From vesely@tana.it Wed Aug 1 16:33:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D056911E8334 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:33:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.719 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.719 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4c01EHfbmMyD for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (mail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2968411E840B for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:33:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1343864010; bh=IsB6K8ZoZutWnxWmDdlbT6CT+8bpncQ35UUNfiGTOBc=; l=1757; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Ycv99SwaRilGcuS12JTRawv8Pe2iXriHO+W6BbmeH8udIPRjqxFmC8dr9A2VlqSIp YTASj87vW6GKJul6fLi4qISWqzkoqKM+3cin2/FgP5Fxs4a0+6TDqzLb4HNeuUEOBi Sumnf4NSwDAq1yxO5DlGLe4CZJORc5O0dBZ6tQrI= Received: from [130.129.16.138] (dhcp-108a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.16.138]) (AUTH: PLAIN 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 01:33:29 +0200 id 00000000005DC045.000000005019BCC9.00001270 Message-ID: <5019BCC2.10809@tana.it> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:33:22 -0700 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:33:34 -0000 Hi, this is a written version of the triangular paths I came out with during this morning's session. The triangle CIR is composed by a client C, who is registered at a weirds server I that plays the role of an identity provider, and a target weirds server R, a.k.a. "relaying party" in remote authentication parlance. *C queries R identified by I* This path requires a bootstrap mechanism to locate R, possibly through some redirection. At this point OpenID/OAuth is needed in order for R to collect relevant data from I. Pros: The bootstrap mechanism works independently of auth. Cons: The authentication mechanism is not HTTP-native. *C gets redirection and authentication from I* This assumes the client is operated by someone who is identified by an appropriate whois record at I. It further assumes weirds servers trust one another. I identifies C and determines the target server. It is quite heavy to encode a certificate in a RESTful query, hence I has to pass a pointer to itself. R will learn the identity provider that way. Pros: The redirector's load is proportional to the number of registered users in the corresponding TLD. As an alternative, small weirds servers may want to directly connect to R and perform the query on behalf of C. It is called "mashup" in web services parlance. An advantage of such additional work is the server's ability to monitor not only the query, but also the result R delivers. That way, local policies can be tuned taking into account the symmetrical policies that other TLDs operate. Pros: HTTP authentication suffices. *Note* The above is about authenticated queries only. What percentage are they? Is this split transverse w.r.t. names/numbers? jm2c From aservin@lacnic.net Wed Aug 1 16:45:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEEED11E809A for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:45:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.885, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n+uG7fYGmz+L for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72BB911E8279 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.17.118] (dhcp-1176.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.17.118]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBDE9308455; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 20:44:52 -0300 (UYT) References: <5019BCC2.10809@tana.it> In-Reply-To: <5019BCC2.10809@tana.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: Arturo Servin Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:47:36 -0700 To: Alessandro Vesely X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:45:07 -0000 I thought that today we dropped bootstrapping and authentication had to be s= imple. Did I miss something? Did I misunderstand something? as On 1 Aug 2012, at 16:33, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > Hi, > this is a written version of the triangular paths I came out with > during this morning's session. >=20 > The triangle CIR is composed by a client C, who is registered at a > weirds server I that plays the role of an identity provider, and a > target weirds server R, a.k.a. "relaying party" in remote > authentication parlance. >=20 > *C queries R identified by I* >=20 > This path requires a bootstrap mechanism to locate R, possibly through > some redirection. At this point OpenID/OAuth is needed in order for R > to collect relevant data from I. >=20 > Pros: The bootstrap mechanism works independently of auth. > Cons: The authentication mechanism is not HTTP-native. >=20 > *C gets redirection and authentication from I* >=20 > This assumes the client is operated by someone who is identified by an > appropriate whois record at I. It further assumes weirds servers > trust one another. I identifies C and determines the target server. > It is quite heavy to encode a certificate in a RESTful query, hence I > has to pass a pointer to itself. R will learn the identity provider > that way. >=20 > Pros: The redirector's load is proportional to the number of > registered users in the corresponding TLD. >=20 > As an alternative, small weirds servers may want to directly connect > to R and perform the query on behalf of C. It is called "mashup" in > web services parlance. An advantage of such additional work is the > server's ability to monitor not only the query, but also the result R > delivers. That way, local policies can be tuned taking into account > the symmetrical policies that other TLDs operate. >=20 > Pros: HTTP authentication suffices. >=20 > *Note* >=20 > The above is about authenticated queries only. What percentage are > they? Is this split transverse w.r.t. names/numbers? >=20 > jm2c > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Wed Aug 1 18:10:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B2911E80FD for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:10:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3CpcI80HzbXZ for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FBC11E80A3 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:10:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=dp4rEUHl6TeaXY1XH5sG91dEUb4MeFAMTuHbSyGBrRrqS76BfI53C0K4 LD23Kv4Hbjxx7KKjcPWp+IkdH+FjrLFoF5ASsuWOup4En2qyc6+1mUiBf 8Cuw8HMB7/1Hz9x; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1343869830; x=1375405830; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20Auth=20vs=20bootstrap|Date: =20Thu,=202=20Aug=202012=2001:10:16=20+0000|Message-ID: =20<37BF6C01-491D-4FFC-8A23-6A178CE80EA6@nominet.org.uk> |To:=20Arturo=20Servin=20|CC:=20"weir ds@ietf.org"=20|MIME-Version:=201.0 |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |Content-ID:=20<29a38e7e-d3bd-47d2-b1ff-b83de4d146a1> |In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20<5019BCC2.10809@tana.it>=0D=0A=20< D2AFD013-1894-4023-A71C-41F904FB7D12@lacnic.net>; bh=6sDLfrS0zBebOutfFEm/4zcbVR2WcRVZWczqvfriFTQ=; b=zPZg4LHmrn85Whh6HOvJR743DVzzmJ2JyFzZHcAb19Npz2BxUerFR/Mm qqWR46ayfCXzk67ybyxnwVZ9Y1PxY5q1KHB0hYQ+pYrjYRfvdiZVzVwbu JisQpdQDSnicPnM; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,697,1336345200"; d="scan'208";a="41989310" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2012 02:10:18 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 02:10:17 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap Thread-Index: AQHNcD4U1DKku4qWY0WF0U2snXZTzJdFjs4AgAAXGAA= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:10:16 +0000 Message-ID: <37BF6C01-491D-4FFC-8A23-6A178CE80EA6@nominet.org.uk> References: <5019BCC2.10809@tana.it> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <29a38e7e-d3bd-47d2-b1ff-b83de4d146a1> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 01:10:31 -0000 On 1 Aug 2012, at 16:47, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > I thought that today we dropped bootstrapping and authentication had to b= e simple. >=20 > Did I miss something? >=20 > Did I misunderstand something? I thought we concluded yes on simple authentication (for now), but didn't d= rop bootstrapping... Ray From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Wed Aug 1 18:24:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E4511E811E for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9TrsEHhwKLLr for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8545A11E811D for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:24:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=TgAiAZQGOQ0a1jtq4ZWswObnqyd27GcjP2LW+enrpmqwasMf5D4CW+LI wiIPWPXEIkdfaIyFAGibXkGUuHBLKdLbHDcp+FvOqpuatmTLzBoeUUXrS eds7/+NO4rD6zak; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1343870678; x=1375406678; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20Auth=20vs=20bootstrap|Date: =20Thu,=202=20Aug=202012=2001:24:35=20+0000|Message-ID: =20 |To:=20Alessandro=20Vesely=20|CC:=20""=20|MIME-Version:=201.0 |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |Content-ID:=20<4489c7ac-7288-401f-9cc0-6a91559507bc> |In-Reply-To:=20<5019BCC2.10809@tana.it>|References:=20<5 019BCC2.10809@tana.it>; bh=faxxMvNnOw6QxxiLP9DQArnKXUFkUfOW7XWWfkj/KZU=; b=Yx2Gzj4VeFhsmgNpQ/1CRvB6hlGXGSxyhJXpFscPRjQU8YGCcimVIy5y yIr76KNEV6/kOvkcNSfZ/w7mkWPQz+W9uZhYrNwlAET316TLbj4epp7Pr M4bkzlEKigIAnOB; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,697,1336345200"; d="scan'208";a="41989366" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2012 02:24:37 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 02:24:36 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: Alessandro Vesely Thread-Topic: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap Thread-Index: AQHNcD4U1DKku4qWY0WF0U2snXZTzJdFqeaA Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:24:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5019BCC2.10809@tana.it> In-Reply-To: <5019BCC2.10809@tana.it> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4489c7ac-7288-401f-9cc0-6a91559507bc> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 01:24:40 -0000 On 1 Aug 2012, at 16:33, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > The triangle CIR is composed by a client C, who is registered at a > weirds server I that plays the role of an identity provider, and a > target weirds server R, a.k.a. "relaying party" in remote > authentication parlance. FWIW, if we redirect a second-level domain (e.g. ".ac.uk") to a third party= , we will not want to be involved in _any_ way with authenticating the user= to them, nor proxying the query to them. It'll just be a plain and simple HTTP redirect. Ray From superuser@gmail.com Wed Aug 1 22:57:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC6411E8148 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:57:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.663 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.663 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.065, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rr82bOkO082d for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBCC711E812A for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lagv3 with SMTP id v3so5324763lag.31 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:57:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mirI3CkauuvTG70o2+saAlawzQ4lQHQW2CgJXrTAq7A=; b=hMosXnnwD4aneLUMTrtADy+oeegFepLLI+u/WhBjJr/nYbnFUC8yTesUGJhXvy/swh LRmKBw07q9L+5+Ahv2Sz8Vl0bOSxVdaSdZ0443kfsU/GMhx+QyPdt/L3vF8PJkUrgAO+ a9/V6BpPuNxX868qV//gSmoFMsda9OTN+t8VrHr6v3KcuXo29y44gBItMdpF/+Tek1y8 BnEnRnAGDL/hzqw6y3Ybigecs7F6YkCv9FF05QafiRd2DowR/7ySVGp9HeMrvYXoSSqQ M5e7B8KqTX23MGiszD53q91ocpuuouyMkWrctYEu9AqVy0m1SO0DWVf5eHugbrNbo6+d /b0w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.83.169 with SMTP id r9mr8897147lby.66.1343887033608; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.89.3 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:57:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <37BF6C01-491D-4FFC-8A23-6A178CE80EA6@nominet.org.uk> References: <5019BCC2.10809@tana.it> <37BF6C01-491D-4FFC-8A23-6A178CE80EA6@nominet.org.uk> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:57:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Ray Bellis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0401fc4341ac1a04c6421554 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 05:57:15 -0000 --f46d0401fc4341ac1a04c6421554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Ray Bellis wrote: > > I thought we concluded yes on simple authentication (for now), but didn't > drop bootstrapping... > > This was approximately my understanding as well. -MSK --f46d0401fc4341ac1a04c6421554 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Ray Bellis <Ray.Bellis@nominet.org= .uk> wrote:

I thought we concluded yes on simple authentication (for now), but di= dn't drop bootstrapping...


This was approximately my understanding as well.

-MSK

--f46d0401fc4341ac1a04c6421554-- From johnl@iecc.com Wed Aug 1 23:23:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6708211E811E for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:23:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -111.123 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-111.123 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8FQm0M4vQH3m for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912E611E80E3 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 17680 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2012 06:22:58 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2012 06:22:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=501a1cc2.xn--btvx9d.k1208; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=RKtvq0A8/vzpUDkABcHnIjLfh2TGMgh1yt0KfPeQ9eQ=; b=AeULahYBXOqdNcPDNnc3R0RU4B2c9qB09BDrIpK9da8MZxZWi/pXhv1hK/uR4z40MzM3Z9+Lgmlzu5Rn1NEBQtTVL/q8qBMwD5avBJ7DAhNGqolKVjRRWkxtLGCLyIfVGn0IJK+oo9Je1agRXTsMZ1oOkukZw3C5hhN67VlwhGM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=501a1cc2.xn--btvx9d.k1208; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=RKtvq0A8/vzpUDkABcHnIjLfh2TGMgh1yt0KfPeQ9eQ=; b=Tm16KxTDm4m/h15ZO1/gzjSNyxxD5qE5GlFf9DSvQQ/npkDobn7UdlHXqE9cViMH4y7YO2D0oI+DVIjrKld8kYNC3747zyxoZ45bGM8btx/XrbUr0cIWPy44NmEvPgYG/iqpEIW9pNwyddAYxs2/b6UmpBHPp7nhxmkMK/+y0+U= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 2 Aug 2012 06:22:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20120802062236.5634.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 06:23:06 -0000 >> I thought we concluded yes on simple authentication (for now), but didn't >> drop bootstrapping... >> >This was approximately my understanding as well. For bootstrapping, I think we agreed it's not an issue for numbers, since the current approach of starting with the closest RIR is adequate. For names we'll need to do something but we'll worry about it later. R's, John From olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Thu Aug 2 07:49:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDAF11E80A6 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A4dIYA14DixV for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE3911E8072 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8::64:48f1:7c5f:aec8:73bb] ([IPv6:2001:df8:0:64:48f1:7c5f:aec8:73bb]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q72EnTZY006818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:49:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 open.nlnetlabs.nl q72EnTZY006818 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1343918975; bh=An5q0dpXITRvp3ZX8jvxuvM0GajNfHkz8tIzXTE2mZg=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=ngtJo+ACGEoikj0q3q1GIImCFfdJvOrdsDhfG6mc19XK0WRR2tVrk4C7UIrdLizdQ vp08H7xQSGklr287uK9JxM7k17z6jR07Rs4FZ9lydnR/H5bQ8/RksPOEqgV/gDWVni PpgtK700u8sj5hmBsxu0Fl24zBvn8u1dMDmlErF0= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_04E134BB-14BB-4BD7-8B26-B9DB144D3F11" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1485\)) From: Olaf Kolkman In-Reply-To: <20120802062236.5634.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:49:29 -0700 Message-Id: <0D054B67-4EB4-45BC-9F69-937F929DB1FC@NLnetLabs.nl> References: <20120802062236.5634.qmail@joyce.lan> To: John Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1485) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:49:34 +0200 (CEST) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Auth vs bootstrap X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 14:49:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_04E134BB-14BB-4BD7-8B26-B9DB144D3F11 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Aug 1, 2012, at 11:22 PM, John Levine wrote: >>> I thought we concluded yes on simple authentication (for now), but = didn't >>> drop bootstrapping... >>>=20 >> This was approximately my understanding as well. >=20 > For bootstrapping, I think we agreed it's not an issue for numbers, > since the current approach of starting with the closest RIR is > adequate. For names we'll need to do something but we'll worry about > it later. Talking only about numbers-bootstrap: I propose to be very explicit about what 'later' means: after we = finished a base spec.=20 It seems one of those operational things where a bit of running code = might be beneficial before hooking it into protocol. I am not quite saying that we may want to explicitly recharter when we = start working on the bootstrap, but in spirit I am not quite far away = from that modus operandus. Base first, bootstrap later, when there is a = bit of experience. I wonder if that reflects the overall sentiment --Olaf NLnet Labs Olaf M. Kolkman www.NLnetLabs.nl olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Science Park 400, 1098 XH Amsterdam, The Netherlands --Apple-Mail=_04E134BB-14BB-4BD7-8B26-B9DB144D3F11 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii johnl@taugh.com> = wrote:
I thought we concluded yes on simple = authentication (for now), but didn't
drop = bootstrapping...

