Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5G021CU018743; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:02:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5G021sD018742; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:02:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from homer.w3.org ([128.30.52.30]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5G020xG018731 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@w3.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homer.w3.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1284EFA7; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:01:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:01:51 +0200 From: Chris Lilley Reply-To: Chris Lilley Organization: W3C X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1578085970.20050616020151@w3.org> To: MURATA Makoto Cc: Mark Baker , ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content In-Reply-To: <20050616082827.6AEE.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> References: <20050616030956.7580.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <11810060563.20050615203116@w3.org> <20050616082827.6AEE.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, June 16, 2005, 1:35:09 AM, MURATA wrote: Chris>> With respect, you are, since I pointed one out in this thread. You may Chris>> disagree with it, but you are not unaware of it. I have already Chris>> mentioned content negotiation of schemas and the problems caused by Chris>> serving both RNG and XSD as application/xml. MM> Yes, of course. You pointed out the problem. MM> Chris, Mark, and Martin think that an attribute indicating media types MM> is very useful for standalone schemas and are inclined to forget MM> embedded schemas for now. Or at least, to say that reliably identifying a standalone schema does not necessarily constrain any future solution for embedded ones. MM> I think that an attribute specifying primary MM> namespaces, for example, is more useful and it works for standalone MM> schemas as well as embedded schemas. Possibly; a mere list is not really quite sufficient, as the xslt template shows. Nesting order is also important. MM> I also think that the use of media MM> types by the referrer should be avoided, since they may be different MM> from what the server says. Which has been looked at by the TAG and found to be consistent with Web Architecture as long as it is treated as a fetching hint and not defined to be authoritative over what the server sends, in the very few cases where that turns out to be different. -- Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org Chair, W3C SVG Working Group W3C Graphics Activity Lead Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FNZCu7013862; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:35:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5FNZC4G013861; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:35:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail1.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.197]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FNZ8eO013837 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from murata@hokkaido.email.ne.jp) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (r113192.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [210.167.113.192]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4F51C84E; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:35:05 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:35:09 +0900 From: MURATA Makoto To: Chris Lilley Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Cc: Mark Baker , ietf-xml-mime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <11810060563.20050615203116@w3.org> References: <20050616030956.7580.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <11810060563.20050615203116@w3.org> X-Mailer-Plugin: BkASPil for Becky!2 Ver.2.046 Message-Id: <20050616082827.6AEE.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.20.04 [ja] Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Chris> With respect, you are, since I pointed one out in this thread. You may Chris> disagree with it, but you are not unaware of it. I have already Chris> mentioned content negotiation of schemas and the problems caused by Chris> serving both RNG and XSD as application/xml. Yes, of course. You pointed out the problem. Chris, Mark, and Martin think that an attribute indicating media types is very useful for standalone schemas and are inclined to forget embedded schemas for now. I think that an attribute specifying primary namespaces, for example, is more useful and it works for standalone schemas as well as embedded schemas. I also think that the use of media types by the referrer should be avoided, since they may be different from what the server says. Cheers, -- MURATA Makoto Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FIVJ64038342; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5FIVJUC038341; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:31:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from homer.w3.org ([128.30.52.30]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FIVIPb038335 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:31:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@w3.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homer.w3.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B1E4EF6F; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:31:16 +0200 From: Chris Lilley Reply-To: Chris Lilley Organization: W3C X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <11810060563.20050615203116@w3.org> To: MURATA Makoto Cc: Mark Baker , ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content In-Reply-To: <20050616030956.7580.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> References: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050615165002.GG20401@markbaker.ca> <20050616030956.7580.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, June 15, 2005, 8:22:17 PM, MURATA wrote: Mark>> but for now though, I agree with Liam and Martin and Chris :) Mark>> that a new media type makes the most sense. MM> Here we do not agree. I think that the advantages of specialized MM> media types are rather minor. I am not aware of any complaints MM> about the lack of specialized media types for W3C XML Schema. With respect, you are, since I pointed one out in this thread. You may disagree with it, but you are not unaware of it. I have already mentioned content negotiation of schemas and the problems caused by serving both RNG and XSD as application/xml. -- Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org Chair, W3C SVG Working Group W3C Graphics Activity Lead Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FIMFs6036024; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5FIMFVD036023; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:22:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail2.