<= /div>= --_000_B5F40D70914D4696A6F6A6C02E63F82Bnominetorguk_-- From chris@ausregistry.com.au Thu Jul 19 05:35:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBA821F872A for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:35:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UdkHBQQEaFBk for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.ausregistry.net.au (mx01.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154BA21F8720 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron01.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 19 Jul 2012 22:36:30 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:36:17 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: Alessandro Vesely , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:36:26 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world Thread-Index: Ac1lqxbe7Ce0RMmkQoGhAe2GyGOOJw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5006D572.5080702@tana.it> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:35:42 -0000 Why not a DNS Resource Record that lives in the tld zone file? No need to have IANA involved then and TLD manager can update as required. dig -t WEIRDS tad returns URL of weirds service Or we could potentially use existing records like SRV or NAPTR ? Thanks Chris On 19/07/12 1:25 AM, "Alessandro Vesely" wrote: >On Tue 17/Jul/2012 15:10:07 +0200 Andy Newton wrote: >> On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:08 AM, John R Levine wrote: >>=20 >>>>> I suppose one could use a CNAME kludge of >>>>> .wierdsservers.net or <1.2.3.4.5.6>.weirdsservers.net, >>>>> analogous to Rodney's whoisservers.net, that doesn't require >>>>> a lookup before the http query. >>>>=20 >>>> Interesting. Why not XXXX.weirds.arpa? >>>=20 >>> Uh, because I wasn't thinking far enough ahead? That would >>> involve IANA, but in a pretty benign way. They'd have to update >>> their processes to allow entities that have been delegated a TLD >>> or a top level IP range to register and update WEIRDS servers, >>> but it'd be no more work than maintaining the in-addr zone which >>> they do now. >>=20 >> I think this is workable and strikes the right balance for the >> needs of the clients vs. distributed bootstrapping. > >+1, I'll hum for it if it goes in A.5.2 >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From carlosm3011@gmail.com Thu Jul 19 07:46:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDAE21F86FD for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:46:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DEAzrLBl876u for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84BA021F86F3 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenq13 with SMTP id q13so3143567yen.31 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:47:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/hGbQUnpo9N3XaBjQuIrUS/yasgGuQWZH9T01lljvBw=; b=BG3iO9O4hLHw7+cs5TzM2KXw9Ob8+o/HaQnNt9iPykZjZs2KWUC4s0/sCNShfQvv3w Pu0FwJkDty61dVY1hG7KQThEByyh6YIxRTq0OMBDoglsKNX598wP80/z93yk2DkULt3w fYshDLodFfwBR5eV3Jeet2uZ41vUTsnfF33VPkY8PGZV0R63lHKgCJeBdkeDxNQXi1Qq KNaXoPGcVrzwH4hohlHXBUKRUkJiN3msNMM89MKeQ8LlwNxkpQQYeBXu+Ht4GR8H9yjd imH1ghnuZxzP0cqNWhWqprS8kCBQh5z2J9aNPsFXVcSsxCTjGMiQ38JDw/IW60r0djM6 Nrdw== Received: by 10.236.117.97 with SMTP id i61mr1697944yhh.73.1342709257657; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.local ([190.115.129.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q10sm1967552anm.16.2012.07.19.07.47.34 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50081E0D.7060309@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:47:41 -0400 From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Wright References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" , Alessandro Vesely Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:46:46 -0000 I thought about that, but decided against it on the grounds that it will increase zone size by a sizeable factor, which might not be an issue for some operators but definitely will hurt others like .com thoughts? regards Carlos On 7/19/12 8:36 AM, Chris Wright wrote: > Why not a DNS Resource Record that lives in the tld zone file? No need to > have IANA involved then and TLD manager can update as required. > > dig -t WEIRDS tad returns URL of weirds service > > Or we could potentially use existing records like SRV or NAPTR ? > > Thanks > > Chris > > On 19/07/12 1:25 AM, "Alessandro Vesely" wrote: > >> On Tue 17/Jul/2012 15:10:07 +0200 Andy Newton wrote: >>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:08 AM, John R Levine wrote: >>> >>>>>> I suppose one could use a CNAME kludge of >>>>>> .wierdsservers.net or <1.2.3.4.5.6>.weirdsservers.net, >>>>>> analogous to Rodney's whoisservers.net, that doesn't require >>>>>> a lookup before the http query. >>>>> Interesting. Why not XXXX.weirds.arpa? >>>> Uh, because I wasn't thinking far enough ahead? That would >>>> involve IANA, but in a pretty benign way. They'd have to update >>>> their processes to allow entities that have been delegated a TLD >>>> or a top level IP range to register and update WEIRDS servers, >>>> but it'd be no more work than maintaining the in-addr zone which >>>> they do now. >>> I think this is workable and strikes the right balance for the >>> needs of the clients vs. distributed bootstrapping. >> +1, I'll hum for it if it goes in A.5.2 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From hsalgado@nic.cl Thu Jul 19 07:58:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5676421F8620 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:58:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WeZbfbLG4UHM for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cl (mail.nic.cl [IPv6:2001:1398:1::6008]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D2E21F85DB for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F24248003 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:59:08 -0400 (CLT) Received: from vulcano.intra.nic.cl (unknown [IPv6:2001:1398:4:1:172:30:10:58]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594B0248001 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:59:08 -0400 (CLT) Message-ID: <500820BC.3060500@nic.cl> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:59:08 -0400 From: Hugo Salgado User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <50081E0D.7060309@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <50081E0D.7060309@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 OpenPGP: id=B525FA6E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP on Thu Jul 19 10:59:08 2012 -0400 (CLT) Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:58:18 -0000 On 07/19/2012 10:47 AM, Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo wrote: > I thought about that, but decided against it on the grounds that it will > increase zone size by a sizeable factor, which might not be an issue for > some operators but definitely will hurt others like .com > > thoughts? The .com zone will only get 1 extra WEIRDS/SRV/NAPTR RR (plus some RRSIGs and NSEC*). This mechanism is only to bootstrap the first level. After that, .com will redirect to weirds servers below its hierarchy using the standard weirds-restful http redirect, when its needed. Hugo > > regards > > Carlos > > On 7/19/12 8:36 AM, Chris Wright wrote: >> Why not a DNS Resource Record that lives in the tld zone file? No need to >> have IANA involved then and TLD manager can update as required. >> >> dig -t WEIRDS tad returns URL of weirds service >> >> Or we could potentially use existing records like SRV or NAPTR ? >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris >> >> On 19/07/12 1:25 AM, "Alessandro Vesely" wrote: >> >>> On Tue 17/Jul/2012 15:10:07 +0200 Andy Newton wrote: >>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:08 AM, John R Levine wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> I suppose one could use a CNAME kludge of >>>>>>> .wierdsservers.net or <1.2.3.4.5.6>.weirdsservers.net, >>>>>>> analogous to Rodney's whoisservers.net, that doesn't require >>>>>>> a lookup before the http query. >>>>>> Interesting. Why not XXXX.weirds.arpa? >>>>> Uh, because I wasn't thinking far enough ahead? That would >>>>> involve IANA, but in a pretty benign way. They'd have to update >>>>> their processes to allow entities that have been delegated a TLD >>>>> or a top level IP range to register and update WEIRDS servers, >>>>> but it'd be no more work than maintaining the in-addr zone which >>>>> they do now. >>>> I think this is workable and strikes the right balance for the >>>> needs of the clients vs. distributed bootstrapping. >>> +1, I'll hum for it if it goes in A.5.2 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> weirds mailing list >>> weirds@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > From andy@arin.net Thu Jul 19 08:19:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7312921F8736 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:19:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZtrtIj3hJUtY for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A667F21F8713 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 50F0B165363; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB423164FC5; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:20:03 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:20:18 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Ray Bellis Thread-Topic: [weirds] Authentication Methods Thread-Index: AQHNYzSuspt33xZIm0e2t0ykhwl7c5cvAi8AgABdO4CAABfFAIAAXrLQgACxhgCAAHk+gA== Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:20:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20120718142657.26067.qmail@joyce.lan> <8152AEFC-9398-47E7-9DEE-A662F0E64E28@arin.net> <002701cd6550$6c1a3ba0$444eb2e0$@cn> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service Working Group Subject: Re: [weirds] Authentication Methods X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:19:45 -0000 On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:06 AM, Ray Bellis wrote: >=20 > On 19 Jul 2012, at 02:47, Linlin Zhou wrote: >>=20 >> I think we should define which authentication scenarios are included in = the >> scope of this working group. Then select authentication mechanisms that = are >> suitable for corresponding scenarios.=20 >> Some may not supported or implemented, but reasons and explanations are >> listed. >=20 >=20 > The trouble with (HTTP authentication) standards is that there's _so_ man= y of them to choose from;-) We need to be careful here. If we define so many MUSTs (or even MAYs), ther= e will be push back that this is a heavyweight specification and some will = use that to avoid implementation. I think the question ought to be asked, does any Whois operator today have = differentiated access, either via port 43 or other Whois-type services, or = does any Whois operator have plans in the works to implement some type of d= ifferentiated access. Getting answers to such questions would limit the sco= pe. -andy= From andy@arin.net Thu Jul 19 08:21:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4299321F87B7 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:21:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J8q6eX+Bwwmz for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9194921F8736 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 9B182214A4A; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B56F8214A51; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:22:15 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:22:30 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Chris Wright Thread-Topic: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world Thread-Index: AQHNX65QpJoDeMyMZUyzRwJlYVqyVZck9d2AgAD9kICAB8s+AIABuDEAgAFjDwCAAC5jAA== Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:22:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" , Alessandro Vesely Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:21:41 -0000 On Jul 19, 2012, at 8:36 AM, Chris Wright wrote: > Why not a DNS Resource Record that lives in the tld zone file? No need to > have IANA involved then and TLD manager can update as required. >=20 > dig -t WEIRDS tad returns URL of weirds service >=20 > Or we could potentially use existing records like SRV or NAPTR ? As previously discussed in this thread, many client implementations operate= in an environment that does not have access to this type of information. -andy= From johnl@iecc.com Thu Jul 19 08:54:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8318721F871A for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:54:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -111.143 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-111.143 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U7O4ThWAdooZ for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F3C21F86FA for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 64510 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2012 15:55:40 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2012 15:55:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=50082dfc.xn--i8sz2z.k1207; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=1XXjLyqpYvGIlKMUNJHlXnyynevHciBA0piF4c8NJFU=; b=m1A6iKfSaiKVhcy08ISmd98rQoUeYkM7WcCstLCGUhaqOM6ME0hfrqkgXdJYhNgTkQCtCP4exouUGty0pxNpV/+xvQX5QZS3UJ7QBXPkTG+eERioO4CZ2AU0KYIWydYZx9TQmro2MnNzrYvc98YEbQzSklcwvmHCw0lZeEweDRE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=50082dfc.xn--i8sz2z.k1207; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=1XXjLyqpYvGIlKMUNJHlXnyynevHciBA0piF4c8NJFU=; b=Fuub7YJ/BF8j3Xbc4R8CK9+UD0KeUKaOQzxm+pLk1DYfB12sjGFbXw9Wm/IZCCrc/U7lS1GP30QHBAJdETHsGu5LHq288tJHkrUQ68jjidLSvC8+1y1Vqu0CqBRqJg5uk4NnB8A9OP2AVNm3HcfcQj5Td78J66PhfkFSQP8Ybck= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 19 Jul 2012 15:55:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20120719155518.53016.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Authentication Methods X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:54:49 -0000 >I think the question ought to be asked, does any Whois operator today >have differentiated access, either via port 43 or other Whois-type >services, ... On the numbers side, you can probably answer that as well as anyone. On the names side, I can report from experience that every WHOIS server does rate limiting, and there is usually some secret way to get the limit for your IP raised if you know who to ask. When you hit the limit, different providers do different things. Some redact the data (Godaddy notably). Some return a message saying you're over your limit. Some just don't accept connections, or accept and don't respond. So, yes, on the names side at least, differentiated access is universal. R's, John From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Jul 19 08:55:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99B421F8794 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:55:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.36 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.36 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.520, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AjvfX3+L355q for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (ow5p.x.rootbsd.net [208.79.81.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63CE521F878A for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71DCB8A031 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:56:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:56:12 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120719155612.GG2231@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120718142657.26067.qmail@joyce.lan> <8152AEFC-9398-47E7-9DEE-A662F0E64E28@arin.net> <002701cd6550$6c1a3ba0$444eb2e0$@cn>

MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Authentication Methods X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:55:22 -0000 On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 03:20:17PM +0000, Andy Newton wrote: > > I think the question ought to be asked, does any Whois operator > today have differentiated access, either via port 43 or other > Whois-type services Yes. Almost all the name registries have a special non-rate-limited address you can talk to. Most of them require the IP address from which you are coming to get to it, and it's available to you at their discretion. This is normally offered to registrars, who frequently need the full non-rate-limited access in order to comply with various requirements of ICANN agreements, or as part of their business logic. Moreover, a significant justification for this work was differential access. If we're not going to offer it, we're not in keeping with our charter. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From warren@kumari.net Thu Jul 19 10:59:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E47E21F8611 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:59:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rh2SKyqp0XFK for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vimes.kumari.net (vimes.kumari.net [198.186.192.250]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED1621F85E0 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.26.33.237] (unknown [72.14.228.1]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 230E11B40115; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warren Kumari In-Reply-To: <20120719014449.GC1323@crankycanuck.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:00:45 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <21C8E709-5D9F-42D1-9666-5E6A46AA8770@kumari.net> References: <20120718142657.26067.qmail@joyce.lan> <8152AEFC-9398-47E7-9DEE-A662F0E64E28@arin.net> <42F12CD9-55E3-47DE-8909-307FB3E9567D@arin.net> <20120718164439.GI340@mail.yitter.info> <817CDB07-EB97-4BB6-B73F-737866BC11EA@acm.org> <20120719014449.GC1323@crankycanuck.ca> To: Andrew Sullivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Authentication Methods X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:59:58 -0000 On Jul 18, 2012, at 9:44 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 09:28:21PM -0400, Avri Doria wrote: >>=20 >> Not quite a MUST because there might be a set of good reasons for not = doing OAuth, client SSL, etc.. that could be listed in the rfc, but that = in the absence of a good reason for not doing so, yes one SHOULD. >>=20 >=20 > That doesn't address Andy's (quite reasonable) observation that many > clients won't want to implement all that. =20 And that is perfectly fine -- my shiny web-browser implements digest = auth, TLS and the ability to see dancing hamsters ( = http://www.webhamster.com/ ) not because of any MUST or SHOULD, but = because that is what the users are (apparently) asking for. If I connect to a web server that doesn't require these things I am free = to use a much simpler client (AKA "telnet to port 80"!). Both ways have their pros and cons, but if I need to connect to a system = that needs "advanced" features, I go pull out an "advanced" client. As = long as the specification is clear on how the base functionality works, = how the optional features work , and which are which, client developers = can support what they need to... > What interoperability > problem are we trying to solve with SHOULD? MAY permits people to do > this, makes it clear what the methods would be, and then lets both > ends work out what they mutually support. Well, sort of -- clients that don't implement $foo obviously won't be = able to get content that requires $foo. Unless both sides announce their = capabilities[0] it may be tricky (short of probing / testing) to know = what all capabilities are supported.=20 W [0]: I'm not suggesting this! >=20 > Best, >=20 > A >=20 > --=20 > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@anvilwalrusden.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 --=20 No man is an island, But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie them = together, they make a pretty good raft. --Anon. From peter@denic.de Thu Jul 19 11:04:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241C721F864F for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:04:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rurjDLeFPdtA for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (office.denic.de [IPv6:2a02:568:122:16:1::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6571821F85E0 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de ([10.122.64.17]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1Srv6c-0004a2-Fj; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:05:42 +0200 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1Srv6c-0008KI-BX; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:05:42 +0200 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:05:42 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120719180542.GF24669@x28.adm.denic.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [weirds] REST-pect-ful X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:04:51 -0000 On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 01:06:45PM +1000, James Mitchell wrote: > Using .au whois as an example, only registrant and technical contact name > and email are available via whois-like interfaces (port-43 and web), > however email is withheld to port-43 clients. Administrative and billing > contacts are never returned, nor is any specific data relating to the > registrant or tech contacts (phone, fax, address etc). > > There a distinction between data that is never available and data has been > withheld from a specific interface. DENIC also has similar behaviours IIRC. true. The admin contact is unavailable over port 43 and some contact details may only be visible as instructed by the registrant. And there is overall rate limiting. In those cases where an object or an attribute is withheld I do not think it would be either proper protocol design to add a magic string (as opposed to an extra alphabetical token) or within the purpose of the limited visibility to disclose the presence of the data. -Peter From chris@ausregistry.com.au Thu Jul 19 17:01:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA2311E80A6 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:01:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5osjAa2z32HX for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD3011E80A0 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2012 10:02:04 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:01:51 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: "carlos@lacnic.net" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:02:01 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world Thread-Index: Ac1lvWweFPZWGnm9TMu/IWsw5ZLupAATVkRA Message-ID: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD7209B@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> References: <50081E0D.7060309@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <50081E0D.7060309@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" , Alessandro Vesely Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 00:01:15 -0000 SSdtIG5vdCBzdXJlIHlvdSB1bmRlcnN0b29kIHRoZSBpZGVhLCANCg0KVGhlcmUgd291bGQgb25s eSBiZSBvbmUgcmVjb3JkIGluIHRoZSB6b25lIGZpbGUgKG9yIG1heWJlIGEgZmV3IGZvciByZWR1 bmRhbmN5IHJlYXNvbnMpLCBpdOKAmXMgYSBib290c3RyYXAgcG9pbnRlciBub3QgYSBwb2ludGVy IGZvciBldmVyeSBkb21haW4uDQoNClNvIEkgZG9u4oCZdCB0aGluayB0aGVyZSB3b3VsZCBiZSBh bnkgaXNzdWUuDQoNClRoYW5rcw0KDQpDaHJpcw0KDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t LS0tDQpGcm9tOiBDYXJsb3MgTWFydGluZXotQ2FnbmF6em8gW21haWx0bzpjYXJsb3NtMzAxMUBn bWFpbC5jb21dIA0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCAyMCBKdWx5IDIwMTIgMTI6NDggQU0NClRvOiBDaHJp cyBXcmlnaHQNCkNjOiBBbGVzc2FuZHJvIFZlc2VseTsgd2VpcmRzQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0 OiBSZTogW3dlaXJkc10gdGhlIGJvb3RzdHJhcCBwcm9ibGVtLCBSZWRpcmVjdGlvbiBpbiB0aGUg UkVTVGZ1bCBXSE9JUyB3b3JsZA0KDQpJIHRob3VnaHQgYWJvdXQgdGhhdCwgYnV0IGRlY2lkZWQg YWdhaW5zdCBpdCBvbiB0aGUgZ3JvdW5kcyB0aGF0IGl0IHdpbGwgaW5jcmVhc2Ugem9uZSBzaXpl IGJ5IGEgc2l6ZWFibGUgZmFjdG9yLCB3aGljaCBtaWdodCBub3QgYmUgYW4gaXNzdWUgZm9yIHNv bWUgb3BlcmF0b3JzIGJ1dCBkZWZpbml0ZWx5IHdpbGwgaHVydCBvdGhlcnMgbGlrZSAuY29tDQoN CnRob3VnaHRzPw0KDQpyZWdhcmRzDQoNCkNhcmxvcw0KDQpPbiA3LzE5LzEyIDg6MzYgQU0sIENo cmlzIFdyaWdodCB3cm90ZToNCj4gV2h5IG5vdCBhIEROUyBSZXNvdXJjZSBSZWNvcmQgdGhhdCBs aXZlcyBpbiB0aGUgdGxkIHpvbmUgZmlsZT8gTm8gbmVlZCANCj4gdG8gaGF2ZSBJQU5BIGludm9s dmVkIHRoZW4gYW5kIFRMRCBtYW5hZ2VyIGNhbiB1cGRhdGUgYXMgcmVxdWlyZWQuDQo+DQo+IGRp ZyAtdCBXRUlSRFMgdGFkIHJldHVybnMgVVJMIG9mIHdlaXJkcyBzZXJ2aWNlDQo+DQo+IE9yIHdl IGNvdWxkIHBvdGVudGlhbGx5IHVzZSBleGlzdGluZyByZWNvcmRzIGxpa2UgU1JWIG9yIE5BUFRS ID8NCj4NCj4gVGhhbmtzDQo+DQo+IENocmlzDQo+DQo+IE9uIDE5LzA3LzEyIDE6MjUgQU0sICJB bGVzc2FuZHJvIFZlc2VseSIgPHZlc2VseUB0YW5hLml0PiB3cm90ZToNCj4NCj4+IE9uIFR1ZSAx Ny9KdWwvMjAxMiAxNToxMDowNyArMDIwMCBBbmR5IE5ld3RvbiB3cm90ZToNCj4+PiBPbiBKdWwg MTIsIDIwMTIsIGF0IDEwOjA4IEFNLCBKb2huIFIgTGV2aW5lIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4+DQo+Pj4+Pj4g