This was approximately my = understanding as well.

For bootstrapping, I think we = agreed it's not an issue for numbers,
since the current approach of = starting with the closest RIR is
adequate.  For names = we'll need to do something but we'll worry about

Olaf M. Kolkman


Science Park 400, 1098 XH Amsterdam, The = Netherlands



= --Apple-Mail=_04E134BB-14BB-4BD7-8B26-B9DB144D3F11-- From olaf@nlnetlabs.nl Thu Aug 2 18:09:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B315411E80D1 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:09:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.676 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.676 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.078, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uHdDoHSUeZI9 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE6411E8072 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-67ae.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-67ae.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.103.174]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q73195Ud052372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:09:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olaf@nlnetlabs.nl) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 open.nlnetlabs.nl q73195Ud052372 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1343956172; bh=1FAqsQafB37C9snF7twAJBu7uqMwldRn4qqqQPfSdOs=; h=From:Reply-To:Subject:Date:To; b=Keajc6larkHLitmWx4OSHmX9N+YOQcIdk7TR1NQIVBTRHZDEViuXboLyVcnX0NDRn sJN+HWSwMv9wUenyEJCFP+31uEJWu1FaOtnifp1SsGp1nekVdXCGfSYMalAzfgMNBC eWk8GXNfftObfOTm2F7VVhJrbf5JAtnzoVSIyyJI= From: Olaf Kolkman Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6F9976B8-60A3-4AB7-B0C8-9A22B30ED006" Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:09:29 -0700 Message-Id: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> To: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1485\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1485) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [213.154.224.1]); Fri, 03 Aug 2012 03:09:32 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: WEIRD WG Chairs List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 01:09:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6F9976B8-60A3-4AB7-B0C8-9A22B30ED006 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Colleagues, During the WG we talked about a design team to take the objects' = spreadsheet and take a stab at selecting a reasonable selection of often = used, and therefore likely to be part of the core specification objects. For this work the design team is expected to come up with at table of = objects that are candidates for the core specification, with a syntax = and semantic description, if possible based on existing numbers work. The design team that will take a stab at that work is: Andy Newton Arturo Servin Byron Ellacott Carlos Martinez Francisco Arias Francisco Obispo Kaveh Ranjbar Ning Kong Scott Hollenbeck Steve Sheng and James M. Galvin If you feel strongly about joining this team, please drop the chairs a = mail. --Olaf Kolkman (co-chair) _______________________________________________________=20 Olaf Kolkman -- NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ --Apple-Mail=_6F9976B8-60A3-4AB7-B0C8-9A22B30ED006 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii andy@arin.net>
Arturo Servin = <aservin@lacnic.net>
Byron = Ellacott <bje@apnic.net>
Carlos Martinez = <carlos@lacnic.net>
Francisco = Arias <francisco.arias@icann.org>= ;
Francisco Obispo <fobispo@isc.org>
Kaveh Ranjbar = <kranjbar@ripe.net>
Ning= Kong <nkong@cnnic.cn>
Scott = Hollenbeck <shollenbeck@verisign.com><= br>Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org>
and
James M. Galvin <jgalvin@afilias.info>

If you feel strongly about joining this team, please = drop the chairs a mail.


--Olaf = Kolkman (co-chair)



_______________________________________________________ <= /div>
Olaf Kolkman -- NLnet Labs
<= br>






= --Apple-Mail=_6F9976B8-60A3-4AB7-B0C8-9A22B30ED006-- From chris@ausregistry.com.au Thu Aug 2 18:49:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA2511E80AE for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:49:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.336 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.336 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.558, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kFnqEaYnzG9q for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEAF811E80A6 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2012 11:49:07 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:48:50 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: WEIRD WG Chairs , "weirds@ietf.org Group" Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:49:03 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Design team for object selection. Thread-Index: Ac1xGiDnzro0Q2zaRWuPXsDvGZv7nw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CC416AC535416chrisausregistrycomau_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 01:49:13 -0000 --_000_CC416AC535416chrisausregistrycomau_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to be involved in the design team please, I feel that more dom= ain name representation is required (particularly non-ICANN ccTLDs). Thanks Chris From: Olaf Kolkman > Reply-To: WEIRD WG Chairs > Date: Friday, 3 August 2012 11:09 AM To: "weirds@ietf.org Group" > Subject: [weirds] Design team for object selection. Colleagues, During the WG we talked about a design team to take the objects' spreadshee= t and take a stab at selecting a reasonable selection of often used, and th= erefore likely to be part of the core specification objects. For this work the design team is expected to come up with at table of objec= ts that are candidates for the core specification, with a syntax and semant= ic description, if possible based on existing numbers work. The design team that will take a stab at that work is: Andy Newton > Arturo Servin > Byron Ellacott > Carlos Martinez > Francisco Arias > Francisco Obispo > Kaveh Ranjbar > Ning Kong > Scott Hollenbeck = > Steve Sheng > and James M. Galvin > If you feel strongly about joining this team, please drop the chairs a mail= . --Olaf Kolkman (co-chair) _______________________________________________________ Olaf Kolkman -- NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ --_000_CC416AC535416chrisausregistrycomau_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would like to be invol= ved in the design team please, I feel that more domain name representation = is required (particularly non-ICANN ccTLDs).

Thank= s

Chris

From: Olaf Kolkman <olaf@nlnetlabs.nl>
Repl= y-To: WEIRD WG Chairs <weirds-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Date: Friday, 3 August 2012 11:09 AM
To: "weirds@ietf.org<= /a> Group" <weirds@ietf.org>Subject: [weirds] Design team fo= r object selection.

Colleagues,

During the WG we talked about a = design team to take the objects' spreadsheet and take a stab at selecting a= reasonable selection of often used, and therefore likely to be part of the= core specification objects.

For this work the des= ign team is expected to come up with at table of objects that are candidate= s for the core specification, with a syntax and semantic description, if po= ssible based on existing numbers work.


<= div>The design team that will take a stab at that work is:
and
James M. Galvin <jgalvin@afilias.info>

<= div>If you feel strongly about joining this team, please drop the chairs a = mail.


--Olaf Kolkman (co-chair)



___________________________________________= ____________ 
Olaf Kolkman -- NLnet Labs






--_000_CC416AC535416chrisausregistrycomau_-- From fneves@registro.br Thu Aug 2 18:55:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEAA121F84FE for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:55:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.525 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.525 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yrKsK30jSMUR for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22AF21F8510 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 335C9E047D; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 22:55:51 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 22:55:51 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: Chris Wright Message-ID: <20120803015551.GB46269@registro.br> References: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: WEIRD WG Chairs , "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 01:55:52 -0000 Chris, On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 11:49:03AM +1000, Chris Wright wrote: > I would like to be involved in the design team please, I feel that more domain name representation is required (particularly non-ICANN ccTLDs). > AFAIK the design team is tasked to come up with a first draft that will be worked by the WG as whole. This is already a too large design team to be efficient. > Thanks > > Chris Fred > > From: Olaf Kolkman > > Reply-To: WEIRD WG Chairs > > Date: Friday, 3 August 2012 11:09 AM > To: "weirds@ietf.org Group" > > Subject: [weirds] Design team for object selection. > > Colleagues, > > During the WG we talked about a design team to take the objects' spreadsheet and take a stab at selecting a reasonable selection of often used, and therefore likely to be part of the core specification objects. > > For this work the design team is expected to come up with at table of objects that are candidates for the core specification, with a syntax and semantic description, if possible based on existing numbers work. > > > The design team that will take a stab at that work is: > Andy Newton > > Arturo Servin > > Byron Ellacott > > Carlos Martinez > > Francisco Arias > > Francisco Obispo > > Kaveh Ranjbar > > Ning Kong > > Scott Hollenbeck > > Steve Sheng > > and > James M. Galvin > > > If you feel strongly about joining this team, please drop the chairs a mail. > > > --Olaf Kolkman (co-chair) > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Olaf Kolkman -- NLnet Labs > http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From chris@ausregistry.com.au Thu Aug 2 19:20:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30F221F860D for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:20:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.518, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RxHANn+-hSQK for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.ausregistry.net.au (mx01.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CF921F8510 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron01.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2012 12:20:18 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:20:01 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: Frederico A C Neves Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:20:14 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Design team for object selection. Thread-Index: Ac1xHnvruRFG4MCkRWSNMtKyvHVXvg== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20120803015551.GB46269@registro.br> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: WEIRD WG Chairs , "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 02:20:24 -0000 I am fine with that if down the track people won't be upset or offended if some other Registries/Registrars come back to the group with a different proposal than what the design team comes up with? Thanks Chris On 3/08/12 11:55 AM, "Frederico A C Neves" wrote: >Chris, > >On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 11:49:03AM +1000, Chris Wright wrote: >> I would like to be involved in the design team please, I feel that more >>domain name representation is required (particularly non-ICANN ccTLDs). >>=20 > >AFAIK the design team is tasked to come up with a first draft that >will be worked by the WG as whole. This is already a too large design >team to be efficient. > >> Thanks >>=20 >> Chris From sm@resistor.net Thu Aug 2 19:39:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7DBB21F8543 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:39:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.57 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id srlT-O9G4WJs for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393FE21F8532 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sm-THINK.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q732dMYD001342; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:39:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1343961568; bh=VMW9gyAIddM1bI/rRB3l9YsLsWXV5eWR+lLeQd0ImCE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=L6Yhm/YOorQ8yqBz6tedeturTIORrtKNM5vgGVoFuceHfvpkcqocx1xlwnNDX49RK kZh3UWXmoS7XyOzztRhpqtqv7GDp4MGTdZtMKiMGp9P3DH+sEztEIiySaSJzRBv6HV sHrKzIoe7qd4pcXnIfQyXHMfcIIHK5Gm/ariWu/U= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1343961568; i=@resistor.net; bh=VMW9gyAIddM1bI/rRB3l9YsLsWXV5eWR+lLeQd0ImCE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=hbx8Da+vBfJ4K+z5KTWsQZuSM7RyNFdgaUrdaPZOtBivTd2h1ZWx+eUkmIYMNyIpY Szdte5TGi4Vzs610Z0w7MPoI9ZDAb+EaJKd/3GDnV1PqIa4MVbBnqNK2px+qn34zWG vQ6/h/OZZC6LpEJ5gVE4maS/zJNU+d1BPTYwGJlk= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120802193452.098a3b40@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:39:01 -0700 To: Chris Wright From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <20120803015551.GB46269@registro.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 02:39:40 -0000 Hi Chris, At 07:20 PM 8/2/2012, Chris Wright wrote: >I am fine with that if down the track people won't be upset or offended if >some other Registries/Registrars come back to the group with a different >proposal than what the design team comes up with? The output of a design team is always subject to approval, rejection or modification by the WG as a whole. Regards, -sm From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Thu Aug 2 22:45:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFE011E80D5 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 22:45:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.513 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.513 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wx01IWUtmKxs for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 22:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F66311E80B8 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 22:45:14 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:45:05 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'WEIRD WG Chairs'" , References: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> In-Reply-To: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:45:02 +0800 Message-ID: <000a01cd713b$236652d0$6a32f870$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01CD717E.318992D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1xFK9sz96xjLpLQ1WqpgRHIMKbiAAH9jEA Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 05:45:17 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CD717E.318992D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to be a volunteer to join the design team. As doing the Whois data collection and analysis work in Ning's team, I really want to keep participating. Linlin Zhou CNNIC From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Olaf Kolkman Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:09 AM To: weirds@ietf.org Group Subject: [weirds] Design team for object selection. Colleagues, During the WG we talked about a design team to take the objects' spreadsheet and take a stab at selecting a reasonable selection of often used, and therefore likely to be part of the core specification objects. For this work the design team is expected to come up with at table of objects that are candidates for the core specification, with a syntax and semantic description, if possible based on existing numbers work. The design team that will take a stab at that work is: Andy Newton Arturo Servin Byron Ellacott Carlos Martinez Francisco Arias Francisco Obispo Kaveh Ranjbar Ning Kong Scott Hollenbeck Steve Sheng and James M. Galvin If you feel strongly about joining this team, please drop the chairs a mail. --Olaf Kolkman (co-chair) _______________________________________________________ Olaf Kolkman -- NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CD717E.318992D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’d = like to be a volunteer to join the design team. As doing the Whois data = collection and analysis work in Ning’s team, I really want to keep = participating.

 =

Linlin = Zhou

CNNIC<= /o:p>

 =

From:= = weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Olaf Kolkman
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:09 = AM
To: weirds@ietf.org Group
Subject: [weirds] = Design team for object selection.

 

Colleagues,

 

During the WG we talked about a = design team to take the objects' spreadsheet and take a stab at = selecting a reasonable selection of often used, and therefore likely to = be part of the core specification = objects.

 

For this work the design team is = expected to come up with at table of objects that are candidates for the = core specification, with a syntax and semantic description, if possible = based on existing numbers work.

 

 

The design team that will take a = stab at that work is:

Andy Newton <andy@arin.net>
Arturo Servin = <aservin@lacnic.net>
Byron = Ellacott <bje@apnic.net>
Carlos Martinez = <carlos@lacnic.net>
Francisco = Arias <francisco.arias@icann.org&g= t;
Francisco Obispo <fobispo@isc.org>
Kaveh Ranjbar = <kranjbar@ripe.net>
Ning Kong = <nkong@cnnic.cn>
Scott = Hollenbeck <shollenbeck@verisign.com>=
Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org><= /o:p>

and

James M. Galvin <jgalvin@afilias.info>

 

If you feel strongly about joining = this team, please drop the chairs a = mail.