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.198]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FIMELS036012 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:22:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from murata@hokkaido.email.ne.jp) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (r113232.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [210.167.113.232]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89AF717181; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:22:13 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:22:17 +0900 From: MURATA Makoto To: Mark Baker Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <20050615165002.GG20401@markbaker.ca> References: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050615165002.GG20401@markbaker.ca> X-Mailer-Plugin: BkASPil for Becky!2 Ver.2.046 Message-Id: <20050616030956.7580.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.20.04 [ja] Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Mark, Mark> I agree with your premise that a new media type for each new XML Mark> vocabulary is not a scalable, long-term solution. But neither do I Mark> think that application/xml is a solution. Here we agree. (I suppose you meant application/xml combined with namespace sniffing.) Mark> The work being done in the Mark> CDF WG may provide one, I think that a long-term solution is badly needed and that it is likely to be different from media types. Mark> but for now though, I agree with Liam and Mark> Martin that a new media type makes the most sense. Here we do not agree. I think that the advantages of specialized media types are rather minor. I am not aware of any complaints about the lack of specialized media types for W3C XML Schema. Cheers, -- MURATA Makoto Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FIGoJK034196; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:16:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5FIGow5034195; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:16:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from homer.w3.org ([128.30.52.30]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FIGniS034171 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:16:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@w3.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homer.w3.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFAA4EFE7; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:16:45 +0200 From: Chris Lilley Reply-To: Chris Lilley Organization: W3C X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <214189474.20050615201645@w3.org> To: MURATA Makoto Cc: Liam Quin , ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content In-Reply-To: <20050616025707.757E.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> References: <20050615092439.6964.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050615160508.GM1742@w3.org> <20050616025707.757E.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, June 15, 2005, 8:01:56 PM, MURATA wrote: Liam>> Liam>> > Then, why doesn't W3C register specialized media types for XSLT or Liam>> > W3C XML Schema? Is there some consensus in W3C? Liam>> Liam>> XSLT - I think application/xslt+xml is either registered or the Liam>> registration will be sent here for XSLT 2. MM> It is not registered at IANA. It is not *yet* registered (since it is not a Recommendation), but is in process. Please see http://www.w3.org/2002/06/registering-mediatype.html#Status and http://www.w3.org/2002/06/registering-mediatype.html#Planned -- Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org Chair, W3C SVG Working Group W3C Graphics Activity Lead Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FI1tfT028696; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:01:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5FI1t7Q028695; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:01:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail1.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.197]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FI1r2Z028661 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:01:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from murata@hokkaido.email.ne.jp) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (r113232.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [210.167.113.232]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9920B1AE02; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:01:52 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:01:56 +0900 From: MURATA Makoto To: Liam Quin Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <20050615160508.GM1742@w3.org> References: <20050615092439.6964.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050615160508.GM1742@w3.org> X-Mailer-Plugin: BkASPil for Becky!2 Ver.2.046 Message-Id: <20050616025707.757E.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.20.04 [ja] Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Liam> Liam> > Then, why doesn't W3C register specialized media types for XSLT or Liam> > W3C XML Schema? Is there some consensus in W3C? Liam> Liam> XSLT - I think application/xslt+xml is either registered or the Liam> registration will be sent here for XSLT 2. It is not registered at IANA. Cheers, -- MURATA Makoto Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FGnSsn012991; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:49:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5FGnStA012990; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:49:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bork.markbaker.ca (static-80-155.dsl.cuic.ca [216.126.80.155] (may be forged)) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FGnR3q012984 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:49:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from distobj@acm.org) Received: from mbaker by bork.markbaker.ca with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Dib5W-00031k-00; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:50:02 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:50:02 -0400 From: Mark Baker To: MURATA Makoto Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Message-ID: <20050615165002.GG20401@markbaker.ca> References: <20050611154009.266D.