SSBzdXBwb3NlIG9uZSBjb3VsZCB1c2UgYSBDTkFNRSBrbHVkZ2Ugb2YgPHRsZD4ud2llcmRzc2Vy dmVycy5uZXQgDQo+Pj4+Pj4gb3IgPDEuMi4zLjQuNS42Pi53ZWlyZHNzZXJ2ZXJzLm5ldCwgYW5h bG9nb3VzIHRvIFJvZG5leSdzIA0KPj4+Pj4+IHdob2lzc2VydmVycy5uZXQsIHRoYXQgZG9lc24n dCByZXF1aXJlIGEgbG9va3VwIGJlZm9yZSB0aGUgaHR0cCANCj4+Pj4+PiBxdWVyeS4NCj4+Pj4+ IEludGVyZXN0aW5nLiBXaHkgbm90IFhYWFgud2VpcmRzLmFycGE/DQo+Pj4+IFVoLCBiZWNhdXNl IEkgd2Fzbid0IHRoaW5raW5nIGZhciBlbm91Z2ggYWhlYWQ/ICBUaGF0IHdvdWxkIGludm9sdmUg DQo+Pj4+IElBTkEsIGJ1dCBpbiBhIHByZXR0eSBiZW5pZ24gd2F5LiAgVGhleSdkIGhhdmUgdG8g dXBkYXRlIHRoZWlyIA0KPj4+PiBwcm9jZXNzZXMgdG8gYWxsb3cgZW50aXRpZXMgdGhhdCBoYXZl IGJlZW4gZGVsZWdhdGVkIGEgVExEIG9yIGEgdG9wIA0KPj4+PiBsZXZlbCBJUCByYW5nZSB0byBy ZWdpc3RlciBhbmQgdXBkYXRlIFdFSVJEUyBzZXJ2ZXJzLCBidXQgaXQnZCBiZSANCj4+Pj4gbm8g bW9yZSB3b3JrIHRoYW4gbWFpbnRhaW5pbmcgdGhlIGluLWFkZHIgem9uZSB3aGljaCB0aGV5IGRv IG5vdy4NCj4+PiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgaXMgd29ya2FibGUgYW5kIHN0cmlrZXMgdGhlIHJpZ2h0 IGJhbGFuY2UgZm9yIHRoZSBuZWVkcyANCj4+PiBvZiB0aGUgY2xpZW50cyB2cy4gZGlzdHJpYnV0 ZWQgYm9vdHN0cmFwcGluZy4NCj4+ICsxLCBJJ2xsIGh1bSBmb3IgaXQgaWYgaXQgZ29lcyBpbiBB LjUuMg0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18N Cj4+IHdlaXJkcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IHdlaXJkc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby93ZWlyZHMNCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gd2VpcmRzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiB3 ZWlyZHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby93 ZWlyZHMNCg0KDQo= From chris@ausregistry.com.au Thu Jul 19 17:02:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F23C11E80A6 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:02:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fOvO2lfOm6Mo for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4D211E80A0 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2012 10:03:50 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:03:37 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: Andy Newton Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:03:47 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world Thread-Index: AQHNX65QpJoDeMyMZUyzRwJlYVqyVZck9d2AgAD9kICAB8s+AIABuDEAgAFjDwCAAC5jAIAATiKw Message-ID: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD7209C@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> References:

In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" , Alessandro Vesely Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 00:02:57 -0000 SW0gc29ycnkgQW5keSwgSSBkb27igJl0IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgeW91ciBwb2ludC4uLg0KDQpBcmUg eW91IHNheWluZyB0aGF0IGNsaWVudHMgd2lsbCBvcGVyYXRlIGluIGFuIGVudmlyb25tZW50IHdo ZXJlIHRoZXkgY2FuIG1ha2UgYSBIVFRQIHJlcXVlc3QgYnV0IGNhbid0IGRvIEROUyByZXNvbHV0 aW9uPyBUaGF0IG1ha2VzIGFic29sdXRlbHkgbm8gc2Vuc2UgdG8gbWUuDQoNCkJlc2lkZSB0aGUg YWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgYXBwcm9hY2ggYmVpbmcgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGlzIHRvIGhhdmUgJ3JlY29yZHMn IGluIFhYWFgud2VpcmRzLmFycGEuIElmIHRoZSBjbGllbnQgY2FuIGxvb2t1cCBETlMgcmVjb3Jk cyBpbiB0aGF0IHpvbmUsIHdoeSBjYW50IHRoZXkgbG9vayB0aGVtIHVwIGluIHRoZSBUTEQgem9u ZT8NCg0KQ2FuIHlvdSBleHBhbmQgb24geW91ciBpc3N1ZSBhIGxpdHRsZSBtb3JlIHNvIHRoYXQg SSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIGl0Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MNCg0KYy4NCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3Nh Z2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogQW5keSBOZXd0b24gW21haWx0bzphbmR5QGFyaW4ubmV0XSANClNlbnQ6 IEZyaWRheSwgMjAgSnVseSAyMDEyIDE6MjIgQU0NClRvOiBDaHJpcyBXcmlnaHQNCkNjOiBBbGVz c2FuZHJvIFZlc2VseTsgd2VpcmRzQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW3dlaXJkc10gdGhl IGJvb3RzdHJhcCBwcm9ibGVtLCBSZWRpcmVjdGlvbiBpbiB0aGUgUkVTVGZ1bCBXSE9JUyB3b3Js ZA0KDQoNCk9uIEp1bCAxOSwgMjAxMiwgYXQgODozNiBBTSwgQ2hyaXMgV3JpZ2h0IHdyb3RlOg0K DQo+IFdoeSBub3QgYSBETlMgUmVzb3VyY2UgUmVjb3JkIHRoYXQgbGl2ZXMgaW4gdGhlIHRsZCB6 b25lIGZpbGU/IE5vIG5lZWQgDQo+IHRvIGhhdmUgSUFOQSBpbnZvbHZlZCB0aGVuIGFuZCBUTEQg bWFuYWdlciBjYW4gdXBkYXRlIGFzIHJlcXVpcmVkLg0KPiANCj4gZGlnIC10IFdFSVJEUyB0YWQg cmV0dXJucyBVUkwgb2Ygd2VpcmRzIHNlcnZpY2UNCj4gDQo+IE9yIHdlIGNvdWxkIHBvdGVudGlh bGx5IHVzZSBleGlzdGluZyByZWNvcmRzIGxpa2UgU1JWIG9yIE5BUFRSID8NCg0KQXMgcHJldmlv dXNseSBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gdGhpcyB0aHJlYWQsIG1hbnkgY2xpZW50IGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9u cyBvcGVyYXRlIGluIGFuIGVudmlyb25tZW50IHRoYXQgZG9lcyBub3QgaGF2ZSBhY2Nlc3MgdG8g dGhpcyB0eXBlIG9mIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLg0KDQotYW5keQ0K From johnl@iecc.com Thu Jul 19 18:10:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3578811E80CE for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:10:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -111.131 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-111.131 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.068, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sUaXaMSlcLFO for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89AA811E80A6 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 67528 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2012 01:11:09 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2012 01:11:09 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=5008b02d.xn--9vv.k1207; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=nsWENIScRfuqf05o1ZIiVUn26SNDrBw82YAd5jhUbuw=; b=PWwMZkQwAC1quNY3/gBzrIQ+dKmF6ge7+82HC4RfwaKRoRMGPfGxPvPFvOVEmthZ44opwukb3Bix6LcjtXyK5hQaA4exiSFae7dwtkOOsohEI/Zap6WD6bcfrs8WZ+x/3gzl2dEma2eoMuMRELy8tVoFJOnN80jR0Pxjdpq2UIw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=5008b02d.xn--9vv.k1207; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=nsWENIScRfuqf05o1ZIiVUn26SNDrBw82YAd5jhUbuw=; b=kX8ixpFKs14PUP9mKak/st/eANXO/wEVkl5XFIPS9ejI59eqPlq2pOD8KtpswnH/GjwpgSDtzsWZbiD0dyt+u76P+ycN8Us1nQPzHIpZ6XVr3pZ3AJr3b2voQXDwVby1Vg7aIQLhdiosfp7kU0arQpevdBhw3QrUW4aYZtVR1Rg= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 20 Jul 2012 01:10:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20120720011046.96838.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD7209B@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:10:21 -0000 >I'm not sure you understood the idea, > >There would only be one record in the zone file Um, IP addresses don't have zone files. R's, John From chris@ausregistry.com.au Thu Jul 19 18:59:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE40021F85A0 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:59:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.695 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.591, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, SARE_SPOOF_COM2COM=2.536, SPOOF_COM2OTH=2.044] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id noOivi8VPETT for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B573021F84DC for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2012 12:00:22 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:00:09 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:00:19 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world Thread-Index: Ac1mFIoVxrxvL/ZMTyWUTd8kMKTxQwAAJWgg Message-ID: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD72111@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> References: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD7209B@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> <20120720011046.96838.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120720011046.96838.