 

 

--Olaf Kolkman = (co-chair)

 

 

 

______= _________________________________________________ =

Olaf = Kolkman -- NLnet Labs

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

=  

=  



 

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CD717E.318992D0-- From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Thu Aug 2 23:47:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BE7E11E809B for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 23:47:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.548 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2my6r3e18YKM for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 23:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nominet.org.uk (mx4.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9008A11E809A for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 23:47:25 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: MIME-Version; b=fltfebrN5LnAXOlZBGOtjBP6rtl0UZkShmyBSBol7F+mdxsLCjjb9nCX F7B0mpw9A/RbAUn8x4MiErFoXeL2Dm6iaDv8T70chKYbq2dF5LP/zKE1M Tq93fsYKEVs3pTi; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1343976446; x=1375512446; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20Design=20team=20for=20object =20selection.|Date:=20Fri,=203=20Aug=202012=2006:47:24=20 +0000|Message-ID:=20<3135D9A8-4BC1-463F-8CD1-29BD6A190F23 @nominet.org.uk>|To:=20WEIRD=20WG=20Chairs=20|CC:=20"weirds@ietf.org=20Group"=20,=20Chris=20Wright=0D=0A=09|MIME-Version:=201.0|In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20; bh=a+Iev4hWBad9OOl2QmYnnu9bSiqZn9p99A1LD7WF9xg=; b=B6fU7aEKasBWiY/LJ0uCn7s3QYvDDd7HsJ6mBDV8Gg8zd/t0Rhem9tXy RtGPI8hXa2P4o84AZuys6wc4m+TYOiDXmtd0giYNTUGRbVyenqpw7Wu+9 zp0VygaaWHWXkYu; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,705,1336345200"; d="scan'208,217";a="34501910" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2012 07:47:24 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 07:47:23 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: WEIRD WG Chairs Thread-Topic: [weirds] Design team for object selection. Thread-Index: AQHNcRSuEDANNSsTwUWAQWab3aW53ZdHQWSAgABTXAA= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:47:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3135D9A8-4BC1-463F-8CD1-29BD6A190F23@nominet.org.uk> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3135D9A84BC1463F8CD129BD6A190F23nominetorguk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 06:47:27 -0000 --_000_3135D9A84BC1463F8CD129BD6A190F23nominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2 Aug 2012, at 18:49, Chris Wright wrote: I feel that more domain name representation is required (particularly non-I= CANN ccTLDs) +1 By my reckoning we have a team of 11 comprising: 5 RIR 2 ICANN gTLDs 2 ICANN staff 1 ccTLD 1 from ISC AIUI, the ICANN gTLDs all share a very similar data model, and the RIR data= objects are already well defined. IMHO a smaller (and hence more efficient, as Fred notes) mix would be: 2 RIR 2 ICANN gTLDs 2 ccTLDs 1 ICANN staff [nothing personal about the ISC guy, I just don't know who he is nor what c= onstituency he's representing] Ray --_000_3135D9A84BC1463F8CD129BD6A190F23nominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0ee38153-ea0f-4d42-828a-f081ecbac129> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2 Aug 2012, at 18:49= , Chris Wright wrote:

I feel that more domain name representation = is required (particularly non-ICANN ccTLDs)

+1

By my reckoning we have a team of 1= 1 comprising:

    5 RIR
 =   2 ICANN gTLDs
    2 ICANN staff
 = ;   1 ccTLD
    1 from ISC

AIUI, the ICANN gTLDs all share a very similar data model, and the RIR da= ta objects are already well defined.

IMHO a smalle= r (and hence more efficient, as Fred notes) mix would be:

    2 RIR
    2 ICANN gTLDs
    2 ccTLDs
    1 ICANN staff
[nothing personal about the ISC guy, I just don't know who he i= s nor what constituency he's representing]

Ray



= --_000_3135D9A84BC1463F8CD129BD6A190F23nominetorguk_-- From Marc.Groeneweg@sidn.nl Thu Aug 2 23:51:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BDEA21E8034 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 23:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id siUthDI47cCO for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 23:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ede1-kamx.sidn.nl (kamx.sidn.nl [94.198.152.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E81711E809A for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 23:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kahubcasn02.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.74]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id q736p95h019601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL); Fri, 3 Aug 2012 08:51:09 +0200 Received: from KAMBX1.SIDN.local ([fe80::501d:affc:30a9:4edf]) by kahubcasn02.SIDN.local ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 08:51:08 +0200 From: Marc Groeneweg To: WEIRD WG Chairs Thread-Topic: [weirds] Design team for object selection. Thread-Index: AQHNcRSuwcjxpO6kA0K4OgOnMyhJ85dHMKGAgABTWwCAACIJEA== Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:51:08 +0000 Message-ID: <5BFD186DCB661E4D951017B0818285AE28E74F02@kambx1.SIDN.local> References: <3135D9A8-4BC1-463F-8CD1-29BD6A190F23@nominet.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <3135D9A8-4BC1-463F-8CD1-29BD6A190F23@nominet.org.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.2.98] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5BFD186DCB661E4D951017B0818285AE28E74F02kambx1SIDNlocal_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 06:51:13 -0000 --_000_5BFD186DCB661E4D951017B0818285AE28E74F02kambx1SIDNlocal_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I second the motion of Ray regarding the mix of the design team. It's small= er (7) and represents in my opinion the parties involved. Regards, Marc Groeneweg SIDN | Meander 501 | 6825 MD | Postbus 5022 | 6802 EA | ARNHEM T +31 (0)26 352 55 66 | M +31 (0)6 15 06 32 09 | F +31 (0)26 352 55 05 marc.groeneweg@sidn.nl | www.sidn.nl From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Ray Bellis Sent: vrijdag 3 augustus 2012 8:47 To: WEIRD WG Chairs Cc: weirds@ietf.org Group Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. On 2 Aug 2012, at 18:49, Chris Wright wrote: I feel that more domain name representation is required (particularly non-I= CANN ccTLDs) +1 By my reckoning we have a team of 11 comprising: 5 RIR 2 ICANN gTLDs 2 ICANN staff 1 ccTLD 1 from ISC AIUI, the ICANN gTLDs all share a very similar data model, and the RIR data= objects are already well defined. IMHO a smaller (and hence more efficient, as Fred notes) mix would be: 2 RIR 2 ICANN gTLDs 2 ccTLDs 1 ICANN staff [nothing personal about the ISC guy, I just don't know who he is nor what c= onstituency he's representing] Ray --_000_5BFD186DCB661E4D951017B0818285AE28E74F02kambx1SIDNlocal_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All,<= /o:p>

 = ;

I second t= he motion of Ray regarding the mix of the design team. It’s smaller (= 7) and represents in my opinion the parties involved.

 = ;

Regards,

Marc Groen= eweg

 <= /p>

SIDN | Meander 501 | 6825 MD | Postbus 5022 | 6802 EA | ARNH= EM
T= +31 (0)26 352 55 66  | M +31 (0)6 15 06 32 09 | F +31 (0)= 26 352 55 05 <= br> m= arc.groeneweg@sidn.nl | www.sidn.nl

 <= /p>

From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.o= rg] On Behalf Of Ray Bellis
Sent: vrijdag 3 augustus 2012 8:47
To: WEIRD WG Chairs
Cc: weirds@ietf.org Group
Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection.

 

 

On 2 Aug 2012, at 18:49, Chris Wright wrote:



I feel that more domain nam= e representation is required (particularly non-ICANN ccTLDs)

 

+1

 

By my reckoning we have a team of 11 comprising:

 

    5 RIR

    2 ICANN gTLDs

    2 ICANN staff

    1 ccTLD

    1 from ISC

 

AIUI, the ICANN gTLDs all share a very similar data = model, and the RIR data objects are already well defined.

 

IMHO a smaller (and hence more efficient, as Fred no= tes) mix would be:

 

    2 RIR

    2 ICANN gTLDs

    2 ccTLDs

    1 ICANN staff

 

[nothing personal about the ISC guy, I just don't kn= ow who he is nor what constituency he's representing]

 

Ray

 

 

 

--_000_5BFD186DCB661E4D951017B0818285AE28E74F02kambx1SIDNlocal_-- From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Fri Aug 3 00:15:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C1221F8BD4 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 00:15:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.84 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.84 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xUSp1mmUcbI4 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 00:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (ow5p.x.rootbsd.net [208.79.81.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7682921F8B87 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 00:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (dhcp-473a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.71.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2689C8A031 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 07:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 03:15:13 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120803071513.GB47780@mail.yitter.info> References: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> <000a01cd713b$236652d0$6a32f870$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000a01cd713b$236652d0$6a32f870$@cn> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 07:15:18 -0000 Dear colleagues, On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 01:45:02PM +0800, Linlin Zhou wrote: > I'd like to be a volunteer to join the design team. As doing the Whois data > collection and analysis work in Ning's team, I really want to keep > participating. Linlin Zhou is the second person who asked to be directly involved. I'd encourage people to participate by letting the design team come up with a proposal. The whole point of a design team is that it's a small number of people; not everyone can participate, or we might as well do the work in the WG as a whole. I understand the desire to get in there and help, but there's such a thing as too many cooks in the kitchen. As it stands, in my opinion the design team is already rather large. I'd really like to encourage people to stand back and wait. Sometimes that's the best way to contribute. Best, Andrew "standing and waiting" Sullivan -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Fri Aug 3 08:22:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CADA21F8DEC for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 08:22:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vzYdk4WflSYW for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 08:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6414521F8DEA for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 08:22:37 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 23:22:33 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Andrew Sullivan'" , References: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> <000a01cd713b$236652d0$6a32f870$@cn> <20120803071513.GB47780@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120803071513.GB47780@mail.yitter.info> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 23:22:29 +0800 Message-ID: <005701cd718b$ce576800$6b063800$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1xR8GzEmzUdYwpS7WBbYPgwTdwHgAQd/hw Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:22:39 -0000 It's OK. I just hope my previous work may help :) Let the chairs and working group decide. Linlin Zhou CNNIC > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Andrew Sullivan > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 3:15 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. > > Dear colleagues, > > On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 01:45:02PM +0800, Linlin Zhou wrote: > > I'd like to be a volunteer to join the design team. As doing the Whois > > data collection and analysis work in Ning's team, I really want to > > keep participating. > > Linlin Zhou is the second person who asked to be directly involved. > > I'd encourage people to participate by letting the design team come up with a > proposal. The whole point of a design team is that it's a small number of > people; not everyone can participate, or we might as well do the work in the > WG as a whole. I understand the desire to get in there and help, but there's > such a thing as too many cooks in the kitchen. > > As it stands, in my opinion the design team is already rather large. > I'd really like to encourage people to stand back and wait. Sometimes that's > the best way to contribute. > > Best, > > Andrew "standing and waiting" Sullivan > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@anvilwalrusden.com > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Fri Aug 3 10:08:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37DF821F8DD6 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 10:08:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.071, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DCr1CmQkcLkM for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D2021F8DCC for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 10:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dhcp-457a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.69.122]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q73H8cqZ017052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 19:08:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 open.nlnetlabs.nl q73H8cqZ017052 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1344013729; bh=JqDqZ8+ubA2XcFSqP786hPODmAdwcJlXQhlXe0F0/yI=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To; b=q+Pv2SEPTnv3Xa+7HYaKxdhtJGyzvEIx3lPka/d2leIU2JBT8LO1sZ38Ud3Ck01hT EjlWfujCBw9obPc9shO/7nZfeimTtz4HGdmFwfenlXjFVhZ6SOxcZdzOyVULXCLJU/ wo/NTs2T+EFA3n/OlDv+kbC3pKPZ1b11Byy0SiJY= From: Olaf Kolkman Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_74CFA0D1-C862-419F-88F0-D59D1A472B76" Message-Id: <79B3AF29-E24D-4F68-8ED6-C629657305C9@NLnetLabs.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1485\)) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 10:08:39 -0700 References: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> To: "weirds@ietf.org Group" In-Reply-To: <0A06B6D6-F9FA-4AFE-B58D-97EBE42F2770@NLnetLabs.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1485) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [213.154.224.1]); Fri, 03 Aug 2012 19:08:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [weirds] Design team for object selection. X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 17:08:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_74CFA0D1-C862-419F-88F0-D59D1A472B76 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii FWIW, Murray and myself are discussing this. We already felt the team was a = bit large (albeit workable).=20 We will review the membership once more and make our decision. After = that the team goes off to make a selection based on the available data = presented by Ning and looking at what is out there in the numbers = implementation (keeping that alligned as much as possible). The result = will be a proposal on which the WG will decide. No work by the design = team is final, although we hope it'll all make sense. --Olaf PS. I will be off-list for most of August and may not respond to any WG = activity. Murray knows how to reach me. NLnet Labs Olaf M. Kolkman www.NLnetLabs.nl olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Science Park 400, 1098 XH Amsterdam, The Netherlands --Apple-Mail=_74CFA0D1-C862-419F-88F0-D59D1A472B76 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


FWIW,

Murray and myself are discussing this. We already felt the team = was a bit large (albeit workable). 

We will review the membership once more and make our decision. =  After that the team goes off to make a selection based on the = available data presented by Ning and looking at what is out there in the = numbers implementation (keeping that alligned as much as possible). The = result will be a proposal on which the WG will decide. No work by the = design team is final, although we hope it'll all make = sense.



--Olaf


PS. I will be off-list for most of August and may not respond to = any WG activity. Murray knows how to reach me.



