and this will magically enable them to do >so), and attempts to extent ICANN's regulatory reach into areas where >it has no business (and where it will fail anyway). It gets its >history wrong, and just ignores IRIS. It makes the distinction among >the service, protocol, and data but does not attend to that >distinction throughout. It points out, but offers no suggestions for >resolving, the basic inconsistency in what different communities want >from the registration data service. Finally, it simply refuses to >engage with the question of whether the very limitations of the >protocol are a fundamental part of the problem. > >The latter is the most serious issue, in my opinion, because it leads >them to make recommendations that are just as unrealistic as the last >five times ICANN has blathered on about whois. Fixing the protocol >limitations is simply a necessary condition for doing anything about >all the rest of it. I sent them a public comment pointing this out >after they posted their draft report (I also sent them private mail >pointing out the number of technical errors in the report, most of >which they appear to have left alone. One sometimes gets the feeling >that ICANN committees just don't care about technical precision, and >this report doesn't help dispel that feeling). > >I think the report is a shame. It has taken several years and not >insignificant money to say a bunch of commonplaces, yet the report >doesn't really help do anything about the two most serious problems >with registration data: the protocols we have are poorly adapted to >serving the needs we have, and the set of needs we have is in any case >an internally inconsistent set. The first is a technical issue, and >we here are in a position to do something about it if only we >understand what problems we need to solve. The second is a basic >problem of public policy, in which different actors want vastly >different things from the same service. One might have hoped that the >report would have provided a framework for figuring out how to make >those compromises, but it doesn't. > >> I'd encourage people to read it, >> at least the first section which summarizes the recommendations, and >> send a comment to ICANN. > >On this we agree. > >Best, > >A > > >--=20 >Andrew Sullivan >ajs@anvilwalrusden.com >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu May 17 08:56:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB52C21F8629 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:56:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g5xXYZJ9lCtL for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36BF621F85A7 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q4HCsoc1031552 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:54:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4FB51F8E.2050301@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 11:55:58 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4FB3E6A5.1050204@KingsMountain.com> <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> <20120517134032.GB28307@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120517134032.GB28307@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 15:56:06 -0000 On 5/17/12 9:40 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 01:33:57AM -0000, John Levine wrote: >> > This is a surprisingly good report. > It's interesting you say that. I had exactly the opposite reaction. agree. and on just about every prior whois foodfight i've participated in as a we-might-be-able-to-work-a-constructive-compromise participant. turning to another claim ... > ... I point out that privacy is mostly a matter of policy, and not standards... there is data collection. the syntax and semantics are the subject of specification(s). there is data retention, data purposing, and data redistribution. again, the syntax and semantics are the subject of specification(s). there is data publication, access generally, ignoring the out-of-band mechanism(s) above ("retention, purpose & redistribution"). again, the syntax and semantics are the subject of specification(s). > Hence, the discussion on privacy on this list will be limited. persons who don't know what they are talking about will attempt to limit the work of others to specify service primitives, arguing that a primitive is a policy, and so out of scope. i didn't bother to comment on ray's earlier observation that something likely to be mechanism is mere policy, as among collaborative peers the views will eventually be improved and shared. here i bother as neither wendy nor patrick are, in my view, technically competent contributors. least that seem to depreciate the contributions of less technically competent contributors, i point out that the not terribly useful binary valued "publish/don't-publish" toggle to epp was added at the insistence of the then-current chair of the ietf, who simply didn't understand the problem domain. -e From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 09:01:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A273721F85D4 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 09:01:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MErg4CkT+tuX for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 09:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E7E9221F8629 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 09:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 May 2012 16:01:24 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp070) with SMTP; 17 May 2012 18:01:24 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+0OXQBww20DeKjqxoQH08TcPSBT4K++xPMv20vQU mT901m8IfWo5rs Message-ID: <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:00:52 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:01:45 -0000 Hi Andy, thanks for the feedback. Replies inline. On 2012-05-17 16:50, Andy Newton wrote: > ... >> a) I would be very careful in using "RESTful" when your intent essentially is only but using HTTP properly. In particular, the document seems to be silent on how the client actually discovers the URI it can send requests to (or alternatively, in case the URIs essentially are hardwired, that definition is missing). > > The purpose of talking about RESTful styling is that the group has decided to head in that direction, instead of doing something like SOAP over HTTP. Perhaps there is context missing here that can only be found in the other drafts. > > As for discovery, are you talking about service discovery or something simpler like URI templates? Aha, so you're not there yet :-) Using URI templates sound promising. >> b) s/MIME type/media type/ >> >> Accept header. Servers SHOULD respond with an appropriate MIME type >> in the Accept header in accordance with the preference rules for the >> Accept header in HTTP [RFC2616]. However the use by clients of >> multiple MIME types in the Accept header is NOT RECOMMENDED. >> >> It's not clear to me why you're profiling HTTP here. > > Because for this application, clients will probably only know one format. The need to use the complex rules for specifying multiple formats is unnecessary. I don't follow. Servers need to process the Accept header field according to RFC 2616. Are you saying they can rely on it being simpler? In which case, this would need to be a "MUST NOT". >> that it desires JSON or "application\weirds_blah_v1+json" to express >> that it desires WEIRDS BLAH version 1 in JSON. The server MUST >> respond with "application\weirds_blah_v1+json". >> >> This seems to invent a new concept of media ranges in content negotiation that didn't exist before. Why is this needed? > > For signaling the version of the schema desired. Is there another method you feel is more appropriate? The method is probably ok, but the way it was explained was confusing: client specifies it wants "A", but server is allowed to return "B" (and label it as "B"), if it has out-of-band info that the client will understand it, too. Note that here "A" and "B" could be any media type (the label is really opaque). >> 4.2. Parameters >> >> To overcome issues with misbehaving HTTP [RFC2616] cache >> infrastructure, clients may use the '__weirds__cachebust' query >> parameter with a random value of their choosing. Servers MUST ignore >> this query parameter. >> >> The following is an example use of this parameter to retreive the >> abuse contacts associated with the most specific IP network with the >> address 192.0.2.0: >> >> >> /ip/192.0.2.0/operator/contacts/abuse?__weirds_cachebust=xyz123 >> >> >> For all others, servers SHOULD ignore unknown query parameters. >> >> I think what you're saying is that all query parameters are ignored, right? >> >> The whole concept of reserving a specific one is strange to say the least. > > I don't know if it is strange, but I see your point. We simply need to state that all query unknown parameters should be ignored and the problem takes care of itself. Yep. I'd also move the discussion of cache busting into an appendix, or not mention it at all; it's not specific to this protocol. >> 5.2. Redirects >> >> If a server wishes to inform a client that the answer to a given >> query can be found elsewhere, it should return either a 301 or a 303 >> reponse code and an HTTP URL in the Redirect header. The client is >> >> s/reponse/response/ >> >> expected to issue a subsequent query using the given URL without any >> processing of the URL. In other words, the server is to hand back a >> complete URL and the client should not have to transform the URL to >> follow it. >> >> HTTPbis allows relative URIs here, and so should this protocol. > > Why? It is simpler for the clients if the URLs are absolute. Do not profile the base protocol unless there is a very very good reason. >> ... >> >> 7. Use of XML >> >> 7.1. Signaling >> >> Clients may signal their desire for XML using the "application\xml" >> mime type or a more application specific XML mime type. >> >> 7.2. Naming and Structure >> >> Well-formed XML may be programmatically produced using the JSON >> encodings due to the JSON naming rules outlined in Section 6.2 and >> the following simple rules: >> >> 1. Where a JSON name is given, the corresponding XML element has the >> same name. >> >> 2. Where a JSON value is found, it is the content of the >> corresponding XML element. >> >> That is not true for all JSON values (consider control characters). > > Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. There's still a set of characters that won't be usable in XML (yes, not even escaped). >> 8. Common Error Response Body >> >> As specified in Section 5, some non-answer responses may return >> entity bodies with information that could be more descriptive. >> >> The basic structure of that response is a data class containing an >> error code number (corresponding to the HTTP response code) followed >> by a string named "title" followed by an array of strings named >> "description". >> >> This is an example of the JSON version of the common response body. >> >> >> { >> "errorCode": 418 >> "title": "No More Tacos", >> "description": [ >> "We ran out of shells and sauce.", >> "Come back tomorrow." ] >> } >> >> That doesn't seem to be a good example of :-) > > right. Let me fix that > { > "errorCode": 418, > "title": "Your beverage choice is not available", > "description": [ > "I know coffee has more ummppphhh.", > "But I cannot provide." ] > } Thanks :-) Larry will be happy. > ... Best regards, Julian From shollenbeck@verisign.com Thu May 17 09:40:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2AA21F864F for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 09:40:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LR0SshC+NSrV for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 09:40:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og112.obsmtp.com (exprod6og112.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED8D21F862B for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 09:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob112.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT7Up7+gVxfEpEO9nZAwGfIfnikmIDwkN@postini.com; Thu, 17 May 2012 09:40:17 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q4HGeB5B012440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2012 12:40:11 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:40:11 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adopting documents Thread-Index: Ac0zk3pfHKvqB3YYTli+Irvf15wwGwAtxooQ Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:40:10 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE2AF@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928124466@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE2AFBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Adopting documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:40:19 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE2AFBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Murray S. Kucherawy Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:41 PM To: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] Adopting documents Greetings all, welcome to WEIRDS! For our first trick, and while your co-chairs and AD plan out strategy, we'= d like to have some discussion about which document(s) need to be adopted i= nto the working group with the understanding that we may not publish all of= them, some them could best be merged, some may need more work, etc. So for the sake of getting that conversation started (and to get the datatr= acker to show everything that's been done so far on one page), I've put all= of the following into Call For Adoption state for WEIRDS: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-designteam-weirds-using-http/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd/ Let's have some suggestions about which ones to adopt, which ones might be = combined, which ones we should drop, etc., given the charter that got appro= ved. When we've converged on that, we can formally adopt the ones we selec= t (or new ones that result) and get moving. My take, keep: draft-designteam-weirds-using-http draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response Drop: draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements: We can refer to RFC 3707 for requireme= nts. draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd: This draft will likely be replaced by dr= aft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap-query and at least one other draft that doesn't yet = exist that describes name registry responses. Scott --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE2AFBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: weirds-b= ounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Murray S. Kucherawy
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:41 PM
To: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: [weirds] Adopting documents

 

Greetings all, welcome to WEIRDS!

 

For our first trick, and while your co-chairs and AD= plan out strategy, we’d like to have some discussion about which doc= ument(s) need to be adopted into the working group with the understanding t= hat we may not publish all of them, some them could best be merged, some may need more work, etc.


So for the sake of getting that conversation started (and to get the datatr= acker to show everything that’s been done so far on one page), I̵= 7;ve put all of the following into Call For Adoption state for WEIRDS:=

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-designt= eam-weirds-using-http/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucher= awy-weirds-requirements/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-we= irds-icann-rws-dnrd/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-= dnrd-ap-query/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton= -et-al-weirds-rir-query/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sheng-we= irds-icann-rws-dnrd/

 

Let’s have some suggestions about which ones t= o adopt, which ones might be combined, which ones we should drop, etc., giv= en the charter that got approved.  When we’ve converged on that,= we can formally adopt the ones we select (or new ones that result) and get moving.

 

My take, keep:

 

draft-designteam-weird= s-using-http

draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-= ap-query

draft-newton-et-al-wei= rds-rir-query

draft-newton-et-al-wei= rds-rir-json-response

 

Drop:

 

draft-kucherawy-weirds= -requirements: We can refer to RFC 3707 for requirements.=

 

draft-sheng-weirds-ica= nn-rws-dnrd: This draft will likely be replaced by draft-hollenbeck-dnrd-ap= -query and at least one other draft that doesn’t yet exist that descr= ibes name registry responses.


