From nobody Mon Mar 1 00:39:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 625253A1822 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 00:39:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2BByO_cv0Sm0 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 00:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E0A53A1821 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 00:39:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614587945; bh=eyZq2aWbh3liN2HDnwsvnKUcRPYHp3S2xvZrSm/B0rA=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=L0gLWLjUnYD08+OHnc4gncTZn1EkWDvuwlR6iPUq802ZH7popr/1MDQaK0l5wWm89 E2YcE22Y+AfZJU+8H/KD59twZCek+mH6DZGVbBbHvp8hxDVCTWE8gQ6SjU8M00b+D+ /8zKOLuJtuPaMXrHU0nuynB0u07Ok0sR8w7Kzdp0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([91.61.54.12]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N17UW-1lwtTm1Hdy-012Unq for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 09:34:00 +0100 To: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 09:33:57 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:V2tCHMZUTfT2EyG7IKAscQHZT/1SLl09i9yPB84gO/Ag5ul+ZMo mPQ2gPXneSpWcv4NQQCFIbVkj4fYqwtR6bFzGXuZa+m4SuNCK7ukB5E9dqbKp/4nw+WmFVq sFBIU4L8XNGWOICIqXB6qCN7XNOchGiFEwQg+7Ge9AJX1f18tA9WEaI9m+5YBM3UqyMWpj6 Lx0d9v/v+S9jCTdRd2XeQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:x9m8qAezmlg=:RwI5tK9CXaEEr1ahfz59nb O45RXX8MPzUgoGcncVHiwgy1qRxXNRmd5ka8lJtr77p0b5QsP1PE/EB8U8ZaZqdSEMN7HnC9g DFg06l0BAJv3B0xTQ9j5o5wGlQgOAapPsEhQMSPhZUxxFosjukEDmMhBWShfTurj0JspD/T1s eH+qCjveJrGylgNz56pfhb3blQQQ17oH8TwsiqNHrSdlNBB4EPv+wjKUmrE5CMVqUsmCbKQ3K t/ZVOcRH/5sUtyPslGdsw5ATio3qHYQTH5aWd/O7MymCYo9lZVs7XeuuFHLMBCZmOwuFPRe+4 1mcLo9WpQou0sVXGF5qK43f39BsvVik7P12s/3b2hgD8rYk7ZANRZOVlyi6KyVWF07ZWfb/sW NggFIV8px8VApPjFu1GKHEFmV/g75gfOX7QFU/Xi9hQIrb67YKkkk6q5CRal11tgRSnEjMFBN JZLlLHzWRcUk+SZgnVjFJOEERvCbbuocNCxvjyu7oE1HXjucYV7BK/zqwzxor0+e1hpqQy16K UrvKtH9CQRMfYgHcJ2n+cN378O00kL5qiKUcKQrHLizvmUb7zypor+EV1CECFp/OpsOTUQwXC L83JnLRJQPDmBqaWp9fGSvOceUIR/wvuLCQazxO1Ubckl5LlbNjD9LprZ6lk5xh3Rjgo4mrY8 SdBExf+Q9H7xpZwnYhxdqfKmr2rzGIg6hWlV2oWzuF9qfu3nDx22Z0VALwe1NvwrwmY3B4Jvd U6uGNe54AZt2FV/6Pux6eTz+R7FCT0+mPMnYcGTQqAYP+fPzSpQWbSvHDElI8Cq/fF0c5+sbU +EHl05tQYQlXKIWjCS+qjgMu47szF05hWMAcu2A5tNfDXN+tCWwLscmwWZqoK6kUoJgFwLBL8 gt42ZvfGWjx0iIcYZN/Q== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 08:39:09 -0000 Am 28.02.2021 um 23:07 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > ... > So this is about sentence detection, not about sentence spacing. > (Which in turn can make use of sentence spacing in the input, but that i= s orthogonal.) > > I=E2=80=99m trying to understand why the traditional method doesn=E2=80= =99t work. > There is never any ambiguity with traditional keyboarding (a new line st= arts after a sentence); except that one has to be careful not to do an inp= ut line-break after [.!?] that is within a sentence. > > The question is whether there is a need to accommodate multiple sentence= s per input line for proper sentence detection. > People differ in their style here. > The newline after a sentence rule helps with version control as well, so= I have a strong preference for that style. > But for people who like running on on the same input line, the two-space= convention has been working well. > > XML may not "preserve whitespace=E2=80=9D, but what that exactly means h= ere is not clear to me. XML parsers *do* preserve whitespace in element contents. The tricky part is changing *applications* that use XML from one content model (whitespace is insignifant) to another model (whitespace is "mostly" insignificant) after the fact. I also fear that we'll end up with *other* edge cases then. For instance, if I have this source: PGP is a family of software systems developed by Philip R. Zimmermann from which OpenPGP is based. Is the "R." a sentence end? > Double spaces in XML input are copied verbatim into the HTML (where they= then are swallowed by the HTML processor), so it is not like the processo= r is not seeing them. But do they survive the preptool step? If so, that would IMHO be a bug. > ... Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Mar 1 02:51:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001363A19CA for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 02:51:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WJ_04cPfi9Jd for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 02:51:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 974863A19C9 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 02:51:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.123] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dpxrs2JPBz10D8; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 11:51:25 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 11:51:24 +0100 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 636288683.928151-1d02427c58d7326afe01332017d2c71a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <054319D6-2DC4-4A82-8017-E7F2F7AC839C@tzi.org> References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 10:51:36 -0000 On 2021-03-01, at 09:33, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > I also fear that we'll end up with *other* edge cases then. >=20 > For instance, if I have this source: >=20 > > PGP is a family of software systems developed by Philip R. > Zimmermann from which OpenPGP is based. > >=20 > Is the "R." a sentence end? Yes. Don=E2=80=99t do that then [1]. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: http://catb.org/esr/jargon/html/D/Don-t-do-that-then-.html From nobody Mon Mar 1 02:58:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC593A19DC for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 02:58:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KIme0g8NweCp for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 02:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BFBC3A19D9 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 02:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.123] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dpy0T3ND3zyVH; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 11:58:01 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 11:58:01 +0100 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 636289081.184101-40e95e185dfd06a14612fbe25ff9dc43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 10:58:07 -0000 On 2021-03-01, at 09:33, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >> Double spaces in XML input are copied verbatim into the HTML (where = they then are swallowed by the HTML processor), so it is not like the = processor is not seeing them. >=20 > But do they survive the preptool step? Sure. A quick check shows that https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8949.xml has = about 318 in-line sentence end marks, and 101 end-of-line ones (this may = or may not count ones at the end of paragraphs). > If so, that would IMHO be a bug. Can=E2=80=99t speak to that. I don=E2=80=99t think there is a canonical answer to that question in = the XML community. (This has been technical debt for a third of a century.