Olaf M. Kolkman


Science Park 400, 1098 XH Amsterdam, The = Netherlands



= --Apple-Mail=_74CFA0D1-C862-419F-88F0-D59D1A472B76-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Fri Aug 3 10:13:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68E2C21F8E0D for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 10:13:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nUc5oVm3UU2S for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 10:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og103.obsmtp.com (exprod6og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.185]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904F721F8DEB for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 10:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob103.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUBwGtoUF330PPYiCi0FErUhpjnnAyaNp@postini.com; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 10:13:28 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q73HDN2A029997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:13:26 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:13:23 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working Group Documents Thread-Index: Ac1xm0ev0Nc3VMnKQDOhZS9nUW7HfA== Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 17:13:23 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-cr-puzzleid: {BB400221-F49A-4D4F-BFF7-2634B9EEED9C} x-cr-hashedpuzzle: AGDE A4Yu CVVv C116 DKBA GLTY Gq2V HEFm HScx IGwg I6G7 I7fV JDL3 JeMs Jtin LTWL; 1; dwBlAGkAcgBkAHMAQABpAGUAdABmAC4AbwByAGcA; Sosha1_v1; 7; {BB400221-F49A-4D4F-BFF7-2634B9EEED9C}; cwBoAG8AbABsAGUAbgBiAGUAYwBrAEAAdgBlAHIAaQBzAGkAZwBuAC4AYwBvAG0A; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 17:13:20 GMT;VwBvAHIAawBpAG4AZwAgAEcAcgBvAHUAcAAgAEQAbwBjAHUAbQBlAG4AdABzAA== x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 17:13:29 -0000 I'm still a little confused about the approach we're taking with respect to= write our working group documents. During the meeting on Wednesday we saw = a slide that described an approach, but we didn't talk about specifics in t= he context of the current set of individual submission drafts. Can someone = describe the document proposal in a bit more detail? Scott From superuser@gmail.com Sat Aug 4 23:45:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9990021F86B9 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 23:45:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.658 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.059, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tTtmi2cMHdSd for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 23:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DADA21F8648 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 23:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lahm15 with SMTP id m15so1085505lah.31 for ; Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:45:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7EzyYG7gihXQE6ltWfCGStgBZAAfJBFViIs4dHOOdS8=; b=IZGDVqviTlkrJohuWQhTVaGeroF0JqidqxktOTVNztdW2Auc2SgQ6KaiAUf30lV1q1 j1Y8EMgDwd9Czc4t1BnnLRXdfj/s4LJTl6umc58ntxYdYgL5y+00gHnPihM7JrYRsB60 tGE1hu8PJcIzc8vI6Emmf040gXUaIJQ9P2U/Ujyu1x6pah745Pggz0U/3QPQUXThJM/r PYeIpy6RNyq4rmY5Gz8PYPEex5VtanlEijBdXSXHHJ5rIFBzmUq1/vqD6J2e5JkMcWe/ HlO2abXikP90h9PZgcGxwGHHxRp3CpVRXrSgFgulC8jb6Rnpc4/yZGI1a+jJfwNyDQ3k X3pg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.104.171 with SMTP id gf11mr6753295lab.5.1344149127411; Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.89.3 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 23:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 23:45:27 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: weirds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [weirds] Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 06:45:29 -0000 Thank you to Andrew Sullivan for taking excellent minutes from our inaugural meeting in Vancouver this past week. Those minutes are here for review, and I've uploaded them to the meeting materials page. Please advise of any corrections. -MSK -- Minutes of the WEIRDS WG 2012-08-01 09:00 PDT Regency F Hyatt Vancouver, BC Relevant materials: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/agenda/agenda-84-weirds http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-0.pdf http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-1.pdf http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-2.pdf http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-3.pdf http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-4.pdf The Chairs opened the meeting, and drew to the attention of participants details about the IETF IPR policy ("Note Well"), and arranged administrative details, then turned to be business of the meeting. The Chairs outlined their vision for document organization. There was discussion of the Chairs' prioritization. The Chairs raised the question of what "MUST support" in this context. There was considerable discussion about the topic, but the Chairs clarified that they were talking about the mindset for development rather than particular language in the document. ACTION: Chris Wright volunteered to make another pass at capturing principles for development, rewriting text on Supporting Objects. The meeting turned to the topic of service differentiation. Sean (Shuo) Shen gave a presentation. There was discussion about whether some of the problems were in fact protocol issues, or just implementation issues. There was discussion about authentication and methods for that. AD asked from Chairs what they thought they heard. Response was that room wants to do some sort of authentication for service differentiation, but still seems to be required. Also, heard "KISS" and based on existing experience. The WG then moved to versioning and extensions. Andy Newton made a presentation. There was discussion about prefixes and registries. No clear decision was made. ACTION: take determination of IANA registry to mailing list The WG moved to the topic of URI templates. Murray Kucherawy moved to the floor and made a presentation. There were arguments to the effect that they are not necessary & too complex. The Chairs noted the resistance. The WG moved to the Object Inventory. Ning Kong made a presentation. The Chairs noted that the point of the work is input to a design team that will pick common base objects to standardize. There was some discussion about the semantics of the output (and difference with presentation). ACTION: Chairs to determine design team. The design team will start with existing work from the numbers community. The Chairs moved on from organizational topics on the grounds that actions were covered in the individual topics. The meeting move to the bootstrap question; John Levine gave a presentation. There was considerable disagreement about whether any of the options are acceptable, and additional objection about whether the bootstrap issue is in scope. The Chairs were unable to draw a conclusion about whether the topic is in scope. The question of an interim meeting was raised. There was not a strong request, so the determination was, "No." The Chairs directed further discussion to the mailing list, and closed the meeting at 11:35 PDT. From superuser@gmail.com Sun Aug 5 13:41:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EAB21F84A1 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:41:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.657 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.657 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tqFtAE0zJQgk for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B6121F854A for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lahm15 with SMTP id m15so1266414lah.31 for ; Sun, 05 Aug 2012 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8my9iVPtNABh5wQBxnVkVVOEtYUcSlsCkeg1U0xx1B8=; b=FzGfiLm1IPUlWk4dcdwSONVf/SmyIVa5WviFCAEiOfAvIrRMi53oiHiDwMtaaJ0uFl IJlk9VR9T6PKoCgneK8ZwhqjuMaJpkRr9FMJrGzZJgrSxQbNJzN2MLrcOrGLKKO1Br4B 6wrdkRSMSr+UTUCsNq3ttNz80ZaJVOWywEWw00o0HEgHpJzQBiL6EBayum8y9epcbSPV IkoUmFU4Io50gh1zs5cd5FhooK1AXRCVsKGdrF0zEF8QOE1VbmaQCg4SZEooH+8y5vKA M2p35JLU/lDf9lFIJRMJk6YHoYK4BDIjwI5Sd+37pZVtsFMx2xQ+56wdz/1BgB3FveYK DcNg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.124.180 with SMTP id mj20mr8404598lab.43.1344199252360; Sun, 05 Aug 2012 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.89.3 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:40:52 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:41:04 -0000 On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > I'm still a little confused about the approach we're taking with respect = to write our working group documents. During the meeting on Wednesday we sa= w a slide that described an approach, but we didn't talk about specifics in= the context of the current set of individual submission drafts. Can someon= e describe the document proposal in a bit more detail? In Vancouver, the co-chairs presented a proposed path forward that included documents that describe framework, transport (including authentication), query and reply specifications with an aim toward a convergence as far up the stack as possible, splitting only when needed toward the "end" where the two major constituents diverge in their data. This appeared to be acceptable to the room, inasmuch as a few people said so and nobody said otherwise. I believe this means the current documents marked "Call For Adoption" are, in general, inputs to that idea but may or may not be directly usable toward those goals. My view is that the design team(s) we dispatch will use the presentations in Vancouver and these drafts as input to the proposals they will bring back to the working group, with the "unified stack" notion as a guideline. The team(s) can determine which documents, if any, are suitable bases going forward, or if from-scratch documents would be better starting points. However, I'm also open to suggestions from the working group. -MSK From superuser@gmail.com Sun Aug 5 19:40:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DCB821F85BB for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:40:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9icDJiA4CMg8 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com (mail-lb0-f172.google.com [209.85.217.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C429321F85AC for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbgg6 with SMTP id gg6so160980lbb.31 for ; Sun, 05 Aug 2012 19:40:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=8XYnFY4HPY25gpcmX057h7gWgfiIPVarXltXeb8kLCI=; b=l6MQLMvfruHc0CrE+r9EdV8LNjuSAubhcvP48lNM4PKuKPebx3vCS11MD8kvfpksS7 EFnZ5cpyAsGFeBpru8OGp5LABZnXmFfUxJaJ13rLwP5sS/qjLJICcISgIJB4zs1npqev t6SrkhP+jcpyOj9oJsjhwImxQjAXsgE8Zfb/KBhJ4Xu47FPcHmlTuKejsb28CzNQ3nwZ hdkBfPNEsiy24dSIh+9nV6feukHxMJDArb77gRxbOEwr31l/CrniTMOykBlFAFY1GWBW OSg0MECkICQN7l8RX12fMsfbeXbLYdIJfCBSlCXh+N0MikB/SQoqiCbwNT8m9WWv06md pUng== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.49.100 with SMTP id t4mr3899257lbn.10.1344220800184; Sun, 05 Aug 2012 19:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.89.3 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:40:00 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: weirds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Mark Nottingham Subject: [weirds] URI templates and WEIRDS X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 02:40:07 -0000 Colleagues, Speaking as a participant: As noted in the minutes, I presented in Vancouver on the notion of using URI templates. The consensus in the room was, as I recall, that this is "an elegant solution to a problem we don't have." I'm not trying to force this on the working group, but for the sake of more detail, I'd like to cover this briefly in a weirds thread. The same debate is already occurring or will occur elsewhere, so I think it would be helpful to have it on the record (we've only dealt with it verbally so far) so that others can refer to it as well. For example, the same issue is still open in the REPUTE working group, but that group is fairly quiet lately so I think it's more useful to discuss it here. In summary, I proposed the use of URI templates (RFC6570) via a well-known URI at the weirds server as a means of instructing a weirds client how to form a query URI. The advantages to this are: 1) If, in the end, name and number queries differ in important ways, a client wouldn't need to know which one it was about to address a priori; rather, the server tells it how it wants the query URI to be constructed. 2) If at some point a server undergoes a change in architecture and wants the query to be formatted differently, it only needs to alter the template rather than being forced to accommodate a standard. The client then adjusts immediately and automatically. 3) Consensus among web architecture experts (one of whom is Cc'd here and hopefully will comment) is that reserving part of the URI namespace in a standard is bad practice. As I heard it stated, "servers own URI syntax, not standards." 4) Existing implementations don't need to change, other than to declare a template for the syntax they're already using. We would simply need to standardize the template tokens and what values they should have. As I recall the resistance points: a) This is unneeded complexity. Further, pushing complexities of a protocol into clients is a bad idea. b) We already have mod_rewrite (or equivalent), why not use it? c) Clients already need to know something about the server they're going to hit, so URI syntax could be included in that knowledge. Please say so if there are other points I've missed on either list. I can say that I implemented a first REPUTE system using URI templates and the implementation wasn't terribly difficult. The C library I used is now open source, and numerous other implementations also exist in a variety of languages. Much of that code could easily be recycled into weirds clients, removing much of the implementation complexity. Thanks for indulging me on this. I think this is an important thing to resolve openly so that other groups can benefit from the discussion. -MSK From bje@apnic.net Mon Aug 6 00:56:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54ADC21F8501 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:56:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id smykFcfsjZtW for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp.apnic.net (asmtp.apnic.net [IPv6:2001:dc0:2001:11::199]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CACED21F85BB for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 00:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:dc0:a000:4:8dc8:8c12:133c:2b51] (unknown [IPv6:2001:dc0:a000:4:8dc8:8c12:133c:2b51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by asmtp.apnic.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B4CB67EA; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:56:43 +1000 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E519ABDA-BA2D-4BAE-A7E7-6CCC363B69FB"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Byron Ellacott In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 17:56:43 +1000 Message-Id: References: To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: Mark Nottingham , weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] URI templates and WEIRDS X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 07:56:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E519ABDA-BA2D-4BAE-A7E7-6CCC363B69FB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Murray-as-participant, On 06/08/2012, at 12:40 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Please say so if there are other points I've missed on either list. d) It's twice the number of HTTP requests for a simple lookup. e) Clients might just bypass it anyway; in the numbers space, whatever = URI structure ARIN uses has a high likelihood of being hard coded into = many clients so they can skip the never changing step of fetching a URI = template to do exactly the same transform every time. This might happen = for .com's URI structure, particularly if there's a reference server = that a number of common TLDs all operate. f) They complicate redirection - if we use an HTTP redirection code, a = client would fetch the URI templates list, create the URI for the = resource they want, issue a query, and get back (after redirection) = another URI templates list. Or the redirecting server is forced to act = as a proxy, introducing a whole new class of error conditions and = apparent quality of service based on a third party operator. I don't think I raised these at the mic, though. > I can say that I implemented a first REPUTE system using URI templates > and the implementation wasn't terribly difficult. The C library I > used is now open source, and numerous other implementations also exist > in a variety of languages. Much of that code could easily be recycled > into weirds clients, removing much of the implementation complexity. It's not hard, by any stretch of the imagination, but it is double the = work for the client: --- with URI templates, you start here --- 1. Fetch the URI template resource 2. Parse the URI template resource 3. Select the appropriate template, and parse that --- without URI templates, you start here --- 4. Fetch the data resource 5. Parse the data resource 6. Do something useful with the data resource While the parsing of the template is presumably to be done by a library, = this is still a lot of boilerplate to stitch container parsing, template = selection, and library call together, given how trivial the rest of the = client would be. I spoke at the microphone about URI templates solving a problem we don't = really have. By that, I mean we don't have a mapping problem, or a = (client-server) configuration problem, and we don't have such a complex = discovery problem that we need this solution for it. I find the = arguments in favour of URI templates to be non-compelling: 1) If names and numbers diverge, a client is going to need to know how = to handle two different responses. You cannot gloss over differences = with a template for the query string. 2) A server's architectural change is bound to the same number of moving = parts in its URI space as before, to accommodate the standard's = description of what variables might be found in a template. What = changes do you think could meaningfully be made to the noise around = "example.com" that wouldn't just be deck chair rearrangements? Isn't = best current web software architecture practice to loosely couple URLs = to service modules? 3) All other behaviour once inside the protocol URI space is dictated by = the standard. I could say "servers own response data formats, not = standards" but it would be equally meaningless. The protocol owns the = conversation between clients and servers, and both how to ask and how to = respond are part of the protocol. 