Scott

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE2AFBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From sm@resistor.net Thu May 17 10:12:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CC421F86C6 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:12:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gwCWqFep8-6K for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0E021F86BB for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q4HHC6j1025757; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1337274733; i=@resistor.net; bh=7MVYLPNl/c9osI8iez73OKFkgfQCVPZOrPjrR94mMOk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=PrcHeXN0U9Bcw61vnz1poiGHHW4NmLob6ZgaOg/cwB7XnjyIV9Sh2sQYdQqtsdpmV BrxrkXe513u99tLj6kDm6SaaOCXSf+jEQ+oqXewouXkKtZKq9cg29sCe3LwuGC388Z y5tm1M2L38OQ5jbCX1R03xY9Ng6qQ9Mbga/txTfo= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1337274733; i=@resistor.net; bh=7MVYLPNl/c9osI8iez73OKFkgfQCVPZOrPjrR94mMOk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Iwf7xL6fMH+rZEZPo02Di3EOq35mFbMfkYoGCtDUz8U7CuJ4GVsdhrY987Lccfplk VovSNVS4PaKA3X+rIeA82Skwhjhl8mDGBhkf6wylmUMgpbV2y1nJuu7FSrT2+WQysh tKNtAJkPfNjIczcKzqLy97fwO+VIu9ZoSoI8Qi30= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120517095938.0a91fb10@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 10:05:55 -0700 To: Wendy Seltzer From: SM In-Reply-To: <4FB4B578.1070903@seltzer.org> References: <20120517013357.74850.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FB4B578.1070903@seltzer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] fyi: WHOIS Policy Review Team Final Report X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:12:15 -0000 Hi Wendy, At 01:23 17-05-2012, Wendy Seltzer wrote: >And I think it's an absurd report, with disproportionate emphasis on >WHOIS accuracy and proposed mandates, and insufficient attention to >privacy concerns. Good thing we're not ICANN. There was a presentation about privacy in SAAG. Privacy tends to be a complex to resolve from a technical perspective due to lack of input about that aspect during the design of a protocol. Regards, -sm From aservin@lacnic.net Thu May 17 10:16:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A00021F86B8 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:16:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dHc-D8KGZ9s2 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B9421F853F for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 85-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.85.172]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924DC30843E; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:16:18 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F9397E69-9846-494B-9DA0-D053BF040ED3" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:16:08 -0300 Message-Id: <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:16:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F9397E69-9846-494B-9DA0-D053BF040ED3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think it is important to mention it. Otherwise you will end up = with different approaches to solve the problem for getting fresh = information. regards, as On 17 May 2012, at 13:00, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> 4.2. Parameters >>>=20 >>> To overcome issues with misbehaving HTTP [RFC2616] cache >>> infrastructure, clients may use the '__weirds__cachebust' query >>> parameter with a random value of their choosing. Servers MUST = ignore >>> this query parameter. >>>=20 >>> The following is an example use of this parameter to retreive the >>> abuse contacts associated with the most specific IP network with = the >>> address 192.0.2.0: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> /ip/192.0.2.0/operator/contacts/abuse?__weirds_cachebust=3Dxyz123 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> For all others, servers SHOULD ignore unknown query parameters. >>>=20 >>> I think what you're saying is that all query parameters are ignored, = right? >>>=20 >>> The whole concept of reserving a specific one is strange to say the = least. >>=20 >> I don't know if it is strange, but I see your point. We simply need = to state that all query unknown parameters should be ignored and the = problem takes care of itself. >=20 > Yep. >=20 > I'd also move the discussion of cache busting into an appendix, or not = mention it at all; it's not specific to this protocol. --Apple-Mail=_F9397E69-9846-494B-9DA0-D053BF040ED3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I think it is important to = mention it. Otherwise you will end up with different approaches to solve = the problem for getting fresh = information.

regards,
as

=
On 17 May 2012, at 13:00, Julian Reschke wrote:

4.2. =  Parameters

  To overcome issues = with misbehaving HTTP [RFC2616] = cache
  infrastructure, clients may use the = '__weirds__cachebust' query
  parameter with a = random value of their choosing.  Servers MUST = ignore
  this query = parameter.

  The following is an = example use of this parameter to retreive = the
  abuse contacts associated with the most = specific IP network with the
  address = 192.0.2.0:


    /ip/192.0.2.0/operator/contacts/abus= e?__weirds_cachebust=3Dxyz123


  For all others, = servers SHOULD ignore unknown query = parameters.

I think what you're saying is = that all query parameters are ignored, = right?

The whole concept of reserving a = specific one is strange to say the = least.

I don't know if = it is strange, but I see your point. We simply need to state that all = query unknown parameters should be ignored and the problem takes care of = itself.

Yep.

I'd also move the discussion of = cache busting into an appendix, or not mention it at all; it's not = specific to this = protocol.