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:59:33 -0000 VGhleSBkbyBpZiB5b3UgdHVybiB0aGVtIGludG8gdGhlaXIgcmV2ZXJzZSBETlMgZm9ybS4gSXQg d29ya3MgZmluZS4NCg0KVGhlIG9ubHkgdGhpbmcgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIgaXMgZG8gd2Ugd2FudCB0 byBkbyB0b3AgZG93biBvciBib3R0b20gdXAgc2VhcmNoaW5nLi4NCg0KRm9yIGV4YW1wbGUgaW4g LmF1IHdlIGhhdmUgcmVnaXN0cmF0aW9ucyBhdCB0aGUgdGhpcmQgbGV2ZWwgZm9vLmNvbS5hdSBh bmQgZXZlbiA0dGggbGV2ZWwgZm9vLnZpYy5nb3YuYXUNCg0KSWYgeW91IGRpZCBpdCB0b3AgZG93 biB5b3Ugd291bGQgZ2V0IHRoZSB3ZWlyZHMgVVJMIGZyb20gdGhlIHRsZCBETlMgYW5kIHRoZW4g YmUgcmVkaXJlY3RlZCBieSBIVFRQIGRvd24gdGhlIGNoYWluLg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgZGlkIGl0IGJv dHRvbSB1cCB5b3Ugd291bGQgY2hvcCBvZmYgb25lIGxhYmVsIGZyb20gdGhlIGxlZnQgYXQgYSB0 aW1lLCB1bnRpbCB5b3UgZm91bmQgdGhlIHpvbmUgZmlsZSB3aXRoIHRoZSB3ZWlyZHMgcmVzb3Vy Y2UgcmVjb3JkICh3aGljaGV2ZXIgb25lIHRoYXQgaXMpIGluIGl0IGFuZCB0aGVuIGhhdmUgdGhl IFVSTCB0byBkbyB0aGUgcXVlcnkuDQoNCkknbSBub3Qgc3VyZSB0aGF0IGVpdGhlciBvZiB0aG9z ZSBhcmUgZmF2b3VyYWJsZSBzbyBJIG9mZmVyIGFub3RoZXIgc29sdXRpb24gdGhhdCBidWlsZHMg b24gdGhlIGV4aXN0aW5nIG9uZS4NCg0KV2hhdCBpZiB0aGUgYm9vdHN0cmFwIGFsZ29yaXRobSB3 ZW50IHNvbWV0aGluZyBsaWtlIHRoaXM6DQoNCklmIElQIGFkZHJlc3MgdGhlbiB0dXJuIGludG8g cmV2ZXJzZSByZXNvbHZlIEROUyBzdHJpbmcgZWxzZSB0aGUgZG9tYWluIG5hbWUgaXMgdGhlIERO UyBzdHJpbmcNCkFwcGVuZCBhIGtub3duIHN0cmluZyB0byB0aGUgRE5TIHN0cmluZyAoZWcuICd3 ZWlyZHMuYXJwYScpYW5kIGZvcm0gdGhlICdsb29rdXAgc3RyaW5nJw0KTG9va3VwIHRoZSBDTkFN RSwgTkFQVFIsIFNSViBvciB3aGljaGV2ZXIgcmVzb3VyY2UgcmVjb3JkIHVzaW5nIHRoZSAnbG9v a3VwIHN0cmluZycgYXMgdGhlIGRvbWFpbiBuYW1lIHRvIGxvb2t1cA0KVGhlIEROUyB3aWxsIHJl dHVybiBlaXRoZXIgdGhlIFVSTCBvciBhIENOQU1FIHRvIHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgKHdoaWNoZXZlciB3 YXkgd2Ugd2FudCBpdCB0byB3b3JrKQ0KVGhlIHF1ZXJ5IHByb2NlZWRzDQoNCk5vdyBhdCBmaXJz dCBnbGFuY2UgdGhpcyBtYXkgc2VlbSBsaWtlIHlvdSBuZWVkIHRvIGZpbGwgdGhlIHdlaXJkcy5h cnBhIHpvbmUgd2l0aCBtYW55IHJlY29yZHMsIGJ1dCBub3QgaWYgeW91IGNvbnNpZGVyIHVzaW5n IHdpbGRjYXJkcy4NCg0KU28gaWYgdGhlIGNvbSBUTEQgb25seSBhbGxvd3MgcmVnaXN0cmF0aW9u cyBhdCB0aGUgMm5kIGxldmVsLCB0aGV5IGNvdWxkIGFzayB0byBoYXZlDQogICouY29tIE5BUFRS IDxVUkw+DQpJbiB0aGUgd2VpcmRzLmFycGEgem9uZSBmaWxlLg0KRm9yIGF1IHdlIENPVUxEIHB1 dCB0aGVzZSByZWNvcmRzIGluDQogICAqLmF1IE5BUFRSIDxVUkw+DQogICAqLmNvbS5hdSBOQVBU UiA8VVJMPg0KICAgKi5uZXQuYXUgIE5BUFRSIDxVUkw+DQpPciB3ZSBDT1VMRCBvbmx5IHB1dCB0 aGUgYXUgcmVjb3JkIGluIGFuZCBhbGxvdyB0aGUgYXUgV2hvSXMgdG8gZG8gSFRUUCByZWRpcmVj dHMgdG8gY2hpbGRyZW4NCkkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGlzIGFwcHJvYWNoIGNvdWxkIGJlIHVzZWQgZm9y IElQIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBXaG9JcyB0b28uDQoNClNvIGlmIEkgd2FzIGZhY2VkIHdpdGggYm9vdHN0 cmFwcGluZyBhIHJlcXVlc3QgZm9yIA0KDQpleGFtcGxlLmNvbS5hdQ0KSSB3b3VsZCBsb29rIHVw IHRoZSB3ZWlyZHMgcmVjb3JkIGZvciBleGFtcGxlLmNvbS5hdS53ZWlyZHMuYXJwYQ0KQW5kIHRo ZSBETlMgd291bGQgbWF0Y2ggYXBwcm9wcmlhdGVseSBiYXNlZCBvbiB3aGF0IHdhcyBjb25maWd1 cmVkLCBhbmQgdGhlbiB0aGUgaHR0cHMgc2VydmljZSBjb3VsZCByZWRpcmVjdCBpZiAvYXMgcmVx dWlyZWQuIEl0IGlzIGEgdmVyeSBmbGV4aWFibGUgc29sdXRpb24uDQoNCklmIEkgd2FzIGZhY2Vk IHdpdGggYm9vdHN0cmFwcGluZyBhIHJlcXVlc3QgZm9yIDIwMy4xOC41Ni4xMQ0KSSB3b3VsZCBs b29rIHVwIHRoZSB3ZWlyZHMgcmVjb3JkIGZvciAxMS41Ni4xOC4yMDMuaW4tYWRkci5hcnBhLndl aXJkcy5hcnBhDQpBbmQgc28gZm9ydGguLg0KDQpXaGF0IGRvIHlvdSBndXlzIHRoaW5rPw0KDQpU aGFua3MNCg0KQ2hyaXMNCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogSm9o biBMZXZpbmUgW21haWx0bzpqb2hubEB0YXVnaC5jb21dIA0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCAyMCBKdWx5 IDIwMTIgMTE6MTEgQU0NClRvOiB3ZWlyZHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCkNjOiBDaHJpcyBXcmlnaHQNClN1 YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbd2VpcmRzXSB0aGUgYm9vdHN0cmFwIHByb2JsZW0sIFJlZGlyZWN0aW9uIGlu IHRoZSBSRVNUZnVsIFdIT0lTIHdvcmxkDQoNCj5JJ20gbm90IHN1cmUgeW91IHVuZGVyc3Rvb2Qg dGhlIGlkZWEsDQo+DQo+VGhlcmUgd291bGQgb25seSBiZSBvbmUgcmVjb3JkIGluIHRoZSB6b25l IGZpbGUNCg0KVW0sIElQIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBkb24ndCBoYXZlIHpvbmUgZmlsZXMuDQoNClIncywN CkpvaG4NCg== From chris@ausregistry.com.au Thu Jul 19 19:02:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A29221F85A0 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:02:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.343 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.343 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.943, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, SARE_SPOOF_COM2COM=2.536, SPOOF_COM2OTH=2.044] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YPcpB-KWvCtm for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60CDC11E80C7 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2012 12:03:23 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:03:10 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: Chris Wright Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:04:03 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world Thread-Index: Ac1mG8/JkSPgJ/b2T5+BgXYzTFgjhw== Message-ID: References: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD7209B@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> <20120720011046.96838.qmail@joyce.lan> <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD72111@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> In-Reply-To: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD72111@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 02:02:33 -0000 FYI the 'they do if you turn them into their reverse DNS form' was in reply= to the IP addresses don't have zone files comment. Thanks c. On 20/07/2012, at 12:00, "Chris Wright" wrote: > They do if you turn them into their reverse DNS form. It works fine. >=20 > The only thing to consider is do we want to do top down or bottom up sear= ching.. >=20 > For example in .au we have registrations at the third level foo.com.au an= d even 4th level foo.vic.gov.au >=20 > If you did it top down you would get the weirds URL from the tld DNS and = then be redirected by HTTP down the chain. >=20 > If you did it bottom up you would chop off one label from the left at a t= ime, until you found the zone file with the weirds resource record (whichev= er one that is) in it and then have the URL to do the query. >=20 > I'm not sure that either of those are favourable so I offer another solut= ion that builds on the existing one. >=20 > What if the bootstrap algorithm went something like this: >=20 > If IP address then turn into reverse resolve DNS string else the domain n= ame is the DNS string > Append a known string to the DNS string (eg. 'weirds.arpa')and form the '= lookup string' > Lookup the CNAME, NAPTR, SRV or whichever resource record using the 'look= up string' as the domain name to lookup > The DNS will return either the URL or a CNAME to the server (whichever wa= y we want it to work) > The query proceeds >=20 > Now at first glance this may seem like you need to fill the weirds.arpa z= one with many records, but not if you consider using wildcards. >=20 > So if the com TLD only allows registrations at the 2nd level, they could = ask to have > *.com NAPTR > In the weirds.arpa zone file. > For au we COULD put these records in > *.au NAPTR > *.com.au NAPTR > *.net.au NAPTR > Or we COULD only put the au record in and allow the au WhoIs to do HTTP r= edirects to children > I believe this approach could be used for IP addresses WhoIs too. >=20 > So if I was faced with bootstrapping a request for=20 >=20 > example.com.au > I would look up the weirds record for example.com.au.weirds.arpa > And the DNS would match appropriately based on what was configured, and t= hen the https service could redirect if /as required. It is a very flexiabl= e solution. >=20 > If I was faced with bootstrapping a request for 203.18.56.11 > I would look up the weirds record for 11.56.18.203.in-addr.arpa.weirds.ar= pa > And so forth.. >=20 > What do you guys think? >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Chris >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: John Levine [mailto:johnl@taugh.