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050613152513.GF20401@markbaker.ca> <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 11:47:40PM +0900, MURATA Makoto wrote: > Mark> >And do you want to specify a > Mark> > specialized media type when you reference the embedded RNG? > Mark> > Mark> Ideally, yes, I think that would be valuable for the reasons I gave > Mark> before concerning layering and security. > Mark> > Mark> [1] http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/ > Mark> [2] http://www.markbaker.ca/2004/01/XmlDispatchTest/ > > You propose to use a specialized media type for a fragment and > to use a different media type for the entire resource. Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were referring to a separate media type for the embedded RNG itself, not for use by the referrer to that RNG. I wouldn't encourage the referrer to use a separate media type since it violates the principle that the server provided media type be authoritative in determining fragment identifier. I agree with your premise that a new media type for each new XML vocabulary is not a scalable, long-term solution. But neither do I think that application/xml is a solution. The work being done in the CDF WG may provide one, but for now though, I agree with Liam and Martin that a new media type makes the most sense. Mark. -- Mark Baker. Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA. http://www.markbaker.ca Coactus; Web-inspired integration strategies http://www.coactus.com Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FG5CFQ002108; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5FG5CSk002107; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:05:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from homer.w3.org ([128.30.52.30]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FG5B38002080 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:05:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from liam@w3.org) Received: by homer.w3.org (Postfix, from userid 16040) id D46024F128; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:05:08 -0400 From: Liam Quin To: MURATA Makoto Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Message-ID: <20050615160508.GM1742@w3.org> References: <20050615075541.6960.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050614235947.GL1742@w3.org> <20050615092439.6964.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050615092439.6964.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> X-Feet: bare, comfortable. happy and free! User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 09:45:04AM +0900, MURATA Makoto wrote: > Liam> I'd like to see a registration for the XML syntax simply because > Liam> it's useful today, despite the limitations. > > Then, why doesn't W3C register specialized media types for XSLT or > W3C XML Schema? Is there some consensus in W3C? XSLT - I think application/xslt+xml is either registered or the registration will be sent here for XSLT 2. I don't know the status for Schema offhand -- we're getting better, slowly :-) > Anyway, we can do nothing about a specialized media type for the RNG > XML syntax by November. Understood. Thanks for the reply. Liam -- Liam Quin, W3C XML Activity Lead, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ http://www.holoweb.net/~liam/ Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FBrS6B052456; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 04:53:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5FBrSGZ052455; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 04:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.reutershealth.com ([65.246.141.36]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5FBrQRV052408 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 04:53:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcowan@reutershealth.com) Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j5FBrF0r025782; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:53:14 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:53:14 -0400 From: "John.Cowan" To: Martin Duerst Cc: Liam Quin , MURATA Makoto , ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Message-ID: <20050615115313.GA2072@NYCMJCOWA2> References: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <187486099.20050614174033@w3.org> <20050615075541.6960.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050614235947.GL1742@w3.org> <6.0.0.20.2.20050615092831.073c7900@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20050615092831.073c7900@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Martin Duerst scripsit: > Also, Relax NG in XML syntax most probably may have provisions > of some sort about how to include other namespaces, e.g. for > documentation,... Indeed, arbitrary elements and attributes may appear in a RELAX NG document, provided they are in a namespace other than the RNG namespace. There is no specific wrapper element as there is in W3C XML Schema. The RNG documentation indeed provides for a documentation namespace as well as a namespace for recording DTD-specific information in order to make it possible to roundtrip DTDs through RNG. -- "Well, I'm back." --Sam John Cowan Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5F1CE4N082015; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:12:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5F1CEWY082014; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:12:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.194]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5F1C5lV081990 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:12:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp) Received: from scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.17]) by scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id j5F1BxC10872; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:11:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from nodnsquery(133.2.206.133) by scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via csmap id f8034afc_dd3b_11d9_9620_0030482532aa_18766; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:22:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from Spooler by it.aoyama.ac.jp (Mercury/32 v3.32) ID MO003E40; 15 Jun 05 10:16:15 +0900 Received: from spooler by it.aoyama.ac.jp (Mercury/32 v3.32); 15 Jun 05 10:15:58 +0900 Received: from EBOSHIIWA.it.aoyama.ac.jp (133.2.210.52) by it.aoyama.ac.jp (Mercury/32 v3.32) with ESMTP ID MG003E3A; 15 Jun 05 10:15:53 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20050615092831.073c7900@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:32:49 +0900 To: Liam Quin , MURATA Makoto From: Martin Duerst Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <20050614235947.GL1742@w3.org> References: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <187486099.20050614174033@w3.org> <20050615075541.6960.