= --Apple-Mail=_F9397E69-9846-494B-9DA0-D053BF040ED3-- From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 10:22:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86B921F8550 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:22:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id popMOm6NI9b7 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 769C921F86F6 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 May 2012 17:22:51 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp034) with SMTP; 17 May 2012 19:22:51 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18BfqwLBnEB7gtzriQ8o2pW1647zqiuOzz4YdB1IZ jBEhxaNRrwbM7K Message-ID: <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:22:20 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arturo Servin References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:22:54 -0000 On 2012-05-17 19:16, Arturo Servin wrote: > > I think it is important to mention it. Otherwise you will end up with > different approaches to solve the problem for getting fresh information. > ... Well, the *right* way is to send Cache-Control. "cache busting" using variations in the request-URI is just a hack that happens to work with broken caches. Best regards, Julian From johnl@iecc.com Thu May 17 10:29:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869BC21F8454 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:29:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.395 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.395 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.804, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ekyu32VBwTAq for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 378F921F86C7 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 24980 invoked from network); 17 May 2012 17:29:15 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 17 May 2012 17:29:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fb5356b.xn--yuvv84g.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=0ETa0WfuIi/uLuX0qbcVP80uxN5NQYSAmmWeFnVcYvs=; b=Krn1f5cq1j0N+5dCDvm4dq1wvWLPcbDqSHE5bcm0SKh9N22pKoNHPBcIC1H3tOAzgGbQVPsG1n9ALtODhlYkENUHPw5GfQIOY7tfZqKE6oRK/Bqf7GFb8jxml2UNCHtvB9f4ZBTpjsi+faaSlOc5XT4Oe1r2+DVh+sXAtlM5qN4= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 17 May 2012 17:28:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20120517172853.4001.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [weirds] ICANN wants an open source reference implementation of the Domain Name RESTful Whois X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:29:19 -0000 I hadn't realized we'd finished our work already. R's, John ----- snip ----- http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-3-16may12-en.htm ________________________________ Open-Source Reference Implementation of a Domain Name RESTful Whois Server - Request for Proposals 16 May 2012 ICANN is issuing today a Request for Proposal [PDF, 183 KB] to identify a provider capable of providing an open source reference implementation of a Domain Name RESTful Whois server. On 15 May 2012, the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) chartered a new working group to standardize a RESTful-based Registration Data Access Protocol. In order to facilitate the evaluation and adoption of the replacement protocol for domain registries and registrars, ICANN is seeking proposals for an open source reference implementation. Whois services, and their effectiveness in the case of Internationalized registration data, are important issues for ICANN. ICANN has been working to make advances in this area, appreciating the technical community's past and present contributions, and committed to collaborating with the technical and policy community to improve the Whois service. Beginning in 2002, ICANN's Security and Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC) published various advisories describing the needs for improvement related to the Whois protocol, service and data schema, most recently SAC 051 [PDF, 237 KB]: SSAC Report on Domain Name Whois Terminology and Structure. SAC 051 summarizes the previous advisories, and among other things, recommends that the ICANN community evaluate and adopt a replacement protocol that supports the query and display of Internationalized registration data as well as addressing the relevant recommendations in past SSAC advisories on this topic. Respondents are requested to respond to this RFP by replying to: rws-opensource@icann.org. The period to submit questions about the RFP will close on 5 June 2012. ICANN will provide answers to all questions submitted to all respondents by 7 June 2012. The final response to the RFP is due on 15 June 2012. This message was sent to matt.ashtiani@icann.org from: ICANN | 4676 Admiralty Way Suite 330 | Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6601 From francisco.arias@icann.org Thu May 17 10:32:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A4021F86FE for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:32:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bWq9sRAcw8im for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30CCA21F86FD for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:32:04 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 10:31:57 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] ICANN wants an open source reference implementation of the Domain Name RESTful Whois Thread-Index: Ac00Uvl9CeKs/YddSbWXLuL4w0juCA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20120517172853.4001.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] ICANN wants an open source reference implementation of the Domain Name RESTful Whois X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:32:06 -0000 Actually, the idea is to develop this in parallel with the standards process, potentially having one implementation for when we need to to interoperability checks. __ Francisco. On 5/17/12 10:28 AM, "John Levine" wrote: >I hadn't realized we'd finished our work already. > >R's, >John > >----- snip ----- >http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-3-16may12-en.htm >________________________________ >Open-Source Reference Implementation of a Domain Name RESTful Whois >Server - Request for Proposals > >16 May 2012 > >ICANN is issuing today a Request for >Proposal >[PDF, 183 KB] to identify a provider capable of providing an open >source reference implementation of a Domain Name RESTful Whois server. > >On 15 May 2012, the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) chartered a >new working >group >to standardize a RESTful-based Registration Data Access Protocol. In >order to facilitate the evaluation and adoption of the replacement >protocol for domain registries and registrars, ICANN is seeking >proposals for an open source reference implementation. > >Whois services, and their effectiveness in the case of >Internationalized registration data, are important issues for ICANN. >ICANN has been working to make advances in this area, appreciating the >technical community's past and present contributions, and committed to >collaborating with the technical and policy community to improve the >Whois service. > >Beginning in 2002, ICANN's Security and Stability Advisory Committee >(SSAC) published various advisories describing the needs for >improvement related to the Whois protocol, service and data schema, >most recently SAC >051 >[PDF, 237 KB]: SSAC Report on Domain Name Whois Terminology and >Structure. SAC 051 summarizes the previous advisories, and among other >things, recommends that the ICANN community evaluate and adopt a >replacement protocol that supports the query and display of >Internationalized registration data as well as addressing the relevant >recommendations in past SSAC advisories on this topic. > >Respondents are requested to respond to this RFP by replying to: >rws-opensource@icann.org. The period >to submit questions about the RFP will close on 5 June 2012. ICANN >will provide answers to all questions submitted to all respondents by >7 June 2012. The final response to the RFP is due on 15 June 2012. > >This message was sent to >matt.ashtiani@icann.org from: > >ICANN | 4676 Admiralty Way Suite 330 | Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6601 >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From johnl@iecc.com Thu May 17 10:33:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FBE921F86E1 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:33:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.435 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.435 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.764, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k-2A3FofNK20 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A78221F8629 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25990 invoked from network); 17 May 2012 17:33:13 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 17 May 2012 17:33:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fb53659.xn--hew.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=GcTl6+8YjPoiUwPotVUP8sRB1kTaROlzor2hBw3XIiE=; b=cbYDA9tUlFtxKHnfEcSBwBjZQWj+Cvguaez9ZSjJR9p750dFbKVRJpdSCctevuJQMnNro6R5jbxYzuG073Jj5yWvnYXUsUrBojqq0/wtLbqj8VfO9M7kNWF6KkXIzlXpyLq2rMbY0JeI7LlXB3tit/LZ2lJSjIZhJIYDoyINoVg= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 17 May 2012 17:32:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20120517173250.5000.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:33:20 -0000 >Using URI templates sound promising. I sure hope not. URI templates are a reasonable way to try to put a consistent layer on top of a bunch of existing inconsistent http services. But in this situation, where we're able to spec the URIs from scratch, they're just an extra level of unneeded complexity and cruft. R's, John From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 10:40:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E1721F865B for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:40:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kOPFQKXldu85 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5092721F8659 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 May 2012 17:40:26 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 17 May 2012 19:40:26 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18u6IwP8R4udKB2+L7rgvtTf6STv/V4rvgwrj4YPe iM+Qv4C0FgB7+z Message-ID: <4FB537EB.7010908@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:39:55 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Levine References: <20120517173250.5000.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120517173250.5000.qmail@joyce.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:40:28 -0000 On 2012-05-17 19:32, John Levine wrote: >> Using URI templates sound promising. > > I sure hope not. URI templates are a reasonable way to try to put a > consistent layer on top of a bunch of existing inconsistent http > services. But in this situation, where we're able to spec the URIs > from scratch, they're just an extra level of unneeded complexity and > cruft. > > R's, > John I have no problem with the protocol hardwiring things into URIs, if that can be done. But please stay away from the term "restful" then. Best regards, Julian From aservin@lacnic.net Thu May 17 10:43:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A707F21F8718 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:43:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7zhEgOSDlzRl for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1BE21F86BD for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 85-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.85.172]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A8C308455; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:43:45 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:43:36 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:43:52 -0000 I found the solution interesting to deal with the problem using = simple agents, but any decent agent should support adding this header. Point taken. .as =09 On 17 May 2012, at 14:22, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2012-05-17 19:16, Arturo Servin wrote: >>=20 >> I think it is important to mention it. Otherwise you will end up with >> different approaches to solve the problem for getting fresh = information. >> ... >=20 > Well, the *right* way is to send Cache-Control. >=20 > "cache busting" using variations in the request-URI is just a hack = that happens to work with broken caches. >=20 > Best regards, Julian From andy@hxr.us Thu May 17 11:54:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC92421F8752 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:54:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nSH9NMsgJ0aI for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-f49.google.com (mail-qa0-f49.google.com [209.85.216.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9373F21F871C for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qabj40 with SMTP id j40so2210284qab.15 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:54:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=BqE8x4xVATNtvEchzDMeSaTUEqv/DqDpKG9+JccRbA4=; b=VbTqCVta93T+BRBq5mnRp8ElmWvRFsqbdC0NeNqgKGoOhVdw7sRF76h1a7n53kJK9J LOr/TaKxqAIFsUEJG3vT1c1IGU5yaF0iHJoM92DI+zCHbmY63zivAQYodomUDLsHip2B N6Fp8tQzeLJtMHQAbG5yKzmWrV4qlM3uFlgvdRQe2YcXan2Pc0zx2hn6w91Uj7vjeThu aFYpmqz/subNM00PBFLQTbsO5d8HttNcv8BmunmusLaV17u/KFAkyjZUKNM0xR4nmRFB iSq44a0kMTZvHYdTQl4NtE28af+7r5noSPOgyvWQRtgO3NeJ2hks2U1ZRbFYOj9+/vfJ 6kmg== Received: by 10.224.34.9 with SMTP id j9mr18172295qad.14.1337280869115; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andytop.arin.net (core.arin.net. [192.149.252.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gy9sm16003701qab.22.2012.05.17.11.54.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 17 May 2012 11:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:54:25 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmvMfowdyFf3HLqPb0eWLneKSojALDrsVE1aubdFGVMN0OCcwQn6NKxZJRWCcVPCsjLBJ29 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:54:33 -0000 On May 17, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > Using URI templates sound promising. This keeps coming up, but so far nobody has shown why it is useful. I = think what we want out of URI templating is to be shown what utility it = adds before placing it in the specifications. >>> b) s/MIME type/media type/ >>>=20 >>> Accept header. Servers SHOULD respond with an appropriate MIME = type >>> in the Accept header in accordance with the preference rules for = the >>> Accept header in HTTP [RFC2616]. However the use by clients of >>> multiple MIME types in the Accept header is NOT RECOMMENDED. >>>=20 >>> It's not clear to me why you're profiling HTTP here. >>=20 >> Because for this application, clients will probably only know one = format. The need to use the complex rules for specifying multiple = formats is unnecessary. >=20 > I don't follow. Servers need to process the Accept header field = according to RFC 2616. Are you saying they can rely on it being simpler? = In which case, this would need to be a "MUST NOT". Uh, yeah. I think I'm trying to have it both ways. It's probably best to = simply remove this. >>> that it desires JSON or "application\weirds_blah_v1+json" to = express >>> that it desires WEIRDS BLAH version 1 in JSON. The server MUST >>> respond with "application\weirds_blah_v1+json". >>>=20 >>> This seems to invent a new concept of media ranges in content = negotiation that didn't exist before. Why is this needed? >>=20 >> For signaling the version of the schema desired. Is there another = method you feel is more appropriate? >=20 > The method is probably ok, but the way it was explained was confusing: = client specifies it wants "A", but server is allowed to return "B" (and = label it as "B"), if it has out-of-band info that the client will = understand it, too. Note that here "A" and "B" could be any media type = (the label is really opaque). Ok. I'll look into cleaning this up. >=20 >>> 5.2. Redirects >>>=20 >>> If a server wishes to inform a client that the answer to a given >>> query can be found elsewhere, it should return either a 301 or a = 303 >>> reponse code and an HTTP URL in the Redirect header. The client = is >>>=20 >>> s/reponse/response/ >>>=20 >>> expected to issue a subsequent query using the given URL without = any >>> processing of the URL. In other words, the server is to hand back = a >>> complete URL and the client should not have to transform the URL = to >>> follow it. >>>=20 >>> HTTPbis allows relative URIs here, and so should this protocol. >>=20 >> Why? It is simpler for the clients if the URLs are absolute. >=20 > Do not profile the base protocol unless there is a very very good = reason. I now understand what you are saying. >>> ... >>>=20 >>> 7. Use of XML >>>=20 >>> 7.1. Signaling >>>=20 >>> Clients may signal their desire for XML using the = "application\xml" >>> mime type or a more application specific XML mime type. >>>=20 >>> 7.2. Naming and Structure >>>=20 >>> Well-formed XML may be programmatically produced using the JSON >>> encodings due to the JSON naming rules outlined in Section 6.2 and >>> the following simple rules: >>>=20 >>> 1. Where a JSON name is given, the corresponding XML element has = the >>> same name. >>>=20 >>> 2. Where a JSON value is found, it is the content of the >>> corresponding XML element. >>>=20 >>> That is not true for all JSON values (consider control characters). >>=20 >> Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. >=20 > There's still a set of characters that won't be usable in XML (yes, = not even escaped). That would be &, <, and >. So I guess we should mention those are to be = escaped as well. Gosh XML is overly complex. Thanks for the input. -andy From andy@arin.net Thu May 17 11:56:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BA521F8750 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:56:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.516 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.516 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.083, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w7wyLts4AunU