4) There are no existing implementations of this as yet unspecified = protocol. Existing port 80 rest-like registration data directory = services do not return results in a compliant format, and may not = provide query entry points for the same aggregate roots; the URL = structure is the least of the impacts on similar existing services. I am not, I admit, a web architecture expert, but to my layperson's eyes = the listed benefits to servers seem nebulous and more about technical = purity than technical benefit, while the costs to clients are real, and = relatively large. Byron --Apple-Mail=_E519ABDA-BA2D-4BAE-A7E7-6CCC363B69FB Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIEBjCCBAIw ggLqoAMCAQICCCoPITf60ZNDMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIw EAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwxFjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNi YW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQBGRYCY2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMB4XDTExMTEyODAxNTEzNloXDTEy MTEyNzAxNTEzNlowgZIxGTAXBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEBDAliamUtc3RhZmYxEjAQBgNVBAMMCWJqZS1z dGFmZjEOMAwGA1UEKgwFQnlyb24xETAPBgNVBAQMCEVsbGFjb3R0MQ8wDQYDVQQLDAZQZW9wbGUx FjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxFTATBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEZFgVzdGFmZjCCASIwDQYJKoZI hvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBANVQo/BOmY5CCWNeAldlgoWZKOzIZpOsFzD6NB2oAErtclDu uiZsXfl+L97UOwUlhu1eGlY5gKuAhGcrEBvDgTT1eEr3vkdKILhJw78s5n8eLOWrmhPKBnW8gSn9 7MbAxVQx3V1/RpToKAF8cR4il03Z7mveaBQbaivM2jReHcgfJPt9w0qhTVZO2POLuVClRcExaNt1 h+QdMLa6VU5x7rJo9JFqjTAvJzMApW+WY/7oumR9+4a9ZGThlETI2b83XAMrrJ7DHm237Jskgl+X FGILIq8zOhNiAbhEg+gAyJ8bOzwwydDY+ggWQ466duZZq4wxmr1+YhxVf51v2R5MSicCAwEAAaN6 MHgwHQYDVR0OBBYEFIQXSivz3cLpaFy23DdhpGhyyo5pMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwHwYDVR0jBBgw FoAU4D23klvuLqOyPnnbRaswQi8BS6wwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgHyMBgGA1UdEQQRMA+BDWJqZUBh cG5pYy5uZXQwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAEk9zi8BTUEY4rqDGEIFDNIpmX/yS3fTah39Mele pV93sRsjqLy2G47vhhnkgSTEWV2jJOD7tjzjswxtWUL6KG36dUDVL3XbQ1OObxkiDJbqje4BoWrd a8/5PoIPC0hkSDXGoitvoXkL8Pd9x9Y+kyMlKo1C0lk5bCUG4yjk5wVLuSSm5m+KZ3+YVdPp6dKp C0DRhvFdsrz2zIOT/sWheCQO0HRU300UYngB/xoqc1KWH2dROIUhLqwtyoCQbQKQjW9C+JMMw2Ij vfVXJZGMWjbp5l8RQeUSJ+0vVJXJbIL6PfEsyQupUV3AJsSTRmtllqzCBCz2Abd14xyeqw0eJfwx ggMtMIIDKQIBATB/MHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIwEAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwxFjAU BgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNiYW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQBGRYC Y2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVAggqDyE3+tGTQzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBgzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xMjA4MDYwNzU2NDNaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBQA kZhr5mLMpkZCHm+ASTPTaUK7kzCBjwYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGBMH8wczERMA8GA1UEAwwIc3RhZmYt Y2ExEjAQBgNVBAsMCVRlY2huaWNhbDEWMBQGA1UECgwNQVBOSUMgUHR5IEx0ZDERMA8GA1UEBwwI QnJpc2JhbmUxEjAQBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEZFgJjYTELMAkGA1UEBhMCQVUCCCoPITf60ZNDMIGRBgsq hkiG9w0BCRACCzGBgaB/MHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIwEAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwx FjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNiYW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQB GRYCY2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVAggqDyE3+tGTQzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQB2hJUqlPTSPvct xd1Jhu4iIyueeHtWdrnimyb9IqsnTC3TqCiJ5+YWId5M1Y7YP5d1f/qA5EqydwFYMiuIJ2/bUdyf ojsuvLM+E4vAAHxRTktiekrdayB3H0RjHLJiAdWt3HilHp7ieX7uHdKlBgElgL6c5AyvEyfsp+Ji 7ZLXRGVmMVM0sk7qzcEnYD+rNguW3VQfTNXeyonKFcjs2En7cC+nHVhG7sFNmgCAxqdwE/sTphMd wmVko/iXr/YIPvNDS6vqL44GqDgFJnHKCDsX1LAt0dPKazIsa8QTbOtErJTh+7jH+wQoCJQx2FpO zYtXJDp+FtgiQHz/ItZrhpuFAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_E519ABDA-BA2D-4BAE-A7E7-6CCC363B69FB-- From andy@arin.net Mon Aug 6 03:02:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A349121F8622 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 03:02:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x8h3vyX2OBOl for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 03:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26E521F8627 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 03:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id DB3DB1650A2; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D975165098; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:02:35 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.124]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 06:02:39 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Thread-Topic: [weirds] URI templates and WEIRDS Thread-Index: AQHNc3zXeVjwvLFVOEGNSOTXei1gS5dM0U2A Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:02:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <036510E573316341BE806FFB0147457B@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Mark Nottingham , "" Subject: Re: [weirds] URI templates and WEIRDS X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 10:02:45 -0000 I think Byron covered a lot of points and I agree with them all. I just want to add one more counter to one of your assertions. On Aug 5, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > 1) If, in the end, name and number queries differ in important ways, a > client wouldn't need to know which one it was about to address a > priori; rather, the server tells it how it wants the query URI to be > constructed. Today, generic Whois clients do make a distinction between IP addresses, AS= numbers, and domain names. I'd see no reason why they would not do this in= the future. Specific built clients would likely not be as full-blown and just as likely= to hardcode URI variables as they would use a good-enough redirect server.= Knowing what I know about queries that are thrown at our server, a lot of = people wouldn't do anything much more complicated that wget URL | jsawk. -andy= From sm@resistor.net Mon Aug 6 03:06:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0BA21F8629 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 03:06:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.569 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id guOG7EqvRhdM for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 03:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61D021F8627 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 03:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q76A6Qfq016886; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 03:06:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1344247591; bh=yZgW/9L5jleZvuYZ1/SUt7iguwNJncNLzC7Hu9A2pXk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=dF4jld6WqCidnSpXNqUbHAFAXBxSTawQa4VAo/RvO3aq9I4msNyr0JegRlN8cS3YX qjmp7VPbrr+F6CcKFl2wMYYa3a+fOUGZo9ts35XFg3CP+YIYtrN0j2bw8I5xy9oHS/ VjFskp4fFJ4OduQ1fUvfSFYbVetwvdt4apDv2uiM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1344247591; i=@resistor.net; bh=yZgW/9L5jleZvuYZ1/SUt7iguwNJncNLzC7Hu9A2pXk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Lum1hto33B380MeVrerS8TMujjYBZMqJwG1WgRe0KVmcgH57i6SFq5W9fhyaQLRMT 6VlKjKz8EK2+teJECr8ZzUiN+mxaokA4pG7LFdYWoiBULNCLYUYTqpxGmFror1KOId z02aauqBnma3ilOvGt7MHC2jhvfTyITM5zY8skX0= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806023354.09244038@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 03:02:50 -0700 To: Byron Ellacott From: SM In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] URI templates and WEIRDS X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 10:06:41 -0000 At 00:56 06-08-2012, Byron Ellacott wrote: >d) It's twice the number of HTTP requests for a simple lookup. I don't see any compelling reason to double the number of HTTP requests. >e) Clients might just bypass it anyway; in the numbers space, >whatever URI structure ARIN uses has a high likelihood of being hard >coded into many clients so they can skip the never changing step of >fetching a URI template to do exactly the same transform every >time. This might happen for .com's URI structure, particularly if >there's a reference server that a number of common TLDs all operate. Yes. Regards, -sm From sm@resistor.net Mon Aug 6 09:49:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146DA21E804C for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:49:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.57 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CnAVIkE7U4nD for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81B421E8044 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q76GnJXT011379 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:49:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1344271764; bh=tnpJbpoTjlY6I39PC4/4/rndnyUN3O9PO486LlucyAk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=x4vfyMmtPCcfYBsYJISubuINF79/xTtI3yzOv7g7g9imZJrmzoGgHS71PEwzAyewS jGlRB6vhSqLBE44MGnPRg6aYK7lo4EbtL4OQLi+azF0zPuWEWVke16NCf6c0FRztba iYbPJXh4UyYOOUXKmSK8yetEYJ4qY8LhCMTbL7lg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1344271764; i=@resistor.net; bh=tnpJbpoTjlY6I39PC4/4/rndnyUN3O9PO486LlucyAk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=4Tn6MeqGfO5Vp+0CuxIrbuEkgzf5elxNj2YyUCG9lrQ5Zsp54y/fJelqI1oXlTiql L4zMJXsTKVu7NqaHUgOp6X1ts1kQW6GJRHjfbdrDrj4N1QJcnGYSryw2XSQFw2TuiS uPQG9CjvKXKfOklKfk5sGaLi7D461G5lEqt6GHS8= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806090238.089b0be8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:14:00 -0700 To: weirds@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [weirds] Bootstrapping (was: Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:49:30 -0000 At 23:45 04-08-2012, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >The Chairs moved on from organizational topics on the grounds that >actions were covered in the individual topics. The meeting move to >the bootstrap question; John Levine gave a presentation. There was >considerable disagreement about whether any of the options are >acceptable, and additional objection about whether the bootstrap issue >is in scope. The Chairs were unable to draw a conclusion about >whether the topic is in scope. Was the additional objection about scope for names or for numbers? Regards, -sm From aservin@lacnic.net Mon Aug 6 10:02:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F257021F8503 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R4suhE10zniv for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690AA21F84B9 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 85-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.85.140]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2440308432; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:01:52 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806090238.089b0be8@resistor.net> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:01:51 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806090238.089b0be8@resistor.net> To: SM X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Bootstrapping (was: Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:02:03 -0000 I guess that bootstraping is not in the charter now and not = finding something useful and the WG preferred to work on the basic = operational problems and try bootstrap later. Regards, as On 6 Aug 2012, at 13:14, SM wrote: > At 23:45 04-08-2012, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >> The Chairs moved on from organizational topics on the grounds that >> actions were covered in the individual topics. The meeting move to >> the bootstrap question; John Levine gave a presentation. There was >> considerable disagreement about whether any of the options are >> acceptable, and additional objection about whether the bootstrap = issue >> is in scope. The Chairs were unable to draw a conclusion about >> whether the topic is in scope. >=20 > Was the additional objection about scope for names or for numbers? >=20 > Regards, > -sm=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From superuser@gmail.com Mon Aug 6 11:01:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2728B21F85D8 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DRl2p-Q-1UNj for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com (mail-lb0-f172.google.com [209.85.217.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFC711E80AD for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbgg6 with SMTP id gg6so612448lbb.31 for ; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:01:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=yuPDIfGzR6eTdb8+uv3EKMvlXOBzudjJt4xJ7j8ERxI=; b=Z9gzle9vqdvxwFLGUCQB8wcOn2LaKj2hP3dLiRUESap2bBCICDK9WPFqXK5U/uj8pl +dQl2PL7LLYJse5uFZGWpz/K3qPJbaY5/Y+qCkIjgGzZxzf8UJEUjwVhfxhTlWH5597P cU0PfL1ZAKTLiZ+yd6ywtuCgkRLyDjdRVBJF/imOkRVAGBbeRwTuKx9h8RqwstvpxGIP cU2XF7vZhjSlWRNcNL3FBGVfyzT8JCr67BQ/flr5s0YZEJw/svXJhkaS9MwslAgDyhtM zOLOpHd9UcQ0DZA2laZEqH2OUa2xbd9mSbV5Ys09b5WoL/glv54vCjAlVTKZEYYDYOG6 zy4w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.49.100 with SMTP id t4mr4969151lbn.10.1344276103273; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.89.3 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806023354.09244038@resistor.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806023354.09244038@resistor.net> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:43 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: SM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] URI templates and WEIRDS X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:01:45 -0000 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 3:02 AM, SM wrote: > At 00:56 06-08-2012, Byron Ellacott wrote: >> >> d) It's twice the number of HTTP requests for a simple lookup. > > I don't see any compelling reason to double the number of HTTP requests. There's an HTTP header field that tells the client how long to remember a result. This applies to the template as well, so only the first query to a given server has the double round-trip. -MSK From sm@resistor.net Mon Aug 6 11:01:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04A811E80D2 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.57 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MwDeMCFe3beo for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 637E811E80CC for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q76I1lhE001251; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:01:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1344276112; bh=MvTHqDA3y5pqtKIisz4VKl1HXSozv1cwq94UDOS1mAc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=b7cZa3NCdquBj2uVWqGB+i8CB0zcUzvIzlKG6/dnMOs2SUXp89TtuZykZo2lxiUpN EVUADpxTXe2tmvwUtR85LSkWMjO7wj8Wl7YGz1+Gkkb4XQ4Qgcuyc6zTC7/keRtvCr VUUU/o35I+axNPU3YGVZzL1g7j+OJNhW6PBPz/v4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1344276112; i=@resistor.net; bh=MvTHqDA3y5pqtKIisz4VKl1HXSozv1cwq94UDOS1mAc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=FmDIWJw2LVVJ5PgDGs88t6Q4YkGyliq7kszWP7yQZMJytwXkzS9pt4YXm+fcGCJm7 1PYy8TDhqqLaMvnxFHmG9Ye2VAIq90uLm8yuadXwydn1jtxC2KhSo6J5XMLGJh/Ix7 ANry1jyw46RiJacKhectPqyWsh40QcPi0MQUpuK0= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806102926.08680268@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:01:37 -0700 To: Arturo Servin From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806090238.089b0be8@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Bootstrapping (was: Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:01:58 -0000 Hi Arturo, At 10:01 06-08-2012, Arturo Servin wrote: > I guess that bootstraping is not in the charter now and not > finding something useful and the WG preferred to work on the basic > operational problems and try bootstrap later. If bootstraping is not in the charter now it means that the WG will have to recharter to work on that. This may take at least two years assuming that the WG survives that long. Regards, -sm From sm@resistor.net Mon Aug 6 13:36:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B62F711E80DE for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 13:36:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.57 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BwkjaqfBJiHo for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 13:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55ECE11E80A6 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 13:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q76KaGNY005405; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 13:36:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1344285385; bh=14w35lj4zPg0xklyi4i98oHTHTydAhQA0GCZgGBUwl0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=JJyurhFZXy2cSN8aYla6Uc7Vo9hm4GcHhN0UrZkq4+w2IDYvKZ+iwUaSMJ9N8a9ct EUjqcNtACcDFlbEiY41m+7CDWOcRpSAiICvTFdv0+i6zbigtlPf1eFiSusY4nyHRSY 4M8De4dluA0TS+JRtyhWe3YxfndjNu57ET3eP4kY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1344285385; i=@resistor.net; bh=14w35lj4zPg0xklyi4i98oHTHTydAhQA0GCZgGBUwl0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=yob8msqTbd8FzKyvWUMF6Yb8RucCN8nTBReOpyjZFbLMMye21g5McedDaqjl/Ebvh oAXVEx8+hLGGnr8Cxv0ltJfjb6SO2+WV8Qiy1ORLiIKfDGX/jLHdgsh3f+tjjWgvsV XqYpEQsedB+nGJWDUQQwJTmh0UIA1tLu1yeCFg5Y= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806112225.08592068@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:28:01 -0700 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120806023354.09244038@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] URI templates and WEIRDS X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 20:36:35 -0000 Hi Murray, At 11:01 06-08-2012, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >There's an HTTP header field that tells the client how long to >remember a result. This applies to the template as well, so only the >first query to a given server has the double round-trip. Yes. I thought of the caching aspect when I posted the comment. I would not implement that in the client as it is more code. To be fair, the double round-trip is not as bad as it sounds as we talking about Whois instead of content where you cannot afford the expense of that double round-trip. Regards, -sm From johnl@iecc.com Mon Aug 6 18:40:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7211F21F84F8 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 18:40:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -111.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-111.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id do5+0c8Oc4Qx for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 18:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52A421F84FE for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2012 18:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 54045 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2012 01:40:44 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 7 Aug 2012 01:40:44 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=5020721c.xn--btvx9d.k1208; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=IrScTfc7Hbpn6yFYt1Fj7wpy+mJ8yGIqbFGvp1jhqiY=; b=SBFgL4uo/x8/yI+ldYBerEj4T4tQeJaLVTmjPzVSYdXJFd/R4LT1uEzh41JVmjo1NF+lKDRh/gWq6+yzfAzhiG01pH2T42ufu25moG9MGoIsqjnsqtH1TYJw5aGGD4J72brBxUXfiwbRX8+5qDOiWwaTRVX6BIxBhZplSYhCXAg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=5020721c.xn--btvx9d.k1208; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=IrScTfc7Hbpn6yFYt1Fj7wpy+mJ8yGIqbFGvp1jhqiY=; b=uTkL5jrvTIEMFrdaSICzm837IWYoL5Yjp7EO/u9djXVoo7g0+id5Pw9dSiNTbxg/N5DhthAlW3UD3fs7Nm82BbcXjNiH9FuFY86suyqt/zd8x2Nobzpwx4mZvYji2gP22Ztm440x5AtZkkaKxP+iwJXSiWQ0kPxWKqTUkrZ7EWI= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 7 Aug 2012 01:40:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20120807014022.60248.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] URI templates and WEIRDS X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 01:40:51 -0000 I took another look at URI templates, and they're still an elegant (albeit underspecified) solution to a problem that has no relation to what WEIRDS is doing. The sets of questions that one can ask a WHOIS server are really quite small and well understood, even though there is a haze of nits surrounding them. The questions today are the same today as they were in the 1990s. Once we define the URL syntax for those questions, we are done. As I hardly need remind you, the fewer options a standard gives implementers, the better interoperation you get, and I really do not want more than one way to ask who owns a domain, or what is the abuse contact for an IP address. For your specific points: 1) If, in the end, name and number queries differ in important ways, a client wouldn't need to know which one it was about to address a priori; rather, the server tells it how it wants the query URI to be constructed. Constructing the URL is about 2% of what a WEIRDS client does. It needs to know what the question is (which is more than the datatypes of the arguments, e.g., queries for registered domains and for name servers both take a domain name argument), figure out what credentials are relevant and how to pass them, deal with errors and redirects, parse the result, and pick out whatever parts the client application needs. Other than dealing with the errors and redirects, and maybe parsing some sub-chunks of the result, name and number queries have nothing in common. 2) If at some point a server undergoes a change in architecture and wants the query to be formatted differently, it only needs to alter the template rather than being forced to accommodate a standard. The client then adjusts immediately and automatically. Not our problem. As has often been noted, if you want mod_rewrite, you know where to find it. We all expect the number of clients to vastly exceed the number of servers, so we want to make the clients simpler. 3) Consensus among web architecture experts (one of whom is Cc'd here and hopefully will comment) is that reserving part of the URI namespace in a standard is bad practice. As I heard it stated, "servers own URI syntax, not standards." In our context, that's just wrong. We are not trying to lay a common interface on top of an existing set of web services, we are defining a web front end to a (perhaps) existing set of non-web databases. 