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050614235947.GL1742@w3.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: At 08:59 05/06/15, Liam Quin wrote: >But that should not stop us from using the existing infrastructure as >best and as helpfully as we can in the meantime. > >I'd like to see a registration for the XML syntax simply because >it's useful today, despite the limitations. I fully agree with Liam. I think the argument against registering a type for the XML syntax was based on the question "but what about pieces of this in another XML document?". Creating a type for a standalone Relax NG document in XML syntax, which allows people to label such documents if they can, does not exclude the use of Relax NG in XML syntax as part of other documents. Also, Relax NG in XML syntax most probably may have provisions of some sort about how to include other namespaces, e.g. for documentation,... Regards, Martin. Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5F0j4CC080651; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:45:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5F0j4TK080650; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:45:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail1.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.197]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5F0j3vs080643 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:45:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from murata@hokkaido.email.ne.jp) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (r113229.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [210.167.113.229]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899641C598; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:45:02 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:45:04 +0900 From: MURATA Makoto To: Liam Quin Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <20050614235947.GL1742@w3.org> References: <20050615075541.6960.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050614235947.GL1742@w3.org> X-Mailer-Plugin: BkASPil for Becky!2 Ver.2.046 Message-Id: <20050615092439.6964.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.20.04 [ja] Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Liam> I'd like to see a registration for the XML syntax simply because Liam> it's useful today, despite the limitations. Then, why doesn't W3C register specialized media types for XSLT or W3C XML Schema? Is there some consensus in W3C? Anyway, we can do nothing about a specialized media type for the RNG XML syntax by November. Cheers, -- MURATA Makoto Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5ENxrlK077921; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5ENxpgl077920; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:59:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from homer.w3.org ([128.30.52.30]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5ENxoIv077913 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:59:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from liam@w3.org) Received: by homer.w3.org (Postfix, from userid 16040) id B168D4EFA7; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:59:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:59:47 -0400 From: Liam Quin To: MURATA Makoto Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Message-ID: <20050614235947.GL1742@w3.org> References: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <187486099.20050614174033@w3.org> <20050615075541.6960.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050615075541.6960.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> X-Feet: bare, comfortable. happy and free! User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 08:06:36AM +0900, MURATA Makoto wrote: [...] > I have said that specialized media types for XML-based vocabularies are > ad-hoc solutions which do not work for multi-namespace documents Here I agree with you. The architectures clearly don't match at all: Internet media types simply don't work for this sort of document today. Mozilla Firefox is making this clear -- it supports XHTML with embedded MathML and SVG for example, in either order, and perhaps with XHTML and SVG and mathML inside the SVG... > and that proliferation of specialized media types blocks future use > of multi-namespace documents. I don't think it's blocking future use. I think in the long term we have to rethink how multi-namespace XML documents are handled. But that should not stop us from using the existing infrastructure as best and as helpfully as we can in the meantime. I'd like to see a registration for the XML syntax simply because it's useful today, despite the limitations. Best, Liam -- Liam Quin, W3C XML Activity Lead, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ http://www.holoweb.net/~liam/ Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5EN6ae9074984; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:06:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5EN6a9r074983; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:06:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail1.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.197]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5EN6ZZa074977 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:06:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from murata@hokkaido.email.ne.jp) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (r113229.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [210.167.113.229]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90ECD1BEEE for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:06:34 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:06:36 +0900 From: MURATA Makoto To: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content In-Reply-To: <187486099.20050614174033@w3.org> References: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <187486099.20050614174033@w3.org> X-Mailer-Plugin: BkASPil for Becky!2 Ver.2.046 Message-Id: <20050615075541.6960.