for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E0421F8752 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 097E3165062; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA11165040; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:55:41 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.4]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:56:27 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http Thread-Index: AQHNMqKPZqJhq//TLk+q9jbSHfxA95bOVqoAgAATlgCAABUIAIAAAbsAgAAF8QCAABRaAA== Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:56:27 +0000 Message-ID: <9566CC8A-04C5-45B3-A05E-69EFFAFCC2DB@arin.net> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5B3182CCCAEC694EAE1A00EB9589FB0F@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:56:33 -0000 Arturo, Would you mind us moving and describing the technique in an appendix withou= t reserving a specific parameter? The technique would be to select a parameter unlikely to be used in the spe= cification, such as "tenterhooksarekewl". -andy On May 17, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > I found the solution interesting to deal with the problem using simple a= gents, but any decent agent should support adding this header. >=20 > Point taken. >=20 > .as > =09 >=20 > On 17 May 2012, at 14:22, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >> On 2012-05-17 19:16, Arturo Servin wrote: >>>=20 >>> I think it is important to mention it. Otherwise you will end up with >>> different approaches to solve the problem for getting fresh information= . >>> ... >>=20 >> Well, the *right* way is to send Cache-Control. >>=20 >> "cache busting" using variations in the request-URI is just a hack that = happens to work with broken caches. >>=20 >> Best regards, Julian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From andy@arin.net Thu May 17 11:57:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C4021F86A4 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:57:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.525 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.525 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.074, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DEwyvjlWRBuv for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B325721F85D1 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 65B9821368C; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107DC213639; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:57:35 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.4]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 17 May 2012 14:57:51 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Julian Reschke Thread-Topic: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http Thread-Index: AQHNMqKPZqJhq//TLk+q9jbSHfxA95bOVqoAgAATlgCAABmyAIAAAfuAgAAVxQA= Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:57:50 +0000 Message-ID: <309CE4E2-5A61-40EB-8B0C-A979B3F15D26@arin.net> References: <20120517173250.5000.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FB537EB.7010908@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4FB537EB.7010908@gmx.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <47B8F0FEF8E5734CAFFE8E3F77A8A17D@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: John Levine , "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:57:53 -0000 On May 17, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2012-05-17 19:32, John Levine wrote: >>> Using URI templates sound promising. >>=20 >> I sure hope not. URI templates are a reasonable way to try to put a >> consistent layer on top of a bunch of existing inconsistent http >> services. But in this situation, where we're able to spec the URIs >> from scratch, they're just an extra level of unneeded complexity and >> cruft. >>=20 >> R's, >> John >=20 > I have no problem with the protocol hardwiring things into URIs, if that = can be done. But please stay away from the term "restful" then. Can you elaborate on this? Are you making a REST purity argument? I'm confu= sed. Sorry to be thick headed here. -andy= From shollenbeck@verisign.com Thu May 17 12:02:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5457121F85CF for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:02:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z9JT2suVYW8r for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og113.obsmtp.com (exprod6og113.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F90021F85BD for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob113.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT7VLQ+zqGSjc21xJhVgW5veNTHmEeSSD@postini.com; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:02:31 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q4HJ2MpP019553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2012 15:02:22 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:02:22 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton , Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http Thread-Index: AQHNNFSV9aoyiemKTEuVYyVvx6OLF5bOl+uA//++a1A= Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:02:21 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE445@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> <9566CC8A-04C5-45B3-A05E-69EFFAFCC2DB@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <9566CC8A-04C5-45B3-A05E-69EFFAFCC2DB@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:02:32 -0000 Isn't Julian suggesting that we not use the parameter-based approach at all= ? Scott > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Andy Newton > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:56 PM > To: Arturo Servin > Cc: > Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http >=20 > Arturo, >=20 > Would you mind us moving and describing the technique in an appendix > without reserving a specific parameter? > The technique would be to select a parameter unlikely to be used in the > specification, such as "tenterhooksarekewl". >=20 > -andy >=20 > On May 17, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > > > > I found the solution interesting to deal with the problem using > simple agents, but any decent agent should support adding this header. > > > > Point taken. > > > > .as > > > > > > On 17 May 2012, at 14:22, Julian Reschke wrote: > > > >> On 2012-05-17 19:16, Arturo Servin wrote: > >>> > >>> I think it is important to mention it. Otherwise you will end up > with > >>> different approaches to solve the problem for getting fresh > information. > >>> ... > >> > >> Well, the *right* way is to send Cache-Control. > >> > >> "cache busting" using variations in the request-URI is just a hack > that happens to work with broken caches. > >> > >> Best regards, Julian From andy@arin.net Thu May 17 12:07:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8221B21F86BD for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:07:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.068, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c+d9zTrrNaZE for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B0721F86B3 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 9EBB116505F; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16285165040; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:07:09 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.4]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:07:25 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Thread-Topic: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http Thread-Index: AQHNMqKPZqJhq//TLk+q9jbSHfxA95bOVqoAgAATlgCAABUIAIAAAbsAgAAF8QCAABRaAIAAAaeAgAABaQA= Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:07:24 +0000 Message-ID: <33CFB1F1-D8D5-4C53-85BD-F86DA266716D@arin.net> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> <9566CC8A-04C5-45B3-A05E-69EFFAFCC2DB@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE445@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE445@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <86BDBF39A1EB644C8D0069D270A13D87@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:07:27 -0000 Yeah. He also mentioned moving it to an appendix. I'm just trying to find a compromise. -andy On May 17, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > Isn't Julian suggesting that we not use the parameter-based approach at a= ll? >=20 > Scott >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Andy Newton >> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:56 PM >> To: Arturo Servin >> Cc: >> Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http >>=20 >> Arturo, >>=20 >> Would you mind us moving and describing the technique in an appendix >> without reserving a specific parameter? >> The technique would be to select a parameter unlikely to be used in the >> specification, such as "tenterhooksarekewl". >>=20 >> -andy >>=20 >> On May 17, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> I found the solution interesting to deal with the problem using >> simple agents, but any decent agent should support adding this header. >>>=20 >>> Point taken. >>>=20 >>> .as >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 17 May 2012, at 14:22, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On 2012-05-17 19:16, Arturo Servin wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I think it is important to mention it. Otherwise you will end up >> with >>>>> different approaches to solve the problem for getting fresh >> information. >>>>> ... >>>>=20 >>>> Well, the *right* way is to send Cache-Control. >>>>=20 >>>> "cache busting" using variations in the request-URI is just a hack >> that happens to work with broken caches. >>>>=20 >>>> Best regards, Julian From msk@cloudmark.com Thu May 17 12:23:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7E721F86EA for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F90U1xYutGef for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cloudmark.com (cmgw1.cloudmark.com [208.83.136.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2A221F86CE for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com ([72.5.239.25]) by mail.cloudmark.com with bizsmtp id B7Pb1j0030ZaKgw017PcGA; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:36 -0700 X-CMAE-Match: 0 X-CMAE-Score: 0.00 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=eMmRfQV1 c=1 sm=1 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:17 a=LvckAehuu68A:10 a=1L7oTAkmhP8A:10 a=zutiEJmiVI4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=b6nfwRhkAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=tDDaspz6yCORLih6ML8A:9 a=BB7VPUwor3-5h54t1d8A:7 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=LdFkGDrDWH2mcjCZERnC4w==:117 Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2524:76b6:a865:539c%10]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:19:35 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http Thread-Index: AQHNMqKN91lSNuvWGku8vXNWvmXLmZbOiPUAgAATlgCAADB9gP//kW3g Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:19:35 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928125977@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudmark.com; s=default; t=1337282616; bh=q5ja/xLJYV+eUNgRM8jAXBjHfY0MkcSqEbq3fHnQi2Q=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=miJgryJ6ONVEAOfYG92RJ+2EqTiIEPWsQteXDrnVu9WKDAOkZbrs12P3GhYq9o9hq aPtV7hISHDqdqhx4tphGOdM+k5F+nNPnKTcepW0FhKHCRvZsMLrnoYY0cV8Dl5jmp2 73fuAc/8WObkGpEyTZqi4erWarPd3oI0WQLT3K5c= Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:23:48 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Andy Newton > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:54 AM > To: Julian Reschke > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http >=20 > On May 17, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > > Using URI templates sound promising. >=20 > This keeps coming up, but so far nobody has shown why it is useful. I > think what we want out of URI templating is to be shown what utility it > adds before placing it in the specifications. Mark Nottingham made a good verbal argument for this in Paris, none of whic= h I remember. I've asked him to send me a summary of his points. I'll for= ward it here when I get it. This is important for what's going on in REPUTE as well, for the same reaso= ns. -MSK From aservin@lacnic.net Thu May 17 12:29:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C5521F880B for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:29:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3eHOKxXwO+PF for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E908921F8809 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 85-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.85.172]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29B0308446; Thu, 17 May 2012 16:29:25 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <9566CC8A-04C5-45B3-A05E-69EFFAFCC2DB@arin.net> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:29:16 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <75F5BBA3-7F4E-47B0-A940-7B2740EF4D51@lacnic.net> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> <9566CC8A-04C5-45B3-A05E-69EFFAFCC2DB@arin.net> To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:29:19 -0000 No problem. Cheers, as On 17 May 2012, at 15:56, Andy Newton wrote: > Arturo, >=20 > Would you mind us moving and describing the technique in an appendix = without reserving a specific parameter? > The technique would be to select a parameter unlikely to be used in = the specification, such as "tenterhooksarekewl". >=20 > -andy >=20 > On May 17, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> I found the solution interesting to deal with the problem using = simple agents, but any decent agent should support adding this header. >>=20 >> Point taken. >>=20 >> .as >> =09 >>=20 >> On 17 May 2012, at 14:22, Julian Reschke wrote: >>=20 >>> On 2012-05-17 19:16, Arturo Servin wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> I think it is important to mention it. Otherwise you will end up = with >>>> different approaches to solve the problem for getting fresh = information. >>>> ... >>>=20 >>> Well, the *right* way is to send Cache-Control. >>>=20 >>> "cache busting" using variations in the request-URI is just a hack = that happens to work with broken caches. >>>=20 >>> Best regards, Julian >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From aservin@lacnic.net Thu May 17 12:31:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2291221F8822 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:31:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2KYq8poxID6x for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7355B21F8820 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 85-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.85.172]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F9B308444; Thu, 17 May 2012 16:31:23 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <33CFB1F1-D8D5-4C53-85BD-F86DA266716D@arin.net> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:31:13 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> <9566CC8A-04C5-45B3-A05E-69EFFAFCC2DB@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5FE445@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <33CFB1F1-D8D5-4C53-85BD-F86DA266716D@arin.net> To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:31:18 -0000 A bit late in reading. I do not have a strong argument against keep it, so if it is = better to remove it all, it is ok to me. Regards, .as On 17 May 2012, at 16:07, Andy Newton wrote: > Yeah. He also mentioned moving it to an appendix. > I'm just trying to find a compromise. >=20 > -andy >=20 > On May 17, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >=20 >> Isn't Julian suggesting that we not use the parameter-based approach = at all? >>=20 >> Scott >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf Of Andy Newton >>> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:56 PM >>> To: Arturo Servin >>> Cc: >>> Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http >>>=20 >>> Arturo, >>>=20 >>> Would you mind us moving and describing the technique in an appendix >>> without reserving a specific parameter? >>> The technique would be to select a parameter unlikely to be used in = the >>> specification, such as "tenterhooksarekewl". >>>=20 >>> -andy >>>=20 >>> On May 17, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I found the solution interesting to deal with the problem using >>> simple agents, but any decent agent should support adding this = header. >>>>=20 >>>> Point taken. >>>>=20 >>>> .as >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 17 May 2012, at 14:22, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> On 2012-05-17 19:16, Arturo Servin wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I think it is important to mention it. Otherwise you will end up >>> with >>>>>> different approaches to solve the problem for getting fresh >>> information. >>>>>> ... >>>>>=20 >>>>> Well, the *right* way is to send Cache-Control. >>>>>=20 >>>>> "cache busting" using variations in the request-URI is just a hack >>> that happens to work with broken caches. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best regards, Julian From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 12:34:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7A221F869F for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:34:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BvsUxp2gxkJY for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A519F21F8629 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 May 2012 19:34:46 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp004) with SMTP; 17 May 2012 21:34:46 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+K7VFvLeGKnSUNvi0taDdIkx9TgzEhYoxjudydh1 srxXoOUk3a4GUq Message-ID: <4FB552B5.40900@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 21:34:13 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <20120517173250.5000.