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Mar 1 03:12:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A97483A1A09 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:12:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8G_NByER5qze for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D2203A1A08 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:12:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614597160; bh=NHT+D73thm3mVoNS6WJTexe138uMgWBbqZIfc21pjBM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=NoEWkZI6pJHFVkFFCY4LwfjF6e8xINambzfm31UR++ZD1xVc9OYIrwWX30/2WsuwM bWHSkciIIgYXO9VuSp8JUM+Z9rpJjoPPWMrU0GUo1oYRcyvcD/qMQ+p4efRDA7iPlj 10kEioTw/ripnyTwBkEjCjetXjzbpaWxdBoO4j38= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.236] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N49h5-1lymnu3Nlx-0104Eq; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 12:12:39 +0100 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 12:12:38 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:30H1CAnVQkcxCpuaNkl9el7006Nn4gKZX43+Ldu/pWtpTDyPoiu BlPJuedOqOq905EOJ4tDNXLZVvvS9827hn52WmA2nsVhH47C2OmdlthdyX34pvO5XdRjhba h0QHkQBc2ljnna5Ud4plvrRIChG1W84/v33tvQUqA6QmBjba+Wvf1dfW85X32EIruFokVoj AmGD1cVnlOMRJp7YRACpw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:rqUEhqGN5IA=:uJ5MMfFo5h8rLUfHdXJHUM 2cVOGW2Xn8UvOTqTHeyQ0m5fkHv1NGSurfwNqLe+BYt3hNQZkcTmkkeXvTIdFgo7l3/bc8kNp i+mnBp/MUAoTuMGW21ZDmdETjPn9HwJeh0f4rJE5tOdxb/81wEnv6T0Yn7HlsLUmW0ofV8+T3 hwgfA5PiWNpSY40tv2qDNWtMSAbnG8tjAyzQlbb6khGVOcJ6vLM764DQTqSbYoqNJ348CfEZh it6voR69KDb8ZSNVrv7aVujYILuRLOHmYe68KFHb+EF+8eWqzr2NMM4iCzsPPx/90PkE4K7cA SE4LwTe3S+Rlp9rpw/opRNkrPnDgvFmZGNAeQ9mdonKhfeND0GFz5ioR47mQwGe8IKjqXRfwW xJvdir5kEBmPZGanNvHoNNLLRecLhn3xrElmxhNdH9IEcbBtEWw3P9kg6mOESyvf4dndsUtwG qQ69oEEtWpUIfbFnvn4k+Zav259O097C/8JIL/x4DwZDgQSimpD/qEkgdlgfU9uN5VTmC6BYc CN159eXwRfl9mMXr7hNr+asD/1w1WnyxFMmQtyHG3kFYuaXMqEqCgu542SG1VijMShL9tE3Fs f2IKKnpvLX0w2skWyXxe08Mj1BFztUVDAs/GlbH+OuugnHJx4+j18eVdnKoUD9c/gdjbre2Co yXnmRFO5Z0qTMLtu/wxqpdjmGGmHqdwQKoKWkktMp/Tayh5vNHejxNVtzW2dgxVphGJzwutTi Y3VFoEtGVlTBg+kAkCCkgR+LUB85rLUMl8idPlSl2Y2gMp2HiTiO7wAmhOjGWiZwuc36pS0J1 rEbCul8XzKp2yzPbeBrti7fReZxweESPiK4jL9cL19duFKBwjMcRC3mVNbKMppA6hY7UAqD2S kEWdvZ3OTRuBmsBErECw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 11:12:54 -0000 Am 01.03.2021 um 11:58 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > On 2021-03-01, at 09:33, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >>> Double spaces in XML input are copied verbatim into the HTML (where th= ey then are swallowed by the HTML processor), so it is not like the proces= sor is not seeing them. >> >> But do they survive the preptool step? > > Sure. > > A quick check shows that https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8949.xml has = about 318 in-line sentence end marks, and 101 end-of-line ones (this may o= r may not count ones at the end of paragraphs). > >> If so, that would IMHO be a bug. > > Can=E2=80=99t speak to that. > ... I can only talk about what we *intended* to specify. The only elements in the V3 grammar which have an implied xml:space value of "preserve" are and . Thus, whitespace in any other element is not significant. That also means, that the preptool, when pretty-printing, should remove it (I might open a ticket for that). Changing the defaults for (and similar elements) *would* be a change. I'm not saying it can't be done, but given the fact that the Style Guide has removed the requirements for 2SP, and furthermore (the CMO is frequently referenced for RFC style questions), I would be surprised if there was willingness to do this. In any case: *if* the outcome was that we want to handle space-after-sentence-ends differently, we absolutely should do this in all output formats, not just plain text. Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Mar 1 03:19:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260913A1A2D for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:19:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YzycPgH5FtCV for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C2543A1A27 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.123] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DpyTc5G8VzyVM; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 12:19:48 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 12:19:48 +0100 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 636290387.255861-737b6b48fe6368e0a8015dde6c3637b2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 11:19:54 -0000 On 2021-03-01, at 12:12, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > The only elements in the V3 grammar which have an implied xml:space > value of "preserve"=20 What do you believe setting this to default does? If you can cite a specification, bonus points. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Mar 1 03:35:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0943A1A6F for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:35:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6BnUOPcLy0HX for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75BD23A1A6E for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:35:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614598490; bh=cyVoPDp31v2dKSJBwN5qdwrFc0BBQJG5f2SQjBJWXhc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Vp813IVjCv/aLb6cUrBxxHvlkYXRe0rSv0IEyreQkXZfqo9uZ7hBo8SQvNvp1+mW6 WZ0SzxL0/BZBzODq+dRNBHNn9xqZi570+hlsCocsnpN3Idtol7/nrFPF9LmdMA5p/w j0zB95TK1E9iV50HVgoLpq4MMTW01rdEhlKWLWcc= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.236] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MtOGU-1m4Xt1467a-00utVe; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 12:34:50 +0100 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <47edd9eb-6c96-aa9c-9709-73e054373d4a@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 12:34:49 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:+Hk9WAMeQW9qSe/XtZyFrWtVGlkklBOIvrY21EM1OnMn17lp00Z F6+QZOLw+colnC0D5+zv6wFEWxdNHlmZNSkS7mAL4zqQPU1u3JM7SaLHsXS2gmiE7n58RuU HzM7Ym+V6OwqhkJRf4JO73i3JsdKyRAAKUGy/1IOU3+XF3UVEaYl3Hso9uYljNpmEagytNp /tLgQx08nf9+A789Iknlg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Is/nSiiB8g0=:7RWZi2zL6oo8qbawXZ5pFj rdIJGyC2Tz2AFCQ4La45I4gIUJTAjSUS5Lcgc/E876EjwW7/1UDWGiUnoEFuwIU5LsEORted0 /LTsgvhZ7U2BLpiNplrdu3xMnR6P4pZD6H3h14vMw7/7XPB0WrQOYHm1CWotNMrOEZgmocE5a JREFw43OJkB7byoTTCVxBx7bRByjP/9jMdBulaMDAALleiqBymIvzsyxtlBarEZNS2/bba6MP t/LiTVFRVpRk/KdxJ0ziZwhgNA9kAiccRbFWrZSVXiVRQqihe6Cusp8uN9a0CtLBd57W8InB9 acdrFGDZArm2FKF4Nuk+Puts6Yu5+6co3MBGtGlFK4JOEtNFxqdmOvKPEb0HFMe+7K8Wlj9N2 iKe8FTa5AkmPnvo/haxnZWuZBUJbLMYOhbAtN2DK8gtOpovLMvp/3ifNUKzcB7eZ+9ttUZnva WTykU4PKe+HJCtabVa/i68oCEFbhXwGluzx87iYLX3etM5ASpS13dhS3jQqSBnKPHeBugqQzZ 00ZFZk/7fnHRUhinccXTIiUvsqZG+yVQ6mvPsOTg9v3y+hHc1DMFRumQBnNcMXUAEniY83Un4 exDYB13q8eGG5glhWkfeGdiXfN6V2XoEoRFkaflV2owiFCljWUumd+mWdOQWTsQ63J9w7t4U6 D03eDiZjAkXA7phijpLVO3arEPo8TaQDDIyy71hCygQh0E8SA8BZT1P53khbW4uGoBcvB/1VF ln4sClNcFGCIp0Fuo6n8V3LGZqwi3o70sSGx8CqyjwgE9ZjDtMkLqNFwdGQ/2IS9P5LKtMhrV A92yRXdOgbdezvHbloi7p8Q0ACy1RNyH6pAucXCZug2F/li8ZsBVWwGaaamWsN8ASQC7tAD6r FJEKDcYuLfJ0v3kvz5sg== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 11:35:03 -0000 Am 01.03.2021 um 12:19 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > On 2021-03-01, at 12:12, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >> The only elements in the V3 grammar which have an implied xml:space >> value of "preserve" > > What do you believe setting this to default does? > > If you can cite a specification, bonus points. That's why I used the term "intent". When RFC 7749 and 7791 were done, we already had a huge library of XML written against RFC 2629, and had at least three existing implementations. I'm not aware of any existing XML where whitespace inside was considered significant, nor did any of the implementations treat it this way. Speaking as author of RFC 7749 I can only said that it never ever occured to me that this might be unclear. Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Mar 1 03:59:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E7A93A1ACE for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:59:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6cMtsy1qM5Ms for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACB653A1AD0 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 03:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.123] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DpzM405zyzyVM; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 12:59:11 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <47edd9eb-6c96-aa9c-9709-73e054373d4a@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 12:59:11 +0100 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 636292751.393127-571627af1e86f05bac7cf0c35e35f4cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <40CE7C2C-65E7-4A4C-B16E-BA4ED62C6FF4@tzi.org> References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> <47edd9eb-6c96-aa9c-9709-73e054373d4a@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 11:59:17 -0000 On 2021-03-01, at 12:34, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > I'm not aware of any existing XML where whitespace > inside was considered significant, nor did any of the > implementations treat it this way. Idon=E2=80=99tthinkthattreatingwhitespaceasinsignificantisagreatidea. So what exactly *do* you mean? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Mar 1 04:16:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504BF3A1B0D for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:16:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TyxEbIqvkvvX for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F1F93A1B0C for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:16:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614600997; bh=mOPL0hYkQQ6I7/mOuEZz/fP+oFAPnpWJPOST9DpCTXw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=a7IV2/2nMn4IIpWFHWpGUqXz1QuCvtuWSjdk/U+sXup3yZxvmdCeFhKfOUoQdOZju zk5dBTxFpLruBlEfCzAVmGV09Gqlg0DE1U264vgZoPTi1tKs+oEGU3xFU91MPOZBIA SbH6YdjrRtjUJG4U1DbnmZFyGWNHclabKDUBehPI= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.236] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MKbkC-1lUvVY3xQi-00KuaM; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 13:16:37 +0100 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> <47edd9eb-6c96-aa9c-9709-73e054373d4a@gmx.de> <40CE7C2C-65E7-4A4C-B16E-BA4ED62C6FF4@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <39aac336-0032-5b11-7d64-e73ed314b79c@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 13:16:35 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <40CE7C2C-65E7-4A4C-B16E-BA4ED62C6FF4@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:18x/gIeIQDS2KiUZOoU2va/nhDDGOWOF1uaDmhwI3YRttbQYdtA Awty2wFb75+YEYqEn3dpWYEvkqp3rckffj5lCH4ree65EE1sGv02I618/e4H332a0QDrMzH ueepWXM51Qs1UDm15Gs40ugow9zaGRSYHuGJeaRdxBIhLZ6L9QB6gWZdVYXaZSzI58GG0Om oJqsOgKGdkGHfxGOIXRwg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:TbyY03RahNM=:IJSMQGlF0/nDLi/Kp9X1jU Sow2NYWqYRFFtStQkUqVzgwo/MsocOCgd9qDc/aLagg+bCxk8uvAnxqhF+48xSLjxAzZorVe7 OB7mQnaNaz0hRAzUupySM8xvVO5jcWUIuPsM88pAH2bm2m/X6z6nNhp2MqY3O6w094Mx3Uqsa 1z9KwgAuzat6wyZ4eqDHWIXqGAvFdJdqmloUPdSI1biJjlKbhay9bMDTDZYodbXE4CDpVHZ4q XLDcrZMQ/I9wsWLK7ET4PKuzna+NGeny5yMABrD73v0gLDB7QTM33jojzHUOFB7ipbVyZzNnj NLiwDZFP+uMQ9093X7PHBXsvOqia0LhbCZNg4i4Zv0ruwpT3iogJgfCz56CEj8pmF6Y60813J fwAlfdZZYtJH8kAkfliCT2kh0n1rtct6JEoSpKAT8UcnSTKQr4LsVkf4BHkny3kfD610I43QH t3TwwhUnAoePfCXo0gndujEPnDHZId6MNVJJPSSP7xnD3a+Mgf9xZAwb4WZSvbhM+28OrRWSq 38cyBwO7naDFJ3ZLkVDv88TeuSxB4ZOvDR1mo989f9sqBMee273BXBYJh/h3QMZ4VT2Ucv7JW vQRTH2qE67+sTRvF4dBKQ6FPJ4GWgFagEoni+wZ2w42KJcvN8m+tIiWASAAlf6T63IQb3nCHh KYIV44Jb/B658wm3poAL4BPpXC98hC5TKqmv7yZsfmHi2u7SWPlRIAIVNK/veQOOZnuqyqGV4 9dCOadMLEMhEmBXgJDAXppr6twhcd0o6drTcsaS9SF8E60pCQ6uNiBw/Fe5VH8RvPXNQdM64R RiabsSDqQ+KOV+/Cv1fdC4dY3R7LBN+aagUBXd2DzdKGPhRT+a5P6Vjrv2IX7B/0RuNzOBuhd dS3OZdGXPiNTWL45vHGQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 12:16:53 -0000 Am 01.03.2021 um 12:59 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > On 2021-03-01, at 12:34, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >> I'm not aware of any existing XML where whitespace >> inside was considered significant, nor did any of the >> implementations treat it this way. > > Idon=E2=80=99tthinkthattreatingwhitespaceasinsignificantisagreatidea. > > So what exactly *do* you mean? > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten It means that a sequence of whitespace characters can be collapsed to a single space character. Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Mar 1 04:46:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D5E63A1B6F for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:46:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.319 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.319 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SWELu9ZLLdYQ for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D1DC3A1B6C for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:46:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.123] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dq0PS5pZDzyV1; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 13:46:20 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <39aac336-0032-5b11-7d64-e73ed314b79c@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 13:46:20 +0100 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 636295580.1056091-98b99beb3c85e2067e86640a7a9d4e46 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> <47edd9eb-6c96-aa9c-9709-73e054373d4a@gmx.de> <40CE7C2C-65E7-4A4C-B16E-BA4ED62C6FF4@tzi.org> <39aac336-0032-5b11-7d64-e73ed314b79c@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 12:46:27 -0000 On 2021-03-01, at 13:16, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > It means that a sequence of whitespace characters can be collapsed to = a > single space character. That is XSLT normalize-space. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Mar 1 04:58:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7C33A1B8E for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:58:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SNxgEj_9IYIo for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6031E3A1B8B for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 04:58:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614603479; bh=IKSECQAWdJiOVbkMGVlhX32vwLIysGF6e+ervDMR9QU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=BEyI9SGYeADAPavsKryyR/VBzs4p4m20jr+g5+PmZRRjUvl7BBv5vYuiHN3Lbk9mf U3XD3wCzzeQAThj/TJOoV4sPjkp+6XF96eO5ZLTb34id7u8i6GPXxKeVC84LaPsgB5 n3gEqWLCzf4W6Lxol2NSZEz7V7Eyngt89GnS/TH0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.236] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mj8mb-1lkYks1G5d-00fCdp; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 13:57:59 +0100 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> <47edd9eb-6c96-aa9c-9709-73e054373d4a@gmx.de> <40CE7C2C-65E7-4A4C-B16E-BA4ED62C6FF4@tzi.org> <39aac336-0032-5b11-7d64-e73ed314b79c@gmx.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 13:57:58 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:f1aM4N3kqQMAjO3PUT/55+d/y7AYgGm6acVANAs7n4ZQLdWcF79 xA5ASgLy48JjwWEegyL1TtglTheDNO/svi2Uzal4LyTWvEGtgaNCWQ1s10U5D+o0MEIMzp5 1pHU9dRutU0w2fcfzfoMCIZGJSRB27WiyTaYYLAwOv06Ph0YAExQmDsk1seeZwVeLdD8aCn tC9o+uUCqyiwMKy2xt5BQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:iGpYsycI5oo=:n88AlQGZd81zBi54eL6qCx ZBUB/8uv52lHOyqzJ1aHKFJLo6a+iQ0M8biYaHsWUaqKijhRbgfNChwOhYiVZFEBBmsXTXIaI ns8i2Yqz3eSRPui0mf0aHBoHKO+19pj4xtfWOA5r/YHaFyGBAtG08uXAe6qoHYNrsRMFh6rQB a6Yu8sJTKGTJp/zj5cmQPNmvMkpfNzA4uppGukB6MGeQng8+3MRe12P/C7EUsRgmcbWeNmFvk mp/ksNAx9KEKE9XSIK/jVYtvBfTrzjFJcztXErcHNex5Ii6XfHSupYStyGtut9kgJuTirXrHp neAJ4CWDmDPSNbfwJhC1IzFAHAmN3yBthBb5p7jtfMWV+/FWT7yWvqWdUDT6AUr10DGvv1OZt jPu+GjtikcE4Oti49hDdsXuL1mwifxhwlAeX9HMmGQuo4Pt6IFs4PGhAW6HRlv+YrY1MJwImr yda7VNoAVoZFz3c1EUScQ5+df+zey/Ww+5SmM6umq9WFoT6Fowh6giVaO6fslUC5+cKiYGRbE y6u2BLywBfDpBU9kECQBx/1XW9vpLXP6yoU1ygX+ALT8xGCP5p89NpCgFUPs+wzoA7cv+C3DX XM0BqBtthsEMdWpbuE8Ucw5AoT7FFQaoJFHudFvlY9DfEOBLnlPebOZehezu0U8WWTUFxIX8J U58qDZINktieR0lHEWMoE9Ha4DY5VDmBzLVZnL6/4MO1yQ2TjnRNWVRcnBOFScbo7c4iqbwwp gfotOE/JSwMCbc+7+Y9U4PWtcFU9uBoIb0knAXCzazOGvxvXaLRlJwcLLtW3dd0+Bwq944EWD EJTkFPqXVHFIeFlBauDkrpoIK6/H5Yt0lbR8Qd6XgDCwO3XdYyLmrYidpGOO16bEempOMnvAO BrftOGykjgIvXLrglFHw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 12:58:12 -0000 Am 01.03.2021 um 13:46 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > On 2021-03-01, at 13:16, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >> It means that a sequence of whitespace characters can be collapsed to a >> single space character. > > That is XSLT normalize-space. XPATH, to be pedantic. It's not exactly the same thing in that leading / trailing space in content can be significant (at least if you consider it to apply to text child nodes of ). For instance, see is not equivalent to see At this point I'm not sure anymore what we're discussing here. If your point is that RFC 7991bis should be clearer about what XML calls the "default whitespace handling mode", I agree. Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Mar 1 05:19:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915E43A1BFB for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:19:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iDfB22pJbejL for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:19:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE50B3A1BF8 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.123] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dq17S2P9Yz10FZ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 14:19:16 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 14:19:16 +0100 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 636297555.988739-f186d67229c6469c8d54191635bc340f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3F93A1FB-0475-4DC5-96B1-A832880779CD@tzi.org> References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> <47edd9eb-6c96-aa9c-9709-73e054373d4a@gmx.de> <40CE7C2C-65E7-4A4C-B16E-BA4ED62C6FF4@tzi.org> <39aac336-0032-5b11-7d64-e73ed314b79c@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 13:19:23 -0000 On 2021-03-01, at 13:57, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > Am 01.03.2021 um 13:46 schrieb Carsten Bormann: >> On 2021-03-01, at 13:16, Julian Reschke = wrote: >>>=20 >>> It means that a sequence of whitespace characters can be collapsed = to a >>> single space character. >>=20 >> That is XSLT normalize-space. >=20 > XPATH, to be pedantic. >=20 > It's not exactly the same thing in that leading / trailing space in > content can be significant (at least if you consider it to apply to = text > child nodes of ). For instance, >=20 > see >=20 > is not equivalent to >=20 > see >=20 > At this point I'm not sure anymore what we're discussing here. I=E2=80=99m sorry, I=E2=80=99m trying to elicit what you think = xml:space=3Dpreserve does (or doesn=E2=80=99t that =3Ddefault does, = actually). It does not mesh with what I learned about XML. > If your point is that RFC 7991bis should be clearer about what XML = calls > the "default whitespace handling mode", I agree. Well, what *DOES* XML call the default whitespace handling mode? https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#sec-white-space > The value "default" signals that applications' default white-space = processing modes are acceptable for this element; the value "preserve" = indicates the intent that applications preserve all the white space. (This is in a context of: > In editing XML documents, it is often convenient to use "white space" = (spaces, tabs, and blank lines) to set apart the markup for greater = readability. Such white space is typically not intended for inclusion in = the delivered version of the document. On the other hand, "significant" = white space that should be preserved in the delivered version is common, = for example in poetry and source code. The intent certainly is not to get rid of all whitespace. There is no = talk about the whitespace normalization you have in mind, either.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Mar 1 05:36:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1B33A1C3A for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:36:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jY4gcw1yJakV for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7843A3A1C36 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:36:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614605759; bh=EP1Dum1JxQS/YMhrtUR4YwmkkdE4QlOKyiNN4u/XsnM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=jcutafqDkRQvxH5elHbuQVrTgwp7xRfZZ8w6FNDKjVr0KURzoryCU4W/ODTcb3q8q 3FJ3MWqVtyqeO45s5y2HgoAA0DcQhD7VDei8ceQQsREcIo++sxGuV1V8gtkuW+kFiW 3lkQsbwG35ZK9L5bAeBuuzSrkZN0632TPI2ZaD70= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.236] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MuUnK-1m7rX32wrK-00rcNb for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2021 14:35:59 +0100 To: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <20210227191644.165F76F105E2@ary.qy> <28B528D6-7CBA-4735-A5EE-C7061D1C1D0C@tzi.org> <3dc1abe5-24bf-3b12-7b58-d06c7cde428e@taugh.com> <6603926-561f-c9b8-2612-2afb9847b71@taugh.com> <20210228173825.GE30153@localhost> <14ad2b3e-852a-28b1-27ae-5e25ec7823bc@taugh.com> <26DCBA0D-AA14-461F-9992-CC631774877E@tzi.org> <45ca32a4-65df-7eea-84f0-b5451698a27b@gmx.de> <9C9F3CE7-E269-4BE4-A6FB-D13101D1927D@tzi.org> <47edd9eb-6c96-aa9c-9709-73e054373d4a@gmx.de> <40CE7C2C-65E7-4A4C-B16E-BA4ED62C6FF4@tzi.org> <39aac336-0032-5b11-7d64-e73ed314b79c@gmx.de> <3F93A1FB-0475-4DC5-96B1-A832880779CD@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <50c61df3-64e7-d81a-a955-ef2854f05919@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 14:35:59 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3F93A1FB-0475-4DC5-96B1-A832880779CD@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:q9ErkiJzoRxyELiyQTs+rXihgBzCDOmr7p9j4OKqzuflqez4X5k 7PmqKLFp2IAsgW+KpIRbHxhnnaI5b4a6L1Wa/TwSYUC9U0Mvr7hkLyCpx0PmNUFW+T5ua35 eBD1TWm7bURWny+GmeiB6U1Sd3U9wQA0pxvpbAvD2I8lGbY6eaj1ifBa3MFJzpdQly5m85o lOfxZXlzL6LBKjHFGfzgQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:sNuBXInKRqE=:YrDaW9Hqo/2F/2ueUAcujd ObHy+lSGUb6XiUByQReesR80xFJt3mBfkjf4VJe6F4pTZ2WQHZj1SaV9Rr8hH2SFOdwJzAXzL ynqvqe9+UX5SYm1spv+soJxawz+VjJ89GQc07U7b9iihyXExxVAOwZ5ral6UbqaloQyChL4A4 ASik1RbTbW+FQBO8/mK3BIX/Om4k4rbB+GnZgwF1l8wW6I5JR2OhFyLf+jZhp0m4gSEREV1+h jKWwPk+YeFdxwdBgxE+RC7l18rjHTTlEP0mMa92EMhHG2of6krgz/p+rn8vJXPSpcqt4zLHCk MBtFdIHzBJ1gwZqviH1pR9KiyUA2L8EhQP+sI8XSFXTRERp+sCplnGUjAmcnij9oJ2biWakZS igEYQODKEr3aiG/QuE1YDFAhQ8beA8NZ8+4/WvQxxnBgnREqZcR0RoL0hzc8eURU3Od1Tk3G+ ZBazwnV9eJRKa5MpIw+SU7OgGsxDCPzC97R8Nwwhir7m3PIGaB4q8OqmYU0S2g0ZAZD4rQ9dZ 0cTISDpGaj6YzZa4K7eE1g7Kq0Kut2Bh98E7NIFO7TuKQADpJZR7jirMkr9pFdXeGa4XVRQ4n zo80hssJqyD/HuzdDhfGnOBr06jwSrmHliapy0YTLAUQAKCojaKEFK7NfwjbNL9Alon/UvcrK Z2QU96IHQiMR93UEXmGpYDvqd/gO3I0hlxnxWKzXrEbaxnNlNhwGRlcDctcamVli/pFkexo/C ermdRSL23tjo9J9e0o8h1o3sItNzWC4VYVc5iyVY7NNXb/CAxCwRu7j49Xxjen/3HlbXk3O0Q HqU/k5Eyta0TZWDeHfDoHSJ5QEMvAJmg1DU5o1mD46Q0vHvQjmDHEqCYWiB3VYifAsO83mbzj nls3Jie5ZOCGEXeXQH5Q== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2021 13:36:06 -0000 Am 01.03.2021 um 14:19 schrieb Carsten Bormann: > On 2021-03-01, at 13:57, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >> Am 01.03.2021 um 13:46 schrieb Carsten Bormann: >>> On 2021-03-01, at 13:16, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>> >>>> It means that a sequence of whitespace characters can be collapsed to= a >>>> single space character. >>> >>> That is XSLT normalize-space. >> >> XPATH, to be pedantic. >> >> It's not exactly the same thing in that leading / trailing space in >> content can be significant (at least if you consider it to apply to tex= t >> child nodes of ). For instance, >> >> see >> >> is not equivalent to >> >> see >> >> At this point I'm not sure anymore what we're discussing here. > > I=E2=80=99m sorry, I=E2=80=99m trying to elicit what you think xml:space= =3Dpreserve does (or doesn=E2=80=99t that =3Ddefault does, actually). It = does not mesh with what I learned about XML. xml:space=3Dreserve: all whitespace is significant; as used in HTML's 
 element.