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, 20 July 2012 11:11 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Cc: Chris Wright > Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful W= HOIS world >=20 >> I'm not sure you understood the idea, >>=20 >> There would only be one record in the zone file >=20 > Um, IP addresses don't have zone files. >=20 > R's, > John > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From johnl@taugh.com Thu Jul 19 20:36:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8921D11E80EA for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:36:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8jJQsw37b5T9 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF6B11E8072 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 88241 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2012 03:36:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=158b0.5008d25a.k1207; bh=TLmdzbovbgfwNVZrhxxuWaggL8mzZ5hcumjRBD8V6gU=; b=dy9K7tb8Ldj922dS1KWYo+9isVOj1UBvp5xAlqTI6XEdqaaIlpWOzGgcPktW6BZ0qT7dokZY2MU7ZRQRjzK8zo4Z2C+zMAZ+Jg9+mup1tNio9C3ChtLkNaoHO2G6tMOVnQK9jouIfuhvunwr339DyWDq+FSsFf6rCImIouL82cw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=158b0.5008d25a.k1207; bh=TLmdzbovbgfwNVZrhxxuWaggL8mzZ5hcumjRBD8V6gU=; b=D22sP61Iq/Ke2MYBgnGCXBZOpnZbxRjRscM8b9yrHcUpDCTIcJc1ZIJ4eYckAIK8smEHBLco879sQeDPqMQ7A/y9W/uAN049R0VElmLAfhr+tankh+EdXSc8m21xo6mE80TGGPK4gjB+vHiocRF3Vl8OfFKabwcjLd6x8LQOfy0= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 20 Jul 2012 03:36:36 -0000 Date: 19 Jul 2012 23:36:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Chris Wright" In-Reply-To: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD72111@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> References: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD7209B@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> <20120720011046.96838.qmail@joyce.lan> <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD72111@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:36:06 -0000 > They do if you turn them into their reverse DNS form. It works fine. Two points. One is that rDNS zones have never had anything in them other than NS, CNAME, and PTR. You'd hope that nothing strange would happen if you put in other stuff, but I wouldn't want to try it without some significant testing first. I thought SRV was a swell idea until Andy reported that a lot of the queries to the existing WEIRDS prototype are coming from Javascript programs that are running in web browsers. There is no way to do a DNS lookup from Javascript other than the implicit A and AAAA lookup that happens when it fetches a URL. That makes any DNS hack beyond one that gives predictable CNAMEs to servers a complete non-starter. > If IP address then turn into reverse resolve DNS string else the domain > name is the DNS string. Append a known string to the DNS string (eg. > 'weirds.arpa') and form the 'lookup string' [ and then do something with > wildcards ] > What do you guys think? Having written my share of DNS client and server software, it's vastly overcomplicated. For names, a CNAME pointing to the server at .weirds.arpa would work. If your ccTLD is subdivided at the second or third level, it's your job to set up appropriate referral servers. For IPv4, .weirds.arpa, where NNN is the high octet of the address will also work. IANA has already assigned each /8 to an RIR for WHOIS management, nothing new there. IPv6 is a little tricker, since IANA's allocations were originally /23 and have since grown to /12. If we do x.x.x.x.x.x.weirds.arpa, where the x's are the first six hex digits of the address, a zone with an entry for all of the allocated space would have about 21K entries. That's a factor of 10 bigger than the TLD list (assuming ICANN allocates most of the 1500 TLDs applied for) but still not ridiculous. I realize you could shrink the zone by using reversing the digits and using wildcards, but then it'd refer queries for addresses that aren't allocated to servers that aren't expecting them, which doesn't strike me as a good idea. R's, John From chris@ausregistry.com.au Thu Jul 19 21:16:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5264421F85C0 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:16:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.859 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.859 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DZ377Nrr8nTu for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2863621F85B8 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2012 14:16:56 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:16:43 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: John R Levine Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:16:53 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world Thread-Index: Ac1mLnfsc1F99qsTQAK557wqmM9GfQ== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:16:04 -0000 Thanks John, On 20/07/12 1:36 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >> They do if you turn them into their reverse DNS form. It works fine. > >Two points. One is that rDNS zones have never had anything in them other >than NS, CNAME, and PTR. You'd hope that nothing strange would happen if >you put in other stuff, but I wouldn't want to try it without some >significant testing first. > >I thought SRV was a swell idea until Andy reported that a lot of the >queries to the existing WEIRDS prototype are coming from Javascript >programs that are running in web browsers. There is no way to do a DNS >lookup from Javascript other than the implicit A and AAAA lookup that >happens when it fetches a URL. That makes any DNS hack beyond one that >gives predictable CNAMEs to servers a complete non-starter. > Im not sure that we should dismiss a workable solution simply because one technology doesn't support it, and it is solvable in that technology, it would simply need to call to a web service first that 'figured out' what the correct URL is to send the lookup to. (I.e. some service side script). That=B9s no better or worse of a 'workaround' than the one that was suggested for the CNAME / Virtual hosting issue (which seems to be just use more IPs). If you really want to solve the Javascript problem you just need a central http starting point to redirect people the right way, but that=B9s ugly (and can you say single point of failure) and I dunno, to me it just doesn't make sense to design an internet protocol around a restriction in one piece of technology, which could change in the future anyway. I digress though as I still prefer the wildcard solution which would still allow CNAMES to be used anyway. As for the 2nd level registrations vs 3rd level registrations, I am fine having the TLD server redirect further down, was just pointing out that if we weren't fine with that, the DNS method could be used too. (In fact they are not mutely exclusive so why not leave it as a choice). Thanks Chris From johnl@iecc.com Thu Jul 19 21:37:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807F821F85D0 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:37:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -111.132 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-111.132 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.067, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cuCHNasqmGp5 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 231E821F85D3 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 96542 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2012 04:37:59 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2012 04:37:59 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=5008e0a7.xn--i8sz2z.k1207; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=NuQQeAbYBTjge4Ob1Ss16FjboYhHeGjL4iFdVvcEPZ0=; b=n3FXSq+oaN5vR/va5y0zWlu7DUH77FYlLgo3MSwpLcVTuIYkLyAcAGKwIGqun1aXue5zGVhCnQ8wY7KbOAdtSAO3QZSZJTkXMOpjE4BjZCEUBpN0z7Gq4WTpV/CgTnOdbgjpJC8gwYxxzrCMN4qNVUILbTlrZl0W/S0pTYtRZ4s= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=5008e0a7.xn--i8sz2z.k1207; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=NuQQeAbYBTjge4Ob1Ss16FjboYhHeGjL4iFdVvcEPZ0=; b=lUhmKofRA2UftIX71qD7v+9R0XpqPjp2258xq4A/2C5NXnmieGY8zwWMJ72oHtkj/0Vbttzbc/2Iw5nbNlnoBntmRTjIfRWG0S/m5PDSX2mdL81etPHAh9z1ii08CCz4z1bnAcRTfOBvt5nrjfMSJYyAR3XwyvvP/YDmWiPA+3k= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 20 Jul 2012 04:37:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20120720043737.60219.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:37:09 -0000 >Im not sure that we should dismiss a workable solution simply because one >technology doesn't support it There's going to be a thousand times as many WEIRDS clients as WEIRDS servers. Given a choice between adding more complexity to the clients and adding it to the servers, the correct choice is clearly to do the work in the servers. We need some way to bootstrap the queries and find an initial server, but the simpler the bootstrap the better. Once the client has found an initial server, the servers know how to do referrals. > it would simply need to call to a web service first that 'figured out' what >the correct URL is to send the lookup to. A web service? That would be the initial WEIRDS server found via a CNAME, and the URL would be returned as a referral. What would be the advantage of inventing another web service that sort of does what WEIRDS already can do? R's, John From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Thu Jul 19 23:45:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCECA21F850F for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:45:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.581 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.581 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zFxc3wFfxLSH for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nominet.org.uk (mx4.