4) Existing implementations ... Don't exist. The prototypes are certainly useful, but they are not anything we need to work around. Security considerations: Templates give you a way to introduce arbitrary strings of arbitrary size into client applications. When looking at RFC 6570 and the test suites, I see lots of tests to see whether reasonable templates with reasonable data expand correctly, but no stress tests to see what happens with unreasonable templates and data created by unreasonable people (like, say, me). By my reading of 6570, a 100K character variable name is perfectly legal. What will your C code do with megabyte templates with 100K variable names? Do we really want to introduce a new source of buffer overflow exploits? R's, John From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Aug 7 04:30:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA7BE21F86DA for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 04:30:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dgjwoeznnSxx for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 04:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og102.obsmtp.com (exprod6og102.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.183]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01E121F86DB for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 04:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob102.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUCD8RppnOaaoQ0RZZIT+KgRdIPw4gIn5@postini.com; Tue, 07 Aug 2012 04:30:16 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q77BUB12015182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Aug 2012 07:30:11 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 07:30:11 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Working Group Documents Thread-Index: AQHNc0qdB8bJCK/4EUCOHcGnRUk59pdONvVw Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:30:10 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 11:30:18 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Murray S. Kucherawy [mailto:superuser@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 4:41 PM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents >=20 > On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott > wrote: > > I'm still a little confused about the approach we're taking with > respect to write our working group documents. During the meeting on > Wednesday we saw a slide that described an approach, but we didn't talk > about specifics in the context of the current set of individual > submission drafts. Can someone describe the document proposal in a bit > more detail? >=20 > In Vancouver, the co-chairs presented a proposed path forward that > included documents that describe framework, transport (including > authentication), query and reply specifications with an aim toward a > convergence as far up the stack as possible, splitting only when > needed toward the "end" where the two major constituents diverge in > their data. This appeared to be acceptable to the room, inasmuch as a > few people said so and nobody said otherwise. >=20 > I believe this means the current documents marked "Call For Adoption" > are, in general, inputs to that idea but may or may not be directly > usable toward those goals. >=20 > My view is that the design team(s) we dispatch will use the > presentations in Vancouver and these drafts as input to the proposals > they will bring back to the working group, with the "unified stack" > notion as a guideline. The team(s) can determine which documents, if > any, are suitable bases going forward, or if from-scratch documents > would be better starting points. OK, so the approach described in this note from 16 May: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg01071.html is being reconsidered. Which design team is responsible for producing a pro= posal? The team described in this note: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg01444.html appears to have other responsibilities. Scott From vesely@tana.it Wed Aug 8 12:00:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB9511E8132 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 12:00:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.128, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gb41jQ05uLfr for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 12:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (mail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94EF611E8121 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 12:00:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1344452415; bh=QUOjdX86V+GHb9fOQHamm8AH/kcs1dJ1Ys9Zicdi/10=; l=968; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jtgd8D9FNUIH1z0Z4ku0eEGFv+c0NdzOYOLPJy71RnfDhWFV7+iXqs09ggwuStATt eBZLrgOZw2k6etB4Ffvx0gWXP3/9W1wGieVm625MykTb58idfZE+A0MjrodcnJAsgY nigmbOEjYigInmsfYpwPXoS6lX1vcYag8v8aNSBs= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 21:00:15 +0200 id 00000000005DC035.000000005022B73F.00005317 Message-ID: <5022B73E.7010701@tana.it> Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 21:00:14 +0200 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:00:18 -0000 On Sun 05/Aug/2012 08:45:27 +0200 Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > Relevant materials: > [...] > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-4.pdf > > The WG moved to the Object Inventory. Ning Kong made a presentation. > The Chairs noted that the point of the work is input to a design team > that will pick common base objects to standardize. There was some > discussion about the semantics of the output (and difference with > presentation). The inventory that was presented is a very valuable piece of work by itself. As it thoroughly documents an existing practice, which will doubtlessly stay in use at least until weirds will be up and running, the inventory deserves a broader diffusion than being published as an item of IETF 84's proceedings. Can the WG publish it as an RFC? I have to note that the number counterpart of it is missing, although such data would seem to be easier to gather than it was for names. Thanks From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Wed Aug 8 18:28:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49E211E8143 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 18:28:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.532 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.067, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id csvNs6J+J27B for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 18:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AAF2511E8105 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 18:28:31 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:28:25 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Alessandro Vesely'" , References: <5022B73E.7010701@tana.it> In-Reply-To: <5022B73E.7010701@tana.it> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 09:28:26 +0800 Message-ID: <000001cd75ce$468a1660$d39e4320$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac11mDgVKlI1MTLKQ7uFtZ4QjoTQ7AAM2DCw Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 01:28:34 -0000 Hi all, > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Alessandro Vesely > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:00 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting > > On Sun 05/Aug/2012 08:45:27 +0200 Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > > > Relevant materials: > > [...] > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-4.pdf > > > > The WG moved to the Object Inventory. Ning Kong made a presentation. > > The Chairs noted that the point of the work is input to a design team > > that will pick common base objects to standardize. There was some > > discussion about the semantics of the output (and difference with > > presentation). > > The inventory that was presented is a very valuable piece of work by itself. As > it thoroughly documents an existing practice, which will doubtlessly stay in use > at least until weirds will be up and running, the inventory deserves a broader > diffusion than being published as an item of IETF 84's proceedings. Can the > WG publish it as an RFC? > > I have to note that the number counterpart of it is missing, although such data > would seem to be easier to gather than it was for names. > The link of the detailed statistics excel file is https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B96TtoK8a--MTTRuVUt3UHZMdEk. We'd appreciate that anyone in the working group could point out the mistakes and help refine the data. If you find anything wrong, please let me know. :) Thanks and regards. Linlin Zhou > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From Antoin.Verschuren@sidn.nl Thu Aug 9 01:34:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0952F21F85E7 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 01:34:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WdyOSHSWF4Rk for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 01:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arn2-kamx.sidn.nl (kamx.sidn.nl [94.198.152.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE20021F85D2 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 01:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kahubcasn02.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.74]) by arn2-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id q798YWhZ010043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:34:32 +0200 Received: from KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) by kahubcasn02.SIDN.local (192.168.2.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:34:31 +0200 Received: from [94.198.156.18] (94.198.156.18) by KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:34:31 +0200 Message-ID: <50237615.7020403@sidn.nl> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:34:29 +0200 From: Antoin Verschuren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <5022B73E.7010701@tana.it> <000001cd75ce$468a1660$d39e4320$@cn> In-Reply-To: <000001cd75ce$468a1660$d39e4320$@cn> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5a1pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [94.198.156.18] Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 08:34:35 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09-08-12 03:28, Linlin Zhou wrote: > > The link of the detailed statistics excel file is > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B96TtoK8a--MTTRuVUt3UHZMdEk. We'd > appreciate that anyone in the working group could point out the > mistakes and help refine the data. If you find anything wrong, > please let me know. :) The link only seems to work if you have some sort of cloud user account, which, for the vendor you have chosen to use, I don't have. So I cannot verify if the data is correct. Is there another place I can find the data you've collected on the open Internet ? - -- Antoin Verschuren Technical Policy Advisor SIDN Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl http://www.sidn.nl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQI3YQAAoJEDqHrM883AgnE7oH/i4EshMbVJ4S9NpSWsxULZhs Uc+Oc1aQqZPRev0rccj0N9N3BEHQoQpXTi/A53RC+xXR4ypNQtpu96UC8vACtrw5 ADBlj5M5NANWFAuNM5Dlxm/Sks4yGy5VEjF5ssRdibjp0tQBfFsYyEwQKJXVLT7D CxC0mv/UIWaIAoiSt46cRp9PeQh38GkvfmYphCt6xxGCFoSh3aNsrbKiFZbk4RC8 DPAHKv7kyYmQ3HvskKStu8ZtohgCB/bv8SsAUItxooKf28n9L3GfIH71U/RHUJbi S0WzQtgDsIwvM+pty0JWiTlm1NvkbZzc70saM5xP92SKPAdJqUyvzmFt9mF6Ep8= =bli7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Thu Aug 9 02:29:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B348421F85FC for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:29:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uH7JrLdnaJAD for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E7D721F86BA for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 02:29:33 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 09 Aug 2012 17:29:21 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Antoin Verschuren'" , References: <5022B73E.7010701@tana.it> <000001cd75ce$468a1660$d39e4320$@cn> <50237615.7020403@sidn.nl> In-Reply-To: <50237615.7020403@sidn.nl> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 17:29:21 +0800 Message-ID: <002901cd7611$758feaa0$60afbfe0$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac12CdQro1mrORDFTyeTfCHTSKHSAwABZ/og Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:29:36 -0000 The file was uploaded again to here https://rapidshare.com/files/764753782/Whois_response_result_20120730.xls. I have tested that file can be downloaded without account. Just click the green download button:) Linlin Zhou CNNIC > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Antoin Verschuren > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 4:34 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS > meeting > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 09-08-12 03:28, Linlin Zhou wrote: > > > > The link of the detailed statistics excel file is > > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B96TtoK8a--MTTRuVUt3UHZMdEk. We'd > > appreciate that anyone in the working group could point out the > > mistakes and help refine the data. If you find anything wrong, please > > let me know. :) > > The link only seems to work if you have some sort of cloud user account, which, > for the vendor you have chosen to use, I don't have. > So I cannot verify if the data is correct. > Is there another place I can find the data you've collected on the open > Internet ? > > > - -- > Antoin Verschuren > > Technical Policy Advisor SIDN > Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands > > P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 > mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl > http://www.sidn.nl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQI3YQAAoJEDqHrM883AgnE7oH/i4EshMbVJ4S9NpSWsxUL > Zhs > Uc+Oc1aQqZPRev0rccj0N9N3BEHQoQpXTi/A53RC+xXR4ypNQtpu96UC8vACtrw > 5 > ADBlj5M5NANWFAuNM5Dlxm/Sks4yGy5VEjF5ssRdibjp0tQBfFsYyEwQKJXVLT7D > CxC0mv/UIWaIAoiSt46cRp9PeQh38GkvfmYphCt6xxGCFoSh3aNsrbKiFZbk4RC8 > DPAHKv7kyYmQ3HvskKStu8ZtohgCB/bv8SsAUItxooKf28n9L3GfIH71U/RHUJbi > S0WzQtgDsIwvM+pty0JWiTlm1NvkbZzc70saM5xP92SKPAdJqUyvzmFt9mF6Ep8 > = > =bli7 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Mon Aug 13 02:01:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E3521F853F for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 02:01:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.052, BAYES_40=-0.185, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ULU8W0hJLr8c for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 02:01:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 38EEE21F853C for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 02:01:19 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:01:13 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Antoin Verschuren'" References: <5022B73E.7010701@tana.it> <000001cd75ce$468a1660$d39e4320$@cn> <5023B9AC.8040004@sidn.nl> In-Reply-To: <5023B9AC.8040004@sidn.nl> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:01:14 +0800 Message-ID: <010c01cd7932$316068e0$94213aa0$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac12MhgyE/4pojnTTfS8xetNVjnIzwC94ytw Content-Language: zh-cn Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:01:27 -0000 Dear Antoin, Thank you for your information about .nl. I will update the data file ASAP. As to the whois data format, I found that there are various display ways. 1. key: value VS. key: blob data key:value example Registrant ID:66454 Registrant Name:Patrick W Lay Registrant Organization:Nic AG LLC Registrant Street1:3321 Whitestone Cir 206 Registrant Street2: Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Kissimmee Registrant State/Province:FL Registrant Postal Code:34741 Registrant Country:US Registrant Phone:+1.4072015298 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX:+1.7185044461 Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:drlay@nic.ag blob data example: Registrant: STI044010-SIDN2 Stichting Internet Domeinregistratie Nederland Stichting Internet Domeinregistratie Nederland, Meander 501, 6825MD ARNHEM, Netherlands +31.0263525555 support@sidn.nl So in the blob data example, I can't define the meaning of "registrant" and how to classify it in the data file. This is one of issues that I encountered. 2. single level VS. multi level single level example: Admin ID:65672 Admin Name:Dr. Patrick W. Lay Admin Organization:Nic AG LLC Admin Street1:3321 Whitestone Cir 206 Admin Street2: Admin Street3: Admin City:Kissimmee Admin State/Province:FL Admin Postal Code:34741 Admin Country:US Admin Phone:+1.4072015298 Admin Phone Ext.: Admin FAX:+1.7185044461 Admin FAX Ext.: Admin Email:drlay@nic.ag multi level example: Admin Contacts: Name: ICT Directorate | AFG NIC Organisation: Ministry of Communications and IT Address: Mohammad Jan Khan Watt Kabul, Kabul AF Email Address: aimal.marjan@mcit.gov.af Phone Number: +93 20 2103883 Fax Number: +93 20 2103700 The first level key "Admin Contacts" has no value. How to handle this element is another problem. I think the above elements format may affect a little about the number count of analysis result, but all the elements are listed in the data file and the data reflects a rough trend of elements distribution. Thanks again for your help. And any other data correction information will be appreciated. > -----Original Message----- > From: Antoin Verschuren [mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl] > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:23 PM > To: Linlin Zhou > Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS > meeting > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 09-08-12 03:28, Linlin Zhou wrote: > > > The link of the detailed statistics excel file is > > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B96TtoK8a--MTTRuVUt3UHZMdEk. We'd > > appreciate that anyone in the working group could point out the > > mistakes and help refine the data. If you find anything wrong, please > > let me know. :) > > For .nl, you forgot the Name Server. > And I have thoughts about any data element you call "Street" to be used in an > address. Addresses in some countries are unaware of street names, where > houses have a name and streets do not. So I find this data element name to be > "US/western oriented". Same is true for postal code, which is not standardized > (and cannot be standardized by the IETF). > The way we solve this is by having an entity including address as one blob, but > then again that is difficult to parse. > > I take it you only queried our public whois on port 43, which is heavily > restricted. > Our webinterface whois where you need to agree to T&C shows more > information. > And finaly, our registrar whois interface on port 43 (whitelisted) shows you all > the data elements and names dat we use. > For completion, here's the result of all 3, copyright notice deleted: > > > Linlin Zhou CNNIC From andy@arin.net Tue Aug 14 07:18:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AEBC21F86D8 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 07:18:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HuPLCON4zmAi for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 07:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC3021F86EF for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 07:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 2530721363C; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC56213633 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:18:06 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.124]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:17:14 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: simplifying the media type versioning Thread-Index: AQHNeid7cOWnEkMlbE2L/IGAhG2xBg== Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:17:06 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4562FBCAC3ED0448ABCBA5A62EFA3B6B@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] simplifying the media type versioning X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:18:41 -0000 At the meeting in Vancouver, Chris Wright pointed out that versioning with = media types does not include versioning of the extensions. To me, that is a= valid point. Using JCK's pleading that we keep this stuff simple, it might be best to de= fine one media type for everything and use the version identifiers in the r= dapConformance structure. The danger in doing so is that it would present p= roblems if version 2 was a radical departure from version 1. In my opinion,= that probability is low. Does anybody had a strong opinion against simplifying the media types or se= e any big issues with doing so? -andy= From leifj@mnt.se Tue Aug 14 07:56:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8D921F865E for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 07:56:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id enIAjtrJPKyA for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 07:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from backup-server.nordu.net (backup-server.nordu.net [IPv6:2001:948:4:1::66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E18B21F851B for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 07:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.36.125.241] (dhcp.pilsnet.sunet.se [192.36.125.241] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by backup-server.nordu.