xml:space=3Ddefault: whatever the "application" deems significant (AFAICT
from the spec). In our case, the "application" is the xml2rfc processor.
Also, AFAICT, when M. T. Rose developed this, he used the same
processing model as HTML.

>> If your point is that RFC 7991bis should be clearer about what XML call=
s
>> the "default whitespace handling mode", I agree.
>
> Well, what *DOES* XML call the default whitespace handling mode?
>
> https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#sec-white-space
>
>> The value "default" signals that applications' default white-space proc=
essing modes are acceptable for this element; the value "preserve" indicat=
es the intent that applications preserve all the white space.
>
>
> (This is in a context of:
>
>> In editing XML documents, it is often convenient to use "white space" (=
spaces, tabs, and blank lines) to set apart the markup for greater readabi=
lity. Such white space is typically not intended for inclusion in the deli=
vered version of the document. On the other hand, "significant" white spac=
e that should be preserved in the delivered version is common, for example=
 in poetry and source code.
>
> The intent certainly is not to get rid of all whitespace.  There is no t=
alk about the whitespace normalization you have in mind, either.)
> ...

Yes. Again, if your point is that the default handling should be
described in RFC 7991bis, I'm totally with you.

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Mon Mar  1 05:55:32 2021
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To: Julian Reschke 
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong
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On 2021-03-01, at 14:35, Julian Reschke  wrote:
>=20
> Also, AFAICT, when M. T. Rose developed this, he used the same
> processing model as HTML.

Right, which is fine with me.  My copy of xml2rfcv1 also does sentence =
spacing, pretty much on the model that I described.

My point is that nothing in XML or existing specifications speaks =
against sentence detection and sentence spacing.  The setting of =
xml:space is completely irrelevant, as the handling of whitespace is =
left to the application in either case.

(This does not prejudice whether we want to do sentence spacing in the =
future, of course.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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From: Nico Williams 
To: Carsten Bormann 
Cc: Julian Reschke , xml2rfc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong
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On Mon, Mar 01, 2021 at 02:55:24PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On 2021-03-01, at 14:35, Julian Reschke  wrote:
> > 
> > Also, AFAICT, when M. T. Rose developed this, he used the same
> > processing model as HTML.
> 
> Right, which is fine with me.  My copy of xml2rfcv1 also does sentence
> spacing, pretty much on the model that I described.
> 
> My point is that nothing in XML or existing specifications speaks
> against sentence detection and sentence spacing.  The setting of
> xml:space is completely irrelevant, as the handling of whitespace is
> left to the application in either case.

Thanks for clarifying that for everyone.

> (This does not prejudice whether we want to do sentence spacing in the
> future, of course.)

Agreed.

IMO it would be good to have at least a way to handle the cases where no
extra spacing hurts readability, and to assume they are few and rare.

Nico
-- 


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From: Julian Reschke 
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] assuming that period (.) ends a sentence is sometimes wrong
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Am 01.03.2021 um 14:55 schrieb Carsten Bormann:
> On 2021-03-01, at 14:35, Julian Reschke  wrote:
>>
>> Also, AFAICT, when M. T. Rose developed this, he used the same
>> processing model as HTML.
>
> Right, which is fine with me.  My copy of xml2rfcv1 also does sentence s=
pacing, pretty much on the model that I described.
>
> My point is that nothing in XML or existing specifications speaks agains=
t sentence detection and sentence spacing.  The setting of xml:space is co=
mpletely irrelevant, as the handling of whitespace is left to the applicat=
ion in either case.
>
> (This does not prejudice whether we want to do sentence spacing in the f=
uture, of course.)
> ...

-> 

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: [xml2rfc] =?utf-8?b?UXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQg4oCcdG9jSW5jbHVkZeKAnSBp?= =?utf-8?q?n_xml2rfc?=
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I have an Internet Draft that is quite short and doesn=E2=80=99t need a =
Table of Contents.

In the XML source, I set

    tocInclude=3D"false"

but when I try to build it using xml2rfc 3.5.0 I get the errors below.