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.20.04 [ja] Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Chris> Chris> MM> However, unless such significant changes are endorsed, I continue Chris> MM> to be very reluctant to register a specialized media type for Chris> MM> the RELAX NG XML syntax. Chris> Chris> I don't see how the issue of how/whether to point to a portion of an xml Chris> resource which happens to be in RNG, has *any* bearing on the issue of Chris> what media type to use when RNG is served as a stand-alone document, Chris> which is by far the typical case at the moment. There is no dependency Chris> there. I have said that specialized media types for XML-based vocabularies are ad-hoc solutions which do not work for multi-namespace documents and that proliferation of specialized media types blocks future use of multi-namespace documents. I thus see strong dependency. Chris> MM> After all, it is ISO/IEC JTC1/SC34 that is requesting the Chris> MM> registartion of a media type for the RELAX NG compact syntax. In its Chris> MM> last meeting, SC34 decided to request this media type, but did not Chris> MM> consider a specialized media type for the RELAX NG XML syntax. Chris> Chris> Chris> So, now I am asking them to consider it. Will you convey this request to Chris> them, or do I need to convey it by a more formal mechanism? I can formally raise this issue in the next SC34 meeting in November and can also informally contact SC34 members now. However, between now and Novembmer, SC34 WG1 can do nothing. ISO/IEC JTC1 has no mechanisms for making decisions other than formal meetings. Chris> MM> Since we are talking about Chris> MM> media types in the standard tree, the media type for the RNG compact Chris> MM> syntax can go to the IESG but that for the RNG XML syntax cannot. Chris> Chris> I don't follow your last point there. As far as a specialized media type for the RNG XML syntax in the standard tree is concerned, nothing can be done before November. Cheers, -- MURATA Makoto Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5EFeesM036695; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5EFeeS0036693; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:40:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from homer.w3.org ([128.30.52.30]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5EFec0v036685 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:40:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@w3.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homer.w3.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFFA4EF7B; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:40:33 +0200 From: Chris Lilley Reply-To: Chris Lilley Organization: W3C X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <187486099.20050614174033@w3.org> To: MURATA Makoto Cc: Mark Baker , ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content In-Reply-To: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> References: <20050611154009.266D.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050613152513.GF20401@markbaker.ca> <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, June 14, 2005, 4:47:40 PM, MURATA wrote: Mark>> >And do you want to specify a Mark>> > specialized media type when you reference the embedded RNG? Mark>> Mark>> Ideally, yes, I think that would be valuable for the reasons I gave Mark>> before concerning layering and security. Mark>> Mark>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/ Mark>> [2] http://www.markbaker.ca/2004/01/XmlDispatchTest/ MM> You propose to use a specialized media type for a fragment and MM> to use a different media type for the entire resource. It is a very MM> interesting idea. It might help the marriage between media types and MM> multi-namespace XML documents. But I do not think that MIME RFCs or MM> URI/IRI RFCs bless it (at least now). Media types have been intended MM> as values of the content-type field of MIME. MM> You might want to raise this issue in the W3C CDF WG or W3C TAG, and MM> you might even want to write an RFC that updates MIME RFCs or URI/IRI MM> RFCs. his is interesting, and speculative, future work. However, and not distracting from the original specific issue: MM> However, unless such significant changes are endorsed, I continue MM> to be very reluctant to register a specialized media type for MM> the RELAX NG XML syntax. I don't see how the issue of how/whether to point to a portion of an xml resource which happens to be in RNG, has *any* bearing on the issue of what media type to use when RNG is served as a stand-alone document, which is by far the typical case at the moment. There is no dependency there. MM> After all, it is ISO/IEC JTC1/SC34 that is requesting the MM> registartion of a media type for the RELAX NG compact syntax. In its MM> last meeting, SC34 decided to request this media type, but did not MM> consider a specialized media type for the RELAX NG XML syntax. So, now I am asking them to consider it. Will you convey this request to them, or do I need to convey it by a more formal mechanism? MM> Since we are talking about MM> media types in the standard tree, the media type for the RNG compact MM> syntax can go to the IESG but that for the RNG XML syntax cannot. I don't follow your last point there. -- Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org Chair, W3C SVG Working Group W3C Graphics Activity Lead Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5EElgCE031389; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5EElgs3031388; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:47:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail2.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.198]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5EElfwF031380 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from murata@hokkaido.email.ne.jp) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (r113229.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [210.167.113.229]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043BB1609B; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:47:40 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:47:40 +0900 From: MURATA Makoto To: Mark Baker Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <20050613152513.GF20401@markbaker.ca> References: <20050611154009.266D.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050613152513.GF20401@markbaker.ca> X-Mailer-Plugin: BkASPil for Becky!2 Ver.2.046 Message-Id: <20050614232431.C56F.