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q7EEuXDx006328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 16:56:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <502A6721.8070509@mnt.se> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 16:56:33 +0200 From: Leif Johansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] simplifying the media type versioning X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:56:38 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/14/2012 04:17 PM, Andy Newton wrote: > At the meeting in Vancouver, Chris Wright pointed out that > versioning with media types does not include versioning of the > extensions. To me, that is a valid point. > > Using JCK's pleading that we keep this stuff simple, it might be > best to define one media type for everything and use the version > identifiers in the rdapConformance structure. The danger in doing > so is that it would present problems if version 2 was a radical > departure from version 1. In my opinion, that probability is low. > > Does anybody had a strong opinion against simplifying the media > types or see any big issues with doing so? I think its fine - the worst that can happen is that version 4711 has to declare a completely new media type. Cheers Leif -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlAqZyAACgkQ8Jx8FtbMZndNjQCgotNzce4a6rBbH0L9WVBjzc8Y iBsAoKVM4aYlAQfJCTgmPw6ilu7fikoZ =Ue2w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sm@resistor.net Tue Aug 14 15:03:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606F221E80BA for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:03:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.113, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6KhgQFW7jpWq for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752FC21E8050 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7EM2tRw022456 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:02:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1344981779; bh=Aq8DuV8Cb+O1emGsn2HoNrFmuhmabLHH4QKIL7+9ONU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=3snzZSXHrReZamJGULn9yNOFw5dhE5G0EpwyUAEzbkPOfsXZvHHs/O30BaxNP5aFe US+xZOFz+6WPWb8iFfQ98565/opTBW89sLfao3nQYe2hFDCVbgAh+jW1lh4fzeaFa5 lSWu3j612eAOOQg+HfU3XmPtomumjuSVYlDTLm2E= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1344981779; i=@resistor.net; bh=Aq8DuV8Cb+O1emGsn2HoNrFmuhmabLHH4QKIL7+9ONU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=hLqecdYQwcB3K4+s0WgJiGf14f6IkDjbaijPI/IWzykkH7wsMw2/QryT+Jo0I6Zf3 f49+BtrWQDPRe1BzMAkNe6YU2skORmmScnwd57VHwTw2DVgP/ECosKDOsF5Es9YC1n jh8u1cizTOIHZo2fs/Cc8NwYZzp6xrCCmHv80hJo= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:02:54 -0700 To: weirds@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vco rp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:03:02 -0000 At 04:30 07-08-2012, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >OK, so the approach described in this note from 16 May: > >http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg01071.html > >is being reconsidered. Which design team is responsible for >producing a proposal? The team described in this note: > >http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg01444.html > >appears to have other responsibilities. Why does the working group need design teams? Are there any drafts which can be used as input? Please note that I have read the drafts posted to figure out whether to head North, South, East or West. In my individual opinion there has been the usual bickering about direction and composition of the design teams. The current state is that nobody is responsible for producing anything by a due date. May I not-so-humbly suggest that one or two individuals are dispatched to write some drafts? If the individuals cannot come up with some proposals that the working group find palatable, they can be placed on extended leave. I think that it is high time to move ahead with the suicide mission. :-) Regards, -sm From aservin@lacnic.net Tue Aug 14 15:16:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB81D21E80BE for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:16:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bW8+UaSrYAoi for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D1E21E80BC for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.18.89] (unknown [190.60.88.62]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CED830843C; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:16:32 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:16:27 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> To: SM X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:16:41 -0000 There are two documents by numbers describing the data model and = the query. We built those after analysing the different RIR data-models = and finding common ground: draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query I suggest that name's people look at them and to the research = presented in Vancouver and tell us if the objects described in the I+Ds = are re-usable as they are or with amendments. Afterwards, a possible outcome would be to describe common = objects/queries between names and numbers (if such intersection exists) = in a document or just to use numbers as an starting point and extend the = model in names documents (if somebody ask me, I prefer the later) my 20 cents, as On 14 Aug 2012, at 17:02, SM wrote: > At 04:30 07-08-2012, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >> OK, so the approach described in this note from 16 May: >>=20 >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg01071.html >>=20 >> is being reconsidered. Which design team is responsible for producing = a proposal? The team described in this note: >>=20 >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg01444.html >>=20 >> appears to have other responsibilities. >=20 > Why does the working group need design teams? Are there any drafts = which can be used as input? Please note that I have read the drafts = posted to figure out whether to head North, South, East or West. >=20 > In my individual opinion there has been the usual bickering about = direction and composition of the design teams. The current state is = that nobody is responsible for producing anything by a due date. >=20 > May I not-so-humbly suggest that one or two individuals are dispatched = to write some drafts? If the individuals cannot come up with some = proposals that the working group find palatable, they can be placed on = extended leave. >=20 > I think that it is high time to move ahead with the suicide mission. = :-) >=20 > Regards, > -sm=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Aug 14 18:01:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3084821F86B0 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:01:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GjJBg8du3E3M for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og105.obsmtp.com (exprod6og105.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.189]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7192121F86A7 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob105.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUCr09cjqFg/e1ODEBzbylyCdlwfguwn8@postini.com; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:01:49 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q7F11cQ8002967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:01:38 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:01:37 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: SM , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Working Group Documents Thread-Index: AQHNemiViw3hOnlcuUCs6G8oiMENI5daC3iQ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:01:37 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D661D6B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:01:51 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of SM > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 6:03 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents >=20 > In my individual opinion there has been the usual bickering about > direction and composition of the design teams. The current state is > that nobody is responsible for producing anything by a due date. This is what I'm getting concerned about because we now seem to be in a sta= te of paralysis. For whatever it's worth I'm going to take up Arturos's sug= gestion and take another look at the RIR drafts with an eye towards identif= ying the common components. Andy and I should be able to come up with some = recommendations after we've had a chance to compare notes. Scott From sm@resistor.net Tue Aug 14 18:33:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE3321E80E1 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:33:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.187 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.187 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.188, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TOmaFqTA6Juf for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC1121E80CD for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7F1XLqk014363; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:33:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1344994406; bh=/LYRGmpbSvc4x7dz2aDIAIUFIe9Ot0Yi/NuHmcSZNBA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=NxiIxWcLb70jcktgK136r41zryLPfm/aBHQV4MyQT1R1ji8J3GI8sk6CjXs4JXRyp LuWuX5skDU3kjsEoCW2Abvpf5KJ0PBF1zIv09An8fMih2WgsDNfZ4+wZh//Lacfttm a9wfg5JUXTb4sA7bXOyKJ+jzzN4G9Fm0s7Ys2vhI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1344994406; i=@resistor.net; bh=/LYRGmpbSvc4x7dz2aDIAIUFIe9Ot0Yi/NuHmcSZNBA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=2MwjYUPS5cyFmDDQeOtMH+LKfwJ6yTdtu6j+1D2zQoGOWT6hJe67hpCMFT8lCs+Rb ho12rbLWA8JGVDU/fJOF/FyVbB++q1Oxj5JRskSIBE9+JWxEV8O6eUaSDSGlsuq7Mh Fu6JMGOG4/SkAjOatTwNf+m+TEOAHn1BNfyhd5yk= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120814162332.0a137af8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:32:50 -0700 To: Arturo Servin From: SM In-Reply-To: <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:33:28 -0000 Hi Arturo, At 15:16 14-08-2012, Arturo Servin wrote: > There are two documents by numbers describing the data > model and the query. We built those after analysing the different > RIR data-models and finding common ground: > >draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response >draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query > > I suggest that name's people look at them and to the > research presented in Vancouver and tell us if the objects > described in the I+Ds are re-usable as they are or with amendments. These drafts are not working group items. The "look and research and tell us" would look good in a management report where we have to show that we are doing something. > Afterwards, a possible outcome would be to describe common > objects/queries between names and numbers (if such intersection > exists) in a document or just to use numbers as an starting point > and extend the model in names documents (if somebody ask me, I > prefer the later) I remember hearing the above some time back. Is anyone working on one possible outcome? When will there be a proposal about that? Regards, -sm From andy@arin.net Tue Aug 14 18:48:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E12B221E80E2 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:48:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.575 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.575 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KhvujPeec5TQ for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B7321E80E1 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 777FC21363C; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD1A213587; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:47:52 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.124]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:48:26 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: SM Thread-Topic: [weirds] Working Group Documents Thread-Index: AQHNemiaQ/cLCzwKEkK1u/d7X1vXNJdaIyGAgAA23wCAAAReAA== Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:48:26 +0000 Message-ID: <18DB0CE9-DD3B-4A99-B78B-EFFB94BD13F0@arin.net> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814162332.0a137af8@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120814162332.0a137af8@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.97] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8D2111E9B761864AA4A56BE0DF506C1E@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:48:29 -0000 On Aug 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SM wrote: > These drafts are not working group items. The "look and research and tel= l us" would look good in a management report where we have to show that we = are doing something. What exactly do you mean by this? -andy= From aservin@lacnic.net Tue Aug 14 21:20:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C20A21E805E for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:20:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80AA7YAydSwu for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FB3D21E80AB for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.18.89] (unknown [190.60.88.62]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82139308432; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:04:40 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120814162332.0a137af8@resistor.net> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 23:04:36 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <28EF3A23-3435-4D62-BA49-6110D5815483@lacnic.net> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814162332.0a137af8@resistor.net> To: SM X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 04:20:52 -0000 Does it matter that they do not have the "weirds" words on it? You asked for some individuals to write some drafts, the drafts = are there as part of the numbers work. In my view if we want to reuse = some objects we should start by reviewing the work already done. If = something is useful for names, let's use it. Regards. .as On 14 Aug 2012, at 20:32, SM wrote: > Hi Arturo, > At 15:16 14-08-2012, Arturo Servin wrote: >> There are two documents by numbers describing the data model = and the query. We built those after analysing the different RIR = data-models and finding common ground: >>=20 >> draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response >> draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query >>=20 >> I suggest that name's people look at them and to the research = presented in Vancouver and tell us if the objects described in the I+Ds = are re-usable as they are or with amendments. >=20 > These drafts are not working group items. The "look and research and = tell us" would look good in a management report where we have to show = that we are doing something. >=20 >> Afterwards, a possible outcome would be to describe common = objects/queries between names and numbers (if such intersection exists) = in a document or just to use numbers as an starting point and extend the = model in names documents (if somebody ask me, I prefer the later) >=20 > I remember hearing the above some time back. Is anyone working on one = possible outcome? When will there be a proposal about that? >=20 > Regards, > -sm >=20 From sm@resistor.net Tue Aug 14 22:31:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 727EB11E80A2 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:31:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.113, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E6DXMhx-FRCb for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24FC11E809C for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7F5V8DH016448; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:31:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1345008679; bh=TrqKNqol3QaFayPRdQM3DsnNs53XZwfCDbcaer+XgFA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=LjYqW50j+GbZaX/SyCGvlVKgLXWzbGPask7LHcAJ7sAinCClOFcLYnkYNHTXkB7Jp n/M9RppKAytmlHh1om+l4pk4wtpSx/Gkzh9gdelJrXm5IuhvOTQEW5V8gZ+s5GxOrh Du5FlZxwPUH+/38EedvjLIJWdXn7zcQg0qvtQ1WU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1345008679; i=@resistor.net; bh=TrqKNqol3QaFayPRdQM3DsnNs53XZwfCDbcaer+XgFA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=rQuJbypRK+qnGnJRziqOpskhxbvC7UfcdFrxvG8PPdaykWG4J+75Q2GczLx9efejQ 8agtFgnZgZiD+dgAY7gwMiiszuqKtytgz+q6HW2QjfR7gWpKs3om9d7MixSL5O1Ta2 emziYs+jEvgxzpJ+ilY6f4TO6KooViUWc5mX7cSM= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120814220100.0a97d370@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:30:27 -0700 To: Arturo Servin From: SM In-Reply-To: <28EF3A23-3435-4D62-BA49-6110D5815483@lacnic.net> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814162332.0a137af8@resistor.net> <28EF3A23-3435-4D62-BA49-6110D5815483@lacnic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 05:31:21 -0000 Hi Arturo, At 21:04 14-08-2012, Arturo Servin wrote: > Does it matter that they do not have the "weirds" words on it? Yes, it does as it means that the WG has a draft to work on. > You asked for some individuals to write some drafts, the > drafts are there as part of the numbers work. In my view if we want > to reuse some objects we should start by reviewing the work already > done. If something is useful for names, let's use it. The work already done is useful as a starting point. Linlin Zhou posted some information for names ( http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg01470.html ). Scott Hollenbeck asked about the approach being taken ( http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg01455.html ). If the following is the equation: x = a + b - c a can be resolved, then b, then c, to get to get the answer for x. You cannot get anywhere without b or c. What I asked about is how to get to that WG draft (x) and when does the WG plan to get there. Regards, -sm From sm@resistor.net Tue Aug 14 22:31:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E87311E80A2 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:31:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.487 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.487 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.112, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SiesnWq9sx8x for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C28E511E809C for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7F5V8DF016448; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:31:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1345008673; bh=JxyGFP4i6gMDLMFRcpI+hf9/XGN+tnicHutTS2GbjlI=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=WnQy0tb8vV4kWMcuOLuZdWlLhr3pMKGGrDzcp3Ld4chFue43gnt4CznOjLXePGq5r iu38ksul1zwC2jujOWCU9VYIgtfHLIJoC7GM+1kI9a/3YlQ24E9MuGgMCcMFAJMswk soBTtsPBRsb9RJgUnFWOkFIgTP96vSqmsw30VujY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1345008673; i=@resistor.net; bh=JxyGFP4i6gMDLMFRcpI+hf9/XGN+tnicHutTS2GbjlI=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Wfz6mP6En2o4lsFTrNnqM1qGtPaU8KRxOBS/wGk8+KnZS2qThmKsmjixD6m5nVsVM 5TRM7TWSAuckQhFLTlZMk3TcJYwhKM4G1wZF7yAYe8kxp4kMUzCEFLsJW1tAQqXO3A WRfK4IQHxWLtCqBXg+0A9pkZ5AOVYZ2eSp+XNw7E= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120814214321.0a97d228@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:00:43 -0700 To: Andy Newton From: SM In-Reply-To: <18DB0CE9-DD3B-4A99-B78B-EFFB94BD13F0@arin.net> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814162332.0a137af8@resistor.net> <18DB0CE9-DD3B-4A99-B78B-EFFB94BD13F0@arin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 05:31:22 -0000 Hi Andy, At 18:48 14-08-2012, Andy Newton wrote: >What exactly do you mean by this? There still isn't any WG draft. From an IETF perspective work gets done once there is a WG draft which reflect the WG discussions. Regards, -sm From sm@resistor.net Wed Aug 15 01:45:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9F421F877D for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:45:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.488 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.488 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pQTXux8p16FA for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1215221F877E for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7F8j8xd004403; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:45:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1345020313; bh=HVwfLj50d2o3g80c5BKOsUu7WEr/DApLVevnrJbOdBA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=vYsmWs4iWk0i4fH7DJya/bhUe/Qlg5mxwSCFufvL4BZiuSepU4ftAsDtTM5Hi8mcI lXEAOQENRx+oqFShMwD9G/om6so+wsWpqzZFoUipQStOtZbXsWDnJkzm3yJgIhjoe4 X7Vrsf46G1X2b53jL7mnLnWohP9ditXboJx95QKs= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1345020313; i=@resistor.net; bh=HVwfLj50d2o3g80c5BKOsUu7WEr/DApLVevnrJbOdBA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=ee7BtmoP3M4ZJXky/U79Hns2ni0UdoIrwD/6YZisCEJAehB5BSExtDm784/g/qI5y HA2Rf56a83LSsxUnxjnhCsoALPyHOg1uhnEWFZahbW+qSJwfdrv12jWUUw65bLFLRz dEgntY9RQWpvhz+ieE5/ML5TpSnMPHqbrAK/UuwA= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120815011344.0a4672a8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 01:43:55 -0700 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" From: SM In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D661D6B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vco rp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D661D6B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 08:45:17 -0000 Hi Scott, At 18:01 14-08-2012, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >This is what I'm getting concerned about because we now seem to be >in a state of paralysis. For whatever it's worth I'm going to take >up Arturos's suggestion and take > another look at the RIR drafts with an eye towards identifying the > common components. Andy and I should be able to come up with some > recommendations after we've had a chance to compare notes. That sounds encouraging as you are looking at the two sides of the problem instead of one side waiting for the other side to do something. The next question would be when do you expect to be able to share the recommendations with the group. Regards, -sm From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Aug 15 03:42:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94CDC21F8770 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w+8PAE9P5Zhh for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og110.obsmtp.com (exprod6og110.