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "/Users/cheshire/Library/Python/3.7/bin/xml2rfc", line 8, in =

        sys.exit(main())
      File =
"/Users/cheshire/Library/Python/3.7/lib/python/site-packages/xml2rfc/run.p=
y", line 739, in main
        writer.write(filename)
      File =
"/Users/cheshire/Library/Python/3.7/lib/python/site-packages/xml2rfc/write=
rs/text.py", line 343, in write
        text =3D self.process()
      File =
"/Users/cheshire/Library/Python/3.7/lib/python/site-packages/xml2rfc/write=
rs/text.py", line 300, in process
        self.add_pageno_placeholders()
      File =
"/Users/cheshire/Library/Python/3.7/lib/python/site-packages/xml2rfc/write=
rs/text.py", line 372, in add_pageno_placeholders
        for e in toc.xpath('.//xref[2]'):
    AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute =E2=80=98xpath=E2=80=
=99

I tried using draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml (downloaded from =
) and got the =
same problem. When I change =E2=80=9CtocInclude=E2=80=9D from =E2=80=9Ctru=
e=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cfalse=E2=80=9D it gives the same errors.

If I try using the web-based tool at  I =
get the same errors. The original draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml file =
works; when I change =E2=80=9CtocInclude=E2=80=9D from =E2=80=9Ctrue=E2=80=
=9D to =E2=80=9Cfalse=E2=80=9D it gives the same errors.

Any hints on how to fix this?

Stuart Cheshire


From nobody Wed Mar  3 21:03:00 2021
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From: Stuart Cheshire 
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc]  =?utf-8?b?UXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQg4oCcdG9jSW5jbHVkZeKAnSBp?= =?utf-8?q?n_xml2rfc?=
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I may have just found the solution myself.

The error message said =E2=80=9Cobject has no attribute =E2=80=98xpath=E2=80=
=99 in add_pageno_placeholders.=E2=80=9D

I added a single =E2=80=9Cif=E2=80=9D statement so that it doesn=E2=80=99t=
 try to get toc.xpath for a document that has no TOC. That seemed to fix =
it.

  % diff -u text-orig.py text.py  =20
  --- text-orig.py    2021-03-03 19:58:39.000000000 -0800
  +++ text.py         2021-03-03 20:50:34.000000000 -0800
  @@ -369,8 +369,9 @@

       def add_pageno_placeholders(self):
           toc =3D self.root.find('./front/toc/section')
  -        for e in toc.xpath('.//xref[2]'):
  -            e.set('pageno', '0000')
  +        if toc:
  +            for e in toc.xpath('.//xref[2]'):
  +                e.set('pageno', '0000')

       def paginate(self, lines):
           """

Stuart Cheshire


From nobody Wed Mar  3 23:46:25 2021
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Am 04.03.2021 um 06:02 schrieb Stuart Cheshire:
> I may have just found the solution myself.
>
> The error message said =E2=80=9Cobject has no attribute =E2=80=98xpath=
=E2=80=99 in add_pageno_placeholders.=E2=80=9D
>
> I added a single =E2=80=9Cif=E2=80=9D statement so that it doesn=E2=80=
=99t try to get toc.xpath for a document that has no TOC. That seemed to f=
ix it.
>
>    % diff -u text-orig.py text.py
>    --- text-orig.py    2021-03-03 19:58:39.000000000 -0800
>    +++ text.py         2021-03-03 20:50:34.000000000 -0800
>    @@ -369,8 +369,9 @@
>
>         def add_pageno_placeholders(self):
>             toc =3D self.root.find('./front/toc/section')
>    -        for e in toc.xpath('.//xref[2]'):
>    -            e.set('pageno', '0000')
>    +        if toc:
>    +            for e in toc.xpath('.//xref[2]'):
>    +                e.set('pageno', '0000')
>
>         def paginate(self, lines):
>             """
>
> Stuart Cheshire

-> 

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc]  =?utf-8?b?UXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQg4oCcdG9jSW5jbHVkZeKAnSBp?= =?utf-8?q?n_xml2rfc?=
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On 3 Mar 2021, at 23:46, Julian Reschke  wrote:

> -> 
> 
> Best regards, Julian

Thanks.



Stuart Cheshire


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From: Greg Mirsky 
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2021 06:01:53 -0800
Message-ID: 
To: Carsten Bormann 
Cc: Julian Reschke , XML2RFC Interest Group 
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple email addresses in 

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Hi Carsten,
I finally got to try two emails and use XML only. I'm afraid it considered
not valid:

draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03.xml: Line 24: Element address content does not
follow the DTD, expecting (postal? , phone? , facsimile? , email? , uri?),
got (postal email email )

I believe I've seen two email addresses listed in a draft, just don't know
how to make it work.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 4:56 PM Carsten Bormann  wrote:

> On 22. Feb 2021, at 23:34, Greg Mirsky  wrote:
>
>
> Hi Carsten,
> after I try to use https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/
>
>
> What do you submit?  XML or TXT (or both)?
>
> Since you mentioned the word =E2=80=9Cmetadata=E2=80=9D, I=E2=80=99m gues=
sing that you were
> submitting TXT and the metadata extractor choked.
> Try submitting XML (only!).
>
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>
>

--000000000000eecc6305bd06e0d1
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Hi Carsten,
I finally got to try two emails and use XM=
L only. I'm afraid it considered not valid:
draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03.xml=
: Line 24: Element address content does not follow the DTD, expecting (post=
al? , phone? , facsimile? , email? , uri?), got (postal email email )
=

I believe I've seen two email addresses listed in a draft,=
 just don't know how to make it work.

Regards,
=

Greg

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 4:56 PM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 22. Feb 2021, at 23:34, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Carsten,
after =
I try to use=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/

What do you submit?=C2=A0 XML or TXT (or both)?

Since you mentioned the word =E2=80=9Cmetadata=E2=80=
=9D, I=E2=80=99m guessing that you were submitting TXT and the metadata ext=
ractor choked.
Try submitting XML (only!).

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten



--000000000000eecc6305bd06e0d1--


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From: Julian Reschke 
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Am 08.03.2021 um 15:01 schrieb Greg Mirsky:
> Hi Carsten,
> I finally got to try two emails and use XML only. I'm afraid it
> considered not valid:
>
>     draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03.xml: Line 24: Element address content does
>     not follow the DTD, expecting (postal? , phone? , facsimile? ,
>     email? , uri?), got (postal email email )
>
> I believe I've seen two email addresses listed in a draft, just don't
> know how to make it work.
>
> Regards,
> Greg

Is this a v2 or a v3 document? What version of xml2rfc? What's the
command line?

Best regards, Julian


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From: Greg Mirsky 
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2021 06:21:00 -0800
Message-ID: 
To: Julian Reschke 
Cc: XML2RFC Interest Group 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004e8a3f05bd07251e"
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple email addresses in 

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Hi Julian,
I've tried submitting TXT format along with XML before. The tool complained
about the metadata. This time I've submitted only the XML. All is done
through the web-portal.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 6:08 AM Julian Reschke  wrote:

> Am 08.03.2021 um 15:01 schrieb Greg Mirsky:
> > Hi Carsten,
> > I finally got to try two emails and use XML only. I'm afraid it
> > considered not valid:
> >
> >     draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03.xml: Line 24: Element address content does
> >     not follow the DTD, expecting (postal? , phone? , facsimile? ,
> >     email? , uri?), got (postal email email )
> >
> > I believe I've seen two email addresses listed in a draft, just don't
> > know how to make it work.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
>
> Is this a v2 or a v3 document? What version of xml2rfc? What's the
> command line?
>
> Best regards, Julian
>
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>

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Hi Julian,
I've tried submitting TXT format along =
with XML before. The tool complained about the metadata. This time I've=
 submitted only the XML. All is done through the web-portal.