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C35E721F8642 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:45:25 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=PWvl+HnZN6P4KO35tghsD6E55Z3C+tkZ6X6a5I0EQuIKsHidBVapupji kPra8eYk8BZfdJz7Kr4K2ycdGsr3wxWGB8K+nFlBhrgiAwIp+g4mhZTFD wMmNvXWHwguLGic; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1342766782; x=1374302782; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20RE:=20[weirds]=20Authentication=20Methods |Date:=20Fri,=2020=20Jul=202012=2006:39:42=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20<8B7F972437853B40865000D86857B1D1010721B7E 3@wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk>|To:=20Andy=20Newton=20|CC:=20Web=20Extensible=20Internet=20Registra tion=20Data=20Service=20Working=20Group=0D=0A=09|MIME-Version:=201.0|Content-Transfer-Encoding: =20quoted-printable|In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20<20120718142657.2 6067.qmail@joyce.lan>=0D=0A=20<8152AEFC-9398-47E7-9DEE-A6 62F0E64E28@arin.net>=0D=0A=20<002701cd6550$6c1a3ba0$444eb 2e0$@cn>=0D=0A=20,; bh=Wn/MQBWKD3fh6cgEHbtlbnCMRj8WnZ1Nza3eQQ5ZWC8=; b=ES2wZDixWBpQVnvGK4K58u5eLsKqJPPLXifpA8ownrCn7JPVbiqwucG+ lKVl1pzo2VkxWvo5jLIxe1wN81Yi4OHB5QdOCIYtsKYRrx+Ym0Q+vamXB elegU8geMhb6Af0; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,621,1336345200"; d="scan'208";a="34239094" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2012 07:46:19 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:46:18 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: Andy Newton Thread-Topic: [weirds] Authentication Methods Thread-Index: AQHNYzSVaT5sUZ9lAki+OrM4ADgQbpcurl0AgABdO4CAABfFgIAApk0AgABp6wCAAHk/gIABEaU1 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 06:39:42 +0000 Message-ID: <8B7F972437853B40865000D86857B1D1010721B7E3@wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk> References: <20120718142657.26067.qmail@joyce.lan> <8152AEFC-9398-47E7-9DEE-A662F0E64E28@arin.net> <002701cd6550$6c1a3ba0$444eb2e0$@cn> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service Working Group Subject: Re: [weirds] Authentication Methods X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 06:45:28 -0000 > We need to be careful here. If we define so many MUSTs (or even MAYs), th= ere will be push back that this is a heavyweight specification and some wil= l use that to avoid implementation.=0A= =0A= IMHO we should restrict our stronger 2119 keywords for those authentication= methods that are universally supported in HTTP library APIs (e.g. basic au= th, TLS client certs) and none of those new-fangled end-user-centric method= s (e.g. OpenID).=0A= =0A= Ray=0A= From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Fri Jul 20 03:17:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB7721F8525 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:17:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hRekSNxtBI9R for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57D2D21F8522 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:17:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=PhkR3TX6mxUtC+ZlgYZlGCFODtXJx4yuzI90TMXKN4PM5qQM7YxpnrQX L6K502MF1lz+5UAI7MfqfnU3LkuH8mINJQUxgZ9Ux2zmHqXCZb00ZMTO5 smKf9IevcZmtSoj; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1342779513; x=1374315513; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20REST-pect-ful|Date:=20Fri, =2020=20Jul=202012=2010:18:29=20+0000|Message-ID:=20<3292 9BD0-0604-4C5F-BDC2-30313A1D1AB9@nominet.org.uk>|To:=20Pe ter=20Koch=20|CC:=20""=20|MIME-Version:=201.0 |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |Content-ID:=20<63eb46eb-4b11-4925-a4f9-6d93d464e3b4> |In-Reply-To:=20<20120719180542.GF24669@x28.adm.denic.de> |References:=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20<20120719180542.GF24669@x28.adm.denic.de>; bh=FuCRy7sW3IcmBCvMKj+EHge1X+cifV8SzF7Hp1A5iDY=; b=R2IYudAg64YcKZ4ebhfQOvj/9G0fD1umORknCP99bUO2RPqffiZwrlMY tJjJ3hnij02Rr9O8+IGFz5Q4cm21Vxibfdk8Qi6LIZNLi4AQHkbz0Wpe/ zo6SZewLJZb243H; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,622,1336345200"; d="scan'208";a="34243963" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2012 11:18:30 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:18:29 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: Peter Koch Thread-Topic: [weirds] REST-pect-ful Thread-Index: AQHNX6F5WbKwdHS6fEepy8hgOHL685ckdGMAgAAGEgCAAGxBgIAL+3wAgAEPyoA= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:18:29 +0000 Message-ID: <32929BD0-0604-4C5F-BDC2-30313A1D1AB9@nominet.org.uk> References: <20120719180542.GF24669@x28.adm.denic.de> In-Reply-To: <20120719180542.GF24669@x28.adm.denic.de> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <63eb46eb-4b11-4925-a4f9-6d93d464e3b4> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REST-pect-ful X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:17:38 -0000 On 19 Jul 2012, at 19:05, Peter Koch wrote: > In those cases where an object or an attribute is withheld I do not > think it would be either proper protocol design to add a magic string > (as opposed to an extra alphabetical token) or within the purpose > of the limited visibility to disclose the presence of the data. +1 - I see no benefit in informing the client about data that exists but ha= s been omitted. Ray From vesely@tana.it Fri Jul 20 03:44:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7754F21F859B for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:44:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.626 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.626 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XyWuJQdgqRga for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (www.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08F221F8575 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:44:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1342781121; bh=BjtB9/Py/5x1PU7Bh/CzulSQ7OE36vOoegAweEGGzz4=; l=789; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=erlSvVM+9C38IlJUDjGYpL/JkJ6tFSPmZIuIdKPJZUCeUsZ+i4i9YRFW2HytYG9I1 4WMc2jaesdQfk+Whir/ba2EDG576fMowz5lffdCgbVh0TyqxVRlo3b+04yS8eSkJlp 0zexFhwtAO2FjEKReu03Eu1U8W4uysx6n2ROvPRI= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:45:21 +0200 id 00000000005DC047.00000000500936C1.000015EB Message-ID: <500936C1.60109@tana.it> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:45:21 +0200 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD7209B@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> <20120720011046.96838.qmail@joyce.lan> <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD72111@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:44:29 -0000 On Fri 20/Jul/2012 05:36:57 +0200 John R Levine wrote: > > IPv6 is a little tricker, since IANA's allocations were originally /23 > and have since grown to /12. If we do x.x.x.x.x.x.weirds.arpa, where > the x's are the first six hex digits of the address, a zone with an > entry for all of the allocated space would have about 21K entries. > That's a factor of 10 bigger than the TLD list (assuming ICANN > allocates most of the 1500 TLDs applied for) but still not > ridiculous. I realize you could shrink the zone by using reversing > the digits and using wildcards, but then it'd refer queries for > addresses that aren't allocated to servers that aren't expecting them, > which doesn't strike me as a good idea. Would using DNAMEs yield workable practices in this case? From dk@hostmaster.ua Fri Jul 20 04:40:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD1621F85AD for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:40:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a9F8CXu2tpRk for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5194D21F85A3 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.42]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA71209A3; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.160]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:41:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :references:to; s=smtpout; bh=NW8ePgxUCwNRT0TIbiDz8RK/joA=; b=IG