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4835721F8724 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob110.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUCt9BWP+USXJWvIRWGuJSqljRHVHT2Fw@postini.com; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:42:24 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q7FAgAJo028335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:42:10 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:42:09 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: SM Thread-Topic: [weirds] Working Group Documents Thread-Index: AQHNemiViw3hOnlcuUCs6G8oiMENI5daC3iQgACET/GAACAM4A== Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:42:09 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D661F7E@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D661D6B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120815011344.0a4672a8@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120815011344.0a4672a8@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:42:25 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: SM [mailto:sm@resistor.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 4:44 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [weirds] Working Group Documents >=20 > Hi Scott, > At 18:01 14-08-2012, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > >This is what I'm getting concerned about because we now seem to be > >in a state of paralysis. For whatever it's worth I'm going to take > >up Arturos's suggestion and take > > another look at the RIR drafts with an eye towards identifying the > > common components. Andy and I should be able to come up with some > > recommendations after we've had a chance to compare notes. >=20 > That sounds encouraging as you are looking at the two sides of the > problem instead of one side waiting for the other side to do > something. The next question would be when do you expect to be able > to share the recommendations with the group. Within a few weeks, depending on coordinating schedules with Andy. Scott From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Wed Aug 15 03:43:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4072021F8724 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:43:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MuuCyPAcbxWk for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 548ED21F86F9 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:43:21 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 18:43:11 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Arturo Servin'" , "'SM'" References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 18:43:10 +0800 Message-ID: <00bd01cd7ad2$c4359860$4ca0c920$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac16an3X8x4nMuSdRgy7UyazMohj+wAYjO/Q Content-Language: zh-cn Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:43:24 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Arturo Servin > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 6:16 AM > To: SM > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents > > > I suggest that name's people look at them and to the research presented > in Vancouver and tell us if the objects described in the I+Ds are re-usable as > they are or with amendments. > > Afterwards, a possible outcome would be to describe common > objects/queries between names and numbers (if such intersection exists) in a > document or just to use numbers as an starting point and extend the model in > names documents (if somebody ask me, I prefer the later) > The object inventory analysis done for names is to help identify common objects in various name registries. The point is that I don't think we have consensus on common elements for names. I agree that using numbers as a starting point. But I think discussion and clarification on what elements are common or extension in registries of names is necessary. Don't we need to do this work first or in parallel? Regards, Linlin Zhou From sm@resistor.net Wed Aug 15 06:03:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A670D21F87FA for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:03:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.489 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.489 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KBsSEhReE2U5 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C113421F87FB for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7FD3Sbq010840; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:03:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1345035813; bh=pq1k+CmjpRmvI9wpLvxhh7moAsOAJPQldB3+XmMxbp8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=UOyGkhIBTuRnxLUK94h5y25CzfTb2/824c3Jog0nLO/Qov99DHP/HwdQFKEiCsvmP Prf1Cl8QPLCI61szXvD9QI9fWAn1V6Wqwt353nj76+m+3Ma6hdI0Tspzmw2uh+FdxH OIpuh8taoWaCjfLOz5QJALT31mboJ7zkRm+2IrkE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1345035813; i=@resistor.net; bh=pq1k+CmjpRmvI9wpLvxhh7moAsOAJPQldB3+XmMxbp8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=gbjfzlIndmXa4xslMIHuza0XfiHVBxQm8Ip7oJOowR9ujh/J3LNqa00/yu0kULCDN 1GjZc2B5TpOQtUn9o4WwqBXY1quZTnuPhL1dsNc98DL24gIpdQ2qEaKuVHBErp8fsF Xm0vxT8zCxMv3y0urNuYK9NYdEVYFmqpNaeVvQHc= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120815053507.0a2fd250@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 06:02:22 -0700 To: Linlin Zhou From: SM In-Reply-To: <00bd01cd7ad2$c4359860$4ca0c920$@cn> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65D6BA@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D65EDC8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120814144542.0a247018@resistor.net> <49C6979B-F829-4189-B5F9-447AFA1E34F4@lacnic.net> <00bd01cd7ad2$c4359860$4ca0c920$@cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Working Group Documents X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:03:44 -0000 Hi Linlin, At 03:43 15-08-2012, Linlin Zhou wrote: >The object inventory analysis done for names is to help identify common >objects in various name registries. The point is that I don't think we have >consensus on common elements for names. How about looking at the inventory in terms of: (i) Things that people can agree about (ii) Things that people are discussing about (iii) Things that people strongly disagree about. It may be easier to identify the issues then. >I agree that using numbers as a starting point. But I think discussion and >clarification on what elements are common or extension in registries of >names is necessary. Don't we need to do this work first or in parallel? If you look at it in terms of whether to do the work first or in parallel, that's one more question for the group to answer. An individual could propose something instead (see above). Regards, -sm From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Thu Aug 16 18:53:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A3B21F84F9 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:53:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.384 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.384 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.215, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6LaqkzQUGA9k for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 07E7621F8484 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 09:53:32 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Antoin Verschuren'" , References: <5022B73E.7010701@tana.it> <000001cd75ce$468a1660$d39e4320$@cn> <50237615.7020403@sidn.nl> <002901cd7611$758feaa0$60afbfe0$@cn> In-Reply-To: <002901cd7611$758feaa0$60afbfe0$@cn> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 09:53:31 +0800 Message-ID: <008801cd7c1b$1af7efb0$50e7cf10$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac12CdQro1mrORDFTyeTfCHTSKHSAwABZ/ogAYLb1VA= Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS meeting X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 01:53:50 -0000 The latest version of data file after updating .nl whois response. https://rapidshare.com/files/2363548949/Whois_response_result_20120817.xls Regards Linlin Zhou > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Linlin Zhou > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:29 PM > To: 'Antoin Verschuren'; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 WEIRDS > meeting > > The file was uploaded again to here > https://rapidshare.com/files/764753782/Whois_response_result_20120730.xl > s. > I have tested that file can be downloaded without account. Just click the green > download button:) > > Linlin Zhou > CNNIC > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > > Behalf > Of > > Antoin Verschuren > > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 4:34 PM > > To: weirds@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [weirds] Object Inventory, was Minutes from IETF 84 > > WEIRDS meeting > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 09-08-12 03:28, Linlin Zhou wrote: > > > > > > The link of the detailed statistics excel file is > > > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B96TtoK8a--MTTRuVUt3UHZMdEk. > We'd > > > appreciate that anyone in the working group could point out the > > > mistakes and help refine the data. If you find anything wrong, > > > please let me know. :) > > > > The link only seems to work if you have some sort of cloud user > > account, > which, > > for the vendor you have chosen to use, I don't have. > > So I cannot verify if the data is correct. > > Is there another place I can find the data you've collected on the > > open Internet ? > > > > > > - -- > > Antoin Verschuren > > > > Technical Policy Advisor SIDN > > Meander 501, PO Box 5022, 6802 EA Arnhem, The Netherlands > > > > P: +31 26 3525500 F: +31 26 3525505 M: +31 6 23368970 > > mailto:antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl xmpp:antoin@jabber.sidn.nl > > http://www.sidn.nl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > > > > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQI3YQAAoJEDqHrM883AgnE7oH/i4EshMbVJ4S9NpSWsxUL > > Zhs > > > Uc+Oc1aQqZPRev0rccj0N9N3BEHQoQpXTi/A53RC+xXR4ypNQtpu96UC8vACtrw > > 5 > > > ADBlj5M5NANWFAuNM5Dlxm/Sks4yGy5VEjF5ssRdibjp0tQBfFsYyEwQKJXVLT7D > > > CxC0mv/UIWaIAoiSt46cRp9PeQh38GkvfmYphCt6xxGCFoSh3aNsrbKiFZbk4RC8 > > DPAHKv7kyYmQ3HvskKStu8ZtohgCB/bv8SsAUItxooKf28n9L3GfIH71U/RHUJbi > > > S0WzQtgDsIwvM+pty0JWiTlm1NvkbZzc70saM5xP92SKPAdJqUyvzmFt9mF6Ep8 > > = > > =bli7 > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > > weirds mailing list > > weirds@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From shollenbeck@verisign.com Fri Aug 31 05:35:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE48F21F85C7 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:35:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.406 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.406 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.193, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DcDiXPK6++Tf for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og111.obsmtp.com (exprod6og111.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F56D21F85B8 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob111.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUECvmICVLZGpx6m8ffzjXBj5APelD4IF@postini.com; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:35:37 PDT Received: from BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexchm01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.255]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q7VCZWHA025851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:35:36 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:35:24 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Unified DNR/RIR Internet-Drafts Thread-Index: Ac2HdRuzzuLcqmYKTG2sVLh3JJzaWQ== Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:35:31 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D675F0C@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] New Unified DNR/RIR Internet-Drafts X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:35:37 -0000 Andy Newton and I have been working on a set of documents that we hope will= allow us to start making progress on a unified RIR/DNR approach to queries= and responses. The first two of the three documents were just announced: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-weirds-unified-rdap-query https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-weirds-unified-json-response The third document describes security services and their applications to th= e protocol. I haven't posted it yet because the reference files for the fir= st two documents (I like to use XML entities that refer to remote files for= my document references) aren't yet accessible. I'll publish this third doc= ument as soon as I can. When done it will be visible here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-sec So, a question for the chairs and group: combined with the "using http" and= redirection drafts, do we now have a set that's ready to become working gr= oup documents? Scott From shollenbeck@verisign.com Fri Aug 31 06:54:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2598C21F8622 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 06:54:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.418 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S0K71iFe7pzT for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 06:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og111.obsmtp.com (exprod6og111.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC9621F85C7 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 06:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob111.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUEDCBd6LDFU9prZpUN5t6KXjqn6ne9ix@postini.com; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 06:54:14 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q7VDs9Rp003922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:54:13 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:54:09 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "'weirds@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: New Unified DNR/RIR Internet-Drafts Thread-Index: Ac2HdRuzzuLcqmYKTG2sVLh3JJzaWQACuORg Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:54:08 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D676FCF@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D675F0C@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D675F0C@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] New Unified DNR/RIR Internet-Drafts X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:54:15 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Hollenbeck, Scott > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 8:36 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: New Unified DNR/RIR Internet-Drafts >=20 > Andy Newton and I have been working on a set of documents that we hope > will allow us to start making progress on a unified RIR/DNR approach to > queries and responses. The first two of the three documents were just > announced: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-weirds-unified-rdap- > query >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-weirds-unified-json- > response >=20 > The third document describes security services and their applications > to the protocol. I haven't posted it yet because the reference files > for the first two documents (I like to use XML entities that refer to > remote files for my document references) aren't yet accessible. I'll > publish this third document as soon as I can. When done it will be > visible here: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-sec This third document has also been uploaded and announced. Scott From superuser@gmail.com Fri Aug 31 13:19:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A30D21F8577 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:19:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.628 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.628 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JB4nDxOsjSmE for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com (mail-lb0-f172.google.com [209.85.217.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC7821F854D for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbky2 with SMTP id y2so1775211lbk.31 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:18:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=eXFkp2SBjX1Fkuvc6eUNyXyI1GD0a8L7DQ8ZTwZ8d7Q=; b=RMoEL+AfnpDDnHshaI1phHte5CO+ANYydBesxCoygHB24V0i6xRl3y1WhHwBb0Khdq nukCaOmSX3zCqhgb067tPstxTaepXV8Jep9DngN9NeADyP22AiLa4Ukdu+lhVzkXb4w5 uimctsGQkJYTiUaKBR2MDYMn4pfRXqvSVSb9qhFq7GSKagbwFCl8VM5Pz9qS6DWQcUlW 7RHMdPevX4jORoSKxlBGw0k4776wIjrNoB/3PWx4TdZIEPFa12PdseSz29zAf2/zfk5L cWCVF3XK2YEoSAqdr1ATOjfpoQWjZ8Q4N28VPOWh6Cvfo4qVYYNc0hpZ7ly3PcWjT5YT LTgQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.122.9 with SMTP id lo9mr7489427lab.41.1346444339626; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.9.72 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:18:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D675F0C@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D675F0C@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:18:59 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Unified DNR/RIR Internet-Drafts X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:19:01 -0000 On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > So, a question for the chairs and group: combined with the "using http" and redirection drafts, do we now have a set that's ready to become working group documents? Having not yet spoken to Olaf (who is on vacation), my view is that this is in line with the vision the chairs presented in Vancouver for a path forward. Kudos to you and Andy for taking this initiative. To the WG: I propose that we adopt these as initial working group documents toward our milestones. Note, as usual, that they are merely starting points and foci for discussion; we need to develop them and reach working group consensus before they will be advanced for publication. I'll place them in Call For Adoption state now. Please review them and comment as to whether you believe they are reasonable starting points for development. -MSK