=

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 6:08 AM Juli=
an Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.=
de> wrote:
xml2rfc@ietf.org<=
br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc




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To: Greg Mirsky 
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From: Julian Reschke 
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple email addresses in 

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Am 08.03.2021 um 15:21 schrieb Greg Mirsky:
> Hi Julian,
> I've tried submitting TXT format along with XML before. The tool
> complained about the metadata. This time I've submitted only the XML.
> All is done through the web-portal.
>
> Regards,
> Greg

What exactly is in the XML file?

Best regards, Julian


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From: Stewart Bryant 
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In-Reply-To: 
Cc: Stewart Bryant , Julian Reschke , XML2RFC Interest Group 
To: Greg Mirsky 
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple email addresses in 

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I have only wanted two emails so I could do email migration. I did this =
by listing myself twice as an author.

- Stewart

> On 8 Mar 2021, at 14:21, Greg Mirsky  wrote:
>=20
> Hi Julian,
> I've tried submitting TXT format along with XML before. The tool =
complained about the metadata. This time I've submitted only the XML. =
All is done through the web-portal.
>=20
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 6:08 AM Julian Reschke > wrote:
> Am 08.03.2021 um 15:01 schrieb Greg Mirsky:
> > Hi Carsten,
> > I finally got to try two emails and use XML only. I'm afraid it
> > considered not valid:
> >
> >     draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03.xml: Line 24: Element address content =
does
> >     not follow the DTD, expecting (postal? , phone? , facsimile? ,
> >     email? , uri?), got (postal email email )
> >
> > I believe I've seen two email addresses listed in a draft, just =
don't
> > know how to make it work.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
>=20
> Is this a v2 or a v3 document? What version of xml2rfc? What's the
> command line?
>=20
> Best regards, Julian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org 
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc =

> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc


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I =
have only wanted two emails so I could do email migration. I did this by =
listing myself twice as an author.

- Stewart

On 8 Mar 2021, at 14:21, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Julian,
I've tried submitting TXT format =
along with XML before. The tool complained about the metadata. This time =
I've submitted only the XML. All is done through the =
web-portal.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 6:08 AM Julian Reschke =
<julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 08.03.2021 um 15:01 schrieb Greg =
Mirsky:

> Hi Carsten,

> I finally got to try two emails and use XML only. I'm afraid it

> considered not valid:

>

>     draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03.xml: Line 24: Element =
address content does

>     not follow the DTD, expecting (postal? , phone? =
, facsimile? ,

>     email? , uri?), got (postal email email )

>

> I believe I've seen two email addresses listed in a draft, just =
don't

> know how to make it work.

>

> Regards,

> Greg



Is this a v2 or a v3 document? What version of xml2rfc? What's the

command line?



Best regards, Julian



_______________________________________________

xml2rfc mailing list

xml2rfc@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc



_______________________________________________
xml2rfc =
mailing list
xml2rfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc

=

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From: Greg Mirsky 
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2021 07:11:03 -0800
Message-ID: 
To: Stewart Bryant 
Cc: Julian Reschke , XML2RFC Interest Group 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004ce29605bd07d89d"
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple email addresses in 

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--0000000000004ce29605bd07d89d
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Hi Stewart,
Julian helped me to arrive to the following:

Now it works with two  lines.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 7:06 AM Stewart Bryant 
wrote:

> I have only wanted two emails so I could do email migration. I did this by
> listing myself twice as an author.
>
> - Stewart
>
> On 8 Mar 2021, at 14:21, Greg Mirsky  wrote:
>
> Hi Julian,
> I've tried submitting TXT format along with XML before. The tool
> complained about the metadata. This time I've submitted only the XML. All
> is done through the web-portal.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 6:08 AM Julian Reschke 
> wrote:
>
>> Am 08.03.2021 um 15:01 schrieb Greg Mirsky:
>> > Hi Carsten,
>> > I finally got to try two emails and use XML only. I'm afraid it
>> > considered not valid:
>> >
>> >     draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03.xml: Line 24: Element address content does
>> >     not follow the DTD, expecting (postal? , phone? , facsimile? ,
>> >     email? , uri?), got (postal email email )
>> >
>> > I believe I've seen two email addresses listed in a draft, just don't
>> > know how to make it work.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Greg
>>
>> Is this a v2 or a v3 document? What version of xml2rfc? What's the
>> command line?
>>
>> Best regards, Julian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xml2rfc mailing list
>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>>
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>
>
>

--0000000000004ce29605bd07d89d
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Stewart,
Julian helped=C2=A0me to arrive to the fol=
lowing:
<rfc xmlns:xi=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude" category=3D"std&=
quot; docName=3D"draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03" ipr=3D"trust20090=
2" obsoletes=3D"" updates=3D"" submissionType=3D&q=
uot;IETF" xml:lang=3D"en" tocInclude=3D"true" tocD=
epth=3D"3" symRefs=3D"true" sortRefs=3D"true"=
 version=3D"3">
Now it works with two <email/=
> lines.

Regards,
Greg
On Mon, M=
ar 8, 2021 at 7:06 AM Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:
I have only wanted two emails so I could do email migration. I did this by=
 listing myself twice as an author.

- Stewart

On 8 Mar 2021, at 14:21, Greg Mirsky =
<gregimirsky@=
gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Julian,
I=
9;ve tried submitting TXT format along with XML before. The tool complained=
 about the metadata. This time I've submitted only the XML. All is done=
 through the web-portal.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 6:08 AM Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:<=
br>
Am 08.03.2021 um=
 15:01 schrieb Greg Mirsky:

> Hi Carsten,

> I finally got to try two emails and use XML only. I'm afraid it
> considered not valid:

>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03.xml: Line 24: Element addr=
ess content does

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0not follow the DTD, expecting (postal? , phone? , f=
acsimile? ,

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email? , uri?), got (postal email email )

>

> I believe I've seen two email addresses listed in a draft, just do=
n't

> know how to make it work.

>

> Regards,

> Greg



Is this a v2 or a v3 document? What version of xml2rfc? What's the

command line?



Best regards, Julian



_______________________________________________

xml2rfc mailing list

xml2rfc@ietf.org<=
br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc



_______________________________________________
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On 2021-03-08, at 16:11, Greg Mirsky  wrote:
>=20
> Now it works with two  lines.

It is somewhat suboptimal that these relaxations of the v3.rnc were not =
grandfathered into the v2 support.

I know, v2 is our IPv4, but the problem is that people don=E2=80=99t =
know they need to change their documents to be somewhat v3 compliant to =
get the v3 features.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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Am 08.03.2021 um 16:11 schrieb Greg Mirsky:
> Hi Stewart,
> Julian helped=C2=A0me to arrive to the following:
>  " category=3D"std"
> docName=3D"draft-mirsky-ippm-epm-03" ipr=3D"trust200902" obsoletes=3D""
> updates=3D"" submissionType=3D"IETF" xml:lang=3D"en" tocInclude=3D"true"
> tocDepth=3D"3" symRefs=3D"true" sortRefs=3D"true" version=3D"3">
> Now it works with two  lines.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
> ...

...where the important bit is

   version=3D"3"

Best regards, Julian


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Am 08.03.2021 um 16:37 schrieb Carsten Bormann:
> On 2021-03-08, at 16:11, Greg Mirsky  wrote:
>>
>> Now it works with two  lines.
>
> It is somewhat suboptimal that these relaxations of the v3.rnc were not =
grandfathered into the v2 support.
> ...

That's essentially true for *everything* in v3, for xml2rfc.

The original idea was that a v3 processor would accept *all* of v2
(that's why we did *deprecate* things in the spec, not *remove* them).
Unfortunately, the v2 and v3 modes in xml2rfc are entirely different
code paths, and you can't easily mix new stuff with elements that were
deprecated.