DKhLuARzC6WpFcbzx69djmjq4MnYTbPFHglte/hV6j5yIn6nXJnz2JUIe7ZEFdJo 1MwpYcuPKyiv43pGgOGE9OB2zwDkaea0CEW+NWel2OZdixLvYkc9Q3ifqTbDuohK Q861wZDG/cxzJMPuPKQQVwX4N6LYbn0kzVRluJaLo= X-Sasl-enc: f42bPYjpBDKl0eN44MF0bE8oY/Pwo9L/H6oA9HuroON7 1342784506 Received: from dhcp156.hostmaster.ua (unknown [109.70.104.123]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6F3388E01FC; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:41:44 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8225CDBD-8543-49B7-8D0C-6F71B58C7056@hostmaster.ua> References: <20120710212029.77643.qmail@joyce.lan> <4AC81C86-BF30-4201-977A-CD19D808E1C9@arin.net> To: John R Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:40:54 -0000 On Jul 11, 2012, at 6:57 PM, John R Levine wrote: >=20 > There are lots of redirects in the name space. One of particular = interest to me is that the .US domain still has subregistries for many = geographic domains, and the subregistry agreement requires that we = provide WHOIS. I run one of those subregistries, but have never = bothered to provide WHOIS because if I did, there would be no way for = anyone to find it. This was brought home to me last week when I started = getting confirmation mail from Godaddy for SSL certificates that one of = my registrants had bought. Here in upstate NY things are pretty = informal, and five minutes after the first message arrived, the phone = rang and it was the registrant (the government of a nearby county) = telling me that they'd ordered them so could I please approve them. But = that doesn't scale too well. in UA ccTLD (which I help to run) we have whois.ua server automagically = redirect whois queries to various sub registries when needed. sample: % request from 2001:4130::3544:bb73:25bf:6a1e % This is the Ukrainian Whois query server #F. % The Whois is subject to Terms of use % See https://hostmaster.ua/services/ % % The object shown below is NOT in the UANIC database. % It has been obtained by querying a remote server: % (whois.dp.ua) at port 43. % % REDIRECT BEGIN % This is the Dnepropetrovsk Whois query server. % domain: whois.dp.ua [=85] Our approach does not scale well (as central whois server for UA has = 50-something public delegations) but it works fine in ccTLD space. I would consider using _nicname._tcp.domain.ua approach for those who = want to get whois server information directly from delegated domain. > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. >=20 > PS: The whois.iana.org server has both an IPv4 address and an IPv6 = address, but the IPv6 address doesn't work, as in I can't connect, can't = ping, and traceroutes get lost somewhere in NTT's network. I'd think = that if anyone actually used it, someone would have noticed and fixed = this by now. you must have some problems with your IPv6 connectivity in upstate NY - = here in Ukraine, IPv6 address of whois.iana.org works just fine: $ telnet -6 whois.iana.org nicname Trying 2620:0:2830:200::59... Connected to ianawhois.vip.icann.org. Escape character is '^]'. ua % IANA WHOIS server % for more information on IANA, visit http://www.iana.org % This query returned 1 object domain: UA organisation: Communication Systems Ltd address: vul Vavilovykh 18 address: Kyiv 04060 address: Ukraine [=85]= From fneves@registro.br Fri Jul 20 04:56:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B752E21F8570 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:56:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SKOvXY5KaiFV for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CFB421F8569 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 28EB5E042F; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:57:06 -0300 (BRT) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:57:06 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: John R Levine Message-ID: <20120720115706.GG85645@registro.br> References: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD7209B@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> <20120720011046.96838.qmail@joyce.lan> <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB729CD72111@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] the bootstrap problem, Redirection in the RESTful WHOIS world X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service $WEIRDS$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:56:11 -0000 On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 11:36:57PM -0400, John R Levine wrote: > > They do if you turn them into their reverse DNS form. It works fine. > > Two points. One is that rDNS zones have never had anything in them other > than NS, CNAME, and PTR. You'd hope that nothing strange would happen if > you put in other stuff, but I wouldn't want to try it without some > significant testing first. This is a red herring, these zones are not special and any RR supported or not (3597) works just fine. The IP -> ARPA conversion is done at the DNS client code or stub resolver library level. > I thought SRV was a swell idea until Andy reported that a lot of the > queries to the existing WEIRDS prototype are coming from Javascript > programs that are running in web browsers. There is no way to do a DNS > lookup from Javascript other than the implicit A and AAAA lookup that So that said _weirds._tcp.TLD IN A works just fine for a limited bootstrap as long as we could live with a fixed the port. This looks like a reasonable compromise for simplicity sake. Fred From fneves@registro.br Fri Jul 20 05:06:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA34121F85D5 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 05:06:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hjhDy8rBDgZO for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 05:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8FF21F85D1 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 05:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 875F8E0511; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:07:54 -0300 (BRT) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:07:54 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-ID: <20120720120754.GH85645@registro.br> References: <20120710212029.77643.qmail@joyce.lan> <4AC81C86-BF30-4201-977A-CD19D808E1C9@arin.net>

Given that some cruddy client libraries still don't support NAPTR, and that most of the things people are proposing to do for bootstraps can be done with slightly more CNAME records, I don't understand why we need NAPTR at all.

There's a trade-off between client complexity for NAPTR, and server complexity to support SNI or manage multiple CA certs. Both issues are "real" in that someone would have to deal with them. Both issues are not intractable. I favour putting the complexity on the server side. I favour this particularly because adding the processing required to go from a set of NAPTR records fetched, to connecting to the right server, would be as much as or more processing than is required to go from connecting to the right server to having a parsed weirds response in memory. It would not be a doubling of complexity to support SNI on the server side, nor to manage 100 SSL certs.

I'd like to note that the ability to host web content, including javascript, is different to the ability to host web server scripts; there would be a set of users who could include a weirds script on their page, but not put a DNS resolver service on their web host. I think this would be a less common issue than just the complexity of processing NAPTRs, but when it is an issue, it's effectively an intractable problem: changing web host providers is a non-solution, IMO.

I'm curious about how strong the perceived need is for channel security, too. Is it something we should consider mandatory, something that should be optional at service operator discretion, or perhaps related to differential access class needs?

Also, there's a taxonomy invented by ICANN for these services, though they sadly forgot what the first "N" in ICANN stands for. Rather than weirds.arpa, I would prefer us to use rd-ds.arpa, taking the "DNRD-DS" taxonomy and dropping the "DN" part :-)

Olaf M. Kolkman
www.NLnetLabs.nl olaf@NLnetLabs.nl
Science Park 400, 1098 XH Amsterdam, The = Netherlands