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FB537EB.7010908@gmx.de> <309CE4E2-5A61-40EB-8B0C-A979B3F15D26@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <309CE4E2-5A61-40EB-8B0C-A979B3F15D26@arin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: John Levine , "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:34:49 -0000 On 2012-05-17 20:57, Andy Newton wrote: > > On May 17, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > >> On 2012-05-17 19:32, John Levine wrote: >>>> Using URI templates sound promising. >>> >>> I sure hope not. URI templates are a reasonable way to try to put a >>> consistent layer on top of a bunch of existing inconsistent http >>> services. But in this situation, where we're able to spec the URIs >>> from scratch, they're just an extra level of unneeded complexity and >>> cruft. >>> >>> R's, >>> John >> >> I have no problem with the protocol hardwiring things into URIs, if that can be done. But please stay away from the term "restful" then. > > Can you elaborate on this? Are you making a REST purity argument? I'm confused. > Sorry to be thick headed here. If you hard-wire the URI format, and there's no discovery whatsoever, you don't take advantage of . Now my experience is that most of the time, discussions about whether something is "restful" aren't productive. It's not essential that everything is "restful". What's essential is that it works. That's why I initially said that you should stay away from the term unless you really plan to fully embrace it :-). Best regards, Julian From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 12:38:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088E621F873D for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:38:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NC24YUaxWf0j for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C2B8021F873C for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 12:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 May 2012 19:38:03 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp016) with SMTP; 17 May 2012 21:38:03 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19Ncg5JdhhNfttpOKU9zM4MSL5rawYMnFt2nqiSJo 3e0HaJxyxQlZNW Message-ID: <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 21:37:30 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:38:06 -0000 On 2012-05-17 20:54, Andy Newton wrote: > ... >>> Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. >> >> There's still a set of characters that won't be usable in XML (yes, not even escaped). > > That would be&,<, and>. So I guess we should mention those are to be escaped as well. Gosh XML is overly complex. > ... No :-). JSON allows all C0 control characters. XML only allows TAB, CR, and LF. You can't represent the others in plain XML (you can always invent *another* escaping syntax on top of XML, though). And no, XML is not overly complex. It just has certain constraints that make sense for the things it was designed for. Best regards, Julian From andy@hxr.us Thu May 17 13:02:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1F4B21F87D1 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:02:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id feSGNJ11UUaj for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F01821F87D0 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so2666994yhq.31 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:02:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=LUTvhm0NpFUE7+S02bAprYpMAcNwYWq3KRSHuqWUTe4=; b=X9DWa5Z/fu2/KagKBqgBz4HHiE17rGxA8I5GbR4Nu3CRJfjhrFKbJuZ9k47+8w6+FJ ArpJVB5Nr9FTcHlreZLVjsA4sHANBG6v2I7TBtK1N5qpEQRI3Zk0h2SfstkrpsXUGPar H27duaAEzJ1ZXtkC8dOmwyWPRTGNrnJwoIbG6vLITcXAmq+GIDRYSdYK5su+QX8NouUO qTgCgcbmYihmJubvIZ2tEEJSVWHigjZDyzY5AStTJXs7L4Uj6Ny/4+ZrQ4HLmry2aHWX xigqjJYxxxVX9voMzhhc7Ao9rv/DbtS3gw/aRQKbRWVPN0bs1o9Y6E7iqeMyauDpi5Bd V8Ig== Received: by 10.236.73.41 with SMTP id u29mr5407957yhd.104.1337284929742; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:500:4:15:3861:5c1f:3f1e:6002? ([2001:500:4:15:3861:5c1f:3f1e:6002]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i16sm12268146anm.12.2012.05.17.13.02.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 17 May 2012 13:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:02:06 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6619ABEF-507F-4D72-88C4-423185E78463@hxr.us> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkCUQmvDhtJMmuPcbKnBe7GhvxFpOci3BxH3kWMuZKrYcG05jNJk5LzpIqV+xM17l9p+Y2a Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:02:10 -0000 On May 17, 2012, at 3:37 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2012-05-17 20:54, Andy Newton wrote: >> ... >>>> Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. >>>=20 >>> There's still a set of characters that won't be usable in XML (yes, = not even escaped). >>=20 >> That would be&,<, and>. So I guess we should mention those are to be = escaped as well. Gosh XML is overly complex. >> ... >=20 > No :-). >=20 > JSON allows all C0 control characters. XML only allows TAB, CR, and = LF. You can't represent the others in plain XML (you can always invent = *another* escaping syntax on top of XML, though). Reading section 2.5 of RFC 4627, it says x00 - x1F (the C0 set from what = I understand) must be escaped. The XML would have to be XML 1.1, not XML 1.0. Is that what you are = getting at? -andy= From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 13:07:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 062FA21F85D5 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:07:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XhKKh-JFdOAA for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AFF1D21F85CF for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 May 2012 20:07:53 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp034) with SMTP; 17 May 2012 22:07:53 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX196QYJSDJJ67eoPlde05OSh5nMy//YzolABmIOjss TSDASEFAFFAq4t Message-ID: <4FB55A7A.5000906@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 22:07:22 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> <6619ABEF-507F-4D72-88C4-423185E78463@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <6619ABEF-507F-4D72-88C4-423185E78463@hxr.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:07:56 -0000 On 2012-05-17 22:02, Andy Newton wrote: > > On May 17, 2012, at 3:37 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > >> On 2012-05-17 20:54, Andy Newton wrote: >>> ... >>>>> Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. >>>> >>>> There's still a set of characters that won't be usable in XML (yes, not even escaped). >>> >>> That would be&,<, and>. So I guess we should mention those are to be escaped as well. Gosh XML is overly complex. >>> ... >> >> No :-). >> >> JSON allows all C0 control characters. XML only allows TAB, CR, and LF. You can't represent the others in plain XML (you can always invent *another* escaping syntax on top of XML, though). > > Reading section 2.5 of RFC 4627, it says x00 - x1F (the C0 set from what I understand) must be escaped. > The XML would have to be XML 1.1, not XML 1.0. Is that what you are getting at? Right, it might work with XML 1.1, but nobody is using XML 1.1. It's dead for all practical purposes. Don't go near it. Best regards, Julian From andy@arin.net Thu May 17 13:10:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E54821F8686 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:10:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uhzl22ynFYkG for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E58C721F85D5 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 8F0AF213685; Thu, 17 May 2012 16:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1025D213631; Thu, 17 May 2012 16:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 17 May 2012 16:10:06 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.4]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 17 May 2012 16:10:21 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Julian Reschke Thread-Topic: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http Thread-Index: AQHNMqKPZqJhq//TLk+q9jbSHfxA95bOVqoAgAATlgCAABmyAIAAAfuAgAAVxQCAAAoqgIAAChcA Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:10:20 +0000 Message-ID: <17AD5E3E-8933-4E1A-9618-B174FC2C9F41@arin.net> References: <20120517173250.5000.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FB537EB.7010908@gmx.de> <309CE4E2-5A61-40EB-8B0C-A979B3F15D26@arin.net> <4FB552B5.40900@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4FB552B5.40900@gmx.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: John Levine , "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:10:42 -0000 On May 17, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2012-05-17 20:57, Andy Newton wrote: >>=20 >> On May 17, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: >>=20 >>> On 2012-05-17 19:32, John Levine wrote: >>>>> Using URI templates sound promising. >>>>=20 >>>> I sure hope not. URI templates are a reasonable way to try to put a >>>> consistent layer on top of a bunch of existing inconsistent http >>>> services. But in this situation, where we're able to spec the URIs >>>> from scratch, they're just an extra level of unneeded complexity and >>>> cruft. >>>>=20 >>>> R's, >>>> John >>>=20 >>> I have no problem with the protocol hardwiring things into URIs, if tha= t can be done. But please stay away from the term "restful" then. >>=20 >> Can you elaborate on this? Are you making a REST purity argument? I'm co= nfused. >> Sorry to be thick headed here. >=20 > If you hard-wire the URI format, and there's no discovery whatsoever, you= don't take advantage of . >=20 > Now my experience is that most of the time, discussions about whether som= ething is "restful" aren't productive. It's not essential that everything i= s "restful". What's essential is that it works. >=20 > That's why I initially said that you should stay away from the term unles= s you really plan to fully embrace it :-). We are using the term RESTful and not REST, which is generally interpreted = as borrowing from REST but not being totally compliant to the principles. -andy= From fobispo@isc.org Thu May 17 13:13:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA65E21F86F4 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:13:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SRbfwBE78iDZ for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5AA21F8734 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7570BC9712; Thu, 17 May 2012 20:13:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:a559:51fe:97d2:20a3] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:a559:51fe:97d2:20a3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4BC4A216C33; Thu, 17 May 2012 20:13:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:13:07 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:13:24 -0000 If you need to specify non-ascii characters in an XML document, you = either have to: a) Encode the characters in their XML entities =F1 -> ñ or b) use a CDATA instruction: Unparsed Character Data [1] [1] http://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_cdata.asp The latter approach seems to be more efficient for some. On May 17, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2012-05-17 20:54, Andy Newton wrote: >> ... >>>> Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. >>>=20 >>> There's still a set of characters that won't be usable in XML (yes, = not even escaped). >>=20 >> That would be&,<, and>. So I guess we should mention those are to be = escaped as well. Gosh XML is overly complex. >> ... >=20 > No :-). >=20 > JSON allows all C0 control characters. XML only allows TAB, CR, and = LF. You can't represent the others in plain XML (you can always invent = *another* escaping syntax on top of XML, though). >=20 > And no, XML is not overly complex. It just has certain constraints = that make sense for the things it was designed for. >=20 > Best regards, Julian > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 13:15:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E4221F8711 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:15:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.579 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.579 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fH3NkYnsCWLw for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 693C021F86F8 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 May 2012 20:15:35 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp041) with SMTP; 17 May 2012 22:15:35 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19lCJgQsiBl0PVxeRFRwDUPCwYGe1exMya/R4pMjQ mvQkEQYCcw3Xs6 Message-ID: <4FB55C46.8020202@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 22:15:02 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <20120517173250.5000.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FB537EB.7010908@gmx.de> <309CE4E2-5A61-40EB-8B0C-A979B3F15D26@arin.net> <4FB552B5.40900@gmx.de> <17AD5E3E-8933-4E1A-9618-B174FC2C9F41@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <17AD5E3E-8933-4E1A-9618-B174FC2C9F41@arin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: John Levine , "" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:15:37 -0000 On 2012-05-17 22:10, Andy Newton wrote: > ... >> That's why I initially said that you should stay away from the term unless you really plan to fully embrace it :-). > > We are using the term RESTful and not REST, which is generally interpreted as borrowing from REST but not being totally compliant to the principles. > ... Citation needed. In doubt, consult :-) Best regards, Julian From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 13:24:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E4721F87A2 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:24:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.58 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mbThSm80F+qS for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4843921F87E9 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 May 2012 20:24:52 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp070) with SMTP; 17 May 2012 22:24:52 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/4MSdYg7b4YYS3Yq1H6cuPEsphXE+4Vgdh+h74eY Ln0q6jVd2UrhTj Message-ID: <4FB55E74.3050008@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 22:24:20 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francisco Obispo References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:24:54 -0000 On 2012-05-17 22:13, Francisco Obispo wrote: > If you need to specify non-ascii characters in an XML document, you either have to: > > a) Encode the characters in their XML entities ñ -> ñ or 1) You can use those "as-is", if you declare the document encoding properly (such as by using UTF-8). 2) That doesn't change the repertoire of characters you can use. 3) Also, it's ASCII control characters which are a problem. > b) use a CDATA instruction: Unparsed Character Data [1] > > [1] http://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_cdata.asp -> > The latter approach seems to be more efficient for some. And it doesn't help at all. In CDATA, you don't need to escape "<" and "&", but in turn there are *other* sequences you can't use. See -- you can't have the string "]]>" inside CDATA because it ends the CDATA section. My recommendation is never ever to use CDATA unless when hand-editing *and* when you absolute positively know what you do. If you generate with a program, don't ever use it. Best regards, Julian From fobispo@isc.org Thu May 17 13:53:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6115A21F8753 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:53:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iF8Xy3qG5Wa7 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A7521F8746 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F91E5F99EB; Thu, 17 May 2012 20:53:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:a559:51fe:97d2:20a3] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:a559:51fe:97d2:20a3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC188216C33; Thu, 17 May 2012 20:53:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <4FB55E74.3050008@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:53:33 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> <4FB55E74.3050008@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:53:54 -0000 Did a bit more research and = http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-controls proposes what I = had in mind, which is encoding the content using something like base64 = and decoding it before presentation. (ugly) I might be missing something, but why are we arguing about this? I don't = think we're planning to pass control codes within the XML..