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.20.04 [ja] Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Mark> >And do you want to specify a Mark> > specialized media type when you reference the embedded RNG? Mark> Mark> Ideally, yes, I think that would be valuable for the reasons I gave Mark> before concerning layering and security. Mark> Mark> [1] http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/ Mark> [2] http://www.markbaker.ca/2004/01/XmlDispatchTest/ You propose to use a specialized media type for a fragment and to use a different media type for the entire resource. It is a very interesting idea. It might help the marriage between media types and multi-namespace XML documents. But I do not think that MIME RFCs or URI/IRI RFCs bless it (at least now). Media types have been intended as values of the content-type field of MIME. You might want to raise this issue in the W3C CDF WG or W3C TAG, and you might even want to write an RFC that updates MIME RFCs or URI/IRI RFCs. However, unless such significant changes are endorsed, I continue to be very reluctant to register a specialized media type for the RELAX NG XML syntax. After all, it is ISO/IEC JTC1/SC34 that is requesting the registartion of a media type for the RELAX NG compact syntax. In its last meeting, SC34 decided to request this media type, but did not consider a specialized media type for the RELAX NG XML syntax. Since we are talking about media types in the standard tree, the media type for the RNG compact syntax can go to the IESG but that for the RNG XML syntax cannot. Cheers, -- MURATA Makoto Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5DFOkpf055035; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5DFOkGh055034; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:24:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bork.markbaker.ca (static-80-155.dsl.cuic.ca [216.126.80.155] (may be forged)) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5DFOjAm055025 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from distobj@acm.org) Received: from mbaker by bork.markbaker.ca with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1DhqoL-0004n8-00; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:25:13 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:25:13 -0400 From: Mark Baker To: MURATA Makoto Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Message-ID: <20050613152513.GF20401@markbaker.ca> References: <20050610075729.3CBD.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050610145517.GD11241@markbaker.ca> <20050611154009.266D.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050611154009.266D.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hey, On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 03:50:03PM +0900, MURATA Makoto wrote: > Mark> >Although > Mark> > your example can be addressed by specialized media types, my example > Mark> > (schemas embedded within XHTML are referenced by XPointer) cannot. > Mark> > Mark> Can you elaborate on that example please? I don't think I've seen any > Mark> schemas embedded in XHTML before. > > Consider the following XML document (say multi.xml). This example is not > artficial. It is useful for literate programming. As you know better > than me, W3C is trying to promote compound documents. Right. For those who weren't aware, the W3C has a Compound Document Formats WG[1] that is trying to address some of these issues. I'm on the WG as a representative of Justsystem Corp. > I would like to reference to the embedded RNG schema using multi.xml#rng. > What is the media type of this document? You could use the text/html or application/xhtml+xml media types. If fallback rendering was a problem, you could add some styling directives, or else just "display: None"-it and place an HTML description in there. Fragment identifiers would work as expected. You could use application/xml too, though as you know, you don't get fragment identifers. Also, IE doesn't make the same assumptions as other browsers[2], and will only display the tree view. Moreover, the interpretation made by these other browsers isn't licensed by RFC 3023; An XML document labeled as text/xml or application/xml might contain namespace declarations, stylesheet-linking processing instructions (PIs), schema information, or other declarations that might be used to suggest how the document is to be processed. For example, a document might have the XHTML namespace and a reference to a CSS stylesheet. Such a document might be handled by applications that would use this information to dispatch the document for appropriate processing. The CDF WG may or may not be defining a media type that is suitable for what you need (I can't say until we publish), but I can say with certainty that it isn't currently supported by any existing agent. 8-) If it were me, I'd go with text/html if there was a reasonable expectation that somebody with IE might want to plug a URI that returns one of these documents into their location bar. Otherwise I'd use application/xhtml+xml. >And do you want to specify a > specialized media type when you reference the embedded RNG? Ideally, yes, I think that would be valuable for the reasons I gave before concerning layering and security. [1] http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/ [2] http://www.markbaker.ca/2004/01/XmlDispatchTest/ Mark. -- Mark Baker. Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA. http://www.markbaker.ca Coactus; Web-inspired integration strategies http://www.coactus.com Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5B6nsiU030381; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id j5B6nsDn030380; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:49:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail1.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.197]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5B6nrnN030364 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from murata@hokkaido.email.ne.jp) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (r113253.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [210.167.113.253]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0E21B03C; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:49:52 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:50:03 +0900 From: MURATA Makoto To: Mark Baker Subject: Re: The role of media types for XML content Cc: ietf-xml-mime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <20050610145517.GD11241@markbaker.ca> References: <20050610075729.3CBD.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> <20050610145517.GD11241@markbaker.ca> X-Mailer-Plugin: BkASPil for Becky!2 Ver.2.046 Message-Id: <20050611154009.266D.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.20.04 [ja] Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Mark, Mark> >Although Mark> > your example can be addressed by specialized media types, my example Mark> > (schemas embedded within XHTML are referenced by XPointer) cannot. Mark> Mark> Can you elaborate on that example please? I don't think I've seen any Mark> schemas embedded in XHTML before. Consider the following XML document (say multi.xml). This example is not artficial. It is useful for literate programming. As you know better than me, W3C is trying to promote compound documents. I would like to reference to the embedded RNG schema using multi.xml#rng. What is the media type of this document? And do you want to specify a specialized media type when you reference the embedded RNG?