Best regards, Julian


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On 2021-03-08, at 17:20, Julian Reschke  wrote:
>=20
> Am 08.03.2021 um 16:37 schrieb Carsten Bormann:
>> On 2021-03-08, at 16:11, Greg Mirsky  wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Now it works with two  lines.
>>=20
>> It is somewhat suboptimal that these relaxations of the v3.rnc were =
not grandfathered into the v2 support.
>> ...
>=20
> That's essentially true for *everything* in v3, for xml2rfc.
>=20
> The original idea was that a v3 processor would accept *all* of v2
> (that's why we did *deprecate* things in the spec, not *remove* them).
> Unfortunately, the v2 and v3 modes in xml2rfc are entirely different
> code paths, and you can't easily mix new stuff with elements that were
> deprecated.

I understand that (and agree) there was a desire to preserve the v2 =
codepaths in xml2rfc as a safety measure.

However, the xml2rfc migration path works very well when --v3 is given =
to xml2rfc.
All v2 constructions (with very few bugs) are supported well by the v2v3 =
converter.

The problem is in the way the submission interface treats its input.

I haven=E2=80=99t checked the code, but it seems it does a v3 =
conformance check and only uses the --v3 mode if that succeeds.  But =
that is not the way the =E2=80=9Cv2 with some v3=E2=80=9D documents look =
like.  These also should be treated with --v3, but they aren=E2=80=99t.

Again, running the v2 code paths from the submission interface may =
initially have been a prudent safety hedge, but by now it is creating =
more way more damage than it helps.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


From nobody Wed Mar 17 11:10:22 2021
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 19:09:59 +0100
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Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v3.6.0
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Hi,

This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, 
v3.6.0, generated when running the mkrelease script.

Release notes:

xml2rfc (3.6.0) ietf; urgency=medium

  ** Add pagination, bugfixes, drops Python 3.5 **

  * Merged in [3899] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
    Prevent crash when column count varies between table rows. Fixes #512.

  * Merged in [3898] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
    Cite the abstract as 'Abstract' instead of 'Appendix Abstract'. 
    Fixes #429.

  * Merged in [3893] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
    Modify selector to include rfc element in yes/no to true/false conversion.
    Fixes #457.

  * Merged in [3892] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
    Move conjunctions out of author  elements in reference citations.
    Fixes #575.

  * Merged in [3891] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
    Remove quotes from  in text writer. Fixes #563.

  * Merged in [3890] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
    Label xref to a cref with the anchor instead of 'Section X.Y'. Fixes #431.

  * Merged in [3887] and [3889] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
    Simplify text rendering of super/subscripts. Based on patch submitted by
     and refinement from subsequent list discussion.
    Fixes #590.

  * moved away test targets for untested versions of python

  * Merged in [3886] from mark@painless-security.com:
    Remove pilcrows from tables of contents In addition to searching list item
    descendants for the existence of previously-added pilcrows, the code now 
    also searches the list item ancestors for any node that has the 'toc' 
    class to indicate that it is part of a table of contents.  If either are
    found, the pilcrow is not added.  Fixes #568.

  * Merged in [3877] and [3878] from henrik@levkowetz.com:
    Made a --paginate/--pagination switch available, to force pagination for
    text output.

  * Merged in [3876] from henrik@levkowetz.com:
    Adjusted li > p margin to fit better with other list spacing, and to not
    let the 
 margin spill out from inside a 
  • .  FIxes issue #580.

  * Drop python 35 from tests

  * Updated manpage.txt and docfiles

 -- Robert Sparks   17 Mar 2021 18:53:29 +0100

The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
manually.

The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
  'svn checkout https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/3.6.0'

Documentation for this release is built-in, and also available at:
  https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/xml2rfc-doc-3.6.0.html

Regards,

	Robert Sparks
	(via the mkrelease script)


From lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net  Sun Mar 21 05:08:16 2021
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From: "lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net" 
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Subject: [xml2rfc] odd errors with online daft xml parsing
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On a pretty much complete xmlv2 draft that I've been successfully parsing t=
o a text document
previously with the web form at:
http://xml2rfc.ietf.org

Now gives the below error. Seems quite terminal.

Generating output
Running id2xml-rfc2629
Converting 'INPUT'

INPUT(77): Exception: Runaway loop in
=C2=A0=C2=A0 get_first_page_top()
Failure converting INPUT: Runaway loop in get_first_page_top()
Traceback (most recent call last):
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/bin/id2xml", line 11, in 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0load_entry_point('id2xml=3D=3D1.5.0', 'console_scri=
pts', 'id2xml')()
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/run.py", li=
ne 233, in run
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0xml =3D parser.parse_to_xml()
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py",=
 line 1012, in parse_to_xml
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0doc =3D self.document()
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py",=
 line 1041, in document
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0self.root.append(self.front())
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "", line 2, in front
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py",=
 line 599, in dtrace
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0ret =3D fn(self, *params,**kwargs)
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py",=
 line 1076, in front
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0lines_left, lines_right, lines_title, lines_name =
=3D self.get_first_page_top()
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "", line 2, in get_first_page_top
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py",=
 line 599, in dtrace
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0ret =3D fn(self, *params,**kwargs)
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py",=
 line 1210, in get_first_page_top
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0loops +=3D 1 if loops < 68 else loop_break('get_fir=
st_page_top')
=C2=A0=C2=A0File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py",=
 line 115, in loop_break
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0raise RunawayLoop("Runaway loop in %s()" % fn)
id2xml.parser.RunawayLoop: Runaway loop in get_first_page_top()

fyi

Lloyd Wood
lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net


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On 2021-03-21, at 13:08, lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
>=20
> Running id2xml-rfc2629

What are you feeding to id2xml?  This is meant to get a text I-D and =
return RFCXML.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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To: xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <963752303.4197045.1616328484728.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <963752303.4197045.1616328484728@mail.yahoo.com>
From: Paul Kyzivat 
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Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 12:13:27 -0400
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] odd errors with online daft xml parsing
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X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 16:13:37 -0000

Its because your xml is daft. :-)

On 3/21/21 8:08 AM, lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
> On a pretty much complete xmlv2 draft that I've been successfully parsing to a text document
> previously with the web form at:
> http://xml2rfc.ietf.org
> 
> Now gives the below error. Seems quite terminal.
> 
> Generating output
> Running id2xml-rfc2629
> Converting 'INPUT'
> 
> INPUT(77): Exception: Runaway loop in
>     get_first_page_top()
> Failure converting INPUT: Runaway loop in get_first_page_top()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/usr/local/bin/id2xml", line 11, in 
>      load_entry_point('id2xml==1.5.0', 'console_scripts', 'id2xml')()
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/run.py", line 233, in run
>      xml = parser.parse_to_xml()
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py", line 1012, in parse_to_xml
>      doc = self.document()
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py", line 1041, in document
>      self.root.append(self.front())
>    File "", line 2, in front
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py", line 599, in dtrace
>      ret = fn(self, *params,**kwargs)
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py", line 1076, in front
>      lines_left, lines_right, lines_title, lines_name = self.get_first_page_top()
>    File "", line 2, in get_first_page_top
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py", line 599, in dtrace
>      ret = fn(self, *params,**kwargs)
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py", line 1210, in get_first_page_top
>      loops += 1 if loops < 68 else loop_break('get_first_page_top')
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/id2xml/parser.py", line 115, in loop_break
>      raise RunawayLoop("Runaway loop in %s()" % fn)
> id2xml.parser.RunawayLoop: Runaway loop in get_first_page_top()
> 
> fyi
> 
> Lloyd Wood
> lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
> 
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