=20 Francisco On May 17, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2012-05-17 22:13, Francisco Obispo wrote: >> If you need to specify non-ascii characters in an XML document, you = either have to: >>=20 >> a) Encode the characters in their XML entities =F1 -> ñ or >=20 > 1) You can use those "as-is", if you declare the document encoding = properly (such as by using UTF-8). >=20 > 2) That doesn't change the repertoire of characters you can use. >=20 > 3) Also, it's ASCII control characters which are a problem. >=20 >> b) use a CDATA instruction: Unparsed Character Data [1] >>=20 >> [1] http://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_cdata.asp >=20 > -> >=20 >> The latter approach seems to be more efficient for some. >=20 > And it doesn't help at all. In CDATA, you don't need to escape "<" and = "&", but in turn there are *other* sequences you can't use. See = -- you can't have the = string "]]>" inside CDATA because it ends the CDATA section. >=20 > My recommendation is never ever to use CDATA unless when hand-editing = *and* when you absolute positively know what you do. If you generate = with a program, don't ever use it. >=20 > Best regards, Julian Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From sm@resistor.net Thu May 17 15:09:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D3221F876A for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:09:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.113, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yhzHWyNpLNnJ for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAAFE21F8764 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q4HM8x3l024865; Thu, 17 May 2012 15:09:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1337292549; i=@resistor.net; bh=nluS4nf2jheOjdk9AWqrhPItr+vqOU27kTb9t5JYspc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=q0+9SUxpC7Fd0fSw3e5NFYwRJQKUvAThC+hTZoE2zeanws5nwvpMj/K+xyqUkeyOf MKK717ZWlIZBdfCQtN+SgHNoAyzdoCYI6lhrWybb0CSfDoaGWc/A6/4v+gcpw6hmU5 RQz6M1yoFnZt7uMPAWgXxBI5vudu+6BYW0cUIVts= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1337292549; i=@resistor.net; bh=nluS4nf2jheOjdk9AWqrhPItr+vqOU27kTb9t5JYspc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=L8BUEUI9RwU9yeGP8ZfP+vFHs60z7fCnGrcbiWgFiIkhp1t/phmhwiCBFCiDysGmk 14kA1xEYQ05R+xyDpAv3ayz3g6+/CjmwzP4av06MJRTAnr7qBIOF8KJBUFS3x3cXEn ZHfEQT6WSWL9NBgSV93ek7o/yXL9piM+FewGmwKY= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120517145909.0ade6df0@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 15:00:02 -0700 To: Arturo Servin , Julian Reschke From: SM In-Reply-To: <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <18A3C630-38CD-471B-9877-C8D78228B585@lacnic.net> <4FB533CC.8080406@gmx.de> <72D47F61-1972-42EF-A9A2-A2CE8C029A65@lacnic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 22:09:13 -0000 Hi Arturo, At 10:43 17-05-2012, Arturo Servin wrote: > I found the solution interesting to deal with the problem > using simple agents, but any decent agent should support adding this header. The problem is generally "middleboxes". Regards, -sm P.S. I'll defer to Julian From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu May 17 23:49:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A9A21F86A0 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 23:49:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.581 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.581 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fVkfMHWG3BGg for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 23:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E206321F8687 for ; Thu, 17 May 2012 23:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 May 2012 06:49:54 -0000 Received: from p54BB26EE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [84.187.38.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp027) with SMTP; 18 May 2012 08:49:54 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX196kXddmdF6VekzczqI+VCRiQg0+Y+aLxDbEv98xT FBajgWPOmyE2oj Message-ID: <4FB5F111.3050501@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 08:49:53 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francisco Obispo References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> <4FB5537A.9060208@gmx.de> <4FB55E74.3050008@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 06:49:56 -0000 On 2012-05-17 22:53, Francisco Obispo wrote: > Did a bit more research and http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-controls proposes what I had in mind, which is encoding the content using something like base64 and decoding it before presentation. (ugly) > > I might be missing something, but why are we arguing about this? I don't think we're planning to pass control codes within the XML.. > ... I raised the point because the text is incomplete. If you state that the value never contain control characters beyond TAB CR LF, the problem goes indeed away. Best regards, Julian From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Mon May 21 04:18:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FCA21F85F7 for ; Mon, 21 May 2012 04:18:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IHoKvzrc4f2m for ; Mon, 21 May 2012 04:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3E15421F860F for ; Mon, 21 May 2012 04:18:11 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Mon, 21 May 2012 19:18:08 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Andy Newton'" , References: <20120510195151.23028.40300.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:18:02 +0800 Message-ID: <000001cd3743$6608ed50$321ac7f0$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AQHNLuY3lSJedWl3IEmjOyNfwMsfD5bUJhsQ Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 11:18:13 -0000 The MIME type should be application/json, not application\json defined in rfc4627, right? Linlin Zhou CNNIC > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Andy Newton > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 3:54 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: [weirds] Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt > > A bunch of us in the names and numbers areas have worked on a draft to define > the common behavior for using HTTP so that a client writer can have the same > set of usage expectations for both numbers usage and names usage. > > Here 'tis. > > -andy > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: > > Subject: New Version Notification for > > draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt > > Date: May 10, 2012 3:51:51 PM EDT > > To: > > Cc: , , > > , , , > > , , > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt has been > successfully submitted by Andrew Lee Newton and posted to the IETF > repository. > > > > Filename: draft-designteam-weirds-using-http > > Revision: 00 > > Title: Using HTTP for RESTful Whois Services by Internet Registries > > Creation date: 2012-05-10 > > WG ID: Individual Submission > > Number of pages: 19 > > > > Abstract: > > This document describes the use of HTTP in Whois services using > > RESTful web methodologies. > > > > > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From andy@arin.net Mon May 21 05:51:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0DA21F84FC for ; Mon, 21 May 2012 05:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FGaFpEjB-KgG for ; Mon, 21 May 2012 05:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83AB121F8495 for ; Mon, 21 May 2012 05:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id EE56421363D; Mon, 21 May 2012 08:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28D221359C; Mon, 21 May 2012 08:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Mon, 21 May 2012 08:50:39 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.4]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Mon, 21 May 2012 08:50:43 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Linlin Zhou Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHNN1BVhDzkM0ONc0KE+RLsvAcamA== Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 12:50:43 +0000 Message-ID: <573175A3-5A77-40E4-8180-821127BCAAB3@arin.net> References: <20120510195151.23028.40300.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000001cd3743$6608ed50$321ac7f0$@cn> In-Reply-To: <000001cd3743$6608ed50$321ac7f0$@cn> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 12:51:05 -0000 Yes. -andy On May 21, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Linlin Zhou wrote: > The MIME type should be application/json, not application\json defined in > rfc4627, right? >=20 > Linlin Zhou > CNNIC >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of >> Andy Newton >> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 3:54 AM >> To: weirds@ietf.org >> Subject: [weirds] Fwd: New Version Notification for >> draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt >>=20 >> A bunch of us in the names and numbers areas have worked on a draft to > define >> the common behavior for using HTTP so that a client writer can have the > same >> set of usage expectations for both numbers usage and names usage. >>=20 >> Here 'tis. >>=20 >> -andy >>=20 >> Begin forwarded message: >>=20 >>> From: >>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>> draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt >>> Date: May 10, 2012 3:51:51 PM EDT >>> To: >>> Cc: , , >>> , , , >>> , , >>>=20 >>> A new version of I-D, draft-designteam-weirds-using-http-00.txt has bee= n >> successfully submitted by Andrew Lee Newton and posted to the IETF >> repository. >>>=20 >>> Filename: draft-designteam-weirds-using-http >>> Revision: 00 >>> Title: Using HTTP for RESTful Whois Services by Internet > Registries >>> Creation date: 2012-05-10 >>> WG ID: Individual Submission >>> Number of pages: 19 >>>=20 >>> Abstract: >>> This document describes the use of HTTP in Whois services using >>> RESTful web methodologies. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF Secretariat >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 From alexandrsergeyev@gmail.com Wed May 23 10:59:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 716AC21F877C for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 10:59:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NcgDET0Xr37D for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 10:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-f172.google.com (mail-we0-f172.google.com [74.125.82.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 902A521F8776 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 10:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by werb13 with SMTP id b13so4433627wer.31 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 10:59:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=INsJIisv2UH5p7zsgV9UiRATEsZLNl6YNxqU67ekJD0=; b=gNIFbPu4vE9b0SJdbm5FuUHo/zb0wbS4HjnhYZe1nQYS/icQ62QI8VDM2CRkjARtW6 64+gxzkFNoOyNWjWmBhtmkklnafavY93CraXlATOB1+1RLpRLZ0EMWGdMSp5K8CZuYAa mYSk86tg6tfjinZ5M0LgRsZcZHf60TPk5goq1zSC/TBNyFRcMneqZb4zS19ybMKgbsbA SV4kI1UihWvuptlWsV4/wJv/t+pDI/tNp+0TFiHi8mU88LGrJmN6khJij/1NAvZHoBRh GCZYRV7E0RzAYw6PXZJ8jYylBOR5AYv8O3zQ9fc/0Pr/Mu5kax52Zfyy432SHaPjtpaO zNJg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.101.103 with SMTP id ff7mr48420902wib.6.1337795941145; Wed, 23 May 2012 10:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Sender: alexandrsergeyev@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.206.68 with HTTP; Wed, 23 May 2012 10:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:59:01 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: FXZK3s_kQP-WB1VjL-9H6-HzIJY Message-ID: From: Alex Sergeyev To: weirds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 17:59:05 -0000 Hi, I have a small question/proposal about weirds JSON responce format. Mostly about "uris" section in examples from http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 { "handle" : "XXXX-RIR", "startAddress" : "10.0.0.0", "endAddress" : "10.0.0.255", "ipVersion" : 4, "name": "NET-RTR-1", "description" : [ "A network used for routing" ], "type" : "DIRECT ALLOCATION", "country" : "AU", "parentHandle" : "YYYY-RIR", "remarks" : [ "she sells seas shells", "down by the seashore" ], "uris" : [ { "type" : "source", "uri" : "http://whois-rws.net/network/xxxx" }, { "type" : "parent", "uri" : "http://whois-rws.net/network/yyyy" }, { "type" : "held", "uri" : "http://example.net/location/xxxx" } ], "registrationDate" : "20110509", "lastChangedDate" : "20110509", "lastChangedBy" : "joe@bob.com" } In my opinion, "type" inside of each URI section is really not saying much. Would anyone agree that automated tools would be easier to design if say it'll be "ref" element instead. and it would refer to actual keys inside of JSON: "uris" : [ { "ref" : "source", "type": "network", "uri" : "http://whois-rws.net/network/xxxx" }, { "ref" : "parentHandle", "type": "network", "uri" : "http://whois-rws.net/network/yyyy" }, { "type" : "held", "ref" : null, "uri" : "http://example.net/location/xxxx" } ], Something in this sense, that will allow automatic tools to make better judgement of URIs. Also in case of contacts for domain registrations it would be nice to do structured "refs", like ' "ref": "contact/tech" ' I do have another note about generic "status" field for all future JSON info responses. I'm adding it here because it makes sense if things above are interesting. Right now, similar to EPP in domain registration world WEIRDS will likely show: status: ["clientTransferProhibited", "clientDeleteProhibited", "clientUpdateProhibited"] which in my opinion is not having value to consumer of WEIRDS info. When I find info about domains for EPP purposes, I need to differentiate between "clientTransferProhibited" and "serverTransferProhibited". And I will. But, when i'm in WHOIS/WEIRDS context, I think it's unnecessary information. My goal is to find few basic bits of data: "status" : { "transferProhibited" : true, "updateProhibited" : true, "deleteProhibited" : true, "Hold" : false } same thing, it'll help to add additional info URIs to those elements: { "ref" : "status/Hold", "uri": .... } meaning that ideally you can EXTEND that status block with meaningful keys It might be impractical for all interested parties for sure but I just thought to start this conversation while working on toy implementation for our own needs. Sincerely, Alex Sergeyev, Dyn Labs From andy@arin.net Wed May 23 13:24:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E8511E80A4 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AodYlMRWzwBW for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E57F11E80A3 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 96433213639; Wed, 23 May 2012 16:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E102135EF; Wed, 23 May 2012 16:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Wed, 23 May 2012 16:23:57 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.4]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Wed, 23 May 2012 16:24:09 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Alex Sergeyev Thread-Topic: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 Thread-Index: AQHNOQ3HCBkP6G9LTkuMX0HULxvnu5bYE4sA Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 20:24:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6BD8D5BF4008764B879BC1CA150E71DF@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 20:24:12 -0000 On May 23, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Alex Sergeyev wrote: > In my opinion, "type" inside of each URI section is really not saying muc= h. > Would anyone agree that automated tools would be easier to design if > say it'll be "ref" element instead. and it would refer to actual keys > inside of JSON: >=20 >=20 > "uris" : [ > { > "ref" : "source", > "type": "network", > "uri" : "http://whois-rws.net/network/xxxx" > }, > { > "ref" : "parentHandle", > "type": "network", > "uri" : "http://whois-rws.net/network/yyyy" > }, > { > "type" : "held", > "ref" : null, > "uri" : "http://example.net/location/xxxx" > } > ], >=20 That sounds reasonable to me. Though, what would the type be for pointing t= o that network in a legacy system, such as ARIN's current Whois-RWS system?= Would it be "arin_network"? > Something in this sense, that will allow automatic tools to make > better judgement of URIs. Also in case of contacts for domain > registrations it would be nice to do structured "refs", like ' "ref": > "contact/tech" ' >=20 That sounds reasonable to me. > I do have another note about generic "status" field for all future > JSON info responses. I'm adding it here because it makes sense if > things above are interesting. >=20 > Right now, similar to EPP in domain registration world WEIRDS will likely= show: >=20 > status: ["clientTransferProhibited", "clientDeleteProhibited", > "clientUpdateProhibited"] >=20 > which in my opinion is not having value to consumer of WEIRDS info. >=20 > When I find info about domains for EPP purposes, I need to > differentiate between "clientTransferProhibited" and > "serverTransferProhibited". And I will. But, when i'm in WHOIS/WEIRDS > context, I think it's unnecessary information. My goal is to find few > basic bits of data: >=20 > "status" : { > "transferProhibited" : true, > "updateProhibited" : true, > "deleteProhibited" : true, > "Hold" : false > } >=20 That sounds like a good idea. > same thing, it'll help to add additional info URIs to those elements: >=20 > { > "ref" : "status/Hold", > "uri": .... > } >=20 but I don't follow this. Can you provide another example or explain it furt= her? > meaning that ideally you can EXTEND that status block with meaningful key= s -andy= From francisco.arias@icann.org Wed May 23 13:51:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC2E21F85D8 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8AfYWaOq30ft for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B12D21F85D7 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:50:56 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Alex Sergeyev , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:50:49 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 Thread-Index: Ac05Jb/I3v+05hz2T9W8FiGDXgkB9A== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 20:51:05 -0000 Hi Alex, See below. On 5/23/12 10:59 AM, "Alex Sergeyev" wrote: >I do have another note about generic "status" field for all future >JSON info responses. I'm adding it here because it makes sense if >things above are interesting. > >Right now, similar to EPP in domain registration world WEIRDS will likely >show: > >status: ["clientTransferProhibited", "clientDeleteProhibited", >"clientUpdateProhibited"] > >which in my opinion is not having value to consumer of WEIRDS info. > >When I find info about domains for EPP purposes, I need to >differentiate between "clientTransferProhibited" and >"serverTransferProhibited". And I will. But, when i'm in WHOIS/WEIRDS >context, I think it's unnecessary information. My goal is to find few >basic bits of data: > >"status" : { > "transferProhibited" : true, > "updateProhibited" : true, > "deleteProhibited" : true, > "Hold" : false >} I disagree, or should I say, it depends on who you are whether you care if it's server or client hold, etc. Perhaps for unsophisticated users it might be enough what you propose, but not for others. For example, in ICANN we process complains from registrants when things go wrong with their registration. We have no other source of information but the public information in the DNRD service provided by the registry/registrar. Having the possibility of differentiating whether an issue is at the registrar or the registry is valuable, to say the less. I can see similar needs for other parties looking at the data. >same thing, it'll help to add additional info URIs to those elements: > >{ >"ref" : "status/Hold", >"uri": .... >} > >meaning that ideally you can EXTEND that status block with meaningful keys Not sure what you mean here. >It might be impractical for all interested parties for sure but I just >thought to start this conversation while working on toy implementation >for our own needs. Great!!! __ Francisco. From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed May 23 19:24:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E6311E80C4 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0+yzzs-t+Oy3 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE14F11E80C0 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 19:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (unknown [100.44.91.110]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D14311ECB41D for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 02:24:37 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:24:35 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120524022435.GB4674@mail.yitter.info> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 02:24:39 -0000 [Full disclosure: Alex is my colleague, but we haven't discussed this email in advance] On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 08:24:08PM +0000, Andy Newton wrote: > That sounds reasonable to me. Though, what would the type be for pointing to that network in a legacy system, such as ARIN's current Whois-RWS system? Would it be "arin_network"? > It seems to me, amazed as I am to be saying this, that we could either invent an IANA registry or else find one that matches our needs (I'm wondering about URI schemes here). If there is one that matches our needs, we might needs to add some entries, but that surely won't be the end of the world. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From alexandrsergeyev@gmail.com Thu May 24 11:05:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1C221F85AC for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:05:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CLNHNiqyMIyn for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D6621F8533 for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so54940wib.13 for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:05:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kuDvdNCvouM2zJHiEBrTyiXHm0gFrJQSCbtv4Jwhs7M=; b=pNYMjpm7CuUDxk36V0b4iPbvsuxCNQ9J249QRtiWvsgLHaQ1lXS7z0gROIRQpTb4s4 835byjgQFBa17YBStOdD3ee0Dldj3MPZCZWj44Uu7sVFfcCFa2UNXAjcFfBfM8MEMtfQ zKJb1/9pPfE8U8OEnGT/Qhm1YHgfOK+0mktCw9OUqpkrsUcjDCTENUiaP4Wj2IDPirK9 N+n++2ZUoPW93llOKkEgg38Vw6JUB8aMHfUtLVUAT4Nce+gwQA0MfOkk+2KAly1cm9NB nlu622jPg6jrLX/jGKF+v1/WmfKl8Njpv9eX1xSgCQ7ljne8z8ABRPLwWl4VYego8evB 3GMw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.135.146 with SMTP id u18mr225151wei.5.1337882716158; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: alexandrsergeyev@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.206.68 with HTTP; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:05:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:05:16 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: GueuRyu7YxXmu-XJ_Zm-9ibZ1oE Message-ID: From: Alex Sergeyev To: weirds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 18:05:18 -0000 Andy, Francisco, everyone, let me comment what I meant >>status: ["clientTransferProhibited", "clientDeleteProhibited", >>"clientUpdateProhibited"] >> >>"status" : { >> =C2=A0 "transferProhibited" : true, >> =C2=A0 "updateProhibited" =C2=A0: true, >> =C2=A0 "deleteProhibited" =C2=A0 : true, >> =C2=A0 "Hold" : false >>} > I disagree, or should I say, it depends on who you are whether you care i= f > it's server or client hold, etc. Perhaps for unsophisticated users it > might be enough what you propose, but not for others. I wish you would comment on reasons why ICANN cannot use EPP but I can imagine it might be "complicated" :) Anyhow, I''m not pushing for this change. It just was logical to have object structure vs array of literals. Not critical though. >>{ >>"ref" : "status/Hold", >>"uri": .... >>} >>meaning that ideally you can EXTEND that status block with meaningful key= s What I meant here is that sometimes we need to have info-service for new kinds of statuses, and URIs section could become neat explanation for details about that status. { =C2=A0 =C2=A0status: { =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 something : true =C2=A0 =C2=A0}, =C2=A0 =C2=A0... =C2=A0 =C2=A0uris: [ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0{ =C2=A0ref: status/something, =C2=A0uri: more-i= nfo-here } =C2=A0 =C2=A0] } So far as I don't see any "oh it could be useful for us", I think I'm over-complicating it :) Will only continue with my idea about "ref" element for "uris" array then. -- Alex From aservin@lacnic.net Thu May 24 11:14:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA7611E80AB for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:14:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cJG8canoxNjR for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B906E11E80A4 for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 11:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 85-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.85.172]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68878308445; Thu, 24 May 2012 15:14:38 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 15:14:29 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <98BFEC22-75AC-432E-BC6C-5DACB9DFA682@lacnic.net> References: To: Alex Sergeyev X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 18:14:34 -0000 Hi, I am a bit confused. We are discussing = draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01, which is for numbers, no = names. So basically, unless I am mistaken no RIR have these status in = the allocations/assignments they made. "status" : { "transferProhibited" : true, "updateProhibited" : true, "deleteProhibited" : true, "Hold" : false } In any case, a resource is either: allocated, assigned, reserved = or available. Or are we talking about other kind of status? For names, I guess we could recycle the same structure (status) = but with different content (as suggested by Alex). Regards, as =09 On 24 May 2012, at 15:05, Alex Sergeyev wrote: > Andy, Francisco, everyone, >=20 > let me comment what I meant >=20 >>> status: ["clientTransferProhibited", "clientDeleteProhibited", >>> "clientUpdateProhibited"] >>>=20 >>> "status" : { >>> "transferProhibited" : true, >>> "updateProhibited" : true, >>> "deleteProhibited" : true, >>> "Hold" : false >>> } >=20 >> I disagree, or should I say, it depends on who you are whether you = care if >> it's server or client hold, etc. Perhaps for unsophisticated users it >> might be enough what you propose, but not for others. >=20 > I wish you would comment on reasons why ICANN cannot use EPP but I can > imagine it might be "complicated" :) > Anyhow, I''m not pushing for this change. It just was logical to have > object structure vs array of literals. Not critical though. >=20 >>> { >>> "ref" : "status/Hold", >>> "uri": .... >>> } >>> meaning that ideally you can EXTEND that status block with = meaningful keys >=20 > What I meant here is that sometimes we need to have info-service for > new kinds of statuses, and URIs section could become neat explanation > for details about that status. >=20 > { > status: { > something : true > }, > ... > uris: [ > { ref: status/something, uri: more-info-here } > ] > } >=20 > So far as I don't see any "oh it could be useful for us", I think I'm > over-complicating it :) Will only continue with my idea about "ref" > element for "uris" array then. >=20 >=20 > -- > Alex > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From francisco.arias@icann.org Thu May 24 18:06:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7C411E8081 for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sdnHdLkOcKST for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 18:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA3111E8080 for ; Thu, 24 May 2012 18:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Thu, 24 May 2012 18:06:53 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Alex Sergeyev , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 18:06:46 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 Thread-Index: Ac06EqsV0jYKoh3ORtWFuLbZQ8TKcg== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 01:06:54 -0000 See below. On 5/24/12 11:05 AM, "Alex Sergeyev" wrote: >Andy, Francisco, everyone, > >let me comment what I meant > >>>status: ["clientTransferProhibited", "clientDeleteProhibited", >>>"clientUpdateProhibited"] >>> >>>"status" : { >>> "transferProhibited" : true, >>> "updateProhibited" : true, >>> "deleteProhibited" : true, >>> "Hold" : false >>>} > >> I disagree, or should I say, it depends on who you are whether you care >>if >> it's server or client hold, etc. Perhaps for unsophisticated users it >> might be enough what you propose, but not for others. > >I wish you would comment on reasons why ICANN cannot use EPP but I can >imagine it might be "complicated" :) >Anyhow, I''m not pushing for this change. It just was logical to have >object structure vs array of literals. Not critical though. That was just an example, but I think in general you would want to have the full information available. >>>{ >>>"ref" : "status/Hold", >>>"uri": .... >>>} >>>meaning that ideally you can EXTEND that status block with meaningful >>>keys > >What I meant here is that sometimes we need to have info-service for >new kinds of statuses, and URIs section could become neat explanation >for details about that status. > >{ > status: { > something : true > }, > ... > uris: [ > { ref: status/something, uri: more-info-here } > ] >} > >So far as I don't see any "oh it could be useful for us", I think I'm >over-complicating it :) Will only continue with my idea about "ref" >element for "uris" array then. About having and URI that provides information about the meaning of the status, I like that. Actually, I remember there is a new policy that is already approved or in the works to have precisely that requirement in the gTLD world. __ Francisco. From vesely@tana.it Fri May 25 07:29:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E3621F8602 for ; Fri, 25 May 2012 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.719 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.719 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbhE+hXroQ+A for ; Fri, 25 May 2012 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (www.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006DA21F8541 for ; Fri, 25 May 2012 07:29:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1337956173; bh=QVrlQ7MJOKWBcuhvbtRwGaWwzQjAREbXg/8CyjBhYUI=; l=1581; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=eleVdwuXSB0JvPkOYdmkS35wslVBzuAnqZhr9S30K4824c/KJ466NmOTZ9uQetJY2 wAh8yYCcqJcG+TExRpxV/KFV012p4quFCEe/9hMPjFEmoZFhULCuEpRWckkiPnF6Po 92uMVCVV2crzEcoo3ZW32rimsKEx6f4Ty3gAVyQk= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Fri, 25 May 2012 16:29:33 +0200 id 00000000005DC033.000000004FBF974D.00002516 Message-ID: <4FBF974D.8030600@tana.it> Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 16:29:33 +0200 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:29:35 -0000 On Fri 25/May/2012 03:06:46 +0200 Francisco Arias wrote: > On 5/24/12 11:05 AM, "Alex Sergeyev" wrote: > >> What I meant here is that sometimes we need to have info-service for >> new kinds of statuses, and URIs section could become neat explanation >> for details about that status. >> >> { >> status: { >> something : true >> }, >> ... >> uris: [ >> { ref: status/something, uri: more-info-here } >> ] >> } > > About having an URI that provides information about the meaning of the > status, I like that. While I like that too, I wonder why do we need to have cross references within the same record, rather than, say: { "transferProhibited" : { "status": true}, "updateProhibited" : { "status": true}, "deleteProhibited" : { "status": true}, "Hold" : { "status": false, "uri": non-empty-uri-here} } The same question holds for entities, where Section 5 has: { "handle" : "XXXX-RIR", "names": [ "Joe Bob, Inc.", "Bobby Joe Shopping" ], "emails" : [ "joe@bob.com", "bob@joe.com" ], // ... } If there were a relationship between names and emails, like the exemplified data tend to suggest, it might be simpler to make it explicit, for example like so: { "handle" : "XXXX-RIR", "people": [ { "name": "Joe Bob, Inc.", "email": "joe@bob.com"}, { "name": "Bobby Joe Shopping", "email": "bob@joe.com"}], // ... } The former representation is more compact, the latter less ambiguous. Note: I'm not proposing a change, just querying the design choices and the rationale behind them. From andy@arin.net Fri May 25 07:56:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8EB21F86B1 for ; Fri, 25 May 2012 07:56:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id glPaw1qQLyqh for ; Fri, 25 May 2012 07:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E1521F8650 for ; Fri, 25 May 2012 07:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id D3194164FB6; Fri, 25 May 2012 10:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05485164F8A; Fri, 25 May 2012 10:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Fri, 25 May 2012 10:56:11 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.4]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 25 May 2012 10:56:33 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Alessandro Vesely Thread-Topic: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 Thread-Index: AQHNOdfFCBkP6G9LTkuMX0HULxvnu5bZ9K0AgADgTICAAAeKAA== Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:56:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4FBF974D.8030600@tana.it> In-Reply-To: <4FBF974D.8030600@tana.it> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <27BB0F76D80C8C41A0695042DB526F88@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:56:35 -0000 On May 25, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > The same question holds for entities, where Section 5 has: >=20 > { > "handle" : "XXXX-RIR", > "names": [ "Joe Bob, Inc.", "Bobby Joe Shopping" ], > "emails" : [ "joe@bob.com", "bob@joe.com" ], > // ... > } >=20 > If there were a relationship between names and emails, like the > exemplified data tend to suggest, it might be simpler to make it > explicit, for example like so: >=20 > { > "handle" : "XXXX-RIR", > "people": [ > { "name": "Joe Bob, Inc.", > "email": "joe@bob.com"}, > { "name": "Bobby Joe Shopping", > "email": "bob@joe.com"}], > // ... > } >=20 > The former representation is more compact, the latter less ambiguous. You are assuming a one-to-one relationship, and that is not necessarily tru= e. Also the mapping is that the entity has a set of names and a set of emai= ls, not that the entity has a set of name/email pairs. -andy= From alexandrsergeyev@gmail.com Sat May 26 05:30:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA6C21F85C3 for ; Sat, 26 May 2012 05:30:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UnqGyMwlqWQq for ; Sat, 26 May 2012 05:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-f44.google.com (mail-wg0-f44.google.com [74.125.82.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A534921F856F for ; Sat, 26 May 2012 05:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgbdr13 with SMTP id dr13so1150301wgb.13 for ; Sat, 26 May 2012 05:30:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LT2GubOLOe1ZADaCUQufS7uN2ZvH2fe9liUvuxEyVyE=; b=dSc4yDkmxUC3yw++UXFyjOk7hqnJ5Sl9AoQIq0G0U7CPxaZLRaubvfA3+kziTH7jEI rSmNAFJNSLIQNaKowOOGCNf4/GiiIgyyJ4+WXOfo0UMQQCG/OrcALc7KPv4HjU3y2huw ugKmPCBK677NrHAvu6U+Ef61FiIaPVb/TGCpNFFxEU1gwGMcTAgX5yz/pgGCsI0FsWo0 69kFp3AP4bhUdDxHUl7q+1cSR6iZY/+1DOsAlFQWwjtE5X5xNs4qTThe6jdozCUGrLyh mMFVdQlM+Z5v9nBc08Ha3iBOFI+sbGBQFOumyxeRMY5jNlWdXkD6VEScpdHPAHdA6wz4 FB3w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.8.69 with SMTP id p5mr3330005wia.17.1338035457851; Sat, 26 May 2012 05:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: alexandrsergeyev@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.206.68 with HTTP; Sat, 26 May 2012 05:30:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FBF974D.8030600@tana.it> Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:30:57 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: jMG5pdV9U2dv4YSTbps8QkWGTxA Message-ID: From: Alex Sergeyev To: weirds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [weirds] URIs in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 12:30:59 -0000 > { > =C2=A0 "transferProhibited" : =C2=A0{ "status": true}, > =C2=A0 "updateProhibited" =C2=A0: =C2=A0{ "status": true}, > =C2=A0 "deleteProhibited" =C2=A0 : =C2=A0{ "status": true}, > =C2=A0 "Hold" : =C2=A0{ "status": false, > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "uri": non-empty-uri-her= e} > } My original thought about JSON format (before I saw draft proposals) was to have something like that, putting URIs close to things they describe... BUT, when I read the document, it made way more sense for automated parser and generator to have things in one place, rather than checking every field to be "just value" or "value and uri". I'm not saying that your format makes things any worse. I'm just thinking that URIS block can be a flexible tool to put any link you would need to show. Alex. From maarten.wullink@sidn.nl Wed May 30 00:13:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77C411E8080 for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 00:13:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5GrFLwUId05o for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 00:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ede1-kamx.sidn.nl (kamx.sidn.nl [94.198.152.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEAB011E8079 for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 00:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kahubcas1.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.41]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id q4U7Dfk5030539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL) for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 09:13:41 +0200 Received: from KAHUBCASN01.SIDN.local (192.168.2.75) by KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Wed, 30 May 2012 09:13:33 +0200 Received: from KAMBX2.SIDN.local ([fe80::b1fd:88d9:e136:9655]) by kahubcasn01.SIDN.local ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Wed, 30 May 2012 09:13:32 +0200 From: Maarten Wullink To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http Thread-Index: AQHNMqKQOmpHM0Br9EeC8avtWVbAUZbN8hUAgAATlgCAADB9gIATyiyQ Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 07:13:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.2.94] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 07:13:44 -0000 I would suggest removing the versioning information from the content-type. Put the version information in the URL itself, like this where "v1" is the = version 1 of the API. /base/v1/domains/example.com This way is clear what version of the API the client is connecting to and y= ou do Not have to abuse the content-type for this. For more about versioning see: http://blog.apigee.com/taglist/versioning application\weirds_blah_v1+json -----Original Message----- From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Andy Newton Sent: donderdag 17 mei 2012 20:54 To: Julian Reschke Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http On May 17, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > Using URI templates sound promising. This keeps coming up, but so far nobody has shown why it is useful. I think= what we want out of URI templating is to be shown what utility it adds bef= ore placing it in the specifications. >>> b) s/MIME type/media type/ >>>=20 >>> Accept header. Servers SHOULD respond with an appropriate MIME type >>> in the Accept header in accordance with the preference rules for the >>> Accept header in HTTP [RFC2616]. However the use by clients of >>> multiple MIME types in the Accept header is NOT RECOMMENDED. >>>=20 >>> It's not clear to me why you're profiling HTTP here. >>=20 >> Because for this application, clients will probably only know one format= . The need to use the complex rules for specifying multiple formats is unne= cessary. >=20 > I don't follow. Servers need to process the Accept header field according= to RFC 2616. Are you saying they can rely on it being simpler? In which ca= se, this would need to be a "MUST NOT". Uh, yeah. I think I'm trying to have it both ways. It's probably best to si= mply remove this. >>> that it desires JSON or "application\weirds_blah_v1+json" to express >>> that it desires WEIRDS BLAH version 1 in JSON. The server MUST >>> respond with "application\weirds_blah_v1+json". >>>=20 >>> This seems to invent a new concept of media ranges in content negotiati= on that didn't exist before. Why is this needed? >>=20 >> For signaling the version of the schema desired. Is there another method= you feel is more appropriate? >=20 > The method is probably ok, but the way it was explained was confusing: cl= ient specifies it wants "A", but server is allowed to return "B" (and label= it as "B"), if it has out-of-band info that the client will understand it,= too. Note that here "A" and "B" could be any media type (the label is real= ly opaque). Ok. I'll look into cleaning this up. >=20 >>> 5.2. Redirects >>>=20 >>> If a server wishes to inform a client that the answer to a given >>> query can be found elsewhere, it should return either a 301 or a 303 >>> reponse code and an HTTP URL in the Redirect header. The client is >>>=20 >>> s/reponse/response/ >>>=20 >>> expected to issue a subsequent query using the given URL without any >>> processing of the URL. In other words, the server is to hand back a >>> complete URL and the client should not have to transform the URL to >>> follow it. >>>=20 >>> HTTPbis allows relative URIs here, and so should this protocol. >>=20 >> Why? It is simpler for the clients if the URLs are absolute. >=20 > Do not profile the base protocol unless there is a very very good reason. I now understand what you are saying. >>> ... >>>=20 >>> 7. Use of XML >>>=20 >>> 7.1. Signaling >>>=20 >>> Clients may signal their desire for XML using the "application\xml" >>> mime type or a more application specific XML mime type. >>>=20 >>> 7.2. Naming and Structure >>>=20 >>> Well-formed XML may be programmatically produced using the JSON >>> encodings due to the JSON naming rules outlined in Section 6.2 and >>> the following simple rules: >>>=20 >>> 1. Where a JSON name is given, the corresponding XML element has the >>> same name. >>>=20 >>> 2. Where a JSON value is found, it is the content of the >>> corresponding XML element. >>>=20 >>> That is not true for all JSON values (consider control characters). >>=20 >> Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. >=20 > There's still a set of characters that won't be usable in XML (yes, not e= ven escaped). That would be &, <, and >. So I guess we should mention those are to be esc= aped as well. Gosh XML is overly complex. Thanks for the input. -andy _______________________________________________ weirds mailing list weirds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From andy@hxr.us Wed May 30 17:48:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172EB11E812C for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 17:48:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pDUytBunmI8U for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 17:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com (mail-ob0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE73C11E8126 for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 17:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbeh20 with SMTP id eh20so572787obb.31 for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 17:48:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=6GS3t14M8t3mwvaCriIAFRfHMZR9IBvJuskHk44Vq2A=; b=nlvLjGUOizPP8BS0siYoGPGrhLRhIN3u2PLmpS1fiWcNi/X6yLXWwuFJ0wOgM4ujVl GJcYosiWGK2UiR8PExhFUml/75my3iDfgLS157B0Jw9Tb03a24IWGvKzr6hpYZQi2GjR YuM87sXwQPAWy5Z3htO4y1EdrRGk0NFZJoWw00WlYnSs66Np008l3RJwHu4SWBfSYNBM /qLWCBI3+fyupb2JS25sTHumTpMt/55LYFJDfVOFD9c8knsu+jJPBjxXrr7eU+NPP/IL /sUDK/g/wMkUc7pn0I98uNM9u2w//PNnEHG6OtcYWGjN6KOcyE/C8t9OlypRm9whmHUy T+8Q== Received: by 10.182.11.69 with SMTP id o5mr179517obb.33.1338425286138; Wed, 30 May 2012 17:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.6] (ip68-98-152-27.dc.dc.cox.net. [68.98.152.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id zn5sm1173738obb.18.2012.05.30.17.48.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 30 May 2012 17:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 20:48:02 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4FB26082.3070800@gmx.de> <9B94D739-E037-4539-82E8-0E79BBFEC543@hxr.us> <4FB520B4.1070803@gmx.de> To: Maarten Wullink X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn+gzfDrAYy5PqOh+Tr0dEtTnwAYoGbJgZsQ0zjECK3f1ummK8MP+UzG4PjymvfUMy/CwiS Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 00:48:08 -0000 Maarten, Using media types for versioning RESTful interfaces has been quite = common in the industry for years. I would hardly call it abusive. Here = is an old post by Peter Williams on the subject:=20 http://barelyenough.org/blog/2008/05/versioning-rest-web-services/ Looking around though, it would seem that use the level extension is a = way of using the Accept/Content-Type headers without encoding the = version in the media type itself. See:=20 = http://techbits.blogspot.com/2012/02/versioning-restful-apis-there-seems-t= o.html Though level is not explicitly specified in the Content-Type header = definition, the syntax is legal as a parameter the same as it is = specified in the Accept header. This seems like a decent approach. -andy On May 30, 2012, at 3:13 AM, Maarten Wullink wrote: > I would suggest removing the versioning information from the = content-type. > Put the version information in the URL itself, like this where "v1" is = the version 1 of the API. >=20 > /base/v1/domains/example.com >=20 > This way is clear what version of the API the client is connecting to = and you do > Not have to abuse the content-type for this. >=20 > For more about versioning see: > http://blog.apigee.com/taglist/versioning >=20 >=20 > application\weirds_blah_v1+json >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Andy Newton > Sent: donderdag 17 mei 2012 20:54 > To: Julian Reschke > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] feedback on draft-designteam-weirds-using-http >=20 >=20 > On May 17, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >> Using URI templates sound promising. >=20 > This keeps coming up, but so far nobody has shown why it is useful. I = think what we want out of URI templating is to be shown what utility it = adds before placing it in the specifications. >=20 >>>> b) s/MIME type/media type/ >>>>=20 >>>> Accept header. Servers SHOULD respond with an appropriate MIME = type >>>> in the Accept header in accordance with the preference rules for = the >>>> Accept header in HTTP [RFC2616]. However the use by clients of >>>> multiple MIME types in the Accept header is NOT RECOMMENDED. >>>>=20 >>>> It's not clear to me why you're profiling HTTP here. >>>=20 >>> Because for this application, clients will probably only know one = format. The need to use the complex rules for specifying multiple = formats is unnecessary. >>=20 >> I don't follow. Servers need to process the Accept header field = according to RFC 2616. Are you saying they can rely on it being simpler? = In which case, this would need to be a "MUST NOT". >=20 > Uh, yeah. I think I'm trying to have it both ways. It's probably best = to simply remove this. >=20 >>>> that it desires JSON or "application\weirds_blah_v1+json" to = express >>>> that it desires WEIRDS BLAH version 1 in JSON. The server MUST >>>> respond with "application\weirds_blah_v1+json". >>>>=20 >>>> This seems to invent a new concept of media ranges in content = negotiation that didn't exist before. Why is this needed? >>>=20 >>> For signaling the version of the schema desired. Is there another = method you feel is more appropriate? >>=20 >> The method is probably ok, but the way it was explained was = confusing: client specifies it wants "A", but server is allowed to = return "B" (and label it as "B"), if it has out-of-band info that the = client will understand it, too. Note that here "A" and "B" could be any = media type (the label is really opaque). >=20 > Ok. I'll look into cleaning this up. >=20 >>=20 >>>> 5.2. Redirects >>>>=20 >>>> If a server wishes to inform a client that the answer to a given >>>> query can be found elsewhere, it should return either a 301 or a = 303 >>>> reponse code and an HTTP URL in the Redirect header. The client = is >>>>=20 >>>> s/reponse/response/ >>>>=20 >>>> expected to issue a subsequent query using the given URL without = any >>>> processing of the URL. In other words, the server is to hand back = a >>>> complete URL and the client should not have to transform the URL = to >>>> follow it. >>>>=20 >>>> HTTPbis allows relative URIs here, and so should this protocol. >>>=20 >>> Why? It is simpler for the clients if the URLs are absolute. >>=20 >> Do not profile the base protocol unless there is a very very good = reason. >=20 > I now understand what you are saying. >=20 >>>> ... >>>>=20 >>>> 7. Use of XML >>>>=20 >>>> 7.1. Signaling >>>>=20 >>>> Clients may signal their desire for XML using the = "application\xml" >>>> mime type or a more application specific XML mime type. >>>>=20 >>>> 7.2. Naming and Structure >>>>=20 >>>> Well-formed XML may be programmatically produced using the JSON >>>> encodings due to the JSON naming rules outlined in Section 6.2 and >>>> the following simple rules: >>>>=20 >>>> 1. Where a JSON name is given, the corresponding XML element has = the >>>> same name. >>>>=20 >>>> 2. Where a JSON value is found, it is the content of the >>>> corresponding XML element. >>>>=20 >>>> That is not true for all JSON values (consider control characters). >>>=20 >>> Ah yes, the escaping needs to be changed from JSON to XML. >>=20 >> There's still a set of characters that won't be usable in XML (yes, = not even escaped). >=20 > That would be &, <, and >. So I guess we should mention those are to = be escaped as well. Gosh XML is overly complex. >=20 >=20 > Thanks for the input. >=20 > -andy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From johnl@iecc.com Wed May 30 18:51:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87FE11E812F for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 18:51:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.269 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.269 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.929, BAYES_20=-0.74, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cz3g0HaH6pOv for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 18:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0B411E80FA for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 18:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 81673 invoked from network); 31 May 2012 01:51:19 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 31 May 2012 01:51:19 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fc6ce97.xn--yuvv84g.k1205; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=dGAbfd4qrrmc7fWgN1ecC/Iuru2emkzPhjhQG90j8FY=; b=FWNNX1mDp+/8X6rGK7kUmaVdcWNRE9eI1IbP5BBDemdeYv+eRGLm69Hr31hk/TBbdor1r6dqxUtNloTc1IHap5f3wHckOyIcB2eSnihXNJRrM8KiV/n1WRCK1AVRyUGO3tRs+Bjl76XvhZVsjiTgbmmYLvEnv06VTZnIxAbKTkQ= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 31 May 2012 01:50:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20120531015057.26310.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [weirds] ICANN asks for advice on designing a WHOIS Technical Requirements Survey X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 01:51:22 -0000 http://www.icann.org/en/news/public-comment/draft-whois-requirements-survey-30may12-en.htm [ from the web page ] Purpose (Brief): The Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO) Council's WHOIS Survey Working Group (WSWG) requests community input on the draft WHOIS Technical Requirements Survey. The Working Group is soliciting input from experts on technical requirements for a new WHOIS protocol, in particular people knowledgeable about technical aspects of WHOIS who can help assess if the survey asks the right questions and in the right style to elicit technical feedback. The Working Group seeks specific suggestions on changes to language and questions that will make it clearer for experts to complete. Current Status: This Public Comment solicitation represents an opportunity for the community to share perspectives on the proposed draft WHOIS Technical Requirements Survey. In parallel, the WSWG will conduct a Webinar to promote the survey and solicit additional feedback. Next Steps: The WSWG will consider the comments received as part of their deliberations and creation of the final version of the WHOIS Requirements Survey. Upon submission to the GNSO Council, the survey will be announced and released for community participation. The survey will be available for 30 days. Afterwards, the WSWG will compile, analyze and report on the survey results to produce a final report outlining possible WHOIS Technical requirements. R's, John PS: The draft survey isn't bad, except where it asks about XML without also asking about JSON. Be sure to click through the whole thing, there's a lot more than the first screenful. From dblumenthal@pir.org Wed May 30 19:01:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4A021F8698 for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 19:01:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wDVMIoYFjFPD for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 19:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com (mail.pir.org [72.44.190.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AECAB21F8694 for ; Wed, 30 May 2012 19:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com ([192.168.27.12]) by pir-mail-01 ([192.168.27.12]) with mapi; Wed, 30 May 2012 22:01:20 -0400 From: Don Blumenthal To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 22:01:16 -0400 Thread-Topic: [weirds] ICANN asks for advice on designing a WHOIS Technical Requirements Survey Thread-Index: Ac0+0US7Th+2PGONTFmmtY6INveykw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20120531015057.26310.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] ICANN asks for advice on designing a WHOIS Technical Requirements Survey X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 02:01:22 -0000 I'm one of the vice chairs of the WSWG. Comments from folks on this list would be very helpful. Don On 5/30/12 9:50 PM, "John Levine" wrote: >http://www.icann.org/en/news/public-comment/draft-whois-requirements-surve >y-30may12-en.htm > > [ from the web page ] > >Purpose (Brief): The Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO) >Council's WHOIS Survey Working Group (WSWG) requests community input >on the draft WHOIS Technical Requirements Survey. The Working Group is >soliciting input from experts on technical requirements for a new >WHOIS protocol, in particular people knowledgeable about technical >aspects of WHOIS who can help assess if the survey asks the right >questions and in the right style to elicit technical feedback. The >Working Group seeks specific suggestions on changes to language and >questions that will make it clearer for experts to complete. > >Current Status: This Public Comment solicitation represents an >opportunity for the community to share perspectives on the proposed >draft WHOIS Technical Requirements Survey. In parallel, the WSWG will >conduct a Webinar to promote the survey and solicit additional >feedback. > >Next Steps: The WSWG will consider the comments received as part of >their deliberations and creation of the final version of the WHOIS >Requirements Survey. Upon submission to the GNSO Council, the survey >will be announced and released for community participation. The survey >will be available for 30 days. Afterwards, the WSWG will compile, >analyze and report on the survey results to produce a final report >outlining possible WHOIS Technical requirements. > >R's, >John > >PS: The draft survey isn't bad, except where it asks about XML without >also asking about JSON. Be sure to click through the whole thing, there's >a lot more than the first screenful.